Jump on the bandwagon!

[Seebs]

Ahhhh Journalists...

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/powerrankings

[REDMAN]

Funny how they do that right!

[Spence]

Whew! They've got a lot more confidence in the Redskins than I do right now!

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
Whew! They've got a lot more confidence in the Redskins than I do right now!

Why is that?

I was BLASTED after my assessment of the game vs the Jets, but we looked very good vs the Falcons. We just need some consistency from Ramsey and we're golden. He's the only (if you want to call it) weak spot on this team right now.
I'm curious as to why you don't have confidence in them right now. He has the Skin EXACTLY where I have the skins.

[Spence]

JSARNO, I didn't blast your assessment after the Jets game. I didn't think the win was horrible because no win is horrible. But I wasn't too impressed by that Jets win either. The Falcons win was better, but... Well, I think I'll leave it for the Power Poll thread. I'll defend my position there. I don't expect it to be popular, but I don't produce anything for this website with that in mind. I suppose I could put the Skins at #1 every week and keep everyone off my back, but I prefer to write stuff I can read with a straight face.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
JSARNO, I didn't blast your assessment after the Jets game. I didn't think the win was horrible because no win is horrible. But I wasn't too impressed by that Jets win either. The Falcons win was better, but... Well, I think I'll leave it for the Power Poll thread. I'll defend my position there. I don't expect it to be popular, but I don't produce anything for this website with that in mind. I suppose I could put the Skins at #1 every week and keep everyone off my back, but I prefer to write stuff I can read with a straight face.

I wasn't saying that you were...just my assessment has changed with the win over the falcons...we looked twice as good! Of course that could be a fluke...but I don't think so. That was too good a game for us defensively, and offensively we are hot and cold, but hotter than colder. I was just asking for your personal assessment.
Where is your power poll?

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by Spence
JSARNO, I didn't blast your assessment after the Jets game. I didn't think the win was horrible because no win is horrible. But I wasn't too impressed by that Jets win either. The Falcons win was better, but... Well, I think I'll leave it for the Power Poll thread. I'll defend my position there. I don't expect it to be popular, but I don't produce anything for this website with that in mind. I suppose I could put the Skins at #1 every week and keep everyone off my back, but I prefer to write stuff I can read with a straight face.

Well..you ranked the Skins #17 last week...

Unless you dropped them in the rankings, I can't see how people would be pissed.

[jsarno]

Never mind...I found it...I didn't realize your name was Thomas.

17...that's surprising. We have a top 3 defense without a doubt...so this must mean you really think our offense blows to be 17th?

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
Never mind...I found it...I didn't realize your name was Thomas.

17...that's surprising. We have a top 3 defense without a doubt...so this must mean you really think our offense blows to be 17th?
Actually, I've got more confidence in our offense than our defense. We haven't faced a real quarterback yet, JS. We haven't faced a top tailback or a top defense yet either. [Although the Jets defense is pretty good.]

Look how Miami squashed the Jets 21-10 on Sunday. I think that puts our 16-13 squeaker into perspective.

[Patrick]

Eight unbeatens and we are at the bottom of that 8 so I can accept being ranked #8. (I'd be pissed if I were a Seattle Fan). Anything less, well everyone entitled to an opinion.

[jsarno]

You're right...it puts the Jets game into perspective. We almost lost to an inferior team (which is what I said right after the game), but the Falcons have a VERY GOOD Defense...better than the Jets.
Just because you guys may not like Johnson doesn't mean he's a terrible QB. That team put up over 25 points a game last year, and they are BETTER this year. Dunn / Duckett is every bit as good as Canidate / Betts. Martin is supposed to be a good tailback, but it appears age has caught up with him...OR their O-Line blows. (I think it's a little of both)

When will you believe in our defense? We have shown to be outstanding. Will you say that the defense had no challenge vs the Giants too?

[jsarno]

By the way spence, my preseason pick of KC in the superbowl is looking good, and they are my #1 pick over Buffalo.

[Spence]

JS, the Falcons have a great offense with Vick. Johnson looked like a backup on Sunday. Having no #2 wideout hurt him, too, because once Champ took Price out of the game [which was inevitable], it left Johnson with little to do.

