One More Year!!!!

[Redskinmayhem]

Ok, before I get flamed incessantly, hear me out. I think we need to give Gibbs and Co. 1 more year. Think about it - Are we really that far off from being a contender for the Division title? Before you scoff at that question, look at the facts. No team other than NE and maybe the Cowpukes have actually "beaten" us. We've played well enough to win those games but due to mental error, coaching errors or players simply not executing, we've not been able to close those games out. I think that with a little bit of a philosophy change by Gibbs, we could be a team that Clearly beats the teams we should beat, pulls out tough wins over competitive teams and at least be competitive against a team like NE. We really aren't that far off. I think that Gibbs needs to take a bit of a step back from the in game responsibilities. We're paying AS and GW tons of money so we should let them earn their Checks. Fixing our communications problem is a must too. Hell, I'd even throw in a true GM to start preparing for when Gibbs is gone.

Think about what 1 more year of development would do for JCamp and the chemistry between he and his WR's. Think about getting the OLine back intact and healthy. Think about maybe finding a few good draft picks to fill areas of need and depth. Then think about tying it all together with a couple of young, hungry FA acquisitions. Lastly, think about getting back to full health this off-season. We were bitten badly by the injury bug this year so I doubt that we'll get it as bad next year. The odds just don't favor another injury riddled season. I think that given that chance, Gibbs will adjust and learn from his mistakes this past season. I think that he is smart enough to see what he's done wrong and that next year would be his last run at a title. I'm confident he'll adjust.

Continuity in all aspects of the team is something that we can't take for granted. I hated the days of LaVar complaining about a 4 different DC in 4 years. I'd rather not hear those complaints again. If Gibbs leaves now, so does pretty much any chance at a competitive run next year.

This year is pretty much a wash at 7 losses. Even if we did somehow sneak into the post-season, this team in its current state has not demonstrated that it can be a "winning" post season caliber team. I know many of you want to start fresh next year but I think that would be detrimental to the development of many of the young players on this team. So looking forward to next year, What draft picks do we have? Who is a FA? RFA? Who do we need to sign to a long-term deal?

I'm not ready to throw Gibbs and Co. under the buss just yet but I am fully aware that we need to make some serious changes if there is to be any hope for next year.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Ok, before I get flamed incessantly, hear me out. I think we need to give Gibbs and Co. 1 more year. Think about it - Are we really that far off from being a contender for the Division title?
Yes.

[Redskinmayhem]

Yes.
I know yesterday was upsetting (relative to football) but come on. We've got a good foundation here. We've got a good O-Line when healthy, good to very good skill position players, a developing young QB. We're close. Not close enough for this year but maybe next.

[smoak]

I'm all for "one more year" depending on whether or not Gibbs still has the lockerroom.

IF we start over, we should focus on getting every over 30 player off the roster and truly rebuild. I know spick said teams can rebound quickly, but I don't believe sustained success will be accomplished with a band aid. I want to go through cap hell and get all the Lloyds off the books. Santana and Portis? Gone. Samuels? Gone. In fact, here are the players I would keep:

Albright
Alexander
Blades
Campbell (Jason)
Carter (but not for much longer)
Rock and Rocky
Cooley
Doughty (not as a starter)
Eubanks
Montgomery and Golston
Heyer
Landry
Mix
Pucillo (as a reserve)
Torrence
Rogers
Wilson

The rest of the young cats (practice squad and IR) could come back to compete for a job.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I'm all for "one more year" depending on whether or not Gibbs still has the lockerroom.

IF we start over, we should focus on getting every over 30 player off the roster and truly rebuild. I know spick said teams can rebound quickly, but I don't believe sustained success will be accomplished with a band aid. I want to go through cap hell and get all the Lloyds off the books. Santana and Portis? Gone. Samuels? Gone. In fact, here are the players I would keep:

Albright
Alexander
Blades
Campbell (Jason)
Carter (but not for much longer)
Rock and Rocky
Cooley
Doughty (not as a starter)
Eubanks
Montgomery and Golston
Heyer
Landry
Mix
Pucillo (as a reserve)
Torrence
Rogers
Wilson

The rest of the young cats (practice squad and IR) could come back to compete for a job.
Absolutely. 100% agree. But even if you start over from scratch, it's not impossible to become a very good team in a year or two max.

[Keino]

No thanks. We can be mediocre with someone else without further tarnishing the coach's legacy. It was well intentioned, but I think it safe to say that we are no better off now than we were in January 2004, save for some much needed continuity.

[WarEagle]

It's really only appropriate to say hopefully that they were "in" every loss when your team has lost maybe 3 or 4 games. Not this many.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I know yesterday was upsetting (relative to football) but come on. We've got a good foundation here. We've got a good O-Line when healthy, good to very good skill position players, a developing young QB. We're close. Not close enough for this year but maybe next.
You say we have a good foundation, and then name the o-line, the skill position players, and the QB.
Well:
-the o-line has 0 starters under the age of 30. How is that a good foundation for anything?
-we have 0 receivers that are neither old or very fragile. In fact, we don't have a single receiver in the top 40 in the league. The only skill position player that can be counted on to contribute for alot more years is Cooley.
-the QB is yes developing, but obviously is not ready to lead us to a Super Bowl without major help.

