RB Rankings - Portis #9

[chrisbcbu]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3422768&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d3422768%26lpos%3d spotlight%26lid%3dtab1pos1

9. Clinton Portis, Washington Redskins
Watch: Portis highlights
Superpower -- Portis is simply impressive in terms of production. He is near the top of the league every year and is a tough player who will fight through bumps and bruises. He attacks the line of scrimmage and can make the first defender miss in the hole. He does not have elite size but knows how to finish his runs.
Kryptonite -- He puts the ball on the ground too often and at times does so in critical situations. He can be aloof when he needs to take care of the ball, dropping easy passes to kill drives and missing blocks in pass protection. He has great physical tools but at times seems to check out mentally.

Where did this come from? In the years Portis has been here he has missed only a couple of blocks. And he is the BEST blocking RB. Last year he did seem to fumble but the years before he wasnt known as a fumbler.

I cant believe Portis is behind a part time player in Barber. sigh

EDIT: I know it says insider but it comes up for me and i am not an insider.

[hail2skins]

Normally, we wouldn't allow this to be posted since it's paid content. But since it's a free preview, I'll let it stay up.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3422768&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d3422768%26lpos%3d spotlight%26lid%3dtab1pos1



Where did this come from? In the years Portis has been here he has missed only a couple of blocks. And he is the BEST blocking RB. Last year he did seem to fumble but the years before he wasnt known as a fumbler.

I cant believe Portis is behind a part time player in Barber. sigh

EDIT: I know it says insider but it comes up for me and i am not an insider.

The Hashmarks writers had a commentary going on this. Mosley who covered the Cowboys before joining ESPN and hasn't stopped since had a real problem with Portis being so high. The other guy, Sando, mocked the heck out of him for it, which continues into the comments section.

The truth is RB's today get so beat up because defenders are so much bigger, faster, stronger than every before that there are holes in everyone's game.

[smoak]

I have no issue with the ranking, but yeah the commentary is weak.

[redskin_rich]

I have seen Portis miss some blocks in pass protection, actually, quite a few times last year. The problem is he always goes for the big hit and totally sells out, when he misses there is no chance to recover, he has effectively taken himself out of the play.
Still, I love his enthusiasm, just wish he played with a little more control.

[Keino]

I have a problem with the ranking because Marion Barber III, a RB who has never eclipsed 1000 yards or carried the full load is ranked higher. It's BS just as MBIII making the probowl last year was BS.

[Keino]

The Hashmarks writers had a commentary going on this. Mosley who covered the Cowboys before joining ESPN and hasn't stopped since had a real problem with Portis being so high. The other guy, Sando, mocked the heck out of him for it, which continues into the comments section.

The truth is RB's today get so beat up because defenders are so much bigger, faster, stronger than every before that there are holes in everyone's game.

You got a link?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it. Here (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks/0-7-430/Debating-the-top-running-backs.html?bId=0&archiveId=7&username=hashmarks&entryId=430&sort=oldest)

[Hrabanmaur]

I have a problem with the ranking because Marion Barber III, a RB who has never eclipsed 1000 yards or carried the full load is ranked higher. It's BS just as MBIII making the probowl last year was BS.

The Hashmarks writers had a commentary going on this. Mosley who covered the Cowboys before joining ESPN and hasn't stopped since had a real problem with Portis being so high. The other guy, Sando, mocked the heck out of him for it, which continues into the comments section.

This is why Hashmarks is a total farce. Mosley is supposed to cover the NFC East in the blog, but only ever talks about the Cowboys. I've paid less and less attention to it because the coverage is so skewed.

As for Portis being ranked 9th, I think that's a bit low. Unfortunately, I have to concede that Mosley makes a good point in asking what criteria they used to create this list. It's really not at all clear, but it seems heavily weighted towards potential. Jackson, Peterson, and Gore all had only ONE standout season. Jackson has played 4 seasons, and only broken 1100 yards once. Gore has played 3 seasons, and only broken 1200 yards once. These guys also have had questions about health. Peterson, to me, looks like the real deal, but one season isn't exactly a body of work. As for Addai, I can't help but be skeptical of any back playing in Indy's system -- Rhodes and James struggled immediately after leaving the team. I'd push Portis above all of these guys for the moment b/c of his consistency in spite of the different offenses he's been asked to play (and on different teams).

[Cutter]

#9 on their list... but #1 in our hearts. I can see how they made the case for the other guys, but I'd rather have Portis than any of those fools. The next guy I'd want is Jackson. That boy is a beast. Remember the last time we played them and he shreaded us in every way? He's not the blocker Portis is though.

[Cutter]

Peterson would be my 3... good points on him and Jackson.

[akhhorus]

LJ, MB3, ManBearPig and Peterson have no business being ahead of Portis.

[PyroGenic]

I have no issue with the ranking, but yeah the commentary is weak.

Yeah, seriously. Where's the insight? Why would anybody want to be "inside" (actually, ew) this. Saying Portis can't block and having two guys on your list that aren't even full-time starters and another that hasn't started a game, ever, makes little to no sense. Not to mention that there are three guys on there that played for about 10% of the season. Good job there, ESPN.

[Keino]

LJ, MB3, ManBearPig and Peterson have no business being ahead of Portis.

LOL...Who?

[PyroGenic]

This is why Hashmarks is a total farce. Mosley is supposed to cover the NFC East in the blog, but only ever talks about the Cowboys. I've paid less and less attention to it because the coverage is so skewed.

As for Portis being ranked 9th, I think that's a bit low. Unfortunately, I have to concede that Mosley makes a good point in asking what criteria they used to create this list. It's really not at all clear, but it seems heavily weighted towards potential. Jackson, Peterson, and Gore all had only ONE standout season. Jackson has played 4 seasons, and only broken 1100 yards once. Gore has played 3 seasons, and only broken 1200 yards once. These guys also have had questions about health. Peterson, to me, looks like the real deal, but one season isn't exactly a body of work. As for Addai, I can't help but be skeptical of any back playing in Indy's system -- Rhodes and James struggled immediately after leaving the team. I'd push Portis above all of these guys for the moment b/c of his consistency in spite of the different offenses he's been asked to play (and on different teams).

That's not exactly fair. Both the Cardinals and the Raiders' olines were in shambles compared to what indy's line is like. Everybody knows that without a decent line there isn't one guy that can make anything happen all by himself... well, except for LT when he first started, but his position on that list is justified.

[bergiemoore]

LJ, MB3, ManBearPig and Peterson have no business being ahead of Portis.

Agreed. This list is laughable as the criteria for the ranking seems to change with every player listed.

[Hrabanmaur]

That's not exactly fair. Both the Cardinals and the Raiders' olines were in shambles compared to what indy's line is like. Everybody knows that without a decent line there isn't one guy that can make anything happen all by himself... well, except for LT when he first started, but his position on that list is justified.

I think that's very fair.

Last season the Raiders had a pretty good rushing game:

Justin Fargas rushed for 179 yds against Miami, 104 against Houston, 139 KC, 146 against Denver (2nd game).

Lamont Jordan rushed for 159 against Denver (1st game) and 121 against Cleveland.

