Clinton Portis:WCO Probowl?

[Sean36]

Everyone is talking about how Jason Campbell will be great in this new offense. However, Clinton Portis ran like a wild man in Denver who ran the WCO, so I thought " wait ah minute Clinton might be a monster again". Just remember when you had arguments about who was the better back when Clinton was in Denver an LT was second best.:readme:

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

IMO Portis success in Denver was due a lot more to zone blocking (or cheat blocking if you like), than to any other thing.

[ChapelHillMatt]

Is it possible Clinton is underated? I mean he's a monster now, has to be one of the most underappreciated players in this league.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Is it possible Clinton is underated? I mean he's a monster now, has to be one of the most underappreciated players in this league.
A monster right now? Are you being serious?

[Hr fan]

IMO Portis success in Denver was due a lot more to zone blocking (or cheat blocking if you like), than to any other thing.

Agree. Smaller more athletic linemen. Buges is retained, so that approach is out.

[joethefan]

I would hae loved to have had clinton before the big contract and see if his effort and attitude were different. many players ply more with a chip on thier shoulder when they are coming up the mountain....ala grant and barber

[smoak]

I would hae loved to have had clinton before the big contract and see if his effort and attitude were different. many players ply more with a chip on thier shoulder when they are coming up the mountain....ala grant and barber

It really wasn't different IMO. I remember his antics in Denver and I think this is an absolute case of a player with a butt load of physical ability who doesn't understand the game or even his position. Now that injuries and carries have eroded his God-given ability, Clinton can't maximize his talent b/c he isn't a cerebral player. Unlike some players (Tomlinson is one) who study tape for hours on end, I think Clinton shows up, puts in his time, and then gets away from football. I might be wrong, but my perception is that CP doesn't put in the extra time and while I think Denver's line certainly helped CP, I think Shanny pulled the wool over our eyes on this trade. He saw the iceberg dead in the water and jumped ship. Kudos.

But I'll never understand the blind allegiance to a player that is so inconsistent. One minute he is the best back in the league and the next he fumbles twice on his way to 37 yards rushing. But I'm sure that is Gibbs' fault.... :rolleyes:

I appreciate how hard Clinton plays on the field (I really do), but he needs to put that same effort in off the field b/c the result do not lie.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I would hae loved to have had clinton before the big contract and see if his effort and attitude were different. many players ply more with a chip on thier shoulder when they are coming up the mountain....ala grant and barber

I certainly think this tends to be one of the pitfalls of high priced FAs and signing players to their first major contract. I think once a person is financially set for life it is really hard to maintain the same drive and motivation prior to striking it rich and reaching financial security. In sports you just have to hope once you hand out that big contract the person is more motivated by winning than cash.

[culpeper]

i for one dont agree with the statement that CP is an underachiever. the ONLY reason people feel that way is because of his paycheck (which we should throw out the window bcause the dan overpays for everything). with 3/5 of the starting OL for most of the season he finished 6th in the league in rushing and 3rd in total yards from scrimmage. i know hes had some bad games, but overall there has not been ONE player who has a bigger impact for the redskins the past 4 years. i agree he is a different player than he was in denver, but he has gone from a homerun hitter period, to a .300 ba with 30+ dingers and gold glove consideration (sorry for the baseball reference).

one change in particular that i noticed at the end of the season, CP was working overtime ofter practice at his pass catching ability. what used to be an awkward alligator chomp turned into a fluid effective RB out of the backfield. he caught 47 passes this year at 8.3 YPC. that happens to be the exact same # of catches that he had the previous 2 seasons.

and has anyone else noticed how he has to fit through 8 inch wide holes and number of times this postseason ive seen 10ft wide GAPS at times for other teams? the OL wasnt even close to what they were towards the end of 06 with betts running the ball. have we ever seen those type of holes open for CP?

jason campbell in the WCO IMO is a poor fit. i am a big fan of jasons, but unless he extremely shortens that windup, the WCO does not play to his strengths. if he can however, his size and mobility could make him a top ten QB in this league.

