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PennSkinsFan
01-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Link (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/)

But now, with his recent promotion to executive vice president/football operations last week Cerrato is without question the top decision maker in the organization. That's how his peers see him. The Redskins - save for actually using the GM title - have handed Cerrato the position. Given Snyder' well-known deep involvement with the franchise's moves, there's no more need to wonder who is responsible.
He will be assessed and graded in real time, and for posterity. Whether Snyder is pulling all the strings is irrelevant, because the league will be grading Cerrato's personnel record starting with this coaching hire.

Fair enough. The promotion does put Vinny under the spotlight. This off-season is critical to Vinny. If this is what he has been waiting for, well his time has come.


In term of fairness, I am willing to wipe the slate clean in Vinny and judge him from this point forward. His first move is this coaching hire. He starts out with an 'F' if he hires any one with the last name starting with an 'F' ending in 'l' and gas an 'asse' in the middle

Redskinmayhem
01-29-2008, 04:57 PM
In term of fairness, I am willing to wipe the slate clean in Vinny and judge him from this point forward. His first move is this coaching hire. He starts out with an 'F' if he hires any one with the last name starting with an 'F' ending in 'l' and gas an 'asse' in the middle

agreed, lets wipe the slate clean and start from scratch.

SkinsfaninNJ
01-29-2008, 04:58 PM
It scares me just seeing a thread called "The Vinny Era".

The Skinsinator
01-29-2008, 04:59 PM
We have no choice and I will agree with your positive attitude although he's not the general manager I envisioned getting. FA starts in a month on Feb 29 and the draft in April of course. Safe to say Vinny has been and will continue to be very busy. His time better be maximized along with his selections.

akhhorus
01-29-2008, 04:59 PM
It scares me just seeing a thread called "The Vinny Era".

The Crisis of the 3rd Century
The Dark Ages
The Cold War
The Vinny Era.

JasonCampbell
01-29-2008, 05:00 PM
The Vinny Era hasn't just begun. We've been in it since '01. The 'Being responsible for the decisions Vinny makes and not passing the blame off on Gibbs/Snyder/assistant coaches Era' begins.

PennSkinsFan
01-29-2008, 05:01 PM
The Vinny Era hasn't just begun. We've been in it since '01. The 'Being responsible for the decisions Vinny makes and not passing the blame off on Gibbs/Snyder/assistant coaches Era' begins.

I dont buy that. From 2004 to this year, Joe Gibbs was calling the shots.

JasonCampbell
01-29-2008, 05:04 PM
I dont buy that. From 2004 to this year, Joe Gibbs was calling the shots.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I can't remember who (sorry, but I can't keep everything Redskins related straight in my mind these days :smash:), maybe Brian Mitchell, had contacts that said Gibbs was along for the ride when it came to personnel with Snyder/Cerrato and not vice versa.

shally
01-29-2008, 05:06 PM
Link (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/)



Fair enough. The promotion does put Vinny under the spotlight. This off-season is critical to Vinny. If this is what he has been waiting for, well his time has come.


In term of fairness, I am willing to wipe the slate clean in Vinny and judge him from this point forward. His first move is this coaching hire. He starts out with an 'F' if he hires any one with the last name starting with an 'F' ending in 'l' and gas an 'asse' in the middle

one only need look to detroit to see just how long an incompetent GM can last if he has favor with ownership

i will tell you right now that we are looking at at LEAST 7 years of bungling before vinnie gets held accountable.

if the first HC hire flames out, it will be 3 years at least and vinnie will get a chance to choose again. that will be at least another 3 years before the bill comes due.

what i am saying is that we all better hope and pray that vinnie isnt as catastrophic a hire as we fear or this team will be mired for close to a decade before snyder acts

shally
01-29-2008, 05:07 PM
The Vinny Era hasn't just begun. We've been in it since '01. The 'Being responsible for the decisions Vinny makes and not passing the blame off on Gibbs/Snyder/assistant coaches Era' begins.

nope.. gibbs 2 gets the responsibilities for the past 4 years.. that is not on cerrato

The Skinsinator
01-29-2008, 05:08 PM
The Crisis of the 3rd Century
The Dark Ages
The Cold War
The Vinny Era.LMAO. Where does the Snyder era get in there or perhaps just the Snyderrto era?

