Just as predicted, the Jets suck!

[jsarno]

you can't lose that many good to great players and replace them with NOTHING and expect to win.
"Without Pennington the Jets will be lucky to win 7." I said that before, and it still stands. The Jets might not even win that many!

[Skins57]

:jetsuk: :jetsuk: :jetsuk: :funpost: :funpost:

[nyjunc]

I'm glad you know what's going to happen the final 14 weeks, we are only 2 weeks into a season and check the last 5 or 6 years and check the jets starts and finishes then get back to me. I'll do the work for you(see below), By the way, i's pretty difficult losing your starting QB a week before the season starts, the Jets will be ok. So far out of the 4 guys we lost to the redskins only 1 has been truly missed and that's randy Thomas. Moss had a game better than any in Coles' Jets history last week, our KRs are doing much better than Morton and our K is 100%.

Since we became one of the better teams in the league, here are our starts and how we ended up:

1997- started 1-2 ended up 9-7 i game shy of a playoff berth.
1998- staretd 0-2 ended up 12-4 won AFC East reached AFC Title game.
1999- started 0-3, 1-6 ended up 8-8 missed playoffs by 1 game.
2000- only year we started fast but we finished slow, we were 4-0 and 6-1 but lost last 3 games to miss playoffs.
2001- started 1-2 finished 10-6 and made playoffs
2002- started 1-4, 2-5 and we were outscored in games 2-4 102-13 yet we came back to win AFC East and make 2nd rd of playoffs.

We're far from done, we're just slow starters. It's great to judge teams on 2 games but it's a long season. I remember when we were 2-5 last year and we travelled to 6-1 SD. Everyone was talking SB for tha Chargers and top pick for the Jets yet the Jets went on to the playoffs while the Chargers missed them. It's a long season.

[Seebs]

Totally agree with NYJ even if i hav some doubts on a positive final outcome of the season for the jets. Jets can finish 14-2 and we can finish 2-14. You never know with football.

But I take hall over everything we had for 10 years at kicker, and I take Coles over 99% of the NFL WR everyday!

[GolfFreak]

I don't think anyone is down on Hall for missing a 50+ FG ... come one, he's already made 2 from over 50. I'll take 1 a game from that distance any day.

I'm not going to write off the Jets just yet, especially they way Vinny played last week. However, they should use Martin more ...

[dj_stouty]

I agree that it is too early to pull the curtain over the Jets.

However, I think the Jets REALLY miss Coles. I know that Moss had a nice 100 yard day, but that happens to many wide receivers in the NFL. Proclaiming Moss can be the answer to Coles in week 2 is just as bad as us saying the Jets are toast in week two.

[jsarno]

Sorry boys...the Jets do not look like anything special. There was some stat about 40 year old QBs not making the playoffs...I wish I could remember it but it was three weeks ago.

Must I remind you NYJUNC that Vinny (coincidentally enough the same QB leading you now) was the man that lead you to that terrible 1-4 start? PENNINGTON is your savior. He is gone. Martin is HEALTHY yet can't get any yards.
Yes, I am counting them out. If I had a million dollars I'd bet they won't make the playoffs. I KNOW they won't. Just like Arizona won't. This is not rocket science. You lose that many key players and you're bound to have problems.

ps- I was the one that stuck up for Moss and I know he has talent...I said he needed to be the #1 wr, you said that Conway will fill Coles shoes with no problem.
PS- Compare Coles to Moss right now, and see what you come up with. Compare Coles to Conway and see what you come up with too.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Moss had a game better than any in Coles' Jets history last week

That's funny.... Coles also had a game better than any in Coles' Jets history last week. :D

I'm nowhere near counting the Jets out, this team has shown way too much over the past few years to go down this early.

[jsarno]

Just so you don't have to look them up...here are the stats from the three.

CONWAY
1- 2 / 28 - 0
2- 5 / 81 - 0
T- 7 / 109 - 0

MOSS
1- 3 / 12 - 0
2- 5 / 142 - 1
T- 8 / 154 - 1

COLES
1- 5 / 106 - 0
2- 11 / 180 - 1
T- 16 / 286 - 1

MOSS AND CONWAY COMBINED VS COLES
m& c- 15 / 263 - 1
coles 16 / 286 - 1

Hmmm, coles is out performing your two best recievers by himself. And he DESTROYING your Ace Conway (the one you said would fill his shoes with no problem) by 9 receptions and 177 yards.

