Gibbs leaving? Not a chance

[hogs86]

I know some will not like this but this makes me very happy.

Joe Gibbs isn’t going anywhere this offseason but to scout potential first-round picks, meet free agents and watch game film.

Gibbs is not getting fired. He’s not quitting.

It doesn’t matter what sports talk radio is screaming. Media speculation, blogs, Web sites or anything else are irrelevant, too.

There are only two people that matter in deciding who the Washington Redskins coach will be next year — owner Dan Snyder and Gibbs. The man who signs the checks and the one who cashes them. Everything else is background noise.




Link http://www.examiner.com/a-1058886~Gibbs_leaving__Not_a_chance.html?cid=

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I read this article this morning and came away feeling good. Depends on how things finish, but right now I want to keep continuity on the offensive side of the ball for one more season.

By the way, interesting point about Snyder having loyalty to coaches, first Spurrier and now Gibbs. You don't get that angle from main stream media.

[Biggie]

Look, if he kept getting more aggresive, took the leash off of the offense, and FINALLY learned how to manage the clock, I'd want Joe here for another decade. He's getting closer to the first two, and I'd like to see some improvement on the third.

[JasonCampbell]

Look, if he kept getting more aggresive, took the leash off of the offense, and FINALLY learned how to manage the clock, I'd want Joe here for another decade. He's getting closer to the first two, and I'd like to see some improvement on the third.

I agree. If Saunders can call ALL offensive plays with no input from Gibbs, I'd love for him to stick around.

[CNYSkinFan]

As much as I hate certain things under Gibbs, I know it is better then it would be with just about anything else. Gibbs is keeping Snyder in the backroom. No other coach can do that.

I still believe we have a window of 2 years for the superbowl, this and next. If not then Gibbs will retire again and Snyder will blow up the team and bring in some lackey college coach to remake the team in their image.

I want the stability and if the offense continues to flourish then this is good news.

I pray someone hires Williams away from us too because I want that arrogant SOB gone

[CNYSkinFan]

Look, if he kept getting more aggresive, took the leash off of the offense, and FINALLY learned how to manage the clock, I'd want Joe here for another decade. He's getting closer to the first two, and I'd like to see some improvement on the third.
I actually think Clock Management was pretty good this last game. We had all three of our timeouts when we started the drive that ended in the interceptiom and even got a chance for a few hail mary's because we still had two when the pick happened.

[Farmer Ted]

If not then Gibbs will retire again and Snyder will blow up the team and bring in some lackey college coach to remake the team in their image.


You saying you don't want Pete Carroll to be the next coach?

[CNYSkinFan]

You saying you don't want Pete Carroll to be the next coach?
well if it is him or williams, yes I want Pete Carroll. I rather have Russ Grimm in two years

[The Iceman]

Gibbs staying? GOOD

[colkurtz]

Gibbs II has the same winning percentage as Norv, Spurrier and yet everyone is happy he is staying. Hmmm...

Any other coach on the planet and people would be calling for a change. But we must continue to suffer in below average mediocrity because of SB rings won a generation ago.

The last games the reins were loosened, somewhat. but Joe Gibbs is still tightening up and playing conservative when we need to take some chances - which has cost us games.

Finally, does ANYONE think joe Gibbs will fire or replace Gregg Williams - no matter how this defense finishes up?

[skinfanjon]

well if it is him or williams, yes I want Pete Carroll. I rather have Russ Grimm in two years

Grimm or Mike Singletary for me, please.

[CNYSkinFan]

Grimm or Mike Singletary for me, please.
i would love singleterry as a dc over williams next year...but I doubt gibbs will fire him.

[hogskins]

Gibbs II has the same winning percentage as Norv, Spurrier and yet everyone is happy he is staying. Hmmm...

Any other coach on the planet and people would be calling for a change. But we must continue to suffer in below average mediocrity because of SB rings won a generation ago.

The last games the reins were loosened, somewhat. but Joe Gibbs is still tightening up and playing conservative when we need to take some chances - which has cost us games.

Finally, does ANYONE think joe Gibbs will fire or replace Gregg Williams - no matter how this defense finishes up?

Joe's recent body of work (Gibbs II) has not been very impressive--I agree with you there. What I'm afraid of is that Danny won't be afraid to make a big splash with his next HC hire. He's apparently out of the the business of dumping money at player "names" like Deion, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, etc., but he still gets to pick Mr. Big, and he's frankly innoculated from criticism, no matter who he picks to replace Gibbs, unless he finds an excuse to double Gregg Williams salary.

Maybe he'll tease Vermiel or Tuna out of retirement. Ugh.

