Is a running QB more dangerous then the traditional pocket passer?

[rskinsfan10]

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6632977

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Wow, nearly the whole length of that article is based on passer rating, which is itself a crock.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I'll take the pocket passer anyday. Check out the list of the last 18 Super Bowl winning QB's (I could go longer, but what's the point). Some of them could scramble in their heydays, i.e. Steve Young, but they won their Super Bowls by staying in the pocket and running the offense. QB ratings aside, winning championships is the only thing that matters.

Brad Johnson
Tom Brady
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway
John Elway
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Steve Young
Troy Aikman
Troy Aikman
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana
Joe Montana
Doug Williams
Phil Simms
Jim McMahon

[Green-Is-Good]

Favre is not a running QB, but he IS a scrambler.

[Spence]

The most important thing about mobility in a quarterback is that he be able to sidestep the rush. You need more pocket awareness than foot speed to accomplish that. [We all saw Patrick Ramsey make some nice moves inside the pocket to throw a TD to Darnerian McCants and a 48-yard completion of Laveranues Coles last week.] Dan Marino, one of the slowest passers I've ever seen, was a master at stepping away from the rush and moving to the side or--better still--forward and releasing the ball. Of all the quarterbacks out there right now, I'd say Peyton Manning is the best at this now. Lots of people wonder why Marino and Manning were/are so rarely sacked. It's more than their offensive lines. Those guys have great pocket awareness. They might be looking downfield, but they can still "feel" the rush as it closes in on them.

Anyone who watched the Rams-Giants game last weekend could see that, in that game, at least, Kurt Warner had no "feel" for the pass rush at all. Hence, the six sacks.

[Green-Is-Good]

That's good, but it helps to have that running skill. Even if you don't take off once that game, the opposing defense FEARS the run.

[hail2skins]

Marino wasn't a running QB and he was very effective.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

The Super Bowl list doesn't mean much because only in the past few years has the mobile QB really begun to be used in proper ways. Remember when people booed the selection of Donovan McNabb in the draft?

Put someone like Kerry Collins, Trent Green, Patrick Ramsey, or Brad Johnson under center in Atlanta last year, and the Falcons aren't in the playoffs. Send 'em to Philly for the past four years, and there's no way the Eagles would have had as much success, and almost certainly wouldn't be trying for a third straight NFC Championship appearance. It's the beginning of a transition, not necessarily to the age of the dominance of a mobile quarterback, but an age in which one can be highly effective.

[CarMike]

I'd take a pocket QB too for reasons stated above.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
The Super Bowl list doesn't mean much because only in the past few years has the mobile QB really begun to be used in proper ways. Remember when people booed the selection of Donovan McNabb in the draft?

Put someone like Kerry Collins, Trent Green, Patrick Ramsey, or Brad Johnson under center in Atlanta last year, and the Falcons aren't in the playoffs. Send 'em to Philly for the past four years, and there's no way the Eagles would have had as much success, and almost certainly wouldn't be trying for a third straight NFC Championship appearance. It's the beginning of a transition, not necessarily to the age of the dominance of a mobile quarterback, but an age in which one can be highly effective.


JDS, "mobile" or "running" QB's have been around longer than you might think. Remember Randall Cunningham in Philadelphia? A part of some very good Buddy Ryan teams in Philly. Never able to get over the hump. I'll take you back even farther. Fran Tarkenton. NFL hall of famer. Very good QB. Never won the big game. The NFL has seen this type of QB before, maybe not as big, maybe not as fast, but they have been seen before. But history proves that that pocket passer in the NFL is a proven method of winning championships. You say this style is just starting or the beginning of a transition. I say it has been happening all along.

Daunte Culpepper no doubt fits into this category of QB you describe as just evolving. Steve Young used to fit into that as well. When Steve Young was transitioning from USFL to NFL, there was talk of making him a running back. But Steve Young made his mark in the NFL by throwing the ball from the pocket. Daunte Culpepper may yet lead his team to the promised land. But he will do it throwing the ball to Randy Moss. Not running by him after scrambling from the pocket, juking 6 defenders and running over the final 2 at the goal line.

As my Economics professor used to say, "The proof, my friend, is in the pudding."

[Death_Venom]

THANK GOD someone has finally mentioned Randall Cunningham!!!!

Wow! Has everyone forgotten that Randall was the ORIGINAL running QB???

Everytime I think of McNabb it stirs memories of Randall Cunningham.........

[hail2skins]

Hey, what do coaches try to do to mobile QB's? Turn them into pocket QB's. That's how Philly hurt Cunningham. Look at McNabb now. Coaches want someone who will stay in the pocket and make the throw.

[Death_Venom]

Check this out:

Vick & McNabb perform far better on the run & passing than staying the pocket and trying to pass......

Now Vick's & McNabb's main issues are this: Do NOT listen to the critics when they say "you cannot pass out of the pocket", because what happens next? These "mobile" QB's do one thing-their completions DROP because the VERY NEXT GAME they try to stay in the pocket & make the passes.......LOL.........

Football (especially the QB position) is so very much based on instinct. So don't overthink your moves-and do what is natural!!! Run & Pass!!!

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by robert11273
JDS, "mobile" or "running" QB's have been around longer than you might think. Remember Randall Cunningham in Philadelphia? A part of some very good Buddy Ryan teams in Philly. Never able to get over the hump. I'll take you back even farther. Fran Tarkenton. NFL hall of famer. Very good QB. Never won the big game. The NFL has seen this type of QB before, maybe not as big, maybe not as fast, but they have been seen before. But history proves that that pocket passer in the NFL is a proven method of winning championships. You say this style is just starting or the beginning of a transition. I say it has been happening all along.

Daunte Culpepper no doubt fits into this category of QB you describe as just evolving. Steve Young used to fit into that as well. When Steve Young was transitioning from USFL to NFL, there was talk of making him a running back. But Steve Young made his mark in the NFL by throwing the ball from the pocket. Daunte Culpepper may yet lead his team to the promised land. But he will do it throwing the ball to Randy Moss. Not running by him after scrambling from the pocket, juking 6 defenders and running over the final 2 at the goal line.

As my Economics professor used to say, "The proof, my friend, is in the pudding."

Notice I said a transition to an age when the mobile QB will be highly effective, not a transition to when there are mobile QBs in the league. I actually do remember Randall Cunningham (which is weird, since I was about three feet tall when he was around), and definitely remember Steve Young. And yes, they were quite mobile, Cunningham set lots of QB rushing records for Vick to break. But the point is that the goal of most QB coaches was to turn them into pocket passers, which is what seems to be happening with McNabb. I really don't understand this, for reasons Death Venom brought up. Their strength is in moving with the football. When allowed to do so, they're better. Period. Hardly anyone realized this back in the day, but now, a few coaches are letting players like Vick, Culpepper, McNair, and Garcia open it up a bit. It's the transition in theory of what makes a QB effective that's happening right now.

[Green-Is-Good]

I actually agree with JDS on this one. The same thing happened to Kordell Stewart.