All this proves is that thus far you have been grossly incorrect. Hey, we're all fans and are entitled to seeing this rose colored glasses. I just don't see how you can possibly think you'll beat the Dolphins / Bills / Pats this year. That's NOT going to happen. Not with Vinny...you would have had better chances if you traded for Brunell...but this season is a bust without Pennington.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
Moss had a game better than any in Coles' Jets history last week

Are you sure you don't want to rethink that statement?
(just call me stat man since I live for this stuff...)

week 13:
COLES 13 rec for 158 yards AT OAKLAND.

Hmmmm, that's 8 MORE receptions and 16 MOREyards.

In fact, Coles had more than 5 catches 8 times last year. (5 or more all but three games)

[BigCountry]

nycjunk is what you're tryin to tell us here is that Santana Moss isn't a downgrade to Coles?

[nyjunc]

ps- I was the one that stuck up for Moss and I know he has talent...I said he needed to be the #1 wr, you said that Conway will fill Coles shoes with no problem.

I never said that. I said Conway would do a good job replacing much of what Coles did here but not fully, I said the combo of Moss stepping up and Conway being Conway would be enough and so far it has been.
The pass O hasn't been the problem, it's the running game.


That's funny.... Coles also had a game better than any in Coles' Jets history last week.

That is true but to be expected, you guys throw alot more than we did and do.

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
Are you sure you don't want to rethink that statement?
(just call me stat man since I live for this stuff...)

week 13:
COLES 13 rec for 158 yards AT OAKLAND.

Hmmmm, that's 8 MORE receptions and 16 MOREyards.

In fact, Coles had more than 5 catches 8 times last year. (5 or more all but three games)

I'm not talking about just #s. Santana turned what should have been an 8 yard gain into a 60 yard gain and LC very rarely did that here. Look at the avg per reception and it's not close. Santana made more of an impact in the fewer # of catches than Coles did w/ his 13.

nycjunk is what you're tryin to tell us here is that Santana Moss isn't a downgrade to Coles?

First off spell my user name right. It's very childish to twist it like that. Next, no I am not saying Moss is better than Coles at this point. We have definitely downgraded at our #1 WR but w/ our trio I think we are just as good, if not better than last year at WR mainly b/c of the emergence of Moss.

[dj_stouty]

Well...Pennington is known for throwing lots of short passes, so even if you were to break one, you would still have a smaller average than other WRs in the league. Also, Moss averaged 14.4 yards per catch last season while Coles averaged 14.2. Not much difference.

BTW - I reallly like you new avitar, nyjunc!

[nyjunc]

Thanks, A poster at another of the sites I post on made it for me.

[Skins57]

nyjunc, I agree that is one cool avatar atleast half of it. I am a Tar Heels fan also
I know it is too early to count anyone out, I just wanted to use the Jets smilie

[BigCountry]

I miss spelled it nothing intentional so you can remain calm...

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
I never said that. I said Conway would do a good job replacing much of what Coles did here but not fully, I said the combo of Moss stepping up and Conway being Conway would be enough and so far it has been.
The pass O hasn't been the problem, it's the running game.


That doesn't make any sense...you are trying to tell me that all along you said that your 2 receivers would match the production of ONE receiver?
It has not been good enough. Only MOSS LAST WEEK had a good game. And doing it on 5 catches means he had big YAC, not that the passing game was effective. Conway is pretty much doing piss poor. Any decent DB shuts him down.
We could keep going back and forth, but it won't get us anywhere, you won't fully understand until Vinny leads you into last place. I can understand you're enthusiasm, hell, we're all fans. We ALL understand! Good luck to the you and the Jets.

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
That doesn't make any sense...you are trying to tell me that all along you said that your 2 receivers would match the production of ONE receiver?
It has not been good enough. Only MOSS LAST WEEK had a good game. And doing it on 5 catches means he had big YAC, not that the passing game was effective. Conway is pretty much doing piss poor. Any decent DB shuts him down.
We could keep going back and forth, but it won't get us anywhere, you won't fully understand until Vinny leads you into last place. I can understand you're enthusiasm, hell, we're all fans. We ALL understand! Good luck to the you and the Jets.

How doesn't that make sense? Instead of most of the balls going to 1 WR as it did w/ Coles last year it will be more spread out this year. By the way, Conway had 5 catches for 81 yds last week, that's not exactly piss poor. Also, Chrebet had 7 catches so btw the 3 that's 17 recs- that's a pretty good day and I'll take it every week.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
How doesn't that make sense? Instead of most of the balls going to 1 WR as it did w/ Coles last year it will be more spread out this year. By the way, Conway had 5 catches for 81 yds last week, that's not exactly piss poor. Also, Chrebet had 7 catches so btw the 3 that's 17 recs- that's a pretty good day and I'll take it every week.

