Cooley restructures

[PennSkinsFan]

Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7796664/%27Skins-rework-Cooley-deal-to-save-cap-space)

FOXSports.com has learned Washington converted an $11 million roster bonus Cooley was scheduled to receive into guaranteed money. The move is believed to have lowered Cooley's 2008 cap number from a team-high $12.2 million to $4.4 million.

Everyone taking a deep breath and relaxing now?

[akhhorus]

Everyone taking a deep breath and relaxing now?

I(and others) said this for literally months. This cap issue was never a big deal. Now Cooley will be a redskin for life(they can't cut him until 2012 at least).

[Lacquer Head]

Now that Sean is dead Cooley is my favorite player. This is seriously refreshing, and a very smart decision by the FO.

I bet we have more roster holdover than we normally would because of Sean. There are going to be people that want to see it through with this group who might not otherwise.

[redskinz#1fan]

were only 7 million over currently?...man we will be able to sign the entire league by the time we finish reworking player contracts!

[shally]

we are on our way

get redskin one fueled up and ready to fly

better get drew rosenhaus some valium so he doesnt have a stroke in anticipation..lol

[GolfFreak]

This was inevitable, glad it got done sooner than later.

[skinfan43]

Cooley rocks, and once again now, it appears so does March 1st... if you're a Skins fan;)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Contract restructures to get under the cap so that we can spend some more on March 1.

Its the most wornderful time of the year...:)

[lorimike]

Cooley rocks, and once again now, it appears so does March 1st... if you're a Skins fan;)>>>>

We need to get a little better at managing this cap. Yes I know we can always restructure but by converting roster bonus to signing bonus we contine to mortgage our future. This is why we lead the league in " dead money". Dean money is the portion of the salary cap used on players no longer on the roster. Imagine of that money was utilized on actual players. The best way to manage the cap is to place more emphasis on drafting well and keeping picks and being less impulsive in free agency.

[CNYSkinFan]

so now we are about 5 million over.

we will eventually get to 5-10 million under sign a couple of FA and the draft picks.

But we aren';t going to splurge anytime soon. And with so many teams being so far under the cap they are going to overpay for the top talent (see Dockery) out there.

[openallnight]

Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7796664/%27Skins-rework-Cooley-deal-to-save-cap-space)

FOXSports.com has learned Washington converted an $11 million roster bonus Cooley was scheduled to receive into guaranteed money. The move is believed to have lowered Cooley's 2008 cap number from a team-high $12.2 million to $4.4 million. Everyone taking a deep breath and relaxing now?

Everyone taking a deep breath and relaxing now?

So, I guess that means Cooley will be making a sizable deposit at the drive-thru window :)

[shally]

So, I guess that means Cooley will be making a sizable deposit at the drive-thru window :)

no.. i think this has the opposite effect of putting things off a little bit

the last thing his accountant wants is another huge deposit with major tax bite

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Don't believe it!

Salary cap hell is here!! To get us all finally!

(I wonder where are all the people that predicted it a few weeks ago)

[LATrueRedskin]

Expected, and glad this is done. I think it's funny how some media writers still don't know that we do this every year.

[Syllable]

Expected, and glad this is done. I think it's funny how some media writers still don't know that we do this every year.

Exactly, if you can give credit to the FO in one aspect it would be hiring some Cap Wizard to keep us alive after overpaying anyone we bring in.

[smoak]

>>>>

We need to get a little better at managing this cap. Yes I know we can always restructure but by converting roster bonus to signing bonus we contine to mortgage our future. This is why we lead the league in " dead money". Dean money is the portion of the salary cap used on players no longer on the roster. Imagine of that money was utilized on actual players. The best way to manage the cap is to place more emphasis on drafting well and keeping picks and being less impulsive in free agency.

We really weren't that high in dead money in '07 if I remember correctly.

Great move by the FO, but it was a no-brainer and inevitable (IMO). So they get no credit. ;)

The league is rule that doesn't give cap relief for a murdered player is assinine... Did I spell assinnine correctly? Because it really is. If this was Peyton Manning, the league would be giving the Colts diouble the cap to recover.

[redskin_rich]

The league is rule that doesn't give cap relief for a murdered player is assinine... Did I spell assinnine correctly? Because it really is. If this was Peyton Manning, the league would be giving the Colts diouble the cap to recover.
Where would you draw the line? At murder? What if a player contracts a deadly disease or is crippled or killed in a traffic accident? Then there are situations like Korey Stringer, who was overweight and taking a supplement, that wasn't illegal at the time, that led to his death.
It's unfortunate for the teams but I don't see how the league can provide any relief cap-wise or compensation-wise, without opening a can of worms.

