Williams Has No Guarantee

[SellerDoor45]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Considering our owner, all signs point to Cowher being the next Pres. and Coach. He lives in NC which is very close to Northern VA.

[smoak]

I'll take a bet with anyone that Coweher is NOT the next coach.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Considering our owner, all signs point to Cowher being the next Pres. and Coach. He lives in NC which is very close to Northern VA.

If we do hire the "Chin".......I think GW will take his money and leave to miami to coach for the 'Phins.

[SellerDoor45]

Sorry that should read 'GAURANTEE', mods a little help with the misspelling?

[greatest2]

I'll take a bet with anyone that Coweher is NOT the next coach.

i with you smoke. i'll even give 2 to 1 odds. no way cowher is in dc.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Cowher will not be in DC, but I also highly doubt Williams gets the Miami job.

[Hr fan]

I'll take a bet with anyone that Coweher is NOT the next coach.

I agree. Cowher would never take the job with Vinnie being around, and Danny loves Vinnie. As far as GW, he has a guarantee of $1M, and to Danny that is chump change.

[bigcmr]

What needs to be done is bring in a GM. Then look for a coach who's system will fit good with the players we have. Do the players we have fit Cowers system?

[Kanman21]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Considering our owner, all signs point to Cowher being the next Pres. and Coach. He lives in NC which is very close to Northern VA.


Also, North Carolina isn't close at all to Northern Virginia. A good 4 or 5 hour drive at the least.

I can't forsee him coming here though. This would force the team to rebuild completely and we would be bad for the next couple of years. Better to give it to someone in-house.

[smave]

so supposevly we have interest in Briggs AND Berrian

[Red Bear]

I agree. Cowher would never take the job with Vinnie being around, and Danny loves Vinnie. As far as GW, he has a guarantee of $1M, and to Danny that is chump change.

ummm, are you even reading the thread or the link? GW does NOT have a guarantee of a million bucks

[greatest2]

i know the million dollar thing is wrong and gregg doesn't hae it in his contract, but i don't think it matters. snyder going to hire who he wanna hire, and a million dollar payment probably doesn't even enter his mind with the redskins practically printing money for him

[shally]

either way, pass on williams..

[SellerDoor45]

I'll take a bet with anyone that Coweher is NOT the next coach.

I'll take that bet.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/01/the_case_for_cowher.html

Exert from J La:
"But I spoke to a source who knows Cerrato well who said he believes it will be Bill Cowher. He thinks that Cowher will get the keys to the kingdom and become the first $10-million coach, or in that range. "He's going to want the power Parcells had in Dallas," the source said. "Cowher's going to want to shop for the groceries. He lives in North Carolina, that keeps him pretty close to his home. I think that's where this thing is going."

Typical Snyder. Saw it from miles away.

[SellerDoor45]

And North Carolina is close when your making $10 mil and can take a private jet back and forth.

[bigcmr]

I'll take that bet.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/01/the_case_for_cowher.html

Exert from J La:
"But I spoke to a source who knows Cerrato well who said he believes it will be Bill Cowher. He thinks that Cowher will get the keys to the kingdom and become the first $10-million coach, or in that range. "He's going to want the power Parcells had in Dallas," the source said. "Cowher's going to want to shop for the groceries. He lives in North Carolina, that keeps him pretty close to his home. I think that's where this thing is going."

Typical Snyder. Saw it from miles away.

Here we go again the new three ring cirucs. Snyder, Vinny, and the new high payed coach.

[Moe]

And North Carolina is close when your making $10 mil and can take a private jet back and forth.

Flying commercial, Dulles to Raleigh is maybe a 40 minute flight. If I recall, Cowher built quite a spread down there so maybe Ashburn to his backyard is only 45 minutes ;)

[shally]

Flying commercial, Dulles to Raleigh is maybe a 40 minute flight. If I recall, Cowher built quite a spread down there so maybe Ashburn to his backyard is only 45 minutes ;)


i think the situation and how much snyder really wants him will determine things for cowher.. he certainly would get the large stage

[shally]

Here we go again the new three ring cirucs. Snyder, Vinny, and the new high payed coach.


i will be utterly amazed if we do things any other way..

what he should do is get scott pioli on the phone and offer him whatever it takes to get him as GM and team president.. and then get out of the way

[Red Bear]

i will be utterly amazed if we do things any other way..

what he should do is get scott pioli on the phone and offer him whatever it takes to get him as GM and team president.. and then get out of the way

i get the since that not even dan snyders checkbook can pry pioli away from New England. he is in a good situation up there, why would he want to leave?

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

LOL, man the offseason is NEVER boring in redskins land......

[ChapelHillMatt]

This is a situation that should be so easy, I understand people are skeptical of Williams as HC but he had to learn a thing or two under Gibbs over the last 4 years.

You promote Gregg to HC, Promote Blache to DC, and let Al run the offense. No more associate HC garbage, let everyone have a compartment they are in charge of.

Redskins will probably mess it up though.

[SellerDoor45]

Charlie Casserly just said on Washington Post Live that he spoke to Cowher this morning and that he is definatly NOT coming back to coaching next year. Hopefully this is true, but I have heard things like this before (Saban, Petrino, ect.)

[Syllable]

If Williams stays, we may have a 10-12 win season. With Cowher, the players will be disgruntled and Cowher will of course rebuild this team with his own players.

[syphy]

I'd like to see Russ Grimm or Mike Singletary as our next coach.

[hail2skins]

Charlie Casserly just said on Washington Post Live that he spoke to Cowher this morning and that he is definatly NOT coming back to coaching next year. Hopefully this is true, but I have heard things like this before (Saban, Petrino, ect.)Several people have said it since Gibbs announcement, so I don't know how all signs can point to him.

[Syllable]

Several people have said it since Gibbs announcement, so I don't know how all signs can point to him.

Because who else? No one else has enough experience or commands enough respect to handle the FO, not to mention this forum and other people seem to have a deep seated hatred for GW.

[akhhorus]

Because who else? No one else has enough experience or commands enough respect to handle the FO, not to mention this forum and other people seem to have a deep seated hatred for GW.

Besides my hatred for Williams, he was a disaster in his time as a Head Coach. They need to get a guy who has experience, and frankly Cowher is the best of the bunch out there.

[JasonCampbell]

I'm still hesitant on bringing in Cowher because he already got the ring. How much desire will he have.

The one nice thing about promoting GW to HC is the fact this is his last chance to be a HC in the NFL. If he flounders again, there won't be anyone calling him even if he goes back to coordinator and does well again. He'll have the desire to do well.

[silverspring]

Charlie Casserly just said on Washington Post Live that he spoke to Cowher this morning and that he is definatly NOT coming back to coaching next year. Hopefully this is true, but I have heard things like this before (Saban, Petrino, ect.)

I hope that is true, but if i were in cowher's position and knew that i was about to be catered to by the owner who has the loosest purse strings i sure would play hard to get too.

[silverspring]

They need to get a guy who has experience, and frankly Cowher is the best of the bunch out there.

Question for those nfl history buffs. How many coaches have won superbowls at multiple franchises?

[Redskin006]

Besides my hatred for Williams, he was a disaster in his time as a Head Coach. They need to get a guy who has experience, and frankly Cowher is the best of the bunch out there.

I absolutely agree. Cowher is a Parcells type of guy and its his way or no way. He is proven and will consistently take our team to the playoffs. I hope that some way some how he becomes our next coach.

[Farmer Ted]

Question for those nfl history buffs. How many coaches have won superbowls at multiple franchises?

Shula lost one in Baltimore, and won two in Miami, and Holmgren has gone to the super bowl with two teams (winning 1 and losing 1 in GB), too, but he lost in Seattle. I think that's the closest you're going to find. Oh, wait, Parcells won two super bowls with the Giants, and then won all those titles in Dallas...

[akhhorus]

Question for those nfl history buffs. How many coaches have won superbowls at multiple franchises?

So, since no one's won superbowls with multiple franchises, we shouldn't hire the clearly better coach?

[NCskinsfanatic]

I think it'll probably be Gdub but only if Cowher really isn't ready to return. You got to think Danny would atleast be interested. If not and he is simply trying to satisfy the process according to the rules then he has indeed changed.

[silverspring]

So, since no one's won superbowls with multiple franchises, we shouldn't hire the clearly better coach?

Strictly curiousity.

But admittedly, the reason i am not so excited about cowher is he has already done it and did it for so long that it is hard for me to believe he still has the drive and passion. i think he really seemed to show the i already have my ring attitude now i can rest on my laurels last year. I would rather have an up and coming guy. I really like the idea of grimm.

Although if we don't have a gm I can see how having a strong willed controlling coach like cowher would be good to balance out the snyder, cerrato team. I also feel like the redskins are a team with a deep tradition of it's own and it is hard to bring a guy like cowher in, who already (to me at least) represents the tradition of the steelers.

[shally]

So, since no one's won superbowls with multiple franchises, we shouldn't hire the clearly better coach?


cowher is the ONLY one who has the brass to back vinnie and snyder down.
you think williams does ? no way. saunders ? no way.. a young guy like garrett or frazier ??? ridiculous..

cowher is the only guy who can save snyder from himself and the dreaded "jerruh jones" syndrome

[JasonCampbell]

cowher is the ONLY one who has the brass to back vinnie and snyder down.
you think williams does ? no way. saunders ? no way.. a young guy like garrett or frazier ??? ridiculous..

cowher is the only guy who can save snyder from himself and the dreaded "jerruh jones" syndrome

Did Schotty have the brass to back Vinny and Snyder down? How'd that end.

I really really hope Snyder learned from Gibbs, because if he didn't, I think we're in a lose/lose situation.

[Redskin-4-life]

As rumors of HC replacement begin to swirl, it seems that Jason Garrett name has been thrown out there. I doubt the team will go this direction, because of another Dallas OC that was hired in the past "Norv Turner"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3186258#redskinscandidates

[shally]

Did Schotty have the brass to back Vinny and Snyder down? How'd that end.

I really really hope Snyder learned from Gibbs, because if he didn't, I think we're in a lose/lose situation.


yes shotty did.. but in the end snyder shot himself in the foot. and how did the next coach turn out with vinnie and snyder running the front office ?

i think there are very few good options other than GM first, then coach.. if snyder has rejected that option, then the ONLY reasonable option is cowher because i do not want snyder and vinnie running personnel.. it is that simple

[3Taylor6]

if we do hire an off or def coordinator as our next coach i would rather it be a def cooridinator...i feel like its harder for a team to learn a new offense than defense.

[shally]

As rumors of HC replacement begin to swirl, it seems that Jason Garrett name has been thrown out there. I doubt the team will go this direction, because of another Dallas OC that was hired in the past "Norv Turner"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3186258#redskinscandidates

he does have that strike against him.. but if he is the best man, go get him anyway

[shally]

if we do hire an off or def coordinator as our next coach i would rather it be a def cooridinator...i feel like its harder for a team to learn a new offense than defense.

then who is the OC under that scenario ? and that means that campbell gets another OC (is that 6 or 7 ??)

[akhhorus]

Strictly curiousity.

But admittedly, the reason i am not so excited about cowher is he has already done it and did it for so long that it is hard for me to believe he still has the drive and passion. i think he really seemed to show the i already have my ring attitude now i can rest on my laurels last year. I would rather have an up and coming guy. I really like the idea of grimm.

