Offseason- Post

[greatest2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/11/AR2008021102433.html

solid little ideas and thoughts. nothing to extreme in there analysis, and it was to thorough. Anyway, just food for thought.

P.S. trading a first and third, or two 2nd rounders, is crazy to me. i wouldn't do it in a million years. we have to many other needs, and those picks are vital to us. I rather get Jerry porter, sign marty booker, see how espy comes back and then make a decision on the group of Moss, El, porter, booker, thrash, caldwell, and let the best men win.

[Lavar703]

As much as im a fan of Ocho Cinco I just think its to much to ask for a guy with an attitude problem. If he is giving hell to Carson Palmer what do you think hes going to do to Jason Campbell? Well I guess were back to Danny and Vinnies Madden franchise.

[esmith1790]

"as much as things change, they stay the same."

[BostonSkins]

IF Vinny's first move as Grand Master VP of Operational General Management is to trade away a stable of picks for Chad Johnson I think I might just finally lose it.

[akhhorus]

"as much as things change, they stay the same."

Let me know when they do that. The skins get rumored to be after every big name player, and they rarely actually ever are.

However, if the skins consider WR their top priority, then this(plus Zorn's comments about the passing game) mean Moss' time in DC is nigh.

[esmith1790]

Let me know when they do that. The skins get rumored to be after every big name player, and they rarely actually ever are.

However, if the skins consider WR their top priority, then this(plus Zorn's comments about the passing game) mean Moss' time in DC is nigh.

I thought they were trying to change their spots and focus on keeping their picks and buidling through the draft? Now that Gibbs is gone they are back to trading picks away?

[akhhorus]

I thought they were trying to change their spots and focus on keeping their picks and buidling through the draft? Now that Gibbs is gone they are back to trading picks away?

They didn't trade picks away under Gibbs? Thats not the point. The skins get rumored for every big name player-especially those repped by Rosenhaus. 99% of the time its just smoke and mirrors.

[Lavar703]

They didn't trade picks away under Gibbs? Thats not the point. The skins get rumored for every big name player-especially those repped by Rosenhaus. 99% of the time its just smoke and mirrors.

I dont think the Briggs rumor is smoke and mirrors AKH. I genuinely believe Briggs will be in a Skins uni next year, the Blache connection is there and the fact that Vinny and Danny wanted him last year. This time we dont have to give up picks for him but I do believe it means the end for Marcus Washington in DC, kinda sad because I really like MW. I think the defense will look alot different next year with either Derrick Harvey or Calais Campbell being our first round pick and I see us going after a few corners and maybe a safety like Craig Steltz.

[akhhorus]

I dont think the Briggs rumor is smoke and mirrors AKH.

There's more substance to that one, but thats not a trade.

I genuinely believe Briggs will be in a Skins uni next year, the Blache connection is there and the fact that Vinny and Danny wanted him last year. This time we dont have to give up picks for him but I do believe it means the end for Marcus Washington in DC, kinda sad because I really like MW. I think the defense will look alot different next year with either Derrick Harvey or Calais Campbell being our first round pick and I see us going after a few corners and maybe a safety like Craig Steltz.

I wish we were going DE in the draft, but I don't believe that the current braintrust on the defense believes that its a priority that rates a high draft pick.

[Lavar703]

There's more substance to that one, but thats not a trade.



I wish we were going DE in the draft, but I don't believe that the current braintrust on the defense believes that its a priority that rates a high draft pick.

The article said something about Blache pushing for DL in the draft, although Im sure Snyder will try to pull the trigger on Desean Jackson or Malcolm Kelley. I just dont understand how we can pass on guys like Campbell or Harvey if talent like that is still available when we pick. Im kind of scared that Briggs will be another Trotter though, masked behind a stout defensive line and Urlacher. Briggs is good but we need help in so many other areas that its just stupid for the front office to dedicate that kind of many to a position that is not needed and then again thats probably why this will happen. Im so worried about a spending spree and a year of mediocrity that I cant see straight, Im worried about Zorn having full control of the team and making naive decisions because of inexperience and I just dont see this team making the playoffs next year.

[cal_junior]

I'm with Akh that agents use the Skins to get their players more money. What did concern me was that JLC was almost making a specific point in the article to emphasize that his source was conversations Danny and Vinny have had, rather than Rosenhaus or the aforementioned smoke and mirrors:

Numerous league sources, including some with direct knowledge of conversations between Snyder, Cerrato and recent head coaching candidates, have affirmed that the Redskins have interest in trading for Cincinnati wide receiver Chad Johnson, with two league sources saying Johnson is eager to land a hefty new contract from Washington.