[CNYSkinFan]

Where would you draw the line? At murder? What if a player contracts a deadly disease or is crippled or killed in a traffic accident? Then there are situations like Korey Stringer, who was overweight and taking a supplement, that wasn't illegal at the time, that led to his death.
It's unfortunate for the teams but I don't see how the league can provide any relief cap-wise or compensation-wise, without opening a can of worms.
I actually think medical reasons for a career ending unexpectedly...like death, should be exempt from cap hits. It would be easy to police, because instead of a simple retirment medical staffwould have to declare a player no longer able to play football, player would have to sign off, and they would be barred from coming back in the NFL as a player.

[lorimike]

We really weren't that high in dead money in '07 if I remember correctly.

Great move by the FO, but it was a no-brainer and inevitable (IMO). So they get no credit. ;)

The league is rule that doesn't give cap relief for a murdered player is assinine... Did I spell assinnine correctly? Because it really is. If this was Peyton Manning, the league would be giving the Colts diouble the cap to recover.>>>>

I think if the player dies we should not be penailized with the cap. The competition committee should take up this issue at the owners meetings.

[esmith1790]

We really weren't that high in dead money in '07 if I remember correctly.

Great move by the FO, but it was a no-brainer and inevitable (IMO). So they get no credit. ;)

The league is rule that doesn't give cap relief for a murdered player is assinine... Did I spell assinnine correctly? Because it really is. If this was Peyton Manning, the league would be giving the Colts diouble the cap to recover.

there is always the option to sign a player to a base salary only,if he isnt on the team then there is no dead money. That is the risk teams take when they sign players with signing bonuses... granted death isnt a high factor when signing players but it is always out there for all of us.

[redskin_rich]

I actually think medical reasons for a career ending unexpectedly...like death, should be exempt from cap hits. It would be easy to police, because instead of a simple retirment medical staffwould have to declare a player no longer able to play football, player would have to sign off, and they would be barred from coming back in the NFL as a player.

Why would a player sign that? Think about a guy like Teddy Bruschi, who I didn't think would be able to come back after having his chest opened up. Another sport but Alonzo Mourning, didn't he come back after a kidney transplant?
Sometimes, the dream of playing again is part of what gets someone through such a bad situation.

Besides, how do you draw a line between an unsuspected health defect and something that was caused by lifestyle, an accident or whatever?

[smoak]

Where would you draw the line? At murder? What if a player contracts a deadly disease or is crippled or killed in a traffic accident? Then there are situations like Korey Stringer, who was overweight and taking a supplement, that wasn't illegal at the time, that led to his death.
It's unfortunate for the teams but I don't see how the league can provide any relief cap-wise or compensation-wise, without opening a can of worms.

IMO "dead" is a good line to draw. Sure Corey made some decisions that might have contributed to his death, but you still should get cap relief. It is just my opinion, but I think the NFL would bend over backward if this was a QB or superstar with a high cap value.

[smoak]

Why would a player sign that? Think about a guy like Teddy Bruschi, who I didn't think would be able to come back after having his chest opened up. Another sport but Alonzo Mourning, didn't he come back after a kidney transplant?
Sometimes, the dream of playing again is part of what gets someone through such a bad situation.

Besides, how do you draw a line between an unsuspected health defect and something that was caused by lifestyle, an accident or whatever?


Yeah, I am fine on a team taking a hit for a medical condition...

I see death as being the only circumstance warranting cap relief. It makes no sense to penalize a team for a death UNLESS you're afraid wner will start putting hits out on players rather than cutting them.

[redskin_rich]

IMO "dead" is a good line to draw. Sure Corey made some decisions that might have contributed to his death, but you still should get cap relief. It is just my opinion, but I think the NFL would bend over backward if this was a QB or superstar with a high cap value.
Regardless of any false assumptions people had of Sean's character, I think it's safe to say that he was a superstar and everyone that played with him or against him knew that.
And I disagree with you. The NFL did bend their rules, to an extent, for the Redskins regarding Sean. But these were just the little, picky uniform rules. Changing the rules of the CBA is a whole 'nother matter.

[smoak]

Regardless of any false assumptions people had of Sean's character, I think it's safe to say that he was a superstar and everyone that played with him or against him knew that.
And I disagree with you. The NFL did bend their rules, to an extent, for the Redskins regarding Sean. But these were just the little, picky uniform rules. Changing the rules of the CBA is a whole 'nother matter.

Ummm.... I'm not debating that Taylor was a Superstar, but rather that he doesn't have a "high enough" cap number to force the issue. Again, if it was McNabb or Manning, the media would be all over this and the NFL would cave. Stringer, Taylor, Williams, and others simply haven't had a high enough cap # to force the issue... But right ir right IMO and it should come down to $$$$.

