williams is out of the running (espn)

[soch21]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3215121

wake me up when it's over!!! never thought it could get any worse then last year!!

[JasonCampbell]

He was just on ESPN radio, said pretty much everything in that article. This is so depressing. Now we got Snyder pulling this smear campaign crap against Williams. Terrible.

[The Skinsinator]

Danny is trying to cover his ars once again. I'm still pissed he couldn't tell any of the coordinators himself about the lack of coaching decision up to this point and he had to have the retired Gibbs do it. He is a joke. Cerrato and him will not take us to the super bowl people not in a million years. But we'll also still put our hearts/soul into the team and money as alot of people do as Dan certainly mandates.

[soch21]

i used to be proud i was a skins fan... not anymore!!! why would williams bad mouth joe gibbs? this one is going to get shoved up our a--!!!

[KidBroSweets]

We're going nuuuuuuuuuuuuts cause we didnt hire Gregg Williams. Listen, I wanted Gregg, dont get me wrong. However, its just Gregg Williams. He's not proven at all and apparently he has a huge ego. He's been a solid defensive coordinator, but not great. Its really not that big of a deal....and Im a Williams guy. The past 4 yrs have been extremely mediocre. Changing it up wouldnt be the worst thing.

[skinfanjon]

Confirms what we have known for quite some time now. I for one am elated that the double G will be nowhere near the Skins next year.

[haribol]

i am so glad gwilly is coming out, i hope he gives more interviews and fights back at this.

this makes my head hurt so much more, and i thought it won't get worse. not only does this make us look like crap throughout the league, dan snyder has become what AL DAVIS took 40 yrs to do.....he has gone totally madd, the worst owner in the league now! worse than bidwell!

how do the skins move forward from this; damn you $nyerrato damn you!!! you just lost a ton of fans!

[akhhorus]

He was just on ESPN radio, said pretty much everything in that article. This is so depressing. Now we got Snyder pulling this smear campaign crap against Williams. Terrible.

Why exactly does Snyder have to spin Williams' interviews again? He can hire whomever he wants and let it leak that Williams wasn't good enough. Making up a story like this doesn't make much sense for Snyder to do even to spin it for the fans/players.

[hogs86]

The reason why they are going to anounce the new coach after the SB is the new coach will be Spanuolo. I bet they already have a deal with him. You do not name Zorn then hire the head coach. Spanuolo more then likely told the redskins that is who he wanted. If it was Fassel they would have already named him as the coach.

[RedskinRyan]

The reason why they are going to anounce the new coach after the SB is the new coach will be Spanuolo. I bet they already have a deal with him. You do not name Zorn then hire the head coach. Spanuolo more then likely told the redskins that is who he wanted. If it was Fassel they would have already named him as the coach.

Zorn wasn't exactly a hot commodity, so why the rush to sign him?

[JasonCampbell]

Why exactly does Snyder have to spin Williams' interviews again? He can hire whomever he wants and let it leak that Williams wasn't good enough. Making up a story like this doesn't make much sense for Snyder to do even to spin it for the fans/players.

95% of fans want Gregg Williams to be the coach. Maybe not on this board, but if you go to ES or listen to Redskins Radio, Sports talk 980, etc., it is nearly unanimous for Williams. Snyder knows this.

So to avoid a fan rebellion, why not make up that Williams slammed our beloved coach?

I don't have a huge problem hiring Williams. Yes, I would like for him to get it just for some continuity (preferred offensively more than defensively, but Saunders was gonna get canned no matter what). I'm more concerned with what outside coaches think of our organization. Who in their right mind would want to come here?

[skinfanjon]

Why exactly does Snyder have to spin Williams' interviews again? He can hire whomever he wants and let it leak that Williams wasn't good enough. Making up a story like this doesn't make much sense for Snyder to do even to spin it for the fans/players.

Hey man, lets just be glad he's gone.:Partyred:

[akhhorus]

95% of fans want Gregg Williams to be the coach. Maybe not on this board, but if you go to ES or listen to Redskins Radio, Sports talk 980, etc., it is nearly unanimous for Williams. Snyder knows this.

So to avoid a fan rebellion, why not make up that Williams slammed our beloved coach?

If Snyder cares so much about fan opinion that he'll consider it when hiring a coach, he would just hire Williams and let G-Dub fail(even after a year or two) AND not bother with interviewing other candidates except for window dressing. Something he said in those interviews which turned off Snyderatto. Williams' denials are bizarre frankly. And to be frank, I buy that Williams tried to throw Gibbs under the bus.

I don't have a huge problem hiring Williams. Yes, I would like for him to get it just for some continuity (preferred offensively more than defensively, but Saunders was gonna get canned no matter what). I'm more concerned with what outside coaches think of our organization. Who in their right mind would want to come here?

There are 32 NFL head coaching job, the pinnacle of the coaching profession throughout football. If you're offered one, you rarely pass.

[akhhorus]

Hey man, lets just be glad he's gone.:Partyred:

Believe me I am man. I've had a celebratory bourbon or 10 over it lol.

[ChapelHillMatt]

We're going nuuuuuuuuuuuuts cause we didnt hire Gregg Williams. Listen, I wanted Gregg, dont get me wrong. However, its just Gregg Williams. He's not proven at all and apparently he has a huge ego. He's been a solid defensive coordinator, but not great. Its really not that big of a deal....and Im a Williams guy. The past 4 yrs have been extremely mediocre. Changing it up wouldnt be the worst thing.

What I don't like his he's taking the high road here and that article made it sound like we were going to throw him under the bus to make it sound like he's the bad guy.

He did some very good things for us, I'm going to miss him. Before he got here our defenses were pretty bad, he at least helped us fix that side of the ball.

[joethefan]

95% of fans want Gregg Williams to be the coach. Maybe not on this board, but if you go to ES or listen to Redskins Radio, Sports talk 980, etc., it is nearly unanimous for Williams. Snyder knows this.

So to avoid a fan rebellion, why not make up that Williams slammed our beloved coach?

I don't have a huge problem hiring Williams. Yes, I would like for him to get it just for some continuity (preferred offensively more than defensively, but Saunders was gonna get canned no matter what). I'm more concerned with what outside coaches think of our organization. Who in their right mind would want to come here?



People forget that it's Snyders' team, if he doesn't think Gregg is not good enough then why would he make up a story like that....

I for one am Ok with Danny taking his time...at least we know he's trying to get it right...

I know this, I said a long time ago that if and when and however Joe leaves, the fans wil automatically turn against Danny.

[haribol]

this has just been handled piss poor to say the least. why do it this way? whoever $nyerrato picks as the next HC, coaching staff; no reason to treat people this way.

you make a HOF coach call up his ex-staff to appraise them of the situation? why, what class is that? you don't keep them updated at all in 16 plus days..ridiculous!

what new HC can come in here and turn it around in this hoopla? who are the players going to believe based on the past history (see ryan clark, pierce, laVar etc) we basically are destorying everything that we had going for us!!!

winning solves everything but do you think the skins can win with all this BS, i mean the players are going take their HC's side privately and they definitely will be resentfull, i mean no 'rookie' coach stands a chance!....only saviour at this point would be the 'chin! (and as it stands now that is not a possibility) and personally i don't know how he can win here either, w/o a true FO.

[hogs86]

Zorn wasn't exactly a hot commodity, so why the rush to sign him?



I was really taking by surprise when they said he was with the redskins. I thought Seattle was going to make him a deal he could not turn down. Matt Hasselbeck was on the NFL network and said we just got one heck of a coach.

[guinness4health]

i mean no 'rookie' coach stands a chance!

seriously??

[PennSkinsFan]

Why exactly does Snyder have to spin Williams' interviews again? He can hire whomever he wants and let it leak that Williams wasn't good enough. Making up a story like this doesn't make much sense for Snyder to do even to spin it for the fans/players.

I agree. Snyder need not spin anything. He owns the team, he controls, he paid for it, he can hire whoever he wants. Personally, I think we all better be prepared for Jim Fassel, because I think the Jim Zorn hiring was a signal for that.

[akhhorus]

I agree. Snyder need not spin anything. He owns the team, he controls, he paid for it, he can hire whoever he wants. Personally, I think we all better be prepared for Jim Fassel, because I think the Jim Zorn hiring was a signal for that.

I dunno. If they were going to hire Fassel with Zorn, they would have done that already...then worked on the DC slot. I think they like Zorn, and will hire a defensive minded head coach(Spagnolo).

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I agree. Snyder need not spin anything. He owns the team, he controls, he paid for it, he can hire whoever he wants. Personally, I think we all better be prepared for Jim Fassel, because I think the Jim Zorn hiring was a signal for that.

I agree, but why did the Gibbs thing even come out in the first place. Who is the leak that leaked that? I'm sure it wasn't GW, so it has to be someone on the Redskins side.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I dunno. If they were going to hire Fassel with Zorn, they would have done that already...then worked on the DC slot. I think they like Zorn, and will hire a defensive minded head coach(Spagnolo).

That's the way I read it too. Maybe even Ryan or Schwartz gets in there again after meeting with Spags.

[shally]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3215121

wake me up when it's over!!! never thought it could get any worse then last year!!

good...

[shally]

Confirms what we have known for quite some time now. I for one am elated that the double G will be nowhere near the Skins next year.

totally agree

Why exactly does Snyder have to spin Williams' interviews again? He can hire whomever he wants and let it leak that Williams wasn't good enough. Making up a story like this doesn't make much sense for Snyder to do even to spin it for the fans/players.

gratuitously unnecessary. just say he didnt make the cut, or the team is going in another direction...end of story.. why even drag gibbs into it ?

[akhhorus]

That's the way I read it too. Maybe even Ryan or Schwartz gets in there again after meeting with Spags.

Mark me down for not being surprised if Schwartz(and I hope so, because I look forward to the 3 years of the 'My schwartz is bigger than yours' jokes) gets the gig.

[hogs86]

I wish Williams well. But i am happy he is not the head coach. IMO everything will work out ok. For the Williams fans and all of the Snyder haters this is for the best.


"Ah, Turkey Lurkey," said Chicken Little, "the sky is falling, and Henny Penny and Ducky Daddles and Goosey Loosey and I go to tell the king." ...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Why exactly does Snyder have to spin Williams' interviews again? He can hire whomever he wants and let it leak that Williams wasn't good enough. Making up a story like this doesn't make much sense for Snyder to do even to spin it for the fans/players.

All this may be true, but who leaked it then? It came from somewhere. I'm sure GW didn't leak it.

[akhhorus]

All this may be true, but who leaked it then? It came from somewhere. I'm sure GW didn't leak it.

It could have been leaked by GW's camp, followed by the quick "denials" to make him look like a victim of a smear by Snyder to help his job prospects. Funny that he mentioned that immediately...hmmmm...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Mark me down for not being surprised if Schwartz(and I hope so, because I look forward to the 3 years of the 'My schwartz is bigger than yours' jokes) gets the gig.

I know you think we can adapt quickly to a Rex Ryan scheme, but Schwartz is interesting because we can continue what we should have been doing for the last 4 years here. Plus, Tenn. defense has absolutely carried that team since VY took over. Pretty impressive.

[shally]

The reason why they are going to anounce the new coach after the SB is the new coach will be Spanuolo. I bet they already have a deal with him. You do not name Zorn then hire the head coach. Spanuolo more then likely told the redskins that is who he wanted. If it was Fassel they would have already named him as the coach.

cant do it.. the charges of tampering would be upheld and would cost the skins big time

they have to abide by the process regs

[shally]

Zorn wasn't exactly a hot commodity, so why the rush to sign him?

because the hawks would likely have signed him to be OC to follow holmgren

[SkinsfaninNJ]

cant do it.. the charges of tampering would be upheld and woud cost the skins big time

they have to abide by the process regs

Plus, I'm sure Snyder would like to meet with him first. This is not something Snyder is going to take lightly, which is why I'm not certain that Spags beats out Schwartz, Meeks and Ryan.

[shally]

Believe me I am man. I've had a celebratory bourbon or 10 over it lol.

pass that blanton's my friend...

[akhhorus]

pass that blanton's my friend...

Thats always my capstone drink to the night. Its cheap in the People's Republic of Maryland, I was out with some fellow gamecocks drinking Elijah Craig in Georgetown lol. Hopefully I ruined my friend's credit lmao.

