Preseason Week Two - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[flave1969]

Good - Jason Campbell, kept a scoring drive going despite two 10 yard penalties, just keep this up JC, keep it up.

Ladell Betts- played hard, ran hard and was very effective all around.

Chad Rinehart - Again looked like the real deal last night.

Bad - Coverage on returns was not good at all tonight

Ugly - Marcus Mason fumbling the first kick off was not good for him, luckily he ran pretty well again.

Todd Collins was making a statement until he threw into triple coverage. Ugly pass with an ugly result

[Patrick]

GOOD ........... First String, Betts, MASON
Bad A .............. Turn overs
Bad B .............. Too many players not on the field due to injuries
Ugly ............. Preseaon ..:D

[Farmer Ted]

Bad - Coverage on returns was not good at all tonight


Frost's punt on the one long return in the second half was terrible. He did do a nice job slowing the guy up enough to prevent a game-winning TD, though.

[The Iceman]

After watching the game again today I think that we played very well overall despite only scoring 17 points.

The Good: Ladell Betts looked to be back to his form from 06... The first string defense was sick. Jason Campbell and the first string offense as a whole was solid. I thought Matt Sinclair played a very good game, save for one play that he was caught out of position. He also saved a TD on that punt return. Antwaan Randle El seems to always be in position to bail the offense out as soon as a play starts to go bad. He is looking very impressive. Billy McMullen will make this team. He has experience in the system, and he has been very impressive. It's nice to see heady play at the WR position. McMullen seems to always know where the first down marker is. Thumbs up to Rinehart, Montgomery, Mason, Giesinger, and London Fletcher.

The Bad: The 2nd and 3rd string secondary. Justin Tryon was in position all night, just didn't make the plays necessary to get the job done. I really missed seeing Chris Horton's dreadlocks flying around the field. Hopefully he will be back next week. No pass rush whatsoever all game. It seems as though the Buffalo quarterbacks's had all day to throw. Good thing Buffalo quarterbacks don't throw so well. Portis seemed like he was running to not get hurt, instead of running to gain yardage. I understand why, just would like to see him cutting up defenses like he is capable of. On the 3rd and goal, he gave up and didn't get into the endzone when some extra effort would have easily gave him the surge to cross the plane.

The Ugly: Although Derrick Frost had some nice kicks last night, there were also some ducks. I really hope Durant Brooks wins this competition. It would be nice to kick from our own 20 and actually have the return man field the ball at their own 25-30. Colt Brennan looked very indecisive. I don't know why, but he looked like he didn't know where to go with the ball. Maurice Mann had a drop and he is the one who let the ball go by on the Collins pick.

Overall I like what I saw from the 1st String, but after that, it gets nasty.

[shally]

good
betts, JC, OL depth, run defense, mcmullen, mason

bad
tryon, pass rush, reserve linebackers, smoothness of the offense under collins,
pass rush

ugly
frosts punts, KO return team, linebackers trying to cover backs or TE's

[TrueOracle]

good
betts, JC, OL depth, run defense, mcmullen, mason

bad
tryon, pass rush, reserve linebackers, smoothness of the offense under collins,
pass rush

ugly
frosts punts, KO return team, linebackers trying to cover backs or TE's

Hopefully we'll never see Collins the way we did last year.
Tryon is beginning to look like a 2 - 3year project (if 3 years he will be out of the league)
Frost will get axed so this ugliness will be gone

[Swirvi]

The Good - 1st string offense (minus Jon Jansen - don't know if he is just out of football shape or what, but the last 2 weeks he has been getting beaten a lot); Ladell Betts is looking really good - the only way Mason moves up the depth chart is if Betts gets traded and I just don't see that happening. I LOVE that JC isn't throwing to his check down every single play, and instead if actually finding an open receiver. Randle-El also gets special mention. I love this guy. Anyone else see him get excited to shake hands with Monk and Green last week? That was super classy.

The Bad - Tryon. 2 weeks in a row now the kid has allowed huge pass gains. He seems to be in position, but maybe just making bonehead moves. You have to admire his swagger, but I admire someone more when they back it up.

The Ugly - 2nd and 3rd string offense. Collins started to look good but then reminded everyone why he is a career backup. Brennan looked exactly how we thought he would look last week. He looked like a lost boy who didn't know what he was doing or who he was throwing to.

[Swirvi]

Another note: Jason Campbell has played in 4 total drives. 2 for touchdowns and 0 turnovers. I will take a 50% scoring success rate ANY day. Looking VERY good.

[Homer07]

GOOD: Ladell, Mason in the second half, the O-line, Justin Hamilton, Alfred Fincher, Zorny, the last 4th quarter drive that chewed up 10 minutes of clock, Swishy's swish from 46 yards, Reinhart stoning whoever lines up against him, the playcalling

BAD: Frost's zero-hangtime punt that allowed the return, some ify DB play

UGLY: two-consecutive timeouts which somehow didn't cost the Bills. Oh, the irony!

[LATrueRedskin]

Late to the party because I had to DVR it:

The Good - The running game. Clinton did OK, but Betts and Mason had their way with the Bills defense. Zorn went for it on 4th down in the redzone, and we converted easily. Nice job by the entire OLine (starters & depth) today.

The Bad - Justin Tryon. Kid still hasn't caught up to NFL speed, and his cover skills are lacking big time even when he catches up. Hopefully he steps it up, or he may be in danger of not even making the team.

The Ugly - Timeouts. We used all of our timeouts with over 9 minutes left in the first half. Not what you want to see during the regular season at all, and I hope Zorn and the offensive staff learned from that.

[BraveHeartFan]

GOOD ........... First String, Betts, MASON
Bad A .............. Turn overs
Bad B .............. Too many players not on the field due to injuries
Ugly ............. Preseaon ..:D

Good - Jason Campbell again REALLY impressed me. The guy really seems to be stepping it up and getting it.

Bad - The Mason fumble. That won't win you any points with the coach.

Ugly - Injuries and bad coverage teams but I can totally feel for you guys on that end because the Cowboys Punt coverage was none existant against the Chargers Saturday night. I hate bad special teams play.