[colkurtz]

Joe's recent body of work (Gibbs II) has not been very impressive--I agree with you there. What I'm afraid of is that Danny won't be afraid to make a big splash with his next HC hire. He's apparently out of the the business of dumping money at player "names" like Deion, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, etc., but he still gets to pick Mr. Big, and he's frankly innoculated from criticism, no matter who he picks to replace Gibbs, unless he finds an excuse to double Gregg Williams salary.

I hear what you are saying. HOWEVER, what happens if Snyder has learned his lesson and hires a GM first? Stranger things have happened in this world.

i just wonder if Gibbs II can adapt enough to get us really competitive. This is the first time they have really opened up this offense in 3.6 seasons.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

So Gibbs is staying no matter what? Even if we have another losing season this year?

How is this good news?

[Farmer Ted]

It guarantees that Nick Saban won't be coaching the Skins next year.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It guarantees that Nick Saban won't be coaching the Skins next year.
Well, that certainly is good news.

[LATrueRedskin]

It guarantees that Nick Saban won't be coaching the Skins next year.

Saban coaching the Skins would be a catastrophic event, like 9/11.

[Farmer Ted]

Saban coaching the Skins would be a catastrophic event, like 9/11.

It would be like Pearl Harbor going straight up your butt! :moon2:

[Battle Cat]

Gibbs II has the same winning percentage as Norv, Spurrier and yet everyone is happy he is staying. Hmmm...

Any other coach on the planet and people would be calling for a change. But we must continue to suffer in below average mediocrity because of SB rings won a generation ago.

The last games the reins were loosened, somewhat. but Joe Gibbs is still tightening up and playing conservative when we need to take some chances - which has cost us games.

Finally, does ANYONE think joe Gibbs will fire or replace Gregg Williams - no matter how this defense finishes up?
Allot of people around here want Bill Cowher and how long did it take him to win a Super Bowl? We are not even a 1/3 of the way with Gibbs II to the time it took Cowher. That is what I don't understand. As far as Gibbs staying I am all for offensive cohesiveness. I don't want some new guy coming in screwing with Campbell when he is starting to come into his own. As far as the defense goes heck this is a year and a half of this crap and we seem to be getting worse instead of better. I say if you want to run cover 2 bring in Marvin Lewis after the Bengals fire him. If you want an attacking defense like I think we should go with bring in Mike Singletary.

[skins74]

I hope he turns all offensive playcalling over to Al, that means even critical ones.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Allot of people around here want Bill Cowher and how long did it take him to win a Super Bowl? We are not even a 1/3 of the way with Gibbs II to the time it took Cowher. That is what I don't understand. As far as Gibbs staying I am all for offensive cohesiveness. I don't want some new guy coming in screwing with Campbell when he is starting to come into his own. As far as the defense goes heck this is a year and a half of this crap and we seem to be getting worse instead of better. I say if you want to run cover 2 bring in Marvin Lewis after the Bengals fire him. If you want an attacking defense like I think we should go with bring in Mike Singletary.
Well, Cowher made the playoffs his first year, the conference championship his 3rd, and the Super Bowl his fourth. He also had multiple 10+ win seasons with QBs such as Kordell Stewart, Mike Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox.
You can question Cowher's motivation at this point, but you can't question his success with the Steelers.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Well, Cowher made the playoffs his first year, the conference championship his 3rd, and the Super Bowl his fourth. He also had multiple 10+ win seasons with QBs such as Kordell Stewart, Mike Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox.
You can question Cowher's motivation at this point, but you can't question his success with the Steelers.
Well, he also had AMAZING D's... Lloyd, Greene, Kirkland, Woodson, etc. come to mind

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Well, he also had AMAZING D's... Lloyd, Greene, Kirkland, Woodson, etc. come to mind
True. And ridiculous WRs at least until Ward got there.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

True. And ridiculous WRs at least until Ward got there.
Yancey Thigpen (sp?) was a good receiver... other than that I have no idea

[redskin_rich]

Yancey Thigpen (sp?) was a good receiver... other than that I have no idea

Charles Johnson, who never lived up to his draft status and of course, they made their living on offense with great O-Lines and power running with Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley.

Thing to remember is that the Steelers were and are a cheap organization. They lost players every year and used the draft almost exclusively to fill their needs. There are good aspects to that but also disadvantages, in that they were always losing superior talent.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Yancey Thigpen (sp?) was a good receiver... other than that I have no idea
He was a strange player. He had 2 1300+ seasons, and then no other season in which he got even half of that.

