Skins Trade for DE Erasmus James [post #39 for link]

[Skins7ny]

James was released by the Vikings today. I remember hearing that he was coached by our DL coach John Palemo in college. I remember liking him when he came out of college. I know he had injury problems in Minnesota, and never did much there, but maybe a change of scenery with his college coach might be the prescription to get his career on track. I wonder if we are in contact with his agent. I don't know if he has to pass through waivers first, but I hope we take a look at him.

[Skins7ny]

I just checked PFT, apparently he failed the Vikings' physical. However, we could sign him and wait for him to heal, if our doctors' prognosis is good. It is even possible he passes our physical despite failing theirs-that is not unheard of. Like Andrew Crummey, it is worth waiting a bit for a young prospect to get healthy, especially if he is cheap and he can be ready for training camp, or even by the middle of the season (that is what the PUP list is for). While neither James nor Crummey are established enough to make the 53-man roster without proving themselves in training camp, I hope we at least consider signing James. After missing out on Calais Campbell in round 2, it would be nice to get a guy for Palermo to work with whom he coached to great success in college (this time Wisconsin, not Miami).

[hail2skins]

The title of this thread is very misleading. You make it sounds as if we've shown interest in him already. I will change it to make it clearer.

[colkurtz]

Why did he fail the physical? Obviously the Vikings didn't want to wait for him to get better.

[shally]

hasnt been healthy his entire career

a poorer version of courtney brown.. probably has a fture with the broncos

[Meatsnack]

Whether we pick him up or not, I still say Erasmus James is one of the great football names, ever. It isn't in the stratosphere with the likes of "Dick Butkus" but it is a great name.

[skinsfan36]

if healthy he may be worth a look in camp if no other options

[Hrabanmaur]

Might be worth a look to get some vet depth, but only for at the right price. His poor health and lack of performance despite some of the best DTs in the league would suggest he's not an improvement over Daniels.

[Hr fan]

Not a warrior at this level, and counter to the hard-nosed player of our last draft. Pass.

[coffdogg]

James was released by the Vikings today. I remember hearing that he was coached by our DL coach John Palemo in college. I remember liking him when he came out of college. I know he had injury problems in Minnesota, and never did much there, but maybe a change of scenery with his college coach might be the prescription to get his career on track. I wonder if we are in contact with his agent. I don't know if he has to pass through waivers first, but I hope we take a look at him.We don't have anything to lose. He can't cost too much and if he is looking to become a starter eventually then all him and his agent have to do is look at our depth chart. I say sign him,rehab him and work to make him an asset to the team.

[Skins-fo-life]

What side of the line does he play on?

[chrisbcbu]

What side of the line does he play on?

The sideline.

[JsMaViSd]

id take a look at him. it couldnt hurt

[Skins-fo-life]

The sideline.

Thats a great answer and true. lol. But not the answer i was looking for.

[X-Factor13]

id take a look at him. it couldnt hurt

The problem is that looking at him may actually hurt him

[Skins7ny]

The title of this thread is very misleading. You make it sounds as if we've shown interest in him already. I will change it to make it clearer.
Thanks! Didn't mean to mislead anyone.
Not a warrior at this level, and counter to the hard-nosed player of our last draft. Pass.
I don't know why you say that, Hr. The stories I've read say that he got 4 sacks his rookie year and showed a lot of promise. He then tore up his knee and worked very hard to come back. When he came back, he didn't get much playing time at first. Soon after they re-inserted him into the rotation, he tore up the same knee again. Sounds like the kid has had very bad luck, and it is questionable if he will ever regain the skill that he showed his rookie year. But it can be done, I remember Kyle Vanden Bosch was in a similar situation with the Cardinals, and they cut him. The Titans gave him a chance, and he has been lights out for them since. Seems like a low-ris proposition to bring him in and let him work with Palermo, who coached him into a 1st-round pick at Wisconsin.

[Skins7ny]

What side of the line does he play on?

He played left end for the Vikes. He is listed at 6-4, 266.http://http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/413640

[silverspring]

I don't know why you say that, Hr. The stories I've read say that he got 4 sacks his rookie year and showed a lot of promise. He then tore up his knee and worked very hard to come back. When he came back, he didn't get much playing time at first. Soon after they re-inserted him into the rotation, he tore up the same knee again. Sounds like the kid has had very bad luck, and it is questionable if he will ever regain the skill that he showed his rookie year. But it can be done, I remember Kyle Vanden Bosch was in a similar situation with the Cardinals, and they cut him. The Titans gave him a chance, and he has been lights out for them since. Seems like a low-ris proposition to bring him in and let him work with Palermo, who coached him into a 1st-round pick at Wisconsin.

This is a tough point to argue. Bring him in on an essential vet min for a 2 year contract and see what happens. The only issue I see is that finding a roster spot for him might be tough.
However I would assume that Palmero would advocate for him if he likes him, we might not be moving on him because palmero doesn't think much of him. The knee might also be more significantly damaged than we think.

[shally]

This is a tough point to argue. Bring him in on an essential vet min for a 2 year contract and see what happens. The only issue I see is that finding a roster spot for him might be tough.
However I would assume that Palmero would advocate for him if he likes him, we might not be moving on him because palmero doesn't think much of him. The knee might also be more significantly damaged than we think.

granted neither wilson nor buzbee has shown any of the college level performance that james did.. but if you just take pro level play, i would take either of those 2 guys on the potential to suit up every week. it does no good that james was a tremendous player at wisconsin if he cant get out of the trainers room year in and year out.

my hope is that both buzbee and wilson have shown enough in the weight room to anticipate production from them this year that makes it unnecessary to take a chance on james.. we almost lost buzbee to KC last year, so i would hate to lose him this year so that we could hope james is over his injury woes.

i could understand getting jason taylor over either of those 2 young guys based upon his production... but not erasmus james..

[colkurtz]

As we discussed with the Jason Taylor thread, the team's philosophy toward FA has changed completely with Zorn and I'm guessing with Cerratto. They want younger, players already on the Redskin's roster and the new draft picks / UDFA. I think everyone on the property now will get their full chance to perform and show what they have got.

The transition from at high-turnover, older and FA fueled team to one making additions via the draft and UDFA will take more than one season. It will take a vision which rejects the quick-fix FA that has tempted the team in the past. This is the path they will follow for at least this season and beyond - especially if the team has a good or better season (.500 or above).

So no, I doubt they have any interest in Ersamus James, at any price.

[Skins7ny]

It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. Palermo is going to be working with 8 or 9 DEs in camp , and James should be one of them unless his knee injury is a career-ender or Palermo doesn't want him. Right now we have 9 DEs on our roster. Isn't James worth looking at in camp over someone like Tommy Davis or Kevin Huntley, who have bounced around the fringes of the league for several years?

[Skins7ny]

As we discussed with the Jason Taylor thread, the team's philosophy toward FA has changed completely with Zorn and I'm guessing with Cerratto. They want younger, players already on the Redskin's roster and the new draft picks / UDFA. I think everyone on the property now will get their full chance to perform and show what they have got.

The transition from at high-turnover, older and FA fueled team to one making additions via the draft and UDFA will take more than one season. It will take a vision which rejects the quick-fix FA that has tempted the team in the past. This is the path they will follow for at least this season and beyond - especially if the team has a good or better season (.500 or above).

So no, I doubt they have any interest in Ersamus James, at any price.

Right now, Erasmus James is a reclamation project, and any comparisons to Jason Taylor are ridiculous. Unlike Taylor, James will not cost us any draft picks, and will sign a veteran minimum deal with no signing bonus. The fact that he was a first-round draft choice and had a name coming out of college shouldn't disqualify him from getting a look-see. Signing him is not going to fracture our locker room and will cost us nothing except someone else's roster spot, and chances are whomever we cut to make room for James is someone who would be getting cut next month anyway when we sign all our draft choices (we have to cut one player for every draftee who signs their contract).

Signing James would be nothing like the short-sighted splashy moves that have gotten us in trouble before. It would be a no-risk proposition, getting a player when his stock is at its lowest and trying to turn him into gold, which is the polar opposite of the mistakes we have made in the past.

[colkurtz]

Right now, Erasmus James is a reclamation project, and any comparisons to Jason Taylor are ridiculous. Unlike Taylor, James will not cost us any draft picks, and will sign a veteran minimum deal with no signing bonus. The fact that he was a first-round draft choice and had a name coming out of college shouldn't disqualify him from getting a look-see. Signing him is not going to fracture our locker room and will cost us nothing except someone else's roster spot, and chances are whomever we cut to make room for James is someone who would be getting cut next month anyway when we sign all our draft choices (we have to cut one player for every draftee who signs their contract).

Signing James would be nothing like the short-sighted splashy moves that have gotten us in trouble before. It would be a no-risk proposition, getting a player when his stock is at its lowest and trying to turn him into gold, which is the polar opposite of the mistakes we have made in the past.

I'm not disagreeing with ANY of your logic. James, Taylor or other FA should be players we should certainly consider at DE, because I think we are still very weak at that position. I don't want to see another year of Philip Daniels.

All I'm saying is that it appears that Zorn and Snyderatto have made a big philosophical reversal toward how they are adding players to this franchise and that they seem content to play the hand they have now. I don't think they will add any players like Erasmus this season.

Personally, i think Blanche will only play out this season only as the Defensive Coordinator, then retire. Then Zorn will bring in his own man for the position and Zorn will give him the 2009 draft to create a new defense - which will include big upgrades at DE.

I'd rather see a FA addition like Jason Taylor because he has played injury-fee and has consistently provided sacks, even though he is 33.

[RedskinRyan]

hasnt been healthy his entire career

a poorer version of courtney brown.. probably has a fture with the broncos

Hahahaha so true. I'm really not a fan of picking up another team's trash.

[shally]

Hahahaha so true. I'm really not a fan of picking up another team's trash.

he is young enough so that he does have some redemption potential, but he has been a bust so far.. again, as with brown, he just seems to be a guy who cant stay healthy and you have to wonder whether it is bad luck, bad training, or simply his body unable to cope with the violence at the pro level

again, i would tend to say, pass...

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

he is young enough so that he does have some redemption potential, but he has been a bust so far.. again, as with brown, he just seems to be a guy who cant stay healthy and you have to wonder whether it is bad luck, bad training, or simply his body unable to cope with the violence at the pro level

again, i would tend to say, pass...
As much as I liked James' potential in '05 I seriously question whether he can contribute this year at all with his injury concerns. Quite frankly, I'm not wild about Jason Taylor either. Seems too focused on his next career. The player I would like to see the Skins take a look at if he becomes available is Matt Roth DE Miami. The Phins acquired a lot of Dlineman this off season and he doesn't fit a 3-4 defense, so he may not make the roster either. Similar in size & style to Aaron Kampman.

[akhhorus]

Can't be worse than Treebeard Daniels.

[shally]

Can't be worse than Treebeard Daniels.

roth has a decent upside, even if he doesnt fit parcells scheme exactly.. he is young enough that i bet tuna tries to make a LB out of him the way he did with greg ellis

[HanburgerBum]

Right now, Erasmus James is a reclamation project, and any comparisons to Jason Taylor are ridiculous. Unlike Taylor, James will not cost us any draft picks, and will sign a veteran minimum deal with no signing bonus. The fact that he was a first-round draft choice and had a name coming out of college shouldn't disqualify him from getting a look-see. Signing him is not going to fracture our locker room and will cost us nothing except someone else's roster spot, and chances are whomever we cut to make room for James is someone who would be getting cut next month anyway when we sign all our draft choices (we have to cut one player for every draftee who signs their contract).

Signing James would be nothing like the short-sighted splashy moves that have gotten us in trouble before. It would be a no-risk proposition, getting a player when his stock is at its lowest and trying to turn him into gold, which is the polar opposite of the mistakes we have made in the past.


It seems that if there was room for Mathis a while back, there must be room for James for a look-see. If his injury or his play shows no sign of improvement, he is gone. As you said, there is no risk here.

[coffdogg]

Right now, Erasmus James is a reclamation project, and any comparisons to Jason Taylor are ridiculous. Unlike Taylor, James will not cost us any draft picks, and will sign a veteran minimum deal with no signing bonus. The fact that he was a first-round draft choice and had a name coming out of college shouldn't disqualify him from getting a look-see. Signing him is not going to fracture our locker room and will cost us nothing except someone else's roster spot, and chances are whomever we cut to make room for James is someone who would be getting cut next month anyway when we sign all our draft choices (we have to cut one player for every draftee who signs their contract).

Signing James would be nothing like the short-sighted splashy moves that have gotten us in trouble before. It would be a no-risk proposition, getting a player when his stock is at its lowest and trying to turn him into gold, which is the polar opposite of the mistakes we have made in the past.Excellent points all around. I hope we give him a shot. low risk, high reward signing potential in my opinion

[coffdogg]

The sideline.FUNNY

[coffdogg]

The problem is that looking at him may actually hurt himpretty funny

[Hrabanmaur]

I'm not disagreeing with ANY of your logic. James, Taylor or other FA should be players we should certainly consider at DE, because I think we are still very weak at that position. I don't want to see another year of Philip Daniels.

All I'm saying is that it appears that Zorn and Snyderatto have made a big philosophical reversal toward how they are adding players to this franchise and that they seem content to play the hand they have now. I don't think they will add any players like Erasmus this season.

I agree that we are weak at the DE position, but I don't think there's been a huge philosophical reversal on the part of the FO that would preclude the signing of someone like Erasmus. Just a couple of months ago, we were willing to trade two first round draft picks for Chad Johnson. Is that a major philosophical change?

If anything, I think there's been a more subtle philosophical change of seeking value in FA among mid- to lower- level talent. We made low ball offers to Hackett and Mathis rather than overpaying for mediocrity, which is somewhat of a change. In Gibbs days, we were willing to pay more for that coveted "veteran experience".

In short, I don't see any philosophy that prevents us from acquiring James based on principle. The question for the guys in the FO (and Palermo and Blache) is whether this guy is worthy of pursuit based on his past performance, his health, and his attitude.

[Skins-fo-life]

James may could get picked up by someone. He has to pass through waivers first. More than likely he will and have a chance to sign with anyone. I don't know how hurt he is though.

[Skins7ny]

I'm not disagreeing with ANY of your logic. James, Taylor or other FA should be players we should certainly consider at DE, because I think we are still very weak at that position. I don't want to see another year of Philip Daniels.

All I'm saying is that it appears that Zorn and Snyderatto have made a big philosophical reversal toward how they are adding players to this franchise and that they seem content to play the hand they have now. I don't think they will add any players like Erasmus this season.
Personally, i think Blanche will only play out this season only as the Defensive Coordinator, then retire. Then Zorn will bring in his own man for the position and Zorn will give him the 2009 draft to create a new defense - which will include big upgrades at DE.