Atlanta's defense does not do that much for me. I like their front seven, but the secondary is lousy. If Ray Buchanan is your best cornerback your ass is going to get lit up a lot. Watch that happen to the Falcons this year. Plus, they were missing both starting safeties against us.

If the Redskins defense can handle the Giants offense, I'll be impressed and I guarantee the Skins will rise in the hR Power Poll. Perhaps by a lot.

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
By the way spence, my preseason pick of KC in the superbowl is looking good, and they are my #1 pick over Buffalo.
You're looking very good indeed! I debated about whether Buffalo or KC deserved the top spot in the hR Power Poll. In the end, I went with Buffalo because I think their defense is better right now. I think the additions of Sam Adams, Takeo Spikes, and Lawyer Milloy will really help. KC has the better offense, though.

[rhyno]

as far as miami beating the jets: they did beat them pretty soundly, but did you see vinny's numbers? he threw for like 372 yards! The reason they lost was because the can't run the ball. There run d sucks but the erst of there d is pretty good. We straight shut there o down. Whether its because vinny was rusty still or because of our db's can be debated..

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence


If the Redskins defense can handle the Giants offense, I'll be impressed and I guarantee the Skins will rise in the hR Power Poll. Perhaps by a lot.

Fair enough.

I know our defense will show up...question is if the offense will.

[Skinzaholic]

I guess I am with Spence here... allowing a beat up Falcon team to score 31 points still doesnt ring the SuperBowl bell for me.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Skinzaholic
I guess I am with Spence here... allowing a beat up Falcon team to score 31 points still doesnt ring the SuperBowl bell for me.

Other than Vick, what is the difference between the falcons offense this year and last year? (saying finneran being injured doesn't help your cause since we will all agree getting Price is two times better than Finneran ever was)
That offense is still good.

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
Other than Vick, what is the difference between the falcons offense this year and last year? (saying finneran being injured doesn't help your cause since we will all agree getting Price is two times better than Finneran ever was)
That offense is still good.
Other than Vick? You need something more than that? Vick was 3rd in MVP balloting last year. Vick made that team go. Aside from being the quarterback, he often led the team in rushing yards, too. Vick took that team to the playoffs and almost singlehandedly destroyed the Packers in Green Bay in the playoffs. Without Vick, that team would have struggled to win 6 games.

[jsarno]

I 100% disagree. One player does not make that much a difference. Sure he was a very good player, but other than his outstanding running ability, his passing ability is nothing special. Doug Johnson is actually an improvement there. I will go with 8-8, but if it wasn't for that D, they would be no where!

[Spence]

Doug Johnson is NOT an upgrade over Vick as a passer. Vick did a good job passing. [For a second year player, he was great.] He threw for almost 3000 yards and had TWICE as many TD passes as interceptions; an excellent ratio. Then add on the fact that Vick had 777 yard rushing and 8 TDs on the ground. In other words, Vick accounted for 24 TDs and only 8 interceptions! Any quarterback in the league would LOVE to have that kind of production. There is a reason the guy finished third in MVP voting last year. He's a beast.

[jsarno]

#1- did you get my PM?

#2- Vick is a career 52.6% passer...and we all know that is awful. He often held the ball back and ran with it instead of trying to make a pin point throw. He ONLY threw when the guy was wide open. This holds down your TO's which is great, but it doesn't get the rest of your team involved.

#3- Johnson is a much more accurate passer. Pocket passers win the big game, not scramblers.
I'm honestly not saying Johnson is an upgrade, he's not. But he's not that far off. He's an upgrade in terms of throwing the ball...that much is evident. In terms of scrambling and creating...well no one is better than Vick at that, and THAT's why he was 3rd inthe voting. Vick is overrated at this point. I said this exact same thing when Kordell came out of college and awed everyone...and I was right. As a passer he is nothing special at all. This is why McNabb is so good...take away his legs and he stil can produce tons...Vick can't. End of story.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
#1- did you get my PM?

#2- Vick is a career 52.6% passer...and we all know that is awful. He often held the ball back and ran with it instead of trying to make a pin point throw. He ONLY threw when the guy was wide open. This holds down your TO's which is great, but it doesn't get the rest of your team involved.

