Dan Steinberg needs to get a life/clue

[Keino]

For your reading displeasure (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2007/10/blloyd_everybody_loafs.html)

I don't think I've seen a bigger apologist for a guy who has all of 1 catch and 9 yards.

[Spence]

I'm a fan of Dan Steinberg and think he runs a great blog. I don't necessarily agree with him about this since I think Brandon Lloyd has made trouble for himself in this town. However, if he is working hard in practice then it makes no sense to continue to punish him over that one horrible play. [And it was horrible.] Almost everyone is going to dog it on a play from time to time. [Anyone who has ever seen Gilbert Arenas play defense knows what I'm talking about and I LOOOOVE me some Gilbert Arenas]. What's more important is how the guy responds to discipline. If Lloyd is the same punk as always in practice then he deserves to sit. However, if he's working harder in practice and making an effort to contribute, then it is ridiculous to continue to punish him.

I don't know what the truth is and while my natural instinct is against Lloyd, I have to confess that I've lost a lot of faith in the ability of this coaching staff to manage players and personalities. I'm not sure what to think.

[dj_stouty]

I can count more than just "one loaf" in this guy's short Redskin career.

You build up enough of those with Joe, and you don't play. Plain and simple. And if Brandon can only point to one loaf, well I guess he is either in denial or in full excuse-mode.

:banhim:

[Keino]

"The average Joe Blow wants to see the demise of the American Athlete". I won't even bother reading between those lines, it is simply not the case. The average Joe Blow in Washington will love you forever if you step up and make plays. Just ask Donnie Warren.

[Keino]

Steinberg links to this, but I think it deserves its own link. I'm ready to cut this guy, I don't even care about what the cap implications are.

Channel 4 interview (http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=171163)

[CNYSkinFan]

The problem with LLoyd is he did not realize he was on probation and he did not have a loaf to give. The Redskins would have got rid of him and Arch last year if they could afford to, but they couldn't.

So they kept him. And then lloyd gets injured in training camp, falls on the depth chart and then loafed (before and after) a major play.

Sorry Lloyd is done, he is only on the roster because we can't afford to cut him. That wnd we need receuivers to catch 7 yard passes on 3rd and 8 and celebrate

[CNYSkinFan]

Steinberg links to this, but I think it deserves its own link. I'm ready to cut this guy, I don't even care about what the cap implications are.

Channel 4 interview (http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=171163)
i will give you this, the guy is articulate and charming....a moron on the football field, but I guess I can see whay some media pundits like to interview him.

[redskin_rich]

Everyone makes mistakes but that is not the same as not being focused or giving 100% effort all the time. Lloyd has shown repeatedly, both in games and practice that this indeed is a problem with him.

As Gibbs told Brandon, "You're just not gonna play very much after doing something like that." I gotta agree with the coach on this one.
The Redskins gave up the draft picks, the $$$ and gave Brandon the chance. Brandon blew it but the losers in the deal are the Redskins and the fans. Don't feel sorry for Lloyd, as he loafs around with his 8-figure bank account.

[oldskinfan]

It seems like with the big $$$ these days, player management mistakes are bigger than usual, and the Redskins stand out to me as someone with extreme buyers remorse when they make such mistakes, which then turns into very bizzarre handling of players and playing time.

For example:
- Lavar-gate
- handling of Archuleta (and possibly the Tom Friend article)
- B-Lloyd

I am sure this happens other teams as well, but the Skins seem to have more than their fair share. Ultimately, I think you have to hold the front office for bringing in people who just don't fit.

On the positive side, Randle El and London Fletcher have worke out well and C-Griff and Marcus Washington before that.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

What a mess.

[shane88]

Steinberg links to this, but I think it deserves its own link. I'm ready to cut this guy, I don't even care about what the cap implications are.

Channel 4 interview (http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=171163)


He doesn't care.....laughs about his mistakes......what a loser.......

[Keino]

He doesn't care.....laughs about his mistakes......what a loser.......


Right. It also bothered me that he said he didn't expect the ball to be thrown to him on the loaf play. Thats exactly why I was pissed after it happenned because he ran his route as if the ball wasn't going be thrown to him...

[Meatsnack]

Brandon Lloyd plays the media like a fiddle. I am sure that this same false modesty and openness is what got him overpaid and out of San Francisco where they were on to his tricks. I am sure Mike Nolan snickered up his sleeve getting 2 picks for this lazy bastidge.

Whatever else the future holds for Lloyd, he is clearly a natural at marketing (this is not a complement). If he can focus the same zeal and loose association with the truth/reality that he now focuses on himself, the money he is stealing from Dan Snyder right now will seem like small potatos.

[Syllable]

I will say it again untill some people understand. If we use Brandon Lloyd as an actual receiver and not a crash dummy to throw high passes too, or a 50/50 deep ball threat, he would do well in Washington. For some reason, whether its Gibbs, Saunders, or Campbell, one of them thinks that picking up High price Free agents means that you can only pass deep to them. Anyone want to disprove what I say? Go ahead. You will see that throughout Lloyd's career in Washington, we have yet to pass to him in intermediate yardage routes, Campbell can rarely throw the ball acurrately to him for some reason or another, and a Joe Gibbs system where the second Wideout will never be a huge part of the game plan. Before you start blaming Lloyd for being completely useless, look at how we use him. Hes a small wideout that we use for jumpballs. Go figure.

[akhhorus]

I will say it again untill some people understand. If we use Brandon Lloyd as an actual receiver and not a crash dummy to throw high passes too, or a 50/50 deep ball threat, he would do well in Washington. For some reason, whether its Gibbs, Saunders, or Campbell, one of them thinks that picking up High price Free agents means that you can only pass deep to them. Anyone want to disprove what I say? Go ahead. You will see that throughout Lloyd's career in Washington, we have yet to pass to him in intermediate yardage routes, Campbell can rarely throw the ball acurrately to him for some reason or another, and a Joe Gibbs system where the second Wideout will never be a huge part of the game plan. Before you start blaming Lloyd for being completely useless, look at how we use him. Hes a small wideout that we use for jumpballs. Go figure.

