Rooney Rule formalties, or actual candidates?

[cal_junior]

On today's D.C. Sports Bog, Dan Steinberg talks about something which has bothered me for some time - the fact that with every minority candidate associated with the Redskins, the media mentions the Rooney Rule before talking about their credentials - if they mention them at all.

Is it possible for the media to mention Jim Caldwell or Ron Meeks and not mention the Rooney Rule? Apparently not. For the past week, every time we hear about one of these guys and the Redskins, we hear that interviewing them would allow the Skins satisfy the league's requirements to speak with a minority candidate. Sometimes, we even hear about their qualifications.

In the past three years, Meeks-aided Indy offenses (he's the QB coach) have ranked 5th, 3rd and 3rd in the NFL.

In the past three years, Caldwell's Indy defenses have ranked 3rd, 21st and 11th in the NFL.

By way of comparison, in the past three years, Gregg Williams's defenses have ranked 8th, 31st and 9th in the NFL.

Obviously, Gregg Williams has both the backing of his players and the benefit of consistency, so I certainly have no problem with media members beating the Williams drum. But they've also beaten plenty of other less defensible drums over the past week. Why Not Schottenheimer, for example. Don Banks took time to lovingly caress the candidacy of Jim Schwartz, as did Michael David Smith, who also likes Jim Mora. Other publications have also thrown Pete Carroll and Brian Billick out there as potential candidates. Matt Mosley mentioned Williams, Cowher, Grimm, Sporano and Schwartz. WTEM spent plenty of time discussing Grimm. Mike and Mike spent plenty of time discussing Carroll. And so on.

The Washington Post ran a chart after Gibbs retired, listing the candidates as Cowher, Williams, Grimm and Rooney Rule. The AP's early take was Cowher, Williams, Saunders and Rooney Rule. The Washington Times identified Cowher, Williams, Saunders, Grimm, Pete Carroll and Rooney Rule.

This is what I'd argue: Rooney Rule or no Rooney Rule, it shouldn't be that much of a stretch for media members to identify legitimate minority head coaching candidates, such as the defensive coordinator or QB coach for the defending Super Bowl champion, men who have never gotten head coaching shots and whose units ranked 5th and 3rd in the NFL this year.

The fact is, it remains absurd for a league whose players are majority black to have just seven black head coaches. Ownership needed a kick from behind to help change that, and the media apparently does too, since even with the benefit of time every mention of Caldwell or Meeks is quickly followed with "would satisfy the league's Rooney Rule."

Preach on, brother. I agree 100 percent.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/01/the_media_and_the_rooney_rule.html

[dj_stouty]

Its catch 22.

The sad fact is that there will be minority candiates interviewed for head coaching jobs for no other reason than to fullfill the Rooney rule, and the media is always going to assume this to be the case. One particular example close to home for us was when Snyder interviewed Dennis Green in '04 knowing full well that Gibbs was going to be the lock hire. I don't see how wasting Green's time made any strides for this program.

The media is also on the lookout for the next team to disobey the rule; like the Lions did a few seasons ago.

But there are times when a FO doesn't have a frontrunner and they will compile a list of legitimate canidates and its good for them to seriously look at the minority talent from around the league. I just question if making it manditory makes any difference these days. Teams need coaches who can turn their clubs into winners quickly, and all they need to do is look at some of the current success stories (Tomlin, Lovie, Crennel) to know a minority coach can do that for them.

[CNYSkinFan]

yeha but Mike Tomlin was a direct beneficiary of the rooney rule. I am glad it is there....it is pretty weak but it is at least a start.

[dj_stouty]

yeha but Mike Tomlin was a direct beneficiary of the rooney rule. I am glad it is there....it is pretty weak but it is at least a start.

Was he? I don't believe the Steelers ever came out and officially claimed that.

Maybe...maybe not, but I know it is probably in the best interest of Dan Rooney to say it did considering it's his rule; but I've never heard him personally thank the rule for them hiring Tomlin.

[cal_junior]

Was he? I don't believe the Steelers ever came out and officially claimed that.

Maybe...maybe not, but I know it is probably in the best interest of Dan Rooney to say it did considering it's his rule; but I've never heard him personally thank the rule for them hiring Tomlin.

The three finalists for the job were Tomlin, Russ Grimm and Ron Rivera. And I think they interviewed Whisenhunt early on.

[smoak]

the problem is the rooney rule creates this circus rather than fostering a better environment for ensuring the best candidates have equal opportunity to interview. i think it is time to evolve a more complex way tio achieve the desired result.