These guys did this with a very subpar passing game.

As for the Cardinals, I think they had a much improved O-line last season, but James just didn't look dynamic. He doesn't have great speed or power anymore, and he seemd to fold on first contact. He managed to surpass 1200 yards, but they gave him 324 carries in the worst division in the NFL.

[akhhorus]

LOL...Who?

Gore. I'm super serial about it.

[brettsky991]

I have no problem ranking LT,AP,Steven jackson,Brian Westbrook and LJ ahead of CP. But I don't agree with Joseph Addai,Frank Gore ! or Marion Barber.

AP might be high after only one year, but he certainly showed some flashes.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I agree Portis deserves a little more respect. Hopefully this serves as bulletin board material.

[smoak]

I have a problem with the ranking because Marion Barber III, a RB who has never eclipsed 1000 yards or carried the full load is ranked higher. It's BS just as MBIII making the probowl last year was BS.

Fair. I didn't look at the list but rather said "yep, Clinton feels like a top 10 and not top 5 RB"....

MB3 gets his shot this year I suppose... But its telling they went RB in round 1.

[PyroGenic]

I think that's very fair.

Last season the Raiders had a pretty good rushing game:

Justin Fargas rushed for 179 yds against Miami, 104 against Houston, 139 KC, 146 against Denver (2nd game).

Lamont Jordan rushed for 159 against Denver (1st game) and 121 against Cleveland.

These guys did this with a very subpar passing game.

As for the Cardinals, I think they had a much improved O-line last season, but James just didn't look dynamic. He doesn't have great speed or power anymore, and he seemd to fold on first contact. He managed to surpass 1200 yards, but they gave him 324 carries in the worst division in the NFL.

All of those teams, except for Houston, were in the bottom third of the league in rush Defense for a reason and Houston isn't particularly impressive at #19.

link (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1)

I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing here. You can't seriously tell me that you thought the Cardinals line was in anyway better than the Colts line and they only slightly improved when they acquired a running game and line focused coaching staff. Even with the changes in philosophy, the Cardinals were #29 in the league in rushing yards.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I have no problem ranking LT,AP,Steven jackson,Brian Westbrook and LJ ahead of CP. But I don't agree with Joseph Addai,Frank Gore ! or Marion Barber.

AP might be high after only one year, but he certainly showed some flashes.
I agree with this-although I have a problem putting LJ above CP now. Look at what he did when KC's line went down the drain. We've seen CP produce SOMETHING with 75% of his OL out. Can't say the same for LJ......

And the pass protection thing......? Sure, he may have missed some block like RR said, but he is the best pass protecting back in the league IMO and is more consistent then he is inconsistent. The Marion Barber thing really bugs me though......:rolleyes:

[bergiemoore]

I have no problem ranking LT,AP,Steven jackson,Brian Westbrook and LJ ahead of CP. But I don't agree with Joseph Addai,Frank Gore ! or Marion Barber.

AP might be high after only one year, but he certainly showed some flashes.

Chester Taylor looked just as good as AP running behind that line. When first contact is made 4 yards beyond the LOS, any halfway decent back can have success. AP may be the next coming of LT, but we won't know that until he's put in a few years and proves that he's a durable every-down running back.

IMHO, the criteria for a ranking of this nature should take into consideration durability, consistency throughout the back's tenure, versatility, surrounding circumstances, and level of competition.

Lynch and AP haven't even played a full season.

Addai plays in a system where he'll never be the focus.

MBIII is a situational back that doesn't have the stamina to carry the ball for 4 quarters. He doesn't belong in this conversation.

Westbrook is consistently one of the most potent offensive weapons on his team, even if the number of carries has been lower than what any other team would give to it's premier back. He plays against the toughest run defenses in the league, and has torched them on several occasions.

LJ, Jackson, and Gore are solid, but still have some question marks. I don't really have a problem with them being rated ahead of CP.

[NamVet4]

Addai plays in a system where he'll never be the focus.



Agreed! This was the argument I had with a co worker!

As for MBIII - a sense of cynicism and evil doing is creeping about in this article ;)

[CP26CP26CP26]

The entire list is just laughable. Ray Rice and Kenny Watson are ranked ahead of Ladell Betts. I stopped taking this thing seriously when they decided to have Portis as the first back they commented on poor blocking. I mean come on.

[chrisbcbu]

The entire list is just laughable. Ray Rice and Kenny Watson are ranked ahead of Ladell Betts. I stopped taking this thing seriously when they decided to have Portis as the first back they commented on poor blocking. I mean come on.

I cant really tell, but are you a CP fan?

/end sarcasm

[Keino]

The entire list is just laughable. Ray Rice and Kenny Watson are ranked ahead of Ladell Betts. I stopped taking this thing seriously when they decided to have Portis as the first back they commented on poor blocking. I mean come on.

Kenny Watson was more productive (and got more time as a result) than Betts when in the same offense as Teammates. I'd take Watson over Betts, personally.

[Hrabanmaur]

All of those teams, except for Houston, were in the bottom third of the league in rush Defense for a reason and Houston isn't particularly impressive at #19.

link

I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing here. You can't seriously tell me that you thought the Cardinals line was in anyway better than the Colts line and they only slightly improved when they acquired a running game and line focused coaching staff. Even with the changes in philosophy, the Cardinals were #29 in the league in rushing yards.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. My original statement was that I'm skeptical of any back coming out of Indy, which you said wasn't fair. I never once said the Cardinals line was better than the Colts. That's ludicrous. Indy has an amazing line, an amazing QB, and amazing receivers. They're running backs are good when they play in Indy, but let me reiterate -- I'm skeptical of any back coming out of that system. Can you point to one who's left and had nearly the same success? Are you saying Joseph Addai deserves to be so high on this list?

[brettsky991]

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. My original statement was that I'm skeptical of any back coming out of Indy, which you said wasn't fair. I never once said the Cardinals line was better than the Colts. That's ludicrous. Indy has an amazing line, an amazing QB, and amazing receivers. They're running backs are good when they play in Indy, but let me reiterate -- I'm skeptical of any back coming out of that system. Can you point to one who's left and had nearly the same success? Are you saying Joseph Addai deserves to be so high on this list?

Marshall Faulk :)

[Hrabanmaur]

Marshall Faulk

Faulk played one season in Indy with Manning when Peyton was a rookie. I don't think that applies, but if you'd like I'll concede on a point of technicality for your clever historical research.

[brettsky991]

Faulk played one season in Indy with Manning when Peyton was a rookie. I don't think that applies, but if you'd like I'll concede on a point of technicality for your clever historical research.

I know, I was just being a SA. Thats why I put the :)

[akhhorus]

Marshall Faulk :)

Faulk did go to St Louis and play with a great QB(albeit for a short time), 2 HOF WRs and a very good Oline.

[PyroGenic]

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. My original statement was that I'm skeptical of any back coming out of Indy, which you said wasn't fair. I never once said the Cardinals line was better than the Colts. That's ludicrous. Indy has an amazing line, an amazing QB, and amazing receivers. They're running backs are good when they play in Indy, but let me reiterate -- I'm skeptical of any back coming out of that system. Can you point to one who's left and had nearly the same success? Are you saying Joseph Addai deserves to be so high on this list?