And maybe Lloyd should actually give a crap about practice or putting in the work and stop yelling at coaching/teammates during for the Skins to give him more of a shot, no? They essentially benched him for his blows up last season, then gave him a shot in TC, and Lloyd looked like he could give a crap. I don't think the Skins have an obligation to try and tailor a plan for him until he shows he'll care enough to take part it in.

[skinsfan36]

lloyd is one more give up play from being inactive all year (shakes head)

[Syllable]

And maybe Lloyd should actually give a crap about practice or putting in the work and stop yelling at coaching/teammates during for the Skins to give him more of a shot, no? They essentially benched him for his blows up last season, then gave him a shot in TC, and Lloyd looked like he could give a crap. I don't think the Skins have an obligation to try and tailor a plan for him until he shows he'll care enough to take part it in.

Btw, the Redskins don't have a good track record with good character in their WR core in the 10 years. But thats not my point, no matter who we are putting as second WR, we don't spread the ball out to him enough. Look at David Patten. He is having a a semi-productive season while being burried in the depth chart with the Saints, while we couldn't do anything with Patten when we had him here. Are you getting the pattern here? We seem to expect to use our second wideout for a rare short pass, or all or nothing deep passes. No consistent game plan for them.

[akhhorus]

Btw, the Redskins don't have a good track record with good character in their WR core in the 10 years. But thats not my point, no matter who we are putting as second WR, we don't spread the ball out to him enough. Look at David Patten. He is having a a semi-productive season while being burried in the depth chart with the Saints, while we couldn't do anything with Patten when we had him here. Are you getting the pattern here? We seem to expect to use our second wideout for a rare short pass, or all or nothing deep passes. No consistent game plan for them.

That doesn't excuse Lloyd's practice habits or attitude at all. So, since we don't throw him the ball, its okay for him to go off on the sidelines during a game and fail to put in any work?

[shally]

Btw, the Redskins don't have a good track record with good character in their WR core in the 10 years. But thats not my point, no matter who we are putting as second WR, we don't spread the ball out to him enough. Look at David Patten. He is having a a semi-productive season while being burried in the depth chart with the Saints, while we couldn't do anything with Patten when we had him here. Are you getting the pattern here? We seem to expect to use our second wideout for a rare short pass, or all or nothing deep passes. No consistent game plan for them.

i dont remember him having a memorable season last year . what were his stats? he is a decent character guy, he has just not been productive enough to justify what it would have cost to keep him.. and he is no youngster and is at an age where receivers dont usually remain that productive-- especially those whose career was built on speed and not size/strength

[flave1969]

Btw, the Redskins don't have a good track record with good character in their WR core in the 10 years. But thats not my point, no matter who we are putting as second WR, we don't spread the ball out to him enough. Look at David Patten. He is having a a semi-productive season while being burried in the depth chart with the Saints, while we couldn't do anything with Patten when we had him here. Are you getting the pattern here? We seem to expect to use our second wideout for a rare short pass, or all or nothing deep passes. No consistent game plan for them.


With all due respect is Randle El not our number two receiver and the man who actually is leading the team in Receptions. We have played six games and Randle El has surpassed Lloyds totals from last year. He is seeing plenty of the ball. He applies himself and is producing consistent results. He is seeing all kinds of passes come his way. Lloyd has produced nothing like Randle El who is showing what you need from a number two receiver.

[RedskinsDave]

Why in the world would anyone bother to try to defend that guy? Other than his choice of haircuts, it appears Dan is an idiot.

[JsMaViSd]

With all due respect is Randle El not our number two receiver and the man who actually is leading the team in Receptions. We have played six games and Randle El has surpassed Lloyds totals from last year. He is seeing plenty of the ball. He applies himself and is producing consistent results. He is seeing all kinds of passes come his way. Lloyd has produced nothing like Randle El who is showing what you need from a number two receiver.

yes but considering half of his catches were when Moss wasnt in the lineup...forcing ARE to be the number 1

[dj_stouty]

yes but considering half of his catches were when Moss wasnt in the lineup...forcing ARE to be the number 1

That isn't exactly true. Moss didn't play in ONE game this year; the one ARE got 7 catches. ARE has 23 on the season, so those 7 catches weren't even 1/3 of his season total, let alone 1/2.

Plus, ARE caught more balls than Moss vs. Mia and vs. AZ. He is simply getting the ball more often; or at least he is holding onto the ball more often.

[JsMaViSd]

That isn't exactly true. Moss didn't play in ONE game this year; the one ARE got 7 catches. ARE has 23 on the season, so those 7 catches weren't even 1/3 of his season total, let alone 1/2.

Plus, ARE caught more balls than Moss vs. Mia and vs. AZ. He is simply getting the ball more often; or at least he is holding onto the ball more often.

and part of the game vs Green Bay

so lets say 9/23 of his catches..meaning 14 catches as a number 2..with NO td's..

i dont see how this is such a big improvement over when Lloyd was number 2 last year when he had 23 catches and only started 12 games.

we could have a Randy Moss at number 2 and still not even him would put numbers on the board with this offensive scheme..

we have 6 GREAT receivers, but yet none of them have ANY td's this year? dont blame the receivers, blame the scheme

[Redskin4Life]

With all due respect is Randle El not our number two receiver and the man who actually is leading the team in Receptions. We have played six games and Randle El has surpassed Lloyds totals from last year. He is seeing plenty of the ball. He applies himself and is producing consistent results. He is seeing all kinds of passes come his way. Lloyd has produced nothing like Randle El who is showing what you need from a number two receiver.
Just to be fair, Moss' stats can be compared to Lloyd's from last year.... so it seems ARE is our #1 WR and Moss our 2.

