Redskins now 0-9 when Campbell throws over 30 times

[ImRickJamesB]

Do you really want to let Jason Campbell throw this much?? Here's some interesting numbers regarding when Campbell's allowed to throw it more than 30 times in a game........

The Skins are now 0-9 in games which Jason Campbell throws over 30 times. In these 9 games, the Skins are only averaging 16.5 points per game. Before last week vs. Dallas, Campbell was averaging 29 pass attempts per game. Yes, he's throwing for more yards, but he's just throwing more, not more efficient. In games in which Campbell throws over 30 passes his yards per attempt goes down to a 6.2 average, with a 58% completion rate, and a passer rating of 80.1........

In the last 2 games Campbell has thrown the ball 103 times for 650 yards. Sounds good right? Well the bottom-line is its accounted for 3 TD's, 3 INT's, and 2 Lost Fumbles by Campbell.

I bet Gibbs reels him back in next week, and (imo) that would be the correct move.

What do y'all think?

[akhhorus]

Right, because its only Campbell's passing attempts that leads to the losses. :rolleyes: That's simplistic.

[hail2skins]

When you are behind and playing catchup, you will throw more. This stat doesn't mean a thing to me. There's so much involved. How many wre screens? How many were shuffles? too much involved.

[CNYSkinFan]

When you are behind and playing catchup, you will throw more. This stat doesn't mean a thing to me. There's so much involved. How many wre screens? How many were shuffles? too much involved.
I think except for elite qbs you are going to have losing records when your qb is chucking up over 30 times a game

[akhhorus]

I think except for elite qbs you are going to have losing records when your qb is chucking up over 30 times a game

Unless your Qb's name is Brady or Peyton Manning, it usually means you're behind for most of the 2nd half if you're passing it 30+ times a game.

[jaylen]

I think its easy to think having JC throw is a problem but I don't see it that way. Balance is always best, having Portis control games definitely is a winning formula but with our line being one sided we need JC to throw.Problem is we don't have a real gamebreaker at wr so there's always throws into tight spots.

JC is not coming through in the clutch thats apparent right now but its not like our coaches are managing the games well.

JC throwing is okay in my eyes he just has to find a way at the end of games to come through because during the meat of games he's fine.

He made some great 3rd down and 8, 9, and 10 yards to go throws today.

I think he's our future at qb still I think the mistakes are correctable.

[44FAN]

I'm actually happy he threw that much. It showed we have two pretty good receivers in McCardell and Caldwell. Throw Cooley into that mix and bring back Thrash and we're solid. I'm losing confidence in Moss by the game. If he's as hurt as they say he is, then sit him down. He's hurting us at this point.

[hail2skins]

I think except for elite qbs you are going to have losing records when your qb is chucking up over 30 times a gameEli Manning. :D

[CNYSkinFan]

Eli Manning. :D
yeah...he is elite....something

[akhhorus]

Eli Manning. :D

And people wonder why the Giants won't even talk about an extension for him....

[JoeDaSchmoe]

People always make waaaaaaaay too much of this stat and its brother, total rushing attempts.

You know what you do if you're down late in the game? Pass every play. You know what usually happens to teams that are down late in the game? They lose.

Vice-versa is true for running the ball.

[44FAN]

You know what you do if you're down late in the game? Pass every play. You know what usually happens to teams that are down late in the game? They lose.

Like my old ball coach used to say..."Three things can happen when you pass the ball. Two of them are bad"

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Do you really want to let Jason Campbell throw this much?? Here's some interesting numbers regarding when Campbell's allowed to throw it more than 30 times in a game........

The Skins are now 0-9 in games which Jason Campbell throws over 30 times. In these 9 games, the Skins are only averaging 16.5 points per game. Before last week vs. Dallas, Campbell was averaging 29 pass attempts per game. Yes, he's throwing for more yards, but he's just throwing more, not more efficient. In games in which Campbell throws over 30 passes his yards per attempt goes down to a 6.2 average, with a 58% completion rate, and a passer rating of 80.1........

In the last 2 games Campbell has thrown the ball 103 times for 650 yards. Sounds good right? Well the bottom-line is its accounted for 3 TD's, 3 INT's, and 2 Lost Fumbles by Campbell.

I bet Gibbs reels him back in next week, and (imo) that would be the correct move.
What do y'all think?

This isn't about reeling him in. If we didn't fumble the ball away 4 times, we are probably up 14 in the second half and running out the clock. We threw because we had to throw. If we are up 17 next week, you can count on a heavy dose of the run.

By the way, when Campbell does get this late game thing turned around (and I have watched enough football to know that he will) your team and the rest of the division better watch.

[Biggie]

I usually don't take advice from Cowboys fans.

[hail2skins]

yeah...he is elite....somethingmy point is that he is not elite but has a winning record and chucks it 30+ times in several games.

[akhhorus]

I usually don't take advice from Cowboys fans.

Yeah, its sort of like the good angel on my shoulder. That guy is a killjoy.

[hail2skins]

I usually don't take advice from Cowboys fans.
LMAO

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Like my old ball coach used to say..."Three things can happen when you pass the ball. Two of them are bad"

Well, gosh, we might as well just run the single-wing and forget that forward passes are even legal.

[CNYSkinFan]

Well, gosh, we might as well just run the single-wing and forget that forward passes are even legal.
we did that earlier in the year lol

[jaylen]

Well, gosh, we might as well just run the single-wing and forget that forward passes are even legal.

we tried that 3 weeks ago didn't we lol

[CNYSkinFan]

we did that earlier in the year lol
The fact is we spotted Tampa 16 points with 4 turnovers inside our own 35. We also have a crappy oline right now with Fabini and heyer starting on one side and unable to generate consistent running lanes.

Of course we are going to throw. Anytime you give up the ball 6 times I doubt you are going to win the game.

[44FAN]

Well, gosh, we might as well just run the single-wing and forget that forward passes are even legal.

At this point I'd settle for holding on to the ball.

[Dept_of_Defense]

Yeah, its sort of like the good angel on my shoulder. That guy is a killjoy.

We really should make it a rule that you have to be a Redskins fan to be a member on this site. I understand he didn't say anything inappropriate, but honestly, does anyone really want to hear what a Cowboys fan has to say? I sure as hell don't. We should let the members vote for this rule.

[ImRickJamesB]

When you are behind and playing catchup, you will throw more.

That makes sense. However, if that's the case, then that would make him 0-9 in games which the Redskins are behind. That's not what you want to see either.

1 more question for y'all..........

How long until y'all begin to hold Campbell more accountable? I mean if it were Mark Brunell throwing picks late in the game, he would be crucified! Since it's Campbell, you call it growing pains. How long until y'all begin to expect more from him?

[akhhorus]

That makes sense. However, if that's the case, then that would make him 0-9 in games which the Redskins are behind. That's not what you want to see either.

Its still a simplistic comment you have there(beyond the fact that you can't show that they were behind in everyone of those games). Beyond all the factors in the passing game, there's all the factors from the rest of the team. Holding Campbell responsible for failing to win every time he's thrown 30+ times is ridiculous unless you want to show the situation in all those games. What is the point of your posting this, but to try and sow some problems and complaints about Campbell on this board?

1 more question for y'all..........

How long until y'all begin to hold Campbell more accountable? I mean if it were Mark Brunell throwing picks late in the game, he would be crucified! Since it's Campbell, you call it growing pains. How long until y'all begin to expect more from him?

Considering that Campbell done nothing but improve as a QB in the year as the starter, I don't see how the question of how much patience the fans have left is in order.

[PennSkinsFan]

Its still a simplistic comment you have there(beyond the fact that you can't show that they were behind in everyone of those games). Beyond all the factors in the passing game, there's all the factors from the rest of the team. Holding Campbell responsible for failing to win every time he's thrown 30+ times is ridiculous unless you want to show the situation in all those games. What is the point of your posting this, but to try and sow some problems and complaints about Campbell on this board?



Considering that Campbell done nothing but improve as a QB in the year as the starter, I don't see how the question of how much patience the fans have left is in order.
Agreed with Akh's comments. Jason has led this team on some beautiful drives, he is struggling to close the deal right now. BUT overall, JC has taken some pretty significant progress. JC is partially responsible with a bad pass, Santana Moss is hugely responsible with two drops and a fumble. Portis is hugely responsible for 2 fumbles. The defense played incredible today. Without those turnovers, we could have likely whipped this team.

[give_portis_the_rock]

People always make waaaaaaaay too much of this stat and its brother, total rushing attempts.

You know what you do if you're down late in the game? Pass every play. You know what usually happens to teams that are down late in the game? They lose.

Vice-versa is true for running the ball.

Then why can't WE stop the teams (the many many teams) who have trailed us late in the game and are forced to just chuck it? :(

[Biggie]

How long until y'all begin to hold Campbell more accountable? I mean if it were Mark Brunell throwing picks late in the game, he would be crucified! Since it's Campbell, you call it growing pains. How long until y'all begin to expect more from him?
For Campbell, we call them growing pains because that's what they are.

[ImRickJamesB]

Considering that Campbell done nothing but improve as a QB in the year as the starter, I don't see how the question of how much patience the fans have left is in order.

I don't know...... I guess I just don't see 5 turnovers in the last 2 games as improvement...... I mean he threw a pick inside the redzone late in last weeks game...... Then he improved this week by doing it twice? huh?

[akhhorus]

I don't know...... I guess I just don't see 5 turnovers in the last 2 games as improvement...... I mean he threw a pick inside the redzone late in last weeks game...... Then he improved this week by doing it twice? huh?

Again: you're being very simplistic. Campbell has clearly improved as a QB in the year as the starter. Just because he threw late picks in the last two games ignores the fact that he has put in a couple very nice performances in those same games. If you're just looking for a reason to dump on Campbell, your ultra simplistic complaint is an obvious way to go. But it makes no sense--unless you're just trolling(which I think you're doing).

[Biggie]

I don't know...... I guess I just don't see 5 turnovers in the last 2 games as improvement...... I mean he threw a pick inside the redzone late in last weeks game...... Then he improved this week by doing it twice? huh?
He improved a lot more in this game than Romo did in his five-interception one.

Oh, but I forgot! Homo's better than Brett Favre and Peyton Manning combined, plus the fact that he craps 24 karat gold.

[silverspring]

For Campbell, we call them growing pains because that's what they are.


I agree with this point of view and the fact that we are throwing because we are always coming from behind. Even with all the passing we still rushed 31 times for 120 yards, so it wasn't like we were totally unbalanced.

I am really aggravated where the mistakes are occurring but the fact is that Campbell is still a young qb. I expect him to make mistakes and it wasn't like his game was all negative he did a lot of great things. He does need to improve though. I have a much easier time targeting our elite veteran professionals like portis and moss who are playing like rookies dropping balls and fumbling.

[44FAN]

Again: you're being very simplistic. Campbell has clearly improved as a QB in the year as the starter. Just because he threw late picks in the last two games ignores the fact that he has put in a couple very nice performances in those same games. If you're just looking for a reason to dump on Campbell, your ultra simplistic complaint is an obvious way to go. But it makes no sense--unless you're just trolling(which I think you're doing).

Yeah, I have no complaints with Campbell. He torched two pretty good defenses the last couple of weeks. I have noticed (actually my brother mentioned this) is when he drops back and sets his feet, he's pretty deadly. You know it's going to be a completion (or dropped pass :rolleyes: )

When he's scrambling around or having to make decisions on the fly he breaks down a bit. This comes with playing, ALOT. The game will start to slow down for him and he'll get better. His upside is huge. Now if we only had an offensive line that could protect him better....

[jaylen]

Agreed with Akh's comments. Jason has led this team on some beautiful drives, he is struggling to close the deal right now. BUT overall, JC has taken some pretty significant progress. JC is partially responsible with a bad pass, Santana Moss is hugely responsible with two drops and a fumble. Portis is hugely responsible for 2 fumbles. The defense played incredible today. Without those turnovers, we could have likely whipped this team.

and the Cowboys and the Giants and the Packers.

I agree with your take here.

The coulda,shoulda, woulda is getting old though.We basically beat a team physically today only to come up short on the scoreboard again .By my count we've lost 1 game physically.

I just wonder some times how would Romo be doing if he had our wr's. Or conversely how would JC be doing with a wideout like TO.

[Meatsnack]

I have an idea: what if 6 turnovers had more to do with losing this game than Campbell throwing the ball 30+ times? Four fumbles in the first half don't have much to do with the pass-happy play calling in the second half.

Campbell does have to be accountable for his turnovers just lilke every other player. Even with that in hand, however, Campbell was clearly the best player on the field in the burgundy and gold today. Santana Moss has scored a lot more for the other guys this season than for us. Clinton and Ladell taking turns fumbling away games isn't his fault. Drops from balls put in the grill of receivers isn't his fault. Crappy lineplay isn't his fault. Throwing ints in the 4th quarter is bad. Muffed holds in the 4th quarter of the playoffs are worse.

[BigCountry]

That makes sense. However, if that's the case, then that would make him 0-9 in games which the Redskins are behind. That's not what you want to see either.

1 more question for y'all..........

How long until y'all begin to hold Campbell more accountable? I mean if it were Mark Brunell throwing picks late in the game, he would be crucified! Since it's Campbell, you call it growing pains. How long until y'all begin to expect more from him?

Campbell was accountable for two things today. Blowing the game at the end, and putting the team in a situation where there's a game to blow. Yes he's accountable but a Tony Romo and a Tom Brady have come around twice in the past decade or so. Pretty much everyone else has gone through the same thing. The Redskins went into the year built around their running game and this was supposed to limit what we were going to ask Jason to do. The O-line looses two starters which were also their best run blockers and the running game cannot be a consistant fallback for Campbell. He has less then 20 career starts and has almost single handedly carried the offense the last 3 weeks, without the running game the offense hangs its hat on and today, without 3 of the 4 recievers he went into training camp with. There's no excuse for the INT's he made today but whoever is expecting such an inexperienced QB to magicaly carry an offense which now has moderate talent at best, without making mistakes is living in a dream world. This is life with most young QB's. Show me a QB under the age of 25 with less then 20 starts that has only blown 2 games with INT's and I'll show you Madden 08. This is reality and this is where we are right now. We're not gonna have a miracle team that comes out of nowhere and wins a superbowl so excuse the Redskins for not being able to do something that has been done 3 times in 17 years. (Rams, Ravens, Pats in 01) We've made mistake after mistake as far as building up a winner goes and have been miserable for a decade and a half and I'm sorry to be the one that has to break this to you guys but if indeed we have the QB in place, if indeed we truely have as much young talent as we've had since Gibbs' first tour of duty, there aren't going to be any miracles.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

and the Cowboys and the Giants and the Packers.

I agree with your take here.

The coulda,shoulda, woulda is getting old though.We basically beat a team physically today only to come up short on the scoreboard again .By my count we've lost 1 game physically.

I just wonder some times how would Romo be doing if he had our wr's. Or conversely how would JC be doing with a wideout like TO.

Anyone else watching the Bronco receivers making huge plays to help out Cutler today? We have not been getting much of that from our receiving corp this year.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Campbell was accountable for two things today. Blowing the game at the end, and putting the team in a situation where there's a game to blow. Yes he's accountable but a Tony Romo and a Tom Brady have come around twice in the past decade or so. Pretty much everyone else has gone through the same thing. The Redskins went into the year built around their running game and this was supposed to limit what we were going to ask Jason to do. The O-line looses two starters which were also their best run blockers and the running game cannot be a consistant fallback for Campbell. He has less then 20 career starts and has almost single handedly carried the offense the last 3 weeks, without the running game the offense hangs its hat on and today, without 3 of the 4 recievers he went into training camp with. There's no excuse for the INT's he made today but whoever is expecting such an inexperienced QB to magicaly carry an offense which now has moderate talent at best, without making mistakes is living in a dream world. This is life with most young QB's. Show me a QB under the age of 25 with less then 20 starts that has only blown 2 games with INT's and I'll show you Madden 08. This is reality and this is where we are right now. We're not gonna have a miracle team that comes out of nowhere and wins a superbowl so excuse the Redskins for not being able to do something that has been done 3 times in 17 years. (Rams, Ravens, Pats in 01) We've made mistake after mistake as far as building up a winner goes and have been miserable for a decade and a half and I'm sorry to be the one that has to break this to you guys but if indeed we have the QB in place, if indeed we truely have as much young talent as we've had since Gibbs' first tour of duty, there aren't going to be any miracles.
Those two should not be mentioned in the same sentence. At least yet. And hopefully not ever.

[BigCountry]

Those two should not be mentioned in the same sentence. At least yet. And hopefully not ever.

I agree with you but unfourtunately for us, Romo is doing some amazing things and while he isn't Tom Brady yet and may never be that good, he's an example of a guy who came out of nowhere, with no game experience and became an elite QB. I'd love to come up with a valid reason why he won't continue to play at high level for a long time but there isn't one. It's not even like he's coming in and managing the game while making a big play here and there, he is the main reason they are 10-1. With all due respect the Player, Romo is extending his status as an elite wide reciever.

[FunBunch5]

That makes sense. However, if that's the case, then that would make him 0-9 in games which the Redskins are behind. That's not what you want to see either.

1 more question for y'all..........

How long until y'all begin to hold Campbell more accountable? I mean if it were Mark Brunell throwing picks late in the game, he would be crucified! Since it's Campbell, you call it growing pains. How long until y'all begin to expect more from him?

Jason has played the equivalent of 1 year, Mark Brunell was a 13 yr vet, so for obvious reasons Jason is going to have more rope. I didn't see any Cowboy fans screaming to bench Romo after he threw 5 int in a game this year...However, if Quincy Carter was your QB, I bet you would have been calling for him to be benched.