PennSkinsFan
01-29-2008, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't be so sure of that. I can't remember who (sorry, but I can't keep everything Redskins related straight in my mind these days :smash:), maybe Brian Mitchell, had contacts that said Gibbs was along for the ride when it came to personnel with Snyder/Cerrato and not vice versa.

Various sources have reported, as well as some sources that I have myself, that most of the decisions, like Duckett, Archuleta, and Lloyd were made by Gibbs/GW and in fact those very three transaction Cerrato was reportedly not high on.

shally
01-29-2008, 05:10 PM
LMAO. Where does the Snyder era get in there or perhaps just the Snyderrto era?

love in the times of cholera...

shally
01-29-2008, 05:12 PM
Various sources have reported, as well as some sources that I have myself, that most of the decisions, like Duckett, Archuleta, and Lloyd were made by Gibbs/GW and in fact those very three transaction Cerrato was reportedly not high on.

although i almost totally agree on that point , remember, the victors get to re write history.. i doubt that vinnie would want to embrace any aspect of those moves...

greatest2
01-29-2008, 05:13 PM
The Crisis of the 3rd Century
The Dark Ages
The Cold War
The Vinny Era.

i agree completly. at least this time, if vinny makes the wrong moves MAYBE Snyder will hold him accountable and ship him out. I wish vinny was gone now, but if he is going to call the shots, at least now hopefully he will be responsible for the outcomes and if he is unsuccessful he will be let go

shally
01-29-2008, 05:15 PM
i agree completly. at least this time, if vinny makes the wrong moves MAYBE Snyder will hold him accountable and ship him out. I wish vinny was gone now, but if he is going to call the shots, at least now hopefully he will be responsible for the outcomes and if he is unsuccessful he will be let go

nope.. not for a long long time.. we better hope vinnie has a decent learning curve as GM

The Skinsinator
01-29-2008, 05:16 PM
i agree completly. at least this time, if vinny makes the wrong moves MAYBE Snyder will hold him accountable and ship him out. I wish vinny was gone now, but if he is going to call the shots, at least now hopefully he will be responsible for the outcomes and if he is unsuccessful he will be let goSee that's why Cerrato is such a problem. I can't see Synder ever dismissing him from the franchise completely possibly demoting him but not getting rid of him entirely. Classic example of why you never get into business with friends and family and we as Skins fans have to pay the price. Maybe Cerrato can turn it around but we have little reason to think he would. At least he hasn't traded a pick away YET. :)

SpicyMcHaggis
01-29-2008, 05:20 PM
The Crisis of the 3rd Century
The Dark Ages
The Cold War
The Vinny Era.

I'm thinking more along the lines of:
The Apocalypse
Nuclear Holocaust
The Vinny Era.

The Skinsinator
01-29-2008, 05:22 PM
I'm thinking more along the lines of:
The Apocalypse
Nuclear Holocaust
The Vinny Era.ROTFL ah the optimism about the Cerrato Era continues.

akhhorus
01-29-2008, 05:23 PM
I'm thinking more along the lines of:
The Apocalypse
Nuclear Holocaust
The Vinny Era.

Vinny is the 5th horseman.

love in the times of cholera...

Still the most unromantic book title ever lol.

akhhorus
01-29-2008, 05:25 PM
ROTFL ah the optimism about the Cerrato Era continues.

