Zorn Hired, do you approve w/Poll

[skinfanjon]

My opinion has nothing to do with Zorn being the HC. It has everything to do with our FO. It's like the Bad News Bears meets Porky's. Snyder and Cerrato (sp?) either are or look like clowns. The fact that Fassel was even a consideration was Ringling Brothersesque. Now Zorn is the HC?!?!? Where'd that come from?!?!? And please spare me any analysis on the "Dynamic Duos" decision making process. They look inept and know as much about football as, well, whatever.

I wish Zorn the best. However, the odds are really stacked against him and rightfully so: No HC experience, storied franchise, new team to learn, no NFC East experience, blah, blah , blah. It's a crap shoot at best. This owner needs to do everyone a favor and put himself out of his own misery.

If this works, you and some other Snyder bashers are gonna have a lot of crow to eat. I'm sure you would happily do it, but still.

If Zorn succeeds, there is no way to withhold praise for the FO's decision on this. If he fails badly, they are very culpable. No way around it at this point.

I don't get it....argue the process all you want, but we ended up promoting a guy to DC from within (read: continuity) and acquiring a bright young man to take over the team. We still have free agency coming up as well as a nearly full arsenal of draft picks. Not to mention, we're coming off a playoff season. Things are looking up if you ask me.

[BandWagon]

There's the arguement that this was a completely bungled process. Undoubtedly magnified by the rapidity of internet news, blogs, and message boards such as this. However, to be completely fair there is an equally good chance that they did exactly what they said they were going to do (a judicious and thoughtful process) coupled with absolutely piss poor public relations outreach.

I personally believe the liked Zorn and kept coming back to him as a possible candidate, but had the same feelings about his qualifications many have expressed here. Some may have snubbed the skins...perhaps they interviewed with no intention other than raising their own asking price with their own teams... Perhaps others were never seriously considered. Others may have been on the wish list and unavailable. Then they just kept coming back to Zorn and eventually realized "hey the guy we really like the best is the guy we already hired".

[skinfanjon]

i really like this hire and if you look at a certain picture his hair is sticking up just like the silouetee of the mystery canidate. i think he is a players coach and im hoping he succesful and will give him time to do so. as far as oc its got be someon west coast but he hired fassel that probably wouldnt be a good idea fassel might try to sabotage becuase he was passed over for head coach.

I thought that mystery candidate pic was just a generic because we had no idea who it was. Was it a legit image of the guy?

[skinfanjon]

There's the arguement that this was a completely bungled process. Undoubtedly magnified by the rapidity of internet news, blogs, and message boards such as this. However, to be completely fair there is an equally good chance that they did exactly what they said they were going to do (a judicious and thoughtful process) coupled with absolutely piss poor public relations outreach.

I personally believe the liked Zorn and kept coming back to him as a possible candidate, but had the same feelings about his qualifications many have expressed here. Some may have snubbed the skins...perhaps they interviewed with no intention other than raising their own asking price with their own teams... Perhaps others were never seriously considered. Others may have been on the wish list and unavailable. Then they just kept coming back to Zorn and eventually realized "hey the guy we really like the best is the guy we already hired".

Thank you. I'm just presenting the other side to the argument, both are legitimate possibilities.

[BandWagon]

The fans on the Seahawks boards are in shock but elated for Zorn. Several of them declared that the Skins are their second team now. What a change from a few short weeks ago! They're also looking forward to the Skins game in Seattle this regular season when they can welcome him home.

God, what a change of heart. Some of those guys were incredibly mean spirited when I was out there a couple years ago watching the skins/boys game in a local sports bar. Amazing.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

When this process started, I was hoping for fresh ideas in the organization, Grimm, Spags, Meeks, etc. When we focussed on some defensive HC after hiring Zorn (Meeks and Spags) I felt like Zorn can run the offense himself, and the only tricky area would be the mesh of the new HC with Blanche. That was a better situation than Fassel or Mooch coming in standing in the way of Zorn unless Fassel/Mooch were going to be CEO style HC.

Taking all of that into consideration, I think this is a good hire. We got the new blood and fresh ideas. We got the hungry guy looking to make his legacy. We also got a guy who has made his bones molding QB's with talent like Campbell. Make no mistake about this, Zorn knows his best chance at instant success is Campbell so expect them to be joined at the hip for most of the offseason.

[SkinsWest]

I love Zorn, what a great player he was. I vaguely remember his Seahawks beating the Cowboys on a Monday night to help the Skins to the playoffs.

Wow, I'm shocked by this hire. I'm glad the guy got a 5 year deal, so hopefully Dan and Vin will let him grow into the job and not interfere too much. I still voted against the hire, but I'm rooting for for Zorn, I always have. Just hope he can make the jump to this level, it's a tough one.

[redskin_rich]

And please spare me any analysis on the "Dynamic Duos" decision making process. They look inept and know as much about football as, well, whatever.


I don't know exactly why you chose to quote me with your post and the two sentences you posted, that I isolated above, prove you have not been reading what I have been posting for the last month or what I have been saying in this thread.

I hate having to repeat myself but yes, Snyderatto has looked inept throughout this process. There has been indecision throughout. What I like about this decision is the fact that it is not the popular or safe decision. It is a gamble but Zorn does have respect around the league.

Please don't ignorantly peg me as a Snyderatto apologist again.

[smoak]

There's the arguement that this was a completely bungled process. Undoubtedly magnified by the rapidity of internet news, blogs, and message boards such as this. However, to be completely fair there is an equally good chance that they did exactly what they said they were going to do (a judicious and thoughtful process) coupled with absolutely piss poor public relations outreach.

I personally believe the liked Zorn and kept coming back to him as a possible candidate, but had the same feelings about his qualifications many have expressed here. Some may have snubbed the skins...perhaps they interviewed with no intention other than raising their own asking price with their own teams... Perhaps others were never seriously considered. Others may have been on the wish list and unavailable. Then they just kept coming back to Zorn and eventually realized "hey the guy we really like the best is the guy we already hired".

Fact: They wasted four interviews on an internal candidate just to fire the guy. I get the need for four interviews on an external candidate, but this was a total waste b/c Gregg wasn't getting this job.

Fact: It was reported by several media sources that the term of the contract for JF were in place, and Fassell is reportedly the one who turned us on to Zorn in the first place. Maybe these are false, but it was reported that Fassell felt "manipulated".

Fact:We hired a full staff on both sides of the ball before hiring a head coach. When has that ever been done before???

Fact: They waited until Zorn had everything set up in his new office before basically making him pack it all up and move to the head coaches office. How unproductive is that!!!??? :D

[HAWGZHEAD]

Ummmmmm jaw dropper. First time I have logged on today and I see this lol. I'm optimistic of this move and will give him a longer leash than what I would have extended to Fossil. Well I believe if Campbell was going to be given a chance to shine, this will be it. The first thing I thought of how it went was "well we couldn't find anyone else that wanted the job Zorn, so here ya go" lol I hope it didn't go down that way whether they told him that or not.

Welcome Mr. Zorn and Good luck.

[hogs86]

I am not able to read to0 much on this but if someone can just give me a quick answer to who is our offensive coordinator now? That would be great. thanks.


IMO they should look at Sherman Smith, Tennessee Titans. Zorn and Smith played together in Seattle and are good friends.

[CNYSkinFan]

Well, I concede Cowher, thats almost certain. [\quote]

Ok I am glad we agree on that.

[QUOTE]I think the situation with Mora is a little more complex than you imply. He interviewed with us, and were probably we very interested, but in the process we gave him leverage to use with the Seahawks. He was promised the gig after next season because they were worried we would steal him. Why would he move his family all the way accross the country (again) when he's got his HC job lined up in his own backyard? Seattle is a good gig, too.

So you admit he rejected the Redskins for Seattle. Whether he had reasons to or not does not matter. The fact that he did is another rejection.

Spags? Honestly, I have no idea. Maybe we would have offered, maybe we just wanted to get a feel for him and complete the process. All I'm saying is Snyder hasn't been proven a liar in any of this, do you have evidence to the contrary?

I have logic to deduce that Snyder is probably lying. Why wait so long to just hire the guy you already hired? Why because we wanted Spags. We let him go home to talk it over with his wife and to make sure that when we offered it to him he would accept. he decided not to. Another rejection.

As for Carroll, I have no idea why he was even brought up, not to mention why you would want him anyway. We had, what, ONE meeting with the guy? We're to assume that we were ready to hand him the keys to the kingdom prior to that meeting? It could have just as easily been mutual, you know Snyder would be leary of hiring a college guy after the Spurrier debacle.

Any NFL team with an oppening would have Carroll, does have Carrol, at the top of their fantasy list. Carrol rejected Atlanta as well. All that means is we have company in our misery. Make no mistake Danny wanted Carol, college or no. And Carol has NFL experience so the Spurrier model does not work.

You don't have to be an apologist to think there are more ways this could have gone down. You think I'm being pollyanish, fine, but I think you are basing your conclusions on your personal feelings for Snyder. I neither love Snyder nor hate him, I am very on the fence about him at this moment and I believe this is his last great chance to get this franchise going under his watch. You have admitted you despise him and Cerrato, no?

I actually get alot of flack on this board for once voting Snyder a better owner then JKC. So to think I hate Dan Snyder and that is why I hate this coaching process is ridiculous. I don't hate Dan Snyder. I think he is great at marketing and making money.

But Snyder along with his lackey Cerraot are desperately poor in almost every football choice. People want to mark the slate clean with Cerrato for the mistakes of the past. W ell even if you do that his hands are all over this coaching search and in his first big test he has failed miserably.

Zorn may turn out to be a good choice, but I don't believe he is a choice at all. I think he is what we are left with because no one else of substance will get near the job.

So I will back Zorn, but this front office and the football moves odf Dan Snyder and Cerrato I have no respect or hope for. They have gotten a ton of chances already, to believe they will change is foolhearty IMO

[TrueOracle]

If this works, you and some other Snyder bashers are gonna have a lot of crow to eat. I'm sure you would happily do it, but still.

If Zorn succeeds, there is no way to withhold praise for the FO's decision on this. If he fails badly, they are very culpable. No way around it at this point.

I don't get it....argue the process all you want, but we ended up promoting a guy to DC from within (read: continuity) and acquiring a bright young man to take over the team. We still have free agency coming up as well as a nearly full arsenal of draft picks. Not to mention, we're coming off a playoff season. Things are looking up if you ask me.

You're right, I would gladly eat a full course of crow. However, that is a perspective laden with hope only. No decision Snyder has made to date where coaches were concerned, can give anyone any reason to believe, without the "hope" argument that is, that Zorn was their 1st pick.

This is the same guy that CHOSE Spurrier. Gibbs wasn't a decision. He was a prayer answered. Now we're supposed to believe that JZ (no, not Jay-Z) was a Beathard-like decision? I'm believing that as much as I believe Clemens is innocent.

[skinfanjon]

Fact: They wasted four interviews on an internal candidate just to fire the guy. I get the need for four interviews on an external candidate, but this was a total waste b/c Gregg wasn't getting this job.

Fact: It was reported by several media sources that the term of the contract for JF were in place, and Fassell is reportedly the one who turned us on to Zorn in the first place. Maybe these are false, but it was reported that Fassell felt "manipulated".

Fact:We hired a full staff on both sides of the ball before hiring a head coach. When has that ever been done before???

Fact: They waited until Zorn had everything set up in his new office before basically making him pack it all up and move to the head coaches office. How unproductive is that!!!??? :D

How does any of those facts discredit the argument of being thorough? Also, I think its safe to say the reporting on this has been less than reliable.

