Akh's Thoughts Week 16

[akhhorus]

What we learned from the Redskins’ victory over the Vikings

Prologue: You gotta want it-Prop Joe

1-Why are we seeing heart only now? Why, under Gibbs, has this team only really shown heart when they’re against the wall or all but finished for the playoffs? Why can’t we see this in October and early November? Why can’t Gibbs use his “come together” speech before we’re 5-7?

1a-More than anything, this shows how there aren’t many leaders on this team. Either on the field or on the sidelines.

2-I was all ready to write a long passage on how good Williams’ game plan was-stacking the line and jamming the gaps to take advantage of Peterson’s style. HOWEVER, we saw the old crappy Gregg Williams in the 2nd half. Same soft coverages. Same lack of blitzes. Same bad results. What’s more depressing is how little I expect Gibbs to do anything about this.

3-Another great game by Portis, he’s really coming on when this team needed him. 130+ total yards and 2 total TDs. 1500 total yards for CP this year.

3a-Whether or not Portis will stay with the skins is a firmly closed debate. This team, barring a total offensive change, only goes as far as Portis takes them.

4-Todd Collins had a very solid game playing tonight, but I can’t get excited about beating up the worst pass defense in the NFL missing their top Cb. He’s still more a manager than a QB, and the team leans more on Portis than they did with Campbell.

4a-Despite his good games, Campbell still should be the starter if he’s healthy in the playoffs—if we make them.

5-Moss, Cooley and Randle El all played good stretches tonight, but we have yet to see anyone of them really take over a game from start to finish.

5a-Moss’ catch over McCauley was amazing, and Cooley’s TD catch was textbook on how to fake out a Safety.

6-The Oline played well against a good defense, Kendall played well against the Williams sisters. Samuels, outside of his false starts, was great again. I just can’t wait for the end of the Jason Fabini era in DC lol

7-I’m fairly sure that Al Michaels broadcasts alone in the booth, and what we know as John Madden is being controlled by the people behind the Lord of the Rings special effects. He doesn’t even look human anymore, its like some bad anime character, and they sample in his quotes from the video game.

8-Great game today by the DTs: Evans, Monty, Griff, Golston all played extremely well against a great interior Oline. Monty did a good job tying up Hutchinson all night.

9-Springs & Smoot both had good INTs tonight, but they also looked essentially useless in those zones Williams is obsessed with. The vikes basically have no one at WR with Rice out, and they made Williamson and Gage look competent out there. Why Gregg why do you play them in those zones?

10-Adrian Peterson should hold a telethon during the offseason for a new QB. “We have D. McNabb from Philly on the line…what would it take for you to play QB for me?!....No go…okay…we have Chad P from New York also calling in? Hang up on him.” If Adrian sings “You’ll never walk alone” to a cardboard cut out of Tom Brady while chewing on a lozenge(like Jerry Lewis does every year), I’m getting out my checkbook lmao.


Team grades
Offense:
X WR Santana Moss 8.65. Really solid game for Santana, but he also disappeared at times.
Z WR Antwaan Randle El 8.65. See above
LT Chris Samuels 8.5 A couple bad false starts, but otherwise was solid as always.
LG Pete Kendall 9.2. A really great game against a great set of DTs
OC Casey Rabach 7.25. He called a good game, but struggled blocking all night.
RG Jason Fabini 2. I really didn’t see him hold a block all night.
RT Stephon Heyer 8.9. Very good game, but struggled with the blitz pick ups.
TE Chris Cooley 7.7. Great TD catch, but disappear for the rest of the night.
QB Todd Collins 8. Solid game for the Vet.
FB Mike Sellers 7.5 Solid game, and probably got screwed out of a TD.
RB Clinton Portis 9. Didn’t have 100 yards, but controlled the game and drove the offense.
K Scott Suisham 8.5. The FG miss wasn’t his fault, solid kickoffs.
KR Rock Cartwright 6.5. Meh

Defense:
DE Andre Carter 6.2. I barely heard his name all night.
DT Anthony Montgomery 8.5. Great game giving Hutch a handful.
DT Cornie Griffin 8.25 Gave Birk another handful.
DE Philip Daniels 6. I had to double check that he played lol
SLB Marcus Washington 6.5 Meh. He’s been Mehing a lot.
MLB London Fletcher 8.25. Really solid game against the run, but struggled in pass coverage.
WLB Randall Godfrey 7.25. Solid job filling in for Rocky.
CB Shawn Springs 7.25. Good INT, but bad zone coverage.
CB Fred Smoot 7.7. Better INT, also struggled in the 2nd half.
FS LaRon Landry 8. Another solid game, he took away the middle of the field and the deep ball all night.
SS Reed Doughty 6.7. This is why I can’t get too excited about him. He made a couple plays, but generally wasn’t a factor when he was on the field.
P Derrick Frost 6.5. Muffed hold and was so-so in punting.
PR Antwaan Randle El 4. Non-factor.

Coaching:
Offense: B+/A-
Defense: First half A, Second half D+(and a kick to the groin)
Overall: B-

Next week: Officiating Fent's wedding, so probably no column lol.

[CNYSkinFan]

pretty much spot on. I also think JC should start if he gets healthy enough...Collins has done a good job, better then I ever expected, but we are extremely limited in our passing attack with him in the game IMO

[GreenspanDan]

jesus, we smash a team we're supposed to lose to, and you STILL can't help but criticize all our primary contributors. pathetic.

[skinsfan36]

im tired of the cover 2 in the second half i dont want to see it the rest of the year!

[shally]

great stuff as usual..

but i dont think you are giving collins quite enough credit. he gets the ball off in time and throws a soft catchable ball. he made 2 stupid fumbles that could have seriously hurt the team, but i think overall he gives the team a far better chance of winning right now than cambell.. and that includes the playoffs.

you just have to think about the jags pulling garrard in favor of a recovering leftwich in the playoffs to see what would happen. even if JC is better, he will be rusty and his timing will be off. collins has handled 2 hostile road games in a row with little margin for error.. IMHO he gets to finish out the year..

as far as the second half defense, why would anyone expect williams to adapt to any team's change in offense ? his defensive schemes are set in stone with the cover 2 being the default setting.. he has to be the most fossilized adjuster inthe history of def coordinators

[shally]

pretty much spot on. I also think JC should start if he gets healthy enough...Collins has done a good job, better then I ever expected, but we are extremely limited in our passing attack with him in the game IMO

collins hasnt made very many mistakes in his throws.. our limited passing attack got us some points on the vikes and giants

[GreenspanDan]

and another thing - that vikings team had won 5 straight. that is tough to do against ANY five opponents in today's NFL. i think you are mistakaken to trivialize them. this was a GOOD team and we BEAT them handily. thatg says something.

[FunBunch5]

I agree with most of your article accept for starting Campbell. IMO we would mess up the chemistry that we have right, and the offense has moved better with Collins.

[shally]

and another thing - that vikings team had won 5 straight. that is tough to do against ANY five opponents in today's NFL. i think you are mistakaken to trivialize them. this was a GOOD team and we BEAT them handily. thatg says something.

what is says is that our team should have been giving dallas and green bay a run for the #1 and #2 seeds instead of struggling to make the playoffs at the very end.
where was this kind of effort in sept and october ?

[CNYSkinFan]

I agree with most of your article accept for starting Campbell. IMO we would mess up the chemistry that we have right, and the offense has moved better with Collins.
I dont see alot of players out there saying we have to ride with Todd...I give credit where credit is due, he kows the offense and has produced. However the BEars, Giants, and Vikings defenses have alot to be desired, and I dont want to see those floating COllins passes against Seattle if I dont have to

[FightforoldDC]

and another thing - that vikings team had won 5 straight. that is tough to do against ANY five opponents in today's NFL. i think you are mistakaken to trivialize them. this was a GOOD team and we BEAT them handily. thatg says something.


Agreed. Second win, playing away against two very good teams. We are playing banged-up, with a back-up QB that has hardly taken any snaps. Top run team, top run defense. And we beat them on both counts. Again, we have a pretty bland QB, but at least he doesn't give it away.

[LATrueRedskin]

Fantastic game by Portis today. He's really showing the most fight on this team, and he absolutely refuses to lose.

[FunBunch5]

I dont see alot of players out there saying we have to ride with Todd...I give credit where credit is due, he kows the offense and has produced. However the BEars, Giants, and Vikings defenses have alot to be desired, and I dont want to see those floating COllins passes against Seattle if I dont have to

I think it would throw off the teams timing if Jason was put back in there. IMO we should ride Todd out this year and turn it back over to Jason next summer.

[shally]

I dont see alot of players out there saying we have to ride with Todd...I give credit where credit is due, he kows the offense and has produced. However the BEars, Giants, and Vikings defenses have alot to be desired, and I dont want to see those floating COllins passes against Seattle if I dont have to

collins tonight: 22/29 254 yards 2 td's 0 int's

i would bet the qb rating is over 100

giant defense is suspect ? viking defense was good enough for them to win 5 straight before tonight... bears ? maybe their offense is suspect, but their defense is just fine and they totally throttled green bay for the second time this year !!

what do you want from collins ? if JC had turned in a game with stats like that everybody would be crowing how solid he was

you dont want to see collins floating passes against seattle ?? i will take floating passes that hit the receivers in stride instead of being behind them or tipping off their hands, any day.. c'mon.. where is the hatred coming from ? when is the last time we had a 3 game winning streak under JC ?

now, i am NOT saying that there should be an open competition for starter next year.. no way ! this is JC's team next year. but this year ? if we beat dallas with collins as qb, there is ZERO question who should be the qb in the playoffs..this team simply has a better chance of winning right now with a healthy collins than with an injured campbell. he will not be ready this year.

[shally]

I dont see alot of players out there saying we have to ride with Todd...I give credit where credit is due, he kows the offense and has produced. However the BEars, Giants, and Vikings defenses have alot to be desired, and I dont want to see those floating COllins passes against Seattle if I dont have to

players arent going to say anything about either qb... except that they can win with either.. that is poppycock

[CNYSkinFan]

collins tonight: 22/29 254 yards 2 td's 0 int's

i would bet the qb rating is over 100

giant defense is suspect ? viking defense was good enough for them to win 5 straight before tonight... bears ? maybe their offense is suspect, but their defense is just fine and they totally throttled green bay for the second time this year !!

what do you want from collins ? if JC had turned in a game with stats like that everybody would be crowing how solid he was

you dont want to see collins floating passes against seattle ?? i will take floating passes that hit the receivers in stride instead of being behind them or tipping off their hands, any day.. c'mon.. where is the hatred coming from ? when is the last time we had a 3 game winning streak under JC ?

now, i am NOT saying that there should be an open competition for starter next year.. no way ! this is JC's team next year. but this year ? if we beat dallas with collins as qb, there is ZERO question who should be the qb in the playoffs..this team simply has a better chance of winning right now with a healthy collins than with an injured campbell. he will not be ready this year.
I give way more credit to CP and the defense (and giant's miscues) then TC. Don't get me wrong, he was serviceable, but IMO we stand a better chance to win with JC then TC.

I think you overestimate the bears, Giants, and vikings D, espescially against the pass.

The Bears (24) & Vikings (32) are two of the more pathetic pass defensive teams, and falling. The Giants are #8 and Collins went 8 for 26 (but i will give him credit for the wind and of course getting the win).

Sorry I just dont see some of those completions coming against Seattle in the playoffs. I alos like the added dimension of JC running that will get a few first downs a game.

I will support TC ast the starting QB because he wears the B&G,m but IMO JC gives us a better chance to win.

[CNYSkinFan]

players arent going to say anything about either qb... except that they can win with either.. that is poppycock
So you know the player's mind through their nonstatements? All I am saying is I don't buy the whole "chemistry" argument. I think that is poppycock

(and seriously who says poppy cock nowadays :) )

[silverspring]

Portis really impressed me tonight. I haven't seen him look so shifty in a long time. He was bustin out some moves tonight.

Offense was solid. Defense was solid. Great game.

[Biggie]

So you know the player's mind through their nonstatements? All I am saying is I don't buy the whole "chemistry" argument. I think that is poppycock

(and seriously who says poppy cock nowadays )
Shally's bringing back that '50s slang.

Also, spot on akh.

[CNYSkinFan]

Shally's bringing back that '50s slang.

Also, spot on akh.
1850's (oh blue you know I joke..your my boy blue)

[ClubLevel305]

Seriously, AKH, you talk a great game and you can put your words well on paper. But, did you ever play the game? I really don't think you played...at any level. You rant too much and it has become very boring for alot of us hardcore fans. Especially those of us who have played the game at a higher level than you ever did.

[CNYSkinFan]

Seriously, AKH, you talk a great game and you can put your words well on paper. But, did you ever play the game? I really don't think you played...at any level. You rant too much and it has become very boring for alot of us hardcore fans. Especially those of us who have played the game at a higher level than you ever did.
i normally don't dd this but....

How bored can you be with 4 posts?

Seriously peopel is anyone making you read stuff on hr message boards? IF you disagree fine, bring the heat. But just to slam the poster or author is plain ridiculous.

[oldskinfan]

Akh, appreciate the commentary, but overall I think you are a bit hard on the D. I for one am very proud of this whole team and the staff. I think this was their most consistent performance from beginning to end all year except for maybe the Detroit game.

This was a solid win against a team that had won 5 in a row and were annointed the team "no one wants to play" in the playoffs by all the experts. The D came in and, in my opinion, set the tone to give the O an opportunity to get us out to a big lead, which plays to the Vike's weakness on Offense - an inexperienced QB.

I hope coach Joe gives the players off until Wed after this one. After all, you can't expect Dallas to show their cards next week.

[redskin_rich]

I thought Andre Carter played very good tonight. Not so much as a pass rusher but he made a couple key stops against the run. Also, he played a lot of the game on the opposite side of the line, which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. Also I thought Marcus had a good game, again in bottling up the run.
The run stopping occurred in the first half but that was when we took away their strength and built our sizable lead.

I have already stated my opinions on the QB situation, pertaining to if we make the playoffs, so I'm not going to continue that argument. I trust that Joe Gibbs will handle the situation correctly and speaking of which...

How about Joe's masterful gamecalling tonight? I always call it like I see it and tonight, Joe was brilliant.

[oldskinfan]

but i dont think you are giving collins quite enough credit. he gets the ball off in time and throws a soft catchable ball.

If you watch the post game interview of TC, you hear he mentions that it took him a long time to understand that getting the ball out (timing) is crucial for this offense...but when you do this right (even if it seems too fast) things can really click.

If there's any knock on JC, it's that his reads and getting the ball out could be quicker. I think that will come w/ time and he will actually learn from watching TC these past weeks.

Barring injury I say next year is when this O will really click regularly.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

i normally don't dd this but....

How bored can you be with 4 posts?

Seriously peopel is anyone making you read stuff on hr message boards? IF you disagree fine, bring the heat. But just to slam the poster or author is plain ridiculous.
Well, he joined since March 2004. And I'm on nobody's side here, lol

[SkinKing]

Good write up. although I didnt mind the soft coverage in the second half with that big of a lead. G.Williams has stated playing clock management on defense is something he likes to do until the game becomes 2 scores. I'm happy with that.. I know your not a fan of him but hey it's a fan board, disagreeing will always happen.

Your Collins comment is right on, although you have to be syked about the way he handled the pass rush. He didn't force anything or make stupid decisions. I'm growing fond of him by the moment. Campbell is obviously much more talented but Collins gives us a better chance to win right now. Only because he knows the offense better than anyone besides Saunders himself.

Portis had a great day. Although until I see him break one this season I will look at him as a serviceable back. No better blocking RB in the league. I liked his vision tonight, though he still has problems getting to another gear after his cuts.

Moss played well, it's now obvious that Campbell throws the ball way to hard for him. Moss catches everything in sight from Collins and even Brunell when he played last year.

