zorn 3 year deal

[gibbsisgod]

offense cord....no head coach all rumors no source

[csquared]

No source means it probably doesnt deserve its own thread.....

[rhummer37]

I just heard it on the John Riggins Show on MASN

[Biggie]

No link, no dice. I'll believe it when I see it from someone credible.

[thetrueyoung1]

i just heard it on Riggo's show also, but dosen't make much sense to hire an O-cord. unless your sure who your head coach is gonna be.

[gibbsisgod]

No link, no dice. I'll believe it when I see it from someone credible.

john clayton is pretty good.

[HAWGZHEAD]

i just heard it on Riggo's show also, but dosen't make much sense to hire an O-cord. unless your sure who your head coach is gonna be.
Tryin to keep up with the Jones' I guess.

[shally]

i just heard it on Riggo's show also, but dosen't make much sense to hire an O-cord. unless your sure who your head coach is gonna be.

workd for dallas last year

hope it is true. it means we will go defense for head coach and if it means a guy like spagnuolo i could not be happier.

speaks against it being caldwell or mcdaniel but leaves the door open for
guys like meeks or possibly even rex ryan

things willl fall into place

[Smiley]

I have a pretty good defensive guy for ya'....Gregg Williams.

[thetrueyoung1]

i actually would like to have a guy like rex ryan as HC even though we would need to make the side line larger so he would have room to walk back and forth

[smoak]

No source means it probably doesnt deserve its own thread.....

No, there is sometimes significant information that is first reported on the radio. That said, if a link isn't available within a couple hours or so, maybe this gets killed?

[CarMike]

No link, no dice. I'll believe it when I see it from someone credible.

gibbsisgod works at ESPN....Pretty good info usually.

[Biggie]

i actually would like to have a guy like rex ryan as HC even though we would need to make the side line larger so he would have room to walk back and forth
Dude, not cool.

[greatest2]

bye bye al, wish we had another year under you to see what you could do with a healthy team and no ropes around your hands.

welcome zorn, don't mess up

[Biggie]

gibbsisgod works at ESPN....Pretty good info usually.
Oh, does he? That changes things.

Sorry, GIG. I didn't know that you worked over there.

[akhhorus]

Barring some surprise, this probably means Spag or Rex Ryan will the be next coach.

[greatest2]

i still can't believe the one area of the team that needed the most continuity and that, maybe i am alone in this, i thought was going to shine next year with some luck health wise. and its gone, good job danny, good job

[greatest2]

Barring some surprise, this probably means Spag or Rex Ryan will the be next coach.

agree, i rather have rex. i wonder how much he would change and what the transition would be like on D

[rhummer37]

i still can't believe the one area of the team that needed the most continuity and that, maybe i am alone in this, i thought was going to shine next year with some luck health wise. and its gone, good job danny, good job


Why?

Why is it gone?

Cowboys did alright with their new staff last year

[bergiemoore]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3214785

The link is on ESPN.

[shally]

bye bye al, wish we had another year under you to see what you could do with a healthy team and no ropes around your hands.

welcome zorn, don't mess up

i expect a much more user friendly offense for JC

he should love this move

[smoak]

Why?

Why is it gone?

Cowboys did alright with their new staff last year

to my knowledge zorn has no link to this offense...

FYI -

Riggo just reported that the Redskins denied to comment.

[shally]

Why?

Why is it gone?

Cowboys did alright with their new staff last year

amen

this bespeaks a defensive oriented HC

[bergiemoore]

Isn't he a WCO guy?

Isn't this a whole new system for JC and the WRs to learn?

How similar is it to what the Skins were already running, and what will be required in terms of personnel to make it successful?

[shally]

Barring some surprise, this probably means Spag or Rex Ryan will the be next coach.

exactly as i see it..small chance for meeks

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Does this put Fassel back in play for HC?

[HAWGZHEAD]

This also proves that 90% percent of the articles we read are bull. Wasn't it just reported a couple of days ago he was definitely staying in Sea? Too much smoke and mirrors, we just hve to sit back and wait.

[rhummer37]

to my knowledge zorn has no link to this offense...

I don't care about continuity, Gibbs gone = continuity gone, move on

I meant to ask why our chace of success is gone; sounds like some want them to fail to punish Danny for waiting for a coach he was happy with

[gibbsisgod]

Oh, does he? That changes things.

Sorry, GIG. I didn't know that you worked over there.

no worries....httr

[bergiemoore]

Does this put Fassel back in play for HC?

God, I hope not.

This also proves that 90% percent of the articles we read are bull. Wasn't it just reported a couple of days ago he was definitely staying in Sea? Too much smoke and mirrors, we just hve to sit back and wait.

True Story.

[greatest2]

Why?

Why is it gone?

Cowboys did alright with their new staff last year

completly different playbook is why continuity offensively is gone. that playbook that took a year to learn is gone.

Don't get me wrong, i am NOT saying our offense will be bad next year because we got this guy and no more AL. what i am saying is i would have like to have seen al's offense with a healthy oline and a qb in his second year as starter. thats all. i really thought our offense was going to be good next year if we could just stay healthy, but we won't know if it would have under al. personally i think al got a raw deal.

anyway, zorn is a qb guy, and JC may not like it cause he has to learn yet another playbook, but it should benefit him to have such a guy. im guessing the playbook and calls will be more to his strengths. as in molding the playbook to him, then molding him to the playbook. which is a great thing

[GolfFreak]

Finally some news!!! I find it very strange though that we hire an OC before a head coach.

[greatest2]

Does this put Fassel back in play for HC?

yes, and doesn't that suck.

its reported on espn that rex is talking about an extension to stay in bmore, and of course we don't know about spag's.

man i hope we land either spag's or ryan. preferably ryan. again, i wonder the changes he will bring in personnel and scheme

[rhummer37]

We're coming up on PTI...

[Redskin006]

let's either aim for rex ryan or russ grimm as the head coach. they are logical choices and I would be happy with either as would the majority of redskins nation.

[smoak]

I don't care about continuity, Gibbs gone = continuity gone, move on

I meant to ask why our chace of success is gone; sounds like some want them to fail to punish Danny for waiting for a coach he was happy with

If someone doesn't feel that our chance of success is hurt by hiring omeone who is a disciple of a completely different system, then I don't know what to say...

BUT if we will I will gladly admit I was wrong and party like its 1992!!!

[greatest2]

let's either aim for rex ryan or russ grimm as the head coach. they are logical choices and I would be happy with either as would the majority of redskins nation.

count me as the majority. my wish list after this hire- grimm, rex, spag, me, elvis on 13th street, fassel

[techskinsfan]

let's either aim for rex ryan or russ grimm as the head coach. they are logical choices and I would be happy with either as would the majority of redskins nation.
i would be very happy with one of them...or both...but would grimm be a guy that would want to make the offensive calls?

[rhummer37]

If someone doesn't feel that our chance of success is hurt by hiring omeone who is a disciple of a completely different system, then I don't know what to say...

BUT if we will I will gladly admit I was wrong and party like its 1992!!!

What did you want to happen?

Williams as HC and Saunders as OC?

After 4 interviews, I believe Williams chances as HC were slim; and I kind of doubted that Saunders would stay around if another HC showed up- maybe not even with Williams (remember the "differences on football philosopies" article)

I figured they were both gone and think this is the best option for us TODAY

[greatest2]

i would be very happy with one of them...or both...but would grimm be a guy that would want to make the offensive calls?

i don't think grimm would have a burning desire to. he has been a very good oline coach, and i would expect him to do that here if he came, and then be a leader of the team. my question if we hire grimm, who is my choice now after this hire, is who will be DC?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Well, the Al Saunders experiment worked out real well didn't it?

[techskinsfan]

ha wilbon said well be talkin about this still in feburary...great news for us...i guess due diligence is a nice thing around these parts...as long as we get the right guy u can play catch-up on scouting and FA if were payin the guy 5+ mil a year he better be willing to put in that work...at least we get some news to speculate on...my question is how does Zorn effect the run game, more or less of an emphasis? zone blocking? i guess we wont find out til preseason

[greatest2]

Well, the Al Saunders experiment worked out real well didn't it?

i thought al got a raw deal. he was handcuffed, and then hit with major injuries as well as a pretty much rookie qb. i thought we had a chance to be very good offensively under him next year if we could just avoid the huge injuries we got this year.

but you are right, no matter the excuses of injuries/handcuff/rookie qb/year to learn system, he simply just didn't deliver. i thought he should have next year, but hopefully zorn is the jason g of next year

[rhummer37]

Ive heard some weird statements but this takes the cake. If the Skins had Gregg and Al they would have the same two playcallers and systems as last year. Thats continuity. All Gibbs did was mess up in critical situations and handcuff Al Saunders. I think Gregg and Al would of been a upgrade from Gibbs/Gregg/Al.

Williams/Saunders always emphasized that they conducted the team as Gibbs wanted them to do. No Gibbs = a change in the way the team is conducted

Continuity- we were going to bring Campbell back to play in a offense he was not excelling at when he left- is that in the best interest of the team?

[Redskin006]

i don't think grimm would have a burning desire to. he has been a very good oline coach, and i would expect him to do that here if he came, and then be a leader of the team. my question if we hire grimm, who is my choice now after this hire, is who will be DC?

i still think you have to go after rex ryan. if not, maybe trade gregg williams for jim schwartz. or another possibilty is Keith Butler, the linebackers coach for the steelers. He worked with Grimm for four years and has done a hell of a job with those linebackers and of course follows in the footsteps of the dick lebeau defense.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

i thought al got a raw deal. he was handcuffed, and then hit with major injuries as well as a pretty much rookie qb. i thought we had a chance to be very good offensively under him next year if we could just avoid the huge injuries we got this year.

but you are right, no matter the excuses of injuries/handcuff/rookie qb/year to learn system, he simply just didn't deliver. i thought he should have next year, but hopefully zorn is the jason g of next year
I actually think that Saunders was the least responsible person for the not overwhelming success of the offense. I think the man most responsible for that is Gibbs.

[Syllable]

I actually think that Saunders was the least responsible person for the not overwhelming success of the offense. I think the man most responsible for that is Gibbs.

Agree.

[Redskin4Life]

Hey all,

What about the idea of Zorn replacing Breaux and Burns (these guys are probably going to need to be replaced anyway). Breaux has the OC title. Simmons can move on as well, moving Lazor to TEs coach.