Two of your guys are equalling ONE COLES. How hard is it for two guys to equal one guy. Your whole WR staff can't even match TWO of the Skins. (Gardner / Coles...23 receptions LAST WEEK ALONE!) If it's working so well for you, why are you 0-2? When Coles was budding up to Chad, YOU WERE WINNING. Right now you are not. Coles is amazing and you lost a HUGE talent! If Moss emerges from mediocrity (is the only one on the Jets that has the talent to) will you let him go via free agency as well, then pick up another has been?
Starting the season 0-3 will not be good for you...you NEED to beat the Pats this week.

[nyjunc]

If it's working so well for you, why are you 0-2?

I know I've mentioned this several times but I'll do so again. It's b/c of our non-existent running game. Once we get Curtis on track we will be fine and I expect a good game from him today. I love how you are making season judgements based on 2 games. If we did that last year then you what would you have thought of Coles? In the first 3 games he had a total of 6 catches for 46 yards and the Jets were 1-2. It's way too early to make season long judgements based on the first 2 games.

[jsarno]

you're right it's too early...but as of right now...if you keep teh SAME PERSONEL you will not do anything. Last year you changed it up and finally let Pennington take the controls.

I uderstand what you're saying about the run...I heard you the first time...but you said "it's working for us". NOTHING IS WORKING IF YOU LOSE. The whole point is to win. If you do not, it doesn't matter. (besides, last weeks numbers were inflated. Just watch the passing numbers come back down to earth this week)

[nyjunc]

We were badly banged up and had alot of new players last year so it took time. Chad came in at the right time, he did key the turn around but it wasn't Vinny's fault for the slow start.

So far at the half Vinny is 14 of 20 for 149 yds and it would be much better if Chrebet didn't step out of bounds before he caught a long TD. It should be 13-6 right now instead of 6-6 and like last week Vinny is playing well and the running game is struggling though Curtis has looked a bit better.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
We were badly banged up and had alot of new players last year so it took time. Chad came in at the right time, he did key the turn around but it wasn't Vinny's fault for the slow start.

So far at the half Vinny is 14 of 20 for 149 yds and it would be much better if Chrebet didn't step out of bounds before he caught a long TD. It should be 13-6 right now instead of 6-6 and like last week Vinny is playing well and the running game is struggling though Curtis has looked a bit better.

You played a division rival DESSIMATED by injuries, and you still lost.
You are pretty much fully healthy (other than Pennington who we willboth agree is the reason you won lost year)...but you're 0-3. Are you seeing the signs yet?

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
You played a division rival DESSIMATED by injuries, and you still lost.
You are pretty much fully healthy (other than Pennington who we willboth agree is the reason you won lost year)...but you're 0-3. Are you seeing the signs yet?

Alright I admit it we stink! We comletely gave that game away yesterday, we should have won by at least 2 TDs. Just too many easy plays weren't made.

By the way, I don't agree that Chad was the reason for our success last year. He was a big part of it but alot of things happened to make us so good so I wouldn't say he was THE reason just one of the reasons.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
Alright I admit it we stink! We comletely gave that game away yesterday, we should have won by at least 2 TDs. Just too many easy plays weren't made.

By the way, I don't agree that Chad was the reason for our success last year. He was a big part of it but alot of things happened to make us so good so I wouldn't say he was THE reason just one of the reasons.

Absolutely Chad was one of the reasons. So was Hall, Thomas, and Coles. (pennington had a little to do with it too) :D

You guys have the pansy Cowpatties this week. If you lose to them, you better pack in the season.

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
Absolutely Chad was one of the reasons. So was Hall, Thomas, and Coles. (pennington had a little to do with it too) :D

You guys have the pansy Cowpatties this week. If you lose to them, you better pack in the season.

If we lose this week then I think it might be officially over but we will not lsoe this week, I guarantee it! This week reminds me alot of last year's home game vs. Minnesota. We were 1-4 at the time instead of 0-3 and we scratched out a W 20-7 and started to get back on track. After we beat dallas and are 1-3 we then have a bye and Buff at home and if we can beat Buf we will be roght back in it.

By the way, beat the Pats this week.

[TexSkin]

I still don't get this Jets-Skins hate thing. I thought this would be over with once the game was. We are not in the same division and won't play each other for a long time. Who cares. Worry about the Giants, Cowboys and Eagles.They are the teams I hope stink it up not the Jets.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
If we lose this week then I think it might be officially over but we will not lsoe this week, I guarantee it! This week reminds me alot of last year's home game vs. Minnesota. We were 1-4 at the time instead of 0-3 and we scratched out a W 20-7 and started to get back on track. After we beat dallas and are 1-3 we then have a bye and Buff at home and if we can beat Buf we will be roght back in it.