Actually, he had more than half his total yards in just those 2 seasons. So he was great in those 2, and absolutely crap in all the rest.

[hogskins]

He was a strange player. He had 2 1300+ seasons, and then no other season in which he got even half of that.

Actually, he had more than half his total yards in just those 2 seasons. So he was great in those 2, and absolutely crap in all the rest.

My memory is bad--was he in the "Neil O'Donnell must have been paid off the throw it to the Cowgirls" SB?

[joethefan]

OH GOD!!!!

You mean to tell me we'll have another year of this crap....It's all of us, we're fighting our guts out, blame me what could I have done......it's sicking when we are sitting at this same position next year, then many of you will be saying, why did we keep him......the fact of the matter is we'll be cap screwed for the next 2 to three years....unbelievable...We'll be sitting again with our backs agains the wall, wondering again will we make it to the playoffs....

[SpicyMcHaggis]

My memory is bad--was he in the "Neil O'Donnell must have been paid off the throw it to the Cowgirls" SB?

Yeah. That was one of his 2 good years.

[give_portis_the_rock]

We love you Coach Gibbs, never leave :)

[joethefan]

We love you Coach Gibbs, never leave :)

we love you enough to see you leave with your dignity...

[Jon Creveling]

we love you enough to see you leave with your dignity...

In my mind his only saving grace is to get this team by fair means or foul to the playoffs this year and at the very least win one game. Anything short of that does not justify a 5th year. Joe, I may be way off on this but if I read between the lines, are you saying you want to avoid getting to the point of hating him? Wishing he was gone? Nothing against you Joe! But I was thinking along the same lines.

[Hr fan]

I hope he turns all offensive playcalling over to Al, that means even critical ones.

Joe should limit his imput to weekly planning. On game day he should let Saunders do his thing, limiting any input to 1/2 time adjustments advice, or when Al asks him for input.

[greatest2]

extend coach gibbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

extend coach gibbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.........number of wins!

[BandWagon]

well if it is him or williams, yes I want Pete Carroll. I rather have Russ Grimm in two years

CANNOT have Pete Carroll. He's not an NFL quality coach. I know a guy who played for him in New England. Said he was a joke and none of the players respected him...in fact some snubbed his rules, skipped meetings, etc. That would be an unmitigated Spurrier like disaster....

[BandWagon]

You know, to play Devil's advocate here, this Mr. Snider is just as guilty of speculation as the "sports talk radio... Media speculation, blogs, Web sites or anything else". He's right in one thing...it is between Snyder and Gibbs. He makes you think it's 50/50....I'd have to disagree there. Snyder's feelings and wishes definitely could slant that ratio heavily in his favor. Also, I'm not so sure "there is no financial pressure from fans in the sold-out stadium". Cleary the waitlist being manipulated to lead people to believe it's still a 30 year wait for tickets and look no further than the partial season Club Seat fiasco from this summer. I didn't find anything Mr. Snider wrote authoritative or even compelling. Nice opinion piece tho.

[RicFlairOne]

this article from the Texas Examiner perhaps wishful thinking on their part next 6 games may decide if he stays or not

[SkinsfaninNJ]

this article from the Texas Examiner perhaps wishful thinking on their part next 6 games may decide if he stays or not

I think that is true. If at the end of the year we are 5-11, I think he steps down knowing this organization can go further without him. I think it takes 7 or maybe 8 wins for him to come back with this group mostly intact for next year.

[dukeuch]

Allot of people around here want Bill Cowher and how long did it take him to win a Super Bowl? We are not even a 1/3 of the way with Gibbs II to the time it took Cowher. That is what I don't understand. As far as Gibbs staying I am all for offensive cohesiveness. I don't want some new guy coming in screwing with Campbell when he is starting to come into his own. As far as the defense goes heck this is a year and a half of this crap and we seem to be getting worse instead of better. I say if you want to run cover 2 bring in Marvin Lewis after the Bengals fire him. If you want an attacking defense like I think we should go with bring in Mike Singletary.

With all due respect to Gibbs, Cowher did a much better job in his first 4 years with the Steelers than Gibbs II has done. In the seven years prior to Cowher, the Steelers made the playoffs once. He was 40-24 his first four years, making the playoffs every year, compared to Gibbs who is 26-32 so far in his fourth year, with one playoff appearence. If the 'Skins win out this year, and go 16-0 in the regular season next, Gibbs still will not have as good a winning percentage as Cowher did his first 5 years. I'd love it if we could bring Cowher in.

And where in the world has the groundswell for Singletary come from? I mean, it's not like anyone is scared of SF's D.

