Taking a Look at the Redskins’ Offense - Hog Heaven Blog Entry

[NamVet4]

The issue here is that over the Gibbs era, the only fresh young blood on the offensive line that received any sort of playing time was 2007 UDFA Stephon Heyer. And that is a problem.

Today, Samuels, Thomas, and Jansen are all on the wrong side of 30. When they are all healthy, there is little difference in their play when compared to four seasons ago, but two trends are working against them. First of all, they aren’t really staying all that healthy. Jansen played in one game last year, Thomas in three. Thomas missed the final four games of 2005, Jansen missed all of 2004.



Read more here ! (http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/06/11/taking-a-look-at-the-redskins-offense/)

[Meatsnack]

I disagree slightly with the conclusion of the article. By way of comparison, was Joe Theismann as good a QB without Art Monk? I think we are largely at the mercy of Campbell's development but healthy production from our WR corp surely wouldn't hurt and can make a good young QB pretty great.

Another parallel I would draw is McNugget. He is a 55% passer in the WCO without anyone notable to throw to. Give him TO and he is a 64% passer. Coincidence? Not likely. If Moss can play like he cares and even one of the young guys we drafted (or Mix) steps up to be a 40+ catch guy, we can be a very productive offense if nothing improves in Campbell's game.

[culpeper]

I disagree slightly with the conclusion of the article. By way of comparison, was Joe Theismann as good a QB without Art Monk? I think we are largely at the mercy of Campbell's development but healthy production from our WR corp surely wouldn't hurt and can make a good young QB pretty great.

Another parallel I would draw is McNugget. He is a 55% passer in the WCO without anyone notable to throw to. Give him TO and he is a 64% passer. Coincidence? Not likely. If Moss can play like he cares and even one of the young guys we drafted (or Mix) steps up to be a 40+ catch guy, we can be a very productive offense if nothing improves in Campbell's game.

agree 100%. going back and watching the kid play last season he played really well. he made some mistakes, but he also made some great plays. those mistakes where largely atributed to :
1.lack of experience
2.lack of offensive creativity (playing close to the vest)
3.WRs not catching the ball, AND not having that big WR that makes a QB look good once in a while.

the thing i mostly notice when watching game tape is as soon as JC starts calling his OWN plays in the 2 minute drill...hes good...real good

[Cutter]

Are there any QB's beside Brees that really "got it" after more than 3 seasons? Everyone else I think of was pretty solid within 3 years (for current QBs)

[bergiemoore]

I don't think this is Greg Trippiedi's best work.

He remarks that Dockery was the emerging star on the OLine, which I can't agree with in any way, shape, or fashion. Dockery was making strides, but was still the arguably the worst player in the second easiest line position, according to Ross Tucker (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ross_tucker/04/02/oline.rankings/1.html) in a piece commented on by Greg (http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/04/07/ex-redskin-tucker-discusses-interior-lineman-value/) back in April. His depiction of the dire state of the OLine, due to overall age, durability issues and a lack of focus from the FO, seems to contradict his earlier assessment of OLine, and what should be done to address those needs.


A third round pick at a guard position should be totally sufficient, and a late rounder at Center would be a good idea. [source (http://mvn.com/nfl-redskins/2008/04/07/ex-redskin-tucker-discusses-interior-lineman-value/)]


The Skins, of course, picked Rinehart in the 3rd round, and have him lining up at Guard. The Skins went after several OLinemen immediately following the draft, where they found Crummey, who can play both Guard and Center, as well as Kyle DeVan who started 3 years at Center in college.

So, heading into training camp, the OLine depth chart looks something like this:


1st 2nd 3rd 4th
RT Jansen Wade Washington
RG Thomas Fabini Crummey Clark
C Rabach Jansen DeVan
LG Kendal Rinehart Brown Geisinger
LT Samuels Heyer



[note: Right now, Jansen is the #2 C on the chart due to Buges earlier statements. I expect both Crummey and DeVan to compete at this spot in TC.]

While the overall age of the starting linemen is certainly reason for concern, the depth is a marked improvement over last year around this time. Heyer is a proven talent at Tackle who has received nothing but accolades from Buges for his offseason improvement. Crummey is another guy that Buges is excited about. Rinehart has earned positive remarks from the head coach. If only two of those three guys make the roster, in addition to the starting 5 plus Fabini and Wade, the Skins will be in much better shape than last season. Personally, I'm hoping that the Skins carry 10 OLinemen, and that Fabini and Wade are beat out by Heyer, Rinehart, Crummey, Brown and Washington.

Still, for all my complaining, the salient points of the article are spot on.

Again, the success or failure of this unit comes down to two factors: Jason Campbell’s continued development, and the rebound of an offensive line that really struggled last year with injuries and getting the job done.

Of this, there can be no doubt. Campbell has the talent at the skill positions to succeed. The success of the offense, and Zorn's first year at HC, is largely on his shoulders.

[Meatsnack]

I dunno. Elway only became a 60% passer in his 11th season, the same year he ever went over a 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio. I hear he was pretty good.