In three years, we'll have a thread about "What do you remember most about the Vinny Era" and most of the posts will be:

"My drinking"
"My heroin addiction"
"Lawn work on sundays"
"the restraining orders Vinny took out on me"

SpicyMcHaggis
01-29-2008, 05:30 PM
In three years, we'll have a thread about "What do you remember most about the Vinny Era" and most of the posts will be:

"My drinking"
"My heroin addiction"
"Lawn work on sundays"
"the restraining orders Vinny took out on me"

Hey, at least that would mean that some of us survived...



As you can see, I'm really looking forward to this. Optimism is at an all-time high.

SkinsfaninNJ
01-29-2008, 05:32 PM
In three years, we'll have a thread about "What do you remember most about the Vinny Era" and most of the posts will be:

"My drinking"
"My heroin addiction"
"Lawn work on sundays"
"the restraining orders Vinny took out on me"

LMAO.

akhhorus
01-29-2008, 05:32 PM
Hey, at least that would mean that some of us survived...

As you can see, I'm really looking forward to this. Optimism is at an all-time high.

http://www.james-newton-howard.com/discography/images/alive.jpg

shally
01-29-2008, 05:37 PM
Hey, at least that would mean that some of us survived...



As you can see, I'm really looking forward to this. Optimism is at an all-time high.

fear that after the nuclear winter that is vinnie, only the cockroaches will survive...

SpicyMcHaggis
01-29-2008, 05:44 PM
fear that after the nuclear winter that is vinnie, only the cockroaches will survive...

Unless the roaches cheer for the Redskins..in that case they will probably not make it.

shally
01-29-2008, 05:47 PM
Unless the roaches cheer for the Redskins..in that case they will probably not make it.
nah, the cowboys have a lock on that populace

Meatsnack
01-29-2008, 05:48 PM
Unless the roaches cheer for the Redskins..in that case they will probably not make it.

Do cockroaches have livers?

shally
01-29-2008, 05:52 PM
Do cockroaches have livers?

ask jerruh jones, after the loss to the giants he looks as though he would have the answer to that one...

SpicyMcHaggis
01-29-2008, 05:53 PM
nah, the cowboys have a lock on that populace
You're probably right..lol

Syllable
01-29-2008, 05:56 PM
Wipe the slate clean, lets see how he goes from here.

smoak
01-29-2008, 08:00 PM
The Crisis of the 3rd Century
The Dark Ages
The Cold War
The Vinny Era.

That time you got crabs "from a toilet seat"...

The only reason I am happy about this is because it might mean that Danny will fire Vinny some day...

Skins7ny
01-29-2008, 08:12 PM
The Vinny Era hasn't just begun. We've been in it since '01. The 'Being responsible for the decisions Vinny makes and not passing the blame off on Gibbs/Snyder/assistant coaches Era' begins.
Agree 100% based upon what we know.

one only need look to detroit to see just how long an incompetent GM can last if he has favor with ownership

i will tell you right now that we are looking at at LEAST 7 years of bungling before vinnie gets held accountable.

if the first HC hire flames out, it will be 3 years at least and vinnie will get a chance to choose again. that will be at least another 3 years before the bill comes due.

what i am saying is that we all better hope and pray that vinnie isnt as catastrophic a hire as we fear or this team will be mired for close to a decade before snyder acts
Actually, the people in Detroit could look to us and say the exact same thing. Vinny has been screwing up our franchise longer than Millen has been screwing up theirs.
Various sources have reported, as well as some sources that I have myself, that most of the decisions, like Duckett, Archuleta, and Lloyd were made by Gibbs/GW and in fact those very three transaction Cerrato was reportedly not high on.
I hear stuff like this occasionally, most recently from Mike Wilbon in his most recent column, but in more general terms without any of the specifics you mention. I am tired of non-specifics. If Wilbon knows something that would leaven our opinion about Vinny, he should tell us specifically what he knows. I don't want to bash Vinny unjustifiably, but I need specifics. Because based on how everything looks, Vinny is a train wreck, and not just based on the last 4 years. If there is info out there, like the kind you specified, people in the business like Wilbon have a duty to their readers to get specific and if possible, expressly source the story.