Then Zorn can be the OC and QB coach with Al Saunders as Associate HC, Gregg Williams as HC and Buges as Assistant HC (Jerry Gray would probably be the DC in this scenario). Continuity can still happen with this hire.

[cal_junior]

From the TWT. Haven't seen this link here yet:


We're hearing that Seahawks quarterbacks coach Jim Zorn has agreed to a three-year deal to be the Redskins' offensive coordinator. That means that associate head coach Al Saunders is a goner for sure.

How it affects the search for a head coach is unsure, but Redskins owner Dan Snyder was working on a trifecta of former Giants head coach Jim Fassel, Zorn and Baltimore defensive coordinator Rex Ryan. The third piece won't happen. The first one remains a question mark. But Zorn is apparently a done deal.

Will update with more info as soon as we have it.


http://video1.washingtontimes.com/redskins/2008/01/zorn_hired_david_elfin.html

[Syllable]

From the TWT. Haven't seen this link here yet:



http://video1.washingtontimes.com/redskins/2008/01/zorn_hired_david_elfin.html

I actually think we are more likely to steal Ryan from Balto than hiring fassel without Ryan.

[JasonCampbell]

JLC:

This is from Jason Reid: We've confirmed an ESPN report that Jim Zorn has been hired as the Redskins' new offensive coordinator even though a head coach has not been named. We reported a couple days ago that Zorn was at the top of Jim Fassel's list of potential offensive coordinators and is very highly regarded by Gregg Williams as well.
The hiring of Zorn likely means that associate head coach -- ofense Al Saunders is finished with the team. Owner Daniel Snyder and vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato were privately critical of the offense's performance under Saunders the past two seasons. The two were especially concerned, sources said, about the development of young quarterback Jason Campbell, whose progress is the organization's top priority.

[Lavar703]

i still can't believe the one area of the team that needed the most continuity and that, maybe i am alone in this, i thought was going to shine next year with some luck health wise. and its gone, good job danny, good job

What are you talking about? The offense was sputtering and Al never trusted Jason as his guy, this was a move that had to be made. Zorn is an excellent QBs coach and he will really develop JC into a stud, im excited about this pick up. People like to say Al was handcuffed by Gibbs, this is not true, he believed Campbell couldnt run his offense, if you dont believe that then look at the dramatic change when Collins came in.

[greatest2]

I actually think that Saunders was the least responsible person for the not overwhelming success of the offense. I think the man most responsible for that is Gibbs.

yup, thats why i wanted to see a year under al with a healthy oline and no handcuffs, but it won't happen, which is sad.

Tho i don't agree with this decision, i am not going crazy over it. I think zorn could be good for the team and for the development of our prime player in JC. i would rather have AL and i think it was more likely we have success with him next year then Zorn, but i do think zorn can have success here and i look forward to it

[cal_junior]

We reported a couple days ago that Zorn was at the top of Jim Fassel's list of potential offensive coordinators and is very highly regarded by Gregg Williams as well.

Translation: We got beat. By everybody.

[rhummer37]

I think Gregg knows how he runs a defense since he has had a top 10 defense 3 out of his 4 years in DC. I would of liked that to continue. Al Saunders had top 5 offenses in St. Louis and Kansas City. I woulf of liked to see what he could do if he wasnt handcuffed by Gibbs terrible 80s playcalling getting in the way.

As for Jason Campbell he did pretty damn well in the offense imo. He was growing as a QB and has made great improvement before the injury. Campbell never really could open up the offense with Gibbs holding him back. Now Campbell has to learn another offense his 6th offense in 7 years. I think this move is stupid and hurts Campbells growth. I didnt expect Campbell to have big numbers in Saunders offense this year since it was only his 1st full year as a starter. This year Campbell could of broken out in Saunders system. Instead we got to watch him learn another offense.

But that 1 year was rough as I remember it- players hated him and he was too hard-headed to adjust his scheme. I did "approve" of his job last year but I did not like the idea of him as HC. And more importantly- Danny did not like him as the HC.
Jason Campbell was struggling to end games. Atleast two of his final games ended with him throwing interceptions- not that it was his fault they lost the game though. However, ending games may not have had much to do with scheme (but for the future of the team, I hope it was).

I cannot gaurantee success, I just do not believe it ("shattered" continuity) was a sign of failure for next year and believe it was the best option at this point

I guess we will find out...HTTR

[greatest2]

What are you talking about? The offense was sputtering and Al never trusted Jason as his guy, this was a move that had to be made. Zorn is an excellent QBs coach and he will really develop JC into a stud, im excited about this pick up. People like to say Al was handcuffed by Gibbs, this is not true, he believed Campbell couldnt run his offense, if you dont believe that then look at the dramatic change when Collins came in.

what are you talking about? alot of people here believe al was handcuffed, not to mention losing your oline by week 2. i don't think i am alone when i say we expected big things from jc and the offense next year under al barring injuries. If you think that JC was not developing, and the offense wasn't handcuffed by gibbs or injuries then i don't know what to tell you. i thought we had a great chance to be a good offense next year under al with no handcuffs and no major injuries, but we won't know if al can get it done.

that doesn't mean zorn will direct a bad offense, i think he will do well, i just would have preffered al with no handcuffs to zorn.

[Lavar703]

I think Gregg knows how he runs a defense since he has had a top 10 defense 3 out of his 4 years in DC. I would of liked that to continue. Al Saunders had top 5 offenses in St. Louis and Kansas City. I woulf of liked to see what he could do if he wasnt handcuffed by Gibbs terrible 80s playcalling getting in the way.

As for Jason Campbell he did pretty damn well in the offense imo. He was growing as a QB and has made great improvement before the injury. Campbell never really could open up the offense with Gibbs holding him back. Now Campbell has to learn another offense his 6th offense in 7 years. I think this move is stupid and hurts Campbells growth. I didnt expect Campbell to have big numbers in Saunders offense this year since it was only his 1st full year as a starter. This year Campbell could of broken out in Saunders system. Instead we got to watch him learn another offense.

Top ten defense in terms of yardage, but always near the bottom in turnovers and sacks, and 06 he fielded possibly the worst defense in Redskins history not to mention one of the worst in NFL history. He made huge blunders when he let go Ryan Clark and picked up Adam Archuletta, not to mention his ego allowed Antonio Pierce to walk. He will never change his ways, so be ready to watch teams throw the ball 5 yards down the middle of the field and pick up huge chunks of yardafe because Landry, Doughty and Fletcher will be 10 to 25 yards off the ball, this is the reason New England absolutely destroyed us. If we didnt have Landry and Fletcher this defense would have been terrible, so im not convinced of his greatness yet and dont believe he has really accomplished anything to deserve this job, sorry.

[Charlz]

Originally Posted by JasonCampbell
JLC:
Quote:
"....Owner Daniel Snyder and vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato were privately critical of the offense's performance under Saunders the past two seasons."

Gee-If they were privately critical of the offense over the past two years, they must have been stark-raving mad about the offense for the two years prior to that!!

Well if that quote is true than I believe Snyder is a retard and Gibbs is a backstabber. Im sorry but Al Saunders never got a shot in Washington and thats because Gibbs wanted to steal the playcalling at different points in a game.

Hear, hear!!

[JasonCampbell]

Just heard on Riggins that Fassel is friends with Zorn, but so is Gregg Williams. So this hiring doesn't necessarily put Fassel in and Gregg out. If Gibbs is still backing Williams, Zorn could be as well.

[Lavar703]

Yes he made a mistake with Archuleta. So does every coach from time to time. Bottom line the Skins offense sucked for 4 years because of Gibbs but Gregg Williams took the talent he had and kept us in games. We will feel his loss if we dont retain him. Thats a promise.

As for the NE game yes you are right but at the same time Jacksonville did the same thing and almost beat NE. If you knock Gregg for giving up 45 points vs a NE offense that has scored the most in NFL history then something is wrong. We werent great buddy and we werent going to win the SB this year. So you can knock Gregg for on regular season game but he is a damn good coach and if he signs with Jacksonville as there defensive Coordinator and he wins there and there defense leads them to the SB remember what you said about him.

Why is he a damn good coach? he fielded one of the worst defenses in league history in 06' and except for the 04' season his defenses have been lack luster since. Gibbs offense got us into the playoffs in 05', i seem to remember the defense gave games away against Denver, Kansas City, San Diego, and Oakland. And Todd Collins put us in the playoffs in 07', the team was really reeling after the defense gave the game against buffalo away, and dont dare blame the loss on Gibbs because of consecutive time outs, had the defense kept the bills from driving nearly 70 yards without any timeouts then that never would have happened. Dont make excuses and say Gregg is a damn good coach. When was the last time we even came close to leading the league in turnovers or sacks, or even QB hurries for that matter? Hes a decent Coordinator who is easily replaceable.

[Lavar703]

Well letting go of Al Saunders is stupid. Thanks Dan for being a retard again like you were pre-Gibbs

Why is letting go of Al Saunders stupid, he never trusted Campbell and never would. Its unfortunate Gibbs caught the blame because Saunders would only run a vanilla offense with Campbell in the game. Do you really think Gibbs was calling the plays, if so why did things change so much when Collins took over. Sometimes i think you guys just jump to conclusions with out even looking at the whole situation.

[Battle Cat]

Why is letting go of Al Saunders stupid, he never trusted Campbell and never would. Its unfortunate Gibbs caught the blame because Saunders would only run a vanilla offense with Campbell in the game. Do you really think Gibbs was calling the plays, if so why did things change so much when Collins took over. Sometimes i think you guys just jump to conclusions with out even looking at the whole situation.
No team fully trust a qb that is in his first year of starting. The Steelers didn't allow Rothlisberger to throw over like 15 times a game his first couple of years and even when they won the Super Bowl. Peyton Manning was not just an all pro and let loose his first year starting. That is just the natural progression of a quarterback. You think the Browns are going to put Brady Quinn out next year with the whole playbook and throwing the ball all over the field or the Raiders with Russell no way. Eli Manning is just now starting to come into his own also Phillip Rivers for the Chargers it takes time to develop quarterbacks and changing offense playbooks 3 times in a qb's first 4 years does not help the process not to say it is not possible but it doesnt actually help.