For example, if Manning was murdered, here would be a rough estimate of his cap charges (signing bonus only b/c I am lazy):

2004
$34.5MM

2005
$29.6MM

2006
$24.MM

2007
$19.7MM

and so on and so forth....

The salary cap in 2004 was ~ $80MM so had Manning been murdered, it would have cost the Colts roughly 43% of their cap and meant that the team would have almost certainly NOT even been able to get under by the deadline. Sure this is a dramatic example, but it illustrates what I am struggling to explain. I am 100% certain the league would step in and help the Colts rather than see them completely dismantle and play with basically 53 fans from ColtsPride.com

[skinfanjon]

IMO "dead" is a good line to draw. Sure Corey made some decisions that might have contributed to his death, but you still should get cap relief.

Yeah, I agree with this. Medical conditions are way to complicated to have to analyze, but dead is dead. It would be a simple adjustment to the CBA to get this taken care of, before a catastrophic cap situation came about (like Smoak is speculating).

As for Cooley, nice to know that he's here for the long haul. Maybe I'll get a Cooley jersey next year.

[akhhorus]

We really weren't that high in dead money in '07 if I remember correctly.

Great move by the FO, but it was a no-brainer and inevitable (IMO). So they get no credit. ;)

The league is rule that doesn't give cap relief for a murdered player is assinine... Did I spell assinnine correctly? Because it really is. If this was Peyton Manning, the league would be giving the Colts diouble the cap to recover.

No they wouldn't. You can only get cap relief if the contract is violated. And a Fed Judge just ruled that Vick didn't even do that by committing federal felonies and the Falcons weren't entitled to much cap relief.

Ummm.... I'm not debating that Taylor was a Superstar, but rather that he doesn't have a "high enough" cap number to force the issue. Again, if it was McNabb or Manning, the media would be all over this and the NFL would cave. Stringer, Taylor, Williams, and others simply haven't had a high enough cap # to force the issue... But right ir right IMO and it should come down to $$$$.

For example, if Manning was murdered, here would be a rough estimate of his cap charges (signing bonus only b/c I am lazy):

2004
$34.5MM

2005
$29.6MM

2006
$24.MM

2007
$19.7MM

and so on and so forth....

The salary cap in 2004 was ~ $80MM so had Manning been murdered, it would have cost the Colts roughly 43% of their cap and meant that the team would have almost certainly NOT even been able to get under by the deadline. Sure this is a dramatic example, but it illustrates what I am struggling to explain. I am 100% certain the league would step in and help the Colts rather than see them completely dismantle and play with basically 53 fans from ColtsPride.com

No they wouldn't. If they stepped in and made an exception, it would lead to 31 franchises royally pissed off. If they didn't make one for Darrent Williams or Sean Taylor, they wouldn't for Peyton.

[skinfanjon]

No they wouldn't. You can only get cap relief if the contract is violated. And a Fed Judge just ruled that Vick didn't even do that by committing federal felonies and the Falcons weren't entitled to much cap relief.



No they wouldn't. If they stepped in and made an exception, it would lead to 31 franchises royally pissed off. If they didn't make one for Darrent Williams or Sean Taylor, they wouldn't for Peyton.

I agree, the NFL follows the letter of the law very carefully. My question is, why can't they get this included in the CBA? Do you have a real reason as to why it wouldn't work?

[akhhorus]

I agree, the NFL follows the letter of the law very carefully. My question is, why can't they get this included in the CBA? Do you have a real reason as to why it wouldn't work?

I wouldn't be surprised to see something talked about, but I would guess that the reason has to do with contract law in the NFL. However, I do think you can have a pup/reserve-retired/non-football illness-death list where the person doesn't count as much against the cap.

[redskin_rich]

Ummm.... I'm not debating that Taylor was a Superstar, but rather that he doesn't have a "high enough" cap number to force the issue. Again, if it was McNabb or Manning, the media would be all over this and the NFL would cave. Stringer, Taylor, Williams, and others simply haven't had a high enough cap # to force the issue... But right ir right IMO and it should come down to $$$$.



The salary cap in 2004 was ~ $80MM so had Manning been murdered, it would have cost the Colts roughly 43% of their cap and meant that the team would have almost certainly NOT even been able to get under by the deadline. Sure this is a dramatic example, but it illustrates what I am struggling to explain. I am 100% certain the league would step in and help the Colts rather than see them completely dismantle and play with basically 53 fans from ColtsPride.com
I think you are wrong. I don't care who it is or what it cost the team, the league cannot and would not make an exception. I find it unbelievable that you would even entertain this notion.
How much cap space is Vick going to take from Atlanta, BTW? I know, different circumstances but at the same time, why should the Falcon organization and it's fans be penalized? If reigning SB champion, Ben Roethlisberger had not been so lucky in his stupid, helmet-less motorcycle accident, do you think Pittsburgh would have been given any concession? Even if they had a (stupidity) clause in his contract, which I'm pretty sure they did.

