Redskins offer Gibbs two-year extension

[chrisbcbu]

ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3166931)
With a game crucial to their playoff hopes coming up Sunday night against the Minnesota Vikings, the Washington Redskins have offered a two-year contract extension to head coach Joe Gibbs, according to a source.

Owner Daniel Snyder has said he's confident he can convince the Hall of Fame coach, who is in his second stint with the Redskins, to stay in Washington.

[JasonCampbell]

Ugh...I love Gibbs, but this just isn't working.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Well that settles that,Gibbs and company is here to stay. Unless he decides to step away for health reasons I think he'll take the extension and try to improve the age, depth and talent level of the team before retiring.

[RedskinsDave]

Snyder can never get too much of a bad thing. Why not just extend Brandon Lloyd and trade to get Archuletta back? :smash:

[CNYSkinFan]

I still think this is cover to let Gibbs finish out his contract as he always said he would do. Gibbs is a great leader but has become a liability in game decisions. once he goes lok for wholesale changes. I for one am semi glad he is staying...if for only to give this group of players one last sjot.

if st had not passed perhaps there would be more pressure on him to go, but he kept the team focused through a ton of injuries and the most devastating loss imaginable in mid season. I can forgive some stupid late gamecalls, but jeebus it is not that hard to know when to take tos.

[superskin]

I love the news. I hope Gibbs takes the offer. Period.

[BostonSkins]

My guess is he takes 2 Timeouts in a row during the game to consider the offer.

[GreenspanDan]

yay! awesome news. gibbs has this team pointed in the right direction.

:sun::sun:

[hogs86]

Yes !! I think wth all the players who have gone down this season and the death of ST Gibbs gas done a good job this season. I do think we can win the SB next season.

[guess88]

Well... look at it this way. We're still in the playoff hunt with about half our team, including key players, pretty much hurt throughout the season. Maybe Gibbs can show us something amazing when the team's finally healthy.

[Skinsguy1]

I love the news. I hope Gibbs takes the offer. Period.

Completely agree.

[RedskinsDave]

Can anyone of you who are in favor of extending Gibbs please, for the love of God, tell me how he has this team in the right direction and also how a guy who's coached this team to the most halftime leads blown in the league deserves an extension?

[GreenspanDan]

i think those who want gibbs fired are really missing the big picture. this team is younger and less overpaid than at any other time during the snyder era, and for once we have all our draft picks. Gibbs has gotten rid of the bad apples and put together a team with a VERY positive attitude and personality, and yes a lot of talent too.

even if the win/loss record doesn't show it yet, he has completely turned the franchise around compared to the turner/schottenheimer/spurrier eras.

another coaching transition is the LAST thing this franchise needs.

[JasonCampbell]

i think those who want gibbs fired are really missing the big picture. this team is younger and less overpaid than at any other time during the snyder era, and for once we have all our draft picks. Gibbs has gotten rid of the bad apples and put together a team with a VERY positive attitude and personality, and yes a lot of talent too.

That is all front office stuff, so stick him there and get a coach who can make halftime adjustments, properly use TOs, and model a desire to win the game, not play to not lose the game.

[RedskinsDave]

i think those who want gibbs fired are really missing the big picture. this team is younger and less overpaid than at any other time during the snyder era, and for once we have all our draft picks. Gibbs has gotten rid of the bad apples and put together a team with a VERY positive attitude and personality, and yes a lot of talent too.

even if the win/loss record doesn't show it yet, he has completely turned the franchise around compared to the turner/schottenheimer/spurrier eras.

another coaching transition is the LAST thing this franchise needs.

Horse crap. Pure horse crap. Did you miss the first Giants game, Packers, 2nd Eagles, Cowboys, Bucs and Bills games? They don't hand over 2 of those and they are in the playoffs. As it is, they did and have lost games like that over the last four years.

[chrisbcbu]

Can anyone of you who are in favor of extending Gibbs please, for the love of God, tell me how he has this team in the right direction and also how a guy who's coached this team to the most halftime leads blown in the league deserves an extension?

there is an article on WP.com that relates to my thinking. Tho i never really wanted Gibbs leaving i was beginning to lose faith.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201855.html

[GreenspanDan]

Horse crap. Pure horse crap. Did you miss the first Giants game, Packers, 2nd Eagles, Cowboys, Bucs and Bills games? They don't hand over 2 of those and they are in the playoffs. As it is, they did and have lost games like that over the last four years.

this year's team has been absolutely decimated by injuries. gibbs has done a phenomenal job just to win 7 games through such adversity. yes he's made mistakes, but we've been in all but one contest right up to the end. he shares the responsibilities for losing those 5 leads as much as anyone on the team, but reacting by calling for his head is short-sighted and would ultimately send the team in the wrong direction.

[RedskinsDave]

there is an article on WP.com that relates to my thinking. Tho i never really wanted Gibbs leaving i was beginning to lose faith.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201855.html

Priceless: Throw out last season's 5-11 aberration, and he's 9-2 in the last month of the regular season.

Hey, you throw out all my bad days I've had nothing but good days.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I still think this is cover to let Gibbs finish out his contract as he always said he would do. Gibbs is a great leader but has become a liability in game decisions. once he goes lok for wholesale changes. I for one am semi glad he is staying...if for only to give this group of players one last sjot.

if st had not passed perhaps there would be more pressure on him to go, but he kept the team focused through a ton of injuries and the most devastating loss imaginable in mid season. I can forgive some stupid late gamecalls, but jeebus it is not that hard to know when to take tos.
If the move is intended to avoid a lame-duck situation next year, and regardless Gibbs will stay the 5 years he originally planned, then that is fine (since I'm 100% sure he won't be leaving at the end of this year). If not, then...ugh.
Can anyone of you who are in favor of extending Gibbs please, for the love of God, tell me how he has this team in the right direction and also how a guy who's coached this team to the most halftime leads blown in the league deserves an extension?
Dave, that's an impossible question to answer. Anyone who really thinks that is not analizing the situation rationally, but is hanging on to 20 year memories, or just thinks that the Redskins are "close" or "headed in the right direction" every single year, regardless of what is happening. Or they aren't watching the games.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Priceless:

Hey, you throw out all my bad days I've had nothing but good days.

And if you throw out the 2004 and 2006 seasons entirely, plus the 7 losses this year, Gibbs is 17-6 in the regular season. That's FANTASTIC!!!!

[GreenspanDan]

Dave, that's an impossible question to answer. Anyone who really thinks that is not analizing the situation rationally, but is hanging on to 20 year memories, or just thinks that the Redskins are "close" or "headed in the right direction" every single year, regardless of what is happening. Or they aren't watching the games.

that's insulting and completely not true. that's all i have to say to that.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

that's insulting and completely not true. that's all i have to say to that.

Ok.

[RedskinsDave]

that's insulting and completely not true. that's all i have to say to that.

Thanks for not answering my question. Nostalgia and loyalty make for a really awesome .500 season.

[cal_junior]

Can anyone of you who are in favor of extending Gibbs please, for the love of God, tell me how he has this team in the right direction

This is a joke, right?

1993-2003 (Post-Gibbs era) 11 seasons 1 playoff appearance

2004-2006 (Second Gibbs era) 3 seasons 1 playoff appearance

And with two games left in his fourth season, with more adversity and injury than any team in the league, the Skins are two wins from a second playoff appearances in four years.

And who is the sparkling HC candidate that everybody wants instead of Gibbs? Gregg Williams? No thanks. Al Saunders? Ah, no.

Unless we could get Cowher (which would mean losing all the assistants and starting from scratch) there's nobody that gets me excited out there.

[akhhorus]

Gibbs shouldn't be extended, and Snyder shouldn't offer 2 years. Thats not saying he believes in Gibbs, and doesn't show faith in him. It says that Snyder wants Gibbs to retire, but just doesn't have the guts to force him.

[hessy36]

Can anyone of you who are in favor of extending Gibbs please, for the love of God, tell me how he has this team in the right direction and also how a guy who's coached this team to the most halftime leads blown in the league deserves an extension?


If he had a decent QB we'd be on the way to the Super Bowl...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

This is a joke, right?

1993-2003 (Post-Gibbs era) 11 seasons 1 playoff appearance

2004-2006 (Second Gibbs era) 3 seasons 1 playoff appearance

And with two games left in his fourth season, with more adversity and injury than any team in the league, the Skins are two wins from a second playoff appearances in four years.

And who is the sparkling HC candidate that everybody wants instead of Gibbs? Gregg Williams? No thanks. Al Saunders? Ah, no.

Unless we could get Cowher (which would mean losing all the assistants and starting from scratch) there's nobody that gets me excited out there.
2004-2007: 28-34.

[akhhorus]

If he had a decent defense we'd be on the way to the Super Bowl...

Fixed for you.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If he had a decent QB we'd be on the way to the Super Bowl...

LMAO!!

[akhhorus]

LMAO!!

I can't stand Campbell and his bad timeout calling ways, and when he forces Williams to play soft defenses. That just ticks me off /sarcasm

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I can't stand Campbell and his bad timeout calling ways, and when he forces Williams to play soft defenses. That just ticks me off /sarcasm
I know. It's unbelievable. We should cut him immediately.

[akhhorus]

2004-2007: 28-34.

And how many of the 34 were we leading at halftime again? I think we could find a coach who could do that.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

And how many of the 34 were we leading at halftime again? I think we could find a coach who could do that.

Almost half I think.

[akhhorus]

I know. It's unbelievable. We should cut him immediately.

Only if Gibbs gets to take him to Snyder's Dr. Evil room underneath Redskins Park and lets Williams and the defense beat him up for a few hours first.

*pow*

"And thats for not covering *punch* Brian Westbook"

[akhhorus]

Almost half I think.

I could do that for a couple million a year.

[RedskinsDave]

This is a joke, right?

1993-2003 (Post-Gibbs era) 11 seasons 1 playoff appearance

2004-2006 (Second Gibbs era) 3 seasons 1 playoff appearance

And with two games left in his fourth season, with more adversity and injury than any team in the league, the Skins are two wins from a second playoff appearances in four years.

And who is the sparkling HC candidate that everybody wants instead of Gibbs? Gregg Williams? No thanks. Al Saunders? Ah, no.

Unless we could get Cowher (which would mean losing all the assistants and starting from scratch) there's nobody that gets me excited out there.

I couldn't care less what happened before Gibbs came back. Just because it was worse doesn't make what he's done any better. That's a horrible way to evaluate someone. "Hey, my last secretary sucked a lot worse than this one. Let's give her a raise."

[RedskinsDave]

If he had a decent QB we'd be on the way to the Super Bowl...

Personally, I am not a fan of eggnog. I see you like it and lots of it.

[hessy36]

LMAO!!

LOL.. Gibbs, I can't wait for you to come back for two more years, just make sure you trade JC!!!


:mfast:

[akhhorus]

LOL.. Gibbs, I can't wait for you to come back for two more years, just make sure you trade JC!!!


http://www.artistdirect.com/Images/Sources/AMGCOVERS/music/cover200/dre400/e468/e46864q1tne.jpg

[GreenspanDan]

this is ridiculous. in 4 years, gibbs has brought us to the playoffs once, maybe twice. that's one, maybe two more times than the previous two regimes. most teams would be happy to still be in the hunt after all that has happened. this is not nostalgia, this is a fair assessment. i'm psyched that at least those in charge of the franchise hav a level head about this, as opposed to some of the fans.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

this is ridiculous. in 4 years, gibbs has brought us to the playoffs once, maybe twice. that's one, maybe two more times than the previous two regimes. most teams would be happy to still be in the hunt after all that has happened. this is not nostalgia, this is a fair assessment. i'm psyched that at least those in charge of the franchise hav a level head about this, as opposed to some of the fans.
It's nice to see that the #6 seed has become our ultimate goal as a franchise.

[PennSkinsFan]

First off, this is an extension which say Joe Gibbs will return for the final year of his contract and that final year will not be a lame duck year. I don't think there is any way at all Gibbs will stay past his five year commitment, this is nothing short of a move to keep lameduck status at bay.

I love Gibbs. BUT, Gibbs II has been nothing better than what Norv Turner produced. It has been mediocre at best, bad at times. We need a new start after next season, a professional GM and a professional GM that decides who is the next coach, not Daniel Snyder. If that fails to occur, don't expect anything different than what you have gotten already from 8 years of Snyder ownership.

[RedskinsDave]

It's nice to see that the #6 seed has become our ultimate goal as a franchise.

Come on. It's better than before he came back. Remember to judge him based on how bad the guys before him sucked. Also, do not address AT ALL the blown halftime leads.

[akhhorus]

Come on. It's better than before he came back. Remember to judge him based on how bad the guys before him sucked. Also, do not address AT ALL the blown halftime leads.

Hey, name 1 coach who could do any better with the players he chose himself lol.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Come on. It's better than before he came back. Remember to judge him based on how bad the guys before him sucked. Also, do not address AT ALL the blown halftime leads.