Again, I'm not saying they did or did not know exactly what they were doing. I'm just saying its a valid argument. Either way, we seem to be happy with the end result. If we stepped on a few toes to get there, who cares?

[HAWGZHEAD]

A jets fan voted he disapproved which makes me much more comfortable with my approve vote lol.

[TrueOracle]

I don't know exactly why you chose to quote me with your post and the two sentences you posted, that I isolated above, prove you have not been reading what I have been posting for the last month or what I have been saying in this thread.

I hate having to repeat myself but yes, Snyderatto has looked inept throughout this process. There has been indecision throughout. What I like about this decision is the fact that it is not the popular or safe decision. It is a gamble but Zorn does have respect around the league.

Please don't ignorantly peg me as a Snyderatto apologist again.

Let me apologize. My post was meant to underscore your points. I can see how that was misunderstood. I'm on your team, patnuh.

[LATrueRedskin]

Just made it to the party. WOW! What an unbelievable turn of events. I like Zorn over Fassell, that's for sure. It'll be extremely interesting to see what Zorn does, and how he works with Snyder and Cerrato. One would have to assume that we'll hire another OC to work under Zorn. I'm nervous because Zorn is making a huge jump, but I'm also anxious to see what he does with it. Congrats to Jim Zorn on the promotion.

[CNYSkinFan]

Thank you. I'm just presenting the other side to the argument, both are legitimate possibilities.
possibilities...sure...

Probabilities....not likely

Here is a quick test for your theory.

In say the last 5 years can you remember an NFL HC gig that was open for over a month and they decided to hire someone on staff, who they just hired two weeks before to a lesser position?

how about the last 10 years...

any memory of it at all?

They are either incredibly ahead of the curve or incredibly behind.....

considering how far we are away from a realistic shot at a Superbowl and our record under Snyder, then I know where I am betting

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I just have to say there is a lot of debate on this thread about the process. As a message board, this is the right place for those discussions, so this is not a criticism of the discussion. While I have been very outspoken about the inept process, I am ready to move on, put my full support behind Zorn and hope he can bring our team to the next level, which will undoubtedly return respect to Washington.

[CNYSkinFan]

How does any of those facts discredit the argument of being thorough? Also, I think its safe to say the reporting on this has been less than reliable.

Again, I'm not saying they did or did not know exactly what they were doing. I'm just saying its a valid argument. Either way, we seem to be happy with the end result. If we stepped on a few toes to get there, who cares?

Except those toes are our reputation and standing in the league...

and if you thinkn that does not matter, then wait until FA and we need to throw a uhaul full of money at a guy to come here when he will go to NY or Dallas for less and a chance at a ring.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Except those toes are our reputation and standing in the league...

and if you thinkn that does not matter, then wait until FA and we need to throw a uhaul full of money at a guy to come here when he will go to NY or Dallas for less and a chance at a ring.

We have a lot of work to do in the reputation and respect department. Winning is the only thing that is going to cure that.

[redskin_rich]

Let me apologize. My post was meant to underscore your points. I can see how that was misunderstood. I'm on your team, patnuh.

Accepted and my own apologies if I misunderstood.

Was there any candidate that you wanted and if you don't mind, who was it?

Just wondering.

Personally, I stopped caring weeks ago. I just wanted a coach. I was pretty much resigned to Fassel, which was better than Mooch, IMO. Spags intrigued me a bit but I didn't like the fact that he wasn't on the radar until after the Championship and that much of our staff had already been hired without an interview with him.

Long story short, this is about as good a hire as I could have expected for he simple facts that I have already stated. I love a gamble. Better to take a chance and fail than to have regrets... or something like that. :)

[give_portis_the_rock]

Damn, I wanted Spags (so he could finally get us a top flight pass rush).

[syphy]

just up on NFL.com has player reactions, including Cooley:

"I think he's going to be an excellent coach," said Hasselbeck, who had worked closely with Zorn since 2001, when Zorn became Seattle's quarterbacks coach. "But I told the guys here (in Hawaii) they better expect to work."

Added Cooley: "Personally, I was actually excited because it was someone that was already involved. It was someone they were obviously happy with as the offensive coordinator. I think it's a good decision for us.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8069af2a&template=with-video&confirm=true

[BandWagon]

Fact: They wasted four interviews on an internal candidate just to fire the guy. I get the need for four interviews on an external candidate, but this was a total waste b/c Gregg wasn't getting this job.

Fact: It was reported by several media sources that the term of the contract for JF were in place, and Fassell is reportedly the one who turned us on to Zorn in the first place. Maybe these are false, but it was reported that Fassell felt "manipulated".

Fact:We hired a full staff on both sides of the ball before hiring a head coach. When has that ever been done before???

Fact: They waited until Zorn had everything set up in his new office before basically making him pack it all up and move to the head coaches office. How unproductive is that!!!??? :D


Fact 1: Sure seems excessive and probably not fair. We all know our beloved owner doesn't lead with hugs and kisses...more like profanitites and 31 flavors. The B&G colored glasses view explains this away as he really wanted to make the GW scenario work and kept trying (interview after interview) to figure out how to like GW....but couldn't. (I know, that's a stretch...it was probably mean spiritedness in it's purest form)

Fact 2: I think the media knows as much as we do...so I can dismiss this one.

Fact 3: Seems odd...but I don't think anyone was looking for massive turnover. My guess is this was a mandate from Synderatto. Atypical yes, surprising given the specifics? Not for me.

Fact 4: Dumbest of all. Poor guy. At least he's been parking in the head coach spot since Thursday....

[skinfanjon]

[quote=skinfanjon;1081942]Well, I concede Cowher, thats almost certain. [\quote]

Ok I am glad we agree on that.



So you admit he rejected the Redskins for Seattle. Whether he had reasons to or not does not matter. The fact that he did is another rejection.

Yeah, it probably counts as a rejection, but its completely understandable. Whats so bad about being turned down if there is a very logical though proces behind it? Why is that such a bone of contention? It makes senes for Mora to stay in Seattle, its a good fit. There is no harm in interviewing him to see if he could be swayed. Its not that our job was completely undersirable.


I have logic to deduce that Snyder is probably lying. Why wait so long to just hire the guy you already hired? Why because we wanted Spags. We let him go home to talk it over with his wife and to make sure that when we offered it to him he would accept. he decided not to. Another rejection.


Lying about what, exactly? Did we definitely want Spags? I don't know. What I do know is every person we've ever wanted we've made it incredibly difficult to turn us down, financially speaking. I know that Coughlin just got extended and Spags has ambitions, it is possible that we interviewed him and decided we didn't like him enough to hire him.


Any NFL team with an oppening would have Carroll, does have Carrol, at the top of their fantasy list. Carrol rejected Atlanta as well. All that means is we have company in our misery. Make no mistake Danny wanted Carol, college or no. And Carol has NFL experience so the Spurrier model does not work.


I call BS. Not every NFL team is enamored with Carroll or college coaches in general. Did Danny want him? To an extent, yes, but do you really think he was ready to just name him HC based on what little he actually knows about the man? There has to be a courtship, preferably mutual. Cowher has a strong and well documented track history in the NFL, Carroll does not. From what I'm hearing you believe Snyder was willing to propse on the first date with alot of these candidates. I disagree. I think five, six years ago he may have, but I also think he's become less impulsive recently. I don't buy that he went in to the meeting ready to and him the job.

I actually get alot of flack on this board for once voting Snyder a better owner then JKC. So to think I hate Dan Snyder and that is why I hate this coaching process is ridiculous. I don't hate Dan Snyder. I think he is great at marketing and making money.

Fair enough, I did not know that. I voted JKC for the record, but its an unfair comparison. The book is not closed on Snyder yet.

But Snyder along with his lackey Cerraot are desperately poor in almost every football choice. People want to mark the slate clean with Cerrato for the mistakes of the past. W ell even if you do that his hands are all over this coaching search and in his first big test he has failed miserably.


I'm wiping the slate clean because its been for years since Snyderatto were making decisions by themselves. Four years hanging out with a hall of fame coah at that. I think its fair to give them a second chance on their own. If it blows up, I'll concede that they are helpless.

Saying this coaching search is a failure is wha we are debating, you cannot use your argument as defense of your argument, lol.


Zorn may turn out to be a good choice, but I don't believe he is a choice at all. I think he is what we are left with because no one else of substance will get near the job.



You yourself named Meeks, Fassel, and Mooch as candidates that we were just not ready to pull the trigger on. We chose Zorn over all of them. Meeks has gotten a ton of support around here and Mooch had mixed reviews. And I believe ZOrn has grown on Snyderatto since his arrival and emerged as the candidate of choice. I doubt he was back when he was originaly hired, but that doesn't mean the idea can't grow on them. Bottom line, Fasel was the default, not Zorn.

So I will back Zorn, but this front office and the football moves odf Dan Snyder and Cerrato I have no respect or hope for. They have gotten a ton of chances already, to believe they will change is foolhearty IMO

I disagree. I'm down for second chances. IMO, the whole Gibbs 2.0 was a learning experience for Snyderatto, this istheir second chance. I want to see what they can do with it and I do not concede the coaching search was a failure. We got a candidate that apparently HR is infatuated with, according to the polls. I we were not so judicial or indecisive in the process, whichever it may be, either Gregg Williams or Jim Fassel would be HC right now, not ZOrn. How's that taste?

I am not, however, down for third chances. I'm gonna be a fan of this team my whole life (not that you or anyone else here isn't), I have time for second chances, but I will not spend my life making excuses for them. If they prove to be incompetant these next few seasons I will bash away.

All I want out of this debate is for you to concede I am not necessarily a homer/pollyanna for thinking it MAY have gone somewhat according to plan. That, and that the Celtics aren't winning the championship :D

[skinfanjon]

possibilities...sure...

Probabilities....not likely

Here is a quick test for your theory.

In say the last 5 years can you remember an NFL HC gig that was open for over a month and they decided to hire someone on staff, who they just hired two weeks before to a lesser position?

how about the last 10 years...

any memory of it at all?

They are either incredibly ahead of the curve or incredibly behind.....

considering how far we are away from a realistic shot at a Superbowl and our record under Snyder, then I know where I am betting

Dan Snyder is an unusual bird, no question about it, lol. I never said otherwise.

[skinfanjon]

Except those toes are our reputation and standing in the league...

and if you thinkn that does not matter, then wait until FA and we need to throw a uhaul full of money at a guy to come here when he will go to NY or Dallas for less and a chance at a ring.

We'll get the guys we need or really covet. Money talks. Besides, since when is it a bad thing anyway that we might not get every free agent we want? The best offseasons we've had have been ones in which moderation was excersized.

Also, if this past season did not prove to you that any team (Lions and Raiders not withstanding) is capable of winning the Super Bowl, I don't know what to tell you.

[shally]

Damn, I wanted Spags (so he could finally get us a top flight pass rush).

dont know if we will have that (still hope we will)


but for damn sure, we wont be sitting on any 3 point 4th quarter leads

expect to see an offense that goes after people

[welagamy]

I have a friend of mine who played for the Seahawks while Zorn was the QB coach. He told me that he was very intellegent and would be a good head coach. And we should be alright..........We will have to wait and see....


Walid

[28thegreat]

This article just showed up at Comcast.net. Sounds like this was a little more coordinated than many have assumed. Even mentions JGs involvement. Good read.

