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View Full Version : Shula: Pats Need an Asterisk


WarEagle
11-07-2007, 01:53 PM
Don Shula says spygate has diminished the Patriots and all of their achievements. The Pats and the Boston media are pretty ticked off now.

http://wbztv.com/topstories/local_story_311072709.html

akhhorus
11-07-2007, 02:19 PM
This is nonsense on Shula's part. Even if you want to assume that the Pats were doing this up until they were caught during the Jets' game to start this season, it wouldn't taint this season since the NFL confiscated all the tapes they had early in Week 1.

And Shula's Dolphins were fined a first round pick for luring Shula away from the Colts in the 60s, so I guess all their accomplishments are tainted also?

redskin_rich
11-07-2007, 02:22 PM
No Champagne for the '72 Dolphins this year, just sour grapes.

smave
11-07-2007, 02:27 PM
Shula is just pissed because he just wants his record to never be broken

how selfish

SkinsfaninNJ
11-07-2007, 02:27 PM
No Champagne for the '72 Dolphins this year, just sour grapes.

I agree. The whole thing is ridiculous.

But it is getting real easy to dislike the Patriots.

Santheb
11-07-2007, 02:56 PM
If the Pats go 16-0 and he wants an asterik, I want an asterik next to the '72 Dolphins until they play 16 games. Thats right. I want all the members of the '72 Dolphins to put pads on and play two more games.

And as an added bonus, I think at home games, the Pats should play The Imperial March from Star Wars as their entrance music type thing, when they come out of the tunnel from the locker room.

HAWGZHEAD
11-07-2007, 03:48 PM
Another reeason I hope the dolphins go 0-16 this year.

SkinsfaninNJ
11-07-2007, 03:48 PM
If the Pats go 16-0 and he wants an asterik, I want an asterik next to the '72 Dolphins until they play 16 games. Thats right. I want all the members of the '72 Dolphins to put pads on and play two more games.

And as an added bonus, I think at home games, the Pats should play The Imperial March from Star Wars as their entrance music type thing, when they come out of the tunnel from the locker room.

That would be cool to see.

smave
11-07-2007, 04:19 PM
Another reeason I hope the dolphins go 0-16 this year.

lmao

SpicyMcHaggis
11-07-2007, 04:27 PM
Shula? Isn't he that guy that sticks his hand in the mailbox in Ace Ventura? Why is he talking about football?

new girl on the bloc
11-07-2007, 05:16 PM
Actually I agree with Shula. Its just a shame no one else said it. The current Pats season is tainted, as is their past accomplishments. The idea that they only cheated for a while in the Jets game I think is a false argument. And the idea that the rest of the games they have won by a huge margin is irrelevant. If you get caught plagirizing a page in a term paper, you get an F for that paper. It doesn't matter if the rest of the paper is great. It also doesn't matter if every other paper you write is an A+. (It only makes it appear stupider that you cheated.) The Pats knew the rules. They knowingly violated them. They were caught. And they shouldn't have won the game against the Jets. They should have had to forfeit. The only reason they weren't required to forfeit is because there is too much money riding on the NFL brand and the NFL season.

akhhorus
11-07-2007, 05:32 PM
Actually I agree with Shula. Its just a shame no one else said it. The current Pats season is tainted, as is their past accomplishments. The idea that they only cheated for a while in the Jets game I think is a false argument. And the idea that the rest of the games they have won by a huge margin is irrelevant. If you get caught plagirizing a page in a term paper, you get an F for that paper. It doesn't matter if the rest of the paper is great. It also doesn't matter if every other paper you write is an A+. (It only makes it appear stupider that you cheated.) The Pats knew the rules. They knowingly violated them. They were caught. And they shouldn't have won the game against the Jets. They should have had to forfeit. The only reason they weren't required to forfeit is because there is too much money riding on the NFL brand and the NFL season.

Umm...why? If you can prove that their past accomplishments were boosted by cheating, then they're tainted, but since that Jets' game, there's no way that they're cheating now(especially with NFL security watching them like a hawk now), so this season can't be considered tainted.

And again: The Phins' cheated to get Shula, so why aren't their accomplishments tainted also? Or the 88-92 49ers(salary cap violations), the 94-99 Broncos(salary cap violations), etc etc

SkinsfaninNJ
11-07-2007, 05:35 PM
Actually I agree with Shula. Its just a shame no one else said it. The current Pats season is tainted, as is their past accomplishments. The idea that they only cheated for a while in the Jets game I think is a false argument. And the idea that the rest of the games they have won by a huge margin is irrelevant. If you get caught plagirizing a page in a term paper, you get an F for that paper. It doesn't matter if the rest of the paper is great. It also doesn't matter if every other paper you write is an A+. (It only makes it appear stupider that you cheated.) The Pats knew the rules. They knowingly violated them. They were caught. And they shouldn't have won the game against the Jets. They should have had to forfeit. The only reason they weren't required to forfeit is because there is too much money riding on the NFL brand and the NFL season.

