Go Jaguars!!!

[ChapelHillMatt]

Great start to this game.

Gutsy call to go for it on 4th & 1 and not only go for it but go deep. If you are going to beat the Pats then you have to take these kinds of chances.

[JasonCampbell]

Tom Brady is so good.

[The Skinsinator]

Tom Brady is so good.He's got all day to throw to arguably the best set of receivers in the nfl though. This game is going to be nasty.

[JasonCampbell]

He's got all day to throw to arguably the best set of receivers in the nfl though. This game is going to be nasty.

Well, I don't care if he has all day to throw, that TD pass was sick.

[The Skinsinator]

Well, I don't care if he has all day to throw, that TD pass was sick.It was a better catch than throw. Watson doesn't get as much credit as he used since they snydered their receivers (Moss, Stallworth, Welker).

[Fathead]

If the pats lose this and it's within 4 points, that lack of review is going to be the difference. I think he was down.





That said, I doubt the pats lose this. New England is just killing the deep coverages that the Jags are using.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

If the pats lose this and it's within 4 points, that lack of review is going to be the difference. I think he was down.





That said, I doubt the pats lose this. New England is just killing the deep coverages that the Jags are using.
i thought he was down initially, but after watching the replay, it would've been too close to call for the refs.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

jags go 95 yards and tie it up at 14 all. let see what the jacksonville defense can do with some time off.....

[The Skinsinator]

i thought he was down initially, but after watching the replay, it would've been too close to call for the refs.It was a td and Belicheck knew it or he would have thrown the flag. Garrard is doing a good job against Sypgate's defense. GO JAGS!

[WarEagle]

Man, the Pat's defense looks old. Someone get them some oxygen.

[WarEagle]

Brady threw a block! lol...

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i see other kickers are missing 30-something yard kicks too, lol. its anybody's game....lets go jags!!

[WarEagle]

Pats up 21-14. Pretty good fake hand-off there...

[Fathead]

If the Jags don't start getting real pressure, this is over.

[WarEagle]

NBC's play-by-play commentator is off his game tonight. His pattern of speech is somewhat stilted, with longish pauses between words. Like he's drunk. Anyone else noticed?

I also noticed NBC hasn't once shown the End Zone Patriots, who fire their muskets after each score. They dress in period clothes and stand behind the end zone somewhere.

[Fathead]

Isn't this game on CBS?

[PyroGenic]

Isn't this game on CBS?

yup. lol

[ChapelHillMatt]

Good effort by the Jags, the Pat's are just basically unbeatable.

[skinsfan36]

Good effort by the Jags, the Pat's are just basically unbeatable.

it really looks that way

[Syllable]

Good thing the Jags rushed 3-4 for most of the game, made it really easy for Pats to win.

[The Skinsinator]

I tip my hat to Spygate tonight. Brady looked incredible and their d held when needed. Next week won't be as fun against Indy. Good performance by them nonetheless.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Even though they lost, you gotta admire Garrard for how he played tonight. People kept saying he wouldn't be able to match scores with Brady, that without being able to pound the ball on the ground he would have a bad night. But he almost matched scores with Brady, he deserves credit for that.
And I HATED that Jacksonville's chances of coming back had to end on a Rodney Harrison pick. He might be my most hated NFL player. Him and Romo compete for that spot.

[WarEagle]

Terrific game by the Jags. What a nifty little offense they have.

Here's a still photo of Brady with his back turned to the line on that fake hand-off. This seems very risky, as he could've been creamed from behind, or hit immediately upon turning around. A very memorable play.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/gallery/01_12_08_pats_jags?pg=51

[give_portis_the_rock]

Terrific game by the Jags. What a nifty little offense they have.

Here's a still photo of Brady with his back turned to the line on that fake hand-off. This seems very risky, as he could've been creamed from behind, or hit immediately upon turning around. A very memorable play.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/gallery/01_12_08_pats_jags?pg=51

Why did he raise his hand? I haven't ever seen anyone do that after a normal handoff, so I doubt he did that to sell the fake. He did that for the same reason Vrabel gets in on some offensive snaps -- because the Patriots like to act cute. It's real annoying.

And remember Bill Simmons before the game saying how he was "offended that anyone would even think this game will be close?" Damn, that dude makes how much money a year? And how often is he wrong? If any of us were wrong on that consistent a basis, all our asses would get fired.

[flave1969]

Good thing the Jags rushed 3-4 for most of the game, made it really easy for Pats to win.

I only watched the Highlights on NFL.com but I saw no attempt by the Jags to exert any pressure on Brady.

That is just crazy you have to at least try and pressure the man.

[The Skinsinator]

WAR EAGLE: Man you are on the wrong board. Go hang out with your Patriots gang that you just met the last few years. Quit endorsing these frauds here on the Skins board. Maybe one day you will get lucky and get Tom Brady all to yourself.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

WAR EAGLE: Man you are on the wrong board. Go hang out with your Patriots gang that you just met the last few years. Quit endorsing these frauds here on the Skins board. Maybe one day you will get lucky and get Tom Brady all to yourself.

He's right WarEagle. I mean, how can you not see that these Patriots are really a mediocre team led by a horrible QB that is just winning every game because they did what almost every other team in the NFL does and got caught in the first half of the first game of the season?

[smoak]

Man Crush:
http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Video/050629/n_man_crush_050629.300w.jpg

[smoak]

Man Crush:
http://haacked.com/images/haacked_com/WindowsLiveWriter/MIX07PicsFromMix_2F86/jeff-man-crush-miguel_thumb.jpg

[WarEagle]

I will suffer your slings and arrows and hold my head high.

I think I've figured out why Brady raised his left arm during that play. He was simulating a fake-pump - the kind you sometimes see a QB do after handing the ball off to the running back. There was a lot of deception going on in that play.

I found a video of it taken from the stands. You can see how completely fooled most of the crowd is, and how effective the trickery is from the field level in real time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiam6n013Lo

[SpicyMcHaggis]

For whoever thinks that Brady raised his hand just because "he is annoying": he raised his hand because they were faking a direct snap to the RB. That's what a QB does when there is a direct snap. He raises his right (throwing) hand to fake the throwing motion, then brought the ball from his left hand to his right, and completed the pass.
It was actually a brilliant play..or obvisouly just an incredibly arrogant and lucky one (depends on the point of view).

[Farmer Ted]

Who cares? The guy's still a douche, and it was still annoying.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Who cares? The guy's still a douche, and it was still annoying.

...especially to Jaguars fans.

[akhhorus]

For whoever thinks that Brady raised his hand just because "he is annoying": he raised his hand because they were faking a direct snap to the RB. That's what a QB does when there is a direct snap. He raises his right (throwing) hand to fake the throwing motion, then brought the ball from his left hand to his right, and completed the pass.
It was actually a brilliant play..or obvisouly just an incredibly arrogant and lucky one (depends on the point of view).

When Brett Favre did it for 10 years, its being a vet. When Brady does it, he's being a douche apparently. How the blue hell can anyone say he was being arrogant on that play?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

When Brett Favre did it for 10 years, its being a vet. When Brady does it, he's being a douche apparently. How the blue hell can anyone say he was being arrogant on that play?