I honestly think you are vastly overrating our roster. To think we are "close" to something when we have had a losing record after Week 11 in every single season of Gibbs 4.0 is a bit insane IMO.

[CNYSkinFan]

I'm all for "one more year" depending on whether or not Gibbs still has the lockerroom.

IF we start over, we should focus on getting every over 30 player off the roster and truly rebuild. I know spick said teams can rebound quickly, but I don't believe sustained success will be accomplished with a band aid. I want to go through cap hell and get all the Lloyds off the books. Santana and Portis? Gone. Samuels? Gone. In fact, here are the players I would keep:

Albright
Alexander
Blades
Campbell (Jason)
Carter (but not for much longer)
Rock and Rocky
Cooley
Doughty (not as a starter)
Eubanks
Montgomery and Golston
Heyer
Landry
Mix
Pucillo (as a reserve)
Torrence
Rogers
Wilson

The rest of the young cats (practice squad and IR) could come back to compete for a job.

I think my list is a little different. If we start to rebuild, here is where I Start:

Jason Campbell
Clinton Portis (still one of the better backs in the NFL and still young, when the blocks arer there he makes yards)
Rock Cartwright
Mike Sellers (one of the best FB in the game)
Stephon Heyer
Casey Rabach
Pete Kandell
Chris Samuels
Antwaan Randle-El
Reche Caldwell
Andre Carter
Anthony Montgomery
Lorenzo Alexander
HB Blades
Rocky McIntosh
Carlos Rogers (maybe)
Fred Smoot (the only player playing with heart yesterday)
Laron Landry
Sean Suisham
Derrick Frost (maybe)

The rest can either take major pay cuts or if already cheap, compete for jobs.

[wewantdallas]

I lean toward keeping Gibbs around if he's up for it, but it has nothing to do with the Xs and Os, as I agree with Spicy and most others here.

My reasons are purely emotional and probably not totally rational. Gibbs in his first go-round gave me some of the best memories of my life. The thought of him going out as a doddering failure after the worst season in franchise history (when you factor in the ST death, which trumps everything) to me will leave a huge scar on the franchise FOREVER. Every time you think of Gibbs, it'll be, "Yeah, he was great the first time, but geez he was an embarrassing failure the second go-round and he left in virtual disgrace after the entire franchise seemed to crumble."

That's not how I want to remember the guy's final tour of duty here. To me, it's almost worth risking another year of this kind of football if there's a possibility that he can turn the corner with this team next year and get us to the postseason and back to respectability. That's how much the guy means to me.

If you weren't old enough to remember his entire first tenure (I was with him from 1980 on), then I totally underestand the disgust. I would share it. I'm close to sharing it NOW. But man, I just hate to see this guy go out after a season that is as utter a debacle as you could ever hope to see in sports.

To me, it rests on one factor, and Smoak hit on it. Do the players still believe in him, trust him, respect him. If the answer to that is no, then no matter how I feel, it probably is time for him to step down. If it's "yes," then I'm willing to risk another year of this for the sake of how I remember the greatest coach in franchise history.

[Hr fan]

Yes.

Amen. 6-10, 10-6, 5-11, and either 6-10 or 5-11 this year (Minny has improved and wiped Det, NYG are 7-4, Dallass 10-1, and the Bears should have beat the Gints last night). If you will, we are the lesser among equals with a demonstrated proficiency at finding ways to lose (5 games when leading at 1/2, for heaven's sake!). Take out that 5 game streak in 2005 and over the last 60 games we have been remarkably consistent, and this is not a good thing.

[BigCountry]

I think from an X's and O's standpoint we're overanalyzing a bit. We do need a pass rusher on defense for next year and probably a free safety but other then that we should turn all our attention towards fixing the O-line. The way we approach things means that we're basically sinking and swiming with the run game and if we can get Thomas healthy next year, get one more good year out of Kendall and maybe find a replacement for Jansen, it should be looking alot better then this year. Getting the line back to the way it played at the end of last year will cure everything that ails us on offense and should really be our first priority.

[smoak]

Absolutely. 100% agree. But even if you start over from scratch, it's not impossible to become a very good team in a year or two max.


Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE, but I would certainly describe it as improbable. It would be unrealistic to expect a turn around that quickly.

Look at the Niners. Have they made the playoffs since their cap hell? I think the best we could hope for is a Raven-like scenario.

[Spence]

Are we really that far off from being a contender for the Division title?Yes, we are. We need a new coaching staff [mostly], a real front office, offensive line depth, at least one more pass rusher, at least one more cornerback, another safety. That's a lot. The Redskins are close to a division title only if the Cowboys and Giants lose most of their good players to injury. The Redskins just lost at home to an awful Bills team. The Redskins have lost 4 in a row. They can't execute their red zone offense. They can't figure out when to call timeouts. They can't make plays when they need to make them.

The Redskins are a bad team.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE, but I would certainly describe it as improbable. It would be unrealistic to expect a turn around that quickly.

Look at the Niners. Have they made the playoffs since their cap hell? I think the best we could hope for is a Raven-like scenario.
The key is the QB. We have to figure out sooner rather than later if he is a Pro-Bowl caliber QB. If he is, the most important piece is in place, and the others are not that difficult to find. The teams that have quick turnarounds often do so because they find themselves a Pro-Bowl QB and that stabilizes everything else (see Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. etc.).