With the team he's on, yeah, of course. Addai is probably going to consistently produce on a high level and you can't argue with stats. You can't help but include the supporting cast in individual player rankings. Even CP had better production while he was over in Denver because of his supporting cast. The o-line ran a system that is better suited to his abilities and they're probably just more talented than what's in Washington atm. Truth be told, I'm pretty sure that more than half of the backs in this league would produce well behind the Colts' o-line.

It's hard to separate individual running back ability from the quality of the o-line they're running behind so they just go hand in hand. And if a running back fails in another city, it'll be because either a) his previous team's "system" aka fat guys up front, were better suited to his abilities (I guess Rhodes could be an example here, or whoever went to the Lions from Denver) or b) he's just straight up old and probably washed up by the time he hits FA, like Shaun Alexander. That's the way it is and the way it's going to be forever and ever.

[bergiemoore]

With the team he's on, yeah, of course. Addai is probably going to consistently produce on a high level and you can't argue with stats. You can't help but include the supporting cast in individual player rankings. Even CP had better production while he was over in Denver because of his supporting cast. The o-line ran a system that is better suited to his abilities and they're probably just more talented than what's in Washington atm. Truth be told, I'm pretty sure that more than half of the backs in this league would produce well behind the Colts' o-line.

It's hard to separate individual running back ability from the quality of the o-line they're running behind so they just go hand in hand. And if a running back fails in another city, it'll be because either a) his previous team's "system" aka fat guys up front, were better suited to his abilities (I guess Rhodes could be an example here, or whoever went to the Lions from Denver) or b) he's just straight up old and probably washed up by the time he hits FA, like Shaun Alexander. That's the way it is and the way it's going to be forever and ever.

If you really want to argue stats to support Addai, then he's going to need to start accumulating some decent ones. In 2 seasons, he's run for 2153 yards with an average of 4.4 per carry. That's not exactly spectacular, and doesn't measure up to many of the other backs on this list. He's also no where near the receiving threat that a Westbrook is. In this regard, he's closer to Portis.

It should be noted that Addai's yards per carry dropped six-tenths of a yard as he became the featured back in this system. This guy is nothing spectacular, and doesn't deserve to be in the top 10, and especially not ahead of Portis.

[Sean36]

If you really want to argue stats to support Addai, then he's going to need to start accumulating some decent ones. In 2 seasons, he's run for 2153 yards with an average of 4.4 per carry. That's not exactly spectacular, and doesn't measure up to many of the other backs on this list. He's also no where near the receiving threat that a Westbrook is. In this regard, he's closer to Portis.

It should be noted that Addai's yards per carry dropped six-tenths of a yard as he became the featured back in this system. This guy is nothing spectacular, and doesn't deserve to be in the top 10, and especially not ahead of Portis.

Clinton Portis will be top 5 this year, trust me he's talking about 2,000 on redskins.com.....I hope he has more yards than LT so I can shut all the Tolminson riders up.

[bergiemoore]

Clinton Portis will be top 5 this year, trust me he's talking about 2,000 on redskins.com.....I hope he has more yards than LT so I can shut all the Tolminson riders up.

From your lips to Bob's ears.

LT is the real deal, no if, and's or but's about it. He really does deserve all the kudos he gets. He's earned it.

Still, if CP were able to rack up 2k yards, I'd be thrilled. I would be more than pleased if he had more than 2k all-purpose yards.

[Keino]

As I think about the list, it looks more to me like a Fantasy Football ranking list. In which case I would make the case that Addai should be ranked higher than Portis. However, in real football terms....Absolutely, positively not.

The MBIII love especially curdles my milk.

[PyroGenic]

If you really want to argue stats to support Addai, then he's going to need to start accumulating some decent ones. In 2 seasons, he's run for 2153 yards with an average of 4.4 per carry. That's not exactly spectacular, and doesn't measure up to many of the other backs on this list. He's also no where near the receiving threat that a Westbrook is. In this regard, he's closer to Portis.

It should be noted that Addai's yards per carry dropped six-tenths of a yard as he became the featured back in this system. This guy is nothing spectacular, and doesn't deserve to be in the top 10, and especially not ahead of Portis.

Ugh, I hate arguing against Portis cause he's our guy but here it goes.

Addai may have dropped from last year in the YPC department, but its still higher compared to what CP has achieved in each of those 2 seasons respectively. In fact, CP's YPC have steadily decreased since 2005 and have only been over 4.0 in 2 out of the 4 seasons that CP has played here. Adding more fuel to the fire is the fact that CP hasn't even sniffed his impressive 5.5 YPC that he had the season before he was traded here. Portis dropped from a 5.5 to a 3.8 YPC RB in his first season here...

I understand that CP is the focal point for the redskins offense while Addai is far from that (an easily attainable fact by the difference in carries), but I mean, they're stats, and they show that Addai does in fact deserve to be ahead of Portis because he's just flat-out put up better numbers for his team.

[PyroGenic]

Clinton Portis will be top 5 this year, trust me he's talking about 2,000 on redskins.com.....I hope he has more yards than LT so I can shut all the Tolminson riders up.

I don't like how this gloating immediately reminds me of Philip Daniels...

[skin4ever]

Faulk did go to St Louis and play with a great QB(albeit for a short time), 2 HOF WRs and a very good Oline.

cant discount him for that, hes a stud and would have been great anywhere.

[skin4ever]

Ugh, I hate arguing against Portis cause he's our guy but here it goes.

Addai may have dropped from last year in the YPC department, but its still higher compared to what CP has achieved in each of those 2 seasons respectively. In fact, CP's YPC have steadily decreased since 2005 and have only been over 4.0 in 2 out of the 4 seasons that CP has played here. Adding more fuel to the fire is the fact that CP hasn't even sniffed his impressive 5.5 YPC that he had the season before he was traded here. Portis dropped from a 5.5 to a 3.8 YPC RB in his first season here...

I understand that CP is the focal point for the redskins offense while Addai is far from that (an easily attainable fact by the difference in carries), but I mean, they're stats, and they show that Addai does in fact deserve to be ahead of Portis because he's just flat-out put up better numbers for his team.

So based on stats, colt brennan coming out of college should have been the first QB drafted and Ryan picked later.

[PyroGenic]

So based on stats, colt brennan coming out of college should have been the first QB drafted and Ryan picked later.

The draft does more than compare stats achieved in school so that comparison doesn't exactly work.

Look, if I had the choice between the two to be on my team, I'd choose Portis. There's no questioning that. I'm saying that these rankings involve more than just the individual runner; which is fair. The way that most people compare NFL players is through statistics, and I'm saying that Addai has achieved more than Portis has over the past 2 years, therefore ranking him higher on the list than Portis. I don't understand why this is bad. Portis is still a good player, he just hasn't put out as impressive numbers.

[InsomniaKiller]

I look at Addai and Portis as very similar backs. They both have tremendous talent and are typically considered "shiftier" runners but manage to surprise more than a few people who think they are going to shy away from contact.