Did you see the look on his face when he was faking the throw? I mean, he had "arrogance" written all over it. I mean, as a fan of the game, and as a person, I was just deeply offended by that play. And by the whole Patriots season.

[The Skinsinator]

He's right WarEagle. I mean, how can you not see that these Patriots are really a mediocre team led by a horrible QB that is just winning every game because they did what almost every other team in the NFL does and got caught in the first half of the first game of the season?Please provide me some proof that every other team is/has been spygating also. Other than hearing about a blurb about Mangini's Jets I haven't heard anything. Brady is a helluva qb however he admittedly suggests his oline and receivers make it easy for him. Hmmmm. Sure doesn't hurt does it? Spygate, oline, receivers equals loss for other team consistently.

[Syllable]

I will suffer your slings and arrows and hold my head high.

I think I've figured out why Brady raised his left arm during that play. He was simulating a fake-pump - the kind you sometimes see a QB do after handing the ball off to the running back. There was a lot of deception going on in that play.

I found a video of it taken from the stands. You can see how completely fooled most of the crowd is, and how effective the trickery is from the field level in real time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiam6n013Lo

I think it is to show that he doesn't have the ball in his hands anymore.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Please provide me some proof that every other team is/has been spygating also. Other than hearing about a blurb about Mangini's Jets I haven't heard anything. Brady is a helluva qb however he admittedly suggests his oline and receivers make it easy for him. Hmmmm. Sure doesn't hurt does it? Spygate, oline, receivers equals loss for other team consistently.

Lol.


As for the proof, it's a known fact (and has been mentioned by way too many people in way too many places to list) that all teams try to steal the other team's defensive signals.

[The Skinsinator]

Lol.


As for the proof, it's a known fact (and has been mentioned by way too many people in way too many places to list) that all teams try to steal the other team's defensive signals.Lol yeah you can tell I'm laughing. Sure they are going to attempt to get the other teams signals however do you they take video cameramen and tape all their signs from point blank range? The Pats have been doing this for years and just got caught this season. Goodell gave 'em a smack on the hand. You argument is a farce until I see proof.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Lol yeah you can tell I'm laughing. Sure they are going to attempt to get the other teams signals however do you they take video cameramen and tape all their signs from point blank range? The Pats have been doing this for years and just got caught this season. Goodell gave 'em a smack on the hand. You argument is a farce until I see proof.
I'm not sure how that helped them win 17 games AFTER they were cought doing it, but, as you say, they are obviously lucky, arrogant, and all douchebags.

[The Skinsinator]

I'm not sure how that helped them win 17 games AFTER they were cought doing it, but, as you say, they are obviously lucky, arrogant, and all douchebags.Don't try to change your argument. I never called them douches or lucky. You insinuated that every other team steals defensive signals also. I disagree and I'm waiting for you to change my mind.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I thought Garrard was outstanding. That pass to Northcut on the two should have been caught. I haven't seen alligator arms like that since Terry Glenn. Was pretty incredible that Garrard put the ball where he did with 3 guys in his face.

[PyroGenic]

Lol yeah you can tell I'm laughing. Sure they are going to attempt to get the other teams signals however do you they take video cameramen and tape all their signs from point blank range? The Pats have been doing this for years and just got caught this season. Goodell gave em a smack on the hand. You argument is a farce until I see proof.

The end result is the same as other teams (stealing signals), but the means of doing so was different (slightly elevated angle). I have no idea why people think its such a big deal, especially since that tactic could only be used to taint the first game of the season (and no, the pats wouldn't have lost to the jets, especially since they change up signals at the half). Most people don't even realize how minuscule an issue this is, the phrase "cheating" blew everything out of proportion and turned the masses into a lynch mob.

If you don't think every team does this, just take a gander at the guy in the cap calling the plays. He's not being shy behind that piece of paper, everybody knows that most, if not all teams, hire some slimey little guy to try to break the teams code. It's just a part of the game.

What's ironic is that the more people play up the cheater angle, the more motivation the pats get. So the more you don't want them to win, the more they kick your butt. I'm not a pats fan, I'm just tired of whiners.

[The Skinsinator]

What's ironic is that the more people play up the cheater angle, the more motivation the pats get. So the more you don't want them to win, the more they kick your butt. I'm not a pats fan, I'm just tired of whiners.I just want to see them win a super bowl clean this year. I realize I've been dragging spygate out for awhile since it happened however it just really irks me. Other coaches other than Mangini have mentioned their cheating numerous times before they even got caught. What they have done this season yes has been impressive in post sypgate and I tip my cap to them however.

[PyroGenic]

I just want to see them win a super bowl clean this year. I realize I've been dragging spygate out for awhile since it happened however it just really irks me. Other coaches other than Mangini have mentioned their cheating numerous times before they even got caught. What they have done this season yes has been impressive in post sypgate and I tip my cap to them.

Well what I have heard they do and think is really cheesy is that they knock out communications from the opposing teams' boxes where the coaches (sometimes) call the plays to the players on the field. It's happened more than once and it happened during our game. I'm not saying the pats are a beacon for all that's good and just, I'm just saying spygate isn't a big deal at this point of the season. I don't even really like any of their players besides for fantasy football reasons, I mean, who's gonna root for eye poking, score running jerks?

The pats stole the mantle of "suspicious play" from the raiders after the tuck rule IMO :)

Even if they are "evil", I still wouldn't mind watching history in the making. Sometimes you need to be a jerk to make things happen and I'll point to the pats for proving that.

[akhhorus]

Lol yeah you can tell I'm laughing. Sure they are going to attempt to get the other teams signals however do you they take video cameramen and tape all their signs from point blank range? The Pats have been doing this for years and just got caught this season. Goodell gave 'em a smack on the hand. You argument is a farce until I see proof.

What is the real difference between using a video camera and not? You still get the signals. Not using the camera is perfectly legal, yet they're this evil team because they used a video camera for one half(please show proof that they've been doing this previously or your argument is farce)?

And btw: teams have been using towels and players to hide the defensive signals for years, along with the offensive coaches blocking their mouths with the playsheet for years. They aren't doing that for style points, they're doing it because every team is trying to steal the call.

I just want to see them win a super bowl clean this year. I realize I've been dragging spygate out for awhile since it happened however it just really irks me. Other coaches other than Mangini have mentioned their cheating numerous times before they even got caught. What they have done this season yes has been impressive in post sypgate and I tip my cap to them however.

Since they were caught in the first half of the first game, how is their potential Super bowl win NOT clean?

[smoak]

When Brett Favre did it for 10 years, its being a vet. When Brady does it, he's being a douche apparently. How the blue hell can anyone say he was being arrogant on that play?

Not commenting on that play, but how the blue hell (what does that mean any way) can you say Brady isn't arrogant on the field??? The great ones almost always are! I would be a little arrogant if I accomplished what Brady has... I mean, I'd be humble to the media and all that, but my inner voices would all be teel me that "I ROCK". So of course hes a little arrogant on the field. So was Jordan.

[akhhorus]

Not commenting on that play, but how the blue hell (what does that mean any way) can you say Brady isn't arrogant on the field??? The great ones almost always are! I would be a little arrogant if I accomplished what Brady has... I mean, I'd be humble to the media and all that, but my inner voices would all be teel me that "I ROCK". So of course hes a little arrogant on the field. So was Jordan.