[Spence]

Just for the record, "continuity" is the argument you make when you've got no good arguments to make. And in our case, it sounds preposterous. Continuity? You really want more of this? Gibbs is in his 4th year since returning. His offense is no better now than it was when he got here. His defense is worse than it was in 2004. How many more years of losing and incompetence would satisfy you?

[Spence]

By the way, Norv Turner won a greater percentage of games with the Redskins than Joe Gibbs has since 2004. Maybe we should bring Turner back, eh?

[Keino]

Just for the record, "continuity" is the argument you make when you've got no good arguments to make. And in our case, it sounds preposterous. Continuity? You really want more of this? Gibbs is in his 4th year since returning. His offense is no better now than it was when he got here. His defense is worse than it was in 2004. How many more years of losing and incompetence would satisfy you?

The Continuity argument was valid in the beginning of his tenure as coach. Why? Because a contributing factor to the "culture of losing" was a lack of continuity and direction. It seemed there was a change in coaching and/or regime every year, and that is no recipe for success. In 2008 (Well 2007 technically, but evaluation of things happens post-season) it is not a valid argument. Stabilization is not what is needed at this point, but rather a spike in production is what is needed.

[Spence]

The Continuity argument was valid in the beginning of his tenure as coach. Why? Because a contributing factor to the "culture of losing" was a lack of continuity and direction. It seemed there was a change in coaching and/or regime every year, and that is no recipe for success. In 2008 (Well 2007 technically, but evaluation of things happens post-season) it is not a valid argument. Stabilization is not what is needed at this point, but rather a spike in production is what is needed.Keino, the continuity argument only makes sense if some progress is being made. As in: "Maybe the team would improve faster with a new coaching staff, but we're making some progress now so let's see how it goes." The Redskins are not making progress. They're actually regressing. Advocating continuity in regression isn't an argument, it's madness.

[smoak]

I think my list is a little different. If we start to rebuild, here is where I Start:

The rest can either take major pay cuts or if already cheap, compete for jobs.

I'm with you on Smoot getting a chance, but Portis my friend is far from an elite back in this league. Yes the O-line let him down yesterday, but if you think his play warrants 1/10 of his salary, then I don't know what to tell you. Throw stats out the window and just watch Barber, Peterson, Tomlinson, and Westbrrok... Those are elite backs. Portis simply doesn't have the explosion. I love the guy and I wish it were not tru, but he has had two great games for us this year and how many last year??? For a team that lives on runnning the football, he is NOT good enough.

I LOVE Sellers, but he is also vastly overrated by Skins fans. So he ran over a couple safties... Great! I loved it as much as the next guy, but he is aging quickly... For every catch he probably has more than one drop (sure Jason needs to learn to put a little touch on the ball but still). Now I think part of the problems in the run game would have been solved with him in there yesterday... But if you are cleaning house you have to make tough decisions and he is no spring chicken.

Again keep in mind that my first choice would be to bring everyone back for one last year... But if we make change, I am in favor of massive changes that will cause us to be like 1-15 next year.

[shally]

it is time...

after the season, clean house and do it right this time

start with a proven nfl personnel man, let him select a young aggressive
head coach. given that we already have a franchise qb, i would favor an offensive man, but perhaps a defensive guy in the mold of the steelers new coach would be fine

clean the roster. down to the bare bones and build around those guys

collect draft picks by trading down wherever possible but build from the lines

[RedskinsDave]

By the way, Norv Turner won a greater percentage of games with the Redskins than Joe Gibbs has since 2004. Maybe we should bring Turner back, eh?

That's about the worst statistic anyone could state.

[CNYSkinFan]

I'm with you on Smoot getting a chance, but Portis my friend is far from an elite back in this league. Yes the O-line let him down yesterday, but if you think his play warrants 1/10 of his salary, then I don't know what to tell you. Throw stats out the window and just watch Barber, Peterson, Tomlinson, and Westbrrok... Those are elite backs. Portis simply doesn't have the explosion. I love the guy and I wish it were not tru, but he has had two great games for us this year and how many last year??? For a team that lives on runnning the football, he is NOT good enough.

I LOVE Sellers, but he is also vastly overrated by Skins fans. So he ran over a couple safties... Great! I loved it as much as the next guy, but he is aging quickly... For every catch he probably has more than one drop (sure Jason needs to learn to put a little touch on the ball but still). Now I think part of the problems in the run game would have been solved with him in there yesterday... But if you are cleaning house you have to make tough decisions and he is no spring chicken.

Again keep in mind that my first choice would be to bring everyone back for one last year... But if we make change, I am in favor of massive changes that will cause us to be like 1-15 next year.
Maybe Portis is not an elite back anymore but he is a good abck. And you can't just dismantle the entire squad. Having Portis thewre at least protects JC as he gorws. Maybe we only keep Portis for one or two more years. But his eventual replacement is not on the roster now and I would hate to go back to running back by committee

[RedskinsDave]

I want one more year. I also want to pay more for my tickets; I want to pay more for beer; I want to pay more for parking; I want to lose more games; I want to stab needles into my eyes. These are all things I want. I am a real fan. :smash:

[Skins7ny]

The key is the QB. We have to figure out sooner rather than later if he is a Pro-Bowl caliber QB. If he is, the most important piece is in place, and the others are not that difficult to find. The teams that have quick turnarounds often do so because they find themselves a Pro-Bowl QB and that stabilizes everything else (see Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. etc.).