I'd rather see a FA addition like Jason Taylor because he has played injury-fee and has consistently provided sacks, even though he is 33.
I am saying I would consider James (if he has a good medical prognosis) over Taylor because James will cost us nothing and has upside and we have the DL coach who got it out of him in college.
"Any players like Erasmus"-I don't understand what you mean by that. What type of player is Erasmus? Are you saying that Snyderatto is categorically against bringing in talented players who have been released because of injury issues? That is exactly what they did with Mathis (who also had character issues James does not have, as far as I know). What is the downside, except for a marginal DE prospect getting cut?
I doubt that Blache is committed to the guys already in the building unless those guys are named Daniels, Carter, Wilson, Evans and Jackson. I don't think any other DE on the roster is necessarily guaranteed to make it to the opening of camp.
I agree that we are weak at the DE position, but I don't think there's been a huge philosophical reversal on the part of the FO that would preclude the signing of someone like Erasmus. Just a couple of months ago, we were willing to trade two first round draft picks for Chad Johnson. Is that a major philosophical change?

If anything, I think there's been a more subtle philosophical change of seeking value in FA among mid- to lower- level talent. We made low ball offers to Hackett and Mathis rather than overpaying for mediocrity, which is somewhat of a change. In Gibbs days, we were willing to pay more for that coveted "veteran experience".

In short, I don't see any philosophy that prevents us from acquiring James based on principle. The question for the guys in the FO (and Palermo and Blache) is whether this guy is worthy of pursuit based on his past performance, his health, and his attitude.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I haven't heard anything about James having a bad attitude, but if so that would be a huge red flag. Presumably, Palermo would know, so it will be interesting to see if we make a move for him.
he is young enough so that he does have some redemption potential, but he has been a bust so far.. again, as with brown, he just seems to be a guy who cant stay healthy and you have to wonder whether it is bad luck, bad training, or simply his body unable to cope with the violence at the pro level

again, i would tend to say, pass...

It may be any of those things. However, the same thing happened with Vanden Bosch and any number of other players. I think James gets one more opportunity to stay healthy and contribute somewhere in the league. Given his talent level pre-injury, and Palermo's history with him, I hope that chance comes here. If Palermo doesn't want him, or if he wants a signing bonus or more than veteran minimum, I would pass. But otherwise, what is the downside? We certainly need young talent at the position, and he is worth looking at if his medical prognosis is decent.

[redwolf1218]

The sideline.

now THAT was funny.

i guess Palermo would know if James is any good.

[redwolf1218]

The problem is that looking at him may actually hurt him

hahahaha...this is a tough crowd...

i believe he played at right defensive end.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I just heard on 980 that the Skins have traded a 7th rounder for James. I thought he would have cleared waivers by now? Also how can the Vikes get anything for him since they already cut him? Sorry no link, radio.

Edit: link (http://www.redskins.com/news/multimedia.jsp)

[bergiemoore]

I just heard on 980 that the Skins have traded a 7th rounder for James. I thought he would have cleared waivers by now? Also how can the Vikes get anything for him since they already cut him? Sorry no link, radio.

LINK (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/redskins_trade_for_erasmus_jam.html)

[bergiemoore]

Okay, we need to mod the title, again.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Thanks for the link BM. The link I added might require a login @ redskins.com. I don't have an account and it worked for me originally, but when I tested the link it requested login.

Anyhow. Conditional 7th. I don't mind the gamble for a position of desperate need. If he can get and stay healthy I don't see how he could be much worse than P. Daniels.

[colkurtz]

Well, I was wrong. The FO will make extremely low-ball offers, which is a good sign. A seventh rounder is nothing and barely above the UDFA level.

Let's see if he can cut the mustard.

[Counter Trey]

Say whatever you want about James' history of injuries etc, I'm just happy right now that the front office is actually trying something to improve our anemic pass rush...

[S.Taylor36]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/redskins_trade_for_erasmus_jam.html

[CNYSkinFan]

uhm..yeah?

[Sean36]

uhm..yeah?

I love the move, Erasmus has potential and he has a coach that made him a 1st rounder.

I love the move:niceday:

[shally]

conditional 7th ??

yeah, i can live with that.. he was once a first round talent.. if injuries are behind him, he is a steal... if not ? no big loss

[Skinz4lyfe]

Curse you FO for trading away another draft pick!.......































j/k! I think this is a smart move. At worst he is cut and we retain our draft pick. At best we makes the squad and gives us some depth at DE, something we sorely need.

[akhhorus]

Curious that our Dline coach didn't think enough of Calais Campbell(who was a dominating player when he coached him) to recommend drafting him, but he gets the FO to trade for James....

[silverspring]

Seems pretty win win to me. If he can't make the team then no loss, if he can then he is still almost free.

[shally]

Curious that our Dline coach didn't think enough of Calais Campbell(who was a dominating player when he coached him) to recommend drafting him, but he gets the FO to trade for James....

that is something of a statement.. might go to motivation of the individual player.. or might go to how much clout the Dline coach actually has..ie, the front office is willing to risk a conditional 7th on his opinion, but not a first rounder

in any event, i like that the FO is at least making some effort to bring in a young player with a bad injury history, but a potential upside. maybe like a poor man's jerome kearse ???

[RedskinsDave]

I don't have a problem with the trade but I can't get excited about a guy Minnesota was cutting.

[shally]

I don't have a problem with the trade but I can't get excited about a guy Minnesota was cutting.

true.. but our chances of landing him once he hit the waiver wire would have diminished.. plus, if he did hit the open market there would have likely been at least some kind of bidding for his services. front office was proactive at least

[silverspring]

Does anyone know the details on his knee? I know he blew his acl out 2 seasons ago and then reinjured this year. I would like to know how bad did he re-injured it? Like another acl blow out or...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

He has as good a chance (hopefully better) of making the team as next year's 7th rounder.

[GibbsFan]

Worth the risk of a 7th round look. Good move by the FO, and I hope he turns his career around.

[shally]

Does anyone know the details on his knee? I know he blew his acl out 2 seasons ago and then reinjured this year. I would like to know how bad did he re-injured it? Like another acl blow out or...


he has had at least 2 acl blowouts in the same knee.. not a good thing at all. but as long as the knee is not degenerating, it is repairable and WAS repaired

overall, i think he has had 3 major knee injuries including both pro and college careers

[hail2skins]

Thread has been renamed to be more appropriate. Other threads were popping up since the original title on this one was speculation.

[hail2skins]

Hey, it's a DE. So what he has a bad knee and has played a total of like 8 games in two years. He had a nice year in 2005 and if we can keep him on the field, he might just work out.

We're now taking resumes for knee therapists to go along with the hammy guy. shally, you up for the job. :D

[LATrueRedskin]

I don't have a problem with the trade but I can't get excited about a guy Minnesota was cutting.

I feel the same way. It's worth a shot to see if this guy will live up to his potential. We're not losing much; the potential 7th rounder would probably be in the same situation for us that James is. Plus, I don't know many Mr. Irrelevant's that make a splash in the NFL. :)

[JasonCampbell]

I love the trade. Of course, I have fond memories of the guy after he knocked out two PSU QBs in the same game :(. I hope he can stay healthy because he was a beast in the Big 10.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

A win/win move or the Skins. I agree with other posters that at least the FO acknowledged they have issues at DE.

[FanFromArizona]

what happens to our draft pick if we place him on IR? (or, better stated, can we place him on IR?)

[NCskinsfanatic]

what happens to our draft pick if we place him on IR? (or, better stated, can we place him on IR?)

It's conditional, so he has to make the 53 man roster or no dice...

[JasonCampbell]

The ESPN article makes Vinny sound not only competent, but smart

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3414445

Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerato called Vikings coach Brad Childress Tuesday and convinced him to trade James instead of releasing him. In exchange for James, the Vikings will receive a conditional seventh-round pick in 2009.

The trade was made possible because of the holiday weekend. With no waiver wire on Friday because of the Memorial Day holiday, the Vikings couldn't process James' release until 4 p.m. on Tuesday.

[Patrick]

Totally a Wait & See move.
He FAILED his phyical in Minnesota so it's not a done deal until the results are in tomorrow.

[silverspring]

he has had at least 2 acl blowouts in the same knee.. not a good thing at all. but as long as the knee is not degenerating, it is repairable and WAS repaired

overall, i think he has had 3 major knee injuries including both pro and college careers

Thanks for the info, hopefully he found a better doctor for the second repair.

It says he played 6 games last year and the last one was in december. Assuming he got the surgery shortly after that he has only had 5 months of healing so far. For a big guy like that I would think he would need at least another 4 months. It seems like it would be a big challenge for him to make the active roster.

Someone else asked, but what are our IR options?

[jaylen]

I don't think he'll even make the team. Not a real risk there. I never thought he was a pure pass rusher even in college. Seemed too upright.

But if anyone can't get somethingout of him his former coach can.

[hail2skins]

The ESPN article makes Vinny sound not only competent, but smart

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3414445Also in that article that you didn't include, was a mention of other teams lining up to claim him off waivers.

[hail2skins]

Totally a Wait & See move.
He FAILED his phyical in Minnesota so it's not a done deal until the results are in tomorrow.
I agree, it's a wait and see move. Also, it's a conditional pick. Depends on what the conditions are for the pick.

[CNYSkinFan]

I view this as I would view any ufda signing...great if it works out but lets not pencil him as starter quite yet

[BandWagon]

Personally, I think this is a move to stop the bleeding on our training staff's reputation for keeping guys healthy....if he stays healthy, maybe we DO know what we're doing...

Kidding of course...but in all seriousness it seems we do seem to have a recurring problem with hammy's and whatnot. I hope we can keep this guy upright long enough to find out something.

[Keino]

Curious that our Dline coach didn't think enough of Calais Campbell(who was a dominating player when he coached him) to recommend drafting him, but he gets the FO to trade for James....

I think it it very presumptuous to say that the D Line coach didn't push for Campbell....and that he had anything to do with getting James.

A blind Monkey could see that DE was a dire need for this team and James was a 1st round talent who hasn't stayed healthy.

[FanFromArizona]

It's conditional, so he has to make the 53 man roster or no dice...

Can we add him to our roster and then place him on IR (and thereby retain his rights) or do we have to void the trade if he can't make the 53 man roster?

[akhhorus]

I think it it very presumptuous to say that the D Line coach didn't push for Campbell....and that he had anything to do with getting James.

A blind Monkey could see that DE was a dire need for this team and James was a 1st round talent who hasn't stayed healthy.

Palermo coached James at Wisconsin, I think its safe to say that he has something to do with this move. And as for Campbell: if Palermo was sure he's a star in the making or a quality NFL player, I don't believe that we would have heard zip about Palermo fighting for the skins to draft Campbell.

[PyroGenic]

The only downside I see to this trade is false hope. This guy is teetering over the edge of really being crippled for the rest of his life so I'm not exactly sure how well he's going to be doing as a DE, you know, where you have be able to move and stuff. Also, as others have stated, if he failed a physical in Minnesota then the reason why he would pass one here is because either a) the vikings just wanted to get rid of him with little to no grief or b) the docs are ignoring or putting a positive spin on Mr.James' status; which is not good.

Yeah, the 'skins gave up a draft pick, but who cares about a 7th rounder with the recent track record. In recent years, it's been the round relegated to picking up fullbacks that never see the light of day until you hear about them on the waiver wire/IR or random quarterbacks that suck... a lot. This has absolutely zero risk involved in that department.

[Keino]

Palermo coached James at Wisconsin, I think its safe to say that he has something to do with this move. And as for Campbell: if Palermo was sure he's a star in the making or a quality NFL player, I don't believe that we would have heard zip about Palermo fighting for the skins to draft Campbell.

See I tend to disagree. The skins of late have been all about presenting a Unified front. They aren't going to let us in on any potential disunity. We cannot know what went on in the draft room or how much influence Palermo had. I think it possible that he didn't fight for Campbell but equally plausible that he wanted Campbell.

He may have had something to do with this move, but it could be as minimal as advising Cerrato on the type of player he was when he coached him, or it could have been in a "Hey lets go and get this guy". The extent of his influence is a big unknown.

Im happy we signed a DE though. Even if it is a Broke down player with 19 Knee surgeries in the last year. But we gave up a draft pick, I assume that will draw the Ire of a certain Bum poster.....LOL

[Lavar703]

Pretty good move, really nothing to lose here. You wont find a guy in the seventh round with his talent, but who knows how much is left after all these knee injuries. Welcome aboard Erasmus, maybe Smoot will introduce you to everyone

[akhhorus]

See I tend to disagree. The skins of late have been all about presenting a Unified front. They aren't going to let us in on any potential disunity. We cannot know what went on in the draft room or how much influence Palermo had. I think it possible that he didn't fight for Campbell but equally plausible that he wanted Campbell.

He may have had something to do with this move, but it could be as minimal as advising Cerrato on the type of player he was when he coached him, or it could have been in a "Hey lets go and get this guy". The extent of his influence is a big unknown.

Fair enough, but it is extremely curious that we didn't go after 1 of Palermo's proteges which we had a clear shot at and decided to go after another of his, which has been somewhat of a bust so far in the NFL.

Im happy we signed a DE though. Even if it is a Broke down player with 19 Knee surgeries in the last year. But we gave up a draft pick, I assume that will draw the Ire of a certain Bum poster.....LOL

LOL.

[FanFromArizona]

Im happy we signed a DE though. Even if it is a Broke down player with 19 Knee surgeries in the last year. But we gave up a draft pick, I assume that will draw the Ire of a certain Bum poster.....LOL

Treat yourself to a Hamburger for a post like this.....The only thing I'd have to argue with is that this is a CONDITIONAL draft pick, so we have not quite given up a draft pick YET </sarcasm now>

[Keino]

Fair enough, but it is extremely curious that we didn't go after 1 of Palermo's proteges which we had a clear shot at and decided to go after another of his, which has been somewhat of a bust so far in the NFL.


The one thing I can say is that we should have been very well informed about both players assuming Vinny was smart enough to use Palermo as a resource. I have my doubts as to whether Vinny even knows that he coached either player.....

[akhhorus]

The one thing I can say is that we should have been very well informed about both players assuming Vinny was smart enough to use Palermo as a resource. I have my doubts as to whether Vinny even knows that he coached either player.....

Blache would know, and he is very vocal about what he's wanted and seems to have some say with Vincenzo.

[Red Bear]

Fair enough, but it is extremely curious that we didn't go after 1 of Palermo's proteges which we had a clear shot at and decided to go after another of his, which has been somewhat of a bust so far in the NFL.


cerrato has said he doesnt like drafting dlineman too much, so not drafting calais campbell is what could be expected of him, seems of the norm to me. trading away a draft pick for a player who may not make an impact seems the norm to me as well. atleast its conditional that the vikes get nothing if james fails to make the team.

as far as the people wondering about IR if his knee isnt healed. im not sure, but that retains our rights to james so we would probably have to give up the draft pick in that case. also james is in the last year of his rookie deal with a salary of 1 million.

[akhhorus]

cerrato has said he doesnt like drafting dlineman too much, so not drafting calais campbell is what could be expected of him, seems of the norm to me. trading away a draft pick for a player who may not make an impact seems the norm to me as well. atleast its conditional that the vikes get nothing if james fails to make the team.

as far as the people wondering about IR if his knee isnt healed. im not sure, but that retains our rights to james so we would probably have to give up the draft pick in that case. also james is in the last year of his rookie deal with a salary of 1 million.