Welcome to HR. Way to come with strong opinions in one of your first posts.
I don't necessarily agree, mostly because I don't equate what the Pats did with plagiarism.

give_portis_the_rock
11-07-2007, 05:40 PM
Whether or not the Pats' SB titles are because of cheating aside -- you really can't even MAKE UP villians like Belichick and Brady. They are so easy to hate, it's amazing. Personally, I'm pulling for them to go undefeated in the regular season and lose a playoff game (ideally in the SB against the Skins but we all know that aint happening lol).

new girl on the bloc
11-07-2007, 05:56 PM
Thanks for your kind welcome SkinsFaninNJ. I visit the site often, but rarely post. I agree with you FunBunch. Billicheck's arrogant response to the SpyGate scandal makes it even less palatable.

new girl on the bloc
11-07-2007, 06:13 PM
Umm...why? If you can prove that their past accomplishments were boosted by cheating, then they're tainted, but since that Jets' game, there's no way that they're cheating now(especially with NFL security watching them like a hawk now), so this season can't be considered tainted.

And again: The Phins' cheated to get Shula, so why aren't their accomplishments tainted also? Or the 88-92 49ers(salary cap violations), the 94-99 Broncos(salary cap violations), etc etc

Game time violations to me seem different than the ones you sited. This season: I just think they should have had to forfeit the Jets game -- so no perfect season. Past seasons: Unfortunately for them getting caught this season makes their past accomplishments suspect. Their margin of victory in the past games/Super Bowls was at times very small. And in the NFL any slight advantage is huge. (By way of metaphor: Vegas is sustained by a very slight advantage.) I also think it is no coincidence that Brady has never really been hurt -- again huge advantage.

akhhorus
11-07-2007, 06:24 PM
Game time violations to me seem different than the ones you sited.

Actually I think what the Broncos and 49ers did were worse. They were paying players under the table so that they would take lesser contracts to save cap room. Thats circumventing the competitive balance more than stealing signs. Also, Shanahan said a few years ago that him and his staff try to steal defensive signs every week.

This season: I just think they should have had to forfeit the Jets game -- so no perfect season.

I can see that argument, but the camera was taken away very early in the game, a forfeit doesn't make sense to me(maybe if they were taken away from the Pats after the game). I would like to point out also if the Pats stole the signs without a camera, it wouldn't be cheating(which still doesn't make sense to me).

Past seasons: Unfortunately for them getting caught this season makes their past accomplishments suspect. Their margin of victory in the past games/Super Bowls was at times very small. And in the NFL any slight advantage is huge. (By way of metaphor: Vegas is sustained by a very slight advantage.)

Lets see some proof that they were cheating in the past(and the accusations from bitter players like Freddie Mitchell, etc aren't enough).

I also think it is no coincidence that Brady has never really been hurt -- again huge advantage.

So, the Pats have been cheating on that?

And Welcome to HR.

Syllable
11-07-2007, 06:29 PM
So, the Pats have been cheating on that?


You are forgetting Brady Bot, when times get tough: http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/cheatriots.htm

new girl on the bloc
11-07-2007, 06:32 PM
Thanks for your welcome Akkhorus! All I meant by the Brady reference was that if you know the defense's signals, it's a lot easier to keep your quarterback upright.

redskin_rich
11-07-2007, 06:50 PM
The NFL should have just let every other team in the league but the Pats, videotape the signals to prove that the Patriots could still beat them, to put an end to this.
No, I don't mean that but I'm just saying.

It's football, you still have to beat the team lining up against you, on the field and thats what the Pats do, week in, week out. They are proving right now that what they were doing was insignificant. Furthermore, if teams knew they were doing it (and they did), they could simply use one code word to change up everything at any given time. This was more about Mangini finding a way to taint his old team, than anything else. Mangini better make a name for himself on his own, because he has annihilated any bridges he had.

akhhorus
11-07-2007, 06:53 PM
Thanks for your welcome Akkhorus! All I meant by the Brady reference was that if you know the defense's signals, it's a lot easier to keep your quarterback upright.

To some extent, yes. But the Oline still has to make plays. And they seem to be doing it rather well on that without the signals this year lol

Meatsnack
11-07-2007, 07:12 PM
I agree with Shula.

And, what they are doing this season post-Jets is just not cheating using their old method. Now they use micro-cams inside the opposing coach's headsets and bluetooth the lip movements to screens inside Belicheater's hoodie. All of his training with the Stasi is paying off. And you thought it was coincidence that our headsets went in and out. Radio interference!