[shally]

Mark me down for not being surprised if Schwartz(and I hope so, because I look forward to the 3 years of the 'My schwartz is bigger than yours' jokes) gets the gig.

like GW without the whole psychodrama that is his persona

still, i think they are waiting for spanuolo and it will be his job to lose at interview. if he flames out the rex ryan, schwartz and perhaps meeks comes into play. but it willl be a defensive coach

[shally]

Plus, I'm sure Snyder would like to meet with him first. This is not something Snyder is going to take lightly, which is why I'm not certain that Spags beats out Schwartz, Meeks and Ryan.

you are correct.. but on the face of it, i still think that spagnuolo has the inside track.. they would not have to wait to announce ryan, meeks or schwartz... only spagnuolo presents that problem (and no, i dont think we are going with mcdaniel or caldwell even though they might get an interview)

[greatest2]

this is disappointing, but with the the new offensive coach i didn't care about continuity anymore. once the offense was changed might as well change everything.

i read the article, and there is nothing in there that says snyder has said williams bad mouthed THE head coach of the skins. it only says that those close to him think that the skins MAY try it. i doubt it, it is worthless and to transparent.

who will be DC??? Jim S.? he can't get out of titanville tho, unless we do a little talk with fischer and tell him he can have williams now. thats my choice currently

i can't believe i am ssaying this: welcome to washington, head coach Jim Fassel.:(

[shally]

Thats always my capstone drink to the night. Its cheap in the People's Republic of Maryland, I was out with some fellow gamecocks drinking Elijah Craig in Georgetown lol. Hopefully I ruined my friend's credit lmao.

craig is decent stuff, but blanton's does it for me... it was about 50 a bottle in new orleans and not even available in yak-town where the state stores do not elect to carry it..

[OCSKINSFAN]

For next year, it now hardly matters who the new coaches will be. The Redskins are a lock for last place in the NFC East. The team cannot be expected to have any chemistry, most likely won't have the right personnel for the new systems, and will be starting from scratch. Compare that to the Cowboys, with the best record in the NFC, the super bowl Giants, and the Eagles with a healthy McNabb, continuity, and who were probably playing as well as anyone at the end of the season. Add in the Skins cap problems, and 1 missing high draft pick, and you get last place.

[akhhorus]

this is disappointing, but with the the new offensive coach i didn't care about continuity anymore. once the offense was changed might as well change everything.

i read the article, and there is nothing in there that says snyder has said williams bad mouthed THE head coach of the skins. it only says that those close to him think that the skins MAY try it. i doubt it, it is worthless and to transparent.

Thats the update, I heard the original report from Mort on Sirius, it said that Williams was dumping on Gibbs.

i can't believe i am ssaying this: welcome to washington, head coach Jim Fassel.:(

That would have happened already.

[akhhorus]

craig is decent stuff, but blanton's does it for me... it was about 50 a bottle in new orleans and not even available in yak-town where the state stores do not elect to carry it..

36 bucks for Blantons here in the greater DC area lol.

[joethefan]

my question is: Why don't the Giants just say that they are opposed to spags leaving at this point. That would put all the rumors aside...IMO.

[greatest2]

Thats the update, I heard the original report from Mort on Sirius, it said that Williams was dumping on Gibbs.



That would have happened already.

ok didn't know the original report. nobody around here actually believes that, do they?




i hope you are right, i personally don't want him. Give me rex ryan, spags, schwartz for head coach now.

i think the fo is still leaning towards fassel, and are just trying to get a dc for him. but i have no facts to back that up, just a gut feeling.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Thats the update, I heard the original report from Mort on Sirius, it said that Williams was dumping on Gibbs.



That would have happened already.

I think Fassel has a shot but more as a last resort. I can't give the edge to Spags yet like Shally. I just can't give anyone the edge who hasn't interviewed. In my mind, Spags is on par with Ryan and Schwartz (maybe Ryan is a bit ahead as being a little sexier a name).

But I agree with Shally that a great interview from Spags will vault him to the leader. But if Snyder is as meh with Spags as he is Schwartz and Meeks, then Fassel could re-emerge.

[BandWagon]

To add a nice touch to this growing quagmire, I half expect my 2008 season ticket invoice to come in the mail next week....what a mess.

[shally]

36 bucks for Blantons here in the greater DC area lol.

honey ! back up the u haul......lol

[SkinsfaninNJ]

my question is: Why don't the Giants just say that they are opposed to spags leaving at this point. That would put all the rumors aside...IMO.

Its not up to the Giants if we are going to offer HC. That's up to Spags. Giants can't do anything about it except throw more money/years/promise to go to the prom at him.

[shally]

my question is: Why don't the Giants just say that they are opposed to spags leaving at this point. That would put all the rumors aside...IMO.

cant keep him any way i can see except to appoint him head coach in waiting after next year.. unless coughlin retires after the SB...

[joethefan]

Its not up to the Giants if we are going to offer HC. That's up to Spags. Giants can't do anything about it except throw more money/years/promise to go to the prom at him.


I thought they could refuse us permission to speak with him...or is his contract up. explain:

[skinfanjon]

For next year, it now hardly matters who the new coaches will be. The Redskins are a lock for last place in the NFC East. The team cannot be expected to have any chemistry, most likely won't have the right personnel for the new systems, and will be starting from scratch. Compare that to the Cowboys, with the best record in the NFC, the super bowl Giants, and the Eagles with a healthy McNabb, continuity, and who were probably playing as well as anyone at the end of the season. Add in the Skins cap problems, and 1 missing high draft pick, and you get last place.



:rolleyes: Thanks for saving me the trouble of watching next year since we know exactly how its going to turn out.

[akhhorus]

ok didn't know the original report. nobody around here actually believes that, do they?


I buy it. It makes sense. Consider this: Williams was recommended by Gibbs when he quit, only to see Williams say something stupid and the Snyderatto didn't have a plan b, so they look bungling.


i think the fo is still leaning towards fassel, and are just trying to get a dc for him. but i have no facts to back that up, just a gut feeling.

They would have hired him already.

honey ! back up the u haul......lol

yeah, I won it from sheep boy in a bet, and I thought I was going to strip him of some serious wool. Stupid Maryland socialist liquor stores.

[shally]

I thought they could refuse us permission to speak with him...or is his contract up. explain:

not if it is for a promotion to HC

[akhhorus]

I thought they could refuse us permission to speak with him...or is his contract up. explain:

For a promotion, they can't.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I thought they could refuse us permission to speak with him...or is his contract up. explain:

Anytime you are going to offer a promotion to a coach, it is up to the coach to turn it down. The team can't prevent him from interviewing (except for league rules about certain times you can't interview while your season is still going).

The team could tempt the assistant by offering more money or a promise to be the next HC (seems to be the case with Mora and Garrett), but it still remains the assistant's decision to stay or go.

[Redskin4Life]

I thought they could refuse us permission to speak with him...or is his contract up. explain:The Giants can't deny us permission to talk to Spags if it's for the HC position. They can for any other position though (similar to the Rex Ryan situ).

[Redskens]

I am so glad that the people on HR are rational. After reading the comments on extreme skins and La Con's blog I was begginning to think that everyone in Redskins world was going crazy. I don't like whats going on but seriously lets wait until we actually know something to ditch the team we love. I guess there are a lot of pissed people out there. I am an O's fan too and if I can stay loyal with that owner I can deal with this.

[joethefan]

For a promotion, they can't.

gotchu!!!

[shally]

I am so glad that the people on HR are rational. After reading the comments on extreme skins and La Con's blog I was begginning to think that everyone in Redskins world was going crazy. I don't like whats going on but seriously lets wait until we actually know something to ditch the team we love. I guess there are a lot of pissed people out there. I am an O's fan too and if I can stay loyal with that owner I can deal with this.

with a solid HC and zorn as OC, plus a decent draft and free agency we will be more than competitive next year

no reason to get morose

[SkinsfaninNJ]

with a solid HC and zorn as OC, plus a decent draft and free agency we will be more than competitive next year

no reason to get morose

I agree. Plus Seattle was WCO, but they featured a heavy dose of the run in running their offense, or have we forgotten former TD and rushing champ Alexander plays there. Plus, they also took shots down the field. Seattle at best was a bastardized version of the WCO. I'm not too worried about the transition.

[Redskens]

with a solid HC and zorn as OC, plus a decent draft and free agency we will be more than competitive next year

no reason to get morose

I agree. I think people easily forget how Williams wouldn't talk to certain players and how our saftey's and cornerbacks didn't meet together in 2006. We have been terrible in the sacks and turnover department for a while now and it starts with the linemen. I want d-linemen! I like the Zorn hiring and if we can get Spags or even Ryan or Schwartz, I think we're in good shape.

[greatest2]

so the report is williams is out, and its coming from Mort and JLC's blog, so its pretty much a given. my question is did williams pull himself out? like reported in JLC blog? or did he not?

[joethefan]

I am so glad that the people on HR are rational. After reading the comments on extreme skins and La Con's blog I was begginning to think that everyone in Redskins world was going crazy. I don't like whats going on but seriously lets wait until we actually know something to ditch the team we love. I guess there are a lot of pissed people out there. I am an O's fan too and if I can stay loyal with that owner I can deal with this.

hang out with us, you'll learn a hell of alot.

[akhhorus]

so the report is williams is out, and its coming from Mort and JLC's blog, so its pretty much a given. my question is did williams pull himself out? like reported in JLC blog? or did he not?

Smells like a dignity play. He has multiple interviews, and they didn't give him the job, and he waits a week to pull out as they interview other people?

[Redskens]

hang out with us, you'll learn a hell of alot.

Oh I have been. I've reading this site for years and got a user name a year ago but barely post. Situations like this make me happy I came across this site before Extreme Skins or anywhere else.

[jaylen]

I wasn't really mad about any of the developments until this whole thing about Willaism that just broke about the team trying to wage a negative campaign against the guy. To me thats pitiful. Don't hire the man but don't make him look bad and mess up other opportunities for the man.

Snyder and Vinny are incompetent plain and simple and because of it we'll stay in disaaray as a franchise incapable of becoming a solid franchise winning year after year.

I fear though that we're becoming even more unstable when I thought we were getting more solid.

Gibbs needs to clean his hands of this thing and walk away and not let himself be used by the process.

The coaching search is becoming irrelevant in predicting our future because unless ownership starts doing things the right way we're gonna be a mess.

[greatest2]

Smells like a dignity play. He has multiple interviews, and they didn't give him the job, and he waits a week to pull out as they interview other people?

i buy that, i and i don't blame the guy. with him being strung along, no contact, goody goody to his face, then this "bad talk of gibbs" from the back door, i wouldn't blame him, and i almost expect it to be so. quess we will now for sure tommorow.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I've been thinking about this disparaging remarks thing with GW.

A rationale explanation could be that GW said something that GW thought was completely true without attempting to throw Gibbs under the bus in discussing the past 4 years, but came off as disparaging against Gibbs in the minds of Snyder and Cerrato. Then, whoever on the Skins side who has a tendancy to talk too much when talking to the media may have mentioned that GW turned Snyder/Cerrato off during the interview using the remarks as an example.

And now it has completely blown up into this big story.

[shally]

I agree. I think people easily forget how Williams wouldn't talk to certain players and how our saftey's and cornerbacks didn't meet together in 2006. We have been terrible in the sacks and turnover department for a while now and it starts with the linemen. I want d-linemen! I like the Zorn hiring and if we can get Spags or even Ryan or Schwartz, I think we're in good shape.

looks like ryan is going to stay in b more ... coming down to meeks, spags and fassel per the post

[Fathead]

If we get a defensive coach (be it DC or HC) who is willing to hit a QB by pressure from the front 4 or a well timed (and I mean well timed) blitz, then we've upgraded from GW.

[hogs86]

cant do it.. the charges of tampering would be upheld and would cost the skins big time

they have to abide by the process regs

Maybe they have a wink or a handshake type of deal going on. Kind of like the Miami had with Tony Sparano Miami could not talk to him but everyone knew he was the Dolphins next coach.

[skinsfan36]

seriously??

um sean payton last year

[skinsfan36]

this is getting crazier by the day lol

[Santheb]

Sigh. What a mix up. Sad times to be a Skins fan, thats for sure.

[joethefan]

people are calling Danny incompetent, I don't think so. Just because he hasn't named a head coach?...That doesn't sound right. So what he's taking his time.

Were people upset at Joe when he just up and decided he didn't want to honor his 5 year contract...like he said he would do many times?