Trust me, no one understands that like I do, but its just curious that we trade for a DE with connections to our Dline coach who's a walking medical experiment, but pass on a younger rookie with similar connections.

[PyroGenic]

Blache would know, and he is very vocal about what he's wanted and seems to have some say with Vincenzo.

He does? The draft doesn't really seem to reflect that.

[CNYSkinFan]

Trust me, no one understands that like I do, but its just curious that we trade for a DE with connections to our Dline coach who's a walking medical experiment, but pass on a younger rookie with similar connections.
you say curious...i say incompetent

[akhhorus]

you say curious...i say incompetent

As much as I agree 1000% we've needed a DE(and still badly do), Calais Campbell wasn't the answer. Neither was Groves. Get over it.

He does? The draft doesn't really seem to reflect that.

Drafting 3 safeties? I'd say so.

[colkurtz]

Trust me, no one understands that like I do, but its just curious that we trade for a DE with connections to our Dline coach who's a walking medical experiment, but pass on a younger rookie with similar connections.

Maybe the DL coach was much more impressed with the cast-off versus the draft pick;

or perhaps a conditional seventh round pick is all the chips they'll allow him to play with at this point.

James is a win-win with minimal downside. I hope he can pas the physical or this thread is going to be short-lived.

[CNYSkinFan]

As much as I agree 1000% we've needed a DE(and still badly do), Calais Campbell wasn't the answer. Neither was Groves. Get over it.



Drafting 3 safeties? I'd say so.
i will get over it when we have a dominant defesnive line lol...not one day before

[PyroGenic]

Drafting 3 safeties? I'd say so.

You know they're not gonna do squat :)

[CNYSkinFan]

Trust me, no one understands that like I do, but its just curious that we trade for a DE with connections to our Dline coach who's a walking medical experiment, but pass on a younger rookie with similar connections.
to be fair, ti was a conditional 7th...we basically traded a sack of footballs for him, if he does not kmake the team we dont even get a cap hit...this was a no brainer...and perfect for Vinny

[Keino]

i will get over it when we have a dominant defesnive line lol...not one day before

So you plan on being salty for a very long time eh?

[CNYSkinFan]

So you plan on being salty for a very long time eh?
it has worked for me so far

[redskin_rich]

I re-edited the title to get rid of the '?' and to give the post # for the link.

I had no idea we made this move. Low risk, low chance of success but it's worth a shot. Gawd knows we need all the help we can get with our pass rush.

[colkurtz]

it has worked for me so far

Nothing to back it up, but I just wonder if Blache will stay longer than this season or two. Then Zorn will bring in his own guy - who may have a different idea on the importance of a DL.....

[CNYSkinFan]

Nothing to back it up, but I just wonder if Blache will stay longer than this season or two. Then Zorn will bring in his own guy - who may have a different idea on the importance of a DL.....
i am willing to give Blatche a chance...I read some stuff on scout.com that said Blatche and Zorn had a good working relationship at the mini camps and seemed to say it was true respect for each other...but who knows if even Zorn will be here in a year or two. Nothing is safe with this FO

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

hey, its a DE.....why not? :whoknows: Lol.

[santanadasavior]

Seems like a great move to me. He got 4 sacks in 8 or 9 starts his rookie year and tore his ACL the next two years. If he can stay healthy I would expect some contribution from him in the later parts of the season. He was taken 18th overall in 2005 and I remember him being on the HR draft board. Low risk, high reward. I don't see anything wrong with this move.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Very nice move IMO. I must confess I wanted him instead of Campbell in the 05 Draft. Worst case scenario, nothing happens and we lose nothing.

[shally]

Fair enough, but it is extremely curious that we didn't go after 1 of Palermo's proteges which we had a clear shot at and decided to go after another of his, which has been somewhat of a bust so far in the NFL.



LOL.
the only thing i can think of is that one wasnt worth a first round pick, while the other was worth a conditional 7th.. maybe if campbell had fallen into the third round we would have gone after him ?? who knows ???

The one thing I can say is that we should have been very well informed about both players assuming Vinny was smart enough to use Palermo as a resource. I have my doubts as to whether Vinny even knows that he coached either player.....

again, i would feel that palermo has a definite opinion on both.. how much he was listened to at the draft we just dont know, but i have to think he had a strong input into this decision

[shally]

Nothing to back it up, but I just wonder if Blache will stay longer than this season or two. Then Zorn will bring in his own guy - who may have a different idea on the importance of a DL.....

at the start of this regime, i would have thought that blache was just playing out the string for his players.. but from what has seeped out it seems that blache has a lot of good feelings towards zorn and maybe he isnt a short timer after all ???

a lot will depend upon the performance of the defense, but given the overall performance of the defense under blache/williams in years past i dont expect the wheels to fall off..

[joethefan]

Hey, it's a DE. So what he has a bad knee and has played a total of like 8 games in two years. He had a nice year in 2005 and if we can keep him on the field, he might just work out.

We're now taking resumes for knee therapists to go along with the hammy guy. shally, you up for the job. :D


NO I'll take the hammy Job.....hmmm lets see...maybe we can try some evaporated goats milk....LOL

[chrisbcbu]

IF this works out this could be huge. He has a ton of potential but its just a matter of him staying healthy. And i am not suprised at all that many other teams were inquiring about him to try and get him off of waivers.

If this move works out we spend a 7th rounder. Thats a candy bar in my book. And if it doesnt work out we wasted nothing. Whats bad about this move?

[AliBabba]

I love this move .

[Hrabanmaur]

Very wise move on the part of the Front Office to be aggressive enough to jump in before waivers. If he doesn't make the 53 man roster, we lose nothing. IF he does, we finally have an option besides Philip Daniels. As for James, perhaps he can return to form as long as he doesn't play scared (of re-injuring the knee again).

I have to say the Front Office is looking surprisingly competent this off-season, and I couldn't be more pleased.

[Cutter]

He's the 3rd player that will require a year to get back into form. It'll be interesting to see if they give him a new deal right away. Which seems like you would... why trade for a player you're going to put on the PUP list if you have no plans on keeping him when he can play next year? I understand he has to make the roster - so it's not like we're risking anything. I just don't see this as an exciting move since he probably won't be able to make the roster this season... unless they give him a new deal.

[Keino]

Huh? They claimed he is 90% recovered. You don't put that type of player on the PUP list.

[Cutter]

They're saying Rogers is doing well too - but you don't see either on the field. It takes a clean year to recover. To "really" recover we're talking a year and a half at the earliest. Didn't he have the injury in December? We'd be lucky to have him back at full speed next training camp. A miracle would be him coming off the PUP list and contributing late this season. But I think that's too much to ask. The Vikings were only on the hook for $1 million. You don't think he'd have passed their physical and been on the team even if he sucked and was only depth if he physically were ready to contribute this year? We're not really risking anything, but we're probably not really getting anything either.

[guinness4health]

Trust me, no one understands that like I do, but its just curious that we trade for a DE with connections to our Dline coach who's a walking medical experiment, but pass on a younger rookie with similar connections.

Immediately after the draft Vinny was doing an interview and they asked about Calais Campbell and they said that they had rated as having late second round grade and they went with players were on their board that had the higher rating....

obviously take that for want it is, but if it is true at least he stuck to his board and didn't reach for someone they thought wasn't as talented because of past connections.

[dj_stouty]

Im ok with this move. Better to give up close-to-nothing to get him now, than to potentially lose him after 6/1.

My only concern is that his knee problems turn into hammy problems; knowing our conditioning staff as we all do...:rolleyes:

[guinness4health]

They're saying Rogers is doing well too - but you don't see either on the field. It takes a clean year to recover.

You really can't compare the two player, they pay entirely different positions...

a linemen is going to clearly be effected by this type of injury but the fact is he can contribute....(unless you are strickly a speed rusher, which james is not)

a cornerback depends on his speed to a much greater extent. There is no reason to think that James would need to start the year on PUP.

[Brokenstriker]

memory is a little foggy and google isn't helping much ... but I think Dave Butz was a first round draft pick of the Cardinals who didn't become an instant star with them, then was injured and available on the trading block ...

not saying that James would be anywhere near as great as Butz ... but the the Skins have had luck in the past with investing in injured former first round DEs early in their careers.

[JsMaViSd]

i like the pickup. cant do nothing but help us

[Skins7ny]

I advocated signing James thinking he would cost us nothing in terms of draft picks if his knee checks out and if Palermo went to bat for him. Obviously, Palermo did. There is no way they make this move without Palermo's endorsement. He is considered a high-character guy who works hard and loves the game. The question now is (1) can he regain his pre-injuries speed and burst (2) can he resume his natural development as a pro DE, and pick up where he left off after his successful and promising rookie year and (3) can he stay healthy for us?
Curious that our Dline coach didn't think enough of Calais Campbell(who was a dominating player when he coached him) to recommend drafting him, but he gets the FO to trade for James....
Cerrato said after the draft that there were 3 times that they were about to draft a DE, and each time the guy they had planned to take got snatched up right before they selected. I think that they were going to take Campbell with their 3rd 2nd-rounder, but the Cardinals grabbed him. The other two times may have been Merling (with the Thomas pick) and Laws (with the Davis pick). Although I agree with you that if Palermo loved Campbell, he would have been above Merling and Laws on their board. Doesn't necessarily mean that they did not want Campbell or that Palermo did not want to bring him in. Could mean that they miscalculated the board, that they thought Philly or Arizona would take Fred Davis between 48 and 51, or that Zorn went to bat for Davis at 48 and guess what, he won out over Palermo. We will never know probably, but I wouldn't be so certain about Palermo being down on Campbell.
true.. but our chances of landing him once he hit the waiver wire would have diminished.. plus, if he did hit the open market there would have likely been at least some kind of bidding for his services. front office was proactive at least
Apparently, we would not have gotten James, because there were lots of teams with worse records who were going to put in a claim for him. In which case, this was a very smart move on Vinny's part. I am surprised that the Vikings would deal him to us, given that we figure to be fighting with them for a playoff spot this year.
I feel the same way. It's worth a shot to see if this guy will live up to his potential. We're not losing much; the potential 7th rounder would probably be in the same situation for us that James is. Plus, I don't know many Mr. Irrelevant's that make a splash in the NFL. :)
We had one here. Remember C/G Matt Elliot (1992)?
what happens to our draft pick if we place him on IR? (or, better stated, can we place him on IR?)
I am pretty sure that if we place him on IR, we have to give the Vikings the pick.
The only downside I see to this trade is false hope. This guy is teetering over the edge of really being crippled for the rest of his life so I'm not exactly sure how well he's going to be doing as a DE, you know, where you have be able to move and stuff. Also, as others have stated, if he failed a physical in Minnesota then the reason why he would pass one here is because either a) the vikings just wanted to get rid of him with little to no grief or b) the docs are ignoring or putting a positive spin on Mr.James' status; which is not good.
Yeah, the 'skins gave up a draft pick, but who cares about a 7th rounder with the recent track record. In recent years, it's been the round relegated to picking up fullbacks that never see the light of day until you hear about them on the waiver wire/IR or random quarterbacks that suck... a lot. This has absolutely zero risk involved in that department.
*As far as passing the physical is concerned, it may also be a matter of giving James more time. It is possible that he would have passed the Vikings' physical in August after more rehab and conditioning in the knee, but the Vikes did not want to wait.
*There were several guys drafted in the 7th round this year whom I really liked (OT Nate Garner, SS Josh Barrett, OG Chester Adams, QB Alex Brink, FB Peyton Hillis, C/T Jamey Richard, OT Geoff Schwartz, WR Marcus Monk, DT Lionel Dotson and LB David Vobora-this year's Mr. Irrelevant). At least a few of them will go on to have productive careers in the NFL. The 7th round is a valuable round-we just haven't done a good job of drafting in the 7th.
Fair enough, but it is extremely curious that we didn't go after 1 of Palermo's proteges which we had a clear shot at and decided to go after another of his, which has been somewhat of a bust so far in the NFL. LOL.
Maybe this is the FOs way of saying sorry to Palermo (and Blatche) for miscalculating the draft board and missing out on the other protege.
cerrato has said he doesnt like drafting dlineman too much, so not drafting calais campbell is what could be expected of him, seems of the norm to me. trading away a draft pick for a player who may not make an impact seems the norm to me as well. atleast its conditional that the vikes get nothing if james fails to make the team.
as far as the people wondering about IR if his knee isnt healed. im not sure, but that retains our rights to james so we would probably have to give up the draft pick in that case. also james is in the last year of his rookie deal with a salary of 1 million.
What? One year left on his deal? We can't have that! Tear it up and give this player the Danny Special (6 years, $30M including a $10M signing bonus)! :rolleyes:
As much as I agree 1000% we've needed a DE(and still badly do), Calais Campbell wasn't the answer. Neither was Groves. Get over it. Drafting 3 safeties? I'd say so.
We drafted 2 safeties. Justin Tryon is a corner.
He's the 3rd player that will require a year to get back into form. It'll be interesting to see if they give him a new deal right away. Which seems like you would... why trade for a player you're going to put on the PUP list if you have no plans on keeping him when he can play next year? I understand he has to make the roster - so it's not like we're risking anything. I just don't see this as an exciting move since he probably won't be able to make the roster this season... unless they give him a new deal.
Good point. However, if we PUP him and then lose him to free agency the following year, there is a good chance that we will recoup that 7th rounder as a compensatory choice. Could be even more depending on what kind of deal he signs and how he performs for his new team in '09

[chrisbcbu]

Here are a couple of snippets from the surgery back in dec.
http://min.scout.com/2/713440.html

After playing in five previous games, James returned to the starting lineup when the Vikings met the Lions Dec. 2. Early in his first start, James was ready to put the pain and rehabilitation behind. It was time to resume his career … or so he thought. Early in the game, he felt the same ACL pop and, while it wasn’t as severe as the initial injury, his season was ended again in an instant.

While the early prognosis has James expected to be 100 percent by the start of training camp, he’s putting more pressure on himself to live up to the contract the Vikings signed him to.

[akhhorus]

Cerrato said after the draft that there were 3 times that they were about to draft a DE, and each time the guy they had planned to take got snatched up right before they selected. I think that they were going to take Campbell with their 3rd 2nd-rounder, but the Cardinals grabbed him. The other two times may have been Merling (with the Thomas pick) and Laws (with the Davis pick).

Well, first Laws is a DT, not a DE. I don't buy that they dealt down with an intention to draft a DE, and that spin from Vinny sounds exactly like that. If memory serves, Devin Thomas was on his phone with the skins at 21, so I think Thomas was the plan all along there.

Although I agree with you that if Palermo loved Campbell, he would have been above Merling and Laws on their board. Doesn't necessarily mean that they did not want Campbell or that Palermo did not want to bring him in. Could mean that they miscalculated the board, that they thought Philly or Arizona would take Fred Davis between 48 and 51, or that Zorn went to bat for Davis at 48 and guess what, he won out over Palermo. We will never know probably, but I wouldn't be so certain about Palermo being down on Campbell.