I'm sorry Dave. I'll keep that in mind the next time I am about to make some kind of judgement based only on what has happened in the past 4 seasons, and not 10 or 25 years ago. lol

[JasonCampbell]

It's nice to see that the #6 seed has become our ultimate goal as a franchise.

If we even get that this year.

Face it people, if his last name wasn't Gibbs, everyone wouldn't agree with this extension. 28-34 is below .500...it stinks.

Seeing as how he was gone from the game so long, his past shouldn't even be brought up (unlike a guy like Parcells, who is out a year or two between jobs). Too many people here and in DC has this unwavering trust in the man just because of stuff he did 15-25 years ago. He isn't the same coach he once was...or is that the problem?

[GreenspanDan]

It's nice to see that the #6 seed has become our ultimate goal as a franchise.

the ultimate goal is a super bowl!

your point makes no sense. "win a super bowl with half your team on IR or you're fired?" now who's not operating in reality?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

the ultimate goal is a super bowl! your point makes no sense. "win a super bowl or you're fired?" now who's not operating in reality?
Uhm...no.

That is obviously not my point. My point is that I don't understand how anyone can be satisfied of a team that has to pray to qualify as the 6th seed in a pathetic NFC. And this is during the BETTER years. The not-so-good year, well, they have been really not so good at all.

[RedskinsDave]

the ultimate goal is a super bowl!

your point makes no sense. "win a super bowl with half your team on IR or you're fired?" now who's not operating in reality?

Ahhh the old injury excuse. That's a good one. I checked and, amazing as it may sound, other teams had injuries too. I know, I know, I couldn't believe it myself.

[akhhorus]

the ultimate goal is a super bowl!

your point makes no sense. "win a super bowl with half your team on IR or you're fired?" now who's not operating in reality?

And when we haven't dealt with major injuries, Gibbs couldn't get us past the #6 seed(2005).

[Dept_of_Defense]

I don't care what anyone thinks, but I want Gibbs back.

[NCskinsfanatic]

there is an article on WP.com that relates to my thinking. Tho i never really wanted Gibbs leaving i was beginning to lose faith.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201855.html

Thanks for the link, pretty much summed up my feelings on Gibbs also. I think he's made more than his fare share of mistakes. I also think he's been reluctant to allow Saunders to do his job in the manner GW gets to do his.However, IMO some of the losses we have experienced this season can be attributed to the players lack of execution just as much as coaching errors.

Another thing I think Gibbs has done is a heck of a job remaining competetive with an unusually high number of starters missing for extended periods of time. ON O our OL was rendered C level at best after losing the right half early, Collins is our current starter and we havent had a healthy pair of WR's all season.

On D the LB corp, minus London, is almost non existent and our secondary has been decimated and is a shell of its former self. Through all that, along with the tragedy, Gibbs has done a pretty good job keeping this team in the playoff hunt, despite a weak NFC they could've folded long ago.

We have had a couple of decent drafts but with the loss of Sean, Carlos for awhile, and Rocky our young stars have been somewhat diminished. We have quite a few draft picks this year and the offseason plan will more than likely have to be reserved (like last season) due to limited cap room. Which, as many have said, is not such a bad thing.

I believe JC will prosper with another year in Al's system and that the health of our OL and WR's has to be better next year. Joe was beginning to let JC have more control and the O was humming at times because of it, I think he'll make some changes to the way he does some things this offseason and we'll continue to improve. Barring another unfortunatre series of events next year, I think we'll be a better team for sticking together through all the adversity we faced this season while giving our young players more time in the same system.

[cal_junior]

I couldn't care less what happened before Gibbs came back. Just because it was worse doesn't make what he's done any better. That's a horrible way to evaluate someone. "Hey, my last secretary sucked a lot worse than this one. Let's give her a raise."

So you don't want your organization to improve? I don't understand.

Put it this way, we've lost a lot of games when we were up at half - with past coaches we aren't in some of those games at all.

The goal in any franchise is to improve and we are doing that. Gibbs took over a bad situations four years and has made it better.

I think we were in position to play in the Super Bowl this season if it weren't for the injury craziness. Take your pick between Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Thomas, Moss, Springs, Portis, Smoot, Thrash, Rabach - if two or three of those guys are closer to 100 percent all year this team is at the very least 9-5, probably 10-4.

And here's the better, big-boy question - who is the better option?
And I mean realistically.
I'd rather have three more years of Gibbs than move in Williams or Saunders - and that's who is coming next unless they dismantle the whole thing.

[hogs86]

For all the Gibbs naysayers who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude. Please stop !! Joe Gibbs is not going nowhere like it or not. Daniel Snyder who is writting the checks and Gibbs will decide how long Joe Gibbs will coach.

[akhhorus]

So you don't want your organization to improve? I don't understand.

Thats nonsense. So, anyone who wants Gibbs to leave is trying to hurt the skins?

Put it this way, we've lost a lot of games when we were up at half - with past coaches we aren't in some of those games at all.

More nonsense. So Gibbs blowing 16-20 games at halftime is a good thing?

The goal in any franchise is to improve and we are doing that. Gibbs took over a bad situations four years and has made it better.

We're still not in a good situation here. We have some pieces, but the entire coaching staff needs to go.

I think we were in position to play in the Super Bowl this season if it weren't for the injury craziness. Take your pick between Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Thomas, Moss, Springs, Portis, Smoot, Thrash, Rabach - if two or three of those guys are closer to 100 percent all year this team is at the very least 9-5, probably 10-4.

If it wasn't for the coaches, it wouldn't have mattered how many injuries we've had. Gibbs and Williams have blown more games even with all the injuries.

And here's the better, big-boy question - who is the better option?
And I mean realistically.
I'd rather have three more years of Gibbs than move in Williams or Saunders - and that's who is coming next unless they dismantle the whole thing.

"Fire Gibbs, Williams and Saunders and start anew" is the best option.

[akhhorus]

For all the Gibbs naysayers who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude. Please stop !! Joe Gibbs is not going nowhere like it or not. Daniel Snyder who is writting the checks and Gibbs will decide how long Joe Gibbs will coach.

Then barring some miracle, this team won't get significantly better if Gibbs, Williams and Saunders stay in place. If our current head coach wasn't named Gibbs, everyone would be baying for his replacing.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

For all the Gibbs naysayers who frequently engages in excessive complaining, negative banter and/or a genuinely poor and downbeat attitude. Please stop !! Joe Gibbs is not going nowhere like it or not. Daniel Snyder who is writting the checks and Gibbs will decide how long Joe Gibbs will coach.

Sure, no problem.

Can some mod edit all my 13000+ posts to "Go Redskins!!!!" please?

[Biggie]

I think we were in position to play in the Super Bowl this season if it weren't for the injury craziness. Take your pick between Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Thomas, Moss, Springs, Portis, Smoot, Thrash, Rabach - if two or three of those guys are closer to 100 percent all year this team is at the very least 9-5, probably 10-4.
Logic train?

http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Science--Technology--and-Society/STS-S28Fall-2005/325C31CD-47DD-42C8-922A-DA35596A7B2A/0/chp_shinkansen.jpg

It's not stopping here!

Gibbs is subpar when it comes to game management and it's clear to everyone from the players to the fans that his philosophy of playing scared has cost us more than a few games. This team should be 9-5 or 10-4 and a lock for a playoff spot as opposed to 7-7 and praying to get in. Twice the Redskins have started 5-3 in Gibbs II and twice they've followed it with long losing streaks that forfeit all of that hard work. That is not acceptable from an NFL franchise that spends as much money on players and coaches as this one.

[hogs86]

Then barring some miracle, this team won't get significantly better if Gibbs, Williams and Saunders stay in place. If our current head coach wasn't named Gibbs, everyone would be baying for his replacing.


Yes Gibbs is the only coach most redskins fans have loyalty to. IMO i do not think we are that far off and i am not ready for another 3-5 year rebuilding mode. I am trying to honest with myself. Who would make the redskins any better ?

[silverspring]

Gibbs has not earned this.

[chrisbcbu]

Thats nonsense. So, anyone who wants Gibbs to leave is trying to hurt the skins?

yes


More nonsense. So Gibbs blowing 16-20 games at halftime is a good thing?

Gibbs had some blunders, but a good portion of the losses were because of execution of the players

We're still not in a good situation here. We have some pieces, but the entire coaching staff needs to go.

We were in a very good situation but with injuries to Rocky(likely out next season) and Rogers (likely out half of next season) and the loss of Taylor will set back the defense.

I have been critical of the coaching staff but we are not far off. And if you cant see that then you are wanting the organization to fail just so you can say you saw it coming.

If it wasn't for the coaches, it wouldn't have mattered how many injuries we've had. Gibbs and Williams have blown more games even with all the injuries.

nonsense. If it wasnt for the current coaches we wouldnt be in the situation we are in. Playing for a possible playoff game. Getting this team turned around after everything that has happened this year is phenominal coaching. What would you call it?


"Fire Gibbs, Williams and Saunders and start anew" is the best option.

Sometimes i think some ppl just want the skins to be a laughing stock in this league.

Gibbs & Co. took over a franchise who, well, was one of the worst teams in the league and have made them competitive again.


But hey lets fire all the coaches and get rid of the players.

[akhhorus]

Yes Gibbs is the only coach most redskins fans have loyalty to. IMO i do not think we are that far off and i am not ready for another 3-5 year rebuilding mode. I am trying to honest with myself. Who would make the redskins any better ?

Thats not logic to say "find me someone who could make the skins any better" because any name I throw out there, you could dismiss. I know we could find a coach who could go 28-34 with 20 or so blown halftime leads. Hell, I could do that for the skins as the head coach.

[silverspring]

Yes Gibbs is the only coach most redskins fans have loyalty to. IMO i do not think we are that far off and i am not ready for another 3-5 year rebuilding mode. I am trying to honest with myself. Who would make the redskins any better ?


I don't understand why everyone feels like a coaching change means we start from scratch. Think about how many teams get a new head coach and that leads to a play off birth in the first year. The nfl is very fast moving and fortunes can change quickly.

We need to change how we build our team regardless if gibbs stays or goes and this is going to mean a couple years of status quo. We need to be at least willing to take a step sideways.

[akhhorus]

yes

Thats ridiculous. Either you don't believe that or you're trolling.

Gibbs had some blunders, but a good portion of the losses were because of execution of the players

No, a good portion of the losses were because the coaches--especially on defense--couldn't prep the Skins to play their opponent.

We were in a very good situation but with injuries to Rocky(likely out next season) and Rogers (likely out half of next season) and the loss of Taylor will set back the defense.

No we weren't defensively. Even with all of them, we struggled. Even with 2 of the 3, we struggled.

I have been critical of the coaching staff but we are not far off. And if you cant see that then you are wanting the organization to fail just so you can say you saw it coming.

Thats absurd. If you honestly think that, stop posting-because intelligent discussion is a bridge too far for you. The problem holding the skins back from success is the coaching staff. If this year can't convince of that, then nothing will.

nonsense. If it wasnt for the current coaches we wouldnt be in the situation we are in. Playing for a possible playoff game. Getting this team turned around after everything that has happened this year is phenominal coaching. What would you call it?

Gibbs has done a great job holding together the team in the wake of the Taylor tragedy. This however doesn't excuse or absolve Gibbs for mistake after mistake as the coach of this team and created an atmosphere where he doesn't know what his coaches are doing until they do it(which is undefendable).

Sometimes i think some ppl just want the skins to be a laughing stock in this league.

See my previous comment about intelligent discussion and you.

Gibbs & Co. took over a franchise who, well, was one of the worst teams in the league and have made them competitive again.

We're competitive? Since when? We're STRUGGLING to be the #6 seed in a down cycle for the NFC. I'm glad you're happy with that level of "success".

But hey lets fire all the coaches and get rid of the players.

I must have missed when I said get rid of all the players. The coaches haven't earned another year(much less another 3). But continue to be happy with mediocrity.

[shally]

ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3166931)

leading with his heart, instead of his head.. i have no problem with gibbs finishing out this year but what happens next year when we have the same dysfunctional coaching staff from top to bottom ?

they are good guys and the players like them and play for them.. but, it doesnt change what was a monumentally poor coaching job for 3/4 of this season, at least

[RedskinsDave]

Jim Jones would have loved to have you Gibbs guys in his community.

http://stylusmagazine.com/pbw/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/Kool-AidMan.jpg

[RedskinsDave]

If we lose one of the last two games, that will make it one whole season where Gibbs has coached to an above .500 record. That's worst in the division.

[cal_junior]

"Fire Gibbs, Williams and Saunders and start anew" is the best option.

Wow. I hope the Cowboys hire you as their GM. Seriously.

[shally]

yes



Gibbs had some blunders, but a good portion of the losses were because of execution of the players



We were in a very good situation but with injuries to Rocky(likely out next season) and Rogers (likely out half of next season) and the loss of Taylor will set back the defense.