Danny is doing what he feels is best (even though he's practically following the plan Dallas had in the past). We need to just calm down and chill. If Danny named a head coach, it wouldn't matter who he was, many of you would still be upset cuse he didn't hire gregg. Fact is that even gregg had this "I don't care about the player, I care about the system", mentality. ie..letting players go like clark, lavar peirce was his call.....

[joethefan]

A Redskins spokesman said the team would have no comment. Naming an offensive coordinator before the head coach is not unprecedented. The Dallas Cowboys did the same thing when they hired offensive coordinator Jason Garrett before head coach Wade Phillips last year.

does this sound familiar, why can't we do things on our own as opposed to copying someone elses moves esp our arch rivals...doesn't look good

[Axegrinder]

I can't stand Dan Snyder and Vinny Ceratto. They have turned this franchise from Class A organization into a pathetic piece of crap. Their ways of dealing with people (employees) is terrible.

This debacle illustrates why the Old Ball Coach resigned on the golf course. No wonder Marty said he'd never work for him, bet he wished he stucked to his original conclusion. We won't even bring up Norv, and his continued hostility towards the franchise. There is one common thread here and we all know it's Snyder.

I love the Skins, but I can guarantee that Snyder won't see another penny from me. I hope those of you that continue to fill the seats, will not spend any more money at that overpriced stadium. He overcharges the hard working fans to support his poor decision making. If he treats his employees like he does, I can only imagine that he's laughing at us, all the way to the bank.

Snyder has the right to run his business as he sees fit. I have the right to boycott it. Until he starts treating people right, instead of buying them off, he's going to have fewer and fewer people who want to work or be associated with this organization.

Hey Dan, even Al Davis has more class.
Snyder Sucks.

[RoanokeSkin]

I think we all knew that GW was out of the running at this point, but I dont really care for them leaking that he bad mouthed Gibbs. If you dont want to hire the guy... then just say it. You dont need a reason.

[jtovb2005]

95% of fans want Gregg Williams to be the coach. Maybe not on this board, but if you go to ES or listen to Redskins Radio, Sports talk 980, etc., it is nearly unanimous for Williams. Snyder knows this.

So to avoid a fan rebellion, why not make up that Williams slammed our beloved coach?

I don't have a huge problem hiring Williams. Yes, I would like for him to get it just for some continuity (preferred offensively more than defensively, but Saunders was gonna get canned no matter what). I'm more concerned with what outside coaches think of our organization. Who in their right mind would want to come here?

I don't get this stuff about who the fan wants. Does it matter? Does anyone think that Joe Gibbs got 95% of fans wanting him in 1981? Nope. That is not a smart consideration to take into account when picking the next coach.

[mexskins]

I don't get this stuff about who the fan wants. Does it matter? Does anyone think that Joe Gibbs got 95% of fans wanting him in 1981? Nope. That is not a smart consideration to take into account when picking the next coach.

I’m not sure that the fans were so down on Gibbs back then as they are now on Fassel . Gibbs was a very successful coordinator. He was not fired from a team for being incompetent.

Of course Snyder and Cerrtato don’t have to make decisions based on fans but then why come out and say " If it aint broke don’t fix it" ?

I guess we are going to start over.

I guess I will be fine with a young hungry coach but please, not Fassel !

[mexskins]

I think we all knew that GW was out of the running at this point, but I dont really care for them leaking that he bad mouthed Gibbs. If you dont want to hire the guy... then just say it. You dont need a reason.

Unclassy move by Snyder.

If Fassel gets hired we will know that it was a strategy from the Dan.

Sad

[JasonCampbell]

I don't get this stuff about who the fan wants. Does it matter? Does anyone think that Joe Gibbs got 95% of fans wanting him in 1981? Nope. That is not a smart consideration to take into account when picking the next coach.

I'm not saying the fans should pick the head coach. I would hope Snyder wouldn't be influenced by what the fans or the media wants. But I guarantee you after Fassel's name was leaked and their was an outpouring of angry emails, phone calls, etc. into radio stations and message boards, Danny noticed. I would think any owner would want their fan base happy.

Thus, the smear campaign against Williams. JLC's thoughts:

The Redskins are alleging to some media members that Williams somehow disrespected Gibbs during the interview process, and sources close to Williams believe the club has executed a smear campaign on various fronts in recent days to attempt to devalue him as a candidate despite heavy support from fans, coaches and players.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Well I can't say I am angry Williams is gone. I thought he was a disaster waiting to happen at HC, especially with our organizational structure. Anyhow, I am in the camp that thinks this is Spagnuola's (sp?) job to lose now.
Even if he isn't the front runner they have to be after a D minded coach now that Zorn is on board to run the O. Unless they want Fassel to HC, Zorn to OC, and ????? for DC. Not sure what DC's, besides Gregg, are out there now and I am pretty sure we can't hire a DC from another team (Rex Ryan) without providing compensation. I just hope they don't do something foolish and use draft picks to acquire any coaches.

[warpaint]

I can't stand Dan Snyder and Vinny Ceratto. They have turned this franchise from Class A organization into a pathetic piece of crap. Their ways of dealing with people (employees) is terrible.

This debacle illustrates why the Old Ball Coach resigned on the golf course. No wonder Marty said he'd never work for him, bet he wished he stucked to his original conclusion. We won't even bring up Norv, and his continued hostility towards the franchise. There is one common thread here and we all know it's Snyder.

I love the Skins, but I can guarantee that Snyder won't see another penny from me. I hope those of you that continue to fill the seats, will not spend any more money at that overpriced stadium. He overcharges the hard working fans to support his poor decision making. If he treats his employees like he does, I can only imagine that he's laughing at us, all the way to the bank.

Snyder has the right to run his business as he sees fit. I have the right to boycott it. Until he starts treating people right, instead of buying them off, he's going to have fewer and fewer people who want to work or be associated with this organization.

Hey Dan, even Al Davis has more class.
Snyder Sucks.

yeah know what you mean here and agree with you ,once had a boss that treated his employees like cow manure, he lasted 10 years before h.r. found out how he treated the empoyees and fired his sorry butt ,to bad we cant fire
snyder. always heard a fool and his money soon part ways, know now for a fact this isnt true,dan still has money .

[fent]

Well I can't say I am angry Williams is gone. I thought he was a disaster waiting to happen at HC, especially with our organizational structure. Anyhow, I am in the camp that thinks this is Spagnuola's (sp?) job to lose now.
Even if he isn't the front runner they have to be after a D minded coach now that Zorn is on board to run the O. Unless they want Fassel to HC, Zorn to OC, and ????? for DC. Not sure what DC's, besides Gregg, are out there now and I am pretty sure we can't hire a DC from another team (Rex Ryan) without providing compensation. I just hope they don't do something foolish and use draft picks to acquire any coaches.

it's not legal to send picks or cash to another team for anything but a HC. now, there's nothing that says they can't trade a 4th for some random practice squad player the next day, but that would be a disaster PR wise.

i tend to believe that the smear campaign idea is Williams' attempt to defend himself. as has been said, what does Snyder gain from a smear campaign? it makes more sense that Williams was the coach in waiting, said something in the 3 days of interviews, possibly inadvertently, and then there was no legitimate Plan B since he was they had the in house candidate. think about it...over the course of 3 days, it's more likely than not that he said something Snyder didn't like...how many times do you go 3 days without saying something that ends up getting misinterpreted.

[JsMaViSd]

thank god!!

i dont want to see him as HC anyways

[Smiley]

Snyder can hire whomever he wants but remember this is entertainment. Hire Fassel and there will be plenty of us (I think a majority) that will not like it. Snyder talked about continuity? And then you're going to bash Williams in the paper...this is what the guy leaks? I've supported Snyder (even though his name didn't end with Cook) sinve he bought our Redskins. I've defended him to other fans because he is a true Redskins fan. I read an interesting question on a different board: "if stuck on an elevator with Dan Snyder what would you say?" Mr. Snyder, please sell the team, you're ruining this franchise. Hail to the Redskins!

[mexskins]

i tend to believe that the smear campaign idea is Williams' attempt to defend himself. as has been said, what does Snyder gain from a smear campaign? .

I guess you havent been reading posts at Extremeskins.

[44FAN]

I can't stand Dan Snyder and Vinny Ceratto. They have turned this franchise from Class A organization into a pathetic piece of crap. Their ways of dealing with people (employees) is terrible.

This debacle illustrates why the Old Ball Coach resigned on the golf course. No wonder Marty said he'd never work for him, bet he wished he stucked to his original conclusion. We won't even bring up Norv, and his continued hostility towards the franchise. There is one common thread here and we all know it's Snyder.

I love the Skins, but I can guarantee that Snyder won't see another penny from me. I hope those of you that continue to fill the seats, will not spend any more money at that overpriced stadium. He overcharges the hard working fans to support his poor decision making. If he treats his employees like he does, I can only imagine that he's laughing at us, all the way to the bank.

Snyder has the right to run his business as he sees fit. I have the right to boycott it. Until he starts treating people right, instead of buying them off, he's going to have fewer and fewer people who want to work or be associated with this organization.

Hey Dan, even Al Davis has more class.
Snyder Sucks.

I'm with you. I was on the fence about renewing my season tickets anyway. All this just pushed me over the line. And to tell the truth, the gameday experience has no longer become enjoyable for me. Maybe I'm just an old fart but I miss the old RFK days. I can't deal with the traffic, the drunks, the fights, the exagerrated prices on everything. Two people on the waiting list will be happy. I'm done.

[warpaint]

I'm with you. I was on the fence about renewing my season tickets anyway. All this just pushed me over the line. And to tell the truth, the gameday experience has no longer become enjoyable for me. Maybe I'm just an old fart but I miss the old RFK days. I can't deal with the traffic, the drunks, the fights, the exagerrated prices on everything. Two people on the waiting list will be happy. I'm done.

44fan, old fart here also, fan here of the redskins since 1970 , i am done also
tickets going to my son. think all the long time fans here miss the rfk days,and time before free agency .

[akhhorus]

I guess you havent been reading posts at Extremeskins.

You're going to have to explain that further. Fent's point is that why would Snyder go through all this? If he truly was afraid of fan reaction about firing/passing over Williams, he would just hire Williams and set him up to fail in a year. There's just no reason to go through the trouble of a smear campaign on Williiams to try and placate the fans.

[KidBroSweets]

people are calling Danny incompetent, I don't think so. Just because he hasn't named a head coach?...That doesn't sound right. So what he's taking his time.

Were people upset at Joe when he just up and decided he didn't want to honor his 5 year contract...like he said he would do many times?

Danny is doing what he feels is best (even though he's practically following the plan Dallas had in the past). We need to just calm down and chill. If Danny named a head coach, it wouldn't matter who he was, many of you would still be upset cuse he didn't hire gregg. Fact is that even gregg had this "I don't care about the player, I care about the system", mentality. ie..letting players go like clark, lavar peirce was his call.....

LOL exactly! This is what I cant understand about everyone. He hasnt even NAMED a guy yet but we're bashing him! It makes ZERO sense. if we regress and dont make the playoffs then Id maybe understand a bit, but come on, its January for crying out loud. Everyone laughed at Dallas and SD last yr for hiring Norv and Wade and look where they got. We just need to relax and wait til Dan hires someone. I think we're fine. Lets just be patient.

[superskin]

LOL exactly! This is what I cant understand about everyone. He hasnt even NAMED a guy yet but we're bashing him! It makes ZERO sense. if we regress and dont make the playoffs then Id maybe understand a bit, but come on, its January for crying out loud. Everyone laughed at Dallas and SD last yr for hiring Norv and Wade and look where they got. We just need to relax and wait til Dan hires someone. I think we're fine. Lets just be patient.

Interesting. I have stayed away from commenting - not because I am not passionate or love conversing with you guys - but because my brain is scrambled with all of this. But this post nearly sums up what I was going to say, which is....

If we start the season at 5-1 or even 4-2 with Fassel or whoever at head coach, all of this is a non-issue. Winning is simply the miracle antidote that makes any and all of this easy to swallow.

I can't help but feel that all of the fans threatening boycott, ticket burning, etc will gradually work their way back into the stadium if we start off hot.

That doesnt mean I am pro-Snyder. I think the way he is handling all of this is pure psycho. I just think that winning is an incredible mind-eraser.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I don't think people should be bashing Snyder but I don't think we should sit here and act like all things are fine either. None of us know what's happening behind the scenes. Snyder could have this under control or he may have no clue what he's doing.