[akhhorus]

I think you are wrong. I don't care who it is or what it cost the team, the league cannot and would not make an exception. I find it unbelievable that you would even entertain this notion.
How much cap space is Vick going to take from Atlanta, BTW? I know, different circumstances but at the same time, why should the Falcon organization and it's fans be penalized? If reigning SB champion, Ben Roethlisberger had not been so lucky in his stupid, helmet-less motorcycle accident, do you think Pittsburgh would have been given any concession? Even if they had a (stupidity) clause in his contract, which I'm pretty sure they did.

Its a different situation since Vick "violated" his deal with the illegal acts. The NFL ruled that his contract was null and void(a Fed Judge ruled that it wasn't). If the Fed Judge's ruling survives, the Falcons would be stuck with about 16ish million in dead cap money for a year.

[redskin_rich]

Its a different situation since Vick "violated" his deal with the illegal acts. The NFL ruled that his contract was null and void(a Fed Judge ruled that it wasn't). If the Fed Judge's ruling survives, the Falcons would be stuck with about 16ish million in dead cap money for a year.

Yes, it's different but the point being that you cannot get back money paid. And that is all we are on the cap for, right?

[akhhorus]

Yes, it's different but the point being that you cannot get back money paid. And that is all we are on the cap for, right?

Yup, just the remainder of the signing bonus.

[GloryHog]

I agree, the NFL follows the letter of the law very carefully. My question is, why can't they get this included in the CBA? Do you have a real reason as to why it wouldn't work?

I'm sure the players association would be happy to agree to cap relief for almost any reason. In my opinion the majority of the owners want this rule in place to strictly limit their out of pocket expenses. The fans won't blame an owner for being cheep because there's a rule that says they can't spend any more. Even the owners who's clubs are regularly under the salary cap don't want to look even worse when compared to a deep pockets owner (like Snyder).

[smoak]

No they wouldn't. You can only get cap relief if the contract is violated. And a Fed Judge just ruled that Vick didn't even do that by committing federal felonies and the Falcons weren't entitled to much cap relief.



No they wouldn't. If they stepped in and made an exception, it would lead to 31 franchises royally pissed off. If they didn't make one for Darrent Williams or Sean Taylor, they wouldn't for Peyton.

I respect your opinion and I don't buy it for one second. The NFL would get the owners to agree to change the way deceased players count against the cap.

It is only my opinion, but barring the death of a player who is eating up >20% of their team's cap... We'll never know.

[smoak]

I think you are wrong. I don't care who it is or what it cost the team, the league cannot and would not make an exception. I find it unbelievable that you would even entertain this notion.
How much cap space is Vick going to take from Atlanta, BTW? I know, different circumstances but at the same time, why should the Falcon organization and it's fans be penalized? If reigning SB champion, Ben Roethlisberger had not been so lucky in his stupid, helmet-less motorcycle accident, do you think Pittsburgh would have been given any concession? Even if they had a (stupidity) clause in his contract, which I'm pretty sure they did.

Throw Vick out b/c he isn't dead. Had BR died, I don't know that he would have impacted the Steelers cap enough to make a change, but a high profile QB dying (no matter how significant the cap hit) would possibly get the national media going.

I understand all the reasons for the NFL to stand firm on this, but I am not talking about looking at anything other than deceased players. Injuries happen. Character should be factored in before you give big bonuses... But murder? It makes no sense to me that the NFL wouldn't do something to help a franchise. My personal belief (not something I am pounding my chest as fact) is that we'd have to see someone with a v ery high cap charge die early in their deal.

But I ahve totally derail the Cooley restructuring so maybe I should split this off? It is just my belief and hopefully we'll never know.

[akhhorus]

I respect your opinion and I don't buy it for one second. The NFL would get the owners to agree to change the way deceased players count against the cap.

It is only my opinion, but barring the death of a player who is eating up >20% of their team's cap... We'll never know.

It might force the owners to change the rule for all other examples after the fact, but the Colts would not get any cap relief. There's been a handful of players die while active in the salary cap era(Stringer, Damien Nash, Williams, Taylor, Fred Lane, Marquise Hill, Thomas Herrion, etc), and none of their teams got cap relief. And if they aren't going to do for the Taylor situation, they aren't going to do it for Peyton Manning. For sheer legal reasons they can't do it. The player had a contract with the team(and the league), and the only way to get cap relief is if the contract was violated by the player(PacMan, Carruth, Vick) not if they died.