[OCSKINSFAN]

Gibbs II has the same winning percentage as Norv, Spurrier and yet everyone is happy he is staying. Hmmm...

Any other coach on the planet and people would be calling for a change. But we must continue to suffer in below average mediocrity because of SB rings won a generation ago.

The last games the reins were loosened, somewhat. but Joe Gibbs is still tightening up and playing conservative when we need to take some chances - which has cost us games.

Finally, does ANYONE think joe Gibbs will fire or replace Gregg Williams - no matter how this defense finishes up?

This is so true. JOE HAS GOT TO GO. I would only consider changing my opinion if the Redskins make the playoffs with a winning record. I am thankful for the opening up of the offense, but like many other Gibbs II changes, it took far too long. Gibbs II has been a bust, for which the coaches have been the primary reason. Gibbs should only be evaluated on that.

[JsMaViSd]

This is so true. JOE HAS GOT TO GO. I would only consider changing my opinion if the Redskins make the playoffs with a winning record. I am thankful for the opening up of the offense, but like many other Gibbs II changes, it took far too long. Gibbs II has been a bust, for which the coaches have been the primary reason. Gibbs should only be evaluated on that.

i wouldnt say Gibbs has been a bust, but he is not getting things done

[chris]

I still think joe gibbs gives us the best chance to win and I really want him back for at least next year....I still think we are gonna be a playoff team this year and once your in the playoffs its anybodys game...the steelers got hot the year before last and won the superbowl from the wildcard spot so who knows what could happen...same goes for next year...at this point I think we can only get better..luck has alot to do with winning in the NFL and as much bad luck as this team has had the last few years it has to get better at some point...I still think this team is way to good to start over right now..its not time to rebuild!!! Joe gibbs deserves our love, respect, and at least 5 years of our time to see what he can do...I know it hasent been fun or pretty this year but what is one more year gonna hurt us as fans...and hell who knows maybe just maybe old joe gibbs gets this thing turned around and proves to everyone else what most redskins fans already know...
JOE GIBBS IS THE GREASTEST FOOTBALL COACH EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JsMaViSd]

I still think joe gibbs gives us the best chance to win and I really want him back for at least next year....I still think we are gonna be a playoff team this year and once your in the playoffs its anybodys game...the steelers got hot the year before last and won the superbowl from the wildcard spot so who knows what could happen...same goes for next year...at this point I think we can only get better..luck has alot to do with winning in the NFL and as much bad luck as this team has had the last few years it has to get better at some point...I still think this team is way to good to start over right now..its not time to rebuild!!! Joe gibbs deserves our love, respect, and at least 5 years of our time to see what he can do...I know it hasent been fun or pretty this year but what is one more year gonna hurt us as fans...and hell who knows maybe just maybe old joe gibbs gets this thing turned around and proves to everyone else what most redskins fans already know...
JOE GIBBS IS THE GREASTEST FOOTBALL COACH EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I still think the Bengals win that Super Bowl if Carson wasnt cheap shotted

[youngestson]

As much as I hate certain things under Gibbs, I know it is better then it would be with just about anything else. Gibbs is keeping Snyder in the backroom. No other coach can do that.

I still believe we have a window of 2 years for the superbowl, this and next. If not then Gibbs will retire again and Snyder will blow up the team and bring in some lackey college coach to remake the team in their image.

I want the stability and if the offense continues to flourish then this is good news.

I pray someone hires Williams away from us too because I want that arrogant SOB gone



You got that right!!!!!!!:D

[smoak]

Great news indeed!

[Syllable]

well if it is him or williams, yes I want Pete Carroll. I rather have Russ Grimm in two years

There are so many more coaches who are more proven than Grimm....

Signing Gibbs to an extension and keeping him here is a BAD idea. Here's why:

1. He has gotten us once to the playoffs, through a wildcard on the last week of the year.
2. Clock Management is one of the worst in the league.
3. His over conservative style of coaching has cost us.
4. Not so impressive winning percentage.
5. If we are keeping him here just to keep Snyder off the team, we have a bigger problem.
6. While we are worrying about Snyder messing with the team, Williams is doing whatever he wants with the defense and it IS NOT working.
7. 5-5 right now, we are in his fourth year, and he can't beat any good teams. How long do we have to wait until we can beat good teams?

Really, is Gibbs doing anything another Coach couldn't do in his place? If so, what?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

There are so many more coaches who are more proven than Grimm....

