defensive lineman at the combine

[lorimike]

Vernon Gholston ran a 4.64 in the forty at the combine today. Calais Campbell ran a 5.03. Derrick Harvey ran a respectable 4.8 with 31 in the bench press. Georgia's Marcus Howard ran the best of the defensive lineman at 4.47. Quenten Groves is probably bottom of the first or top of the 2nd with a 4.54 forty. Phillip Merling did not run. Calais Campbell has to be disappointment

[lorimike]

Two other ends who did well. Virginia Tech's Chris Ellis ran a 4.71 and USC's Lawrence Jackson ran a 4.81

[skinfanjon]

Um, when's the last time anybody saw a defensive lineman run 40 yards in a football game?


That's what I thought. Talk about meaningless.

[akhhorus]

Um, when's the last time anybody saw a defensive lineman run 40 yards in a football game?


That's what I thought. Talk about meaningless.

Its relevant for LaRon Landry considering how far they play him back, but not DEs lol.

[lorimike]

Um, when's the last time anybody saw a defensive lineman run 40 yards in a football game?


That's what I thought. Talk about meaningless.<<<<

If they gotta run 40 yards they aren't gonna catch em anyways. I agree but the 40 is indicative of the burst and athleticism of the player. Most of the ends who have the consistant double digit sack totals can run 4.8 or better with some exceptions.

[akhhorus]

<<<<

If they gotta run 40 yards they aren't gonna catch em anyways. I agree but the 40 is indicative of the burst and athleticism of the player. Most of the ends who have the consistant double digit sack totals can run 4.8 or better with some exceptions.

No, the 10 yard split and shuttle times are indicative of that. 40 times are next to useless for Linemen.

[lorimike]

No, the 10 yard split and shuttle times are indicative of that. 40 times are next to useless for Linemen.<<<

Then why do they run it? You don't think Vernon Gholston improved his stock today with a 4.64 37 reps at the bench and a 34 inch vertical?

[akhhorus]

<<<

Then why do they run it? You don't think Vernon Gholston improved his stock today with a 4.64 37 reps at the bench and a 34 inch vertical?

Because everyone runs it. Even kickers, punters and Qbs. Everyone does the same bench presses also.

Gholston improved his stock with his reps and his vertical. And his 10 yard split for 1.79, which is pretty good.

[culpeper]

Because everyone runs it. Even kickers, punters and Qbs. Everyone does the same bench presses also.

Gholston improved his stock with his reps and his vertical. And his 10 yard split for 1.79, which is pretty good.

how big is Gholston? i saw him in the michigan game and he was dominate from both right and left DE and even when he lined up inside. i think he had the ONLY sack jake long gave up all year didnt he?

he looks like a big boy, but i remember someone telling me he was around 265. if thats the case, we need more weight on that strong side.

[fent]

Its relevant for LaRon Landry considering how far they play him back, but not DEs lol.

i present to you Mr. Suggs as exhibit A of why the 40 time means nothing to a DEs ability to play in the NFL.

[akhhorus]

i present to you Mr. Suggs as exhibit A of why the 40 time means nothing to a DEs ability to play in the NFL.

Better one: Aaron Kampman. Ran a 5+. Wasn't even invited to the combine.

[tyrone_rush_fan]

Watching his 40, it takes him awhile to get started. In positional drills, he just looks pretty stiff, awkward, and generally unathletic.
But then again, I guess we all knew he wasn't ever going to be a finesse type player anyways.

[skinsfan36]

groves impressed me in the 10 yd split(up there with freeney,smith) to and i think hes a 4-3 end imo i think we run to the podium if hes there at 21

[BigCountry]

groves impressed me in the 10 yd split(up there with freeney,smith) to and i think hes a 4-3 end imo i think we run to the podium if hes there at 21

He might be a 4-3 in a Tampa 2 but there's no way he can play left end in our system. Lower body strength just isn't there.