[redskin_rich]

Clinton will be gone by the time we get all the personnel in place and we are running the WCO efficiently-- 3 years from now. That is, if Snyder doesn't get impatient and fire everybody beforehand.

[Brit'Skin]

With a healthy OL I still think he can do some great things on this team and he is usually the driving force behind how well or badly the offence goes.

He proved last year he was over the injury troubles and he can definitely carry the load. He had to fight for every yard last year due to the OL troubles and for a guy who works best in space he did a great job.
The only thing I worry about is the fumbles.

[dj_stouty]

One of the benefits of the WCO is that the short-to-medium passing game spreads out the defense horizontally and opens up running lanes for the RB. The Redskins' starting RB may run the ball 18 times a game, opposed to the grinding 25 or more in the past under Gibbs. However, with bigger running lanes and a defense on their heels for the quick pass, its safe to assume Clinton's average per carry would go up. In the end, I'm guessing he puts up similar numbers to his previous years with the Skins. Around 1350 or so...

Who knows...maybe less carries would be a good thing for the guy who led the NFL in carries in '07.

Clinton will be gone by the time we get all the personnel in place and we are running the WCO efficiently-- 3 years from now. That is, if Snyder doesn't get impatient and fire everybody beforehand.


As much as I love Clinton, I never expected him to be here too much longer, regardless of the sytem or the coach. He will hit 30 in 3 years, and running backs historically hit a wall at that age; especially ones who started off their careers with so many touches.

[redwolf1218]

Is it possible Clinton is underated? I mean he's a monster now, has to be one of the most underappreciated players in this league.

i agree. he finished 6th in the nfl, 3rd in the nfc, despite all the obstacles against him this season.

[ObiWan1278]

In my opinion the back that ran hardest in a redskins uniform that I saw this season did so in the pre-season and is on the practice squad. It was quite a feat for him to make the practice squad with the backs we had here being solidified. I think he is going to be a good back when he gets the opportunity one day. I hope it is here.

[nicefellow31]

It really wasn't different IMO. I remember his antics in Denver and I think this is an absolute case of a player with a butt load of physical ability who doesn't understand the game or even his position. Now that injuries and carries have eroded his God-given ability, Clinton can't maximize his talent b/c he isn't a cerebral player. Unlike some players (Tomlinson is one) who study tape for hours on end, I think Clinton shows up, puts in his time, and then gets away from football. I might be wrong, but my perception is that CP doesn't put in the extra time and while I think Denver's line certainly helped CP, I think Shanny pulled the wool over our eyes on this trade. He saw the iceberg dead in the water and jumped ship. Kudos.

But I'll never understand the blind allegiance to a player that is so inconsistent. One minute he is the best back in the league and the next he fumbles twice on his way to 37 yards rushing. But I'm sure that is Gibbs' fault.... :rolleyes:

I appreciate how hard Clinton plays on the field (I really do), but he needs to put that same effort in off the field b/c the result do not lie.

Clinton led the league in rushing attempts, finished 6th in rushing yardage, 12th in yds per game, 4th in rushing touchdowns, all while playing behind a makeshift line. Also one of the best pass blockers in the league. That looks like pretty good numbers to me so I don't think there is a blind allegiance.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Going back to the original point of the thread. I think we will see more zone blocking schemes in the offense. We certainly will see less pulling lineman.

[bergiemoore]

Clinton led the league in rushing attempts, finished 6th in rushing yardage, 12th in yds per game, 4th in rushing touchdowns, all while playing behind a makeshift line. Also one of the best pass blockers in the league. That looks like pretty good numbers to me so I don't think there is a blind allegiance.

I think what disturbs some people is the off games that Clinton has had. Personally, I like the guy, and believe he can continue to be a major contributor for at least the next 3 years. He played well this year, and showed signs of improvement, especially as a receiver out of the back-field. That, in my mind, proves that he's not just relying on his natural ability, but is continuing to refine his game.