That being said, trying to be as objective as possible about this, I don't think I could consider ranking Portis anywhere below 8th among active running backs, and wouldn't bat an eyelash to have him ranked #5 or so.

Marion Barber, I don't see how you can rate him any higher than #9.

[Cutter]

Portis is #1. If you had to win one game today, who's your back? Portis is the best overall back since Sweetness.

[Biggie]

Is this Marion Barber the same one that got negative rushing yardage against us?

[Keino]

Portis is #1. If you had to win one game today, who's your back? Portis is the best overall back since Sweetness.

I love me some Clinton Portis, but I cannot agree with this.

[PyroGenic]

Is this Marion Barber the same one that got negative rushing yardage against us?


Yeah. It would've been cool if "redskins" were listed as kryptonite


Portis is #1. If you had to win one game today, who's your back? Portis is the best overall back since Sweetness.


What? No way. LT for me.

[Cutter]

LT has put up some good numbers, but he's not the blocker CP is. Given the same opportunities, CP would have the same silly numbers... and he's a better blocker.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Gore. I'm super serial about it.
Haha! South Park rocks!

My biggest problem isn't with the ranking, but to say anything less than "CP is great in pass protection" is ridiculous.

[bergiemoore]

Ugh, I hate arguing against Portis cause he's our guy but here it goes.

Addai may have dropped from last year in the YPC department, but its still higher compared to what CP has achieved in each of those 2 seasons respectively. In fact, CP's YPC have steadily decreased since 2005 and have only been over 4.0 in 2 out of the 4 seasons that CP has played here. Adding more fuel to the fire is the fact that CP hasn't even sniffed his impressive 5.5 YPC that he had the season before he was traded here. Portis dropped from a 5.5 to a 3.8 YPC RB in his first season here...

I understand that CP is the focal point for the redskins offense while Addai is far from that (an easily attainable fact by the difference in carries), but I mean, they're stats, and they show that Addai does in fact deserve to be ahead of Portis because he's just flat-out put up better numbers for his team.

To what stats, specifically, are you referring? Only the last two years?
Portis only played in 8 games in 2006, a year where Ladell "I fall down after 4 yards" Betts ran for more than 1000 yards.

Addai has never had more than 1100 in a season, while Portis has had less than 1100 yards in only one season, where he missed 8 games.

My argument against ranking Addai higher than Portis has to do with Addai's overall body of work, which is a respectable 4.4 YPC, a mediocre 1076 yards per season, 9.5 TDs per season, and a decent 344.5 receiving yards per season playing on a team with Peyton "GOD of all QBs" Manning, 2 future HoF receivers, and an excellent OLine.

Meanwhile, Portis body of work features a respectable 4.5 YPC, 1285 yards per season (including 06), 10.5 TDs per season, and a middling 281 receiving yards per season playing the last 4 years on a team that was at times allergic to the forward pass and plugged holes in its OLine with 40 year olds and undrafted kids off the street.

YPC is an important stat only when coupled with a decent # of carries, otherwise it's meaningless. It's really no wonder that Portis' YPC dropped to 3.9 last year, given the fact that he ran behind only half an OLine. In 2006 he played injured. He may return to the jaw dropping 5.5 average under the new system, but even he only makes it to 4.5, that's still plenty respectable.

Portis is a far more valuable back than Addai, right now. He is an every-down back that excels the more he carries the ball, and can carry a team on his shoulders.

Addai is a change of pace to Indy's passing that will easily be replaced when his contract is up for renewal.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Portis is #1. If you had to win one game today, who's your back? Portis is the best overall back since Sweetness.
Oh God... That's why some other fans call us delusional

[culpeper]

the only player i have a problem with is Lynch. how could you rate him on this list? the rest of it is too subjective to care...

F.Taylor should be higher, MBIII should be lower, and CP should be a couple notches up. other than that, you can make a case for everyone to be where they are.

[Red Bear]

CP should definately be ranked better than 9. what he does for this team is truely overlooked by the media. theyre too busy still worrying about his characters of the past to pay attention to what he has really done for this team.

[PyroGenic]

To what stats, specifically, are you referring? Only the last two years?

Yeah. Am I supposed to directly compare statistics while Addai wasn't even in the league? How is past performance relevant in this regard besides in the fan loyalty department? I'm pretty sure that these lists pertain to who's good NOW. Otherwise any new players would have no right to be on any of these lists.

Portis only played in 8 games in 2006, a year where Ladell "I fall down after 4 yards" Betts ran for more than 1000 yards.

Does that make it unfair to compare their YPC before Portis went out for the season? I don't see how comparing the two while they were both relatively healthy is unfair. It's an average, not a total. You can pretty much see how a starter is going to pan out by mid-season barring some catastrophic event or if you're the Lions.

Addai has never had more than 1100 in a season, while Portis has had less than 1100 yards in only one season, where he missed 8 games.

So you bring up yards per carry and then use total rush yards to try and defend Portis? Just bringing up an average completely destroys your side of the argument because Addai's YPC was higher than Portis' in the last 2 seasons. I don't know if its that hard to rack up over 1,000+ rushing yards with an average of 340 rushing attempts a year (which happens to be what Portis does in his healthy seasons).

YPC is the universal stat to look at to see how well a player is doing.

My argument against ranking Addai higher than Portis has to do with Addai's overall body of work, which is a respectable 4.4 YPC, a mediocre 1076 yards per season, 9.5 TDs per season, and a decent 344.5 receiving yards per season playing on a team with Peyton "GOD of all QBs" Manning, 2 future HoF receivers, and an excellent OLine.

Those stats are better than what Portis came up with during the time they were both in the league.

Okay, being on a certain team factors into how well a player is going to do, obviously. Portis may do a billion times better than Addai if he were playing on the Colts team, but that's not the reality of the situation. Campbell isn't Peyton, our O-line isn't as good as the Colts' is and our receiving corps will probably never be as good as what the Colts have. Using the "what if" scenarios that these arguments naturally bring up just can't count; it's using hypothetical situations where what really matters is what's really happening. The Redskins don't have what the Colts have, too bad. That's why Addai is going to be ranked higher than Portis. Deal with it.

Meanwhile, Portis body of work features a respectable 4.5 YPC, 1285 yards per season (including 06), 10.5 TDs per season, and a middling 281 receiving yards per season playing the last 4 years on a team that was at times allergic to the forward pass and plugged holes in its OLine with 40 year olds and undrafted kids off the street.


Portis' average is inflated by his years in Denver. Here's what it looks like with his time with us:

4.0 YPC, 1154 Yards a Season (including '06), and 8.5 TDs per season. Kind of a noticeable difference, right? I mean, it's still good, but his career stats are obviously inflated because he was in Denver.

YPC is an important stat only when coupled with a decent # of carries, otherwise it's meaningless. It's really no wonder that Portis' YPC dropped to 3.9 last year, given the fact that he ran behind only half an OLine. In 2006 he played injured. He may return to the jaw dropping 5.5 average under the new system, but even he only makes it to 4.5, that's still plenty respectable.

A "decent" amount of carries is a matter of opinion. Addai's 261 carries seems respectable to me.

I think I already addressed the disparities between the two teams.