[shally]

So you know the player's mind through their nonstatements? All I am saying is I don't buy the whole "chemistry" argument. I think that is poppycock

(and seriously who says poppy cock nowadays :) )



they have been supportive of TC, as they have been supportive of JC. that is not the issue. they will support whomever is named the starting qb

i never said it was a chemistry issue, you brought that up. i am saying you are what your record says you are. under JC we were 5-7 and had a 4 game losing streak. under TC we are 3-0. draw your own conclusions; and that seems to be that TC had little to do with it.

it is clearly not about 1 man. but the offense has been productive enough to beat 3 teams, 2 of which were fighting for playoffs.. and to beat them away.
the offensive line is the same group. the runners are the same group.
the defense is the same minus rocky. the receivers are the same group, although they are healthier now, admittedly.

we may not beat dallas, in which case the argument becomes moot. we may not beat seattle, but that might happen either way.

what i am saying is that TC gives us the best chance to beat both dallas and seattle because JC is injured and will not be close to 100% for either game.
and if JC is not 100 % then a healthy TC gives us a much better chance in both of them.. how do i know he wont be 100 % ? because NOBODY fully recovers from the type of injury that JC had over that length of time.

and if you dont like poppycock, how about rubbish. ?..lol.. just trying to stay on the right side of spence and H2S... no offense taken D

[guess88]

Moss played well, it's now obvious that Campbell throws the ball way to hard for him. Moss catches everything in sight from Collins and even Brunell when he played last year.

I think it's more that Moss is finally healthy now, and that TC places the ball better. I love JC and all, but he often throws a bit in front or behind the receivers which usually results in either a dropped ball, or the receiver losing his stride and a loss of potential YAC. It's pretty much just a timing issue which he should get better with during the offseason (don't they say it takes 3 years min. to get comfy with Al Saunders system?) You can see the comfort in TC, and while JC has more talent in his fingertips, TC definitely has a better grasp of the system. He manages the game well, and gets the throws where they need to be. He's not a fancy player, and not the least bit a playmaker, but he makes good decisions and keeps drives alive. If we make the playoffs, he should stay in, regardless if JC is healthy or not..(which he won't be anyway).

BTW - Hell of a game by Portis today... against the #1 rushing D as well! Who would've thought we'd be that proficient after how we struggled the 1st half of the season? He's playing with a lot of heart, and I think the Oline has finally gotten comfortable with each other. Big ups to LoZander, and Heyer... hope to see them in the BG for a long time.

[guess88]

how do i know he wont be 100 % ? because NOBODY fully recovers from the type of injury that JC had over that length of time.

2 words....

LAZARUS PIT

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

what i am saying is that TC gives us the best chance to beat both dallas and seattle because JC is injured and will not be close to 100% for either game.
and if JC is not 100 % then a healthy TC gives us a much better chance in both of them.. how do i know he wont be 100 % ? because NOBODY fully recovers from the type of injury that JC had over that length of time.


I completely agree. Campbell has FAR more talent than Collins, but I really cannot think of a semi-injured and rusty Campbell coming in in the heat of the playoffs. Manager or not, Collins has done a fine, fine job, and I would stick to him for the rest of the season, whatever that may be.

[akhhorus]

jesus, we smash a team we're supposed to lose to, and you STILL can't help but criticize all our primary contributors. pathetic.

We didn't smash the Vikes. We beat them in the first half, then almost gave the game away again because we were playing the same soft defense and a terrible Qb was able to carve us up. If you're happy with the same inconsistent style of this team, then I don't know what to tell you.

and another thing - that vikings team had won 5 straight. that is tough to do against ANY five opponents in today's NFL. i think you are mistakaken to trivialize them. this was a GOOD team and we BEAT them handily. thatg says something.

I trivialized their pass defense. Nothing else. Please read my column before you open your mouth.

And I don't think the Vikes were a good team before last night. They looked awful against the Bears last week.

Seriously, AKH, you talk a great game and you can put your words well on paper. But, did you ever play the game? I really don't think you played...at any level. You rant too much and it has become very boring for alot of us hardcore fans. Especially those of us who have played the game at a higher level than you ever did.

:rolleyes: Thanks Al Bundy.

im tired of the cover 2 in the second half i dont want to see it the rest of the year!

This is the ultimate nonsense about Williams(Williams' nonsense, not yours). He plays aggressive in the first half, then goes into the prevent Cover-2 and it NEVER WORKS. Is Williams' functionally retarded or something?

I agree with most of your article accept for starting Campbell. IMO we would mess up the chemistry that we have right, and the offense has moved better with Collins.

The offense is moving because Moss gives a crap with Collins on the field and Portis is the primary offense. I don't buy that he's suddenly healthy and producing. Moss just looks disinterested when Campbell is out there.

I give way more credit to CP and the defense (and giant's miscues) then TC. Don't get me wrong, he was serviceable, but IMO we stand a better chance to win with JC then TC.

I think you overestimate the bears, Giants, and vikings D, espescially against the pass.

The Bears (24) & Vikings (32) are two of the more pathetic pass defensive teams, and falling. The Giants are #8 and Collins went 8 for 26 (but i will give him credit for the wind and of course getting the win).

Sorry I just dont see some of those completions coming against Seattle in the playoffs. I alos like the added dimension of JC running that will get a few first downs a game.

I will support TC ast the starting QB because he wears the B&G,m but IMO JC gives us a better chance to win.

Agree 100%. And as I've said a few times, it helps when you put the ball in the hands of the best offensive player(Portis) more than you did previously.

[WackyJacky]

:rolleyes: Thanks Al Bundy.


LMAO!!! The perfect riposte! http://foolstown.com/sm/duel.gif

[cal_junior]

Akh: Is your journalism/football background anywhere on the site? I mean, you're not just a fan watching the games at home on TV are you?
I know this sounds contentious but it's really not. I honestly just want a frame of reference if I'm going to read your analysis.

[dj_stouty]

Akh: Is your journalism/football background anywhere on the site? I mean, you're not just a fan watching the games at home on TV are you?
I know this sounds contentious but it's really not. I honestly just want a frame of reference if I'm going to read your analysis.

Hint: Akh is Al Saunders. (hence all the negativity towards GW) ;)

[FunBunch5]

The offense is moving because Moss gives a crap with Collins on the field and Portis is the primary offense. I don't buy that he's suddenly healthy and producing. Moss just looks disinterested when Campbell is out there.



I believe Moss gives a crap, but he was really injured, which was effecting his play more then the fans realized. Additionally, I think Moss is more effective with Collins because the ball is actually thrown to him and not way over his head, or behind him.

[cal_junior]

Hint: Akh is Al Saunders. (hence all the negativity towards GW) ;)

So the answer is no? Being a mod I'm guessing you would probably know if a bio existed.

[Skinsfan1311]

Good read, but a real downer.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.....I'm no blind homer but,sometimes, you just have to throw that stuff out the window and go with the flow.

Enjoy the ride........

[csquared]

Seriously, AKH, you talk a great game and you can put your words well on paper. But, did you ever play the game? I really don't think you played...at any level. You rant too much and it has become very boring for alot of us hardcore fans. Especially those of us who have played the game at a higher level than you ever did.

Well when you start doing write ups we will be sure to read them. Since you played pop warner and all. Im sure it makes you know more about football than us that never played. :rolleyes:

[akhhorus]

Hint: Akh is Al Saunders. (hence all the negativity towards GW) ;)

No, I'm Lavar lmao. Thats why I "hate" Gibbs, Snyder and Williams.

I believe Moss gives a crap, but he was really injured, which was effecting his play more then the fans realized. Additionally, I think Moss is more effective with Collins because the ball is actually thrown to him and not way over his head, or behind him.

And go back to the Green Bay game when Moss couldn't catch a hooker in a whorehouse. Part of the problem is a lack of chemistry between Moss and Campbell, but most of this is on Moss. He likes Brunell/Collins because they short arm deep balls and he can adjust to them. Campbell throws it to him trying to hit him in stride. I love Moss and hope he can get on the same page with Campbell, but I'm beginning to think that there's something personal going on(thats just a hunch).

Good read, but a real downer.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.....I'm no blind homer but,sometimes, you just have to throw that stuff out the window and go with the flow.

Enjoy the ride........

Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy we won, but we have to be honest about the fundamental problems this team still has. I don't care if I'm the only one saying it as we go into the playoffs. This team is winning on sheer heart, and not because of the coaches.

[akhhorus]

Well when you start doing write ups we will be sure to read them. Since you played pop warner and all. Im sure it makes you know more about football than us that never played. :rolleyes:

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Images/AlBundy4.jpg

I played a little high school football. Scored 5 TDs in one game. Thats why I know more than you

[csquared]

And just for the record....... Boy do i look good about winning our little bet Mr. AKH. :lol1:

[akhhorus]

And just for the record....... Boy do i look good about winning our little bet Mr. AKH. :lol1:

Bite me lmao. Please PM me your booze request.

[csquared]

Polk High's Finest!!!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely happy we won, but we have to be honest about the fundamental problems this team still has. I don't care if I'm the only one saying it as we go into the playoffs. This team is winning on sheer heart, and not because of the coaches.
This is the key issue IMO. The goal, for many people, seems to be "making the playoffs", period. That should not be the goal. The goal should be winning the Super Bowl. Of at least being able to contend. I don't think we have proved to be capable of that (neither now or anytime in the past 4 seasons). That is why I think it is a good thing to be constructively critical even after a big win like yesterday. It doesn't mean you enjoy the win less. It means that you would want the Skins to be even better.

[lorimike]

It was a great win and insures that we are playing meaningfull football next week. A win and we are in! Couple game thoughts and observations

1. What the heck was Childress crying about with Gibbs' challenge? Can there be a less disputable challenge than 12 men on the field? Was he pleading for some sort of professional courtesy or somethin? Fact of the matter is that teams could do a quick snap like that several times a game and catch a 12th man loafing his way to the sideline.

2. Is Stephon Heyer for real? Not that I focused in on his play but I certainly did not hear his name called. The lone sack was a blitz up the middle not picked up and Kevin Williams overpowered Fabini on a running play. I saw Todd Wade in uniform trotting off the field after the game so he must have been healthy. Has Heyer just played his way into the starting lineup. Have we found the 2nd coming of Joe Jacoby in Stephon Heyer?

3. Reche Calldwell had 4 catches once again proving that you don't need to sign mid level receivers to 10 million dollar signing bonuses.

4. Todd Collins is playing great. I think he's the reason we've won 3 straight.

[akhhorus]

It was a great win and insures that we are playing meaningfull football next week. A win and we are in! Couple game thoughts and observations

1. What the heck was Childress crying about with Gibbs' challenge? Can there be a less disputable challenge than 12 men on the field? Was he pleading for some sort of professional courtesy or somethin? Fact of the matter is that teams could do a quick snap like that several times a game and catch a 12th man loafing his way to the sideline.

What Childress' complaint was that the Skins subbed players, so they have to wait and allow the Vikes to sub players.



4. Todd Collins is playing great. I think he's the reason we've won 3 straight.

I think its almost all on your buddy Portis. They've finally decided to make him the offense and he's responded.

[akhhorus]

This is the key issue IMO. The goal, for many people, seems to be "making the playoffs", period. That should not be the goal. The goal should be winning the Super Bowl. Of at least being able to contend. I don't think we have proved to be capable of that (neither now or anytime in the past 4 seasons). That is why I think it is a good thing to be constructively critical even after a big win like yesterday. It doesn't mean you enjoy the win less. It means that you would want the Skins to be even better.

And what makes it more frustrating is that even with the tragedy and the injuries, they still have the pieces to beat anyone in the NFC. And its not execution that has kept us from being a contender in the NFC, its the coaches, who are coaching not to lose and not coaching to win.

[cal_junior]

The goal, for many people, seems to be "making the playoffs", period. That should not be the goal. The goal should be winning the Super Bowl.

I can't speak for others, but my goal is to make the playoffs every year exactly because I think that means you have a shot to get to the Super Bowl. For me the two go hand-in-hand.

Have the Skins played as well as they could throughout the season? Of course not.
But if they beat Dallas Sunday do I think we have a shot of beating Seattle/Tampa Bay followed by Dallas and Green Bay? Absolutely. None of those teams should scare the Skins.

The margin of error is so small in the NFL that saying your goal every year is to make the playoffs is basically like saying your goal is to make/win the Super Bowl.

A good example would be the sixth-seeded 2005 Steelers

[openallnight]

CB Shawn Springs 7.25. Good INT, but bad zone coverage.


Springs played lights out last night. Didn't see a single pass completed in Springs area.

[Hr fan]

So you know the player's mind through their nonstatements? All I am saying is I don't buy the whole "chemistry" argument. I think that is poppycock

(and seriously who says poppy cock nowadays :) )

People with sweet teeth, see your local grocer's shelves. I agree with Shally. When it ain't broke don't fix it. Confidence keeps teams in games. The results say TC gives the team confidence (could have broken when the TD call was overruled, and a TD after the 12 man call). If available use TC throughout instead of a gimpy JC.

[lorimike]

What Childress' complaint was that the Skins subbed players, so they have to wait and allow the Vikes to sub players.>>
I don't have the rule book handy but I'm sure the spirit of rule does not provide for a loafing DT to take his time leaving the field- under that line of thinking I would put the offense in jeapardy of a delay of game.



I think its almost all on your buddy Portis. They've finally decided to make him the offense and he's responded.<<<

Clinton did have a good game and while not a spectacular season he has had a solid season. But Collins was 22-29 w/ 2TDs and 254 yards.- that's a good game for anyone. This wasn't a buch of schleps we were playing. The Vikes had won 5 straight. The Vikes Dline is very good in the pass rush as well. Collins manages the game better than I would have ever thought. Jason can learn some things by watching right now.

[Battle Cat]

The offense is moving because Moss gives a crap with Collins on the field and Portis is the primary offense. I don't buy that he's suddenly healthy and producing. Moss just looks disinterested when Campbell is out there.

Moss is playing better under Collins because like Mark B. he puts air under the ball and lets Santana Moss adjust. Campbell, and I am the biggest Campbell fan on the site, throws a harder ball with a lower tragectary. Collins and Mark B. do the same thing that qbs do to Randy Moss and T. Owens. Those passes that Tom Brady throws into double or triple coverage where he basicly throws it as high and far as he can and R. Moss makes the play and goes and gets it (but T. Brady gets all of the credit for a great pass for some reason) is the same thing that Collins does. If Santana is 1 on 1 with a defender even though he is short the best thing to do is throw it far and high and let him adjust instead of trying to hit him in stride like Campbell does. Collins also hits crossing patterns in stride that allow for run after the catch, Campbell really needs to work on this aspect. Campbell is like a young pool player or pitcher that thinks he has to hit every shot hard or throw every pitch 99 mph and when they learn touch and finesse they are 100 times better. Also doesn't hurt that ARE and Moss actually practice now that Collins is qb but that is another story. Collins starts with one drive a half for Campbell for the rest of this year and Campbell to start next year.

[FunBunch5]

And go back to the Green Bay game when Moss couldn't catch a hooker in a whorehouse. Part of the problem is a lack of chemistry between Moss and Campbell, but most of this is on Moss. He likes Brunell/Collins because they short arm deep balls and he can adjust to them. Campbell throws it to him trying to hit him in stride. I love Moss and hope he can get on the same page with Campbell, but I'm beginning to think that there's something personal going on(thats just a hunch).





Yeah Moss did single handedly lose that game for us. Cambell was hitting him in the hands and he was dropping them.

However, that goes to my point of replacing Collins in a playoff game if Campbell is healthy. Let Moss and Campbell work out their chemistry issues in the offseason, but in the playoffs we need to stick with the guy that is on the same page with our top receiver.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I can't speak for others, but my goal is to make the playoffs every year exactly because I think that means you have a shot to get to the Super Bowl. For me the two go hand-in-hand.

Have the Skins played as well as they could throughout the season? Of course not.
But if they beat Dallas Sunday do I think we have a shot of beating Seattle/Tampa Bay followed by Dallas and Green Bay? Absolutely. None of those teams should scare the Skins.

The margin of error is so small in the NFL that saying your goal every year is to make the playoffs is basically like saying your goal is to make/win the Super Bowl.

A good example would be the sixth-seeded 2005 Steelers
I disagree. It's true that if you don't make the playoffs, you have no shot at the SB (obviously), but it's also true IMO that not every team that makes it does have a shot. I think we have to vastly improve if we're gonna have a shot at the championship. And I thought so in 2005 as well. My main point is that if you criticize the team after a win it doesn't necessarily mean you don't want them to win, or are a Cowboys fan, or anything like that. You want them to improve to the point where we can be considered contenders. That hasn't happened in quite a while unfortunately.