If this is true, this is terrible. No supposedly great player drops more catchable passes than Johnson. If this costs us two second rounders I would be willing to say we're back to the bad old days.

This, to me, was the most disturbing passage in the article:

Campbell will be working under a seventh offensive system in eight years dating from college and some wonder how much patience the Redskins' front office will have with him as he learns another system. "It's a two-to-three year process," said one veteran coach who, like Zorn, is a disciple of Seattle Coach Mike Holmgren. "I'll be very interested to see what kind of rope that kid gets."

2 to 3 years? That's brutal to hear.

[akhhorus]

The article said something about Blache pushing for DL in the draft

Grog believes it when Grog sees it lol.

although Im sure Snyder will try to pull the trigger on Desean Jackson or Malcolm Kelley.

I buy Kelly or Sweed for the WCO. Jackson, no way.

I just dont understand how we can pass on guys like Campbell or Harvey if talent like that is still available when we pick.

Name the last first round DE the skins took?

Kenard Lang

Im kind of scared that Briggs will be another Trotter though, masked behind a stout defensive line and Urlacher. Briggs is good but we need help in so many other areas that its just stupid for the front office to dedicate that kind of many to a position that is not needed and then again thats probably why this will happen.

Actually while Urlacher's play and stats seem to be dependent on Harris and Tank Johnson, Briggs' stats actually went up when both those DTs were benched. I'm not worried that he's a product of the system, I'm worried that we'll sign him and then pass on any Dline help.

I'm with Akh that agents use the Skins to get their players more money. What did concern me was that JLC was almost making a specific point in the article to emphasize that his source was conversations Danny and Vinny have had, rather than Rosenhaus or the aforementioned smoke and mirrors

I can't prove what I'm about to say, BUT: I think that Rosenhaus(and other agents) use the skins as a bargaining tool and in exchange, they'll steer players to the skins for reduced prices or favorable terms on the contracts.

[cal_junior]

I think that Rosenhaus(and other agents) use the skins as a bargaining tool and in exchange, they'll steer players to the skins for reduced prices or favorable terms on the contracts.

That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Sounds like a tactic that would come out of the business community. And we know THAT is something Danny is good at.

[akhhorus]

That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Sounds like a tactic that would come out of the business community. And we know THAT is something Danny is good at.

Its a great tactic, but it could also get the Skins burned if there's a disgruntled player/agent who thinks he got screwed.

[The Skinsinator]

Its a great tactic, but it could also get the Skins burned if there's a disgruntled player/agent who thinks he got screwed.Hey it's not as far fetched as it may sound. Anything and I do mean anything is fair game in this day and age especially when it comes to anyone with the last name of Rosenhaus or Poston. The last few years have definitely been a new era in the nfl.

[bergiemoore]

When has Jason La Canfora been accurate with any of his speculations? When have his sources demonstrated that they really are in touch with the Redskins brain-trust. I think Jason does a great job of reporting official statements in a timely manner, but so far he's batting .090.

[akhhorus]

Hey it's not as far fetched as it may sound. Anything and I do mean anything is fair game in this day and age especially when it comes to anyone with the last name of Rosenhaus or Poston. The last few years have definitely been a new era in the nfl.

Yeah, but its collusion. If a player got pissed, and sued, it could mean big trouble for the skins.

When has Jason La Canfora been accurate with any of his speculations? When have his sources demonstrated that they really are in touch with the Redskins brain-trust. I think Jason does a great job of reporting official statements in a timely manner, but so far he's batting .090.

I'm fairly sure that Gibbs was his big source at the Park. But this whole thing with Fassel, he couched his speculation as that being the only apparent candidates, and did some good reporting outside of the park about the coaching search.

[bergiemoore]

I'm fairly sure that Gibbs was his big source at the Park. But this whole thing with Fassel, he couched his speculation as that being the only apparent candidates, and did some good reporting outside of the park about the coaching search.

I think it would be great to know where this guy gets a majority of his information. I notice that whenever he attributes speculation to league sources, it usual misses the mark by miles. His sources inside the Redskins were completely in the dark about this coaching search. And I believe he was one of the first to claim that the Fassel hiring was eminent in week 2 (if I remember correctly) and he was certainly one of the first sources to claim that Snyder's plane was in route to Phoenix, possibly to pick up Fassel (later refuted).

I know that there is at least one member of this board that works for the Skins. Is there any way we can get some information on where this guy gets his information?

As much as I am critical of Jason, he's still the best blogger covering the Skins, at this point.