[redskin_rich]

It might force the owners to change the rule for all other examples after the fact, but the Colts would not get any cap relief. There's been a handful of players die while active in the salary cap era(Stringer, Damien Nash, Williams, Taylor, Fred Lane, Marquise Hill, Thomas Herrion, etc), and none of their teams got cap relief. And if they aren't going to do for the Taylor situation, they aren't going to do it for Peyton Manning. For sheer legal reasons they can't do it. The player had a contract with the team(and the league), and the only way to get cap relief is if the contract was violated by the player(PacMan, Carruth, Vick) not if they died.
Derrick Thomas was still a player, during the salary cap era, when he was injured off the field and eventually died. Though he was at the end of his career, I would imagine he had a hefty salary.
What about the RB (can't remember his name) that the Pats drafted in the 1st round, that was the offensive ROY, I believe. He didn't die but he suffered an injury that wrecked his career as a Patriot and it happened in a league sanctioned event during the Pro Bowl festivities in Hawaii. Did the Pats get any compensation?

[skinfanjon]

Derrick Thomas was still a player, during the salary cap era, when he was injured off the field and eventually died. Though he was at the end of his career, I would imagine he had a hefty salary.
What about the RB (can't remember his name) that the Pats drafted in the 1st round, that was the offensive ROY, I believe. He didn't die but he suffered an injury that wrecked his career as a Patriot and it happened in a league sanctioned event during the Pro Bowl festivities in Hawaii. Did the Pats get any compensation?

I get what you're saying, but it seems to me a clear distinction could be made between injury and death. Injury may be too complicate to regulate, but death is death.

[skinsfan36]

great news cooley is the face of the redskins for life basically. jerry porter,randal gay,lance briggs may be in our future

[greatest2]

I respect your opinion and I don't buy it for one second. The NFL would get the owners to agree to change the way deceased players count against the cap.

It is only my opinion, but barring the death of a player who is eating up >20% of their team's cap... We'll never know.

and lets hope we never have too....

[greatest2]

great news cooley is the face of the redskins for life basically. jerry porter,randal gay,lance briggs may be in our future

check
check
check


give me some of that offseason

[JoeDaSchmoe]

jerry porter,randal gay,lance briggs may be in our future

:bangdesk:

Someone... make the pain... go away....

[smoak]

Derrick Thomas was still a player, during the salary cap era, when he was injured off the field and eventually died. Though he was at the end of his career, I would imagine he had a hefty salary.
What about the RB (can't remember his name) that the Pats drafted in the 1st round, that was the offensive ROY, I believe. He didn't die but he suffered an injury that wrecked his career as a Patriot and it happened in a league sanctioned event during the Pro Bowl festivities in Hawaii. Did the Pats get any compensation?


The RB was Robert Edwards I believe who actually returned to play football for the Dolphins.

Thomas would be an interesting case study, but he only accounted for a small, small % of the cap due to the fact that he hit performance incentives that voided the last two years of the deal. By my quick estimation, he counted < 5% of the Chiefs cap.

SOURCE (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/news/2000/01/27/thomas_chiefs_ap/)

[lorimike]

I think you are wrong. I don't care who it is or what it cost the team, the league cannot and would not make an exception. I find it unbelievable that you would even entertain this notion.
How much cap space is Vick going to take from Atlanta, BTW? I know, different circumstances but at the same time, why should the Falcon organization and it's fans be penalized? If reigning SB champion, Ben Roethlisberger had not been so lucky in his stupid, helmet-less motorcycle accident, do you think Pittsburgh would have been given any concession? Even if they had a (stupidity) clause in his contract, which I'm pretty sure they did.<<<<

A new rule on the salary cap in the event a player dies shouldn't be that hard to enact. If a player under contract dies then the team should be absolved of the salary cap hit. It is real simple. In our case we can overcome it because Sean was still on his rookie contact. But god forbid this happen to a player with an extremely high contract the effects would be devasting and ruin the ability of that team to compete.

[chrisbcbu]

no.. i think this has the opposite effect of putting things off a little bit

the last thing his accountant wants is another huge deposit with major tax bite

I remember reading something about Cooley when he signed the contract extention and got a big bonus that he actually deposited it into the ATM!

Can you imagine pulling that nights deposits and seeing a deposit of that size! LOL

[AGibbsGirl]

Cooley...I am glad to see that, in all hope, he will be with us for a long time

Because by all accounts he is very much loved in the community here. He's very down to Earth, very approachable, constantly doing the small things that make an impact in the community.