Skins7ny
01-29-2008, 08:13 PM
That time you got crabs "from a toilet seat"...

The only reason I am happy about this is because it might mean that Danny will fire Vinny some day...

It won't happen. Vinny will blame Scott Campbell and Louis Riddick if we have a bad year. Danny will believe him. Vinny is Rasputin.

smoak
01-29-2008, 08:19 PM
It won't happen. Vinny will blame Scott Campbell and Louis Riddick if we have a bad year. Danny will believe him. Vinny is Rasputin.

Vinny?
http://www.dailyredundancy.com/images/rasputin.jpg

Hey, I said "some day". Heck, that could be 70 years from now when we are firing Mariucchi's grandkid as head coach.

JasonCampbell
01-29-2008, 08:20 PM
Actually, the people in Detroit could look to us and say the exact same thing. Vinny has been screwing up our franchise longer than Millen has been screwing up theirs.



Nah, Vinny has two more playoffs appearances than Millen.

smoak
01-29-2008, 08:21 PM
Nah, Vinny has two more playoffs appearances than Millen.

I smell a poll. C'mon.... Start it. I'll vote for Millen.

Keino
01-29-2008, 09:01 PM
Nah, Vinny has two more playoffs appearances than Millen.

Actually he has 3, though I don't think Vinny gets a ton of credit for the 99 Brad Johnson led team. Millen was hired by the Lions in 2001. He's never sniffed the playoffs. The lions are 31-81 under his watch.

shally
01-29-2008, 09:36 PM
Actually he has 3, though I don't think Vinny gets a ton of credit for the 99 Brad Johnson led team. Millen was hired by the Lions in 2001. He's never sniffed the playoffs. The lions are 31-81 under his watch.

not even close. the lions have been drafting at the top of the draft year in and year out. hard to find anyone who is as bad a combo as harrington and rogers for abject failures.

millen wins hands down for futility

colkurtz
01-29-2008, 11:07 PM
Vinny?
http://www.dailyredundancy.com/images/rasputin.jpg

Hey, I said "some day". Heck, that could be 70 years from now when we are firing Mariucchi's grandkid as head coach.

smoak,

Vinny drafts better than Rasputin..................because Rasputin is dead.

or so i've heard.

colkurtz
01-29-2008, 11:16 PM
Vinny Era:

1. "The age when I finally gave in and enthusiastically embraced becoming a raging alcoholic"
2. "Another sign that Al Gore is right and you shouldn't buy beach property in Florida"
3. "Having dreams of time travel where I can move forward 5 years until this numbnuts is put out to pasture"


Seriously, America is the land of the clean slate. We start a fresh look at Vinny but I, for one, am really keeping score! Let's see what he can do.

shally
01-29-2008, 11:16 PM
smoak,

Vinny drafts better than Rasputin..................because Rasputin is dead.

or so i've heard.

yeah, but rasputin had a 12 " ****, nobody ever accused vinnie of having one of those

colkurtz
01-29-2008, 11:20 PM
yeah, but rasputin had a 12 " ****, nobody ever accused vinnie of having one of those

Yes, but Vinny has a "long nose" for sticking it up the owners ***CENSORED BY SPENCE **. Isn't that the same thing?

Shally, seriously does this guy have any hope?

joethefan
01-29-2008, 11:22 PM
this whole waiting to name a head coach fiasco is hurting Vinnie and Danny...and tell you what, they'd better get it right. By the time training camp begins, this will be water under the bridge..

I do agree that vinnie should get a fair shot to begin but hell, it's been rocky so far...

RedskinRyan
01-30-2008, 10:16 AM
this whole waiting to name a head coach fiasco is hurting Vinnie and Danny...and tell you what, they'd better get it right. By the time training camp begins, this will be water under the bridge..

I do agree that vinnie should get a fair shot to begin but hell, it's been rocky so far...