Lloyd 2006 (through 7 games): 164 yrds, 14.9 yrds per catch, 0 TDs, 1 FL
Moss 2007 (through 7 games): 207 yrds, 14.8 yrds per catch, 0 TDs, 1 FL

ARE 2007 (through 7 games): 422 yrds, 18.3 yrds per catch, 0 TDs
Moss 2006 (through 7 games): 435 yrds, 15.5 yrds per catch, 3 TDs

I'm not a B-Lloyalist but I do want to see him succeed here.

[flave1969]

yes but considering half of his catches were when Moss wasnt in the lineup...forcing ARE to be the number 1

ARE is our number 2 receiver and has been in 5 of 6 games, 7 catches out of 23 is not half of his production. The fact is he is contributing consistently in every game. Did Lloyd step up in the second half of the game against Detroit when ARE started and missed the second half? No it was McCardell who had two big receptions.

In his two seasons here ARE has won that starting job through his hard work and Lloyd's lack of it. Randle El is on pace for a 61 catch 1100 yard season. Because he is our leading receiver it does not mean he is our Number One, we know that Moss is our Number One, he just has to play up to that billing.

[JsMaViSd]

Just to be fair, Moss' stats can be compared to Lloyd's from last year.... so it seems ARE is our #1 WR and Moss our 2.

Lloyd 2006 (through 7 games): 164 yrds, 14.9 yrds per catch, 0 TDs, 1 FL
Moss 2007 (through 7 games): 207 yrds, 14.8 yrds per catch, 0 TDs, 1 FL

ARE 2007 (through 7 games): 422 yrds, 18.3 yrds per catch, 0 TDs
Moss 2006 (through 7 games): 435 yrds, 15.5 yrds per catch, 3 TDs

I'm not a B-Lloyalist but I do want to see him succeed here.

very good point

And you also have to look at Mistakes..How many passes has anyone seen Lloyd dropped compared to what Moss did JUST IN THAT ONE GAME..

[akhhorus]

very good point

And you also have to look at Mistakes..How many passes has anyone seen Lloyd dropped compared to what Moss did JUST IN THAT ONE GAME..

What? So, since Moss had a terrible Green Bay game, Lloyd isn't that bad? Lloyd sucks. Moss is having a bad season, but at least put in the work and has a track record of success here.

[JsMaViSd]

ARE is our number 2 receiver and has been in 5 of 6 games, 7 catches out of 23 is not half of his production. The fact is he is contributing consistently in every game. Did Lloyd step up in the second half of the game against Detroit when ARE started and missed the second half? No it was McCardell who had two big receptions.

In his two seasons here ARE has won that starting job through his hard work and Lloyd's lack of it. Randle El is on pace for a 61 catch 1100 yard season. Because he is our leading receiver it does not mean he is our Number One, we know that Moss is our Number One, he just has to play up to that billing.

Vs Detroit, Lloyd was our 5th receiver...how could he get a chance to step it up..

Caldwell played, did he contribute? No..

Moss isnt contributing this year, so should we all set a fire to him too? even tho he has the same stats as Lloyd last year?

Id be frustrated as hell if i was Lloyd too, hes not getting playing time and hes getting thrown under the bus because the coaching of this team on the offensive side of the ball are blind for not seeing the talent we have at WR and at QB of this team.

[JsMaViSd]

What? So, since Moss had a terrible Green Bay game, Lloyd isn't that bad? Lloyd sucks. Moss is having a bad season, but at least put in the work and has a track record of success here.

okay, so pulling yourself out of a game shows great leadership and work ethic towards your team.. :whoknows:

[akhhorus]

Vs Detroit, Lloyd was our 5th receiver...how could he get a chance to step it up..

Caldwell played, did he contribute? No..

Moss isnt contributing this year, so should we all set a fire to him too? even tho he has the same stats as Lloyd last year?

Thats parsing. Lloyd went out for 200 yards in the final 8 games, you don't honestly think that Moss will do as poorly, do you?

Id be frustrated as hell if i was Lloyd too, hes not getting playing time and hes getting thrown under the bus because the coaching of this team on the offensive side of the ball are blind for not seeing the talent we have at WR and at QB of this team.

Thats such nonsense. So, its the evil coaching staff that just won't play lloyd even though he's a major talent. Its the evil coaching staff that forces Lloyd to take those pills which makes him loaf off during practice. Its the evil coaching staff which forces Lloyd to quit on plays even when he is in the lineup(Campbell's 2nd INT vs Miami was because Lloyd quit on the play 3/4s of the way through it, only to realize the ball was headed towards him).

okay, so pulling yourself out of a game shows great leadership and work ethic towards your team.. :whoknows:

As compared to Lloyd who's gone off of his position coach and teammates on the sidelines? Frankly, I don't believe for a second that he pulled himself out of the game in Green Bay. His body language said "benched by the coaches with a yelling".

[Keino]

Thats such nonsense. So, its the evil coaching staff that just won't play lloyd even though he's a major talent. Its the evil coaching staff that forces Lloyd to take those pills which makes him loaf off during practice. Its the evil coaching staff which forces Lloyd to quit on plays even when he is in the lineup(Campbell's 2nd INT vs Miami was because Lloyd quit on the play 3/4s of the way through it, only to realize the ball was headed towards him).




And this point is not debatable. Lloyd admits to being surprised the ball was even thrown to him and admits to loafing because he was embarassed that the Dback made a better play on the ball.

[JsMaViSd]

Thats parsing. Lloyd went out for 200 yards in the final 8 games, you don't honestly think that Moss will do as poorly, do you?