Despite his poor start here (the Cheerleader incidents) he has matured and really turned into a fine young man.

Now if only he were going to Atlantic City with me on Sunday! GET ON THE BUS COOLEY! :D

[akhhorus]

Derrick Thomas was still a player, during the salary cap era, when he was injured off the field and eventually died. Though he was at the end of his career, I would imagine he had a hefty salary.
What about the RB (can't remember his name) that the Pats drafted in the 1st round, that was the offensive ROY, I believe. He didn't die but he suffered an injury that wrecked his career as a Patriot and it happened in a league sanctioned event during the Pro Bowl festivities in Hawaii. Did the Pats get any compensation?

They IRed him a couple years, he tried to come back, and then they cut him. So they were liable for the pro-rated signing bonus(which probably wasn't much since he was a mid first rounder I believe).

[skin4ever]

This is great, I wont have to buy another SKins jersey for some time to come.

[bergiemoore]

Cooley...I am glad to see that, in all hope, he will be with us for a long time

Because by all accounts he is very much loved in the community here. He's very down to Earth, very approachable, constantly doing the small things that make an impact in the community.

Despite his poor start here (the Cheerleader incidents) he has matured and really turned into a fine young man.

Now if only he were going to Atlantic City with me on Sunday! GET ON THE BUS COOLEY! :D

I can't fault him at all for that, he's living the dream! Besides, he married one of them. That's gotta count for something, right?

[SkinsGuru]

It might force the owners to change the rule for all other examples after the fact, but the Colts would not get any cap relief. There's been a handful of players die while active in the salary cap era(Stringer, Damien Nash, Williams, Taylor, Fred Lane, Marquise Hill, Thomas Herrion, etc), and none of their teams got cap relief. And if they aren't going to do for the Taylor situation, they aren't going to do it for Peyton Manning. For sheer legal reasons they can't do it. The player had a contract with the team(and the league), and the only way to get cap relief is if the contract was violated by the player(PacMan, Carruth, Vick) not if they died.

A stupid question. Wouldn't death be a violation of the contract?? I mean the player who died is failing to abide by the contract. He is not playing out the contract just like a player holding out for a new contract, a player sentenced to a prison term, etc.

[akhhorus]

A stupid question. Wouldn't death be a violation of the contract?? I mean the player who died is failing to abide by the contract. He is not playing out the contract just like a player holding out for a new contract, a player sentenced to a prison term, etc.

The NFL(and I'm sure this is because there's law on their side) says that it doesn't. Good luck walking into court trying to collect a signing bonus from an estate. Retirement and prison are(its a question of if the team involved wants to collect it, its not automatic) contract violations.

[skin4ever]

The NFL(and I'm sure this is because there's law on their side) says that it doesn't. Good luck walking into court trying to collect a signing bonus from an estate. Retirement and prison are(its a question of if the team involved wants to collect it, its not automatic) contract violations.

Isnt death of a party to a contract, an excuse from performance of a contract, especially where the player is signed to the contract because of his unique abilities and skills and thus cannot be performed where he has passed away.

I dont know what the PR angle is, but the skins may be able not to collect past monies paid for ST's play, but may avoid having not to pay future bonuses/salaries because they are not getting the services for the length of the contract. This is a dreary and sad topic, just typing it seems a little cold. But i dont put it past DS to make such a move, well actually any team really as this money goes to the salary cap, DS has enough money though to make a gift of some sort to ST's family.

[akhhorus]

Isnt death of a party to a contract, an excuse from performance of a contract, especially where the player is signed to the contract because of his unique abilities and skills and thus cannot be performed where he has passed away.

It really all depends on the language of the contracts. Since no player who's died have(their estates) been taken to arbitration(nor have their been any talk of that) for violation of their contract, and players who have been arrested or retired abruptly(Jake Plummer, Ricky Williams, etc) have been taken to arbitration, I would assume that the language of the NFL contracts doesn't see death as a violation of the contract.

[skin4ever]

It really all depends on the language of the contracts. Since no player who's died have(their estates) been taken to arbitration(nor have their been any talk of that) for violation of their contract, and players who have been arrested or retired abruptly(Jake Plummer, Ricky Williams, etc) have been taken to arbitration, I would assume that the language of the NFL contracts doesn't see death as a violation of the contract.

Yeah, the language of the contract is the key, but i dont think its a violation of the contract, i think it would be more of an excuse that would get them out of it. And there being no precedent, makes this a real sticky issue. BUt unfortunately, recently a couple of players have died with NFL contracts, and we will have to see how it plays out. Also, with the NFL appealing the Vick ruling, who knows what they would do about death of a player, nonetheless a guy who is in jail.