#3- Johnson is a much more accurate passer. Pocket passers win the big game, not scramblers.
I'm honestly not saying Johnson is an upgrade, he's not. But he's not that far off. He's an upgrade in terms of throwing the ball...that much is evident. In terms of scrambling and creating...well no one is better than Vick at that, and THAT's why he was 3rd inthe voting. Vick is overrated at this point. I said this exact same thing when Kordell came out of college and awed everyone...and I was right. As a passer he is nothing special at all. This is why McNabb is so good...take away his legs and he stil can produce tons...Vick can't. End of story.

I must have been watching different M Vick than you, last year.

I doubt i post in this thread again. i learned my lesson about beating my head against a brick wall last week

:banghead:

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Spence
I suppose I could put the Skins at #1 every week and keep everyone off my back

Damnit, I'm still waiting. I'm starting to lose faith in you pal.:p

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno

#2- Vick is a career 52.6% passer...and we all know that is awful. He often held the ball back and ran with it instead of trying to make a pin point throw. He ONLY threw when the guy was wide open. This holds down your TO's which is great, but it doesn't get the rest of your team involved.

#3- Johnson is a much more accurate passer. Pocket passers win the big game, not scramblers.
I'm honestly not saying Johnson is an upgrade, he's not. But he's not that far off. He's an upgrade in terms of throwing the ball...that much is evident. In terms of scrambling and creating...well no one is better than Vick at that, and THAT's why he was 3rd inthe voting. Vick is overrated at this point. I said this exact same thing when Kordell came out of college and awed everyone...and I was right. As a passer he is nothing special at all. This is why McNabb is so good...take away his legs and he stil can produce tons...Vick can't. End of story.

JS, I was talking about Michael Vick last year, not in his rookie season. The 52.6% completion percentage you cite includes his rookie season, when he completed substantially less than 50 percent. Last year he was over 54% completion, with no elite receivers on the roster.

I don't see how you can say that Vick only threw the ball when receivers were wide open. I'm sorry, but I just don't believe you saw enough Falcons games to say that with any credibility. When I saw Vick he looked like a quarterback who took very good care of the ball. I like that. And a 3-1 TD to Int ratio is magnificent, no matter who we are talking about.

As for Doug Johnson being a much more accurate passer than Vick, I don't know what you are basing that on. Perhaps on Johnson's 16 for 36 day in Atlanta on Sunday?

[JoeDaSchmoe]

We've gotta put things in perspective here. Miami beat the Jets more soundly, yes, but at the same time a Cowboys team that lost to Atlanta just gave the Giants a nasty wake-up call. Should we be cocky about next week, then? Hell no. But playing the "This team beat that team by more than you" game never leads anywhere.

That said, Spence has the Skins on the money right now. That's where I put them yesterday. 17th. This week will be huge as to where they go on the chart.

[Seebs]

Clearly, if we win, it will be a rise in the power poll, if we lost, maybe it won't be a sliding down.

[IowaSkinsFan]

#8 might be pushing it a bit at this point.

[Seebs]

Just jump on the bandwagon ;)

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
JS, I was talking about Michael Vick last year, not in his rookie season. The 52.6% completion percentage you cite includes his rookie season, when he completed substantially less than 50 percent. Last year he was over 54% completion, with no elite receivers on the roster.

As for Doug Johnson being a much more accurate passer than Vick, I don't know what you are basing that on. Perhaps on Johnson's 16 for 36 day in Atlanta on Sunday?

How about the 60% of his passes he completed vs the very good defense of the Cowboys.
Our defense is a TOP 3, right now, it's number 1. Of course he would have trouble with us.
Or hw about the 64.9% he completed in 6 games last year (with those same non elite recievers)? I watched about 4 falcons games last year, and Vick was NOT IMPRESSIVE throwing the ball. Everything else...yes, he was impressive. Great feet...great head (which is unusual) for understanding the ball is in jeopardy, but all you guys are seeing is his scrambling. You're not seeing his over throws, or his tendancy to try to show off his cannon arm. He underthrows a lot as well. He's not a very accurate passer. Watch some game film (if available) of him and concentrate ONLY on that...and don't focus on the fact that he may be scrambling,or anything like thta. Focus on where the ball (if the ball) hits the reciever. Doug Johnson hashim easily there.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Vick was not impressive throwing the ball? Were you, by any chance, watching John Vick, the manager of my local Giant?