[CNYSkinFan]

Was he? I don't believe the Steelers ever came out and officially claimed that.

Maybe...maybe not, but I know it is probably in the best interest of Dan Rooney to say it did considering it's his rule; but I've never heard him personally thank the rule for them hiring Tomlin.
I remember hearing around the time that he was the rooney requirement and then he blew away the management in the interview and got hired...

In the old days perhaps they didn't even do an interview process and just hired wisenhunt?

I think it is a good rule and it raises the profile of some assistant coaches that should be considered for real. It's not p[erfect, but considering the track record of the NFl before that something was needed.

[dj_stouty]

I remember hearing around the time that he was the rooney requirement and then he blew away the management in the interview and got hired...

I remember hearing how he blew them away during his interview, and that is a big reason Grimm got turned down; but I've never heard Pittsburgh say the only reason they interviewed him was because they needed to fullfill the Rooney Requirement.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

the problem is the rooney rule creates this circus rather than fostering a better environment for ensuring the best candidates have equal opportunity to interview. i think it is time to evolve a more complex way tio achieve the desired result.

Or perhaps the media idiots get their collective heads out of their butts and stop using the rule as a crutch for good research to determine what candidates a team will interview and which candidates may be a good fit with or without the rule.

Generally I like the press, but I am getting a little sick of them lately.

More to the point, the rule is bringing more names to the conversation that may not have gotten into the conversation otherwise. For that reason, I think it is a good rule.

[CNYSkinFan]

I remember hearing how he blew them away during his interview, and that is a big reason Grimm got turned down; but I've never heard Pittsburgh say the only reason they interviewed him was because they needed to fullfill the Rooney Requirement.
Well he was the only minority interviewed....maybe he would have been interviewed...maybe not. But I think you can make an argument before the Rooney rule he may have been looked over.

I guess I don't see why this is such a problem for some people. The NFL is not mandating you hire someone, only that you interview someone. The fact that teams are interviewing competent minority candidates like caldwell and tomlin means they are actually complying with the spirit of the rule and it is working.

[dj_stouty]

Well he was the only minority interviewed....maybe he would have been interviewed...maybe not. But I think you can make an argument before the Rooney rule he may have been looked over.

I'd buy that if Rooney came right out and said the rule was responsible, but I never heard that. Plus, Tomlin was the hottest DC on the market at the time, so its not out of the question to think he wouldn't have been interviewed anyway. I just dont' understand why the guy who is personally responsible for the rule wouldn't give it credit for their minority hire.

There is zero problem with the NFL encouraging teams to interview minorities. However, to borrow a phrase from Smoak, its a "circus" when you make it mandatory ~ which allows the press to sink their teeth into every minority interview and claim they are interviewed on the rule's basis and not the merits of the coach. And as I mentioned before, making it manditory makes a mockery of Snyder interviewing Denny Green when the entire time during the interview Danny is most likely going over his press conference speech in his head introducing Joe as the new head coach.

[Red Bear]

As the story on tomlin goes to some is that the league nudged the steelers/rooneys with an elbow a bit to hire a minority head coach since the rule is named for them, and that the job was initially given to grimm and pulled out from him rather swiftly. once again, this is according to some, but has never truely been verified...

[smoak]

I remember hearing how he blew them away during his interview, and that is a big reason Grimm got turned down; but I've never heard Pittsburgh say the only reason they interviewed him was because they needed to fullfill the Rooney Requirement.

Exactly. The only color the NFL sees now is green. Teams want the best guy for the job. Period. Granted different teams have different pay scales, but still.

[Hr fan]

yeha but Mike Tomlin was a direct beneficiary of the rooney rule. I am glad it is there....it is pretty weak but it is at least a start.

Agree. IMO Timlin was a Rooney Rule candidate that upset the apple-cart. In a league with few minority HCs or former HCs to satisfy the clear preference for recycling someone else's mistake new blood, particularly new minority blood (there are few former minority HCs as yet), faces an uphill climb for a job. IMO the winner has to make sense in football terms to the decision makers, so IMO the Rooney Rule is just a HC check-off item to the Danny and Vinnie. Neither understands the job of a HC in football terms enough, and neither has a legitimate long-term football success plan, items needed to make an informed decision. That would require a competent GM, but we already know if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Being able to get along with someone personally is not necessarily the best way to build a franchise.

[Keino]

Was he? I don't believe the Steelers ever came out and officially claimed that.

Maybe...maybe not, but I know it is probably in the best interest of Dan Rooney to say it did considering it's his rule; but I've never heard him personally thank the rule for them hiring Tomlin.