[Dolla Bill]

Akh, great write up, but I do disagree in the assessment of the Vikings. They were a hot team, and we traveled to their house and shut them down the 1st half. I agree they adjusted well from the middle of the 3rd-on. I thought the OL deserve alot of credit for a good hard earned victory. They took on 2 Pro Bowl Tackles and ran right through them in the 2nd half. Collins is also due some good praise. He made good reads, and did not position themselves to loose the game. (Except for the 2 fumbles. He needs to be following Rabach around all week.)

There is one small thing I want to comment on. Has anyone seen Betts run the ball lately? He's running mad to the hole. I think he knows he might be trade bait in the offseason, and he's auditioning. The couple of runs he had last night were good runs. Even dating back to last week against NY, he ran possessed.

[hessy36]

jesus, we smash a team we're supposed to lose to, and you STILL can't help but criticize all our primary contributors. pathetic.

I agree, totally pathetic...

Thank you TOD COLLINS - AGAIN! Finally we have a QB that gets the job done! .. Merry Christmas!!

[FunBunch5]

It was a great win and insures that we are playing meaningfull football next week. A win and we are in! Couple game thoughts and observations

1. What the heck was Childress crying about with Gibbs' challenge? Can there be a less disputable challenge than 12 men on the field? Was he pleading for some sort of professional courtesy or somethin? Fact of the matter is that teams could do a quick snap like that several times a game and catch a 12th man loafing his way to the sideline.

2. Is Stephon Heyer for real? Not that I focused in on his play but I certainly did not hear his name called. The lone sack was a blitz up the middle not picked up and Kevin Williams overpowered Fabini on a running play. I saw Todd Wade in uniform trotting off the field after the game so he must have been healthy. Has Heyer just played his way into the starting lineup. Have we found the 2nd coming of Joe Jacoby in Stephon Heyer?

3. Reche Calldwell had 4 catches once again proving that you don't need to sign mid level receivers to 10 million dollar signing bonuses.

4. Todd Collins is playing great. I think he's the reason we've won 3 straight.

He was complaining that his team didn't get to sub in a player. However, as my Viking friend even said so what. A penalty would be called on the Vikings for 12 men and a penalty called on the Redskins for not allowing them to sub, offsetting penalties replay the down. All it would have done was save the Vikings 5 yards, but the Skins would have still had the football.

[cal_junior]

You want them to improve to the point where we can be considered contenders.

What would be the last year you thought that was the case?

[lorimike]

He was complaining that his team didn't get to sub in a player. However, as my Viking friend even said so what. A penalty would be called on the Vikings for 12 men and a penalty called on the Redskins for not allowing them to sub, offsetting penalties replay the down. All it would have done was save the Vikings 5 yards, but the Skins would have still had the football.>>>>

Chestnuts roasting on an open fire, mamosa at my side, and arguing the finer points of last nights game- does it get any better than that?

If you're running a hurry up offense I can't see how there is anything in the rule book stating that you have to provide time for another team to sub just 'cause we subbed. A provision like that in the rulebook would mean the offense could lose valuable seconds. And furthermore the problem was not a sub the problem was the player coming out did not hustle off the field.

[frankez99]

Man, some of you are just too critical of a team that has won 3 straight after a season of extreme turmoil.

Every other team, and I mean EVERY, would had folded after what has happened to us.....yet we are finding faults after a 32 point performance on the road in an elimination game.

Sure it wasn't perfect.....but c'mon.

And if you want to hate on TC, go ahead....but you are simply hating. The man is getting it done, period. And that comment about "not wanting to see him floating passes in Seattle"....comical.....3 weeks ago you wouldn't had DREAMED about that playoff scenario. If you don't want to see him floating passes in Seattle (if we get there, of course), then don't watch. It shouldn't hurt your feelings to admit that TC is playing at a professional level right now that is good enough, wait.....better, than Jason Campbell at this stage. See how easy that is?

Get into the holiday spirit and try something different, you know......like feeling good about a Redskin team that is on the cusp of the playoffs. Although I won't be able to watch the playoffs due to being out of the country very soon, it sure would be one hell of a send off for me. Hail to the Redskins and to the members of hR.com.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

What would be the last year you thought that was the case?
Honestly? Probably 1992. I couldn't bring myself to really believe in this team during the Turner years (the one year we did make the playoffs), and all the rest of the pre-Gibbs stuff was an absolute horror-fest.
I know it sounds kinda harsh, but it is what it is...

[Biggie]

What would be the last year you thought that was the case?
The presidency of George Bush the Elder.

Thank you TOD COLLINS - AGAIN! Finally we have a QB that gets the job done! .. Merry Christmas!!
I have a hunch: You hate Jason Campbell so much because Patrick Ramsey is your brother/neighbor/daughter's ex-boyfriend.

[akhhorus]

Springs played lights out last night. Didn't see a single pass completed in Springs area.

Then you were in the bathroom for a lot of plays. He had at least 4-6 passes completed at him.

Moss is playing better under Collins because like Mark B. he puts air under the ball and lets Santana Moss adjust. Campbell, and I am the biggest Campbell fan on the site, throws a harder ball with a lower tragectary. Collins and Mark B. do the same thing that qbs do to Randy Moss and T. Owens. Those passes that Tom Brady throws into double or triple coverage where he basicly throws it as high and far as he can and R. Moss makes the play and goes and gets it (but T. Brady gets all of the credit for a great pass for some reason) is the same thing that Collins does. If Santana is 1 on 1 with a defender even though he is short the best thing to do is throw it far and high and let him adjust instead of trying to hit him in stride like Campbell does. Collins also hits crossing patterns in stride that allow for run after the catch, Campbell really needs to work on this aspect. Campbell is like a young pool player or pitcher that thinks he has to hit every shot hard or throw every pitch 99 mph and when they learn touch and finesse they are 100 times better. Also doesn't hurt that ARE and Moss actually practice now that Collins is qb but that is another story. Collins starts with one drive a half for Campbell for the rest of this year and Campbell to start next year.

But even when Campbell has thrown him the floaters(the 2nd Eagles game being a good example of that), Moss isn't in position or drops it. If Moss needs washed up short armed QB to be successful, he can find that with another team.

I agree, totally pathetic...

The only pathetic thing is your hard-on for Campbell.

Man, some of you are just too critical of a team that has won 3 straight after a season of extreme turmoil.

Every other team, and I mean EVERY, would had folded after what has happened to us.....yet we are finding faults after a 32 point performance on the road in an elimination game.

Sure it wasn't perfect.....but c'mon.

And if you want to hate on TC, go ahead....but you are simply hating. The man is getting it done, period. And that comment about "not wanting to see him floating passes in Seattle"....comical.....3 weeks ago you wouldn't had DREAMED about that playoff scenario. If you don't want to see him floating passes in Seattle (if we get there, of course), then don't watch. It shouldn't hurt your feelings to admit that TC is playing at a professional level right now that is good enough, wait.....better, that Jason Campbell. See how easy that is?

Get into the holiday spirit and try something different, you know......like feeling good about a Redskin team that is on the cusp of the playoffs. Although I won't be able to watch the playoffs due to being out of the country very soon, it sure would be one hell of a send off for me. Hail to the Redskins and to the members of hR.com.

I repeat my post #48 to you. I'm sorry if I'm not the required jolly you want me to be, but I'm honest about the team. The day I stop being honest is the day I stop posting.

[akhhorus]

Honestly? Probably 1992. I couldn't bring myself to really believe in this team during the Turner years (the one year we did make the playoffs), and all the rest of the pre-Gibbs stuff was an absolute horror-fest.
I know it sounds kinda harsh, but it is what it is...

Even in 1999, we were half a team at best.

[cal_junior]

Honestly? Probably 1992.

I'd agree with that. And I also think the Skins are a favorite to win the NFC next season with even a little bit of injury luck and one or two minor additions.

[akhhorus]

I'd agree with that. And I also think the Skins are a favorite to win the NFC next season with even a little bit of injury luck and one or two minor additions.

Unless we add 3-4 premier defenders and a real threat at WR, I don't think anyone could logically say that we would be the favorites in the NFC East, much less the NFC.

[VegasSkinsFan]

And what makes it more frustrating is that even with the tragedy and the injuries, they still have the pieces to beat anyone in the NFC. And its not execution that has kept us from being a contender in the NFC, its the coaches, who are coaching not to lose and not coaching to win.

AMEN.....the post of the season. The Cover2 needs to go. We are still missing the killer instinct, but despite the season from hell, we are 1 win from the playoffs...amazing. Yesterday was a great win....we beat a hot team ( not a great team ) , who was 1 win from the playoffs on their home turf. I am seeing some of our young players play with a lot of heart, not saying they are playing great, but with heart and effort......landry, lo, heyer, doughty, even torrence.....ps.. that PI call on torrence was a bad call i thought, but landry laid out TJ on the play. I will say this one more time, a smart offseason which includes free agency, good draft/scouting, and determined practice ( we aint talkin' 'bout the game, we're talkin' 'bout practice,practice haha ), and this team could be a serious contender but only if like Ahk says, and we fix the fundamental flaws like clock management, lack of aggressiveness at times etc. GO SKINS !!!!!!!!!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I'd agree with that. And I also think the Skins are a favorite to win the NFC next season with even a little bit of injury luck and one or two minor additions.

With improved coaching (either from outside or from the guys we have), with a good draft and smart free-agent signings, and with no catastrophic injuries, we would have the personnel to achieve that. That's why it bothers me even more that we have to sit here and pray for the #6 seed at best every year.

[FunBunch5]

The presidency of George Bush the Elder.


I have a hunch: You hate Jason Campbell so much because Patrick Ramsey is your brother/neighbor/daughter's ex-boyfriend.

Support for Todd Collins playing well doesn't mean people don't like Jason Campbell. A lot of people are noticing how nicely the offense is moving under Todd. The only prefrence to QB any of us should have is to the one that wins the Redskins football games.

[frankez99]

I repeat my post #48 to you. I'm sorry if I'm not the required jolly you want me to be, but I'm honest about the team. The day I stop being honest is the day I stop posting.

Actually I appreciate your honesty and candor....always have....but our opinions differ at this moment.

I fail to see the doom and gloom at this point. Is it perfect....heck no....is it inspiring....heck yes.

But guess what, there are 32 teams with flaws. We just may be one of those 32 in the playoffs....a thought that was UNFATHOMABLE a few weeks ago.

Take care.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Actually I appreciate your honesty and candor....always have....but our opinions differ at this moment.

I fail to see the doom and gloom at this point. Is it perfect....heck no....is it inspiring....heck yes.

But guess what, there are 32 teams with flaws. We just may be one of those 32 in the playoffs....a thought that was UNFATHOMABLE a few weeks ago.

Take care.
31 teams.

[akhhorus]

Support for Todd Collins playing well doesn't mean people don't like Jason Campbell. A lot of people are noticing how nicely the offense is moving under Todd. The only prefrence to QB any of us should have is to the one that wins the Redskins football games.

The difference being Hessy does not like Campbell. We could have Jabba the Hut out there at QB and she would be happy.

Actually I appreciate your honesty and candor....always have....but our opinions differ at this moment.

I fail to see the doom and gloom at this point. Is it perfect....heck no....is it inspiring....heck yes.

But guess what, there are 32 teams with flaws. We just may be one of those 32 in the playoffs....a thought that was UNFATHOMABLE a few weeks ago.

Take care.

But thats the thing. With the personnel on this team, even despite Taylor and the injuries, we shouldn't have to be clawing for a #6 spot. We should be in the hunt for the NFC east title.

[Biggie]

Support for Todd Collins playing well doesn't mean people don't like Jason Campbell. A lot of people are noticing how nicely the offense is moving under Todd. The only prefrence to QB any of us should have is to the one that wins the Redskins football games.
I'm sorry, but the whole "We finally have a QB who gets things done!" deal doesn't sound like support for Campbell to me. He's the quarterback of the future, and I'm not going to throw him under the bus for a 36-year-old journeyman, no matter how many bad pass defenses he has decent games against.

[hail2skins]

and another thing - that vikings team had won 5 straight. that is tough to do against ANY five opponents in today's NFL. i think you are mistakaken to trivialize them. this was a GOOD team and we BEAT them handily. thatg says something.They won 5 straight on a running game that was successful. When teams stopped their running game, they couldn't win because their passing offense isn't there. A good team can do both, they cannot.

[Hr fan]

This is the key issue IMO. The goal, for many people, seems to be "making the playoffs", period. That should not be the goal. The goal should be winning the Super Bowl. Of at least being able to contend. I don't think we have proved to be capable of that (neither now or anytime in the past 4 seasons). That is why I think it is a good thing to be constructively critical even after a big win like yesterday. It doesn't mean you enjoy the win less. It means that you would want the Skins to be even better.

Agree with you and Akh. One year 5-11, then 10-6, then 6-10, then ... This is a team that closed the deal last night, a rarity. Inconsistency is not the mark of a good team. Having heart is. We have heart but so do a lot of teams. We are inconsistent to a fault. Lose at home to teams we should beaten handily then reel off two road wins against teams that should have beaten us. We are not as good as our optimists think, nor are we as bad as the pessimists think. We are inconsistent and ageing rapidly. Our injuries/losses have come to older players (Jansen, Thomas) and tragically to our youth core (ST, Rocky, Rogers). This does not bode well for the future, and if laying the blame for inconsistency at the coaches' door is correct the problem may be insoluable without a complete makeover.

We should enjoy whilst we may - and ignore what has followed an up year during Gibbs II.

[Hr fan]

31 teams.

What was it, 54-7? LMAO!

[Syllable]

I'm sorry, but the whole "We finally have a QB who gets things done!" deal doesn't sound like support for Campbell to me. He's the quarterback of the future, and I'm not going to throw him under the bus for a 36-year-old journeyman, no matter how many bad pass defenses he has decent games against.

You can't help but see the production that Collins is making though. Collins isn't at any level a keeper at starting QB. But right now, he is managing the game more effectively, throwing less interceptions, and finishing drives. I would much rather see Collins in the Playoffs than JC. He may not be putting up off the charts numbers, but he is getting it done effectively.

[cal_junior]

That's why it bothers me even more that we have to sit here and pray for the #6 seed at best every year.

In my opinion that ended this season. I was looking for 12-4, 13-3 and Jansen/Thomas/Rogers/Taylor/Campbell changed that to 8-8, 9-7.

This year the No. 6 seed was the worst I was hoping for, not the best.

[akhhorus]

In my opinion that ended this season. I was looking for 12-4, 13-3 and Jansen/Thomas/Rogers/Taylor/Campbell changed that to 8-8, 9-7.

This year the No. 6 seed was the worst I was hoping for, not the best.

Except this team had the same issues even when the IR list was just Jansen/Thomas(and also when it was just Jansen).

[FunBunch5]

I'm sorry, but the whole "We finally have a QB who gets things done!" deal doesn't sound like support for Campbell to me. He's the quarterback of the future, and I'm not going to throw him under the bus for a 36-year-old journeyman, no matter how many bad pass defenses he has decent games against.

You could throw Elmer Fudd at QB and if the Wedskins are winning we would all be happy.

Future QB or not If Campbell isn't getting it done I wouldn't want him in there. We can't be sure that Cambell would have won us these last 3 games, so IMO we have to ride out the hot hand to where it takes us. Next year, I completely agree with you that we don't start the journeyman, but go with our QB of the future.

[culpeper]

You can't help but see the production that Collins is making though. Collins isn't at any level a keeper at starting QB. But right now, he is managing the game more effectively, throwing less interceptions, and finishing drives. I would much rather see Collins in the Playoffs than JC. He may not be putting up off the charts numbers, but he is getting it done effectively.

JC is flat out NOT coming back to play this season...take that to the bank. so the arguement of who starts is irrelevant. but TC HAS been hitting the correct receiver and more importantly with perfect timing (and no turnovers). this whole offense is timing based. JC needs to shorten his windup and he will be fine. heck half the games this year we had to lean on campbell to pull us through. he was the ONLY person making plays. and we are seeing what kind of steps he needs to take in the offseason to get better now.

[cal_junior]

Except this team had the same issues even when the IR list was just Jansen/Thomas(and also when it was just Jansen).

I think 'just' is a poor choice of words there. Those were monumental loses. I'm convinced that if only one of them is injured the Skins start the year 7-1 or 6-2.
I think they beat the Giants and Packers with Thomas (or Jansen) in there and have less trouble with Arizona and the Jets.