[jsarno]

his 54% last year was pretty evident he wasn't that impressive. Or do you choose to ignore the fact that almost 50% of the time he misses his target during his career?
No one is arguing that he doesn't have talent. He has a great arm, good head, great feet...not very good with accuracy right now. Maybe that will come with age...then again...it didn't help Kordell did it?

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Once again, Jsarno, you look way too much into the numbers. Stats don't tell the whole story. Although, if you want to use them, I'm sure you could explain how throwing only 8 INTs is a bad thing while accountng for 24 TDs at the same time.

Oh, and that oh-so-accurate Doug Johnson went 16-for-36 last week.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
Vick was not impressive throwing the ball? Were you, by any chance, watching John Vick, the manager of my local Giant?

:funpost:

I miss Giant Food Stores

[jsarno]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
Once again, Jsarno, you look way too much into the numbers. Stats don't tell the whole story. Although, if you want to use them, I'm sure you could explain how throwing only 8 INTs is a bad thing while accountng for 24 TDs at the same time.

Oh, and that oh-so-accurate Doug Johnson went 16-for-36 last week.

First off, everyone has a bad week once in a while...even hall of famers have bad weeks. Johnson is 60%+ comp. guy...Vick doesn't come close to that.
Second, did you even realize that once defenses started figuring out Vick, he was less effective? His last 5 games he threw 6 int's compared to 7 td's. Doesn't sound like the super stud you all are painting him to be. He also LOST 3 of his last 5 last year if you recall.
Third, if you're going to comment about things, stay within the subject. I'm talking about his passing accuracy which is sub par. Running for 8 td's doesn't factor into this equasion especially when I already said he was the best scrambler in the game. So he had 16 passing td's in 16 starts. Not impressive. Throwing 6 int's in his last 5 games is not impressive either, especially since they were pushing for a playoff spot.
Sometimes a lot of you here comment on heart and not fact. You may like this kid, and that's all fine and dandy, but his throwing is not that impressive at all.

He CAN EASILY be stopped. Tampa proved that, in two games vs tampa last year Vick was non existant...not even scrambling was he effective.
Game 1: 4 for 12, 37 yards 0td, 0int/ 1 rush, 1 yard.
Game 2: 12 for 25, 125, 1td, 1int/ 5 rush, 15 yards.
TOTAL, 16 for 37 43%, 162 YARDS, 1 td, 1 int, 6r - 16 yards. (2.67 yards per carry)
Sticking on the theme of "last 5 games", he was 81 for 169 a completion percentage of 47.9%!!!! Including 11 for 28 vs the unbelievably horrible Vikings Defense...that's only 39.3% by the way.
Let's even put his scrambling into perspective. In his last 4 games last year, he rushed for 134 yards on 32 carries, that's an average of 4.19. For the season he rushed for 796 on 112 carries, that's 7.11 yards per carry. A difference of nearly 3 yards PER CARRY!
Vs Baltimore he was not efficient 12 of 24, 136 yards.
Vs New Orleans he was not efficient 11 of 23, 160 yards.
I've already pointed out Minnesota and Tampa TWICE.
Vs Cleveland 17 of 40 42.5%, funny I don't recall the Brown secondary being anything special.

Doug Johnson threw for 60% vs the Cowboys and thier tough D. I doubt Vick could do that.

Vick has been figured out. He will have to change his ways, or learn a thing or two more in order to be affective in this league. Legs won't get you everywhere, but completion % will make Vick a star. I hope he becomes accurate, but as you can plainly see, he's not accurate yet.
(that's not just stats either..I already explained how he looked in about 4 games last year...I have no reason to diss on Vick, I could care less about the guy, these are just observations the rest of you miss because of being blinded by his speed.)

[skinswin'emALL]

I'm glad you don't scout for a pro team. Based on your posts Doug Johson should have been drafted above M Vick. Even my computer had a hard time just typing that phrase.

That's just wacked.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
I'm glad you don't scout for a pro team. Based on your posts Doug Johson should have been drafted above M Vick. Even my computer had a hard time just typing that phrase.

That's just wacked.