The skins showed little to no interest in Campbell during the whole draft process and spent extra time on other DEs taken in the same general area of the draft. Saying that Palermo wasn't high on Campbell isn't much supposition.

We drafted 2 safeties. Justin Tryon is a corner.

You're right, I was counting the multiple Safeties we signed as UDFAs. But still: 3 Dbs sounds like Blache.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Any other draft considerations aside, I don't see what harm can come from this kind of move. 7th round picks are worth basically nothing, so we really have everything to gain and nothing to lose from this.

[Skins7ny]

Well, first Laws is a DT, not a DE. I don't buy that they dealt down with an intention to draft a DE, and that spin from Vinny sounds exactly like that. If memory serves, Devin Thomas was on his phone with the skins at 21, so I think Thomas was the plan all along there.
I believe that Laws was seen by some teams as a DE/DT hybrid. I agree with you about Thomas. I think we were targeting Thomas with pick 37, and would have taken Thomas even if Merling were still on the board.
The skins showed little to no interest in Campbell during the whole draft process and spent extra time on other DEs taken in the same general area of the draft. Saying that Palermo wasn't high on Campbell isn't much supposition.
That means nothing. Davis said afterwards that we had shown little interest in him and was surprised when we called on draft day. This is especially true when a team has inside info on a player (such as having his college position coach on staff).
You're right, I was counting the multiple Safeties we signed as UDFAs. But still: 3 Dbs sounds like Blache.
Blache made no secret of wanting to upgrade and get younger on the DL, but did not get his wish. I don't think that means that he doesn't have pull with Clean Slate. There are a lot of other factors that come into play on Draft Day, and Blache has been around long enough to know it and not to get upset about it. Yes, the bottom line is that the FO made a luxury pick (arguably 2 of them) in the second round rather than get Blache help for his defense, but that may be a function of them (a) sticking to their value board (as they say), (b) giving the new head coach what he wants on his preferred side of the ball and/or (c) helping the side of the ball that needs more help.

[akhhorus]

I believe that Laws was seen by some teams as a DE/DT hybrid. I agree with you about Thomas. I think we were targeting Thomas with pick 37, and would have taken Thomas even if Merling were still on the board.

No way was Laws seen as a DE/DT hybrid. He's 6' 300 without good speed. He's not even a 3-4 DE.

That means nothing. Davis said afterwards that we had shown little interest in him and was surprised when we called on draft day. This is especially true when a team has inside info on a player (such as having his college position coach on staff).

Maybe if we were bringing in other TEs assessed to be drafted around the same area that Davis was the situations would be congruent.

Blache made no secret of wanting to upgrade and get younger on the DL, but did not get his wish.

Umm..where and when? All I heard from him was that he wanted a pass rushing DT, but didn't think DE was that much of a priority.

I don't think that means that he doesn't have pull with Clean Slate. There are a lot of other factors that come into play on Draft Day, and Blache has been around long enough to know it and not to get upset about it. Yes, the bottom line is that the FO made a luxury pick (arguably 2 of them) in the second round rather than get Blache help for his defense, but that may be a function of them (a) sticking to their value board (as they say), (b) giving the new head coach what he wants on his preferred side of the ball and/or (c) helping the side of the ball that needs more help.

or (d) Fent and I's theory: that Zorn/Vinny want to push Blache out in a year, but didn't want to upset the locker room so much after dumping Williams. So, they do little for the defense in free agency/draft and set Blache up for failure.

[VegasSkinsFan]

Through the B&G glasses I see 7 YOUNG players who have potential ( or at least showed it in college ) DT : monty,golsten,askew ( longshot ) DE : wilson,buzbee,jackson,james . While they may not be the marquee names, i do see a glimmer of hope/change in the future. Ever the optimist..GO SKINS !!!!!

[Keino]

They're saying Rogers is doing well too - but you don't see either on the field. It takes a clean year to recover. To "really" recover we're talking a year and a half at the earliest. Didn't he have the injury in December? We'd be lucky to have him back at full speed next training camp. A miracle would be him coming off the PUP list and contributing late this season. But I think that's too much to ask. The Vikings were only on the hook for $1 million. You don't think he'd have passed their physical and been on the team even if he sucked and was only depth if he physically were ready to contribute this year? We're not really risking anything, but we're probably not really getting anything either.


To really recover it does take 2 years, but that is mostly a confidence thing. To be healed 100% it doesn't take a year and half and generally a position like DE isn't like a RB suffering the ACL tear.

If he's 90% now chances are he will be available for Training camp in 3 months, even if it is limited work. By placing him on the PUP list we are saying that he is on the team (and therefore on the hook for the 7th rounder) and he is not available to us until week 8. Why would we do that if if he is 100% healed by training camp?

This is a no risk/High reward potential move. He is still under his rookie contract and the Vikes have paid his signing bonus (which doesn't effect our cap). You may not be aware of this, but the Vikes just traded for and re-signed a high priced player at the same position making James expendable. They were going to waive him and he wouldn't have cleared waivers for us to get him.

[redwolf1218]

i thought he was released already.

[Hrabanmaur]

To really recover it does take 2 years, but that is mostly a confidence thing. To be healed 100% it doesn't take a year and half and generally a position like DE isn't like a RB suffering the ACL tear.

If he's 90% now chances are he will be available for Training camp in 3 months, even if it is limited work. By placing him on the PUP list we are saying that he is on the team (and therefore on the hook for the 7th rounder) and he is not available to us until week 8. Why would we do that if if he is 100% healed by training camp?

This is a no risk/High reward potential move. He is still under his rookie contract and the Vikes have paid his signing bonus (which doesn't effect our cap). You may not be aware of this, but the Vikes just traded for and re-signed a high priced player at the same position making James expendable. They were going to waive him and he wouldn't have cleared waivers for us to get him.

I'm with you on this one. As long as he doesn't play tentatively, he can return to form. He's proven it once already -- having reclaimed the starting DE position after his first ACL injury. There's no reason to put him on the PUP. If they are worried about over-taxing the knee (and this is assuming he plays well), they can always keep him on a rotation with Daniels and yank him on 3rd and long for Wilson/Buzbee.

If he plays scared and the goods are too damaged, just cut him at the final roster selection. The coaches should have enough data to make the decision when the time comes.

[Cutter]

He might be available, but I don't see him as being ready when the games count. The man is at least 266 pounds (probably more now) and that puts a lot of pressure on that joint. He rushed back last time and look what happened. I hope they did a better job this time and I hope is rehab is great. But thinking he'll come back in October or November (off the PUP list) for an ACL injury that happened in December is pretty optomisitic. We might get an idea by him doing some drill or the like in camps but no real contact for that guy for awhile.

I could see the Skins holding him this year, on the PUP or even IR, paying the 7th, and giving him a new deal on the relative cheap considering him for future years of production if he shows them anything in these camps. It's pretty far fetched to think he's going to start over Daniels in '08/'09. If he plays this year it's likely as a pass rush specialist.

[fent]

He might be available, but I don't see him as being ready when the games count. The man is at least 266 pounds (probably more now) and that puts a lot of pressure on that joint. He rushed back last time and look what happened. I hope they did a better job this time and I hope is rehab is great. But thinking he'll come back in October or November (off the PUP list) for an ACL injury that happened in December is pretty optomisitic. We might get an idea by him doing some drill or the like in camps but no real contact for that guy for awhile.

I could see the Skins holding him this year, on the PUP or even IR, paying the 7th, and giving him a new deal on the relative cheap considering him for future years of production if he shows them anything in these camps. It's pretty far fetched to think he's going to start over Daniels in '08/'09. If he plays this year it's likely as a pass rush specialist.

did you completely ignore this post? especially the line that says "it wasn't as severe as the initial injury"? this wasn't another tear, this was a setback in the healing process that from the very time the injury occurred he was expected to be healed by the time camp opened.

Here are a couple of snippets from the surgery back in dec.
http://min.scout.com/2/713440.html
After playing in five previous games, James returned to the starting lineup when the Vikings met the Lions Dec. 2. Early in his first start, James was ready to put the pain and rehabilitation behind. It was time to resume his career … or so he thought. Early in the game, he felt the same ACL pop and, while it wasn’t as severe as the initial injury, his season was ended again in an instant.

While the early prognosis has James expected to be 100 percent by the start of training camp, he’s putting more pressure on himself to live up to the contract the Vikings signed him to.

[chrisbcbu]

i thought he was released already.

He was technically placed on waivers. But since this was a holiday weekend the league office didnt process the release until the end of Tuesday. We called tuesday day and got the Vikes to pull him off waiver and we traded for him.

Hope that helps.

[Keino]

did you completely ignore this post? especially the line that says "it wasn't as severe as the initial injury"? this wasn't another tear, this was a setback in the healing process that from the very time the injury occurred he was expected to be healed by the time camp opened.

Yes, he did. He ignores posts habitually. He is a habitual post ignorer (Charlie Murphy)

[shally]

To really recover it does take 2 years, but that is mostly a confidence thing. To be healed 100% it doesn't take a year and half and generally a position like DE isn't like a RB suffering the ACL tear.

If he's 90% now chances are he will be available for Training camp in 3 months, even if it is limited work. By placing him on the PUP list we are saying that he is on the team (and therefore on the hook for the 7th rounder) and he is not available to us until week 8. Why would we do that if if he is 100% healed by training camp?

This is a no risk/High reward potential move. He is still under his rookie contract and the Vikes have paid his signing bonus (which doesn't effect our cap). You may not be aware of this, but the Vikes just traded for and re-signed a high priced player at the same position making James expendable. They were going to waive him and he wouldn't have cleared waivers for us to get him.

agree 100 %

[Keino]

agree 100 %

And Cutter, before you argue, Shally is a Orthopedic Doctor. He does it for a living.

[linzman|skinsfan]

Seems like a great move to me. He got 4 sacks in 8 or 9 starts his rookie year and tore his ACL the next two years. If he can stay healthy I would expect some contribution from him in the later parts of the season. He was taken 18th overall in 2005 and I remember him being on the HR draft board. Low risk, high reward. I don't see anything wrong with this move.

This is a good point... we could have drafted him in 2005 and been in the situation Minnesota was in with him... instead we could give a 7th now and might get that 1st round value for him... I like the move on principle alone.

[Shrympscampi]

Zero risk with great upside!! I like it.


So we are looking at Carter and Daniels as starters and maybe 3 backups and 1 on practise squad between 6 six DEs:
Wilson
Buzbee
Huntley
Jackson
James
Evans

[Cutter]

"as severe " isn't the same as "not severe". This required surgery. We're talking about a large man putting immense amounts of pressure on a knee that has now been surgically repaired 3 times in around 5 years... twice in the last two years. Can anyone name any player that has returned in 9 months from ACL surgery to start and become an impact player? And that's just for the regular season... and that's if he got surgery in December. If he waited a month for the swelling to subside that extended his recovery. You'll also need him in OTA's and training camp to acclimate him to the system and to have him win the starting job. You think he'll be ready for OTA's this week? Or training camp ~6 months after surgery? Shally, or anyone, what are the odds a guy 6 months removed from ACL surgery beats out a coach favorite at the position to start at LDE in camp? If he shows you anything he's probably better off hitting the pup list. When he comes off, he's probably a situational pass rusher. If he shows you something through all this, you give him a contract and try him at the starting spot. If you're promoting anything more it's just wishful thinking.

[JsMaViSd]

i dunno, i myself would just wish they would get rid of Daniels already.

i feel comfortable with Evans, Buzbee, Wilson and now James at least in the mix.

I like them on rotation. But i dont like any of them on an every down basis, ESPECIALLY Daniels

[akhhorus]

"as severe " isn't the same as "not severe". This required surgery. We're talking about a large man putting immense amounts of pressure on a knee that has now been surgically repaired 3 times in around 5 years... twice in the last two years. Can anyone name any player that has returned in 9 months from ACL surgery to start and become an impact player?

Philip Rivers played well in the playoffs with a torn ACL. He's expected to be ready for TC.

Also, its a loaded question, unless someone tears their ACL in the mid to late playoffs, its almost impossible to return to the field in precisely 9 months.

And that's just for the regular season... and that's if he got surgery in December. If he waited a month for the swelling to subside that extended his recovery. You'll also need him in OTA's and training camp to acclimate him to the system and to have him win the starting job. You think he'll be ready for OTA's this week? Or training camp ~6 months after surgery? Shally, or anyone, what are the odds a guy 6 months removed from ACL surgery beats out a coach favorite at the position to start at LDE in camp? If he shows you anything he's probably better off hitting the pup list. When he comes off, he's probably a situational pass rusher. If he shows you something through all this, you give him a contract and try him at the starting spot. If you're promoting anything more it's just wishful thinking.

I don't think you understood anyone's comments. If he shows anything, then he's healthy enough not to be on the PUP list. If he's not healthy, but they want to give him a shot, they'll pup list him(if they think he'll be healthy enough by the middle of the season to contribute) or IR him(if he won't).

[Hrabanmaur]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/santana_mosss_bday_basheswaiti.html?nav=rss_blog

Also, I screwed something up yesterday and, like a moron, forgot what year it was (seriously) when looking at Erasmus James's contract. Indeed he does have a $1 million salary left on his contract ... but that's in 2009. In 2008 he will earn $695,000 if he makes the Redskins. So he has two seasons left on his deal.

Interesting correction -- We now have James for 2 years if he makes the 53 man roster.

[Cutter]

That IS very interesting. I'm sure he passes the physical now. I still wonder if they PUP or IR him. He's only ~$700k this year and $1M next year. He'll also fall into that same category as JC for the uncapped year - they'll hold his rights in year 3 if we go uncapped (I don't think we will... just saying)

[linzman|skinsfan]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/santana_mosss_bday_basheswaiti.html?nav=rss_blog



Interesting correction -- We now have James for 2 years if he makes the 53 man roster.

I know this is off subject but the link made me wonder where Mike Rumph went too (for some reason). Looks like he is on Team Florida in the yet to materialize AAFL...

[Brit'Skin]

Itsa good deal for us but its not exactly something i'm going to get excited about until I see him on the field (if we ever do)

[skinfan43]

Would be great if he resurrected here.
Erasmus "Jesus" James.
Hallelujah...a DE we have heard of.

[Hr fan]

At the start of this thread, before the trade, I said that James wasn't a warrior in the mold we seem to be looking for. Reasons for included not staying healthy (how good is Kobe if he is always out?). An adjunct is that we so typically overpay (remember that B Lloyd was rumored to be cut). With this fo I didn't see that it was worth the shot IF IT COST EITHER PICKS OR CAP ROOM.

Is James worth more than the camp fodder cut because he was signed? Yes, even if he is nothing but potential he had some while what we cut did not. Is $695K too much? We are paying our punter more I believe. Is a 7th too much to take a look? No, but even better we have to like what we see before any choice is involved.

So I like the move IF Snyderatto realizes it is no fix, just a flyer with a high chance of failure. Don't stop looking! Having said all that, the move is intreguing because James is a RDE, not a LDE. He doesn't threaten Daniels, he backs up Carter. And when you stop to think about it, is Evans or (shudder) Daniels a legitimate b/u for Carter? Buzbee and Wilson are too light for that duty. If used as an in-game breather for Carter and insurance against injury this is a good move if it works out for both the team and James. He won't be asked to justify a 1st round pick, and the lower wear-and-tear be just what this player needs to succeed.