[shally]

Good - Jason Campbell again REALLY impressed me. The guy really seems to be stepping it up and getting it.

Bad - The Mason fumble. That won't win you any points with the coach.

Ugly - Injuries and bad coverage teams but I can totally feel for you guys on that end because the Cowboys Punt coverage was none existant against the Chargers Saturday night. I hate bad special teams play.


special teams always suffer in preseason because a guy like danny smith has to use guys who wont even be on the team just to see what happens.. it doesnt take but one or 2 guys running out of their lanes to create an opportunity for havoc

[saratogan]

My first GOOD goes to Jim Zorn. So far (its still very early), the offense appears to be more fluid, consistent, and - most importantly - converting key 3rd downs and in red zone. The offense seems to be executing most plays properly. The play calling is quite effective in keeping the defense off stride.

Good: Campbell (for learning another system and having to change techniques) is executing plays well. If he continues to improve and things become more instinctive - he will impress even some of his detractors.

Good: O-line looks good, overall. Rinehart is awesome. Mason shows he can play. Yoder can, too. A couple of backup linemen are doing well, too.

BAD - I hate to say it, I like the guy, but Jansen is getting beat on pass defense too much. I hope it is just getting back into playing shape and instinctively will react quicker. Frost is average, and erratic. Tryon is in trouble. The pass rush is still not what we, the fans, want.

UUUUggllly - the defensive backfield is too unsettled currently. Too many first stringers still hurt, or not practicing full stride. The interception - was it the receivers fault or Collins. I suspect it is the former.

Overall: The offense seems to be quicker, more effective, able to use multiple targets, and is in control. The defense is unsettled (usually the defense is ahead of the offense early in pre-season). Why this is, I am not sure, but I wonder if with the number of injuries and many starters not having played is the cause. The special teams are doing very well.

[GreenspanDan]

zorn was definitely talking like the pic was collins' fault. he said he shouldn't have thrown it into all that traffic, that there was another receiver open, and that he could have also just thrown it away. he seemed particularly miffed that it happened on 1st down, when they didn't even "need" it.

[Cutter]

Good - OL. I'm not sure what you guys are watching, but I think Jansen got beat once. The rest of the plays he was pushing people around or impeeding their pass rush. Chad Rinehart has cured all my offensive line worries. I wasn't so impressed with him at the senior bowl practices, but the guy is playing very well (this time only at LT). I'd actually feel comfortable with him as a starter if someone goes down.

Ladell ran hard.


Bad: Jason Campbell played alright. For those of you that didn't watch live I understand why you're impressed with his performance. But for those of you that were actually there, you had to see he pretty consistently missed the open man further down field. His accuracy wasn't on either. He protected the ball and the offense was effective enough so I'm not calling him ugly, but he didn't put on a clinic like last week. All our QBs did it last week and none of them did it this week. That probably says something about the Colts.

Ugly: The Eagles fan that was two seats down my row. That girl was busted.

[Redskin4Life]

Bad: Jason Campbell played alright. For those of you that didn't watch live I understand why you're impressed with his performance. But for those of you that were actually there, you had to see he pretty consistently missed the open man further down field. His accuracy wasn't on either. He protected the ball and the offense was effective enough so I'm not calling him ugly, but he didn't put on a clinic like last week. All our QBs did it last week and none of them did it this week. That probably says something about the Colts.

Dude, what the heck are you watching? The QBs collectively threw 20/32 for 195 yrds (out of the 341 yrds we compiled on O). Campbell had only 3 incomplete passes and had a TD scoring drive (out of the two he was out there for). How is this performance any different than last week (other than the 5 extra passes JC got this game from the last)???

Stop hating just for hating's sake.

[Hr fan]

The Good - 1st string offense (minus Jon Jansen - don't know if he is just out of football shape or what, but the last 2 weeks he has been getting beaten a lot); Ladell Betts is looking really good - the only way Mason moves up the depth chart is if Betts gets traded and I just don't see that happening. I LOVE that JC isn't throwing to his check down every single play, and instead if actually finding an open receiver. Randle-El also gets special mention. I love this guy. Anyone else see him get excited to shake hands with Monk and Green last week? That was super classy.

The Bad - Tryon. 2 weeks in a row now the kid has allowed huge pass gains. He seems to be in position, but maybe just making bonehead moves. You have to admire his swagger, but I admire someone more when they back it up.

The Ugly - 2nd and 3rd string offense. Collins started to look good but then reminded everyone why he is a career backup. Brennan looked exactly how we thought he would look last week. He looked like a lost boy who didn't know what he was doing or who he was throwing to.

Your point about Jansen reflects my thinking also. Right now Reinhart is the better of the two.

Agree with most posters good, with the exception that Zorn is looking for consistency and only the 1st string (less JJ) is showing that.

Other than JJ the bad includes coverage teams. IMO the coaches are mixing and matching to get a line on individuals, leading to a ragged performance.

The ugly certainly includes Tryon (physically he is there but his technique is horrible) and Frost. Inside the 20 is good, but from the spots he was kicking from inside the 10 should be expected.

[Cutter]

Dude, what the heck are you watching? The QBs collectively threw 20/32 for 195 yrds (out of the 341 yrds we compiled on O). Campbell had only 3 incomplete passes and had a TD scoring drive (out of the two he was out there for). How is this performance any different than last week (other than the 5 extra passes JC got this game from the last)???

Stop hating just for hating's sake.

I'm watching the game. I watched it live and then I watched it DVR'd. Did you do that or just look at the stats?

Those 3 incompletes were bad. On all but one of his completions he had a better (deeper) WR to throw the ball at that was open. Last week I didn't have the luxury of being at the game. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his receiver selection. Hopefully the running game, defense and ST are so lights out that average QB performances like this will win games.

He went 5/5 with a TD. That's WAY better than this week. Collins and Brennan both had drops in their numbers too. You're viewing our boys with rose colored glasses.

[Redskin4Life]

I'm watching the game. I watched it live and then I watched it DVR'd. Did you do that or just look at the stats?

Those 3 incompletes were bad. On all but one of his completions he had a better (deeper) WR to throw the ball at that was open. Last week I didn't have the luxury of being at the game. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his receiver selection. Hopefully the running game, defense and ST are so lights out that average QB performances like this will win games.