I hope all your posts aren't this ignorant. Please go back and read my comments again.
Johnson and Vick are two completely different QB's...I am saying I'd rather have a pocket passer with 64% completion than a 54% completion scrambler though. I'm am also saying that Vick is not the super stud you all think he is...and I proved it over whelmingly if I may say so myself with those last comments.
This is not to say he coudn't turn into a 60% guy with great scrambling...he COULD. No one knows what's around the corner. If he doesn't, he is the next Kordell Stewart...wooooooh!
I would never take Johnson over Vick (draft wise) because you take the most athletic first. Vick is clearly that guy. If Vick does not come around with better passes and shake off a poor end of season, he will lose his luster quickly.

So don't worry bud...I often see things others don't see...this is because I look deeper than face value. All but Vicks accuracy is top notch...if he can develope that...watch out. I just don't think it's going to happen. He was incosistant a VTech too. It's just his legs made up for it.

[hail2skins]

Vick did not play the entire 1st game vs Tampa last season, so your stats don't compare full games to full games.

[skinswin'emALL]

I won't call you ignorant or any other name because my momma raised better than that.........I only made that comment about the pro/scout draft in fun, however I did re read your posts and you very clearly would rather have Johnson as YOUR starting QB. Myself and others disagree (no harm, no foul).....you imply that you are better than everyone else that post here because you "look deeper than face value" but you are rattling off stats like "stat boy" to prove your point. How is just judging a rookie player by stats alone looking deeper than face value?

And I am not worried 'bud'

Peace, out

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by jsarno
So don't worry bud...I often see things others don't see...this is because I look deeper than face value.

LOL.

We bow down to you, oh wise one. Please empower us with your knowledge.

[skinswin'emALL]

We are not worthy.

[rskinsfan10]

Uh oh.....

[Patrick]

Originally posted by jsarno
I hope all your posts aren't this ignorant. Please go back and read my comments again.
Johnson and Vick are two completely different QB's...I am saying I'd rather have a pocket passer with 64% completion than a 54% completion scrambler though. I'm am also saying that Vick is not the super stud you all think he is...and I proved it over whelmingly if I may say so myself with those last comments.
This is not to say he coudn't turn into a 60% guy with great scrambling...he COULD. No one knows what's around the corner. If he doesn't, he is the next Kordell Stewart...wooooooh!
I would never take Johnson over Vick (draft wise) because you take the most athletic first. Vick is clearly that guy. If Vick does not come around with better passes and shake off a poor end of season, he will lose his luster quickly.

So don't worry bud...I often see things others don't see...this is because I look deeper than face value. All but Vicks accuracy is top notch...if he can develope that...watch out. I just don't think it's going to happen. He was incosistant a VTech too. It's just his legs made up for it.


Hhmmmmm ...... Did you happen to see that the 54% completion scrambler got them into the playoffs and to the Divisional Playoffs. Don't look too deep because sometime you MAY miss the important things!

[Seebs]

Let me play instead of them both and I'll show you who is the most valuable to his team! :D

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by jsarno
So don't worry bud...I often see things others don't see...

Do you see this weekend's lottery numbers?

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by hail2skins
Do you see this weekend's lottery numbers?


:funpost:

I'll settle for the score of the Skins / Gints game.:lolbig:

[jsarno]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
I won't call you ignorant or any other name because my momma raised better than that

I apologize that you took my comment that way. I was not calling YOU ignorant, but the comment ignorant.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Patrick
Hhmmmmm ...... Did you happen to see that the 54% completion scrambler got them into the playoffs and to the Divisional Playoffs. Don't look too deep because sometime you MAY miss the important things!

did you happen to see that the falcons GREAT D only allowed about 19 and a half points per game last year. To put that into perspective...Washington's defense lead by defensive master mind Lewis allowed almost 23 per game. I'm sure that had NOTHING to with their wins!

You guys are handed the info, and you don't even let it absorb. Hey, whatever. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
You seem to think that I am saying that Vick is the worst qb ever. I'm not saying that. HE'S NOT AN ACCURATE QB!!!! Johnson is more accurate. this is not hear say..this is fact. Can't be argued. So why are all of you up in arms? He's not as good as you guys think he is. You'll realize this after he gets back. ESPECIALLY if he is hampered and can't run that well.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
Uh oh.....