[Keino]

Itsa good deal for us but its not exactly something i'm going to get excited about until I see him on the field (if we ever do)

I disagree. The more I think about it, the more I think it is something to get excited about. We have potentially stolen for the price of a 7th rounder a 1st round talent at DE still on his rookie contract, addressing a position of dire need. Who is out to prove that his injuries were flukes and that he is worth his contract and is being reunited with the coach who got him drafted in the 1st round in the 1st place.

I think it is very exciting and barring injury or set-back I think we do see him on the field this year.

[Skins7ny]

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/05/santana_mosss_bday_basheswaiti.html?nav=rss_blog
Interesting correction -- We now have James for 2 years if he makes the 53 man roster.
Much better-we have him for 2 years on the cheap.
This has the potential to be a great move.
I hate giving up any draft pick, but this was a conditional choice in the last round at a position of immense need that we have neglected far too long.
Well worth the risk, which BTW is zero so long as we can make up our mind about him before the 53-man rosters are set, which we should be able to do so long as he can participate in camp.

[Red Bear]

also james is in the last year of his rookie deal with a salary of 1 million.

CORRECTION: james has two years left on his deal, the source i got my info from(JLC) was wrong and corrected it in his blog earlier today. 2008 he has a salary of 600,000 something and 2009 he has a salary of 1mill...

[Skins7ny]

I have a feeling that he passed his physical, because his name has just been added to the roster on the Skins' web site. He will wear number 78.

[Hr fan]

I have a feeling that he passed his physical, because his name has just been added to the roster on the Skins' web site. He will wear number 78.

He would have passed the physical unless he has no chance. As so well pointed out in this thread, there is no cost involved until the 53 man roster is to be set.

[skinsfan36]

i like this move we may lose a 7th but we will probably get one as a comp anyway(lost caldwell,prioleau,and macklin...gained mathis for a while still counts) we will sign others but probbky not until june which i think is when they are not counted in the ufa signing period. anyways this was a good move by the fo if he pans out. hey he has potential and has 5 career sacks which is more than demetric evans. im glad we saw that we needed a DE,now im interested if we think we are good at cb,ss,olb.i think we sign acquire 1 or 2 out of the 3 in the preseason.

[Cutter]

To end any debate. He's a LDE:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3145868

After several setbacks, it appeared he was back on track when he finally reclaimed his starting spot at left defensive end against the Lions.

[Skins7ny]

At the start of this thread, before the trade, I said that James wasn't a warrior in the mold we seem to be looking for. Reasons for included not staying healthy (how good is Kobe if he is always out?). An adjunct is that we so typically overpay (remember that B Lloyd was rumored to be cut). With this fo I didn't see that it was worth the shot IF IT COST EITHER PICKS OR CAP ROOM.

Is James worth more than the camp fodder cut because he was signed? Yes, even if he is nothing but potential he had some while what we cut did not. Is $695K too much? We are paying our punter more I believe. Is a 7th too much to take a look? No, but even better we have to like what we see before any choice is involved.

So I like the move IF Snyderatto realizes it is no fix, just a flyer with a high chance of failure. Don't stop looking! Having said all that, the move is intreguing because James is a RDE, not a LDE. He doesn't threaten Daniels, he backs up Carter. And when you stop to think about it, is Evans or (shudder) Daniels a legitimate b/u for Carter? Buzbee and Wilson are too light for that duty. If used as an in-game breather for Carter and insurance against injury this is a good move if it works out for both the team and James. He won't be asked to justify a 1st round pick, and the lower wear-and-tear be just what this player needs to succeed.

I have been as critical of the FO as anyone since I began posting, and any praise of the FO now has to be tempered by the fact that we TRIED to give away our draft to the Bengals for Chad Johnson. However, I think we have to recognize that the FO has largely changed how it has done business this off-season. Yes, we were rebuffed on Johnson, but there were plenty of other places where we could have spent our draft choice currency this off-season. It seems like every overweight big-name DT in the league got traded this off-season, and it is unimaginable that a year or two ago we would not have been a participant. Lance Briggs was out there for the signing in free agency; had this been 2007, we would have been all over him. We signed one unrestricted free agent, a 4th-tier guy (and already have cut him). We wanted WR DJ Hackett and made him an offer that would have been advantageous to us if he had taken it. We refused to get into a bidding war with the Panthers for someone whose performance in the league so far does not merit a bidding war. We kept all of our draft choices and even picked up an extra one in trade.

The evidence is clear that the FO has changed. Let us hope that it is long-term and for the right reasons (change in organizational philisophy valuing draft choices, committment to depth and home-grown talent over flashy, fantasy-football moves) rather than a one-year only change for the wrong reasons (salary cap).

[Cutter]

On your post earlier Akh, are you really comparing Rivers, a 228lb plodding QB with a partial tear, to James, a 266+ rush DE with a 3 surgeries on the same knee in recent history?

Further, we've yet to see how Rivers plays after his more minor surgery from January 23rd. If you were going to go down that road, what about Carson Palmer? Was he elite the year after his surgery? Culpepper? What about a more realistic comparison like Shawn Barber?

[Brit'Skin]

I disagree. The more I think about it, the more I think it is something to get excited about. We have potentially stolen for the price of a 7th rounder a 1st round talent at DE still on his rookie contract, addressing a position of dire need. Who is out to prove that his injuries were flukes and that he is worth his contract and is being reunited with the coach who got him drafted in the 1st round in the 1st place.

I think it is very exciting and barring injury or set-back I think we do see him on the field this year.

But for now I just can't get past his inability to stay healthy. I will reserve the excitement until we see him first passing the physical then working at TC.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

I have been as critical of the FO as anyone since I began posting, and any praise of the FO now has to be tempered by the fact that we TRIED to give away our draft to the Bengals for Chad Johnson. However, I think we have to recognize that the FO has largely changed how it has done business this off-season. Yes, we were rebuffed on Johnson, but there were plenty of other places where we could have spent our draft choice currency this off-season. It seems like every overweight big-name DT in the league got traded this off-season, and it is unimaginable that a year or two ago we would not have been a participant. Lance Briggs was out there for the signing in free agency; had this been 2007, we would have been all over him. We signed one unrestricted free agent, a 4th-tier guy (and already have cut him). We wanted WR DJ Hackett and made him an offer that would have been advantageous to us if he had taken it. We refused to get into a bidding war with the Panthers for someone whose performance in the league so far does not merit a bidding war. We kept all of our draft choices and even picked up an extra one in trade.

The evidence is clear that the FO has changed. Let us hope that it is long-term and for the right reasons (change in organizational philisophy valuing draft choices, committment to depth and home-grown talent over flashy, fantasy-football moves) rather than a one-year only change for the wrong reasons (salary cap).

I'm not 100% certain that the FO has changed. There is evidence this season of a change but the attempt to trade for Chad somewhat undermines that. I need at least another off-season of retaiing our draft picks and not overspending on FAs to fully convince me of this change.

[culpeper]

Buzbee and Wilson are too light for that duty. If used as an in-game breather for Carter and insurance against injury this is a good move if it works out for both the team and James. He won't be asked to justify a 1st round pick, and the lower wear-and-tear be just what this player needs to succeed.

im actually more excited about buzbees potential than i am james. buzbee put on 15 pounds this offseason. james is coming off an injury (regardless of severity) that the player is not the same until year two.

On your post earlier Akh, are you really comparing Rivers, a 228lb plodding QB with a partial tear, to James, a 266+ rush DE with a 3 surgeries on the same knee in recent history?

there are the freaks out there that can operate without an acl. marc magro from west virginia never missed a game for WVU his entire career at LB....never had an ACL. im guessing rivers fits this category of "non-acl dependant" or "acl deficient".

[colkurtz]

I look at this acquisition as a long-term project - someone with potential; probably not a force until next season. Best case - someone who may be able to be a rotational pass rusher later in the season.

A smart move by the FO to get a first rounder for a seventh round throw away. Hey even if he only gets a sack or two it's better than some of the DE's we have on the team.

Although the Chad Johnson raised doubts, i think the philosophy of this team has changed toward keeping draft picks and looking for bargains versus always over-paying. Big change from the wild spending of previous seasons.

[PyroGenic]

I look at this acquisition as a long-term project - someone with potential; probably not a force until next season. Best case - someone who may be able to be a rotational pass rusher later in the season.

A smart move by the FO to get a first rounder for a seventh round throw away. Hey even if he only gets a sack or two it's better than some of the DE's we have on the team.

Although the Chad Johnson raised doubts, i think the philosophy of this team has changed toward keeping draft picks and looking for bargains versus always over-paying. Big change from the wild spending of previous seasons.

I don't understand this logic. The guy popped his ACL in December, which I'm assuming is much less severe than you know... tearing the thing and Keino stated earlier that he was already at 90% (although as to how they come up with that number, I haven't the slightest clue) so if he's already that stage of recovery after basically, what, around 6 months of recovery time, why would he not be ready to play for us by the start of the season let alone the start of training camp?

I used to think that the vikings failed him purposefully because they thought he was a lost cause, but now I know that it was simply due to the fact that he became expendable. The only reason why I think they (the vikings) would think that is if Mr. James were to lose his confidence and become timid in fear of damaging his knee any further. So I guess if it took him that long to build his confidence and get back into playing shape, he'd help us by the end of the season but I don't see why he wouldn't play earlier if he's cleared by the docs.

[lorimike]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

[culpeper]

I look at this acquisition as a long-term project - someone with potential; probably not a force until next season. Best case - someone who may be able to be a rotational pass rusher later in the season.

A smart move by the FO to get a first rounder for a seventh round throw away. Hey even if he only gets a sack or two it's better than some of the DE's we have on the team.

Although the Chad Johnson raised doubts, i think the philosophy of this team has changed toward keeping draft picks and looking for bargains versus always over-paying. Big change from the wild spending of previous seasons.

i agree...i think IF he finally turns it around, it will be next year, not this year. thats why im more interested in buzbee's progress. and we paid basically nothing for james, *golf clap* for the FO.

[Cowboys Suck]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

Call out the National Guard!! Seriously, is this conditional 7th round pick gonna really affect the team? You act as if the FO pulled a Lloyd/Archuleta again. :rolleyes:

[PyroGenic]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

If he was cut, we wouldn't have gotten him. Since he's played for less than 4 years or whatever the minimum is, he would have gone to waivers and another team would have claimed him before it was the 'skins turn. I don't see the big deal here since 7th rounders are pretty much after thoughts for us.

[Redblood]

i like this move we may lose a 7th but we will probably get one as a comp anyway(lost caldwell,prioleau,and macklin...gained mathis for a while still counts)

Please name the round we drafted each of the above.





(Music to Jeopardy plays in background.)



Answer: Is it None, Alex?

They were all FA's and no compensation will be forthcoming.


However, a 7th for the potential James has isn't such a bad idea. On that issue, we agree.


If he doesn't make the team, we get the pick back, so we can only gain from this trade.

[whitskins]

Please name the round we drafted each of the above.





(Music to Jeopardy plays in background.)



Answer: Is it None, Alex?

They were all FA's and no compensation will be forthcoming.




That doesn't matter, we got comp picks last year for losing Holdman and Wright. Whether or not we drafted them is not part of the rule.

[colkurtz]

I don't understand this logic. The guy popped his ACL in December, which I'm assuming is much less severe than you know... tearing the thing and Keino stated earlier that he was already at 90% (although as to how they come up with that number, I haven't the slightest clue) so if he's already that stage of recovery after basically, what, around 6 months of recovery time, why would he not be ready to play for us by the start of the season let alone the start of training camp?

I used to think that the vikings failed him purposefully because they thought he was a lost cause, but now I know that it was simply due to the fact that he became expendable. The only reason why I think they (the vikings) would think that is if Mr. James were to lose his confidence and become timid in fear of damaging his knee any further. So I guess if it took him that long to build his confidence and get back into playing shape, he'd help us by the end of the season but I don't see why he wouldn't play earlier if he's cleared by the docs.

He's had two injuries - why rush his recovery? The DL coach knows this young man and has some faith in him - otherwise they wouldn't have made this play. This trade was based on potential. I see him participating in TC but not even a rotational [regular-season] rusher until they think he is 100% ready; which to me is later in the season.

[akhhorus]

On your post earlier Akh, are you really comparing Rivers, a 228lb plodding QB with a partial tear, to James, a 266+ rush DE with a 3 surgeries on the same knee in recent history?

You asked for an example of someone who came back from an ACL tear. Your loaded question aside, Rivers played a AFC title game with one.

Further, we've yet to see how Rivers plays after his more minor surgery from January 23rd. If you were going to go down that road, what about Carson Palmer? Was he elite the year after his surgery? Culpepper? What about a more realistic comparison like Shawn Barber?

Actually Rivers played after the minor surgery. Culpepper, Rivers and Palmer all had different kinds of knee surgery.

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

LMAO predictable.

Its hilarious that the skins actually followed your theories in the draft and you're still upset. All you want to do is whine.

[FanFromArizona]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

Talk about Comic Relief, thanks for providing me a source of laughter, where do you come up with stuff like this? We traded a draft pick? First off, it's conditional. Secondly, I wonder if you can explain the difference between this draft pick and an UDFA? So at worst we lose 30 draft points to take a chance on him? I am sure the majority of us here sit in front of the TV tubes praying to the Gods that our defense do something late in the fourth quarter to prevent our opponents from scoring. For the risk of sacrificing 30 points over 16 games, we go for it!

Consider this thought: You just traded half your draft to get a premium pass-rusher. You have a limited amount of roster spots, have other areas of needs, do you hold onto a recovering from injury disappointment who at best will net you a late 2nd day pick? No.

Here's the question of the hour for you: Name me an active and starting DE that was drafted in the seventh round that made a meaningful contribution. Can you name them on two hands? For the chance to snare a starting DE at the cost of no more than 30 points........please get real with your opinions, statements like this border on illogical.

[MadDog97]

A 7th round conditional pick is not bad for a potential DE who could give us some playing time. There is a high risk of injury but if he recovers and plays well then it is worth it. I say this was a smart move from the front office.

[PyroGenic]

He's had two injuries - why rush his recovery? The DL coach knows this young man and has some faith in him - otherwise they wouldn't have made this play. This trade was based on potential. I see him participating in TC but not even a rotational [regular-season] rusher until they think he is 100% ready; which to me is later in the season.

The dline can use all the help it can get if we're gonna be running a cover 2... but regardless of whatever scheme we're running, the DE position is starved for talent.

[csquared]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

I was wondering how long it would take the "Draft Dud" to chime in about this trade. Guys we just lost our "Shot at Greatness" by trading that 7th rounder!

[bigcmr]

Smart move by the FO. I liked James when he was comming out of collage. Might turn into a surprize. He was a 1st rounder.

[shally]

Smart move by the FO. I liked James when he was comming out of collage. Might turn into a surprize. He was a 1st rounder.