[FunBunch5]

I agree with you but unfourtunately for us, Romo is doing some amazing things and while he isn't Tom Brady yet and may never be that good, he's an example of a guy who came out of nowhere, with no game experience and became an elite QB. I'd love to come up with a valid reason why he won't continue to play at high level for a long time but there isn't one. It's not even like he's coming in and managing the game while making a big play here and there, he is the main reason they are 10-1. With all due respect the Player, Romo is extending his status as an elite wide reciever.

I know Romo is the real deal, but you throw Romo on the Skins and I would contend our record is not much better, if better at all. Romo has a HOF receiver and great supporting receivers as well as a very good Oline. Jason has none of that. Once we get some support for Jason our offense will be excellent.

[ImRickJamesB]

I have an idea: what if 6 turnovers had more to do with losing this game than Campbell throwing the ball 30+ times? Four fumbles in the first half don't have much to do with the pass-happy play calling in the second half.

Campbell does have to be accountable for his turnovers just lilke every other player. Even with that in hand, however, Campbell was clearly the best player on the field in the burgundy and gold today. Santana Moss has scored a lot more for the other guys this season than for us. Clinton and Ladell taking turns fumbling away games isn't his fault. Drops from balls put in the grill of receivers isn't his fault. Crappy lineplay isn't his fault. Throwing ints in the 4th quarter is bad. Muffed holds in the 4th quarter of the playoffs are worse.

No doubt the turnovers were to blame for this loss..... But Campbell had the majority of them!

Crappy line play? Campbell's only been sacked 17 times this season...... That's one of the lowest sack totals in the NFL.....

Fumbles? Campbell leads the way with 11 in 11 games (lost 7).
The Lions Jon Kitna also has 11 fumbles (5 lost) this season, but he's been sacked 44 times!

Ladell and Portis fumbling games away? :smash:
Take all the other offensive starters - Portis, Betts, Moss, ARE, Sellers, and Cooley - they have 13 Fumbles combined, only 2 less than Campbell by himself!
Look at the Eagles game, Redskins have a chance to drive for the winning score, Campbell fumbles, and the Eagles score, game over...
Dallas Game: Redskins driving for the go ahead/winning score, Campbell throws a INT, game over...
Tampa Game: Redskins driving for a winning score, Campbell throws a pick, game over... BUT WAIT.... They get another chance! Redskins driving for the winning score, Campbell throws a pick, game over.........
I dont see how you can blame Portis and Betts for these losses.........

Dropped passes?? There have been some drops, but I've also seen just as many times when receivers have made unexpected catches on balls that were thrown either too high, or too far behind them, or both.....

Then there's the INT vs. TD ratio: Campbell has 12 TD's versus 10 INT's, factor in the 7 lost Fumbles, and you're looking at a ratio of 2 Turnovers for every Touchdown......

I'm not saying it's time to give up on Campbell! That would be stupid, it's only his first full season as a starter. What I am saying, is I think y'all should hold him more accountable for his turnovers, and the fact that sooner than later, he's gonna have to start winning games for you, instead of giving them away at the end. He needs to start stepping it up (imo)!
I saw the QB approval rating thread/poll, and I was shocked that everyone (but me) gave him a 100% approval. I dont think he's stunk this season, mediocre comes to mind though...
:Peace:

[Biggie]

Why is the Cowboys fan trying to convince us that Jason Campbell sucks?

I say we ban him.

[ImRickJamesB]

I know Romo is the real deal, but you throw Romo on the Skins and I would contend our record is not much better, if better at all. Romo has a HOF receiver and great supporting receivers as well as a very good Oline. Jason has none of that. Once we get some support for Jason our offense will be excellent.

I totally disagree!

Put Romo on the Skins, and they're 8-3 or 9-2.......

Put Campbell on the Cowboys, and they're 6-5 or 7-4......

[akhhorus]

No doubt the turnovers were to blame for this loss..... But Campbell had the majority of them!

Crappy line play? Campbell's only been sacked 17 times this season...... That's one of the lowest sack totals in the NFL.....

Fumbles? Campbell leads the way with 11 in 11 games (lost 7).
The Lions Jon Kitna also has 11 fumbles (5 lost) this season, but he's been sacked 44 times!

Ladell and Portis fumbling games away? :smash:
Take all the other offensive starters - Portis, Betts, Moss, ARE, Sellers, and Cooley - they have 13 Fumbles combined, only 2 less than Campbell by himself!
Look at the Eagles game, Redskins have a chance to drive for the winning score, Campbell fumbles, and the Eagles score, game over...
Dallas Game: Redskins driving for the go ahead/winning score, Campbell throws a INT, game over...
Tampa Game: Redskins driving for a winning score, Campbell throws a pick, game over... BUT WAIT.... They get another chance! Redskins driving for the winning score, Campbell throws a pick, game over.........
I dont see how you can blame Portis and Betts for these losses.........

Dropped passes?? There have been some drops, but I've also seen just as many times when receivers have made unexpected catches on balls that were thrown either too high, or too far behind them, or both.....

Then there's the INT vs. TD ratio: Campbell has 12 TD's versus 10 INT's, factor in the 7 lost Fumbles, and you're looking at a ratio of 2 Turnovers for every Touchdown......

I'm not saying it's time to give up on Campbell! That would be stupid, it's only his first full season as a starter. What I am saying, is I think y'all should hold him more accountable for his turnovers, and the fact that sooner than later, he's gonna have to start winning games for you, instead of giving them away at the end. He needs to start stepping it up (imo)!
I saw the QB approval rating thread/poll, and I was shocked that everyone (but me) gave him a 100% approval. I dont think he's stunk this season, mediocre comes to mind though...
:Peace:

You're still not making any sense here, and I more firmly think that you're just trolling here, trying to cause trouble. You have no coherent thoughts here and are just throwing out stats without looking at context.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Why is the Cowboys fan trying to convince us that Jason Campbell sucks?

I say we ban him.

As a Girls fan, his time will come.

There will come a sweet day in the not so distant future when I sit back in my recliner or at Fed. Ex. with my #17 jersey on and listen to my friends who are fans of other teams say, it must be so easy to sit there knowing Campbell's throwing 28 on the board game in and game out.

[Biggie]

You're still not making any sense here, and I more firmly think that you're just trolling here, trying to cause trouble. You have no coherent thoughts here and are just throwing out stats without looking at context.
:banhim:

[greatest2]

:banhim:

motion to vote

[Biggie]

motion to vote
Yea!

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Here is something that is not being considered in this thread with regard to Campbell. I know I'm spitting in the wind here with whom I am directing this comment, but there are many reasons why your comments make no sense. Here are a few:
1. For most stretches he hasn't just been good, he has been top 10 in the league good, if not better.
2. The hiccups he is having can be corrected. He works harder than anyone else on the team, so I have no doubt he will correct them.
3. There is a long history of HOF QB's having the same problem. Favre and Elway come immediately to mind.
4. He has had untimely turnovers, but we are not talking about a turnover machine here. A turnover machine would be a guy who has 22+ INT's at the end of the season. He actually is careful with the ball with a few exceptions.

[ImRickJamesB]

You're still not making any sense here, and I more firmly think that you're just trolling here, trying to cause trouble. You have no coherent thoughts here and are just throwing out stats without looking at context.

I dont know Akh, it seems to me that you have nothing to counter what I've said, so you just say I'm not making any sense, and the stats have no context....

Context? Like I said, Campbell has 11 Fumbles, in the context of being sacked only 17 times......

Context? Campbell has 11 Fumbles, in the context of 6 other offensive starters having 13 combined....

Ect., Ect......

I'm not saying he wont be a good QB eventually! And I'm not saying he sucks now! He's very cool in the pocket, he has ideal arm strength, and seems to have won the confidence of his teammates. I think he played a pretty darn good game against the Cowboys, but in the context of an entire season, he's not playing well enough to warrant zero criticism. Especially after todays game! I'm just saying he's not there yet, and he should be held a little more accountable for the overall record.

[ImRickJamesB]

:banhim:

I dont see why.........

It's not like I'm coming here and just saying "Campbell sucks!"......
In fact, I've said the exact opposite.....

I would understand you feeling this way, if I had started a thread saying "Romo > Campbell", but I didn't even bring Romo into this.

I'm talking rationally and factually about things that only pertain to the Redskins, and this is a Redskins forum, so.......... This is the best Redskins forum, most fans here like to discuss their opinions in detail, as do I. So if I want to talk about something related to Redskins football, where else am I supposed to go? Extremeskins? I'd rather not.........

I come in peace, so deal with it, or just dont reply to this thread...........:)

[Biggie]

You're trolling, or if you don't know what that means, you're trying to needle us into either ripping into Campbell or getting irritated at you for trying to needle us into ripping into Campbell. The reason we're not criticizing him like we did Brunell is because he has a thousand times more talent than anyone other QB of the future we've brought in since the 80s, and we're sick of switching QBs every year. Give him time.

[esmith1790]

i believe that accurracy is the main reason, when the field is stretched and defenses are somewhat relaxed, He can move the ball up and down the field. However, when the field is compressed to the redzone area, the defense is more compact, requiring the passes to spot on. i think this might be a part of the reason.

[ImRickJamesB]

Here is something that is not being considered in this thread with regard to Campbell. I know I'm spitting in the wind here with whom I am directing this comment, but there are many reasons why your comments make no sense. Here are a few:
1. For most stretches he hasn't just been good, he has been top 10 in the league good, if not better.
2. The hiccups he is having can be corrected. He works harder than anyone else on the team, so I have no doubt he will correct them.
3. There is a long history of HOF QB's having the same problem. Favre and Elway come immediately to mind.
4. He has had untimely turnovers, but we are not talking about a turnover machine here. A turnover machine would be a guy who has 22+ INT's at the end of the season. He actually is careful with the ball with a few exceptions.

1. Name 21 QB's that Campbell's better than.........

2. I agree, it's not too late for him to make corrections.

3. There's a lot more QB's who started slow and never got much better, but I get your point.

4. Well Campbell already has 17 turnovers, so I'm pretty sure he'll meet your qualifications as a "turnover machine".

[ImRickJamesB]

i believe that accurracy is the main reason, when the field is stretched and defenses are somewhat relaxed, He can move the ball up and down the field. However, when the field is compressed to the redzone area, the defense is more compact, requiring the passes to spot on. i think this might be a part of the reason.

I totally agree! His main problem is accuracy......

[Biggie]

If you two keep this up, I'm starting a Romo criticism thread. Just reading this on this site is revolting.

[esmith1790]

If you two keep this up, I'm starting a Romo criticism thread. Just reading this on this site is revolting.

sure, fumbles cost him last year and in the playoffs, 5 INTs against any other team besides the bills and it is 99% a loss. Good teams have to beat the bad teams soundly. We can get caught playing down to other teams levels. Our slow starts have hurt us.

[ImRickJamesB]

You're trolling, or if you don't know what that means, you're trying to needle us into either ripping into Campbell or getting irritated at you for trying to needle us into ripping into Campbell. The reason we're not criticizing him like we did Brunell is because he has a thousand times more talent than anyone other QB of the future we've brought in since the 80s, and we're sick of switching QBs every year. Give him time.

I promise, my motivation is NOT to irritate you!!

However, I dont understand how y'all can turn a blind eye to his short-comings this season.....

Then again, I do understand the optimism, and also that it's very important to the Redskins organization that Campbell turns out to be a franchise QB.

If I were the Redskins GM, finding a franchise QB would still be my #1 priority, because Campbell hasn't shown that he's it yet. IMO, a team cant waste time hoping that they've found that franchise QB, just because of his high cost on draft day (P. Ramsey). Until you know you've found your Tony Romo or Tom Brady, the search must go on! Now if Campbell continues to improve and shows he's definitely that guy, then and only then, do you call off the search for your next franchise QB. That position is just too important to leave it to chance.

BTW, as a Cowboys fan, I can totally understand! I remember not too long ago hoping like hell that Drew Henson was our savior! Who knew it was the guy who had never played a down in the NFL....... We lucked out and found Romo... Otherwise I'd still be saying the same thing about Dallas.

[greatest2]

I promise, my motivation is NOT to irritate you!!

However, I dont understand how y'all can turn a blind eye to his short-comings this season.....

Then again, I do understand the optimism, and also that it's very important to the Redskins organization that Campbell turns out to be a franchise QB.

If I were the Redskins GM, finding a franchise QB would still be my #1 priority, because Campbell hasn't shown that he's it yet. IMO, a team cant waste time hoping that they've found that franchise QB, just because of his high cost on draft day (P. Ramsey). Until you know you've found your Tony Romo or Tom Brady, the search must go on! Now if Campbell continues to improve and shows he's definitely that guy, then and only then, do you call off the search for your next franchise QB. That position is just too important to leave it to chance.

right cause you guys looked for a franchise guy while leaving t.homo on the bench for what, like 2 years. Then before the season starter you didn't bring anybody in to compete with him although you hadn't givin him a contract extension.

You make no sense, on one hand you say you have to keep picking up QB's til you find a quick fix like Big Ben, Tom Brady, and on the other hand you have nothing to say of QB's who took time such as favre, elway, P.manning, etc. you own organization didn't keep plugging away with qb's, they hung in there with homo.

Dude, jus be gone:banhim:







oh yea..........:dalassuk:

[Biggie]

I promise, my motivation is NOT to irritate you!!

However, I dont understand how y'all can turn a blind eye to his short-comings this season.....

Then again, I do understand the optimism, and also that it's very important to the Redskins organization that Campbell turns out to be a franchise QB.

If I were the Redskins GM, finding a franchise QB would still be my #1 priority, because Campbell hasn't shown that he's it yet. IMO, a team cant waste time hoping that they've found that franchise QB, just because of his high cost on draft day (P. Ramsey). Until you know you've found your Tony Romo or Tom Brady, the search must go on! Now if Campbell continues to improve and shows he's definitely that guy, then and only then, do you call off the search for your next franchise QB. That position is just too important to leave it to chance.

BTW, as a Cowboys fan, I can totally understand! I remember not too long ago hoping like hell that Drew Henson was our savior! Who knew it was the guy who had never played a down in the NFL....... We lucked out and found Romo... Otherwise I'd still be saying the same thing about Dallas.
So now you want us to waste draft picks and resources looking for another franchise QB when it looks like we've just found one?

Oh, and you should definitely be banned for mentioning Tony Romo and Tom Brady in the same post, let alone the same sentence. No comparison.

[ImRickJamesB]

right cause you guys looked for a franchise guy while leaving t.homo on the bench for what, like 2 years. Then before the season starter you didn't bring anybody in to compete with him although you hadn't givin him a contract extension.

You make no sense, on one hand you say you have to keep picking up QB's til you find a quick fix like Big Ben, Tom Brady, and on the other hand you have nothing to say of QB's who took time such as favre, elway, P.manning, etc. you own organization didn't keep plugging away with qb's, they hung in there with homo.

Dude, jus be gone:banhim:







oh yea..........:dalassuk:

I'm not saying that's what Dallas did, I'm saying that's what I would do. Like I said, I'd still be saying the same thing about the Cowboys, if we hadn't lucked out with Romo.

I think Romo showed enough in his first half-season to warrant being the automatic starter in 2007.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

1. Name 21 QB's that Campbell's better than.........
At many times this season, everyone not named Brady, Favre, P. Manning, Romo, Rothlisberger and Gerrard. The only other one close to this list this season but is not on it is Anderson. None of the following have looked consistently better than Campbell this year: E. Manning, McNabb, Cutler, Grossman, Rivers, Young, Brees, Gracia, Kitna, Palmer, anyone QB'ing Carolina or Miami or the Jets or KC or SF or the Raiders or the Rams or the Vikings or the Texans. I know I am forgetting a few teams, but think about it. I'm not wrong on that.

2. I agree, it's not too late for him to make corrections.

3. There's a lot more QB's who started slow and never got much better, but I get your point.
He is not starting off slow. That is where you are making your mistake. He is having a problem with a certain point of his game, meaning almost everything else he is excelling at. That puts him in rare air not the group you are talking about.

4. Well Campbell already has 17 turnovers, so I'm pretty sure he'll meet your qualifications as a "turnover machine".
I said INT's, so no he won't.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

i believe that accurracy is the main reason, when the field is stretched and defenses are somewhat relaxed, He can move the ball up and down the field. However, when the field is compressed to the redzone area, the defense is more compact, requiring the passes to spot on. i think this might be a part of the reason.

Our redzone problems have a lot to do with personnel as well. Teams are focused on Cooley and the running game. Timing routes to shorter receivers often don't work in the compacted zone so that means you need a longer developing play that allows your fast, short receivers to break free from the defense. Think roll out passes like in Philly. Conversly, if you have the taller receiver you can throw the fade and then really screw with the DB by throwing the fade stop. Both of those routes are 3 step drops. We don't really have that luxry with the personnel we have.

[Skinz4lyfe]

I promise, my motivation is NOT to irritate you!!

However, I dont understand how y'all can turn a blind eye to his short-comings this season.....

Then again, I do understand the optimism, and also that it's very important to the Redskins organization that Campbell turns out to be a franchise QB.

If I were the Redskins GM, finding a franchise QB would still be my #1 priority, because Campbell hasn't shown that he's it yet. IMO, a team cant waste time hoping that they've found that franchise QB, just because of his high cost on draft day (P. Ramsey). Until you know you've found your Tony Romo or Tom Brady, the search must go on! Now if Campbell continues to improve and shows he's definitely that guy, then and only then, do you call off the search for your next franchise QB. That position is just too important to leave it to chance.

BTW, as a Cowboys fan, I can totally understand! I remember not too long ago hoping like hell that Drew Henson was our savior! Who knew it was the guy who had never played a down in the NFL....... We lucked out and found Romo... Otherwise I'd still be saying the same thing about Dallas.