Nah...don't worry Kenny...I won't flip out. I'm used to this. Just like when I was making comments last year and everyone blasted me for them...until of course the season ended as I had said it would. Fact is, unless Vick changes his approach and all of a sudden becomes accurate, he'll be another Kordell. Those stats I showed proved he's already been figured out. Let's see how Vick handles it. I was looking forward to watching him this year and seeing if he learned anything in the offseason...but I guess we will all have to wait til he gets back.

hail2skins...those stats do very much apply. 4 for 12 is 33%...he passed for 33%!!!! So if he had 24 passes, he would have completed 8 of them...it's still 33% and he was inaccurate. The whole point is that he was figured out, and he's inaccurate.
None of you have proved otherwise. NONE. I have shown many stats proving my points, backed up by my own watching of the games. What have all of you brought?

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by jsarno
You guys are handed the info, and you don't even let it absorb. Hey, whatever. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

Once again...please forgive us...for we know no better. :sleeping:

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
I apologize that you took my comment that way. I was not calling YOU ignorant, but the comment ignorant.

Hmmmm, so by this logic, you're not calling Vick an inacurate QB -- just his throws. Seems all relative to me. It's OK, I've been called worse by better.

BOTTOM LINE:

Your starting QB fot Atlanta: Johnson

Everyone elses: Vick


No big deal, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, even if everyone else dissagrees. Just ask Sadaam Hussien.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
Hey, whatever. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


Neeeeeeehhhhh.......I found the water! Pee ew, everyone stay away it stinks! Yuck, smells like sewage. I see a bunch of dead fish floating around. I'm thirsty, but I think I'll pass.

Anyone else care for a drink?

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by jsarno
hail2skins...those stats do very much apply. 4 for 12 is 33%...he passed for 33%!!!! So if he had 24 passes, he would have completed 8 of them...it's still 33% and he was inaccurate.

So you're saying that if he had completed that game, he would have finished with a 33% completion rating no matter what?

[skinswin'emALL]

I emailed Stat Boy of PTI, here are some interesting "STATS"

Games with 60% or Higher with at least 20 attempts in 2002:

M Vick - 6 of 14
Harrington - 3 of 16 (0 of 2 this year)
D Carr - 1 of 11 (0 of 2 this year)

Some 2002 playoff QBs with a little more experience:

McNabb - 3 of 10 (5yr) 0 of 2 this yr
Farve - 10 of 16 (12 yr) 1 of 2 this yr
B Johnson - 8 of 13 (13yr) 1 of 2 this yr

Vick had 2 games at 72 and 79%

I guess Harrington and Carr won't be any good either. And don't tell me about Atlanta's offense vs these others -- how many Falcons besides Vick were Fantasy Starters last year. There were 0 in both the leagues i played in last year.

Not that Stats mean anything. Think I'll stick with Vick over Johnson on my Team.

[jsarno]

I will now leave this discussion. You obviously don't want to even THINK there is a flaw in Vick.

I won't even get into how ignorant comparing Carr / Harrington to Vick is. Especially since those TEAMS COMBINED FOR ONLY 7 WINS!
How many times do I have to say it? Vick's athletism is what separates him. I'd love to have Vicks body with Johnson's arm / accuracy. THAT would be a great QB.

ps- you are forgiven DJ :D

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
I will now leave this discussion. You obviously don't want to even THINK there is a flaw in Vick.

I won't even get into how ignorant comparing Carr / Harrington to Vick is. Especially since those TEAMS COMBINED FOR ONLY 7 WINS!
How many times do I have to say it? Vick's athletism is what separates him. I'd love to have Vicks body with Johnson's arm / accuracy. THAT would be a great QB.

ps- you are forgiven DJ :D

Awww, little Tommy is taking his ball and going home.

What does ACCURACY have to do with WINS. Either a QB is Accurate or he is not, period. Not to mention the 3 other QBs had a far more wins (McNabb won 7 games) and a combined 30 years of NFL experince. What about that?

By the way Mr. Accurate, Doug Johnson, lost Sunday.

This is sooo much fun:D

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
I emailed Stat Boy of PTI, here are some interesting "STATS"


I guess Harrington and Carr won't be any good either.

Harrington better be dammit. He is my starter in FF until Vick gets back!:confused: