No Huddle Offense?

[Skaggsrules]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=304958

Jason Campbell is very smart, do you think we should employ more "No Huddle" offense into the gameplan....Put the play calling in Jason's hands.

[skins74]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=304958

Jason Campbell is very smart, do you think we should employ more "No Huddle" offense into the gameplan....Put the play calling in Jason's hands.

YES

[redskin_rich]

Without reading the link you provided, the answer is a resounding YES!

Jason looked much more comfortable running this last week and especially out of the shotgun. Furthermore, it takes away our predictability and forces the defense to work out of a serious disadvantage, not being able to substitute and not being able to play to our normal tendencies.

This is a no-brainer, really. On the road and especially after how well Jason ran this last week, this is how we can have an offense that dictates t the defense and neutralizes the crowd noise.

[techskinsfan]

this could be very valuable on sunday...he ran it well last week

[joethefan]

I say yessss, do what works for him.

[skinsfan36]

yes more throwing too we need to score more points until st comes back

[Biggie]

Aye!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

the one thing that i was happy to see last week, lol. i liked how the offense moved while in the no huddle O. JC looked good while in command of the offense and was happy to see the offensive coaches have more faith in him.

[Red Bear]

theres a decent article in todays post that talks about the no huddle

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/14/AR2007111402248.html

[28thegreat]

This gets an unqualified YES from me. Jason looked extremely poised and in control during the no huddle.

[Moe]

To this point it's hard to argue with his play while in no-huddle and reports of him making in game calls due to communications problems (most notably the winning td call to Cooley last year against Carolina) should further support letting him try this out.
If nothing else, it should eliminate some of the delays and confusion in getting plays/formation out to him to time. Who knows, maybe as a result they'll even have a timeout or two to use when they really need it.

[Hr fan]

I don't care if it's the no huddle, or if plays come in from the sideline. JC needs latitude to recognize the D and take what's there. The coaches have proven they can't do it from the press box/sideline, JC at least offers hope that he can.

[esmith1790]

The cowboys confused Manning in the Giants game into a few delay of game penalties by moving our defense around. Hopefully the boys can confuse Campbell as well.

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/archives/2007/11/closer_look_at_the_calling_all_pass_rush.html#more


In this week's Tale of the Tape, Albert "Einstein" Breer mentioned the passing-situation package that puts DeMarcus Ware, Greg Ellis and Anthony Spencer all on the field together.

This is something the Cowboys have toyed with since Ellis' return, but it was a major part of the game plan for the first time against the Giants.

The Cowboys' three best pass rushers are joined up front by NT Jay Ratliff and DE Jason Hatcher. LB Kevin Burnett and the Cowboys' regular nickel secondary (three CBs and two starting safeties) are the rest of the guys on the field.

The goal is to get as many mismatches up front as possible. The Cowboys were able to confuse the Giants on several occasions by moving the primo pass rushers around, occasionally shifting just before the snap. Ratliff's ability to drop back in coverage -- he played safety and linebacker in high school -- aids the Cowboys' ability to be creative with their rushes out of this personnel package.

Follow the jump for a breakdown of the dozen times the Cowboys' three edge rushers were on the field together.

For each play, I'll list the situation, where the three pass rushers lined up, who blocked them and what happened on the play.

Situation: Third-and-6 from the Cowboys 44, Giants' first possession
Ware: Lined up on RG's outside shoulder.
Ellis: Lined up at LOLB.
Spencer: Lined up over center, standing up.
What happened: Giants called timeout.

Situation: Third-and-6 from the Cowboys 44, Giants' first possession
Ware: Lined up at ROLB, popping up from 3-point stance as play clock ticked down.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE.
Spencer: Lined up at LOLB, shifting from inside.
What happened: Spencer jumped offsides.

Situation: Third-and-8 at 50, Giants' last possession of first quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, doubled by LT and RB.
What happened: Ken Hamlin intercepted the pass after Ellis bull-rushed the RG and hit Eli Manning's wrist as he threw. Cowboys came with four-man rush, with Ratliff dropping to cover short middle zone.

Situation: Third-and-20 at Giants 32, right before first half two-minute warning.
Ware: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT with chip from RB.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE over RG, doubled by RG and RT with RG trying to peel back to help on Spencer.
Spencer: Lined up at LOLB, shifting late after standing behind Ellis, blocked by TE.
What happened: Spencer whipped Jeremy Shockey and got to Manning before the RG could help. Sack for loss of 12 yards. Cowboys came with four-man rush, with Ratliff floating out in the flat.

Situation: Third-and-8 at Giants 49, Giants' first possession of third quarter.
Ware: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by RB.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, splitting out wide, blocked by RT.
Spencer: Lined up at RDE, standing up over TE, blocked by C after stunting inside.
What happened: Ware whipped Brandon Jacobs to force Manning to get rid of the ball before he wanted. Shockey gained 6 yards on reception, forcing a punt. Ellis got good bullrush on RT. Cowboys came with five-man rush.