Although if we don't have a gm I can see how having a strong willed controlling coach like cowher would be good to balance out the snyder, cerrato team. I also feel like the redskins are a team with a deep tradition of it's own and it is hard to bring a guy like cowher in, who already (to me at least) represents the tradition of the steelers.

What was in it for Gibbs to come back?

As i said earlier today: DC is another mountain for him to climb. If he came to DC and build the Skins into a perennial contender-maybe a super bowl appearence or two-he would be in the discussion of 10 greatest coaches ever.

[shally]

What was in it for Gibbs to come back?

As i said earlier today: DC is another mountain for him to climb. If he came to DC and build the Skins into a perennial contender-maybe a super bowl appearence or two-he would be in the discussion of 10 greatest coaches ever.


after the hash gibbs made of the qb situation in his last presser it was the only possible outcome.. that was the reason for his hedge i think..

but you think TC is going to re sign if AS is no longer OC ? we are locked into JC then

[hogs86]

I wonder what are the chances that the Redskins would hire a NFL coach that may be on his the way out for another team? Kind of like how tampa did for John Gruden.

[shally]

I wonder what are the chances that the Redskins would hire a NFL coach that may be on his the way out for another team? Kind of like how tampa did for Jon Gruden.

other than jeff fisher, i am not sure of anyone i would take who is still coaching right now and who was onthe hot seat (fisher is no longer at risk anyway)

[silverspring]

What was in it for Gibbs to come back?

And look how that turned out. Although i think the circumstances are pretty different. I don't think cowher is a horrible choice i am just not a fan.

[silverspring]

after the hash gibbs made of the qb situation in his last presser it was the only possible outcome.. that was the reason for his hedge i think..

but you think TC is going to re sign if AS is no longer OC ? we are locked into JC then

Todd Collins staying or leaving should have no influence whatsoever on the future of the redskins. He is 37 years old. He is not the future, if JC isn't than collins would still only be a stop gap.

[hogs86]

other than jeff fisher, i am not sure of anyone i would take who is still coaching right now and who was onthe hot seat (fisher is no longer at risk anyway)

Thats funny you said Jeff Fisher. He and Williams are best friends and have coach together.

[The_Sonny_Of_Sammy]

Mr. Snyder said today, "If ain't broke, don't fix it." Let Williams be head coach/def. coord. and Al keep running the offense.

[skinsfan36]

Mr. Snyder said today, "If ain't broke, don't fix it." Let Williams be head coach/def. coord. and Al keep running the offense.

the front office structure is broken someone call floyd reese we need a gm!

[SkinsfaninNJ]

other than jeff fisher, i am not sure of anyone i would take who is still coaching right now and who was onthe hot seat (fisher is no longer at risk anyway)

You know (or at least I think you have read my posts saying so) Fisher is my dream coach. Unfortunate that he just signed an extension.

[Smiley]

Gregg Williams deserves the head coaching job for the Washington Redskins. Some will base their argument on his past performance as the Bills coach and they make a valid point, he wasn't successful. Neither was Bellichek (sp?). I think Gregg has learned a lot from Joe over the past four years. This guy has my vote. Hopefully Al will stay on as OC as well. we have some momentum going, let's continue with the strategy. Imagine if our OL would have stayed healthy this year (not that it was choice)? Now we can add some depth to it and finally get that DE we've been waiting for (no offense Daniels) over the past couple of seasons. We just need to get lucky with being healthy. Hail!!!

[Biggie]

The fact that it took three quarters of a season for Williams to shift away from an ineffective strategy, the fact that it takes him far too long to adjust in-game, and the fact that he seems to play clear favorites with players are all offputting when it comes to naming Triple G as the next head coach. I'd rather not have an arrogant ***CENSORED BY SPENCE***, thanks.

[akhhorus]

Gregg Williams deserves the head coaching job for the Washington Redskins. Some will base their argument on his past performance as the Bills coach and they make a valid point, he wasn't successful. Neither was Bellichek (sp?). I think Gregg has learned a lot from Joe over the past four years. This guy has my vote. Hopefully Al will stay on as OC as well. we have some momentum going, let's continue with the strategy. Imagine if our OL would have stayed healthy this year (not that it was choice)? Now we can add some depth to it and finally get that DE we've been waiting for (no offense Daniels) over the past couple of seasons. We just need to get lucky with being healthy. Hail!!!

Gregg Williams in Buffalo: 17-31
Belichek: 36-44 1 playoff appearance(1 playoff win).

Frankly, the only reason to consider Williams is that he represents continuity. He hasn't earned it with his time here, nor factoring in his time as a head coach.

[ChapelHillMatt]

How can he improve those numbers if he isn't given another chance? It didn't work out the first time, that's obvious but he had to learn something from Gibbs in his time here. He's been a great coordinator for us, will he be a good coach? Not sure but I think he's the best option.

[Biggie]

How can he improve those numbers if he isn't given another chance? It didn't work out the first time, that's obvious but he had to learn something from Gibbs in his time here. He's been a great coordinator for us, will he be a good coach? Not sure but I think he's the best option.
Well, Steve Spurrier was 12-20 as a head coach in the NFL. Maybe we should give him another chance to improve those numbers?

Sorry, but that's just not a solid rationale for hiring a head coach.

[KidBroSweets]

Yeah to be honest, the ONLY hire that makes sense here is Gregg. Like Matt said, he HAD to of learned alot under Joe as well as his previous stint in Buffalo. This is who the players want as well. They seem to really love Gregg. Also, Gregg wouldnt be going to Miami anyways. Bill is hiring one of the Dallas boys, Im convinced.

If we hired Cowher then we're essentially just starting over. Also, as we've heard repeatedly, he's taking 2 years off.

Pete Carroll is a college coach and I dont want to go back there again even though I like Pete and he at least has some experience. Plus, I seriously doubt he leaves USC.

Singletary and Ryan dont make sense at all. Neither one is any better than Gregg IMO.

Bottom line is....Gregg is the only one that makes sense. He's our next head coach. Im convinced.

[KidBroSweets]

Well, Steve Spurrier was 12-20 as a head coach in the NFL. Maybe we should give him another chance to improve those numbers?

Sorry, but that's just not a solid rationale for hiring a head coach.

Are you seriously comparing Spurrier and Gregg Williams?!?! Gregg knows the NFL, Steve doesnt. Youre comparing apples and oranges.

[akhhorus]

How can he improve those numbers if he isn't given another chance?

In an infinite time line, any coach will win the Super Bowl. Except for Norv maybe.

It didn't work out the first time, that's obvious but he had to learn something from Gibbs in his time here.

Considering how much autonomy he's had in DC, I don't know if he's learned anything.

He's been a great coordinator for us, will he be a good coach? Not sure but I think he's the best option.

He's been an inconsistent coordinator for us. Considering his previous stint as a HC, we can do better. Much better.

[akhhorus]

Are you seriously comparing Spurrier and Gregg Williams?!?! Gregg knows the NFL, Steve doesnt. Youre comparing apples and oranges.

And neither knows how to be an NFL head coach.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Well, Steve Spurrier was 12-20 as a head coach in the NFL. Maybe we should give him another chance to improve those numbers?

Sorry, but that's just not a solid rationale for hiring a head coach.

Tell me you just didn't make that comparison. Apples and oranges, by that logic Belichick wouldn't have been given another chance.

Not saying Gregg is another Belichick but I do think he's earned his shot at the job, he's had our defenses finish in the top 10 3 of the 4 years here. He's the best choice.

If we go get someone else then we have to start completely over and all the work we've done the last 4 years will have been wasted.

[Dexter72]

Ironically, I think in Danny's World, Williams' qualifications/body of work are not all that important. If he really has butted heads a lot with Snyder, he has no chance. If he's on decent terms with him, I think he's all set. My guess is that the whole ST tragedy and subsequent playoff run brought them together and bridged some gaps and he'll get the job, albeit with a short leash.

Dan and Vinny are our GM and they aren't giving an inch of power to Cowher or anyone else anytime soon (see the "If it aint broke, don't fix it" quote from today). Read the article about Danny formulating a trade for Briggs over drinks and needing to go tell Gibbs...Pretty clear to me that even HOF Joe probably had a lot more "help" on personnel decisions than he wanted. Cowher won't touch it...and I doubt he ever even gets the chance to.

[Biggie]

Tell me you just didn't make that comparison. Apples and oranges, by that logic Belichick wouldn't have been given another chance.
I was only pointing out the flaw in your logic. And yes, I did make the comparison.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I was only pointing out the flaw in your logic. And yes, I did make the comparison.

Well it was a poor one.

Gregg is better equipped to be successful his 2nd time through, he might just not be head coach material but none of us know that right now. Failing the 1st time doesn't mean he'll fail the 2nd time. This isn't a college coach we are hiring that doesn't know what it takes to succeed in this league. He's been around a Hall of Famer for 4 years, he had to of learned something.

Besides, does everyone really want to start over after all we've been through? Seriously?

[shally]

Tell me you just didn't make that comparison. Apples and oranges, by that logic Belichick wouldn't have been given another chance.

Not saying Gregg is another Belichick but I do think he's earned his shot at the job, he's had our defenses finish in the top 10 3 of the 4 years here. He's the best choice.

If we go get someone else then we have to start completely over and all the work we've done the last 4 years will have been wasted.

the difference between belichick and GW (aside from ability as a coach) is that BB had the best front office situation imaginable with the pats..GW ? not..

[greatest2]

anybody else think with all the players (including our franchise QB on NFL LIVE) have publically backed gw. not just the usual, "yea he is a good guy, we'll see" crap. they have gone beyond that to say they want him as coach and give reasons, much like they did in professing there love for gibbs as coach. I think if we don't go GW your going to have an uprising from the players. while this isn't a sole reason to pick someone, it should be taken into account what the players want, and what they think they can do with what they got.

[ChapelHillMatt]

the difference between belichick and GW (aside from ability as a coach) is that BB had the best front office situation imaginable with the pats..GW ? not..

Don't disagree but I fail to see how that should keep Gregg from getting the job.

[ChapelHillMatt]

anybody else think with all the players (including our franchise QB on NFL LIVE) have publically backed gw. not just the usual, "yea he is a good guy, we'll see" crap. they have gone beyond that to say they want him as coach and give reasons, much like they did in professing there love for gibbs as coach. I think if we don't go GW your going to have an uprising from the players. while this isn't a sole reason to pick someone, it should be taken into account what the players want, and what they think they can do with what they got.

Even Randle El endorsed him over Cowher for continuity purposes.

[greatest2]

Even Randle El endorsed him over Cowher for continuity purposes.

yup, like i said all the players have spoken beyond what they should to back GW. they really want him, i think if we don't hire him we get uprising. I want GW anyway. You maintain Continuity, the guy always had the x's and o's and you gotta believe he learned something about leadership and motivation by watching gibbs. it also saunders to stay and be free. I think it is the perfect match as a coach...

[ChapelHillMatt]

My favorite part about hiring Gregg isn't about what I think about Gregg himself. I think he would do fine but what I really want is to build off of what Joe Gibbs has put in place and to finally have a Head Coach, a defensive coordinator, and an offensive coordinator. I don't want anymore of this stuff where the assistant coaches are associate head coaches. I want a Head Coach and then I want coordinators.

[Biggie]

Well it was a poor one.

Gregg is better equipped to be successful his 2nd time through, he might just not be head coach material but none of us know that right now. Failing the 1st time doesn't mean he'll fail the 2nd time. This isn't a college coach we are hiring that doesn't know what it takes to succeed in this league. He's been around a Hall of Famer for 4 years, he had to of learned something.

Besides, does everyone really want to start over after all we've been through? Seriously?
Going off of what I have seen from Gregg Williams as a coordinator here for the last four years, he is poor at adjusting, overconfident in himself and his schemes, and worst of all, arrogant. I do not want to see him as our next head coach, and to be quite honest, half of this roster might not be here in a couple of years (after age, contracts, and free agency have done their work).

[joethefan]

cowher is the ONLY one who has the brass to back vinnie and snyder down.
you think williams does ? no way. saunders ? no way.. a young guy like garrett or frazier ??? ridiculous..

cowher is the only guy who can save snyder from himself and the dreaded "jerruh jones" syndrome

shally although I'm not on the 100% cowher band I truley understand what you mean.

[akhhorus]

Well it was a poor one.

Gregg is better equipped to be successful his 2nd time through, he might just not be head coach material but none of us know that right now. Failing the 1st time doesn't mean he'll fail the 2nd time. This isn't a college coach we are hiring that doesn't know what it takes to succeed in this league. He's been around a Hall of Famer for 4 years, he had to of learned something.

Besides, does everyone really want to start over after all we've been through? Seriously?

If the plan you followed led you to this, what good is the plan?

Even Randle El endorsed him over Cowher for continuity purposes.

What do you expect ANY player to say with the possibility of Williams becoming coach still out there?

[hail2skins]

For those of you who think Snyder is going to give total control to someone else, even Cowher, you're crazy. In that past, he meddled and did it all the time.

Then he surrended control to Marty, who made mistakes, but got the team to play strong towards the end of the season. Guess what, Marty was gone because he wouldn't give control back to Snyder.

Then we get SS, who didn't care about control or anything else for the matter. Snyder still had the control.

Now, enter the HOF coach Joe Gibbs who returns to Washington as team president and head coach. What did Gibbs do, he embraced and spoiled Snyder and made him a part of the decision process. Not only did he approve and sign checks, he had input. He still had some control. This was Gibbs so of course he got what he wanted because of his past.

Cowher has no history with the Redskins like Gibbs does. Do you think Snyder will surrender what Gibbs gave him to another coach. One who had no history or ties to the organization. C'mon.

[Keino]

Mike, I think he would. I think he would try to keep the front-office structure in place, as-is with Cowher. It keeps him involved, but has a football guy/HC involved in the decision making process when it comes to player acquisition and roster management.

I think Danny has grown some in this area. Not to the point where he will take himself out of it completely, because he sees himself in the mold of Jerry Jones. The difference being that Jones is/was a football guy.

So, total control? No I don't think he gives that to Cowher, but could see him giving him the role that Gibbs had. Gibbs had final say, but not total control.

[hail2skins]

Mike, I think he would. I think he would try to keep the front-office structure in place, as-is with Cowher. It keeps him involved, but has a football guy/HC involved in the decision making process when it comes to player acquisition and roster management.

I think Danny has grown some in this area. Not to the point where he will take himself out of it completely, because he sees himself in the mold of Jerry Jones. The difference being that Jones is/was a football guy.

So, total control? No I don't think he gives that to Cowher, but could see him giving him the role that Gibbs had. Gibbs had final say, but not total control.I don't know. We'll see though. It was funny how Fox 5 took part of the presser. They thought it was some PR stuff for Danny from Gibbs. Could be trying to appeal to someone outside the organization.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Mike, I think he would. I think he would try to keep the front-office structure in place, as-is with Cowher. It keeps him involved, but has a football guy/HC involved in the decision making process when it comes to player acquisition and roster management.

I think Danny has grown some in this area. Not to the point where he will take himself out of it completely, because he sees himself in the mold of Jerry Jones. The difference being that Jones is/was a football guy.

So, total control? No I don't think he gives that to Cowher, but could see him giving him the role that Gibbs had. Gibbs had final say, but not total control.

The thing you have to keep in mind is Snyder has owned the team for 8 years and 4 of those have been with Gibbs. I don't think anyone knows for sure how Snyder is going to operate after Gibbs. Its unfair to use pre-Gibbs against him since Snyder even acknowledges that he made mistakes. But you can't necessarily say he will operate the same way with the next guy either because Gibbs and his relationship with Snyder was unique.

Any speculation as to how Snyder is going to operate now, is just that, speculation.

[Redskin4Life]

The thing you have to keep in mind is Snyder has owned the team for 8 years and 4 of those have been with Gibbs. I don't think anyone knows for sure how Snyder is going to operate after Gibbs. Its unfair to use pre-Gibbs against him since Snyder even acknowledges that he made mistakes. But you can't necessarily say he will operate the same way with the next guy either because Gibbs and his relationship with Snyder was unique.

Any speculation as to how Snyder is going to operate now, is just that, speculation.
And can you blame Snyder for acting the way he did with the coaches he had? I mean none of them have been successful on the field....

[Smiley]

Gregg has one the best defenses in the NFL this year. 3 out of 4 years he has had one of the best defenses in the NFL. Y'all really want to start from scratch...teach Jason a new offense? Again? Teach a new defense? Again? Are you kidding me?!!! Why would you not give Gregg an opportunity to coach this team? That's if he'll take it..I would assume he would want some control over who plays on his team. Work with him just as we worked with Joe. I don't want to start over...this team is a player or two away. We just need a semi-healthy season. Good grief.

[Keino]

Because he was a significant reason why we Stunk last year (06) and why we lost leads this year. His fascination with running a soft cover 2 ill suited to this team's personnel when he promised attacking defenses coupled with his inability to adjust to what teams have run successfully against him is reason Numero Uno why I don't want Gregg Williams. His refusal to address the Defensive line is reason Numero Dos.

Why does not hiring Williams mean a new offense for Campbell to learn? I think these are mutually exclusive concepts, and has more to do with whether or not Saunders is retained. Certainly not a guarantee if Williams is hired.

[hail2skins]

Because he was a significant reason why we Stunk last year (06) and why we lost leads this year. His fascination with running a soft cover 2 ill suited to this team's personnel when he promised attacking defenses coupled with his inability to adjust to what teams have run successfully against him is reason Numero Uno why I don't want Gregg Williams. His refusal to address the Defensive line is reason Numero Dos.

Why does not hiring Williams mean a new offense for Campbell to learn? I think these are mutually exclusive concepts, and has more to do with whether or not Saunders is retained. Certainly not a guarantee if Williams is hired.I think you have to blame the offense for some of those collapses as well. They kept the defense on the field with 3 and outs late in games trying to sit on 10 and 14 point leads. Teams can score too fast in the league today and most of the rules are made to aid the offense in scoring.

I don't think this thing needs to be blown up and I think that's exactly what happens if they go outside. I'm willing to give GW as 2nd chance as head coach. Shoot, if Norv can get several, GW at least deserves one.

[Smiley]

With all those blown leads..we still made the playoffs and our defense is ranked in the top 10. We lost our best player on the team, our #1 CB and a starting LB. ...and still made the playoffs! Now is the time to tweak..not start from scratch. The only change we need to make in this organization is to promote the DC to HC....and promote the LB Coach to DC. Let Al keep his control over the offense (he had that under Joe) and Gregg will oversee both sides of the ball. We're an offensive linemen, De and a WR away. We need to get add'l depth and I think we're set. This is the 1st time we've had any continuity on this team in the last 8 years......anyone else than Gregg Williams will be absurd.

[Smiley]

P.S. there were a lot of reasons we stunk last year, defense included. We didn't stink this year.

[smoak]

I'll take that bet.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/01/the_case_for_cowher.html

Exert from J La:
"But I spoke to a source who knows Cerrato well who said he believes it will be Bill Cowher. He thinks that Cowher will get the keys to the kingdom and become the first $10-million coach, or in that range. "He's going to want the power Parcells had in Dallas," the source said. "Cowher's going to want to shop for the groceries. He lives in North Carolina, that keeps him pretty close to his home. I think that's where this thing is going."

Typical Snyder. Saw it from miles away.

I'm sticking with my stance... So do you want an avatar bet or something richer?

[smoak]

Charlie Casserly just said on Washington Post Live that he spoke to Cowher this morning and that he is definatly NOT coming back to coaching next year. Hopefully this is true, but I have heard things like this before (Saban, Petrino, ect.)

I will be floored and sicked if it is Cowher. Snyder went out of his way to discuss how important continuity is for this team.

[Keino]

I think you have to blame the offense for some of those collapses as well. They kept the defense on the field with 3 and outs late in games trying to sit on 10 and 14 point leads. Teams can score too fast in the league today and most of the rules are made to aid the offense in scoring.

I don't think this thing needs to be blown up and I think that's exactly what happens if they go outside. I'm willing to give GW as 2nd chance as head coach. Shoot, if Norv can get several, GW at least deserves one.

Sure the Offense deserves some of the blame, but honestly, if you have a great defense, or even a good defense, a 10-14 point lead should be safe late in the game.

I don't agree with the idea that the team gets blown up by bringing someone from outside in.

I think retaining Saunders should be the main focus as it relates to continuity.

I'm all for GW getting a 2nd shot at head coach.....just not in Washington. I've seen enough from him to know that we will not win with him at the wheel driving our Porsche.

[CNYSkinFan]

Ok for the Gregg Williams supporters here is why I am not for re-hiring him

1.) The Defensive staff, system, and players can remain intact with the promotion of Greg Blache to DC. This should lead to continuity on that side of the ball. As much as possible with all the injuries we sustained.

2.) It is not a guarantee Saunders will stay if he is not HC and thus there could be a new system oin offense no matter what decision is made.

3.) There will be some change on the offensive side of things as Gibbs coaches like Bugel, Breaux, Burns, & Simmons are almost guaranteed to retire as well.

4.) The next coach will have to be involved in player acquisition in the evil triangle in the FO. That is a fact, it won't change.

5.) Williams is horrible in the player acquisiton department. Adam Archueletta is totally on him. His insistence on 3 starting corners to prove a point to Springs, and his willingness to use soft cover-2 despite the acquisition of speedy attacking players like McIntosh, Taylor, & Landry shows how stubborn he can be and that is not a good sign.

6.) The retention of Saunders may be just as much a hinderance to JC as a new system. I still contend he called a different game with collins in the game as he did with Campbell. He also may insist on resigning collins and Campbell will be looking over his shoulder the whole time he is here.

[Keino]

P.S. there were a lot of reasons we stunk last year, defense included. We didn't stink this year.


Most years, 9-7 does not get to the playoffs. No doubt about it, we stunk this year as well, just not as bad.

[Smiley]

No....the Dolphins stunk. The Bengals stunk. We were in every game but one. And the defense not being able to hold a lead? That's weak. Once we got leads this year our offense would go into hybernation. Late in the season we started to attack with a lead and we started to win those ballgames. If you're going to blame Gregg for Adam give him credit for Sean and Landry. We also have a middle LB that's pretty darn good.