[akhhorus]

I think 'just' is a poor choice of words there. Those were monumental loses. I'm convinced that if only one of them is injured the Skins start the year 7-1 or 6-2.
I think they beat the Giants and Packers with Thomas (or Jansen) in there and have less trouble with Arizona and the Jets.

I don't think that Thomas or Jansen would have smacked Williams with a torque wrench to get him to play the same defense in both halves of the Giants' game, nor do I think that Thomas or Jansen would have deiced Moss' hands in GB.

[hail2skins]

I agree, totally pathetic...

Thank you TOD COLLINS - AGAIN! Finally we have a QB that gets the job done! .. Merry Christmas!!I was wondering when you were going to enter this conversation.

Collins did manage the game yesterday, kudos to him. I give him credit for that. The long passes he completes I give him credit for having the intention of throwing it. I give more credit to the receiver for making the QB look good. Those are jump balls and are 50/50 the receiver will come down with it. It's a gamble and he's lucky he's on the plus side of it. It's the receiver making the play that has him on the plus side.

Folks, you can win and still have issues with your team. I think the point about why we didn't see this fire in September and October is a good one. Why does this team have to have it's back against the wall before it performs? Why can't they come out with that mentality all season long.

The issue of playing a soft defense is a good question as well. It also goes along with the shutting down of the offense with a lead. How many games have we blown losses because we sat back on defense and went conservative on offense?

If you don't agree with someone, that's fine but don't attack the personally. Attack their opinions. IF you don't like reading someone's thread who you don't agree with it, then don't read it when you see they are the author. You do have a choice in not reading it.

Also, just because someone didn't play football doesn't mean they don't understand the game and just because you did play doesn't mean you understand it fully either. None of us have played at the professional level, we're fans and we discuss what we see as fans.

We have relaxed this board a little bit but I'm going to remind everyone of the principles it was built on. It is a board where we don't attack people personally, we attack their opinions and we debate/argue the points. Bring your facts with you when you state them because they will be questioned.

There will be negative and positive comments regarding this team. Just because someone makes negative comments towards the team doesn't mean they're any less of a fan.

I'm also going to remind everyone about the language on the board. Refrain from using profanity because there are minors on the board.

Sorry I have to go offtopic but I had to get it out.

PS - Akh, I totally disagree with you on the Moss/Campbell issue. You have no basis for thinking it's something personal between them. As you normally point out to others, what facts do you have that support that basis?

[thenewposse]

collins tonight: 22/29 254 yards 2 td's 0 int's

i would bet the qb rating is over 100

giant defense is suspect ? viking defense was good enough for them to win 5 straight before tonight... bears ? maybe their offense is suspect, but their defense is just fine and they totally throttled green bay for the second time this year !!

what do you want from collins ? if JC had turned in a game with stats like that everybody would be crowing how solid he was

you dont want to see collins floating passes against seattle ?? i will take floating passes that hit the receivers in stride instead of being behind them or tipping off their hands, any day.. c'mon.. where is the hatred coming from ? when is the last time we had a 3 game winning streak under JC ?

now, i am NOT saying that there should be an open competition for starter next year.. no way ! this is JC's team next year. but this year ? if we beat dallas with collins as qb, there is ZERO question who should be the qb in the playoffs..this team simply has a better chance of winning right now with a healthy collins than with an injured campbell. he will not be ready this year.

I could not agree more, Collins has been outstanding throwing the football, he has hit the short, intermediate, and the deep routes. And Collins should absolutely start the playoff game if they make it. And Ak why so much negativity, sure we all would have liked to see them come together sooner, but sometimes it takes a while to hit your stride. As it is I would much rather have a hot team down the stretch than a team that peaked early. Yes the defense gave up some points in the second half, but it almost seems like you expect this defense to shut everyone down, they have done a great job of keeping us in football games, with the exceptions being the Patriots and Eagles game. I am just loving watching this team play football right now, and I hope everyone else does to. Is it just me or does no one in the NFC really scare you. I mean seriously we should have swept the Giants, dominated the Packers and Bucs yet found ways to lose and the Seahawks come on! Get excited! I cant wait to see how far Portis, Collins, and our no-name defense can carry us!

[hail2skins]

The only pathetic thing is your hard-on for Campbell.
These type of comments need to seize.

[cal_junior]

I don't think that Thomas or Jansen would have smacked Williams with a torque wrench to get him to play the same defense in both halves of the Giants' game, nor do I think that Thomas or Jansen would have deiced Moss' hands in GB.

Nor do I. But I think the Redskins would have had a lot more than 80 (against the Giants) and 90-some (Packers) yards rushing in those games with one of those two in there.

That would have changed those games dramatically, which were almost won anyway without a running game and with a newbie QB.

[cal_junior]

The issue of playing a soft defense is a good question as well. It also goes along with the shutting down of the offense with a lead. How many games have we blown losses because we sat back on defense and went conservative on offense?

Okay I'll bite: How is defense an issue when you completely stuff the league's top running team and force a team that doesn't want to throw to do just that?

You couldn't ask for a better defensive performance than the Skins gave last night.

The Vikes did get some passing yards in the second half, but you simply can't play the same defense when you're up or you're asking for a team to beat you with quick scores.

I seem to remember a Monday night a game in Dallas where Santana Moss proved that point quite well . . .

[csquared]

AKH what did i tell you about creating a second username and argue with yourself????? We know your Hessy36 in disguise.:lol1:

[cal_junior]

Also, just because someone didn't play football doesn't mean they don't understand the game and just because you did play doesn't mean you understand it fully either. None of us have played at the professional level, we're fans and we discuss what we see as fans.

I couldn't agree more. What might help though is giving us "outsiders" some idea of the credentials a 'Staff Writer' brings to the table. Why do a few people have different titles, something which tends to give more implied weight to their stances? Sort of like they have the hR stamp of approval.
I'm thinking this is setting the table for the "Who are you?" vs. "How dare you question me?"-type debates which you are noticing.

[hail2skins]

Okay I'll bite: How is defense an issue when you completely stuff the league's top running team and force a team that doesn't want to throw to do just that?

You couldn't ask for a better defensive performance than the Skins gave last night.

The Vikes did get some passing yards in the second half, but you simply can't play the same defense when you're up or you're asking for a team to beat you with quick scores.

I seem to remember a Monday night a game in Dallas where Santana Moss proved that point quite well . . .I take you didn't read my post and understand I wasn't just talking about 1 game. I specifically said losing leads and games in the second half because of the defense playing soft and the offense going conservative. Did we lose a lead last night; amost? Did we lose last night; no? I was talking about games where we did lose a lead and the game because of conservative offense and soft zones.

[Bluuz]

We didn't smash the Vikes. We beat them in the first half, then almost gave the game away again because we were playing the same soft defense and a terrible Qb was able to carve us up. If you're happy with the same inconsistent style of this team, then I don't know what to tell you.

The Skins spotted them the last TD and let the Vikes run the clock out on themselves, which they did. Better to let them have the 10 yard completions in the middle of the field than to stop them and go back on offense. If you have to punt, very bad things can happen. I agree though that the Skins were in a trouble with fumble after the dubious Moss catch. But then the 12 man on the field challenge. Hee, hee hee. Williams made a decision to play softer on D in the 2nd half to prevent big plays. I would have liked to see the Skins continue to snuff the Vikes, but then I won't second guess one of the better defensive minds in the game. And don't forget that the Vikes wanted to win as much as the Skins, and played much better in the 2nd half. Also, I don't agree that T Jackson is a bad QB. He made some great plays on the run and broke some tackles that should have been sacks.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I think this was your funniest contribution this year, Akh.

I was not thrilled with the D play calling in the second half either. I don't think they had to have 8 men in the box all second half like the first because the Vikes made good adjustments, but GW missed some opportunities in the second half where the down and distance was begging for 8 men in the box to stop a drive, and GW simply called the wrong defense. Overall the D was good though. The refs gave the Vikes the last 7 points with the phantom call on 4th down.

I like the way Collins is playing. Its strange, we all said the play calling would change with Collins in there, but what has happened is the running play book has been opened. The way the last two games have been called, Collins has been asked to do a lot less than what Campbell had been asked to do earlier this season.

OK, here is my question that I have been dwelling on today. Why does Portis get better as the year goes on? Its great that he does, but why can't our running game produce like this all year? Anyone think Portis should play more next preseason? I keep coming back to what Doc Walker said earlier this season that Portis is going to take a month of games to get up to game ready condition. Although we had early season success this year, I don't think we can afford that next year. We have to play with passion more than the first 5 games and the last 4 games in a season.

[hail2skins]

I couldn't agree more. What might help though is giving us "outsiders" some idea of the credentials a 'Staff Writer' brings to the table. Why do a few people have different titles, something which tends to give more implied weight to their stances? Sort of like they have the hR stamp of approval.
I'm thinking this is setting the table for the "Who are you?" vs. "How dare you question me?"-type debates which you are noticing.Let's see, how can I answer this. Lemme try this.

This is a site FOR THE FANS, run BY THE FANS. The credentials folks bring to the site are their FANDOM. They don't pretend to be professional analyzers of the game, they write their opinions and share them with other FANS.

As for his "Staff Writer" title, he used to write "FAN COLUMNS" for the site just like Spence "Quick Hitters", "Power Polls", PennSkinsFan "Youth Report", "Quick Hitters", CNYSkinFan "Playoff Rooting Card", "Vision Quest", Biggie "Biggie's Matchups". There are others as well. The title was given to him awhile back. The others are bloggers and we're invited by the Admins to provide content to the FANS.

I hope this answers your question.

[redwolf1218]

collins tonight: 22/29 254 yards 2 td's 0 int's

i would bet the qb rating is over 100

giant defense is suspect ? viking defense was good enough for them to win 5 straight before tonight... bears ? maybe their offense is suspect, but their defense is just fine and they totally throttled green bay for the second time this year !!

what do you want from collins ? if JC had turned in a game with stats like that everybody would be crowing how solid he was

you dont want to see collins floating passes against seattle ?? i will take floating passes that hit the receivers in stride instead of being behind them or tipping off their hands, any day.. c'mon.. where is the hatred coming from ? when is the last time we had a 3 game winning streak under JC ?

now, i am NOT saying that there should be an open competition for starter next year.. no way ! this is JC's team next year. but this year ? if we beat dallas with collins as qb, there is ZERO question who should be the qb in the playoffs..this team simply has a better chance of winning right now with a healthy collins than with an injured campbell. he will not be ready this year.

i agree, Collins looks good, and he deserves more credit. 22 for 29 is near perfect, when you factor in the times he had to throw it away. the fumbled snaps have to stop, but that's likely just a result of a lack of reps with Rabach.

[FunBunch5]

Okay I'll bite: How is defense an issue when you completely stuff the league's top running team and force a team that doesn't want to throw to do just that?

You couldn't ask for a better defensive performance than the Skins gave last night.

The Vikes did get some passing yards in the second half, but you simply can't play the same defense when you're up or you're asking for a team to beat you with quick scores.

I seem to remember a Monday night a game in Dallas where Santana Moss proved that point quite well . . .

We can't stop the pass because we have no pass rush. Sure we stopped the best run offense, but let the worst passing offense move the ball on us. We let Tamyra Jackson throw for 250 yards when he is averaging only 170 yards per game. If we can't get to the QB with our front 4 or stop the run we will never have a consistent defense. That is why when it counts we have not been able to hold teams.

Eagles Game - McNabb has all day and kills us deep, Westbrook scores go ahead touchdown on 70 yard screen and RAC.

Bills Game - No pass rush and a rookie QB drove down the field to set up the game winning touchdown. If I recall the drive started inside the twenty

First Giants Game - Ely had all day to throw and picked us apart and no name RB gets 5 ypc

Patriots Game - Brady had all day to throw

Cardinals Game - No pressure on a QB with a separated shoulder and they passed all day on us and nearly won the game but missed last second field goal

It doesn't matter how good the secondary is. The secondary can only hold for so long before they are going to give away the store. This defense will not be able to hold leads until we can get some consistent pressure on the QB. The Vikings were well on there way if it wasn't for a genious 12 men on the field challenge.

[cal_junior]

So could any FAN start a new thread each Monday with a several hundred word run-down on his or her thoughts on the latest game?

[hail2skins]

So could any FAN start a new thread each Monday with a several hundred word run-down on his or her thoughts on the latest game?Isn't that what folks do around here? Akh has done it every week and I think you've been here long enough to figure that out. As long as a topic doesn't exist, you can create a thread on that topic. I'm really not understanding the basis for these questions. Also, to prevent the thread from going offtopic, if you have further questions, please PM me.

[akhhorus]

PS - Akh, I totally disagree with you on the Moss/Campbell issue. You have no basis for thinking it's something personal between them. As you normally point out to others, what facts do you have that support that basis?

I have no facts to support my assertion of that, its totally a hunch. I have no knowledge of their relationship off the field, just Moss' apparent effort on the field when Campbell's in and when Collins/Brunell is in. And I don't believe the injuries excuse. Go back to the Miami game, when Moss is lazy in his routes and dropping balls for Campbell AND healthy. There's some problem between Campbell and Moss, I don't know for certain what it is, but the point is coming where the Skins will have to choose between them.

[akhhorus]

Isn't that what folks do around here? Akh has done it every week and I think you've been here long enough to figure that out. As long as a topic doesn't exist, you can create a thread on that topic. I'm really not understanding the basis for these questions. Also, to prevent the thread from going offtopic, if you have further questions, please PM me.

I also was the Assistant GM for the Jets for 2 seasons(The Dbrickshaw pick was over my obejctions), I had a hall of fame career in the Canadian football league as backup Moose handler and briefly replaced Dennis Miller in the MNF booth until my unfortunate comments about the Dutch.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

I also was the Assistant GM for the Jets for 2 seasons(The Dbrickshaw pick was over my obejctions), I had a hall of fame career in the Canadian football league as backup Moose handler and briefly replaced Dennis Miller in the MNF booth until my unfortunate comments about the Dutch.

I question the CFL comment. As a backup moose handler you would have had many "rouges" and I scoured the CFL records and your name went unmentioned. Good article BTW.

[akhhorus]

I question the CFL comment. As a backup moose handler you would have had many "rouges" and I scoured the CFL records and your name went unmentioned. Good article BTW.

I played under my maiden name lmao.

[csquared]

I also was the Assistant GM for the Jets for 2 seasons(The Dbrickshaw pick was over my obejctions), I had a hall of fame career in the Canadian football league as backup Moose handler and briefly replaced Dennis Miller in the MNF booth until my unfortunate comments about the Dutch.

AKH some people are mad at you for not drinking the Kool -Aid. Go ahead and atleast take a sip. LOL

[akhhorus]

Nor do I. But I think the Redskins would have had a lot more than 80 (against the Giants) and 90-some (Packers) yards rushing in those games with one of those two in there.

That would have changed those games dramatically, which were almost won anyway without a running game and with a newbie QB.

The newbie Qb and the lack of a running game has nothing to do with the one of the worst defensive halves turned in by a redskins' team in 5 years like they had in the 2nd half of the 1st Giants game. The lack of a running game and a newbie QB are irrelevant if the top WR dropped 5-7 sure passes AND fumbled the ball which was returned for the game winning TD.

[hail2skins]

I have no facts to support my assertion of that, its totally a hunch. I have no knowledge of their relationship off the field, just Moss' apparent effort on the field when Campbell's in and when Collins/Brunell is in. And I don't believe the injuries excuse. Go back to the Miami game, when Moss is lazy in his routes and dropping balls for Campbell AND healthy. There's some problem between Campbell and Moss, I don't know for certain what it is, but the point is coming where the Skins will have to choose between them.You don't buy the injury issue and everyone else does including me so we'll have to disagree. Also, you imply that Moss prefers having Collins throwing jump balls. Those are 50/50 gambles that the receiver will come down with it. Moss is exceptionally good at it but he and Collins both have to figure out patterns and throws where he is hit in stride for long catches. You can't survive on the 50/50 jump ball all season.

[csquared]

You don't buy the injury issue and everyone else does including me so we'll have to disagree. Also, you imply that Moss prefers having Collins throwing jump balls. Those are 50/50 gambles that the receiver will come down with it. Moss is exceptionally good at it but he and Collins both have to figure out patterns and throws where he is hit in stride for long catches. You can't survive on the 50/50 jump ball all season.