But as for this threads topic, because we are discussing some disheartening stuff, I am glad we signed him for the long haul, he will(hopefully) continue to be a stud.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, the language of the contract is the key, but i dont think its a violation of the contract, i think it would be more of an excuse that would get them out of it. And there being no precedent, makes this a real sticky issue. BUt unfortunately, recently a couple of players have died with NFL contracts, and we will have to see how it plays out. Also, with the NFL appealing the Vick ruling, who knows what they would do about death of a player, nonetheless a guy who is in jail.

Vick is as clear an example of violating a contract. In his contract, he swore that he wasn't involved in any ongoing illegal or illicit conduct(standard NFL contract language). He obviously violated that lol. I don't think you can make a legal argument that a player who died for whatever reason, besides dying something illegal or dangerous, much like a player who gets hurt doing something dangerous-like KWII and his motorcycle, "violated" his contract. So, if Tony Romo got shot by a cop robbing a gay porn store, it could be said he "violated" his contract.

[firehawk157]

Okay, I get the legality of it. My question has nothing to do with that. But the salary cap is completely an NFL rule and has no basis whatsoever in civil law (except for the CBA, which can be amended). So can't the NFL amend the CBA (in association with the NFLPA) to say death of a player on contract results in 0 cap hit from the time of death to eternity? I'm sure the civil courts don't actually care anything about the cap and there's no need to try and recoup the actual money as it's just a figure on a cap sheet.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Cooley is such the team guy. What a great find. Hopefully our scouts can find some more diamonds like Cooley this year. I hope Cooley remains a Redskin his whole career.

[firehawk157]

Vick is as clear an example of violating a contract. In his contract, he swore that he wasn't involved in any ongoing illegal or illicit conduct(standard NFL contract language). He obviously violated that lol. I don't think you can make a legal argument that a player who died for whatever reason, besides dying something illegal or dangerous, much like a player who gets hurt doing something dangerous-like KWII and his motorcycle, "violated" his contract. So, if Tony Romo got shot by a cop robbing a gay porn store, it could be said he "violated" his contract.
So let's just say (god forbid) a team's plane crashes and ALL the players die. Now, they are strapped with a gigantic cap hit and nobody to play, then what?

[akhhorus]

So let's just say (god forbid) a team's plane crashes and ALL the players die. Now, they are strapped with a gigantic cap hit and nobody to play, then what?

Well, they would probably forfeit the rest of their games that season even if they didn't have to accelerate the remainders of the bonuses(which for the record, I doubt would take up the entire cap, no team probably could even have 115 million in pro-rated remaining bonus money), which means that after the season ended, they would have a cap figure of zero in the following season.

[firehawk157]

They would probably actually be counted post June 1st cuts (horrible use of the word) so there would be accelerated bonuses on the next season. I didn't say they'd have 100% of their cap taken up, but I'd imagine at least like $50M in unusable cap (dead cap is probably the worst pun ever, so I didn't want to use it).

[skin4ever]

I don't think you can make a legal argument that a player who died for whatever reason, besides dying something illegal or dangerous, much like a player who gets hurt doing something dangerous-like KWII and his motorcycle, "violated" his contract. So, if Tony Romo got shot by a cop robbing a gay porn store, it could be said he "violated" his contract.

I am not arguing whether or not ST violated his contract, i am arguing that the skins may be able to avoid paying his future salaries/bonuses based solely on an excuse for the redskins to not continue to perform their side of the bargain because ST did not fulfill his contract fro the length of the contract. Its an excuse from performance, not a breach/violation. Death of a party to a contract, where that party is not replaceable is an excuse to not perform the rest of the contract. It basically voids the contract. Thats what i am saying.

I like that last part about romo, LMAO. but its not the equivalent for one reason, he is a cowgirl so who cares. But he didnt violate his contract by getting killed, but the cowgirls may be excused from paying the rest of his contract because Romo cannot perform.

The only sticking point, for me, is the bonus money, because that is gauranteed and i dont know the limits on what garaunteed means. But i would think and argue that it falls within my understanding.

[akhhorus]

They would probably actually be counted post June 1st cuts (horrible use of the word) so there would be accelerated bonuses on the next season. I didn't say they'd have 100% of their cap taken up, but I'd imagine at least like $50M in unusable cap (dead cap is probably the worst pun ever, so I didn't want to use it).

You can only designate 1 or 2 players as June 1st cuts(and you can't do it during the season I believe). So any remaining cap money would be gone as soon as the season officially ended.