"We knew of Jim's stellar offensive reputation, so we hired him as coordinator, but we also suspected he would be a strong candidate for head coach," Snyder said. "After our first six-hour interview with him, I told Joe (Gibbs), 'This guy would make a terrific head coach.' But we stayed true to our commitment to interview every candidate."

http://www6.comcast.net/sports/articles/general/2008/02/10/FBN.Redskins.Zorn/

[CamLwalk]

I, for one, welcome our new overlords!


Seriously though, I dunno...

First time head coach. Hell of a quarterback. I remember him being fun to watch...him and Largent cuttin up zones. From what little I know about him as a coach is that he's a smart, impressive football guy. Must give a helluva interview. Since I heard about it, I've been thinking about his game (back in the day) compared with JC's. I see similarities. Could work out....could blow up. Danny's got to back off for this to work. This might work out well for ARE. Get him more touches. Glad we kept Bugle and Blache. We need a nickname...JZ? Jimmy Z? Jimmy the Z? Zorn To Be Wild? Sorry...it's late.

Glad it's finally over! Now on to the draft!

[skinfanjon]

This article just showed up at Comcast.net. Sounds like this was a little more coordinated than many have assumed. Even mentions JGs involvement. Good read.

"We knew of Jim's stellar offensive reputation, so we hired him as coordinator, but we also suspected he would be a strong candidate for head coach," Snyder said. "After our first six-hour interview with him, I told Joe (Gibbs), 'This guy would make a terrific head coach.' But we stayed true to our commitment to interview every candidate."

http://www6.comcast.net/sports/articles/general/2008/02/10/FBN.Redskins.Zorn/

Just to be fair, that could all be viewed as spin. I've voiced my opinion enough.

[CamLwalk]

I was just...thinking about something. We (the fan community) have got to give this guy a chance. I'm old and I remember vividly when Gibbs was first hired. Nobody knew him, just that he'd been part of 'Air-Coryal'. I don't know what other Redskins fans thought at the time (we didn't have the intra-tubes back then, you see)...but when he lost his first 6 (SIX!!) games I wanted him gone. I wanted him OUT! And then, he suddenly started tearing the league a new one...I'm just saying, can you imagine if Jay Zee loses his first six games this fall? I'm willing to be patient. Here's hoping the fan community can too.

[Too Many Weapons]

I'm pretty happy. I wanted a young guy, with some energy and fresh ideas, and I've always liked Jim, going back to the time when he and Largent were fresh faced kids on a plucky expansion team. It's not hard to imagine him having a profound, positive impact on Jason Campbell.

I like Mariucchi and Fassell, and I think each got a raw deal in previous stops, but I really don't want to see either of them in Washington. We've done that before, with Schottenheimer and other "name" guys like Spurrier and I haven't liked the results.

Those two potential hires were essentially the coaching versions of some of the FA signings we've seen in that same time frame, namely for guys who have big names but are on the downhill side of their careers. This seems like a much better idea.

I'm also very relieved Mora didn't wind up with the job. I don't think much of that guy's level of committment or his style of play, which is too much like his old man's (i.e., trying more not to lose than to win.)

So far, the consensus seems to be that Jim will act as his own OC, which suits me just fine. It's been mentioned that Andy Reid was a QB coach when he was on the Packers' staff. Holmgren was the QB coach under Walsh for two years, as well, before taking over as Seifert's OC when he moved up to the top slot. QB coach is a pretty key position in the Walsh scheme of things.

Obviously, the process was a mess and an embarassment. All things considered, I think the Skins came out of it okay (and the vote stands now at 86-10 For, so...I think there's a lot of hopeful agreement.)

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I was just...thinking about something. We (the fan community) have got to give this guy a chance. I'm old and I remember vividly when Gibbs was first hired. Nobody knew him, just that he'd been part of 'Air-Coryal'. I don't know what other Redskins fans thought at the time (we didn't have the intra-tubes back then, you see)...but when he lost his first 6 (SIX!!) games I wanted him gone. I wanted him OUT! And then, he suddenly started tearing the league a new one...I'm just saying, can you imagine if Jay Zee loses his first six games this fall? I'm willing to be patient. Here's hoping the fan community can too.

If it makes you feel any better, Gibbs only lost his first five games. ;)

[stonebraker]

possibilities...sure...

Probabilities....not likely

Here is a quick test for your theory.

In say the last 5 years can you remember an NFL HC gig that was open for over a month and they decided to hire someone on staff, who they just hired two weeks before to a lesser position?

how about the last 10 years...

any memory of it at all?

They are either incredibly ahead of the curve or incredibly behind.....

considering how far we are away from a realistic shot at a Superbowl and our
record under Snyder, then I know where I am betting

LOL! Christ, i thought the sky was falling when we DIDNT have an HC
Luckily I know redskins fans pretty well (being one), so I'm pretty prepared for the sky tone falling no matter what.

[MadDog97]

I will see how this plays out, but on the surface this is just not smart.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Complete joke of a front office...Joke i tell you
Exactly my feelings. It's embarrasing that it is now obvious that we had no idea looking for a HC, and we had to give the job to our recently hired OC, who a few weeks before was a QB's coach.

I hope this turns out great, but today, I don't like it. Not that I would like any other candidate, though, lol

[PHIL32]

i was shocked just like everyone else.
however after thinking about it-probably a good move
being around holmgren he knows how to run a offense-saunders failed

defense and special teams are in good hands.

he will develop campbell and run a exciting offense.

if he lacks as hc-bring on cowher for 2009.






:dalassuk::dance:

[RedSkinBrit]

Not sure what to think although my knee jerk reaction was that gave him the job because other choices didn,t pan out,but i hope he sorts out our O line and maybe he proves the doubters wrong.

[whitskins]

None of the names left on the board excited me, including Grimm if you could even count him as having a shot.

I'm ready to give this guy a chance. I don't care if he was "just" a QB coach a month ago. He comes from the Holmgren tree and that has produced some great HC's. He also has had a long coaching career and a great playing career as well. I don't know if he's got the goods, but a week ago I had my heart set on Spags, so I'm certainly not going to come down on Zorn over the "experience" factor.

I'm going in with an open mind on this guy and a lot of hope. I know that this team is talented enough to be in the playoffs this year and beyond. And we'll always have the resources to add significant talent to our team if we make wise decisions.

The manner in which the search was conducted seemed chaotic, but we are where we are. If Zorn gets it done, no one will give a hoot that it took 30+ days to hire him. I really don't even care right now, I'm just glad it's done and we can start moving forward. He said he won't let us down and I'm ready to see what he's got.

[WarEagle]

First time head coach. Hell of a quarterback. I remember him being fun to watch...him and Largent cuttin up zones. From what little I know about him as a coach is that he's a smart, impressive football guy. Must give a helluva interview. Since I heard about it, I've been thinking about his game (back in the day) compared with JC's. I see similarities. Could work out....could blow up. Danny's got to back off for this to work. This might work out well for ARE. Get him more touches. Glad we kept Bugle and Blache. We need a nickname...JZ? Jimmy Z? Jimmy the Z? Zorn To Be Wild? Sorry...it's late.

I like Bigfoot as his nickname. Maybe we need a poll for this vital issue.

[GeneralDisorder]

Good Lord! Never been mistaken for a Dude before...

Hehehe... now you know what it's like being mistaken for an Australian...

:)

[WRSK1NS]

I voted yes because we needed a head coach and now we have one. Now with this hire we have....
"A clean slate"
"Fresh blood"
"A new Begining"
Insert cliche here!

Hopefully not just "New Meat" (lol)

[Axegrinder]

No matter how this plays out, the organization still looks like the Keystone Cops. They've mishandled the search, leaked the wrong name, took too long, and so on....

To me, they are the epitome of ineptness. Even if Zorn is "the man", these schmucks made a diamond look like tin. Give Snyderratto an opportunity to make a football decision, and more than likely they'll find a way to screw it up, at least from an image standpoint.

Good Luck Zorn!!!

[skinguy]

i'm not sure about this one .

[44FAN]

I was just...thinking about something. We (the fan community) have got to give this guy a chance. I'm old and I remember vividly when Gibbs was first hired. Nobody knew him, just that he'd been part of 'Air-Coryal'. I don't know what other Redskins fans thought at the time (we didn't have the intra-tubes back then, you see)...but when he lost his first 6 (SIX!!) games I wanted him gone. I wanted him OUT! And then, he suddenly started tearing the league a new one...I'm just saying, can you imagine if Jay Zee loses his first six games this fall? I'm willing to be patient. Here's hoping the fan community can too.

I agree with everything here. (it was five lost ) I just remember everyones reaction when Gibbs was hired. The whole town said...WHO?

Well, now it's time to look forward and throw our support behind Zorn. The draft is quickly approaching and there are needs on this team that need to be met. He has an awful lot of work to do. He needs to assess the talent or lack there of and address it. If we're going to average more than 13 ppg then he has quickly formulate a plan of action. Him and Cerrato have to be on the same page as far as free agents and cuts, etc...He has his work cut out for him.

I hope for the Skins sake he's in the film room as I type this.

[smoak]

How does any of those facts discredit the argument of being thorough? Also, I think its safe to say the reporting on this has been less than reliable.

Again, I'm not saying they did or did not know exactly what they were doing. I'm just saying its a valid argument. Either way, we seem to be happy with the end result. If we stepped on a few toes to get there, who cares?

IMO, interviewing Gregg FOUR times and hiring a staff before a head coach shows complete lack of direction. I could care less about Fassel and his feelings, but we can't keep dumping on experienced NFL people... Our reputation around the league is suffering. I despised Norv more than anyone, but I never would have treated him that way. To me, you act with class at all times, and especially in times of adversity.

LOL! Christ, i thought the sky was falling when we DIDNT have an HC
Luckily I know redskins fans pretty well (being one), so I'm pretty prepared for the sky tone falling no matter what.


Yeah, Snyder has removed many a spine and disheartened some of our finest. gain, I like Zorn and I am axious to see the new OC and QB Coach, but Snyder botched this process terribly IMO.

[SkinsASchamps]

So the poll said "do you approve OR zorn?" So I figured yes went with approve and therefore no went with zorn. I wanted to vote zorn so I voted no. Anyway after sleeping I really like this decision and I love the process the redskins went through. We did a thorough job and followed all the rules. There were not a lot of great candidates out there. We wanted to get Spags to go with this coaching staff and had to wait but he wanted his own staff and didnt want to leave NY. So we didnt panic and go hire Fassell or Billick or someone, we kept the search going and hired a good coach (I hope). If the Giants didnt go to the superbowl then the search would not have taken so long. I dont have any problems with the way this was done. This is a big decision and in this time of immediate gratification media coverage we had to wait. Big Deal. Lets see how this turns out 5 years from now.

[BurnEm 26]

i was shocked just like everyone else.
however after thinking about it-probably a good move
being around holmgren he knows how to run a offense-saunders failed

defense and special teams are in good hands.

he will develop campbell and run a exciting offense.

if he lacks as hc-bring on cowher for 2009.

dalassuk::dance:
I do not see Cowher or anybody coming here next year after they way we handled this coaching process. Zorn has a 5 year contract. I can see him as a stop gap if he was hired in the first week of the coaching search but not after 30+ days.

This hire is on Vinnie who is chief decision maker for coaches, player personnel and everything Redskins. This was a long and calculating search and that is how they will spin it at the presser today. Vinnie goes as Zorn goes.

Our offense is not very good. I for one hope that Zorn gets 2-3 years to get this WCO going and the team get's younger through the draft.