[Lavar703]

Lackluster? your joking right? In 2004 his defense kept us in games with Brunell and Ramsey at QB. In 2005 his defense carried us and helped the Skins clinch a playoff berth and a win vs TB. In 2006 yes the defense slipped. So one bad year and Gregg is a terrible coach? In 2007 the Skins once again didnt have alot of turnovers but at the same time the defense held teams and gave the offense chances. Yards allowed is the most important stat period. Scoring defense is a overrated stat because of some of the holes the Skins defense was put in with our fumbling offense. Turnovers are nice to have been when you hold teams and stop them the turnovers dont matter. The Redskins also had injuries on the defense this year and continued playing well. His offense got us in the playoffs? No Santana Moss got us in the playoffs and if Gibbs offense was that good he wouldnt of handed the playcalling over after that season. The Skins offense wasnt that good that year dude. Santana Moss catching bombs and breaking screen passes was the real difference.


When did I bring up the Bills game thats just one of a handful of games Gibbs has screwed up in since returning to DC. Just ask the Giants week 3 or the Cowboys when we played them in Texas Stadium.

Oh and Gregg is a damn good coach and for you to knock him is sad. I guess you got to defend Gibbs to the death but the bottom line is he sucks and he probably got fired by Snyder. Whoc ares about turnovers when your defense is holding teams and forcing them to punt? Watch the games this year. The Skins lost alot of defensive players and kept rolling along. Gregg Williams is a damn good coach and when the defense sucks next year remember why.


Amazing, the Giants game and the Bills game are Gibbs fault, even though Gibbs offense gave the defense a lead in both games. I seem to remember us leading 17-3 at the half against the Giants and then all of a sudden the Giants scored like crazy on us. Or how about the second Philly game when the defense gave up 24 unanswered points in the 4th quater. Or how about the Cowboys game when we gave up four TDs to Terrell Owens. Seriously we can play this game all day, the defense was lack luster and Clinton Portis pretty much single handidly ran us into the playoffs in 05'. You want to bring up the Tampa bay game in 05', how about both games, how many times did Idell Sheppard get behind the defense in those games, if he was able to hold on to the ball we would have lost the playoff game just like the regular season game. Seriously Gregg Williams has fielded average defenses every season but one since hes been here.

[JasonCampbell]

Update by JLC:

UPDATE II: A source with knowledge of the situation said this evening that Saunders has been told to look for work elsewhere and that he does not expect to return to the team in any capacity.
Word of Zorn's hiring comes a day after Joe Gibbs called Redskins assistant coaches to tell them that the search for his replacement is likely to take several more weeks.
"They haven't told us anything [about Zorn]," one Redskins assistant said. "I heard about it on the radio. I have no idea what it means for us."

Snyder is acting like a jerk to our current assistants.

[Lavar703]

No that was Gibbs taking over in points of the game and also telling Saunders to make his offense simple. lol. Dude watch the games and read up on your team. Saunders was handcuffed because Gibbs didnt want him letting Campbell throw the ball. Thats why Collins beasted because Saunders actually got to pen his offense up. Too bad we are going to finish last next year now. Thanks Snyder and thanks senile Gibbs.

You really are a trip dude. Lets blame everything on Gibbs and leave Saunders alone. I would guarantee i know quite a bit more than you do about football, the fact that you believe the crap about Gibbs handcuffing Saunders is funny. Look back if you dont believe me, Al Saunders went on record saying he believed Ladell Betts to be one of the most talented RBs hes ever coached and when did are running game take off in 06', not suprisingly when Betts took over for the injured Portis. And guess what, he loves Todd Collins, guess what happened this year, our passing game took off under Todd Collins, but this must be a coincidence.

[rhummer37]

Update by JLC:



Snyder is acting like a jerk to our current assistants.

*former

Assuming G Williams is gone too, very few of the staff will be back, right?

[Fathead]

Zorn was the QB coach that turned Hasselbeck into a pro-bowler. I'm happy with this development. We'll never know how much of the offense is on Gibbs or Saunders, but I'm ok with a clean slate.

[rhummer37]

Without Gregg out defense will suck like it use too. Bank it.

No, this is exactly why I started posting earlier in this thread.

Why fear change?

Why "bank" on the fact that the new coach of defense cannot do at least what Williams did- WHEN NO ONE KNOWS WHO THAT COACH WILL EVEN BE?

Williams is not some sort of hall of fame lock; R. Ryan has a better history as a defensive coach, does he not?

[culpeper]

No that was Gibbs taking over in points of the game and also telling Saunders to make his offense simple. lol. Dude watch the games and read up on your team. Saunders was handcuffed because Gibbs didnt want him letting Campbell throw the ball. Thats why Collins beasted because Saunders actually got to pen his offense up. Too bad we are going to finish last next year now. Thanks Snyder and thanks senile Gibbs.

actually, you are making statements based on emotion and speculation moreso than fact.

i dont like this situation at all either, that we can agree on. im still cheering for GW OR a young unknown whos got something to prove.

but we dont know that gibbs EVER took over playcalling during games. not in 07 at least. what we do know is the calls came into his headset as well as jason's, and JG was very involved in the game planning before the games.

i agree that the game plan was simplified for JC. but every team in the league does that with a young QB.

i dont think snyder is going to pull this off. BUT the only thing thats making me feel any better is, the players still have to go out and play. and sometimes when your back is against a wall you play out of your mind.

remember, when GB hired mularkey (sp?) it was a very unpopular move. its kind of worked out hasnt it?

[Lavar703]

The Giants game is Gibbs fault when he wants Saunders to drain clock and try to hold onto a lead. A defense can only hold a team so many times after 3 and outs.

The Bills game was Gibbs fault because he dont know NFL rules b/c he is old and washed up. All he was was a figurehead on the sidelines.

The Eagles game if you forget Sean Taylor was injured in that game and the offense choked and were going 3 and out and turning the ball over. Blame Gibbs and his run run type of bitch playcalling.

The offense was good in 2005 with Portis yes. Why? Oh thats right we actually had a Portis that actually could run and didnt get hurt unytil late in the season. Hopefully the new staff will cut that bum. The defense was not lackluster and actually got us in the playoffs in the Philly game the last week of the season and won the Tampa Bay game with 2 big turnovers. One was a Lavar INT that led to a Portis TD and a Taylor fumble return for a TD. The Redskins defense was damn good in 2004 2005 and 2007 period. No offense but what was Brunells stats in the 2 playoff games in 2005? lol dude we had the least amount of offensive yards for a playoff team to win a game in NFL history. Credit Greggs defense. Average defenses my ass. Without Gregg out defense will suck like it use too. Bank it.


You obviously know nothing about the game of football, sorry but its true. Lets cut Portis, didnt he run for over 1,000 yards this season and had what 11 tds and over 300 yards recieving, definately a bum. Giving up a 21 point lead in the 4th quarter is not the offenses fault, saying that is just dumb. The defense allowing a team to move the ball nearly 70 yards with 20 seconds left and no time outs is not coach gibbs fault, yeah he called two timeouts but there kicker drilled that 51 yarder anyway, he would have done it again. It was not damn good in 05 and 07, your dreaming, damn good defenses dont give up 52 unanswered points no matter the opponent. You cant even make a good argument, your really grasping with your posts and its funny to read, Gibbs did this and Gibbs did that "wah wah". Well let me tell you something, Gibbs was the headcoach for the past 4 years and we made the playoffs twice, thats more playoff appearences in 4 seasons then we had in the previous 12 that he was away from the Redskins, but hey you know everything.

[esmith1790]

Why?

Why is it gone?

Cowboys did alright with their new staff last year

Sporano was the OC before Garrett came and he stayed on afterwards. Garrett just changed some verbage and installed some of his plays but kept alot of the plays current as is. So we had continuity.

[culpeper]

The Giants game is Gibbs fault when he wants Saunders to drain clock and try to hold onto a lead. A defense can only hold a team so many times after 3 and outs.

The Bills game was Gibbs fault because he dont know NFL rules b/c he is old and washed up. All he was was a figurehead on the sidelines.

The Eagles game if you forget Sean Taylor was injured in that game and the offense choked and were going 3 and out and turning the ball over. Blame Gibbs and his run run type of bitch playcalling.

The offense was good in 2005 with Portis yes. Why? Oh thats right we actually had a Portis that actually could run and didnt get hurt unytil late in the season. Hopefully the new staff will cut that bum. The defense was not lackluster and actually got us in the playoffs in the Philly game the last week of the season and won the Tampa Bay game with 2 big turnovers. One was a Lavar INT that led to a Portis TD and a Taylor fumble return for a TD. The Redskins defense was damn good in 2004 2005 and 2007 period. No offense but what was Brunells stats in the 2 playoff games in 2005? lol dude we had the least amount of offensive yards for a playoff team to win a game in NFL history. Credit Greggs defense. Average defenses my ass. Without Gregg out defense will suck like it use too. Bank it.

how is the giants game gibbs fault? 1st and goal from the 2 and you cant get in? thats players.

did you know the exact rule of the double TO penalty? i knew we couldnt do it, but i didnt know it was a 15yrd penalty. and my friends consider me a nfl rules junkie.

the eagles game was on the players too! you have 6 or so plays inside the 10 yard line and dont get in. i dont care if you have vince lombardi coaching, if your guys cant put it in from the 10, its the players heart that is in question.

cut portis? what are you on dude? he was 3rd in the league this year in total yardage from scrimmage. hes a bum? you have no clue what youre talking about.

and the language youre using...ill let the mods handle that one man. this isnt the same trashy blog you find while searching google. check that.

[Lavar703]

Gibbs did handcuff Saunders. Your just a Gibbs backer to the death. No offense Gibbs was a damn good head coach but when he put his nose where it didnt belong he was terrible and a complete bust. He can lead and coach players up and he knows talent. Gibbs brought in alot of talent to DC since 2004. On the same token though Gibbs playcalling sucked and Al Saunders is a damn good coach. Stop hiding behind a name and face facts. Al Saunders and Gregg Williams are good coaches and they will be missed.

In both of those cases yes Saunders beasted and because both times Saudners want handcuffed by a senile man on a power trip. Gibbs likes to run the ball and when Betts took over the Skins got on a roll. So Saunders was right about Betts. Proves my point. As for Collins Gibbs trusted Saunders because he knew Collins and didnt hold Collins back. Gibbs handcuffed Saunders/Campbell because Gibbs prefers Vet QBs. That is his downfall in his 2nd stint. He never had faith in Campbell and Saunders did. Sorry buddy but Gibbs is a dumb coach and Saunders with no Gibbs would of had us in thr running for the NFC East. Too bad I blame retarded Smyder and semile Gibbs.