He went 5/5 with a TD. That's WAY better than this week. Collins and Brennan both had drops in their numbers too. You're viewing our boys with rose colored glasses.
I did not have the benefit of living in the DC area to be able to see both games (live or on DVR). I did see the HOF game twice (live TV and DVR). So stats will have to do for the second game... as for the missed WRs, I can't argue with you on that but statiscally, the games are completely comparable:

Against the Colts, Campbell went 5 for 5 for 61 yrds (12.3 yrds/completion) and one drive that ended in a TD. All the QBs went 19/22 for 199 yrds (10.5 yrds/comp).

Against the Bills, Campbell went 7 for 10 for 71 yrds (10.1 per comp) with a drive ending in a TD. All the QBs went 20/32 for 195 yrds (9.75 yrds/comp).

Can you tell me the difference? Are you sure I have rose-colored glasses on or is your blind hatred of Campbell not allowing you to see facts?

[Lavar703]

Good - OL. I'm not sure what you guys are watching, but I think Jansen got beat once. The rest of the plays he was pushing people around or impeeding their pass rush. Chad Rinehart has cured all my offensive line worries. I wasn't so impressed with him at the senior bowl practices, but the guy is playing very well (this time only at LT). I'd actually feel comfortable with him as a starter if someone goes down.

Ladell ran hard.


Bad: Jason Campbell played alright. For those of you that didn't watch live I understand why you're impressed with his performance. But for those of you that were actually there, you had to see he pretty consistently missed the open man further down field. His accuracy wasn't on either. He protected the ball and the offense was effective enough so I'm not calling him ugly, but he didn't put on a clinic like last week. All our QBs did it last week and none of them did it this week. That probably says something about the Colts.

Ugly: The Eagles fan that was two seats down my row. That girl was busted.

Really, his accuracy is off? Jason has missed three passes in two games

[Lavar703]

I'm watching the game. I watched it live and then I watched it DVR'd. Did you do that or just look at the stats?

Those 3 incompletes were bad. On all but one of his completions he had a better (deeper) WR to throw the ball at that was open. Last week I didn't have the luxury of being at the game. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his receiver selection. Hopefully the running game, defense and ST are so lights out that average QB performances like this will win games.

He went 5/5 with a TD. That's WAY better than this week. Collins and Brennan both had drops in their numbers too. You're viewing our boys with rose colored glasses.

Do you really know anything about football or do you come on here just to cry and whine about everything. If your complaining about a 7-10 performance and no interceptions, not to mention he kept a drive alive despite penalties, than you obivously know nothing about playing QB. Campbell has looked more poised and has been way more accurate than I have ever seen him, and that includes his senior year at Auburn. If you cant see how much better he looks since working with Zorn than I really dont know what your watching.

[hail2skins]

I'm watching the game. I watched it live and then I watched it DVR'd. Did you do that or just look at the stats?

Those 3 incompletes were bad. On all but one of his completions he had a better (deeper) WR to throw the ball at that was open. Last week I didn't have the luxury of being at the game. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his receiver selection. Hopefully the running game, defense and ST are so lights out that average QB performances like this will win games.

He went 5/5 with a TD. That's WAY better than this week. Collins and Brennan both had drops in their numbers too. You're viewing our boys with rose colored glasses.I saw both and you're totally wrong. Also, I might add that Zorn didn't like the decision Collins made with his interception when he was going for the deeper route but had something going on elsewhere where the receiver was open. Also, another good point he made about Collins decision to throw that ball is that we did not need it. It was 1st and 10 and we didn't need.

Maybe Jason is making better decisions with the ball than Collins and you're just not happy he is throwing deep. He also has reads on each play and maybe, just maybe his read wasn't a deep to short one on that play.

[Fackler Flash]

I'm watching the game. I watched it live and then I watched it DVR'd. Did you do that or just look at the stats?

Those 3 incompletes were bad. On all but one of his completions he had a better (deeper) WR to throw the ball at that was open. Last week I didn't have the luxury of being at the game. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his receiver selection. Hopefully the running game, defense and ST are so lights out that average QB performances like this will win games.

He went 5/5 with a TD. That's WAY better than this week. Collins and Brennan both had drops in their numbers too. You're viewing our boys with rose colored glasses.

I didn't get to watch the game, I've only seen highlights, but after your post I went and watched them again. Out of 5 passes I saw from Campbell, 1 was incomplete and there was no one else remotely open. Tough pass, but every once in a while the defense wins. On one dump off that was still a 6+ yard gain, the Bills looked like they were double covering the receivers with over/under coverage. Maybe it was deep zones, I couldn't tell for sure, but both backs were wide open and the receivers had two men around them. Of those five passes I only saw one where there was a deeper receiver possibly open. He was not as open as the receiver that caught the ball, Randle El I think, but there might have been room to squeeze it in. And while I'm not a football coach by any means, it sure looked to me like the play was supposed to be thrown to an intermediate crossing route and let them catch and run. Isn't that the hallmark of the west coast offense, catch and run vs. deep pass every play?

Maybe we view things differently, but to me "better" is a complete pass not an interception trying to force it into a covered receiver who ran a deeper route. The little bit I do know about pass routes, is sometimes you send someone deep to open up the short to middle passing lanes. It appears to me you've forgotten this in your hate for Campbell.

[Cutter]

I did not have the benefit of living in the DC area to be able to see both games (live or on DVR). I did see the HOF game twice (live TV and DVR). So stats will have to do for the second game... as for the missed WRs, I can't argue with you on that but statiscally, the games are completely comparable:

Against the Colts, Campbell went 5 for 5 for 61 yrds (12.3 yrds/completion) and one drive that ended in a TD. All the QBs went 19/22 for 199 yrds (10.5 yrds/comp).

Against the Bills, Campbell went 7 for 10 for 71 yrds (10.1 per comp) with a drive ending in a TD. All the QBs went 20/32 for 195 yrds (9.75 yrds/comp).

Can you tell me the difference? Are you sure I have rose-colored glasses on or is your blind hatred of Campbell not allowing you to see facts?