Terry Bradshaw broke the 55% accuracy barrier and the 2:1 ration in his 6th year.

Brett Favre threw 24 Ints in his second full season as a starter. He rebounded to look pretty good in 1994 after 31 games under center.

Jim Kelly went over 60% and 2:1 in his 5th season.

Even "The Great Peyton Manning" was 56.7% with 28 Ints in his first 16 games. It wasn't until his 3rd season, after 32 games under center, that he went over a 2:1 TD to Int ratio.

In short, have some patience. The kid may be very good, he may be a career journeyman. You just don't know, yet.

[Cutter]

Manning did it in 3 seasons. None of the other QBs are playing.

Thanks for linking that article again bergie. That's probably the best article on O-line play I've ever read.

[Keino]

Manning did it in 3 seasons. None of the other QBs are playing.

Thanks for linking that article again bergie. That's probably the best article on O-line play I've ever read.

Manning is the exception not the rule and those QBs he mentioned have played recent enough to be fitting examples. Favre, Kelly and Elway all played recent enough and under the current rules. And that's 3 seasons of playing BTW. JC sat his entire 1st year, so THIS SEASON would be year #3.


Another parallel I would draw is McNugget. He is a 55% passer in the WCO without anyone notable to throw to. Give him TO and he is a 64% passer. Coincidence? Not likely. If Moss can play like he cares and even one of the young guys we drafted (or Mix) steps up to be a 40+ catch guy, we can be a very productive offense if nothing improves in Campbell's game.

I agree 100%, but I also anticipate some major improvement from him. I also agree with your later post. He could be great, he could be a journeyman. We simply don't know yet.

[bergiemoore]

Manning did it in 3 seasons. None of the other QBs are playing.

Thanks for linking that article again bergie. That's probably the best article on O-line play I've ever read.

Ross Tucker is the man. It's a shame his career ended prematurely.

[jaylen]

we have alot of wildcards to iron out. I think O line health will be the ultimate determinant of how good we are offensively.

If we can protect I think we'll be very good on offense with bigger targets and more explosive passing plays.

Last season our offense was just strangled with a lack of explosiveness, Cooley was the only big play guy we had. I think one of our youngsters and Mix will make stuff happen. And Moss in a less pressurized role outside should return to make the big plays down the field.

I'm pretty optimistic offensively. Zorn has more of a feel for current offensive football without the meddling of an Old coach looking over the shoulder and messing things up.

BUT defense is a whole other thing.

[Cutter]

I really liked him too. I was sorry when he left the team and when he was forced into retirement.

[bergiemoore]

I really liked him too. I was sorry when he left the team and when he was forced into retirement.

Well, as evidenced here, his transition into journalism appears to have gone off without a hitch.

As coincidence would have it, he's written an article today in which he identifies "32 Players Who Must Produce Early in 2008". Number 2 on this list is none other than Jason Campbell.

2. Jason Campbell, QB, Washington Redskins: New coach Jim Zorn has said publicly Campbell is his starting quarterback but this is a veteran-laden team that is built to win now. If Campbell struggles to assimilate himself to another new offense, the reins may have to be turned over to last year's hero, Todd Collins. [source (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ross_tucker/06/12/produce.early/index.html)]

I have to say, I agree with the guy. I'm not sure how much patience Zorn will have with Campbell during his rookie head coaching year.

[AUviaMD101]

Our O-line should have a young pedigree stud in the fold...

I couldnt agree more...

[Cutter]

Typical. Tucker says it and he's brilliant. I say it months ago and I'm a hater.

[redskin_rich]

Typical. Tucker says it and he's brilliant. I say it months ago and I'm a hater.

You've already jumped to a conclusion, which is typical. What Tucker says is "if." Either way, there is nothing brilliant about stating the obvious.

[Cutter]

So I'm brilliant if I'm right in my prediction (not conclusion)?

[redskin_rich]

So I'm brilliant if I'm right in my prediction (not conclusion)?
Will that make you happy?

What's your prediction? That JC is going to fail?

[AUviaMD101]

You've already jumped to a conclusion, which is typical. What Tucker says is "if." Either way, there is nothing brilliant about stating the obvious.

It IS obvious... It damn sure is... But my question to all of you. Would you have been comfortable if the Skins addressed the Oline issue in the 1st round? Maybe Duane Brown? Or Sam Baker? I'm just curious. I loved the 3 picks in the 2nd. I thought that was brilliant. But to load up on offensive weapons is VERY gutsy. And that move BETTER produce.

I still feel that next year we need either a 1st or second round OLineman. I see Heyer starting sooner than later. And I see Rhinehart being the replacement to Pete Kendall. But outside of that, I see too much pressure on Buges to make diamonds out of concrete. Give him a ruby...

IMO

[redskin_rich]

It IS obvious... It damn sure is... But my question to all of you. Would you have been comfortable if the Skins addressed the Oline issue in the 1st round? Maybe Duane Brown? Or Sam Baker? I'm just curious. I loved the 3 picks in the 2nd. I thought that was brilliant. But to load up on offensive weapons is VERY gutsy. And that move BETTER produce.