Stay on subject. How is running a fake like that being arrogant?

[smoak]

Stay on subject. How is running a fake like that being arrogant?


Excuse me, I answered that by saying I was commenting on the specific play. I didn't see anything wrong with that play (unless you are a Jaguars fan)

[The Skinsinator]

Since they were caught in the first half of the first game, how is their potential Super bowl win NOT clean?It would be clean if they win the big one this year. They haven't won one since they've been caught. Look I'm not saying they aren't a helluva team. I just think spygate was dismissed way too nonchalantly assuming everyone else is doing so it's no big deal. Whenever the integrity of America's obsession is brought up questions need to be answered and Belicheck couldn't do that. He avoided all the questions asked about this.

[akhhorus]

Excuse me, I answered that by saying I was commenting on the specific play. I didn't see anything wrong with that play (unless you are a Jaguars fan)

The issue on the table was that play, there's plenty of threads about the Pats' perceived level of arrogance. As for the general arrogance: they smirk a bit, but they don't go on ESPN and run their mouths about how great they are at all(see Cowboys, Colts, Chargers).

[akhhorus]

It would be clean if they win the big one this year. They haven't won one since they've been caught. Look I'm not saying they aren't a helluva team. I just think spygate was dismissed way too nonchalantly assuming everyone else is doing so it's no big deal. Whenever the integrity of America's obsession is brought up questions need to be answered and Belicheck couldn't do that. He avoided all the questions asked about this.

Fine. Prove that they were cheating for their previous super bowl wins. Since you want to hold Spicy to the standard of producing evidence, whats good for the goose, is good for the gander.


Btw, I think it was dismissed because just about every team tries to steal signals. In 2001, Shanahan in an interview with SI admitted that they actively try to steal signals(without a video camera).

[Syllable]

The only valid argument you can make about the patriots is that they are in essence evil, the rest of these = balogna.

[smoak]

The issue on the table was that play, there's plenty of threads about the Pats' perceived level of arrogance. As for the general arrogance: they smirk a bit, but they don't go on ESPN and run their mouths about how great they are at all(see Cowboys, Colts, Chargers).

Technically the topic at hand is "Go Jaguars" so in that vein:

Sad Jags Fans (http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011308/jag_236218809.shtml)

As I said, I had no issue with that play or their arrogance, and I am removing myself from this love/hate triangle.

[akhhorus]

The only valid argument you can make about the patriots is that they are in essence evil, the rest of these = balogna.

:rolleyes: They're evil because they win and rack up big scores? I'd love for the Skins to be Satan then. Don't even try to deny that you wouldn't love for the Skins to be like the Pats also.

[Syllable]

:rolleyes: They're evil because they win and rack up big scores? I'd love for the Skins to be Satan then. Don't even try to deny that you wouldn't love for the Skins to be like the Pats also.

Don't get me wrong, I would love the 'Skins to switch spots with the pats. You never think your team is evil unless you live in oakland.

[PyroGenic]

:rolleyes: They're evil because they win and rack up big scores? I'd love for the Skins to be Satan then. Don't even try to deny that you wouldn't love for the Skins to be like the Pats also.

Yeah but it doesn't mean you have to like them. Only fans of the team can excuse steroid use, eye-poking and shady activity.

That being said, I have a questionable moral compass, so I don't mind if they win the super bowl and make history. I'd like to witness something like that.

[akhhorus]

Yeah but it doesn't mean you have to like them. Only fans of the team can excuse steroid use, eye-poking and shady activity.

That being said, I have a questionable moral compass, so I don't mind if they win the super bowl and make history. I'd like to witness something like that.

If you want to get into roids and using them for advantage, shady activity and "eye poking", thats a pandora's box that engulfs most teams. Especially the Pats' next opponent, the Bolts.

[PyroGenic]

If you want to get into roids and using them for advantage, shady activity and "eye poking", thats a pandora's box that engulfs most teams. Especially the Pats' next opponent, the Bolts.

Whoever said anything about liking those chumps? :) You can maybe excuse that behavior for the Pats because they're the best in the league but you can't say that about the Chargers. They're over-achieveing/getting lucky. Plus Rivers isn't just starting crap with players, he's getting into shouting matches with fans and doesn't seem to have any control over his emotions... but maybe that's because norvald is running the show.

[akhhorus]

Whoever said anything about liking those chumps? :) You can maybe excuse that behavior for the Pats because they're the best in the league but you can't say that about the Chargers. They're over-achieveing/getting lucky. Plus Rivers isn't just starting crap with players, he's getting into shouting matches with fans and doesn't seem to have any control over his emotions... but maybe that's because norvald is running the show.

The Chargers taunt the opposing crowd, opposing players-while they're on the field between plays, and their star defender is a roid head. Yet the Pats are the cheaters/arrogant ones. Go figure.

[The Skinsinator]

The Chargers taunt the opposing crowd, opposing players-while they're on the field between plays, and their star defender is a roid head. Yet the Pats are the cheaters/arrogant ones. Go figure.Rivers is an ass yes anyone can realize that. It's almost as simple as comprehending Shawn Merriman uses steroids. Still don't see that camera though and Norv does deserve a slight amount of credit today. Indy looked ill for some unknown reason. Spygate i'm certain was happy with today's outcome.

[akhhorus]

Rivers is an ass yes anyone can realize that. It's almost as simple as comprehending Shawn Merriman uses steroids. Still don't see that camera though and Norv does deserve a slight amount of credit today. Indy looked ill for some unknown reason. Spygate i'm certain was happy with today's outcome.

Its pretty sad when you think that a camera used for 1 half of 1 game(still waiting for you to prove they used it for their super bowls or any time else btw) is a worse offense against the game than depending on a player who clearly has been using roids for years.

[The Skinsinator]

Its pretty sad when you think that a camera used for 1 half of 1 game(still waiting for you to prove they used it for their super bowls or any time else btw) is a worse offense against the game than depending on a player who clearly has been using roids for years.Think they are both unproductive situations for the league of course in different ways. Still waiting on that proof that every other team steals defensive signals. It doesn't have to be as bold as the video camera. You and I will never agree on the Pats. I hate them with a passion although respect them. 2 more games for that coveted undefeated spygate season.

[akhhorus]

Think they are both unproductive situations for the league of course in different ways. Still waiting on that proof that every other team steals defensive signals. It doesn't have to be as bold as the video camera.

I know this is pointless before i write, but anyways.
You have Mike Shanahan admitting(right after his two super bowl wins, which he was fined and stripped of picks for salary cap shenanigans) that they steal the defensive signals by the first half. You have every SINGLE offensive play caller who calls from the field hiding their lips when they call. You have most(if not all) defensive play callers hiding their calls(the Eagles do this every time, and most teams who play in Green Bay do it..hmmm) with a player standing in front of the call or with a towel. You have this from Don Banks last July(before spy gate):

Teams have also been chastised for having a second camera in the press box-area video box, with one camera shooting the game action and the other one being trained on the opposing team's signal-givers. On offense, that's why coaches have taken to holding their play-calling charts in front of their mouths when they're sending in the play to the quarterback via the radio headset system.