What's the difference? %30, 1.8 yrds/comp, and a TD For Campbell. His rating was less than half for the 2nd game. The other QB's helped matters if you're talking about yards/attempt but they added in an INT. That's a big difference.

[Cutter]

Really, his accuracy is off? Jason has missed three passes in two games

Like I said, he was pretty good the first game. The 2nd game, not so much. Those 3 balls he missed were his fault. Of those he completed, one was perfect. One was good. The rest weren't placed in as good a spot as they should have. That's important when looking at YAC. Put it in the right spot and the receivers will look better. Numbers don't tell the whole story.

[Redskin4Life]

What's the difference? %30, 1.8 yrds/comp, and a TD For Campbell. His rating was less than half for the 2nd game. The other QB's helped matters if you're talking about yards/attempt but they added in an INT. That's a big difference.
Campbell went 100% completions to 70% and you're complaining? He threw for a TD in one game but handed off for one in another game and you're complaining? The QBs as a whole went from a 86% completion game to a 63% game and you're complaining? Cutter, who are you a fan of? Obviously you're not a Skins fan.

[Cutter]

I saw both and you're totally wrong. Also, I might add that Zorn didn't like the decision Collins made with his interception when he was going for the deeper route but had something going on elsewhere where the receiver was open. Also, another good point he made about Collins decision to throw that ball is that we did not need it. It was 1st and 10 and we didn't need.

Maybe Jason is making better decisions with the ball than Collins and you're just not happy he is throwing deep. He also has reads on each play and maybe, just maybe his read wasn't a deep to short one on that play.

I'm not promoting Collins or anyone else above Campbell. My counter was to everyone fawning over JC's performance which wasn't spectacular. So far this off season JC has out played TC.

[Cutter]

I didn't get to watch the game, I've only seen highlights, but after your post I went and watched them again. Out of 5 passes I saw from Campbell, 1 was incomplete and there was no one else remotely open. Tough pass, but every once in a while the defense wins. On one dump off that was still a 6+ yard gain, the Bills looked like they were double covering the receivers with over/under coverage. Maybe it was deep zones, I couldn't tell for sure, but both backs were wide open and the receivers had two men around them. Of those five passes I only saw one where there was a deeper receiver possibly open. He was not as open as the receiver that caught the ball, Randle El I think, but there might have been room to squeeze it in. And while I'm not a football coach by any means, it sure looked to me like the play was supposed to be thrown to an intermediate crossing route and let them catch and run. Isn't that the hallmark of the west coast offense, catch and run vs. deep pass every play?

Maybe we view things differently, but to me "better" is a complete pass not an interception trying to force it into a covered receiver who ran a deeper route. The little bit I do know about pass routes, is sometimes you send someone deep to open up the short to middle passing lanes. It appears to me you've forgotten this in your hate for Campbell.

How can you see the receivers on DVR? Do you have coach tape or something other than broadcast?

All else the same I'd say the deeper guy is the better choice. While I was watching in person Campbell seemed to take the shorter guy in choices. I don't think they're being taught to throw to the short guy over the deep guy - all else the same. Most times it was a matter of 5-15 yards. But that stuff adds up.

[Lavar703]

Like I said, he was pretty good the first game. The 2nd game, not so much. Those 3 balls he missed were his fault. Of those he completed, one was perfect. One was good. The rest weren't placed in as good a spot as they should have. That's important when looking at YAC. Put it in the right spot and the receivers will look better. Numbers don't tell the whole story.

Please tell me how many QBs that you have seen play, have thrown all perfect passes by the second pre-season game. This will all be over when Campbell has a good season. Your going to be on this website talking about how great of a player he is and how you knew he would be awesome. You have got into quite a few arguments on this site because you bitch about everything, yet your knowledge of football seems very slim. If you think what were seeing out of Campbell by the second pre-season game is a bad thing than you sir have hung out with Harold and Kumar one to many times.

[Redskin4Life]

I'm not promoting Collins or anyone else above Campbell. My counter was to everyone fawning over JC's performance which wasn't spectacular. So far this off season JC has out played TC.
Cutter, please tell me the QB JC should be compared to or emulate stat wise so I can get a better understanding of what you expect from a starting QB... a 108 QB rating for his second game is pretty good to me.

[Cutter]

Campbell went 100% completions to 70% and you're complaining? He threw for a TD in one game but handed off for one in another game and you're complaining? The QBs as a whole went from a 86% completion game to a 63% game and you're complaining? Cutter, who are you a fan of? Obviously you're not a Skins fan.

He placed the ball better in the first game. It's pointed out by the %30 drop in completion percentage and driven home by what I saw in person.

He's a QB. A thrown, 15+ yard TD is FAR more impressive than 4 hand offs in a row up the middle. If I'm looking at QB's, I'm more interested in his throwing than his handing off. But Kudus for keeping the handoffs under control.

The QB's as a whole had a better day against the Colts than they did against the Bills. It's an honest and obvious observation. Would you say that's because the Colts suck less than the Bills on Defense or are you going to tell me it's because they were on fire in Canton but only luke warm here at FedEx or what? The why is a far more productive line of conversation.

This is pre-season guys. Can't you evaluate a player(s) honestly? Look at what they do and how they do it. Then let's talk about how it translate into the regular season when it counts. Right now, I'm seeing JC as our best QB, but that he'll be average if he plays more like he did against the Bills and less like he did against the Colts.

[Cutter]

Please tell me how many QBs that you have seen play, have thrown all perfect passes by the second pre-season game. This will all be over when Campbell has a good season. Your going to be on this website talking about how great of a player he is and how you knew he would be awesome. You have got into quite a few arguments on this site because you bitch about everything, yet your knowledge of football seems very slim. If you think what were seeing out of Campbell by the second pre-season game is a bad thing than you sir have hung out with Harold and Kumar one to many times.

Check the bold - that sir most def. won't happen. I'll be buying another HR member steak with a giant S.E.G. on my face. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Temper your enthusiam. He's shown us regression rather than progression from the first game to the 2nd game. Again, we're better off talking about why than burrying our heads in the sand and saying it didn't happen.

[Cutter]

Cutter, please tell me the QB JC should be compared to or emulate stat wise so I can get a better understanding of what you expect from a starting QB... a 108 QB rating for his second game is pretty good to me.