I still feel that next year we need either a 1st or second round OLineman. I see Heyer starting sooner than later. And I see Rhinehart being the replacement to Pete Kendall. But outside of that, I see too much pressure on Buges to make diamonds out of concrete. Give him a ruby...

IMONo, I'm fine with the O-Line as is right now. We'll need some more youth but I wasn't wanting to use a high pick on that this year. The Rhinehart pick was right about where I wanted us to add a Guard. I definitely didn't want to take the 10th best Offensive Lineman with our 1st pick.

[bergiemoore]

It IS obvious... It damn sure is... But my question to all of you. Would you have been comfortable if the Skins addressed the Oline issue in the 1st round? Maybe Duane Brown? Or Sam Baker? I'm just curious. I loved the 3 picks in the 2nd. I thought that was brilliant. But to load up on offensive weapons is VERY gutsy. And that move BETTER produce.


The OLinemen available when the Skins picked were not worth 1st round money. I thought trading back was a really good move. Unless your club needs a Tackle to start right away, I don't see the point taking a risk on an 1st round OLinemen. There is much better value taking a mid-rounder, and grooming him over the course of a year or two.


I still feel that next year we need either a 1st or second round OLineman. I see Heyer starting sooner than later. And I see Rhinehart being the replacement to Pete Kendall. But outside of that, I see too much pressure on Buges to make diamonds out of concrete. Give him a ruby...

IMO

Buges has made a career of turning concrete into diamonds. Mark May was the only 1st rounder on the Hogs and Grimm was a 3rd. The rest were either UDFAs or would be in todays 7 round draft. (EDIT: I'm not counting the Tight Ends)

Buges has a good eye for talent along the lines. I'm happy that the Skins handed him some bona fide talent in the draft with Rinehart, and am wholly impressed with Heyer's development. I think that Crummey is another UDFA that could be molded into a starting Guard. I also really like Brown, but he's a project that will be years in the making.

For this year and next year, I think they have enough depth. I would be happy, however, if they spent a 2nd/3rd round pick on a quality Tackle in the 2009 draft.

[Cutter]

What's me being happy have to do with anything? I'll be happy if the skins can find themselves a true Franchise QB. I don't think it's JC, but I hope it is.

[Keino]

Typical. Tucker says it and he's brilliant. I say it months ago and I'm a hater.

The difference is that you couched your view that concluded that Campbell was not only not the answer, but that he is primarily responsible for the Offensive woes in the first part of last season and he was primarily responsible for Moss and others' lack of production. You ignored all other factors that pointed elsewhere in reaching your conclusion.

Tucker says what all of us who opposed your view were saying (and what is rather obvious)......That it remains to be seen and that 20 games is not nearly enough to draw the conclusions you were drawing, but rest assured, this is a Huge year in Campbell's development, possibly make or break.

To act like you were saying what Tucker said is disingenuous at best and outright dishonest at worst.

I will pull old threads is forced to.....

[bergiemoore]

The difference is that you couched your view that concluded that Campbell was not only not the answer, but that he is primarily responsible for the Offensive woes in the first part of last season and he was primarily responsible for Moss and others' lack of production. You ignored all other factors that pointed elsewhere in reaching your conclusion.

Tucker says what all of us who opposed your view were saying (and what is rather obvious)......That it remains to be seen and that 20 games is not nearly enough to draw the conclusions you were drawing, but rest assured, this is a Huge year in Campbell's development, possibly make or break.

To act like you were saying what Tucker said is disingenuous at best and outright dishonest at worst.

I will pull old threads is forced to.....

I think what Tucker is saying is actually a little more nuanced than, "This is a make or break year for Campbell." Tucker's direct quote is:

If Campbell struggles to assimilate himself to another new offense, the reins may have to be turned over to last year's hero, Todd Collins.

There is an immense amount of pressure for a rookie head coach with a veteran team to win football games right out of the gate. Team owners no longer have the patience with head coaches to wait for 3 years while a coach's system takes root. Owners expect results in year 1. If Campbell does not immediately exhibit proficiency in Zorn's offense, there will be a tremendous amount of pressure on Zorn to hand the offense over to the seasoned vet, Collins, who demonstrated remarkable proficiency last year. For Zorn, keeping his own job is probably more important than watching Campbell struggle while the team, as a whole, gets a year older.

This does not mean that Campbell will be "done" in the NFL, or that he won't be the franchise QB of the future. Hasselback went through a bad stint in his career at the end of 2001, when Dilfer was elevated to the starting QB in part due to Hasselback's injuries as well as a 5-7 record as a starter. Zorn continued to work with Hasselback throughout 2002, as the starting job oscillated back and forth between him and Dilfer. Hasselback was capable enough to work through all of that and is now one of the best QBs in the NFC, and is most certainly, a franchise QB. Campbell's career trajectory is certainly moving upwards. The only point Tucker makes is that it needs to be a step trajectory for him to maintain his starting position in 08.