...when he had 2 knees...now ? who knows what he has left

figure at the worst, if he is sound, he is a younger version of daniels

[shane88]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

Ummmm, care to explain just exactly HOW/WHY this is such a disasterous move??? I daresay the reward FAR outweighs the risk in this particular move. How many 7th rounder DE's contribute to a team, let alone even MAKE the team? I, as I'm sure most here, would love to hear this tale of imminent doom.:smash:

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Actually, if we had not traded to get him, he would've hit the waivers wire and gone to Miami or Oakland before we would get a chance to sign him. Both those teams were interested in him, and they have first dibs since the off season waivers go in order of worst record first. So if we had waited he would've been gone. Good move by the FO.

[GWBlitzST]

lorimike. . .

(chirp chirp)


How could anyone not smile at this seenubgly completely thought out and sensible move by the FO. Wonder if they even ran this by Zorn though.

[Meatsnack]

Per the SI.com 2005 draft profile (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/60683.html): (Bolded emphasis mine)

BIO: Three-year starter coming off a breakout senior campaign. Big-Ten Defensive Player of the Year after posting 36/11.5/8. Sat out the 2003 campaign with a hip injury after posting 57/8/4 the prior year.

POSITIVES: Excellent athlete making a big move up draft boards. Quick off the snap, plays low with leverage and immediately alters his angle of attack. Fluid moving up and down the line of scrimmage, redirects to the action and displays great range. Rarely off his feet and collapses outside-in to defend the run. Plays with excellent balance, fast off the edge and effective dropped off the line of scrimmage. Good speed to the sidelines and always working to get involved in the action. Solid hand technique fighting blocks.

NEGATIVES: Handled at the point by a single blocker and has difficulty if opponents run straight at him.

ANALYSIS: A disruptive force who opponents game-plan around, James combines athletic skills with intensity to force the action up the field. Answered a lot of questions last year and has gone from a possible first day pick to a potential top-15 selection.

So, it seems like what we have is a very talented player who plays hard when he can get on the field. He was considered a top 15 rated pick going into the 2005 draft and we spent a conditional 7th rounder on him. What's not to like? Unless you're Chris Wilson, where is the downside?

[shally]

Per the SI.com 2005 draft profile (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2005/draft/players/60683.html): (Bolded emphasis mine)



So, it seems like what we have is a very talented player who plays hard when he can get on the field. He was considered a top 15 rated pick going into the 2005 draft and we spent a conditional 7th rounder on him. What's not to like? Unless you're Chris Wilson, where is the downside?

the only potential downside is the "daryl gardener" syndrome.

we rescue a player off the ash heap and then he signs elsewhere after proving he is physically well (of course, how did that ultimately work out for DG and the broncos?)

the skins will need to be pro active and try to sign him long term if indeed he is fully healthy. if they wait too long he will hit the open market and wont be affordable. it is a balancing act because the skins dont want to sign him too soon and get stuck with damaged goods-- they dont want to wait too long and lose him if he is finally healthy

[Brokenstriker]

did Terry Allen have knee surgery twice on the same knee (or was it surgeries on both knees) prior to going to the Pro Bowl for the Skins?

[Meatsnack]

the only potential downside is the "daryl gardener" syndrome.

we rescue a player off the ash heap and then he signs elsewhere after proving he is physically well (of course, how did that ultimately work out for DG and the broncos?)

the skins will need to be pro active and try to sign him long term if indeed he is fully healthy. if they wait too long he will hit the open market and wont be affordable. it is a balancing act because the skins dont want to sign him too soon and get stuck with damaged goods-- they dont want to wait too long and lose him if he is finally healthy

Yeah, the "Daryl Gardner" syndrome isn't a downside. Gardner was never fully healthy with us as he showed in Denver. I knew when we didn't throw money at the guy he was toast, restraint and Snyder could never be used together at that time. In any case, that is just life in the post-FA NFL as opposed to a downside for the acquisition. We rehabilitated Ki-Jana Carter similarly and I was fine seeing him go. We got our money's worth out of the guy.

Unlike some positions, if his knee isn;t recovered, having a 300+ pound O-lineman leaning on it should let everyone know pretty quickly. I hope for Erasmus' sake that it is, any benefit to the Redskins aside. A man that young shouldn't have to wonder whether his knee is sound or not.

[shally]

did Terry Allen have knee surgery twice on the same knee (or was it surgeries on both knees) prior to going to the Pro Bowl for the Skins?


allen had acl reconstructions of both knees

he was at the dawn of the modern age of knee recontruction and he was the first, i believe, to recover from bilateral ACL tears and resume a successful nfl career.

now, it is not that unusual ( see frank gore for another productive back who has had both knees done)

[skin4ever]

Ummmm, care to explain just exactly HOW/WHY this is such a disasterous move??? I daresay the reward FAR outweighs the risk in this particular move. How many 7th rounder DE's contribute to a team, let alone even MAKE the team? I, as I'm sure most here, would love to hear this tale of imminent doom.:smash:

we will see(with regard to a 7th rounder making the team),I dont remember if it was a 6th or 7th, but we got one late rounder. But i do agree with your statements. No one should cry about losing a 7th rounder, i would trade a 7th rounder for a good cheeseburger, even if i wasnt hungry.

[shane88]

we will see(with regard to a 7th rounder making the team),I dont remember if it was a 6th or 7th, but we got one late rounder. But i do agree with your statements. No one should cry about losing a 7th rounder, i would trade a 7th rounder for a good cheeseburger, even if i wasnt hungry.

Mmmmmm, cheeseburgers....

[Skins7ny]

the only potential downside is the "daryl gardener" syndrome.

we rescue a player off the ash heap and then he signs elsewhere after proving he is physically well (of course, how did that ultimately work out for DG and the broncos?)

the skins will need to be pro active and try to sign him long term if indeed he is fully healthy. if they wait too long he will hit the open market and wont be affordable. it is a balancing act because the skins dont want to sign him too soon and get stuck with damaged goods-- they dont want to wait too long and lose him if he is finally healthy
The good news is that he has 2 years left on his contract, so we will have plenty of time to make that decision. I hope that this is something we are concerned about a year from now.

My bigger fear is that he makes it healthy through camp, makes the roster, and heaven forbid blows out his knee again. Then we owe the 7th-rounder and get nothing out of James. As much as I hate giving up draft picks in any round, this is definitely worth the risk and a smart move. Palermo will get the best out of him, he is a hard worker and loves the game. And pass-rushing DEs don't grow on trees, as we all know!

[lorimike]

I was wondering how long it would take the "Draft Dud" to chime in about this trade. Guys we just lost our "Shot at Greatness" by trading that 7th rounder!>>>>>

He was going to be cut. Why trade a pick for a player who was going to be cut?? a 7th rounder is a lottery ticket, albeit a low chance at sucess but once in a while a Tom Brady. But your right it is only a 7th rounder, I guess we get that back if he doesn't make the team and we certainly need a left defensive end.

[whitskins]

>>>>>

He was going to be cut. Why trade a pick for a player who was going to be cut?? a 7th rounder is a lottery ticket, albeit a low chance at sucess but once in a while a Tom Brady. But your right it is only a 7th rounder, I guess we get that back if he doesn't make the team and we certainly need a left defensive end.

He wasn't going to be cut. He was going to be waived. There is a difference and you should understand it before going on another of your typical meltdowns.

There was no way we were going to get the guy if he was WAIVED, because twenty other teams would have had the chance to get to him first. The only way we could get him was to trade for his rights before he was waived.

[PyroGenic]

>>>>>

He was going to be cut. Why trade a pick for a player who was going to be cut?? a 7th rounder is a lottery ticket, albeit a low chance at sucess but once in a while a Tom Brady. But your right it is only a 7th rounder, I guess we get that back if he doesn't make the team and we certainly need a left defensive end.

Do you read? There were at least 2 explanations of why we used a CONDITIONAL 7th rounder to get the guy in between your two posts.

[lorimike]

He wasn't going to be cut. He was going to be waived. There is a difference and you should understand it before going on another of your typical meltdowns.

There was no way we were going to get the guy if he was WAIVED, because twenty other teams would have had the chance to get to him first. The only way we could get him was to trade for his rights before he was waived.>>>>
That is assuming that the 20 teams with a shot at James before us would pick him up. Skins obviously thought he would get picked up quickly so they traded for him. No big deal, a 7th round gamble on James isn't the end of the world. If he doesn't make the team we lose nothing. But geez I find it hard to believe he can ever play again considering the knee problems. What if he makes the team and then blows his knee out..... once again no big deal cause it is a 7th rounder but still a draft pick

[lorimike]

Do you read? There were at least 2 explanations of why we used a CONDITIONAL 7th rounder to get the guy in between your two posts.
>>>

Yes yes. I know, It's a low risk deal and he would have not cleared waivers from the 20 teams ahead of us.

[akhhorus]

>>>>
That is assuming that the 20 teams with a shot at James before us would pick him up. Skins obviously thought he would get picked up quickly so they traded for him. [b] No big deal, a 7th round gamble on James isn't the end of the world. If he doesn't make the team we lose nothing. But geez I find it hard to believe he can ever play again considering the knee problems. What if he makes the team and then blows his knee out..... once again no big deal cause it is a 7th rounder but still a draft pick

Christ, have you become Gollum with even 7th round draft picks now? If James can't play, he's cut and we're out nothing. And its not an assumption that someone in the 20 teams in front of us in waivers was going to claim him. Yet you come here and bitch and moan like we gave up 3 first round picks.

[lorimike]

Christ, have you become Gollum with even 7th round draft picks now? If James can't play, he's cut and we're out nothing. And its not an assumption that someone in the 20 teams in front of us in waivers was going to claim him. Yet you come here and bitch and moan like we gave up 3 first round picks.>>>

It's the offseason and I'm bored. It isn't any big deal. But the team obviosly knows they have a glaring need at defensive line yet they continually ignore the position with higher draft picks. I think Calais Campbell would have been a better pick than Fred " I'm out too late " Davis.

[akhhorus]

>>>

It's the offseason and I'm bored. It isn't any big deal.

You're so full of it. You're bored and this isn't a big deal, but you felt motivated to post this:

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

Right...sure...you didn't mean the tone you expressed here /sarcasm

But the team obviosly knows they have a glaring need at defensive line yet they continually ignore the position with higher draft picks. I think Calais Campbell would have been a better pick than Fred " I'm out too late " Davis.

Hey, but the skins were just taking your advice and maximizing their chances by trading for more picks...and yet you bitch and moan when they do exactly what you have been dogmatically whining about the entire offseason.

[shane88]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny

>>>>
That is assuming that the 20 teams with a shot at James before us would pick him up. Skins obviously thought he would get picked up quickly so they traded for him. No big deal, a 7th round gamble on James isn't the end of the world. If he doesn't make the team we lose nothing. But geez I find it hard to believe he can ever play again considering the knee problems. What if he makes the team and then blows his knee out..... once again no big deal cause it is a 7th rounder but still a draft pick

So, which is it? The end of mankind as we know it? Or no big deal? I'm confuuuuused(<--in my best Lewis Black voice).

[firehawk157]

Please name the round we drafted each of the above.





(Music to Jeopardy plays in background.)



Answer: Is it None, Alex?

They were all FA's and no compensation will be forthcoming.


However, a 7th for the potential James has isn't such a bad idea. On that issue, we agree.


If he doesn't make the team, we get the pick back, so we can only gain from this trade.
Let's hope your other 655 posts are more informed than this. Comp picks are based on what you lose to FA (has nothing to do with the draft) and is completely dependent on number of snaps and the contract. Dockery netted us a 3rd while Arch (a 1st) netted us nothing...

[akhhorus]

Let's hope your other 655 posts are more informed than this. Comp picks are based on what you lose to FA (has nothing to do with the draft) and is completely dependent on number of snaps and the contract. Dockery netted us a 3rd while Arch (a 1st) netted us nothing...

I think he means that if James doesn't make the team, we don't owe the Vikes a 7th.

[guess88]

I still find it hard to fathom that anyone can think was a bad deal.

[hogskins]

I still find it hard to fathom that anyone can think was a bad deal.

Yep--low-to-no risk, with a broad range of upside potential. Not a big deal, except that we're all so hungry to get lucky at his position, I think.

[Skins7ny]

He wasn't going to be cut. He was going to be waived. There is a difference and you should understand it before going on another of your typical meltdowns.

There was no way we were going to get the guy if he was WAIVED, because twenty other teams would have had the chance to get to him first. The only way we could get him was to trade for his rights before he was waived.

I still find it hard to fathom that anyone can think was a bad deal.

I was highly critical when we traded a 5th-round pick for James Thrash when Gibbs returned. That is because the Eagles were about to cut Thrash, who as a vested veteran did not have to clear waivers. By getting "cut" and not "waived", he would have become an instant free agent. Given his history with the team, his lack of suitors and the fact his gym business is here, there is no way he would not have returned home to play for Joe Gibbs. But instead of getting him for free, we gratuitously gave our arch-rival Philly a valuable 5th-round pick for him.

This is not that situation. James has less than 4 years of vested service, so he is subject to waivers, and there is no doubt that multiple teams ahead of us were prepared to put in a waiver claim for him. We would not have gotten him, period. By making the trade, we gain the rights to a promising young player at a position of crying need and reunite with his college position coach. It is a conditional pick, so we have until August 30 to decide if we even want to make the trade-he is basically on loan to us for the entire training camp. Yes, there is a risk that he gets hurt after he makes the team, but then we are only out a 7th. Overwhelmingly worth the risk, if he is 90% healthy now as they say. I think Clean Slate deserves a lot of credit for aggressive thinking without overpaying. This move could pay huge dividends, and even if it doesn't, it was a smart move to make.

[Keino]

I was highly critical when we traded a 5th-round pick for James Thrash when Gibbs returned. That is because the Eagles were about to cut Thrash, who as a vested veteran did not have to clear waivers. By getting "cut" and not "waived", he would have become an instant free agent. Given his history with the team, his lack of suitors and the fact his gym business is here, there is no way he would not have returned home to play for Joe Gibbs. But instead of getting him for free, we gratuitously gave our arch-rival Philly a valuable 5th-round pick for him.

This is not that situation. James has less than 4 years of vested service, so he is subject to waivers, and there is no doubt that multiple teams ahead of us were prepared to put in a waiver claim for him. We would not have gotten him, period. By making the trade, we gain the rights to a promising young player at a position of crying need and reunite with his college position coach. It is a conditional pick, so we have until August 30 to decide if we even want to make the trade-he is basically on loan to us for the entire training camp. Yes, there is a risk that he gets hurt after he makes the team, but then we are only out a 7th. Overwhelmingly worth the risk, if he is 90% healthy now as they say. I think Clean Slate deserves a lot of credit for aggressive thinking without overpaying. This move could pay huge dividends, and even if it doesn't, it was a smart move to make.


I think this may the first time I have agreed word for word with one of your posts. Even if it doesn't work out, the move is fantastic and has greater chance of success of working out than the player we could have drafted in the 7th round.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Christ, have you become Gollum with even 7th round draft picks now? If James can't play, he's cut and we're out nothing. And its not an assumption that someone in the 20 teams in front of us in waivers was going to claim him. Yet you come here and bitch and moan like we gave up 3 first round picks.