[shally]

i cannot imagine that it was lost on snyder that the main reason the cowboys beat us last year was 4 deep plays to TO.. take those away and we more than played them even

same with the giants. we cannot control plaxico all game..

with a WCO we simply have to have a credible deep threat

i dont think we need to bury a bunch of high picks to get CJ .. hopefully it was not lost on snyder also that TO and plaxico did not cost either the cowboys or giants a single pick.. either draft someone or sign a free agent to provide that kind of threat.. or trade moss to get a player like that

i also have to believe that watching what the giants d line did to the pats also had to be a wake up call to snyderrato. you cannot take anything else away from that game.. a great defensive line is key to shutting down a potent offense. it wasnt schemes, it was individual players winning their battles

if the front office absorbed just those 2 lessons, i think we will see a difference for next year

[shally]

I'm with Akh that agents use the Skins to get their players more money. What did concern me was that JLC was almost making a specific point in the article to emphasize that his source was conversations Danny and Vinny have had, rather than Rosenhaus or the aforementioned smoke and mirrors:



If this is true, this is terrible. No supposedly great player drops more catchable passes than Johnson. If this costs us two second rounders I would be willing to say we're back to the bad old days.

This, to me, was the most disturbing passage in the article:



2 to 3 years? That's brutal to hear.

which is why you can bet almost anything we will have an experienced WCO qb on the roster next year.. maybe trent dilfer.. maybe a tim rattay.. but we will have someone..

[whitskins]

I agree with all the big offseason needs. Unlike most, I believe our biggest need to be WR. A guy like Chad or Roy would be great, but we need to set a sensible price limit. Anything more than a second round pick would be too much. If it costs more then walk away and make due. Drafting a guy like Sweed or Kelly would be fine as well. DJ Hackett would even help.

TO went to Baltimore for a second round pick. Then he went to Philly for a player and a fifth round pick. Randy Moss went to the Pats for a fourth rounder. Anything more than a second round pick for a 30 year old Chad Johnson is lunacy.

[skinsfan36]

i think zorn may talk them into going after hackett and we still may draft sweed. if we can get chad for a 3rd then good if not screw that.interesting to hera the defensive plans ie all cbs in tact,dline to be addressed int the draft(hoping thats true),briggs.im guessing we need to be like 7 mil under the cap to make waves in free agency though

[Smurf85]

As much as im a fan of Ocho Cinco I just think its to much to ask for a guy with an attitude problem. If he is giving hell to Carson Palmer what do you think hes going to do to Jason Campbell? Well I guess were back to Danny and Vinnies Madden franchise.

The same thing would have been said about Randy and TO.Now look at them they are leading the league in TDs.So say what you want about attitude.Maybe he's just sick of the Bengals I would be if I was him.

[Smurf85]

i cannot imagine that it was lost on snyder that the main reason the cowboys beat us last year was 4 deep plays to TO.. take those away and we more than played them even

same with the giants. we cannot control plaxico all game..

with a WCO we simply have to have a credible deep threat

i dont think we need to bury a bunch of high picks to get CJ .. hopefully it was not lost on snyder also that TO and plaxico did not cost either the cowboys or giants a single pick.. either draft someone or sign a free agent to provide that kind of threat.. or trade moss to get a player like that

i also have to believe that watching what the giants d line did to the pats also had to be a wake up call to snyderrato. you cannot take anything else away from that game.. a great defensive line is key to shutting down a potent offense. it wasnt schemes, it was individual players winning their battles

if the front office absorbed just those 2 lessons, i think we will see a difference for next year

Agree good post.:awesomewo

[esmith1790]

The same thing would have been said about Randy and TO.Now look at them they are leading the league in TDs.So say what you want about attitude.Maybe he's just sick of the Bengals I would be if I was him.

I think he was comparing the QBs, TO and Moss have QBs that are getting them the football. I believe he was stating that if Carson cant get him the ball enough, then Campbell with his accuracy issues might have a harder time. The poster doesnt want that to boil to the surface and become an issue.

or i could be wrong once again. LOL

[lorimike]

IF Vinny's first move as Grand Master VP of Operational General Management is to trade away a stable of picks for Chad Johnson I think I might just finally lose it.>>>

I hope they do not trade multiple picks for Chad Johnson. What happens is we would end up getting the old washed up version of Chad Johnson and the Bengals would use the multiple picks to get players who will still be in the league long after Johnson's playing days are over. If it is receiver we want there are plently in this draft who will have an impact and they can be had with in the late first round ad 2nd round. If the Skins pulled the trigger on a Chad Johnson trade it will be further proof that the organization has no clue on how to build a team.