The fact of the matter is that any minority getting an opportunity to interview is a beneficiary of the policy. The policy was instituted because overwhelmingly, minority candidates were not getting that far.

Interviewing is a great thing. While you may not get the job, you put your name out there and if you impress, you will get a shot somewhere else. The issue was the "Ole Boy Network" and cracking into that. By impressing in a interview, a league exec will mention to his peers and thus more doors open.

The fact of the matter (at least IMO) is that in a league that is overwhelmingly black (Like 85%) it is a shame that less than 1/4 of middle management (Head Coaches are the ultimate mid-level managers). Upper Management is even worse, but progress must be made in increments.

[Meatsnack]

The fact of the matter is that any minority getting an opportunity to interview is a beneficiary of the policy. The policy was instituted because overwhelmingly, minority candidates were not getting that far.

Interviewing is a great thing. While you may not get the job, you put your name out there and if you impress, you will get a shot somewhere else. The issue was the "Ole Boy Network" and cracking into that. By impressing in a interview, a league exec will mention to his peers and thus more doors open.

The fact of the matter (at least IMO) is that in a league that is overwhelmingly black (Like 85%) it is a shame that less than 1/4 of middle management (Head Coaches are the ultimate mid-level managers). Upper Management is even worse, but progress must be made in increments.I don't disagree that progress can and should be made but why do the percentage of players being black reflect on the coaching and FO personnel? Should Coaches and FO personnel reflect the percentage of players? I have never considered those skill sets interchangeable - Terry Tate Office Linebacker aside. Is your point that minorities don't get interviewed for GM/Scout/FO positions?

[smoak]

I don't disagree that progress can and should be made but why do the percentage of players being black reflect on the coaching and FO personnel? Should Coaches and FO personnel reflect the percentage of players? I have never considered those skill sets interchangeable - Terry Tate Office Linebacker aside. Is your point that minorities don't get interviewed for GM/Scout/FO positions?

I can't begin to speak for keino, but in my mind you don't try to force a similar ratio or %, but you certainly should be concerned about the disparity. Any time you try to force a ratio or %, then teams are not taking the person they feel is the best candidate, and that causes problems. There would no difference there than caucasions demanding a better reflection of white represented on the field. It makes no sense given that you want to take the best regardless of color.

keino -
I understand and agree with your point to a large extent, but don't you think revision of the rule is in order? I'm not sold that the RR works... I mean I wouldn't want to be a minority head coaching candidate who is interviewed by a team that basically already had their guy b/c of a past working relationship (take the Dolphins with Sparano). I understand that simply interviewing helps, but I personally wouldn't want to be in that position. Not sure how others feel. I'd want to know that if I am flying to wherver for a day or two that I have every opportunity to get the job.

[RedskinRyan]

I kinda believe that Meeks and Caldwell are just being used to meet the Rooney Rule requirements. Doesn't anybody else find it odd that it is the same one(Caldwell) mentioned with every opening?

Last I checked, Dennis Green is available if anyone was interested. Mike Singletary's name has popped up, but he hasn't interviewed anywhere. Although I think he's expecting Nolan to get fired after this year, and then he'll take over. I wouldn't want to leave Patrick Willis either.

[Keino]

I can't begin to speak for keino, but in my mind you don't try to force a similar ratio or %, but you certainly should be concerned about the disparity. Any time you try to force a ratio or %, then teams are not taking the person they feel is the best candidate, and that causes problems. There would no difference there than caucasions demanding a better reflection of white represented on the field. It makes no sense given that you want to take the best regardless of color.

keino -
I understand and agree with your point to a large extent, but don't you think revision of the rule is in order? I'm not sold that the RR works... I mean I wouldn't want to be a minority head coaching candidate who is interviewed by a team that basically already had their guy b/c of a past working relationship (take the Dolphins with Sparano). I understand that simply interviewing helps, but I personally wouldn't want to be in that position. Not sure how others feel. I'd want to know that if I am flying to wherver for a day or two that I have every opportunity to get the job.

When the Rooney rule was instituted, I believe there were 2 African American Head Coaches. Now there are 7. Going from 1/8 to 1/4 is significant progress, and I would argue that the rule has done what it was intended to do. Increase opportunity.


Meatsnack, I think any industry should be worried that any disparity in it's grunts (Players) verses management (in terms of percentages of minorities) produces the perception of intentional inequality.

[Keino]

I kinda believe that Meeks and Caldwell are just being used to meet the Rooney Rule requirements. Doesn't anybody else find it odd that it is the same one(Caldwell) mentioned with every opening?