[Keino]

I think what Tucker is saying is actually a little more nuanced than, "This is a make or break year for Campbell." Tucker's direct quote is:



There is an immense amount of pressure for a rookie head coach with a veteran team to win football games right out of the gate. Team owners no longer have the patience with head coaches to wait for 3 years while a coach's system takes root. Owners expect results in year 1. If Campbell does not immediately exhibit proficiency in Zorn's offense, there will be a tremendous amount of pressure on Zorn to hand the offense over to the seasoned vet, Collins, who demonstrated remarkable proficiency last year. For Zorn, keeping his own job is probably more important than watching Campbell struggle while the team, as a whole, gets a year older.

This does not mean that Campbell will be "done" in the NFL, or that he won't be the franchise QB of the future. Hasselback went through a bad stint in his career at the end of 2001, when Dilfer was elevated to the starting QB in part due to Hasselback's injuries as well as a 5-7 record as a starter. Zorn continued to work with Hasselback throughout 2002, as the starting job oscillated back and forth between him and Dilfer. Hasselback was capable enough to work through all of that and is now one of the best QBs in the NFC, and is most certainly, a franchise QB. Campbell's career trajectory is certainly moving upwards. The only point Tucker makes is that it needs to be a step trajectory for him to maintain his starting position in 08.


Fair enough. Cutter never said any of that, yet claims to have been labeled a "hater" for posting exactly what Tuckers said. That was my point.

I tend to think that Zorn will be pretty patient as this will be a new system for Todd Collins as well.

[AUviaMD101]

What's me being happy have to do with anything? I'll be happy if the skins can find themselves a true Franchise QB. I don't think it's JC, but I hope it is.

J-Cam will be fine... Relax... The kid is a Franchise QB... He has all the right tools, he can lead. He will lead. I have faith in my boy...

Tons of faith. He has all the right weapons to do great things this year. I think more emphasis should be put on Zorn making the right calls.

Let Campbell do his thing...

[Cutter]

If we weren't Redskins fans you wouldn't love JC so much. Your hope is making you guys less than objective. The board sounds just like Ravens fans about Kyle Boller before they got McNair.

AU - I'm confused. Zorn make the calls or let Campbell do his thing? They're mutually exclusive right?

[akhhorus]

If we weren't Redskins fans you wouldn't love JC so much. Your hope is making you guys less than objective. The board sounds just like Ravens fans about Kyle Boller before they got McNair.


What does this have to do with what Keino said?

[dj_stouty]

If we weren't Redskins fans you wouldn't love JC so much. Your hope is making you guys less than objective. The board sounds just like Ravens fans about Kyle Boller before they got McNair.



Well we are fans, aren't we? I'd imagine us Skins fans have a bit more emotionally and personally invested in Jason than say a Kansas City Chief fan would, don't you think? As fans, we researched his bio when he was drafted, we watched him in camp and preseason and we have seen him developing as the past 3 years have passed. We know him better than any other fanbase. Accusing us of being blind on Jason is a cop out on your part to try and advance your argument.

To be quite honest, I think most of us here at HR have been pretty darn honest about Jason's faults. He isn't a top tier QB yet, and I don't believe a single person has prematurely labeled him that yet.

We all know you are eagerly hoping Jason fails so you can feel good about yourself. I know several Redskins fans who felt the same way about Brunell as well. Its a shame.

[bergiemoore]

If we weren't Redskins fans you wouldn't love JC so much. Your hope is making you guys less than objective. The board sounds just like Ravens fans about Kyle Boller before they got McNair.

AU - I'm confused. Zorn make the calls or let Campbell do his thing? They're mutually exclusive right?

From an objective standpoint, it is clear that Campbell has the physical tools to compete in the NFL. He has shown progress through his 20 starts, but is still not up to the level that he needs to be to solidify his status as a starting QB. The biggest area of opportunity for Campbell is his mastery of the offensive scheme. The fact that he is now learning his 3rd scheme in 4 years hasn't helped, but it is a part of life in the NFL. If he is able to really master the ins and outs of Zorn's system, his physical tools, athleticism and youth will cement him as the franchise QB for the Skins for the foreseeable future. If he struggles with the mental part of the offense, Collins will again have the opportunity to start in the NFL. While I believe Zorn will be patient with Campbell, his patience is certainly not infinite. I don't think Zorn will be nearly as patient as Gibbs was with Brunnel. This team is made to win now. Zorn is not going to wait until the Skins are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention to pull the plug on Campbell if he is struggling. I would guess that by week 5, if this offense is still sputtering, and Campbell is clearly the reason, Zorn will pull him.