His track record of hiring coaches aren't good though, nothing we ever do works so I think there should be concern.

If he messes this hire up, then it will set us back for years and years to come. He has to get this right so I'm all for being patient but I'm still worried about it. Until the hire is made I will have my concerns.

[jtovb2005]

I’m not sure that the fans were so down on Gibbs back then as they are now on Fassel . Gibbs was a very successful coordinator. He was not fired from a team for being incompetent.

Of course Snyder and Cerrtato don’t have to make decisions based on fans but then why come out and say " If it aint broke don’t fix it" ?

I guess we are going to start over.

I guess I will be fine with a young hungry coach but please, not Fassel !

I would say the fans did not really know who he was. it was a different time then with how the news got around, how fans discussed these things, much much different.

Until things settle down I think we are going on a bunch of speculation, we really don't know what is going on. I am not a big Danny fan that is for sure but I figure I will just see what happens.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I don't think people should be bashing Snyder but I don't think we should sit here and act like all things are fine either. None of us know what's happening behind the scenes. Snyder could have this under control or he may have no clue what he's doing.

His track record of hiring coaches aren't good though, nothing we ever do works so I think there should be concern.

If he messes this hire up, then it will set us back for years and years to come. He has to get this right so I'm all for being patient but I'm still worried about it. Until the hire is made I will have my concerns.

I agree that none of us know exactly what is going on behind scenes, but I wouldn't bet any amount that Danny and Vinny have everything under control. In many fans eyes I think the appointment of Vinny was the most revealing, puzzling, and overall deflating decision and has amplified the scrutiny of this process.
Given their track record I think everyone just assumes Dan/Vinny don't know what they are doing and will screw it up some how.

[greatest2]

well its pretty official now. JLC reports Gregg had a meeting with snyder and both agreed that he isn't in the running anymore and they have parted ways. Also says that gregg is under contract but have granted him to talk to other teams about future employment, so i guess that means we won't block any move he tries to make. Also says gregg wanted to pull out earlier but stayed cause gibbs asked him to, and that snyder/vinny didn't spread rumors about williams bad mouthing gibbs. So i guess alot of people out there got there wish, gibbs is gone and gregg is gone. i am not one of those alot of people, but i still hope for the best

[CNYSkinFan]

ok guys I have a little pr experience on the professional and near professional level and here is what I make about the mess:

-Williams is parsing his details, which leads me to believe he is hiding something. Clarifying he had 3 interviews instead of 4 for example. Well if I remember right one of those "interviews" was an informal chat with Danny at his house. it is there where Williams probably dumped on Gibbs and that is why Williams can deny saying anything in the "interviews"

-If this was not true, and Williams truly considered himself a real coaching candidate, he would simply deny the report and not offer any details and wait the process out. Instead he is trying to shape public opinion, which means he knows something happened and that he is not going to get the job.

-I have no doubt that snyderato is starting aa smear campaign against williams, that does not mean it is not true. They are trying to shape public opinion as well. What strikes me as a true detail is the whole "missing man" formation thing. I remember that being an issue at the time and very odd Williams did not tell Gibbs, and Gibbs said so publicly. So sndeyato may exaggerate what happened, but it is probably at least a little true.

-Snyderato is goign to lose in this battle of words until they hire a hc and every day they look more and more indecisive and paranoid. They may be right, but perception wont give a damn about that.

[Cowboys Suck]

well its pretty official now. JLC reports Gregg had a meeting with snyder and both agreed that he isn't in the running anymore and they have parted ways. Meaning gregg isn't under contract anymore, or at least thats how i read it. Also says gregg wanted to pull out earlier but stayed cause gibbs asked him to, and that snyder/vinny didn't spread rumors about williams bad mouthing gibbs. So i guess alot of people out there got there wish, gibbs is gone and gregg is gone. i am not one of those alot of people, but i still hope for the best

Just in case anyone wanted to read JLC's recent post

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/01/gregg_williams_is_gone.html

[remaxjon]

Blache in

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235450
PRESS RELEASE
For Immediate Release
January 26, 2008

BLACHE, ZORN NAMED REDSKINS COORDINATORS

ASHBURN, VA – The Washington Redskins today named veteran defensive coach Greg Blache to lead the team’s defense and Jim Zorn as his counterpart on the offense.

The team also released their predecessors, Gregg Williams and Al Saunders.
“I want to thank Gregg and Al for all they did for the team,” Team Owner Daniel M. Snyder said. “In particular, during our most difficult time last year, they both helped hold the team together as we kept moving forward. I am confident they will continue to be successful in the years ahead.”

“Greg Blache is an outstanding coach with deep experience. Players respond to him, and his co-workers respect him. He has our full confidence,” Snyder said. “We’re counting on Jim to continue Jason Campbell’s growth, while moving our offense forward.”

“The process of selecting a new head coach continues, although no hire is planned until after the Super Bowl so as not to distract from the Championship game as well as to keep open all our options,” Snyder added. “We are on track with our interviews, but in the interim we also are filling our coaching positions and re-signing several existing staff members. During our interviews with prospective head coaches we heard time and again how highly respected some of our 2007 assistant coaches were and who they would select to fill out their staffs. That intelligence is helping guide our hiring decisions.”

Blache has been in the NFL for 21 seasons as a defensive coach, serving as the Redskins’ defensive coordinator/defensive line coach for the past four seasons. Zorn joins the Redskins from the Seattle Seahawks, where for the past seven seasons he served as quarterbacks coach for the team that launched his professional career as a player and as a coach.

Blache joined the Redskins in 2004 after five seasons as Chicago’s defensive coordinator. In both cities his units earned a reputation – with the statistics to back it up – as solid, aggressive forces. At Washington, he shares credit for the defensive unit being ranked in the League’s top 10 for three of his four seasons (8th, 9th, 3rd). The story was similar in Chicago, where Blache’s Bears defense was a consistent hard-hitting group, regularly being ranked in the League’s top 10.

Zorn joined the Seahawks as quarterbacks coach in 2001, 25 years after he was the team’s first starting signal-caller when the franchise was founded in 1976, and was named NFC Offensive Rookie of the Year. He led the Seahawks for nine seasons and currently is honored in the team’s Ring of Honor. He is credited with the development of current Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck and the team’s regular high ranking in League offensive statistics, as well as Hasselbeck’s personal Pro Bowl-level performances.

Zorn joined the Seahawks after holding the same position with the Detroit Lions for three seasons after breaking into the League as an offensive assistant with the Seahawks in 1997. Prior to becoming a professional coach, Zorn spent eight seasons in the collegiate ranks, two as quarterback coach at the University of Minnesota, three as Utah State’s offensive coordinator, and three as an offensive assistant/quarterbacks coach at Boise State.

Blache began his professional career as defensive line coach for the Indianapolis Colts for five seasons, and held the same position with the Green Bay Packers for six years after breaking into the League in 1988. He began his coaching career as a defensive assistant at his alma mater Notre Dame in 1968 after suffering a leg injury that ended his playing career. Following his graduation in 1971, he stayed on as a graduate assistant and then as an assistant coach for four seasons. In 1976 he joined Tulane’s staff where in various seasons he coached the offensive line, outside linebackers, and defensive backs. He returned to Notre Dame in 1981 to coach the running backs, followed by the defensive line and linebackers. He was defensive line coach for the USFL’s Jacksonville Bulls for 1984-85, before returning to college to coach at Southern University and Kansas for one season each.
Blache and his wife Lynn have six children. Zorn and his wife Joy have four children.

Players and Coaches Respond To Today’s Announcement:

Former Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs On Greg Blache: “Greg Blache has done a great job for us these past four seasons and is an outstanding coach with the respect of the entire staff and players. He is certainly a key figure in keeping the continuity of the organization.”

Jason Campbell on Redskins Offensive Coordinator Jim Zorn: “I had the opportunity to meet Jim Zorn at the Combine before being drafted by the Redskins and came away really impressed by him. “I've heard a lot of great things about him both as a coach and as a person. I’m looking forward to getting started working with him.”

Redskins Special Teams Coach Danny Smith On Jim Zorn: “I worked with Jim in Detroit and I’m thrilled to be able to work with him again. He is an outstanding coach with respect from everyone throughout the League.”__________________

[greatest2]

Blache in

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235450
__________________




well there you have it, im guessing fassel is in now for sure, so sad

[akhhorus]

well there you have it, im guessing fassel is in now for sure, so sad

Then why isn't Fassel being announced now(or soon) either? Fassel might still be in play, but its far from a certain thing. If they're just curious to talk to Spag, they wouldn't wait the week imo. They would announce Fassel now and get it done with.

[silverspring]

Hiring both the DC and OC before the head coach is beyond odd. My best guess is that because snyder's first choice for head coach, cowher, is not available this year he is creating a stop gap solution....Or that he has a behind the scene agreement with someone like spagnuolo, although that is unlikely.

[greatest2]

Then why isn't Fassel being announced now(or soon) either? Fassel might still be in play, but its far from a certain thing. If they're just curious to talk to Spag, they wouldn't wait the week imo. They would announce Fassel now and get it done with.

i can't see spags coming in with a DC already here, unless Greg has been told the defense will be run similar to williams when greg was only dc by name and williams really ran the D. so unless spags is head coach and greg is just DC by name, i don't see it being done.

so my guess is its 70-30 towards fassel, but there isn't any harm in interviewing spags, even if just to get a feel for other people in your division

[shally]

gotta give snyderato credit for this move. how do you manage to purge a problem and still maintain continuity for the players ?

why you get rid of the problem (GW) and yet you promote his well liked deputy
(blache) to his position. there will be substantive changes in the way the defense is run, and yet the troops cannot complain of unfamiliarity with new DC.
brilliant !

it also tells me for certain that the skins and the HC in waiting have both signed off onthis move. they know exactly who is coming and have pre approved the elevation of blache.

what does this mean ? well, maybe it favors meeks a little bit because he worked as a def coach for the skins and should have been quite familiar with blache.
or that perhaps spanuolo had some contact with blache while he was an assitant with the skins or respects him enough to go with him as DC

or that during the first interview with schwartz the issue of DC was brought up
and he was okay with blache.

i dont think it is fassel because there would be no reason to wait now- just announce it and be done.

it will be spanuolo>meeks>schwartz... outside chance it could be mcdaniel because the defense is in reliable hands with blache and there would be no learning curve. also zorn is a career backup as a coach and would represent little threat to a young guy like mcdaniel, so it could still happen. but i still think it will be a defensive guy

[akhhorus]

i can't see spags coming in with a DC already here, unless Greg has been told the defense will be run similar to williams when greg was only dc by name and williams really ran the D. so unless spags is head coach and greg is just DC by name, i don't see it being done.

so my guess is its 70-30 towards fassel, but there isn't any harm in interviewing spags, even if just to get a feel for other people in your division

Thats what they've done with Blache for the last 4 years(and having a separate DC for a defensive minded HC makes some sense). There's absolutely zero reason to wait another 8-10 days to wait on Spag just to "get a feel" for people in your division. Unless Fassel is announced by Monday morning, it will probably be Spags as head coach.

[greatest2]

Thats what they've done with Blache for the last 4 years(and having a separate DC for a defensive minded HC makes some sense). There's absolutely zero reason to wait another 8-10 days to wait on Spag just to "get a feel" for people in your division. Unless Fassel is announced by Monday morning, it will probably be Spags as head coach.

if that press release is right, they won't announce til after the superbowl. i hope you are right, that it is spags, cause i really don't want fassel.

[shally]

Thats what they've done with Blache for the last 4 years(and having a separate DC for a defensive minded HC makes some sense). There's absolutely zero reason to wait another 8-10 days to wait on Spag just to "get a feel" for people in your division. Unless Fassel is announced by Monday morning, it will probably be Spags as head coach.

you could say the same things about meeks and schwartz as well. no reason to wait any further

probably will be spags BUT you could go mcdaniel now without any fear that the defense would fall apart because of his lack of experience

[esmith1790]

well i guess you hope all players are healthy during training camp and get ready to see the new "O" and "D" in preseason. You think Portis has to play preseason now to get the "O" down. At least you dont have the Gibbs vanilla preseason so we dont show anything on film excuse anymore.

[akhhorus]

if that press release is right, they won't announce til after the superbowl. i hope you are right, that it is spags, cause i really don't want fassel.

Then its Spags or McDaniels' job to lose.

[CNYSkinFan]

I am happy with Blache, this is what I wanted all along, a new OC and Blache to be DC. Now the HC is almost irrelevant, and if it is Fassell, fine, if not fine.