Last I checked, Dennis Green is available if anyone was interested. Mike Singletary's name has popped up, but he hasn't interviewed anywhere. Although I think he's expecting Nolan to get fired after this year, and then he'll take over. I wouldn't want to leave Patrick Willis either.

Yet Caldwell is being talked about as successor to Tony Dungy. I highly doubt that these are merely "requirement" interviews. I think people believe Caldwell can actually coach.

[CNYSkinFan]

Yet Caldwell is being talked about as successor to Tony Dungy. I highly doubt that these are merely "requirement" interviews. I think people believe Caldwell can actually coach.
and that is my point as well. I hate the word token, but I will use it here begrudgingly. The NFL teams complying with the rooney rule are not giving token interviews to people, they are giving well qualified individuals a chance to come in and impress, the way Tomlin did in Pittsburgh. It also has a long term effect when they guy you hire doesn't work out you can remember one of the guys you almost hired, and maybe one of them was a coach who satisfied the rooney requirement and all of a sudden he jumps to the top iof the list.

For example if the Redskins were merely satisfying their rooney requirement and satisfied with Williams, why not just interview Blache or Byner and then promote them for their troubles? No they are taking it seriously and bringing in Meeks and Caldwell and gauging their interest in coming to DC as well as their interest in them. If not for the Rooney rule there would be great pressure on Dan to hire Williams (or greater anyways) and these gusy would not even get a shot to come in and wow Him.

It is a decent rule, I like it.

[Meatsnack]

...

Meatsnack, I think any industry should be worried that any disparity in it's grunts (Players) verses management (in terms of percentages of minorities) produces the perception of intentional inequality.

That seems a pretty slippery slope. How much do you deliberately skew hiring numbers by race to control perception?

The Rooney rule, on its face, is a good idea in that it creates profile for assistant coaches who may be qualified but are relatively obscure outside their immediate circle. It may take several turns of the wheel to spin a winner but the idea that, with enough exposure, competence will out is a good one. One side efect is that more black head coaches has resulted in more black assistants who can eventually compete for head coaching jobs and the field starts to level.

The FO could be handled similarly but I am unsure if the interest is there. That is, if I base my premise on the idea that a GM should have an pre-leadership career of being a scout and then a director of scouting/player personnel chief corsus honorum prior to becoming a GM, then it presupposes that the mix of scouts (etc.) has enough minorities to support a Rooney Rule type implementation. I have no idea what the racial composition of those types of jobs are. And, certainly, there are enough GMs without that kind of background to compromise the premise (the recently retired Marv Levy and the recently hired Bill Parcells to name two). I do always wonder, though, how much collateral damage is done promoting color blindness through color based programs. I guess I am just cautious to the degree that I would need clear data to show inequality as a result of something directed.

[Keino]

That seems a pretty slippery slope. How much do you deliberately skew hiring numbers by race to control perception?

The numbers are skewed now because of the lack of opportunity in the past. The policy doesn't mandate hiring, only giving an interview. The Hiring has been a natural and anticipated result of the policy.

So I believe what you are really asking is "How much do you deliberately skew the numbers to make up for the past deliberate skewing of the numbers in the opposite direction?" the Answer of course is that you don't, you merely increase opportunity and the numbers will eventually balance, as has been the trend evidenced by the exponential growth in the number of Black head coaches since the rule was implemented.

So in my opinion, the slope is solid ground and not slippery at all.

The Rooney rule, on its face, is a good idea in that it creates profile for assistant coaches who may be qualified but are relatively obscure outside their immediate circle. It may take several turns of the wheel to spin a winner but the idea that, with enough exposure, competence will out is a good one. One side efect is that more black head coaches has resulted in more black assistants who can eventually compete for head coaching jobs and the field starts to level.

The FO could be handled similarly but I am unsure if the interest is there. That is, if I base my premise on the idea that a GM should have an pre-leadership career of being a scout and then a director of scouting/player personnel chief corsus honorum prior to becoming a GM, then it presupposes that the mix of scouts (etc.) has enough minorities to support a Rooney Rule type implementation. I have no idea what the racial composition of those types of jobs are. And, certainly, there are enough GMs without that kind of background to compromise the premise (the recently retired Marv Levy and the recently hired Bill Parcells to name two). I do always wonder, though, how much collateral damage is done promoting color blindness through color based programs. I guess I am just cautious to the degree that I would need clear data to show inequality as a result of something directed.


I think you leave the front office alone for now. The natural progression will be that with increased opportunity in the mid-level and subsequent success, there will be more opportunities at the executive level.