[Hrabanmaur]

From an objective standpoint, it is clear that Campbell has the physical tools to compete in the NFL. He has shown progress through his 20 starts, but is still not up to the level that he needs to be to solidify his status as a starting QB. The biggest area of opportunity for Campbell is his mastery of the offensive scheme. The fact that he is now learning his 3rd scheme in 4 years hasn't helped, but it is a part of life in the NFL. If he is able to really master the ins and outs of Zorn's system, his physical tools, athleticism and youth will cement him as the franchise QB for the Skins for the foreseeable future. If he struggles with the mental part of the offense, Collins will again have the opportunity to start in the NFL. While I believe Zorn will be patient with Campbell, his patience is certainly not infinite. I don't think Zorn will be nearly as patient as Gibbs was with Brunnel. This team is made to win now. Zorn is not going to wait until the Skins are mathematically eliminated from playoff contention to pull the plug on Campbell if he is struggling. I would guess that by week 5, if this offense is still sputtering, and Campbell is clearly the reason, Zorn will pull him.

I think 5 weeks is much to soon to yank JC unless he's had a HUGE backslide from last year, and I don't think Zorn will be that impatient.

Let's be clear, Zorns' future is tied to Campbell. Snyder hired him primarily to tutor and develop Campbell, not Collins or Brennan. Collins is what he is, a very capable back-up QB, but not a starting QB nor a long term solution. That's why no other team tried to pick him up in the off season (and there were several teams with QB woes). Taking Campbell out will hurt his development. He's at an age where it's too late to protect his ego if he falters. If you take him out, you pretty much assure he won't be the franchise QB. Instead, we'll have a Rex Grossman or J.P. Losman. Zorn will then have to develop another QB and find success with him in the next three years, all the while ticking off Snyder for dumping Campbell. I just don't see that scenario playing out well for anyone.

[silverspring]

First of all I went from really questioning to being really high on our oline right now. We have complemented our core of old high talent veteran guys with a set of high potential youngsters between heyer, rhinehart, brown, crummney etc. The only position we need to seek depth at is center. These guys might not all turn into starters but I feel like we set ourselves up to succeed and you can't ask for more than that.

In terms of JC, it is still unknown. It is a big question mark whether he will be a superstar qb, but it is fairly likely he will be at least an average qb. And lets all remember the qb that just won the superbowl.
Either way time will tell and the smart thing to do right now is give him his chance and be patient. Patience is not a word that has been used much at redskins park for a while. It would be foolish to be freaking out because he was still struggling last season. He might fail, but we shouldn't stop building the rest of our team because we aren't sure if jc is going to be a star. In the mean time, we are doing the smart thing, building around the qb position. Solidifying other elements of the offense. Even an average qb can be very successful if the pieces around him are solid. If JC fails then hopefully we can just plug another guy into a solid offense.

[Keino]

If we weren't Redskins fans you wouldn't love JC so much. Your hope is making you guys less than objective. The board sounds just like Ravens fans about Kyle Boller before they got McNair.



So we sound like Ravens fans because we aren't willing to say a guy sucks after 20 starts? A guy who clearly showed improvement. Or do we sound like Ravens fans because we aren't willing to ignore the other factors that made our offense pretty crappy in the 1st half of last season?

Like I said, you didn't come close to saying what Tucker said. You legitimately earned your title.

[firehawk157]

Zorn, as far as I have seen, is incredibly honest with what he thinks and very anti-Gibbs like when talking about his players to the press. He stays away from the canned answers and the everything is fine attitude. The reason I say this is he seems to be very honest about Campbell in the fact that he has said his share of negatives (says that he doesn't care how many systems Campbell has learned and has to work on his mechanics) but also has said that he thinks Campbell can be the guy.

Now, you can dismiss this as coach-speak, but my point is in the little time that Zorn has been under the spotlight, I haven't heard a bit of coach-speak from him. Which, if you follow my point, can only lead you to believe that one of the premiere QB coaches thinks Campbell can get it done.

[bergiemoore]

I think 5 weeks is much to soon to yank JC unless he's had a HUGE backslide from last year, and I don't think Zorn will be that impatient.

Let's be clear, Zorns' future is tied to Campbell. Snyder hired him primarily to tutor and develop Campbell, not Collins or Brennan. Collins is what he is, a very capable back-up QB, but not a starting QB nor a long term solution. That's why no other team tried to pick him up in the off season (and there were several teams with QB woes). Taking Campbell out will hurt his development. He's at an age where it's too late to protect his ego if he falters. If you take him out, you pretty much assure he won't be the franchise QB. Instead, we'll have a Rex Grossman or J.P. Losman. Zorn will then have to develop another QB and find success with him in the next three years, all the while ticking off Snyder for dumping Campbell. I just don't see that scenario playing out well for anyone.

I disagree with this assertion. I explained earlier how Hasselback was in the exact same situation in 2001 & 2002. He seems to have recovered just fine, and under Zorn's tutelage, I might add.

Zorn's future is tied to the team's Win/Lose record, not Jason Campbell. As a head coach, he has to put this all powerful stat in front of any single player.

Just to put my views into perspective, Campbell has to be beyond the shadow of a doubt completely lost out there for 4 pre-season and 5 regular season games before I believe Zorn would resort to pulling him. He has to look worse than Rex without a running game.