I was with you up until a certain point. Let's look at things realistically. The Cowboys offense has more weapons then the Redskins offense right now. Your O-line is better than ours. We're down to our 3rd string RT and 2nd string RG. Our smurf WRs have been injured off and on all year (Moss, Randle El and Thrash). I know you've been missing Ms. Glenn all year but Crayton has stepped up nicely at times. We're now working w/receivers who weren't even on the team when the year started (McCardell and Caldwell). Cooley is the only threat that we've had that has remained healthy to date. Witten is one of the best TEs in the game. From last year to this year to date, the whole body of work has been remarkedly better for young Jason. Besides, we have bigger issues than developing a young QB (i.e. finding another big receiver and pass rusher). We're good at the QB position. He needs to continue working w/his receiving corp and gain experience.

[Biggie]

I'm not saying that's what Dallas did, I'm saying that's what I would do. Like I said, I'd still be saying the same thing about the Cowboys, if we hadn't lucked out with Romo.

I think Romo showed enough in his first half-season to warrant being the automatic starter in 2007.
And Campbell is showing enough to be the automatic starter now.

[ImRickJamesB]

So now you want us to waste draft picks and resources looking for another franchise QB when it looks like we've just found one?

Oh, and you should definitely be banned for mentioning Tony Romo and Tom Brady in the same post, let alone the same sentence. No comparison.

This is where we differ..... I dont think Campbell has shown enough yet to say he looks like a franchise QB... So yes, I think y'all should keep looking.....

And like I said, if Campbell continues to improve and really starts to step it up, then you can call off the search and be content/happy.......

I'm not saying use your 1st pick on a QB (unless you think he's a stud), but yeah if there's a QB that the Skins like in the draft, then they should grab him! What's the worst that can happen? Maybe you wind up with two franchise QB's............

[ImRickJamesB]

And Campbell is showing enough to be the automatic starter now.

I agree, continue to start Campbell, keep hoping he turns out to be great, he's definitely the best option as of now, but still start planning for the worst case scenario immediately.

[colkurtz]

I'm much more worried about how Moss and Portis are playing like crap - dropping balls and fumbling a lot.

BL is whether either will be on this team next year.

JC will be the starter next season no matter who is coach; the other two may not.

[ImRickJamesB]

I was with you up until a certain point. Let's look at things realistically. The Cowboys offense has more weapons then the Redskins offense right now. Your O-line is better than ours. We're down to our 3rd string RT and 2nd string RG. Our smurf WRs have been injured off and on all year (Moss, Randle El and Thrash). I know you've been missing Ms. Glenn all year but Crayton has stepped up nicely at times. We're now working w/receivers who weren't even on the team when the year started (McCardell and Caldwell). Cooley is the only threat that we've had that has remained healthy to date. Witten is one of the best TEs in the game. From last year to this year to date, the whole body of work has been remarkedly better for young Jason. Besides, we have bigger issues than developing a young QB (i.e. finding another big receiver and pass rusher). We're good at the QB position. He needs to continue working w/his receiving corp and gain experience.

Good post, but I wasn't comparing him to Romo and the Boys.

Injuries dont have much to do with him being inaccurate, or fumbles, or Ints....

I do agree, (to be SB contenders) y'all need a premier WR, and a pass-rush specialist, but Jason doesn't look anywhere near an elite QB yet, so IMO you still need a QB, until Campbell proves otherwise.

I mean he's gonna be the starter for the next couple years anyway..... Great QB's very rarely hit free-agency, that means finding one in the draft. This will give him a chance to show he's the man, I just dont think you should put all your eggs in that one basket.......

Gotta be optimistic and hope for the best, but plan for that worst case scenario..........

[ImRickJamesB]

At many times this season, everyone not named Brady, Favre, P. Manning, Romo, Rothlisberger and Gerrard. The only other one close to this list this season but is not on it is Anderson. None of the following have looked consistently better than Campbell this year: E. Manning, McNabb, Cutler, Grossman, Rivers, Young, Brees, Gracia, Kitna, Palmer, anyone QB'ing Carolina or Miami or the Jets or KC or SF or the Raiders or the Rams or the Vikings or the Texans. I know I am forgetting a few teams, but think about it. I'm not wrong on that.

I'm only doing this because you're pretty much forcing me, by make asinine statements like "Campbell's a top 10 QB"...

Here's some QB's that I know are better than Campbell right now. Not saying I'd take all these vets over a young Campbell, but they're all better than him at the moment...

(In no particular order)

1.Brady
2.Favre
3.Romo
4.Rothlisberger
5.Gerrard
6.Palmer
7.Brees
8.Kitna
9.P.Manning
10.Anderson
11.Hasselback
12.Cutler
13.Schaub
14.Bulger
15.McNabb
16.Warner
17.Garcia

QB's that may, or may not, be better than Campbell
E.Manning
V.Young
A.Smith
Culpepper
Grossman
Rivers
JP Lossman
Edwards
Pennington
Lienart


He is not starting off slow. That is where you are making your mistake. He is having a problem with a certain point of his game, meaning almost everything else he is excelling at. That puts him in rare air not the group you are talking about.

Ehh, semantics...........


I said INT's, so no he won't.

Fumbles hurt just as bad as Int's.......... Like I said, semantics.......

[JRudy]

(In no particular order)

10.Anderson
11.Hasselback
12.Cutler
13.Schaub
14.Bulger
15.McNabb
16.Warner
17.Garcia
.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, to all of those. Are you kidding me? JC is young and still learning, you forget he's in his first year starting. I gaurentee you, if your "knight in shining armor" Romo had recievers fumbling the ball and RB's doing the same he wouldn't be the same guy. The veterans around JC need to pick him up and carry him, kind of like Pittsburgh did with Big Ben years back. Very little of the blame falls on Jason. His veteran team mates are letting him down. Theres no excuse fo rhte dropped passes and fumbleitis this team has. JC is the future, and im pumped about it.

/Thread

[colkurtz]

Even total chump QBs [who were drafted high] like Heath Shuler went 25+ games before they were sidelined.

My contention is that Gibbs should have brought JC into play earlier last season instead of waiting until the last 7 games to do so.

We have the rest of this season and all of next season to see how JC progresses. Frankly the number of dropped passes from him would have won us some games and certainly helped us score much more.

JC is progressing nicely, while our #1 Wr has had a completely terrible year. Our #2 WR is hurt. Our #3 WR was invisible before he was hurt - he will never play another game in the burgundy and gold. #4 Wr is hurt.

Get JC a big, possession WR who can get open and catch and then we'll see how good or bad JC really is. Let him audible and do the no-huddle all game. Get him a consistent RB. Then we'll know.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'm only doing this because you're pretty much forcing me, by make asinine statements like "Campbell's a top 10 QB"...

Here's some QB's that I know are better than Campbell right now. Not saying I'd take all these vets over a young Campbell, but they're all better than him at the moment...

(In no particular order)

1.Brady
2.Favre
3.Romo
4.Rothlisberger
5.Gerrard
6.Palmer
7.Brees
8.Kitna
9.P.Manning
10.Anderson
11.Hasselback
12.Cutler
13.Schaub
14.Bulger
15.McNabb
16.Warner
17.Garcia

QB's that may, or may not, be better than Campbell
E.Manning
V.Young
A.Smith
Culpepper
Grossman
Rivers
JP Lossman
Edwards
Pennington
Lienart

First, thanks for biting. I did not say that Campbell was always a top 10 QB. I said at many times, particularly moving the ball into the redzone, he is top 10. Second, do some research before you put together a list. Statistically from your first 17, these QB's are all on par with Campbell:
Kitna, Cutler, Brees, Schaub and Warner. Bulger wishes he had Campbell's numbers.

Palmer and McNabb have been as up and down as a roller coaster ride, so sorry but neither have better THIS YEAR. I'll slow down again for you, this isn't a debate about who will be better or anything else, I can only judge Campbell on what he has produced this year against how other QB's are playing THIS YEAR.


Ehh, semantics...........

How is this semantics? A QB who does a bunch of things well and one thing poorly is more valuable than a QB who struggles at multiple things. If that isn't clear to you, I can't help you any further.


Fumbles hurt just as bad as Int's.......... Like I said, semantics.......

I know that fumbles hurt, but every QB has lost fumbles, which generally has more to do with the line than the QB.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Why are you people still discussing this with him? Just tell him that Campbell sucks, should be benched, and that Romo is your God so he will be happy and leave.

[akhhorus]

I dont know Akh, it seems to me that you have nothing to counter what I've said, so you just say I'm not making any sense, and the stats have no context....

In football, all stats have context. This isn't baseball.

And I've written 2 counters to your nonsense, with no comment from you so far in response.

Context? Like I said, Campbell has 11 Fumbles, in the context of being sacked only 17 times......

Thats not context.

Context? Campbell has 11 Fumbles, in the context of 6 other offensive starters having 13 combined....

And? Again: Thats not context.

Ect., Ect......

Habla Ingles?

I'm not saying he wont be a good QB eventually! And I'm not saying he sucks now! He's very cool in the pocket, he has ideal arm strength, and seems to have won the confidence of his teammates. I think he played a pretty darn good game against the Cowboys, but in the context of an entire season, he's not playing well enough to warrant zero criticism. Especially after todays game! I'm just saying he's not there yet, and he should be held a little more accountable for the overall record.

I don't think you know what the word context means. And no one has said he deserves zero criticism. Its just your "criticisms" are nonsensical and take no account of the context of the situations. Your first comment in this thread was about Campbell being a loser when throwing over 30 passes in a game(which is ridiculous) and after that got no traction, you switched to another brain dropping based around how many turnovers Campbell has. You're either drunk(when you wrote this) or just incapable of coherent thought or just trolling trying to cause trouble(which makes me think that you're worried about facing Campbell--something I've heard from every Cowboys' fan I know after the Skins/Boys game) .

[Spence]

Gibbs never tells Campbell to go out there and start winging the ball all over the field. Campbell threw a lot against Dallas because they had to keep scoring when the defense gave up 4 touchdown passes. Campbell threw a lot yesterday because Portis and Moss put the team in a hole early. The Redskins throw a lot to catch up, not because Gibbs wants to throw a lot.

[Farmer Ted]

Like my old ball coach used to say..."Three things can happen when you pass the ball. Two of them are bad"

You played for Woody Hayes? Did he ever punch you?

[Meatsnack]

No doubt the turnovers were to blame for this loss..... But Campbell had the majority of them!

Crappy line play? Campbell's only been sacked 17 times this season...... That's one of the lowest sack totals in the NFL.....

Fumbles? Campbell leads the way with 11 in 11 games (lost 7).
The Lions Jon Kitna also has 11 fumbles (5 lost) this season, but he's been sacked 44 times!

Ladell and Portis fumbling games away? :smash:
Take all the other offensive starters - Portis, Betts, Moss, ARE, Sellers, and Cooley - they have 13 Fumbles combined, only 2 less than Campbell by himself!
Look at the Eagles game, Redskins have a chance to drive for the winning score, Campbell fumbles, and the Eagles score, game over...
Dallas Game: Redskins driving for the go ahead/winning score, Campbell throws a INT, game over...
Tampa Game: Redskins driving for a winning score, Campbell throws a pick, game over... BUT WAIT.... They get another chance! Redskins driving for the winning score, Campbell throws a pick, game over.........
I dont see how you can blame Portis and Betts for these losses.........

Dropped passes?? There have been some drops, but I've also seen just as many times when receivers have made unexpected catches on balls that were thrown either too high, or too far behind them, or both.....

Then there's the INT vs. TD ratio: Campbell has 12 TD's versus 10 INT's, factor in the 7 lost Fumbles, and you're looking at a ratio of 2 Turnovers for every Touchdown......

I'm not saying it's time to give up on Campbell! That would be stupid, it's only his first full season as a starter. What I am saying, is I think y'all should hold him more accountable for his turnovers, and the fact that sooner than later, he's gonna have to start winning games for you, instead of giving them away at the end. He needs to start stepping it up (imo)!
I saw the QB approval rating thread/poll, and I was shocked that everyone (but me) gave him a 100% approval. I dont think he's stunk this season, mediocre comes to mind though...
:Peace:So, we have good line play and Campbell just randomly fumbles the ball with no one around him? No, my friend, that is parsing the facts to suit your theory.

Campbell fumbles when hit from his blindside. About half of those were his fault for holding on to the ball too long trying to make something out of nothing. The rest were crappy line play. Jason has been sacked relatively little this year because of heavy use of two TE sets and a very conservative, run-heavy offense for most of the season not due to stellar pass pro.

[ImRickJamesB]

First, thanks for biting. I did not say that Campbell was always a top 10 QB. I said at many times, particularly moving the ball into the redzone, he is top 10.

Yeah, and Rex Grossman was a top 10 QB in the 4th Qtr last night! Also, the game isn't played between the 20's! What matters, is what you do once you get in the redzone.

Second, do some research before you put together a list. Statistically from your first 17, these QB's are all on par with Campbell:
Kitna, Cutler, Brees, Schaub and Warner. Bulger wishes he had Campbell's numbers.



No they're NOT!!!!!! You are the one who needs to do some research!

Campbell's QB Rating - 79.1 (20th in the NFL)

Brees - 85.0
Kitna - 87.4
Cutler - 90.8
Anderson - 89.5
Schaub - 87.3
Warner - 90.8

They're also better in almost every other statistical category, but I'm not gonna list everything, cause you really need to look it up for yourself! Maybe then you wont make this mistake again.........

I shouldn't have put Bulger on that list, but you know as well as I do, Bulger (when healthy!) is much better than Campbell is right now.

Palmer and McNabb have been as up and down as a roller coaster ride, so sorry but neither have better THIS YEAR. I'll slow down again for you, this isn't a debate about who will be better or anything else, I can only judge Campbell on what he has produced this year against how other QB's are playing THIS YEAR.

Both McNabb and Palmer have been having unspectacular seasons, but they've still been better than Campbell THIS YEAR!

McNabb - 87.3 - more yards per game - more TD's - less INT's
Palmer - 90.8 - more yards per game - 21 TD's - 5 More INT's

Furthermore, I dont recall Palmer or McNabb, having 4 consecutive turnovers, on 4 consecutive game winning drives (Campbells last 3 games).

How is this semantics? A QB who does a bunch of things well and one thing poorly is more valuable than a QB who struggles at multiple things. If that isn't clear to you, I can't help you any further.

It's more than 1 little thing. He's too inaccurate, Fumbles too much, and hasn't shown that he can lead his team to victory.

I know that fumbles hurt, but every QB has lost fumbles, which generally has more to do with the line than the QB.

Yeah but not every QB has 11 in 11 games!

Like I said, Kitna also has 11 Fumbles,

but he's been sacked 44 times,

Campbell's only been sacked 17!

That's due to an undeveloped pocket presence, and having too much of a wind-up throwing motion. It can fixed, but he's got to work on his release. He's gotta get the ball out faster.......

[give_portis_the_rock]

Gibbs never tells Campbell to go out there and start winging the ball all over the field. Campbell threw a lot against Dallas because they had to keep scoring when the defense gave up 4 touchdown passes. Campbell threw a lot yesterday because Portis and Moss put the team in a hole early. The Redskins throw a lot to catch up, not because Gibbs wants to throw a lot.

Then why did we run for almost 300 yards against the Jets?
We fell behind early against them as well...
Against Tampa it seemed we went into a "pass every down" offence early in the 2nd half, completely abandoned the running game long before you could say we were "forced" to.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Yeah, and Rex Grossman was a top 10 QB in the 4th Qtr last night! Also, the game isn't played between the 20's! What matters, is what you do once you get in the redzone.





No they're NOT!!!!!! You are the one who needs to do some research!

Campbell's QB Rating - 79.1 (20th in the NFL)

Brees - 85.0
Kitna - 87.4
Cutler - 90.8
Anderson - 89.5
Schaub - 87.3
Warner - 90.8

They're also better in almost every other statistical category, but I'm not gonna list everything, cause you really need to look it up for yourself! Maybe then you wont make this mistake again.........

I shouldn't have put Bulger on that list, but you know as well as I do, Bulger (when healthy!) is much better than Campbell is right now.



Both McNabb and Palmer have been having unspectacular seasons, but they've still been better than Campbell THIS YEAR!

McNabb - 87.3 - more yards per game - more TD's - less INT's
Palmer - 90.8 - more yards per game - 21 TD's - 5 More INT's

Furthermore, I dont recall Palmer or McNabb, having 4 consecutive turnovers, on 4 consecutive game winning drives (Campbells last 3 games).



It's more than 1 little thing. He's too inaccurate, Fumbles too much, and hasn't shown that he can lead his team to victory.



Yeah but not every QB has 11 in 11 games!

Like I said, Kitna also has 11 Fumbles,

but he's been sacked 44 times,

Campbell's only been sacked 17!

That's due to an undeveloped pocket presence, and having too much of a wind-up throwing motion. It can fixed, but he's got to work on his release. He's gotta get the ball out faster.......

The only thing worth replying to is your list since you failed to come up with a decent rebutal on anything else.

When I conducted my research, before you did, it was based on the stats before the update of yesterday's games. It is easy to say a passer with an 85 rating is better than a passer with a 79 rating, but what if Campbell had an 81 rating before the game. Passer rating is subjective.

So let's take a closer look even knowing that Campbell did not have one of his best games yesterday and knowing that next week's stats can be completely different.

By the way, I find it utterly hysterical that you used the word semantics multiple times and then tell me how a passer with an 85 rating is measurably better than a QB with a 79 rating. That is funny.

But let's look.

Cutler has the same amount of yards. Completes 4.5% more passes (after a very good game by him when he was behind Campbell yesterday I might add). Has thrown one more TD and the same amount of INT's. Oh yeah, he's way better.

Kitna has thrown for roughly 500 more yards. Completes 5.2% more passes. Has thrown 2 more TD's and 2 more INT's than Campbell. Yeah, he is WAY better too.