[greatest2]

No, the 10 yard split and shuttle times are indicative of that. 40 times are next to useless for Linemen.

exactly. 40 times aren't burst or acceleration as much as the shuttle and the split. The 40 is good obviously for RB's corners and wideouts. after that its almost worthless, maybe lb a little for sideline to sideline stuff, but not much

[greatest2]

<<<<

If they gotta run 40 yards they aren't gonna catch em anyways. I agree but the 40 is indicative of the burst and athleticism of the player. Most of the ends who have the consistant double digit sack totals can run 4.8 or better with some exceptions.

for the guy who has said if the skins just do what he says on his blog they would be fine, you are wrong on something thats pretty big in the draft. see what ak said, or above post

[warpaint]

Name Time
Groves, Quentin 4.57
Crable, Shawn 4.64
Gholston, Vernon 4.67
Johnson, Curtis 4.69
Ellis, Chris 4.71
Gatewood, Curtis 4.74
Long, Chris 4.75
Smith, Bryan 4.75
Thompson, Jeremy 4.75
4.67 is the time per the combine web site. 4.64 was probably his first of the two ran.

[lorimike]

Better one: Aaron Kampman. Ran a 5+. Wasn't even invited to the combine.<<<

Kampman is the poster child for why you don't throw draft picks away in a heartbeat. He was a 5th round pick. Talk about return on investment. I did say there is some exceptions with the 40. But the best sackers of all time were very fast people. ie Reggie White, Bruce Smith Dexter Manley, Derrick Thomas, Lawrence Taylor.

[Patrick]

Name Time
Groves, Quentin 4.57
Crable, Shawn 4.64
Gholston, Vernon 4.67
Johnson, Curtis 4.69
Ellis, Chris 4.71
Gatewood, Curtis 4.74
Long, Chris 4.75
Smith, Bryan 4.75
Thompson, Jeremy 4.75
4.67 is the time per the combine web site. 4.64 was probably his first of the two ran.

What is interesting about the 40 for linemen. The ones who can put up a good time while carrying the "ideal weight" for thier position.
The prototypical DE (IMO) is 6-4+, 260+
Of this group Ellis, Long, and Thompson were this or bigger. Ummmmm, I take one of them for our team ....;)

[culpeper]

What is interesting about the 40 for linemen. The ones who can put up a good time while carrying the "ideal weight" for thier position.
The prototypical DE (IMO) is 6-4+, 260+
Of this group Ellis, Long, and Thompson were this or bigger. Ummmmm, I take one of them for our team ....;)

this is my main concern. on that strong side, do we need a guy thats heavier than this? or is 260 enough?

[akhhorus]

<<<

Kampman is the poster child for why you don't throw draft picks away in a heartbeat. He was a 5th round pick. Talk about return on investment. I did say there is some exceptions with the 40. But the best sackers of all time were very fast people. ie Reggie White, Bruce Smith Dexter Manley, Derrick Thomas, Lawrence Taylor.

How many hundreds of 5th rounders had to be drafted before someone like Kampman or Tom Brady popped up? Again: if you expect a Kampman or Brady every time you make a 5th rounder, you'll always be disappointed. Those guys show up once every 5 years if you're lucky.

Thomas and Taylor were OLbs first, all the rest had decent times-but great 10 yards splits.

[Patrick]

this is my main concern. on that strong side, do we need a guy thats heavier than this? or is 260 enough?

Excellent question ............ Ideally (again my opinion) – you always go for the guy who could play both sides comfortably and of course does it well. This requires someone who possesses strength, speed, AND size. There’s only probably one (maybe) two guys a year that can fit that – AND they’re usually gone by the 10th pick. ………… In our case, I’d think we take the best player who would compliment Carter – and if that player’s not there – go for the big DT.

[silverspring]

Great let campbell's stock fall maybe we can trade down, get an extra pick and get him 7 spots lower. I only care how fast he can run 7 yards, and more specifically how fast he can run seven yards through a couple guys.

[Meatsnack]

this is my main concern. on that strong side, do we need a guy thats heavier than this? or is 260 enough?