Personally, I think Campbell is a smart guy that will adjust to Zorn's system quickly and show consistent progress through this same time period. I also think the running game will be more consistent this year, with a healthy OLine and a premier running back in NFL shape by week 1. This will likely take much of the strain off the passing game.

I don't think my described doomsday scenario will actually happen, but if Campbell clearly is not getting it through 9 games (4 pre-season and 5 regular), then I hope, for the team's sake, that Zorn does pull him and tries to salvage a winning season.

[firehawk157]

Cutter, sorry dude, but you sound like an Eagles fan, wanting a QB to produce the day he puts on cleats. Show some patience and let Campbell develop. Rome wasn't built in one day...

[firehawk157]

I disagree with this assertion. I explained earlier how Hasselback was in the exact same situation in 2001 & 2002. He seems to have recovered just fine, and under Zorn's tutelage, I might add.

Zorn's future is tied to the team's Win/Lose record, not Jason Campbell. As a head coach, he has to put this all powerful stat in front of any single player.

Just to put my views into perspective, Campbell has to be beyond the shadow of a doubt completely lost out there for 4 pre-season and 5 regular season games before I believe Zorn would resort to pulling him. He has to look worse than Rex without a running game.

Personally, I think Campbell is a smart guy that will adjust to Zorn's system quickly and show consistent progress through this same time period. I also think the running game will be more consistent this year, with a healthy OLine and a premier running back in NFL shape by week 1. This will likely take much of the strain off the passing game.

I don't think my described doomsday scenario will actually happen, but if Campbell clearly is not getting it through 9 games (4 pre-season and 5 regular), then I hope, for the team's sake, that Zorn does pull him and tries to salvage a winning season.
I can see what you are saying, but there are 5 pre-season games for us this year. Just a small correction.

[bergiemoore]

I can see what you are saying, but there are 5 pre-season games for us this year. Just a small correction.

How right you are.

[HanburgerBum]

I think what Tucker is saying is actually a little more nuanced than, "This is a make or break year for Campbell." Tucker's direct quote is:



There is an immense amount of pressure for a rookie head coach with a veteran team to win football games right out of the gate. Team owners no longer have the patience with head coaches to wait for 3 years while a coach's system takes root. Owners expect results in year 1. If Campbell does not immediately exhibit proficiency in Zorn's offense, there will be a tremendous amount of pressure on Zorn to hand the offense over to the seasoned vet, Collins, who demonstrated remarkable proficiency last year. For Zorn, keeping his own job is probably more important than watching Campbell struggle while the team, as a whole, gets a year older.

This does not mean that Campbell will be "done" in the NFL, or that he won't be the franchise QB of the future. Hasselback went through a bad stint in his career at the end of 2001, when Dilfer was elevated to the starting QB in part due to Hasselback's injuries as well as a 5-7 record as a starter. Zorn continued to work with Hasselback throughout 2002, as the starting job oscillated back and forth between him and Dilfer. Hasselback was capable enough to work through all of that and is now one of the best QBs in the NFC, and is most certainly, a franchise QB. Campbell's career trajectory is certainly moving upwards. The only point Tucker makes is that it needs to be a step trajectory for him to maintain his starting position in 08.


I sure hope you are wrong about Snyder not going to show patience with Zorn and in turn Campbell. I don't see the Skins doing well the first half of the season when they will be striving to gel on offense. Giving Zorn the quick hook will mean yet another offensive scheme for Campbell to learn. No team can be successful with constant turnovers in the coach staff. Stability is a must to develop long-term success.

[bergiemoore]

I sure hope you are wrong about Snyder not going to show patience with Zorn and in turn Campbell. I don't see the Skins doing well the first half of the season when they will be striving to gel on offense. Giving Zorn the quick hook will mean yet another offensive scheme for Campbell to learn. No team can be successful with constant turnovers in the coach staff. Stability is a must to develop long-term success.

Zorn should have at least as long as Spurrier. However, it has been stated by Vinny and Dan that they were not looking for someone to come in and build a team from scratch. They felt that Gibbs assembled a team that was ready to win. Their expectations are that this team should be competitive this year. I think if they start off slow on offense, but show improvement as the year progresses, Zorn is in good shape. If Zorn's offense is still stuck in neutral by the end of the season, and the Skins are below .500, then Zorn will have reason to be worried about his long term prospects.

[firehawk157]

Zorn should have at least as long as Spurrier. However, it has been stated by Vinny and Dan that they were not looking for someone to come in and build a team from scratch. They felt that Gibbs assembled a team that was ready to win. Their expectations are that this team should be competitive this year. I think if they start off slow on offense, but show improvement as the year progresses, Zorn is in good shape. If Zorn's offense is still stuck in neutral by the end of the season, and the Skins are below .500, then Zorn will have reason to be worried about his long term prospects.
And it really should if you think about it. There are a couple of reasons to think we should be at least as competitive as last year.