Thats such nonsense. So, its the evil coaching staff that just won't play lloyd even though he's a major talent. Its the evil coaching staff that forces Lloyd to take those pills which makes him loaf off during practice. Its the evil coaching staff which forces Lloyd to quit on plays even when he is in the lineup(Campbell's 2nd INT vs Miami was because Lloyd quit on the play 3/4s of the way through it, only to realize the ball was headed towards him).



As compared to Lloyd who's gone off of his position coach and teammates on the sidelines? Frankly, I don't believe for a second that he pulled himself out of the game in Green Bay. His body language said "benched by the coaches with a yelling".

Moss came out and ADMITTED he pulled himself out of the game. How can you point that towards any other angle?

[Moe]

yes but considering half of his catches were when Moss wasnt in the lineup...forcing ARE to be the number 1

And ARE's practice habits allowed him to step right in and be productive, which is the primary criticism levied at Lloyd.

[JsMaViSd]

And ARE's practice habits allowed him to step right in and be productive, which is the primary criticism levied at Lloyd.

Yes good point, and now we have one receiver this year being productive, and noone else is..not much of an improvement of last year

my point is this, we have 6 good receivers, and we dont spread the field with any of them..i myself would rather see them throw the ball to Thrash 20 times a game, because he has the most for sure hands out of any of em

im about a facial hair short of just saying drop the Gibbs II era and move on

[akhhorus]

Moss came out and ADMITTED he pulled himself out of the game. How can you point that towards any other angle?

Call it the lack of credibility coming out of Redskins Park. And thanks for not discussing the rest of my response.

[JsMaViSd]

Call it the lack of credibility coming out of Redskins Park. And thanks for not discussing the rest of my response.

why discuss? its obviously not worth it...

as ive tried to convince you all in all 100,000 negative threads on BLloyd, im done with this thread.

you all can sit here and point fingers at whomever you want, and hate whoever u want..but the real problem is not in the players..

[akhhorus]

why discuss? its obviously not worth it...

as ive tried to convince you all in all 100,000 negative threads on BLloyd, im done with this thread.

you all can sit here and point fingers at whomever you want, and hate whoever u want..but the real problem is not in the players..

Like I said: Its those evil coaches which forced Lloyd to rip into his teammates/coaches during a game, its those evil coaches who force Lloyd to not practice hard, its those evil coaches who inject Lloyd with that Indonesian Rhino powder which makes him quit on plays even when he's on the field. You're just an apologist for Lloyd. I really don't know what he's done to warrant an apologist, but maybe you can explain this further in the forums on Lloyd's website?

[JsMaViSd]

Like I said: Its those evil coaches which forced Lloyd to rip into his teammates/coaches during a game, its those evil coaches who force Lloyd to not practice hard, its those evil coaches who inject Lloyd with that Indonesian Rhino powder which makes him quit on plays even when he's on the field. You're just an apologist for Lloyd. I really don't know what he's done to warrant an apologist, but maybe you can explain this further in the forums on Lloyd's website?

will do thx

[akhhorus]

will do thx

So, if Lloyd's arrested for DUI, it will be because of Al Saunders was at the bar with him, forcing him to do shots despite Lloyd begging to stop because he had to drive those orphans home?

[Skins7ny]

*Gibbs, et al. want to win. They want Lloyd to succeed, because they are the ones that traded for him and paid him $10M in guaranteed money when they didn't have to. They put their reputations, checkbook, and most importantly, their offense on the line for BLloyd. To argue that they are sabotaging him, holding him back, and don't want him to succeed, is ludicrous. Did they tell BLloyd to give up his chance to fight for his starting job on the field in training camp because of some shin splints??

*Campbell wants to win, he wants to complete passes and he wants to avoid being sacked. To suggest that BLloyd is failing because Campbell will not want to throw to him is ludicrous. Maybe he does not truly trust Lloyd yet, but that is probably because he could not throw to him all summer (the shin splints again) and when he does, bad things happen. Trust with a QB has to be earned, and yelling "I'm open! I'm open!" is not how you go about it.

*Lloyd's incentive for playing the game is money and fame. He has the fame, and maintains it disproportionate to his production by courting the media, blogging on the Skins' website and being charming in his public appearances. He got the money ($10M, thanks to Dan and Joe) before he ever put on a Redskins uniform: the day the contract was signed with that guaranteed money, his incentive to get knocked around an NFL field disappeared. Next year, after he gets cut by Denver in training camp, he will go to wherever his home is, and live the rest of his life off his money. And we will have a new #3 receiver. Whoever it is, it will be someone more professional and more productive than Brandon Lloyd.

[akhhorus]

*Gibbs, et al. want to win. They want Lloyd to succeed, because they are the ones that traded for him and paid him $10M in guaranteed money when they didn't have to. They put their reputations, checkbook, and most importantly, their offense on the line for BLloyd. To argue that they are sabotaging him, holding him back, and don't want him to succeed, is ludicrous. Did they tell BLloyd to give up his chance to fight for his starting job on the field in training camp because of some shin splints??

*Campbell wants to win, he wants to complete passes and he wants to avoid being sacked. To suggest that BLloyd is failing because Campbell will not want to throw to him is ludicrous. Maybe he does not truly trust Lloyd yet, but that is probably because he could not throw to him all summer (the shin splints again) and when he does, bad things happen. Trust with a QB has to be earned, and yelling "I'm open! I'm open!" is not how you go about it.

*Lloyd's incentive for playing the game is money and fame. He has the fame, and maintains it disproportionate to his production by courting the media, blogging on the Skins' website and being charming in his public appearances. He got the money ($10M, thanks to Dan and Joe) before he ever put on a Redskins uniform: the day the contract was signed with that guaranteed money, his incentive to get knocked around an NFL field disappeared. Next year, after he gets cut by Denver in training camp, he will go to wherever his home is, and live the rest of his life off his money. And we will have a new #3 receiver. Whoever it is, it will be someone more professional and more productive than Brandon Lloyd.