But why does Moss have trouble with Campbell. I really think he prefers the soft tosed balls. Moss and Brunell were leathal. Now Moss is flourishing with COllins.

[akhhorus]

You don't buy the injury issue and everyone else does including me so we'll have to disagree. Also, you imply that Moss prefers having Collins throwing jump balls. Those are 50/50 gambles that the receiver will come down with it. Moss is exceptionally good at it but he and Collins both have to figure out patterns and throws where he is hit in stride for long catches. You can't survive on the 50/50 jump ball all season.

I agree, which is why Campbell is a better Qb for Moss. He has the arm to throw a deep ball behind the defense and let Moss use his speed to get it. We've seen Moss and Campbell hook on on some pretty bombs(even last year), but Moss and Campbell struggle on the short and medium routes. He doesn't have this problem with any other WR or TE(especially ARE and Cooley, who seem to really thrive with Campbell), this makes me believe the problem is Moss and not the "kid QB". And at some point, a choice has to be made: Moss or Campbell. I don't think that a full offseason will bring them together in terms of chemistry. They've had that already with Campbell and Moss working out together(with Cooley and ARE).

[CNYSkinFan]

Okay I'll bite: How is defense an issue when you completely stuff the league's top running team and force a team that doesn't want to throw to do just that?

You couldn't ask for a better defensive performance than the Skins gave last night.

The Vikes did get some passing yards in the second half, but you simply can't play the same defense when you're up or you're asking for a team to beat you with quick scores.

I seem to remember a Monday night a game in Dallas where Santana Moss proved that point quite well . . .
so a defensive gameplan that was working for almost 3 quarters you abandon to go to the uncover 2 and immediately give up 21 points and you don't see anything wrong witht he defensive gameplan?

We were not facing brady pr manning, we were facing Tavaris Jackson with a 4 possession lead. You keep playing the defense that works until he makes you change. Don't go into soft zones and allow him to get in a rhythm and the crowd to get into the game.

[hail2skins]

But why does Moss have trouble with Campbell. I really think he prefers the soft tosed balls. Moss and Brunell were leathal. Now Moss is flourishing with COllins.Moss flourished with Brunell on the short pass (screens/slants). Of course there are the two bombs from the Dallas game. Jason hasn't built the confidence to throw the jump ball

[hail2skins]

I agree, which is why Campbell is a better Qb for Moss. He has the arm to throw a deep ball behind the defense and let Moss use his speed to get it. We've seen Moss and Campbell hook on on some pretty bombs(even last year), but Moss and Campbell struggle on the short and medium routes. He doesn't have this problem with any other WR or TE(especially ARE and Cooley, who seem to really thrive with Campbell), this makes me believe the problem is Moss and not the "kid QB". And at some point, a choice has to be made: Moss or Campbell. I don't think that a full offseason will bring them together in terms of chemistry. They've had that already with Campbell and Moss working out together(with Cooley and ARE).A lot of the passes El was catching from Campbell was him finding the soft spot of a zone defense and sitting in a whole. We wasn't on the run which is where I believe they should use him. Slants where he can get into open space. They seem to try to hit Moss on sidelines a lot and I believe he should be used in space as well. He was dangerous with the WR screen in 2005. I think Moss should get more of the quick routes too like slants and screens.

[akhhorus]

A lot of the passes El was catching from Campbell was him finding the soft spot of a zone defense and sitting in a whole. We wasn't on the run which is where I believe they should use him. Slants where he can get into open space. They seem to try to hit Moss on sidelines a lot and I believe he should be used in space as well. He was dangerous with the WR screen in 2005. I think Moss should get more of the quick routes too like slants and screens.

The problem being that they tried that a lot in the first half of the season, and Moss had the drops and was over running those routes.

[cal_junior]

The newbie Qb and the lack of a running game has nothing to do with the one of the worst defensive halves turned in by a redskins' team in 5 years like they had in the 2nd half of the 1st Giants game.

Oh, but that's where you're wrong.

Here are the Skins' first four offensive possessions during the second half of the 1st Giants game, a stretch spanning from the third quarter kickoff to 7:33 left in the fourth quarter:

Own 30 - three-and-out
Own 14 - three-and-out
Own 45 - three-and-out
Own 42- 1-yard run, Portis fumble on 2nd down

Any defense has to have some help, the Skins 'O' gave then nothing

[akhhorus]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong.

Here are the Skins' first four offensive possessions during the second half of the 1st Giants game, a stretch spanning from the third quarter kickoff to 7:33 left in the fourth quarter:

Own 30 - three-and-out
Own 14 - three-and-out
Own 45 - three-and-out
Own 42- 1-yard run, Portis fumble on 2nd down

Any defense has to have some help, the Skins 'O' gave then nothing

I must have missed it was the offense's fault on the Giants' drive to open the 2nd half of that game, when they went 4-4 on 3rd downs and scored easily. The defense went into their prevent defense, and the Giants made them pay. And let up 2 10+ play drives in the 3rd quarter. This despite the fact that they played aggressive for the first half and shut the Giants down, but why let facts stand in your way, eh?

[CNYSkinFan]

Oh, but that's where you're wrong.

Here are the Skins' first four offensive possessions during the second half of the 1st Giants game, a stretch spanning from the third quarter kickoff to 7:33 left in the fourth quarter:

Own 30 - three-and-out
Own 14 - three-and-out
Own 45 - three-and-out
Own 42- 1-yard run, Portis fumble on 2nd down

Any defense has to have some help, the Skins 'O' gave then nothing
except for the 21 points in the first half....also the defense gave up a long score on the opening drive of the Giants game coming out of halftime, you cant possibly put forth the argument the defense was tired coming out of halftime after the offense kept them off the field in the first half...are you?

Name me one game this season where going to the cover 2 did not immediately produce multiple scoring drives in the second half

[cal_junior]

so a defensive gameplan that was working for almost 3 quarters you abandon to go to the uncover 2 and immediately give up 21 points and you don't see anything wrong witht he defensive gameplan?


Since I'm assuming you watching the game I fail to how you could back this assersetion with facts.

We can agree that when you're up 32-14 with 5 minutes to play the game is over, yes? So allowing the Vikings to chew up three minutes of clock when they have to score three times is the correct defense to play. Agreed?

Okay, so we're talking about 14 points in a half.

On the Vikes 1st posession the Skins allowed them one 1st down then stuffed Peterson on 4th-and-1. Solid stand, I would say.

The Vikes second poessesion was their best of the game, going 67 yards and scoring to make it 25-7. Bad one for Skins defense

After getting back the onsides kick, the Skins 'D' is put in a hole, with the Viking starting at their 47. They force the Vikes into a three-and-out and a punt.

After the Thrash penalty the Skins 'D' is put in another hole, with the Vikes starting on on the Washington 49. Minny goes 49 yards, helped by a defense holding penalty on third down. Ultimately, a bad stand for.

The skins then go 75 yards to make it 32-14 - game over.

So two TD drives in a half - one which was less than 50 yards - and you're complaining about the defensive play-calling? Wow that's critical.

[cal_junior]

This despite the fact that they played aggressive for the first half and shut the Giants down, but why let facts stand in your way, eh?

I disagree completely. You'll recall the Skins 'D' was helped dramatically by A LOT of Giants drops in the first half that would have extended drives. The Skins didn't play as well as most people think in the first half of that game and they didn't play as in the second half, either.
I think the game simply evened out.

[cal_junior]

you cant possibly put forth the argument the defense was tired coming out of halftime after the offense kept them off the field in the first half...are you?

No, the Skins offense was simply awful - in the second half. They never let their 'D' stand on the sidelines and rest.

[CNYSkinFan]

Since I'm assuming you watching the game I fail to how you could back this assersetion with facts.

We can agree that when you're up 32-14 with 5 minutes to play the game is over, yes? So allowing the Vikings to chew up three minutes of clock when they have to score three times is the correct defense to play. Agreed?

Okay, so we're talking about 14 points in a half.

On the Vikes 1st posession the Skins allowed them one 1st down then stuffed Peterson on 4th-and-1. Solid stand, I would say.

The Vikes second poessesion was their best of the game, going 67 yards and scoring to make it 25-7. Bad one for Skins defense

After getting back the onsides kick, the Skins 'D' is put in a hole, with the Viking starting at their 47. They force the Vikes into a three-and-out and a punt.

After the Thrash penalty the Skins 'D' is put in another hole, with the Vikes starting on on the Washington 49. Minny goes 49 yards, helped by a defense holding penalty on third down. Ultimately, a bad stand for.

The skins then go 75 yards to make it 32-14 - game over.

So two TD drives in a half - one which was less than 50 yards - and you're complaining about the defensive play-calling? Wow that's critical.
those 14 points were in two consecutive sereies, and if it was not for a very lucky challenge by us, the Vikings would of had a chance to do it again. But fate intervened and we scored.

Since I am assuming YOU watch the game you have to admit that if Collins lost that ball there was absolutely nothing stopping the Vikings from marching right down the field and scoring again...

[CNYSkinFan]

No, the Skins offense was simply awful - in the second half. They never let their 'D' stand on the sidelines and rest.
and again...how can the offense be blamed for the first two drives of the second half the Giants scored on? One right after the half? Your making no sense here.

[akhhorus]

I disagree completely. You'll recall the Skins 'D' was helped dramatically by A LOT of Giants drops in the first half that would have extended drives. The Skins didn't play as well as most people think in the first half of that game and they didn't play as in the second half, either.
I think the game simply evened out.

That was in the 2nd game. The Giants didn't have such probs in the first.

[cal_junior]

and again...how can the offense be blamed for the first two drives of the second half the Giants scored on? One right after the half? Your making no sense here.

So the 'O' scores basically 7 points (the first TD was a 6-yard drive set up by Fletcher's fumble recovery and the FG came off a Fletcher pick) and they're off the hook?

The 'O' puts together one good drive in almost four quarters of football (I'll give them the one at the end of the game when they got stuffed) for the entire game and the loss is blamed on the 'D.'

That's hardly fair.

[oldskinfan]

... A penalty would be called on the Vikings for 12 men and a penalty called on the Redskins for not allowing them to sub, offsetting penalties replay the down. All it would have done was save the Vikings 5 yards, but the Skins would have still had the football.

Excellent point. The Vikes used up their mojo in the 1st quarter when Moss and Sellers calls were too close to overturn, IMHO...should have been TDs. Let's give credit where credit is due. The Redskins won a road game against a team that was favored by 6.5 points. You have to appreciate the effort the players put forth.

If they make it into the playoffs I think they have a shot at one win (like 2 years ago), but in my book they are champs given what happened this season. Besides, the Pats are going to go 19-0, as much as I hate to admit that.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

those 14 points were in two consecutive sereies, and if it was not for a very lucky challenge by us, the Vikings would of had a chance to do it again. But fate intervened and we scored.

Since I am assuming YOU watch the game you have to admit that if Collins lost that ball there was absolutely nothing stopping the Vikings from marching right down the field and scoring again...


I think you are wrong. The vikes scored, then recovered the onside kick, and we stopped them.

[cal_junior]

That was in the 2nd game. The Giants didn't have such probs in the first.

Go back and look if you want to. Burress dropped at least three balls in the first half that were in right his chest. I remember thinking at the time that I wish our offense could have done something more with all these TOs because Plexy was going to start hauling those balls in.

[akhhorus]

So the 'O' scores basically 7 points (the first TD was a 6-yard drive set up by Fletcher's fumble recovery and the FG came off a Fletcher pick) and they're off the hook?

The 'O' puts together one good drive in almost four quarters of football (I'll give them the one at the end of the game when they got stuffed) for the entire game and the loss is blamed on the 'D.'

That's hardly fair.

Oh please: Williams plays a cover-1 in the first half, then switches to a soft Cover-2, which the Giants' shred..and its the offense's fault?

Why do I have the feeling that if we were criticizing the offense, you would be making up these ridiculous defenses for the offense and blame the defense.

[cal_junior]

That was in the 2nd game. The Giants didn't have such probs in the first.

Here you go:

"Plaxico Burress, who had three drops and no catches in the first half, had five receptions for 86 yards in the second. The ankle injury that caused him to miss two practices last week didn't seem to affect him on the game-winning score -- a 33-yard catch-and-run in which he received the ball in the left flat and sidestepped Carlos Rogers before dashing to the end zone with 5:32 to play."

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20070923_NYG@WAS

[CNYSkinFan]

I think you are wrong. The vikes scored, then recovered the onside kick, and we stopped them.
your right i tried to put the onside kick out of my mind lol

[akhhorus]

Go back and look if you want to. Burress dropped at least three balls in the first half that were in right his chest. I remember thinking at the time that I wish our offense could have done something more with all these TOs because Plexy was going to start hauling those balls in.

Here you go:

"Plaxico Burress, who had three drops and no catches in the first half, had five receptions for 86 yards in the second. The ankle injury that caused him to miss two practices last week didn't seem to affect him on the game-winning score -- a 33-yard catch-and-run in which he received the ball in the left flat and sidestepped Carlos Rogers before dashing to the end zone with 5:32 to play."

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20070923_NYG@WAS

He had a big one when the Giants' were backed up, but to claim that this was the reason behind the skins' success in the first half of that game is ridiculous.

[lorimike]

Support for Todd Collins playing well doesn't mean people don't like Jason Campbell. A lot of people are noticing how nicely the offense is moving under Todd. The only prefrence to QB any of us should have is to the one that wins the Redskins football games.<<

I don't think there is any question that Jason Campbell is the future for us at QB but right now Collins playing well. Jason should feel compelled to come back at this point because I feel that right now Collins the better QB

[cal_junior]

Why do I have the feeling that if we were criticizing the offense, you would be making up these ridiculous defenses for the offense and blame the defense.

God, wasn't there just a message posted bu one of the owners about about this trolling kind of stuff?

Please stick to the discussion at hand and quit trying to make it personal.

[akhhorus]

God, wasn't there just a message posted bu one of the owners about about this trolling kind of stuff?

Please stick to the discussion at hand and quit trying to make it personal.

Hey, I call them like I see them. Its not personal, I'm commenting on what you're saying, so you can stop trying to play the victim. All you're doing is making excuses. For Gibbs, for Williams, and on and on and on. Your obvious bias is relevant to this thread.

[cal_junior]

Hey, I call them like I see them.

Then I will do the same. You are entirely unable to concede a single point, even when shown your facts are incorrect. Then, you add to that snide jabs at people which have nothing to do with the debate in question

What a wonderful way to represent the site.

[akhhorus]

Then I will do the same. You are entirely unable to concede a single point, even when shown your facts are incorrect.

When you show facts in an argument, I will concede. The only one you've gotten is that Plax had 3 drops. Doesn't prove that you're right about anything else.

Then, you add to that snide jabs at people which have nothing to do with the debate in question

No, your opinions on Gibbs/Williams/etc are relevant to this debate.


What a wonderful way to represent the site.

*yawn* thanks for giving up.

[CNYSkinFan]

Then I will do the same. You are entirely unable to concede a single point, even when shown your facts are incorrect. Then, you add to that snide jabs at people which have nothing to do with the debate in question

What a wonderful way to represent the site.
Oh get off the cross and use the wood for a bridge to get over it.

All Akh has said is you constantly defend the team against any accusation, how is that nort relevant. And the n you cry about post titles and other such things.

BTW I have not seen you concede a point on this site yet, so look inside the mirror my man.

[cal_junior]

YOU watch the game you have to admit that if Collins lost that ball there was absolutely nothing stopping the Vikings from marching right down the field and scoring again...

Just so we're clear: The Skins defense allows two TDs when the game was still in doubt, one of which came after bad special teams gave Minny the short field, and you're upset with the way they played?

[cal_junior]

All Akh has said is you constantly defend the team against any accusation, how is that nort relevant.

Please prove this, or it's trolling. I've defended the defense and Joe Gibbs in two recent debates, while ripping the offense. For him to say I would take the opposite side regardless has no basis in this current debate. .

[CNYSkinFan]

Just so we're clear: The Skins defense allows two TDs when the game was still in doubt, one of which came after bad special teams gave Minny the short field, and you're upset with the way they played?
I am upset that once again we switched form a scheme that was working (blitzing pressure, cover-1 etc) to the Cover 2 which allowed a crappy qb to run up and down the field, like we have done so many times this season.