[bergiemoore]

Going back to the original point of the thread. I think we will see more zone blocking schemes in the offense. We certainly will see less pulling lineman.

So long as the Skins don't implement the kind of cut blocking that the Alex Gibbs teaches, I'm cool with that.

[Canuck]

It really wasn't different IMO. I remember his antics in Denver and I think this is an absolute case of a player with a butt load of physical ability who doesn't understand the game or even his position. Now that injuries and carries have eroded his God-given ability, Clinton can't maximize his talent b/c he isn't a cerebral player. Unlike some players (Tomlinson is one) who study tape for hours on end, I think Clinton shows up, puts in his time, and then gets away from football. I might be wrong, but my perception is that CP doesn't put in the extra time and while I think Denver's line certainly helped CP, I think Shanny pulled the wool over our eyes on this trade. He saw the iceberg dead in the water and jumped ship. Kudos.

But I'll never understand the blind allegiance to a player that is so inconsistent. One minute he is the best back in the league and the next he fumbles twice on his way to 37 yards rushing. But I'm sure that is Gibbs' fault.... :rolleyes:

I appreciate how hard Clinton plays on the field (I really do), but he needs to put that same effort in off the field b/c the result do not lie.

If Clinton isn't a cerebral player then why is he so effective at blitz pick-up? If it's a third & long I'd personally rather have Portis staying in and blocking than Tomlinson.

[LuvSkins17]

I think CP will do fine with the changes. I don't feel as though we are going to have a "true" WCO based on how we are currently built. The Seahawks did good with the run in prior years and I know the CP would have done wonders behind that line and running those plays. The line is more suited for the power running game but with so many changes and needs for depth, I wouldn't be suprised if different changes are made to help the transition along. We wouldn't be able to run a traditional WCO with the team we have now but this is Zorns first time being a OC and I know he wants to tweek some of the things that they did in Seattle and then try to ensure that Jason is safe for years to come.

CP will be fine, as long as he is here. This would be less wear and tear on him too...

[dj_stouty]

In my opinion the back that ran hardest in a redskins uniform that I saw this season did so in the pre-season and is on the practice squad. It was quite a feat for him to make the practice squad with the backs we had here being solidified. I think he is going to be a good back when he gets the opportunity one day. I hope it is here.

Looking good against 3rd stringers in the preseason is one thing. Looking good against Dallas and Giants starters in late December is another.

[OCSkinzFan]

I agree with luvskins17.

Right now, we don't have the right guys for zone blocking at all. We are a man blocking team period. We also don't have the WRs to run a spread WCO. Additionally, I don't see Campbell as a WCO QB.

But I there's a long time between now and next year personnel wise; so I guess we'll have to just wait and see.

[Meatsnack]

We can and have run zone blocking schemes in the last four seasons. Many times in the last two as our base scheme against a specific opponent.

Dockery, at 6'5" and 320#, was very adept, after three damned years of coaching, at getting his pad level down and zone blocking. He couldn't pull worth crap but that is what Randy was for. If - and this is a big if - Randy comes back healthy and his old self, we are a good, young guard away from having a killer line again. Kendall's knees and Fabini's lack of ability really limited our run game last year. Neither can pull. Rabach does his best but can't make up for the limitations on both sides of him.

Jansen, when healthy, is a better run blocker than Heyer.

At this point, I am hoping we trade down into the 4th or get a 2nd third rounder and get at least two young linemen. These old geezers we have as depth just can't hack an extended period of starting.

[GibbsFan]

CP has had some bad games, but if you check the tape you will see approx 1/3 of his fumbles were on the QB. From Brunell stumbling and bumbling to bad exchanges with JC we have not had exactly smooth backfield every snap the last 4 years.

CP is a warrior, the best back in pass protection in the league, and improving as a receiver. IMO with Taylor gone he is now the best player on the team.