This is actually a good point. We have complete control over this. If we like him, it cost a 7, if we don't we get the 7 back. I wish we could use all of our picks like that.

[Skins7ny]

I think this may the first time I have agreed word for word with one of your posts. Even if it doesn't work out, the move is fantastic and has greater chance of success of working out than the player we could have drafted in the 7th round.

Wow! And it only took me 3 years and 900+ posts! :)

[Keino]

Wow! And it only took me 3 years and 900+ posts! :)

Well I rarely agree with anyone word for word...:sun:

[AliBabba]

So we traded a draft pick for a player the Viking cut?????? Are we friggin nuts! We are the suckers of the NFL. Please Dan - I'll do Vinny's job for $ 125,000 a year. You'll get better drafts and better players then the money your shelling out for Vinny
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me ....

http://captained.blogs.com/photos/family/small_pa310017.jpeg

[akhhorus]

Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me ....

http://captained.blogs.com/photos/family/small_pa310017.jpeg

This is the last time I send you a picture of myself....

[Keino]

Thanks Ali. I have clean my keyboard now.

[skin4ever]

This is the last time I send you a picture of myself....

lmao

[Skins7ny]

I think this may the first time I have agreed word for word with one of your posts. Even if it doesn't work out, the move is fantastic and has greater chance of success of working out than the player we could have drafted in the 7th round.

Is anyone else wondering why we haven't heard anything from the Park about Erasmus James passing his physical? He was supposed to have it Wednesday, then LaCanfora said it would be Thursday. He has not updated his blog since then, and the Skins website also has no update. I hope this doesn't mean that he failed it and they are saviong the news for tonight or tomorrow night at 6 pm so it will be buried in the news. I am really hoping that this works out for us and for the player.

[Keino]

Is anyone else wondering why we haven't heard anything from the Park about Erasmus James passing his physical? He was supposed to have it Wednesday, then LaCanfora said it would be Thursday. He has not updated his blog since then, and the Skins website also has no update. I hope this doesn't mean that he failed it and they are saviong the news for tonight or tomorrow night at 6 pm so it will be buried in the news. I am really hoping that this works out for us and for the player.

I would think that the Skins are going to take their time with this since they have until August 30 to decide.

[AliBabba]

I would think that the Skins are going to take their time with this since they have until August 30 to decide.
to your point JLC said something to the effect of the physical really not mattering at this point and that they will just see what they have come July/Aug camps

[lorimike]

You're so full of it. You're bored and this isn't a big deal, but you felt motivated to post this:yup



Right...sure...you didn't mean the tone you expressed here /sarcasm>>>
I admit I was impulsive with my first post. Carefull examination of the facts shows the deal is probably nothing more than a yawn



Hey, but the skins were just taking your advice and maximizing their chances by trading for more picks...and yet you bitch and moan when they do exactly what you have been dogmatically whining about the entire offseason.>>> I didn't have a problem with the trade down just that Calais Campbell would have been just as much value and at a need position than Fred Davis.

[akhhorus]

>>> I didn't have a problem with the trade down just that Calais Campbell would have been just as much value and at a need position than Fred Davis.

So, you finally realize what we were saying that a draft pick is only as good as the person making it?

[Skins7ny]

I would think that the Skins are going to take their time with this since they have until August 30 to decide.
I think OTAs resume on Monday.
to your point JLC said something to the effect of the physical really not mattering at this point and that they will just see what they have come July/Aug camps
Maybe they don't plan on him participating in OTAs even if he passes. The fact that they already have listed him on the roster tells me that he is passing his physical. But I just wonder why the announced plan has changed. Will have to wait for the news release from the Kremlin, I mean Ashburn.

[lorimike]

So, you finally realize what we were saying that a draft pick is only as good as the person making it?<< <

I don't disagree with that. But if we are forever doomed to duff our draft picks then how can we expect to be pereniall contender? Just fire the guy making the picks and hire someone else

[akhhorus]

<< <

I don't disagree with that.

That concept I posted above flies in the face of your dogma.

But if we are forever doomed to duff our draft picks then how can we expect to be pereniall contender? Just fire the guy making the picks and hire someone else

How is trading a conditional 7th round pick, which we don't give up if James doesn't make the team, duffing the pick? Or why are you losing your cool over a 7th round pick?

Don't bother, you can't answer those questions.

Btw: odd that I'm the only one you really responded to. How about responding to the legion of others who criticized your nonsense? Or you can whine about how I "pick on you" or something.

[Keino]

I think OTAs resume on Monday.

Maybe they don't plan on him participating in OTAs even if he passes. The fact that they already have listed him on the roster tells me that he is passing his physical. But I just wonder why the announced plan has changed. Will have to wait for the news release from the Kremlin, I mean Ashburn.

I think you are reading far too much into it. The deal isn't contingent upon him passing a physical, but rather making the team. The team knows he is still rehabbing.

I suspect his participation in OTAs will be limited.

[skinsfan36]

lorimike he was going to be waived and the claiming order goes by record like the draft until the season starts we werent going to be able to get him. this i a win/win if hes good we got him for a 7th if we keep him and hes ok we lose a 7th. if he sucks we get our 7th back

[lorimike]

That concept I posted above flies in the face of your dogma.>>>

If you have really been reading I stated that, if the reason we need to trade the picks is because we cannot draft well then we needed to find people who can draft well. If the guy making the picks can't pick it will fail no matter how many picks we have. If the guy trading the picks does not get good value in return then it will fail just the same. i.e. 3rd and 4th for Llloyd, 3rd and 4th for Duckett. Big money deals for Archuletta, Deion Sanders etc. Hire someone like Polian and we could build a perenial 12-4 team. You call this dogma I call it a strategy built on draft well first philosophy. Polian was on NFL Radio several weeks explaining the very things I talk about and advocate for. You build through the draft, and are carefull with the free agency spending, and concentrate on resigning your own good players



How is trading a conditional 7th round pick, which we don't give up if James doesn't make the team, duffing the pick? Or why are you losing your cool over a 7th round pick? <<<

I admitted my original post was impulsive. The trade is no big deal.

Don't bother, you can't answer those questions.

Are we going to debate topics are just continue to play this game of " gotcha".
Btw: odd that I'm the only one you really responded to. How about responding to the legion of others who criticized your nonsense? Or you can whine about how I "pick on you" or something.

You are just brutal. sports is meant to be a diversion from everyday life. I don't mind disagreeing with me at all- just that you always want to make it a smackdown.

[lorimike]

lorimike he was going to be waived and the claiming order goes by record like the draft until the season starts we werent going to be able to get him. this i a win/win if hes good we got him for a 7th if we keep him and hes ok we lose a 7th. if he sucks we get our 7th back<<<

I know. I over-reacted.

[akhhorus]

You are just brutal. sports is meant to be a diversion from everyday life. I don't mind disagreeing with me at all- just that you always want to make it a smackdown.

Says the person who loses their mind because the skins traded a conditional 7th round pick....

[lorimike]

Says the person who loses their mind because the skins traded a conditional 7th round pick....>>>

Would you stop already- I think I admitted I over-reacted.

[akhhorus]

>>>

Would you stop already- I think I admitted I over-reacted.

You do nothing but over-react(and whine). And again: how about responding to some of the others who criticized you. Otherwise you can't bitch that I'm picking on you.

[lorimike]

You do nothing but over-react(and whine). And again: how about responding to some of the others who criticized you. Otherwise you can't bitch that I'm picking on you.<<<

Well if you say so OK. I think I responded to another poster in this thread two times. But You always have to have the last word. Eventually I just get bored with you so I allow you the last word. But really Ank it is ok to just leave a response alone. You don't have to respond to everything. In fact how about not responding to this .... please

[akhhorus]

<<<

Well if you say so OK. I think I responded to another poster in this thread two times. But You always have to have the last word. Eventually I just get bored with you so I allow you the last word. But really Ank it is ok to just leave a response alone. You don't have to respond to everything. In fact how about not responding to this .... please

Its funny that you post something like this as an attempt to try and get the last word. If you actually felt what you wrote here, you wouldn't have wrote it.

I look forward to laughing at your next whining about us dealing away a 7th rounder for some player. Or your next whine about how the skins did exactly what you wanted them to do, but you're still upset. I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing this team does makes you happy ever. Even when they do exactly what you've been calling for them to do, you still complain. You're not a fan, you're just happy complaining about the Skins.

[FunBunch5]

Its funny that you post something like this as an attempt to try and get the last word. If you actually felt what you wrote here, you wouldn't have wrote it.

I look forward to laughing at your next whining about us dealing away a 7th rounder for some player. Or your next whine about how the skins did exactly what you wanted them to do, but you're still upset. I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing this team does makes you happy ever. Even when they do exactly what you've been calling for them to do, you still complain. You're not a fan, you're just happy complaining about the Skins.

Why can't the guy have his opinion? He even said he over-reacted, so obviously you won him over to your side. I don't see a reason to constantly hammer the guy.

[csquared]

Why can't the guy have his opinion? He even said he over-reacted, so obviously you won him over to your side. I don't see a reason to constantly hammer the guy.

If you knew the history you would understand why. Since you dont either go back and read some of his posts to understand or just stay out of it.

[shane88]

Why can't the guy have his opinion? He even said he over-reacted, so obviously you won him over to your side. I don't see a reason to constantly hammer the guy.

Well, when you profess to be a draft "expert" and criticize and complain about anything/everything the Redskins FO does, even when they do what you wanted them to do in the first place....when you go off the deep end because the Redskins traded a "conditional" 7th round draft pick with potential to play...when you don't read previous posts stating said player was NOT cut and wouldn't have made it thru waivers by the time we came around...when you say the team should hire you to be the personell guy....when you do this kinda stuff, you tend to place a rather large bullseye on yourself!

[FunBunch5]

If you knew the history you would understand why. Since you dont either go back and read some of his posts to understand or just stay out of it.

I have seen his post and I do know his history. I have seen the banter between Lori and AKH in other post and most of the time it makes for a good read. However, it seems like he has got a bad name because he offers alternative opinions (albeit sometimes abrasively), but it is those alternative opinions that also make the forum interesting. I don't agree with his logic about the Erasmus James trade, but the conversation went from Redskin discussion to p*ssing contest.

[FunBunch5]

Well, when you profess to be a draft "expert" and criticize and complain about anything/everything the Redskins FO does, even when they do what you wanted them to do in the first place....when you go off the deep end because the Redskins traded a "conditional" 7th round draft pick with potential to play...when you don't read previous posts stating said player was NOT cut and wouldn't have made it thru waivers by the time we came around...when you say the team should hire you to be the personell guy....when you do this kinda stuff, you tend to place a rather large bullseye on yourself!

Agreed the dude says emotional stuff without thinking things through. However, I feel bad for the guy because he did back down and said he overreacted.

[akhhorus]

I have seen his post and I do know his history. I have seen the banter between Lori and AKH in other post and most of the time it makes for a good read. However, it seems like he has got a bad name because he offers alternative opinions (albeit sometimes abrasively), but it is those alternative opinions that also make the forum interesting. I don't agree with his logic about the Erasmus James trade, but the conversation went from Redskin discussion to p*ssing contest.

Its not a pissing contest. Its just the typical nonsense from lorimike, only he's turned into a total hypocrite now since he's whining about what the skins did in the draft, when thats exactly what he was advocating all offseason. He doesn't offer alternative opinions, he offers whining, complaining and 2nd guessing-only to see all this continue even when skins do exactly what he's been bitching for them to do.

This James trade is just more proof for what he is: a whiner who just wants to bitch about the skins no matter what. The Redskins could have gotten Julius Peppers for that conditional 7th and Lorimike would still complain about the trade.

[PA Skins Girl]

Skins got Julius Peppers?!!! Awesome!!!

[akhhorus]

Skins got Julius Peppers?!!! Awesome!!!

:lol1: If he doesn't make the team, we don't owe a 7th, if he does, then we owe 3 first rounders lol.

[PA Skins Girl]

:lol1: If he doesn't make the team, we don't owe a 7th, if he does, then we owe 3 first rounders lol.

Sounds fair!

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

If you knew the history you would understand why. Since you dont either go back and read some of his posts to understand or just stay out of it.
That post was between Akh, FunBunch and lorimike as far as I can tell. By the same logic you use, you should probably "just stay out of it" too and let the man express his opinion. I don't know any rule that prohibits a member to express himself as FunBunch did.

[csquared]

That post was between Akh, FunBunch and lorimike as far as I can tell. By the same logic you use, you should probably "just stay out of it" too and let the man express his opinion. I don't know any rule that prohibits a member to express himself as FunBunch did.

Again ill repeat myself to you... If you dont know the history either look it up or stay out of it. Il give you a hint go look before the draft and find some posts about the Redskin draft strategy.

[lorimike]

Its funny that you post something like this as an attempt to try and get the last word. If you actually felt what you wrote here, you wouldn't have wrote it.

I look forward to laughing at your next whining about us dealing away a 7th rounder for some player. Or your next whine about how the skins did exactly what you wanted them to do, but you're still upset. I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing this team does makes you happy ever. Even when they do exactly what you've been calling for them to do, you still complain. You're not a fan, you're just happy complaining about the Skins.>>>

I wrote that the trade down and the aquisition of Devin Thomas at the top of round 2 was smart. You see Ank, how about getting your facts straight once in a while.

[lorimike]

Its funny that you post something like this as an attempt to try and get the last word. If you actually felt what you wrote here, you wouldn't have wrote it.

I look forward to laughing at your next whining about us dealing away a 7th rounder for some player. Or your next whine about how the skins did exactly what you wanted them to do, but you're still upset. I've said it before and I'll say it again: nothing this team does makes you happy ever. Even when they do exactly what you've been calling for them to do, you still complain. You're not a fan, you're just happy complaining about the Skins.<<<<

I think if you look at the win loss record since 1992 you can see why some fans are disgruntled. You see I'm not happy with a brief playoff appearance once in a while. So when you have a track record like the Skins do for the past 15 years I think questioning every move is fair game. I am a fan though. I'm not making the four easy payments of $ 49.99 to directv to watch Redskin games because I'm a non fan. But hey if want to continue to distort my views and take my posts out of their entire context go ahead.

[akhhorus]

>>>

I wrote that the trade down and the aquisition of Devin Thomas at the top of round 2 was smart. You see Ank, how about getting your facts straight once in a while.

And when the skins were dealing down in the 2nd day you did nothing but bitch about it. I called you out on this during the 2nd day of the draft. Don't distort.

<<<<

I think if you look at the win loss record since 1992 you can see why some fans are disgruntled. You see I'm not happy with a brief playoff appearance once in a while. So when you have a track record like the Skins do for the past 15 years I think questioning every move is fair game.

The Skins' track record since 1992 does nothing to justify your dogmatic nonsense and to validate your whining over any move-no matter how smart or not-when it involves us giving away a draft pick. If you truly gave a crap about fixing the redskins' problems on the field, then you wouldn't whine when they made a good trade, even if it means giving up one of your precious draft picks.