I predict we will probably be looking at upgrading that DL pretty damn soon

[greatest2]

Then its Spags or McRoberts' job to lose.

more spags i think, didn't McDaniels already say he didn't want to interview with any other team for a vacancy? i remember him saying that when the rumors where swirling with Atlanta and stuff.

i wouldn't mind Schwartz either. but he is in the same boat as fassel, it is spags job to lose, and if he doesn't have a good interview, it will probably go to fassel.

[skinfanjon]

gotta give snyderato credit for this move. how do you manage to purge a problem and still maintain continuity for the players ?

why you get rid of the problem (GW) and yet you promote his well liked deputy
(blache) to his position. there will be substantive changes in the way the defense is run, and yet the troops cannot complain of unfamiliarity with new DC.
brilliant !

it also tells me for certain that the skins and the HC in waiting have both signed off onthis move. they know exactly who is coming and have pre approved the elevation of blache.

what does this mean ? well, maybe it favors meeks a little bit because he worked as a def coach for the skins and should have been quite familiar with blache.
or that perhaps spanuolo had some contact with blache while he was an assitant with the skins or respects him enough to go with him as DC

or that during the first interview with schwartz the issue of DC was brought up
and he was okay with blache.

i dont think it is fassel because there would be no reason to wait now- just announce it and be done.

it will be spanuolo>meeks>schwartz... outside chance it could be mcdaniel because the defense is in reliable hands with blache and there would be no learning curve. also zorn is a career backup as a coach and would represent little threat to a young guy like mcdaniel, so it could still happen. but i still think it will be a defensive guy

Excellent post, Shally, I agree almost word for word. I just don't think Meeks or Schwartz are canidates at this point, if either was going to get the job they would go head and announce it now and the same is true for Fassel.

No, they have to have some sort of understanding with Spags and he will become the new head coach. It explains all the misdirection as well as the lengthiness of the interviewing process. Even in the latest JLC blog Snyder is quoted as saying he won't name a coach until after the Super Bowl. The game is over a week a way, there would be plenty of time to name a coach without stealing the spotlight.

Spags has to be the guy, its the only thing that makes sense. I am extemely excited to see this new coaching tree take flight, if it does indeed become Spags, Zorn, and Blatche, I think we've assembled an excellent staff. Again, if it plays out as such, I think Dan and Vinny deserve quite a bit of credit. Reasonable people can disagree as to the route taken, but that particular end result is very exciting.

[lakeskin]

So, do Zorn and Blache know who the new head coach is going to be, or do they not care? I gotta assume they have a really good idea of who the next HC is. At least I would hope so.

[shally]

I am happy with Blache, this is what I wanted all along, a new OC and Blache to be DC. Now the HC is almost irrelevant, and if it is Fassell, fine, if not fine.

I predict we will probably be looking at upgrading that DL pretty damn soon
amen !

it wont be fassel because there would be zero reason to hold back.. and they have said they are continuing to interview

[akhhorus]

more spags i think, didn't McDaniels already say he didn't want to interview with any other team for a vacancy? i remember him saying that when the rumors where swirling with Atlanta and stuff.

i wouldn't mind Schwartz either. but he is in the same boat as fassel, it is spags job to lose, and if he doesn't have a good interview, it will probably go to fassel.

I think that after the Pats win the Super Bowl, he'll start interviewing. He just didn't want to be a distraction.

[skinfanjon]

I am happy with Blache, this is what I wanted all along, a new OC and Blache to be DC. Now the HC is almost irrelevant, and if it is Fassell, fine, if not fine.

I predict we will probably be looking at upgrading that DL pretty damn soon

So, are you officially off the ledge, lol? Gotta admit, if turns out to be Spags (which I think is pretty obvious at this point) then Dan and Vinny did a good job assembling a staff, especially considering neither expected Gibbs to retire so abruptly. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

[Hrabanmaur]

I agree that Blache makes a good DC hire, and I'm glad we'll have everything in place for the new HC. Judging from the press release, Zorn and Blache must have already been approved by the candidate that will get the final offer. My money is on Spag.

As for Williams comments about Gibbs, I hate to comment on rumor from a mysterious "confirmed source" inside the Redskins organization. I hope Danny has plugged up that sieve dumping info to the media because its only destroying reputations and morale.

[esmith1790]

I guess the title of the thread can be modified. Not only is GW out of the running for HC he is out of work too.

[shally]

I guess the title of the thread can be modified. Not only is GW out of the running for HC he is out of work too.


he wont be idle for long.. jax as dc ? assistant to jeff fisher ? tv commentator for 1 year before returning as dc somewhere

[greatest2]

amen !

it wont be fassel because there would be zero reason to hold back.. and they have said they are continuing to interview

well maybe they have fassel graded like a 8.5 and want to see if spags grades above that. if he does its his job, if he doesn't its fassel, or Schwartz, or meeks, etc.

i understand that logic if it where them they would hire them, but i also understand the logic of lets see if spags is the next great thing, and if he doesn't interview well it will be INSERT OTHERS NAMES HERE job.

i believe its spags job to lose, if spags does as well or better then the rest of the interview he is in, if not, then it is the other guy.

[shally]

well maybe they have fassel graded like a 8.5 and want to see if spags grades above that. if he does its his job, if he doesn't its fassel, or Schwartz, or meeks, etc.

i understand that logic if it where them they would hire them, but i also understand the logic of lets see if spags is the next great thing, and if he doesn't interview well it will be INSERT OTHERS NAMES HERE job.

i believe its spags job to lose, if spags does as well or better then the rest of the interview he is in, if not, then it is the other guy.

if i am the giants, i swallow hard right about now and offer spags the title of coach in waiting...
no telling how long coughlin wants to continue to coach

[CNYSkinFan]

So, are you officially off the ledge, lol? Gotta admit, if turns out to be Spags (which I think is pretty obvious at this point) then Dan and Vinny did a good job assembling a staff, especially considering neither expected Gibbs to retire so abruptly. Gotta give credit where credit is due.
well they could have done a better job handling the last two weeks, but with Blache as DC that means olivadottia and other defensive assisstants will probably be retained. May need a new DL and db coach but that is ok.

[skinfanjon]

he wont be idle for long.. jax as dc ? assistant to jeff fisher ? tv commentator for 1 year before returning as dc somewhere

My money is on Jacksonville. Tennessee makes sense but Schwartz is still under contract.

[akhhorus]

My money is on Jacksonville. Tennessee makes sense but Schwartz is still under contract.

I can see him going to the Giants to replace Spags if we hire him.

[skinfanjon]

well they could have done a better job handling the last two weeks, but with Blache as DC that means olivadottia and other defensive assisstants will probably be retained. May need a new DL and db coach but that is ok.

Probably, but if its been Spags all along, they would run the risk of New York claiming we tampered, and they still might. That means we had to be mighty sneaky.

[skinfanjon]

I can see him going to the Giants to replace Spags if we hire him.

Excellent point, it gives him a chance to get back at us twice a year. The plot thickens, lol.

[shally]

I can see him going to the Giants to replace Spags if we hire him.

i thought about that for a second.. i am okay with that. it means they will be purging d linemen ths offseason...lol

dallas has lost a lot of coaches this offseason as well. another possible place

[shally]

Probably, but if its been Spags all along, they would run the risk of New York claiming we tampered, and they still might. That means we had to be mighty sneaky.


all back channel stuff..

but the giants still have the upper hand. promote him to head coach in waiting and there is little we can do about it

[skinfanjon]

i thought about that for a second.. i am okay with that. it means they will be purging d linemen ths offseason...lol

dallas has lost a lot of coaches this offseason as well. another possible place

Frankly, he can go to either one, his defenses don't scare me at all. Dallas would be a stretch though since they run the 3-4.

[akhhorus]

Excellent point, it gives him a chance to get back at us twice a year. The plot thickens, lol.

Fine by me lol. They'll deal away Osi and run the 0-4-7 lmao.

i thought about that for a second.. i am okay with that. it means they will be purging d linemen ths offseason...lol

dallas has lost a lot of coaches this offseason as well. another possible place

Nah, they're a 3-4 team. Williams will go to Jax or Nyc, otherwise he'll sit out a year.

[skinfanjon]

all back channel stuff..

but the giants still have the upper hand. promote him to head coach in waiting and there is little we can do about it

Why would he want to wait for HC position in the most scrutinized media market when he could just come here for more money now? You know we won't be outbid for a coach we truly want.

[shally]

Frankly, he can go to either one, his defenses don't scare me at all. Dallas would be a stretch though since they run the 3-4.


they lost todd bowles and pasqualoni who were db and lb coach.. either one would fit GW well
he wont be a DC unless he goes to jax, i assume

[akhhorus]

they lost todd bowles and pasqualoni who were db and lb coach.. either one would fit GW well
he wont be a DC unless he goes to jax, i assume

I seriously doubt he would become a position coach. He has too much pride for that. If he didn't get a coordinator's gig, he'll sit a year and collect checks from The Danny.

[shally]

Why would he want to wait for HC position in the most scrutinized media market when he could just come here for more money now? You know we won't be outbid for a coach we truly want.

you never know what makes some people tick

maybe his family is from the ny area ???

i just wouldnt pre judge the siutation, but i personally feel that the most prestigious head coaching position in the world is either the manger of the ny yankees or the hc of the washington redskins

[shally]

I seriously doubt he would become a position coach. He has too much pride for that. If he didn't get a coordinator's gig, he'll sit a year and collect checks from The Danny.

my guess as well... but jerry gray had to do that... greg blache too

gregg looks like the talking head type. i can see him and deion chumming it up

[skinfanjon]

you never know what makes some people tick

maybe his family is from the ny area ???

i just wouldnt pre judge the siutation, but i personally feel that the most prestigious head coaching position in the world is either the manger of the ny yankees or the hc of the washington redskins

Fair enough, but if I'm the Giants, I'm sweating big time. And we should all be prepared for the inevitable tampering claim from them that will go nowhere, lol. We have covered our tracks well.

[Gravy]

Is there a chance of another canidate that ya'll aren't seeing or is this Spags job?

[skinfanjon]

Is there a chance of another canidate that ya'll aren't seeing or is this Spags job?

I suppose McDaniels is in play, but to me its Spags job to lose. Fassel is the fallback option, which is why he's miffed and feeling manipulated. Its all starting to make sense.

[Gravy]

I suppose McDaniels is in play, but to me its Spags job to lose. Fassel is the fallback option, which is why he's miffed and feeling manipulated. Its all starting to make sense.

Little by little...I actually like the Zorn hire and Blache promotion, I'm sure it's Spags job but nothing will surpise me at this point.

[Skins7ny]

You're going to have to explain that further. Fent's point is that why would Snyder go through all this? If he truly was afraid of fan reaction about firing/passing over Williams, he would just hire Williams and set him up to fail in a year. There's just no reason to go through the trouble of a smear campaign on Williiams to try and placate the fans.
False. Snyder knows that the players and the majority of the fan base favors Williams. He made up his mind that Williams was not going to succeed Gibbs. He then said when Gibbs left that he sought continuity, and Gibbs appeared to endorse Williams by advocating continuity as well. What Snyder has to gain by souring the fans, players and coaching staff on Gibbs is that it paves the way for the new head coach, and explains the inconsistency in Snyder's statements and in his apparent long-term plan for the team. What better way to explain a change in the plan of succession from Gibbs to Williams than to say that Williams bad-mouthed Gibbs?

Whether it is technically "true" or not is irrelevant to me. I have no doubt, in fact I would expect, that the subject came up in GW interviews of what changes he would make as HC. Any answer he gives (outside of "none") could be seen as a criticism of the previous HC.

Excellent post, Shally, I agree almost word for word. I just don't think Meeks or Schwartz are canidates at this point, if either was going to get the job they would go head and announce it now and the same is true for Fassel.

No, they have to have some sort of understanding with Spags and he will become the new head coach. It explains all the misdirection as well as the lengthiness of the interviewing process. Even in the latest JLC blog Snyder is quoted as saying he won't name a coach until after the Super Bowl. The game is over a week a way, there would be plenty of time to name a coach without stealing the spotlight.

Spags has to be the guy, its the only thing that makes sense. I am extemely excited to see this new coaching tree take flight, if it does indeed become Spags, Zorn, and Blatche, I think we've assembled an excellent staff. Again, if it plays out as such, I think Dan and Vinny deserve quite a bit of credit. Reasonable people can disagree as to the route taken, but that particular end result is very exciting.