Signing Gibbs to an extension and keeping him here is a BAD idea. Here's why:

1. He has gotten us once to the playoffs, through a wildcard on the last week of the year.
2. Clock Management is one of the worst in the league.
3. His over conservative style of coaching has cost us.
4. Not so impressive winning percentage.
5. If we are keeping him here just to keep Snyder off the team, we have a bigger problem.
6. While we are worrying about Snyder messing with the team, Williams is doing whatever he wants with the defense and it IS NOT working.
7. 5-5 right now, we are in his fourth year, and he can't beat any good teams. How long do we have to wait until we can beat good teams?

Really, is Gibbs doing anything another Coach couldn't do in his place? If so, what?
Hold on..we are even talking about an extension now? Even if we decide to forget his sub-par record for a moment, there is one thing that is, and will remain, absolutely indisputable:

The man is 67 years old (by the way, tomorrow is his birthday). If he stays next season, he will end the 2008 season at 68. I think it is not acceptable to have a 70 year old man be the head coach of a team.


And by the way, I absolutely agree with your point #5. (I agree with pretty much all of what you said, but that especially)

[joethefan]

In my mind his only saving grace is to get this team by fair means or foul to the playoffs this year and at the very least win one game. Anything short of that does not justify a 5th year. Joe, I may be way off on this but if I read between the lines, are you saying you want to avoid getting to the point of hating him? Wishing he was gone? Nothing against you Joe! But I was thinking along the same lines.

I won't ever grow to the level of hating him, but I just can't stand the fact the he bought into the danny is right theory of throwing money and draft picks away...that's all. i can't stand it.....If he's holding the team back which it looks like he is, then yes he needs to go. One or two weeks of decent offensive play doesn't justify anything imo....

why are we for the 3rd year in a row, waiting till mid season to make a move at anything. As well as why is it that we never start the season off at full speed...we always wait until our 7th or 8th game to get going when other teams are straight out the gate or at least ready to roll by the 3rd game...To me this falls on the HC

[Hr fan]

Hold on..we are even talking about an extension now? Even if we decide to forget his sub-par record for a moment, there is one thing that is, and will remain, absolutely indisputable:

The man is 67 years old (by the way, tomorrow is his birthday). If he stays next season, he will end the 2008 season at 68. I think it is not acceptable to have a 70 year old man be the head coach of a team.


And by the way, I absolutely agree with your point #5. (I agree with pretty much all of what you said, but that especially)

With emphaisi, DITTO!!!

[Biggie]

It's a shame that you can't fire the owner.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

It's a shame that you can't fire the owner.

One thing I took from the article is maybe we are underestimating Snyder a bit. He gave Spurrier almost complete control and didn't want him to leave without at least taking year 3 to straighten out the team. He seems to not want Gibbs to leave, and contrary to what many think here, Snyder is doing things the Gibbs way and not the other way around.

Snyder put his trust in Spurrier first and then Gibbs. At the time, both seemed like very good moves. Perhaps we are being too hard on Snyder.

[Biggie]

One thing I took from the article is maybe we are underestimating Snyder a bit. He gave Spurrier almost complete control and didn't want him to leave without at least taking year 3 to straighten out the team. He seems to not want Gibbs to leave, and contrary to what many think here, Snyder is doing things the Gibbs way and not the other way around.

Snyder put his trust in Spurrier first and then Gibbs. At the time, both seemed like very good moves. Perhaps we are being too hard on Snyder.
When he fires Cerrato and not only hires a competent professional in his place, but also gives that person control, I'll stop being hard on him.

[Syllable]

One thing I took from the article is maybe we are underestimating Snyder a bit. He gave Spurrier almost complete control and didn't want him to leave without at least taking year 3 to straighten out the team. He seems to not want Gibbs to leave, and contrary to what many think here, Snyder is doing things the Gibbs way and not the other way around.

Snyder put his trust in Spurrier first and then Gibbs. At the time, both seemed like very good moves. Perhaps we are being too hard on Snyder.

Didn't Spurrier quit also? So Snyder looked as if he was going to let Spurrier play out his entire contract.

[Syllable]

Hold on..we are even talking about an extension now? Even if we decide to forget his sub-par record for a moment, there is one thing that is, and will remain, absolutely indisputable:

The man is 67 years old (by the way, tomorrow is his birthday). If he stays next season, he will end the 2008 season at 68. I think it is not acceptable to have a 70 year old man be the head coach of a team.


And by the way, I absolutely agree with your point #5. (I agree with pretty much all of what you said, but that especially)

There have been post on ES with articles claiming that Gibbs might stay for an extra year or two past his term. I am not sure though.

[PennSkinsFan]

There have been post on ES with articles claiming that Gibbs might stay for an extra year or two past his term. I am not sure though.