Stats don't tell the whole story.

[Cutter]

And to clear up earlier stats:
Rating:157.08/90 (Drop of 67.08 - neary %43 )
Comp %: 100/70 (%30 drop)
Yards per ATTEMPT: 12.2/7.1 (a MASSIVE drop of 5.1 - nearly %42)

Why?

[flave1969]

How can you see the receivers on DVR? Do you have coach tape or something other than broadcast?

.

I have the games on DVR from this weeks and just looked at it again. You can see exactly what the Receivers are doing from the replays, it isnt hard to see at all who went where from the replays at all.

I just dont get why you continue to assert this theory, it is utter nonsense.

[Lavar703]

Check the bold - that sir most def. won't happen. I'll be buying another HR member steak with a giant S.E.G. on my face. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Temper your enthusiam. He's shown us regression rather than progression from the first game to the 2nd game. Again, we're better off talking about why than burrying our heads in the sand and saying it didn't happen.

Did you expect him to go 10-10 in this game, because really thats the only way he could have made it better for you. The pass to Moss over the middle was right on the money, as was the pass to Randle El. Hes learning a new offense and has been extremely impressive to say the least. Your just nitpicking and you know it. This is a classic case of "complaining for the sake of complaining".

[GreenspanDan]

i think it's a mistake to read too much, good or bad, into a handful of passes.

[Lavar703]

And to clear up earlier stats:
Rating:157.08/90 (Drop of 67.08 - neary %43 )
Comp %: 100/70 (%30 drop)
Yards per ATTEMPT: 12.2/7.1 (a MASSIVE drop of 5.1 - nearly %42)

Why?

What your failing to mention is regardless of percentage drops, in his limited time he has lead two scoring drives.

[Lavar703]

Stats don't tell the whole story.

Really? because you made an argument that Brennan was better than Campbell due to his better stats in college. Ill post the link to the page if you need me to.

[akhhorus]

Really? because you made an argument that Brennan was better than Campbell due to his better stats in college. Ill post the link to the page if you need me to.

Is anyone surprised that Cutter would find a way to dump on Campbell? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[Cutter]

I have the games on DVR from this weeks and just looked at it again. You can see exactly what the Receivers are doing from the replays, it isnt hard to see at all who went where from the replays at all.

I just dont get why you continue to assert this theory, it is utter nonsense.

Your DVR must be better than mine. I can't see all the WR routes.

[Cutter]

LOL@Lavar - whatever dude.

[akhhorus]

LOL@Lavar - whatever dude.

Your assertion (http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1103618&postcount=31)

Then we pointed out that college stats don't matter. Then you thanked me for providing those stats, not commenting on the probative value of them, and tried to compare Brennan to Brady or Romo because of his stats(and obviously missed the point we were making with the college stats or knew you couldn't make any point without sounding really idiotic, and personally, i think thats the point in which you just became a troll trying to pick a fight).

Edit: looking at the thread, your most ridiculous attempt to try and pimp for Brennan was this...

Link (http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1103732&postcount=72)

Moss and Cooley have been to Hawaii - Brennan played there too! How many times has Campbell played there?

So, if Campbell flew out there for a preseason game, he's as good a QB as Colt could be?

[Keino]

Your DVR must be better than mine. I can't see all the WR routes.

No, he simply isn't blinded by an agenda. It must burn you up to see Campbell looking so good....

[silverspring]

He placed the ball better in the first game. It's pointed out by the %30 drop in completion percentage and driven home by what I saw in person.

He's a QB. A thrown, 15+ yard TD is FAR more impressive than 4 hand offs in a row up the middle. If I'm looking at QB's, I'm more interested in his throwing than his handing off. But Kudus for keeping the handoffs under control.

The QB's as a whole had a better day against the Colts than they did against the Bills. It's an honest and obvious observation. Would you say that's because the Colts suck less than the Bills on Defense or are you going to tell me it's because they were on fire in Canton but only luke warm here at FedEx or what? The why is a far more productive line of conversation.

This is pre-season guys. Can't you evaluate a player(s) honestly? Look at what they do and how they do it. Then let's talk about how it translate into the regular season when it counts. Right now, I'm seeing JC as our best QB, but that he'll be average if he plays more like he did against the Bills and less like he did against the Colts.

Stats don't tell the whole story.

Yet you seem to be touting his drop off to 70% vs 100% the game before as such important numbers over and over. If my qb throws a 70% completion rate i am considering that a lot higher then just ok even if he isn't hitting all the downfield receivers.

But these numbers are so insignificant, neither them consist of even close to one half of a game of play. I am much more interested in the fact that he is able consistently to get into a rhythm and score when only getting to play 2 drives. That is pretty impressive. The fact that the whole offense is executing smoothly is impressive. He has a new offense and hasn't made any stupid mistakes yet, that is impressive. And it is just a bonus that our offense is walking down the field and scoring points.

You need to put this in context. He is giving us debut of a new offense which he just learned. If anything we should have all expected the offense to have taken a step backward not forward at this point in the season. I still expect our offense to struggle come the first couple games of regular season. But in addition to this zorn has made it clear that every game they are adding more new wrinkles to the offense, which means this week he had to deal with more nuances then last week.

I am sure he is missing some opportunities but if this play is just "alright" I will take an alright qb any day of the week. You seem to expect a Tom Brady performance in order to give him an A grade, which is just absurd.

All in all, your argument loses all credibility when you make ridiculous attacks on JC given that our pre-season offense looks crisper then it has in years. Feel free to attack him when he warrants attacking, but giving him a bad grade for last week is just absurd.

[shane88]

I try not to get dragged into these threads where a poster simply has an agenda but,....

He's a QB. A thrown, 15+ yard TD is FAR more impressive than 4 hand offs in a row up the middle. If I'm looking at QB's, I'm more interested in his throwing than his handing off. But Kudus for keeping the handoffs under control.

And just how is THIS Campbells fault????
I guess, (in your mind and eyes) you being there to see it "LIVE" makes you the extreme end-all be-all of football knowledge! I would wager, Cutter, that there are probably close to 70,000 others who ALSO saw this game "LIVE" and would beg to differ with your "logic"!!!