I am a fan though.

I have yet to see any evidence of that.

I'm not making the four easy payments of $ 49.99 to directv to watch Redskin games because I'm a non fan.

I'm not a fan of any MLB team, but I shelled out 200 for the extra innings package.

But hey if want to continue to distort my views and take my posts out of their entire context go ahead.

I haven't distorted any posts of yours, nor have I taken it out of context...nor has anyone else who's criticized you for similar things(but I'm sure you think its some giant conspiracy).

[lorimike]

Again ill repeat myself to you... If you dont know the history either look it up or stay out of it. Il give you a hint go look before the draft and find some posts about the Redskin draft strategy.<<<<

Yes it called draft, develope, and resign. But that's just stupid isn't it

[lorimike]

And when the skins were dealing down in the 2nd day you did nothing but bitch about it. I called you out on this during the 2nd day of the draft. Don't distort. We needed some defensive line help and had some players available when picking in the later rounds but chose to trade down



The Skins' track record since 1992 does nothing to justify your dogmatic nonsense and to validate your whining over any move-no matter how smart or not-when it involves us giving away a draft pick. If you truly gave a crap about fixing the redskins' problems on the field, then you wouldn't whine when they made a good trade, even if it means giving up one of your precious draft picks.

I think you confuse an opinion with whining. Which is why you are a lowly HR Staff writer and not working for a legitimate media outlet

I have yet to see any evidence of that. Umm. why would I post here I did not care


I'm not a fan of any MLB team, but I shelled out 200 for the extra innings package.

Couldn't you have donated that money to Charity?


I haven't distorted any posts of yours, nor have I taken it out of context...nor has anyone else who's criticized you for similar things(but I'm sure you think its some giant conspiracy).

Sure you do when You cut up a paragraph and go sentence sentence and leave out whatever doesn't fit into your cyber bullying agenda

[akhhorus]

I felt there were some players at the defensive line spot that would have been good fits here. I think your confusing an opinion with whining. Isn't the whole point of this board to expouse and opinion?

No, you were whining about the skins trading down when there were players you liked in those 2nd day rounds. That contradicts everything you've posted about picking up extra picks.

I think you confuse an opinion with whining.

Everyone can have an opinion, but if your "opinion" is non-stop bitching and moaning-which yours is-expect to be called out for it.

Which is why you are a lowly HR Staff writer and not working for a legitimate media outlet

I'm not in the sports media business. So, why does this matter?

If I didn't care then why would I even waste my time posting on here?

There are people who just like to bitch and moan to try and make people as miserable as they are.


My blog should prove otherwise

More whining. Nothing the skins do is right to you, ever. Even when the skins do something that turned out to be a smart move(like trading for Kendell or not cutting Clinton Portis), you try to keep your mea culpa to as quick as possible and as conditionally claused as possible.

If you are not a fan then why would you do that. Couldn't you have donated the money to charity?

Because I like watching baseball.

I think you do when cut up a paragrah and go sentence by sentence and leave out what doesn't fit into your cyber bullying agenda

I didn't cut anything out from your previous posts. And I'm not bullying you, just calling you out for your nonsense(like the many others in this thread doing the same thing).

[akhhorus]

<<<<

Yes it called draft, develope, and resign. But that's just stupid isn't it

So, the skins do that, and deal away a pick for a young player that costs them a pick only if he makes the team and yet you still whine.

[lorimike]

So, the skins do that, and deal away a pick for a young player that costs them a pic only if he makes the team and yet you still whine.<<<

The team needs a pass rush. Obviosly they recognize that or why trade for Erasmus James? But the trade is like putting a band aid on a shotgun wound. With all the knee surgeries I would be shocked if Erasmus James ever plays a down for us. I admit they gave up nothing for him and have admitted that I over reacted in my initial post on the subject. I am all for trading down and getting more picks but the exercising of those picks this past draft left a little to be desired other than Devin Thomas. I felt we had so many needs that we could not afford the luxury of drafting Fred Davis or doubling down at the receiver position with Malcolm Kelly. The albatross this coming season will once again be our pass rush because we refuse to take some shots with defensive lineman in the top part of our drafts.

[lorimike]

No, you were whining about the skins trading down when there were players you liked in those 2nd day rounds. That contradicts everything you've posted about picking up extra picks. <<<<

Ank you should be on Fox News with all this " gotcha " and " buwhatabout" stuff. I guess we could keep trading down the entire draft and end up with 25 7th rounders. I hope you didn't construe my advocacy for trading down to mean that. At some point if there is guy you like you need to exercise the pick.



Everyone can have an opinion, but if your "opinion" is non-stop bitching and moaning-which yours is-expect to be called out for it.

once again with the bullying. I feel this debate could have been concluded long ago. To continue reflects upon an inner hatred you feel for anyone who dare disagree with you.



I'm not in the sports media business. So, why does this matter? You certainly act as if your some sort of friggin authority


There are people who just like to bitch and moan to try and make people as miserable as they are.

Only a miserable person would respond the way that you do to my posts.

More whining. Nothing the skins do is right to you, ever. Even when the skins do something that turned out to be a smart move(like trading for Kendell or not cutting Clinton Portis), you try to keep your mea culpa to as quick as possible and as conditionally claused as possible.

There you go again Ank. At least try to get some of facts straight. I wrote on numerous occasions that I like the trade down and aquisition of Devin Thomas at the top of round 2.



Because I like watching baseball. You need a life


I didn't cut anything out from your previous posts. And I'm not bullying you, just calling you out for your nonsense(like the many others in this thread doing the same thing).

You do this constantly. So say otherwise is simply false. To cut up ones post sentence by sentece is only done to take things out of context.

[akhhorus]

<<<

The team needs a pass rush. Obviosly they recognize that or why trade for Erasmus James? But the trade is like putting a band aid on a shotgun wound. With all the knee surgeries I would be shocked if Erasmus James ever plays a down for us. I admit they gave up nothing for him and have admitted that I over reacted in my initial post on the subject. I am all for trading down and getting more picks but the exercising of those picks this past draft left a little to be desired other than Devin Thomas. I felt we had so many needs that we could not afford the luxury of drafting Fred Davis or doubling down at the receiver position with Malcolm Kelly.

Then you shouldn't be dogmatically saying that you have to pick up more picks to maximize your chances(which is what you've said is your philosophy). Its also hilarious that you hold the Giants as your example of great drafting, yet they did more egregious violations of what you're complaining about here(and in the past with the Eli trade). They had dire needs elsewhere in previous years, but took players at positions that they didn't need(Tuck, Kiwi and others when they had Strahan and Osi) because they thought that they were talent too good to pass on--but when the skins do the same thing and address their red zone problems with Thomas, Davis and Kelly, its a terrible move to you.

The albatross this coming season will once again be our pass rush because we refuse to take some shots with defensive lineman in the top part of our drafts.

I expect you to be fully behind trading away whatever necessary for Jason Taylor then.

[akhhorus]

Ank you should be on Fox News with all this " gotcha " and " buwhatabout" stuff.

*yawn*

I guess we could keep trading down the entire draft and end up with 25 7th rounders. I hope you didn't construe my advocacy for trading down to mean that. At some point if there is guy you like you need to exercise the pick.

I would hope you learn something from what you say here, but I doubt it.

once again with the bullying. I feel this debate could have been concluded long ago. To continue reflects upon an inner hatred you feel for anyone who dare disagree with you.

Criticizing isn't bullying. And I'm not the only person who's criticizing you here.

You certainly act as if your some sort of friggin authority

And don't you try to do the same with your condescending postings on draft theories? You're also obsessed with the fact that I'm listed as a writer here, and I don't know why(unless you're bitter or something).

Only a miserable person would respond the way that you do to my posts.

Responding to someone so that they know what part you're responding to isn't being miserable. Constantly bitching and moaning about a team's moves, no matter what, is a sign of being a miserable person-which you seem to be.

There you go again Ank. At least try to get some of facts straight. I wrote on numerous occasions that I like the trade down and aquisition of Devin Thomas at the top of round 2.

I can't find any posts where you mention Devin Thomas except for you mentioning what he did against PSU. You did menton the trade down once:
"
They are going to tell us value. I mean as far as the Fred Davis pick- it's not like he's a nobody- he did win the Mackey award but with Cooley on the roster I would have selected Calais Campbell. The selection of Kelly is perplexing but once again with the size and college production they view him as good value- I just wonder if we will try to trade Santana or Randel El at this point."

Thats it.

You need a life

:rolleyes:

You do this constantly. So say otherwise is simply false. To cut up ones post sentence by sentece is only done to take things out of context.

And ironically enough, you do it a lot also. I haven't taken anything you've said out of context-cut up or not.

[lorimike]

Then you shouldn't be dogmatically saying that you have to pick up more picks to maximize your chances(which is what you've said is your philosophy). Its also hilarious that you hold the Giants as your example of great drafting, yet they did more egregious violations of what you're complaining about here(and in the past with the Eli trade). They had dire needs elsewhere in previous years, but took players at positions that they didn't need(Tuck, Kiwi and others when they had Strahan and Osi) because they thought that they were talent too good to pass on--but when the skins do the same thing and address their red zone problems with Thomas, Davis and Kelly, its a terrible move to you. <<<<

Take a chill pill why don't you. you're like a disgruntled meat packer with this. You are confusing broad strategies as the gospel. The Giants generally have built through the draft as have most of the really good teams we see in the NFL. I'm not the only one stating this. You can listen to people who get paid for their football opinions stating that every day on NFL Radio. Your overuse of the word " dogma" is becoming disturbing to say the least. I suggest you look that word up before you use it again.



I expect you to be fully behind trading away whatever necessary for Jason Taylor then.

If it were a mid round pick then yes. If it is a first or 2nd then no. Maybe a third.

[skinfan43]

Quick aside: IMO, what lorimike doesn't realize is that if you come after akh, better be ready to stay at the keyboard for awhile or just surrender, because he'll keep comin like Africanized Killer Bees...or a dude plastered on MM;)

Erasmus = Practically ZERO Risk and ALL possibility.
If he plays to his potential and stays healthy, it's the steal of the offseason for any club IMO...would be sweet to have 6+ sacks and solid pressure from our OTHER defensive end position, eh?

[lorimike]

*yawn*>>>>
Ank this does not constitute a respone



I would hope you learn something from what you say here, but I doubt it.
Ank don't take this the wrong way but I post here for enjoyement not to have you preach on what I should or should not learn.


Criticizing isn't bullying. And I'm not the only person who's criticizing you here.

When you come at me with this zealousness it borders on the disturbing



And don't you try to do the same with your condescending postings on draft theories? You're also obsessed with the fact that I'm listed as a writer here, and I don't know why(unless you're bitter or something).

I certainly do not intend for my posts to be condescending. I do think you have let this HR staff writer go to your head otherwise why keep coming after me?



Responding to someone so that they know what part you're responding to isn't being miserable. Constantly bitching and moaning about a team's moves, no matter what, is a sign of being a miserable person-which you seem to be.

I think you are very confused between facts and opinions.



I can't find any posts where you mention Devin Thomas except for you mentioning what he did against PSU. You did menton the trade down once:
"
They are going to tell us value. I mean as far as the Fred Davis pick- it's not like he's a nobody- he did win the Mackey award but with Cooley on the roster I would have selected Calais Campbell. The selection of Kelly is perplexing but once again with the size and college production they view him as good value- I just wonder if we will try to trade Santana or Randel El at this point."

Thats it.

Now this is repectfull debate and opinion. I have no problem with this statement.


:rolleyes:



And ironically enough, you do it a lot also. I haven't taken anything you've said out of context-cut up or not.

How am I supposed to respond when you cut up a paragrah sentence by sentence and leave out what you want

[lorimike]

Quick aside: IMO, what lorimike doesn't realize is that if you come after akh, better be ready to stay at the keyboard for awhile or just surrender, because he'll keep comin like Africanized Killer Bees...or a dude plastered on MM;)

Erasmus = Practically ZERO Risk and ALL possibility.
If he plays to his potential and stays healthy, it's the steal of the offseason for any club IMO...would be sweet to have 6+ sacks and solid pressure from our OTHER defensive end position, eh?<<<<<

He's coming at me like a spider monkey all jacked up on Moutain Dew

[akhhorus]

Take a chill pill why don't you. you're like a disgruntled meat packer with this. You are confusing broad strategies as the gospel. The Giants generally have built through the draft as have most of the really good teams we see in the NFL. I'm not the only one stating this. You can listen to people who get paid for their football opinions stating that every day on NFL Radio. Your overuse of the word " dogma" is becoming disturbing to say the least. I suggest you look that word up before you use it again.

No, you hold up your philosophy as the be-all, end-all and refuse to consider any violations of said philosophy. Thats dogmatic behavior.

Thanks for not responding to what I said btw. You couldn't respond when I(and others) brought up this contradiction regarding the Eli trade, I'm not surprised you still can't reconcile two opposing concepts. The Giants, btw, also draft away from needs as much as possible, and yet when the skins do it, its wrong. Like I said, you're not a fan.

If it were a mid round pick then yes. If it is a first or 2nd then no. Maybe a third.

OMG, what about your precious draft picks then Smeagol? Could you survive the skins parting with one higher than a 7th?

Ank this does not constitute a respone

You didn't say anything intelligent that I was responding to in the first place.

Ank don't take this the wrong way but I post here for enjoyement not to have you preach on what I should or should not learn.

Thanks for not responding to what I wrote.

When you come at me with this zealousness it borders on the disturbing

See the response above.

I certainly do not intend for my posts to be condescending. I do think you have let this HR staff writer go to your head otherwise why keep coming after me?

huh? What does my title have to do with anything? And why do you think it matters at all?

And yes, you come off as condescending.

I think you are very confused between facts and opinions.

You're right, its a fact and not just my opinion that you're a misanthropic person who gets his jollies dumping on a team that he claims he likes no matter what they do. I criticize the skins when the make a bad move, but I also point out what I like.

Now this is repectfull debate and opinion. I have no problem with this statement.

Thats what you said, I asked you to show where you said you like the trade down and pick of Devin Thomas because I couldn't find it and this is your "brilliant" response? Turn your brain on please.

How am I supposed to respond when you cut up a paragrah sentence by sentence and leave out what you want

I haven't cut out anything you've said here.

[RedskinsDave]

Back on topic fellas......

[colkurtz]

I'll be interested to see what E. James does in the OTA's. Not sure if he actually passed the physical and the're certainly not going to jeopardize his knees too early.


I still think we'll be lucky to see much of him until later in the regular season

[Skins-fo-life]

I would be suprised if E James makes it onto the field before training camp.

[Cutter]

I'm tired of the two+ pages of pissing match followed by a pissing match about the pissing match...

Any James or reconstruction supporters want to make any predictions on his contributions to the Redskins this season? What do you guys honestly expect him to do?

[chrisbcbu]

Here is the latest news on E. James. Maybe it wont get swallowed by all this stuff being said in here.

this is from JLC blog.
New DE Erasmus James is about 90 percent, Zorn said, he they will bring him along slowly with hopes of him being ready to start the season (J Reid will be writing about James in the paper tomorrow).