What makes you think we'll have a head coach before then?

Skins7ny
01-30-2008, 02:17 PM
Actually he has 3, though I don't think Vinny gets a ton of credit for the 99 Brad Johnson led team. Millen was hired by the Lions in 2001. He's never sniffed the playoffs. The lions are 31-81 under his watch.

smoak,

Vinny drafts better than Rasputin..................because Rasputin is dead.

or so i've heard.

Rasputin never would have traded a 3rd and a 4th for Brandon Lloyd.

this whole waiting to name a head coach fiasco is hurting Vinnie and Danny...and tell you what, they'd better get it right. By the time training camp begins, this will be water under the bridge..

I do agree that vinnie should get a fair shot to begin but hell, it's been rocky so far...

Tell me again what Vinny has been doing for 9 out of the last 10 years?

shally
01-30-2008, 04:03 PM
Yes, but Vinny has a "long nose" for sticking it up the owners ***CENSORED BY SPENCE **. Isn't that the same thing?

Shally, seriously does this guy have any hope?

i can only hope he is not as bad as we fear when he has total control

face it, the past 4 years where gibbs was in control had quite a few mistakes as well. rumor that vinnie was opposed to a number of player moves but got over ruled. who knows what actually went on

at least there will be little confusion over who to blame from here on out

Hr fan
01-31-2008, 09:03 AM
The Crisis of the 3rd Century
The Dark Ages
The Cold War
The Vinny Era.

I can't appreciate your optimism. The Vinnie era will easily be worse than any of the above in terms of immediacy of descent, depths reached, and lessons learned that can contribute to recovery.

colkurtz
01-31-2008, 12:18 PM
i can only hope he is not as bad as we fear when he has total control

face it, the past 4 years where gibbs was in control had quite a few mistakes as well. rumor that vinnie was opposed to a number of player moves but got over ruled. who knows what actually went on

at least there will be little confusion over who to blame from here on out

Agreed. Gibbs was in total control and there were quite a few personnel blunders. But of course some people want to blame Snyderrato for only the bad picks and Joe Gibbs for only the good ones.

Vinny will be responsible for this draft. Let's see how he does.

bergiemoore
01-31-2008, 12:29 PM
Agreed. Gibbs was in total control and there were quite a few personnel blunders. But of course some people want to blame Snyderrato for only the bad picks and Joe Gibbs for only the good ones.

Vinny will be responsible for this draft. Let's see how he does.

What I really like about the Vinny Era is that there is no more ambiguity over personnel moves. Dan may still over pay for inferior talent, but now we can be sure that the inferior talent was hand picked by Vinny.

SpicyMcHaggis
01-31-2008, 12:34 PM
I can't appreciate your optimism. The Vinnie era will easily be worse than any of the above in terms of immediacy of descent, depths reached, and lessons learned that can contribute to recovery.
So I guess you are closer toy my apocalypse/nuclear holocaust/end of days kind of scenario...

akhhorus
01-31-2008, 12:37 PM
What I really like about the Vinny Era is that there is no more ambiguity over personnel moves. Dan may still over pay for inferior talent, but now we can be sure that the inferior talent was hand picked by Vinny.

I don't believe that Danny won't be deeply involved in moves. All Vinny's title really changes is that he's accountable.

SpicyMcHaggis
01-31-2008, 12:39 PM
I don't believe that Danny won't be deeply involved in moves. All Vinny's title really changes is that he is theoretically accountable but won't be because in Danny's eyes, Vinny can do no wrong.
fixed for you.

akhhorus
01-31-2008, 12:42 PM
fixed for you.

Potentially, but the fact that he put Vinny out there with a titular title of authority leads me to believe that its Vinny's neck in the proverbial noose right now.