This is like talking to a brick wall, sheesh. Gibbs is the one who made the switch to Campbell, Saunders wanted to switch to Collins. Its funny that anytime are offense got on a roll you say "Saunders got the handcuffs off", and calling Gibbs a dumb coach is ridiculous, not to mention calling someone senile and retarded yet spelling two things wrong in the same sentence is classic LOL. This is a public forum and you can post whatever rubbish you want, but you should stop, because every time you do post it makes you look ridiculous, your conspiracy theories are amazing.

[Lavar703]

nah your a homer but thats ok ill let you pretend you know more about football. :smash:

Portis ran great after the death of Sean Taylor and thats why his numbers are good. No offense but his only good game before Sean Taylor passed away was vs the Jets. Portis is also injury prone he leaves for a part of almost every game. I think hes overrated and check his numbers per game. His only great year was 2005. Portis is a overrated RB.

The defense did enough to win vs Buffalo and Gibbs choked. The team had no Sean Taylor and were adjusting without him. As for the Pats game the defense didnt give up 52 wise guy they gave up 45. Colvin ran a fumble back. So lemme just stop right there because you dont have any clue what your talking about so im going to stop wasting my time. Bottom line Gregg Williams had top 10 defense in 3 out of his 4 years here thats damn good no matter what you think.


You dont think the loss of Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen had anything to do with Portis' numbers being down do you? You really must smoke the greatest Marijuana known to man if you believe the crap you type.

[Lavar703]

nah your a homer but thats ok ill let you pretend you know more about football. :smash:

Portis ran great after the death of Sean Taylor and thats why his numbers are good. No offense but his only good game before Sean Taylor passed away was vs the Jets. Portis is also injury prone he leaves for a part of almost every game. I think hes overrated and check his numbers per game. His only great year was 2005. Portis is a overrated RB.

The defense did enough to win vs Buffalo and Gibbs choked. The team had no Sean Taylor and were adjusting without him. As for the Pats game the defense didnt give up 52 wise guy they gave up 45. Colvin ran a fumble back. So lemme just stop right there because you dont have any clue what your talking about so im going to stop wasting my time. Bottom line Gregg Williams had top 10 defense in 3 out of his 4 years here thats damn good no matter what you think.

Oh im sorry, they gave up 45 unanswered not 52, that definately makes it that much better, LOL, go away.

[guinness4health]

Snyder is acting like a jerk to our current assistants.

why is it acting like a jerk?.....

all of these guys are under contract for another year (with the exception of two the linebacker coach and the running back, both of which shouldn't have any trouble getting a new jobs considering they are both well respected) which means that if they ultimately get fired they are going to there salary next year....

certainly this is not what everyone is going to be happy that the search is taking so long, but this is just as much gibbs fault by quiting without any fore warning

[Lavar703]

Wheres AKH when you need him?

[CNYSkinFan]

Wheres AKH when you need him?
maker's mark....like the rest of us

[PennSkinsFan]

Hope you all know this reaffirms Fassel. If you think Josh McDaniels or Spaguolo are going to come here with staff already in place, i doubt it. I love the idea of Zorn, but the fact he was hired befoire a head coach tells my Snyder is an idiot.

[Lavar703]

Yeah vs the Pats. Oh thats right I forgot. The redskins are great the redskins are unstoppbale. They should of beat a team no one esle beat. Dude please **** you sound like you are the biggest homer in the history of message boards. Just because the Skins make a terrible move doesnt mean you got to back it just because your a redskin fan. Im sorry but Snyder just because hes the Skins owner doesnt get a free pass and just because Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls before Christ died doesnt make him a great coach now.

You have no argument of any substance, just stop, its getting ridiculous.

[culpeper]

Yes check his numbers per game I hope to god we cut him and let Betts run.

What language. Dont act like a child dude. Grow some balls were men not little kids. If you cant handle something I said about a coach or a owner then maybe you need to stop reading?

lol. why do i have to check his numbers again? i just gave them to you... are you ok?

you are baseing your betts is better theory on his 06 stats right? ok, why did we go 2-5 in that stretch when he had such great numbers? oh AND the line was healthy then! seriously, your opinions are a joke. betts fumbles MORE than portis. he also has no impact on a game other than receiving. and im not even factoring how well portis blocks...

i am not a child. and i agree we can talk about this like men. but men dont have to curse BECAUSE young kids DO get on this board and read. men ONLY curse when they are emotional, and conversating while emotional is not a good idea. actually, its even bad that you are forming sentences improperly and misspelling words...some of those same kids may be scared for life :)

[Lavar703]

No offense but for all the money we are paying him he should be putting up 1500 a year and his average should be 4.5 a carry. Im tired of him tanking in big games.

Do you think its a coincidence are sacks given up are down when Portis is in the game? Hes one of, if not the best blocking RB in the game. Hes had one season in his career under 1,000 yards and he actually ran wild against Tampa Bay in that regular season game in 05' that Williams defense gave away. Honestly, do you ever make a good argument?

[MadDog97]

I would not assume that Zorn guarantees Fassell. GW likes Zorn too and this only guarantees Saunders exit. The fact that Snyder is dragging this out to talk to a Super Bowl assistant shows that he could care less about his employees. My biggest fear now is that neither Fassell or Williams wants anything to do with this team.

[VegasSkinsFan]

Do you think its a coincidence are sacks given up are down when Portis is in the game? Hes one of, if not the best blocking RB in the game. Hes had one season in his career under 1,000 yards and he actually ran wild against Tampa Bay in that regular season game in 05' that Williams defense gave away. Honestly, do you ever make a good argument?

Its too bad a3000 isnt gm somewhere, we might be able to get a few picks for betts. GO SKINS !!!!

[culpeper]

No offense but for all the money we are paying him he should be putting up 1500 a year and his average should be 4.5 a carry. Im tired of him tanking in big games.

this is the problem with your arguement about portis. you are basing his production on dan snyders ability to overpay players. his "stats" are irrelevant when you factor in his blocking ability, leadership, and heart.

if betts was making the same money, based on your views, you would want him cut too....

[The Skinsinator]

I also like this move although I do feel a bit bad for Saunders but he shouldn't have any problem finding a job elsewhere. I like the fact that he has a strong track record of developing qbs. Got onto the Seahawks board after this was announced and they weren't happy to see him go.

[Lavar703]

Check Portis numbers since he has been in Washington and check his ypc. Then compare them to his days in Denver. Bottom line hes overrated. Im sorry im not a homer that loves Gibbs, Portis etc. I want a winner and Gregg Williams and Al Saunders put a good product on the field. Check there track records.

When did they put a good product on the field?

[PennSkinsFan]

Saunders is history

A source with knowledge of the situation said this evening that Saunders has been told to look for work elsewhere and that he does not expect to return to the team in any capacity.

[smoak]

Ive heard some weird statements but this takes the cake. If the Skins had Gregg and Al they would have the same two playcallers and systems as last year. Thats continuity. All Gibbs did was mess up in critical situations and handcuff Al Saunders. I think Gregg and Al would of been a upgrade from Gibbs/Gregg/Al.

Really? What proof do you have that Gibbs handcuffed Al? Please enlighten us.

[culpeper]

Yes I do. Gregg Williams/Al Saunders our damn good coaches and 90% of Redskin fans want them. Theres a reason. Its the right choice.

i agree that they are good coaches. but the only reason i dont want them to go is i want the team to maintain and build on what weve started. i would imagine that 75% of those 90% feel THAT way.

i dont like what snyder is doing either, but chill out man. you just joined HR and your too emotional right now. sit on it for a day and if you still feel the same way, come on back.

[Lavar703]

Check Portis numbers since he has been in Washington and check his ypc. Then compare them to his days in Denver. Bottom line hes overrated. Im sorry im not a homer that loves Gibbs, Portis etc. I want a winner and Gregg Williams and Al Saunders put a good product on the field. Check there track records.

You do know he played in Denver, if you expected that same kind of production, then your crazy. We got exactly what I expected, an elite RB who does more than just run the ball. Its not about being a homer, its about knowing basic football, and you obviously do not. If im a homer because i respect Joe Gibbs and Clinton Portis than so be it, but Clinton Portis owns the Redskins single season rushing record and Joe Gibbs is the only reason we have three superbowl trophies to boast. Sorry if i appreciate what they have done for this franchise.

[Lavar703]

Really? What proof do you have that Gibbs handcuffed Al? Please enlighten us.

He doesnt have to, he just knows OK, gosh.

[culpeper]

Im not basing it on money. Money is a factor on top of the real reason. Portis chokes in big games and isnt that good.

Portis ypc since 2004

2004 3.8
2005 4.3
2006 4.1
2007 3.9

Thats terrible. Through one period of time this season he was averaging 1.9 ypc. Portis isnt that good.

ok so...since LT didnt have over 1500 yards this year, SD should start turner and cut LT? because turner has a better YPC too.

ill say this slowly... we-lost-the-whole-right-side-of-our-line. and portis still finished the season 3RD in total yards from scrimmage and i believe in the top 5 in rushing! ill check that last one, but i know he was close to 5th. how is he a bum?

i want to see him rip it for 200 yards every sunday too, but sometimes it doesnt work out. he is the heartbeat of this team and priceless IMO. and he comes up HUGE in big games. i promise i can name two good games for every "choke" game that you make up.

[Lavar703]

Chill ? Im fine. Im debating on a message board. You dont like my posts dont read them.

Your not debating, your posting ridiculous things and then just backing them with "because i said so" basically. I dont like your posts, but i feel an obligation to make you look dumb every time you post your garbage.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Well I hope our soon to be HC knows who his new OC is. :smash: Here is to more seasons of learning a new offense. I just wish we would have let Saunders have the offense to himself for a full season. He was an elite coordinator everywhere but in DC. But I guess he wouldn't be the only person to have their leanest years occur while working for this ownership.

[JasonCampbell]

No RB in this league would approach 4.5 ypc behind a right side of Fabini/Heyer/Wade.

[techskinsfan]

Im not basing it on money. Money is a factor on top of the real reason. Portis chokes in big games and isnt that good.

Portis ypc since 2004

2004 3.8
2005 4.3
2006 4.1
2007 3.9

Thats terrible. Through one period of time this season he was averaging 1.9 ypc. Portis isnt that good.
we dont have the same scheme as denver and we played this season with 2 guys on the oline from last year...come on now i am a portis homer but he is not overrated by any means...his success and the success of the offense correlate and if you think this isnt true you sir are the one that is blind

[Lavar703]

I would watch the language if you plan to keep debating on here. Otherwise your going to find yourself debating on extremeskins with the quickness.