[colkurtz]

In his (limited) play Campbell has been impressive. He's learned a new offense; changed and improved his stance and throwing motion. His QB rating has improved from a mid-70s level to 125.

Yes, it just two games. Yes, he's only playing a few sets. But I see real concrete progress / maturity and the tutelage of Zorn here. I see some very good play calling by Zorn. I'm optimistic with what I've seen for our offense and the first string.

[shane88]

The things I've seen that stand out to me are his quicker dropbacks and most times as soon as he sets his feet, the ball is out and he's really zipping it with some authority. Sure, he's gonna have some hiccups, but ALL QB's do. I'd say there's vast improvement in JC since last year. I'm not ready to anoint him as the next best thing since sliced bread, but there's reason to be excited about his future as our QB.

[Patrick]

The things I've seen that stand out to me are his quicker dropbacks and most times as soon as he sets his feet, the ball is out and he's really zipping it with some authority. Sure, he's gonna have some hiccups, but ALL QB's do. I'd say there's vast improvement in JC since last year. I'm not ready to anoint him as the next best thing since sliced bread, but there's reason to be excited about his future as our QB.

Good observations and excellent points. I couldn’t agree more …………… BUT it appears that there are people who feel that until JC sustain a 154 QB rating as well as lead the league in every QB category – he’ll be nothing less than a backup. ………………. :rolleyes:

[Redskin4Life]

Stats don't tell the whole story.


And to clear up earlier stats:
Rating:157.08/90 (Drop of 67.08 - neary %43 )
Comp %: 100/70 (%30 drop)
Yards per ATTEMPT: 12.2/7.1 (a MASSIVE drop of 5.1 - nearly %42)

Why?

Be consistent man. If stats don't tell the whole story, why are you nitpicking about the "30% drop off" in completion percentage? And of course the yards per attempt stat is going to look better in HOF game since is COMPLETED ALL OF HIS PASSES?!?!?

BTW, the QB rating I posted was based off of this website:
http://www.primecomputing.com/

[akhhorus]

Be consistent man. If stats don't tell the whole story, why are you nitpicking about the "30% drop off" in completion percentage? And of course the yards per attempt stat is going to look better in HOF game since is COMPLETED ALL OF HIS PASSES?!?!?

BTW, the QB rating I posted was based off of this website:
http://www.primecomputing.com/

What's even funnier is that his boy, Colt Brennan had a 40% drop off in completion percentage, but I didn't see any criticism of him performance from Cutter.

[Redskin4Life]

What's even funnier is that his boy, Colt Brennan had a 40% drop off in completion percentage, but I didn't see any criticism of him performance from Cutter.
Against 3rd stringers no less... unlike Campbell playing against the first stringers.

[Cutter]

He didn't earn an A. He earned a C this week. Let's hope for better. I'm not attacking the guy - that's how well he played.

Shane, handing it off wasn't his fault. When grading the QB, give him props for throwing it. I don't give him ANY credit for handing it to someone else to score.

I'm not ready to anoint him as the next best thing since sliced bread, but there's reason to be excited about his future as our QB.

That's what people should be saying instead of fawning over him endlessly.

I'm totally consistent Redskin4Life. My stat comparison were a counter to "what's the difference between stat group A and B?". Besides, they do tell a partial story. There was a marked drop in his performance both on the field and in the stat book from week 1 to week 2. Don't bury your head in the sand on this. Try explaining why his play dropped off instead of denying it happened and hating on me for pointing it out. Can you pin it on anyone but JC?

[hail2skins]

How can you see the receivers on DVR? Do you have coach tape or something other than broadcast?

All else the same I'd say the deeper guy is the better choice. While I was watching in person Campbell seemed to take the shorter guy in choices. I don't think they're being taught to throw to the short guy over the deep guy - all else the same. Most times it was a matter of 5-15 yards. But that stuff adds up.You do realize that long routes are sometimes used to clear out the middle of the field for short and intermediate routes don't you. Have you not heard that Zorn says some routes are decoys. The first TD JC threw had Moss going long. Why, to clear out the safety and corner. Randle-El runs a pattern taking advantage of Moss' efforts. The deep ball isn't always the first read.

[Keino]

He didn't earn an A. He earned a C this week. Let's hope for better. I'm not attacking the guy - that's how well he played.

Shane, handing it off wasn't his fault. When grading the QB, give him props for throwing it. I don't give him ANY credit for handing it to someone else to score.

That's what people should be saying instead of fawning over him endlessly.

I'm totally consistent Redskin4Life. My stat comparison were a counter to "what's the difference between stat group A and B?". Besides, they do tell a partial story. There was a marked drop in his performance both on the field and in the stat book from week 1 to week 2. Don't bury your head in the sand on this. Try explaining why his play dropped off instead of denying it happened and hating on me for pointing it out. Can you pin it on anyone but JC?


Im sorry but this is complete and utter BS. You are consistently inconsistent. Unless you expect perfection, citing a 30% drop in completion percentage when 70% completion percentage would have been #1 in the NFL in that category last year is absurd. In addition a QB rating of 90 would have him ranked #9 in the league last year.

You don't give the QB props for leading a drive down the field and overcoming multiple penalties and converting 3rd downs? Seems to me you have made arguments advancing the notion that Collins was the biggest reason for our winning streak last year. So how exactly are you being consistent? Oh yea, you are consistent in your looking for an excuse to dump on Campbell and are blinded by an anti-Campbell agenda.

Sorry, but 70% Completion, no Turnovers and a 90 Passer Rating is an "A" effort. Each would have him in the top 1/4 of his position.

You cannot be serious.

[akhhorus]

Im sorry but this is complete and utter BS. You are consistently inconsistent. Unless you expect perfection, citing a 30% drop in completion percentage when 70% completion percentage would have been #1 in the NFL in that category last year is absurd. In addition a QB rating of 90 would have him ranked #9 in the league last year.

You don't give the QB props for leading a drive down the field and overcoming multiple penalties and converting 3rd downs? Seems to me you have made arguments advancing the notion that Collins was the biggest reason for our winning streak last year. So how exactly are you being consistent? Oh yea, you are consistent in your looking for an excuse to dump on Campbell and are blinded by an anti-Campbell agenda.