Situation: Third-and-5 from Cowboys 46, last drive of third quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE.
Spencer: Lined up at RILB.
What happened: Delay of game.

Situation: Third-and-10 from Giants 49, last drive of third quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by LT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with help from C.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by TE with late help from LT.
What happened: Ware almost got to Manning, but Manning hit Amani Toomer on a slant for a 23-yard gain. Cowboys came with four-man rush, with Ratliff floating out into flat.

Situation: Third-and-8 from Giants 25, midway through fourth quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: Four-man rush (Ratliff dropping to cover short middle) didn't get pressure on Manning, who completed a 10-yard pass to Shockey.

Situation: First-and-10 from Giants 35, next play
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT with chip from RB.
What happened: Giants went no-huddle, and Cowboys came with same rush. Manning hit TE Kevin Boss on a corner route for an 18-yard gain.

Situation: First-and-10 from Giants 35, next play
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: No-huddle again, and Manning hit Jacobs over middle for 10-yard gain.

Situation: First-and-10 from Cowboys 37, next play.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: Draw to Jacobs for 6 yards.

Situation: Second-and-4 from Cowboys 31, next play.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at RILB, dropped into coverage.
What happened: Burnett came free on blitz between C and RG, hitting Manning and forcing an incomplete pass.

[Redskin4Life]

Situation: First-and-10 from Giants 35, next play
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT with chip from RB.
What happened: Giants went no-huddle, and Cowboys came with same rush. Manning hit TE Kevin Boss on a corner route for an 18-yard gain.

Situation: First-and-10 from Giants 35, next play
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: No-huddle again, and Manning hit Jacobs over middle for 10-yard gain.


These two plays kind of screw up your theory.... no-huddle and Manning gets two first downs.

[esmith1790]

These two plays kind of screw up your theory.... no-huddle and Manning gets two first downs.


Sure it can be done, but the theory can still be a viable one. All it takes is a INT or sack to waste of time out to stall a drive.

[Keino]

The cowboys confused Manning in the Giants game into a few delay of game penalties by moving our defense around. Hopefully the boys can confuse Campbell as well.

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/archives/2007/11/closer_look_at_the_calling_all_pass_rush.html#more


In this week's Tale of the Tape, Albert "Einstein" Breer mentioned the passing-situation package that puts DeMarcus Ware, Greg Ellis and Anthony Spencer all on the field together.

This is something the Cowboys have toyed with since Ellis' return, but it was a major part of the game plan for the first time against the Giants.

The Cowboys' three best pass rushers are joined up front by NT Jay Ratliff and DE Jason Hatcher. LB Kevin Burnett and the Cowboys' regular nickel secondary (three CBs and two starting safeties) are the rest of the guys on the field.

The goal is to get as many mismatches up front as possible. The Cowboys were able to confuse the Giants on several occasions by moving the primo pass rushers around, occasionally shifting just before the snap. Ratliff's ability to drop back in coverage -- he played safety and linebacker in high school -- aids the Cowboys' ability to be creative with their rushes out of this personnel package.

Follow the jump for a breakdown of the dozen times the Cowboys' three edge rushers were on the field together.

For each play, I'll list the situation, where the three pass rushers lined up, who blocked them and what happened on the play.

Situation: Third-and-6 from the Cowboys 44, Giants' first possession
Ware: Lined up on RG's outside shoulder.
Ellis: Lined up at LOLB.
Spencer: Lined up over center, standing up.
What happened: Giants called timeout.

Situation: Third-and-6 from the Cowboys 44, Giants' first possession
Ware: Lined up at ROLB, popping up from 3-point stance as play clock ticked down.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE.
Spencer: Lined up at LOLB, shifting from inside.
What happened: Spencer jumped offsides.

Situation: Third-and-8 at 50, Giants' last possession of first quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, doubled by LT and RB.
What happened: Ken Hamlin intercepted the pass after Ellis bull-rushed the RG and hit Eli Manning's wrist as he threw. Cowboys came with four-man rush, with Ratliff dropping to cover short middle zone.

Situation: Third-and-20 at Giants 32, right before first half two-minute warning.
Ware: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT with chip from RB.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE over RG, doubled by RG and RT with RG trying to peel back to help on Spencer.
Spencer: Lined up at LOLB, shifting late after standing behind Ellis, blocked by TE.
What happened: Spencer whipped Jeremy Shockey and got to Manning before the RG could help. Sack for loss of 12 yards. Cowboys came with four-man rush, with Ratliff floating out in the flat.