Injuries have hampered him through the last 2 seasons, but I don't think he is guy who dogs it on any snap. Yes, he could use some time in the film room. The big difference between the line here and Denver is that the holes opened so much quicker out west than they do here. Then again we have whole games where the holes have not even opened so it is hard for me to knock the guy.

He should fit well in our new version of WCO, but I too agree that the rest of the personnel on hand don't exactly fit the system. Pro bowl? I doubt it, he will probably be done before we can get the pieces in place.

[ChapelHillMatt]

A monster right now? Are you being serious?

Yes, people love to bash him and I don't get it. He's the complete back, he runs hard, he blocks like no running back I have ever seen, and he still can make moves in the open field to get you yards. He's not a one dimensional back, not even close. He does it all....he's done it here in Washington without a great offensive line as well, the one good line we had he was hurt and couldn't run behind it. Imagine what he could have done if he would have been healthy in 2006? He probably would have ran for 1700 yards, he's that good.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Yes, people love to bash him and I don't get it. He's the complete back, he runs hard, he blocks like no running back I have ever seen, and he still can make moves in the open field to get you yards. He's not a one dimensional back, not even close. He does it all....he's done it here in Washington without a great offensive line as well, the one good line we had he was hurt and couldn't run behind it. Imagine what he could have done if he would have been healthy in 2006? He probably would have ran for 1700 yards, he's that good.

He is very talented, but you have to admit he is too inconsistent. He has shown the ability to turn in on and be one of the best in the league, but not the ability to keep it on for 16 games. He is paid and expected to perform like the best player on our team all the time.

This is the same criticism of Moss. Our "superstars" are not there for all 16 games, and it has cost us in 2005 and 2007.

[ChapelHillMatt]

He is very talented, but you have to admit he is too inconsistent. He has shown the ability to turn in on and be one of the best in the league, but not the ability to keep it on for 16 games. He is paid and expected to perform like the best player on our team all the time.

This is the same criticism of Moss. Our "superstars" are not there for all 16 games, and it has cost us in 2005 and 2007.

He can't do much without an offensive line, you know that as well as I do.

The fumbles you can bring up but they don't bother me as much because most of the time fumbles come when a back is fighting for extra yards. I want a back with that kind of fight.

I like Moss as well, don't think he is a #1 WR and he did have a bad year but I think he's a very good player. It's not his fault we don't have a #1 WR, he can't be someone he's not, he has to be Santana Moss.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

He can't do much without an offensive line, you know that as well as I do.

The fumbles you can bring up but they don't bother me as much because most of the time fumbles come when a back is fighting for extra yards. I want a back with that kind of fight.

I like Moss as well, don't think he is a #1 WR and he did have a bad year but I think he's a very good player. It's not his fault we don't have a #1 WR, he can't be someone he's not, he has to be Santana Moss.

A back of Portis' caliber and salary should transcend the line problems, not every game, but sometimes. He is streaky. He gets on a tear or gets motivated, and there is no stopping him. But other times, he gives up on plays. I like Portis. You're not going to find many negative posts about Portis from me. But I do think he needs to come to week one in better shape next year, because we can't afford slumps anymore, and he needs to be motivated every game.

When we traded for Moss, we did so with the intention of him being a #1 receiver. He was replacing a receiver who caught 90 balls as our #1 receiver. A lot of Moss' drops were mental lapses. That is lack of focus. If he is again the #1 receiver (I hope not), he needs to be more consistent.

[greatest2]

to the thread, put simply cp is a probowler already, he got snubbed and i think everybody who knows anything about football knows that.

Will he better in this offense then in the past, i think he might be. A more balance attack means more room for cp. With the 3 step drop backs he could be more of a passing threat then blocking (which he does great) all the time.

As for the line. They are a power team, besides rabach and thomas. Those guys are also athletic and casey does a good job of getting to the second level and staying on backers. So i expect them to run more straight kinda stuff, like strech left and right then they did this season (tho they ran it alot to the left this season) and i also expect alot more interior movement. like thomas pulls behind kendall, etc. like trap blockings with sellers. those kind of quick hitters can be dangerous with portis.