Agree 100%(Although, I think it will be Miami who signed him, then cuts him).

[JsMaViSd]

So, if Lloyd's arrested for DUI, it will be because of Al Saunders was at the bar with him, forcing him to do shots despite Lloyd begging to stop because he had to drive those orphans home?

correct

[dj_stouty]

Anyone else having flashbacks to BigSef3?

[akhhorus]

Anyone else having flashbacks to BigSef3?

I think thats an insult to BigSef lmao.

[Hr fan]

I'm a fan of Dan Steinberg and think he runs a great blog. I don't necessarily agree with him about this since I think Brandon Lloyd has made trouble for himself in this town. However, if he is working hard in practice then it makes no sense to continue to punish him over that one horrible play. [And it was horrible.] Almost everyone is going to dog it on a play from time to time. [Anyone who has ever seen Gilbert Arenas play defense knows what I'm talking about and I LOOOOVE me some Gilbert Arenas]. What's more important is how the guy responds to discipline. If Lloyd is the same punk as always in practice then he deserves to sit. However, if he's working harder in practice and making an effort to contribute, then it is ridiculous to continue to punish him.

I don't know what the truth is and while my natural instinct is against Lloyd, I have to confess that I've lost a lot of faith in the ability of this coaching staff to manage players and personalities. I'm not sure what to think.

Taylor Jacobs worked hard. He also disappeared during games. B. Lloyd is a very expensive Jacobs. Lloyd has been consistent. When did he last show real desire on the game field? Arenas loafs rarely and is exceptionally productive overall. With Arenas loafing is the exception, with Lloyd it is the rule.

[Meatsnack]

If B Lloyd's interview can be believed, Gibbs sent him tot he oine for quitting on the interception play in the endzone. Why is this surprising to anyone? Gibbs values hard work and intelligence over talent in his players and has said so publicly many times. Brandon is lazy and has a football IQ in the negative integers. Gibbs puts in more hours and effort than any coach in the league. Why should his players think that it is OK with him to loaf when he walks the the walk himself?

If Lloyd wanted back in coaches good graces, it is a simple formula - effort. If he was banging on Gibbs office door every day, busting his butt like a rookie in practice and diving after balls, and most importantly, getting into the meeting rooms and participating at a high level to show his position coach that his head was in the game that Gibbs, Mr. Christian Redemption, would still sit him? Unlikely. Instead, it is easier to complain and whine at the media that he is being snigled out. No, he singled himslef out. He can live with the consequences or change them. So far, not much effort being displayed on his part other than spin control.

[native skin]

Steinberg links to this, but I think it deserves its own link. I'm ready to cut this guy, I don't even care about what the cap implications are.

Channel 4 interview (http://video.nbc4.com/player/?id=171163)

Interesting interview. I have to say that I admire Lloyd's ability to "move on". He just does not seem to get dragged down by anything. You have to respect that. However, due to his attitude, he's missing a very key component to be a significant contributor to this team. When the interviewer asked him [about the deep pass that hit his finger tips @ GB] whether he thought that catch would have changed his season, Lloyd replied: "No, haha, plays over, haha." The interviewer responded " You could been a hero." Lloyd: "I'm not interested in being a hero." Why does this matter?

Let me draw a comparison to today's article on Montgomery. Near the end of the article, Montgomery referred to a memory that mark the time when he began to change his approach to the game. 'Okay, scout team, training camp is over, the tempo is to going to come down some,'" Montgomery said. "Then the first play I came off a double team got drove back and put on my back like that, and when it happened I was like, 'I've got to improve.'" He was so embarrassed that he changed his approach. It made him hungry.

Montgomery has gotten better and could turn out to be a very good tackle. Why? Because he cares! It is a good thing to be able to move past difficult times but not to the point where you don't care anymore. Lloyd approaches the game like a Buddhist monk would. Buddhists believe that if they want something then it will literally fall in their laps if they deserve it. It will happen on it's own without much effort. Lloyd relies on his physical talent but has no heart. Montgomery has raw raw talent but has heart to back it up.

Sorry for talking about a player thats in another thread but I thought it was a good comparison to point whats wrong with Lloyd's approach to the game.

[Syllable]

i dont remember him having a memorable season last year . what were his stats? he is a decent character guy, he has just not been productive enough to justify what it would have cost to keep him.. and he is no youngster and is at an age where receivers dont usually remain that productive-- especially those whose career was built on speed and not size/strength
Lloyd or patten? I'm talking about Patten in New Orleans who has shown spots of good production while being buried in the depth chart.

That doesn't excuse Lloyd's practice habits or attitude at all. So, since we don't throw him the ball, its okay for him to go off on the sidelines during a game and fail to put in any work?

I don't condone his attitude whatsoever. What I am saying is, that we did not utilize Lloyd to his abilities and that is why he is a bust. When we first brought him here, he didn't have those character issues. 6 weeks later, hes pissed because of the attention hes not getting from his QB.

With all due respect is Randle El not our number two receiver and the man who actually is leading the team in Receptions. We have played six games and Randle El has surpassed Lloyds totals from last year. He is seeing plenty of the ball. He applies himself and is producing consistent results. He is seeing all kinds of passes come his way. Lloyd has produced nothing like Randle El who is showing what you need from a number two receiver.

We can't seem to spread the ball to our wideouts. If we throw to Randel el, Moss will have a bad game. Vice versa.

[firehawk157]

I don't condone his attitude whatsoever. What I am saying is, that we did not utilize Lloyd to his abilities and that is why he is a bust. When we first brought him here, he didn't have those character issues. 6 weeks later, hes pissed because of the attention hes not getting from his QB.