[lorimike]

i think zorn may talk them into going after hackett and we still may draft sweed. if we can get chad for a 3rd then good if not screw that.interesting to hera the defensive plans ie all cbs in tact,dline to be addressed int the draft(hoping thats true),briggs.im guessing we need to be like 7 mil under the cap to make waves in free agency though>>>

When an NFL team wants to trade a good player the first call is to the Redskins. No team in the league is more stupid in trading multiple high round draft picks for just one player in return.

[lorimike]

There is an article this morning in the Washington post about trading a 1st and 3rd for Chad Johnson. Allow me to analyze why this is stupi
1. Chad turned 30 last month. He's been in the league for 7 years. One could make the case that his best days are behind him
2. Cincy got Chad in the 2nd round. Somewhere in this draft is a player just like Chad who can be had with just one pick and maybe even in a tradedown. We could trade down in the 1st,draft James Hardy, and add a 3rd round pick in the process
3. With needs at CB,LB,WR,DE,S, and OG/OT I fail to see how we will fill more of those needs without our 1st and 3rd round pick
4. How will Chad Johnson help our defense when we are in 3rd and long. Is he going to come on the field and sack the QB?

[bergiemoore]

There is an article this morning in the Washington post about trading a 1st and 3rd for Chad Johnson. Allow me to analyze why this is stupi
1. Chad turned 30 last month. He's been in the league for 7 years. One could make the case that his best days are behind him
2. Cincy got Chad in the 2nd round. Somewhere in this draft is a player just like Chad who can be had with just one pick and maybe even in a tradedown. We could trade down in the 1st,draft James Hardy, and add a 3rd round pick in the process
3. With needs at CB,LB,WR,DE,S, and OG/OT I fail to see how we will fill more of those needs without our 1st and 3rd round pick
4. How will Chad Johnson help our defense when we are in 3rd and long. Is he going to come on the field and sack the QB?

You forgot to mention that he doesn't play in the WCO.

[akhhorus]

I know that there is at least one member of this board that works for the Skins. Is there any way we can get some information on where this guy gets his information?

The skins would like to know that also, another thing I think but can't prove is that the Skins probably leak false information to the Post to see who's leaking to them. I think Snyder is that petty.

[Battle Cat]

I guess the building through the draft is out the window again with Danny and Vinny back in power. And does anyone have any example of teams in the NFL being successful with this free agency type of philosophy. I also don't think that agents are leaking info to drive up the asking price for their clients. Chad Johnson is under contract a big one as a matter of fact. I don't think that Drew R. cares about what the Bengals get in return for his client. He is not staying up late hours trying to get the Bengals a 1st and a 3rd instead of two 2nd rounders. Drew R. could care less if the Bengals get a 4th or a 5th rounder as long as his client gets a new contract where ever he goes. Is Drew leaking info so he can help the Bengals get the best deal they can I don't see that. Plus if a message board can see through it I would think most NFL general managers could see through it too.

I don't think most general managers would give more than a 4th anyway with the market being set by Randy Moss the second best receiver in NFL history behind Jerry Rice. A 30 year old malcontent receiver no matter how good he is probably worth about a 4th rounder especially when they come with a huge contract and will probably want another one once they get here knowing Drew R.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I guess the building through the draft is out the window again with Danny and Vinny back in power. And does anyone have any example of teams in the NFL being successful with this free agency type of philosophy. I also don't think that agents are leaking info to drive up the asking price for their clients. Chad Johnson is under contract a big one as a matter of fact. I don't think that Drew R. cares about what the Bengals get in return for his client. He is not staying up late hours trying to get the Bengals a 1st and a 3rd instead of two 2nd rounders. Drew R. could care less if the Bengals get a 4th or a 5th rounder as long as his client gets a new contract where ever he goes. Is Drew leaking info so he can help the Bengals get the best deal they can I don't see that. Plus if a message board can see through it I would think most NFL general managers could see through it too.

I don't think most general managers would give more than a 4th anyway with the market being set by Randy Moss the second best receiver in NFL history behind Jerry Rice. A 30 year old malcontent receiver no matter how good he is probably worth about a 4th rounder especially when they come with a huge contract and will probably want another one once they get here knowing Drew R.

The market is probably a little higher than a 4th for Johnson. The Raiders have been coninually mocked for the Moss trade, and I'm sure the Bengals have no interest in going through that. But having said that, I wouldn't want to see the Skins give up more than a third to get him. We have too many other needs.

[bergiemoore]

I don't understand why people are so upset. Nothing has happened yet. Wait until Snyderrato actual does trade away the draft picks before piling on them, please.