[redskin_rich]

I will be floored and sicked if it is Cowher. Snyder went out of his way to discuss how important continuity is for this team.I guess I'm one of the minority that thinks continuity is not that big a deal in this case. A lot of the best players on this team are on the decline and a 40-50% roster turnover, to get younger and cheaper, wouldn't bother me. I really have doubts that anyone can get anymore out of the current team than Gibbs did.

Sure the Offense deserves some of the blame, but honestly, if you have a great defense, or even a good defense, a 10-14 point lead should be safe late in the game.

I don't agree with the idea that the team gets blown up by bringing someone from outside in.

I think retaining Saunders should be the main focus as it relates to continuity.

I'm all for GW getting a 2nd shot at head coach.....just not in Washington. I've seen enough from him to know that we will not win with him at the wheel driving our Porsche.
You really think whoever gets this team is inheriting a Porsche? Maybe one that needs work...

[CNYSkinFan]

No....the Dolphins stunk. The Bengals stunk. We were in every game but one. And the defense not being able to hold a lead? That's weak. Once we got leads this year our offense would go into hybernation. Late in the season we started to attack with a lead and we started to win those ballgames. If you're going to blame Gregg for Adam give him credit for Sean and Landry. We also have a middle LB that's pretty darn good.
Williams also gets blame for misusing his personel and insistence on not upgrading the defensive line.

Stats lie my friend. With a true top 10 defense you should be able to go into the 2nd half with a decent lead and be assured we would win. If you felt that way this year, good for you, I want whatever you were drinking. I sure didn't. I kept waiting for the big 3rd down pass that would bereak the game wide open....adn it came more often then not

[CNYSkinFan]

I guess I'm one of the minority that thinks continuity is not that big a deal in this case. A lot of the best players on this team are on the decline and a 40-50% roster turnover, to get younger and cheaper, wouldn't bother me. I really have doubts that anyone can get anymore out of the current team than Gibbs did.


You really think whoever gets this team is inheriting a Porsche? Maybe one that needs work...
well it is a porsche but it is 10 years old and has a few dents lol

And agreed about Gibbs. I do not think any coach will get the talent out of this group the way Gibbs did.

[Smiley]

Ok for the Gregg Williams supporters here is why I am not for re-hiring him

1.) The Defensive staff, system, and players can remain intact with the promotion of Greg Blache to DC. This should lead to continuity on that side of the ball. As much as possible with all the injuries we sustained.
1A) So if it Gregg Willaims doesn't run this defense to its best potential how would Blache do it? Isn't it HIS defense? That's like bringing Minny Mouse to the party without Mickey.

2.) It is not a guarantee Saunders will stay if he is not HC and thus there could be a new system oin offense no matter what decision is made.
2A) Give him atonomy and I think he'll stay, now he gets to put the pedal to the metal with HIS offense.

3.) There will be some change on the offensive side of things as Gibbs coaches like Bugel, Breaux, Burns, & Simmons are almost guaranteed to retire as well.
3A) Do we have a couple of assistants that learned from Boss Hogg and such?

4.) The next coach will have to be involved in player acquisition in the evil triangle in the FO. That is a fact, it won't change.
4A) Williams should have input just as Joe had on his players.

5.) Williams is horrible in the player acquisiton department. Adam Archueletta is totally on him. His insistence on 3 starting corners to prove a point to Springs, and his willingness to use soft cover-2 despite the acquisition of speedy attacking players like McIntosh, Taylor, & Landry shows how stubborn he can be and that is not a good sign.
5A) I'm glad my defensive coordinator is stubborn, matter of fact, I hope he's downright nasty.

6.) The retention of Saunders may be just as much a hinderance to JC as a new system. I still contend he called a different game with collins in the game as he did with Campbell. He also may insist on resigning collins and Campbell will be looking over his shoulder the whole time he is here.
6A) A competition at the QB? What?!!! I would suggest that JC learn the offense a little better.

[Smiley]

Williams also gets blame for misusing his personel and insistence on not upgrading the defensive line.

Stats lie my friend. With a true top 10 defense you should be able to go into the 2nd half with a decent lead and be assured we would win. If you felt that way this year, good for you, I want whatever you were drinking. I sure didn't. I kept waiting for the big 3rd down pass that would bereak the game wide open....adn it came more often then

If you were a defensive coordinator would you want allstars in every position? In the NFL there is this thing called the salary cap and you can't have allstars at every position. You have to pick and choose where your money is spent. I'm 100% positive if you asked Gregg at the beginning of this season if he wanted a top notch DE on the other side of Carter he would have said...no?

And you're going to pick the 3rd down % as a basis to say that we attacked when we got a lead? Let's look at 3rd and 4th QTR scoring in the first 8 games? That would be a better indication.

[Keino]

No....the Dolphins stunk. The Bengals stunk. We were in every game but one. And the defense not being able to hold a lead? That's weak. Once we got leads this year our offense would go into hybernation. Late in the season we started to attack with a lead and we started to win those ballgames. If you're going to blame Gregg for Adam give him credit for Sean and Landry. We also have a middle LB that's pretty darn good.

Im not going to engage in a debate about who is more responsible for giving up leads. Each time it was discussed ad nauseum and in each case, from my perspective, the defense was at least 50% responsible for it (more in most cases).

We ranked 16th in Sacks, 23rd in INTs, 18th in fumble recoveries.

And you're right, we have a great middle Line backer. Running him 20 yards down the middle of the field for a Cover 2 responsiblity when said player is 5'9 is simply assinine, yet Williams insisted on doing it.

[Keino]

You really think whoever gets this team is inheriting a Porsche? Maybe one that needs work...

Use whatever vehicle analogy you want to use. Bottomline is that I don't want Williams to get the keys.

In fact, I think Williams should be let go.

[CNYSkinFan]

1A) So if it Gregg Willaims doesn't run this defense to its best potential how would Blache do it? Isn't it HIS defense? That's like bringing Minny Mouse to the party without Mickey.

Because Blache would play the true 4-6 attacking defense that this team is built for and fnot switch like an addict to the cover 2.




2A) Give him atonomy and I think he'll stay, now he gets to put the pedal to the metal with HIS offense.

he left KC because he was passed over for the HC spot. I think he may leave here too.


3A) Do we have a couple of assistants that learned from Boss Hogg and such?

No...not that I know of.


4A) Williams should have input just as Joe had on his players.

Yeah...that is the problem


5A) I'm glad my defensive coordinator is stubborn, matter of fact, I hope he's downright nasty.

Yep those lack of adjustments really helpo us in the 4th quarter


6A) A competition at the QB? What?!!! I would suggest that JC learn the offense a little better.

Perhaps...the offense is flawed if it takes a QB ten years sitting on the bench to master it? And again you did not address my issue of playcalling. For example, with Collins Saunders called the RB screen more. Why did he not call that with Campbell? Are you telling me that Campbell does not know how to run a RB screen? Crapola

[CNYSkinFan]

Smiley could you please learn how to use the quote button when quotting posts...or at least bold your responses...your posts are becoming a mess and I don't know where my thoughts stop and your questions start

[CNYSkinFan]

If you were a defensive coordinator would you want allstars in every position? In the NFL there is this thing called the salary cap and you can't have allstars at every position. You have to pick and choose where your money is spent. I'm 100% positive if you asked Gregg at the beginning of this season if he wanted a top notch DE on the other side of Carter he would have said...no?

And you're going to pick the 3rd down % as a basis to say that we attacked when we got a lead? Let's look at 3rd and 4th QTR scoring in the first 8 games? That would be a better indication.

Greg Williams was asked about upgrading the defensive line and he said he rather upgrade the back 7 and that would make the line better. That flies in the face of all conventional wisdom.

as for the 2nd part of your post I have no idea what you are talking about. If you look at points given up by quarter with this defense, the 3rd and 4th quarter were miserable this year. Why...the offense adjusted and our defense did not, or got soft.

[dj_stouty]

Greg Williams was asked about upgrading the defensive line and he said he rather upgrade the back 7 and that would make the line better. That flies in the face of all conventional wisdom.

Did he recently say that since the season has ended...or is that just his overall opinion?

Either way, that philosphy sucks. Just another reason why Gregg should not be our Head Coach.

[CNYSkinFan]

Did he recently say that since the season has ended...or is that just his overall opinion?

Either way, that philosphy sucks. Just another reason why Gregg should not be our Head Coach.
he said it in the offseason last year (between 2006 -07). he basically said if the dbs can cover longer we will make more sacks on the dl or something stupid like that

[akhhorus]

I guess I'm one of the minority that thinks continuity is not that big a deal in this case. A lot of the best players on this team are on the decline and a 40-50% roster turnover, to get younger and cheaper, wouldn't bother me. I really have doubts that anyone can get anymore out of the current team than Gibbs did.


You really think whoever gets this team is inheriting a Porsche? Maybe one that needs work...

Agreed. The plan isn't working, we need a new one.

[redskin_rich]

Use whatever vehicle analogy you want to use. Bottomline is that I don't want Williams to get the keys.

In fact, I think Williams should be let go.You don't even want GW in the car. Kick his arse to the curb!

I agree but I think it's an either/or situation. Either GW becomes Head Coach or he is gone from the Redskins. I see promoting GW as an act of trying to milk another year or two out of what we have and what we would have is mediocrity.

Start anew now, instead of two years from now.

[shally]

You don't even want GW in the car. Kick his arse to the curb!

I agree but I think it's an either/or situation. Either GW becomes Head Coach or he is gone from the Redskins. I see promoting GW as an act of trying to milk another year or two out of what we have and what we would have is mediocrity.

Start anew now, instead of two years from now.

a 2 year fix is insanity.. we need to take the long view and that is why we need to go young

[dj_stouty]

he said it in the offseason last year (between 2006 -07). he basically said if the dbs can cover longer we will make more sacks on the dl or something stupid like that

Relying on "coverage sacks" is a crazy notion...especially if you face wide-open passing teams like the Eagles, Packers, Colts or Pats. They will spread em out so wide that someone is bound to be open. But assume you have a stud DE who can quickly get in the QB's head (ahem, Kearney) and hit him a few times, then you have a shot at making big plays in the backfield. GW has it backwards!

I haven't played the game outside of a handful of flag-football contests and even I know how important a defensive line is to the overall defense. To neglect and refuse to bring in big talent on the D-line is...well...negligent!

If GW isn't our next head coach, he will leave on bad terms. He thinks the job is automatically his. If we do bring someone in, I wouldn't mind seeing a defensive-minded guy so we can allow Al to continue to work with the offense. I liked what I saw during the 4-game stretch and I'd love to see Jason in that system as well. I always thought it was Joe who was holding Jason back. Gibbs probably meant well, but I could see Al letting the reigns go and giving Jason everything that playbook holds. Might as well test him now...as he is going into year 3. The development should already be there and its time to find out what we got.

[Redskin4Life]

Most years, 9-7 does not get to the playoffs. No doubt about it, we stunk this year as well, just not as bad.
Going back to the '97 season, a 9-7 or lower team has made the playoffs every year except for three. In fact, 20 teams made the playoffs during that span with a 9-7 record or lower and in some cases won the division that way. So it would be unfair for you to say that we stunk this year by your own definition.

[akhhorus]

You don't even want GW in the car. Kick his arse to the curb!

I agree but I think it's an either/or situation. Either GW becomes Head Coach or he is gone from the Redskins. I see promoting GW as an act of trying to milk another year or two out of what we have and what we would have is mediocrity.