I am not upset at the outcome but this particular tendency has cost us some games (First Giants, Second Philly, Buffalo, Dallas) and almost cost us others (AZ, Minny, NY Jets, MIami)

[CNYSkinFan]

Please prove this, or it's trolling. I've defended the defense and Joe Gibbs in two recent debates, while ripping the offense. For him to say I would take the opposite side regardless has no basis in this current debate. .
i would suggest sticking to the points of the debate and not whining...but hey that's me. And just so you know, I am not a moderator and any posts I make represent just me. This should be obvious from my debates with other moderators and staff writers (including Akh) but since you need it, there it is.

[guess88]

Besides, the Pats are going to go 19-0, as much as I hate to admit that.

I'm gambling that the Jags pull an upset.

[cal_junior]

Akh:

So where you stand is the that if the staff of our 10th-ranked defense would start coaching more like the staff of our 16th ranked offense we'd be a better team. That for the most part the defense has been our biggest problem?

[cal_junior]

i would suggest sticking to the points of the debate and not whining...but hey that's me. .

Believe me, I'm trying.

[akhhorus]

Please prove this, or it's trolling. I've defended the defense and Joe Gibbs in two recent debates, while ripping the offense. For him to say I would take the opposite side regardless has no basis in this current debate. .

I didn't say you take the "opposite side", I said you'll defend Gibbs/Williams no matter the facts. You're clearly done that. And if memory serves you had this same problem in the past, you lashed out at people who were disagreeing with in the past, and it drove you away. So, look in the mirror if you want to see what the problem is. I disagree and argue points with a lot of people here, but I never play the victim card like you do here. If you have nothing else, then just walk away. Trying to make me the issue is intellectually bankrupt.

[akhhorus]

Akh:

So where you stand is the that if the staff of our 10th-ranked defense would start coaching more like the staff of our 16th ranked offense we'd be a better team. That for the most part the defense has been our biggest problem?

We're 12th in Yards against, 13th in points: how exactly are we 10th in defense(we're also 24th in turnovers and tied for 18th in sacks)? Do you honestly think that the Redskins are the 12/13th best defense in the NFL? I wouldn't put them in the top 2/3 of the NFL defensively.

[MPCSkins]

We're 12th in Yards against, 13th in points: how exactly are we 10th in defense(we're also 24th in turnovers and tied for 18th in sacks)? Do you honestly think that the Redskins are the 12/13th best defense in the NFL? I wouldn't put them in the top 2/3 of the NFL defensively.

When they're not playing their soft cover 2 I would definitely put them in the top of the league, possibly top 10, but the problem is we play a little bit of good D and then get a lead and switch to the bend but not break type of D Williams wants. Unfortunately, it has broken many times this year and we got lucky it didn't break in the second half last night. Just lucky, cause it probably would have if not for that challenge.

[cal_junior]

We're 12th in Yards against, 13th in points: how exactly are we 10th in defense(we're also 24th in turnovers and tied for 18th in sacks)? Do you honestly think that the Redskins are the 12/13th best defense in the NFL? I wouldn't put them in the top 2/3 of the NFL defensively.

I admit, I may have been thinking about our ranking after 14 games. But if you look, we are are less than 2 yards from being ranked 9th in total defense.

It isn't as dramatic as past seasons when Gregg was completely carrying team, but I think the defense has done enough for us to be 12-win team.

The offense just hasn't gotten it done, a fact I attribute to a young QB and injuries to the O-Line and WRs.

[GibbsFan]

I am upset that once again we switched form a scheme that was working (blitzing pressure, cover-1 etc) to the Cover 2 which allowed a crappy qb to run up and down the field, like we have done so many times this season.

I am not upset at the outcome but this particular tendency has cost us some games (First Giants, Second Philly, Buffalo, Dallas) and almost cost us others (AZ, Minny, NY Jets, MIami)

Yup, GW is too soft in coverage and has been for most of the last 3 years. We should have stayed aggressive after their first score. I understand not letting them score too quickly approach, but c'mon how the heck do you think we built that lead. we forced those int's and we should stay on a young qb and try to force more.

overall very solid game by the d, and we are gonna be the team no one wants to play in 2 weeks.

[cal_junior]

Yup, GW is too soft in coverage and has been for most of the last 3 years. We should have stayed aggressive after their first score.

I guess I'm curious what the problem was last night. The defense gave up just the one long drive until the 5-minute mark when the team had an 18-point lead. Where's the issue?

[akhhorus]

I admit, I may have been thinking about our ranking after 14 games. But if you look, we are are less than 2 yards from being ranked 9th in total defense.

It isn't as dramatic as past seasons when Gregg was completely carrying team, but I think the defense has done enough for us to be 12-win team.

The offense just hasn't gotten it done, a fact I attribute to a young QB and injuries to the O-Line and WRs.

No way, the defense has cost us game after game. The only losses this year that they didn't were the Green Bay and Tampa. The Defense only won us a couple games this year(Detroit and 1st Philly, but those are very debatable) and they damn near blew a lot of other games that we won(Arizona, Jets, Miami).

When they're not playing their soft cover 2 I would definitely put them in the top of the league, possibly top 10, but the problem is we play a little bit of good D and then get a lead and switch to the bend but not break type of D Williams wants. Unfortunately, it has broken many times this year and we got lucky it didn't break in the second half last night. Just lucky, cause it probably would have if not for that challenge.

Thats the problem. Williams plays the Cover-1 for a half at most, then goes to his base prevent way too early. How many games does it not have to work before he sees the flaw?

Yup, GW is too soft in coverage and has been for most of the last 3 years. We should have stayed aggressive after their first score. I understand not letting them score too quickly approach, but c'mon how the heck do you think we built that lead. we forced those int's and we should stay on a young qb and try to force more.

Another problem with Williams: he doesn't blitz the QBs he should.

[cal_junior]

you lashed out at people who were disagreeing with in the past, and it drove you away.

Oh, i've never left. My relationship with the site has remained constant for the last three or four years. I just don't post unless I'm strongly motivated. Criticism of the Post, Sean Taylor's death and the recent calling for JG's head were the only times I felt the need to say anything.

[akhhorus]

I guess I'm curious what the problem was last night. The defense gave up just the one long drive until the 5-minute mark when the team had an 18-point lead. Where's the issue?

Against a one dimensional team with a joke of a QB? The "genius" should have done better. This is precisely the problem. If Williams gives up 4 decent to long drives to arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL, what happens when he plays someone halway decent?

[akhhorus]

Oh, i've never left. My relationship with the site has remained constant for the last three or four years. I just don't post unless I'm strongly motivated. Criticism of the Post, Sean Taylor's death and the recent calling for JG's head were the only times I felt the need to say anything.

Thanks for not responding to 90% of my post where I said that, and you can believe whatever you want to. The facts are different. I noticed you when you freaked out, and I also noticed you disappeared for a long time.

[cal_junior]

No way, the defense has cost us game after game. The only losses this year that they didn't were the Green Bay and Tampa. The Defense only won us a couple games this year(Detroit and 1st Philly, but those are very debatable) and they damn near blew a lot of other games that we won(Arizona, Jets, Miami).

I think we'll agree that NE game was a disaster regardless, and that if anything made it worse it was the TOs by the offense.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying the defense cost us the Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game and the Buffalo game?

[cal_junior]

you can believe whatever you want to. The facts are different.

I'm trying to keep this civil ("freaked out" was a nice troll-trick though. Well-played.), but do you have a way to prove I don't read the site consistently? Those are "facts" I would love to see.

[akhhorus]

I think we'll agree that NE game was a disaster regardless, and that if anything made it worse it was the TOs by the offense.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying the defense cost us the Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game and the Buffalo game?

The Defense cost us the 1st Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game, Gibbs(and the defense) cost us the Bills game. The NE game was over before it began.

[akhhorus]

I'm trying to keep this civil ("freaked out" was a nice troll-trick though. Well-played.), but do you have a way to prove I don't read the site consistently? Those are "facts" I would love to see.

I'm not trolling, nor have I said that you are either. I notice people on the main page, I recall not seeing you for a long time.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

The Defense cost us the 1st Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game, Gibbs(and the defense) cost us the Bills game. The NE game was over before it began.

I can agree with this except maybe the Bills as we could have scored once more.

[guess88]

I think we'll agree that NE game was a disaster regardless, and that if anything made it worse it was the TOs by the offense.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying the defense cost us the Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game and the Buffalo game?


I'd put more blame on the O for those games, except Dallas. No defense is gonna hold up if you do nothing but 3 and outs, and i remember against the 1st Gnats game I think we went the whole 3rd qtr with nothing but 3 & outs.

Dallas was on the D though. You play Dallas, your primary defensive focus should be stopping TO, and we let him have a field day. Inexcusable. That's GW going into cover 2 all day, and getting exposed like he has all season. I still don't know why he keeps doing it, and I hope one day JLC, or someone has an interview with him and gives us some rational. If our D plays like that again against Dallas, or any other team if we're so lucky... then we stand a good chance of losing.

[akhhorus]

I'd put more blame on the O for those games, except Dallas. No defense is gonna hold up if you do nothing but 3 and outs, and i remember against the 1st Gnats game I think we went the whole 3rd qtr with nothing but 3 & outs.

Thats your opinion, but what about the 2nd Philly game, where the defense gave up 20 points in the 5 minutes the Eagles held the ball?

Dallas was on the D though. You play Dallas, your primary defensive focus should be stopping TO, and we let him have a field day. Inexcusable. That's GW going into cover 2 all day, and getting exposed like he has all season. I still don't know why he keeps doing it, and I hope one day JLC, or someone has an interview with him and gives us some rational. If our D plays like that again against Dallas, or any other team if we're so lucky... then we stand a good chance of losing.

GW did an interview about his 2006 defense where he said that he wasn't going to play his soft Cover 2 any more, and it lasted all of 1 quarter of 2007.

[akhhorus]

I can agree with this except maybe the Bills as we could have scored once more.

And the defense could have stopped Trent Edwards on that final drive. He's not a good Qb and he had no probs. The Timeouts just made it easier.

[CNYSkinFan]

Against a one dimensional team with a joke of a QB? The "genius" should have done better. This is precisely the problem. If Williams gives up 4 decent to long drives to arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL, what happens when he plays someone halway decent?
New England

[Skinz4lyfe]

I agree w/most of what you've said Akh but I disagree a bit on the DEs. You may not have heard their names but I think they did well in not allowing Peterson to get off the edge for his famous long runs (save for one 3rd quarter run). But I also think the Vikes didn't use Peterson enough in general. I would have kept pounding him and using him on outside screens and such. You gotta feed the horse as much as possible. That being said we must find a way to keep a solid gameplan throughout the game GW! Don't change unless the offense starts dictating to us and I never got the sense that happened. They came back because of that same soft zone crap. Luckily for us our offense bailed us out and Tavaris Jackson isn't very good. All in all just glad for another win.

[guess88]

Thats your opinion, but what about the 2nd Philly game, where the defense gave up 20 points in the 5 minutes the Eagles held the ball?

Yeah that game was hazy to me.. I think I'm subconsciously trying to block it out. I'll put that on the D as well. Let's hope GW learns from the 1st game, and keeps the girls to single digits this week.

[csquared]

AKH Drink the Kool-Aid dang it! :bling:

[cal_junior]

I know, I know, he's a member of the media and not to be trusted. But I think his comments on the blog are relevant to our discussion of the 'D.'

Where to begin? With Gregg Williams earning the second G, you know, the one for genius? Cuz he brought the thunder Sunday night. Killer game plan and his players were clearly pumped to be playing that old 4-6 stuff. Great execution on their part.

In the second half, even when Minnesota did move the ball, it was at Williams's pace. The deep zone shell took away the deep ball - the only chance the Vikings had of getting back in the game - and when the Vikes did get in the end zone, it took an effort. The Skins smartly were willing to give up all those slants and intermediate passes, and forced scoring drives of 9, 10 and 13 plays, knowing time and the scoreboard was on their side.

Williams was doing some dizzying substitutions, getting 3-4 players off at a time and keeping his veterans fresh throughout. Kids like HB Blades, Chris Wilson, Leigh Torrence, Reed Doughty, Anthony Montgomery (known as 'Ol Monty to those media schlubs who were rolling with him since back in OTAs), Kedric Golston got a great run, and guys like Springs, Griffin and Godfrey were spared some wear and tear. This defense has dealt with so many crippling losses already, and managing injuries and playing time was huge.

Williams played an ultra-aggressive Buddy Ryan scheme against Jackson in the first half in particular and the kid had no idea what hit him. All the work stressing double moves and patience to the DBs paid off as Jackson threw two huge picks. The decision to get Godfrey in the base package in place of Rocky McIntosh was sage. He was dominant against the run and forced a huge fumble as well.

Just consider all of the varied personnel groupings the defensive coaches utilized:
Defensive backs - at various times there were either, 3, 4, 5 or 6 on the field at once
Linebackers - 2, 3, or 4 on the field at once
Linemen - 3, 4 or 5 on the field at once

They schemed the hell out of this game and completely shutdown the Vikings ability to run. And once the score got out of hand, Minnesota didn't even have the will to utilize the NFL's top-ranked run game anymore.


SKINS D - They were awesome. Peterson was a complete nonfactor, with his coach part of the problem (more Childress bashing to come, promise). Minnesota ran for 1.8 yards per carry in the first half. The Redskins have allowed 5 TDs in the last 5 games since that poor second-half at Dallas. They have allowed just two rushing TDs to running backs in the past 7 weeks, and one was the alert TD they gifted to Westbrook in the Philly game to give the offense a chance to tie late down by 8.


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/12/christmas_eve_hback.html

[akhhorus]

New England

Touche.

Yeah that game was hazy to me.. I think I'm subconsciously trying to block it out. I'll put that on the D as well. Let's hope GW learns from the 1st game, and keeps the girls to single digits this week.

For GW to learn/change, he has admit he's making mistakes.

[akhhorus]

I know, I know, he's a member of the media and not to be trusted. But I think his comments on the blog are relevant to our discussion of the 'D.'

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/12/christmas_eve_hback.html

And? Its his opinion(and his comments about the deep zone are absurd, if you give up a bunch of 3rd downs, you're not dictating to the offense). You're always so quick to dump on the Post that it rings hollow that you're trying to hold one of their writers up as "proof".

[cal_junior]

You're always so quick to dump on the Post that it rings hollow that you're trying to hold one of their writers up as "proof".

All it should 'ring' is that this person who, unlike most of us, was at the game has a pretty different opinion of the defense than a few people in this thread. And I'm never quick to dump on the Post. Best paper in the country, hands down.

[akhhorus]

All it should 'ring' is that this person who, unlike most of us, was at the game has a pretty different opinion of the defense than a few people in this thread.

And, its precisely that. His opinion. Like I said: I don't think anyone can say Williams was dictating to the Vikings in the 2nd half because they had no problems moving the ball through the air--especially on 3rd downs.

[akhhorus]

PFT also weights in on the challenge issue:

SUBSTITUTION RULES NO SAFE HARBOR FOR VIKES, EITHER

In our most recent post, we explained that the officiating crew in Sunday night's game between the Redskins and the Vikings correctly used replay to determine that the Minnesota defense had twelve men on the field at the commencement of a key momentum-changing play in the game. (Scroll down for more.)

But now we're getting e-mails from readers arguing that the Vikings had 12 men on the field only because they were in the process of making a substitution. Under Rule 5, Section 2, Article 10, the umpire is require to stand over the ball until the referee deems that the defense has had a reasonable time to complete its substitutions.

However, this rule applies only when the offense has been a substitution. We've watched the video, and we've concluded that there were no substitutions made by Washington. Sure, the Redskins were using a different formation. But it was the same players.

So, again, the officials got it right.

REFS GOT IT RIGHT IN REDSKINS-VIKINGS GAME

Without question, the key moment in Sunday night's game between the Redskins and the Vikings came after the 'Skins fumbled a snap while trying to head off a replay challenge to a questionable call on a sideline catch by receiver Santana Moss.

The Vikings recovered at the Washington 47, and they were poised to cut deeper into a 25-point lead that had been chopped down to eleven.

But then Redskins coach Joe Gibbs threw the red flag, challenging whether the Vikings had 12 men on the field for the momentum-changing play. And so referee Bill Leavy visited the voting booth, and emerged with an agreement that Vikings defensive tackle Spencer Johnson didn't make it to the sideline before the ball was snapped. The Redskins regained possession, and five penalty yards were given to them.