Situation: Third-and-8 at Giants 49, Giants' first possession of third quarter.
Ware: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by RB.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, splitting out wide, blocked by RT.
Spencer: Lined up at RDE, standing up over TE, blocked by C after stunting inside.
What happened: Ware whipped Brandon Jacobs to force Manning to get rid of the ball before he wanted. Shockey gained 6 yards on reception, forcing a punt. Ellis got good bullrush on RT. Cowboys came with five-man rush.

Situation: Third-and-5 from Cowboys 46, last drive of third quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE.
Spencer: Lined up at RILB.
What happened: Delay of game.

Situation: Third-and-10 from Giants 49, last drive of third quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by LT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with help from C.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by TE with late help from LT.
What happened: Ware almost got to Manning, but Manning hit Amani Toomer on a slant for a 23-yard gain. Cowboys came with four-man rush, with Ratliff floating out into flat.

Situation: Third-and-8 from Giants 25, midway through fourth quarter.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: Four-man rush (Ratliff dropping to cover short middle) didn't get pressure on Manning, who completed a 10-yard pass to Shockey.

Situation: First-and-10 from Giants 35, next play
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT with chip from RB.
What happened: Giants went no-huddle, and Cowboys came with same rush. Manning hit TE Kevin Boss on a corner route for an 18-yard gain.

Situation: First-and-10 from Giants 35, next play
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: No-huddle again, and Manning hit Jacobs over middle for 10-yard gain.

Situation: First-and-10 from Cowboys 37, next play.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG with C help.
Spencer: Lined up at ROLB, blocked by LT.
What happened: Draw to Jacobs for 6 yards.

Situation: Second-and-4 from Cowboys 31, next play.
Ware: Lined up at LOLB, blocked by RT.
Ellis: Lined up at LDE, blocked by RG.
Spencer: Lined up at RILB, dropped into coverage.
What happened: Burnett came free on blitz between C and RG, hitting Manning and forcing an incomplete pass.


What the hell does any of this have to do with the Redskins employing the No Huddle Offense?

[Corporal Chaos]

I think he just wanted a reason to talk about the Cow-boylovers' pass rush

[esmith1790]

What the hell does any of this have to do with the Redskins employing the No Huddle Offense?


it was to show that in the 3-4 defense we have versatile players that can rush and cover, so a no-huddle can be less effective of trying to keep a certain defensive package on/off the field.

[esmith1790]

I think he just wanted a reason to talk about the Cow-boylovers' pass rush

With almost 1000 posts i dont think i am looking just for a reason. I have been here awhile and now with it being skins/boys it will be a great debate.

[Keino]

it was to show that in the 3-4 defense we have versatile players that can rush and cover, so a no-huddle can be less effective of trying to keep a certain defensive package on/off the field.

So your contention then, is that the Cowboys are better suited to defend the No Huddle than any other team in the league, so the Redskins shouldn't try it?

Even if your players are versatile, the defense not being able to substitute and the offense controlling the pace are the reasons why we would employ this tactic.

[Red Bear]

it was to show that in the 3-4 defense we have versatile players that can rush and cover, so a no-huddle can be less effective of trying to keep a certain defensive package on/off the field.

atleast half those scenarios you posted were in favor of the giants

[firehawk157]

I don't know dude, none of that shows a massive amount of domination. One INT off of a tap of Eli's wrist and a sack for a 12 yard loss. Overall, there were 8 third down plays against that package. 3 of them were converted. One was a Giants' delay-of-game and another, a Giants timeout. 1 was a sack, 1 was an INT and one was a pass completed short of the first down.

Against the no-huddle, this particular package was pretty horrendous. The Giants went no-huddle twice, keeping this package and completed two passes for a total of 28 yards. 18 yards to TE Kevin Boss, who I believe, had his first reception.

I'm not buying this as being a dominant package against pass plays. Leading to only one sack and one turnover.

[Biggie]

Why do we let Cowboy fans talk about how great their team is on here?

[techskinsfan]

Why do we let Cowboy fans talk about how great their team is on here?
cuz were not communists

[esmith1790]

So your contention then, is that the Cowboys are better suited to defend the No Huddle than any other team in the league, so the Redskins shouldn't try it?

Even if your players are versatile, the defense not being able to substitute and the offense controlling the pace are the reasons why we would employ this tactic.


Not better then any other team in the league. But if they run it and we have Ware, Ellis, Spencer on the field, we have packages that use a 3-4/4-3 out of those same guys. Ellis could be the LDE and Ware could be the LOLB stand up next to Ellis. In the beginning of the year when Ellis was out, we ran some 4-3 line-ups where Spencer and Ware were the DEs. We run a 4-2-5, with Roy Williams as a DB playing up as a 3rd lber to help with run support on draws and screens.

Sure the giants were successful against us when we ran it, but the main reason for the no-huddle is to keep certain personnel packages on/off the field. I was just trying to say that i think with our personnel we can adapt to it better then most teams.