Start anew now, instead of two years from now.

Exactly. If you're going to rebuild in two years anyways, might as well do it now.

[CNYSkinFan]

Did he recently say that since the season has ended...or is that just his overall opinion?

Either way, that philosphy sucks. Just another reason why Gregg should not be our Head Coach.
I am efforting to find the original quote but here is a blog at the time referencing it

Do you buy into Gregg Williams’ notion that the ‘Skins improved secondary will help create a better pass rush and more sacks, or does our front four still suck?

source (http://misterirrelevant.com/index.php/2007/09/07/break-out-the-kool-aid-its-redskins-season-preview-time/)

just so people aren't accusing us williams detractors of making it up

[akhhorus]

Going back to the '97 season, a 9-7 or lower team has made the playoffs every year except for three. In fact, 20 teams made the playoffs during that span with a 9-7 record or lower and in some cases won the division that way. So it would be unfair for you to say that we stunk this year by your own definition.

We had to win 4 in a row just to make it to 9-7. We stunk lol.

[CNYSkinFan]

Relying on "coverage sacks" is a crazy notion...especially if you face wide-open passing teams like the Eagles, Packers, Colts or Pats. They will spread em out so wide that someone is bound to be open. But assume you have a stud DE who can quickly get in the QB's head (ahem, Kearney) and hit him a few times, then you have a shot at making big plays in the backfield. GW has it backwards!

I haven't played the game outside of a handful of flag-football contests and even I know how important a defensive line is to the overall defense. To neglect and refuse to bring in big talent on the D-line is...well...negligent!

If GW isn't our next head coach, he will leave on bad terms. He thinks the job is automatically his. If we do bring someone in, I wouldn't mind seeing a defensive-minded guy so we can allow Al to continue to work with the offense. I liked what I saw during the 4-game stretch and I'd love to see Jason in that system as well. I always thought it was Joe who was holding Jason back. Gibbs probably meant well, but I could see Al letting the reigns go and giving Jason everything that playbook holds. Might as well test him now...as he is going into year 3. The development should already be there and its time to find out what we got.
I would be fine if Al ran the offense...but if he does I would want Collins not around. Collins is Al's more-talented Wuerffel. I can't help but think that Al wants Collins in so badly it will impede the progress JC NEEDS to make for this franchise to thrive.

[Smiley]

What? Did you watch the same games I watched?

We beat the Dolphins by 3 (defense allows 13) - Offense 2 INT 2 Fumbles
We beat the Iggles (defense held them to 12) - Offense 1 INT
We lose to the Giants (defense hold them to 17)
We beat Detroit (defense allows 3 points)
We lose to the Packers (defense hold them to 14)
We beat the Cards (defense hold them to 19)
We lose to Pats (debacle on both sides)
We beat Jets (defense allows 20)
We lose to the Iggles (we gave up 33..defenses fault...but if you were out of your self induced coma long enough you would remember our offense couldn't get drives going in the 4th Qtr)
We lose to Dallass (defense allows 28...you remember how that game ended)
We lose to Tampa (defense allows 19..but YOU know why we lost this one)
We lose to Bills (defense allows 17..you know why we lost this one?)
We beat Bears (defense allows 16)
We beat Giants (defense allows 10)
We beat Minny (defense allows 21)
We beat Dallass (you know)

We lose to Seattle (I'd take our defensive performance in that one and say we should have won that one)

Put the crack pipe down and get back on the wagon.

[Smiley]

..and we didn't stink. Last year we stunk. Hail!!

[Redskin4Life]

We had to win 4 in a row just to make it to 9-7. We stunk lol.
Now that's a whole different point that I won't disagree with. But Keino was saying that 9-7 teams don't usually make the playoffs and that's the reason we stink.

[akhhorus]

What? Did you watch the same games I watched?

We beat the Dolphins by 3 (defense allows 13) - Offense 2 INT 2 Fumbles

We let the worst offensive team in the league come back in the 4th quarter on us.

We beat the Iggles (defense held them to 12) - Offense 1 INT

A decent performance helped by McNabb overthrowing everyone.

We lose to the Giants (defense hold them to 17)

Great first half in the cover-1, crappy second when Williams goes back to his beloved Cover-2

We beat Detroit (defense allows 3 points)
We lose to the Packers (defense hold them to 14)

Both good performances.

We beat the Cards (defense hold them to 19)

The offense did their job, but the defense couldn't stop them in the 2nd half.

We lose to Pats (debacle on both sides)

49 points let up by the defense speaks for itself.

We beat Jets (defense allows 20)

And we let another poor offensive team make big plays and come back on us. And they were bailed out by a bad drop in OT.

We lose to the Iggles (we gave up 33..defenses fault...but if you were out of your self induced coma long enough you would remember our offense couldn't get drives going in the 4th Qtr)

The offense held the ball for 10 minutes of the 4th quarter, and the defense gave up 20 points in the other 5. Maybe you were in a coma?

We lose to Dallass (defense allows 28...you remember how that game ended)

Right, because its Campbell's fault that the defense decided that covering TO was optional.

We lose to Tampa (defense allows 19..but YOU know why we lost this one)

And the defense is guiltless in this one.

We lose to Bills (defense allows 17..you know why we lost this one?)

Because they let Trent Edwards hit 2 long passes on them on the final drive. The timeout didn't really matter since Lindell hit the FG from 51 right after Gibbs called the first.

We beat Bears (defense allows 16)

Poor offensive team. We still were a sieve in the 2nd half...again.

We beat Giants (defense allows 10)

How many drops did the GIants have again? Its easy to play against an offense who dips their hands in crisco before the game lol.

We beat Minny (defense allows 21)

21 points to Tavaris Jackson..brava.

We beat Dallass (you know)

We lose to Seattle (I'd take our defensive performance in that one and say we should have won that one)

:rolleyes: Right, the defense had nothing to do with that one. Did you even watch any of the games this year?

Put the crack pipe down and get back on the wagon.

Right, because those of us who dare to disagree with you are in a coma or on drugs. /sarcasm

[akhhorus]

Now that's a whole different point that I won't disagree with. But Keino was saying that 9-7 teams don't usually make the playoffs and that's the reason we stink.

We stink because we stunk this year. The problem is that since we made the #6 wildcard spot again, Snyder might think that we're fine, and thats not good.

[Redskin4Life]

We stink because we stunk this year. The problem is that since we made the #6 wildcard spot again, Snyder might think that we're fine, and thats not good.
I won't say that we were a good ball club this season or that we're a few pieces away from the Super Bowl.

But I do think that you and I have a difference in opinion about who need to be let go to be good and how many pieces we need to be great. I honestly think an upgrade to the lines with the same staff we have now will be enough to be a consistent playoff team with the chance at being better.

[akhhorus]

I won't say that we were a good ball club this season or that we're a few pieces away from the Super Bowl.

But I do think that you and I have a difference in opinion about who need to be let go to be good and how many pieces we need to be great. I honestly think an upgrade to the lines with the same staff we have now will be enough to be a consistent playoff team with the chance at being better.

Talk to me after we get a head coach. Williams has shown that he's Spurrier-esque as a head coach. And if he took over the team, you can totally forget about the Skins fixing their Dline problems. He simply will not do it.

[Keino]

Going back to the '97 season, a 9-7 or lower team has made the playoffs every year except for three. In fact, 20 teams made the playoffs during that span with a 9-7 record or lower and in some cases won the division that way. So it would be unfair for you to say that we stunk this year by your own definition.

Why only go back to the 97 season?

I stand by the notion that 9-7 stinks, and most years doesn't get a team into the playoffs. Even more, when was the last time a 9-7 team won a playoff game?

Hell our own franchise has missed the playoffs Twice with 10-6 records.

We stunk. 9-7 stinks, and having to win 4 in a row to reach 9-7 stinks twice as bad.

[shally]

We stink because we stunk this year. The problem is that since we made the #6 wildcard spot again, Snyder might think that we're fine, and thats not good.

that is exactly the crux of the problem

snyder is making money faster thanhe can spend it

he seems to value keeping his hands on the personnel levers more than making the playoff every year. 2 out of 4 years appears good enough to him when the other option is hiring a GM and getting out of the way

if he doesnt make that kind of move now, he never will. whether it is williams, ryan or pretty much anyone other than cowher, he shows no sign of backing off. as was said yesterday, "if it aint broke, why fix it?"... that is really all we need to know..

more same old, same old on the way

i dont see cowher coming here (or pete carroll) unless he has spoken to marty his mentor and decides he would like to have 10 million for each year onhis contract whether he is actuallyt coaching for snyder or not..

you think williams is going to pay attention to the offense ? if he is here, AS likely departs and maybe we see lazor elevated to OC (the way jones elevated garrett to OC)

one way or the other, we might be the weakest 9-7 team in recent memory

[Smiley]

So try this on for size:

Offense avg 20.9 points per game ranked 18th in the league
Defense avg 19.4 points per game ranked 11th in the league

But that's a stat right?

So if you're going to talk about the weaker side of the ball this year? And drops and overthtrows by WRs and QBs are.....part of the game. It happens when you have 200-300 pounds coming at you at very fast speeds. Where to next?

[shally]

I won't say that we were a good ball club this season or that we're a few pieces away from the Super Bowl.

But I do think that you and I have a difference in opinion about who need to be let go to be good and how many pieces we need to be great. I honestly think an upgrade to the lines with the same staff we have now will be enough to be a consistent playoff team with the chance at being better.

we are a lot closer to being a 6-10 team next year than a SB contender

that kind of "just a player or 2 needed" mentality has gotten us nowhere for a long long time

[Smiley]

...and no one is saying 9-7 is great. It's above average. We made the playoffs, lost in the first round. It's the right direction. Why start over? ....and yes...if you disagree with there must be something wrong with you.

[akhhorus]

So try this on for size:

Offense avg 20.9 points per game ranked 18th in the league
Defense avg 19.4 points per game ranked 11th in the league

But that's a stat right?

So what?

So if you're going to talk about the weaker side of the ball this year?

Again: so what? Neither Saunders nor Williams should be the head coach.

And drops and overthtrows by WRs and QBs are.....part of the game. It happens when you have 200-300 pounds coming at you at very fast speeds. Where to next?

Is there any excuse you're not going to make? Drops/overthrows are part of the game-but they're also important when considering how good a defense is. The Skins didn't do well stopping the Giants in the 2nd game, the Giants did a good enough job doing that for us.

[akhhorus]

...and no one is saying 9-7 is great. It's above average. We made the playoffs, lost in the first round. It's the right direction. Why start over?

Why do you assume that Williams can repeat what Gibbs did just being "above average"? Williams isn't Gibbs.

[CNYSkinFan]

So try this on for size:

Offense avg 20.9 points per game ranked 18th in the league
Defense avg 19.4 points per game ranked 11th in the league

But that's a stat right?

So if you're going to talk about the weaker side of the ball this year? And drops and overthtrows by WRs and QBs are.....part of the game. It happens when you have 200-300 pounds coming at you at very fast speeds. Where to next?
ugh...what about the stats for sakcks, turnovers, TOP, blah blah blah

Stats don't tell the whole story, and that is why you keep going back to them.