On defense, teams have gone to having two different signal callers, with one being a dummy signaler and other being responsible for the "hot,'' or real, call. Other teams use different color wrist bands during a game, with the defensive captain switching to a different color before each series, and the defensive signal-caller calling formations and blitzes from a list that corresponds with that color.

"That type of sign-stealing goes on a ton in the league,'' said one NFL source who was both a former coach and player in the league. "From a coaching standpoint, you know who's signaling in the personnel on the opposing sideline, and then there's another guy making the play calls on the headset. Defenses used to watch the play-caller, and if a guy spoke for a real long time, that was usually a pass, because the calls take longer. A run is always a shorter call. So coaches shield their mouths when they're calling plays now. If you make your calls out in the open, the other team will steal your signals and your tendencies.''

And he mentions that every team got a letter from the league about taping signals in 2006(btw, the Jets and Pats were both doing it apparently).

You and I will never agree on the Pats. I hate them with a passion although respect them. 2 more games for that coveted undefeated spygate season.

Fine. Hate them. I don't like them, but I respect them. But your campaign against them is getting Quixotic. And "zzzzzzz" to "spygate". They didn't use it after the first half of the first game(NFL security was watching them closely). So obviously taping signals didn't help them, right?

[give_portis_the_rock]

He's right WarEagle. I mean, how can you not see that these Patriots are really a mediocre team led by a horrible QB that is just winning every game because they did what almost every other team in the NFL does and got caught in the first half of the first game of the season?

Who cares how good they are?
You don't root for a team because they're good -- that's called being a bandwagoner.

[PyroGenic]

The Chargers taunt the opposing crowd, opposing players-while they're on the field between plays, and their star defender is a roid head. Yet the Pats are the cheaters/arrogant ones. Go figure.

Isn't running up the score the ultimate show of arrogance? I don't even know why that's necessarily a bad thing, it just shows that they have a killer instinct which is needed for greatness. If it sounds like I have a negative attitude towards the pats, I don't mean to. I'm just acknowledging that people can have some what valid reasons to hate them, I don't really share those sentiments.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Did you see the look on his face when he was faking the throw? I mean, he had "arrogance" written all over it. I mean, as a fan of the game, and as a person, I was just deeply offended by that play. And by the whole Patriots season.

You really think you're funny, don't you? You think you're above the fray because you make sarcastic remarks?

Stay on subject. How is running a fake like that being arrogant?

How often do you see a QB make that hand gesture on a normal handoff? I've never seen it. So that leads me to believe that he was not doing this to "Sell the fake" (which is apparently what people are arguing). I think it was to "be cute."

And it's not like I don't have historical precedent. The Pats always pull these stunts. Putting Testaverde in the game so he gets that record (even though it was a blowout), the dropkick for Flutie, running up the score against a number of teams (including OUR Skins), putting in Vrabel on offensive snaps.

And let me ask you this, about everyone dismissing the spying scandal as "no big deal." If it was no big deal, and it TRULY had no impact on the outcome of the game -- why in God's name are they doing it to begin with? OBVIOUSLY, spying gives an edge. Just like HGH (Rodney, I'm looking in your direction). People really are forgiving when it comes to the Pats. I don't know why, but they are.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Isn't running up the score the ultimate show of arrogance? I don't even know why that's necessarily a bad thing, it just shows that they have a killer instinct which is needed for greatness. If it sounds like I have a negative attitude towards the pats, I don't mean to. I'm just acknowledging that people can have some what valid reasons to hate them, I don't really share those sentiments.

Ryan posted a link here, it had a statement by Bruschi, in a 30-7 win over Pittsburgh -- that he "lost his respect" for the Steelers because they were trying to score a second consolation touchdown in the final minutes.

In other words, they give themselves the right to try to score when they're UP big, but cannot afford that right to a team which is DOWN big.

The way I see it is this, anyone who's not a Patriots fan -- they gotta hate em. I just don't understand the mentality of the people who don't, to be honest. 17-0 would have been reason enough for me, but their complete classlessness and shady doings put them over the top.

[PyroGenic]

Who cares how good they are?
You don't root for a team because they're good -- that's called being a bandwagoner.

Isn't there a difference between specifically rooting for a team and rooting for a chance to see history? I think that in almost every instance of "rooting" for the pats on this forum, it was preceded by saying that they wouldn't mind seeing history in the making. I don't think calling die-hard fans on this forum bandwagoners for the sole purpose of seeing the first 19-0 season is fair. Would you call me a bandwagoner for wanting to see Favre winning it all for a nice story? Really, it isn't really a strong feeling of wanting a team to win, it's more me not wanting the giants (forget those guys) or the chargers (buncha jerks headed by norvald) to win bunched in with the possibility of interesting scenarios (old guy and perfect season). Obviously I can't speak for other people but I'm sure at least some of my feelings are shared in this.

[akhhorus]

You really think you're funny, don't you? You think you're above the fray because you make sarcastic remarks?

Thats not really an answer to his point, is it?

How often do you see a QB make that hand gesture on a normal handoff? I've never seen it. So that leads me to believe that he was not doing this to "Sell the fake" (which is apparently what people are arguing). I think it was to "be cute."

Brett Favre for a decade did a move where it looks like he fumbled a shotgun snap over his head on the direct snap to the RB. I guess he's "being cute"? It was a great fake. Doesn't make him arrogant or anything unless you're just looking for anything to bitch about.

And it's not like I don't have historical precedent. The Pats always pull these stunts. Putting Testaverde in the game so he gets that record (even though it was a blowout), the dropkick for Flutie, running up the score against a number of teams (including OUR Skins), putting in Vrabel on offensive snaps.

Huh? So since the skins are jerks for putting in Lorenzo Alexander or Sean Taylor on offense under Gibbs eh? And you're really desperate if you're using the drop kick or playing Vinny(who was the 3rd string QB btw) so he can get the record.

And let me ask you this, about everyone dismissing the spying scandal as "no big deal." If it was no big deal, and it TRULY had no impact on the outcome of the game -- why in God's name are they doing it to begin with? OBVIOUSLY, spying gives an edge. Just like HGH (Rodney, I'm looking in your direction). People really are forgiving when it comes to the Pats. I don't know why, but they are.

And if the Pats just used a couple assistants to watch the coach(like most teams do) and without a video camera, its perfectly legal. So the NFL has no problem with stealing signals, you just can't video tape it.

Ryan posted a link here, it had a statement by Bruschi, in a 30-7 win over Pittsburgh -- that he "lost his respect" for the Steelers because they were trying to score a second consolation touchdown in the final minutes.

In other words, they give themselves the right to try to score when they're UP big, but cannot afford that right to a team which is DOWN big.

The way I see it is this, anyone who's not a Patriots fan -- they gotta hate em. I just don't understand the mentality of the people who don't, to be honest. 17-0 would have been reason enough for me, but their complete classlessness and shady doings put them over the top.

Huh? So the Pats are jerks because they criticized the Steelers for going for a TD that couldn't mean anything? You're getting very desperate here.