I have been critical of the coaching staff but we are not far off. And if you cant see that then you are wanting the organization to fail just so you can say you saw it coming.



nonsense. If it wasnt for the current coaches we wouldnt be in the situation we are in. Playing for a possible playoff game. Getting this team turned around after everything that has happened this year is phenominal coaching. What would you call it?




Sometimes i think some ppl just want the skins to be a laughing stock in this league.

Gibbs & Co. took over a franchise who, well, was one of the worst teams in the league and have made them competitive again.


But hey lets fire all the coaches and get rid of the players.

i dont know if anyone here has cared or rooted for the skins longer than i have.. and i clearly revere gibbs for what he has done in the past. but in 4 years gibbs has done very little to convince me he is still a cutting edge coach, not a high character human being, but a cutting edge coach.

it is simply wrong to say that those of us who want a coaching change or a different way the front office coaching staff is organized WANT the team and gibbs to fail. that is not my agenda..

i think the game has advanced beyond gibbs at this point and he coaches "scared" and we do not have an ability to adjust our play..

further, i think we have a core group of good players but we have permitted the roster to get old without a lot of younger, quality replacements and we have a lot of holes on both sides of the ball without enough high draft picks to fill them.. we dont draft well on the second day, so it puts a huge weight to make every pick count.. do you really have confidence in this happening ?

more likely what will happen will be another infusion of free agents. if they hit them big, we will be okay for a year or so. but we are constantly chasing instead of being ahead of the curve

[cal_junior]

Jim Jones would have loved to have you Gibbs guys in his community.

http://stylusmagazine.com/pbw/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/Kool-AidMan.jpg

Give me a name, Dave. Give me the name of the head coach you want to hire for the 2009 season that has us in better shape than we are now.

[akhhorus]

If we lose one of the last two games, that will make it one whole season where Gibbs has coached to an above .500 record. That's worst in the division.

I'll do you one better:
Last 4 full seasons(last 3+this year so far):
Gibbs 28-34
Norv Turner(1999, not 2000 since he was canned after 13): 28-34. Counting 2000 instead of 1999: 25-34.

[akhhorus]

Wow. I hope the Cowboys hire you as their GM. Seriously.

Oh yeah, when you have nothing else, imply that the redskins' fan you disagree with is with the Cowboys in some way. You have nothing else, I assume?

[cal_junior]

Oh yeah, when you have nothing else, imply that the redskins' fan you disagree with is with the Cowboys in some way. You have nothing else, I assume?

Who's your hire then?

[akhhorus]

Give me a name, Dave. Give me the name of the head coach you want to hire for the 2009 season that has us in better shape than we are now.

I'm going to predict that no matter what name Dave gives you, you'll make up some reason why he won't do better.

[RedskinsDave]

Give me a name, Dave. Give me the name of the head coach you want to hire for the 2009 season that has us in better shape than we are now.

Any one who knows you can't call two timeouts in a row.

FYI, a team from Dallas changed their staff after going to the playoffs and are doing pretty well now. They did this without hiring a "better" coach too.

[akhhorus]

Who's your hire then?

Click me (http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1057628&postcount=62)

[cal_junior]

I'm going to predict that no matter what name Dave gives you, you'll make up some reason why he won't do better.

So you won't provide one then? You simply can't advocate burning everything down with a re-build strategy. You gotta have a plan.

[akhhorus]

So you won't provide one then? You simply can't advocate burning everything down with a re-build strategy. You gotta have a plan.

Like I've said twice already in this thread: I can find a coach who can improve on 28-34 in nearly 4 seasons. Thats Norv's record in his last 3 full seasons+2007. If Norv can do it, I can find any of a hundred coaches who can do that also.

[RedskinsDave]

So you won't provide one then? You simply can't advocate burning everything down with a re-build strategy. You gotta have a plan.

WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT REBUILDING!!!!!!?

[cal_junior]

I can find a coach who can improve on 28-34 in nearly 4 seasons.

Then do it. Norv has a job.

[akhhorus]

Then do it. Norv has a job.

Let me know when you want to make any sense. You haven't in this thread so far. I love Gibbs, but the game passed him by. The sooner Snyder admits this to himself, the sooner we'll be a better team. I'm not going to play your lame little game here, because no matter who I say should be the next coach, you'll make up a reason why he wouldn't do better than Gibbs.

[Slobberknocker]

i think those who want gibbs fired are really missing the big picture. this team is younger and less overpaid than at any other time during the snyder era, and for once we have all our draft picks. Gibbs has gotten rid of the bad apples and put together a team with a VERY positive attitude and personality, and yes a lot of talent too.

even if the win/loss record doesn't show it yet, he has completely turned the franchise around compared to the turner/schottenheimer/spurrier eras.

another coaching transition is the LAST thing this franchise needs.

Couldn't agree more.

[cal_junior]

Let me know when you want to make any sense. You haven't in this thread so far.

This is a fan forum, where we toss out hypotheticals. I'm simply asking for one of the "no extension" guys to give me a realistic new hire.

How does that not make sense?

Simply toss a name out there that can be discussed. Until then you aren't furthering the debate.

[Slobberknocker]

This is a fan forum, where we toss out hypotheticals. I'm simply asking for one of the "no extension" guys to give me a realistic new hire.

How does that not make sense?

Simply toss a name out there that can be discussed. Until then you aren't furthering the debate.

I could see Cowher or Grimm as legitimate replacements -- but this team has more heart, more character, more unity and more focus than at any time since Gibbs left. I think that's the one thing that the Gibbs-must-go folks are forgetting.

[cal_junior]

I could see Cowher or Grimm as legitimate replacements but this team has more heart, more character, more unity and more focus than at any time since Gibbs left. I think that's the one thing that the Gibbs-must-go folks are forgetting.

Agreed. I would love to have Cowher.

[RedskinsDave]

This is a fan forum, where we toss out hypotheticals. I'm simply asking for one of the "no extension" guys to give me a realistic new hire.

How does that not make sense?

Simply toss a name out there that can be discussed. Until then you aren't furthering the debate.

And you are debating? We have provided ample proof that Gibbs is not and has not been successful in his return and your argument is asking us to give you something you won't accept anyways. As Akh said before, if we give you a name you will dismiss it.

Do us all a favor and convince us how (potentially) having THREE losing seasons out of four is good.

[akhhorus]

This is a fan forum, where we toss out hypotheticals. I'm simply asking for one of the "no extension" guys to give me a realistic new hire.

How does that not make sense?

Because its not logical to say: "Well, our guy isn't bad, but since you can't come up with someone who would do better, he shouldn't be fired". Gibbs II has been mediocre at best. He's the highest paid head coach in the NFL and isn't doing his job.

Simply toss a name out there that can be discussed. Until then you aren't furthering the debate.

And trying to change this debate into a reductionist discussion of counterfactuals(going away from the issue of Gibbs' performance) is furthering debate?

[RedskinsDave]

I could see Cowher or Grimm as legitimate replacements -- but this team has more heart, more character, more unity and more focus than at any time since Gibbs left. I think that's the one thing that the Gibbs-must-go folks are forgetting.

If that were true it would translate to wins. It has not.

[redskinz#1fan]

I love the news. I hope Gibbs takes the offer. Period.

I'm with you on this one Supe!!! We need to make a few changes, but we need him here as the staple...

[Biggie]

I could see Cowher or Grimm as legitimate replacements -- but this team has more heart, more character, more unity and more focus than at any time since Gibbs left. I think that's the one thing that the Gibbs-must-go folks are forgetting.
Four game losing streaks show heart? Stupid coaching mistakes show heart? Choking away leads and pathetic second-half performances show heart?

[cal_junior]

We have provided ample proof that Gibbs is not and has not been successful in his return

I don't accept that premise.

[RedskinsDave]

Okay, screw it. Not one of you will comment on the losing and the mismanagement and all the other bad things. You are just the type of fans that Snyder loves. They keep feeding you crap and you tell them it takes like chocolate.

[akhhorus]

I don't accept that premise.

Then what would it take for you? A 1-15 season? 9 wins in 3 seasons? 40 straight losses?

[cal_junior]

That last post is my final one of today. I'm two days from Christmas and five hours from the biggest football game I've watched in several years. Arguing with reactionary Redskins fans with no desire to realistically look forward is not how I want to spend my Sunday.

Go Skins! I hope we beat up Purple Jesus and beat the #!@* out of the Vikings.

[RedskinsDave]

That last post is my final one of today. I'm two days from Christmas and five hours from the biggest football game I've watched in several years. Arguing with reactionary Redskins fans with no desire to realistically look forward is not how I want to spend my Sunday.

Go Skins! I hope we beat up Purple Jesus and beat the #!@* out of the Vikings.

Translation: I can't explain the losing and won't answer the questions asked of me.

[Smiley]

After we beat the Vikes tonight maybe y'all will change your mind. Hail!

[akhhorus]

That last post is my final one of today. I'm two days from Christmas and five hours from the biggest football game I've watched in several years. Arguing with reactionary Redskins fans with no desire to realistically look forward is not how I want to spend my Sunday.


Repeating the same thing and expecting different results is one of the definitions of insanity. I have yet to see you do anything different than being reactionary with no desire to look forward except trust Gibbs sans evidence.

[RedskinsDave]

After we beat the Vikes tonight maybe y'all will change your mind. Hail!

Nope. THAT would be reactionary. I am willing to look at the results of the last 4 years and judge them for what they are. Worst in the division is what they are.

[redskinz#1fan]

there is an article on WP.com that relates to my thinking. Tho i never really wanted Gibbs leaving i was beginning to lose faith.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/22/AR2007122201855.html

Great article!! This puts everything that I feel on paper.

[InsomniaKiller]

Great article!! This puts everything that I feel on paper.

Agreed, very good article. I personally want Joe Gibbs here for as long as he wants to stay here, and that's all I have to say on the matter.

[RedskinsDave]

Agreed, very good article. I personally want Joe Gibbs here for as long as he wants to stay here, and that's all I have to say on the matter.

That's a great argument and is actually just as good as the other ones have been. :rolleyes:

[wide_awake]

Horse crap. Pure horse crap. Did you miss the first Giants game, Packers, 2nd Eagles, Cowboys, Bucs and Bills games? They don't hand over 2 of those and they are in the playoffs. As it is, they did and have lost games like that over the last four years.

Ever think that with a different coach those game wouldn't even have been close to begin with???

Bitter much?

[RedskinsDave]

Ever think that with a different coach those game wouldn't even have been close to begin with???

Bitter much?

Wow, that's right. I didn't think of that. If only they sucked more, it could have been worse. Mindless lemming much?

[DCassain21]

i for one am happy about this and i hope he accepts the offer, if any coach can keep your team in the playoff hunt after your best player gets killed, losing your starting qb, half the line, starting cb, and now an up and coming lb, plus weekly injuries like washingon and moss, and keep that team in the playoff hunt i'll take that coach for as long as he wants to coach

[shally]

Couldn't agree more.

didnt hurt dallas very much, did it ?

[PA Skins Girl]

I'm thrilled!

[wide_awake]

Wow, that's right. I didn't think of that. If only they sucked more, it could have been worse. Mindless lemming much?

That has nothing to do with what I said.

"If only they sucked more"?????


My point was that you can't just say, "if we had a more aggressive coach we would have won all those close games", because if we had a more aggressive coach (ANY DIFFERENT COACH FOR THAT MATTER) the season would look completely different. Maybe we'd have won a few games by 20+ and a lost a few more by 20+...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I honestly could not make any weaker arguments for confirming Gibbs than his supporters are making in this thread. It is astounding.

[RedskinsDave]

That has nothing to do with what I said.

"If only they sucked more"?????


My point was that you can't just say, "if we had a more aggressive coach we would have won all those close games", because if we had a more aggressive coach (ANY DIFFERENT COACH FOR THAT MATTER) the season would look completely different. Maybe we'd have won a few games by 20+ and a lost a few more by 20+...

And the pro-Gibbs crowd is the only ones tossing out what-ifs. I have provided the facts that the team is a loser since Gibbs returned. All I get to argue against that is the horribly lame "who could do better" or "it could be worse". That's just fantastic.

Someone, anyone, counter the FACT that the team has almost the exact same record it did under Norval years 96-99.

[shally]

Great article!! This puts everything that I feel on paper.

again. leading with his heart instead of his brain

Agreed, very good article. I personally want Joe Gibbs here for as long as he wants to stay here, and that's all I have to say on the matter.

just because gibbs was once the best coach in the nfl does not mean he still is.. parcells once was, is he still ?

guys get old. people who fly planes for a living have to retire. surgeons retire.
we are talking about a young man's profession.

we have a dysfunctional coaching staff. that falls to gibbs.
we are not a very good football team the 4th year into his second regime, in a very weak conference.. again, we have blown more second half leads than any team in the nfl. tell me how that translates into a mandate for another 2 years ???

[InsomniaKiller]

That's a great argument and is actually justas good as the other ones have been. :rolleyes

Clever.