Portis is a far more valuable back than Addai, right now. He is an every-down back that excels the more he carries the ball, and can carry a team on his shoulders.

I'm not arguing about how valuable each player is to their respective teams, I'm talking about production. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be so dependent on Portis if Peyton frickin' Manning was on the team.

Addai is a change of pace to Indy's passing that will easily be replaced when his contract is up for renewal.

" "

[RedskinRyan]

I certainly don't disagree with LT as #1, or CP in the top ten. But a lot of that list was some bunk.

[csquared]

LT has put up some good numbers, but he's not the blocker CP is. Given the same opportunities, CP would have the same silly numbers... and he's a better blocker.

LOL Uh huh sure man keep drinking the Kool Aid.

[joethefan]

I have a problem with the ranking because Marion Barber III, a RB who has never eclipsed 1000 yards or carried the full load is ranked higher. It's BS just as MBIII making the probowl last year was BS.


I agree...people are buying into the hype about marion...I believe he is a good player, but he has to show it more than 1 season and in a full time capacity....

my other question is, when has MB been a leader?....this is pure crap...IMO Fred Taylor should at least be where MB is but as high as Frank Gore IMO.

[redskin_rich]

I agree with this-although I have a problem putting LJ above CP now. Look at what he did when KC's line went down the drain. We've seen CP produce SOMETHING with 75% of his OL out. Can't say the same for LJ......

And the pass protection thing......? Sure, he may have missed some block like RR said, but he is the best pass protecting back in the league IMO and is more consistent then he is inconsistent. The Marion Barber thing really bugs me though......:rolleyes:
Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that Portis was not good in pass protection. He is a beast that clearly takes pride in it but his aggressive style sometimes leads him to missing and being taken out of the play.
Portis is #1. If you had to win one game today, who's your back? Portis is the best overall back since Sweetness.

LT has put up some good numbers, but he's not the blocker CP is. Given the same opportunities, CP would have the same silly numbers... and he's a better blocker.I think sometimes you just like to say things to start a debate, whether or not you truly believe it. Prove me wrong and tell us why you think this. Start with how you think Portis is the best back right now before making any more comparisons to Sweetness.

[Cutter]

I do spout off a lot just to get people talking. But this time, I'm serious.

Clinton Portis is the best OVERALL back I've seen since Walter Payton. Everyone take a step back from google, espn, wiki - where ever you're getting your numbers and remember: There are lies, damn lies, and Stats. Comparing stats is meaningless when comparing guys from different teams. If you want to use them for two guys at the same position on the same team that's pretty fair. Guys like Akh will try to argue that even that isn't fair (see all our talks on Campbell vs. Collins). To decide who's best we should look at them as if we were having a draft right now today. Scout them, see what they do and HOW THEY DO IT, then decide who'd you most like on your team. I'd take Clinton Portis hands down. Why?
1) He's got enough speed to beat most. If he gets a step on you, I don't see even a fast team catching him. Remember that first carry? Even that TB team built on speed couldn't catch him.
2) He's shifty. Remember what he did in the Eagles game? Crossing fools up to break that short play into big yards? He can make people miss.
3) He runs hard. He will lower his shoulder and lay the wood on you if the situation calls for it. If people are on his back, he keeps pumping those legs for bonus yards. If you don't wrap him up, he's likely to bounce off and keep going.
4) He blocks. This is really a defining part of the CP argument. He really lays people out. He's wiffed, but I think he may have only missed one blocking assignment his entire time here. I'm pretty sure this is why Gibbs decided he wanted Portis so bad.
5) He's plays with heart. You can tell this guy wants it. Dude chased down a fumble and made a Sportscenter tackle... in the PRE-season. He learned from that one, but you can't say he wasn't in it.
6) He's smart. He picks up blocking assignments quickly. He switches playbooks with ease. He no longer tackles people in the pre-season.
7) He can catch. I don't see him dropping balls. This is one of those things where he hasn't had enough time to shine. He's only been a safety valve instead of focus like Westbrook, Addai or LT. I'm sure he'd be silly if they ran that kind of stuff to him.
8) He's consistent. He gets it done with different O-lines, schemes, uniforms, QBs whatever.
9) He's still young. Guys, he's only 26. That's pretty much prime time for a back. He's got every opportunity to continue being silly for another 3 years. After that, he'll still be a serviceable back for a couple years if he so desires.

Some of those things you can argue another does better (or is younger). But there's no way you can say any back does them all as well as Clinton Portis.

[akhhorus]

I do spout of a lot just to get people talking. But this time, I'm serious.

Clinton Portis is the best OVERALL back I've seen since Walter Payton. Everyone take a step back from google, espn, wiki - where ever you're getting your numbers and remember: There are lies, damn lies, and Stats. Comparing stats is meaningless when comparing guys from different teams. If you want to use them for two guys at the same position on the same team that's pretty fair. Guys like Akh will try to argue that even that isn't fair (see all our talks on Campbell vs. Collins). To decide who's best we should look at them as if we were having a draft right now today. Scout them, see what they do and HOW THEY DO IT, then decide who'd you most like on your team. I'd take Clinton Portis hands down. Why?
1) He's got enough speed to beat most. If he gets a step on you, I don't see even a fast team catching him. Remember that first carry? Even that TB team built on speed couldn't catch him.
2) He's shifty. Remember what he did in the Eagles game? Crossing fools up to break that short play into big yards? He can make people miss.
3) He runs hard. He will lower his shoulder and lay the wood on you if the situation calls for it. If people are on his back, he keeps pumping those legs for bonus yards. If you don't wrap him up, he's likely to bounce off and keep going.
4) He blocks. This is really a defining part of the CP argument. He really lays people out. He's wiffed, but I think he may have only missed one blocking assignment his entire time here. I'm pretty sure this is why Gibbs decided he wanted Portis so bad.
5) He's plays with heart. You can tell this guy wants it. Dude chased down a fumble and made a Sportscenter tackle... in the PRE-season. He learned from that one, but you can't say he wasn't in it.
6) He's smart. He picks up blocking assignments quickly. He switches playbooks with ease. He no longer tackles people in the pre-season.
7) He can catch. I don't see him dropping balls. This is one of those things where he hasn't had enough time to shine. He's only been a safety valve instead of focus like Westbrook, Addai or LT. I'm sure he'd be silly if they ran that kind of stuff to him.
8) He's consistent. He gets it done with different O-lines, schemes, uniforms, QBs whatever.
9) He's still young. Guys, he's only 26. That's pretty much prime time for a back. He's got every opportunity to continue being silly for another 3 years. After that, he'll still be a serviceable back for a couple years if he so desires.

Some of those things you can argue another does better (or is younger). But there's no way you can say any back does them all as well as Clinton Portis.

I'm a big fan of Clinton Portis. He's a great player and the best Redskins RB ever probably. However, he can't hold Payton's(or LDT's) jock yet.

[csquared]

I'm a big fan of Clinton Portis. He's a great player and the best Redskins RB ever probably. However, he can't hold Payton's(or LDT's) jock yet.

Nor will he ever.

[akhhorus]

Nor will he ever.