[smoak]

Watch the games. Theres your proof. Dont be blind.

Oh I watch the games. How is that proof that Gibbs handcuffs Saunders. Please answer the question.

[culpeper]

checked the stats...CP was 6th in the league in rushing yards. my bad, youre right, cut him :rolleyes:

ps, he lead the league in attempts too. that doesnt sound like a guy who cant stay healthy and folds at the end of the season. sounds like he is an all pro RB who pounded the rock with a makeshift o-line

[mexskins]

Wow, I thought the coach would have some input on hiring assistant coaches. Somehow I feel the deal with Fassel is imminent. Oh well, without a new GM it wont make a difference IMO.

Hail from Mexico !!!

[smoak]

ALL

PLEASE IGNORE ANDRE 3000

He is in the process of being banned and I am deleting all his posts.

[Lavar703]

Please mods before you ban this guy, allow us to keep making him look stupid, it really is fun

[csquared]

lol ypc is what matters as a RB. I did expect what he did in Denver thats why we gave up Champ Bailey and a 2nd rd pick. No offense but Portis isnt elite. Elite RBs make the pro bowl. I respect Gibbs as a leader and as a GM but as a playcaller he sucked. Oh and I do know basic football the difference is you dont agree with my opinion like I dont agree with you thinking that everything the Redskins do is gold. Bottom line Snyder hasnt done one god damn thing since he has been owner except SCREW up playoff teams.

well i do suggest you clean this post up REAL fast before your banned

[mexskins]

Andre3000

Youre history !!!!!

[Lavar703]

ALL

PLEASE IGNORE ANDRE 3000

He is in the process of being banned and I am deleting all his posts.

I guess theres always extremeskins

[culpeper]

ALL

PLEASE IGNORE ANDRE 3000

He is in the process of being banned and I am deleting all his posts.

THANK YOU SIR! :banhim:

sorry ive just always wanted to use that smiley!

[VegasSkinsFan]

Thanks for banning that knucklehead. I was getting tired of his grade school banter. In 30 posts he got to bash gibbs,portis and use the n-word. Might be a record. GO SKINS !!!!!!!

[HAWGZHEAD]

That was a sad little man.

[PennSkinsFan]

THANK YOU SIR! :banhim:

sorry ive just always wanted to use that smiley!

He has been banned

[The Skinsinator]

With this hire, I'm eager to know how strongly we pursue Spagnuolo from NY after the super bowl. Young, fiery, and hungry. Wouldn't be a bad choice at all imo. He's only been there a year though as dc and I wonder how he would view our head coaching job.

[NCskinsfanatic]

andre 3000 was more frustrating than this coaching search, reading his posts were torture...I need a drink lol.

[PennSkinsFan]

With this hire, I'm eager to know how strongly we pursue Spagnuolo from NY after the super bowl. Young, fiery, and hungry. Wouldn't be a bad choice at all imo. He's only been there a year though as dc and I wonder how he would view our head coaching job.

Your assuming Spagnolo or McDaniels would even be interested now considering they don't get to select their own coaches.

[silverspring]

I am confused. The "talk" around the zorn hire seems to be that snyder/vin/gibbs? aren't really happy with saunders and want someone that can develop campbell....ok zorn seems to have the experience and talent....but why develop a strong armed qb with a WCO guy?

[The Skinsinator]

Your assuming Spagnolo or McDaniels would even be interested now considering they don't get to select their own coaches.That's why I said I wonder how he'd view our job. No way McDaniels leaves. If we landed Spagnolo we might just get some talented new defensive linemen.

[smoak]

He has been banned

Thanks! My warning was more than friendly, and his response was very telling.

[greatest2]

I am confused. The "talk" around the zorn hire seems to be that snyder/vin/gibbs? aren't really happy with saunders and want someone that can develop campbell....ok zorn seems to have the experience and talent....but why develop a strong armed qb with a WCO guy?

i agree with your general concept. im not sure campbell fits this kind of offense. West coast, based on precision, and quick release. While i think campbell has bette accuracy then he has shown (drop passes, as well as completing like 70 percent in college), he does have a slower release. Im not sure he fits this system if thats what zorn runs. its almost like vick with atlanta. west coast for that guy was absolutly crazy, and while i do think campbell fits the WCO better then vick, im not sure he is right for it. but only time will tell, im sure zorn, being a qb friendly coach, will influence strong run game and taylor this to campbells strengths, or at least i hope

[NCskinsfanatic]

I'm ok with the Zorn hire, its been apparhent to me for weeks continuity wasnt going to happen. What concerns me is why he was hired before a HC, the fact that many refer to him as a WC guy(not sure we have a WC roster), vinny as executive VP and the way the rounding out of the staff continues to drag on.

[sinskin]

To early to tell whether I like the Zorn deal or not.... if we score more then 17 points a game average then I'll be elated.

I will take GW as head coach and keep the top 10 defense. That with 24 points average will win games.

To much to ask is it?

[VegasSkinsFan]

Yes, this is a very confusing situation. GO SKINS !!!!!

[PA Skins Girl]

Wikipedia is amazing. Zorn's bio has already been updated to indicate the hiring by the Skins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zorn

[VegasSkinsFan]

I was just thinking, i wonder if zorn will push for dj hackett to come here. With all the HC confusion, it is hard to have fun trying to guess who we mihgt sign/draft....we dont even know what systems we will be using. Will it be WCO, will we run 4-3 or 3-4.....think i will go make that rum and coke rigt about now. GO SKINS !!!!!

[shally]

With this hire, I'm eager to know how strongly we pursue Spagnuolo from NY after the super bowl. Young, fiery, and hungry. Wouldn't be a bad choice at all imo. He's only been there a year though as dc and I wonder how he would view our head coaching job.

are you kidding ? has has years of nfc expereince with philly, started out witht he redskins and coached the giants as DC

if he has a solid interview after the SB, expect him to be named. if he flubs it, we could see rex ryan, schwartz or meeks as hc-- but i doubt we see an offensive minded HC now

[The Skinsinator]

are you kidding ?Kidding about what? Know he did good under Johnson at Philly also but he has only been def coordinator at NY for 1 year. I would like the hire also. I wanna know how he would look at our job versus maybe waiting for Couglin to step down.

[44FAN]

I just don't get how you can hire an offensive coordinator before hiring a head coach? Basically, aren't you telling the head coach you hire that he's not really the head coach, you pick his staff, you call the shots. Wouldn't you trust Cowher to pick his own staff?

He's undermining whomever he hires. Why wouldn't you give the head coach control over his staff and his philosophy you agreed to before you hired him. Everything that's happened since Gibbs left is puzzling to me. I can't make sense of any of it. I think our team is being run by a couple of morons.

[shally]

Kidding about what? Know he did good under Johnson at Philly also but he has only been def coordinator at NY for 1 year. I would like the hire also. I wanna know how he would look at our job versus maybe waiting for Couglin to step down.

who says anything about coughlin stepping down antime soon ?

i was refering to spaguolo not wanting the position of HC with the skins..
if offerred, i expect he will jump at it

[The Skinsinator]

who says anything about coughlin stepping down antime soon ?

i was refering to spaguolo not wanting the position of HC with the skins..
if offerred, i expect he will jump at itI hope you're right. How are you so confident he'd jump at our head coaching job?

[shally]

I just don't get how you can hire an offensive coordinator before hiring a head coach? Basically, aren't you telling the head coach you hire that he's not really the head coach, you pick his staff, you call the shots. Wouldn't you trust Cowher to pick his own staff?

He's undermining whomever he hires. Why wouldn't you give the head coach control over his staff and his philosophy you agreed to before you hired him. Everything that's happened since Gibbs left is puzzling to me. I can't make sense of any of it. I think our team is being run by a couple of morons.

perhaps.. but if we hire someone like spagnuolo, it would put a huge burden on him to come up with an experienced hand to guide the offensive side of the ball. that is what happened to some extent to GW at buffalo. all his assistants were young and by the time he began changing to a more experienced group, it was too late

it also establishes the lines of power. vinnie is frmly in control. in time the HC may replace the OC, but it more likely means he does not have full control over his staff

it adds to the independence of whoever is hired as OC (zorn) and gives more prestige to his job

worked pretty well for dallas didnt it ?

it points strongly in the direction of the HC being young.. against even someone like fassel being named HC.. going young is the way to go

[shally]

I hope you're right. How are you so confident he'd jump at our head coaching job?

unless he has an agreement in place to succeed coughlin or gets one in the next 2 weeks, he will be offered the best job in the nfl- head coach of the redskins. win, and you have senators and supreme curt judges asking for you

he will be paid royally.. my guess is he would jump at it

[Syllable]

What Loyalties does Spags have for NY?

[The Skinsinator]

unless he has an agreement in place to succeed coughlin or gets once in the next 2 weeks, he will be offerred the best job in the nfl- head coach of the redskins. win, and you have senators and supreme curt judges asking for you

he will be paid royally.. my guess is he would jump at itOf course he'd be paid royally. That's why most of our personnel comes here anyway. Coughlin isn't exactly a young man and considering he just took his defense to the super bowl. I'm not sure that is enough to leave to go to work for Dan Snyder however I hope you're correct.

[shally]

What Loyalties does Spags have for NY?


as of now ? i would imagine plenty strong.. but unless he is guaranteed to be coughlins successor in so many years, why would he turn down such as golden one as the skin's HC if offered ?

[The Skinsinator]

as of now ? i would imagine plenty strong.. but unless he is guaranteed to be coughlins successor in so many years, why would he turn down such as golden one as the skin's HC if offered ?Because he doesn't want to deal with Dan Snyder and his impatience and not a whole helluva lot of job security. Gibbs is gone. Because he just went to the super bowl. I'm just not as sure as you are he'd take our job but we'll see.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

i thought al got a raw deal. he was handcuffed, and then hit with major injuries as well as a pretty much rookie qb. i thought we had a chance to be very good offensively under him next year if we could just avoid the huge injuries we got this year.

but you are right, no matter the excuses of injuries/handcuff/rookie qb/year to learn system, he simply just didn't deliver. i thought he should have next year, but hopefully zorn is the jason g of next year

I have to agree, I have some sympathy for Saunders. Would have liked to see him have one more year and a true possession receiver at his disposal. All the best to him.