The fact is we had the talent on defense to play a bone crushing attack styled defense but had a major weakness in the dline. Williams did not address the weakness and played a gameplan late in games that exposed that weakness with the result of several games being lost this year and a few others almost being lost because of it.

I see no reason to reward him with a HC job

[dj_stouty]

We may have stunk it up...but the regular season slate gets cleaned for playoff teams. Either you are one of the 12 teams who make it...or you are one of the 20 teams who don't. If anything, we stunk during that Seahawks game and that is what counts the most. 9 wins will get you into the NFC almost everytime. That is the state of the NFC...like it or leave it.

I remember seeing some stat on the TV that said the Redskins were one of only 3 teams in NFL history to start out 5-7 and make the playoffs. The Skins didn't back into the playoffs, they earned it those last four games. I'd rather see my team play great football in December by winning out the last 4 games to make the playoffs than to see my team start out with a 9-3 record and watch them lose the final 4 to make the playoffs. There is something to be said about a team who makes corrections and rights the ship.

[Keino]

We may have stunk it up...but the regular season slate gets cleaned for playoff teams. Either you are one of the 12 teams who make it...or you are one of the 20 teams who don't. If anything, we stunk during that Seahawks game and that is what counts the most. 9 wins will get you into the NFC almost everytime. That is the state of the NFC...like it or leave it.

I remember seeing some stat on the TV that said the Redskins were one of only 3 teams in NFL history to start out 5-7 and make the playoffs. The Skins didn't back into the playoffs, they earned it those last four games. I'd rather see my team play great football in December by winning out the last 4 games to make the playoffs than to see my team start out with a 9-3 record and watch them lose the final 4 to make the playoffs. There is something to be said about a team who makes corrections and rights the ship.



I'd rather see my team not place themselves in that position by losing games that they should win having 2 score leads well into the 4th Quarter. There is something to be said about a team that rights the ship, but there is more to say about a team that doesn't allow the ship to veer off course in the 1st place.

9-7 will never get you a home playoff game playing in the NFC East. 9-7 is mediocre and as a team we should aspire for much more than that, because the NFC is not always going to be the weaker conference forever. At some point in the near future, that is going to change.

[Smiley]

So you want to reward whom? And why do you want to reward someone outside of the organization? For what?...being here through the tough times...gritting it out with the players. There is no one better suited for this job right now. Grimm...I love em' but that's more of a risk than Williams. Forget Cohwer. The Ryan guy from the Ravens...I wasn't impressed..are you? Steve Marriuchi (sp?)? No thanks...this isn't Cali. Another college coach....again this ain't Cali. The guy runs a tough defense and I think he learned from The Man.

And......how would you have paid for the great DE you keep mentioning? Who would you have cut? We're 20M over the cap!!! You don't think he wanted a great DE?!!

[CNYSkinFan]

We may have stunk it up...but the regular season slate gets cleaned for playoff teams. Either you are one of the 12 teams who make it...or you are one of the 20 teams who don't. If anything, we stunk during that Seahawks game and that is what counts the most. 9 wins will get you into the NFC almost everytime. That is the state of the NFC...like it or leave it.

I remember seeing some stat on the TV that said the Redskins were one of only 3 teams in NFL history to start out 5-7 and make the playoffs. The Skins didn't back into the playoffs, they earned it those last four games. I'd rather see my team play great football in December by winning out the last 4 games to make the playoffs than to see my team start out with a 9-3 record and watch them lose the final 4 to make the playoffs. There is something to be said about a team who makes corrections and rights the ship.
I guess I am afraid that it was not so much about corrections made as playing with emotion from the ST incident. I think the redskins team we have played above their heads theose last 4 games because they played for something else then themselves. I am also afraid only Gibbs can get them to do that.

So if that is the case...then a partial blowup or complete blow up is fine with me. I do think we have talent, and a vet coach can come iun and use it to it's top level...but I am worried that level is what we saw last year...9-7

[akhhorus]

So you want to reward whom? And why do you want to reward someone outside of the organization? For what?...being here through the tough times...gritting it out with the players. There is no one better suited for this job right now. Grimm...I love em' but that's more of a risk than Williams. Forget Cohwer. The Ryan guy from the Ravens...I wasn't impressed..are you? Steve Marriuchi (sp?)? No thanks...this isn't Cali. Another college coach....again this ain't Cali. The guy runs a tough defense and I think he learned from The Man.

I suppose you could have said the same about Richie Petitbon. How did that work out?

And......how would you have paid for the great DE you keep mentioning? Who would you have cut? We're 20M over the cap!!! You don't think he wanted a great DE?!!

That 20 million figure is hyperbole. We void Brunell, and convert Cooley's roster bonus and we're at 6 over. Also, we're talking about last offseason when we could have signed Pat Kerney for just about the same as Carter, drafted any of the DLmen who went early(and contributed sacks) or ANYONE better than the corpse of Philip Daniels at LDE. Williams doesn't see any problem with the Dline and I think he's the only one on Earth who believes it.

[Smiley]

...and everyone keeps forgetting we were decimated with injuries...on both sides! We lost #1 Corner, our best player (on either side of the ball) and a starting LB, a ProBowl Guard, a Tackle and a QB.

[ihatedallas]

I disagree with anyone saying this team is light years away from being a playoff contender. There is obviously problems with certain areas of the team, resulting in our playoff loss. Either way, we made the playoffs, whether the 6 seed or not we still made them.

So saying that this team isn't only a moderate amount of pieces away from competing is incorrect imo.

We were one of 12 teams to make the playoffs, and we really almost won that game.

I don't have a problem with Williams being the headcoach. I think that as long as you keep the core group of guys together progress will be made.

This team IS lightyears from being a dominating one seed, but it is not one that can not come back next year and challenge the top again.

We went 3-3 in our division, which included 2 playoff teams. We barely lost to the 2 seeded greenbay. We struggled in the playoff game, but we were one play away from winning that. We also won our final 4 games when we needed too.

The only thing this team needs to do is maintain direction, losing gibbs can throw all progress off kilter.

this team can be a good team next year. They need a coach who can give this team an aim and motivate them, WHILE being efficent at actually coaching.

[akhhorus]

...and everyone keeps forgetting we were decimated with injuries...on both sides! We lost #1 Corner, our best player (on either side of the ball) and a starting LB, a ProBowl Guard, a Tackle and a QB.

And we still won 4 in a row despite those injuries. So, they weren't that big a problem.

[akhhorus]

I disagree with anyone saying this team is light years away from being a playoff contender. There is obviously problems with certain areas of the team, resulting in our playoff loss. Either way, we made the playoffs, whether the 6 seed or not we still made them.

So saying that this team isn't only a moderate amount of pieces away from competing is incorrect imo.

We were one of 12 teams to make the playoffs, and we really almost won that game.

I don't have a problem with Williams being the headcoach. I think that as long as you keep the core group of guys together progress will be made.

This team IS lightyears from being a dominating one seed, but it is not one that can not come back next year and challenge the top again.

We went 3-3 in our division, which included 2 playoff teams. We barely lost to the 2 seeded greenbay. We struggled in the playoff game, but we were one play away from winning that. We also won our final 4 games when we needed too.

The only thing this team needs to do is maintain direction, losing gibbs can throw all progress off kilter.

this team can be a good team next year. They need a coach who can give this team an aim and motivate them, WHILE being efficent at actually coaching.

And since when does Williams fit that description?

[CNYSkinFan]

So you want to reward whom? And why do you want to reward someone outside of the organization? For what?...being here through the tough times...gritting it out with the players. There is no one better suited for this job right now. Grimm...I love em' but that's more of a risk than Williams. Forget Cohwer. The Ryan guy from the Ravens...I wasn't impressed..are you? Steve Marriuchi (sp?)? No thanks...this isn't Cali. Another college coach....again this ain't Cali. The guy runs a tough defense and I think he learned from The Man.

And......how would you have paid for the great DE you keep mentioning? Who would you have cut? We're 20M over the cap!!! You don't think he wanted a great DE?!!
I want the best person for the job...that person is not on staff right now. Why are you acting liike this is not normal. Most of the time when a HC resigns you go outside the organization...at least 50% of the coaching changes come from outside the organization. Espescially after a losing coaching tenure. The Redskins were 31-36 under Gibbs and Williams. (14-19 under the Saunder's offense). Time to move onto something new and shake some things up

[Smiley]

So you would give up Landry for a DE in that draft? Even with hindsight? And how do you cut Brunnel when you have no idea what Todd Collins could do? Joe Gibbs made that call....not Gregg.

Richie Pettibone? You could say that about Joe Jackson Gibbs in September 1981....so what's your point?

[James F. Quinn]

My favorite part about hiring Gregg isn't about what I think about Gregg himself. I think he would do fine but what I really want is to build off of what Joe Gibbs has put in place and to finally have a Head Coach, a defensive coordinator, and an offensive coordinator. I don't want anymore of this stuff where the assistant coaches are associate head coaches. I want a Head Coach and then I want coordinators.

That's just title inflation and means nothing. It's about stroking egos. It looks better on your business card and letterhead to be an Assistant/ Associate/ Deputy/UberGuppenFuhrer (sp?)/ Head Coach. The guy standing on the Redskins sidelines with the name Offensive Coordinator probably didn't have a functioning headset.

[Smiley]

NYSKINS - Cause Im tired of starting over every 2-4 years dude!! The grass is always greener and I think Gregg has the respect and command of these players. I also think the schemes on both sides of the ball can work. Imagine Gregg's defense and Al opening up the offense!! If JC can learn to really manage this offense we can begin to win 10-13 games. Stability.

[Keino]

So you would give up Landry for a DE in that draft? Even with hindsight? And how do you cut Brunnel when you have no idea what Todd Collins could do? Joe Gibbs made that call....not Gregg.

Richie Pettibone? You could say that about Joe Jackson Gibbs in September 1981....so what's your point?

Okoye had as good if not better year than Landry.

In 1981, Joe Gibbs was hired from outside the organization, replacing Jack Pardee who was hired from within. Gibbs was a San Diego Assistant at the time of his hire.

[akhhorus]

So you would give up Landry for a DE in that draft? Even with hindsight? And how do you cut Brunnel when you have no idea what Todd Collins could do? Joe Gibbs made that call....not Gregg.

In hindsight, we still need a DE. I'm not specifically saying we should give up Landry for Okoye, but how about signing someone at DE who can actually rush the passer.

And Brunell restructured his deal so that he'll get it voided out this offseason. The Skins can't keep him around because of the salary breakdowns.

Richie Pettibone? You could say that about Joe Jackson Gibbs in September 1981....so what's your point?

No, we have a parallel situation here. The long time defensive coordinator replacing Gibbs with little/no experience as a head coach. Williams was a disaster in Buffalo, and considering how much autonomy Gibbs gave him, I doubt he learned much here.

[akhhorus]

NYSKINS - Cause Im tired of starting over every 2-4 years dude!! The grass is always greener and I think Gregg has the respect and command of these players. I also think the schemes on both sides of the ball can work. Imagine Gregg's defense and Al opening up the offense!! If JC can learn to really manage this offense we can begin to win 10-13 games. Stability.

If Williams would not play his Cover-2, what you say is remotely plausible. However, Williams won't. We need a leader with GIbbs leaving, Williams hasn't shown that he can do that.