Sorry, but 70% Completion, no Turnovers and a 90 Passer Rating is an "A" effort. Each would have him in the top 1/4 of his position.

You cannot be serious.

Frankly, Cutter has to be trolling on this point. There is just no way that even a poster with an agenda would come on here and post the things he does about Campbell. I cannot believe that Cutter actually believes this inane spin he's putting on it and I think he's just trolling for fights.

[akhhorus]

He didn't earn an A. He earned a C this week. Let's hope for better. I'm not attacking the guy - that's how well he played.

Shane, handing it off wasn't his fault. When grading the QB, give him props for throwing it. I don't give him ANY credit for handing it to someone else to score.

That's what people should be saying instead of fawning over him endlessly.

I'm totally consistent Redskin4Life. My stat comparison were a counter to "what's the difference between stat group A and B?". Besides, they do tell a partial story. There was a marked drop in his performance both on the field and in the stat book from week 1 to week 2. Don't bury your head in the sand on this. Try explaining why his play dropped off instead of denying it happened and hating on me for pointing it out. Can you pin it on anyone but JC?

You're intentionally avoiding what the posters said to you, both by posting irrelevant comments to what they said or ignoring them.

[Cutter]

He wasn't that good against the Bills Keino.

Hail2Skins, yes I realize that. However, when you consistently see a guy pick the shorter guy over the deeper, open guy, it leads me to believe that he's decided where to put the ball before the snap. He's not reading the defense, he's getting lucky against vanilla. Let's see how he does when the defense is scheming. Remember that pick against the Bucs? Granted, that's just a concern and we won't know if it's accurate or right until the regular season. But the placement of the ball problem is real. He threw one excellent pass (to Moss) and one that was pretty good (to ARE) and the rest of his completions the WRs had to work. He threw a slant that was just ugly. Think the new WCO offense calls many of those?

Maybe you guys can't see it because you're worshipping at the altar of JC. He's given us no reason to think he's the 2nd coming. At best, we have hope he's developing into something. That's poop though because he's in his 4th season. We need him excellent now.

[akhhorus]

He wasn't that good against the Bills Keino.

Hail2Skins, yes I realize that. However, when you consistently see a guy pick the shorter guy over the deeper, open guy, it leads me to believe that he's decided where to put the ball before the snap. He's not reading the defense, he's getting lucky against vanilla. Let's see how he does when the defense is scheming. Remember that pick against the Bucs? Granted, that's just a concern and we won't know if it's accurate or right until the regular season. But the placement of the ball problem is real. He threw one excellent pass (to Moss) and one that was pretty good (to ARE) and the rest of his completions the WRs had to work. He threw a slant that just ugly. Think the new WCO offense calls many of those?

Maybe you guys can't see it because you're worshipping at the altar of JC. He's given us no reason to think he's the 2nd coming. At best, we have hope he's developing into something. That's poop though because he's in his 4th season. We need him excellent now.

Yeah, he just looks substantially better than he did last year, but because he missed 4 passes versus his 5-5 performance in the opener doesn't remotely mean that he's as bad as you desperately want him to be(again, you didn't mention Brennan's drop in completions....). Cutter, do us all a favor and start some Anti-Campbell blog so as to spare us from this campaign of yours. I do hope you have fun rooting against the Skins just to break your arm patting yourself on the back though.

[fent]

anyone else get the feeling that to defend Cutter in Madden you can just play a deep prevent zone and completely ignore the first 15 yards from the LOS?

[Keino]

He wasn't that good against the Bills Keino.


He was good. He simply wasn't perfect. I suppose he set the bar too high for himself against the Colts, but you are insane or just dim if you think completing 70% of ones passes (and I clearly demonstrated that percentage would have led the league last year) and a 90 rating isn't A.) a Substantial improvement over how he looked last year and B.) is not an "A" effort.




Maybe you guys can't see it because you're worshipping at the altar of JC. He's given us no reason to think he's the 2nd coming. At best, we have hope he's developing into something. That's poop though because he's in his 4th season. We need him excellent now.


This is just asinine. Sorry the Facts don't jibe with your distorted view of reality. Nobody has crowned him the 2nd coming and ALL who disagree with you have expressed that he has a lot of improvement to make. He seems to be making those strides and your 4th season comment is equally asinine. It has been shown to you over and over that holding a clip board for an entire season cannot be counted against him and entering his 4th season he has all of 20 starts to judge by.

[hail2skins]

He wasn't that good against the Bills Keino.

Hail2Skins, yes I realize that. However, when you consistently see a guy pick the shorter guy over the deeper, open guy, it leads me to believe that he's decided where to put the ball before the snap. He's not reading the defense, he's getting lucky against vanilla. Let's see how he does when the defense is scheming. Remember that pick against the Bucs? Granted, that's just a concern and we won't know if it's accurate or right until the regular season. But the placement of the ball problem is real. He threw one excellent pass (to Moss) and one that was pretty good (to ARE) and the rest of his completions the WRs had to work. He threw a slant that was just ugly. Think the new WCO offense calls many of those?

Maybe you guys can't see it because you're worshipping at the altar of JC. He's given us no reason to think he's the 2nd coming. At best, we have hope he's developing into something. That's poop though because he's in his 4th season. We need him excellent now.Your knack for ignorance on football is disturbing the force. The way you see it is that every pass should be long. WRONG. You then say he's not reading the defense. This is just absurd. You don't know what the safeties are gonna do at the line of scrimmage. They give you one look, then another and possibly another. When a coach calls a play, he's expecting to see a certain defense and he's trying to exploit it. He's not trying to throw bombs all day. I also take it you haven't heard Jason Campbell explain certain plays in interviews. He normally starts out we were expecting this defense......bla bla bla. If he sees something different, he has the option of changing the play.
I'm beginning to believe others who think you are trolling because someone with any football knowledge would acknowledge he's looking good in the new passing attack and that he will make mistakes.

[Cutter]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.

[akhhorus]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.

So, I guess you'll stay consistent(ha!) and criticize Brennan as enthusiastically since he had a 45% drop in his completion percentage?