[Red Bear]

i think spagnuolo would be a bad idea as head coach, if we run his defense than the eagles and giants know our defense, the giants would probably get a new defense and we'd probably know the eagles defense.

i think the hiring of zorn almost certainly means we will be hiring a defensive head coach though(unless its fassel). JLCs blog said williams has respect for zorn too, so if true its possible they could work together, in that sense it could be a good sign for williams. in other ways it could be a bad sign. i also heard weak rumors that schwartz may be getting a second interview but im not sold on that at all. i wonder if the team will retain bugel if he wants to stay.

[thetrueyoung1]

i just posted this in the head coach poll one, but more people are here so i'll post it here also...
ESPN radio just said the Chris Mortenson just reported from sources close to Daniel Snyder that Greg Williams is out of consideration for the head coaching job after talking negatively about Gibbs during the interview process

[Canuck]

I personally like this move. I am not a fan of Al Saunders. Any offense that takes more than one year to learn and execute isn't meant for today's NFL. In today's NFL there is just too much roster turnover year-in and year-out.

Zorn I suspect will run a WCO-based offense. With so many other teams running WCO-based offenses this should make it easier for FA signings to come in and contribute from day one. If I'm Sellers, Cooley or Thrash right now I'm thrilled.

The key questions now are who is going to fill out the remainder of the offensive staff:
QB Coach
RB Coach
WR Coach
TE Coach
OL Coach
Who fills these spots will go a long way in determining our short term and long term success under the Zorn offensive system.

[CNYSkinFan]

i just posted this in the head coach poll one, but more people are here so i'll post it here also...
ESPN radio just said the Chris Mortenson just reported from sources close to Daniel Snyder that Greg Williams is out of consideration for the head coaching job after talking negatively about Gibbs during the interview process
if true this cements for me my dislike of Williams and all things with 3 gs in their names

[thetrueyoung1]

no link yet by espn radio keeps reporting it.... so i guess it has some creadability

[The Skinsinator]

if true this cements for me my dislike of Williams and all things with 3 gs in their namesMine also. I read on es that Snyder and Williams got into a yelling match during one of the four interviews. Snyder was pissed about Williams not telling Gibbs about putting 10 men on the field in the opening of the Buffalo game. Felt it was disrespectful. Williams really does sound like an ass if that espn report is accurate.

[Bengal224ord]

I actually think that Saunders was the least responsible person for the not overwhelming success of the offense. I think the man most responsible for that is Gibbs.

The problem was we lacked the explosiveness that we saw in the KC offense. It seemed that we never showed too much versatility. We have tons of talent, and under achieved. We have way too much talent to let it all slip away. The playbook is way to big, and with JC learning his 10 millionth playbook he should have provided it in parts. We all know JC has talent.

In fact it seemed like the receivers worked harder under Collins. I know we had a lot of injuries, but we all must agree we seemed to have no imagination when it came to play calling. In addtion it seemed clear that once Collins was in we our play calling got better. Why didn't we give JC the same play calling as we did for Collins???

JC worked hard all off season as we all know, but we still chose to take it slow. I believe Gibbs would get convservative late in the game, however the beginings I just don't agree. The OC should have said/felt this is the time to go for the throat, time is limited and the OC needs to make his move (Mike Marks would have)...that never happened with Al. Don't get me wrong, I would have liked to see us stay put, however this is JC team period. I believe that if we kept AL we would have had some type of JC vs. Collins war. Crazy, we spent way too much for JC and we all see the kid has talent without a doubt. He is willing to put in the time to get better in the off season...we need players like that. We will have a sucessfull year next year...Superbowl. I think we can do it, if we don't make too many personnell changes.

Bengal224ord

[coffdogg]

Barring some surprise, this probably means Spag or Rex Ryan will the be next coach.Well not that I am a stat hound but I just had to look for myself.So here it is Ravens 6th in yards allowed Skins 8th,Skins 33 sacks Ravens 32,Skins 13 INT 2 TD's Ravens 17 and 1,Skins 18 FF and 10 FR Ravens 11 and 6, now points go to Ravens 334 to 275.So as far as I am concerned with the injuries we played thru we may as well have GW as the man and call it a day,if not then we start all over again.Sorry for all the stats but if any of you are like me you want to see some reason for a change.And I really Don't

[Red Bear]

Well not that I am a stat hound but I just had to look for myself.So here it is Ravens 6th in yards allowed Skins 8th,Skins 33 sacks Ravens 32,Skins 13 INT 2 TD's Ravens 17 and 1,Skins 18 FF and 10 FR Ravens 11 and 6, now points go to Ravens 334 to 275.So as far as I am concerned with the injuries we played thru we may as well have GW as the man and call it a day,if not then we start all over again.Sorry for all the stats but if any of you are like me you want to see some reason for a change.And I really Don't

the ravens offense was plain HORRIBLE. they gave no help to their defense

[NCskinsfanatic]

if true this cements for me my dislike of Williams and all things with 3 gs in their names

yeah this was my one concern with Gdub also, his arrogance and inability to adjust. If he had issues with gibbs, vinny and Al then it wasnt going to work anyway.

[Bengal224ord]

I personally like this move. I am not a fan of Al Saunders. Any offense that takes more than one year to learn and execute isn't meant for today's NFL. In today's NFL there is just too much roster turnover year-in and year-out.

Zorn I suspect will run a WCO-based offense. With so many other teams running WCO-based offenses this should make it easier for FA signings to come in and contribute from day one. If I'm Sellers, Cooley or Thrash right now I'm thrilled.

The key questions now are who is going to fill out the remainder of the offensive staff:
QB Coach
RB Coach
WR Coach
TE Coach
OL Coach
Who fills these spots will go a long way in determining our short term and long term success under the Zorn offensive system.

You are on the money, in today NFL we have just too much turnover from year to year, which means a lot of things need to be simple. To start the playbook was way too big......

Bengal224ord

[The Skinsinator]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3215121

Something sure sounds fishy here. This franchise is a circus.

[joethefan]

once again a move previously made by the cowboys, they hired Garrett first before wade....

[akhhorus]

Well not that I am a stat hound but I just had to look for myself.So here it is Ravens 6th in yards allowed Skins 8th,Skins 33 sacks Ravens 32,Skins 13 INT 2 TD's Ravens 17 and 1,Skins 18 FF and 10 FR Ravens 11 and 6, now points go to Ravens 334 to 275.So as far as I am concerned with the injuries we played thru we may as well have GW as the man and call it a day,if not then we start all over again.Sorry for all the stats but if any of you are like me you want to see some reason for a change.And I really Don't

The stats don't matter frankly. Whether you think Williams is a good D-coordinator or not is academic. What matter are his traits to become a good head coach. Ryan on the other hand has done well maximizing the talent he has, making adjustments and scheming for his opponents---all things that Williams has struggled with for at least 2 seasons. Williams has shown stubborness, inflexibility and arrogance. Not things you want in a head coach.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Zorn was the QB coach that turned Hasselbeck into a pro-bowler. I'm happy with this development. We'll never know how much of the offense is on Gibbs or Saunders, but I'm ok with a clean slate.

I guess I am too really although part of me really wanted to keep Al. I thought his offense was progressing here and I felt Jason probably learned by watching at the end of the season.

But now we have to start all over, we have a brand new playbook to learn. At least this one shouldn't be so complex though so maybe it'll work out.

[ChapelHillMatt]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3215121

Something sure sounds fishy here. This franchise is a circus.

I don't like the tone of that article at all, Williams said all the right things there but he's going to be made to be the bad guy?

Don't like this at all.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

One thing is for sure with Zorn, he must have given a heck of an interview.

[esmith1790]

once again a move previously made by the cowboys, they hired Garrett first before wade....


Garrett was under contract and give 48 hour window to interview. Jerry Jones had to make a quick decision on him. Jerry Jones was able to get him on as OC instead of HC. So he was hired before Wade.



"Jones must decide by Thursday whether to hire Garrett as offensive coordinator because the Miami Dolphins set a deadline for the Cowboys to hire their quarterbacks coach when granting the Cowboys permission to interview Garrett.

The Cowboys could appoint Garrett offensive coordinator to secure his services while eliminating the Dolphins from the equation. Then Jones could deliberate whether to appoint him as the head coach later after interviews with other head coach candidates, primarily San Diego Chargers defensive coordinator Wade Phillips or San Francisco 49ers offensive coordinator Norv Turner."


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2741032

[shally]

One thing is for sure with Zorn, he must have given a heck of an interview.

i think he comes across like gibbs in his sincerity and his earnestness. not that it is the only thing that matters, but he is a deeply religious family man

[akhhorus]

Wikipedia is amazing. Zorn's bio has already been updated to indicate the hiring by the Skins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Zorn

Hey, you wouldn't believe the fun I've had with Wiki that they delete far too quickly---especially my entry about Morton Anderson lmao.

[LATrueRedskin]

Hey, you wouldn't believe the fun I've had with Wiki that they delete far too quickly---especially my entry about Morton Anderson lmao.

Oh my God...

Concerning Zorn: I like the prospect of having him call the offensive plays, but I don't understand the philosophy of hiring a head coach's staff before hiring the head coach. I'm scared to death that it's going to be Fassel, but then why not just hire him before? But, this is goofball Snyder we're talking about. Nothing makes sense around here.

[Canuck]

I wonder if Zorn gave Snyder a deadline. That would explain him being hired before a HC is in place.

[akhhorus]

Oh my God...

They deleted that one quickly. I thought it was legit, but I guess I was too "real" for Wiki rotflmao.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I wonder if Zorn gave Snyder a deadline. That would explain him being hired before a HC is in place.

Intersting question. JLC mentioned after the interview that Zorn was going to meet with Seattle officials who had every intention of keeping him. Maybe Zorn didn't like what he was hearing from Seattle.

[shally]

Oh my God...

Concerning Zorn: I like the prospect of having him call the offensive plays, but I don't understand the philosophy of hiring a head coach's staff before hiring the head coach. I'm scared to death that it's going to be Fassel, but then why not just hire him before? But, this is goofball Snyder we're talking about. Nothing makes sense around here.


devil's advocate for a second..

what do spagnuolo, meeks, ryan or schwartz know about offense ? we need an experienced hand for the offense

[LATrueRedskin]

devil's advocate for a second..

what do spagnuolo, meeks, ryan or schwartz know about offense ? we need an experienced hand for the offense

Totally agree, and that's what I'm holding onto to keep sanity in this situation. Zorn was highly regarded by Fassel, but all those other coaches are defensive guys. So, as always, who knows. As long as it's not Fassel, I'm fine.