Who knows, both of them could be caught running some sort of gay dog fighting fundraisers for Al Queda or something and it turns out that they were using the skim off of the profits for steroids?

[csquared]

Who knows, both of them could be caught running some sort of gay dog fighting fundraisers for Al Queda or something and it turns out that they were using the skim off of the profits for steroids?

Yea i forgot about that possibility. My bad LMAO!

[akhhorus]

Yea i forgot about that possibility. My bad LMAO!

"Give us our roids, or Walter will strangle another kitten!"

[hogskins]

I do spout off a lot just to get people talking. But this time, I'm serious.

Clinton Portis is the best OVERALL back I've seen since Walter Payton. etc. ...
.
.
.

Some of those things you can argue another does better (or is younger). But there's no way you can say any back does them all as well as Clinton Portis.

I agree that CP is an excellent back, and we're lucky to have him. But this level of worship is a little overboard...

He has been limited by a mostly constipated/injury-prone Redskins offense since he arrived from Denver. I suspect that your bloated assessment of his homerun potential is somewhat due to this lack of support. But that has nothing to do with the level of pre-season conditioning that has taken away from his his early season numbers. He's a strong blocker, and I feel that criticism is largely unwarranted--I haven't seen him whiff that often. However, he fights off plenty of passes, and compares poorly with a lot of backs near the top of the list in that department.

he's easily a top-10 back, but I'm not convinced that he's top-5. I would agree with others that Addai is largely a product of his circumstances, and certainly doesn't belong ahead of CP. Sweetness and LT are in a different league than both of them, though.

[bergiemoore]

Yeah. Am I supposed to directly compare statistics while Addai wasn't even in the league? How is past performance relevant in this regard besides in the fan loyalty department? I'm pretty sure that these lists pertain to who's good NOW. Otherwise any new players would have no right to be on any of these lists.


According to the article in question:


We studied the player's body of work as well as looked ahead and projected future production. We took into account the kind of offense they play in, the scheme and supporting cast around them. We compared players who were every-down backs against those who didn't play as much. We factored in durability and versatility. We looked at everything we could think of and when all else failed, we just asked who would we want on our team right now.


Past performance is relevant in that it is the best indicator for future performance. Taking the player's average per season allows you to get a decent comparison that doesn't penalize the newer player. That's what I had done in my post.



Does that make it unfair to compare their YPC before Portis went out for the season? I don't see how comparing the two while they were both relatively healthy is unfair. It's an average, not a total. You can pretty much see how a starter is going to pan out by mid-season barring some catastrophic event or if you're the Lions.


I never said it was unfair, and I included the 2006 season into all of my calculations.

In 2006, however, it should be noted that Addai was not the starter, but the change of pace back to Dominic Rhodes, who had all 16 starts. In the year in which Addai was the premier back, his YPC dropped to 4.1.



So you bring up yards per carry and then use total rush yards to try and defend Portis? Just bringing up an average completely destroys your side of the argument because Addai's YPC was higher than Portis' in the last 2 seasons. I don't know if its that hard to rack up over 1,000+ rushing yards with an average of 340 rushing attempts a year (which happens to be what Portis does in his healthy seasons).


So, if a back carries the ball more in a season that makes him less of a back? LT averages 337 carries per season. Jackson carried the ball 346 times in his 06 campaign. James carried the ball on average 305 times per season in 7 season with Indy while missing a combined 16 games to injury. Alexander carried it well over 300 times during his heyday in Seattle. A premier back is someone that will carry the ball 20 - 25 times per game, which will land them somewhere between 320 - 400 carries for an entire season.

The number of carries a back has indicates more than anything else the importance of the back to that team. The fact that Portis carries the ball 300+ times per season is not a detriment to his ranking but an indication that he can be relied upon to consistently deliver for his team.

In reference to total yards, you measure total yards over the entire season, because that is ultimately what contributes to the offensive ranking of the team. YPC is a nifty stat for fantasy football, but in terms of a team sport, it's only significant when multiplied by the number of carries. Which back is contributing more to his team, the 4.1 YPC with 261 carries (=1072 yards), or 3.9 with 325 carries(=1262 yards)?


YPC is the universal stat to look at to see how well a player is doing.

Those stats are better than what Portis came up with during the time they were both in the league.



Again, the authors of this article claim to be using the backs entire body of work for this comparison, in which case, Portis beats out Addai in every statistical category, including YPC.

And YPC is only one stat you look at when rating a player. It must be put into context, otherwise Artose Pinner was the man in 07.


Okay, being on a certain team factors into how well a player is going to do, obviously. Portis may do a billion times better than Addai if he were playing on the Colts team, but that's not the reality of the situation. Campbell isn't Peyton, our O-line isn't as good as the Colts' is and our receiving corps will probably never be as good as what the Colts have. Using the "what if" scenarios that these arguments naturally bring up just can't count; it's using hypothetical situations where what really matters is what's really happening. The Redskins don't have what the Colts have, too bad. That's why Addai is going to be ranked higher than Portis. Deal with it.



I have not argued any hypothetical at any point in this debate.

The fact is Portis has played on 2 teams and in 3 differing offenses. He clearly performed better in the 1st than in the latter 2, and there are probably hundreds of reason for that over which we can speculate ad nauseum some other time. But all three phases of his career are taken into consideration for this ranking.


Portis' average is inflated by his years in Denver. Here's what it looks like with his time with us:

4.0 YPC, 1154 Yards a Season (including '06), and 8.5 TDs per season. Kind of a noticeable difference, right? I mean, it's still good, but his career stats are obviously inflated because he was in Denver.



Again, you have to include his Denver stats in this assessment, because they are a part of his body of work. Also, it should be noted that the offense in which he will be playing this year is more closely related to Denver's offense than anything that was run in Washington over the last 4 years. If a person wanted to enter into speculation about how a player will perform in a new system, it makes more sense to make judgments based on that player's prior performance in a similar system. You can not discount his time in Denver as it may be more relevant now than in prior years.




A "decent" amount of carries is a matter of opinion. Addai's 261 carries seems respectable to me.



Indeed. 261 is a respectable number of carries. In that year, Addai's YPC was 4.1. In the year that Addai racked up the 4.8 YPC he was not the starter but the change of pace back to Rhodes. He still ran 226 times, which is still decent, but his situation was vastly different.


I think I already addressed the disparities between the two teams.

I'm not arguing about how valuable each player is to their respective teams, I'm talking about production. I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be so dependent on Portis if Peyton frickin' Manning was on the team.

" "

Again, this debate takes into "account the kind of offense they play in, the scheme and supporting cast around them"(i.e. team). It should be noted that James carried the ball on average 305 times per season for an average of 1322 yards per season while playing in the exact same situation that Addai is currently in. Addai has to have a season where he can be trusted to carry the load for his team in order to qualify as a top 10 back, in my opinion. Cherry picking the one decent stat (YPC) of his and holding it up as the sole reason for him to belong in this conversation lacks a certain force of argument.

The bottom line is that Portis can be relied on to carry a team and occasionally dominate games, while Addai has yet to prove that he can be anywhere near as successful as his predecessor playing on a team where he has more opportunity than most other backs in the league.