Welcome Zorn. I hope you bring success to my team.

[Syllable]

Voted no, Zorn looks like a second decision and we just couldn't find anyone better.

[syphy]

We need a nickname...JZ? Jimmy Z? Jimmy the Z? Zorn To Be Wild? Sorry...it's late.




I think plain old Jim Zorn is fine. Gotta say it all the time like Bob Dole though.


Jim Zorn gets what Jim Zorn wants.

[fent]

Dan Snyder is evolving into a good owner. This hire indicates that perhaps he realizes he does not need to make huge offseason headlines to suceeed. The hiring of Jim Zorn will do this franchise proud. I am very optomistic about our season next year.
http://draftguru.googlepages.com/home

dude...cut the spam. i've seen your link to a bad mock about 15 times.

[warpaint]

excited here to have a fresh face as the h.c.,and not one of the retreads such as fassel, in my mind we the fans and the team deserved much more than fassel could have ever brought to the table. with zorn he brings hope and that's what it is all about,something to get us pumped for the season. how will zorn work out ?? only time will tell this but hopefully the use an old saying "the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree " zorn has come from a very successful tree and as stated gives us hope for better days to come.

[CNYSkinFan]

So what some of you are saying is that we on a message board and fans of a team who put our hard earned money following it have no right to criticize the coaching search because

a.) we don't absolutely know what is going on (though we have informed media reports and logic) and Zorn could have been the intended target all along

b.) We need to wait 5 years and see how Zorn pans out first.

ugh

Look I have alot of hope for Zorn but lets not pretend this coaching search wasn't a total and complete abortion of a process. I defy any of you supporting the search to come up with an example in recent memory of an NFL team going through what we did for the last month and then being succesful after it. I can't even think of one example where a team hired all it's coordinators before the HC, got turned down by many of their major choices, and then settled on one of the coordinaors as HC a month after the search began.

[Syllable]

So what some of you are saying is that we on a message board and fans of a team who put our hard earned money following it have no right to criticize the coaching search because

a.) we don't absolutely know what is going on (though we have informed media reports and logic) and Zorn could have been the intended target all along

b.) We need to wait 5 years and see how Zorn pans out first.

ugh

Look I have alot of hope for Zorn but lets not pretend this coaching search wasn't a total and complete abortion of a process. I defy any of you supporting the search to come up with an example in recent memory of an NFL team going through what we did for the last month and then being succesful after it. I can't even think of one example where a team hired all it's coordinators before the HC, got turned down by many of their major choices, and then settled on one of the coordinaors as HC a month after the search began.

I think it is more like 2 years to see if Zorn cracks the .500 mark.

[hogskins]

IMO, interviewing Gregg FOUR times and hiring a staff before a head coach shows complete lack of direction. I could care less about Fassel and his feelings, but we can't keep dumping on experienced NFL people... Our reputation around the league is suffering. I despised Norv more than anyone, but I never would have treated him that way. To me, you act with class at all times, and especially in times of adversity.




Yeah, Snyder has removed many a spine and disheartened some of our finest. gain, I like Zorn and I am anxious to see the new OC and QB Coach, but Snyder botched this process terribly IMO.

That's the bottom line. I am interested in seeing how Zorn performs, and, now that he's "the man", I hope that the Weasel-in-Chief gives him enough rope.

The FO has, and continues to be, a slow-motion train wreck. The organization made this decision out of desperation, obviously. Send your clown noses to Redskins Park now.

[syphy]

So what some of you are saying is that we on a message board and fans of a team who put our hard earned money following it have no right to criticize the coaching search because

a.) we don't absolutely know what is going on (though we have informed media reports and logic) and Zorn could have been the intended target all along

b.) We need to wait 5 years and see how Zorn pans out first.

ugh

Look I have alot of hope for Zorn but lets not pretend this coaching search wasn't a total and complete abortion of a process. I defy any of you supporting the search to come up with an example in recent memory of an NFL team going through what we did for the last month and then being succesful after it. I can't even think of one example where a team hired all it's coordinators before the HC, got turned down by many of their major choices, and then settled on one of the coordinaors as HC a month after the search began.


Dallas pretty much had their coaching staff in place for Wade and they were the #1 seed in the NFC.

Not that I support the way the coaching search was carried out, but it IS plausible that he became a candidate after being quite impressive in his interviewfor OC and being brought in the fold. We will never know. I'm willing to take it at face value and move on.

But what the hell, we have our guy, the search is over. We got a fresh face and pretty good football mind who comes from a solid system and coaching tree. His system will take great advantage of the speed we have at the skill player positions on offense, in my opinion.

I think it's time to stop griping about the interview process and move on now that we have our guy.

[warpaint]

Dallas pretty much had their coaching staff in place for Wade and they were the #1 seed in the NFC.

Not that I support the way the coaching search was carried out, but it IS plausible that he became a candidate after being quite impressive in his interviewfor OC and being brought in the fold. We will never know. I'm willing to take it at face value and move on.

But what the hell, we have our guy, the search is over. We got a fresh face and pretty good football mind who comes from a solid system and coaching tree. His system will take great advantage of the speed we have at the skill player positions on offense, in my opinion.

I think it's time to stop griping about the interview process and move on now that we have our guy.

i just hope we can avoid all the injuries it seems we have had past few years,
whats that word "luck" yeah dallas had new coach etc., but think they only had one player to miss almost the entire year .

[CNYSkinFan]

Dallas pretty much had their coaching staff in place for Wade and they were the #1 seed in the NFC.

Not that I support the way the coaching search was carried out, but it IS plausible that he became a candidate after being quite impressive in his interviewfor OC and being brought in the fold. We will never know. I'm willing to take it at face value and move on.

But what the hell, we have our guy, the search is over. We got a fresh face and pretty good football mind who comes from a solid system and coaching tree. His system will take great advantage of the speed we have at the skill player positions on offense, in my opinion.

I think it's time to stop griping about the interview process and move on now that we have our guy.
except for they did not make Garrett their HC. They stiull went with an experienced NFL guy.

And like it or not Dallas was a much more talented team with more cap room and a much better situation age wise then this team is.

Dallaas is not a real good comparison because of the major differences in the process. The only thing Wade did not have say on was OC, after that he was allowed to keep fire other coaches, and it was done withing a couple of weeks I think, maybe 1.

Zorn may be great, and I certainly hope he is, but he was the only girl that accepted our invite to the prom. To be expect that we are going to be crowned king and queen is a little unreasonable.

[smoak]

So is the PC @ 3 on NFL Network?

[LATrueRedskin]

So is the PC @ 3 on NFL Network?

When, today? I thought it would surely be on Monday.

[syphy]

except for they did not make Garrett their HC. They stiull went with an experienced NFL guy.

And like it or not Dallas was a much more talented team with more cap room and a much better situation age wise then this team is.

Dallaas is not a real good comparison because of the major differences in the process. The only thing Wade did not have say on was OC, after that he was allowed to keep fire other coaches, and it was done withing a couple of weeks I think, maybe 1.

Zorn may be great, and I certainly hope he is, but he was the only girl that accepted our invite to the prom. To be expect that we are going to be crowned king and queen is a little unreasonable.

No where did I say anything about being crowned king or queen. Having optimism about the hire, the system, and it's potential fit with our players is being unreasonable? You asked a question and I answered. Wade's staff was already there when he showed up and they performed well during the season. They choked in the long run but that's a different story.

I didn't really care for the way we went about things but griping about it isn't going to change anything. Time to let it go, it's water under the bridge now. Dwelling on junk like that just ages you prematurely. Jim Zorn is the coach and I'm somewhat excited about the type offense Jim Zorn brings and the way it works well with the speed guys we have. Hopefully Campbell picks it up quickly.

My concern is it takes (according to Holmgren) about 3 years for a QB to fully get his offense and for it to become second nature. Hopefully Snyder gives Jim Zorn these 3 years if he indeed ends up running Holmgren's system.

[NCskinsfanatic]

The PC is at 3pm today...I know it'll be on redskins radio and I'm sure there will be a video link on redskins.com.

[BandWagon]

The major advantage to having NOT jettisoned the entire staff is that your not loading that up on Zorn's shoulders as well. He's probably not networked enough to be able to develop a well rounded and championship class coaching staff. He's got a good support system to leverage. And that's the way it is in the real world too. I just took on a CEO position and took over a staff. Not to say I won't make changes in the future, but it would have been a nightmare to keep things going forward and trying to fill staff positions. It's a little different with football, but not hugely. It is a year-round business.

[LATrueRedskin]

The PC is at 3pm today...I know it'll be on redskins radio and I'm sure there will be a video link on redskins.com.

Thanks for the info, NC.

[oldskinfan]

Only time will tell, but if you read Zorn's bio on Redskins.com or his background in this WP article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902681.html

There are some very interesting parallels. Who knows if it will work out, but I wonder if Snyderato's strategy was influenced by these parallels and whether or not they asked for coach Joe's opinion. Given the faith-based charity work Zorn and his wife do, I would have to think coach Joe gave this thing a thumbs up.

Thoughts?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Gibbs was able to hire his own staff and called plays in his previous gig as OC. Zorn won't be able to hire his own staff and has never called plays. Zorn may one day be a successful HC, but it probably won't be in DC. I like the hire, but I already feel sorry for Zorn because of the situation he is in.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I am relieved that we didn't hire Fassel. I am still kind of in shock about the whole thing, I thought it would be a few more days.

[RedskinsDave]

Joe Gibbs was not hamstrung by Snyderrato in 1981. He was recently.

[RedskinsDave]

I wish we could find out what really happened but we'll never know. If Fassel did tell Snyderrato to eat it, he won't say so. There's a unwritten rule that coaches don't slam a team no matter how badly things go.

[FightforoldDC]

Zorn was a great choice. He has all the traits of a strong leader and an innovator.

Now, Snyder needs to buttress his instincts with patience. We have a lot to fix, including the offensive line, Dline/pass rush, and Jason -- who needs lots and lots of work.

[Fathead]

Other than the fact that I doubt that the fans or Snyder have the patience to let this work, I can't think of a single bad thing about this.

[greatest2]

the two are similar, the situations are pretty different

[BostonSkins]

Hopefully people can keep that in mind if Zorn gets off to a slow start like Gibbs did.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Hopefully people can keep that in mind if Zorn gets off to a slow start like Gibbs did.

Hopefully Danny can keep that in mind.

Actually, hopefully Danny and Vinny join Jack, Locke, Kate, and the others on the Island.

[thehogs11]

Who is going to be the offense coord?

[Lavar703]

For some reason i really wanted to see Meeks get the job, the work he has done with Bob Sanders and Antoine Bethea was amazing, would have liked to have seen Landry get to work with him. Im still not pissed off at the Zorn hire, he should have the fire to prove himself and he takes over a team with a load of talent on both sides of the ball. Im not going to think about him failing at this, i have already convinced myself that its going to work out wonderfully, I have always been a big fan of Blache and thought he had more to do with the success of our D than anyone else. I wonder how this changes the outlook of our draft and if we will pick up a RB thats more suited for the west coast offense. Im not saying we replace Portis but we must replace Betts as his primary back up, he doesnt fit this style of offense and maybe we draft someone like Mike Hart.

[44FAN]

Who is going to be the offense coord?
Why do we need one?

[TrueOracle]

Accepted and my own apologies if I misunderstood.

Was there any candidate that you wanted and if you don't mind, who was it?

Just wondering.