CNYSkinFan
01-31-2008, 12:47 PM
I don't believe that Danny won't be deeply involved in moves. All Vinny's title really changes is that he's accountable.
nd I am sorry I still wont wipe the slate cleqan for Duckett and Lloyd. Did Gibbs want them....sure. But it was Vinny who negotiated the deals that send away a first day pick for duckett and two picks for Lloyd. It was vinny who dealt for the fist that got us Campbell a little early and maybe we could have got better value on draft day. It was Vinny who could not even get an additional 2nd day pick for Moss. It was Vinny who negotiated the Champ deal (I have no prob with CP, but the additional 2nd was probably a little high),

Sure you can argue Gibbs approved all those deals but Gibbs didn't negotiate them.

Also what about the fact it was Vinny who went RFA shopping in 2002 for Coles, Morton, & Hall. It was Vinny who was the architect behind the 2000 abortion signing Carrier, George, Deion, & Smith

SpicyMcHaggis
01-31-2008, 12:50 PM
Potentially, but the fact that he put Vinny out there with a titular title of authority leads me to believe that its Vinny's neck in the proverbial noose right now.
My problem with the whole "accoutability" issue is that, no matter what we or the general public may think of Vinny, he has, in Danny's eyes, done enough good things to merit a promotion. How that is compatable with reality is not very clear to me, and I don't see any indication that Danny's method of evaluation will change in the future. Meaning that Vinny can continue to do what he does best (horrible deals for us), and Danny will continue to be satisfied.

CNYSkinFan
01-31-2008, 12:53 PM
i was avoiding this thread and now that I posted in it I have renewed my sense of doom.

Damn you snyderato!!!!!

akhhorus
01-31-2008, 12:59 PM
nd I am sorry I still wont wipe the slate cleqan for Duckett and Lloyd. Did Gibbs want them....sure. But it was Vinny who negotiated the deals that send away a first day pick for duckett and two picks for Lloyd. It was vinny who dealt for the fist that got us Campbell a little early and maybe we could have got better value on draft day. It was Vinny who could not even get an additional 2nd day pick for Moss. It was Vinny who negotiated the Champ deal (I have no prob with CP, but the additional 2nd was probably a little high),

Sure you can argue Gibbs approved all those deals but Gibbs didn't negotiate them.

Also what about the fact it was Vinny who went RFA shopping in 2002 for Coles, Morton, & Hall. It was Vinny who was the architect behind the 2000 abortion signing Carrier, George, Deion, & Smith

And Snyder was as involved as Vinny was. Vinny is to blame for a lot, even during the Gibbs years, but Snyder is right there with them.

My problem with the whole "accoutability" issue is that, no matter what we or the general public may think of Vinny, he has, in Danny's eyes, done enough good things to merit a promotion. How that is compatable with reality is not very clear to me, and I don't see any indication that Danny's method of evaluation will change in the future. Meaning that Vinny can continue to do what he does best (horrible deals for us), and Danny will continue to be satisfied.

Then why bother with a title change? If Snyder is truly 100% telling the truth about how "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" then why bother making Vinny in name the decider. Unless you giving him the responsibility for potential failure.

Jon Creveling
01-31-2008, 01:03 PM
Potentially, but the fact that he put Vinny out there with a titular title of authority leads me to believe that its Vinny's neck in the proverbial noose right now.

AKH man you're creeping me out with your G.W. pic. ! It reminds me of a macabre trophy:) , sort of a slain deer head mounted on a wall! Is that your intent?

bergiemoore
01-31-2008, 01:12 PM
And Snyder was as involved as Vinny was. Vinny is to blame for a lot, even during the Gibbs years, but Snyder is right there with them.



Then why bother with a title change? If Snyder is truly 100% telling the truth about how "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" then why bother making Vinny in name the decider. Unless you giving him the responsibility for potential failure.

I think that after the first weekend of interviews, Vinny convinced Danny to give him the keys to the organization, and Danny, obviously unimpressed with the lack of Gibbs-clones to interview, acquiesced.

If nothing else, Vinny will bear the brunt of the responsibility for the decisions made by Snyderrato.