In all seriousness, though, it does call into question all of their past Super Bowl's and playoff runs. I am still pissed about Tuck-Gate and I hate Oakland with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns. The reasons that their previous playoff games/Super Bowls deserve an asterisk are 1) They were mostly small margins of victory in games where even a small advantage could turn the tide and 2) since Goodell destroyed all the evidence of their cheating so that no one could ever know the scale of the deed, you must assume the worst.

It's clear with the lack of mea culpa coming from Belichik that he just doesn't understand that cheating is wrong. To him it is just illegal and we all speed, right?

rskinsfan10
11-07-2007, 10:27 PM
Actually I agree with Shula. Its just a shame no one else said it. The current Pats season is tainted, as is their past accomplishments. The idea that they only cheated for a while in the Jets game I think is a false argument. And the idea that the rest of the games they have won by a huge margin is irrelevant. If you get caught plagirizing a page in a term paper, you get an F for that paper. It doesn't matter if the rest of the paper is great. It also doesn't matter if every other paper you write is an A+. (It only makes it appear stupider that you cheated.) The Pats knew the rules. They knowingly violated them. They were caught. And they shouldn't have won the game against the Jets. They should have had to forfeit. The only reason they weren't required to forfeit is because there is too much money riding on the NFL brand and the NFL season.Welcome to hR. I will add that I agree with you.

hail2skins
11-07-2007, 10:52 PM
Also, Shanahan said a few years ago that him and his staff try to steal defensive signs every week.
Yes, but not with using video equipment. That's what caused the problem.

akhhorus
11-07-2007, 11:00 PM
Yes, but not with using video equipment. That's what caused the problem.

Absolutely. But at the end of the day: what's the difference? You're still getting a competitive edge. Shanny was also violating the cap rules by some shenanigans with Terrell Davis and Elway's contracts during their SB run.

JoeJacksonTaylor28
11-07-2007, 11:11 PM
Absolutely. But at the end of the day: what's the difference? You're still getting a competitive edge. Shanny was also violating the cap rules by some shenanigans with Terrell Davis and Elway's contracts during their SB run.
Well, so let's put an asterisk to all SB Champions... except for 1982, 1987 and 1991. :)

While I agree that some other kind and more severe punishment should had been appropriate (come on, whether he got a competitive edge or not, they cheated), Shula's comments are ridiculous and he is just acting like the little child whose toy is no longer the best among the ones of his friends.

Biggie
11-07-2007, 11:46 PM
Whether or not the Pats' SB titles are because of cheating aside -- you really can't even MAKE UP villians like Belichick and Brady. They are so easy to hate, it's amazing. Personally, I'm pulling for them to go undefeated in the regular season and lose a playoff game (ideally in the SB against the Skins but we all know that aint happening lol).

16-0 and - what? Lost in the second round to the BROWNS?!?!?!?!?! :imshock:

'Twould be classic.

WarEagle
11-08-2007, 12:59 AM
I'm surprised Shula decided to wade into this. I guess I shouldn't be, considering his nasty statements after Alabama fired his son last year.

give_portis_the_rock
11-08-2007, 01:29 AM
16-0 and - what? Lost in the second round to the BROWNS?!?!?!?!?!

'Twould be classic.

Yeah man that would be great, but I think we'll have to settle for Pittsburgh or Indy pulling it off :devil2:

I just hope they don't decide to lose to the Giants or Eagles in the regular season :devil2:

SkinsfaninNJ
11-08-2007, 08:43 AM
16-0 and - what? Lost in the second round to the BROWNS?!?!?!?!?! :imshock:

'Twould be classic.

By the way, if they go 16-0 and then fail to win it all, then none of it means anything to mean. You have to win teh SB to be anywhere in the discussion of being one of the best ever.

Hr fan
11-08-2007, 12:43 PM
Just as the average American expects a politician to be a saint in order to be elected president, we expect everyone to play by the rules of sportmanship where winning is the only thing. Such expectations are unrealistic, and reacting with moral outrage when the obvious is discovered is disingenuous. If people weren't mad at BB for running up the score the Pats would still have both 1st round draft choices.

Keino
11-08-2007, 12:46 PM
I say we give Shula what he wants, as long as we incorporate the Asterisk on every Shula's Steak House.

WarEagle
11-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Shula was on Mike & Mike In the Morning today revising his remarks. "Belichick is an excellent coach...I knew his dad...blah blah..." Hey coach, I think the damage is done there, sport.

SpicyMcHaggis
11-09-2007, 02:59 AM
If the Pats go 16-0 and win it all, it's the Dophins that should get an asterisk for playing 2 games less than all the teams that have tried lately.

chrisbcbu
11-09-2007, 06:08 AM
If the Pats go 16-0 and win it all, it's the Dophins that should get an asterisk for playing 2 games less than all the teams that have tried lately.

On my way to work they said the Dolphins should have an asterik since the teams they played that year had an overrall winning percentage of about .378.

And they played only 2 games against teams with winning records.