[LATrueRedskin]

They deleted that one quickly. I thought it was legit, but I guess I was too "real" for Wiki rotflmao.

I bet they designate a guy to delete that story on an hourly basis.

[shally]

Intersting question. JLC mentioned after the interview that Zorn was going to meet with Seattle officials who had every intention of keeping him. Maybe Zorn didn't like what he was hearing from Seattle.

lots of change going on in seattle. not just zorn..

ray rhodes is going home to texas as a def assistant.
mora jr clearly has the inside track after next year, but this is a season of uncertainty for the seattle coaches. why not opt for a 3 year contract with raise, plus a chance to have autonomy because the HC is likely to come from the def side of the ball.

the skins have the template of GW's independence to offer zorn. he would never have that at in seattle.

[shally]

Totally agree, and that's what I'm holding onto to keep sanity in this situation. Zorn was highly regarded by Fassel, but all those other coaches are defensive guys. So, as always, who knows. As long as it's not Fassel, I'm fine.

as akh said, if it was to be fassel, i think it would have happened by now.

no doubt he could re emerge if all the interviews next weeks go badly, but i would bet on 1 of the candidates wowing snyder

[LATrueRedskin]

as akh said, if it was to be fassel, i think it would have happened by now.

no doubt he could re emerge if all the interviews next weeks go badly, but i would bet on 1 of the candidates wowing snyder

Ah, now see, that's what common sense would tell you. That's what basic thinking skills would reveal. This is Snyder we're talking about. :) I do agree with you, though.

[akhhorus]

I bet they designate a guy to delete that story on an hourly basis.

Ive heard that story from multiple independent sources. Its as good as fact for me, and really what's so embarrassing about it? He should be bragging lmao.

[LATrueRedskin]

Ive heard that story from multiple independent sources. Its as good as fact for me, and really what's so embarrassing about it? He should be bragging lmao.

Oh, I'm sure it's true. Morton Anderson is an odd fellow, and he just looks like he can do that lol.

[skinfanjon]

Ive heard that story from multiple independent sources. Its as good as fact for me, and really what's so embarrassing about it? He should be bragging lmao.

Whats the story?

[skinsfan36]

i like the hire and am exited to see his offense this hiring speaks good for meeks,spags,schwartz for hc

[bigcmr]

Lets face it its probably better that Saunders is gone. He was going to start a QB controversy. Witch we don't need. Keep in mind he wasnt here when JC was drafted. So I don't think his complicated 700 page offence was ever made for a young QB.

Im interested to see Zorns offence.

[LATrueRedskin]

Here's a question: How many pages is his playbook? :)

[JsMaViSd]

i love the pickup

Campbell i believe should be excited bout this

[wewantdallas]

I like Zorn a lot. I've always liked him, even when he was the QB for the 'Hawks. He was great. In fact, I just like the name "Zorn" and think he should drop the first name and go by "Zorn" only.

That said, I find it incredibly bizarre that an OC is hired before a HC. Has this happened before? Maybe Jason Garret, but I can't remember. Seems like a rare thing to have happen, though.

[akhhorus]

From ProFootballWeekly's whispers today:

The fact that the Redskins have hired Jim Zorn as their offensive coordinator is a bit unorthodox, considering there is no head coach in place. However, a team source has told PFW that the Redskins may already have made contact with a candidate, either directly or through an agent, and confirmed that Zorn’s hiring wouldn’t change that candidate’s interest in coaching the Redskins. The leading candidates appear to be former Giants head coach Jim Fassel and current Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, who won’t be available for an interview until after the Super Bowl.

Translation: we know who we're hiring, we're just waiting until after the super bowl.

[VegasSkinsFan]

At this moment, i like the Zorn signing. He has done a good job with other qb's ( hasselbeck,wallace, i also think he made batch look good but cant remember ). If spag's is signed, at least he realizes what an effective dline will do for your total defense, whether he inherited it or not. I would still like to see rivera interviewed for dc. GO SKINS !!!!!!

[Hrabanmaur]

I don't think hiring an OC before the HC is such a faux-pas. If we wait until February to make the change at OC because of the HC search, most candidates will probably be gone, especially up-and-comers like Zorn. I also don't think this will mess with the HC search, since it will most likely be a defensive guy. I think Fassell, like Williams, would have gotten it by now if he was going to get it. My money is on Spagnuolo at this point, and I think that's a great hire. I know someone posted concerns earlier about everyone in the nfc east already knowing his defense, but that didn't seem to make a bit of difference in NY. He's done an amazing job maximizing the talent on his roster, and even getting a suspect secondary to overperform. I'm personally glad that we're going young and aggressive on both sides of the ball. Gibbs did his part with his older coaching staff to bring some stability to the organization; it looks like now is as good a time as any to innovate.

Saunders may not have gotten a fair shake, but perhaps it just wasn't a good fit for either party. I got no hard feelings for the guy and wish him all the best. He did the best he could with a difficult hand.

[GWBlitzST]

From ProFootballWeekly's whispers today:



Translation: we know who we're hiring, we're just waiting until after the super bowl.

Spags will bring some attitude to the team, that's for sure. Who will be DC? Williams? How much will the new coach get paid? Certainly not Gibbs money?

[shally]

From ProFootballWeekly's whispers today:



Translation: we know who we're hiring, we're just waiting until after the super bowl.

absolutely true .... means it likely isnt schwartz or meeks or ryan because there is no reason to hold back now

favors spagnuolo and leaves the door open a crack for mcdaniel because the defense is now in secure hands under blache

[shally]

Spags will bring some attitude to the team, that's for sure. Who will be DC? Williams? How much will the new coach get paid? Certainly not Gibbs money?

DC is blache.. a very solid move.. he has experience as a DC and the complete respect of the def players

[rhummer37]

Blache to be Def Coordinator!

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34109

There is some continuity for those concerned

[mexskins]

Well, Im changing to a positive mindset now.

Welcome coach Zorn. Im a redskins fan and I wish you the best.

Hail from Mexico !!!

[JasonCampbell]

Assuming Zorn brings Holmgren's style of the WCO, here are some quotes on Holmgren and his brand of offense:

Mike Holmgren professes that it takes three years to make a quarterback in the West Coast offense, and it takes five years for a West Coast quarterback to become a very good one.

"I've always said it takes three years, but three to where they know where to go," Holmgren said. "Then, in years four and five, you polish your trade to really become good, not just to know what to do, but do it well. It takes until then so they know where to go, [and] to make the throw. It takes until then where you know you're getting this type of pressure here, so sidestep and make the throw. That's what you get the more you play the position."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2311953

Some other notes from this article of interest:

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/73828/488

Quarterback play: Signal-callers should be mobile and football-smart. They will be expected to make reads at the line of scrimmage to figure out who the hot (or primary) read is on any given play. Touch and accuracy are usually a must; while a strong arm is a nice asset, isn't the most important thing. The ability to see the field and either get rid of the ball or make a play after the three- or five-step drop is important as well.

As is evident from the general features, the quarterback is the key to a West Coast offense. You can't run this type of offense successfully with a quarterback that can't make quick reads and sharp, precise passes. As a result, certain quarterbacks in the league aren't suited for - and as a result should never play in - a West Coast offense.

[mexskins]

Thanks for the Info JC. I was about to ask about it.

So, it itakes 3 years to learn the offense. I wonder if we may get a backup QB that knows the system.

[JasonCampbell]

Thanks for the Info JC. I was about to ask about it.

So, it itakes 3 years to learn the offense. I wonder if we may get a backup QB that knows the system.

I'm more concerned with Snyder not being happy with the results after two years and either firing Zorn or drafting a QB.

Rinse, lather, repeat

[shoogknight]

we go after hackett now that zorn is the OC

[KidBroSweets]

we go after hackett now that zorn is the OC

Ahh yeah, didnt think about that. Hackett would be a nice big target to have.

[hogs86]

A friend called me today and we talked about Jim Zorn. He is a huge Seattle fan. He told me we will fall in love with Zorn he is the Art Monk of Seattle. Outside of Steve Largent he is the fan favorite of the seahawks. We got a very special coach.

[skinsfan45]

i hope the Zorn move is a good one - the offense needs lots of help - can't say i'll miss AS, but i wish him well wherever he goes, he seems to be a decent guy just not a good fit for the Skins

[CNYSkinFan]

Assuming Zorn brings Holmgren's style of the WCO, here are some quotes on Holmgren and his brand of offense:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2311953

Some other notes from this article of interest:

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/73828/488
Except for the fact that JC ran a WC style offense in his senior year in Auburn. Also from JLC's blog I would bet Zorn is going to build an offense around JC instead of expecting him to fit his offense

"The quarterback situation is one of the reasons that I want to be there and work with Jason," said Zorn, who formerly coached the Seattle Seahawks' quarterbacks. "Focusing in on the QB is important to me. Now, I'll have the opportunity to focus on the entire offense as well as the QB, so I'm excited about that."



sounds good enough to me

[ChiefPowhatan17]

A special coach, I hope so, I am happy with this decision to get Zorn, but it is strange and out of order to have an OC before a HC.

[JasonCampbell]

Also from JLC's blog I would bet Zorn is going to build an offense around JC instead of expecting him to fit his offense

Being a Redskin fan, I don't quite understand this concept. So, you actually try to tailor an offense around the talent you have, instead of trying to fit round pegs into square holes...interesting

:awesomewo

[smoak]

Goodbye Santan Moss. It was great to know you, and we'll always have that dallass game from'05...

In two years I am fully expecting to be drafting the next QB of the future.

[hogs86]

Being a Redskin fan, I don't quite understand this concept. So, you actually try to tailor an offense around the talent you have, instead of trying to fit round pegs into square holes...interesting

:awesomewo


Don Shula use to do that all of the time. :sun:

[skinsfan36]

we go after hackett now that zorn is the OC

its a good possibilty imo

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

A friend called me today and we talked about Jim Zorn. He is a huge Seattle fan. He told me we will fall in love with Zorn he is the Art Monk of Seattle. Outside of Steve Largent he is the fan favorite of the seahawks. We got a very special coach.