1) I don't think we'll see any defensive drop-off. Same players, with some development from Rocky, Landry, Montgomery and Wilson. Same scheme though, so there's no reason we should post a ranking much lower than 8th.
2) Our offense HAS TALENT. Portis is a top-5/10 back (depends on who you talk to) with half a line (and our depth problems in case of injury has been shored up a great deal) and Cooley is a top-5 TE. It isn't like we are a void of offensive talent.
3) We got less than 20 PPG. Does anyone think that Zorn can't at least MATCH this, with the talent we've got?

[MadDog97]

For years now I continue to promote the addition of youth on both sides of the ball. I agree with the article that we need more youth on the offensive line, but also we still need youth on the D line as well. I think we should have gone after lineman more aggressively in the draft. JC's development will depend on how long he stays upright. I am not sure the front office truly appreciates our needs on the line. Personally, I would have taken only one wideout in the 2nd round and looked for the best offensive lineman. If two wideouts are needed then hold back on the tight end position. In the second round one wideout, one defensive end, and one stud offensive lineman would have been perfect. I would also have taken my chances on a lineman versus a punter in the sixth.

We also still could use help on the D line and Erasmus James is risky for health reasons. Gholston and Montgomery must step up at Defensive tackle as well.

In 2009 draft, I hope the front office recognizes that we need to go strong at offensive tackle and get a youth infusion on the D line.

[shally]

For years now I continue to promote the addition of youth on both sides of the ball. I agree with the article that we need more youth on the offensive line, but also we still need youth on the D line as well. I think we should have gone after lineman more aggressively in the draft. JC's development will depend on how long he stays upright. I am not sure the front office truly appreciates our needs on the line. Personally, I would have taken only one wideout in the 2nd round and looked for the best offensive lineman. If two wideouts are needed then hold back on the tight end position. In the second round one wideout, one defensive end, and one stud offensive lineman would have been perfect. I would also have taken my chances on a lineman versus a punter in the sixth.

We also still could use help on the D line and Erasmus James is risky for health reasons. Gholston and Montgomery must step up at Defensive tackle as well.

In 2009 draft, I hope the front office recognizes that we need to go strong at offensive tackle and get a youth infusion on the D line.

i cannot argue with the FO position that this year was a poor year for DL in both the free agent class as well as the draft.. we just have to hope for the development of wilson and buzbee, and that monty and golston continue to get stronger and more productive.
the real key is james' health. if he is starter worthy, we are a long way towards solidifying the DL

as to the O line, i think getting reinhart will be enough IF thomas and jansen can stay healthy.. we will then have heyer, devan, crummey, and brown to find young reserves from.. heyer will be a reserve and spot starter and my guess is that 1 or 2 are stashed on PS for next year.

we will need to continuously address both lines each year in the draft, but getting 1 player per year should be enough to make a smooth transition

[MadDog97]

i cannot argue with the FO position that this year was a poor year for DL in both the free agent class as well as the draft.. we just have to hope for the development of wilson and buzbee, and that monty and golston continue to get stronger and more productive.
the real key is james' health. if he is starter worthy, we are a long way towards solidifying the DL

as to the O line, i think getting reinhart will be enough IF thomas and jansen can stay healthy.. we will then have heyer, devan, crummey, and brown to find young reserves from.. heyer will be a reserve and spot starter and my guess is that 1 or 2 are stashed on PS for next year.

we will need to continuously address both lines each year in the draft, but getting 1 player per year should be enough to make a smooth transition

Montgomery and Gholston do show promise and Carter has one end position filled. James is the question mark. I would have preferred a DE from the draft. If Wilson or Buzbee blossom, that will be a plus.

My main question is at tight end. Did we need a tight end in the second? Could we have gone with the DE or even an offensive lineman? The D line concerns me but it seems that on the offensive line injuries with the older guys are killing us. Alexander showed promise but we need to develop him as a D lineman. I also would have used the sixth pick on an offensive line project versus a punter. The chances of Jansen, Thomas, and Samuels staying healthy are very slim in my opinion.

I agree the front office filled some holes, but they consistently underestimate the value of the line.

[AUviaMD101]

this year was a poor year for DL in both the free agent class as well as the draft.. we just have to hope for the development of wilson and buzbee, and that monty and golston continue to get stronger and more productive.
the real key is james' health. if he is starter worthy, we are a long way towards solidifying the DL.

What? The draft was LOADED with DL prospects. FA included Haynesworth (although franchised), Ian Scott, Randy Starks, Corey Williams (franchised), and Justin Smith.

And the prize IMO of the 2008 DL FA pool: Antwan Odom.

We need James to get us AT LEAST 6 Sacks. Thats it. Daniels had a brilliant offseason. Carter is prone to give us 8-11. And wilson should give us 6. Thats alot coming off the end. And they SHOULD produce. We need out interior to play big. Montgomery is a run stopping MACHINE, Golston is a ball of energy coming off the bench, and Griffin is well... Griffin. Our DLine should be fine for this season. But next year, I can EASILY see us knabbing a DT in the late 1st, late 2nd.