Schaub has thrown for roughly 200 yards less. Completes 6.3% more passes. Has thrown 3 less TD's and 1 less INT. I see your point!

Need I continue, or do you just want to go away now!!!!

[Hr fan]

Do you really want to let Jason Campbell throw this much?? Here's some interesting numbers regarding when Campbell's allowed to throw it more than 30 times in a game........

The Skins are now 0-9 in games which Jason Campbell throws over 30 times. In these 9 games, the Skins are only averaging 16.5 points per game. Before last week vs. Dallas, Campbell was averaging 29 pass attempts per game. Yes, he's throwing for more yards, but he's just throwing more, not more efficient. In games in which Campbell throws over 30 passes his yards per attempt goes down to a 6.2 average, with a 58% completion rate, and a passer rating of 80.1........

In the last 2 games Campbell has thrown the ball 103 times for 650 yards. Sounds good right? Well the bottom-line is its accounted for 3 TD's, 3 INT's, and 2 Lost Fumbles by Campbell.

I bet Gibbs reels him back in next week, and (imo) that would be the correct move.

What do y'all think?

JC is not a premier QB and probably won't be. He is a game manager in the typical Gibbs mode. How many come from behind victories based on QB play did Theismann and Rypien give us? It is unfair to burden JC with our desire that he become Elway of Montana. He is errily similar to Eli in their performance this week.

That said, when a QB is playing from behind there will be more passes, especially when the running game is averaging about 3 yds/carry. The fact that JC had to pass more than 30 times in more than 1/2 his starts says more about the team than JC. He will be a good QB, but having these circumstances so frequently requires a great one, and at least right now he isn't close to being great.

[Redskin006]

we can change the title to 0-10 when he has more than 30 pass attempts.

[saviour]

we can change the title to 0-10 when he has more than 30 pass attempts.

How about we delete this thread entirely? The games we lost were not because of Campbells pass attempts. Its almost as if no on is paying attention to the game results rather than looking to pass blame. There have been numerous response that clearly state that this team does not look to pass alot until the team is losing. If that is not clear than why continue to argue.

Its a ridiculous stat and it shouldnt get any more attention that it has already. Campbell is not the reason why we lost this game. He has been the best player we have on offense all year even with his mistakes.

[give_portis_the_rock]

How about we delete this thread entirely? The games we lost were not because of Campbells pass attempts. Its almost as if no on is paying attention to the game results rather than looking to pass blame. There have been numerous response that clearly state that this team does not look to pass alot until the team is losing. If that is not clear than why continue to argue.

Its a ridiculous stat and it shouldnt get any more attention that it has already. Campbell is not the reason why we lost this game. He has been the best player we have on offense all year even with his mistakes.

Yeah people are forgetting WHY he threw 30+ attempts, because our running game wasn't working! And it wasn't working because Clinton could never get to the LOS untouched. Rabach and Kendall are banged up, and we got second stringers in place of Thomas and Jansen. Basically one fifth of our unit is at full strength and that's Samuels.

[JasonCampbell]

Basically one fifth of our unit is at full strength and that's Samuels.

And IMO he hasn't played well these last few games after a very strong start to the season.

[give_portis_the_rock]

And IMO he hasn't played well these last few games after a very strong start to the season.

We've gotta address this problem. It seems these guys are always getting hurt and you gotta wonder if that has to do with their age. Heyer is a step in the right direction, he seems like a second day gem.

[ImRickJamesB]

Yeah people are forgetting WHY he threw 30+ attempts, because our running game wasn't working! And it wasn't working because Clinton could never get to the LOS untouched. Rabach and Kendall are banged up, and we got second stringers in place of Thomas and Jansen. Basically one fifth of our unit is at full strength and that's Samuels.

Yeah but there's gonna be a lot of games where you cant get the running game going. Especially when your QB hasn't proven he can win a game with his arm.... 30 Attempts is not that much! He's now 0-10........

12-TD's, 12-Fumbles (8 lost), 11-Ints........ :readme:

2 Turnovers for every 1 TD, no matter how you slice it, that's not even close to good.....

Many people attribute the fumbles to the Offensive-Line, but he's been sacked only 20 times.... That means he avarages about 1 fumble for every 2 sacks! Dude is obviously fumble prone, despite whatever OL issues there might be...

12 TD's? Not gonna win many games kicking field-goals.......

Campbell's not the whole problem, but he's a big part of it.........

The search must continue!!!!!!

[Biggie]

Someone ban Rick James, even if only for disrespecting the memory of the real Rick James. I'm tired of him gloating, especially now, and especially considering how incredibly classy most of his fellow Cowboy fans have been.

[hessy36]

Yeah but there's gonna be a lot of games where you cant get the running game going. Especially when your QB hasn't proven he can win a game with his arm.... 30 Attempts is not that much! He's now 0-10........

12-TD's, 12-Fumbles (8 lost), 11-Ints........ :readme:

2 Turnovers for every 1 TD, no matter how you slice it, that's not even close to good.....

Many people attribute the fumbles to the Offensive-Line, but he's been sacked only 20 times.... That means he avarages about 1 fumble for every 2 sacks! Dude is obviously fumble prone, despite whatever OL issues there might be...

12 TD's? Not gonna win many games kicking field-goals.......

Campbell's not the whole problem, but he's a big part of it.........

The search must continue!!!!!!

I almost totally agree.... JC cannot get it done.

[saviour]

Yeah but there's gonna be a lot of games where you cant get the running game going. Especially when your QB hasn't proven he can win a game with his arm.... 30 Attempts is not that much! He's now 0-10........

12-TD's, 12-Fumbles (8 lost), 11-Ints........ :readme:

2 Turnovers for every 1 TD, no matter how you slice it, that's not even close to good.....

Many people attribute the fumbles to the Offensive-Line, but he's been sacked only 20 times.... That means he avarages about 1 fumble for every 2 sacks! Dude is obviously fumble prone, despite whatever OL issues there might be...

12 TD's? Not gonna win many games kicking field-goals.......

Campbell's not the whole problem, but he's a big part of it.........

The search must continue!!!!!!

Please refrain from commenting further until you start watching each play of EVERY Redskin game. Reading a post game stat line on NFL.com does not tell you the full story. Redzone playcalling is the reason why the Skins have a hard time scoring in the redzone...NOT CAMPBELL, nor Portis for that matter.

The Jumbo package has not worked for the past 4 seasons but we still go to it in the redzone.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Yeah but there's gonna be a lot of games where you cant get the running game going. Especially when your QB hasn't proven he can win a game with his arm.... 30 Attempts is not that much! He's now 0-10........

12-TD's, 12-Fumbles (8 lost), 11-Ints........ :readme:

2 Turnovers for every 1 TD, no matter how you slice it, that's not even close to good.....

Many people attribute the fumbles to the Offensive-Line, but he's been sacked only 20 times.... That means he avarages about 1 fumble for every 2 sacks! Dude is obviously fumble prone, despite whatever OL issues there might be...

12 TD's? Not gonna win many games kicking field-goals.......

Campbell's not the whole problem, but he's a big part of it.........

The search must continue!!!!!!

Well firstly, if you're gonna count fumbles with INTs, you should also count rushing TDs (he has one). It doesn't make much of a difference, but you should count it anyway for the sake of not posting selective statistics. And he may be fumble prone, but that's certainly fixable. What's much harder to fix is poor decision making throwing the ball. He doesn't throw many picks (and I can name at least three which were fluke interceptions), and that indicates that he's making good reads and good decisions. Fumbling problem is much less a matter of decision making or skill and more a matter of holding on to the ball -- he will learn that sooner or later no doubt.

And I'm not gonna say "the search continues" because firstly he's shown a lot of progress, and secondly because you can't expect a QB to blossom in his first year as a starter. Very few players have ever done that. I can't even name a handful. There's Brady of course, but after that? Maybe Big Ben or Mike Vick. After that, I think most QBs needed a couple years under their belt before you can be sure if they're for real. Peyton threw 28 picks his rookie season...

[akhhorus]

Damn you Jason Campbell for calling that 2nd timeout, and blowing your coverage on that deep pass to set up the FG!

[saviour]

Damn you Jason Campbell for calling that 2nd timeout, and blowing your coverage on that deep pass to set up the FG!

LMAO!!

[JRudy]

Rickjames, also take into consideration that JC was getting hit or scrambling for his life on almost every offensive play yesterday and other games before this. This problem goes way deeper then Campbell. Edwards never got touched yesterday by our defense, i'd love to see what kind of game JC would have if he got protection like that.

[ImRickJamesB]

Well firstly, if you're gonna count fumbles with INTs, you should also count rushing TDs (he has one). It doesn't make much of a difference, but you should count it anyway for the sake of not posting selective statistics. And he may be fumble prone, but that's certainly fixable.

Fumbling problem is much less a matter of decision making or skill and more a matter of holding on to the ball -- he will learn that sooner or later no doubt.


If fumbling is so "fixable", then why haven't they fixed it yet? If this was something that could be fixed by the QB's Coach, they would've fixed it by now... It's routinely the same bunch of QB's that lead the league in Fumbles... They just got a new member in Campbell......

Look at John Kitna, one of the few QB's with as many Fumbles as JC. Every year he's played as a starter, he's averaged about 13-14 Fumbles a year.... Drew Bledsoe, he never got it out of his system. Dude was deadly accurate, but it usually took him too long to make a decision and throw, and he had little pocket awareness...

This is about pocket-awareness, and his lack there of.... Its also about his throwing motion, it's too long...... It's also about his decision making, it's too slow...

And you're right, it should read... 13 - TD's, 12 Fumbles, 11 INT's, in 12 games......:readme:
0-10 when attempting 30 or more passes....

What's much harder to fix is poor decision making throwing the ball. He doesn't throw many picks (and I can name at least three which were fluke interceptions), and that indicates that he's making good reads and good decisions.

His decision making isn't all that poor, until it comes to a game winning drive. However, his decision making is slow... Do you really think, that the only routes that are ever open are of the 5-8 yard variety? Or could it have something to with the QB either: A - Not seeing/reading it..... B- Not trusting his arm to deliver it.... C-Not trusting what he's seeing.... D- Seeing it too late

The vast majority of Campbell's completions are for less than 8 yards in the air... Most of the time, you only have a split-second to decide! Receivers come open down field, but they're usually only open for a second or two max.... That means the QB has about 1 second to make up his mind and throw... JC only wants to throw 20+ yards when he has 2 or more seconds to decide... These opportunities are rare...

It was a pretty poor decision to throw that ball at the end of the Dallas game, it was also a very poor decision to throw 2 horrible INT's at the end of the Tampa game.... This also has something to do with his lack of accuracy.

And I'm not gonna say "the search continues" because firstly he's shown a lot of progress, and secondly because you can't expect a QB to blossom in his first year as a starter. Very few players have ever done that. I can't even name a handful. There's Brady of course, but after that? Maybe Big Ben or Mike Vick. After that, I think most QBs needed a couple years under their belt before you can be sure if they're for real. Peyton threw 28 picks his rookie season...

I just dont see it...... Where's this progression?

His QB Rating is the same as it was last year (77.0)...... 20th in the NFL...

This year, he's averaging slightly less TD's, a lot more INT's, and a lot more Fumbles....

His Completion Percentage is up a little bit (59.9), but that's still pretty bad (24th in the NFL), especially when most of your passes are very short......

His Yards Per Attempt is up slightly to 6.5 (6.3 last year), but once again, that's 24th in the NFL....

I know stats dont tell everything.... So tell me, what games has he won for ya?

[give_portis_the_rock]

If fumbling is so "fixable", then why haven't they fixed it yet? If this was something that could be fixed by the QB's Coach, they would've fixed it by now... It's routinely the same bunch of QB's that lead the league in Fumbles... They just got a new member in Campbell......

Look at John Kitna, one of the few QB's with as many Fumbles as JC. Every year he's played as a starter, he's averaged about 13-14 Fumbles a year.... Drew Bledsoe, he never got it out of his system. Dude was deadly accurate, but it usually took him too long to make a decision and throw, and he had little pocket awareness...

This is about pocket-awareness, and his lack there of.... Its also about his throwing motion, it's too long...... It's also about his decision making, it's too slow...

And you're right, it should read... 13 - TD's, 12 Fumbles, 11 INT's, in 12 games......:readme:
0-10 when attempting 30 or more passes....



His decision making isn't all that poor, until it comes to a game winning drive. However, his decision making is slow... Do you really think, that the only routes that are ever open are of the 5-8 yard variety? Or could it have something to with the QB either: A - Not seeing/reading it..... B- Not trusting his arm to deliver it.... C-Not trusting what he's seeing.... D- Seeing it too late

The vast majority of Campbell's completions are for less than 8 yards in the air... Most of the time, you only have a split-second to decide! Receivers come open down field, but they're usually only open for a second or two max.... That means the QB has about 1 second to make up his mind and throw... JC only wants to throw 20+ yards when he has 2 or more seconds to decide... These opportunities are rare...

It was a pretty poor decision to throw that ball at the end of the Dallas game, it was also a very poor decision to throw 2 horrible INT's at the end of the Tampa game.... This also has something to do with his lack of accuracy.



I just dont see it...... Where's this progression?

His QB Rating is the same as it was last year (77.0)...... 20th in the NFL...

This year, he's averaging slightly less TD's, a lot more INT's, and a lot more Fumbles....

His Completion Percentage is up a little bit (59.9), but that's still pretty bad (24th in the NFL), especially when most of your passes are very short......

His Yards Per Attempt is up slightly to 6.5 (6.3 last year), but once again, that's 24th in the NFL....

I know stats dont tell everything.... So tell me, what games has he won for ya?

Hold on a second now. You shouldn't say he's slow in his decision making because I remember last year he latched on to Cooley or his check down receiver, and this year he goes through his progressions much faster. Jaws showed some game film some time this year (forgot when) which showed the same thing.

Yeah he's had less TDs on average, but our red zone offence in general has not been too great, and Portis has quite a few TDs this season (7, which is not that much but more than Betts had in the last 7 games of 06). I think passing TDs alone can't be a barometer of a QB's success. TDs in general should be credited to the whole offensive unit, because very rarely is a drive all runs or all passes.

Completion percentage may be the most overrated and pointless passing stat ever. Because people like to use it as a barometer of accuracy -- you can only use completion percentage as a barometer of accuracy if every QB makes the same exact throws. But as it stands, completion percentage is more about play calling than accuracy -- remember, David Carr led the league in CP% last season. Not Peyton, not Brady, not Palmer or McNabb. David Carr.

His yards per attempt was in the high 7s earlier in the season, it's been going down because we've passed much more than we usually like to. We've been using the underneath passing game to compensate for our lack of push in the run game.

[Biggie]

Consider this post the official founding of the Ban The Troll - Rick James Committee. I am now taking applications for co-chair.

[Spence]

Mark Rypien had a fumbling problem early in his career. I think he actually fumbled every time he was sacked for 10 or more sacks. It was an NFL record at the time, if I recall correctly. It got fixed and the Redskins won a Super Bowl with Rypien. Of course fumbling problems can be fixed. Tiki Barber had a fumbling problem 5 years ago and it was so bad the Giants told him they'd have to let him go if it wasn't fixed. It was fixed and for the last 3-4 years before retirement, he was as good as any tailback in the NFC. Fumbling problems can be fixed. It usually takes an offseason of work.

[dj_stouty]

I love Jason Campbell...and I believe he is the franchise QB of the Redskins for many years to come; however he is making way too many mistakes at the most inopportune times. He has 19 starts under his belt...as well as a full season and a half for development's sake, so there isn't much room for excuses. He needs to improve on holding onto the ball...as well as refraining from making bad judgement calls at the end of games by tossing INTs.

[Farmer Ted]

Mark Rypien had a fumbling problem early in his career. I think he actually fumbled every time he was sacked for 10 or more sacks. It was an NFL record at the time, if I recall correctly. It got fixed and the Redskins won a Super Bowl with Rypien. Of course fumbling problems can be fixed. Tiki Barber had a fumbling problem 5 years ago and it was so bad the Giants told him they'd have to let him go if it wasn't fixed. It was fixed and for the last 3-4 years before retirement, he was as good as any tailback in the NFC. Fumbling problems can be fixed. It usually takes an offseason of work.

I agree, it's something that he'll work out. But another problem we've seen with Jason this season has been his inablilty to hit the deep receiver. He doesn't put enough air under the ball, and his deep passes usually aren't catchable. In fact, other than the hail-Mary to R-El against Miami (that was overthrown but bounced off a defender's hands back to R-E), I really can't think of a single bomb that he's completed this year. The change from Brunell to Campbell was good at first, because Jason was able to stretch the field with his arm. But now, we're almost back to where we were last year when Brunell couldn't throw the ball more than 25 yards, because Jason just can't hit a deep receiver. He really needs to improve that. His stats would probably look a lot more like Brunell's in 2005 if he had hit 5 or 6 long passes for TD's this year. He's certainly had the opportunities, but he hasn't come through.

[give_portis_the_rock]

I agree, it's something that he'll work out. But another problem we've seen with Jason this season has been his inablilty to hit the deep receiver. He doesn't put enough air under the ball, and his deep passes usually aren't catchable. In fact, other than the hail-Mary to R-El against Miami (that was overthrown but bounced off a defender's hands back to R-E), I really can't think of a single bomb that he's completed this year. The change from Brunell to Campbell was good at first, because Jason was able to stretch the field with his arm. But now, we're almost back to where we were last year when Brunell couldn't throw the ball more than 25 yards, because Jason just can't hit a deep receiver. He really needs to improve that. His stats would probably look a lot more like Brunell's in 2005 if he had hit 5 or 6 long passes for TD's this year. He's certainly had the opportunities, but he hasn't come through.