Depends on how good their technique is. Stahan plays at 265#. Other guys who aren't as flexible and athletic as Strahan have to be bigger to compensate. Chris Long has the natural athleticism to play the RDE at 265 or 270. Gholston is a natural and the guy I have wanted since November. The kid from Wake has potential at about that size. To lock down and anchor the end without a lot of natural athleticism (strong core, flexibility, limb coordination while focusing elsewhere) you are looking at a much bigger kid like the Langston from Hampton or Tyson Jackson from LSU. And, you typically lose the ability to get after the passer at that point.

Calaise Campbell's poor 40 time doesn't concern me nearly as much as the sense that I get that he just plays football because it has always been easy for him. He doesn't dominate, he doesn't play angry. he just doesn't seem to want to be great enough to ever grow into his immense physical gifts.

[Farmer Ted]

Calaise Campbell's poor 40 time doesn't concern me nearly as much as the sense that I get that he just plays football because it has always been easy for him. He doesn't dominate, he doesn't play angry. he just doesn't seem to want to be great enough to ever grow into his immense physical gifts.

Something just doesn't seem right about Campbell; there are too many little red flags. He seems more likely to end up shooting tennis balls out of a canon on American Gladiator than being a big success in the NFL.

[tyrone_rush_fan]

SI.com is reporting Calais also had the fewest bench reps out of any of the defensive lineman- 16.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/02/25/combine.dl/index.html

[Redskin006]

SI.com is reporting Calais also had the fewest bench reps out of any of the defensive lineman- 16.

As bad as that seems, it would make sense that he would have the lowest number of reps on bench press. He is taller than every other defensive lineman there by at least 2 inches and 4 to 5 inches taller than the average defensive lineman at the combine. That translates into much longer arms than the others, thus much more difficulty in pushing up the weight. Also, he is fairly lean for his height compared to other defensive lineman who have "guts" which makes it easier for them to rep the weight because there is an even shorter distance to travel from the stomache/chest to a full extension. That is probably the reason for the low number, but 16 is still too low and he should be somewhere in the mid- 20s range for his reps.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Just say no to Calais. He screams bust.

This small-school Curtis Johnson guy intrigues me.

[colkurtz]

SI.com is reporting Calais also had the fewest bench reps out of any of the defensive lineman- 16.

There are lots of DBs benching 20+. 16 reps is poor for his age and size. Athleticism and strength are key ingredients, the reps also show his commitment to the gym (or lack of it) which is one key to future success in the NFL.

[Warpath23]

Honestly I dont see a D-end worth a 1st round pick at 21. If CB-Cromartie is there at 21 I'd take him in a heart beat & use the 2nd rounder on a DE. I dont see a tremendous drop off in talent from the late 1st round to late 2nd round at the position.

[lorimike]

How many hundreds of 5th rounders had to be drafted before someone like Kampman or Tom Brady popped up? Again: if you expect a Kampman or Brady every time you make a 5th rounder, you'll always be disappointed. Those guys show up once every 5 years if you're lucky.

Thomas and Taylor were OLbs first, all the rest had decent times-but great 10 yards splits.<<<<

Well you've gotta have the picks to be the recipient of the good fortune. How about that year we used a 5th on Dexter Manley? Or that year we used a 5th on Brian Mitchell? But yea your right- much better to have traded them for such sure things as Chad Morton? Right?

[akhhorus]

<<<<

Well you've gotta have the picks to be the recipient of the good fortune. How about that year we used a 5th on Dexter Manley? Or that year we used a 5th on Brian Mitchell? But yea your right- much better to have traded them for such sure things as Chad Morton? Right?

Newsflash: Bobby Beathard, no longer the redskins GM.

[Redskin4Life]

Just say no to Calais. He screams bust.

This small-school Curtis Johnson guy intrigues me.
While his measurables are weak and he might be a bust, if he's available with our 5th rounder... we better take him.

[dj_stouty]

Chris Long really looked good at the combine. I'm glad to see him participate, since he is a virtual top 5 lock.

From what the guys on NFLN have been saying all week; He will probably play a 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE or convert to a 3-4 OLB. I think he can excel at any of those positions.