You hit the nail on the head. Having a good young QB gives you the foundation for years of continued success. Campbell has regressed lately, but I still am certain he is a guy who we can win with.

[Spence]

I'm a Redskins fan, but I'm not a freaking masochist.

[Keino]

Keino, the continuity argument only makes sense if some progress is being made. As in: "Maybe the team would improve faster with a new coaching staff, but we're making some progress now so let's see how it goes." The Redskins are not making progress. They're actually regressing. Advocating continuity in regression isn't an argument, it's madness.

I agree. I was just saying that in the beginning of 06 for example, when the team looked to be headed-up, it was a valid argument.

I was convinced after the Cardinals and Jets games that this isn't going to get any better and I am opposed to continuity for the sake of continuity.

[RedskinsDave]

I'm a Redskins fan, but I'm not a freaking masochist.

Are they mutually exclusive?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Are they mutually exclusive?

They are looking more and more like synonyms.

[firehawk157]

I'm not in favor of cutting every dude over 30 on the roster, because a team needs vet leadership and we def don't need to get rid of all our vet OL dudes. If Snyder called me today and said, firehawk, we are going another direction this offseason and I want you to help me rebuild this franchise from the top down, here's what I'd do.

First things first, you need a hungry head coach. Retreads don't work. I think Saunders is the best coordinator we have, so I'd go with Mike Singletary because he brings his defense in. Then, you let the head coach clean out the scouting department and bring in guys who know what he wants in a player and that way, they are on the same page. Fire Williams and let Singletary find "his" guy to run his defense.

Streamline the communications. DC makes the calls to the defense. If Singletary wants something done or wants to change something up, he needs to go over and tell the DC what he wants to do and the DC will make the changes. Likewise for the offense. Saunders speaks directly to Campbell and calls the plays. If Singletary wants something different or there's a decision to be made, he's on the phone with Saunders telling him. There's no need for a 4 person chain for the playcalling, maybe that's why we have time management problems.

Take a look at the roster and do a two-season clean (painful yes, but allows some turnover which is important).

Cut/trade (or just don't resign) first season...
Brunell
Todd Collins
Ladell Betts
Jason Fabini
Todd Wade
Marcus Washington
Phillip Daniels
Pierson Prioleau
Vernon Fox
Shaun Suisham
Boschetti
Keenan McCardell

I would find a true flanker, put Moss at #2, El at #3. Evaluate and see what we have in Reed Doughty, Lorenzo Alexander (I would like him to try guard), Marcus Mason and Stephon Heyer and replace if necessary. I would like to see what Mason could do spelling Portis, he looked explosive. Find a decent back-up to Campbell as the #2 QB and find a good OLB to replace Washington. Look at the DE prospects and see if anybody is worth breaking the bank over.

Draft:
1st round - Best available CB
2nd round - Best available receiver
3rd round - Best available lineman
5th round - Best available lineman
6th round - BPA
7th round - BPA

Second season:
Cut/trade (or just don't resign)
Griffin
Brandon Lloyd
Mike Sellers
Demetric Evans
Shawn Springs

See what you have in HB Blades. Start training him up to take over London Fletcher's role. Start looking at Portis and determine if he's going to stay or not. Evaluate the young linemen and make a determination if you need to pick up a lineman in FA or focus on linemen in the draft.

Draft:
1st round - Franchise LT
2nd round - DE
3rd round - OG
5th round - OL depth
6th round - BPA
7th round - BPA

I think by the 2010 season, we could be competitive again. BUT, we have to stop picking up guys who have nothing to prove. Cowher for example.

[CNYSkinFan]

uhm, you are keeping LLoyd around for what?

[firehawk157]

uhm, you are keeping LLoyd around for what?
It's just so much cheaper to cut him in the second season. Don't carry so much dead cap when your trying to rebuild, it'd be hard to find the players you want/need.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

uhm, you are keeping LLoyd around for what?
Yeah, that was my question as well. I was about to say "You are actually proposing to keep Lloyd around one more year?"

[shally]

Yeah, that was my question as well. I was about to say "You are actually proposing to keep Lloyd around one more year?"

maybe the loss of taylor can get him to look deep inside himself and find the person he could be ?

if that cannot reach him, he has no soul...

[firehawk157]

I would like to cut him right this second. But the fact is we'd take a $7M cap hit on a tight cap. I would like to use the June 1st exemption on him, but I hate carrying over cap hits especially when you need to cut more players next year. I forgot to add a kicker in the sixth round of the first draft. Not BPA.