[Hrabanmaur]

I haven't jumped back into the fray since bergiemoore has been so efficient at sustaining the argument. But, I'd also like to add the Rhodes is back with the Colts this season, and we could very well see more rotation in with Addai. While this will likely raise his YPC, there may well be a concurrent drop in his season total yards.

[guess88]

If you're debating who should be ranked higher, Portis vs Addai, ask yourself this. Burgundy and gold goggles aside, if you were starting a new team, which one would you pick as your feature back?

Portis all the way.

[jaylen]

I think Portis should be ranked ahead ,Gore, Barber, and Addai.

Portis has gone 1500 3 times and averages 4.5 for his career. Those guys haven't done that.

Portis in all reality based on his talentthough should be in the top 3, his lack of commitment to off season training and getting his body right is probably preventing him from being the most elite back.

Portis has speed, explosiveness, changed of direction ability.

All he lacks is dedication and great hands.

[redskin_rich]

I think Portis should be ranked ahead ,Gore, Barber, and Addai.

Portis has gone 1500 3 times and averages 4.5 for his career. Those guys haven't done that.

Portis in all reality based on his talentthough should be in the top 3, his lack of commitment to off season training and getting his body right is probably preventing him from being the most elite back.

Portis has speed, explosiveness, changed of direction ability.

All he lacks is dedication and great hands.I would add that his balance isn't great.

[guess88]

I think Portis should be ranked ahead ,Gore, Barber, and Addai.

Portis has gone 1500 3 times and averages 4.5 for his career. Those guys haven't done that.

Portis in all reality based on his talentthough should be in the top 3, his lack of commitment to off season training and getting his body right is probably preventing him from being the most elite back.

Portis has speed, explosiveness, changed of direction ability.

All he lacks is dedication and great hands.

I don't think he lacks dedication at all. Last year, I'll admit he slacked in offseason conditioning, but I don't think it was ever an issue before hand, and you never have to worry about him giving it his all during game time. As for hands, I think he's a better receiver than we give him credit for, we just barely use him as one. (why, i don't know). I do expect Zorn to change that around this season however.

Portis ahead of Addai, Gore, and Barber for sure, but I don't know if he's top 3. However, that might change with a healthy line, and productive receivers.

[jaylen]

I don't think he lacks dedication at all. Last year, I'll admit he slacked in offseason conditioning, but I don't think it was ever an issue before hand, and you never have to worry about him giving it his all during game time. As for hands, I think he's a better receiver than we give him credit for, we just barely use him as one. (why, i don't know). I do expect Zorn to change that around this season however.

Portis ahead of Addai, Gore, and Barber for sure, but I don't know if he's top 3. However, that might change with a healthy line, and productive receivers.

I don't doubt his competitveness in games he's a stud, but if he was a workout warrior he'd possibly be the best back in the league.

He's catches the ball in his pads too much for me. He scares me in the middle of the field with bobbles.

[guess88]

I don't doubt his competitveness in games he's a stud, but if he was a workout warrior he'd possibly be the best back in the league.

He's catches the ball in his pads too much for me. He scares me in the middle of the field with bobbles.

I don't think he'll ever be considered best in the league until he has a healthy line, and a decent WR core to work with. I still don't know how he gained over 1,000 last year, but no one besides hometowners really cares about production in context of the team and season. Give him some gaps, and deep threats to take pressure off of him, and he'll be listed in the top 5 for sure.. maybe even 3.

[AUviaMD101]

1200+ yards and 10 TDs per season the past 6 seasons...

Portis is a premier RB in the NFL, wether people like it or not. Easily top 10 in the league if not to 5.

[PyroGenic]

Sorry about this delayed response. Arguing on forums takes a lot of time :smash:

Past performance is relevant in that it is the best indicator for future performance. Taking the player's average per season allows you to get a decent comparison that doesn't penalize the newer player. That's what I had done in my post.

There's a point where somebody's past performances can no longer be called upon to project theoretical statistics. I'm sure some of CP's numbers fall into the area where that happens.

Plus just by looking at the order and players included on these guys' list suggests that they didn't even follow any semblance of guidelines. How are you going to have a guy that was already injured in his first season in the league and with no proven track record #2 on the list? How does that follow the track record or durability guideline? It doesn't, so it doesn't matter.

I never said it was unfair, and I included the 2006 season into all of my calculations.

Okay.

In 2006, however, it should be noted that Addai was not the starter, but the change of pace back to Dominic Rhodes, who had all 16 starts. In the year in which Addai was the premier back, his YPC dropped to 4.1.

Not to be finicky or anything, but "change of pace" back sounds something more like a 3rd down back like Reggie Bush is. Rhodes and Addai pretty much split carries, so why does that matter?

So, if a back carries the ball more in a season that makes him less of a back? LT averages 337 carries per season. Jackson carried the ball 346 times in his 06 campaign. James carried the ball on average 305 times per season in 7 season with Indy while missing a combined 16 games to injury. Alexander carried it well over 300 times during his heyday in Seattle. A premier back is someone that will carry the ball 20 - 25 times per game, which will land them somewhere between 320 - 400 carries for an entire season.

I never said that. In fact, I said that the number of carries directly correlates with how important the back is to his team. I agree with you on this, no need to argue about it.

In reference to total yards, you measure total yards over the entire season, because that is ultimately what contributes to the offensive ranking of the team. YPC is a nifty stat for fantasy football, but in terms of a team sport, it's only significant when multiplied by the number of carries. Which back is contributing more to his team, the 4.1 YPC with 261 carries (=1072 yards), or 3.9 with 325 carries(=1262 yards)?

Well I can tell you who's performing better with the opportunities given to him...


Again, the authors of this article claim to be using the backs entire body of work for this comparison, in which case, Portis beats out Addai in every statistical category, including YPC.

He's ahead of Adrian Peterson but you don't see anybody ranking CP ahead of AP...

And YPC is only one stat you look at when rating a player. It must be put into context, otherwise Artose Pinner was the man in 07.

You're using an extreme here (I assume, I'm not gonna look up his stats). Nobody is saying that the number of carries doesn't absolutely matter, but there is a point where the number of carries isn't as significant in regards to this list, unless you're trying to make a point about durability.

I have not argued any hypothetical at any point in this debate.

Yeah I guess I went on a tangent. My bad.

The fact is Portis has played on 2 teams and in 3 differing offenses. He clearly performed better in the 1st than in the latter 2, and there are probably hundreds of reason for that over which we can speculate ad nauseum some other time. But all three phases of his career are taken into consideration for this ranking.

I don't think so because his Denver years don't really prove anything except that CP was probably mis-used in his time here. Who says that it's going to change? It may show his potential, but that doesn't translate into what's going to happen; which is why it shouldn't greatly impact the rankings.



Anyway, I think I covered the rest of what you said. But if I didn't, too bad for me. Time to go play some rockband :D

[dj_stouty]

If you're debating who should be ranked higher, Portis vs Addai, ask yourself this. Burgundy and gold goggles aside, if you were starting a new team, which one would you pick as your feature back?

Portis all the way.