[CNYSkinFan]

NYSKINS - Cause Im tired of starting over every 2-4 years dude!! The grass is always greener and I think Gregg has the respect and command of these players. I also think the schemes on both sides of the ball can work. Imagine Gregg's defense and Al opening up the offense!! If JC can learn to really manage this offense we can begin to win 10-13 games. Stability.
THis group of players were given 4 years. They have at most 1-2 left. Age is catching upto this group. Most NFL teams not named the Patriots and Colts have 4-5 year windows. And the reason Indy and the pats do is because they biuild through the draft (the pats added some WR this year but that was an add on to an already talented team).

This is a very old squad, espescially in the starting unit, and very thin depth at most positions. You overrate our squad.

[shally]

THis group of players were given 4 years. They have at most 1-2 left. Age is catching upto this group. Most NFL teams not named the Patriots and Colts have 4-5 year windows. And the reason Indy and the pats do is because they biuild through the draft (the pats added some WR this year but that was an add on to an already talented team).

This is a very old squad, espescially in the starting unit, and very thin depth at most positions. You overrate our squad.

also because indy and the pats have the ultimate trump cards in peyton and brady.. without those 2 they would not be the powers they are consistently.
those guys takes the lumps out of the down years by themselves

[CNYSkinFan]

also because indy and the pats have the ultimate trump cards in peyton and brady.. without those 2 they would not be the powers they are consistently.
those guys takes the lumps out of the down years by themselves
and they got them through the draft tooo...so a big bonus for them

[Smiley]

Akh - I know Brunnel is gone....and I guarentee you we will be getting someone on the other side of Carter this offseason. I don't deny us needing one last year, we couldn't fit it in. We will restructure contracts and get a few additional players in here to help us get over that 9 win hump. I'm looking at this as a 5-6 year plan, we're in the 4th year (3rd with our OC). Our offense is catching up and I think we're right on the verge of becoming good. I say, continue with Joe's plan. Again, if you disagree with me there MUST be something wromg with you. Smile.

[akhhorus]

Akh - I know Brunnel is gone....and I guarentee you we will be getting someone on the other side of Carter this offseason.

If Williams is in charge, we won't. Certainly no one who can do the job.

I don't deny us needing one last year, we couldn't fit it in.

Bull. We could have easily gotten someone like DeWayne White without cap issues.

We will restructure contracts and get a few additional players in here to help us get over that 9 win hump. I'm looking at this as a 5-6 year plan, we're in the 4th year (3rd with our OC). Our offense is catching up and I think we're right on the verge of becoming good. I say, continue with Joe's plan.

Williams isn't Joe. He doesn't have the same leadership or organizational abilities as Gibbs does.

Again, if you disagree with me there MUST be something wromg with you. Smile.

If this is the level of your discourse, then this board isn't for you.

[Smiley]

I don't think we're THAT old. If we can add 2 players from this draft to our starting lineup or as backups (you pick the positions) and sign 1 or 2 good free agents as starters (again you pick the positions) we're a pretty good team. If it doesn't work this upcoming year (10-6 or better), I'm all for scrapping it. We all want to see consistency from this team, let's give THEM consistency on both sides of the ball. Can you imagine having to learn a new defense or offense...AGAIN!!!! We'll have to turn the roster over....it sounds exciting.....but i'm sure it's not.

[Smiley]

Akh - That was joke.....and I'll decide whether this is the board for me.

[Smiley]

...and how much do you want to bet we get another DE this upcoming season? Williams or no Williams.

[akhhorus]

I don't think we're THAT old. If we can add 2 players from this draft to our starting lineup or as backups (you pick the positions) and sign 1 or 2 good free agents as starters (again you pick the positions) we're a pretty good team. If it doesn't work this upcoming year (10-6 or better), I'm all for scrapping it. We all want to see consistency from this team, let's give THEM consistency on both sides of the ball. Can you imagine having to learn a new defense or offense...AGAIN!!!! We'll have to turn the roster over....it sounds exciting.....but i'm sure it's not.

As opposed to what? Williams saying he's going to run the Cover-1, builds a defense meant for the Cover-1, then plays the Cover-2 despite all evidence on the field that it doesn't work? I'll take the new system.

[Smiley]

What new system? And good thing you don''t have to play in it. I'll take a top 10 defense again.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Williams has an ego the size of Kansas, I like him some days and others I can't stand him. Let's be real here, GW wants to be Gibbs successor, but where would he go if he doesn't get it, would he stay to continue to be a good D-coordinator under someone else. I know that Al doesn't have any other offers really on the table, so he would be here, but GW has shown that he deserves to stay, but I feel he is better as a coordinator then the HC. Al, I don't care about cause he is so stubborn, he should've never been brought here by Gibbs, we lost a year in 2006, that losing season I would put on Al not GW. Al was 3 and out, all the time.

[akhhorus]

What new system? And good thing you don''t have to play in it. I'll take a top 10 defense again.

I'll take any coordinator who makes adjustments when his defense doesn't work. Williams took nearly 30 weeks to do that. I've been over your game by game break down. Statistically, the defense was top ten in yards, but I wouldn't consider it one of the top 10 defenses in the NFL, especially since they were in the bottom 10 of turnovers created and bottom half of sacks.

[Smiley]

Actually I think we're a better defense than what we were this year, stay healthy and get a DE and CB we'll be very good. Hail!!

[skinsfan36]

Actually I think we're a better defense than what we were this year, stay healthy and get a DE and CB we'll be very good. Hail!!

add a lb to that(briggs)

[dj_stouty]

...and how much do you want to bet we get another DE this upcoming season? Williams or no Williams.

100% chance with a coach outside the current system.
0% chance with Gregg Williams.

Gregg prefers to baffle offenses with "coverage sacks". LMAO

[Biggie]

Gregg prefers to baffle offenses with "coverage sacks". LMAO
:lol3:

I think Smiley is Gregg Williams.

[dj_stouty]

:lol3:

I think Smiley is Gregg Williams.

Or he is Phillip Daniels trying to save his rear end. ;)

[hail2skins]

I think it should mean something when the players endorse someone. How much it should mean I'm not sure. Most of them feel that something has started that they want continue. Bringing someone in from outside won't accomplish that. Also, if we're going to rebuild by bringing someone in from outside the org, how long should they get to turn things around? How much of a window should they have to get their players in and their system installed.

[Smiley]

I could be Gregg Williams...or someone in the front office....hmmmm...HAIL!!!

[Smiley]

Still laughing over the Daniels one!!! I'm just an optimist......Hail!!

[CNYSkinFan]

I think it should mean something when the players endorse someone. How much it should mean I'm not sure. Most of them feel that something has started that they want continue. Bringing someone in from outside won't accomplish that. Also, if we're going to rebuild by bringing someone in from outside the org, how long should they get to turn things around? How much of a window should they have to get their players in and their system installed.
with fa and the draft nowadays I think a turn around can happen pretty quickly...maybe 1-2 years. The teams that have real trouble turning around are the teams like SF, AZ, and Det who have incompetent owners unwilling to spend money.

That will not be the case here.

I also don't buy you have to ...or even can... do a full blow up. Maybe a partial one but not a full one. You have great young players to build around. IMO here they Are:

Offense: Campbell, Cooley, Moss, Heyer, Rabach (OL is an issue)

Defense: Golston, Montgomery, Carter, McIntosh (when healthy), Rogers (when healthy) Landry

You take two offseasons to fill in the pieces and you have a decent squad there

[akhhorus]

I think it should mean something when the players endorse someone. How much it should mean I'm not sure. Most of them feel that something has started that they want continue. Bringing someone in from outside won't accomplish that. Also, if we're going to rebuild by bringing someone in from outside the org, how long should they get to turn things around? How much of a window should they have to get their players in and their system installed.

I balance that versus continuation of the same, only with a less capable head coach. Its not like we were 13-3 this year, we barely made the playoffs.

And you can't have the inmates running the asylum imo.

[shally]

...and how much do you want to bet we get another DE this upcoming season? Williams or no Williams.

i wouldnt put very much confidence in that happening with williams as coach.
if we get cowher ? absolutely because we will need ends capable of playing the 3/4

[hail2skins]

with fa and the draft nowadays I think a turn around can happen pretty quickly...maybe 1-2 years. The teams that have real trouble turning around are the teams like SF, AZ, and Det who have incompetent owners unwilling to spend money.

That will not be the case here.

I also don't buy you have to ...or even can... do a full blow up. Maybe a partial one but not a full one. You have great young players to build around. IMO here they Are:

Offense: Campbell, Cooley, Moss, Heyer, Rabach (OL is an issue)

Defense: Golston, Montgomery, Carter, McIntosh (when healthy), Rogers (when healthy) Landry

You take two offseasons to fill in the pieces and you have a decent squad thereThe players you list may not be the type of players the new coach would want. They might not even fit the scheme. So you say a 1-2 turnaround. Interesting and it shouldn't be about who can spend the most money either. We've been down that road before.

Also what's the difference in giving GW 1-2 or someone from outside the org 1-2 years?

[shally]

I think it should mean something when the players endorse someone. How much it should mean I'm not sure. Most of them feel that something has started that they want continue. Bringing someone in from outside won't accomplish that. Also, if we're going to rebuild by bringing someone in from outside the org, how long should they get to turn things around? How much of a window should they have to get their players in and their system installed.

respectfully, the players endorsed pettibone at least as much the last time gibbs left.. and then abandoned him in droves by the middle of next season

the players endorsed robiskie but wouldnt play for him either

i recall the players endorsing pardee a lot also

players dont like uncertainty and keeping williams provides at least some security against the wholesale changes that would occur for certain with someone like cowher who brings in a new scheme and new coaches, or even someone like caldwell who would bring in new coaches and presumably new players..

and again, respectfully, to take a 1-2 year approach instead of saying we are going 4-5 years is asking for trouble.. sure, in reality things can bottom out after 1 or 2 years (just ask cameron) but i think we have seen too much instability around here. that is why i think we need a GM to be a long term builder of the personnel of this franchise

[redwolf1218]

i say keep Williams as head coach. he has probably learned alot from Gibbs about character. the team can play for the memory of Taylor and the honor of Gibbs. continuity might bring improvement, but a complete overhaul probably wont.

[akhhorus]

The players you list may not be the type of players the new coach would want. They might not even fit the scheme. So you say a 1-2 turnaround. Interesting and it shouldn't be about who can spend the most money either. We've been down that road before.

Also what's the difference in giving GW 1-2 or someone from outside the org 1-2 years?

Thats not fair to the players or WIlliams if you give him effectively a 2 year window to go deep in the playoffs or else. If you're going to rebuild, do it now-don't tap dance for 2 years, then do it when Campbell should be in his prime.

[redskin_rich]

I guess I'm one of the minority that thinks continuity is not that big a deal in this case. A lot of the best players on this team are on the decline and a 40-50% roster turnover, to get younger and cheaper, wouldn't bother me. I really have doubts that anyone can get anymore out of the current team than Gibbs did.

Start anew now, instead of two years from now
a 2 year fix is insanity.. we need to take the long view and that is why we need to go young
I never said anything about a 2 year fix, I said start fixing the team now instead of milking it for another 2 years of mediocrity, which is all that GW will bring us.