I wanted Meeks. Experience, SB victory, Coordinator, young, and from the Dungy family tree. I also wanted to see Grimm get a shot at it. I mean, how is it that Russ doesn't even get a nod for an interview? Our FO is B-movie constantly and I'm really sick of it. I'm more bewildered by the process than the choice. I've liked Zorn since his days in Seattle as a QB. Not sure about his OC capabilities but I may have been less perturbed if the decision was made to go with him from the get-go. Russ not even being interviewed while Fassel was the "leading candidate" tells me the process can be graded as a C- at best. And if we experience growing pains that keep us from the playoffs this year I'll call it an F-. We just didn't have to bet the farm yet we did.

Truthfully, it's all relative. I thought Spags was a stretch since this was his first year at the helm as a D-Coord and his D wasn't really all the consistent. Played when it counted but not a force to be reckoned with or feared. Obviously I want JZ to do wonders. I just don't think we should've bet the house on him when we really didn't have to a la Meeks & Grimm.

I like to gamble when I'm playing with house money and we were doing just that before Snyderatto jumped up and yelled, "All in B$%#&#. Put your money where it ain't funny!!" Now, let's see what everyone else is holdin'.

[shally]

Only time will tell, but if you read Zorn's bio on Redskins.com or his background in this WP article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/09/AR2008020902681.html

There are some very interesting parallels. Who knows if it will work out, but I wonder if Snyderato's strategy was influenced by these parallels and whether or not they asked for coach Joe's opinion. Given the faith-based charity work Zorn and his wife do, I would have to think coach Joe gave this thing a thumbs up.

Thoughts?

a huge stretch and only time will tell

but i think that cerrato and snyder felt that zorn would be one year and gone (the way marv lewis was) on his way to becoming a head coach and decided that zorn was the one they really wanted to keep long term. so they acted

had they gone with someone like fassel or mooch, it would have been very messy to elevate zorn over them after just 1 year (kind of the problem that jerry jones now has with wade being on the hotseat)

[hail2skins]

No need for multiple Zorn threads.

[LATrueRedskin]

Why do we need one?

Because Zorn is going to need some help installing his offense. He's the only one on the current staff with a West-Coast background. It would be imperative that he has someone to help him teach it and explain the ins-and-outs to the rest of the coaches and the players. A coordinator would be absolutely huge to have on gamedays as well.

[skinfanjon]

So what some of you are saying is that we on a message board and fans of a team who put our hard earned money following it have no right to criticize the coaching search because

a.) we don't absolutely know what is going on (though we have informed media reports and logic) and Zorn could have been the intended target all along
b.) We need to wait 5 years and see how Zorn pans out first.

ugh

Look I have alot of hope for Zorn but lets not pretend this coaching search wasn't a total and complete abortion of a process. I defy any of you supporting the search to come up with an example in recent memory of an NFL team going through what we did for the last month and then being succesful after it. I can't even think of one example where a team hired all it's coordinators before the HC, got turned down by many of their major choices, and then settled on one of the coordinaors as HC a month after the search began.

Nowhere did I say or imply any of this. If you don't want to debate my points, fine, but don't mischaracterize my argument. You're better than this.

[shally]

Why do we need one?

too much on one plate

besides, it is always good to have someone in the box upstairs who is familiar with zorns offense to guide play calling

[CNYSkinFan]

Nowhere did I say or imply any of this. If you don't want to debate my points, fine, but don't mischaracterize my argument. You're better than this.
I am sorry....did i quote you? I think you are getting a little too sensitive.

And your points are what? We don't know what happened and this could be a good hire. I am pretty sure I summed them up just fine. You want to give Snyderrato the benefit of the doubt for some reason...fine. But the resty of us don't have to. We have burned several times and seen their ineptitude, including this last coaching search which was blatently flawed from start to finish.

So preach on about second chances all you want. As I count it Snyder and Cerrato have had 7 chances (2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007) to get it right and nothing has changed...actually it has gotten worse.

[hail2skins]

Nowhere did I say or imply any of this. If you don't want to debate my points, fine, but don't mischaracterize my argument. You're better than this.I think you need to re-read his post. He didn't quote anyone in particular and stated "so some of you".

[shally]

I am sorry....did i quote you? I think you are getting a little too sensitive.

And your points are what? We don't know what happened and this could be a good hire. I am pretty sure I summed them up just fine. You want to give Snyderrato the benefit of the doubt for some reason...fine. But the resty of us don't have to. We have burned several times and seen their ineptitude, including this last coaching search which was blatently flawed from start to finish.

So preach on about second chances all you want. As I count it Snyder and Cerrato have had 7 chances (2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007) to get it right and nothing has changed...actually it has gotten worse.

i dont think it has gotten worse.. we have been to the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 years and have a team that is pretty solid overall. if we have a good offseason in the draft and free agency we should be competitve next year

i fully expect there will be some growing pains with a first time HC, but i dont see us as being one of the bottom third teams next year.

[skinfanjon]

I am sorry....did i quote you? I think you are getting a little too sensitive.

Considering I was the only one debating you, its pretty obvious who you were talking about.

And your points are what? We don't know what happened and this could be a good hire. I am pretty sure I summed them up just fine. You want to give Snyderrato the benefit of the doubt for some reason...fine. But the resty of us don't have to. We have burned several times and seen their ineptitude, including this last coaching search which was blatently flawed from start to finish.

My argument is very cearly stated on the previous page and its not summed up by this elementary phrase you wrote above. I'm not trying to force anyone to believe anything, just offering a different point of view. Yours is the argument that has no latitude for conflicting points of view, not mine. If you don't agree, fine, no worries. And your last sentence is precisely what we're debating.

So preach on about second chances all you want. As I count it Snyder and Cerrato have had 7 chances (2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007) to get it right and nothing has changed...actually it has gotten worse.

And I disagree. Anyway, I'm not trying to get into a big deal with you man, I just didn't care for you completely transforming my argument. If you were alking about someone else, then my apologies,but it seemed obvious enough to me.

[skinfanjon]

I think you need to re-read his post. He didn't quote anyone in particular and stated "so some of you".

Fair enough, but I'm the only one he's been going back and forth with these past few pages. Again, my apologies if I wasn't the target.

[OCSkinzFan]

Not sure if you guys have seen this one.

Here are some highlights:

Jim Zorn, new head coach, will be calling plays, directing the offense, working hands on with Jason Campbell as the primary voice directing the young QB....

Zorn got a five-year deal, in essence, but league sources said it is actually three years guaranteed with two club options after that....

League sources believe the Redskins will try to get Tennessee assistant Sherman Smith to be the OC under Zorn, but Smith recently signed a three-year contract, and there will have to be some talks between the Skins and Titans about that...

Zorn is also expected to hire a younger, cheaper coach to be an assistant QB coach or sorts, league sources said, perhaps someone in the college ranks right now....

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

[shally]

Not sure if you guys have seen this one.

Here are some highlights:



http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/

saw that

towards the end jason also talks about how the front office balked at byner when he went in to sign his 1 year deal.. they want stump mitchell from the hawks to be RB coach and for byner to get a deal from seattle.. very strange goings on

what exactly did byner do that so go the front office on his case ? i can understand that lazor would be the odd man out because zorn is himself a qb coach, but what about byner ? what did he do ?

[CNYSkinFan]

i dont think it has gotten worse.. we have been to the playoffs 2 out of the past 3 years and have a team that is pretty solid overall. if we have a good offseason in the draft and free agency we should be competitve next year

i fully expect there will be some growing pains with a first time HC, but i dont see us as being one of the bottom third teams next year.
I was addressing the front office situation. And I give complete credit to Gibbs for those playoff seasons. And I am truly afraid that without him we are in serious medicrityville yet again.

[thehogs11]

Why do we need one?

To help out with the team. Every team has one or two.

[shally]

I was addressing the front office situation. And I give complete credit to Gibbs for those playoff seasons. And I am truly afraid that without him we are in serious medicrityville yet again.

i see your point

at least we now have clear lines of command and responsibility.. and yes, i give gibbs credit for those 2 playoff years (along with the 2 non playoff years and the personnel misfires)

i think we might end up being 8-8 next year. but i dont think we are going to go 5-11 or worse.

my hope is that we see another scenario like the saints pulled when they went from 3-13 to the playoffs in 1 year under payton. no reason why the skins cannot duplicate that trajectory because i think we are starting with a far better team-- except at qb. that will be where zorn really has to earn his salary this coming year...

[Jon Creveling]

Initial thought is I like the odd-ball hire, the guy will be hard to judge, not only for us fans but the opposition! Can't realy prejudge him like many would have if it was anyone of the others mentioned. If it was Cowher out of a hat I would have doubted his motive and fire, sure we all know his track record with Pitt. and what he brings to the table, but it was an open question to me what he would bring as far as it relates to our Redskins. Fassel I've said all along I would have been open minded to, and maybe truth be told we would have been in better shape now if they hired him 4 yrs ago, but this search I was kinda lukewarm on him. The Mooch I was never realy hot on, comes off to me as wish/washy, used car salesmanish. That's not to say I was fully against Mooch, wins could win me over:). N.J. wonder boy Spags and his meteoric rise as a candidate was off set in my mind by the line he inherited via Ernie, the lack of credit even by some Jints fans for Counghlin and Eli suddenly getting his 'S' in order, btw that call out by Jints Gm Reese post Minn. game was seen as an issued warning by some of the better Giants fans that I know. I realy didn't like the disrespect shown Collins at 16W either, sure we are talking only 8 completions in combo with our O-line playing their best game of the year IMO, but is that realy the guy we wanted as h.c.? Moral of the story is you can talk yourself out of anything or for that matter any hire. Said all along I was going to be open minded to the hire (even based on the Who) so for now until I see otherwise I plan on watching the news conference in a few minutes and enjoying it for what it is.

[Skins7ny]

So the new hires under Snyderato have been:

Zorn....no experience as OC or HC...and now he is both.

Palermo....out of football for a year, little nfl experience, last job at a glorifiec community college program...and he is the dl coach, the area most needing improvement.
Where's Akh and the bourbon?
Is anyone else disturbed by the stories coming out that Greg Blache had a coach who he wanted as his right-hand man to coach the DL, but that Vinny was pushing Palermo, his guy from Notre Dame? I thought that Blache had the leverage to get who he wanted, coach-wise and player-wise. I think he should let Blache have a guy he is comfortable with, instead of paying back favors Vinny owes guys from some place other than DC and/or foisting on the DC a guy that he can work with but the DC cannot. Maybe Palermo will be Vinny and Dan's spy in the defensive meetings.
Well I am officially on the fence because I am not sure of what Zorn brings at all. He definitely is a blank slate, and I wil judge him on wins and wins alone.....