I agree, but what is his strengths? Supposedly, it's making the difficult catch way down the field. What has he done this season in that regards? 1 throw he gave up on the play, gave up an INT and than let his dude run back 35 yards. The second one, he made a valiant effort for the football, but still came up short. You don't keep throwing him the ball if it doesn't work.



We can't seem to spread the ball to our wideouts. If we throw to Randel el, Moss will have a bad game. Vice versa.

It's not very often that two receivers have huge games at the same time. On this team, or just about any team. Can you blame JC for not throwing it to Moss as much? He catches only a quarter of the balls thrown his way and one of those throws directly led to an INT. Moss has to step it up to get back into JC's good graces and expect constant targeting.

[JsMaViSd]

We can't seem to spread the ball to our wideouts. If we throw to Randel el, Moss will have a bad game. Vice versa.

exactly

[akhhorus]

I don't condone his attitude whatsoever. What I am saying is, that we did not utilize Lloyd to his abilities and that is why he is a bust. When we first brought him here, he didn't have those character issues. 6 weeks later, hes pissed because of the attention hes not getting from his QB.

1-Maybe when the Skins, in this offseason, talked to him about his attitude and didn't offer him the Arch out, Lloyd should have focused on his game and his work habit. How we utilized him doesn't change that he's a douche bag.
2-Wrong. He had this rep in San Fran.
3-He lost it last year even when they were throwing it to him. He's still a douche now and not even trying to show the coaches he's changed as a player(on and off the field) with moss out/struggling and ARE with some nagging injuries. That alone says it all.

We can't seem to spread the ball to our wideouts. If we throw to Randel el, Moss will have a bad game. Vice versa.

None of this matters when discussing Lloyd's attitude. His lack of a role in the offense didn't make him lazy. He was lazy before he got here.

[Syllable]

None of this matters when discussing Lloyd's attitude. His lack of a role in the offense didn't make him lazy. He was lazy before he got here.

Attitude and problems vanish when the player gets the ball.

[akhhorus]

Attitude and problems vanish when the player gets the ball.

Thats nonsense. He was a jerk his final year in San Fran even when he was getting the ball. And why should the coaches make him a major part of the offense when he won't work hard in practice or on the field?

[JsMaViSd]

Attitude and problems vanish when the player gets the ball.

exactly, again :)

the coaches are not putting any receiver as a MAJOR part of this offense..attitudes aside

Look at all the talent we have at WR on this team..Even Caldwell was in Patriots system and was there number one receiver here, obviously a good hands on receiver, has no part of the offense, same goes with McCardell, a proven vet, no major part..

look at Arizona, ther number 3 receiver, has more catches than our number 1 receiver lol

im sorry i dont see how any of you can say ANY receiver on this team is bad. NOONE has been given an opportunity to show what they have since Campbell has been in.

There are receivers that have been on this team that i can say are bad, but noone on our WR squad right now is BAD. Good Attitude or bad, obviously noone is getting a chance to shine.

Even Moss or ARE, two guys with "Good practices", still dont have impressive numbers, at ALL

[akhhorus]

exactly, again :)

the coaches are not putting any receiver as a MAJOR part of this offense..attitudes aside

Look at all the talent we have at WR on this team..Even Caldwell was in Patriots system and was there number one receiver here, obviously a good hands on receiver, has no part of the offense, same goes with McCardell, a proven vet, no major part..

look at Arizona, ther number 3 receiver, has more catches than our number 1 receiver lol

So, by your and Syllable's logic: Moss, ARE, Thrash, McCardell and Caldwell should all be loafing in practice and on the field. But they aren't. Sorry, Lloyd is still a douche(whether you like it or not).



im sorry i dont see how any of you can say ANY receiver on this team is bad. NOONE has been given an opportunity to show what they have since Campbell has been in.


Thats not true at all. Moss and ARE have been given plenty of opportunities to produce(and have). Lloyd was given this chance when Campbell came in, and blew it. Oh wait, that was Gibbs' fault, because in your world-apparently-nothing is Lloyd's fault. Are you related to him or something?

[Keino]

Attitude and problems vanish when the player gets the ball.

This is complete and utter HORSE PUCKY.

The attitude was demonstrated in the 1st game of the year on a Bomb intended to get said player the ball. He half assed his effort there after a year of half assing previously. Why should he get another chance to be a half asser?

[dj_stouty]

Attitude and problems vanish when the player gets the ball.

WRONG. Brandon Lloyd got the ball often at the University of Illinois and he was a problem in the locker room there as well.

[redskin_rich]

This is complete and utter HORSE PUCKY.

The attitude was demonstrated in the 1st game of the year on a Bomb intended to get said player the ball. He half assed his effort there after a year of half assing previously. Why should he get another chance to be a half asser?So he can blossom into a total arse?

[JsMaViSd]

So, by your and Syllable's logic: Moss, ARE, Thrash, McCardell and Caldwell should all be loafing in practice and on the field. But they aren't. Sorry, Lloyd is still a douche(whether you like it or not).




Thats not true at all. Moss and ARE have been given plenty of opportunities to produce(and have). Lloyd was given this chance when Campbell came in, and blew it. Oh wait, that was Gibbs' fault, because in your world-apparently-nothing is Lloyd's fault. Are you related to him or something?

i guess 23 catches as a leading receiver on the team is "Getting the chance"

lol jeez i can only imagine if Washington would open there offense up what you all would say..

[akhhorus]

i guess 23 catches as a leading receiver on the team is "Getting the chance"

I guess that shows how worthless Lloyd is.

lol jeez i can only imagine if Washington would open there offense up what you all would say..

"Thank God we got rid of Lloyd"?

[JsMaViSd]

I guess that shows how worthless Lloyd is.