My point, actually, was that I'm not much interested in making an argument in this thread since there are some people :rolleyes: who are incapable of doing so without coming across as kind of...

well...

you know. :rolleyes:

Seriously, don't mock me for just pointing out that I agree with an article. I did not comment directly towards you and, yes, I understand this is a forum and everyone is free to respond to everyone else, but I don't much see the point in singling out my post for mockery.

[shally]

i for one am happy about this and i hope he accepts the offer, if any coach can keep your team in the playoff hunt after your best player gets killed, losing your starting qb, half the line, starting cb, and now an up and coming lb, plus weekly injuries like washingon and moss, and keep that team in the playoff hunt i'll take that coach for as long as he wants to coach

high character guy, for certain

players love him and keep fighting

but look at the record of losing in the second half. of sloppy play for 4 years. of poor clock management for 4 years.

every team has injuries, some more than others.. you want to give gibbs a pass for this season because of all the turmoil and tragedy ? i have no problem with that.. but what about being out of the playoffs 2 out of the previous 3 ?

that kind of "stick with the coach through good and bad" is what kept norv around for 7 years...

[wide_awake]

Clever.

My point, actually, was that I'm not much interested in making an argument in this thread since there are some people :rolleyes: who are incapable of doing so without coming across as kind of...

well...

you know. :rolleyes:

Seriously, don't mock me for just pointing out that I agree with an article. I did not comment directly towards you and, yes, I understand this is a forum and everyone is free to respond to everyone else, but I don't much see the point in singling out my post for mockery.

Don't call them ***** because you'll get banned but it sure is okay for them to act like ones.


People against Gibbs stayin, stop being so freakin' rude.

[RedskinsDave]

Don't call them ***** because you'll get banned but it sure is okay for them to act like ones.


People against Gibbs stayin, stop being so freakin' rude.

Make. An. Argument. Just one please.

[shally]

Clever.

My point, actually, was that I'm not much interested in making an argument in this thread since there are some people :rolleyes: who are incapable of doing so without coming across as kind of...

well...

you know. :rolleyes:

Seriously, don't mock me for just pointing out that I agree with an article. I did not comment directly towards you and, yes, I understand this is a forum and everyone is free to respond to everyone else, but I don't much see the point in singling out my post for mockery.

i wasnt mocking you in any way

the sentimental choice is to retain gibbs and hope with a calm productive offseason we can compete next year to go deep into the playoffs

but if you look at all the real holes this team has on both sides of the ball, plus all the age on the offensive line, i dont think it is going to be a very easy task. even with a full complement of draft picks (we are down 1 pick) we better hit some second day picks and we better hit all of our first day picks.
then, we cannot afford even a single "lloyd" type free agent this offseason.

when have we actually had an offseason like that ?

[InsomniaKiller]

just because gibbs was once the best coach in the nfl does not mean he still is.. parcells once was, is he still ?

guys get old. people who fly planes for a living have to retire. surgeons retire.
we are talking about a young man's profession.

we have a dysfunctional coaching staff. that falls to gibbs.
we are not a very good football team the 4th year into his second regime, in a very weak conference.. again, we have blown more second half leads than any team in the nfl. tell me how that translates into a mandate for another 2 years ???

Thank you for responding in a respectful manner.

I can't deny that maybe some of my reasons for wanting Gibbs here are based more on who is than anything else. Once he's gone, that's it. No more Gibbs. I don't like the thought of that.

That being said, if we were 4-12 or if Gibbs never got us into the playoffs, I'd like to think I'd be rational enough to realize it's time for a change.

Since Gibbs retired, we've been to the playoffs, what, twice? In fifteen years? And one of those two times was with him and as of right now, we control our destiny this season.

He's made mistakes but he's done a lot of good. He is a leader and I believe wholeheartedly that he is someone our players want to win games for. They want him there, they want him to stay and finish this job with them.

I'm just not ready to give up on Gibbs. I can see why some are, I don't think any opinions being offered are invalid whatsoever. However, I think continuity within a coaching staff is more effective than making changes when things don't always go exactly how we would like. Put together a string of three losing season, maybe then it's time for a new coach. Go 1-15? Ok, maybe time for a new coach.

Just now now, for us. That's all.

It's something that's hard to argue and make a case for because it is, quite simply, just how I feel. If Joe leaves, I won't like it. I don't know what else I can say about it.

[InsomniaKiller]

i wasnt mocking you in any way



Sorry, Shally. My post you were replying to was not directed to you at all, I took nothing you said as mocking me whatsoever. No worries.

[akhhorus]

Thank you for responding in a respectful manner.

I can't deny that maybe some of my reasons for wanting Gibbs here are based more on who is than anything else. Once he's gone, that's it. No more Gibbs. I don't like the thought of that.

That being said, if we were 4-12 or if Gibbs never got us into the playoffs, I'd like to think I'd be rational enough to realize it's time for a change.

Since Gibbs retired, we've been to the playoffs, what, twice? In fifteen years? And one of those two times was with him and as of right now, we control our destiny this season.

He's made mistakes but he's done a lot of good. He is a leader and I believe wholeheartedly that he is someone our players want to win games for. They want him there, they want him to stay and finish this job with them.

I'm just not ready to give up on Gibbs. I can see why some are, I don't think any opinions being offered are invalid whatsoever. However, I think continuity within a coaching staff is more effective than making changes when things don't always go exactly how we would like. Put together a string of three losing season, maybe then it's time for a new coach. Go 1-15? Ok, maybe time for a new coach.

Just now now, for us. That's all.

It's something that's hard to argue and make a case for because it is, quite simply, just how I feel. If Joe leaves, I won't like it. I don't know what else I can say about it.

And if our Coach from 2004-today named was Randy Pan The Goat Boy and not named Joe Gibbs, we wouldn't be discussing this, the coach would be out and we would be happy. Gibbs' past is the only thing that keeps him his job right now for Snyder and keeps us from all being in unison over this issue. We joke about the Norv years and his abilities as a head coach, but as I said earlier: Norv and Gibbs have the same record for their last 3 full seasons plus 2007.

[DCassain21]

high character guy, for certain

players love him and keep fighting

but look at the record of losing in the second half. of sloppy play for 4 years. of poor clock management for 4 years.

every team has injuries, some more than others.. you want to give gibbs a pass for this season because of all the turmoil and tragedy ? i have no problem with that.. but what about being out of the playoffs 2 out of the previous 3 ?

that kind of "stick with the coach through good and bad" is what kept norv around for 7 years...

dont get me wrong here, gibbs has made many bonehead moves, like the two timeout thind and plenty of other bad clock mangement, i dont blame all the comebacks on him though, some go to gregg williams for playing soft d alot of the times, and im seeing a change in him the last two weeks the skins have been alot more aggressive in the second half, and about missing the playoffs 2 of the last 3 where were we before that, and i said were still in the hunt this year too, what if he gets us into the playoffs what do you guys think then, i mean in my eyes it's a good move but i see were every one else is coming from

[InsomniaKiller]

And if our Coach from 2004-today named was Randy Pan The Goat Boy and not named Joe Gibbs, we wouldn't be discussing this, the coach would be out and we would be happy. Gibbs' past is the only thing that keeps him his job right now for Snyder and keeps us from all being in unison over this issue. We joke about the Norv years and his abilities as a head coach, but as I said earlier: Norv and Gibbs have the same record for their last 3 full seasons plus 2007.

Based on Snyder's history, yes, Randy Pan The Goat Boy would be fired. Would that be a good thing, though? I don't know. You think so, fine.

Three seasons, a trip to the playoffs (which has been rare in recent years and something we desperately needed) and a win there, nonetheless. In the fourth season and a chance to get back in the playoffs after a season of immeasurable turmoil.

I'd stand by Goat Boy for another year or two.

But maybe I just have a soft spot in my heart for him.

[shally]

Thank you for responding in a respectful manner.

I can't deny that maybe some of my reasons for wanting Gibbs here are based more on who is than anything else. Once he's gone, that's it. No more Gibbs. I don't like the thought of that.

That being said, if we were 4-12 or if Gibbs never got us into the playoffs, I'd like to think I'd be rational enough to realize it's time for a change.

Since Gibbs retired, we've been to the playoffs, what, twice? In fifteen years? And one of those two times was with him and as of right now, we control our destiny this season.

He's made mistakes but he's done a lot of good. He is a leader and I believe wholeheartedly that he is someone our players want to win games for. They want him there, they want him to stay and finish this job with them.

I'm just not ready to give up on Gibbs. I can see why some are, I don't think any opinions being offered are invalid whatsoever. However, I think continuity within a coaching staff is more effective than making changes when things don't always go exactly how we would like. Put together a string of three losing season, maybe then it's time for a new coach. Go 1-15? Ok, maybe time for a new coach.

Just now now, for us. That's all.

It's something that's hard to argue and make a case for because it is, quite simply, just how I feel. If Joe leaves, I won't like it. I don't know what else I can say about it.

we have so lowered our expectations that we are willing to settle for a great guy who produces mediocre results ? again, if his name were anything other than gibbs we would likely not even be having this discussion.

yes, in between gibbs 2 tenures was a tale of woe. much of that falls on snyder who refused to operate his franchise in a wise manner by hiring a GM and getting out of the way. he has floundered.. but, it is STILL the right way to go about it.

if gibbs gets a 2 years extension (it is really for the benefit of his assistants because gibbs is really on a year by year assessment, determined by himself and how much energy he feels he has left) it means we will in all probability have either
A. the entire dysfunctional coaching staff back with the same boneheaded defensive schemes and the tension between saunders and gibbs opposing styles
or
B. saunders will take his marbles and go home, in which case we will likely revert to a gibbs style 1980's attack with out a true hammer.
if we are going to do that one, we better devote our entire draft to offensive and defensive linemen and go out and sign jamal anderson as a free agent.
that is the ONLY possible way that scenario has even a ghost of a chance working

i just think that the "x's and o's" part of coaching has left gibbs behind and he is unwilling to totally trust his assistant coaches to run the offense.. that is a bad combination
B.

[DCassain21]

to tell you the truth i dont even think he is going to accept the offer

[RedskinsDave]

we have so lowered our expectations that we are willing to settle for a great guy who produces mediocre results ? again, if his name were anything other than gibbs we would likely not even be having this discussion.

That sums it up right there.

[shally]

dont get me wrong here, gibbs has made many bonehead moves, like the two timeout thind and plenty of other bad clock mangement, i dont blame all the comebacks on him though, some go to gregg williams for playing soft d alot of the times, and im seeing a change in him the last two weeks the skins have been alot more aggressive in the second half, and about missing the playoffs 2 of the last 3 where were we before that, and i said were still in the hunt this year too, what if he gets us into the playoffs what do you guys think then, i mean in my eyes it's a good move but i see were every one else is coming from

one huge difference between gibbs 1 and gibbs 2 is richie pettibone versus
gregg williams..
gibbs abrogates control of his defense to his assistant (unlike the offense). if gibbs returns, so will williams unless some desperate team takes him off our hands. that is another thing i am very unhappy about if gibbs is retained. we will get more of williams arrogance and "play to lose" defenses.. and i dont really care what the statistics of how the defense ends up is-- the fact is that williams schemes have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too many times for me to want to see him return any more years.

[DCassain21]

That sums it up right there.

in my eyes the results aren't too medicore, 2 playoff trips in 15 yeas two people and he was one of them, we might get another this year, for the redskins last decade and half they are not medicore results but i understand, if he doesn't get us in to the playoffs every year chop his head off

[akhhorus]

Based on Snyder's history, yes, Randy Pan The Goat Boy would be fired. Would that be a good thing, though? I don't know. You think so, fine.

Three seasons, a trip to the playoffs (which has been rare in recent years and something we desperately needed) and a win there, nonetheless. In the fourth season and a chance to get back in the playoffs after a season of immeasurable turmoil.

I'd stand by Goat Boy for another year or two.

But maybe I just have a soft spot in my heart for him.

So, after 4 years, your expectations were 9-7 at best, #6 in a weak NFC for the legend? Stop trying to look for any reason to rationalize keeping Gibbs at look at the situation. This team did have a lot of obstacles to overcome, but they still vastly underachieved--and 90+% of that has to do with the coaching of this team.

[shally]

to tell you the truth i dont even think he is going to accept the offer

i think he has to for the sake of his assistants.. that is the basic reason for granting coaches an extension-- so that the assistants dont all bolt because they can see the handwriting on the wall

[wide_awake]

i wasnt mocking you in any way

the sentimental choice is to retain gibbs and hope with a calm productive offseason we can compete next year to go deep into the playoffs

but if you look at all the real holes this team has on both sides of the ball, plus all the age on the offensive line, i dont think it is going to be a very easy task. even with a full complement of draft picks (we are down 1 pick) we better hit some second day picks and we better hit all of our first day picks.
then, we cannot afford even a single "lloyd" type free agent this offseason.

when have we actually had an offseason like that ?