So far, this is just Jason La Canfora speculating about what people in the league tell him. "It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

[esmith1790]

the skins pick late in each round around the 21st pick. So there are about 20 other teams that could offer the same round pick and it be a better offer. so some team might offer a 2nd instead of a 3rd. Also then you have to look at teams with multiple round pics. It is easier for them to offer 1 of those because they still have that other same round pick to use in the draft.

another factor is who all is going to be available, FITZ, RW, CJ. If multiple guys are their, the supply is higher and value goes down. IF only CJ is on the block, then the price will go up since he is only the true WR on the market.

If i remember correctly they cut the 1st day down to 2 rounds so the second day starts at round 3. In between days of the draft, a lot of teams re-evaluate their own team and based off of who they just drafted, sometimes more players become expendable. Teams also redo their draft boards, if they dont see a set of players in the range of their pick, they also considered trading away that pick before the 2nd day draft starts. This is where so many trade rumors start or the final details come in.

[Skins7ny]

i cannot imagine that it was lost on snyder that the main reason the cowboys beat us last year was 4 deep plays to TO.. take those away and we more than played them even

same with the giants. we cannot control plaxico all game..

with a WCO we simply have to have a credible deep threat

i dont think we need to bury a bunch of high picks to get CJ .. hopefully it was not lost on snyder also that TO and plaxico did not cost either the cowboys or giants a single pick.. either draft someone or sign a free agent to provide that kind of threat.. or trade moss to get a player like that

i also have to believe that watching what the giants d line did to the pats also had to be a wake up call to snyderrato. you cannot take anything else away from that game.. a great defensive line is key to shutting down a potent offense. it wasnt schemes, it was individual players winning their battles

if the front office absorbed just those 2 lessons, i think we will see a difference for next year

Shally, I would be a lot more comfortable if you were the GM or Exec VP of Football Ops. Your points are well-taken, I hope Danny and Vinny are worthy of the confidence you are expressing in them.

[dj_stouty]

Here is the Cliff Notes version of that article...

"The majority of the team is old and hurt. Many spots need to be filled."

Ugh...I got depressed just reading that. I forgot how banged up this unit was. It really is a small miracle that the Skins made the playoffs the way they did.

I'm not happy about hearing Blatche wants Daniels to come back. (and at DT?!?) I do agree that retaining Springs is key...but at what price?

[colkurtz]

I thought this is a decent article - but mostly speculation. The main point is that the sources and information came BEFORE Zorn was picked as HC.

Sure Snyderratto may want CJ - but does Zorn? Vinny is not going to choose a prime and expensive FA that Zorn opposes.

I thought it was very noteworthy that Blache knows that he needs DL youth and talent via the draft. This is in direct contradiction to the "I want another CB draft pick" ideas from last week. I see a DE or DT in the first round.

I see Moss as a certain casualty of this conversion to the WCO. He is not a prototype WCO WR, he costs too much, he has had two consecutive mediocre seasons in a row.

[Battle Cat]

The market is probably a little higher than a 4th for Johnson. The Raiders have been coninually mocked for the Moss trade, and I'm sure the Bengals have no interest in going through that. But having said that, I wouldn't want to see the Skins give up more than a third to get him. We have too many other needs.
I think the market dropped on Randy Moss because the thought was that he would make the Raiders so uncomfortable if he was left on the team that they had to get rid of him. It is still early but Chad Johnson is off to a good start on making it hard for the Bengals to keep him by his statements to news organizations. I think that he can make the Bengals uncomfortable enough to make them take less than market value for him. Plus Chad has something on his side that Randy never had and that is Drew R. who could probably make a nun want to curse so I think them together can get under the skin of the Bengals if given enough time. 4th or not there is no need for the Redskins to overpay yet. What ever offer they get they will be sure to run it by Danny to see if he will match it or beat it.

[shally]

I think the market dropped on Randy Moss because the thought was that he would make the Raiders so uncomfortable if he was left on the team that they had to get rid of him. It is still early but Chad Johnson is off to a good start on making it hard for the Bengals to keep him by his statements to news organizations. I think that he can make the Bengals uncomfortable enough to make them take less than market value for him. Plus Chad has something on his side that Randy never had and that is Drew R. who could probably make a nun want to curse so I think them together can get under the skin of the Bengals if given enough time. 4th or not there is no need for the Redskins to overpay yet. What ever offer they get they will be sure to run it by Danny to see if he will match it or beat it.

we didnt overpay to get briggs.. maybe the FO has learned something ??

[skinsfan36]

we didnt overpay to get briggs.. maybe the FO has learned something ??

thats a good point maybe we get cheap alternatives to briggs and cj
ie-sweed,hackett,or porter at wr or mitchell or williams at lb