Isn't there a difference between specifically rooting for a team and rooting for a chance to see history? I think that in almost every instance of "rooting" for the pats on this forum, it was preceded by saying that they wouldn't mind seeing history in the making. I don't think calling die-hard fans on this forum bandwagoners for the sole purpose of seeing the first 19-0 season is fair. Would you call me a bandwagoner for wanting to see Favre winning it all for a nice story? Really, it isn't really a strong feeling of wanting a team to win, it's more me not wanting the giants (forget those guys) or the chargers (buncha jerks headed by norvald) to win bunched in with the possibility of interesting scenarios (old guy and perfect season). Obviously I can't speak for other people but I'm sure at least some of my feelings are shared in this.

Bingo. Now that the Skins are out of it, I hope the Pats win it all because I can appreciate greatness. I don't fall into this bitter cultural trap and want to tear down who's on top just because they're there.

[PyroGenic]

The way I see it is this, anyone who's not a Patriots fan -- they gotta hate em. I just don't understand the mentality of the people who don't, to be honest. 17-0 would have been reason enough for me, but their complete classlessness and shady doings put them over the top.

Dude, I seriously don't care. The HGH was unfortunate but Harrison did his time so what else do you want from him? It's sad that players have to resort to illegal drugs to try and stay around and play the game or improve their performance, but it happens and a punishment was created for it.

As for spygate: good jebus how long is this going to be an issue. The pats video tape ONE half of a game, get busted and it explodes into this huge thing about how the pats dynasty is tarnished. The fact is that the video tape is useless since teams switch up signals at the half (and sometimes more frequently than that) and I think that the pats only got fined as much as they did because the media incessantly ran it (but hey, it made for a juicy story, right?). The only difference between what they did and what other teams do is that they had it on a home video... which was seized.

Given, there's no telling how long they've done it, but there's also no evidence to prove that they've done it for longer than one game. The fact that Mangini knew about it suggests that they've done it for at least 2 years and the fact that the jets did the same exact thing also implies that Mangini picked up the habbit from his old boss, but this is all speculation. I'm willing to give the pats the benefit of the doubt because I'm an American :)

[give_portis_the_rock]

I haven't seen Favre do it, but I'm not really a fan of Favre anyway. I think he is selfishly putting his own personal goals above the future of his team.

If having assistants steal defensive signals had the same affect as video taping defensive signals, why would the Patriots put so much on the line in order to video tape signals? If oregano worked as good as weed, you think anyone would be smoking weed? Come on, Bill Belichick is a football genius, he wouldn't risk a draft pick for no reason.

Lorenzo Alexander is a big body. Sean Taylor is elusive. These are guys who can't play every offensive snap, but they bring SOMETHING to the table that none of our other players do. What can Vrabel do, as a receiver out of the backfield -- that Watson or Kyle Brady or any other Patriot fullback or tight end can't?

They tried frantically to score against us when they were up 45-0. So no, I'm not getting desperate by pointing out Bruschi's hypocrisy.

Cheating coach who seems to go out of his way to be a jackass, pretty boy quarterback who yells at his offensive linemen for a false start penalty in a game which his team leads by 45 points (that was the Skins game), a dirty safety who juices and taunts, a dirty defensive lineman who doesn't seem to get called for his "Extra curricular activities," a linebacker who is OK with his own team throwing deep and going no huddle when they're up big but somehow finds it "classless" that the losing team does the same, arrogant boorish fans who whine and bitch about not getting enough credit for their "perfect" season even though no one in sports media has uttered a word about football this season without mentioning their team, bandwagon fans buying jerseys at an alarming rate.

I'm sorry, but I don't care about history if it involves that team winning. In fact, I would take greater pleasure in witnessing another historic event unfold -- the already crowned "perfect season" team choking in the postseason. I guess it's something in my blood, I dislike unlikeable teams.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Dude, I seriously don't care. The HGH was unfortunate but Harrison did his time so what else do you want from him? It's sad that players have to resort to illegal drugs to try and stay around and play the game or improve their performance, but it happens and a punishment was created for it.

As for spygate: good jebus how long is this going to be an issue. The pats video tape ONE half of a game, get busted and it explodes into this huge thing about how the pats dynasty is tarnished. The fact is that the video tape is useless since teams switch up signals at the half (and sometimes more frequently than that) and I think that the pats only got fined as much as they did because the media incessantly ran it (but hey, it made for a juicy story, right?). The only difference between what they did and what other teams do is that they had it on a home video... which was seized.

Given, there's no telling how long they've done it, but there's also no evidence to prove that they've done it for longer than one game. The fact that Mangini knew about it suggests that they've done it for at least 2 years and the fact that the jets did the same exact thing also implies that Mangini picked up the habbit from his old boss, but this is all speculation. I'm willing to give the pats the benefit of the doubt because I'm an American :)

I don't have any evidence for them using it for other games.
I really don't think that's relevant though, since I never denied the legitimacy of their past championship seasons.

But bottom line is, if that didn't give them an edge they would never have done it. So I don't see why some people want to dismiss it so soon.

[akhhorus]

I haven't seen Favre do it, but I'm not really a fan of Favre anyway. I think he is selfishly putting his own personal goals above the future of his team.

Its a good idea to fake like that. Not arrogant or anything. Its a good move, especially in the red zone. If you're trying to use this to slam the Pats with, you have nothing.

If having assistants steal defensive signals had the same affect as video taping defensive signals, why would the Patriots put so much on the line in order to video tape signals? If oregano worked as good as weed, you think anyone would be smoking weed? Come on, Bill Belichick is a football genius, he wouldn't risk a draft pick for no reason.

Who said he was aware he was risking a draft pick? Thats what your blather is premised on. Read my response to skinsinator about stealing signals.

Lorenzo Alexander is a big body. Sean Taylor is elusive. These are guys who can't play every offensive snap, but they bring SOMETHING to the table that none of our other players do. What can Vrabel do, as a receiver out of the backfield -- that Watson or Kyle Brady or any other Patriot fullback or tight end can't?

What? So, the Skins send alexander out on pass routes rarely, put Taylor at WR, but the Pats are douches for sending Vrabel(who has great hands) out on goalline packages. This is pathetic if this is what you're criticizing the Pats for.

They tried frantically to score against us when they were up 45-0. So no, I'm not getting desperate by pointing out Bruschi's hypocrisy.

They weren't frantic against us for any of their scores lol. And a team scoring a meaningless TD is pathetic frankly.

Cheating coach who seems to go out of his way to be a jackass,

Nonsense.

pretty boy quarterback who yells at his offensive linemen for a false start penalty in a game which his team leads by 45 points (that was the Skins game)

This is pathetic. So because Brady wants his players to focus on the field no matter what, the Pats are douches?

a dirty safety who juices and taunts

Shawn Merriman on line 1 for you.

a dirty defensive lineman who doesn't seem to get called for his "Extra curricular activities,"

Huh? Do you want to get into a discussion about players who are dirty? So since Vince Wilfolk poked Brandon Jacobs in the eye, the Pats are douches? Wilfolk was fined for that.

a linebacker who is OK with his own team throwing deep and going no huddle when they're up big but somehow finds it "classless" that the losing team does the same

Its not doing the same. If you can't see the difference, then discussion is pointless with you.

arrogant boorish fans

Ok, I grant that the Boston fans are jerks. But so what?

who whine and bitch about not getting enough credit for their "perfect" season even though no one in sports media has uttered a word about football this season without mentioning their team, bandwagon fans buying jerseys at an alarming rate.