Shally, that is the 2nd time in 2 days that I have been very depressed about the Skins, and your reasoned, calm, non-insulting and non-abrasive way of explaining the Snyder/Cerrato methodology has brought me back. Thanks again.

Still, I am very concerned that by hiring coordinators prior to the head coach, the message is that the coordinators answer to the owner as opposed to the head coach. One huge mistake Snyder and Cerrato made in the beginning of their tenure is that they allowed the lines of authority to be blurred (actually, obliterated), resulting in players circumventing the head coach, and coaches and players pursuing their own, competing agendas. If there is one thing that being around Joe Gibbs for 4years should have taught both Danny and Vinny is that the team has to be unified. Perhaps the head coach is already in place, and we just don't know it yet. The press release says otherwise, that they have consulted with several candidates who each speak highly of Zorn and Blatche, but that is not the same as hiring your HC and allowing him to pick his coordinators. To me, that is stupid and could be a sign that we are going back to our old, pre-2.0 ways. I hope not.

[Skins7ny]

Candidates on the radar for HC:

Jim Fassel-Reading the tea leaves, he is the one that probably makes the most sense here (grrr...) But, I don't think he is getting it. I don't think he would be stupid enough to mouth off to the press about how Danny and Vinny are treating him if he held out any hope at all of getting the job. If he was still in the running when he said that, he is a real idiot. And if Danny and Vinny still hire him after that, I will be shocked. Stuff like that counts a lot to them.

Josh McDaniels-I don't think a 31-year old HC meshes with a first-time OC like Jim Zorn. I also don't think that they run similar offenses. More importantly, I don't think Danny entrusts his billion-dollar ship to someone that much younger than him. Also, I think McDaniels was serious about not wanting a HC job yet, after seeing all the problems Mangini has had, and how he has burned his bridges back to the House of Belichick. Also, you can bet that Belichick will be telling McDaniels to steer clear of the train wreck that is Danny and Vinny.

Steve Spagnuolo-makes a lot of sense, but only if he already has agreed to Blache as his coordinator which (1) I don't know why he would have, you would think he would want to run his own defense and (2) couldn't legally have happened, since the Skins have not been able to legally talk to Spagnuolo yet. Guy started in DC and did a great job with a Giants team with a horrible back 7. Runs an agressive style that Danny/Vinny seem to prefer. Ascending coach, but only one year of coordinator experience scares me.

Ron Meeks-wouldn't utterly shock me. Has background with Snyder, Cerrato, and Blache. Coached here once before, but it was during the horror year of 2000. Might fit the idea of having an coach on the rise to guide the team for several years and promote stability into the future (if such thing exists).


Jim Schwartz-also a possibility. I don't know if he works for Snyder after all the bad blood with GW, who is still very tight with Fisher and presumably with Schwartz as well. If he is offered the HC job, I am sure he takes it though. Provides some continuity in the sense of being from the same coaching tree and knows DC well. Possibility with Blache staying, he fits very well.
Others-I cannot think of anyone else off the top of my head who might be under the radar. Ron Rivera might have been a year ago, Russ Grimm should be in contention. Jerry Gray would be an interesting choice as well, he did a good job in Buffalo after GW got fired there, and he and Blache work well together.

[akhhorus]

False. Snyder knows that the players and the majority of the fan base favors Williams. He made up his mind that Williams was not going to succeed Gibbs. He then said when Gibbs left that he sought continuity, and Gibbs appeared to endorse Williams by advocating continuity as well. What Snyder has to gain by souring the fans, players and coaching staff on Gibbs is that it paves the way for the new head coach, and explains the inconsistency in Snyder's statements and in his apparent long-term plan for the team. What better way to explain a change in the plan of succession from Gibbs to Williams than to say that Williams bad-mouthed Gibbs?


Two problems:
1-Both sides came out and said that Williams said no such things in his interviews.
2-It still doesn't make any sense, because to believe it, you have to accept the premise that Snyder isn't willing to make a move that the fans wouldn't like. If that were the case, he would just have hired Williams for a 1 year audition. Its a no lose move for Snyder: if Williams failed, he's gone and the fans won't bitch at all when he hired Cowher for 2009. If Williams succeeded, then Snyder looks smart for hiring him.

Oh, and if Snyder was doing some sort of smear campaign against anyone, it would have been all over ES, Triple X radio, etc(and blatantly obvious). Not just from ESPN. He's not that subtle lol

[shally]

False. Snyder knows that the players and the majority of the fan base favors Williams. He made up his mind that Williams was not going to succeed Gibbs. He then said when Gibbs left that he sought continuity, and Gibbs appeared to endorse Williams by advocating continuity as well. What Snyder has to gain by souring the fans, players and coaching staff on Gibbs is that it paves the way for the new head coach, and explains the inconsistency in Snyder's statements and in his apparent long-term plan for the team. What better way to explain a change in the plan of succession from Gibbs to Williams than to say that Williams bad-mouthed Gibbs?

Whether it is technically "true" or not is irrelevant to me. I have no doubt, in fact I would expect, that the subject came up in GW interviews of what changes he would make as HC. Any answer he gives (outside of "none") could be seen as a criticism of the previous HC.



Shally, that is the 2nd time in 2 days that I have been very depressed about the Skins, and your reasoned, calm, non-insulting and non-abrasive way of explaining the Snyder/Cerrato methodology has brought me back. Thanks again.

Still, I am very concerned that by hiring coordinators prior to the head coach, the message is that the coordinators answer to the owner as opposed to the head coach. One huge mistake Snyder and Cerrato made in the beginning of their tenure is that they allowed the lines of authority to be blurred (actually, obliterated), resulting in players circumventing the head coach, and coaches and players pursuing their own, competing agendas. If there is one thing that being around Joe Gibbs for 4years should have taught both Danny and Vinny is that the team has to be unified. Perhaps the head coach is already in place, and we just don't know it yet. The press release says otherwise, that they have consulted with several candidates who each speak highly of Zorn and Blatche, but that is not the same as hiring your HC and allowing him to pick his coordinators. To me, that is stupid and could be a sign that we are going back to our old, pre-2.0 ways. I hope not.

thanks for your kindness.

we still have to see that snyder does actually end up with someone like spagnuolo or mcdaniel as HC, but it would seem to me to be unconscionable for him to end up with fassel (or worse billick or green) from this point in the process.

the fact that we have experienced hands at OC and DC speaks to the fact that we are going young with a HC. an older guy would likely have his own crew in mind

i also agree that the lines of power and communication need to be clear. and i think they will be, but time is the test

the coordinator before hc is an odd methodology EXCEPT that the (presumably)
best assistants are off limits until after the SB. even in public the skins have said the interview process will go on after the SB. this is necessitated by the nfl rules-- but not for a second do i believe that snyder has not had back channel talks going on with reps of mcdaniel and spagnuolo. there would be no other logical reason i can come up with that explains the way the process has unfolded

i do not feel sorry for GW. he is royally compensated and will continue to be paid by snyder next year anyway (or reach a settlement)

as for AS, all i an say is, good riddance for JC's sake. his glee at getting a chance to run his offense with collins says volumes about how he truly felt about his qb's and would have led to friction at the very least next year. i expect JC to thrive under zorn, who would not be coming here if he didnt have confidence in his ability to take JC to the highest levels.. and again, AS will be well compensated next year one way or the other..

[Skins7ny]

Two problems:
1-Both sides came out and said that Williams said no such things in his interviews.
2-It still doesn't make any sense, because to believe it, you have to accept the premise that Snyder isn't willing to make a move that the fans wouldn't like. If that were the case, he would just have hired Williams for a 1 year audition. Its a no lose move for Snyder: if Williams failed, he's gone and the fans won't bitch at all when he hired Cowher for 2009. If Williams succeeded, then Snyder looks smart for hiring him.

Oh, and if Snyder was doing some sort of smear campaign against anyone, it would have been all over ES, Triple X radio, etc(and blatantly obvious). Not just from ESPN. He's not that subtle lol
I disagree. Leaks and other "subtle" methods have been the stock-in-trade of Danny and Vinny for years. The point is, contrary to what you are arguing, to bad-mouth someone without being obvious about it, so it cannot be literally traced back to you.
The fact that Snyder/Cerrato and GW both denied it is spin control that benefits both of them. Doesn't make it true.
It is hard to take anything that is said here at face value.

thanks for your kindness.

we still have to see that snyder does actually end up with someone like spagnuolo or mcdaniel as HC, but it would seem to me to be unconscionable for him to end up with fassel (or worse billick or green) from this point in the process.

the fact that we have experienced hands at OC and DC speaks to the fact that we are going young with a HC. an older guy would likely have his own crew in mind

i also agree that the lines of power and communication need to be clear. and i think they will be, but time is the test

the coordinator before hc is an odd methodology EXCEPT that the (presumably)
best assistants are off limits until after the SB. even in public the skins have said the interview process will go on after the SB. this is necessitated by the nfl rules-- but not for a second do i believe that snyder has not had back channel talks going on with reps of mcdaniel and spagnuolo. there would be no other logical reason i can come up with that explains the way the process has unfolded

i do not feel sorry for GW. he is royally compensated and will continue to be paid by snyder next year anyway (or reach a settlement)

as for AS, all i an say is, good riddance for JC's sake. his glee at getting a chance to run his offense with collins says volumes about how he truly felt about his qb's and would have led to friction at the very least next year. i expect JC to thrive under zorn, who would not be coming here if he didnt have confidence in his ability to take JC to the highest levels.. and again, AS will be well compensated next year one way or the other..

I make it a rule not to feel sorry career-wise for people who are going to be paid $2.5 million next year not to work. I wish someone would feel sorry for me for the same reason. I have a feeling GW will land on his feet somewhere. I suspect it will be Tennesse (reunited with Fisher) or New York (the Jets are desperate for a quality coordinator, and Giants may soon be as well-I would be scared to see what Williams could do with the front 4 the Giants have).

I don't consider Zorn experienced, at least not as a OC. Just as some coaches are excellent coordinators but not head coaches, so are some excellent position coaches but not coordinators. I know that Zorn is well-trained and smart (supersmart?), and have no reason to doubt he will be a good OC. Still, I don't like the WC offense, and hope that Zorn's version will not make me think I am watching the 49ers in burgundy-and-gold!

[akhhorus]

I disagree. Leaks and other "subtle" methods have been the stock-in-trade of Danny and Vinny for years. The point is, contrary to what you are arguing, to bad-mouth someone without being obvious about it, so it cannot be literally traced back to you.
The fact that Snyder/Cerrato and GW both denied it is spin control that benefits both of them. Doesn't make it true.
It is hard to take anything that is said here at face value.


Thats the thing, Snyderatto are obvious about it when they leak, they're never subtle because I doubt they know how to be. If they were "smearing" Williams as part of a plan to get the fans to stop supporting him as much as they were, it would have been all over the place where the Skins' fans congregate, and it wouldn't have been just 15 hours before they fired him. And thanks for not discussing the rest of what I said.

[skinfanjon]

For the record, PFT is reporting the Jags and Rams both have serious interest in GW. The make the point that the Rams already have Haslett as DC though, so not really sure where they would put him unless they fired Linehan, which seems highly unlikely at this late juncture.

Also, the Rams have expressed interest in Al, I would be curious to see them paired somewhere again next year, but its not likely.

[mexskins]

Oh well, after a few beers, a great golf game and some thinking I think we will be fine with Spags or McDaniels and the new coordinators. (No Fassel please)

[DPHoo]

95% of fans want Gregg Williams to be the coach. Maybe not on this board, but if you go to ES or listen to Redskins Radio, Sports talk 980, etc., it is nearly unanimous for Williams. Snyder knows this.

So to avoid a fan rebellion, why not make up that Williams slammed our beloved coach?

I don't have a huge problem hiring Williams. Yes, I would like for him to get it just for some continuity (preferred offensively more than defensively, but Saunders was gonna get canned no matter what). I'm more concerned with what outside coaches think of our organization. Who in their right mind would want to come here?

So far Synder has dissed the followng:

Brad Johnson (born a Redskin fan) - Signed Jeff George, pushed Johnson to the side even smeared him during contract negotiations. Johnson went on the win the SuperBowl with TB. The #1 mistake of Synder's career.