What I can tell you is I disapprove whole heartedly at the amazingly amateurish way this entire process has played out.
Agreed. Even if Zorn turns out to be a great coach, this thing was handled sloppily. Dan has been in the league 10 years and has hired more than his share of head coaches. Vinny has been in the NFL even longer. When can we expect to have our franchise stop looking as though it is run by a bunch of clowns?
agree with all your points. just wondering how long it takes for his offense to get going. i mean, wasn't hassleback benched his second year or something. i know the west coast offense is mad hard, and i look forward to us when we master it, but i don't know if the FO will pull the rug out right before we are about to break out in year 3 or what will happen
If they were going to be patient enough to wait 3 years for the WCO to take root, Al Saunders would still be our OC. Saunders' system is supposed to take 2 years to take root, and the argument could be made strongly that he never really had a chance under Gibbs to implement his system.
Regardless of whether you agree with this point, I think we would have to say that the odds of the WCO not succeeding for 2 years and getting a 3rd are slim and none.
Comeback? i thought you would get a kick out of it. Oh well.

did anyone catch Gibbs remarks in the espn article. That man can spin gold from twine. He was talking about how the skins kept their continuity with all these hires and moves. BUt from the article, well this guy seems positive and ready, so lets support him. Also, he said he is going to retool the Offense to match his WCO. SO looks like Campbell better learn to get the ball out quickly and throw the ball ahead of his receivers on those slants and ins.
I can't help but thinking that Gibbs, for reasons of his own, is providing major cover for the Danny. I love how Danny gratuitously inserted Gibbs into his explanation for "falling in love" with Zorn. ("I called Gibbs and said, this guy could be a head coach in the league").
That is why I put "perception" in bold. I don't think the media speculation is any more accurate than us assuming the candidates weren/t offfered the position. Remember it seemed that they had terms in place with Fassell... That was widely reported. It'll be interesting to see if he makes a comment to the media as one article reported a "source" close to him was quoted saying that Jim felt manipulated. Also, I agree we really strung GW along IMO. Hate or love him, nobody deserves to get pulled through the cleaner like that. He has been here FOUR years and you need four interviews to fire him??? I'd be livid.
Again, I am pleasantly surprised with Zorn, but IMO we look like idiots. Pure idiots. Again I don't know what transpired, but it looks like we couldn't pay people to take this job.
There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. We keep picking the wrong way. Whatever you think of any of the coaches involved, it is clear that we have not treated them professionally. The price we pay is that, when there is someone we really want, such as perhaps Spagnuolo, people around the league tell that person not to touch us with a 10-foot pole.

Clearly, Danny was caught by surprise by the JG resignation (don't know why, the possibility has been kicked around since he came back. That is another example of why we needed/need a GM, someone professional who can be the steward of the long-term interests of the franchise. A professional GM would have a list in his desk of all the head coaching and assistant coaching candidates he would call if something unforseen happens, including the sudden resignation, death or incapacity of a head coach or assistant.
...I am with you all the way, in that this process took way too long and it was obvious that indecision was a huge problem but I like this decision because it is such a gamble. It also shows that despite the indecision that went on with the process, Snyder was willing to make a pick that wasn't safe or insulating to himself and Vinny. This was not a pick that the fans wanted, nor was it a safe pick of a proven candidate. This is a gamble and the same goes for Zorn. He has to prove himself. He has no pre-built appreciation from this fanbase, he will solely be judged on what he accomplishes.

How can you not love that?

My only concern is that Snyderatto does not have the necessary patience with him.
I will agree with you here. This is not a safe choice than will insulate Dan or Vinny from criticism, and I give them both credit for that. If it works and the Skins go 11-5 next year, Dan and Vinny will deserve and get a lot of credit, and most people will overlook the last 32 days of stupidity and the classless treatment we gave some of the candidates.
I will also watch closely, to the extent any of us can watch or know, to see that Dan and Vinny give Zorn the room to do his job without interference. That is what I am most skeptical about. I am also glad that (presumably) our offensive coordinator or QB coach will be selected by our Head Coach, not by our owner/exec VP. But see the Blache issue above.
Ok it's way past my bedtime, but here's the big question always for me.

Is this a good move from a Player's stand point?

One of the round table guys on Comcast (I think) was asking this question:

"When Zorn needs to get in the Player's faces (to correct them) are they going to respect a guy with no experience at this higher level of Coaching?"
I thought that was a fair question....
Zorn does not seem like a "get in your face" coach. He seems to be a lot like Tony Dungy, an x's and o's guy who commands respect from his players from working hard, having played the game in the NFL and from being direct and honest with his players and treating them like men.
IMO they should look at Sherman Smith, Tennessee Titans. Zorn and Smith played together in Seattle and are good friends.
There are already rumors afoot that Smith is going to be a prime candidate for the job. Somewhere, I have a Sherman Smith football card I will have to dig out from around 1980. Zorn, too.
Except those toes are our reputation and standing in the league...

and if you think that does not matter, then wait until FA and we need to throw a uhaul full of money at a guy to come here when he will go to NY or Dallas for less and a chance at a ring.
Or a coach like Spagnuolo. Yes, some guys will just go where the money is the highest, and we outbid everyone. But I think we have seen that sometimes guys who just want your money are bad choices for you. The Zorn hiring might be a sign that Danny and Vinny have learned this lesson.
I'm pretty happy. I wanted a young guy, with some energy and fresh ideas, and I've always liked Jim, going back to the time when he and Largent were fresh faced kids on a plucky expansion team. It's not hard to imagine him having a profound, positive impact on Jason Campbell.

I like Mariucchi and Fassell, and I think each got a raw deal in previous stops, but I really don't want to see either of them in Washington. We've done that before, with Schottenheimer and other "name" guys like Spurrier and I haven't liked the results.

Those two potential hires were essentially the coaching versions of some of the FA signings we've seen in that same time frame, namely for guys who have big names but are on the downhill side of their careers. This seems like a much better idea.

I'm also very relieved Mora didn't wind up with the job. I don't think much of that guy's level of committment or his style of play, which is too much like his old man's (i.e., trying more not to lose than to win.)
Couldn't agree with you more. I am very happy that Mora did not get the job. He is not mature or circumspect enough to be a good head coach in the league. A good leader has to know when to keep his mouth shut, and Mora has been incapable of that in the past.
IMO, interviewing Gregg FOUR times and hiring a staff before a head coach shows complete lack of direction. I could care less about Fassel and his feelings, but we can't keep dumping on experienced NFL people... Our reputation around the league is suffering. I despised Norv more than anyone, but I never would have treated him that way. To me, you act with class at all times, and especially in times of adversity.
Yeah, Snyder has removed many a spine and disheartened some of our finest. gain, I like Zorn and I am axious to see the new OC and QB Coach, but Snyder botched this process terribly IMO.
Agreed on all counts. The only time in 10 years that Snyder has made me proud on the class meter was during the Sean Taylor tragedy. I give him a lot of credit for that, but it seems he is going back to his old tacticts of treating people like dog meat and using the media to play games with people.
...Zorn may be great, and I certainly hope he is, but he was the only girl that accepted our invite to the prom. To be expect that we are going to be crowned king and queen is a little unreasonable.
Let's hope he puts out.
a huge stretch and only time will tell but i think that cerrato and snyder felt that zorn would be one year and gone (the way marv lewis was) on his way to becoming a head coach and decided that zorn was the one they really wanted to keep long term. so they acted
had they gone with someone like fassel or mooch, it would have been very messy to elevate zorn over them after just 1 year (kind of the problem that jerry jones now has with wade being on the hotseat)
Got to disagree with you here, my friend. This is pure speculation. No one had talked about Zorn as offensive coordinator material before we sniffed around him, let alone head coach material. There were no other OC positions available for 2008 besides ours. If Danny/Vinny think we will light up the league offensively so much that Zorn will be gone in 2009, that is very optimistic thinking.

[OCSKINSFAN]

i see your point

at least we now have clear lines of command and responsibility.. and yes, i give gibbs credit for those 2 playoff years (along with the 2 non playoff years and the personnel misfires)

i think we might end up being 8-8 next year. but i dont think we are going to go 5-11 or worse.

my hope is that we see another scenario like the saints pulled when they went from 3-13 to the playoffs in 1 year under payton. no reason why the skins cannot duplicate that trajectory because i think we are starting with a far better team-- except at qb. that will be where zorn really has to earn his salary this coming year...

Unfortuanately for next year's record, the Skins play in the NFC East and will have 6 games against the Cowboys (best record in the NFC), Giants (SB winner), and Eagles (a team that was playing as well as anyone in the NFC at the end of the season and which should have their QB healthy). On the other hand, the Skins will likely not be as motivated as at the end of the 07 season, and will have a new head coach with an entirely new offense. In my view, 8-8 would be quite an acheivement.

[akhhorus]

Unfortuanately for next year's record, the Skins play in the NFC East and will have 6 games against the Cowboys (best record in the NFC), Giants (SB winner), and Eagles (a team that was playing as well as anyone in the NFC at the end of the season and which should have their QB healthy). On the other hand, the Skins will likely not be as motivated as at the end of the 07 season, and will have a new head coach with an entirely new offense. In my view, 8-8 would be quite an acheivement.

We went 3-3 against them last season(and should have been 6-0), McNugget was healthy against us, dallas was 13-3 and the Giants are the SB champs. I think that we handled them pretty well and lost because of some bad coaching decisions.

[Lacquer Head]

In Zorn we trust!!!...

Eh, it could grown on ya.

I said I didn't want Fassell and I meant it, so I'm happy. We can't hate on the guy until we give him a shot to show us what he's capable of.

This.

You can't throw a guy under the bus before he even has assembled a staff!

[IowaSkinsFan]

It's a bold move because it is not the safe move. The only other choice that Snyder had, IMO, was Meeks. But the fact that we desperately needed and offensive minded coach tilted the scales in Zorn's favor, IMO.

[IowaSkinsFan]

This.

You can't throw a guy under the bus before he even has assembled a staff!

By assembling a staff you mean hiring an offensive coordinator, right?

[redskin_rich]

By assembling a staff you mean hiring an offensive coordinator, right?

There are a few positions that are empty right now: OC, QB coach and probably RB coach. Zorn will bring in at least 2 new guys on the offensive staff in the upcoming days.

[CNYSkinFan]

There are a few positions that are empty right now: OC, QB coach and probably RB coach. Zorn will bring in at least 2 new guys on the offensive staff in the upcoming days.
Byner is the rb coach, he just signed an extension after Zorn was OC....maybe a couple of offensive assistants though

[HAWGZHEAD]

Byner is the rb coach, he just signed an extension after Zorn was OC....maybe a couple of offensive assistants though
Ther was a link in your thread about Byner that said he didn't sign the contract according to JLC.

[Lacquer Head]

By assembling a staff I mean having a complete staff assembled. There's nothing more or less to it.

I haven't been following this every day so I don't know who we have/don't have from one moment to the next.

On topic, I approve of Zorn because he has the greatest name of any coach in the NFL.

[PennSkinsFan]

Byner is the rb coach, he just signed an extension after Zorn was OC....maybe a couple of offensive assistants though

They actually made it sound like that the Redskins backed and did not sign Byner at the last minute. Seems they are interested in Stump Mitchell from SEA, so it sounds like Zorn wants Mitchell over Byner.

[silverspring]

Complete joke of a front office...Joke i tell you

You know I am surprised you are so outraged. I agree that the FO handled things pretty clumsily but then again it wasn't an easy situation. People are talking about how long it took them to fill the job, 34 days i think. But with my experience hiring an executive position can take a long time, particularly when you are caught off guard. By all accounts, gibbs stepping down was a big surprise. I think if cowher was available the hire would have taken a new york second, but he wasn't and there was no other clear cut option.

Without cowher there as the obvious choice what was danny suppose to do. I think there was a lot of indecision in the process, but sometimes that can't be avoided if there is no obvious choice. Who was he suppose to hire?

Spags- As far as i can tell snyder was very interested in spags but spags was using us as leverage and it was hard to leave his current job where he will most likely inherit the HC.

GW-I would have been happy with him, but you made it well known that this choice would have sent you straight to the bottle. It is hard to say why GW didn't get the job because it seems as though snyder gave him every opportunity to do so. Maybe the rumours about him bad mouthing gibbs during the interview are true.