[greatest2]

A back of Portis' caliber and salary should transcend the line problems, not every game, but sometimes. He is streaky. He gets on a tear or gets motivated, and there is no stopping him. But other times, he gives up on plays. I like Portis. You're not going to find many negative posts about Portis from me. But I do think he needs to come to week one in better shape next year, because we can't afford slumps anymore, and he needs to be motivated every game.

When we traded for Moss, we did so with the intention of him being a #1 receiver. He was replacing a receiver who caught 90 balls as our #1 receiver. A lot of Moss' drops were mental lapses. That is lack of focus. If he is again the #1 receiver (I hope not), he needs to be more consistent.

only knock on portis from me is his motivation sometimes. not during the game, he is a gamer and i don't question that. but at practice and TC, he needs to understand you need a little work there to be even better in the game. So again, i don't discredit his desire during the game or motivation, i think he needs to understand practice is important.

and moss, i agree. i have never seen him play as poorly as this year. alot of drops, and i remember reading somewhere he was dealing with alot of personal things wearing on him in the begin of the season, but thats no excuse, he did great at the end and we all know what happen then. I think the only thing stopping moss is his health. he has hamstring and groin problems every year, if he can keep those relatively minor and off his mind, i don't think we see drops, and i think he has his quickness back to go with that top end speed.

[ChapelHillMatt]

When we traded for Moss, we did so with the intention of him being a #1 receiver. He was replacing a receiver who caught 90 balls as our #1 receiver. A lot of Moss' drops were mental lapses. That is lack of focus. If he is again the #1 receiver (I hope not), he needs to be more consistent.

Well he's smallish for a WR and not the strongest player in the world, there is nothing he can do to change that. He has limitations as a WR, I'll agree he needs to be more reliable when catching the ball but I wonder how much that injury affected him. When healthy he was the Moss of old. He played well over the last 4 weeks of the season.

But he had a bad year and I won't dispute that, I think getting rid of him though like some posters have suggested would be a mistake. He's a very good player when healthy. If we can just find that big target for Jason our offense could be pretty good.

[Charlz]

Right now, we don't have the right guys for zone blocking at all. We are a man blocking team period.

Spot on, this is what got Pettibon in trouble when he took over for Gibbs in '92. Bone decided to implement the WCO but they didn't have the sufficient personell to do so after years of aquiring Hog-like players for smash-mouth NFC East football.

[culpeper]

Spot on, this is what got Pettibon in trouble when he took over for Gibbs in '92. Bone decided to implement the WCO but they didn't have the sufficient personell to do so after years of aquiring Hog-like players for smash-mouth NFC East football.

"those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"

[bergiemoore]

"those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"

Didn't Norv run the WCO here as well?

[redskin_rich]

Didn't Norv run the WCO here as well?

No, Norv learned under Zampese, who learned under Coryell, etc, etc. Same tree as Gibbs and Saunders.

Dowhower was the OC that tried to fuse Gibbs system with the WCO under Petitbone and failed miserably. Marty also brought in a WCO for his one year here. Those are the only two times that system has been used here.

[SkinsGuru]

Since we are going to be running some version of the WCO, does Anthony Mix have better or worse chance of sticking with the team??? I think he may fit the bill pretty good at 6 ' 5" and strong . . . just thought the WCO may make him more important to the Skins . . .

[bergiemoore]

No, Norv learned under Zampese, who learned under Coryell, etc, etc. Same tree as Gibbs and Saunders.

Dowhower was the OC that tried to fuse Gibbs system with the WCO under Petitbone and failed miserably. Marty also brought in a WCO for his one year here. Those are the only two times that system has been used here.

Didn't Coryell adapt his system from Gillman who also tutored Walsh?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Since we are going to be running some version of the WCO, does Anthony Mix have better or worse chance of sticking with the team??? I think he may fit the bill pretty good at 6 ' 5" and strong . . . just thought the WCO may make him more important to the Skins . . .

I have been thinking about that as well for the last few days. He could emerge as an important part of our team.

[redskin_rich]

Didn't Coryell adapt his system from Gillman who also tutored Walsh?

Yes but Walsh changed the philosophy for the passing game, while designing his version of the WCO when he worked under Paul Brown.

[bergiemoore]

Yes but Walsh changed the philosophy for the passing game, while designing his version of the WCO when he worked under Paul Brown.

Here's an interesting article....

http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html

[redskin_rich]

Here's an interesting article....

http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/history.html
I've read that before. Obviously, good coaches adapt their system to the strengths of their personnel and that is why systems change from coach to coach but there are distinctly different philosophies from Gillman's original WCO and Bill Walsh's better known WCO.

[bergiemoore]

I've read that before. Obviously, good coaches adapt their system to the strengths of their personnel and that is why systems change from coach to coach but there distinctly differentare philosophies from Gillman's original WCO and Bill Walsh's better known WCO.

In your opinion, what are the major differences in the philosophies?

Was Norv a WCO guy?

I'm aware that Walsh's version focuses more on the short passing game with three step drops, while Coryell's passing attack was more vertical. No team runs a pure version of either of these offenses, anymore, anyway. It seems to me that the only qualification for the WCO label these days is the focus on the pass to set up the run, and timing routes.

Hopefully, Snyderrato hires one of these "good coaches" that "adapt their system to the strengths of their personnel".

The only thing that bothers me about bringing in Zorn and a HC who is also an adherent to Walsh's WCO, is the change in terminology. The major divergence in the Coryell system and Walsh's system is the language.

[shally]

No, Norv learned under Zampese, who learned under Coryell, etc, etc. Same tree as Gibbs and Saunders.

Dowhower was the OC that tried to fuse Gibbs system with the WCO under Petitbone and failed miserably. Marty also brought in a WCO for his one year here. Those are the only two times that system has been used here.

talk about shooting yourself int he foot..

one of the prime necessities for a WC offense is a multi talented FB. marty had one of the best in the nfl already on his roster (larry centers) and cut him..

if there is one thing i would look forward to under mooch it would be the renewed use of the FB in the passing game. sellers simply isnt quick or elusive enough to be that guy, so i would expect a draft pick or free agent pickup in that direction. betts isnt that guy either, even if he puts on 10 more pounds. why ? the WC fb has to block well in addition to being a receiver, and that has always been betts' weakest skill

[redskin_rich]

In your opinion, what are the major differences in the philosophies?

Was Norv a WCO guy?

I'm aware that Walsh's version focuses more on the short passing game with three step drops, while Coryell's passing attack was more vertical. No team runs a pure version of either of these offenses, anymore, anyway. It seems to me that the only qualification for the WCO label these days is the focus on the pass to set up the run, and timing routes.

Hopefully, Snyderrato hires one of these "good coaches" that "adapt their system to the strengths of their personnel".

The only thing that bothers me about bringing in Zorn and a HC who is also an adherent to Walsh's WCO, is the change in terminology. The major divergence in the Coryell system and Walsh's system is the language.Yes, the vertical passing vs the horizontal passing and the terminology are two of the biggest differences. Also the running plays, line play and TE's and FB all play differently. The two systems are about as different as you can find. Right now, the only starting personnel on offense that I think will adjust easily are Samuels, Rabach, Thomas, Cooley (who should actually excel) and probably Portis. Sellers to a lesser degree, as he only average at best as a receiver. We need a total overhaul at WR. I don't even know how ARE will fit into this system.

Edit- Norv was not a WCO guy. His system was closer to Gibbs and Saunders than anything else.

[shally]

In your opinion, what are the major differences in the philosophies?

Was Norv a WCO guy?

I'm aware that Walsh's version focuses more on the short passing game with three step drops, while Coryell's passing attack was more vertical. No team runs a pure version of either of these offenses, anymore, anyway. It seems to me that the only qualification for the WCO label these days is the focus on the pass to set up the run, and timing routes.

Hopefully, Snyderrato hires one of these "good coaches" that "adapt their system to the strengths of their personnel".

The only thing that bothers me about bringing in Zorn and a HC who is also an adherent to Walsh's WCO, is the change in terminology. The major divergence in the Coryell system and Walsh's system is the language.

and THAT is what is going to challenge JC more than anything.. terminology

[Meatsnack]

talk about shooting yourself int he foot..

one of the prime necessities for a WC offense is a multi talented FB. marty had one of the best in the nfl already on his roster (larry centers) and cut him..

if there is one thing i would look forward to under mooch it would be the renewed use of the FB in the passing game. sellers simply isnt quick or elusive enough to be that guy, so i would expect a draft pick or free agent pickup in that direction. betts isnt that guy either, even if he puts on 10 more pounds. why ? the WC fb has to block well in addition to being a receiver, and that has always been betts' weakest skill

Funny you should say. I've been thinking since we hired Zorn that we would come away from this draft with Jacob Hester out of LSU. He's the sort of all-purpose, heady player that would do wonders from that position.

[Battle Cat]

He is very talented, but you have to admit he is too inconsistent. He has shown the ability to turn in on and be one of the best in the league, but not the ability to keep it on for 16 games. He is paid and expected to perform like the best player on our team all the time.

This is the same criticism of Moss. Our "superstars" are not there for all 16 games, and it has cost us in 2005 and 2007.
The Redskins offense has been inconsistent for the last 5-7 years. You can blame or put that on the running backs wide receivers qb's whoever. The running game has been inconsistent but not nearly as much as the passing game. I think Portis has to take responsibility in part for the offense not being consistent but you can say that about nearly every player on the offensive side of the ball since maybe Turner and Brad Johnson. If you dont beleive me name the last Redskins Pro Bowl quarterback or wide receiver since (Moss) and see if you are in the 21st century go ahead I'll wait. I'll even let you throw in the last Pro Bowl runnning back (Stephen Davis in like the 90's). This offense has stunk basicly since 1999 basicly 8 years or so.

[Charlz]

..if there is one thing i would look forward to under mooch it would be the renewed use of the FB in the passing game...

Great point, the cornerstone of the WCO in SF was the use of the FB as a check down as CP was being used later in the '07 season. Gibbs even said something to the effect, "CP will coach you up on using him in passing situations, it gives him the space to break open".

I think back to the great 49er FBs; Bill Ring, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman and William Floyd. They plugged new FBs into the offense throughout the 80's & 90s.

[Battle Cat]

Great point, the cornerstone of the WCO in SF was the use of the FB as a check down as CP was being used later in the '07 season. Gibbs even said something to the effect, "CP will coach you up on using him in passing situations, it gives him the space to break open".

I think back to the great 49er FBs; Bill Ring, Roger Craig, Tom Rathman and William Floyd. They plugged new FBs into the offense throughout the 80's & 90s.
ROger Craig and Ricky Watters were good pass catchers as well from the running back position. I think Roger Craig was the first 1000 yards rushing and 1000 yards receiving or he was very close to it.

[shally]

Funny you should say. I've been thinking since we hired Zorn that we would come away from this draft with Jacob Hester out of LSU. He's the sort of all-purpose, heady player that would do wonders from that position.

bet on someone like that.. might not be a draft pick, but you need both the fb and rb as multi skill players for a true WC offense. walsh proved you could have a player like linville elliot and still make it work. the guys dont have to be dominant runners, but they both have to block, run and catch at a solid or better level.
portis would be a tremendous fit, but we clearly do not have the right fb on the roster as of yet..