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NEXT YEAR

That's the common trend around here, what can we do for NEXT YEAR. It's a long-term game. Obviously we can't fix all of our holes (lack of depth, aging offensive line) in one offseason/draft, but we can get started. It appears (full complement of picks) that we are trying to do that, and in the mean time I feel better about having the continuity.

And this isn't delaying the inevitable. Gibbs can start rebuilding through the draft, making a few smart free-agent signings, and when he finally does retire leave the team in decent shape for the next coach.

If he leaves and we get a new coach who wants his own staff we are REALLY screwed.

If he stays and builds a decent team in the few years the succeeding coach "won't need to fix what ain't broken."




"But he's already had four years to rebuild and he hasn't been successful!"

He made BIG mistakes in the 2006 offseason but I feel like he's learned from them.

So that's how I feel about Gibbs.

I don't really fault him for the first year being unsuccessful, as that would be difficult on ANY coach coming out of retirement.

The second year he took us to the playoffs.

The third year he FAILED in free agency and suffered because of it.

This year he didn't make the same free-agency mistakes, and if this team hadn't had the worst injury year i've ever seen I see us in the playoffs and looking strong.


That's how I feel about it, don't be insulting or mocking.

[akhhorus]

in my eyes the results aren't too medicore, 2 playoff trips in 15 yeas two people and he was one of them, we might get another this year, for the redskins last decade and half they are not medicore results but i understand, if he doesn't get us in to the playoffs every year chop his head off

28-34, 20+ blown halftime leads. How is that not mediocre?

[DCassain21]

one huge difference between gibbs 1 and gibbs 2 is richie pettibone versus
gregg williams..
gibbs abrogates control of his defense to his assistant (unlike the offense). if gibbs returns, so will williams unless some desperate team takes him off our hands. that is another thing i am very unhappy about if gibbs is retained. we will get more of williams arrogance and "play to lose" defenses.. and i dont really care what the statistics of how the defense ends up is-- the fact is that williams schemes have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory far too many times for me to want to see him return any more years.

i agree with you 100% therei cant stand williams and would love for him to take his act some where else maybe atlanta

[shally]

So, after 4 years, your expectations were 9-7 at best, #6 in a weak NFC for the legend? Stop trying to look for any reason to rationalize keeping Gibbs at look at the situation. This team did have a lot of obstacles to overcome, but they still vastly underachieved--and 90+% of that has to do with the coaching of this team.

if this were a 1 year aberration, of course gibbs gets a pass because of all the turmoil and tragedy.. but it isnt. it is just one more year of frustration with a different set of excuses every year..

[RedskinsDave]

28-34, 20+ blown halftime leads. How is that not mediocre?

It's not mediocre. Mediocre is better than that.

[DCassain21]

28-34, 20+ blown halftime leads. How is that not mediocre?

what are the numbers before him losing by 20+ and no playoff apperances, much better i see

[InsomniaKiller]

we have so lowered our expectations that we are willing to settle for a great guy who produces mediocre results ? again, if his name were anything other than gibbs we would likely not even be having this discussion.

yes, in between gibbs 2 tenures was a tale of woe. much of that falls on snyder who refused to operate his franchise in a wise manner by hiring a GM and getting out of the way. he has floundered.. but, it is STILL the right way to go about it.

if gibbs gets a 2 years extension (it is really for the benefit of his assistants because gibbs is really on a year by year assessment, determined by himself and how much energy he feels he has left) it means we will in all probability have either
A. the entire dysfunctional coaching staff back with the same boneheaded defensive schemes and the tension between saunders and gibbs opposing styles
or
B. saunders will take his marbles and go home, in which case we will likely revert to a gibbs style 1980's attack with out a true hammer.
if we are going to do that one, we better devote our entire draft to offensive and defensive linemen and go out and sign jamal anderson as a free agent.
that is the ONLY possible way that scenario has even a ghost of a chance working

i just think that the "x's and o's" part of coaching has left gibbs behind and he is unwilling to totally trust his assistant coaches to run the offense.. that is a bad combination
B.

Like I said, it's hard to argue because so much of it is just nothing less than how I personally feel. You tell me Joe is leaving, my gut instinct is "we're screwed." Just one of those things that I feel, you know? Based on nothing.

But that's not all of it. The rest of it is that I don't see the team as this awful, gutless, group of underachievers that a lot of posters on this forum see.

We can agree this season has been awful. The injuries having been out of control and the tean was hit hard by unimaginable tragedy. But we're still in the thick of things.

What if we make the playoffs? Two out of four seasons after being out of it for SO long? I'll take it.

I am one of the more optimistic visitors here as far as the state of this team is concerned. I imagine that is where most of the disagreement stems from. If I saw this team as a complete flop, I might have a different opinion. But I like the team we've been putting together. I think we can do good things and I want Joe here to finish the job.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I must have been drunk/dreaming when, 4 offseasons ago, I read posts from about 100% of the population here that were saying that Gibbs was gonna get us back to the Super Bowl, we were finalyl gonna win it all again, he was gonna save our franchise, etc. etc. etc.

I just don't see how anyone can, with a straight face, claim that he has not VASTLY disappointed in these 4 seasons. And I mean on a scale from 1 to 10, he has disappointed about 150.

[akhhorus]

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NEXT YEAR

That's the common trend around here, what can we do for NEXT YEAR. It's a long-term game. Obviously we can't fix all of our holes (lack of depth, aging offensive line) in one offseason/draft, but we can get started. It appears (full complement of picks) that we are trying to do that, and in the mean time I feel better about having the continuity.

And this isn't delaying the inevitable. Gibbs can start rebuilding through the draft, making a few smart free-agent signings, and when he finally does retire leave the team in decent shape for the next coach.

If he leaves and we get a new coach who wants his own staff we are REALLY screwed.

If he stays and builds a decent team in the few years the succeeding coach "won't need to fix what ain't broken."

"But he's already had four years to rebuild and he hasn't been successful!"

He made BIG mistakes in the 2006 offseason but I feel like he's learned from them.

So that's how I feel about Gibbs.

I don't really fault him for the first year being unsuccessful, as that would be difficult on ANY coach coming out of retirement.

The second year he took us to the playoffs.

The third year he FAILED in free agency and suffered because of it.

This year he didn't make the same free-agency mistakes, and if this team hadn't had the worst injury year i've ever seen I see us in the playoffs and looking strong.

That's how I feel about it, don't be insulting or mocking.

How are we looking strong? How can anyone possibly say that? Even if we make the playoffs, the expectation is the wild card? And I haven't seen any evidence that Gibbs has changed at all in terms of personnel. Especially when it comes to the defense. He refuses to address obvious needs because he lets Gregg Williams handle the defense completely. And we've seen Gibbs(and Williams)' gameday coaching just getting worse and worse. What has he done to deserve more time? I don't want to hear your hunches, give me some facts.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

what are the numbers before him losing by 20+ and no playoff apperances, much better i see

Norv's numbers were exactly the same.

[DCassain21]

Norv's numbers were exactly the same.

if we get into the playoffs this year are they still the same

[akhhorus]

what are the numbers before him losing by 20+ and no playoff apperances, much better i see

This has to be to the worst post in defense of Gibbs. So, since he's made the playoffs once(twice at most) in 4 years, and didn't have many 20+ point losses, he looks good(never mind the fact that Gibbs had the 3rd and 4th worst losses in Redskins history in the last 4 years)? WHAT?

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3131/what2ka1.gif

[DCassain21]

How are we looking strong? How can anyone possibly say that? Even if we make the playoffs, the expectation is the wild card? And I haven't seen any evidence that Gibbs has changed at all in terms of personnel. Especially when it comes to the defense. He refuses to address obvious needs because he lets Gregg Williams handle the defense completely. And we've seen Gibbs(and Williams)' gameday coaching just getting worse and worse. What has he done to deserve more time? I don't want to hear your hunches, give me some facts.

he meant if we haven't had all the injuries we would be looking strong

[akhhorus]

if we get into the playoffs this year are they still the same

Norv would have 2 division titles to GIbbs' zero in the same time. And he would probably still have the same record as Gibbs(assuming both win out).

[shally]

IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT NEXT YEAR

That's the common trend around here, what can we do for NEXT YEAR. It's a long-term game. Obviously we can't fix all of our holes (lack of depth, aging offensive line) in one offseason/draft, but we can get started. It appears (full complement of picks) that we are trying to do that, and in the mean time I feel better about having the continuity.

And this isn't delaying the inevitable. Gibbs can start rebuilding through the draft, making a few smart free-agent signings, and when he finally does retire leave the team in decent shape for the next coach.

If he leaves and we get a new coach who wants his own staff we are REALLY screwed.

If he stays and builds a decent team in the few years the succeeding coach "won't need to fix what ain't broken."




"But he's already had four years to rebuild and he hasn't been successful!"

He made BIG mistakes in the 2006 offseason but I feel like he's learned from them.

So that's how I feel about Gibbs.

I don't really fault him for the first year being unsuccessful, as that would be difficult on ANY coach coming out of retirement.

The second year he took us to the playoffs.

The third year he FAILED in free agency and suffered because of it.

This year he didn't make the same free-agency mistakes, and if this team hadn't had the worst injury year i've ever seen I see us in the playoffs and looking strong.


That's how I feel about it, don't be insulting or mocking.

when you are a hall of fame coach, you dont have big mistakes like 2006

you cant fail in free agency

you cant count on being injury free

and i am looking at the long haul.. we need to do it right. hire a true GM first. let him hire the best young mind to be HC and then get the best coordinator for the other side of the ball.

build through the draft primarily, with some judicious young free agents. we simply cannot rely of a strategy of hoping 2 career tackles (fabini and wade)
can wishfully become guards.. and when that doesnt work, trade for an older guard out of desperation.. that kind of behind the curve thinking just doesnt work

[SpicyMcHaggis]

if we get into the playoffs this year are they still the same

If I had 3 balls, I would be a pinball machine.

[akhhorus]

he meant if we haven't had all the injuries we would be looking strong

The assumes that the players are the problems. Even with the players, the team still struggled because of coaching.

[InsomniaKiller]

So, after 4 years, your expectations were 9-7 at best, #6 in a weak NFC for the legend? Stop trying to look for any reason to rationalize keeping Gibbs at look at the situation. This team did have a lot of obstacles to overcome, but they still vastly underachieved--and 90+% of that has to do with the coaching of this team.

That's the thing. I'm not trying to look for any reason to rationalize anything. We simply have different opinions.

Come to think of it, why would I desperately look for any reason to rationalize this? I'm a rational person. If my opinion made absolutely no sense to me, I'd certainly have to rethink my stance. I'm not here to change anybody's mind, I'm not trying to piece together some argument that is going to blow anybody away. I'm just typing what I think about this situation and the team.

I am optimistic. I like this team a lot.

No reaching.

[shally]

If I had 3 balls, I would be a pinball machine.

or some kind of transgendered morphadite...

[DCassain21]

This has to be to the worst post in defense of Gibbs. So, since he's made the playoffs once(twice at most) in 4 years, and didn't have many 20+ point losses, he looks good(never mind the fact that Gibbs had the 3rd and 4th worst losses in Redskins history in the last 4 years)? WHAT?

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3131/what2ka1.gif

yea two playoff appearances in 4 years sure does beat 1 in 14 years, in my eyes it does, and atleast were in the games now rather then getting destroyed every game, what if cambell hadn't thrown all the last drive interceptions and td's instead, we would have won those games, but i guess it's gibbs fault cambell didn't make a smart play and threw and int, not every lose is his fault

[OCSKINSFAN]

high character guy, for certain

players love him and keep fighting

but look at the record of losing in the second half. of sloppy play for 4 years. of poor clock management for 4 years.

every team has injuries, some more than others.. you want to give gibbs a pass for this season because of all the turmoil and tragedy ? i have no problem with that.. but what about being out of the playoffs 2 out of the previous 3 ?

that kind of "stick with the coach through good and bad" is what kept norv around for 7 years...

I think you are quite correct in looking at Gibbs record and performance over his 4 years of Gibbs II. On that basis, he certainly does not even deserve another year. To top that, overall, this has been in my view his most disappointing year, with 4 games blown (the Green Bay game should not be on the coaches), even considering injuries and the death of ST. Now, like a good ecomomist, I will make an argument for keeping him. Gibbs said when he started Gibbs II, that so much had changed since he had left coaching. What I have seen is that it took about 3 1/2 years to finally catch up. I believe over what I have seen as this season has progressed til now is that he has finally (and only just finally) got it, e.g., playing not to lose no longer works, free agents, etc. While I was strongly for this being Gibbs' last season, I now think it makes sense for 1 more year (with any extension based on that year's performance).

[akhhorus]

That's the thing. I'm not trying to look for any reason to rationalize anything. We simply have different opinions.