Against the Giants, to Moss
I don't know, the deep ball used to be his best asset

[Farmer Ted]

Against the Giants, to Moss
I don't know, the deep ball used to be his best asset

I think maybe when he shortened his wind-up this season, he lost some of his touch. I remember last year, and early this year that he could throw great, soft passes to wide-outs running fade patterns. Now it seems like all he can throw is the fastball. Maybe he's just rushing his throws, or something. But it's a lot harder to throw a fastball on target to a receiver 40+ yards away than it is to throw a high, soft pass. Back in 2005, Brunell was money on those passes to Moss. A lot of the time the balls were under-thrown, but Moss could adjust to them and make the catch.

I honestly think that there's not a whole lot of difference between this year's team and the 2005 team, except that Campbell isn't hitting the deep passes. He's fumbling a little more than Brunell did (Mark dropped the ball a lot in 2005), but we're getting a little less lucky in recovering the fumbles, so that's hurt, too.

[saviour]

Against the Giants, to Moss
I don't know, the deep ball used to be his best asset

I still think his deep ball is still very good. I really think we put too much value on our scrub receivers. No one on our roster was considered a deep threat before they came here with the exception of the injury prone Santana Moss. (Who always finds a way to squeeze a good season between several bad ones) JC has put the ball in places where his receivers have to make a play on the ball and they dont come down with it. Not all deep passes are placed perfectly and they usually take a superior effort from the receiver to complete the pass.

2 QB's that come to mind when completing long inaccurate passes are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson. Plaxico Burress was outplaying and out jumping every DB he played against before he got hurt while catching Eli's horrendous high ball. And the trio of Braylon, KWII, and Jurevicous just completely outplays thier defenders to make plays on the ball. Winslow's catch on sunday (which was a force out and should have been the game winner) against the cards is a prime example of this. The ball was so overthrown it was a joke, but he outjumped two DB's and caught the ball anyway. Do we have any receiver on our roster capable of that? Not at all.

I wont even comment on how Brady just tosses the ball up in double coverage and lets Randy Moss work his magic to make Brady look like and accurate deep ball passer.

We do not have the kind of receiver on our roster that will catch anything but a perfectly thown deep pass unless he is WIDE OPEN so we cant place all of the blame on JC. Until we get a true number 1 receiver we cant expect JC to continue to make the perfect pass everytime so that his receivers can catch the ball. Great QB's need great receivers.

[Redskin4Life]

I still think his deep ball is still very good. I really think we put too much value on our scrub receivers. No one on our roster was considered a deep threat before they came here with the exception of the injury prone Santana Moss. (Who always finds a way to squeeze a good season between several bad ones) JC has put the ball in places where his receivers have to make a play on the ball and they dont come down with it. Not all deep passes are placed perfectly and they usually take a superior effort from the receiver to complete the pass.

2 QB's that come to mind when completing long inaccurate passes are Eli Manning and Derek Anderson. Plaxico Burress was outplaying and out jumping every DB he played against before he got hurt while catching Eli's horrendous high ball. And the trio of Braylon, KWII, and Jurevicous just completely outplays thier defenders to make plays on the ball. Winslow's catch on sunday (which was a force out and should have been the game winner) against the cards is a prime example of this. The ball was so overthrown it was a joke, but he outjumped two DB's and caught the ball anyway. Do we have any receiver on our roster capable of that? Not at all.

I wont even comment on how Brady just tosses the ball up in double coverage and lets Randy Moss work his magic to make Brady look like and accurate deep ball passer.

We do not have the kind of receiver on our roster that will catch anything but a perfectly thown deep pass unless he is WIDE OPEN so we cant place all of the blame on JC. Until we get a true number 1 receiver we cant expect JC to continue to make the perfect pass everytime so that his receivers can catch the ball. Great QB's need great receivers.
Are you serious?? I mean what about this offseason when JC was working on his timing with all the wideouts? I mean, geez, you would think with all the time they spent together that he'd have that deep ball perfect with them?

What happened to the weeks of practice working on the long ball with our extremely healthy WR's and their perfect hamstrings? I mean, they've been to every practice and in top condition so those throws shouldn't be long?

What about all the time that JC gets in the pocket for his WRs to get open downfield for a bomb? Our Line is one of the best in the league???

And what about our excellent run game? Safeties have to cheat up all the time so that deep ball is wide open?

That dang Jason C isn't worth a crap...

[saviour]

Are you serious?? I mean what about this offseason when JC was working on his timing with all the wideouts? I mean, geez, you would think with all the time they spent together that he'd have that deep ball perfect with them?

What happened to the weeks of practice working on the long ball with our extremely healthy WR's and their perfect hamstrings? I mean, they've been to every practice and in top condition so those throws shouldn't be long?

What about all the time that JC gets in the pocket for his WRs to get open downfield for a bomb? Our Line is one of the best in the league???

And what about our excellent run game? Safeties have to cheat up all the time so that deep ball is wide open?

That dang Jason C isn't worth a crap...

LMAO.

I was thinking the same thing...

[ImRickJamesB]

Hold on a second now. You shouldn't say he's slow in his decision making because I remember last year he latched on to Cooley or his check down receiver, and this year he goes through his progressions much faster. Jaws showed some game film some time this year (forgot when) which showed the same thing.

Whatever........ From what I've seen, he often holds the ball too long, and is slow to make his decisions.

Yeah he's had less TDs on average, but our red zone offence in general has not been too great, and Portis has quite a few TDs this season (7, which is not that much but more than Betts had in the last 7 games of 06). I think passing TDs alone can't be a barometer of a QB's success. TDs in general should be credited to the whole offensive unit, because very rarely is a drive all runs or all passes.

7 TD's from Portis? That's why JC doesn't have more TD's?? That's like a TD every other game...... I hardly think that's any kind of an excuse....

Jason's the QB! He's supposed to be the leader on offense! So any short-comings that the offense is having, is a direct result of JC's short-comings to overcome them.... Bottom line: Campbell's not getting it done in the red-zone.... He's not putting points on the board, and you cant win in todays NFL, when you only score 20 points a game.....

Completion percentage may be the most overrated and pointless passing stat ever. Because people like to use it as a barometer of accuracy -- you can only use completion percentage as a barometer of accuracy if every QB makes the same exact throws. But as it stands, completion percentage is more about play calling than accuracy -- remember, David Carr led the league in CP% last season. Not Peyton, not Brady, not Palmer or McNabb. David Carr.

Completion percentage alone, isn't always a telling stat........ But when most of your throws are of the 5-7 yard variety, 60% is pretty dang awful.....

His yards per attempt was in the high 7s earlier in the season, it's been going down because we've passed much more than we usually like to. We've been using the underneath passing game to compensate for our lack of push in the run game.

I dont care what his Yards Per Attempt was "earlier in the season"!! This is a marathon, not a sprint!

He's had 3 games this season where his Yards Per Attempt was over 7.... They were all in the first 4 games of the season........
Game 1 - 10.6 Yards Per Attempt
Game 2 - 7.2 Yards Per Attempt
Game 4 -8.6 Yards Per Attempt

Since then, it's been all down hill........
Game 5 - 5.9
Game 6 - 5.3
Game 7 - 5.5
Game 8 - 6.2
Game 9 - 6.3
Game 10 - 6.4
Game 11 - 6.1
Game 12 - 5.8

Like Parcells said, "You are what you are"......... He is what he is, and he's the same player he was last year.........

The stats I presented only back up what my eyes see......... I haven't seen all the Redskins games, but I've seen most of them, and (IMO) he looks the same as he did in game 1, the same as he did in 2006.... I see no progress.......

The stats say there's no progression, and maybe even some regression.......

So tell me, what part of his progression has impressed you most?

[Redskin4Life]

And all of this reliable info from a guy who's "star" QB has arguably the best WR in the game (giving him 14 TDs out of the 33 he's thrown) and is the leading WR based on yards in the league right now (1249). While also having the most well-rounded TE in the game that's in the top 5 in all categores for TEs. Oh and they're both healthy....

And I love how this person discusses our QB as "being too slow with his progressions" and that's why he has 20 sacks but the lauded Tony Romo with his healthy and intact starting OLine has 16 sacks cause he's being.... elusive? Not to mention his 14 INTs has him in the top 5 of the league for interceptions.

[Redskin4Life]

...

And you're right, it should read... 13 - TD's, 12 Fumbles, 11 INT's, in 12 games.....

Check your stats again buddy. Campbell's only got 8 fumbles for the season...

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=CAM375235

[redskin_rich]

Check your stats again buddy. Campbell's only got 8 fumbles for the season...

http://www.nfl.com/players/profile?id=CAM375235

The link you put up says 12 fumbles, 8 lost.

[Redskin4Life]

The link you put up says 12 fumbles, 8 lost.
So is his argument based on the number of times he's turned it over (fumbles lost) or on the fact that he's fumbled the ball (whether he got it back or not is irrelevant)? I would think TURNING OVER the ball is more important.

[redskin_rich]

So is his argument based on the number of times he's turned it over (fumbles lost) or on the fact that he's fumbled the ball (whether he got it back or not is irrelevant)? I would think TURNING OVER the ball is more important.

You'll have to ask RickJames'B that but as far as stats go, there are 12 fumbles and 8 lost. Yes it is worse to lose the fumble, obviously but a fumble is a fumble and by the looks of things, Campbell is averaging 1 per game. That's not good and will need to be worked on.

[Redskin4Life]

You'll have to ask RickJames'B that but as far as stats go, there are 12 fumbles and 8 lost. Yes it is worse to lose the fumble, obviously but a fumble is a fumble and by the looks of things, Campbell is averaging 1 per game. That's not good and will need to be worked on.
While that's true that JCamp needs to get rid of the fumblitis, 12 fumbles based on the lackluster play of our line isn't that ridiculous. I did some work and got the number of fumbles from the top 16 QB based on total yards thrown. The list included:

1 Tom Brady
2 Brett Favre
3 Tony Romo
4 Carson Palmer
5 Drew Brees
6 Jon Kitna
7 Peyton Manning
8 Matt Hasselbeck
9 Derek Anderson
10 Jason Campbell
11 Jay Cutler
12 Eli Manning
13 Ben Roethlisberger
14 Philip Rivers
15 Donovan McNabb
16 Matt Schaub

The average for these guys is around 7.25 fumbles, not lost --- just fumbles. The worst from the list is Kitna (14) and the best is Brady (4). 6 guys had 8 or more. 4 guys had 5 or less.

So with even a perfect line, you should expect around 7-8 fumbles based on the best QBs this season. But JCamp still does need help...

[redskin_rich]

While that's true that JCamp needs to get rid of the fumblitis, 12 fumbles based on the lackluster play of our line isn't that ridiculous. I did some work and got the number of fumbles from the top 16 QB based on total yards thrown. The list included:

1 Tom Brady
2 Brett Favre
3 Tony Romo
4 Carson Palmer
5 Drew Brees
6 Jon Kitna
7 Peyton Manning
8 Matt Hasselbeck
9 Derek Anderson
10 Jason Campbell
11 Jay Cutler
12 Eli Manning
13 Ben Roethlisberger
14 Philip Rivers
15 Donovan McNabb
16 Matt Schaub

The average for these guys is around 7.25 fumbles, not lost --- just fumbles. The worst from the list is Kitna (14) and the best is Brady (4). 6 guys had 8 or more. 4 guys had 5 or less.

So with even a perfect line, you should expect around 7-8 fumbles based on the best QBs this season. But JCamp still does need help...

Go back and look at Romo's number of fumbles and INT's last year. I'd bet it is off the charts. He has obviously improved immensely or gotten extremely lucky this year or a bit of both.

[Redskin4Life]

Go back and look at Romo's number of fumbles and INT's last year. I'd bet it is off the charts. He has obviously improved immensely or gotten extremely lucky this year or a bit of both.
Just curious, but what would you consider those shotgun snaps that slip out of his hands or over his head? Are those considered fumbles in your opinion? NFL.com doesn't think they are...

Last year in 11 STARTS (counting the playoffs), Romo had 17 TDs, 10 INTs, 11 Fumbles and 21 sacks. He also played in two games that he didn't start and those stats were 3 TDs, 3 INTs, and 2 sacks.

[redskin_rich]

Just curious, but what would you consider those shotgun snaps that slip out of his hands or over his head? Are those considered fumbles in your opinion? NFL.com doesn't think they are...

Last year in 11 STARTS (counting the playoffs), Romo had 17 TDs, 10 INTs, 11 Fumbles and 21 sacks. He also played in two games that he didn't start and those stats were 3 TDs, 3 INTs, and 2 sacks.

Not fumbles, botched snaps. If he drops the snap, it should be a fumble.

[Redskin4Life]

The Colts went 1-11 when Peyton Manning passed the ball 30 times or more his first year as the starter.... he threw 19 TDs, 23 INTs, and 22 sacks.

[Redskin4Life]

Not fumbles, botched snaps. If he drops the snap, it should be a fumble.
So if there was a botched snap that the defense jumps on, doesn't the QB get the fumble whether the QB touched the ball or not?

[Farmer Ted]

So is his argument based on the number of times he's turned it over (fumbles lost) or on the fact that he's fumbled the ball (whether he got it back or not is irrelevant)? I would think TURNING OVER the ball is more important.

Turning the ball over is obviously worse, but either way, when the QB drops the ball, it's usually a crappy play (which may be the fault of the blockers, not the QB). What's really killed the Skins is that Jason has fumbled the ball once in four straight games, and all have been turnovers. His last 7 fumbles have been turnovers (in 5 games, all losses). In fact, the Skins are 0-6 in games that Jason's turned the ball over with a fumble. It's clearly been a problem.

But what can you do, some of it is just bad luck. Brunell fumbled a lot in 2005, too (11 times). But the Skins only lost the ball 6 times.

[skin4ever]

Maybe this is why Gibbs kept the offense so close to his vest, Campbell cant make all those throws yet, and our O line has been desimated.

[Redskin4Life]

Turning the ball over is obviously worse, but either way, when the QB drops the ball, it's usually a crappy play (which may be the fault of the blockers, not the QB). What's really killed the Skins is that Jason has fumbled the ball once in four straight games, and all have been turnovers. His last 7 fumbles have been turnovers (in 5 games, all losses). In fact, the Skins are 0-6 in games that Jason's turned the ball over with a fumble. It's clearly been a problem.

But what can you do, some of it is just bad luck. Brunell fumbled a lot in 2005, too (11 times). But the Skins only lost the ball 6 times.
While the fumbles are bad, I still have to ask:

Are we getting good OLine play?
Do we have a good run game going?
Do we have WRs that are healthy and making plays for balls?

IMO, if one of these three questions are a "No", then you could end up with a loss. I can say without a doubt that all three are "Nos" for the whole season. While Campbell's fumbles aren't helping, I can't say that the fumbles are the reason we lost those games.

[Redskin4Life]

Maybe this is why Gibbs kept the offense so close to his vest, Campbell cant make all those throws yet, and our O line has been desimated.
Maybe Campbell's not a "mobile" QB like McNabb, Culpepper or Romo and more of a pocket passer in the ilk of Palmer, Brady or Manning? Not saying JCamp is as good as them, I'm saying maybe he's a pretty good QB when he's not touched in the pocket (there's plenty of proof showing how those guys don't do well when the pocket collapses fast).

[akhhorus]

interesting post by JLC today on this:

Working on a story for the Thurs. paper on JC's development, and the last great hurdle - pulling off one of those John Elway moments and rallying for a win in the dying minutes.

He's struggled there - as young passers so often do - and the play selection, pass protection breakdowns, dropped balls and mismanagement on the sidelines has not helped. Still, Jason is very realistic about it and knows he is not where he needs to be yet on these decisive drives (a lot of people at Redskins Park would tell you they do not dedicate sufficient practice time to live rehearsals of the odd circumstances that seem to plague the end of most Redskins games as well).

Anyway, Jason is completing 56 percent of his passes in the 4th quarter with 4 TDs and 4 INTs and a slumping 68.6 rating. But that's about where the rest of the young QBs in the NFL are.

Jay Cutler? 2 Tds-3 Ints in the 4th quarter, 70.7 rating.
Alex Smith - 57.4 rating in the 4th
Kellen Clemens - 51.4
Vince Young - 56.9
Philip Rivers - 48.2 (Ouch! 2 Tds-5 Ints. Norv has found his perfect late-game muse).

And, for the record, Jason still has a better rating than BBM (Eli Manning) this season: 77.5-77.4
Now, Eli has been better in the fourth quarter (he's also on a winning team), with 7 Tds and 4 Ints and an 86.3 rating. But he's also got a few years on Jason in terms of starts.

In 2006 he threw more interceptions that TDs in the fourth quarter.

So for those piling on the young quarterback in town I urge you to give him time, and I can assure you there is no shortage of NFL teams who would gladly swap places with the Redskins on the quarterback issue.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

interesting post by JLC today on this:

This can't be true. It makes too much sense.

[redskin_rich]

I think the receivers have hurt JC more than anything else. Let TO go down to injury and Romo be stuck with Crayton as his top WR. That would be very similar to what we have had to deal with for a lot of this season and I would expect them to have similar results.

[Redskinmayhem]

I think the receivers have hurt JC more than anything else. Let TO go down to injury and Romo be stuck with Crayton as his top WR. That would be very similar to what we have had to deal with for a lot of this season and I would expect them to have similar results.

that's a good point but I still contend that we're a big time WR away from being a really good offense (in addition to all the other things lol). Basically, we need another Art Monk. It's no Secret, Every good QB in the league has a go-to WR. Santana and ARE are very good but they aren't true #1's.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Hey Rick James,
You think Romo would have time to throw up those rainbows if his pocket collapsed every other play? Jason's YPA has gone down because our line isn't giving him as much protection as they were earlier in the year -- right now he has to throw to his first option or to his check down or he'll get hammered.

Homo probably has it easier than any QB in the league (other than perhaps Brady, but based on past precedent I'd say Brady would be good even without Moss, Welker, and Watson). He can stand in the pocket all day and throw to wide open receivers. Moss and Randle El (in the rare event that they both play in the same game), or Owens and Crayton? If Campbell took as many risks as Homo I guarantee you he would have far more turnovers. And then yall would be coming in here saying he's reckless and making bad decisions.

[ImRickJamesB]

Hey Rick James,
You think Romo would have time to throw up those rainbows if his pocket collapsed every other play? Jason's YPA has gone down because our line isn't giving him as much protection as they were earlier in the year -- right now he has to throw to his first option or to his check down or he'll get hammered.

Look, dont act like Campbell has been under seige for the entire season! He's only been sacked 4 more times (20) than Romo (16)... The O-Line hasn't been as big of a problem as you all make it out to be.....

You think Romo never gets pressured? Then you really haven't seen many Cowboys games! He avoids the pressure better than any QB in the league, except for Vince Young. His QB Rating goes UP when he's outside of the pocket, and it's usually not by design!

If the Center didn't repeatedly snap the ball over Romo's head, how could Romo track it down 30 yards behind the Line of Scrimmage, then run it back up field 40 yards, and convert the 3rd and 5 (St.Louis game)........... Without that O-Line, how could he do the same thing against the Redskins, when he converted that 3 and 4 to Owens.......



A good QB also makes his line better.

Take a look at Bledsoe/Romo last season. Same OL, same WRs, same TE.....

Bledsoe was sacked four times per game last season and had a QB Rating of 69.1 , before being yanked out.

Romo was sacked two times per game and had a QB Rating of 95.3.

Campbell while more fleet of foot than Bledsoe, he also suffers from holding the ball too long....

Homo probably has it easier than any QB in the league (other than perhaps Brady, but based on past precedent I'd say Brady would be good even without Moss, Welker, and Watson). He can stand in the pocket all day and throw to wide open receivers. Moss and Randle El (in the rare event that they both play in the same game), or Owens and Crayton? If Campbell took as many risks as Homo I guarantee you he would have far more turnovers. And then yall would be coming in here saying he's reckless and making bad decisions.


You dont think Romo would be good without Owens? No doubt that having Owens is a luxury, but he's not necessarily a necessity to Romo's success........ True, Owens helps make Romo look good, but there's also a reason that at 34 years old (!), El Dorado is on his way to his best season ever!

Here's Terrell Owens' career highs for a Season,
versus what he's already done this year....:readme:

Most TD's in a season - 16 (2000)
Already has - 14....... He might set his new personal best on Sunday vs. the Lions.

Most Yards in a season - 1451 (2001)
Already has - 1249.... He'll eclipse this record in the next 2 games.

Yards Per Catch in a season - 16.4 (1998)
Currently - 17.6

Most 20+ Yard Receptions in a season - 23 (2000)
Already has - 22....... He'll break this personal best on Sunday.

He's having BY FAR his best season!! This is his 12TH SEASON!!
You dont think Romo has anything to do with that? All those extra yards and extra TD's he's gonna get this year, are a direct result of Romo's ability to keep plays alive, especially after his pocket collapses.......

Only 3 QB's have EVER thrown for 40 or more TD's in a season!

Marino (1984, 1986)
Warner (1999)
Manning (2004)

Romo is on pace for 44 TD's!
Brady and Romo will become the 4th and 5th members of this elite club!

And Romo's doing it in his FIRST full season as a starter!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Look, dont act like Campbell has been under seige for the entire season! He's only been sacked 4 more times (20) than Romo (16)... The O-Line hasn't been as big of a problem as you all make it out to be.....

You think Romo never gets pressured? Then you really haven't seen many Cowboys games! He avoids the pressure better than any QB in the league, except for Vince Young. His QB Rating goes UP when he's outside of the pocket, and it's usually not by design!

If the Center didn't repeatedly snap the ball over Romo's head, how could Romo track it down 30 yards behind the Line of Scrimmage, then run it back up field 40 yards, and convert the 3rd and 5 (St.Louis game)........... Without that O-Line, how could he do the same thing against the Redskins, when he converted that 3 and 4 to Owens.......



A good QB also makes his line better.

Take a look at Bledsoe/Romo last season. Same OL, same WRs, same TE.....

Bledsoe was sacked four times per game last season and had a QB Rating of 69.1 , before being yanked out.

Romo was sacked two times per game and had a QB Rating of 95.3.

Campbell while more fleet of foot than Bledsoe, he also suffers from holding the ball too long....


You dont think Romo would be good without Owens? No doubt that having Owens is a luxury, but he's not necessarily a necessity to Romo's success........ True, Owens helps make Romo look good, but there's also a reason that at 34 years old (!), El Dorado is on his way to his best season ever!

Here's Terrell Owens' career highs for a Season,
versus what he's already done this year....:readme:

Most TD's in a season - 16 (2000)
Already has - 14....... He might set his new personal best on Sunday vs. the Lions.

Most Yards in a season - 1451 (2001)
Already has - 1249.... He'll eclipse this record in the next 2 games.

Yards Per Catch in a season - 16.4 (1998)
Currently - 17.6

Most 20+ Yard Receptions in a season - 23 (2000)
Already has - 22....... He'll break this personal best on Sunday.

He's having BY FAR his best season!! This is his 12TH SEASON!!
You dont think Romo has anything to do with that? All those extra yards and extra TD's he's gonna get this year, are a direct result of Romo's ability to keep plays alive, especially after his pocket collapses.......

Only 3 QB's have EVER thrown for 40 or more TD's in a season!

Marino (1984, 1986)
Warner (1999)
Manning (2004)

Romo is on pace for 44 TD's!
Brady and Romo will become the 4th and 5th members of this elite club!

And Romo's doing it in his FIRST full season as a starter!
You do realize how much time you are wasting writing out all this stuff that nobody cares about don't you?
I would be very surprised if even one single member here reads your posts entirely.

If you wanna say that Romo is awesome and Campbell sucks, just say so, and everybody will accept it as your opinion, and agree or disagree. Then we can all move on and make this annoying thread go away.

[akhhorus]

You do realize how much time you are wasting writing out all this stuff that nobody cares about don't you?
I would be very surprised if even one single member here reads your posts entirely.

If you wanna say that Romo is awesome and Campbell sucks, just say so, and everybody will accept it as your opinion, and agree or disagree. Then we can all move on and make this annoying thread go away.

What I love is the concept that he has which is: "Campbell sucks, you shouldn't like him", not withstanding that if the Redskins could "cover" or "play defense", this "terrible" Qb did a great job pushing around the vaunted Cowboys defense and would have won in his first start against Dallas IN Dallas with no one at WR. What does that say about Dallas if Campbell is so bad?

[give_portis_the_rock]

What I love is the concept that he has which is: "Campbell sucks, you shouldn't like him", not withstanding that if the Redskins could "cover" or "play defense", this "terrible" Qb did a great job pushing around the vaunted Cowboys defense and would have won in his first start against Dallas IN Dallas with no one at WR. What does that say about Dallas if Campbell is so bad?

Someone just got owned... :sfight:

[ImRickJamesB]

You do realize how much time you are wasting writing out all this stuff that nobody cares about don't you?
I would be very surprised if even one single member here reads your posts entirely.

If you wanna say that Romo is awesome and Campbell sucks, just say so, and everybody will accept it as your opinion, and agree or disagree. Then we can all move on and make this annoying thread go away.

I'm not the one who brought Romo into this!

The only reason I mentioned Romo, is because "Give Portis The Rock" was trying to say that Romo wouldn't be much better than Campbell, if he had the same players around him....

If Romo were the Skins QB, the OL would NOT be an issue! The WR's would NOT be an issue!

As I showed in my above post.....
Last year Romo had the same O-Line as Bledsoe, took half as many sacks as Bledsoe, and had a QB Rating 30 points higher!

TO's great, but there's a reason why he's having BY FAR the best season of his 12 year career! The reason is Romo!

Obviously my point was/is, there's a LOT more difference between Campbell and Romo, other than the talent around them!

I didn't start this rediculous argument, "Give Portis The Rock" did...... Sorry if you dont like it, but I had to set him straight.....

For the record, yes...

Romo = GREATNESS
Campbell = mediocre ........ That's my opinion.... Happy now?

[ImRickJamesB]

Someone just got owned... :sfight:

Yeah, it was you being owned by me!

[give_portis_the_rock]

I'm not the one who brought Romo into this!

The only reason I mentioned Romo, is because "Give Portis The Rock" was trying to say that Romo wouldn't be much better than Campbell, if he had the same players around him....

If Romo were the Skins QB, the OL would NOT be an issue! The WR's would NOT be an issue!

As I showed in my above post.....
Last year Romo had the same O-Line as Bledsoe, took half as many sacks as Bledsoe, and had a QB Rating 30 points higher!

TO's great, but there's a reason why he's having BY FAR the best season of his 12 year career! The reason is Romo!

Obviously my point was/is, there's a LOT more difference between Campbell and Romo, other than the talent around them!

I didn't start this rediculous argument, "Give Portis The Rock" did...... Sorry if you dont like it, but I had to set him straight.....

For the record, yes...

Romo = GREATNESS
Campbell = mediocre ........ That's my opinion.... Happy now?

You can only say that bad OL and receivers "would not be an issue" for Romo if he had played (and played well) behind a bad OL and throwing to bad receivers. But he hasn't. If you wanna crown him, crown his ass. But he has NOT proven himself. We don't know how fast he can make a read because he hasn't been tested. We don't know if he can throw a ball on a rope to his receiver as he's being drilled, because he hasn't been tested. When everything around you makes your job easy, two things happen: (1) you get too comfortable, and (2) you get full of yourself. #2 is undeniable at this point, but I think that -- had Jerry Jones not extended Homo's contract -- he would most certainly have busted out with Miami, Tampa Bay, Buffalo, Atlanta, Baltimore, Carolina, Minnesota, or whatever other crappy team who would pursue him.

[ImRickJamesB]

What I love is the concept that he has which is: "Campbell sucks, you shouldn't like him", not withstanding that if the Redskins could "cover" or "play defense", this "terrible" Qb did a great job pushing around the vaunted Cowboys defense and would have won in his first start against Dallas IN Dallas with no one at WR. What does that say about Dallas if Campbell is so bad?

Who won that game Akh?

Who threw the game-clinching Interception in that game?

What do you mean "no one at WR"? All your top WR's played in that game!
Moss had a damn good game!

With you guys, it's NEVER Campbell's fault!

[give_portis_the_rock]

Who won that game Akh?

Who threw the game-clinching Interception in that game?

What do you mean "no one at WR"? All your top WR's played in that game!
Moss had a damn good game!

With you guys, it's NEVER Campbell's fault!

Yeah it's all about who won.
Jason was playing safety that day, he was blowing coverage on all those TO touchdowns :smash:

[akhhorus]

Who won that game Akh?

Who threw the game-clinching Interception in that game?

What do you mean "no one at WR"? All your top WR's played in that game!
Moss had a damn good game!

With you guys, it's NEVER Campbell's fault!

Who gave up four TDs to the same player? DAMN YOU JASON CAMPBELL FOR CALLING SUCH POOR DEFENSES! If they stop TO once, the Skins win that game.

And no, Moss was crippled with a heel injury(and yet produced), ARE has been hurt all year, and we were playing Keenan McCardell and Reche Caldwell as serious contributors.

Campbell needs to tighten up on his turnovers, but he's getting literally zero help from the defense this year. THis is why you're totally clueless in this. You're just looking at stats, and not context.

[ImRickJamesB]

You can only say that bad OL and receivers "would not be an issue" for Romo if he had played (and played well) behind a bad OL and throwing to bad receivers.

So Santana Moss is a "bad" WR? It's everyone's fault except Campbell, right?
Romo played behind a what people were calling "a bad OL" last year, and he made them look good.... The only OL difference this year, is BIG Davis...

But he hasn't. If you wanna crown him, crown his ass. But he has NOT proven himself. We don't know how fast he can make a read because he hasn't been tested. We don't know if he can throw a ball on a rope to his receiver as he's being drilled, because he hasn't been tested.

If that's what you think. then you must not have seen Romo play more than a game or 2!!! Throw the ball on a rope when being drilled? Did that last week... Make fast reads? Only Brady and Manning even come close....

Romo's on pace for one of the 10 BEST seasons ever by a QB, in the history of the NFL!!
This is his FIRST full season!

You dont have a season like Romo's having, if you're a just driving a bus full of talented players.....

[akhhorus]

So Santana Moss is a "bad" WR? It's everyone's fault except Campbell, right?
Romo played behind a what people were calling "a bad OL" last year, and he made them look good.... The only OL difference this year, is BIG Davis...

And Adams being healthy. Romo is elusive enough that he doesn't need a great Oline.

And Santana Moss isn't in the same class as TO now, especially with him battling injuries.

If that's what you think. then you must not have seen Romo play more than a game or 2!!! Throw the ball on a rope when being drilled? Did that last week... Make fast reads? Only Brady and Manning even come close....

Romo's on pace for one of the 10 BEST seasons ever by a QB, in the history of the NFL!!
This is his FIRST full season!

You dont have a season like Romo's having, if you're a just driving a bus full of talented players.....

I'd like to see what Romo does without TO(which is coming after next year). He's having a great season, but he's also playing with great talent around him. The same argument can be made for Brady this year and Manning in his career. HOWEVER, Brady took his team to the AFC title game with nearly 4000 yards with drek at WR last year(and 4000+ in 2005 with equally bad talent at WR). Romo can't say he's done that.

[dj_stouty]

So what is your overall point, Rick? Dump Jason and start all over again with someone else?

I fully admit Jason has had his problems turning over the ball lately, but so did guys like Peyton and Troy when they were starting out.

Having a tall, smart, strong-armed QB who isn't afraid to throw the ball out of bounds is a good thing to have in this league. There are a lot of teams would like to have Jason right now.

Staring over would be a major, major setback...and we have too many other positions of need right now to worry about getting a new franchise QB.

[Redskin4Life]

Last year in 11 STARTS (counting the playoffs), Romo had 17 TDs, 10 INTs, 11 Fumbles and 21 sacks. He also played in two games that he didn't start and those stats were 3 TDs, 3 INTs, and 2 sacks.
Rick so explain this???

Isn't that a fumble a game??? And nearly 2 TOs a game??? Yet they still made the playoffs last year??? Yea, Romo isn't surrounded by a ton of talent...:rolleyes:

[SkinsfaninNJ]

So what is your overall point, Rick? Dump Jason and start all over again with someone else?

I fully admit Jason has had his problems turning over the ball lately, but so did guys like Peyton and Troy when they were starting out.

Having a tall, smart, strong-armed QB who isn't afraid to throw the ball out of bounds is a good thing to have in this league. There are a lot of teams would like to have Jason right now.

Staring over would be a major, major setback...and we have too many other positions of need right now to worry about getting a new franchise QB.

Discussing this is ridiculous. He has been proven incorrect in so many instances. Let me ask the thread this, is Big Ben a franchise QB? If so, then how do you explain his performance last year? Based on Rick's analysis, Ben should have been benched before this season. That would have been a great decision by the Steelers.

And why does he keep comparing him to Romo? So, really what he is saying is anyone not named Romo is not a franchise QB. Ok, great, we got it. If Romo has a brother, we'll draft him. Short of that, I guess we and 31 other teams are screwed.

[ImRickJamesB]

Discussing this is ridiculous. He has been proven incorrect in so many instances. Let me ask the thread this, is Big Ben a franchise QB? If so, then how do you explain his performance last year? Based on Rick's analysis, Ben should have been benched before this season. That would have been a great decision by the Steelers.

And why does he keep comparing him to Romo? So, really what he is saying is anyone not named Romo is not a franchise QB. Ok, great, we got it. If Romo has a brother, we'll draft him. Short of that, I guess we and 31 other teams are screwed.

I wasn't the one who started this comparison, this thread took a detour when Give Portis The Rock brought up Romo....

I recomend reading a few pages back before you reply......:)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

:sleep:

[ImRickJamesB]

Rick so explain this???

Isn't that a fumble a game??? And nearly 2 TOs a game??? Yet they still made the playoffs last year???

It's called progress.....

It's like you all say, this is his first full season as a starter! You guys say, "Jason is making progress in his first full season as a starter", but I dont see it.... It's pretty hard to deny Romo's progress, and his status among the current elite QB's.... So what?

Yea, Romo isn't surrounded by a ton of talent...:rolleyes:

I never said Romo didn't have a lot of talent around him! There are 3 and a half, bonified, elite talents on that offense!
(no particular order)
1.Witten
2.Romo
3.Owens
and a half - Barber III

Dallas has 2 elite recievers, with an elite QB throwing them the ball.... So yeah, they're a damn good team. The OL is pretty good. By no means are they the best OL in football, but they're better than average.

They all make Romo better, he makes them all better! There's only a handfull of elite QB's right now, and Romo's one of them! If Tom Brady weren't having the year he's having, Romo would be a LOCK for MVP......... Brady will deservedly win in landslide.

I dont even want to talk about Romo! I'm not trying to discuss the Cowboys much at all, this is a Redskins forum, and I have opinions on the Redskins...... It just bugs me when some of you try to diminish Romo's season, just because he's on a good team. He's the main reason we're 11-1...

Now, back to Campbell being less than impressive........

[ImRickJamesB]

So what is your overall point, Rick? Dump Jason and start all over again with someone else?

No, there's no reason to dump him! He's a good backup QB!

But yes.... If there's a QB the Skins like in the draft, then they should grab him! If there's a QB in the 1st Round, who the Redskins feel has elite talent, then they should grab him! Maybe they'll choose wiser next time......

Even if you draft one in the later rounds, you gotta keep looking, you gotta choose wisely... There's not much evidence to show that Campbell's gonna be a top-notch QB, and until he turns into one, the search must go on...

I fully admit Jason has had his problems turning over the ball lately, but so did guys like Peyton and Troy when they were starting out.

Both those guys were true Rookies! It's not the same thing... By the time they reached where JC is now, they were both Pro Bowlers........

Having a tall, smart, strong-armed QB who isn't afraid to throw the ball out of bounds is a good thing to have in this league. There are a lot of teams would like to have Jason right now.

When that's the best thing you can say...... Well that says it all.......

Staring over would be a major, major setback...and we have too many other positions of need right now to worry about getting a new franchise QB.

Nah see... You're not starting over! Even though Brunell or Collins may do better, Campbell is still the best option! With the upside factor, that's a no-brainer..... However, you gotta selectively draft another QB this year! Maybe even in the 1st or 2nd round..... Let him ride the pine.... Give Campbell another 1-2 seasons to show what he can do... If Campbell proves he is the franchise, great, lock him up and be happy... If Campbell fails to improve over that time, then you bring in the next great hope! And you do it until you find a champion....

A setback would be, not planning for the future now.... Most QB's that come through the NFL are lucky if they're average.... A setback would be assuming that Campbell is anything more than an average if he's lucky QB... He hasn't proven otherwise... You must plan for the worst case scenario...... Patrick Ramsey anyone?

[ImRickJamesB]

Back on topic with the thread...... Campbell is 0-10 when throwing 30+ times in a game....

Here's his stats for attempts 31 and beyond.... They take a dramatic drop at this point....

Attempts #31+

Completion % - 54.9
TD's - 2
INT's - 4
Yard Per Attempt - 4.6
+20 Gains - 1
QB Rating - 52.8


How about his stats for the 4th quarter, when it's a 7 point (or less) game....
Completion % - 56.6
TD's - 3
INT's - 4
Yards Per Attempt - 5.7
20+ Gains - 4
QB Rating - 66.6


What about his stats for the last 2 minutes of a half, and the last 2 minutes of the game....
Completion % - 50.0
TD's - 2
INT's - 3
Yards Per Attempt - 6.0
20+ Gains - 3
QB Rating - 58.9


This all shows that Campbell plays his worst in crunch time........

[Redskin4Life]

It's called progress.....

It's like you all say, this is his first full season as a starter! You guys say, "Jason is making progress in his first full season as a starter", but I dont see it.... It's pretty hard to deny Romo's progress, and his status among the current elite QB's.... So what?

Progress? Or that he has an great OLine blocking for him? You've said it yourself that Romo has had time to get a botched snap and turn it into a play (most QBs would be lucky just to land on the ball before someone gets to him). Again, Campbell last year was sacked only 7 times in 7 games. This year, he's been sacked 21 times in 14 games. I don't think it's his decision making instead a lack of time to throw cause of the OLine issues.

The Cowboys are tied for 6th in the NFL for Give/Take away, which turns into more opportunities for the offense to score. For your info, the Skins are tied for last in the league, which would explain the tightly called games at the end and terrible play-calling when the game is close.

I never said Romo didn't have a lot of talent around him! There are 3 and a half, bonified, elite talents on that offense!
(no particular order)
1.Witten
2.Romo
3.Owens
and a half - Barber III

Only 2.5 guys on your O is talented not counting Romo??? Barber III is 3rd in the NFL for average per carry with at least 100 carries. Let me repeat that: Barber III is 3rd in the NFL for average per carry with at least 100 carries. If you can't see that he's one of the best in the league, you're Romo blinded.

Witten is the 4th in yards for TEs and 23rd in the league for all pass-catchers.... nuff said.

Patrick Crayton's showing that he belongs in the starting lineup. He's maintaining his career average of 14.6 yrds per catch and is finding the end zone more often (you definitely can't say that Crayton's development is due to Romo cause he was playing well as a 3rd stringer before Romo started). He may not be elite talent, but he's getting there.

And for TO, he's leading the league in yards and second in TDs. And before you say that Romo is the reason for that... check his stats again, 3 of his 4 best season were cut short due to injury, including his best in 2000 (1451 in 14 games).

But then again, how many ball clubs have more than 3 players of elite status on the O side of the ball?

[ImRickJamesB]

Progress? Or that he has an great OLine blocking for him? You've said it yourself that Romo has had time to get a botched snap and turn it into a play (most QBs would be lucky just to land on the ball before someone gets to him). Again, Campbell last year was sacked only 7 times in 7 games. This year, he's been sacked 21 times in 14 games. I don't think it's his decision making instead a lack of time to throw cause of the OLine issues.

You really think the O-Line is the only reason Romo's good?

The Cowboys are tied for 6th in the NFL for Give/Take away, which turns into more opportunities for the offense to score. For your info, the Skins are tied for last in the league, which would explain the tightly called games at the end and terrible play-calling when the game is close.

Yeah, like I said, we're a good team...... The takeaways give as much chance for failure by the offense, as they do for success...

Only 2.5 guys on your O is talented not counting Romo??? Barber III is 3rd in the NFL for average per carry with at least 100 carries. Let me repeat that: Barber III is 3rd in the NFL for average per carry with at least 100 carries. If you can't see that he's one of the best in the league, you're Romo blinded.

I only give Barber "a half" of elite status, because he doesn't carry enough of the load, to be put in the same class as the truly elite RB's (like LT)...

Witten is the 4th in yards for TEs and 23rd in the league for all pass-catchers.... nuff said.

Yep, Witten's a stud........

Patrick Crayton's showing that he belongs in the starting lineup. He's maintaining his career average of 14.6 yrds per catch and is finding the end zone more often (you definitely can't say that Crayton's development is due to Romo cause he was playing well as a 3rd stringer before Romo started). He may not be elite talent, but he's getting there.

Crayton's good, but he's far from elite.... He's an average #2...... I was mentioning only elite players...

And for TO, he's leading the league in yards and second in TDs. And before you say that Romo is the reason for that... check his stats again, 3 of his 4 best season were cut short due to injury, including his best in 2000 (1451 in 14 games).

Bottome-line: He's gonna have the best year of his career, in his 12th season, at 34 years old..... Romo has a ton to do with that.....

But then again, how many ball clubs have more than 3 players of elite status on the O side of the ball?

Yes, they're a good team...... Romo being an elite QB, only makes the other elite players around him better..... What dont you understand about that?

Do you really think, that Romo's just riding the coat-tails of his teammates?




Collins > Campbell

[give_portis_the_rock]

You really think the O-Line is the only reason Romo's good?



Yeah, like I said, we're a good team...... The takeaways give as much chance for failure by the offense, as they do for success...



I only give Barber "a half" of elite status, because he doesn't carry enough of the load, to be put in the same class as the truly elite RB's (like LT)...



Yep, Witten's a stud........



Crayton's good, but he's far from elite.... He's an average #2...... I was mentioning only elite players...



Bottome-line: He's gonna have the best year of his career, in his 12th season, at 34 years old..... Romo has a ton to do with that.....



Yes, they're a good team...... Romo being an elite QB, only makes the other elite players around him better..... What dont you understand about that?

Do you really think, that Romo's just riding the coat-tails of his teammates?




Collins > Campbell

I'm gonna try to ignore your typical "hype up the backup" BS that we have heard so many times from so many idiots in the past decade or so. But as to you "Homo is an elite QB" remark, I'll leave you with this piece of wisdom (http://bangcartoon.com/2007/club.htm).

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Classic, classic, classic. The age-old truism strikes again.

When a team wins, the quarterback gets too much credit. When a team loses, the quarterback gets too much blame.

Put Tom Brady on the Raiders for the past few years. Let's see how many rings he'd have then. What if Patrick Ramsey had been groomed to take over Saunders' offense in KC, behind one of the best lines of the past decade, an absurdly successful running game, and an offense designed to protect an immobile pocket passer with a strong arm? What if Michael Vick hadn't been idioitically pigeonholed into a West Coast offense that played to none of his strengths and all of his weaknesses? What if Tony Romo had been on the bench in Miami instead of Dallas?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that, out of these last three games, Collins is gonna have at least one with a QB rating of under 50. In that game, the line will fail repeatedly, we will have nothing that remotely resembles a running threat, out receivers will drop passes, and there will be at least four or five obvious mental mistakes on the offensive side of the ball. Just like there have been for Campbell, just like there were for Brunell, justl ike there were for Ramsey. And then, yet again, everyone will come in here and blame the quarterback, the coach, and nothing else. "That's why Collins is a career backup," they'll say.

THERE ARE ELEVEN PLAYERS ON OFFENSE. THEY ALL HAVE TO DO THEIR JOBS.

You want our quarterback situation to finally be stable? You want us to finally have a franchise player there? Then start worrying about more than just the quarterback.

[RochesterRed(skin)]

Do you really want to let Jason Campbell throw this much?? Here's some interesting numbers regarding when Campbell's allowed to throw it more than 30 times in a game........

The Skins are now 0-9 in games which Jason Campbell throws over 30 times. In these 9 games, the Skins are only averaging 16.5 points per game. Before last week vs. Dallas, Campbell was averaging 29 pass attempts per game. Yes, he's throwing for more yards, but he's just throwing more, not more efficient. In games in which Campbell throws over 30 passes his yards per attempt goes down to a 6.2 average, with a 58% completion rate, and a passer rating of 80.1........

In the last 2 games Campbell has thrown the ball 103 times for 650 yards. Sounds good right? Well the bottom-line is its accounted for 3 TD's, 3 INT's, and 2 Lost Fumbles by Campbell.

I bet Gibbs reels him back in next week, and (imo) that would be the correct move.

What do y'all think?

We also lost some games when he didn't throw 30 times.

[redskin_rich]

You want our quarterback situation to finally be stable? You want us to finally have a franchise player there? Then start worrying about more than just the quarterback.
The poster that started this thread and keeps reviving it is a Cowgirls fan that seemingly is trolling to incite the other members here. While he makes some valid points, his overall summation is nothing more than his own opinion.

Frankly, he is lucky we have allowed him to post this and keep it going week after week. If one of us went to a Cowboy board condemning one of their players, I am sure that person would be banned.

I'm serving notice right now to ImRickJamesB. You have stated your opinion and put forth stats to support it. Fine but it is too early to tell whether you will be right or not. I want to remind you that as a rival fan, you are a guest on this board, so you will get less tolerance for negativity towards our beloved team than our fellow fans. If you don't like that, go back to your team's boards.

[akhhorus]

The poster that started this thread and keeps reviving it is a Cowgirls fan that seemingly is trolling to incite the other members here. While he makes some valid points, his overall summation is nothing more than his own opinion.

Frankly, he is lucky we have allowed him to post this and keep it going week after week. If one of us went to a Cowboy board condemning one of their players, I am sure that person would be banned.

I'm serving notice right now to ImRickJamesB. You have stated your opinion and put forth stats to support it. Fine but it is too early to tell whether you will be right or not. I want to remind you that as a rival fan, you are a guest on this board, so you will get less tolerance for negativity towards our beloved team than our fellow fans. If you don't like that, go back to your team's boards.

I'd also like to go on record again that I think this is the Reverse double smokescreen(the Basque double bluff) from ImRickJames. I've heard from some Boys' fans who were blown away by Campbell after the Dallas game, so I'm guessing IcantfindanoriginaljokeB is trying to sow some dissent on Campbell because he's worried about him.

[greatest2]

I'd also like to go on record again that I think this is the Reverse double smokescreen(the Basque double bluff) from ImRickJames. I've heard from some Boys' fans who were blown away by Campbell after the Dallas game, so I'm guessing IcantfindanoriginaljokeB is trying to sow some dissent on Campbell because he's worried about him.

agreed

[greatest2]

I'd also like to go on record again that I think this is the Reverse double smokescreen(the Basque double bluff) from ImRickJames. I've heard from some Boys' fans who were blown away by Campbell after the Dallas game, so I'm guessing IcantfindanoriginaljokeB is trying to sow some dissent on Campbell because he's worried about him.

oh, and classic:)

[akhhorus]

oh, and classic:)

Thanks. In my America, jokes like that would be changed after the show is over and hasn't become "classic" yet lol.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Thanks. In my America, jokes like that would be changed after the show is over and hasn't become "classic" yet lol.

That joke stopped being funny the moment someone other than Dave Chappelle repeated it...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'd also like to go on record again that I think this is the Reverse double smokescreen(the Basque double bluff) from ImRickJames. I've heard from some Boys' fans who were blown away by Campbell after the Dallas game, so I'm guessing IcantfindanoriginaljokeB is trying to sow some dissent on Campbell because he's worried about him.

His motives are quite transparent.

[ImRickJamesB]

The poster that started this thread and keeps reviving it is a Cowgirls fan that seemingly is trolling to incite the other members here. While he makes some valid points, his overall summation is nothing more than his own opinion.

I dont think I acted alone in this thread.... I didn't think I was trolling, just thought we were all having an ongoing discussion..... True, it is mostly my opinion... Though I do my best, to bring what little factual evidence there is, right to the forefront.

Frankly, he is lucky we have allowed him to post this and keep it going week after week. If one of us went to a Cowboy board condemning one of their players, I am sure that person would be banned.

Again, I dont think I was the only person that kept this thread going, but I do understand that this is beside the point..... I do understand that I'm the oddball here..... And frankly, I DO feel lucky to be a member of this forum! (honestly)
My intentions are not to ruin anyone's experience here.......

I'm serving notice right now to ImRickJamesB. You have stated your opinion and put forth stats to support it. Fine but it is too early to tell whether you will be right or not. I want to remind you that as a rival fan, you are a guest on this board, so you will get less tolerance for negativity towards our beloved team than our fellow fans. If you don't like that, go back to your team's boards.

First let me say, that I appreciate you giving me a warning before banning me........ Who would've missed one less Dallas fan anyway?

Please, if any of you mods ever find me out of line, just let me know... I'll conform promptly! I dont want to get banned! I want to be able to come here later this year, when we play in week 17, and then next year, and the year after that, and so on... This is the best Redskins forum!

Sorry if I was being too much.... I intended no disrespect to any of you, nor to your team, nor to this forum...

Point taken, I'll chill out....:)

[akhhorus]

Tony Rhomo threw the ball over 30 times, had 3 INTs, a bunch of sacks and a couple fumbles. To top it off, the Cowboys lost to a clearly inferior team! When are you Dallas fans going to stop cutting him slack and hold him accountable? ;)

[redskin_rich]

Tony Rhomo threw the ball over 30 times, had 3 INTs, a bunch of sacks and a couple fumbles. To top it off, the Cowboys lost to a clearly inferior team! When are you Dallas fans going to stop cutting him slack and hold him accountable? ;)

Even Jessica had her hands over her head in shame... that was, until she disappeared in the 4th quarter. I guess Romo got no soup tonight, lol.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Even Jessica had her hands over her head in shame... that was, until she disappeared in the 4th quarter. I guess Romo got no soup tonight, lol.

Broadway Joe he aint...

[akhhorus]

Even Jessica had her hands over her head in shame... that was, until she disappeared in the 4th quarter. I guess Romo got no soup tonight, lol.

And of course she had to be predictable and have the pink jersey on. Rhomo can do better, unless she's..."cover"...

[WarEagle]

Even Jessica had her hands over her head in shame... that was, until she disappeared in the 4th quarter. I guess Romo got no soup tonight, lol.

I'm not sure I'd go anywhere that Johnny Knoxville had been before.

Anybody else put off by Jessica's creepy stage father angling for face time whenever the cameras showed her? She needs a restraining order against that guy.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'm not sure I'd go anywhere that Johnny Knoxville had been before.

Anybody else put off by Jessica's creepy stage father angling for face time whenever the cameras showed her? She needs a restraining order against that guy.

I think Joe Simpson is very normal. How about this quote from a GQ article.

“Jessica never tries to be sexy. … She just is sexy. If you put her in a T-shirt or you put her in a bustier, she’s sexy in both. She’s got double D’s! You can’t cover those suckers up!"

[give_portis_the_rock]

I think Joe Simpson is very normal. How about this quote from a GQ article.

“Jessica never tries to be sexy. … She just is sexy. If you put her in a T-shirt or you put her in a bustier, she’s sexy in both. She’s got double D’s! You can’t cover those suckers up!"

What?



What?

Her FATHER said that?
:smash:

[greatest2]

anybody else get really happy watching homo on the sidelines angry and silent?

that may sound bad, but its about time something doesn't go his way. i always get pissed sometimes with how lucky he gets (balls snap over his head, wierd bounces, no injuries to his offense really).

Also, i was happy to see TO give a slight blowup. Comeon TO i been baking on you tearing that team apart. you gotta come through

[redskin_rich]

And of course she had to be predictable and have the pink jersey on. Rhomo can do better, unless she's..."cover"...

A certain scene from the movie Me, Myself and Irene comes to mind... I can't say it but it went something like -- "And what is this?", "you used that on yourself."
:D

[ImRickJamesB]

Tony Rhomo threw the ball over 30 times, had 3 INTs, a bunch of sacks and a couple fumbles. To top it off, the Cowboys lost to a clearly inferior team! When are you Dallas fans going to stop cutting him slack and hold him accountable? ;)

What are you trying to make my points for me?

Btw, where were you last week, or the week before that, ect.?? Took awhile for Romo to have a bad game, didn't it....... It's safe to come out, now that Campbell's on the shelf for the rest of the season...... No risk of him stinking it up anymore this season....

As for accountability....?.... Yes, and you should try it sometime!
I think Romo's 80% accountable for this loss! He is definitely the main reason we lost! He played horrible! Worst game of his career! However, he's also the primary reason we've won 12 outta 14!

You see, I could be like you guys and make all the lame excuses in the world....
1. His poor little thumb
2. His starting Center went down
3. The WR's had drops
4. He didn't have his #2 WR
5. Jason Garrett totally abandoned the run, when we were within 4 points
6. The OL didn't give him good protection

Or how about this garbage......
He's still a young QB!
This is his first year as starter!
Look at Peyton Mannings stats for his first season!
He's still learning!
You have to expect games like this with a QB that's pratically a rookie, at least in terms of experience!

Now doesn't all that ^ sound rediculous?!?! Well, it sounds just as rediculous when you guys say it!

There was plenty of plays to made out there today, and Romo didn't make any of them!

You see, when your QB has actually PROVEN that he is in fact very good, then you tend to expect a lot more from him, instead of making excuses for him!

I swear, I thought I was watching Jason Campbell out there! With all those over-throws, fumbles, that redzone INT, and then the game clinching INT.... That's all vintage Campbell..........

All QB's have games like this, but unlike Campbell, Romo has a track record of being a winner and winning games for this team! I'm actually glad he got it out of his system before the paloffs start..... If he plays anywhere close to this on Saturday, then I'll be worried..... Just as you all should be about Campbell!

I saw one of your posts recently, in which you called Campbell's progression "BREATHTAKING"....:readme: I was ROTFLMFAO!!
So if Campbell's progression is "BREATHTAKING", how would you summarize Romo's progression???

Romo sucked today, but don't get it twisted..............

ROMO > Jason Campbell

Todd Collins > Jason campbell



BTW, I hope you guys win next week....... That way we can (and will) be the team that keeps you out of the paloffs............

[redwolf1218]

Romo is really good most of the time, but all i can say is, when Romo decides to have a bad game, he makes it really bad.

i think Campbell will be really good next year and beyond. bottom line, i would not trade Campbell straight up for Romo right now because i think Campbell will be better in the long run. he might not have had the success that Romo has had, but he has not had the supporting cast or the time in the system that Romo has had either.

for all the good games that Romo has had, he has had some really bad games that are worse than any of Campbell's worst games.

[akhhorus]

What are you trying to make my points for me?

Btw, where were you last week, or the week before that, ect.?? Took awhile for Romo to have a bad game, didn't it....... It's safe to come out, now that Campbell's on the shelf for the rest of the season...... No risk of him stinking it up anymore this season....

As for accountability....?.... Yes, and you should try it sometime!
I think Romo's 80% accountable for this loss! He is definitely the main reason we lost! He played horrible! Worst game of his career! However, he's also the primary reason we've won 12 outta 14!

You see, I could be like you guys and make all the lame excuses in the world....
1. His poor little thumb
2. His starting Center went down
3. The WR's had drops
4. He didn't have his #2 WR
5. Jason Garrett totally abandoned the run, when we were within 4 points
6. The OL didn't give him good protection

Or how about this garbage......
He's still a young QB!
This is his first year as starter!
Look at Peyton Mannings stats for his first season!
He's still learning!
You have to expect games like this with a QB that's pratically a rookie, at least in terms of experience!

Now doesn't all that ^ sound rediculous?!?! Well, it sounds just as rediculous when you guys say it!

There was plenty of plays to made out there today, and Romo didn't make any of them!

You see, when your QB has actually PROVEN that he is in fact very good, then you tend to expect a lot more from him, instead of making excuses for him!

I swear, I thought I was watching Jason Campbell out there! With all those over-throws, fumbles, that redzone INT, and then the game clinching INT.... That's all vintage Campbell..........

All QB's have games like this, but unlike Campbell, Romo has a track record of being a winner and winning games for this team! I'm actually glad he got it out of his system before the paloffs start..... If he plays anywhere close to this on Saturday, then I'll be worried..... Just as you all should be about Campbell!

I saw one of your posts recently, in which you called Campbell's progression "BREATHTAKING"....:readme: I was ROTFLMFAO!!
So if Campbell's progression is "BREATHTAKING", how would you summarize Romo's progression???

Romo sucked today, but don't get it twisted..............

ROMO > Jason Campbell

Todd Collins > Jason campbell



BTW, I hope you guys win next week....... That way we can (and will) be the team that keeps you out of the paloffs............

*yawn* back to your same trolling, eh? Learn how to spell ridiculous(but you are a cowboys fan).

And what are you? 12 year old with all you lame smileys, bad spelling, terrible grammar and such?

[akhhorus]

Romo is really good most of the time, but all i can say is, when Romo decides to have a bad game, he makes it really bad.

i think Campbell will be really good next year and beyond. bottom line, i would not trade Campbell straight up for Romo right now because i think Campbell will be better in the long run. he might not have had the success that Romo has had, but he has not had the supporting cast or the time in the system that Romo has had either.

for all the good games that Romo has had, he has had some really bad games that are worse than any of Campbell's worst games.

Put Campbell with that offense and offensive coaching, does anyone seriously think he wouldn't repeat what Romo is doing?

[esmith1790]

Put Campbell with that offense and offensive coaching, does anyone seriously think he wouldn't repeat what Romo is doing?


No i dont think Campbell would have the same success. he would be better then what his production would be with the skins, but no what the boys have done. Romo has been agile in the pocket and done enough to still get the ball down field.

[RedskinsDave]

No i dont think Campbell would have the same success. he would be better then what his production would be with the skins, but no what the boys have done. Romo has been agile in the pocket and done enough to still get the ball down field.

Campbell wouldn't turn the ball over 6 times in one game either. I love how when Romo is bad, he is REALLY bad.

[esmith1790]

Campbell wouldn't turn the ball over 6 times in one game either. I love how when Romo is bad, he is REALLY bad.

so to be average in most game or really bad in a few games and great in others?

I still think you would take the great play versus just average play.

[akhhorus]

No i dont think Campbell would have the same success. he would be better then what his production would be with the skins, but no what the boys have done. Romo has been agile in the pocket and done enough to still get the ball down field.

Romo has amazing instincts in the pocket, and ability to improvise(which has been the bedrock of his success in the NFL): but Campbell has him beat in arm strength, accuracy, running ability, sheer talent, etc. Its a counterfactual, but if you gave Campbell those weapons and a scheme designed to maximize his tools like Dallas does with Romo, he would be looking as good.

[redwolf1218]

No i dont think Campbell would have the same success. he would be better then what his production would be with the skins, but no what the boys have done. Romo has been agile in the pocket and done enough to still get the ball down field.

i think Campbell would have had the same success or better, but my point is, Campbell would not have had the terrible games that Romo has has at crucial times. when Romo is bad, he is really bad, and Campbell has never been that bad, not to that extent.

Campbell has more raw skills. he is more mobile and he has a stronger arm, just not as much time in a system and not as much experience.

like i said before, the bottom line is, if you offered me Romo for Campbell straight up, i would not take it.

on a side note, i would not take anyone for Sean Taylor straight up, not Roy Williams, not Reed, not Palamalu. and as of right now, with the potential Landry has shown, i would not take anyone for him either.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

What are you trying to make my points for me?

Btw, where were you last week, or the week before that, ect.?? Took awhile for Romo to have a bad game, didn't it....... It's safe to come out, now that Campbell's on the shelf for the rest of the season...... No risk of him stinking it up anymore this season....

As for accountability....?.... Yes, and you should try it sometime!
I think Romo's 80% accountable for this loss! He is definitely the main reason we lost! He played horrible! Worst game of his career! However, he's also the primary reason we've won 12 outta 14!

You see, I could be like you guys and make all the lame excuses in the world....
1. His poor little thumb
2. His starting Center went down
3. The WR's had drops
4. He didn't have his #2 WR
5. Jason Garrett totally abandoned the run, when we were within 4 points
6. The OL didn't give him good protection

Or how about this garbage......
He's still a young QB!
This is his first year as starter!
Look at Peyton Mannings stats for his first season!
He's still learning!
You have to expect games like this with a QB that's pratically a rookie, at least in terms of experience!

Now doesn't all that ^ sound rediculous?!?! Well, it sounds just as rediculous when you guys say it!

There was plenty of plays to made out there today, and Romo didn't make any of them!

You see, when your QB has actually PROVEN that he is in fact very good, then you tend to expect a lot more from him, instead of making excuses for him!

I swear, I thought I was watching Jason Campbell out there! With all those over-throws, fumbles, that redzone INT, and then the game clinching INT.... That's all vintage Campbell..........

All QB's have games like this, but unlike Campbell, Romo has a track record of being a winner and winning games for this team! I'm actually glad he got it out of his system before the paloffs start..... If he plays anywhere close to this on Saturday, then I'll be worried..... Just as you all should be about Campbell!

I saw one of your posts recently, in which you called Campbell's progression "BREATHTAKING"....:readme: I was ROTFLMFAO!!
So if Campbell's progression is "BREATHTAKING", how would you summarize Romo's progression???

Romo sucked today, but don't get it twisted..............

ROMO > Jason Campbell

Todd Collins > Jason campbell



BTW, I hope you guys win next week....... That way we can (and will) be the team that keeps you out of the paloffs............
[Mora Voice]

Paloffs!? PALOFFS!!!???

[/Mora Voice]

[esmith1790]

Romo has amazing instincts in the pocket, and ability to improvise(which has been the bedrock of his success in the NFL): but Campbell has him beat in arm strength, accuracy, running ability, sheer talent, etc. Its a counterfactual, but if you gave Campbell those weapons and a scheme designed to maximize his tools like Dallas does with Romo, he would be looking as good.

I give you strength,running ablility and maybe sheer talent, but talent alone doesnt always get it done in the NFL, that has been proven over time. Accuracy? i have to give that to Romo, he has over a 7% higher completion percentage for his career and 174 more pass attempts.
Also, that is with TO leading the league in drops in 2006 and have several this year as well.

to prevent and futher hi-jacking of this thread, please feel free to PM if needed.

[akhhorus]

I give you strength,running ablility and maybe sheer talent, but talent alone doesnt always get it done in the NFL, that has been proven over time.

And I didn't say that its a guarantee that Campbell will be better than Romo at the end of the day. Campbell is the next of the new breed QBs built like Big Ben: Big, mobile, cannon arm, smart. How good he becomes is dependent on Gibbs and Al Saunders. I don't think Romo can be much better than what he is now(and he's a pro bowler), I think Campbell, in the perfect storm, could become much better.

Accuracy? i have to give that to Romo, he has over a 7% higher completion percentage for his career and 174 more pass attempts.

Accuracy isn't gauged only in completion percentage.

Also, that is with TO leading the league in drops in 2006 and have several this year as well.

And Moss doesn't have major drops issues? I'm betting Moss leads the league this year in drops. That's killed Campbell's completion percentage this year.

to prevent and futher hi-jacking of this thread, please feel free to PM if needed.

No, this is relevant.

[redwolf1218]

I give you strength,running ablility and maybe sheer talent, but talent alone doesnt always get it done in the NFL, that has been proven over time. Accuracy? i have to give that to Romo, he has over a 7% higher completion percentage for his career and 174 more pass attempts.
Also, that is with TO leading the league in drops in 2006 and have several this year as well.

to prevent and futher hi-jacking of this thread, please feel free to PM if needed.

no offense, but why do you post on this site?

[esmith1790]

no offense, but why do you post on this site?

I post here to get real info about the skins and to see what people are saying. I also see posts about the cowboys that are related to national media verus local news in dallas. I try to bring local insight about the cowboys instead of the national media.

[redwolf1218]

I post here to get real info about the skins and to see what people are saying. I also see posts about the cowboys that are related to national media verus local news in dallas. I try to bring local insight about the cowboys instead of the national media.

i would think you could get info on the cowboys on the cowboys site.

[RedskinsDave]

I post here to get real info about the skins and to see what people are saying. I also see posts about the cowboys that are related to national media verus local news in dallas. I try to bring local insight about the cowboys instead of the national media.

While you're not a troll, you are a little much of a homer. All your guys are better than all of ours. We get it.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

What are you trying to make my points for me?

Btw, where were you last week, or the week before that, ect.?? Took awhile for Romo to have a bad game, didn't it....... It's safe to come out, now that Campbell's on the shelf for the rest of the season...... No risk of him stinking it up anymore this season....

As for accountability....?.... Yes, and you should try it sometime!
I think Romo's 80% accountable for this loss! He is definitely the main reason we lost! He played horrible! Worst game of his career! However, he's also the primary reason we've won 12 outta 14!

You see, I could be like you guys and make all the lame excuses in the world....
1. His poor little thumb
2. His starting Center went down
3. The WR's had drops
4. He didn't have his #2 WR
5. Jason Garrett totally abandoned the run, when we were within 4 points
6. The OL didn't give him good protection

Or how about this garbage......
He's still a young QB!
This is his first year as starter!
Look at Peyton Mannings stats for his first season!
He's still learning!
You have to expect games like this with a QB that's pratically a rookie, at least in terms of experience!

Now doesn't all that ^ sound rediculous?!?! Well, it sounds just as rediculous when you guys say it!

There was plenty of plays to made out there today, and Romo didn't make any of them!

You see, when your QB has actually PROVEN that he is in fact very good, then you tend to expect a lot more from him, instead of making excuses for him!

I swear, I thought I was watching Jason Campbell out there! With all those over-throws, fumbles, that redzone INT, and then the game clinching INT.... That's all vintage Campbell..........

All QB's have games like this, but unlike Campbell, Romo has a track record of being a winner and winning games for this team! I'm actually glad he got it out of his system before the paloffs start..... If he plays anywhere close to this on Saturday, then I'll be worried..... Just as you all should be about Campbell!

I saw one of your posts recently, in which you called Campbell's progression "BREATHTAKING"....:readme: I was ROTFLMFAO!!
So if Campbell's progression is "BREATHTAKING", how would you summarize Romo's progression???

Romo sucked today, but don't get it twisted..............

ROMO > Jason Campbell

Todd Collins > Jason campbell



BTW, I hope you guys win next week....... That way we can (and will) be the team that keeps you out of the paloffs............

Wow you are upset. Romo really let you down.

[RedskinsDave]

Now doesn't all that ^ sound rediculous?!?! Well, it sounds just as rediculous when you guys say it!


You be smert.

[redwolf1218]

I give you strength,running ablility and maybe sheer talent, but talent alone doesnt always get it done in the NFL, that has been proven over time. Accuracy? i have to give that to Romo, he has over a 7% higher completion percentage for his career and 174 more pass attempts.
Also, that is with TO leading the league in drops in 2006 and have several this year as well.

to prevent and futher hi-jacking of this thread, please feel free to PM if needed.

174 more pass attempts? that should tell you something.

[redwolf1218]

What are you trying to make my points for me?

Btw, where were you last week, or the week before that, ect.?? Took awhile for Romo to have a bad game, didn't it....... It's safe to come out, now that Campbell's on the shelf for the rest of the season...... No risk of him stinking it up anymore this season....

As for accountability....?.... Yes, and you should try it sometime!
I think Romo's 80% accountable for this loss! He is definitely the main reason we lost! He played horrible! Worst game of his career! However, he's also the primary reason we've won 12 outta 14!

You see, I could be like you guys and make all the lame excuses in the world....
1. His poor little thumb
2. His starting Center went down
3. The WR's had drops
4. He didn't have his #2 WR
5. Jason Garrett totally abandoned the run, when we were within 4 points
6. The OL didn't give him good protection

Or how about this garbage......
He's still a young QB!
This is his first year as starter!
Look at Peyton Mannings stats for his first season!
He's still learning!
You have to expect games like this with a QB that's pratically a rookie, at least in terms of experience!

Now doesn't all that ^ sound rediculous?!?! Well, it sounds just as rediculous when you guys say it!

There was plenty of plays to made out there today, and Romo didn't make any of them!

You see, when your QB has actually PROVEN that he is in fact very good, then you tend to expect a lot more from him, instead of making excuses for him!

I swear, I thought I was watching Jason Campbell out there! With all those over-throws, fumbles, that redzone INT, and then the game clinching INT.... That's all vintage Campbell..........

All QB's have games like this, but unlike Campbell, Romo has a track record of being a winner and winning games for this team! I'm actually glad he got it out of his system before the paloffs start..... If he plays anywhere close to this on Saturday, then I'll be worried..... Just as you all should be about Campbell!

I saw one of your posts recently, in which you called Campbell's progression "BREATHTAKING"....:readme: I was ROTFLMFAO!!
So if Campbell's progression is "BREATHTAKING", how would you summarize Romo's progression???

Romo sucked today, but don't get it twisted..............

ROMO > Jason Campbell

Todd Collins > Jason campbell



BTW, I hope you guys win next week....... That way we can (and will) be the team that keeps you out of the paloffs............

this is not a chat room.

[HAWGZHEAD]

You be smert.
lol I need to go and ri-riad that post.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Campbell wouldn't turn the ball over 6 times in one game either. I love how when Romo is bad, he is REALLY bad.

I hope he is real bad come playoff time :D

[WarEagle]

A certain scene from the movie Me, Myself and Irene comes to mind... I can't say it but it went something like -- "And what is this?", "you used that on yourself."
:D

I watched that scene on normal TV, not cable, and they actually digitized the offending object out of the scene. It was just a big blur. And I mean big. ;)

[WarEagle]

anybody else get really happy watching homo on the sidelines angry and silent?

I noticed the repeated shots of Romo on the bench. Honestly folks, he looked ill. Made me wonder if he had a stomach virus or something that he was hiding.

[RedskinsDave]

I noticed the repeated shots of Romo on the bench. Honestly folks, he looked ill. Made me wonder if he had a stomach virus or something that he was hiding.

The clap does not produce visible symptoms like that.

[hessy36]

The clap does not produce visible symptoms like that.

LOL.... too funny...

[akhhorus]

I hate to bring up an old thread, but I have to ask. ImRickJamesB:

What do you think of Campbell now?

[Farmer Ted]

Well, he did mention in a post last week that he was impressed by JC's play this season. I doubt his opinion has changed.

[JasonCampbell]

great bump, although the throws JC is making in this offense are much more different than the throws he was making in Gibbs/Saunders offense.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

This thread reminds me. Where has Hessy been?