Oh, thats just wonderful

[colkurtz]

We are 26-33 and although there are flashes of brilliance we are far from a real NFL contender. ANY other coach in the league would be fired with this record after 4 years.

We have cap issues next season and are not going to be able to buy ourselves out of this mediocrity. We'll have to rely on good draft picks and modest FA pickups.

I have no issues with the coaching today. JG played to win and took chances. Just wonder where that fire was in the previous games.

[JasonCampbell]

He needs to go. Any other coach would get axed after this season with the record over 4 years that we'll have. We are no better now than we were 4 years ago. He's shown no ability to change or modify how he coaches to improve...LEAVE please since I'm sure Danny Boy doesn't have the gonads to fire you.

[thehogs11]

He needs to go. Any other coach would get axed after this season with the record over 4 years that we'll have. We are no better now than we were 4 years ago. He's shown no ability to change or modify how he coaches to improve...LEAVE please since I'm sure Danny Boy doesn't have the gonads to fire you.
Your crazy..They have a francise QB...Not Shane Mathews

[colkurtz]

Danny will never fire Joe gibbs. Joe gibbs is the only one who will take himself out as head coach. I think he will do so to save his dignity. This team is sinking and shows no sign of being anything but average or worse.

Does ANYONE think anything will get better next season with JG as HC?

NOT ME. We need a new GM and to bring in a new coaching staff. 4 years is enough and JG is simply living off his prior glory.

[JasonCampbell]

NOT ME. We need a new GM and to bring in a new coaching staff. 4 years is enough and JG is simply living off his prior glory.

Absolutely agree with that statement. Preferably a GM with a good track record and a young, hungry first time HC and retain Al Saunders.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Danny will never fire Joe gibbs. Joe gibbs is the only one who will take himself out as head coach. I think he will do so to save his dignity. This team is sinking and shows no sign of being anything but average or worse.

Does ANYONE think anything will get better next season with JG as HC?

NOT ME. We need a new GM and to bring in a new coaching staff. 4 years is enough and JG is simply living off his prior glory.

I dont think things will be a lot better under another year of Joe but Danny aint hiring a GM so I dont know if a new head coach makes anything better, well atleast not for 2-3 years anyway.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Absolutely agree with that statement. Preferably a GM with a good track record and a young, hungry first time HC and retain Al Saunders.

Al left KC b/c he didnt get offered the job, no way he or GW stays if Gibbs leaves b/c I dont think GW will be offered the HC position either. So the options probably are...

Give Gibbs and current staff one more year to draft well, add a couple of moderate FA's and get healthy.

or

Start from scratch with a new staff, more than likely desiring new players for the new schemes,and wait 2-3 years to finish purging the roster and clean up cap issues before that staff can get their guys in place.

[colkurtz]

I dont think things will be a lot better under another year of Joe but Danny aint hiring a GM so I dont know if a new head coach makes anything better, well atleast not for 2-3 years anyway.

Dallas and Pittsburgh made transitions to new coaches and got better for it.

If this team was properly coached we could be several wins better than right now.

I'll take our chances on the new versus waiting for Gibbs to get it together. otherwise we will be having the same conversation next season at this time.......

[JasonCampbell]

Al left KC b/c he didnt get offered the job, no way he or GW stays if Gibbs leaves b/c I dont think GW will be offered the HC position either. So the options probably are...

Maybe, but that was 3 years ago and I really don't think there are many organizations knocking down his door for him to HC.

[OCSKINSFAN]

Dallas and Pittsburgh made transitions to new coaches and got better for it.

If this team was properly coached we could be several wins better than right now.

I'll take our chances on the new versus waiting for Gibbs to get it together. otherwise we will be having the same conversation next season at this time.......

My reaction to this game changes my opinion somewhat. Certainly looking at the results of Gibbs II to date, JG does not deserve to stay (and I don't expect the team to make the playoffs this year). However, despite this heartbreaking loss, it was not the fault of the coaching. It was the 6 turnovers by the players. I actually saw some coaching positives - a much better 2nd half, JG showing some guts, no handcuffs on JC, etc. Factor in no ARE for punt returns and no Sellers for the run game. I think JG is finally getting it right. Unfortunately, just like the other necessary changes during the rest of Gibbs II, it took too long.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Dallas and Pittsburgh made transitions to new coaches and got better for it.

If this team was properly coached we could be several wins better than right now.

I'll take our chances on the new versus waiting for Gibbs to get it together. otherwise we will be having the same conversation next season at this time.......