You HAVE to have this win. If you lose it, it is over. If you lose coming out of the bye week it's over. If you can somehow beat both, I was grossly miscalculating the Jets. I just don't see it.
By the way, I am taking your word for it, and I have the Jets giving the Cowpatties 2.5. You better pull that out! ;)

By the way, beat the Pats this week.

I'll make you a deal...you beat the Cowpatties, and we'll beat the Patsies!
I feel that if we can just drop our penalties in half, we'll beat anyone...including hte injury riddled pats.

[jsarno]

1- anyone still doubting my comments that initiated this thread now?
2- NYJUNC, I thought we had a deal...we beat the pats, you beat the cowpatties...what the hell was that?

[BigCountry]

Cowboys aren't as bad as we thought.

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
1- anyone still doubting my comments that initiated this thread now?
2- NYJUNC, I thought we had a deal...we beat the pats, you beat the cowpatties...what the hell was that?

We are done. I didn't give up at 1-4, 2-5 last year but the team quit yesterday and we are no doubt done this year(although our division stinks so maybe....nah). We can't run yet we continue to try to force the run, we turned it over twice leading to 2 TDs. WE are as bad now as we were pre-Parcells and that's pretty bad. We have talent but for some reason it's not showing up.

[jsarno]

when is pennington coming back? Any new news?

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
when is pennington coming back? Any new news?

There was talk he might be ready for the Giant game 11/2 but w/ the season probably out of reach by then I hope they take it a little slower.

[TexSkin]

Yeah I agree no need to rush Pennington out if the season is out of hand by then. Let the Rookie play and get some experience.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by nyjunc
There was talk he might be ready for the Giant game 11/2 but w/ the season probably out of reach by then I hope they take it a little slower.


Sorry bud...it's never easy to come to the conclusion your team doesn't have a shot.
I'm sure you'll get some decent free agents next year.

Is Herman on the block now?

[nyjunc]

Originally posted by jsarno
Sorry bud...it's never easy to come to the conclusion your team doesn't have a shot.
I'm sure you'll get some decent free agents next year.

Is Herman on the block now?

Looking at the positives I guess I should be thankful, after years and years and years and years and years and years of losing we had a nice run of non-losing seasons. Our last year we weren't in contention and had a losing record was 1996, I think w/ good health and a few offseason moves we'll be back in the hunt next year.

[jsarno]

key on a few offseason moves. You're just a little weak talent wise. I thought you fairly talented last year, but you decided to let all your good players (other than pennington and Moss) go. Your D still isn't that bad, but when you're on the field all the time, that wears down any defense.

[Skinsfan1906]

Originally posted by jsarno
key on a few offseason moves. You're just a little weak talent wise. I thought you fairly talented last year, but you decided to let all your good players (other than pennington and Moss) go. Your D still isn't that bad, but when you're on the field all the time, that wears down any defense.

Well, the D has some players, but is average at best. I REALLY like John Abraham....ALOT. Heck of a player. I see weaknesses at LB (Mo Lewis is to old and the others are average at best). The Defensive secondary could use some help at corner and safety. I think that Chad will help them next year, but other players, ESPECIALLY THE $54 MILLION DOLLAR ROOKIE D-ROB have to play up to thier potential.

[nyjunc]

:doh:

[jsarno]

I forgot about this thread...hey, you have a chance at winning this week again...maybe you'll pull out of it if Pennington can hurry back.

[nyjunc]

I don't want to get ahead of myself but we might be climbing back in this race. Incredibly we are in better shape now than a year ago. A year ago we were 2-4 and the Dolphins were 6-1 while the division leader now is NE at 5-2. I don't think NE or Miami is a powerhouse and I think we can get back in this. Chad will be back against Philly on Snday and we are finally getting a ground game and Moss is really emerging. I just hope Philly plays like they did aginst the Giants again this week.

[jsarno]

PENNINGTON IS BACK ALREADY????

Well good luck to you. I have Moss in a lot of fantasy leagues...I need his stats! :D

I think you are underestimating both the Dolphins and Pats. But that's just me.

[nyjunc]

Vinny is starting vs. Philly but Chad will be coming in in the 2nd qtr. They did it like this b/c they feared Chad would be out of gas by the 4th so instead of starting him they are bringing him back off the bench.

I am worried about NE b/c they have continued to wind espite injuries but I am not worried about Miami at all. I'm more worried about Buffalo than Miami and actually I would make Buf the favorite to win the east.

[jsarno]

Yeah, but Buffalo shows too much incosistancy. If they can pull it together I think you're right.