[CNYSkinFan]

It's just so much cheaper to cut him in the second season. Don't carry so much dead cap when your trying to rebuild, it'd be hard to find the players you want/need.
You have a big roster bonus next year (every year you keep him). The cap hit may be less if you keep him, but the cost to the organization in both real dollars and roster space is not worth it

[CNYSkinFan]

I would like to cut him right this second. But the fact is we'd take a $7M cap hit on a tight cap. I would like to use the June 1st exemption on him, but I hate carrying over cap hits especially when you need to cut more players next year. I forgot to add a kicker in the sixth round of the first draft. Not BPA.
either way the cap hit in 2009 would be about the same. Cut him now, use the exemption, move on with life

[firehawk157]

Your right, my numbers were a bit mixed up. Lloyd needs to go this year. We'd gain $2M this year on the cap and it would be a wash next year.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I'm with CNY in the fact that, until as recently as yesterday, I thought the best course of action was to retain Gibbs and company one more year. Now I'm not so sure either, many members that are closer to the team and the area have alluded to the fact that Gibbs is not capable of righting the ship. While I refused to believe it, and still think the players lack focus and determination at times, perhaps they were right all along. It pains me to say it b/c I love Gibbs the man and what he did for this franchise in the past as a coach. However whether the players just cant seem to play up to their potential for him or he is just not capable of being the coach he once was... I'm beginning to think perhaps it is time for a change. GW as HC is a disaster waiting to happen IMO, and if Joe moves to the FO I could see him recommending GW because of his fierce loyalty to his coaches. If we're gonna start over we might as well do it from scratch. I'm still not 100% sure we dont have the talent to win, I realize we dont have the needed depth but our starters have talent when healthy and perhaps a total roster deconstruction is not needed IF we properly structure the FO and hire the right coach for the job.

[smoak]

Maybe Portis is not an elite back anymore but he is a good abck. And you can't just dismantle the entire squad. Having Portis thewre at least protects JC as he gorws. Maybe we only keep Portis for one or two more years. But his eventual replacement is not on the roster now and I would hate to go back to running back by committee

For that money do we want a "good back"??? Don't get me wrong, my first choice is another year as I can't stomach the though of it ending like this...

But if Gibbs goes, there are a lot of players who should apologize for not stepping up and playing for him and I'd rather blow up the roster than have many holdovers...

Either way it couldn't happen b/c of the cap, but man this team is a disaster. It is a shame that so many have to pile on when someone makes an attempt to be positive... Any way, I am done with the subject.

My guess is that Gibbs steps down and we hire Jason Garret.

[shally]

For that money do we want a "good back"??? Don't get me wrong, my first choice is another year as I can't stomach the though of it ending like this...

But if Gibbs goes, there are a lot of players who should apologize for not stepping up and playing for him and I'd rather blow up the roster than have many holdovers...

Either way it couldn't happen b/c of the cap, but man this team is a disaster. It is a shame that so many have to pile on when someone makes an attempt to be positive... Any way, I am done with the subject.

My guess is that Gibbs steps down and we hire Jason Garret.


although the very thought of elevating another dallas cowboy offensive coordinator to be head coach of the redskins really sticks, it is the kind of forward thinking move that could pay big dividends.
face it, garrett has shown the kind of aggressive, take no prisoners approach to offense that really works in today's nfl. granted he has had the benefit of a maturing romo and a productive TO but, he overcame the loss of terry glenn
and has at best mediocre runners. they had to re tool the o line and have at the very worst, the number 2 offense inthe nfl

the only question will be if jerry jones moves to lock him up permanently after this season by naming him head coach in waiting.. the same way the rams locked in mike martz for the final year of vermeil's run with the rams.. otherwise, garrett will be a head coach somewhere in the nfl

he will need a solid d coordinator since he has zero experience.. if they could get mike singletary, i think that would be an ideal pairing.. the only question is whether mike would take the job or simply wait for a head coaching slot.
i would not have any problem keep greg blache, but would be absolutely opposed to retaining GW under any circumstances

if they wanted to go on the d side they could go singletary, dewayne walker (who has redskin connections) or even perhaps rex ryan

but we need to go young, not think of cowher or other once successful head coaches

[Spence]

Hire this guy (http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76098339.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1935F875963FC567DB10EB6AE3C83F89B8F 284831B75F48EF45).

[Syllable]

I'm all for "one more year" depending on whether or not Gibbs still has the lockerroom.

IF we start over, we should focus on getting every over 30 player off the roster and truly rebuild. I know spick said teams can rebound quickly, but I don't believe sustained success will be accomplished with a band aid. I want to go through cap hell and get all the Lloyds off the books. Santana and Portis? Gone. Samuels? Gone. In fact, here are the players I would keep:

Albright
Alexander
Blades
Campbell (Jason)
Carter (but not for much longer)
Rock and Rocky
Cooley
Doughty (not as a starter)
Eubanks
Montgomery and Golston
Heyer
Landry
Mix
Pucillo (as a reserve)
Torrence
Rogers
Wilson

The rest of the young cats (practice squad and IR) could come back to compete for a job.

Rediculous. And after losing half of our superstars you think Gibbs can win the Division in one season?

[Syllable]

I don't know if this is posted somewhere else, but what is the Cap situation w/o taylor?

[CNYSkinFan]

Hire this guy (http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76098339.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1935F875963FC567DB10EB6AE3C83F89B8F 284831B75F48EF45).
Linky no worky for me

[dj_stouty]

I don't know if this is posted somewhere else, but what is the Cap situation w/o taylor?

I can't find the link, but I'm pretty sure the Redskins are off the hook on his future salary (the rest of '07 and future years) but they are going to get hit with a cap hit next year for the rest of his prorated signing bonus.

If I recall, Taylor had a good number of bonuses added to his contract for making Pro Bowl...etc. I would assume those wouldn't count toward future cap hits either.

[bergiemoore]

Gibbs' play-calling has got to go.

I think that Gibbs' is a fantastic motivational guy, and one that genuinely cares about the players, but the man can't call the game to save his life. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Gibbs takes over play-calling in 4th and short instances and in the last 2 minutes of the game. These are precisely the worst times for an uber-conservative play-caller to be given the reigns.

This team, under Gibbs II, has blown more games in which they lead at the half than any other team in the NFL. Not all of these games can be attributed to Gibbs' predilection to "play-not-to-lose" in the fourth quarter, but yesterday's game sure did. I could have called the defense against the Skins fourth quarter offense. They are wholly predictable under Gibbs. This team doesn't have the caliber of players to be able to execute the kind of smash-mouth offense that would allow them to sit on a 2 point lead. Gibbs hasn't been able to adjust his planning and strategy to the strengths of the team, and that is killing them. He talks too much of "balance" on offense, and not enough about putting the team in a position to win games. If you have a QB that runs the no-huddle well, and has a cannon for an arm, then open games with a deep pass down the seam, and then hurry-up on offense while the defense is on it's heels. If your OLine can't run-block against the JV squad from Notre Dame, then pass until they drop into their nickel package

Oh well, another season shot. I don't want to see us repeat the mistakes of 04, 06, and 07 in 08. If that means that Gibbs should go, then, by all means, get gone.

[Redskinmayhem]

I'm in agreeance with most of you on Personnel decisions. get rid of the dead weight. get rid of the old guys who don't contribute. I hear you but I think I'm right on w/ the comment I made about the Skill pos players. Portis behind a HEALTHY O-line can be an elite back. He's easily capable of another 1500+ yd season. he does have some wear and tear on him but If he doesn't get 8+ guys in the box every time, he'll last longer. He needs Jason, the WR's and the coaches help on that matter. As for the O-Line, yes they are showing some age but I'm curious to see what the median age of the top 5 oline's is compared to ours. Yes we need to start drafting for replacements there and/or find young guys in FA. Letting Doc go was probably a mistake in hindsight. He was the youngest and arguabley the most physically gifted of all the O-Lineman. Regarding the the WR's, we're a solid flanker or Possesion guy away from having a a top group. Anyone know how old Reche is? Could he be the guy? Maybe, but we'll never know if we blow it all up next year. I'd also like to see what Mix can do. That's one big complaint I have with this coaching staff. The younger guys rarely see the field. Offense is worse than D in that regard.

My caveat about Gibbs giving it one more go is that he make some serious changes in his philosphy and coaching style. We need to get up on teams point-wise and keep the throttle down the entire time. I think the Pats setup the blueprint for this and I think we need to follow suit. I think we also need a real football guy to be a GM to begin prepping for when Gibbs leaves.

At that point, we can start talking about young, hungry unorthodox coaches.

I understand the gripe about continuity but at this point, really, that's one posotive thing we can carry over into next season from this dismal campaign.

[smoak]

Rediculous. And after losing half of our superstars you think Gibbs can win the Division in one season?

Really, is that what I said? It is an "either or" propostion in my mind... Either make one more go of it, OR blow everything up and keep only the young players. Cap wise this isn't even possible so it isn't a realistic scenario... It is much more of a magic wand solution.

[Redskinmayhem]

Hire this guy (http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/76098339.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1935F875963FC567DB10EB6AE3C83F89B8F 284831B75F48EF45).

Sounds like a great idea but what are his philosophical tendencies? I mean, he's a Gibbs guy. I don't want a Gibb's homer like Joe Jacoby.

[Redskinmayhem]

most of you guys that want to blow it all up and start from scratch say you're ready for a 1-15, 2-14 season(s) but are you really? I don't recall a time when we've ever been that bad for an entire season. think about the regression JCamp would go through. We wouldn't get the chance to find out if he's "the one".

[RedskinsDave]

most of you guys that want to blow it all up and start from scratch say you're ready for a 1-15, 2-14 season(s) but are you really? I don't recall a time when we've ever been that bad for an entire season. think about the regression JCamp would go through. We wouldn't get the chance to find out if he's "the one".

Who has said they're ready for those records? I think most of us agree that better coaching will do more with the talent we have and better front office management will add pieces around them. If I thought it would be worse I'd be all for staying the course and letting Gibbs run this not-quite-.500 team.

[smoak]

I'm in agreeance with most of you on Personnel decisions. get rid of the dead weight. get rid of the old guys who don't contribute. I hear you but I think I'm right on w/ the comment I made about the Skill pos players. Portis behind a HEALTHY O-line can be an elite back. He's easily capable of another 1500+ yd season. he does have some wear and tear on him but If he doesn't get 8+ guys in the box every time, he'll last longer. He needs Jason, the WR's and the coaches help on that matter. As for the O-Line, yes they are showing some age but I'm curious to see what the median age of the top 5 oline's is compared to ours. Yes we need to start drafting for replacements there and/or find young guys in FA. Letting Doc go was probably a mistake in hindsight. He was the youngest and arguabley the most physically gifted of all the O-Lineman. Regarding the the WR's, we're a solid flanker or Possesion guy away from having a a top group. Anyone know how old Reche is? Could he be the guy? Maybe, but we'll never know if we blow it all up next year. I'd also like to see what Mix can do. That's one big complaint I have with this coaching staff. The younger guys rarely see the field. Offense is worse than D in that regard.

My caveat about Gibbs giving it one more go is that he make some serious changes in his philosphy and coaching style. We need to get up on teams point-wise and keep the throttle down the entire time. I think the Pats setup the blueprint for this and I think we need to follow suit. I think we also need a real football guy to be a GM to begin prepping for when Gibbs leaves.

At that point, we can start talking about young, hungry unorthodox coaches.

I understand the gripe about continuity but at this point, really, that's one posotive thing we can carry over into next season from this dismal campaign.

All I can say is watch Portis run and then watch Adrian Peterson. The Vikings have even less offensive talent (No Campbell. No Cooley. No Moss) and although I have only seen highlights, I'll bet teams play them with 9 in the box. But all that aside just watch them run. Portis has no explosion and goes down awfully quickly compared to other backs. I'm a huge Portis fan and I love the guy so I hope he anf Gibbs are both back, but if we decide it is time for change, I say lets change everything and start from scratch.

One issue on your Gibbs point. We don't have the Pats talent. If it was easy to walk out and put up 50 every week, all the teams would be doing it.

I don't see a GM alone being a solution, but if it is part of wholesale changes, then great... Sign me up.

[dj_stouty]

Instead of blowing up the team, I wouldn't mind seeing them trim the fat and getting a solid rookie class into the program. Get one or two to start immediately...and develop the others as depth. This is the first time in a zillion years that Washington has all of its draft picks, so that is a welcomed start.

I'd use the first rounder on a pass-rushing DE (which could be Chris Long if they lose the last 5)...then start filling the needs at db, ol and dl.

I just can't simply stomach a 1 or 2 win season...and I don't think our cap could handle simultaneously dumping 50% of the blue chip players.

[Syllable]

Instead of blowing up the team, I wouldn't mind seeing them trim the fat and getting a solid rookie class into the program. Get one or two to start immediately...and develop the others as depth. This is the first time in a zillion years that Washington has all of its draft picks, so that is a welcomed start.

I'd use the first rounder on a pass-rushing DE (which could be Chris Long if they lose the last 5)...then start filling the needs at db, ol and dl.

I just can't simply stomach a 1 or 2 win season...and I don't think our cap could handle simultaneously dumping 50% of the blue chip players.

I agree with this. Slash and burn is NOT the answer. Every coach that we brought in has done this to some extent. It leaves us without veterans and befuddled at the end of each season. Chris Long is looking like a viable option if Dorsey goes before him and we do lose most of our remaining games. A Tall Wideout who has ball skills ( McCardell and Caldwell proved that they both do not have ball skills ) would be a nice pickup as well in goaline situations. I could care less who we get as head coach, unless we get a Competent GM and a stable roster.

[RicFlairOne]

[quote=smoak;1047135]All I can say is watch Portis run and then watch Adrian Peterson. The Vikings have even less offensive talent (No Campbell. No Cooley. No Moss) and although I have only seen highlights, I'll bet teams play them with 9 in the box. But all that aside just watch them run. Portis has no explosion and goes down awfully quickly compared to other backs. I'm a huge Portis fan and I love the guy so I hope he anf Gibbs are both back, but if we decide it is time for change, I say lets change everything and start from scratch.


Point taken but remember Vikes have one of the best if not the best O-line in football especially on the left side but Peterson is special

[Redskinmayhem]

[quote=smoak;1047135]All I can say is watch Portis run and then watch Adrian Peterson. The Vikings have even less offensive talent (No Campbell. No Cooley. No Moss) and although I have only seen highlights, I'll bet teams play them with 9 in the box. But all that aside just watch them run. Portis has no explosion and goes down awfully quickly compared to other backs. I'm a huge Portis fan and I love the guy so I hope he anf Gibbs are both back, but if we decide it is time for change, I say lets change everything and start from scratch.


Point taken but remember Vikes have one of the best if not the best O-line in football especially on the left side but Peterson is special


Peterson is a back we haven't seen since Sayers. Forget finding another AP anytime soon. As mentioned, the Vikes have a great young oline. They spent big $$ on Hutch and it's paying off.

[give_portis_the_rock]

[QUOTE=RicFlairOne;1047145]


Peterson is a back we haven't seen since Sayers. Forget finding another AP anytime soon. As mentioned, the Vikes have a great young oline. They spent big $$ on Hutch and it's paying off.

I won't jump on the AP hype bandwagon because Taylor has also flourished behind that line. I understand he has some great moves in the open field, but it takes some big holes to get into the open field. CP would have similar stats to Peterson if he played for Minny...

But what does this say about Jackson, Bollinger, and Holcomb (that the Vikes line is so strong yet they still have a crappy passing game)? :D

[give_portis_the_rock]

I'm not in favor of cutting every dude over 30 on the roster, because a team needs vet leadership and we def don't need to get rid of all our vet OL dudes. If Snyder called me today and said, firehawk, we are going another direction this offseason and I want you to help me rebuild this franchise from the top down, here's what I'd do.

First things first, you need a hungry head coach. Retreads don't work. I think Saunders is the best coordinator we have, so I'd go with Mike Singletary because he brings his defense in. Then, you let the head coach clean out the scouting department and bring in guys who know what he wants in a player and that way, they are on the same page. Fire Williams and let Singletary find "his" guy to run his defense.

Streamline the communications. DC makes the calls to the defense. If Singletary wants something done or wants to change something up, he needs to go over and tell the DC what he wants to do and the DC will make the changes. Likewise for the offense. Saunders speaks directly to Campbell and calls the plays. If Singletary wants something different or there's a decision to be made, he's on the phone with Saunders telling him. There's no need for a 4 person chain for the playcalling, maybe that's why we have time management problems.

Take a look at the roster and do a two-season clean (painful yes, but allows some turnover which is important).

Cut/trade (or just don't resign) first season...
Brunell
Todd Collins
Ladell Betts
Jason Fabini
Todd Wade
Marcus Washington
Phillip Daniels
Pierson Prioleau
Vernon Fox
Shaun Suisham
Boschetti
Keenan McCardell

I would find a true flanker, put Moss at #2, El at #3. Evaluate and see what we have in Reed Doughty, Lorenzo Alexander (I would like him to try guard), Marcus Mason and Stephon Heyer and replace if necessary. I would like to see what Mason could do spelling Portis, he looked explosive. Find a decent back-up to Campbell as the #2 QB and find a good OLB to replace Washington. Look at the DE prospects and see if anybody is worth breaking the bank over.

Draft:
1st round - Best available CB
2nd round - Best available receiver
3rd round - Best available lineman
5th round - Best available lineman
6th round - BPA
7th round - BPA

Second season:
Cut/trade (or just don't resign)
Griffin
Brandon Lloyd
Mike Sellers
Demetric Evans
Shawn Springs

See what you have in HB Blades. Start training him up to take over London Fletcher's role. Start looking at Portis and determine if he's going to stay or not. Evaluate the young linemen and make a determination if you need to pick up a lineman in FA or focus on linemen in the draft.

Draft:
1st round - Franchise LT
2nd round - DE
3rd round - OG
5th round - OL depth
6th round - BPA
7th round - BPA

I think by the 2010 season, we could be competitive again. BUT, we have to stop picking up guys who have nothing to prove. Cowher for example.

Why would you get rid of Suisham?
He's the best kicker we've had in my memory...

[firehawk157]

His distance. He's got an accurate leg, but not a strong one. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to make a FG past 50 or be able to boom one into the endzone. I think kickers are massively underrated, and Suisham is just mediocre.

[give_portis_the_rock]

His distance. He's got an accurate leg, but not a strong one. I have absolutely no faith in his ability to make a FG past 50 or be able to boom one into the endzone. I think kickers are massively underrated, and Suisham is just mediocre.

Come on now man, the Jets game he went five for five, and four of them were over 40 yards. And I only remember him taking one fifty yarder all year, and he had the distance for it so I don't get your "he lacks power" argument. Remember, he sent us into overtime last year against St Louis on a 52 yarder. And those short kickoffs yesterday were intentional. On Thursday we're gonna have to kick it away from Hester (without getting a penalty).

[give_portis_the_rock]

All I can say is watch Portis run and then watch Adrian Peterson. The Vikings have even less offensive talent (No Campbell. No Cooley. No Moss) and although I have only seen highlights, I'll bet teams play them with 9 in the box. But all that aside just watch them run. Portis has no explosion and goes down awfully quickly compared to other backs. I'm a huge Portis fan and I love the guy so I hope he anf Gibbs are both back, but if we decide it is time for change, I say lets change everything and start from scratch.

One issue on your Gibbs point. We don't have the Pats talent. If it was easy to walk out and put up 50 every week, all the teams would be doing it.

I don't see a GM alone being a solution, but if it is part of wholesale changes, then great... Sign me up.

BTW man, Peterson said in an interview that he never looks at tacklers -- he is always eyeing the goal line. If he tried that here, he'd be averaging 2 yards a carry. Only if your line gives you wide running lanes on a consistent basis (or if you're in college and running lanes come natural) can you run without looking at tacklers.

[greatest2]

BTW man, Peterson said in an interview that he never looks at tacklers -- he is always eyeing the goal line. If he tried that here, he'd be averaging 2 yards a carry. Only if your line gives you wide running lanes on a consistent basis (or if you're in college and running lanes come natural) can you run without looking at tacklers.

EXACTLY. here portis has no choice but to look at tacklers because they are right in his face. God, i wish our line was healthy all year, you can't convince me we wouldn't be a dominate run team. I don't know if the w and l would change (we seem to find ways to lose no matter what). hopefully randy is ready for thursday

[NCskinsfanatic]

Portis gained a lot of yards running behind a pulling Thomas... Kendall is our best G and even without the arthritic knee he's no Randy Thomas. Losing Jansen was tough on the run game but losing Thomas was devastating .

[skinsfan36]

i dont think its all players id KEEP EVERYONE BUT-
brunell
fabini
wade
lloyd
daniels(demote to backup)
springs
but id bring in a new de,dt,wr,safety,cb,ogs,ot

[Redskinmayhem]

So everyone is agreeing on the same basic premise - our O-Line being bitten by the injury bug, is the a the root of the issue. Even with Gibbs' crappy play calling, if we had a dominant run game, we'd be able to put teams away. So back to my theory, next year with a healthy o-line we'll be a much better team. That coupled with other changes in philosophy, and a few key FA Acquisitions and we're right there in the hunt. I know we say it every year but the one thing we have going for us is continuity. that's something we need to lean on to get back into contention.