Darrell Green - Signed Deon Sanders, the move pushed Green to the side for a washed up loud mouth - The 2nd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Marty S. - Marty went 8-8 with Tony Banks as his QB. If Brad Johnson was with Marty we would have went to the playoffs and who knows were we could have gone after that. - 3rd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Greg Williams - coached the best defenses that the Redskins have ever had. 3 out of 4 years the defense was in the top 10.

I wish Synder would have the guts to do what he wants to do and name himself the coach then we can suffer through several 1-15 seasons. After that he can become owner again and hire a GM and be a real owner.

I am thoroughly disgusted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skinfanjon]

So far Synder has dissed the followng:

Brad Johnson (born a Redskin fan) - Signed Jeff George, pushed Johnson to the side even smeared him during contract negotiations. Johnson went on the win the SuperBowl with TB. The #1 mistake of Synder's career.

Darrell Green - Signed Deon Sanders, the move pushed Green to the side for a washed up loud mouth - The 2nd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Marty S. - Marty went 8-8 with Tony Banks as his QB. If Brad Johnson was with Marty we would have went to the playoffs and who knows were we could have gone after that. - 3rd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Greg Williams - coached the best defenses that the Redskins have ever had. 3 out of 4 years the defense was in the top 10.

I wish Synder would have the guts to do what he wants to do and name himself the coach then we can suffer through several 1-15 seasons. After that he can become owner again and hire a GM and be a real owner.

I am thoroughly disgusted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny that there is a 6 year gap between Gregg and the last person he "dissed". Perhaps he learned a thing or two during those years, no?

[DPHoo]

Funny that there is a 6 year gap between Gregg and the last person he "dissed". Perhaps he learned a thing or two during those years, no?

4 of the 6 years were under Gibbs influence (Synder was unable to act stupid). With other 2 years being Spurrier's time which was all Synder's decision - remember that disaster.

To review this latest hiring process you can only walk away unimpressed. I hope Synder finds his guts and names himself coach. He and Jerry Jones are two peas in a pod.

I will not enjoy this latest disaster that we are embarking on.

[akhhorus]

Brad Johnson (born a Redskin fan) - Signed Jeff George, pushed Johnson to the side even smeared him during contract negotiations. Johnson went on the win the SuperBowl with TB. The #1 mistake of Synder's career.

Johnson did win the Super bowl in TB, but that defense was the reason.

Darrell Green - Signed Deon Sanders, the move pushed Green to the side for a washed up loud mouth - The 2nd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

huh? I love Darrell Green, but he wasn't the same player he was after 1997/8ish. Even after Deion left, Green stayed the nickel back with Smoot/Champ as the starters.

Marty S. - Marty went 8-8 with Tony Banks as his QB. If Brad Johnson was with Marty we would have went to the playoffs and who knows were we could have gone after that. - 3rd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Johnson left after we hired Marty. Marty was the GM then, and could have kept him if he wanted to(especially since he could have told Johnson that he was in charge now, and not Snyder).

Greg Williams - coached the best defenses that the Redskins have ever had. 3 out of 4 years the defense was in the top 10.

You can make a case for the 2004 defense being one the better Redskins defenses, but his defenses aren't in the discussion for the best ever. They never created a lot of turnovers and struggled badly with sacks.

[skinfanjon]

4 of the 6 years were under Gibbs influence (Synder was unable to act stupid). With other 2 years being Spurrier's time which was all Synder's decision - remember that disaster.

To review this latest hiring process you can only walk away unimpressed. I hope Synder finds his guts and names himself coach. He and Jerry Jones are two peas in a pod.

I will not enjoy this latest disaster that we are embarking on.

Apparently, you can, because I am quite happy with how things are turning out. I won't exhale completely until Spags is in place as HC, but I'm almost certain that is only a matter of time. Which again, makes me quite happy.

And I think it would be wise to give Snyder some rope, he had to learn something from being around Gibbs for the past four years.

[DPHoo]

Johnson did win the Super bowl in TB, but that defense was the reason.

TB had one of the best D's this year and they could not win one playoff game. Johnson played a big part in TB being successful that year. That season, we played with Jeff George and Tony Banks = both were horrible.



huh? I love Darrell Green, but he wasn't the same player he was after 1997/8ish. Even after Deion left, Green stayed the nickel back with Smoot/Champ as the starters.

Darrell Green was still better than Deion. Smoot did not come aboard until Marty. Basically we wasted a year of Darrrell career watching a disappointing Sanders.



Johnson left after we hired Marty. Marty was the GM then, and could have kept him if he wanted to(especially since he could have told Johnson that he was in charge now, and not Snyder).

Jeff George was brought in before Marty, the contract negotiations with Johnson was complicated by George's signing and they were performed by Synder when the rancer began. Synder disrespected Brad.



You can make a case for the 2004 defense being one the better Redskins defenses, but his defenses aren't in the discussion for the best ever. They never created a lot of turnovers and struggled badly with sacks.

TB had one of the best D's this year and they could not win one playoff game. Johnson played a big part in TB being successful that year. That season, we played with Jeff George and Tony Banks = both were horrible.

Darrell Green was still better than Deion. Smoot did not come aboard until Marty. Basically we wasted a year of Darrrell career watching a disappointing Sanders.

Jeff George was brought in before Marty, the contract negotiations with Johnson was complicated by George's signing and they were performed by Synder when the rancer began. Synder disrespected Brad.

2004's defense was the best we have ever had since Synder has been owner and it ranks up with some of the best all time.

Since Gibbs return, the front office personnel decisions have been improved with some minor opps (BL comes to mind)

Synder has shown himself incapable of running this football operation minus a 4 year stint with HOF Gibbs and he isn't a gentlemen about it.

[Skins7ny]

Thats the thing, Snyderatto are obvious about it when they leak, they're never subtle because I doubt they know how to be. If they were "smearing" Williams as part of a plan to get the fans to stop supporting him as much as they were, it would have been all over the place where the Skins' fans congregate, and it wouldn't have been just 15 hours before they fired him. And thanks for not discussing the rest of what I said.
What you don't seem to grasp is that a leak is, by its very nature and intent, subtle. If they wanted to come right out and say it, they wouldn't leak it. They do an awful lot of their p.r. and positioning by leaking stuff to the press, although less so in the last 4 years with Gibbs in charge of the store. Now that he is gone, they are reverting to their pre-Gibbs 2.0 childish, petulant and classless ways. And you are back to defending them!
So far Synder has dissed the followng:

Brad Johnson (born a Redskin fan) - Signed Jeff George, pushed Johnson to the side even smeared him during contract negotiations. Johnson went on the win the SuperBowl with TB. The #1 mistake of Synder's career.

Darrell Green - Signed Deon Sanders, the move pushed Green to the side for a washed up loud mouth - The 2nd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Marty S. - Marty went 8-8 with Tony Banks as his QB. If Brad Johnson was with Marty we would have went to the playoffs and who knows were we could have gone after that. - 3rd biggest mistake of Synder's career.

Greg Williams - coached the best defenses that the Redskins have ever had. 3 out of 4 years the defense was in the top 10.

I wish Synder would have the guts to do what he wants to do and name himself the coach then we can suffer through several 1-15 seasons. After that he can become owner again and hire a GM and be a real owner.

I am thoroughly disgusted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately, that is just a partial list. I would add Brian Mitchell to that list, he was disrespected more than D. Green was, IMO. Also Norv Turner and MIke Nolan. Whatever you think of the jobs that they did that year, they both were decent individuals who did not deserve the shabby, immature treatment Snyder gave them.

Being a fan of a team, for me at least, involves more than pride in how the team does on the field, although that is a big part of it. How the team conducts itself off the field matters a lot as well. We have built up a lot of goodwill around league circles this year with the way our coaches, players, and yes, our owner conducted themselves, and the image of Dan as a incompetent, immature billionaire bully owner has been largely rehabiltiated. Dan, with Vinny's help, is already slicing through that goodwill and his improved image, and Joe G has barely even left the building. I am waiting to see how everything shakes out, but it seems to me that we are returning to our old ways, which led to failure both on and off the field. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, including how you treat people who are part of the Redskins' "family". I want to be proud to be a Redskins fan, and I want us to go about things the right way. To often under Snyder, we do things the wrong way. We shall see.

4 of the 6 years were under Gibbs influence (Synder was unable to act stupid). With other 2 years being Spurrier's time which was all Synder's decision - remember that disaster.

To review this latest hiring process you can only walk away unimpressed. I hope Synder finds his guts and names himself coach. He and Jerry Jones are two peas in a pod.

I will not enjoy this latest disaster that we are embarking on.

I don't think it was possible to diss Spurrier. No matter what happened around him, he had that goofy look on his face, his golf clubs and his $5M annual salary! He seemed impervious to humiliation.

[akhhorus]

TB had one of the best D's this year and they could not win one playoff game. Johnson played a big part in TB being successful that year. That season, we played with Jeff George and Tony Banks = both were horrible.

Like I said: Marty had a chance as the GM to try to keep Johnson and he didn't. You can blame Snyder for signing George, but Marty made the decision to let him walk without a fight.

Darrell Green was still better than Deion. Smoot did not come aboard until Marty. Basically we wasted a year of Darrrell career watching a disappointing Sanders.

And Smoot was drafted the following season from when we got Deion. And Green was still the NB after a few games.

Jeff George was brought in before Marty, the contract negotiations with Johnson was complicated by George's signing and they were performed by Synder when the rancer began. Synder disrespected Brad.

That may be, but Marty made the decision to let him walk without even tagging him.

2004's defense was the best we have ever had since Synder has been owner and it ranks up with some of the best all time.

Thats your opinion, and they've not come close to repeating that year defensive under Williams.

What you don't seem to grasp is that a leak is, by its very nature and intent, subtle. If they wanted to come right out and say it, they wouldn't leak it.

Thats exactly my point: they're never subtle when they leak. They leak to the same 3-4 people(Snyder/Swanson to the Times, Vinny to Lenny P and Mort, Gibbs to the Post).

They do an awful lot of their p.r. and positioning by leaking stuff to the press, although less so in the last 4 years with Gibbs in charge of the store.

You can believe that, but little changed in their PR stance with Gibbs in charge of the store.

Now that he is gone, they are reverting to their pre-Gibbs 2.0 childish, petulant and classless ways. And you are back to defending them!

Saying that the smear theory doesn't make sense isn't defending them(I think I've been rather clear with my disgust for the handling of this process, but why let facts get in your way again), its pointing out facts.

[DPHoo]

What you don't seem to grasp is that a leak is, by its very nature and intent, subtle. If they wanted to come right out and say it, they wouldn't leak it. They do an awful lot of their p.r. and positioning by leaking stuff to the press, although less so in the last 4 years with Gibbs in charge of the store. Now that he is gone, they are reverting to their pre-Gibbs 2.0 childish, petulant and classless ways. And you are back to defending them!


Unfortunately, that is just a partial list. I would add Brian Mitchell to that list, he was disrespected more than D. Green was, IMO. Also Norv Turner and MIke Nolan. Whatever you think of the jobs that they did that year, they both were decent individuals who did not deserve the shabby, immature treatment Snyder gave them.

Being a fan of a team, for me at least, involves more than pride in how the team does on the field, although that is a big part of it. How the team conducts itself off the field matters a lot as well. We have built up a lot of goodwill around league circles this year with the way our coaches, players, and yes, our owner conducted themselves, and the image of Dan as a incompetent, immature billionaire bully owner has been largely rehabiltiated. Dan, with Vinny's help, is already slicing through that goodwill and his improved image, and Joe G has barely even left the building. I am waiting to see how everything shakes out, but it seems to me that we are returning to our old ways, which led to failure both on and off the field. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things, including how you treat people who are part of the Redskins' "family". I want to be proud to be a Redskins fan, and I want us to go about things the right way. To often under Snyder, we do things the wrong way. We shall see.



I don't think it was possible to diss Spurrier. No matter what happened around him, he had that goofy look on his face, his golf clubs and his $5M annual salary! He seemed impervious to humiliation.

Thanks for reminding me that Synder disrespected B. Mitch and Darrell with the signing of Sanders.

Spurrier did the honorable thing by quitting. That entire stint had Synder wearing egg on his face.

What Gibbs says is true, I believe Synder will spend whatever it takes to win, he is just as incapable as Spurrier was as a NFL coach as Synder tries to be a GM. This front office will never work and that makes me sad because we all suffer as Redskin fans.

[DPHoo]

Like I said: Marty had a chance as the GM to try to keep Johnson and he didn't. You can blame Snyder for signing George, but Marty made the decision to let him walk without a fight.