Fassel- Snyder obviously likes fassel but just like everyone on this board i am sure he recognized the big question marks.

Mooch- Same deal as fassel, maybe a sexy hire but he has a lot of question marks.

Meeks-I thought this was a viable option but i don't really know that much about meeks. It doesn't sound as if we are the only club passing on him, so again some question marks.

So who should he have hired? Who was available that you would have snatched up cleanly at the beginning of the process and allowed to choose all his staff?
I can't really think of anyone. I liked the idea of Grimm, but it was the idea i liked more than anything. Grimm has been passed up before as well, so again question marks.

In terms of hiring the staff before the coach. Well I don't like this but again think about the alternatives? What would have happened to his options if he waited until today? It sounded as if Zorn was a really popular choice to be an offensive coordinator in the league. He could have easily been snatched up. I think Blache was the right move, our defense could improve but it wasn't our weakest spot. Blache will keep continuity here.

So yeah it was a sloppy affair, the FO showed their indecision and they may have offended two guys (fassel and GW). But other than hiring GW outright I don't see a way around this. I could care less if we pissed of fassel and in the end it really doesn't matter because snyder's money will always trump what people think of our front office. I am not trying to defend them, but when you think about the alternatives i don't see a bunch of obviously better options. Do you?


And yes clearly Vinny is putting his fingerprints all over this. But that is the job of the GM and that is who vinny is. If someone else was the GM i would assume they would bring their guys in also. None of us really like Vinny but he is the GM now and i assume he is going to be very involved that is the job role.

[PennSkinsFan]

You know I am surprised you are so outraged. I agree that the FO handled things pretty clumsily but then again it wasn't an easy situation. People are talking about how long it took them to fill the job, 34 days i think. But with my experience hiring an executive position can take a long time, particularly when you are caught off guard. By all accounts, gibbs stepping down was a big surprise. I think if cowher was available the hire would have taken a new york second, but he wasn't and there was no other clear cut option.

Without cowher there as the obvious choice what was danny suppose to do. I think there was a lot of indecision in the process, but sometimes that can't be avoided if there is no obvious choice. Who was he suppose to hire?

Spags- As far as i can tell snyder was very interested in spags but spags was using us as leverage and it was hard to leave his current job where he will most likely inherit the HC.

GW-I would have been happy with him, but you made it well known that this choice would have sent you straight to the bottle. It is hard to say why GW didn't get the job because it seems as though snyder gave him every opportunity to do so. Maybe the rumours about him bad mouthing gibbs during the interview are true.

Fassel- Snyder obviously likes fassel but just like everyone on this board i am sure he recognized the big question marks.

Mooch- Same deal as fassel, maybe a sexy hire but he has a lot of question marks.

Meeks-I thought this was a viable option but i don't really know that much about meeks. It doesn't sound as if we are the only club passing on him, so again some question marks.

So who should he have hired? Who was available that you would have snatched up cleanly at the beginning of the process and allowed to choose all his staff?
I can't really think of anyone. I liked the idea of Grimm, but it was the idea i liked more than anything. Grimm has been passed up before as well, so again question marks.

In terms of hiring the staff before the coach. Well I don't like this but again think about the alternatives? What would have happened to his options if he waited until today? It sounded as if Zorn was a really popular choice to be an offensive coordinator in the league. He could have easily been snatched up. I think Blache was the right move, our defense could improve but it wasn't our weakest spot. Blache will keep continuity here.

So yeah it was a sloppy affair, the FO showed their indecision and they may have offended two guys (fassel and GW). But other than hiring GW outright I don't see a way around this. I could care less if we pissed of fassel and in the end it really doesn't matter because snyder's money will always trump what people think of our front office. I am not trying to defend them, but when you think about the alternatives i don't see a bunch of obviously better options. Do you?


And yes clearly Vinny is putting his fingerprints all over this. But that is the job of the GM and that is who vinny is. If someone else was the GM i would assume they would bring their guys in also. None of us really like Vinny but he is the GM now and i assume he is going to be very involved that is the job role.

Nice write up. And from what JLC said in his blog, it seems the Redskins also thought Spags was not ready to be a HC. There is more than meets the eye.

As for GW, I am glad he is gone. Why? because obviously Snyder was not comfortable with him and you can not have a HC and an Owner that don't get along or you have a recipe for disaster. Such is life.

Cowher would not have worked. Snyder will not do a Marty type arrangement again and Cowher would come here for nothing less. Not a match with the type of owner we have.

Mooch. If your gonna go with Mooch, then go with Fassel, because Snyder was obviously very comfortable with Fassel.

Meeks. Listen, we did not sit in the interview so I have no idea how they evaluated candidates and such. He may be a good coach and a great guy but he may just not have excited Snyder and the brass. It happens.

Zorn. Fact is this. He is young, energetic, has gotten so much kudos for being an upcoming offensive brain. Maybe we found your new Joe Gibbs. Maybe we didn't. But ya know what, the ride with Zorn is going to be more exciting than it would have been with Fassel.

In essence, for me, I like the Zorn choice.

[IowaSkinsFan]

They actually made it sound like that the Redskins backed and did not sign Byner at the last minute. Seems they are interested in Stump Mitchell from SEA, so it sounds like Zorn wants Mitchell over Byner.

Why wouldn't he? That's one of the perks of being a head coach, picking your own assistants. Then there's the offensive familiarity and so forth. No problem at all with this move.

[oldskinfan]

what exactly did byner do that so go the front office on his case ?

Given the 31 gallons of ice cream story from Norv Turner days, I can see Danny boy still stewing over Skins vs. Giants #1 where Betts was in on the last series and ended up getting stuffed - Giants winning by TD. If you remember there was a lot of finger-pointing about who decided what on that drive, as far as the role Portis vs. Betts. In the end, the O-Line did not do the job and that's why Betts was stuffed, but Byner took a lot of heat for that, which Joe Gibbs later deflected to himself.

[skinfanjon]

You know I am surprised you are so outraged. I agree that the FO handled things pretty clumsily but then again it wasn't an easy situation. People are talking about how long it took them to fill the job, 34 days i think. But with my experience hiring an executive position can take a long time, particularly when you are caught off guard. By all accounts, gibbs stepping down was a big surprise. I think if cowher was available the hire would have taken a new york second, but he wasn't and there was no other clear cut option.

Without cowher there as the obvious choice what was danny suppose to do. I think there was a lot of indecision in the process, but sometimes that can't be avoided if there is no obvious choice. Who was he suppose to hire?

Spags- As far as i can tell snyder was very interested in spags but spags was using us as leverage and it was hard to leave his current job where he will most likely inherit the HC.

GW-I would have been happy with him, but you made it well known that this choice would have sent you straight to the bottle. It is hard to say why GW didn't get the job because it seems as though snyder gave him every opportunity to do so. Maybe the rumours about him bad mouthing gibbs during the interview are true.

Fassel- Snyder obviously likes fassel but just like everyone on this board i am sure he recognized the big question marks.

Mooch- Same deal as fassel, maybe a sexy hire but he has a lot of question marks.

Meeks-I thought this was a viable option but i don't really know that much about meeks. It doesn't sound as if we are the only club passing on him, so again some question marks.

So who should he have hired? Who was available that you would have snatched up cleanly at the beginning of the process and allowed to choose all his staff?
I can't really think of anyone. I liked the idea of Grimm, but it was the idea i liked more than anything. Grimm has been passed up before as well, so again question marks.

In terms of hiring the staff before the coach. Well I don't like this but again think about the alternatives? What would have happened to his options if he waited until today? It sounded as if Zorn was a really popular choice to be an offensive coordinator in the league. He could have easily been snatched up. I think Blache was the right move, our defense could improve but it wasn't our weakest spot. Blache will keep continuity here.

So yeah it was a sloppy affair, the FO showed their indecision and they may have offended two guys (fassel and GW). But other than hiring GW outright I don't see a way around this. I could care less if we pissed of fassel and in the end it really doesn't matter because snyder's money will always trump what people think of our front office. I am not trying to defend them, but when you think about the alternatives i don't see a bunch of obviously better options. Do you?


And yes clearly Vinny is putting his fingerprints all over this. But that is the job of the GM and that is who vinny is. If someone else was the GM i would assume they would bring their guys in also. None of us really like Vinny but he is the GM now and i assume he is going to be very involved that is the job role.

*applause*

[redskin_rich]

Given the 31 gallons of ice cream story from Norv Turner days, I can see Danny boy still stewing over Skins vs. Giants #1 where Betts was in on the last series and ended up getting stuffed - Giants winning by TD. If you remember there was a lot of finger-pointing about who decided what on that drive, as far as the role Portis vs. Betts. In the end, the O-Line did not do the job and that's why Betts was stuffed, but Byner took a lot of heat for that, which Joe Gibbs later deflected to himself.

I forgot about that but you are right. It supposedly was Byner that made the call to put Betts in and run that play. And you are correct that the O-line failed but Betts wasn't tackled, he tripped on the last play. The play before that, Betts made an inside cut and failed to get in. Bottom line, Betts sucks as a goal line runner. Was it Byner's decision that Betts be in on that series? I think so, if I remember correctly.
Don't get me wrong, I love Byner and what he did for our team but I can't resist pointing out the fact that he was responsible for costing Cleveland a Super Bowl appearance, by choking near the goal line and possibly gave new life to the current SB Champs by making a horrible decision.

[EddieAlbania]

??? Not according to the stats I just checked?

I've ALWAYS said that I love marginally talented players as coaches, and while I don't remember Zorn really, he only had one year that I would call "good" statistically speaking. I'm guessing he fits my mold. :D

I admit to being misinformed on this one. I'd always been under the impression that Zorn came from Dallas to Seattle in the expansion draft; however, I checked the NFL HOF site, and I clearly see he's not on that list.

[shally]

I admit to being misinformed on this one. I'd always been under the impression that Zorn came from Dallas to Seattle in the expansion draft; however, I checked the NFL HOF site, and I clearly see he's not on that list.

might have been largent ?? i think he came out of oklahoma and might have been a cowboy for a brief period of time ????

edit.. not largent either.. drafted by the oilers out of tulsa and then traded to seattle

maybe you are thinking of jimmy smith who WAS drafted by the cowboys and after a few years was allowed to be drafted by the jaguars in the dispersal draft used to create the new franchise...

[Emmanouel8]

Have to start by saying what a pitiful hiring process the FO orchestrated.

The process was too slow, "secret," and in my opnion limited.

The stone I wished they had at least turned over once was Russ Grimm's. Fassel, Mariucci, Mora, Schwartz, Carroll and Meeks, but not Grimm?! Would it have killed anyone to interview the guy. What on earth did they see in everyone else that they didn't in Grimm?

In 24 hours since the news however I have grown a little more fond of and intrigued by Zorn. Maybe it's they're amazing PR people at it once again.

I wish this group all the best, I will still cheer for the burgandy gold but with my wallet in the front pocket until I see some consistent results.

[smave]

i actually like the move

excited to see what moves he does

[CNYSkinFan]

Jim Fassel was just on Mike & Mike and he was very complimentary towards Dan. Very disapointed obviously. 2 things that I toook note of in his interview. 1.) he was notified before they announced Zorn. 2.) He was very instrumental in the hiring of Zorn and called him the day after the hireto talk to him about strategy and personnel with the assumption he was going to be HC.

[dogfight6]

Voted NO, since when are we the team that no one wants to coach, at one time the Redskins was considered a choice job now they say no and we hire our 10th choice.