[redskin_rich]

The Redskins offense has been inconsistent for the last 5-7 years. You can blame or put that on the running backs wide receivers qb's whoever. The running game has been inconsistent but not nearly as much as the passing game. I think Portis has to take responsibility in part for the offense not being consistent but you can say that about nearly every player on the offensive side of the ball since maybe Turner and Brad Johnson. If you dont beleive me name the last Redskins Pro Bowl quarterback or wide receiver since (Moss) and see if you are in the 21st century go ahead I'll wait. I'll even let you throw in the last Pro Bowl runnning back (Stephen Davis in like the 90's). This offense has stunk basicly since 1999 basicly 8 years or so.
We haven't had the same starting QB here for more than 2 years since Gus Frerotte.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

The Redskins offense has been inconsistent for the last 5-7 years. You can blame or put that on the running backs wide receivers qb's whoever. The running game has been inconsistent but not nearly as much as the passing game. I think Portis has to take responsibility in part for the offense not being consistent but you can say that about nearly every player on the offensive side of the ball since maybe Turner and Brad Johnson. If you dont beleive me name the last Redskins Pro Bowl quarterback or wide receiver since (Moss) and see if you are in the 21st century go ahead I'll wait. I'll even let you throw in the last Pro Bowl runnning back (Stephen Davis in like the 90's). This offense has stunk basicly since 1999 basicly 8 years or so.

I agree, and since Portis is the leader of our inconisistent offense, we can't call him a monster, superstar or any of the other words used to describe him in this thread.

I'm really not bashing Portis, but the bottom line is, our offense is not where it should be, and Portis bears some responsibility for that.

[HAWGZHEAD]

No holes no runs no probowl. The offensive line has stay healthy and improve.

If this new offense means Portis catching the ball out of the backfield even more I am on board.

[Battle Cat]

Running backs can be leaders. And can lead vocally or by example but the quarterback is always the leader of the offense. I don't care if it is Dilfer in Baltimore when they had no offense or Hassleback in Seattle or Green in Kansas City when these teams were setting team rushing records the quarterback is always the leader of the offense and until you get that position worked out you are going to be inconsistent no matter what you do any where else. I am not saying that the quarterback has to be all world for a team to be good or consistent on offense but he at least has to be comfortable in the system and give confidence to his teammates that he can lead them where they need to go. So until we as Redskins get that worked out we are going to be up and down and inconsistent and if we get upper half of the leauge quarterback play watch how all these other problems (Portis and Moss and Cooley and any other secondary problems that are not the primary cause of our inconsistency magically work themselves out (ie. Collins in the last 4-5 games of the season); (ie. David Patten playing well with Tom Brady coming here doing absolutely nothing and then going to play with Drew Breez for the Saints and back to a productive player.) (ie. Brandon Jacobs really can't carry tiki Barber's jock but when Eli started playing well then the offense took off and look where they are.)

[bergiemoore]

and THAT is what is going to challenge JC more than anything.. terminology

Didn't Campbell already spend a year in a WCO his senior year of college, and if so, how much of a learning curve will there be for him adjusting to this?

[mossme89]

portis is great

[dj_stouty]

portis is great

Do you have some substance to share with us other than 3 word posts?

If not, please go somewhere else.

This is the third thread with this type of response.

[Battle Cat]

Didn't Campbell already spend a year in a WCO his senior year of college, and if so, how much of a learning curve will there be for him adjusting to this?
I am not an offensive co-ordinator but his last year they brought in a WCO offensive co-ordinator. But in my opinion he saw he had a good team and that he had Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams and instead of being selfish and trying to force everything to his system in year one he more taylored his offense to the strength of the players he had. So imo it was not what I would consider a true WCO. It was very run dominated and used a lot of play action pass with several deep passes. But in part it did have some WCO parts with some crossing patterns and some but not much throwing to Ronnie Brown out of the backfield but hardly ever when Cadillac was in. I think to switch to a Seattle style or Tampa Bay style of offense would take some doing. Plus he has learned 2 different offenses (Gibbs/Saunders) between now and then. But there where several stretch plays and zone blocking was the main blocking scheme behind McNeil (Chargers) and Grubbs(Ravens) and I think Pucillo (Redskins).

P.S. Not that it matters but that offensive coordinator got fired this year and has not had a good offense since Campbell's last year.