Yeah thats true, it does happen, just not for this franchise. It didnt with Norv, Marty, SS and hasnt with Gibbs. For one reason or another their respective FO's have done better than Vinny and Dan in this department. I would be all for it if I thought Danny would hire a guy to coach and a guy to be the GM not named Vinny...but if that isnt going to happen I would just as soon give Gibbs one last year before the team is blown up, atleast Danny respects him. I'd also say that out of our 6 losses this season atleast 3 of em ...including this one is on the players moreso than the coaching.

[colkurtz]

We have talent on this team. The question is whether the coaches are helping to maximize this talent or hindering it. Gibbs II has not been about maximizing the talent but holding it back.

A new GM and HC would not necessarily blow this team up. But they would get it back on track with a winning attitude and innovation. I just don't think we've come that far in 4 years and wonder what another year of mediocrity will do to improve that picture.

The time to rebuild is this off-season. We've already used up 3 years on JC career [if he turns out to be a "keeper" for he 'skins]. Want to waste another one simply because we don't want to change?

[Skins7ny]

Joe's recent body of work (Gibbs II) has not been very impressive--I agree with you there. What I'm afraid of is that Danny won't be afraid to make a big splash with his next HC hire. He's apparently out of the the business of dumping money at player "names" like Deion, Bruce Smith, Jeff George, etc., but he still gets to pick Mr. Big, and he's frankly innoculated from criticism, no matter who he picks to replace Gibbs, unless he finds an excuse to double Gregg Williams salary.

Maybe he'll tease Vermiel or Tuna out of retirement. Ugh.
That occurred to me the other day. Vermeil and Gibbs are good friends, and Vermeil might be the one guy that Saunders would stay for. We could keep offensive continuity and Vermeil would let Saunders do his job. I don't think it would happen, not even sure I would want it to happen if Gibbs left, but it is an interesting scenario.

I hear what you are saying. HOWEVER, what happens if Snyder has learned his lesson and hires a GM first? Stranger things have happened in this world.
i just wonder if Gibbs II can adapt enough to get us really competitive. This is the first time they have really opened up this offense in 3.6 seasons.

Stranger things have happened in this world. The fall of the Berlin Wall, for example. Still, I would be pretty surprised if Danny went that route.

Well, Cowher made the playoffs his first year, the conference championship his 3rd, and the Super Bowl his fourth. He also had multiple 10+ win seasons with QBs such as Kordell Stewart, Mike Tomczak, and Tommy Maddox.
You can question Cowher's motivation at this point, but you can't question his success with the Steelers.
Agreed. To say that the first four years of Cowher and Gibbs 2.0 are comparable because neither involved winning a super bowl is a ridiculous argument. The Steelers put a winning product on the field virtually every year of Cowher's tenure. They were playoff contenders on a consistent basis.
Charles Johnson, who never lived up to his draft status and of course, they made their living on offense with great O-Lines and power running with Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley.

Thing to remember is that the Steelers were and are a cheap organization. They lost players every year and used the draft almost exclusively to fill their needs. There are good aspects to that but also disadvantages, in that they were always losing superior talent.

One of the attractions of Washington for Cowher, besides the ginomours salary he could get out of Danny, is the fact that Danny will spend money to retain his own players. It had to be very frustrating for Cowher to develop these great players and then see them walk out the door four years later because the Steelers wouldn't spend the $$ to re-sign them. Danny is justifiably criticised for a lot of things, but he is always willing to spend money on players.
Of course, every good team loses players to free agency under the cap, but if Cowher's Steelers could have kept half of the guys that they lost, they could have been much more succesful. That said, they did a pretty good job knowing when to let a player walk (Keydrick Vincent, Joey Porter), etc.
Danny will never fire Joe gibbs. Joe gibbs is the only one who will take himself out as head coach. I think he will do so to save his dignity. This team is sinking and shows no sign of being anything but average or worse.

Does ANYONE think anything will get better next season with JG as HC?

NOT ME. We need a new GM and to bring in a new coaching staff. 4 years is enough and JG is simply living off his prior glory.

I do. The main reason being Jason Campbell gets another year of seasoning. Don't underestimate the importance of that. We are settled at the QB position, and that is half the battle. We will improve to the extent JC improves, and I think that will be considerable, regardless of who the head coach is.

[Hr fan]

Much to chew on in this thread. Gibbs is like a baseball manager, is the obvious target, and to some extent it is fair. Conversely it is not completely fair.