"Thank God we got rid of Lloyd"?

lol i guess it takes our offense to be ranked 32nd in the league, for the blind to realize that the blame shouldnt be on the receivers...

[akhhorus]

lol i guess it takes our offense to be ranked 32nd in the league, for the blind to realize that the blame shouldnt be on the receivers...

I find it hilarious that someone who's blindly in love with a certain player and will apologize for him for anything is accusing anyone who disagrees with him of being blind.

And what does the offense have to do with Brandon Lloyd and his inability to give a crap about being a good player? Oh wait, time for you to claim you're leaving the thread or post something irrelevant.

[JsMaViSd]

I find it hilarious that someone who's blindly in love with a certain player and will apologize for him for anything is accusing anyone who disagrees with him of being blind.

And what does the offense have to do with Brandon Lloyd and his inability to give a crap about being a good player? Oh wait, time for you to claim you're leaving the thread or post something irrelevant.

lol my points have not been pointing out that Lloyd is some sort of allstar. What im pointing out is that people are accusing Lloyd of being bad, when every receiver this year and last year hasnt produced like they should because of the system and the playcalling...

so because of ONE messup on ONE play ON the field, Lloyd is bad, but Moss has had what? 6 drops this year, and several players on this team have dropped the ball, fumbled, and all of them you still get on your knees about and pray for them

[akhhorus]

lol my points have not been pointing out that Lloyd is some sort of allstar. What im pointing out is that people are accusing Lloyd of being bad, when every receiver this year and last year hasnt produced like they should because of the system and the playcalling...

And as I've asked you a few times: what does this have to do with Lloyd blowing off offseason work, not working hard in practice and taking plays off(when he does actually get in) and being a general arse to his coaches/teammates? Why exactly should Saunders/Gibbs play Lloyd more if he quits on plays when he does get in now?

[JsMaViSd]

And as I've asked you a few times: what does this have to do with Lloyd blowing off offseason work, not working hard in practice and taking plays off(when he does actually get in) and being a general arse to his coaches/teammates? Why exactly should Saunders/Gibbs play Lloyd more if he quits on plays when he does get in now?

playing hard or not, NOONE is producing..

are you illiterate seriously....

whether its Moss playing the whole game or Lloyd playing 3 minutes, noone is producing, not because there bad, or they have bad practice manner, or because there offseason wasnt strong enough, or because there 8 time pro bowl players. noone is producing in this system..

open your eyes and read

look at Moss's interviews in the lockerroom this year, he doesnt even have ANY enthusiasm of being on this team, because he knows whats going on with the system.

[akhhorus]

playing hard or not, NOONE is producing..

are you illiterate seriously....

What does production have to do with Lloyd's work habits? Or are you just so blind to apologize for Lloyd that you're going to make ridiculous comments constantly?

whether its Moss playing the whole game or Lloyd playing 3 minutes, noone is producing, not because there bad, or they have bad practice manner, or because there offseason wasnt strong enough, or because there 8 time pro bowl players. noone is producing in this system..

open your eyes and read

look at Moss's interviews in the lockerroom this year, he doesnt even have ANY enthusiasm of being on this team, because he knows whats going on with the system.

Huh? What does this have to do with Lloyd quitting on and off the field? And Lloyd was quitting on the team in San Fran(even when he was producing) and last year when Campbell had them as a top 15 offense in the NFL.

Time for you to make another non-sequitur comment.

[JsMaViSd]

What does production have to do with Lloyd's work habits? Or are you just so blind to apologize for Lloyd that you're going to make ridiculous comments constantly?



Huh? What does this have to do with Lloyd quitting on and off the field? And Lloyd was quitting on the team in San Fran(even when he was producing) and last year when Campbell had them as a top 15 offense in the NFL.

Time for you to make another non-sequitur comment.

lol jesus your blind as a bat..

there non-sequitur because you dont know how to read, which is obvious.

[akhhorus]

lol jesus your blind as a bat..

there non-sequitur because you dont know how to read, which is obvious.

More nonsense from you to avoid answering the question. I really hope you go and root for whatever Arena League team Lloyd is playing with next year.

[firehawk157]

you two remind me of two people arguing with fence posts. One is arguing about production, the other about work ethic and you think the fence posts are arguing back because you are overhearing the other person's argument.

Here's it settled (ie the correct answer)...

Brandon Lloyd can be much more productive if we open the offense and play to his strengths. HOWEVER, the chances he has gotten on the downfield plays, he's shown little work ethic. That just so happens to coincide with the fact that he's shown little to no work ethic in any other phase of the game (ie, doesn't work out with JC when JC was throwing passes to other receivers, doesn't show up to OTAs, loafs during practice). He is also a locker room cancer, he calls out coaches, is generally unlikable and has a smug sense of entitlement. All these things point to a horrible team mate. So, his playing time has absolutely nothing to do with productivity (or lack thereof) and everything to do with his attitude and work ethic. But yes, he can be productive (nobody can argue that).

[Keino]

More nonsense from you to avoid answering the question. I really hope you go and root for whatever Arena League team Lloyd is playing with next year.

If I were Brandon Lloyd and I was reading this thread, I probably would've posted this to JsMaViSd:

1661

I hope Brandon wear big boxers. He apparently needs them....

[Syllable]

So, by your and Syllable's logic: Moss, ARE, Thrash, McCardell and Caldwell should all be loafing in practice and on the field. But they aren't. Sorry, Lloyd is still a douche(whether you like it or not).




Thats not true at all. Moss and ARE have been given plenty of opportunities to produce(and have). Lloyd was given this chance when Campbell came in, and blew it. Oh wait, that was Gibbs' fault, because in your world-apparently-nothing is Lloyd's fault. Are you related to him or something?
Putting words in my mouth again. I never said that what Lloyd is doing right now is right. He is a lost cause. He knows Washington doesn't want to include him in their gameplan. He knows hes not going to get over 30 catches in the year. He is just waiting for his paycheck and loafing in practice because he doesnt care. I liked Brandon Lloyd's upside when he first came over. Right now, I want him off the team. He is a waste of Cap space and a bad influence in the locker room. What my point is that, we will continue to have under performers at the number 2 position until we do something to change it.
This is complete and utter HORSE PUCKY.