Come to think of it, why would I desperately look for any reason to rationalize this? I'm a rational person. If my opinion made absolutely no sense to me, I'd certainly have to rethink my stance. I'm not here to change anybody's mind, I'm not trying to piece together some argument that is going to blow anybody away. I'm just typing what I think about this situation and the team.

I am optimistic. I like this team a lot.

No reaching.

I respect that, but I just don't see how anyone can say that except to ignore the last 4 years of Gibbs. If this is about being sentimental about Gibbs and giving him another chance because he's a legend, thats fine for fans(and i understand that without agreeing with it). Not fine for this team.

[shally]

That's the thing. I'm not trying to look for any reason to rationalize anything. We simply have different opinions.

Come to think of it, why would I desperately look for any reason to rationalize this? I'm a rational person. If my opinion made absolutely no sense to me, I'd certainly have to rethink my stance. I'm not here to change anybody's mind, I'm not trying to piece together some argument that is going to blow anybody away. I'm just typing what I think about this situation and the team.

I am optimistic. I like this team a lot.

No reaching.

yeah, they seem like a really nice bunch of guys..


and the pats are a bunch of b****s and a******s.. but look who is undefeated ? so who do you want as our home team ??

[SpicyMcHaggis]

yea two playoff appearances in 4 years sure does beat 1 in 14 years, in my eyes it does, and atleast were in the games now rather then getting destroyed every game, what if cambell hadn't thrown all the last drive interceptions and td's instead, we would have won those games, but i guess it's gibbs fault cambell didn't make a smart play and threw and int, not every lose is his fault
My friend, your expectations are really through the roof aren't they?

[InsomniaKiller]

when you are a hall of fame coach, you dont have big mistakes like 2006




If one of the main points being made is that those of us who want Gibbs to stay only want him here because of his past successes, then it is hardly fair to turn around and judge him morse harshly based on that same history.

He has not been perfect and no coach has. Every coach in the Hall of Fame made mistakes along the way.

My feeling is that I would probably want to keep our coach if we were in this exact same situation but with someone else on the sidelines.

[DCassain21]

Norv would have 2 division titles to GIbbs' zero in the same time. And he would probably still have the same record as Gibbs(assuming both win out).

yea gibbs didn't inherit the chargers though did he, he got the spurrier redskins it's crazy for you to even compare the two

[akhhorus]

yea two playoff appearances in 4 years sure does beat 1 in 14 years

So, because Gibbs followed some bad coaches, he looks great? You're not making any sense.

in my eyes it does, and atleast were in the games now rather then getting destroyed every game, what if cambell hadn't thrown all the last drive interceptions and td's instead, we would have won those games, but i guess it's gibbs fault cambell didn't make a smart play and threw and int, not every lose is his fault

Campbell isn't to blame when Gibbs calls 2 timeouts and makes a game winning FG a chip shot. Campbell isn't to blame for 4 years of letting Williams make bad decision after bad decision which leads to a defense that can't hold a lead or forces Campbell to force throws because the defense gave up easy scores. There's only 1 person to blame for the struggles of this team: Gibbs. Every complaint about the performance of this team leads back to him.

[RedskinsDave]

I think you are quite correct in looking at Gibbs record and performance over his 4 years of Gibbs II. On that basis, he certainly does not even deserve another year. To top that, overall, this has been in my view his most disappointing year, with 4 games blown (the Green Bay game should not be on the coaches), even considering injuries and the death of ST. Now, like a good ecomomist, I will make an argument for keeping him. Gibbs said when he started Gibbs II, that so much had changed since he had left coaching. What I have seen is that it took about 3 1/2 years to finally catch up. I believe over what I have seen as this season has progressed til now is that he has finally (and only just finally) got it, e.g., playing not to lose no longer works, free agents, etc. While I was strongly for this being Gibbs' last season, I now think it makes sense for 1 more year (with any extension based on that year's performance).

You do realize that the Buffalo game was only three weeks ago.

[shally]

I think you are quite correct in looking at Gibbs record and performance over his 4 years of Gibbs II. On that basis, he certainly does not even deserve another year. To top that, overall, this has been in my view his most disappointing year, with 4 games blown (the Green Bay game should not be on the coaches), even considering injuries and the death of ST. Now, like a good ecomomist, I will make an argument for keeping him. Gibbs said when he started Gibbs II, that so much had changed since he had left coaching. What I have seen is that it took about 3 1/2 years to finally catch up. I believe over what I have seen as this season has progressed til now is that he has finally (and only just finally) got it, e.g., playing not to lose no longer works, free agents, etc. While I was strongly for this being Gibbs' last season, I now think it makes sense for 1 more year (with any extension based on that year's performance).

it didnt take mike tomlin or sean payton 3 1/2 years to learn how to coach..
and mike nolan STILL hasnt learned. and the jury might be out on romeo crennel
i dont see giving gibbs 4+ years to learn to do what he needed to do right from day one..plus, he has had final say on personnel and that is entirely another job.. does he keep that one as well ? apparently so..

[akhhorus]

yea gibbs didn't inherit the chargers though did he, he got the spurrier redskins it's crazy for you to even compare the two

Thats counting Norv's last full year in DC(1999) and his 2 terrible years in Oakland. He's been in San Diego one year(and even without that division title, Norv still has more than Gibbs does). That still says a lot bad about Gibbs.

[DCassain21]

My friend, your expectations are really through the roof aren't they?
im a younger fan so all ive known are the redskins that go 6-10 rvry year so yea ill take what were getting now

[shally]

If one of the main points being made is that those of us who want Gibbs to stay only want him here because of his past successes, then it is hardly fair to turn around and judge him morse harshly based on that same history.

He has not been perfect and no coach has. Every coach in the Hall of Fame made mistakes along the way.

My feeling is that I would probably want to keep our coach if we were in this exact same situation but with someone else on the sidelines.

sorry, but the bar is higher based upon gibbs prior success.. darn right, that's what i expected. and i bet you did too..

the point is not that he has made mistakes, it is simply that time has passed him by just as it has with parcells and others..plus, apparently he also insists on having final say on personnel-- so that is actually TWO jobs he is to retain..

[hessy36]

Nope. THAT would be reactionary. I am willing to look at the results of the last 4 years and judge them for what they are. Worst in the division is what they are.


Worst in the division for four years? Huh? Come on, that's not even close to being true. We did make it to the playoffs.

[DCassain21]

So, because Gibbs followed some bad coaches, he looks great? You're not making any sense.
ok sorry were not the pats or colts we dont make it every year but i will certainly take 2 of 4 if we make it this year


Campbell isn't to blame when Gibbs calls 2 timeouts and makes a game winning FG a chip shot. Campbell isn't to blame for 4 years of letting Williams make bad decision after bad decision which leads to a defense that can't hold a lead or forces Campbell to force throws because the defense gave up easy scores. There's only 1 person to blame for the struggles of this team: Gibbs. Every complaint about the performance of this team leads back to him.

yes we all know about the 2 timeouts, and when he hired wiliams after the first year here who here didn't want him, you cant blame him for those cambell plays or really for williams, williams did a hell of a job the first 2 yr's, he deserved and extansion at the time it's biting uss a the behind now but when he was extended who here was complaning

[OCSKINSFAN]

You do realize that the Buffalo game was only three weeks ago.

Yes I do. The 2 time out calls were a very bad mistake (I otherwise cannot blame the coaching for that game). However, that being a 1 decision error that will not be repeated, I have seen progress (in spurts) in coaching through the season as I noted, culminating in the last 2 games. All this may be moot in any event depending upon how the rest of the season plays out.

[akhhorus]

Worst in the division for four years? Huh? Come on, that's not even close to being true. We did make it to the playoffs.

2004-2007:
Redskins: 28-34(0 division titles, 1-2 playoff appearances)
Eagles: 35-27(2 division titles, 3 playoff appearances)
Giants: 34-28(1 division titles, 3 playoff appearances)
Cowboys: 37-26(1 division title, 2 playoff appearances).

Yes, it is true.

[DCassain21]

does any1 think he is going to accept the offer i dont think he will, now what if he doesn't except the offer, your all be happy and what not, what happen's if gregg williams is our next HC how will you all feel then

[DCassain21]

2004-2007:
Redskins: 28-34(0 division titles, 1-2 playoff appearances)
Eagles: 35-27(2 division titles, 3 playoff appearances)
Giants: 34-28(1 division titles, 3 playoff appearances)
Cowboys: 37-26(1 division title, 2 playoff appearances).

Yes, it is true.

it's a very good divison, and our divison record is a little better now then it was before gibbs

[RedskinsDave]

Worst in the division for four years? Huh? Come on, that's not even close to being true. We did make it to the playoffs.

It's quite true. Over the last four years we have the worst record in the division and, unless we make it this year, will be the only team in the division without multiple trips to the playoffs.

[akhhorus]

yes we all know about the 2 timeouts, and when he hired wiliams after the first year here who here didn't want him, you cant blame him for those cambell plays or really for williams, williams did a hell of a job the first 2 yr's, he deserved and extansion at the time it's biting uss a the behind now but when he was extended who here was complaning

First off: stop and and use grammar. This post of yours is one long run-on sentence full of spelling errors. Since this is a written medium, this is important.

And Williams gets a free pass to decide which players he wants(and to neglect the Dline) and to run the defense all the ways he wants. His performance in 2004 and 2005 are irrelevant because he's totally switched his defense from a 4-6 to a Cover-2 and his defense has fallen apart--even before all the injuries. The person to blame for letting Williams run the defense into the ground is Gibbs.

[RedskinsDave]

Yes I do. The 2 time out calls were a very bad mistake (I otherwise cannot blame the coaching for that game). However, that being a 1 decision error that will not be repeated, I have seen progress (in spurts) in coaching through the season as I noted, culminating in the last 2 games. All this may be moot in any event depending upon how the rest of the season plays out.

How about running the ball on 3rd and 8 when a first down would have ended the game? Nevermind the fact that we were only leading by 2.

[DCassain21]

First off: stop and and use grammar. This post of yours is one long run-on sentence full of spelling errors. Since this is a written medium, this is important.

And Williams gets a free pass to decide which players he wants(and to neglect the Dline) and to run the defense all the ways he wants. His performance in 2004 and 2005 are irrelevant because he's totally switched his defense from a 4-6 to a Cover-2 and his defense has fallen apart--even before all the injuries. The person to blame for letting Williams run the defense into the ground is Gibbs.

How is it gibbs fault? Better?

[greatest2]

so since gibbs gives williams all the power to make decisions on his side of the ball, the errors are gibbs fault, and the success of the defense is with williams? it seems that no matter what the coach does, he will get blame for the bad, and no credit for the good. Anyway i don't want to get in this argument, but i hope gibbs stays til his 100 years old.


oh, and has probably already been reported, JLC said that the skins really HAVEN'T offered a two year extension, and that they will talk about it when the season is over (with snyder wanting to give gibbs an extension.)

[akhhorus]

it's a very good divison

Its an okay division, but its a weak NFC. Thats not counting only playing teams inside the division.

and our divison record is a little better now then it was before gibbs

one game better than Marty, 2 games better than Spurrier.

does any1 think he is going to accept the offer i dont think he will, now what if he doesn't except the offer, your all be happy and what not, what happen's if gregg williams is our next HC how will you all feel then

How does this make Gibbs look better again?

[akhhorus]

How is it gibbs fault? Better?

It's Gibbs' fault for letting Williams be so independent its Gibbs' rep as a coach on the line.

[akhhorus]

so since gibbs gives williams all the power to make decisions on his side of the ball, the errors are gibbs fault, and the success of the defense is with williams? it seems that no matter what the coach does, he will get blame for the bad, and no credit for the good. Anyway i don't want to get in this argument, but i hope gibbs stays til his 100 years old.

Gibbs gets credit for helping to make the team better than it was before he got here and for 2005, but he clearly isn't able to take the next step and make them into a contender. The problem is that the bad clearly outweighs the good with Gibbs II.

[DCassain21]

How does this make Gibbs look better again?[/QUOTE]
That had nothing to do with making Gibbs look better. I was asking a question.

[akhhorus]

That had nothing to do with making Gibbs look better. I was asking a question.

Williams would be worse, of course. This doesn't mean we should keep Gibbs at all.

[DCassain21]

It's Gibbs' fault for letting Williams be so independent its Gibbs' rep as a coach on the line.

Gibbs isn't the dc, do you blame him for letting williams have complete control? He had 2 very good year's, he deserved it at the time. Now that it all went to hell it's somehow Gibba fault.

[DCassain21]

Williams would be worse, of course. This doesn't mean we should keep Gibbs at all.

Doesn't williams have a perk in his contract that alomst gurante's him the job? I would rather keep Gibbs there then give the job to williams

[akhhorus]

Gibbs isn't the dc, do you blame him for letting williams have complete control? He had 2 very good year's, he deserved it at the time. Now that it all went to hell it's somehow Gibba fault.