When comparing JGII to other coaching changes such as Cowher in PGH remember PGH had talent and identity built into the team, and a solid FO. It was a superior franchise needing a new wind. Ditto Vermeil in KC, who inherited a superb O line and TE and RB. JG inherited an old team with virtually no D, no QB, no RB, and a dissatisfied WR corps - not to mention cap problems. He also inherited a disfunctional FO with a track record of failure and virtually no developing youth on the team.

On the other hand he hired too many coaches, held too many full time jobs to perform any one well, had trouble with in-game issues such as 1/2 time adjustments and TO/clock management, and treated his players and team with methods consistent with 1980's character, not 2000's character.

While I don't think it is fair to blame him for the teams record I do think it is fair to credit him with getting the team to the lip of respectability, which other than off season hype that never translated into real performance did not exist before his arrival.

He has done his best and that is more than should have been expected given the initial conditions.

But the question is not the past. It is the future. The lack of a FO still exists, and he still holds more full time jobs than is healthy for either the team or him as an individual. He is 67. Most of his staff are approaching or in their senior years and, like Joe, are missing the character of current players. They expect total sacrifice and a loathing of losing while it is more realistic currently to expect great measurable effort matched to satisfaction with personal performance irrespective of team measurables such as winning.

Campbell is a Gibbs QB, a game manager but not a game changer. To succeed JC needs a strong supporting cast and a good D, playing virtually error free ball - Gibbs I hallmarks. To get there, with little known players stepping up ala Heyer (another Gibbs I hallmark), fundamental changes must be made and the roster largely built over in recognition that players in their 30s likely won't be here when the retooling is expected to bear fruit.

I hope JG realizes that the best he can do for this team is to concentrate on rebuilding the entire organization from the position of team president, since he is the only person IMO that can control the Snyder/Cerrato duo, and buy time for a GM and his scouts/coaching staff to take hold and turn the franchise around. Unfortunately I do not expect this. Gibbs will keep all 3 hats and the franchise will linger at the lip of respectability in a parity filled NFL until he leaves, and IMO the timing of that event is entirely up to JG.

[Moe]

Dallas and Pittsburgh made transitions to new coaches and got better for it.

Dallas sure, but with Pitt I think a healthy Ben is having much to do with their improvement. Of course, there is also the anecdotal evidence of what Norv has done to the Chargers, or Cameron in Miami (both bad) or Whizenhunt in Arizona (about the same but perhaps a brighter future). So I guess the question comes down to what you think the new coach has to work with? Obviously Dallas and Pitt had talent to work with (but then again so did San Diego), so if you think this team is in pretty good shape then it's possible that the right new coach could expect improvement. However, if this team isn't so good, then how much difference (and how soon) can any new coach make?

There's still plenty of games left, the outcome of which I suspect will cause most of us to reconsider this position more than a few times.

[Bengal224ord]

With all due respect to Gibbs, Cowher did a much better job in his first 4 years with the Steelers than Gibbs II has done. In the seven years prior to Cowher, the Steelers made the playoffs once. He was 40-24 his first four years, making the playoffs every year, compared to Gibbs who is 26-32 so far in his fourth year, with one playoff appearence. If the 'Skins win out this year, and go 16-0 in the regular season next, Gibbs still will not have as good a winning percentage as Cowher did his first 5 years. I'd love it if we could bring Cowher in.

And where in the world has the groundswell for Singletary come from? I mean, it's not like anyone is scared of SF's D.

Why are we matching Gibbs II with Cowher I. I like Cowher and if Gibbs were to quit, I would support him. Cowher is no Gibbs, the stats don't match.
Gibbs is 3-1 in the Bowl, thats 3 Rings in 12 years.
Cowhers 1-1. 15 years...do the math.
If we blow the team up again, we risk another 5 win season next year. We need to keep things going. Gibbs does not block or tackle. Our QB is growing up, and he will be good. We have to give it time.

Bengal224ord

[Bengal224ord]

I still think the Bengals win that Super Bowl if Carson wasnt cheap shotted

If you are talking about when Krumrie got hurt in the last Bengal vs. 49er Super Bowl believe you are right. The Niner would never had gone 92 yards with Krumrie in the game.

Bengal224

[CNYSkinFan]

If you are talking about when Krumrie got hurt in the last Bengal vs. 49er Super Bowl believe you are right. The Niner would never had gone 92 yards with Krumrie in the game.

Bengal224
isn't their a rap sheet err scouting report you should be reading?

[csquared]

If you are talking about when Krumrie got hurt in the last Bengal vs. 49er Super Bowl believe you are right. The Niner would never had gone 92 yards with Krumrie in the game.

Bengal224

Dude lay off the drugs. Go ahead and re-read what he typed. Nothing about Bengals vs 49ers.