(Since the play with the botched snap had never happened, Vikings coach Brad Childress apparently could have still challenged the Moss catch. However, the available replays on NBC seemed to suggest that Moss had one foot in bounds and dragged his other toe.)

We've received plenty of e-mails from unhappy Vikings fans asking how a penalty can be imposed retroactively through replay review. If, some have argued, replay is available to assess penalties that were missed, why can't it be used to spot a false start or an illegal shift or a neutral zone infraction?

These are all good questions, and we assumed that the answer was that the rules specifically permit the use of video replay to determine whether twelve men were on the field.

(The situation reminds us of the infamous 1995 game between the Steelers and the Vikings, when Pittsburgh coach Bill Cowher jammed a photo into the pocket of the referee Gordon McCarter at halftime after line judge Ben Montgomery incorrectly counted twelve men on the field for the Steelers. Cowher, by the way, was right. Still, the league fined Cowher $7,500 for his conduct -- and Montgomery and McCarter were fined a game check each for their error.)

So we checked the rule book, and there it is. Under Rule 15, Section 9, part (c), item 5, one of the reviewable plays is: "Number of players on the field."

The refs got it right, and kudos to Joe Gibbs for knowing to exercise the challenge. His quick thinking more than makes up for the back-to-back time out thing against the Bills.

[cal_junior]

I don't think anyone can say Williams was dictating to the Vikings in the 2nd half .

Can you explain that further? It seemed clear Williams backed into a zone, allowing the Vikings to complete short passes but forcing them to chew up clock time they simply did not have, as well as making it impossible for quick-strikes down the field.

[SkinKing]

Akh seems to be knowledgeable about the game. I see some people question his credentials. My theory is if you don't like it, then don't read it. I enjoy his write-ups. Only thing I have against Akh is he seems to get personal with certain people. Such as Brunell and G.Williams. For instance, when Collins came off the bench and had a perfect passer rating, he gave him a 8.25. I believe if Brunell came off the bench and gave the same performance, he would have gotten a 10. Just my opinion.

I also believe he is very hard on G. Williams. The defense hasn't lost games this year, it's the offense who has failed to score in the second half this year. Yes the D's play is softer in the second half. But that is to chew up the clock and not give up the big play. I don't mind his opinion on G.Williams, but it's every freaken week he has to bad mouth him. Other than that, I enjoy his articles.

[akhhorus]

Can you explain that further? It seemed clear Williams backed into a zone, allowing the Vikings to complete short passes but forcing them to chew up clock time they simply did not have, as well as making it impossible for quick-strikes down the field.

The Vikes were shooting for the holes in the zones(short wide and medium middle). They mixed up the short and medium routes with a lot of success. After it was clear that this was their strategy, Williams should have adjusted. But I think there's a better chance of getting of seeing 2 suns rise tomorrow than Williams adjusting.

[akhhorus]

Akh seems to be knowledgeable about the game. I see some people question his credentials. My theory is if you don't like it, then don't read it. I enjoy his write-ups. Only thing I have against Akh is he seems to get personal with certain people. Such as Brunell and G.Williams. For instance, when Collins came off the bench and had a perfect passer rating, he gave him a 8.25. I believe if Brunell came off the bench and gave the same performance, he would have gotten a 10. Just my opinion.

I also believe he is very hard on G. Williams. The defense hasn't lost games this year, it's the offense who has failed to score in the second half this year. Yes the D's play is softer in the second half. But that is to chew up the clock and not give up the big play. I don't mind his opinion on G.Williams, but it's every freaken week he has to bad mouth him. Other than that, I enjoy his articles.

Thanks..I think. And we just disagree on Williams. I think the evidence is overwhelming that he's doing a terrible job. If he would actually go back to Williams we know and love from 04 and 05, I wouldn't have anything to bad mouth him on. But the man suffered a stroke or something and his defense isn't the same we've seen from him.

Btw, Collins' QB rating was better in the Chicago game and I gave him the same grade(marked off for a bad turnover).

[Biggie]

PFT also weights in on the challenge issue:
I think that basically puts the nail in the coffin when it comes to the debate over the penalty. Before I read this, I had counted this among the "games we should have lost" along with Arizona and the Jets, but now I can breathe easy and celebrate with a clear conscience. :)

[SkinKing]

The Vikes were shooting for the holes in the zones(short wide and medium middle). They mixed up the short and medium routes with a lot of success. After it was clear that this was their strategy, Williams should have adjusted. But I think there's a better chance of getting of seeing 2 suns rise tomorrow than Williams adjusting.

I disagree. I think you keep doing what your doing and let the Vikes chew the clock for you. They were so far behind. Again, until they get with-in 2 scores, play soft. Just don't give up the easy long TD pass. The clock was our friend in the 2nd half. We can't take everything away, we have to give a little to take a little.

[SkinKing]

Thanks..I think. And we just disagree on Williams. I think the evidence is overwhelming that he's doing a terrible job. If he would actually go back to Williams we know and love from 04 and 05, I wouldn't have anything to bad mouth him on. But the man suffered a stroke or something and his defense isn't the same we've seen from him.

Btw, Collins' QB rating was better in the Chicago game and I gave him the same grade(marked off for a bad turnover).

I wouldn't say terrible job. What is our D ranked?

[Dolla Bill]

Wow. People are still debating this? Some of us, fans, are almost acting like we lost. Was it a pretty win? No. Was it a blow out? No. What was it then? Oh yeah...that's right, a WIN. Can't people just agree to disagree? Sheesh.


Btw, awesome write up Akh. I always look forward to your week in reviews.

[Biggie]

I wouldn't say terrible job. What is our D ranked?
They are the 12th ranked defense (in terms of yards allowed) in the NFL. They're 13th in points allowed per game (20.3)*. They're 9th in stopping drives on 3rd down, giving up conversions on 38% of them. They're 8th in rushing defense with 97.3 yards a game, and 16th in pass defense with 218.5 per game.

[cal_junior]

Before I read this, I had counted this among the "games we should have lost" along with Arizona and the Jets,

Wow, that's an incredibly pessimistic view to have ever taken on last night. Even if the call was wrong and the Vikes get the balll there, we still had a very well-earned 25-14 lead with less than 9 minutes to play in the game. They gotta get an 8-pointer and a 3-pointer without us scoring again just to tie it up.
You got get closer than that for a "should have lost" game.

Cheer up, please. One win and we're in the playoffs for the third time in 15 years.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

And the defense could have stopped Trent Edwards on that final drive. He's not a good Qb and he had no probs. The Timeouts just made it easier.

Yes, but that was one throw. Big mistake by the D, and I do not let them off the hook. But anyone can get lucky once. And, the D we faced that day should not have been able to hold our O down the way they did. Point is, the offense did not do their jobs either. That's not the case with games like Philly and Dallas for sure.

[Biggie]

Wow, that's an incredibly pessimistic view to have ever taken on last night. Even if the call was wrong and the Vikes get the balll there, we still had a very well-earned 25-14 lead with less than 9 minutes to play in the game. They gotta get an 8-pointer and a 3-pointer without us scoring again just to tie it up.
You got get closer than that for a "should have lost" game.

Cheer up, please. One win and we're in the playoffs for the third time in 15 years.
The Vikings were on a roll and regardless of how much time Gregg was "forcing" them to burn, they were marching on us. I have no confidence that the lead would have survived that fumble.

[cal_junior]

The Vikings were on a roll and regardless of how much time Gregg was "forcing" them to burn, they were marching on us. I have no confidence that the lead would have survived that fumble.

That, of course, is possible, but comparing it to Arizona or the Jets game is a big stretch, IMO.

[cal_junior]

Anybody know how many Week 1 defensive starters we were without last night? I can think of Carlos, ST and Rocky. Is that all?

[young093]

And what makes it more frustrating is that even with the tragedy and the injuries, they still have the pieces to beat anyone in the NFC. And its not execution that has kept us from being a contender in the NFC, its the coaches, who are coaching not to lose and not coaching to win.

what's up guys. Im not really new here i normally just read other people posts. But i couldn't agree more with the coaches coaching not to lose rather than coaching to win, and about the second half defense. I was just thinking the old GW was back only to be dissipointed by the cover 2 scheme. I mean we held thier rushing attack down and we were getting pressure on thier young QB, creating TO's ect only to watch us sit back and watch our lead get smaller and smaller. I honestlly think that we were only 1 good challenge away from losing the game. Kudos to whoever caught that 12 man on the field, he kept our season alive.

[akhhorus]

I wouldn't say terrible job. What is our D ranked?

The stat ranking doesn't tell the story. As I said earlier in the thread, we're 12th in yards, 13rd in points, 18th in Sacks, 23-24th in turnovers(probably 30th in blown leads).

Yes, but that was one throw. Big mistake by the D, and I do not let them off the hook. But anyone can get lucky once. And, the D we faced that day should not have been able to hold our O down the way they did. Point is, the offense did not do their jobs either. That's not the case with games like Philly and Dallas for sure.

Asking the defense to make one stop isn't asking a lot. They've blown that several times this year.

Anybody know how many Week 1 defensive starters we were without last night? I can think of Carlos, ST and Rocky. Is that all?

Thats all.

[skinsfan36]

Anybody know how many Week 1 defensive starters we were without last night? I can think of Carlos, ST and Rocky. Is that all?

thats it but thats 3 key cogs

well you can add randy thomas,jon jansen to that list on the offensive side of the ball although heyer played well fabini is terrible i seen him pull on one play and thats the only good block he threw i saw

[redskin_rich]

I have been criticizing many aspects of our team all year but I can honestly say that I am now just enjoying watching them play. This is all I expect as a fan, to see my team playing good football when it matters the most and putting themselves into a position to play in the postseason. There are 20 teams along with 20 fan bases that would like to be where we are right now.

Not drinking any kool aid here, just finally enjoying some Redskins football.

[hail2skins]

I think we'll agree that NE game was a disaster regardless, and that if anything made it worse it was the TOs by the offense.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying the defense cost us the Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game and the Buffalo game?
You need to cut out this troll stuff because it doesn't make sense. Argue the points or concede or just agree to disagree.

[hail2skins]

AKH Drink the Kool-Aid dang it! :bling:You just cut it out and contribute some info

[hail2skins]

Wow, that's an incredibly pessimistic view to have ever taken on last night. Even if the call was wrong and the Vikes get the balll there, we still had a very well-earned 25-14 lead with less than 9 minutes to play in the game. They gotta get an 8-pointer and a 3-pointer without us scoring again just to tie it up.
You got get closer than that for a "should have lost" game.

Cheer up, please. One win and we're in the playoffs for the third time in 15 years.To me, this post serves as evidence that you don't understand the NFL. I lost a lot of respect for you with this comment. Sorry, that's just how I see it.

[oldskinfan]

Jason LaCanfora also has a good, unbiased game analysis. I find he is usually very fair good or bad and is not even a skins' fan.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/12/christmas_eve_hback.html

He seems to give the D more credit than Akh and has good analysis on the offensive game plan. I should also point out his analysis is mostly specifcically about this but he does point out the recent turnover ratio during the 3 wins vs 4 losses, and just how well overall the D has been playing despite all the injuries.

[akhhorus]

Jason LaCanfora also has a good, unbiased game analysis. I find he is usually very fair good or bad and is not even a skins' fan.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/12/christmas_eve_hback.html

He seems to give the D more credit than Akh and has good analysis on the offensive game plan. I should also point out his analysis is mostly specifcically about this but he does point out the recent turnover ratio during the 3 wins vs 4 losses, and just how well overall the D has been playing despite all the injuries.

As I said in my column, Williams did a good job in the first half, then reverted back to his crap Cover-2, with bad results....again. To say that Williams is back to being a genius is absurd--especially with the scheme & coaching of the defense this year, even despite all the injuries. I respect JLC, but I think he's completely off base here. How many times do we have to see Williams stubbornly play a defense that clearly doesn't work after 31 games? Hasn't he figured out that teams know how to beat it? Why does he still play it? Why does anyone tolerate it?

[shally]

As I said in my column, Williams did a good job in the first half, then reverted back to his crap Cover-2, with bad results....again. To say that Williams is back to being a genius is absurd--especially with the scheme & coaching of the defense this year, even despite all the injuries. I respect JLC, but I think he's completely off base here. How many times do we have to see Williams stubbornly play a defense that clearly doesn't work after 31 games? Hasn't he figured out that teams know how to beat it? Why does he still play it? Why does anyone tolerate it?

who is going to call him on it ? the media is in his corner for the most part

and really, he plays to an audience of one, gibbs.. who is gibbs going to dial up, bill arnsparger ??? gibbs doesnt have the defensive skill set, plus i think the offensive struggles have disarmed him as far as putting this on GW's
doorstep-- even though, as you correctly pointed out, IT SHOULD BE.

i cant believe that GW believes in what he is doing in the second half of games. and yet, at the end of the day, what other conclusion can you reach?

what's more, if gibbs returns, as i think he will, we are stuck with another year of GW as DC. nobody is going to save us from him by making him a HC this offseason. the only way i see his schemes taking us deep into the playoffs is if we have superior players to other teams.. we are going to have to have one heck of an offseason for the defense (assuming they even recognize that the DL needs help) to plug those holes

sadly, the only way i see us being spared these same conversations next year is if the offense finally catches fire under JC.. and i think there is a high enough probability of this happening for gibbs to want to come back. these last 3 games seem to have lifted gibbs spirits immensely and i think he wants to finish out next year

[PennSkinsFan]

Good article Akh, but Fabini actually played a pretty nice game, leading several significant blocks and providing cover for Portis. Good game Jason. Don't believe what you read here in regards to Fabini.

[Hr fan]

Jason LaCanfora also has a good, unbiased game analysis. I find he is usually very fair good or bad and is not even a skins' fan.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/12/christmas_eve_hback.html

He seems to give the D more credit than Akh and has good analysis on the offensive game plan. I should also point out his analysis is mostly specifcically about this but he does point out the recent turnover ratio during the 3 wins vs 4 losses, and just how well overall the D has been playing despite all the injuries.

Never be fooled by a homer analysis. I like JLC and enjoyed his posting - thanks for the link. But unless you think Mo Mentum is a figment, the 12 man call won the game. We score immediately after, and without this even if the Vikes don't score on the recovered fumble the game is 25-21, way too close for comfort. You could see Mo jumping on the Vikes bandwagon that started with Danny Smith not telling his troops to watch for the onside kick (why hasn't anyone else seen this as a major coaching goof? We don't care if the runback is for a TD, we only care at that point that the Vikes don't jump-start themselves. I screamed at the TV before the play and reacted shall we say angrilly after the Vikes recovery to extent that my dogs found refuge on a different floor.). You could then see fickle Mo deserting them and hopping on the 'Skins bandwagon when the 12th man call went our way.

[lorimike]

Against a one dimensional team with a joke of a QB? The "genius" should have done better. This is precisely the problem. If Williams gives up 4 decent to long drives to arguably the worst starting QB in the NFL, what happens when he plays someone halway decent?>>>

Once Minnesota decided to pass we had no answer because beyond Andre Carter we don't have anyone who can generate a consistant pass rush. So I'm hoping this tea will finally use their top pick or at least a 2nd rounder on a Left Defensive end.

[akhhorus]

Good article Akh, but Fabini actually played a pretty nice game, leading several significant blocks and providing cover for Portis. Good game Jason. Don't believe what you read here in regards to Fabini.

I totally disagree here. Fabini was victimized Bob knows how many times. He missed a bunch of short yardage blocks, and Pat Williams had no problem with him. Whenever you saw Pat Williams in the backfield, it was because of Fabini. And he was in the backfield a lot.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I thought Andre Carter played very good tonight. Not so much as a pass rusher but he made a couple key stops against the run. Also, he played a lot of the game on the opposite side of the line, which I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned. .

I thought that was great. Carter has been awesome but teams heve been running the ball at him. That was a good curveball by GW. Wonder why we don't do more of this. We had some new D-line formations against the Lions as well and that was the best game all year for those guys.

[Keino]

I totally disagree here. Fabini was victimized Bob knows how many times. He missed a bunch of short yardage blocks, and Pat Williams had no problem with him. Whenever you saw Pat Williams in the backfield, it was because of Fabini. And he was in the backfield a lot.