And Smoot was drafted the following season from when we got Deion. And Green was still the NB after a few games.



That may be, but Marty made the decision to let him walk without even tagging him.



Thats your opinion, and they've not come close to repeating that year defensive under Williams.



Thats exactly my point: they're never subtle when they leak. They leak to the same 3-4 people(Snyder/Swanson to the Times, Vinny to Lenny P and Mort, Gibbs to the Post).



You can believe that, but little changed in their PR stance with Gibbs in charge of the store.



Saying that the smear theory doesn't make sense isn't defending them(I think I've been rather clear with my disgust for the handling of this process, but why let facts get in your way again), its pointing out facts.

There was NO WAY that Johnson was coming back with Synder as owner, Marty could not fix that issue. Johnson has hated our organization since and he wore a Redskins jersey to bed every night when he was a child.

You never sit a team legend who can play for a washed up Sanders for one year which predates Smoot's arrival.

Are you really Dan Synder?

[akhhorus]

There was NO WAY that Johnson was coming back with Synder as owner, Marty could not fix that issue. Johnson has hated our organization since and he wore a Redskins jersey to bed every night when he was a child.

And they could have tagged him, and we would have gotten something back for him. The fact is: it was Marty who let him walk without a fight.

And frankly, I could give a crap who he rooted for growing up.

You never sit a team legend who can play for a washed up Sanders for one year which predates Smoot's arrival.

And when an ENTIRE new staff came in, with total control of the franchise, they played a rookie over him. Green was washed up as a starter long before then.

Are you really Dan Synder?

Right, because anyone who disagrees with your ranting must be an apologist. :rolleyes:

[MONK_in_HOF]

And they could have tagged him, and we would have gotten something back for him. The fact is: it was Marty who let him walk without a fight.
And frankly, I could give a crap who he rooted for growing up.
And when an ENTIRE new staff came in, with total control of the franchise, they played a rookie over him. Green was washed up as a starter long before then.
Right, because anyone who disagrees with your ranting must be an apologist. :rolleyes:

I am curious to what tag you think the Skins could have viably used on Johnson? He certainly wasn't worth the franchise tag (I am not even sure we had the cap space following the 99/2000 spending spree), and I have a hard time believing any team would have given up pick(s) to acquire Johnson knowing George carried a first string QB's cap hit and was Snyder's preference.

The writing was on the wall for the already alienated Johnson and I see very little that Marty could have done to change that situation, especially given the cap situation at the time.

[fent]

I guess you havent been reading posts at Extremeskins.

thankfully, no i haven't...that site is an abomination. but what does that have to do with anything? that group of uninformed fans' postulating is somehow more credible than this group of fans' postulating?

[DPHoo]

[QUOTE=akhhorus;1075954]The fact is: it was Marty who let him walk without a fight.

And frankly, I could give a crap who he rooted for growing up.




I am sure you feel better about your negotiations with Brad if you can blame Marty for his departure.

Not caring about a good QB who grew up a Redskin fan is the attitude that Synder conducts his business with.

You are the Danny.

[akhhorus]

I am sure you feel better about your negotiations with Brad if you can blame Marty for his departure.

I blame who is to blame. Norv/Snyderatto didn't help things by bringing in George as a high priced backup, but Marty was the GM who made the decision to not even try to get something for Brad when he walked, or to make a serious offer to him. Whether you like it or not, Marty is to blame for his own QB situation in 2001 and for not having an effective Qb for several years in DC.

Not caring about a good QB who grew up a Redskin fan is the attitude that Synder conducts his business with.

You're not making any sense. A-because it was Marty's decision to let him walk and B-What the blue hell are you talking about that Snyder's attitude has anything to do with if a player is a redskins' fan or not.

You are the Danny.

And you continue to make no sense.

[akhhorus]

I am curious to what tag you think the Skins could have viably used on Johnson? He certainly wasn't worth the franchise tag (I am not even sure we had the cap space following the 99/2000 spending spree), and I have a hard time believing any team would have given up pick(s) to acquire Johnson knowing George carried a first string QB's cap hit and was Snyder's preference.

Well, the tag back then wasn't 10 million-ish, it was probably closer to 4 or 5. The skins could have easily dumped George to afford it(they had more than enough cash to dump him and his nearly 4 million of cap figure in the middle of the season). And whether or not another team would have given up picks is basically irrelevant. The skins could have kept Johnson for another year, and potentially cleared up the cap room to offer him a long term deal.

The writing was on the wall for the already alienated Johnson and I see very little that Marty could have done to change that situation, especially given the cap situation at the time.

If anything Marty could have been at an advantage because he could easily have gone to Brad and his agent and said: "listen, you have problems with them, fine. I'm not them. I'm running the show now and we need a QB." Marty restructured George to keep him around, he could have easily dumped him(and his salary) and tagged/resigned Johnson.

[mexskins]

thankfully, no i haven't...that site is an abomination. but what does that have to do with anything? that group of uninformed fans' postulating is somehow more credible than this group of fans' postulating?

Sorry, I was refering about the rage on that site. Im not a member of ES. This is the best Redskins site.
I guess I should have elaborated more.
Hail from Mexico !

[Skins7ny]

There was NO WAY that Johnson was coming back with Synder as owner, Marty could not fix that issue. Johnson has hated our organization since and he wore a Redskins jersey to bed every night when he was a child.

You never sit a team legend who can play for a washed up Sanders for one year which predates Smoot's arrival.

Are you really Dan Synder?
I have wondered that many times myself. Or his 10-year old kid. Or Cerrato. LMAO.
And they could have tagged him, and we would have gotten something back for him. The fact is: it was Marty who let him walk without a fight.

And frankly, I could give a crap who he rooted for growing up.

Your revisionism is remarkable. The Skins did not have the cap room to franchise Johnson because of their huge spending spree the year before. They said so at the time.
I blame who is to blame. Norv/Snyderatto didn't help things by bringing in George as a high priced backup, but Marty was the GM who made the decision to not even try to get something for Brad when he walked, or to make a serious offer to him. Whether you like it or not, Marty is to blame for his own QB situation in 2001 and for not having an effective Qb for several years in DC.

You're not making any sense. A-because it was Marty's decision to let him walk and B-What the blue hell are you talking about that Snyder's attitude has anything to do with if a player is a redskins' fan or not. .
Again, your revisionist history is downright dishonest. It was not "Norv/Snyderatto"'s decision to bring Jeff George in. It was Snyderatto's, period. The last thing Norv wanted was to do was to bring in a known locker-room headache to disrupt team chemistry and give Snyder a cause to be a year-long burr in the saddle, the year after they won the division and scored 2 high draft choices. Norv hated Jeff George, which puts him in a not-very exclsuive club that includes everyone who ever worked with George.
A-it was not Marty's decision to let Johnson walk. The front office could not franchise him, so he was free to sign where he wanted. And he made it clear he would not re-sign here because of the way Snyder treated him (signing Jeff George and insisting to Norv that he be replaced despite his 4,000 yards and division win the year before).
B-If your boss at IBM treats you like dogmeat, you are eventually going to harbor bad feelings towards IBM. Elementary law of human nature. Animal nature too.

[akhhorus]

Your revisionism is remarkable. The Skins did not have the cap room to franchise Johnson because of their huge spending spree the year before. They said so at the time.

Horsecrap. They had enough cash to keep George at 3-5 million for 2001, they could have chosen tagging Johnson(who got about 5 million average from tampa) and cut George.

And its hilarious that you believe what they said now.

Again, your revisionist history is downright dishonest. It was not "Norv/Snyderatto"'s decision to bring Jeff George in. It was Snyderatto's, period. The last thing Norv wanted was to do was to bring in a known locker-room headache to disrupt team chemistry and give Snyder a cause to be a year-long burr in the saddle, the year after they won the division and scored 2 high draft choices.

Do you honestly think that Norv even could have conceived on team chemistry or playing the right guys? Do we need to go back over how he handled the Heath Shuler situation? Or pissing off Trent Green before The Danny got there?

Norv hated Jeff George, which puts him in a not-very exclsuive club that includes everyone who ever worked with George.

And yet, Norv played him over Johnson when Johnson struggled in 2000. Yet another fact that undermines your rantings.

A-it was not Marty's decision to let Johnson walk. The front office could not franchise him, so he was free to sign where he wanted. And he made it clear he would not re-sign here because of the way Snyder treated him (signing Jeff George and insisting to Norv that he be replaced despite his 4,000 yards and division win the year before).

Wrong, wrong and irrelevant. Marty was the GM, and made the decision.
The franchise could have tagged him if they wanted to. It would have mean dumping George and maybe a player like Marco Coleman, but they could have done it--and they could have offered him similar to the 28 million he got from Tampa. Whether or not he wanted to stay is irrelevant if Marty wanted to at least try to keep him for a year to convince him he was different than Snyderatto.

B-If your boss at IBM treats you like dogmeat, you are eventually going to harbor bad feelings towards IBM. Elementary law of human nature. Animal nature too.

And if a new boss comes in who didn't treat you like crap who has more say than the previous boss, its not human nature to say "Screw this guy, I'm out of here".

[smoak]

Your revisionism is remarkable. The Skins did not have the cap room to franchise Johnson because of their huge spending spree the year before. They said so at the time.

Again, your revisionist history is downright dishonest. It was not "Norv/Snyderatto"'s decision to bring Jeff George in. It was Snyderatto's, period. The last thing Norv wanted was to do was to bring in a known locker-room headache to disrupt team chemistry and give Snyder a cause to be a year-long burr in the saddle, the year after they won the division and scored 2 high draft choices. Norv hated Jeff George, which puts him in a not-very exclsuive club that includes everyone who ever worked with George.
A-it was not Marty's decision to let Johnson walk. The front office could not franchise him, so he was free to sign where he wanted. And he made it clear he would not re-sign here because of the way Snyder treated him (signing Jeff George and insisting to Norv that he be replaced despite his 4,000 yards and division win the year before).
B-If your boss at IBM treats you like dogmeat, you are eventually going to harbor bad feelings towards IBM. Elementary law of human nature. Animal nature too.

I'm with you on this one. Brad hated the Redskins (his favorite team as a kid) once Snyder cam into the picture. So did Champ Bailey who we villified, but looking back who can really blame him for wanting out of this MESS. Norv Turner. Gregg Williams. Mike Nolan. Al Saunders... Maybe these guys were not getting it done, but you do not treat people the way Snyder has and expect it not to get around the league that you are an ass. Nobody comes here unless they are looking for a pay day and that is why nobody comes here unless they looking to hit the Snyder lottery...

Marty was dealing with a cap issue and trying to get all the dead wood off the roster. Had he stayed, we would have eventually gotten another QB and Banks would have been backup or released. It was Snyder that thrust George on him and I blame Marty for thinking it would work, but you can't judge a team in year 1 of a roster purge.... Actually, you can judge to an extent, and from where I sat in the stands, it looked like Marty did a good job overall. I know people hated the offense, but Cerrato was fired and Danny had no real influence until he basically forced MS out.

And that entire spending spree in 2000 was Dan Snyder. How can you pin that on Turner when Turner never did anything close to that degree of free agent signing in his seven years here until 2000... It was Dan the man screwing the Skins again.

[Syllable]

I'm with you on this one. Brad hated the Redskins (his favorite team as a kid) once Snyder cam into the picture. So did Champ Bailey who we villified, but looking back who can really blame him for wanting out of this MESS. Norv Turner. Gregg Williams. Mike Nolan. Al Saunders... Maybe these guys were not getting it done, but you do not treat people the way Snyder has and expect it not to get around the league that you are an ass. Nobody comes here unless they are looking for a pay day and that is why nobody comes here unless they looking to hit the Snyder lottery...

Marty was dealing with a cap issue and trying to get all the dead wood off the roster. Had he stayed, we would have eventually gotten another QB and Banks would have been backup or released. It was Snyder that thrust George on him and I blame Marty for thinking it would work, but you can't judge a team in year 1 of a roster purge.... Actually, you can judge to an extent, and from where I sat in the stands, it looked like Marty did a good job overall. I know people hated the offense, but Cerrato was fired and Danny had no real influence until he basically forced MS out.

And that entire spending spree in 2000 was Dan Snyder. How can you pin that on Turner when Turner never did anything close to that degree of free agent signing in his seven years here until 2000... It was Dan the man screwing the Skins again.
My thinking as well.