[Red Bear]

Sure the giants were successful against us when we ran it, but the main reason for the no-huddle is to keep certain personnel packages on/off the field. I was just trying to say that i think with our personnel we can adapt to it better then most teams.

what you posted as your reason for thinking this says otherwise tho

[Redskin4Life]

Not better then any other team in the league. But if they run it and we have Ware, Ellis, Spencer on the field, we have packages that use a 3-4/4-3 out of those same guys. Ellis could be the LDE and Ware could be the LOLB stand up next to Ellis. In the beginning of the year when Ellis was out, we ran some 4-3 line-ups where Spencer and Ware were the DEs. We run a 4-2-5, with Roy Williams as a DB playing up as a 3rd lber to help with run support on draws and screens.

Sure the giants were successful against us when we ran it, but the main reason for the no-huddle is to keep certain personnel packages on/off the field. I was just trying to say that i think with our personnel we can adapt to it better then most teams.
While this is all true, I thought the reason for no-huddle is to wear out the defense since they're playing catchup the whole time the offense is out there. For example, you're playing a 4-2-5 D scheme with Roy as a 3rd LB, we could just run a couple of times and force Roy to come up to tackle then throw to Cooley over the top. Roy would have been running back and forth and he would be the one exploited in the No-Huddle, correct? So how would having Ware, Spencer, Ellis on the field at the same time help that?

And isn't that the same thing we can say about our beloved Skins? With a 4-2-5 as our base, we could use Landry as our 3rd LB.... how's the Dallas D better than us in that respect? The D-Line? But EVERYONE'S got a better D-Line than us so that's a moot point.

I guess I'm just not following your logic... please explain further.

[Redskin4Life]

Also, wouldn't the Giants have the same advantage too if they had a better secondary? They use Osi, Strahan, Kiwi as pass specialists... basically running a 4-3 blitz with Kiwi and one of the ends overloading a side. They could also play a basic 4-3 and let Kiwi come in on a delayed blitz. Seems to me they have the same situ as you guys.... just a slightly better secondary.

So how are you guys so much better equipped for the No-Huddle?

[Keino]

Also, wouldn't the Giants have the same advantage too if they had a better secondary? They use Osi, Strahan, Kiwi as pass specialists... basically running a 4-3 blitz with Kiwi and one of the ends overloading a side. They could also play a basic 4-3 and let Kiwi come in on a delayed blitz. Seems to me they have the same situ as you guys.... just a slightly better secondary.

So how are you guys so much better equipped for the No-Huddle?

They aren't. Esmith's drivel has no relevance whatsoever to the thread. He is just pimpin his team.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Not better then any other team in the league. But if they run it and we have Ware, Ellis, Spencer on the field, we have packages that use a 3-4/4-3 out of those same guys. Ellis could be the LDE and Ware could be the LOLB stand up next to Ellis. In the beginning of the year when Ellis was out, we ran some 4-3 line-ups where Spencer and Ware were the DEs. We run a 4-2-5, with Roy Williams as a DB playing up as a 3rd lber to help with run support on draws and screens.

Sure the giants were successful against us when we ran it, but the main reason for the no-huddle is to keep certain personnel packages on/off the field. I was just trying to say that i think with our personnel we can adapt to it better then most teams.

As long as the Cowboys have Roy Williams on the field for coverage and not run support, I don't care what we run. As a run supporter, he is a pro bowler. As a coverage safety, he is bottom five in the league. Let's see if we can take advantage of that.

[firehawk157]

Here's a sneak peek into the film room today:

Cooley, find where Roy Williams is and run a route in his area. You may think you're covered, but trust me, you aren't. Also, he tackles in two ways, one is a horse collar, which inexplicably won't be called during the game but will be fined on Monday (with a stern warning about how he may, in the future, be suspended if he continues this behavior). The second is he will bump you with his shoulder.

Moss, again, find out which half of the field Williams is on and motion there. You don't have to worry about how he tackles.

Campbell throw it to whoever Newman is covering. No matter what his position is, he's already had his INT for the year, so you don't have to worry about getting picked off. He may swat the ball, but he's their version of Carlos Rogers. Just minus the crazy awesome dance moves between plays.

Ware is a bonafide beast, but that's okay because Spears and Canty are worse than Phillip Daniels... Somebody wake him up by the way.

[colkurtz]

We need to run the no huddle because it works. This is a QB driven league and with JC playing at a 110+ QB rating we can be a contender (if the defense shows up).

the big thing is that we need to let JC call the plays in the red zone!

[skinsfan36]

i think we need to do this on at least 3 drives this week

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I would rather have Jason call the plays the whole game then whomever is calling them now. Saunders has only wasted our time here. We would've been much better off using Gibbs' plays on the roll that we were on in 2005. Those plays with an actual QB, we would win. Oh well, took two years for our team to learn a fricking playbook.