After last year's performance from the defense, there's ZERO reason for Gibbs to not call Williams into his office and say: "Make changes and I make the final decisions on personnel with defense"(especially after Archuleta, when Arch's agent told Williams flat out that Arch wouldn't work out in DC and Williams said "I'm right, you're wrong" and shocker--Arch sucked). Gibbs didn't, Williams didn't change his defense and surprise: our defense still sucks. Thats on Gibbs.

[akhhorus]

Doesn't williams have a perk in his contract that alomst gurante's him the job?

He gets 1 million dollars if he doesn't replace Gibbs. Thats nothing to Snyder.

I would rather keep Gibbs there then give the job to williams

So, lets keep the bad coach because the only possible candidate in your mind is worse. Thats stupid.

[DCassain21]

After last year's performance from the defense, there's ZERO reason for Gibbs to not call Williams into his office and say: "Make changes and I make the final decisions on personnel with defense"(especially after Archuleta, when Arch's agent told Williams flat out that Arch wouldn't work out in DC and Williams said "I'm right, you're wrong" and shocker--Arch sucked). Gibbs didn't, Williams didn't change his defense and surprise: our defense still sucks. Thats on Gibbs.

How are you going to bring arch into this? Yea he sucked we all know this, but plenty of other player's work out some where else, all the U players. I dont know but is Gibbs a defense mastermind, i dont know if he is, so i dont think that gibbs is just going to walk into williams office a start telling the dc how to do his job. I just dont think it going to happen.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Worst in the division for four years? Huh? Come on, that's not even close to being true. We did make it to the playoffs.

Yeah...not even close to being true....

[DCassain21]

He gets 1 million dollars if he doesn't replace Gibbs. Thats nothing to Snyder.



So, lets keep the bad coach because the only possible candidate in your mind is worse. Thats stupid.

Yea i would rather have Gibbs over williams. Hows that stupid? Giving the past couple years and Dan's loyalty to coache's i think if it's not Gibbs it will be williams.

[RedskinsDave]

Yeah...not even close to being true....

We're also the only team to not win the division in that span. Shhhhh, facts suck.

[DCassain21]

We're also the only team to not win the division in that span. Shhhhh, facts suck.

Yes, the stats are bad but all of you act like if we had any other coach we would be superbowl contender's. Wake up, were a bad franchise and have been for some 15 years now.

[akhhorus]

How are you going to bring arch into this? Yea he sucked we all know this

You didn't read what I wrote. Arch's agent told Williams, before he signed Arch for the Skins, that Arch wouldn't fit in Williams' system. Williams signed him anyways. This is why he needs Gibbs' oversight, and Gibbs just won't do it. That alone should cost Gibbs his job.

but plenty of other player's work out some where else, all the U players.

What the blue hell are you saying here?

I dont know but is Gibbs a defense mastermind, i dont know if he is, so i dont think that gibbs is just going to walk into williams office a start telling the dc how to do his job. I just dont think it going to happen.

Williams had a great defensive plan in 2004 and 2005, he then decided to switch to a defense he's never run in 2006. And he stayed in that defense this year. It doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure out that Williams' switch to a bad defensive scheme might be the problem. Gibbs saw the games better than we did, and he won't tell Williams to go back to the old scheme? Why not? And thats what's you do as a head coach. Gibbs failed.

Yea i would rather have Gibbs over williams. Hows that stupid? Giving the past couple years and Dan's loyalty to coache's i think if it's not Gibbs it will be williams.

Dan's loyal to coaches? He sure has fired a lot of them. And what's stupid is the thinking that since Snyder would only hire Williams to replace Gibbs, we should keep Gibbs. Thats moronic.

[akhhorus]

Yes, the stats are bad but all of you act like if we had any other coach we would be superbowl contender's. Wake up, were a bad franchise and have been for some 15 years now.

There is no doubt we would be a better team with a better head coach(and better DC and better GM).

[RedskinsDave]

Yes, the stats are bad but all of you act like if we had any other coach we would be superbowl contender's. Wake up, were a bad franchise and have been for some 15 years now.

So you'd rather stay sucking because Gibbs used to be good? Well that makes perfect sense. If I'm going to have someone hit me in the face with a baseball bat, I prefer it was a family member. Same, same.

[DCassain21]

You didn't read what I wrote. Arch's agent told Williams, before he signed Arch for the Skins, that Arch wouldn't fit in Williams' system. Williams signed him anyways. This is why he needs Gibbs' oversight, and Gibbs just won't do it. That alone should cost Gibbs his job.



What the blue hell are you saying here?



Williams had a great defensive plan in 2004 and 2005, he then decided to switch to a defense he's never run in 2006. And he stayed in that defense this year. It doesn't take Vince Lombardi to figure out that Williams' switch to a bad defensive scheme might be the problem. Gibbs saw the games better than we did, and he won't tell Williams to go back to the old scheme? Why not? And thats what's you do as a head coach. Gibbs failed.



Dan's loyal to coaches? He sure has fired a lot of them. And what's stupid is the thinking that since Snyder would only hire Williams to replace Gibbs, we should keep Gibbs. Thats moronic.

Every1 here knows gibb's isn't going to just tell williams how to do his job, i dont think many hc's would, but in your eyes they all would.

When you said arch not working out in DC, i thought your were talking about him not doing the work outs in DC and did the work outs at his home. My bad.

Yes Dan has been loyal to coaches over the past couple of years, he was going to keep spurrier, never even thought about firing Gibbs, Williams, or Saunders after last years terrible season. Your taking my words of text i dont want to keep Gibbs just so we dont gent williams, I want Gibbs to stay for other reasons, I already noted.I just personally think if Gibbs goes Williams will get the job.

[DCassain21]

There is no doubt we would be a better team with a better head coach(and better DC and better GM).

Wow, no way would we be better with a better HC, DC, and GM. Who would have thought. You can very easily get a worse HC and DC. GM yes we do need.

[akhhorus]

Every1 here knows gibb's isn't going to just tell williams how to do his job, i dont think many hc's would, but in your eyes they all would.

Thats nonsense. There's no other head coach I can think of that would tell Williams how to do his job or to stop giving him total control after an extremely poor performance. Now you're just looking for anything to justify supporting Gibbs, and its sad.


Yes Dan has been loyal to coaches over the past couple of years, he was going to keep spurrier, never even thought about firing Gibbs, Williams, or Saunders after last years terrible season.

That has nothing to do with him firing Norv, Marty and Casserly for less. Snyder hasn't shown any loyalty to a head coach, and only Gibbs' name saves his job.

Your taking my words of text i dont want to keep Gibbs just so we dont gent williams, I want Gibbs to stay for other reasons, I already noted.I just personally think if Gibbs goes Williams will get the job.

If Gibbs goes, Williams goes first. If Williams is the coach, then we'll be lucky to win 5 a year. This isnt a reason to keep Gibbs(which is your point).

[akhhorus]

Wow, no way would we be better with a better HC, DC, and GM. Who would have thought. You can very easily get a worse HC and DC. GM yes we do need.

Let me see, the defense has been poor for 2 straight years, I don't think we could do much worse at all there. And for the 5th time, its not hard to find a coach who could go 28-34 with 20 blown halftime leads out of the 34.

[DCassain21]

So you'd rather stay sucking because Gibbs used to be good? Well that makes perfect sense. If I'm going to have someone hit me in the face with a baseball bat, I prefer it was a family member. Same, same.

Do you guys think the next coach is going to take us to the SB, i could be better or he could be worse. In my eyes Gibbs hasn't done that bad in building a team. Cut half the injuries in half and bring ST back and we would be a really good, football team. Without a doubt a big conender. Even after all the injuries and the death of ST were still in it, many coaches can't do that with half those problems.

[akhhorus]

Do you guys think the next coach is going to take us to the SB, i could be better or he could be worse. In my eyes Gibbs hasn't done that bad in building a team. Cut half the injuries in half and bring ST back and we would be a really good, football team. Without a doubt a big conender. Even after all the injuries and the death of ST were still in it, many coaches can't do that with half those problems.

We had the same problems in previous years with bad coaching and blown games. The injuries have effected certain parts of the team, but don't explain why they just blow game after game and lose games they shouldn't.

[RedskinsDave]

Do you guys think the next coach is going to take us to the SB, i could be better or he could be worse. In my eyes Gibbs hasn't done that bad in building a team. Cut half the injuries in half and bring ST back and we would be a really good, football team. Without a doubt a big conender. Even after all the injuries and the death of ST were still in it, many coaches can't do that with half those problems.

Why do you keep saying we think another coach would take us to the Super Bowl? No one has said that. Man, you're making my head hurt.

[DCassain21]

Let me see, the defense has been poor for 2 straight years, I don't think we could do much worse at all there. And for the 5th time, its not hard to find a coach who could go 28-34 with 20 blown halftime leads out of the 34.

For the 5th time not all those blown leads are Gibbs fault, they player's do have to make plays sometimes. For the record the D isn't really that bad 10th in D and only let up two td's in what 20+ quarters.

[DCassain21]

Why do you keep saying we think another coach would take us to the Super Bowl? No one has said that. Man, you're making my head hurt.

You guy's sure are talking like it. If we make playoffs this year, 2 out of 4 isn't good enough for you guys. So i assumed SB or nothing.

[IH Brave]

Do you guys think the next coach is going to take us to the SB, i could be better or he could be worse. In my eyes Gibbs hasn't done that bad in building a team. Cut half the injuries in half and bring ST back and we would be a really good, football team. Without a doubt a big conender. Even after all the injuries and the death of ST were still in it, many coaches can't do that with half those problems.

I agree that injuries have been hurting this team. However, despite the injuries I've seen to many times where the team was in position to win only to have lost. Mos tof the losses were due to conservative play calling on offense and/or prevent (the win) defense. That's on the coaches. Some people may say it's the players' fault for not executing. But I want to know how many times do the players need to fail to execute before the coaches figure out they need to go back to what was working?

Don't get me wrong. I love Joe Gibbs. I appreciate everything that he has done for this franchise. But in my opinion it is time for him to move on. I've seen enough to convince me that Gibbs can't take the team to the next level.

[RedskinsDave]

You guy's sure are talking like it. If we make playoffs this year, 2 out of 4 isn't good enough for you guys. So i assumed SB or nothing.

If you're going to throw out ridiculous assumptions, you probably shouldn't bother debating people. All we have said is things have not been good. That is a fact. I won't speak for anyone else, but I do think there are a bunch of coaches who would be doing better. Leading the NFL in blown halftime leads puts a coach among the worst of his peers.

[DCassain21]

We had the same problems in previous years with bad coaching and blown games. The injuries have effected certain parts of the team, but don't explain why they just blow game after game and lose games they shouldn't.

OK another thing no one has talked about, besides the giant's and packer's we were never in complete controll of those games, up by maybe a td at most in almost all of them. It's not like they been blowing 14 and 21 point leads it's been like 2,5,6 point leads.

[RedskinsDave]

OK another thing no one has talked about, besides the giant's and packer's we were never in complete controll of those games, up by maybe a td at most in almost all of them. It's not like they been blowing 14 and 21 point leads it's been like 2,5,6 point leads.

LMAO. Now we're discounting the blown leads because they could have been worse. You flat out don't have any expectations of Gibbs. His mere existence is a good thing to you. We get it now.

[DCassain21]

I agree that injuries have been hurting this team. However, despite the injuries I've seen to many times where the team was in position to win only to have lost. Mos tof the losses were due to conservative play calling on offense and/or prevent (the win) defense. That's on the coaches. Some people may say it's the players' fault for not executing. But I want to know how many times do the players need to fail to execute before the coaches figure out they need to go back to what was working?

Don't get me wrong. I love Joe Gibbs. I appreciate everything that he has done for this franchise. But in my opinion it is time for him to move on. I've seen enough to convince me that Gibbs can't take the team to the next level.

Yes and in the last 2 games the skins have been much more aggresive and the results are much better.

[IH Brave]

Yes and in the last 2 games the skins have been much more aggresive and the results are much better.


That's true, but my problem is what took them so long to be more aggressive? They should have done this after the blown lead against the Giants.

[akhhorus]

For the 5th time not all those blown leads are Gibbs fault, they player's do have to make plays sometimes. For the record the D isn't really that bad 10th in D and only let up two td's in what 20+ quarters.

When there's 20 of them in 4 years, its not just the players, or injuries, or whatever excuse you want to bring up next.

OK another thing no one has talked about, besides the giant's and packer's we were never in complete controll of those games, up by maybe a td at most in almost all of them. It's not like they been blowing 14 and 21 point leads it's been like 2,5,6 point leads.

We were up 17-3 against the Giants. And we've blown leads of all stripes.

[akhhorus]

Yes and in the last 2 games the skins have been much more aggresive and the results are much better.

They have been? They let Eli sit back all night without blitzing, and we were only saved by the Giants deciding to butter up their fingers pre game. We weren't aggressive in the Bears' game either. They just stalled out inside the red zone after we let them go down the field on us the whole 2nd half.