[Poindexter]

I approve this move only if Zorn stays in Washington longer than 6 years. Lets build some consistency.

[bergiemoore]

Nice write up. And from what JLC said in his blog, it seems the Redskins also thought Spags was not ready to be a HC. There is more than meets the eye.

As for GW, I am glad he is gone. Why? because obviously Snyder was not comfortable with him and you can not have a HC and an Owner that don't get along or you have a recipe for disaster. Such is life.

Cowher would not have worked. Snyder will not do a Marty type arrangement again and Cowher would come here for nothing less. Not a match with the type of owner we have.

Mooch. If your gonna go with Mooch, then go with Fassel, because Snyder was obviously very comfortable with Fassel.

Meeks. Listen, we did not sit in the interview so I have no idea how they evaluated candidates and such. He may be a good coach and a great guy but he may just not have excited Snyder and the brass. It happens.

Zorn. Fact is this. He is young, energetic, has gotten so much kudos for being an upcoming offensive brain. Maybe we found your new Joe Gibbs. Maybe we didn't. But ya know what, the ride with Zorn is going to be more exciting than it would have been with Fassel.

In essence, for me, I like the Zorn choice.

I agree with much of this. I think that Danny was very positive about Meeks. He made a point of mentioning Meeks whenever anybody asked him about the "leading candidate", Fassel. The problem with Meeks, I believe, wasn't Meeks himself, but rather the situation that Danny had already created by hiring Blache as the DC.

[Moe]

Jim Fassel was just on Mike & Mike and he was very complimentary towards Dan. Very disapointed obviously. 2 things that I toook note of in his interview. 1.) he was notified before they announced Zorn. 2.) He was very instrumental in the hiring of Zorn and called him the day after the hireto talk to him about strategy and personnel with the assumption he was going to be HC.

He was just on the Sports Junkies show this morning and it was an interesting interview. As with what you said, he mentioned several times that he and Dan are tight and he holds no grudges for how this process was handled. He seemed very energetic and eager to get back to coaching at some point and came off as both very insightful and very candid. He also took a shot at Billick and got into some detail about him leaving Balto, which was interesting.

They said that they'll be replaying this interview tomorrow at 7am on wjfk for DC area folks (you can hear the stream online at www.wjfk.com) and mentioned possibly posting this as a podcast on the above webpage at some point.

[CNYSkinFan]

is anyone else worried about not hearing from CP? he has been the heart and soul of this team for the last 4 years and never shied away from giving his opinion...but he is nowhere to be seen...whats up with that?

[dj_stouty]

All I asked from the FO was to roll the dice and take a shot at someone new to the HC profession; and they did. So, I'm in 100% approval.

[smave]

All I asked from the FO was to roll the dice and take a shot at someone new to the HC profession; and they did. So, I'm in 100% approval.

my thoughts exactly
someone young with fire

[skinfanjon]

is anyone else worried about not hearing from CP? he has been the heart and soul of this team for the last 4 years and never shied away from giving his opinion...but he is nowhere to be seen...whats up with that?

He's probably in the Carribean right now drinking margaritas. I wouldn't worry too much about it, the only guys we've really heard from have been Randel El and Springs.

Zorn made it a point to emphasize the running game in the press conference, Portis has to like that.

[Battle Cat]

I approve of Zorn. I wanted a new hungry guy and he seems to be that. I don't like the way they went about choosing him but that is now in the past. I think we needed new blood and now that is what we got. I just hope he is not set on a straight west cost style because I worry about the amount of time it will take to get the pieces in place.

[smave]

now theres talks bout us swapping RB coaches with Seattle?

Zorn wants there RB coach is the word

[lakeskin]

Disapprove. He may turn out to be a great coach but he'll never get a chance here. Comsidering zorn was probably last on Snyder's list means Dan will be quick to bring out the hook if he feels its not working.

In theory I like the idea of bringing in an unproven assistant. But not for an owner like Dan Snyder.

[OCSkinzFan]

He's probably in the Carribean right now drinking margaritas. I wouldn't worry too much about it, the only guys we've really heard from have been Randel El and Springs.

Zorn made it a point to emphasize the running game in the press conference, Portis has to like that.

Yea, he even mentioned Portis' pass-protection; said he liked to hurt people. And he loves that about him.

[Patrick]

is anyone else worried about not hearing from CP? he has been the heart and soul of this team for the last 4 years and never shied away from giving his opinion...but he is nowhere to be seen...whats up with that?

Honestly .......... Don't need to know his opinion - Zorn's the coach and players are playing by HIS rules now. At this point the only thing that needs to heard are positives.
Show up to the required minicamps ready to work.
On a side note - I hope the first thing Zorn ask for is to move the summer camp (circus) out of town.

[hessy36]

It's a crap shoot. Either he'll do well and we will all back him, or he'll suck and get fired. At least things should be exciting in 08.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

He's probably in the Carribean right now drinking margaritas. I wouldn't worry too much about it, the only guys we've really heard from have been Randel El and Springs.

Zorn made it a point to emphasize the running game in the press conference, Portis has to like that.

Not that it matters, but I think you'll find some positive quotes from Cooley before or after the Pro Bowl too.

[Redskinmayhem]

I know this is silly but I'm having a hard time forgiving Zorn for blowing the team colors at the presser. WTF was that??!??!! Maroon yellow and black? He should be fired for that!!!

Ah well, live and learn. I just hope he's as promising a young coach as I think he is.

Damn that team colors comment stings though...:sfight:

[smave]

im glad that within the first few minutes of his conference, he points out how great the skins fanbase is :)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

im glad that within the first few minutes of his conference, he points out how great the skins fanbase is :)

I hope he is ready for the Skins fanbase. Seattle may have a louder stadium, but this is far and away a more passionate and knowledgeable fanbase. Like Steve Largent said, they can turn on you quick in DC.

[hogs86]

This comes from JLC.

Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell
Spoke to several more sources today, including some that know Zorn well, and all continue to say they expect Sherman Smith, an assistant head coach/offense, with the Titans, to be his top choice as offensive coordinator.

Zorn also remains interested in Seattle RB coach Stump Mitchell as well, sources said. If he cannot land Smith, Mitchell could also be considered for the OC job - he has a very thorough knowledge of the West Coast Offense, and, like Smith, shares a close relationship with Zorn.

If either was hired it would their first time as a coordinator, leading many sources who know Zorn to beleive the head coach would call plays on offense. Could be Zorn gets them both, with Mitchell the RB Coach in Washington, and there remains a chance Skins RB coach Earnest Byner could get an opportunity in Seattle if Mitchell came here.

[shally]

This comes from JLC.

Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell
Spoke to several more sources today, including some that know Zorn well, and all continue to say they expect Sherman Smith, an assistant head coach/offense, with the Titans, to be his top choice as offensive coordinator.

Zorn also remains interested in Seattle RB coach Stump Mitchell as well, sources said. If he cannot land Smith, Mitchell could also be considered for the OC job - he has a very thorough knowledge of the West Coast Offense, and, like Smith, shares a close relationship with Zorn.

If either was hired it would their first time as a coordinator, leading many sources who know Zorn to beleive the head coach would call plays on offense. Could be Zorn gets them both, with Mitchell the RB Coach in Washington, and there remains a chance Skins RB coach Earnest Byner could get an opportunity in Seattle if Mitchell came here.

i believe that smith has had playcalling duties in the past. i think he did that when he was coordinator and then HC at morgan state. i dont think that mitchell has ever called plays

holmgren calls plays. sean payton does. i would think that zorn might as well..

[Skins7ny]

I admit to being misinformed on this one. I'd always been under the impression that Zorn came from Dallas to Seattle in the expansion draft; however, I checked the NFL HOF site, and I clearly see he's not on that list.
I thought that Zorn was drafted off the Cowboys' roster in the expansion draft as well. I was really young then, but that is my recollection, too.
is anyone else worried about not hearing from CP? he has been the heart and soul of this team for the last 4 years and never shied away from giving his opinion...but he is nowhere to be seen...whats up with that?
I don't want to hear from him. I want him to keep his mouth shut and just play ball. I hope that he is training and getting ready to re-establish himself as an elite back in 2008. Having a healthy OL should help.

[EddieAlbania]

OK, I know I've turned 42 and all, but I hadn't thought my mind was that gone. Jim Zorn was a Cowboy, according to "The Goal" (a Christian website) on which Zorn has a very nice write up.

Here is the link and his biographical blurb.

"Jim Zorn signed as a free agent with the Dallas Cowboys in 1975. He played with the Seattle Seahawks from 1976-1984, with the Green Bay Packers in 1985 and the Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the Canadian Football League in 1986.

Jim and his wife, Joy, have three children. "

http://www.thegoal.com/players/football/zorn_jim/zorn_jim.html

So there you have it. He was a Cowboy -- a vile, rotten, stinking, filthy Cowboy!

...not that there's anything wrong with that.

[WarEagle]

Glad that there is so much excitement and optimism around here on Jim's hire. A nice change from just a few days ago. I was looking over his bio and was struck that he's never really worked much east of the Mississippi. A real man of the West. Interesting.

[hail2skins]

I renamed this thread because other members were creating poll threads and this one already existed. If you created a poll thread it was deleted because this one already existed.

[colkurtz]

Zorn was brought on due to Vinny's lobbying. We'll see how this works out, along with this season's draft.

[WarEagle]

Zorn was brought on due to Vinny's lobbying. We'll see how this works out, along with this season's draft.

You seem less than enthused, A-10 driver. I don't sense any joy in your posts. I'm pleased with JZ. Why the long face?

[FightforoldDC]

Based on what I read about Zorn, my opinion was positive on him. I just saw a replay of his press conference and interview. I hope he is smarter than he sounds. Worse than that: he was very unprepared. I hope it works out, but it was a lousy start to what should have been a very easy thing to do.

[colkurtz]

You seem less than enthused, A-10 driver. I don't sense any joy in your posts. I'm pleased with JZ. Why the long face?

Oh I do like it. I'm with Shally - I'll take the longer odds over the re-treads any day because this guy is:

Enthusiastic, driven, organized, focused and FINALLY GIVEN A CHANCE TO PROVE HIMSELF.

Desire, motivation and hard work give me hope. I'm on the ZORN bandwagon.

[WarEagle]

Oh I do like it. I'm with Shally - I'll take the longer odds over the re-treads any day because this guy is:

Enthusiastic, driven, organized, focused and FINALLY GIVEN A CHANCE TO PROVE HIMSELF.

Desire, motivation and hard work give me hope. I'm on the ZORN bandwagon.

Well put. From everything I've read and heard from him, he's extremely competent, too. He has a certain charisma about him as well. That always helps in a leadership position.

[Hr fan]

I voted no, but not because of Zorn. He is sort of superfulous as a game day HC, but what the heck. But it must be realized that the duties of a HC - selection of the O and D schemes, selection of assistants to implement his choices, and input to personnel moves are the sole perogatives of Snyderatto. I bet they also maker the final cut decisions. The closest thing we have to a HC is Vinnie Cerratto, not Jim Zorn - and I do not approve of Cerratto.

[syphy]

Enthusiastic, driven, organized, focused and FINALLY GIVEN A CHANCE TO PROVE HIMSELF.

Desire, motivation and hard work give me hope. I'm on the ZORN bandwagon.


Well said.

[JRudy]

I'm kinda late to the party, but I'm real excited about Zorn. I'm happy we didn't hire some hyped up overpaid chump. The "unknown" element of the new coaching staff is real exciting. I hope he is as hungry as the rest of Redskin nation!!!!