I am not arguing whether or not ST violated his contract, i am arguing that the skins may be able to avoid paying his future salaries/bonuses based solely on an excuse for the redskins to not continue to perform their side of the bargain because ST did not fulfill his contract fro the length of the contract. Its an excuse from performance, not a breach/violation. Death of a party to a contract, where that party is not replaceable is an excuse to not perform the rest of the contract. It basically voids the contract. Thats what i am saying.

I like that last part about romo, LMAO. but its not the equivalent for one reason, he is a cowgirl so who cares. But he didnt violate his contract by getting killed, but the cowgirls may be excused from paying the rest of his contract because Romo cannot perform.

Its not the simple. Romo in that scenario isn't getting his contract pay(neither is Taylor or Williams, etc etc etc), the question is if the party violated the terms of his contract thus forcing a forfeiture of the previously paid signing bonus(which he recieved when alive). The contract is void because of the death of a party to it, and the agreed-to payments stop to the player's estate. The NFL rules on signing bonus are clear, and even if a player is kidnapped by Aliens, the team is still liable for the pro-rated cap charge unless they can prove the player violated his contract. Death isn't a violation.

[firehawk157]

You can only designate 1 or 2 players as June 1st cuts(and you can't do it during the season I believe). So any remaining cap money would be gone as soon as the season officially ended.



Its not the simple. Romo in that scenario isn't getting his contract pay(neither is Taylor or Williams, etc etc etc), the question is if the party violated the terms of his contract thus forcing a forfeiture of the previously paid signing bonus(which he recieved when alive). The contract is void because of the death of a party to it, and the agreed-to payments stop to the player's estate. The NFL rules on signing bonus are clear, and even if a player is kidnapped by Aliens, the team is still liable for the pro-rated cap charge unless they can prove the player violated his contract. Death isn't a violation.
If the cut happens after June 1st, isn't it automatically a post June 1st cut?

[skin4ever]

My bad, my understanding was this was about STs ramifications on this year's and future years contracts, not back pay for ST's time he played. I agree his death is not a violation of the terms of the contract to allow the skins to recoup his already earned money. BUt it is an excuse not to pay any(including bonuses) money in the future.

Per Ahk, earlier post, "There's been a handful of players die while active in the salary cap era(Stringer, Damien Nash, Williams, Taylor, Fred Lane, Marquise Hill, Thomas Herrion, etc), and none of their teams got cap relief."

So, if i am understanding this right, teams wont have to pay the estates of the players future money, but the money they were contracted to, still counts against the cap for the years and in the manner the contract says.
You argument seems logical, and while i agree with what you are saying, i found this site and it lists the players salaries for the 2007 season and WIlliams and Nash(broncos) were not on that list. I dont know if it is just the media being stupid and only looking at active rosters or what.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2007&team=9

Its still an interesting site to check out how much players from any team was getting up to 2007. Unfortuneately it didnt include 2008 numbers yet.

[skin4ever]

Cooley is such the team guy. What a great find. Hopefully our scouts can find some more diamonds like Cooley this year. I hope Cooley remains a Redskin his whole career.

He could have been Gibbs greatest move at not drafting the obvious choice(first round guy) but finding a way to make things happen in the draft and draft up to get him. That was awesome. Wish we had drafted other great guys, like 6th round last year, Mason Crosby was still available and we took i believe that LB out of USC. Crosby while not as accurate as I would like, can kick the leather off the ball and put it in the endzone every kickoff.

[firehawk157]

We actually took HB Blades and Dallas Sartz in the 5th. That was our run of LBs.

[skin4ever]

We actually took HB Blades and Dallas Sartz in the 5th. That was our run of LBs.

Well, i would have liked to them to take crosby in the 5th. I like blades, that was good too.

[OCSkinzFan]

I remember reading something about Cooley when he signed the contract extention and got a big bonus that he actually deposited it into the ATM!

Can you imagine pulling that nights deposits and seeing a deposit of that size! LOL

Tight end Chris Cooley is being chided by teammates for depositing his recent $9 million signing bonus check at a drive-through lane of a Leesburg bank. Cooley said the transaction did not surprise the teller. "She just took a little bit longer to come back out," he said.
I thought that was hilarious too.
Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091302423.html)

[skinsfan36]

I thought that was hilarious too.
Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/13/AR2007091302423.html)

heard about that alot of the locals at a bar here where talking about it(leesburg 45 mins away)

[coffdogg]

there is always the option to sign a player to a base salary only,if he isnt on the team then there is no dead money. That is the risk teams take when they sign players with signing bonuses... granted death isnt a high factor when signing players but it is always out there for all of us.There are very few if any players that will sign a contract with a team without guaranteed money.You go to a player and say Hey we want you but we don't want to give you a signing bonus then next thing you see is his and his agents butts as they walk out.Be realistic,in this day and age especially it is how fast you can make money.