So?

I'm sorry, but I don't care about history if it involves that team winning. In fact, I would take greater pleasure in witnessing another historic event unfold -- the already crowned "perfect season" team choking in the postseason. I guess it's something in my blood, I dislike unlikeable teams.

Like I said; the American cultural trap about wanting to tear down whats better than them. Its like why it was hip to hate the Yankees(and now the BoSox). I'll appreciate the greatness of their season and hope the Skins can emulate them. You go ahead and be bitter.

[PyroGenic]

I don't have any evidence for them using it for other games.
I really don't think that's relevant though, since I never denied the legitimacy of their past championship seasons.

But bottom line is, if that didn't give them an edge they would never have done it. So I don't see why some people want to dismiss it so soon.

Maybe because it was for HALF of a game. HALF. They weren't gonna lose that game anyway. So yeah. HALF.

Even though I was quoting you, I talked about the mass of angry people out there that claim it did. Sorry if that led to any confusion, I probably went off in a tangent.

Oh, what extra curricular activities were you referring to regarding one of the pats line backers? I hadn't heard anything negative about the seniors filling their LB corps.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Don't try to change your argument. I never called them douches or lucky. You insinuated that every other team steals defensive signals also. I disagree and I'm waiting for you to change my mind.

The end result is the same as other teams (stealing signals), but the means of doing so was different (slightly elevated angle). I have no idea why people think its such a big deal, especially since that tactic could only be used to taint the first game of the season (and no, the pats wouldn't have lost to the jets, especially since they change up signals at the half). Most people don't even realize how minuscule an issue this is, the phrase "cheating" blew everything out of proportion and turned the masses into a lynch mob.

If you don't think every team does this, just take a gander at the guy in the cap calling the plays. He's not being shy behind that piece of paper, everybody knows that most, if not all teams, hire some slimey little guy to try to break the teams code. It's just a part of the game.

What's ironic is that the more people play up the cheater angle, the more motivation the pats get. So the more you don't want them to win, the more they kick your butt. I'm not a pats fan, I'm just tired of whiners.
What he said. (I actually thought it really was pretty obvious and that everybody knew that all teams try to steal defensive signals)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Who cares how good they are?
You don't root for a team because they're good -- that's called being a bandwagoner.
Did WarEagle ever say he was a Patriots fan? He claimed that he likes the Pats because he used to live in the New England area. Which is perfectly understandable.
You really think you're funny, don't you? You think you're above the fray because you make sarcastic remarks?

As for being funny, I don't know, that's for others to judge. As for being above the fray, if you mean thinking I am smarter than some other people, well, definitely yes. I do think I am not stupid enough to think that what Brady did on that play (a play that resulted in a TD pass in a very important game) was "arrogant". If anybody seriously thinks that, then they have real problems.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

How often do you see a QB make that hand gesture on a normal handoff? I've never seen it. So that leads me to believe that he was not doing this to "Sell the fake" (which is apparently what people are arguing). I think it was to "be cute."
Oh, one more thing, since you apparently only read some of the posts, and not the totality of the thread:
H-E W-A-S N-O-T F-A-K-I-N-G A N-O-R-M-A-L H-A-N-D-O-F-F.
H-E W-A-S F-A-K-I-N-G A D-I-R-E-C-T S-N-A-P T-O T-H-E R-U-N-N-I-N-G B-A-C-K.

Do you need me to be any more clear? Do you want me to draw you a picture?

[give_portis_the_rock]

Akh,
If it's pathetic for a losing team to try to get a meaningless score, how can you not say the same about the winning team? And when I say "frantic" I don't mean it literally. They were running their offence out of the shotgun and going no huddle -- they were up 45 in the fourth quarter. So that's not pathetic in your opinion?

[akhhorus]

Akh,
If it's pathetic for a losing team to try to get a meaningless score, how can you not say the same about the winning team? And when I say "frantic" I don't mean it literally. They were running their offence out of the shotgun and going no huddle -- they were up 45 in the fourth quarter. So that's not pathetic in your opinion?

No, I was hoping the skins would show some pride and stop them, but they were incapable of that against them. For all the bitching we all do here about the skins playing soft and passive when they get up to a lead, here's the ultimate example of a team that doesn't do that. Its not pathetic, its football. Rough as it may be. A team thats down multiple scores going for a meaningless touchdown is pathetic(especially when they celebrate it).

[give_portis_the_rock]

No, I was hoping the skins would show some pride and stop them, but they were incapable of that against them. For all the bitching we all do here about the skins playing soft and passive when they get up to a lead, here's the ultimate example of a team that doesn't do that. Its not pathetic, its football. Rough as it may be. A team thats down multiple scores going for a meaningless touchdown is pathetic(especially when they celebrate it).

Our 4th quarter breakdowns were with 7, 10, 14 point leads
Not with 45 points leads

Running up the score is indefensible, and you know what? When Tom Brady rushed onto the field to congratulate Matt Cassell on his TD run, I thought THAT looked pretty pathetic. Cooley didn't celebrate on our "meaningless" shutout preventing TD, nor did Campbell or anyone else on the team.

So lemme clarify this because I'm still not sure where you stand.
Pats up big, it's OK if they're still throwing deep and going no huddle, and when they score it's perfectly fine for them to celebrate.

But another team is down big, they should lay down and deal with it or they're "pathetic?" I hope you see the hypocrisy in what you're saying.

[akhhorus]

Our 4th quarter breakdowns were with 7, 10, 14 point leads
Not with 45 points leads

That doesn't matter. With a 3 point lead or a 30 point lead we shouldn't start running 3 times into the line and punting.

Running up the score is indefensible, and you know what? When Tom Brady rushed onto the field to congratulate Matt Cassell on his TD run, I thought THAT looked pretty pathetic. Cooley didn't celebrate on our "meaningless" shutout preventing TD, nor did Campbell or anyone else on the team.

So lemme clarify this because I'm still not sure where you stand.
Pats up big, it's OK if they're still throwing deep and going no huddle, and when they score it's perfectly fine for them to celebrate.

But another team is down big, they should lay down and deal with it or they're "pathetic?" I hope you see the hypocrisy in what you're saying.

Celebrating a touchdown that means you only lost by 20 points instead of 27 is pathetic, playing until the whistle blows isn't and I'm not being hypocritical.

[skinfanjon]

This thread is fun, lol.

Basically, unless you are a fan of a rival team, disliking the Pats is called being a hater. The Skins don't count, we did that to ourselves. We deserved what we got. I was mad about it too, but I was more pissed that we played like a freaking JV team in that game. The Pats haven't done anything to us. Now, Colt fans, AFC East fans, Bronco fans, etc. hating on the Pats- this I can understand. But fans of neutral teams, such as the Redskins, fall into two categories. Either you're capable of appreciating greatness, or you're a hater. I am not a hater.

[InsomniaKiller]

This thread is fun, lol.