The attitude was demonstrated in the 1st game of the year on a Bomb intended to get said player the ball. He half assed his effort there after a year of half assing previously. Why should he get another chance to be a half asser?
Take Randy moss. Brady gives him manageable catches, nice touch passes that he can catch, and getting him involved early and often. T.O gets wonder boy Romo and now he stops blowing up in the locker room and calling out the coaches. Keino I understand that we need Lloyd out of Washington, but involving players like these will get them to shut up and play. Again, right now Lloyd is a lost cause, but we Misused him and never attempted to use him often and just tried to use to go for the big play.
i guess 23 catches as a leading receiver on the team is "Getting the chance"

lol jeez i can only imagine if Washington would open there offense up what you all would say..
For one, Lloyd would still be blowing up if he wasn't getting the ball. But if he was, we wouldn't hear a peep out of him.

[akhhorus]

Putting words in my mouth again. I never said that what Lloyd is doing right now is right. He is a lost cause. He knows Washington doesn't want to include him in their gameplan. He knows hes not going to get over 30 catches in the year. He is just waiting for his paycheck and loafing in practice because he doesnt care. I liked Brandon Lloyd's upside when he first came over. Right now, I want him off the team. He is a waste of Cap space and a bad influence in the locker room. What my point is that, we will continue to have under performers at the number 2 position until we do something to change it.

But thats the thing: if Lloyd has any interest in being a football player, you'd think that he could put 2 and 2 together and at least pretend that he gives a crap during the week and during the game. The fact that he looks like he's more than happy to just collect his check and not work hard means that he is, as you say, a lost cause.

Take Randy moss. Brady gives him manageable catches, nice touch passes that he can catch, and getting him involved early and often. T.O gets wonder boy Romo and now he stops blowing up in the locker room and calling out the coaches. Keino I understand that we need Lloyd out of Washington, but involving players like these will get them to shut up and play. Again, right now Lloyd is a lost cause, but we Misused him and never attempted to use him often and just tried to use to go for the big play.

Appeasement makes the monster grow. Moss is only really interested in playing hard when his team is good, TO is all about himself. TO is bitching now about Romo(without using his name directly) and not getting more passes thrown his way.

[Syllable]

But thats the thing: if Lloyd has any interest in being a football player, you'd think that he could put 2 and 2 together and at least pretend that he gives a crap during the week and during the game. The fact that he looks like he's more than happy to just collect his check and not work hard means that he is, as you say, a lost cause.

He is garbage, he can't grasp the fact that he isn't going to be a star here. So instead, he implodes. He has nothing to do with this team anyone, he doesn't fit, and he should just go away.


Appeasement makes the monster grow. Moss is only really interested in playing hard when his team is good, TO is all about himself. TO is bitching now about Romo(without using his name directly) and not getting more passes thrown his way.
I would love to see Moss backfire in the Pats face, but I just can't see that happening.

[Battle Cat]

I have wanted Lloyd to suceed here in Washington but he has most likely blown his chance at that. He will be gone after next year and probably go on to have a decent career. There are not to many passes for a number 2 much less a number 3, or 4 receiver on a team that shuts it down whenever they get a 10 point lead. As much as we complain about Lloyd last year S. Moss will have similar numbers if the offense still plays the same style. The coaches are doing what they feel they have to do with Lloyd and they are doing what they think is best. In this offense you could have Jerry Rice Randy Moss and Chris Carter if after you hit a few big plays you decide to run 1st down, run second down, reverse or screen pass to running back on third down no receiver is going to have big numbers except for possibly the #1. The offense stank last year and stinks this year is it the wide receivers fault maybe but this offense scores over 28 points maybe once a year.

[Meatsnack]

I have wanted Lloyd to suceed here in Washington but he has most likely blown his chance at that. He will be gone after next year and probably go on to have a decent career. There are not to many passes for a number 2 much less a number 3, or 4 receiver on a team that shuts it down whenever they get a 10 point lead. As much as we complain about Lloyd last year S. Moss will have similar numbers if the offense still plays the same style. The coaches are doing what they feel they have to do with Lloyd and they are doing what they think is best. In this offense you could have Jerry Rice Randy Moss and Chris Carter if after you hit a few big plays you decide to run 1st down, run second down, reverse or screen pass to running back on third down no receiver is going to have big numbers except for possibly the #1. The offense stank last year and stinks this year is it the wide receivers fault maybe but this offense scores over 28 points maybe once a year.Wow. This very offense with Monk, Sanders, and Clark seemed to do a little more than that even with Riggins toting the rock. Maybe the lack of production from the wideouts means that there isn't production to be had from this group. Moss hasn't been the same guy we saw in '05 since that season ended. Between the drops and multiple leg injuries he is a shell of his former self. Lloyd is invisible and Thrash is limited. That leaves McCardell -who doesn't start - and ARE - also injured and slowed. And to be clear, ARE is not fast when healthy. He is quick as a hiccup but never was fast. If has lost a step then he may not be able to create separation until fully healthy again, probably in training camp next year. I suspect if we had R. Moss and Rice/Carter in their primes we would be a little more focused on the deep ball and the passing game in general. Gibbs doesn't spend 100 hours in the submarine between Monday and Friday without knowing what his players can do within a gameplan.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

There are roughly 50 other players on the Redskins roster who are producing more than LLoyd. Why aren't we talking about them more and about LLoyd (who is a total lost cause and even admitted it himself) less? Much much MUCH less?