[shally]

I never said anything about a 2 year fix, I said start fixing the team now instead of milking it for another 2 years of mediocrity, which is all that GW will bring us.


then we shouldnt hire GW in the first place (and on that i certainly agree with you)

[redskin_rich]

then we shouldnt hire GW in the first place (and on that i certainly agree with you)
Exactly. This team, as it is now, has peaked. If we were coming off a Championship loss or better, than I would be all about continuity but we aren't. We were a mediocre team that had a short run of good football to sneak into the playoffs and get quickly dismissed. We need to get younger at a lot of places and we may as well start now, with a new coach and a new direction.

[hail2skins]

Thats not fair to the players or WIlliams if you give him effectively a 2 year window to go deep in the playoffs or else. If you're going to rebuild, do it now-don't tap dance for 2 years, then do it when Campbell should be in his prime.If he or the players go deep into the playoffs, then it's not just a 2 year window.

[hail2skins]

Exactly. This team, as it is now, has peaked. If we were coming off a Championship loss or better, than I would be all about continuity but we aren't. We were a mediocre team that had a short run of good football to sneak into the playoffs and get quickly dismissed. We need to get younger at a lot of places and we may as well start now, with a new coach and a new direction.Wow, I thought we had a lot of talent on the team and it was constrained by the coaches earlier in the season. I don't think we have mediocre players. I would have loved to have seen this team if the coaches were in the all out mode all season as opposed to late in the season.

[syphy]

i wouldnt put very much confidence in that happening with williams as coach.
if we get cowher ? absolutely because we will need ends capable of playing the 3/4

While I think Cowher would do well eventually, I personally don't want him to come here. He'd want to run 3-4 which would result in him gutting our defense . Everyone who plays on the front seven would be out the door.

Williams I'm torn about. I agree he would be the best for continuity, but on the flip side, do you really want to give the players someone they like and ask for? Or do you want to give them someone who would ride them a bit, make them work and get the best out of them?

I'm being repetitive but, my vote is Singletary or Grimm.

[shally]

If he or the players go deep into the playoffs, then it's not just a 2 year window.

if it feels like an "interim" appointment then players and assistant coaches are not likely to remain when they have a chance to leave, nor will we be able to get the free agents we want

owners go out of their way to add extensions to existing contracts to avoid the hint of interim or trial basis coaches, i just think it would be perceived inthe wrong way

also, most head coaches, even at the beginning insist on at least a 3 year initial contract, what makes you think that GW would even go for a deal like that ?

[shally]

While I think Cowher would do well eventually, I personally don't want him to come here. He'd want to run 3-4 which would result in him gutting our defense . Everyone who plays on the front seven would be out the door.

Williams I'm torn about. I agree he would be the best for continuity, but on the flip side, do you really want to give the players someone they like and ask for? Or do you want to give them someone who would ride them a bit, make them work and get the best out of them?

I'm being repetitive but, my vote is Singletary or Grimm.

dallas' defense didnt exactly fall off a cliff when they went from 4/3 to 3/4. some guys made adjustments and they added draft picks and free agents

the main need would be an anchor inthe middle and i think that golston or griffin could certainly do well for 1 year

we have enough linebackers to get the process started and added 1 or 2 in free agency or the draft would get it done. godfrey would be ideal for a 3/4
and fletcher is fine either scheme

getting out of the d*** soft zone would do more than anything else to help
and cowher is used to running an attacking defense, so i expect that is what we would see

[Keino]

Wow, I thought we had a lot of talent on the team and it was constrained by the coaches earlier in the season. I don't think we have mediocre players. I would have loved to have seen this team if the coaches were in the all out mode all season as opposed to late in the season.

That to me is another reason why it should be broken up. The coaches have demonstrated that they lack the ability to motivate the players until their backs are against the wall. Williams would represent more of the same without the Hall of fame credibility that Gibbs brought to the lockerroom.

[akhhorus]

If he or the players go deep into the playoffs, then it's not just a 2 year window.

I honestly don't think that Williams is capable of accomplishing that. Even if we gave him major upgrades to the team, I don't think this team gets much better with him at HC.

[redskin_rich]

Wow, I thought we had a lot of talent on the team and it was constrained by the coaches earlier in the season. I don't think we have mediocre players. I would have loved to have seen this team if the coaches were in the all out mode all season as opposed to late in the season.

I never said that. We had the talent to compete and the coaches did constrain them for much of the season but I don't see this team being better next year. Our old O-Line is sure to have injuries again, I strongly doubt we get another injury-free year out of Springs. We need immediate help at WR, DE, LB, CB and probably S and we need a serious youth infusion across the O-Line. That's a lot of needs and we may as well start with a new direction now, instead of in a couple years.

[shally]

I honestly don't think that Williams is capable of accomplishing that. Even if we gave him major upgrades to the team, I don't think this team gets much better with him at HC.

besides, who runs the offense ? no guarantee that AS sticks around and if he doesnt we have JC coming back off of injury having to learn yet another offensive playbook, without collins behind him in all probability

[hail2skins]

That to me is another reason why it should be broken up. The coaches have demonstrated that they lack the ability to motivate the players until their backs are against the wall. Williams would represent more of the same without the Hall of fame credibility that Gibbs brought to the lockerroom.my question has always been was it the coaches or players who did the motivation towards the end.

I'm just sick and tired of having to rebuild after we visited the playoffs. We had a lot of injuries to starters and I would to see them together again for another run. Seems like we make the playoffs and then change everything for the next season. Last time it was the offense, this time it could be the entire team.

[hail2skins]

I never said that. We had the talent to compete and the coaches did constrain them for much of the season but I don't see this team being better next year. Our old O-Line is sure to have injuries again, I strongly doubt we get another injury-free year out of Springs. We need immediate help at WR, DE, LB, CB and probably S and we need a serious youth infusion across the O-Line. That's a lot of needs and we may as well start with a new direction now, instead of in a couple years.
I thought your we were a mediocre team comment was you believing we had mediocre talent. Was I wrong?

I can see this team being better next season. I guess that's our difference.

[ihatedallas]

And since when does Williams fit that description?

I'm don't know whether Williams is capable of that or not.


I'm just arguing against the fact that this team is far away from competing seriously.

[redskin_rich]

I told your we were a mediocre team as you believing we had mediocre talent. Was I wrong?

I can see this team being better next season. I guess that's our difference.
I think most of our most talented players are on the decline. We have more good older players than good younger players right now and that is why I think our team, as a whole, will not get better as it stands right now. I also don't think GW or anyone else on our staff can get these players to play as hard as Gibbs did.

[Keino]

my question has always been was it the coaches or players who did the motivation towards the end.

I'm just sick and tired of having to rebuild after we visited the playoffs. We had a lot of injuries to starters and I would to see them together again for another run. Seems like we make the playoffs and then change everything for the next season. Last time it was the offense, this time it could be the entire team.

I can understand that, but I am sick and tired of watching what I saw in the months of October and November. Im sick of inconsistent and lackluster efforts. It is the coaches and the players to me, and it really doesn't matter who did the motivating....it should never have gotten to that point.....in 2005 nor in 2007.

I think Williams needs to go. Like I said, if I was Snyder, it wouldn't have even been a question, because I would have fired both Gibbs and Williams, and thats real.

Mediocrity is unacceptable, even if it gets you to the playoffs.

Furthermore, there is not a player on this team that I would be upset parting ways with if thats what the new coach wants. Not one.

We aren't close to a ring, and in a way, making the playoffs was a curse, because the fanbase and the owner think we are closer than we are.

[hail2skins]

I can understand that, but I am sick and tired of watching what I saw in the months of October and November. Im sick of inconsistent and lackluster efforts. It is the coaches and the players to me, and it really doesn't matter who did the motivating....it should never have gotten to that point.....in 2005 nor in 2007.

I think Williams needs to go. Like I said, if I was Snyder, it wouldn't have even been a question, because I would have fired both Gibbs and Williams, and thats real.

Mediocrity is unacceptable, even if it gets you to the playoffs.

Furthermore, there is not a player on this team that I would be upset parting ways with if thats what the new coach wants. Not one.

We aren't close to a ring, and in a way, making the playoffs was a curse, because the fanbase and the owner think we are closer than we are.LOL, not one player at all? WOW There are some I would keep.

[Keino]

LOL, not one player at all? WOW There are some I would keep.

Yea....that was a bit much. LOL

[lidocaine]

LOL, not one player at all? WOW There are some I would keep.


Ethan "Father Time" Albright.


...I wonder if I can get a jersey.

[Biggie]

Yea....that was a bit much. LOL
Guys like Campbell, Portis, Cooley, Montgomery, and Landry are must-keeps because they're young and awesome, but as for the rest of them, meh. I doubt any of the starters on the offensive line are here in five years, and the same goes for the wide receivers/linebackers/secondary (with the exception of Landry).

[colkurtz]

Wow, I thought we had a lot of talent on the team and it was constrained by the coaches earlier in the season. I don't think we have mediocre players. I would have loved to have seen this team if the coaches were in the all out mode all season as opposed to late in the season.

That's a great post. This team was held back by the coaches too much. We could easily have won a couple more games with a more opened up game.

The new HC will inherit a good team with a full load of draft picks and some modest funds for FA players. Now we just need for Danny and Vinny to stay out of the kitchen once the HC is chosen.

[Biggie]

Now we just need for Danny and Vinny to stay out of the kitchen once the HC is chosen.
And therein lies the problem.

[dj_stouty]

I don't take too much stock in the players endorsing Gregg. They all know he is an internal candidate, so of course they are going to endorse him just in case he gets the job. A player (especially on Defense) would be flat out stupid to say Cowher or Grimm, even if that is who they would prefer.

With the way our FO structures contracts, I don't think it is feasible for a new head coach to come in and blow the entire roster up as there would be too much dead cap for the next 2 seasons and little to no money to sign replacements. I do, however, expect a handful of guys to be let go regardless of the new man in charge. Some people, like Marcus and Daniels, aren't worth their cap hits in '08.

[bergiemoore]

I don't take too much stock in the players endorsing Gregg. They all know he is an internal candidate, so of course they are going to endorse him just in case he gets the job. A player (especially on Defense) would be flat out stupid to say Cowher or Grimm, even if that is who they would prefer.

With the way our FO structures contracts, I don't think it is feasible for a new head coach to come in and blow the entire roster up as there would be too much dead cap for the next 2 seasons and little to no money to sign replacements. I do, however, expect a handful of guys to be let go regardless of the new man in charge. Some people, like Marcus and Daniels, aren't worth their cap hits in '08.


That's inevitable. Last year, the team cut Wynn and Salave'a. Those guys were "core Redskins" at one point. I would expect a couple other aging and under-performing "core Redskins" to get cut this year as well. Washington and Daniels are high on that list.

Still, players vocally supporting an internal candidate has a lot to do with their belief that the team is on the right track, and they don't want to see the organization blown up, as normally happens when an outside HC comes into an organization.

[hogs86]

other than jeff fisher, i am not sure of anyone i would take who is still coaching right now and who was onthe hot seat (fisher is no longer at risk anyway)


Thats funny you said Jeff Fisher. He and Williams are best friends and have coach together.

Shally i gave you a hint and that is who i thought the skins would go after Fisher. I was told the skins first stop was Tenn. So i thought it had to be Fisher. But we now know it was Jim Schwartz. And if he gets the job. IMO Williams may go back to Tenn.