Basically, unless you are a fan of a rival team, disliking the Pats is called being a hater. The Skins don't count, we did that to ourselves. We deserved what we got. I was mad about it too, but I was more pissed that we played like a freaking JV team in that game. The Pats haven't done anything to us. Now, Colt fans, AFC East fans, Bronco fans, etc. hating on the Pats- this I can understand. But fans of neutral teams, such as the Redskins, fall into two categories. Either you're capable of appreciating greatness, or you're a hater. I am not a hater.

Eh. It's the same as why I hated Terrell Owens before he ever came into the division. He was a talented player who never "did anything to us" but it was just impossible for me to root for him. If you don't care about the person you're cheering for and just appreciate seeing talent, I guess you've got no problem with him. That's fine.

So then we have New England. Great team. Lots of talent. But their coach bugs me. Wilfork bugs me. The lack of respect they show to other teams bugs me. That's not necessarily a reference to them running up the score, whether you think they do or not, but rather their excessive celebrations over points that don't matter and talking trash to coaches on the sideline. Tom Brady deciding he needs a sidejob as a male model bugs me. Spygate bugs me. Randy Moss proving that he really just didn't try for two years while he was collecting a ridiculous paycheck bugs me.

I didn't really care if they went 16-0. If they didn't get it, cool. Once they got to 14-0 I figured, "Oh, what the hell, I might not get to see this again. I'll watch and semi-hope that they pull it off." They did. Great. Now that Dallas is out of the playoffs, I don't want New England to win the Super Bowl.

They accomplished a lot of ridiculous things this year and deserve credit for all of it. They put together a season unlike anything anyone has ever seen.

History is going to be made one way or the other this year. It's either going to be the first perfect 19-0 team or it's going to be the most disappointing finish in NFL history.

Either way, it's going to be fun to watch, but I'd honestly rather see them choke. I'd rather not root for some of the people under the helmet.

I have no problem with anyone who would rather seem them win out, though. Makes sense. Just not really what I feel like seeing. :)

I just don't think it's hard to see where the "haters" are coming from on this at all.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

This thread is fun, lol.

Basically, unless you are a fan of a rival team, disliking the Pats is called being a hater. The Skins don't count, we did that to ourselves. We deserved what we got. I was mad about it too, but I was more pissed that we played like a freaking JV team in that game. The Pats haven't done anything to us. Now, Colt fans, AFC East fans, Bronco fans, etc. hating on the Pats- this I can understand. But fans of neutral teams, such as the Redskins, fall into two categories. Either you're capable of appreciating greatness, or you're a hater. I am not a hater.

***applause***

[give_portis_the_rock]

Eh. It's the same as why I hated Terrell Owens before he ever came into the division. He was a talented player who never "did anything to us" but it was just impossible for me to root for him. If you don't care about the person you're cheering for and just appreciate seeing talent, I guess you've got no problem with him. That's fine.

So then we have New England. Great team. Lots of talent. But their coach bugs me. Wilfork bugs me. The lack of respect they show to other teams bugs me. That's not necessarily a reference to them running up the score, whether you think they do or not, but rather their excessive celebrations over points that don't matter and talking trash to coaches on the sideline. Tom Brady deciding he needs a sidejob as a male model bugs me. Spygate bugs me. Randy Moss proving that he really just didn't try for two years while he was collecting a ridiculous paycheck bugs me.

I didn't really care if they went 16-0. If they didn't get it, cool. Once they got to 14-0 I figured, "Oh, what the hell, I might not get to see this again. I'll watch and semi-hope that they pull it off." They did. Great. Now that Dallas is out of the playoffs, I don't want New England to win the Super Bowl.

They accomplished a lot of ridiculous things this year and deserve credit for all of it. They put together a season unlike anything anyone has ever seen.

History is going to be made one way or the other this year. It's either going to be the first perfect 19-0 team or it's going to be the most disappointing finish in NFL history.

Either way, it's going to be fun to watch, but I'd honestly rather see them choke. I'd rather not root for some of the people under the helmet.

I have no problem with anyone who would rather seem them win out, though. Makes sense. Just not really what I feel like seeing. :)

I just don't think it's hard to see where the "haters" are coming from on this at all.

Exactly...

Celebrating a touchdown that means you only lost by 20 points instead of 27 is pathetic, playing until the whistle blows isn't and I'm not being hypocritical.

First of all, show me all these losing teams celebrating consolation TDs. Because I've never seen it.
On the other hand, show me the Pats celebrating pointless TDs. They have done it on many occasions this year.

And just because you say you're not being hypocritical doesn't make it so. Obviously you are OK with the Pats "playing until the whistle blows" but not so when the losing team does it. That is called hypocrisy, like it or not.

[redskin_rich]

This thread is fun, lol.

Basically, unless you are a fan of a rival team, disliking the Pats is called being a hater. The Skins don't count, we did that to ourselves. We deserved what we got. I was mad about it too, but I was more pissed that we played like a freaking JV team in that game. The Pats haven't done anything to us. Now, Colt fans, AFC East fans, Bronco fans, etc. hating on the Pats- this I can understand. But fans of neutral teams, such as the Redskins, fall into two categories. Either you're capable of appreciating greatness, or you're a hater. I am not a hater.
A lot of people wearing Patriots gear and flags on their car suddenly. Are they appreciating greatness or just bandwagoners?

I don't really have a problem with the Pats, other than Belichick's arrogance. I really don't have anything good to say about their fans though. Once this team starts to decline, I guess they'll go back in their hole or change up their gear to the next hottest team's colors.

I like hatin'.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8771/chappelletimehatersel8.jpg

[akhhorus]

And just because you say you're not being hypocritical doesn't make it so.

And just because you say I am doesn't make it so either :)

Obviously you are OK with the Pats "playing until the whistle blows" but not so when the losing team does it. That is called hypocrisy, like it or not.

Actually it can't be hypocrisy. Criticizing the Pats for running up the score, then being happy that the Skins(or another team) was doing it is hypocrisy.

[skinfanjon]

Eh. It's the same as why I hated Terrell Owens before he ever came into the division. He was a talented player who never "did anything to us" but it was just impossible for me to root for him. If you don't care about the person you're cheering for and just appreciate seeing talent, I guess you've got no problem with him. That's fine.

So then we have New England. Great team. Lots of talent. But their coach bugs me. Wilfork bugs me. The lack of respect they show to other teams bugs me. That's not necessarily a reference to them running up the score, whether you think they do or not, but rather their excessive celebrations over points that don't matter and talking trash to coaches on the sideline. Tom Brady deciding he needs a sidejob as a male model bugs me. Spygate bugs me. Randy Moss proving that he really just didn't try for two years while he was collecting a ridiculous paycheck bugs me.

I didn't really care if they went 16-0. If they didn't get it, cool. Once they got to 14-0 I figured, "Oh, what the hell, I might not get to see this again. I'll watch and semi-hope that they pull it off." They did. Great. Now that Dallas is out of the playoffs, I don't want New England to win the Super Bowl.

They accomplished a lot of ridiculous things this year and deserve credit for all of it. They put together a season unlike anything anyone has ever seen.

History is going to be made one way or the other this year. It's either going to be the first perfect 19-0 team or it's going to be the most disappointing finish in NFL history.

Either way, it's going to be fun to watch, but I'd honestly rather see them choke. I'd rather not root for some of the people under the helmet.