I'm feelin all the character stuff. I gotta admit it. Maybe a little ironic with the negative perspective on Snyder, but any connection to Gibbs completely cleans his slate.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Assuming Zorn brings Holmgren's style of the WCO, here are some quotes on Holmgren and his brand of offense:



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2311953

Some other notes from this article of interest:

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/73828/488

Hey, great! I CANNOT wait for the 2011 season!! Yeah!!

[colkurtz]

Zorn will maximize the potential of JC. This kid has only another year or so to prove himself before he starts to be accused of a 'bust'.

This really good guy is finally getting his chance as an OC to shine in the NFL.

some here have long faces and wanted continuity - but this offense has been below the NFL average for the last 4 years for points and yardage.

I'm ready for a change and new perspective for the future!

[skinfanjon]

Goodbye Santan Moss. It was great to know you, and we'll always have that dallass game from'05...

In two years I am fully expecting to be drafting the next QB of the future.

Um, what is this about?

[Syllable]

Um, what is this about?

realization.

[sinskin]

Still trying to figure out what great quals does Zorn have to take us to the next level other then working with JC.... The HC should be Fassel ...(please I didnt say this if anyone asks) due the fact he is a offensive minded coach.

[openallnight]

Goodbye Santan Moss. It was great to know you, and we'll always have that dallass game from'05...

In two years I am fully expecting to be drafting the next QB of the future.


2 years??? Could be as early as this April.

[smoak]

2 years??? Could be as early as this April.

You're giving the FO credit that they'll know they need a QB this early. ;) I'd love Flacco early on day 2 (yeah, we'd have to trade) or even maybe in round 3. He needs time to adjust to a pro system, but the ability is there. Plus he is a Blue Hen!!

Santana isn't a great fit in what I am imagining the new offense will be... At least not at the money he makes and the performance he has given the past couple years. Man, I am NEVER buying a jersey again until either 1) we win a Super Bowl or 2) the player is here for 10 years....

[JsMaViSd]

You're giving the FO credit that they'll know they need a QB this early. ;) I'd love Flacco early on day 2 (yeah, we'd have to trade) or even maybe in round 3. He needs time to adjust to a pro system, but the ability is there. Plus he is a Blue Hen!!

Santana isn't a great fit in what I am imagining the new offense will be... At least not at the money he makes and the performance he has given the past couple years. Man, I am NEVER buying a jersey again until either 1) we win a Super Bowl or 2) the player is here for 10 years....

Cooley is your best bet for a Jersey really

[greatest2]

how long does it take JC to learn this new system? the recievers learn? are they a good fit for the system, being short and fast?

while i like the prospect of a new offense, because the current one was lack luster, i don't like the prospect of jc learning everything new, and going through another year like this year, and then everybody says he is a bust, the FO drafts a QB and then we have ruined another young QB.

i hope JC picks this up fast, and i think ak said he played a similar system back at auburn so hopefully he can pick that up, but from what i understand Holmegran system is extremely complicated and just as much so as Saunders, so i expect another year of the same on offense next year, and i hope the FO doesn't jump the boat and go for a QB after this season.

[greatest2]

You're giving the FO credit that they'll know they need a QB this early. ;) I'd love Flacco early on day 2 (yeah, we'd have to trade) or even maybe in round 3. He needs time to adjust to a pro system, but the ability is there. Plus he is a Blue Hen!!

Santana isn't a great fit in what I am imagining the new offense will be... At least not at the money he makes and the performance he has given the past couple years. Man, I am NEVER buying a jersey again until either 1) we win a Super Bowl or 2) the player is here for 10 years....

i understand the superbowl one, but if you buy a guys jersey who has been on the team 10 years isn't he do to retire soon? or the FO probably let the old vet go? maybe you want it so it can be a retro of a great as well, ala Darrell green 70th anniversary (also his 20th and last year)

[smoak]

i understand the superbowl one, but if you buy a guys jersey who has been on the team 10 years isn't he do to retire soon? or the FO probably let the old vet go? maybe you want it so it can be a retro of a great as well, ala Darrell green 70th anniversary (also his 20th and last year)


Not to get too far off topic...

That is basically what I am getting at... I don't mind if a player is gone, but what bothers me is when the player was a short term member of the team or a bust ( Istill usually see at least one Westbrook jersey every game or so). I'll wear my Stephen Davis, Terry Allen, Darrell Green, and Arrington (got it for < $10) jerseys again b/c they were all favorite players that performed as Redskins.

Basically I have done well picking and choosing my jersey purchases, but if Moss is gone THIS year, he'll be my first "bust". Hopefully he stays and has a monster year, but my gut is that his days are numbered.

Probably the best time to buy is when a rookie signs his second deal (i.e. Cooley). That way you are getting both contracts which should be ~ 8 years.

[colkurtz]

2 years??? Could be as early as this April.

That's crazy. There are questions marks with JC but he has shown excellent potential. If Collins stays we have a great backup. JC will have the entire 2008 season to prove what he has under a OC who knows how to get greatness out of a QB. If Jason flounders then NEXT draft season they may be thinking about a QB.

We have way too many holes to fill - DE, CB, SS, OL with our six draft picks to start drafting a QB when we may have our franchise QB here, right now. That would really be a luxury pick for us this draft.

[colkurtz]

Not to get too far off topic...

That is basically what I am getting at... I don't mind if a player is gone, but what bothers me is when the player was a short term member of the team or a bust ( Istill usually see at least one Westbrook jersey every game or so). I'll wear my Stephen Davis, Terry Allen, Darrell Green, and Arrington (got it for < $10) jerseys again b/c they were all favorite players that performed as Redskins.

Basically I have done well picking and choosing my jersey purchases, but if Moss is gone THIS year, he'll be my first "bust". Hopefully he stays and has a monster year, but my gut is that his days are numbered.

Probably the best time to buy is when a rookie signs his second deal (i.e. Cooley). That way you are getting both contracts which should be ~ 8 years.

Get the rookies who you think will stay for the longest jersey life. That's what I did with Cooley in his rookie season.

[openallnight]

That's crazy. There are questions marks with JC but he has shown excellent potential. If Collins stays we have a great backup. JC will have the entire 2008 season to prove what he has under a OC who knows how to get greatness out of a QB. If Jason flounders then NEXT draft season they may be thinking about a QB.

We have way too many holes to fill - DE, CB, SS, OL with our six draft picks to start drafting a QB when we may have our franchise QB here, right now. That would really be a luxury pick for us this draft.

I was being facetious with my comment. I do think JC will be our starter goin' into 08. But, I also think he will struggle with the west coast offense and don't see him lasting more than a season.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Just get a Vinny Cerrato jersey. He isn't leaving anytime soon.

Here is one, for example:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7290/ff97018swe7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[CNYSkinFan]

Just get a Vinny Cerrato jersey. He isn't leaving anytime soon.

Here is one, for example:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7290/ff97018swe7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
classic

[JsMaViSd]

Just get a Vinny Cerrato jersey. He isn't leaving anytime soon.

Here is one, for example:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7290/ff97018swe7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

lmao

[redwolf1218]

2 years??? Could be as early as this April.

i assume Collins and Brunell will be gone, Collins will follow Saunders, and Brunell follows Gibbs into the sunset...we are going to need 2 more QB's at least as backups... i wouldnt be surprised if Zorn brought Charlie Frye or Seneca Wallace here to help install his system, plus dafted another QB.

[The Skinsinator]

Just get a Vinny Cerrato jersey. He isn't leaving anytime soon.

Here is one, for example:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7290/ff97018swe7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)LMAO. Danny's already began aggressively marketing it also keeping Cerrato's self esteem consistently low.

[greatest2]

i assume Collins and Brunell will be gone, Collins will follow Saunders, and Brunell follows Gibbs into the sunset...we are going to need 2 more QB's at least as backups... i wouldnt be surprised if Zorn brought Charlie Frye or Seneca Wallace here to help install his system, plus dafted another QB.

agree. seneca wallace would be nice as a back-up, he would know the system like collins knows saunders system. I don't think seattle will give him up tho, he also plays some scant back/wide out for them in special packages and is viable as there back-up. I don't know who we will get to be our primary back -up, but i hope its a vet with some experience in the west coast, the more help JC has the better.

as for the 3rd qb, what about palmer, the guy we drafted a little bit ago. brother of carson. he can sit back and be tutored by a qb molder as well as in a qb friendly system. might be a good thought

[Redskin4Life]

Wallace is signed through 2010 so we would have to trade for him. I like trying to bring in Jordan Palmer. But we'll still need a vet QB from that system. Maybe an Andy Reid or Holmgren retread.

Wallace signing:
http://www.seahawks.com/News/News.aspx?id=56946

[JsMaViSd]

lets just sign brett favre to a 5 year 45 million dollar contract

[greatest2]

Wallace is signed through 2010 so we would have to trade for him. I like trying to bring in Jordan Palmer. But we'll still need a vet QB from that system. Maybe an Andy Reid or Holmgren retread.

Wallace signing:
http://www.seahawks.com/News/News.aspx?id=56946

what he said

[skinsfan36]

i was thinking tim rattay would be a good backup

[Hr fan]

Agree both Collins and Brunell are gone. Collins only advantage is his knowledge of Saunder's system, so if Al goes to StL look for Todd there. The only reason Brunell got a paycheck this year was Gibb's feeling of committment to him. Doubt if he recycles anywhere. As far as Seneca Wallace, we have ARE. Wallace brings nothing new to the party. We need an experienced b/u tho. While Rattay is mentioned, I only hope that the QB need, which is acute, doesn't cost us valuable draft picks.

[mossme89]

this is great

[GWBlitzST]

Not to get too far off topic...

That is basically what I am getting at... I don't mind if a player is gone, but what bothers me is when the player was a short term member of the team or a bust ( Istill usually see at least one Westbrook jersey every game or so). I'll wear my Stephen Davis, Terry Allen, Darrell Green, and Arrington (got it for < $10) jerseys again b/c they were all favorite players that performed as Redskins.

Basically I have done well picking and choosing my jersey purchases, but if Moss is gone THIS year, he'll be my first "bust". Hopefully he stays and has a monster year, but my gut is that his days are numbered.

Probably the best time to buy is when a rookie signs his second deal (i.e. Cooley). That way you are getting both contracts which should be ~ 8 years.

Obviously the Sean Taylor jersey was the best you could ever hope to get. Lived a Skin, died a Skin. I kind of want a Landry jersey now, I think he'll be a career Redskins.