[akhhorus]

What? The draft was LOADED with DL prospects. FA included Haynesworth (although franchised), Ian Scott, Randy Starks, Corey Williams (franchised), and Justin Smith.


The Titans weren't listening to offers for Haynesworth, and he's been a loser except when he's playing for a contract.

Ian Scott, Smith and Starks aren't anything special-Scott is a career 3rd stringer who no one wants. Corey Williams would have been a good pick up, but costly.

[saratogan]

4 key issues:
1) Will the o-line play in-tack this year?
2) Will Zorn's offensive scheme's work?
3) Will Campbell adapt and continue to improve?
4) Will one of the rookie wide-outs perform well?

1) An old, but salient, adage in football: Games are won or lost in the trenches. Everything else flows from the lines ability to properly execute the called play.

The Redskin's offensive line was in turmoil from day one until the end of the season. That affected the teams w-l record. Not many teams could have done as well as the Redskins did last year considering what happened. Bugel proved he still has the ability and knowledge as one of the best line coaches in the modern times.

This year, going into camp, there is more depth. The question about our o-line is twofold: How good is that depth and how durable will the line be?

If the o-line stays healthy this year ( and survive the whole season), then it will be an extremely good line. If we lose one player due to injury, that is survivable. If we lose two, then how well do the backups play? I can not answer that question.

U]If the o-line stays in-tack, I would argue that the line will be as powerful and capable as most in the NFL.[/U] If the o-line stays in-tack, I would expect to see a big improvement in the passing game (along with - hopefully - the rookie wide-outs contributing in their first year. The biggest improvement - and most important - must be success in the red-zone. Last year, the Redskins were terrible in the red-zone.

2) Too early to know.

3) Jason Campbell is the big unknown. Another offensive play book. This is -what - his sixth offensive coach and playbook in 8 years (college and pro)? How many quarterbacks would survive such change? Jason performed well, at times, last year. Sometimes, he was running for his life. Sometimes, he had no receivers to go to. To me, at least, he shows alot of potential. His play from the mid-point of the season and on will be the determining factor about his future potential.

4) The passing game could be powerful, and somewhat similar to the Patriots - but not nearly as polished or successful. The key - as everyone knows, is the need for a tall wideout. So, the ability of either, or both, rookies to perform and start, is critical to the Redskins passing game. If one of the rookies does adapt to NFL and performs well, then the Redskins have the potential to have the best receiving corp in the league. Moss, Randle-El, Kelley (or other), Portis, Cooley, Yoder (or rookie TE) all can catch and run well with the ball.

Overall, the potential is great. Again, so much is dependent upon the 0-line's ability to stay healthy and properly executing it's assignments. For me, the o-line is the critical piece of this puzzle.

[Keino]

4 key issues:
1) Will the o-line play in-tack this year?
2) Will Zorn's offensive scheme's work?
3) Will Campbell adapt and continue to improve?
4) Will one of the rookie wide-outs perform well?

1) An old, but salient, adage in football: Games are won or lost in the trenches. Everything else flows from the lines ability to properly execute the called play.

The Redskin's offensive line was in turmoil from day one until the end of the season. That affected the teams w-l record. Not many teams could have done as well as the Redskins did last year considering what happened. Bugel proved he still has the ability and knowledge as one of the best line coaches in the modern times.

This year, going into camp, there is more depth. The question about our o-line is twofold: How good is that depth and how durable will the line be?

If the o-line stays healthy this year ( and survive the whole season), then it will be an extremely good line. If we lose one player due to injury, that is survivable. If we lose two, then how well do the backups play? I can not answer that question.

U]If the o-line stays in-tack, I would argue that the line will be as powerful and capable as most in the NFL.[/U] If the o-line stays in-tack, I would expect to see a big improvement in the passing game (along with - hopefully - the rookie wide-outs contributing in their first year. The biggest improvement - and most important - must be success in the red-zone. Last year, the Redskins were terrible in the red-zone.

2) Too early to know.

3) Jason Campbell is the big unknown. Another offensive play book. This is -what - his sixth offensive coach and playbook in 8 years (college and pro)? How many quarterbacks would survive such change? Jason performed well, at times, last year. Sometimes, he was running for his life. Sometimes, he had no receivers to go to. To me, at least, he shows alot of potential. His play from the mid-point of the season and on will be the determining factor about his future potential.

4) The passing game could be powerful, and somewhat similar to the Patriots - but not nearly as polished or successful. The key - as everyone knows, is the need for a tall wideout. So, the ability of either, or both, rookies to perform and start, is critical to the Redskins passing game. If one of the rookies does adapt to NFL and performs well, then the Redskins have the potential to have the best receiving corp in the league. Moss, Randle-El, Kelley (or other), Portis, Cooley, Yoder (or rookie TE) all can catch and run well with the ball.

Overall, the potential is great. Again, so much is dependent upon the 0-line's ability to stay healthy and properly executing it's assignments. For me, the o-line is the critical piece of this puzzle.

This is a great post. I don't agree with all of it, but this is still a great post.