To be fair, Pat Williams makes lots of Guards look foolish (and he victimized Rabach more than a few times). The guy is simply a beast. I thought Fabini did a decent job all things considered and there were a few of those gashing runs by Portis where I thought he threw an instrumental block.

[jtovb2005]

great stuff as usual..

but i dont think you are giving collins quite enough credit. he gets the ball off in time and throws a soft catchable ball. he made 2 stupid fumbles that could have seriously hurt the team, but i think overall he gives the team a far better chance of winning right now than cambell.. and that includes the playoffs.

you just have to think about the jags pulling garrard in favor of a recovering leftwich in the playoffs to see what would happen. even if JC is better, he will be rusty and his timing will be off. collins has handled 2 hostile road games in a row with little margin for error.. IMHO he gets to finish out the year..

as far as the second half defense, why would anyone expect williams to adapt to any team's change in offense ? his defensive schemes are set in stone with the cover 2 being the default setting.. he has to be the most fossilized adjuster inthe history of def coordinators

I agree here Shally. If we go to the playoffs you keep the same QB that got you there. Can't really complain about how Collins is playing right now if you ask me. Nothing wrong with a manager vice stat machine (actually he has some pretty good stats I think?) if it wins you games. You could argue that the other guys on Offense are finally contributing where I think the sure let JC down pretty much the whole season.

On the first fumbled snap did anyone think the ball was snapped too early maybe? All the other linemen were still in their stance for a pretty long time it seemed for that to be the correct snap count. I was wondering if Collins was not expecting the ball on that one?

The defense did seem to adapt, right into the Cover out of what was working great in the first half. I was thinking Williams just figured that the Vikes plain old didn't have enough time to come back. Turns out he was right but man don't any of those earlier games haunt Williams. At least we saw a half of aggressive defense.

Happy Holidays everyone.

[jtovb2005]

...Don't get me wrong, he was serviceable, but IMO we stand a better chance to win with JC then TC.

The facts of the last 3 games don't square with this? Are 3 games in a row, and hopefully a 4th to get into the situation you want, not enough to change your mind? Very very dangerous to change at that point if you ask me.

[jtovb2005]

I can't speak for others, but my goal is to make the playoffs every year exactly because I think that means you have a shot to get to the Super Bowl. For me the two go hand-in-hand.

Have the Skins played as well as they could throughout the season? Of course not.
But if they beat Dallas Sunday do I think we have a shot of beating Seattle/Tampa Bay followed by Dallas and Green Bay? Absolutely. None of those teams should scare the Skins.

The margin of error is so small in the NFL that saying your goal every year is to make the playoffs is basically like saying your goal is to make/win the Super Bowl.

A good example would be the sixth-seeded 2005 Steelers

Bingo. You do need to Make the Playoffs before you go to the Super Bowl. After a long season your goal should be to make the playoffs first then start the hunt for the big one at that time. Being one of the 2 teams is not that easy. Being 1 of 6 is a bit easier. Shoot for that first then see what happens.

[jtovb2005]

The refs gave the Vikes the last 7 points with the phantom call on 4th down.

Was that the Pass interference in the end zone? If so no kidding that was a crap call. Poor guy even got yelled at by one of the starters :)

[shally]

Never be fooled by a homer analysis. I like JLC and enjoyed his posting - thanks for the link. But unless you think Mo Mentum is a figment, the 12 man call won the game. We score immediately after, and without this even if the Vikes don't score on the recovered fumble the game is 25-21, way too close for comfort. You could see Mo jumping on the Vikes bandwagon that started with Danny Smith not telling his troops to watch for the onside kick (why hasn't anyone else seen this as a major coaching goof? We don't care if the runback is for a TD, we only care at that point that the Vikes don't jump-start themselves. I screamed at the TV before the play and reacted shall we say angrilly after the Vikes recovery to extent that my dogs found refuge on a different floor.). You could then see fickle Mo deserting them and hopping on the 'Skins bandwagon when the 12th man call went our way.

that's a good point. i had a feeling that the vikes were going to go for that onside kick..they were totally caught with their pants down on that one.. as it turned out, they had a 3 and out, but it was inexcusable not to even be aware of it

[shally]

I agree here Shally. If we go to the playoffs you keep the same QB that got you there. Can't really complain about how Collins is playing right now if you ask me. Nothing wrong with a manager vice stat machine (actually he has some pretty good stats I think?) if it wins you games. You could argue that the other guys on Offense are finally contributing where I think the sure let JC down pretty much the whole season.

On the first fumbled snap did anyone think the ball was snapped too early maybe? All the other linemen were still in their stance for a pretty long time it seemed for that to be the correct snap count. I was wondering if Collins was not expecting the ball on that one?

The defense did seem to adapt, right into the Cover out of what was working great in the first half. I was thinking Williams just figured that the Vikes plain old didn't have enough time to come back. Turns out he was right but man don't any of those earlier games haunt Williams. At least we saw a half of aggressive defense.

Happy Holidays everyone.

some stats i saw on the nfl channel last night.. collins has a 119 qb rating in the second half of games.. that is one of the reasons why we are not losing games inthe second half, because GW is still going with his soft schemes.

also, TC doesnt have enough snaps to qualify for qb ratings, but if he could, only peyton and braydy would have higher overall ratings.

i know he looked dreadful in preseason games before. and i know he is a career backup BUT he is playing within himself and playing exceptionally well (even at the meadowlands he outplayed the home qb). what more could you ask from your qb ?

if he beats dallas, there is absolutely no question who starts in the playoffs

[colkurtz]

Jason Campbell is simply NOT going to be ready to play this season - even if we go to the Superbowl. Potentially ruin his knee for next season? So we can put him in at 80% capability, rusty, on his mid-70s QB rating? Pleazzzzzzze - this just defies logic to me.

Collins is playing very well (over 100 QB rating) and the team is winning - you stay with him who got you there.

Next season it will be JC back in the saddle.

[Farmer Ted]

Jason Campbell is simply NOT going to be ready to play this season - even if we go to the Superbowl. Potentially ruin his knee for next season? So we can put him in at 80% capability, rusty, on his mid-70s QB rating? Pleazzzzzzze - this just defies logic to me.

Collins is playing very well (over 100 QB rating) and the team is winning - you stay with him who got you there.

Next season it will be JC back in the saddle.

Herm Edwards would start Campbell in a heartbeat.

[shally]

Herm Edwards would start Campbell in a heartbeat.

so did don shula, starting bob griese over earl morrall.. but the injury was far different (ankle fracture) and less short term (6-8 weeks or more as i recall)

but had griese been bad or re injured his ankle shula would never have heard the end of it..

there simply is NO reason to consider playing JC right now.. and if TC wins sunday and then repeats that against seattle the following week, the same is true

[FunBunch5]

Jason Campbell is simply NOT going to be ready to play this season - even if we go to the Superbowl. Potentially ruin his knee for next season? So we can put him in at 80% capability, rusty, on his mid-70s QB rating? Pleazzzzzzze - this just defies logic to me.

Collins is playing very well (over 100 QB rating) and the team is winning - you stay with him who got you there.

Next season it will be JC back in the saddle.

If TC gets us too the SB, I wouldn't want to see JC start even if he was healthy. At that point it would be obvious we would have something special, and I wouldn't want to mess it up.

[skinsfan36]

collins has to stay qb if he beats dallas in the playoffs no question

[hessy36]

The presidency of George Bush the Elder.


I have a hunch: You hate Jason Campbell so much because Patrick Ramsey is your brother/neighbor/daughter's ex-boyfriend.


This isn't about hate, it's about winning. JC didn't get it done, and now TC is. Anyone that has eyeballs can see that, and I'm pretty happy about it. I'm not going to get back into trying to convince you all that I DO think JC IS our future, because you all won't believe it, so why bother. Right now is right now and that's all I give a Christmas Stocking about!! .. Go TC!!! Ho Ho Ho.. HAIL!

[Battle Cat]

that's a good point. i had a feeling that the vikes were going to go for that onside kick..they were totally caught with their pants down on that one.. as it turned out, they had a 3 and out, but it was inexcusable not to even be aware of it
Isn't that like the 3rd onside kick we have lost this year. That has to be like a record.

[cal_junior]

You need to cut out this troll stuff because it doesn't make sense. Argue the points or concede or just agree to disagree.

Why was this directed at me?

Ahk writes this:

Originally Posted by akhhorus View Post
No way, the defense has cost us game after game. The only losses this year that they didn't were the Green Bay and Tampa. The Defense only won us a couple games this year(Detroit and 1st Philly, but those are very debatable) and they damn near blew a lot of other games that we won(Arizona, Jets, Miami).

And my follow-up was to get him to clarify which four games he meant, since that paragraph was a little jumbled.

writing:

I think we'll agree that NE game was a disaster regardless, and that if anything made it worse it was the TOs by the offense.

Just so I'm clear, you're saying the defense cost us the Giants game, the Dallas game, the Philly game and the Buffalo game?


The idea was to then go over those four games and see whether I agreed or disagreed that the 'D' cost us all four

And you say that post was trolling? Please explain.

[cal_junior]

To me, this post serves as evidence that you don't understand the NFL. I lost a lot of respect for you with this comment. Sorry, that's just how I see it.

Then if you felt the Minnesota game was one we "should have lost" please tell us why. Relaying how you feel about my individual lack of knowledge doesn't help the process.

[hail2skins]

Why was this directed at me?

Ahk writes this:



And my follow-up was to get him to clarify which four games he meant, since that paragraph was a little jumbled.

writing:




The idea was to then go over those four games and see whether I agreed or disagreed that the 'D' cost us all four

And you say that post was trolling? Please explain.In post #154 you referred to his "freaked out" about you as a troll-trick. That's what I'm responding to. You made a good point in telling to him to prove you don't read the board consistently but the troll-trick part wasn't necessary. I think I also stated somewhere that you should PM me if you wanted to carry on discussion so that we don't little the thread. I'd be happy to continue this in PM's.

[hail2skins]

Then if you felt the Minnesota game was one we "should have lost" please tell us why. Relaying how you feel about my individual lack of knowledge doesn't help the process.Who said we should have lost? If I'm not mistaken, I believe I posted somewhere in another thread that I wouldn't rule out the Skins being able to run against Minn. Other than that, the only other comments I've made have been in reference to my lack of confidence in Collins.

[hessy36]

I see the mob is in full swing. Too bad we can't all be happy we have won the last three games and agree that Collins is the #1 reason.

[hail2skins]

I see the mob is in full swing. Too bad we can't all be happy we have won the last three games and agree that Collins is the #1 reason.Well, there's no mob and I believe people are happy we are winning. Unlike you, I don't attribute it to Collins alone. Portis is running and the running game is a QB's best friend. But you keep going on about it's all Collins and I'll give Portis his due.

[hessy36]

Well, there's no mob and I believe people are happy we are winning. Unlike you, I don't attribute it to Collins alone. Portis is running and the running game is a QB's best friend. But you keep going on about it's all Collins and I'll give Portis his due.

"No mob" is questionable to say the least..

It all goes hand in hand.. good running = good throwing.. and the added plus of NO turn overs (thank you TC). JC is going to learn and be a great QB, but we all know that JC didn't give this team the confidence it needed to win right now, and I really find it pathetic that some of you just can't admit that... no matter how well TC does.

[Patrick]

"No mob" is questionable to say the least..

It all goes hand in hand.. good running = good throwing.. and the added plus of NO turn overs (thank you TC). JC is going to learn and be a great QB, but we all know that JC didn't give this team the confidence it needed to win right now, and I really find it pathetic that some of you just can't admit that... no matter how well TC does.

There are a few other factors that you haven't considered -
First some timely luck (reference discussions on Moss ability to make those "50/50" catches) AND Collins has benefited from an O-Line that seems to be beginning to jell some. He’s getting some TIME to make those good decisions. (Something Campbell was not getting) He’s done WELL at managing the game and doing what a good backup should. I’m ecstatic about Collins play BUT as a backup and hope he continues…………. Right up to the point when he can hand it back over to Campbell (this season or next).

OH - and let's not take anything away from the Defense - that has help Collins some too.

[hail2skins]

"No mob" is questionable to say the least..

It all goes hand in hand.. good running = good throwing.. and the added plus of NO turn overs (thank you TC). JC is going to learn and be a great QB, but we all know that JC didn't give this team the confidence it needed to win right now, and I really find it pathetic that some of you just can't admit that... no matter how well TC does.Since we seem to be tossing this "pathetic" comment around, your cry that it is all Collins is pathetic. You seem to attribute the team's success to Collins alone and that is with a narrow vision. You don't consider other factors when discussing the success of the team and only mention it when someone else brings it up. It's always Collins. I'd like to see Collins operate with no running game and a always changing offensive line week in and out. JC's mobility kept a lot of plays alive for us this season. I'd like to see Collins do that as well. As for now, he doing what a backup QB should do.

[hail2skins]

There are a few other factors that you haven't considered -
First some timely luck (reference discussions on Moss ability to make those "50/50" catches) AND Collins has benefited from an O-Line that seems to be beginning to jell some. He’s getting some TIME to make those good decisions. (Something Campbell was not getting) He’s done WELL at managing the game and doing what a good backup should. I’m ecstatic about Collins play BUT as a backup and hope he continues…………. Right up to the point when he can hand it back over to Campbell (this season or next).

OH - and let's not take anything away from the Defense - that has help Collins some too.
C'mon Patrick, there's no one else on the field but Collins. :D

[CNYSkinFan]

There are a few other factors that you haven't considered -
First some timely luck (reference discussions on Moss ability to make those "50/50" catches) AND Collins has benefited from an O-Line that seems to be beginning to jell some. He’s getting some TIME to make those good decisions. (Something Campbell was not getting) He’s done WELL at managing the game and doing what a good backup should. I’m ecstatic about Collins play BUT as a backup and hope he continues…………. Right up to the point when he can hand it back over to Campbell (this season or next).

OH - and let's not take anything away from the Defense - that has help Collins some too.
well according to Todd Collins Blog (http://toddcoll15.blogspot.com/) he is calling the defensive plays too. :)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

well according to Todd Collins Blog (http://toddcoll15.blogspot.com/) he is calling the defensive plays too. :)

Judging by how much pressure there was in the first half, this makes a lot of sense now. Thanks for the info.

[James F. Quinn]

People with sweet teeth, see your local grocer's shelves. I agree with Shally. When it ain't broke don't fix it. Confidence keeps teams in games. The results say TC gives the team confidence (could have broken when the TD call was overruled, and a TD after the 12 man call). If available use TC throughout instead of a gimpy JC.

If you want a chuckle, check the etymology of poppycock.

[James F. Quinn]

I also was the Assistant GM for the Jets for 2 seasons(The Dbrickshaw pick was over my obejctions), I had a hall of fame career in the Canadian football league as backup Moose handler and briefly replaced Dennis Miller in the MNF booth until my unfortunate comments about the Dutch.

Sooo...Akhhorus is really Ken Beatrice?

Yawr Next!

[hessy36]

There are a few other factors that you haven't considered -
First some timely luck (reference discussions on Moss ability to make those "50/50" catches) AND Collins has benefited from an O-Line that seems to be beginning to jell some. He’s getting some TIME to make those good decisions. (Something Campbell was not getting) He’s done WELL at managing the game and doing what a good backup should. I’m ecstatic about Collins play BUT as a backup and hope he continues…………. Right up to the point when he can hand it back over to Campbell (this season or next).

OH - and let's not take anything away from the Defense - that has help Collins some too.

Collins runs this offense better than JC, period. I can only hope he gets into the playoffs and more. The thought of losing to Dallas makes me sick more than EVER before. A win this time will mean more to this team than anything I can remember and if Collins can get us there, God Bless Him!

[Hr fan]

If you want a chuckle, check the etymology of poppycock.

Thanks, it was a lol!

[GWBlitzST]

I can't imagine what our squad would look like with Randy Thomas blocking right now. And yes I expected us to lose that game once we fell back into the cover 2. Anyone saying Minnesota is such a great team should watch their games, they take advantage of terrible teams with mismatches up front, but are TOTALLY one dimensional, moreso than any team we would play in the playoffs. Jackson is a terrible quarterback, just terrible.

[morty55]

I give this post a 2.0...

..go get a blog

[hail2skins]

I give this post a 2.0...

..go get a blogIf you're not going to contribute to the thread, then don't post in it.