That is a tough one. Part of me leans towards Addai because he is 2 years younger and has over 1,200 less carear carries in the NFL. Part of me leans towards Portis because he has proven to carry a team on his back while Addai is just one of many offensive tools on his team.

[Keino]

That is a tough one. Part of me leans towards Addai because he is 2 years younger and has over 1,200 less carear carries in the NFL. Part of me leans towards Portis because he has proven to carry a team on his back while Addai is just one of many offensive tools on his team.

If it's a Fantasy team, I take Addai (Which is more of a statement about the offenses they play in). If it is a real team I take Portis all day in the paint.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

ESPN's analysis of any Redskin is always skewed in the wrong direction. I can't recall any block by Portis being missed at all. Yes he fumbled in the Green Bay game. That was the killer, but I don't see him as a fumbler.
The only thing I want from Portis and Betts is when they hit it up inside into the pile, keep their eyes up to see that they can bounce it out a bit and get a big gain. Sometimes I feel like they close their eyes and just try to push the pile. They need to keep their eyes up to improve their field vision.

[dj_stouty]

The only thing I want from Portis and Betts is when they hit it up inside into the pile, keep their eyes up to see that they can bounce it out a bit and get a big gain. Sometimes I feel like they close their eyes and just try to push the pile. They need to keep their eyes up to improve their field vision.


I'd also like to see Portis crouch down a bit more when he goes through the tackles. He seems to stand tall when hitting the LOS and that may be a reason for the balance issues Rich pointed out earlier. A lower center of gravity may allow him to hit the holes harder as well as get out of sight from those nasty LBs.

[Keino]

I'd also like to see Portis crouch down a bit more when he goes through the tackles. He seems to stand tall when hitting the LOS and that may be a reason for the balance issues Rich pointed out earlier. A lower center of gravity may allow him to hit the holes harder as well as get out of sight from those nasty LBs.

I really think his balance issues were related to adding more weight.

[Shrympscampi]

That was the killer, but I don't see him as a fumbler. .

Except that he fumble 6 times last year and we lost 5 of them. Statistically he fumbled once every 62 touches last year.

[bergiemoore]

Except that he fumble 6 times last year and we lost 5 of them. Statistically he fumbled once every 62 touches last year.

For his career, that number is around 77, which isn't too bad.

Peterson, Willie Parker, and Edgerrin James, among many others, are all in that 60 - 70 range for their careers, and you don't exactly think "fumbler" when you talk about them.

Someone like Reggie Bush, who averages a fumble every 31 touches can be more aptly labeled a "fumbler", or possibly Brandon Jacobs who fumbles every 42 carries.

Prior to Coughlin showing up in NY, I believe Tiki's career number was in the low 20's.

[Meatsnack]

I have a real problem with several of the premises in ther CP vs. The World argument. I will stick with the most erroneous for the moment, YPC as the determinant factor in rating a back.

Case Study: John Riggins, HOFer and universally acknowledged (outside of Dallass) as one of the all-time RB studs. He spent 9 seasons in Washington, in only two of which did he ever breach 4.0 YPC. (Riggins sat out the 1980 season)

1976 3.5
1977 3.0
1978 4.1
1979 4.4
1981 3.7
1982 3.1 (Super Bowl 17 MVP)
1983 3.6 (then NFL record 24 rushing TDs)
1984 3.8
1985 3.8

So, Riggins averaged 3.1 yards per carry during the regular season. He then dominated the playoffs setting rushing records throughout the post season, culminating in 166 yards and the deciding TD in the Super Bowl in 1982. So, was Riggins possessed by aliens in the post-season? No, he was the same MVP back. He was used differently.

Portis is our workhorse back. He got the Joe Gibbs II "Portis between the tackles on 1st down" runs that every defense knew was coming. He got all the obvious runs. He doesn't get the benefit of the LB hesitation to close on outside swing plays that backs who are used as pass catchers get (LDT is the best example of this). In 1981, Gibbs changed his whole offense to suit his players after losing 5 straight. In 2004, Gibbs built an offense around Portis that was John Riggins' offense and never really shifted it over to take advantage of what Clinton does best.

Clinton was a 5.5 YPC, big play, TD-scoring machine out of the zone stretch in Denver. We ran that less than 20% of the time in DC. Clinton is best in that blocking scheme because it allows him to choose his hole and use his quickness to hit it and run to daylight. In Gibbs' offense he had to hobble himself and wait for his blockers, by which time the defense had time to recover. Portis isn't the bull Riggins was and isn't suited to make a living that way but he gave it his all.

If Clinton can recover his suddenness, I look for him to be a 5.0 ypc back with double digit touchdowns and 280 to 300 carries this year. I also expect him to have 40 or more catches. Do not think that the Clinton that left Denver is dead and gone, that guy is still around and he is wearing the B&G. To my mind, only LDT is a better all-around back. AP in Minne may have the goods to be The Man, he may not. Clinton has proven that he does.

[firehawk157]

I have a real problem with several of the premises in ther CP vs. The World argument. I will stick with the most erroneous for the moment, YPC as the determinant factor in rating a back.

Case Study: John Riggins, HOFer and universally acknowledged (outside of Dallass) as one of the all-time RB studs. He spent 9 seasons in Washington, in only two of which did he ever breach 4.0 YPC. (Riggins sat out the 1980 season)

1976 3.5
1977 3.0
1978 4.1
1979 4.4
1981 3.7
1982 3.1 (Super Bowl 17 MVP)
1983 3.6 (then NFL record 24 rushing TDs)
1984 3.8
1985 3.8

So, Riggins averaged 3.1 yards per carry during the regular season. He then dominated the playoffs setting rushing records throughout the post season, culminating in 166 yards and the deciding TD in the Super Bowl in 1982. So, was Riggins possessed by aliens in the post-season? No, he was the same MVP back. He was used differently.

Portis is our workhorse back. He got the Joe Gibbs II "Portis between the tackles on 1st down" runs that every defense knew was coming. He got all the obvious runs. He doesn't get the benefit of the LB hesitation to close on outside swing plays that backs who are used as pass catchers get (LDT is the best example of this). In 1981, Gibbs changed his whole offense to suit his players after losing 5 straight. In 2004, Gibbs built an offense around Portis that was John Riggins' offense and never really shifted it over to take advantage of what Clinton does best.

Clinton was a 5.5 YPC, big play, TD-scoring machine out of the zone stretch in Denver. We ran that less than 20% of the time in DC. Clinton is best in that blocking scheme because it allows him to choose his hole and use his quickness to hit it and run to daylight. In Gibbs' offense he had to hobble himself and wait for his blockers, by which time the defense had time to recover. Portis isn't the bull Riggins was and isn't suited to make a living that way but he gave it his all.

If Clinton can recover his suddenness, I look for him to be a 5.0 ypc back with double digit touchdowns and 280 to 300 carries this year. I also expect him to have 40 or more catches. Do not think that the Clinton that left Denver is dead and gone, that guy is still around and he is wearing the B&G. To my mind, only LDT is a better all-around back. AP in Minne may have the goods to be The Man, he may not. Clinton has proven that he does.
God, all I can say is THIS!!! So much of THIS!!! Well put.