I have no problem with anyone who would rather seem them win out, though. Makes sense. Just not really what I feel like seeing. :)

I just don't think it's hard to see where the "haters" are coming from on this at all.


You're obviously a lot more level headed in your appraisal of the Patriots than several of the other posters in this thread. To each his own, but we're witnessing what is potentially the greatest team ever (if the go 19-0 it is not up for debate). I choose to sit back and enjoy watching perfection.

[skinfanjon]

A lot of people wearing Patriots gear and flags on their car suddenly. Are they appreciating greatness or just bandwagoners?

I don't really have a problem with the Pats, other than Belichick's arrogance. I really don't have anything good to say about their fans though. Once this team starts to decline, I guess they'll go back in their hole or change up their gear to the next hottest team's colors.

I like hatin'.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8771/chappelletimehatersel8.jpg

Thats a good point, Rich, and I'll concede that their fans are insufferable. I'm certainly not going out and buying a Pats hoody or anything, but I'd like to see them win it all.

[give_portis_the_rock]

And just because you say I am doesn't make it so either :)



Actually it can't be hypocrisy. Criticizing the Pats for running up the score, then being happy that the Skins(or another team) was doing it is hypocrisy.

I don't believe I was ever happy for another team doing it.
I think every team has a right to take that goose egg off the scoreboard.
Other than that, in a blowout game, I'd prefer if all the plays late in the game were running plays (whether the Skins are ahead or behind).

And how can't it be hypocrisy when you clearly stated that the Patriots are "playing to the final whistle" while a losing team who does the same is pathetic? I don't understand.

[akhhorus]

I don't believe I was ever happy for another team doing it.
I think every team has a right to take that goose egg off the scoreboard.
Other than that, in a blowout game, I'd prefer if all the plays late in the game were running plays (whether the Skins are ahead or behind).

And how can't it be hypocrisy when you clearly stated that the Patriots are "playing to the final whistle" while a losing team who does the same is pathetic? I don't understand.

I'm not going to go through a simple concept for someone for a fourth or fifth time. Especially someone looking for any reason to bitch about the Pats with.

[RedskinsDave]

Jesus H. Why is it so friggin hard to understand why the Pats aren't likable to great many people, most who aren't fans of direct rivals? If any one of you find it pathetic to dislike them, you should try being in our shoes watching non-fans fawn over them. Man crushes are not cool.

[BostonSkins]

If the Patriots had lost a game in the regular season would all of the "I appreciate Greatness" crowd still be rooting for them? This is a serious question, I'm curious if say Baltimore had pulled that upset if it would have made the team any less "great" in your eyes.

[akhhorus]

If the Patriots had lost a game in the regular season would all of the "I appreciate Greatness" crowd still be rooting for them? This is a serious question, I'm curious if say Baltimore had pulled that upset if it would have made the team any less "great" in your eyes.

They wouldn't be any different than any other 15-1 team then. They would be a great team, and I would still hope the Skins tried to emulate them, but its not the same.

[PyroGenic]

If the Patriots had lost a game in the regular season would all of the "I appreciate Greatness" crowd still be rooting for them? This is a serious question, I'm curious if say Baltimore had pulled that upset if it would have made the team any less "great" in your eyes.

Nope. Nothing significantly historical about losing once.

[skinfanjon]

Jesus H. Why is it so friggin hard to understand why the Pats aren't likable to great many people, most who aren't fans of direct rivals? If any one of you find it pathetic to dislike them, you should try being in our shoes watching non-fans fawn over them. Man crushes are not cool.

Just because they aren't particularly likeable doesn't mean you have to root for them to fail. I don't like them, but it would be cool to see a team go 19-0. I'm not fawning over anyone; they are the best team I've ever seen and they deserve every accolade they get.

Did you have anything against them before this season? Seriously. Is there some history as to why you don't like them, or did it just coincidentally start this season?

If the Patriots had lost a game in the regular season would all of the "I appreciate Greatness" crowd still be rooting for them? This is a serious question, I'm curious if say Baltimore had pulled that upset if it would have made the team any less "great" in your eyes.

No, I'd probably be rooting for the Packers because they would be the best story.

[RedskinsDave]

Just because they aren't particularly likeable doesn't mean you have to root for them to fail. I don't like them, but it would be cool to see a team go 19-0. I'm not fawning over anyone; they are the best team I've ever seen and they deserve every accolade they get.

Did you have anything against them before this season? Seriously. Is there some history as to why you don't like them, or did it just coincidentally start this season?

If I don't like them, then I am perfectly logical in rooting for them to fail. I haven't liked them for a long time. Do I need to justify my dislike to you for some reason?

[PyroGenic]

If I don't like them, then I am perfectly logical in rooting for them to fail. I haven't liked them for a long time. Do I need to justify my dislike to you for some reason?

That's personal preference. Only reason to argue after that would be if you came back and started arguing that others shouldn't "root" for them.

[skinfanjon]

If I don't like them, then I am perfectly logical in rooting for them to fail. I haven't liked them for a long time. Do I need to justify my dislike to you for some reason?

Well, your post addressed those of us who "think its pathetic", so naturally I responded. If you didn't expect response, why bother taking the time to post it?

[RedskinsDave]

Well, your post addressed those of us who "think its pathetic", so naturally I responded. If you didn't expect response, why bother taking the time to post it?

That wasn't the first comment from the fawning felines that the rest of us should bow and be thankful for the Pats greatness. That's why I commented.

[WarEagle]

If the Patriots had lost a game in the regular season would all of the "I appreciate Greatness" crowd still be rooting for them? This is a serious question, I'm curious if say Baltimore had pulled that upset if it would have made the team any less "great" in your eyes.

This is like questioning the fans' motives and intentions for wanting to see Mark Spitz win the remaining 4 events after he won his 3rd gold medal. Spontaneous massive public fascination and support, also called bandwagoning, is a natural human condition, and to curse it is folly.

If the Pats had lost a game or two this season, they'd still be the rock star of the playoffs because of the dynasty thing, the weird head coach, and the magical QB. Green Bay is the second big story.

[WarEagle]

If I don't like them, then I am perfectly logical in rooting for them to fail. I haven't liked them for a long time. Do I need to justify my dislike to you for some reason?

Dave hates everything Boston. Even the chowdah.

[skinfanjon]

This is like questioning the fans' motives and intentions for wanting to see Mark Spitz win the remaining 4 events after he won his 3rd gold medal. Spontaneous massive public fascination and support, also called bandwagoning, is a natural human condition, and to curse it is folly.

If the Pats had lost a game or two this season, they'd still be the rock star of the playoffs because of the dynasty thing, the weird head coach, and the magical QB. Green Bay is the second big story.

There is a huge difference between bandwagoning and having a rooting interest. Bandwagoning is claiming to be a part of the accomplishment. I doubt anyone on this board is wearing their Patriots pajamas to sleep at night, and if they are, well... thats just pitiful. I don't have any special affinity toward their franchise and I won't be upset if they don't fullfill the accomplishment, but I would like to see it happen.

Besides, I'm pretty sure Dallass has already scooped up all available bandwagoners anyway.

[Syllable]

If I don't like them, then I am perfectly logical in rooting for them to fail. I haven't liked them for a long time. Do I need to justify my dislike to you for some reason?

Agree