[DCassain21]

LMAO. Now we're discounting the blown leads because they could have been worse. You flat out don't have any expectations of Gibbs. His mere existence is a good thing to you. We get it now.

To tell you the truth i could care less about Gibbs being the coach, because i wasn't alive for any of his SB's except one. I just dont think he's done that bad of a job. Yes we get a new coach could be better i understand that, but we could also get a bad new coach, and what happen's if he does bad fire him after 2 years. Then go back 6yrs ago and have a new head coach every other year.

[akhhorus]

To tell you the truth i could care less about Gibbs being the coach, because i wasn't alive for any of his SB's except one. I just dont think he's done that bad of a job. Yes we get a new coach could be better i understand that, but we could also get a bad new coach, and what happen's if he does bad fire him after 2 years. Then go back 6yrs ago and have a new head coach every other year.

What? What does going back 6 years have anything to do with Gibbs' performance as coach?

[DCassain21]

They have been? They let Eli sit back all night without blitzing, and we were only saved by the Giants deciding to butter up their fingers pre game. We weren't aggressive in the Bears' game either. They just stalled out inside the red zone after we let them go down the field on us the whole 2nd half.

Yea but atleast they didn't just run 3 and out every drive. The giants had 8 drops that game 6 were in the first half, the giant's dropping balls wasn't the reason they couldn't produce late.

[DCassain21]

What? What does going back 6 years have anything to do with Gibbs' performance as coach?

Before Gibbs we would change coaches like it was cool. Players hated it and fans hated it. Here we have a chance of consisity, but everyone would rather bring in a new coach and rebuild again.

[akhhorus]

Yea but atleast they didn't just run 3 and out every drive.

What? Who didn't just run 3 and out? The Skins? The defense's aggression has been the problem, they still aren't aggressive.

The giants had 8 drops that game 6 were in the first half, the giant's dropping balls wasn't the reason they couldn't produce late.

The Giants had far more than 8 drops. Jacobs alone had more than 5 by himself, Plax and Toomer had as many combined.

[akhhorus]

Before Gibbs we would change coaches like it was cool. Players hated it and fans hated it. Here we have a chance of consisity, but everyone would rather bring in a new coach and rebuild again.

We've had consistency. We've had Gibbs for 4 years and we're still stuck in neutral. Just because Snyder fired a bunch of coaches in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't fire Gibbs because of his performance. You're just looking for any reason to justify keeping Gibbs, rather than looking at the situation honestly.

[RedskinsDave]

Before Gibbs we would change coaches like it was cool. Players hated it and fans hated it. Here we have a chance of consisity, but everyone would rather bring in a new coach and rebuild again.

Yes, let's not change a thing for the sake of not changing a thing. If you're ever a parent, don't take that same attitude towards diapers.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I have a question for all the Gibbs supporters: since obviously in your opinion Gibbs is the only coach that is capable of leading this team (I still haven't figured out where, but that's a different issue), what happens if he decides to not extend his contract? Or what happens if he does and leaves at the end of next year anyways? Or what happens, if he stays 3 more years, after that?

[DCassain21]

What? Who didn't just run 3 and out? The Skins? The defense's aggression has been the problem, they still aren't aggressive.



The Giants had far more than 8 drops. Jacobs alone had more than 5 by himself, Plax and Toomer had as many combined.

The redskins have been running 3 and out all year trying to run time off the clock, but ended up just giving the ball to the other team and letting them drive down and score, and yes it was only 8 drops.

[DCassain21]

I have a question for all the Gibbs supporters: since obviously in your opinion Gibbs is the only coach that is capable of leading this team (I still haven't figured out where, but that's a different issue), what happens if he decides to not extend his contract? Or what happens if he does and leaves at the end of next year anyways? Or what happens, if he stays 3 more years, after that?

I already stated i dont think he's going to accept the offer. After next year im almost confident he's done. When that time comes it comes, but i dont want to push him out the door like many here.

[RedskinsDave]

The redskins have been running 3 and out all year trying to run time off the clock, but ended up just giving the ball to the other team and letting them drive down and score, and yes it was only 8 drops.

Wrong.

His receivers dropped 12 passes to contribute more misery, including five by Brandon Jacobs and one by a wide-open Amani Toomer in the third quarter with the Giants trying in vain to rally.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/ny-spgiants175504977dec17,0,2284694.story

[IH Brave]

I have a question for all the Gibbs supporters: since obviously in your opinion Gibbs is the only coach that is capable of leading this team (I still haven't figured out where, but that's a different issue), what happens if he decides to not extend his contract? Or what happens if he does and leaves at the end of next year anyways? Or what happens, if he stays 3 more years, after that?


If Gibbs leaves then I guess the Redskins will end up with a coach who will try to call 3 consecutive timeouts to ice the kicker. After all, no one else can lead this team. J/K

[DCassain21]

Yes, let's not change a thing for the sake of not changing a thing. If you're ever a parent, don't take that same attitude towards diapers.

He's not that bad of a coach maybe 2 playoffs in 4 years was unheard of before he came back.

[RedskinsDave]

He's not that bad of a coach maybe 2 playoffs in 4 years was unheard of before he came back.

For the last time, stop using the years before he came to judge him. Judge his tenure. It's not good. :rolleyes:

[SpicyMcHaggis]

The redskins have been running 3 and out all year trying to run time off the clock, but ended up just giving the ball to the other team and letting them drive down and score, and yes it was only 8 drops.
Wait, I thought you were defending Gibbs....

[DCassain21]

Wrong.



http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/giants/ny-spgiants175504977dec17,0,2284694.story

Yea my bad it said atleast 8 dropped.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20071216019&prov=ap

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I already stated i dont think he's going to accept the offer. After next year im almost confident he's done. When that time comes it comes, but i dont want to push him out the door like many here.
That doesn't really answer my question at all...

[MPCSkins]

He's not that bad of a coach maybe 2 playoffs in 4 years was unheard of before he came back.

2 playoffs in 4 years?? Who's in the playoffs this year? We certainly aren't yet.

[DCassain21]

That doesn't really answer my question at all...

I dont know whats going to happing when that time comes, i did answer your question. When that time comes we deal with it then, what do you want me to say.

[DCassain21]

2 playoffs in 4 years?? Who's in the playoffs this year? We certainly aren't yet.

There is a maybe in front of it.

[shane88]

And it's not only that. IF we even get to the playoffs this season, but in both instances, just how good of teams are/were they?? Not very good,imo.

[RedskinsDave]

And it's not only that. IF we even get to the playoffs this season, but in both instances, just how good of teams are/were they?? Not very good,imo.

Exactly. Even if we make it, both of those teams were under .500 after the midway point in the season.

[Biggie]

Exactly. Even if we make it, both of those teams were under .500 after the midway point in the season.
Not true. The '05 Redskins were 5-3 in the second half of the season.

[IH Brave]

Not true. The '05 Redskins were 5-3 in the second half of the season.


I think what Redskins Dave means is that at one point the team was 5-6 which is after the midway point in the season.

This post was edited.

[RedskinsDave]

Not true. The '05 Redskins were 5-3 in the second half of the season.

AFTER the halfway point, not at.

[NCskinsfanatic]

AFTER the halfway point, not at.

After the halfway point we won 5 in a row right so we had to go atleast 5-3 in the second half, or am I misunderstanding the question?

[silverspring]

There is a maybe in front of it.

You know gibbs isn't some high school coach that we should be patient with because he is working a ton of hours for basically charity. He is getting paid 5 million dollars a year. The only limit on his budget has been the cap. For 4 years, he can't manage a game consistently, his player personnel decisions are questionable, his coaching staff personnel decisions are questionable, his staff is riddled with communication problems, and he is only getting older and slower. And even if we do make the playoffs it isn't like we are making it on our own merits, we make the playoffs at the mercy of math.

What exactly has he done to earn an extension?

[RedskinsDave]

After the halfway point we won 5 in a row right so we had to go atleast 5-3 in the second half, or am I misunderstanding the question?

My point is we HAD to win 5 in a row just to get the last seed because we were sub-.500. We will have to win 4 to do the same thing this year. Good teams don't put themselves in that situation.

[IH Brave]

Okay let me try this again. There still seems to be confusion. I think what Dave is saying is their overall record after the midpoint of the season was under .500. In the 2005 season before the Redskins won 5 in a row, their overall record was 5-6. That is past the half way point and they had an under .500 record.

[NCskinsfanatic]

My point is we HAD to win 5 in a row just to get the last seed because we were sub-.500. We will have to win 4 to do the same thing this year. Good teams don't put themselves in that situation.

Ok that makes sense, sorry about the mix up. And you're right we shouldn't have to wait until seasons end to make a playoff push. With that being said... I'll still take it over no push at all.

[IH Brave]

By the way folks, I apologize for being late to any replies. The local fire department in my neighborhood just sent out a convey to escort Santa Claus through our area. It's of the more exciting moments here in Indian Head, Maryland.

But back to football. I think it is time for Gibbs to go. I'm not for firing him. I feel he has earned the right not to be fired due to what he did in his first stint as coach. However, I'm basing that on my feeling that Gibbs can realize he has taken this team as far as he can.

[higgybaby]

It would be my wish that he would accept a role in the front office in leiu of an extension as the head coach. This would prevent the contract limbo with passing the torch on to one of the current staff so that we can also prevent the problems of rebuilding.

[Biggie]

My point is we HAD to win 5 in a row just to get the last seed because we were sub-.500. We will have to win 4 to do the same thing this year. Good teams don't put themselves in that situation.
Oh, gotcha. Good point. We always have to go on a run just to make it in.

[Biggie]

So, um, that twelve men on the field thing was genius. I still don't think he should come back, but I think we can stop yelling at him for the consecutive timeouts - he's redeemed himself.

[akhhorus]

So, um, that twelve men on the field thing was genius. I still don't think he should come back, but I think we can stop yelling at him for the consecutive timeouts - he's redeemed himself.

Totally disagree. It was a good call by someone upstairs. Gibbs still really screwed things up at the last second with the timeouts.

[Biggie]

Totally disagree. It was a good call by someone upstairs. Gibbs still really screwed things up at the last second with the timeouts.
Can I at least give him credit for throwing the flag?

[CNYSkinFan]

Totally disagree. It was a good call by someone upstairs. Gibbs still really screwed things up at the last second with the timeouts.
I think Sean Taylor called down from heaven and said "Coahc throw the flag"

Still brilliant challenge...just brilliant

[akhhorus]

Can I at least give him credit for throwing the flag?

And he deserves that. But there's no way he saw that in person or on the big screen.

[Biggie]

And he deserves that. But there's no way he saw that in person or on the big screen.
True. You think we secretly hired an Assistant Head Coach-Counting Opposing Players?

[ryflan47]

True. You think we secretly hired an Assistant Head Coach-Counting Opposing Players?

After tonight we should, lol

[CNYSkinFan]

And he deserves that. But there's no way he saw that in person or on the big screen.
probably not but he could have asked the booth to check it...maybe.

I don't care right now Gibbs has led this team to be in the position of making the playoffs with all the injuries and ST tragedy. That alone makes me think Gibbs deserves an extension. His game management is suspect, but he is a leader of men, and these players love him.

[CNYSkinFan]

After tonight we should, lol
Snyder's writing someone a bonus check right now

[akhhorus]

probably not but he could have asked the booth to check it...maybe.

I don't care right now Gibbs has led this team to be in the position of making the playoffs with all the injuries and ST tragedy. That alone makes me think Gibbs deserves an extension. His game management is suspect, but he is a leader of men, and these players love him.

As I said earlier in this thread, Gibbs has done an amazing job holding this team together: BUT, he's also gotten about all the possible help we could have gotten in the playoff picture and why can't he lead this team when its early october and we lose winnable games?

[greatest2]

give him a break, you see all that has happened this year. THe fact that we had all those winnable games is a tribute to him holdiong this team together and having the play for him. Sure we lost them, but with another head coach maybe we not even in those games.


whatever, give coach an extension, he can't leave without another ring!!!

[FightforoldDC]

Imagine: losing the right side of your line, your best player to murder, Carlos Rogers, your QB, injuries piling up. And you continue to keep your team focused and winning when they could have relaxed. Whatever you may say about Joe, you cannot deny his understanding of leadership. Yes, he doesn't breed confidence when he keeps saying "well ... sort of, kind of ...." The fact is that this guy is very strong and his team believes in him.

[CNYSkinFan]

As I said earlier in this thread, Gibbs has done an amazing job holding this team together: BUT, he's also gotten about all the possible help we could have gotten in the playoff picture and why can't he lead this team when its early october and we lose winnable games?
I understand, believe me. After Buffalo I really thought for the first time it might be time for him to go. But this team is responding to him and I will give him credit for that.

Do I wish we would avoid the mid season slump we always go on, yes, but I contend if a coach leads a team to multiple playoff appearances in his first four years, when said team had only 1 in the previous 15 years, an extension is not out of order.