[fent]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.

can you seriously tell us what you'd like to see out of him that would have made his 70% completion percentage and 90 rating a passing grade? how about explainging why leading a scoring drive that was 20 yards longer than it had to be isn't a passing grade. seriously, you want perfection from the kid. it's pre-season, we're learning a new offense, and he's moving the offense almost effortlessly without a hard running portis and with less of the playbook than we'll be utilizing in the regular season. there's nothing about our review of his play against the bills that is overly optimistic or "on his jock" and we all recognize taht he still has room to grow. the kid had numbers that would have put him in the top tier of passers in the league had he performed that way over the course of last season, you failed him in your review of the game and WE'RE the ones that have a distorted view of what happened? we get it that you hate the kid for whatever reason you've come up with...maybe you REALLY wanted someone else with that pick, who knows...but seriously...what do you want from the kid after 2 preseason games in a new offense?

[Keino]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.

Hey great counter-argument there.

Feel free to demonstrate why a 70% completion rate for a career 53% passer is not impressive and while you are at it, feel free to demonstrate the years that below average QBs posted a passer rating of 90 or more.

Simply repeating something over and over again is no argument. You have not clearly laid out what exactly wasn't impressive besides the claim that he opted for a safer receiving option when someone was open down the field.....of course after claiming to no be able to see the routes via DVR. If your only evidence of being unimpressive is how he compared to his previous perfect outing, then I will take that level of un-impressiveness all year long, because it would surely land him in Hawaii in February.

[AliBabba]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.
http://www.laid-back.be/download/visuals/pony.jpg

[Keino]

Keks anyone? Colonel?

[akhhorus]

Keks anyone? Colonel?

keks?

[Keino]

keks?

Alibaba posted a picture of Keks when one of our Poster from accross the pond used it to refer to pants. The picture was hilarious.......

[redskin_rich]

keks?

Panties!


(Jeez, this thread is turning into the Redskins Insider comment section)

[akhhorus]

Panties!


(Jeez, this thread is turning into the Redskins Insider comment section)

Alibaba posted a picture of Keks when one of our Poster from accross the pond used it to refer to pants. The picture was hilarious.......


Two people separated by a common language lol.

[Keino]

Two people separated by a common language lol.

I poorly attempted two inside jokes on one post.......

[Lavar703]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.

Honestly? You made a Colt Brennan thread after his first preseason game and proclaimed him God. Nobody is on Jason Campbells jock, were just seeing a change in his game, he seems to be much farther along than he was last year and its great to see that. You have no argument and you know it, but you just wont give up and its pathetic.

[AliBabba]

I poorly attempted two inside jokes on one post.......
I don't think it was so poor, I got a chuckle

Rich -- this isn't Redskins Insider yet, nobody has cursed the "anons" or argued about the virtues of chastity vs mass genocide of housecats

[Gravy]

Why is there even a question about JC's performance? This guy is clearly the leader of this offense and he looks more poised than ever. Why is there always that one person who speaks when they clearly have nothing to speak about unless they just want a butt whoopin'.

[akhhorus]

Why is there even a question about JC's performance? This guy is clearly the leader of this offense and he looks more poised than ever. Why is there always that one person who speaks when they clearly have nothing to speak about unless they just want a butt whoopin'.

Answer: Cutter hates Jason Campbell because he thinks Campbell kidnapped his family a few years ago(Thats the most plausible explanation I can think of to explain his unending hatred of #17 in your program).

[colkurtz]

I don't think any long-term poster in this thread has had a man-crush on Jason Campbell. In fact, most have said just the opposite - that this is his make-or-break season.

Jason has definetly improved his mechanics and is playing his best pre-season ball to date. Don't know if he is the future franchise QB for the next decade but there is no doubt that he is ramping it up and he looks pretty good so far. Considering the QB carousel we've had the last dozen years, I'm encouraged. Some just aren't happy unless they see a Tom Brady-like performance

[Cutter]

You guys sound like women.

I found his ball placement and WR choices lacking. He didn't choose "safer" options. He choose shorter options. The deeper guy was open. Out of ten balls, only 1 was perfect and 1 was good. The others were thanks to the WRs being on point. As I've stated before, that's going to hurt them in the YAC department and crush them on YPA.

I've yet to pummel the kid. I've called him average to acceptable. That's down from pretty damn good from the week before. Go back to page 1 and re-read everyone gushing over his performance. It's not fitting except for you tool bags that refuse to be objective.

Look at him like you'd rank a college player - exactly how Akh and the lads counter all the CB hype - it's not what he does but how he does it. You're giving him credit for all the other players on the team. You're giving him credit where credit isn't due. So get off his jock. He wasn't that good against the Bills.

[hail2skins]

You guys sound like women.

I found his ball placement and WR choices lacking. He didn't choose "safer" options. He choose shorter options. The deeper guy was open. Out of ten balls, only 1 was perfect and 1 was good. The others were thanks to the WRs being on point. As I've stated before, that's going to hurt them in the YAC department and crush them on YPA.

I've yet to pummel the kid. I've called him average to acceptable. That's down from pretty damn good from the week before. Go back to page 1 and re-read everyone gushing over his performance. It's not fitting except for you tool bags that refuse to be objective.

Look at him like you'd rank a college player - exactly how Akh and the lads counter all the CB hype - it's not what he does but how he does it. You're giving him credit for all the other players on the team. You're giving him credit where credit isn't due. So get off his jock. He wasn't that good against the Bills.There you go with the deeper guy was open. Collins tried that and look what it got him. An interception. Also, it was 1st and 10 then and we didn't need it. It was a bad decision on his part. Don't believe me, go to Redskins.com and listen to Zorn's Monday presser. You think it's all about slinging it long and that is foolish.

Colt looked good in game #1 and sucked in game #2 but you're not talking about that are you. In pop warner leagues, the kid QB's know not to go long on every play. Like I said and you fail to comprehend, the long route is a decoy on some plays used to clear out an area.

If needed, we can recommend some reading for you to catch up on football X's and O's.

Also, the only person here sounding like a woman is yourself and the women on this board have more football knowledge than you.

[Keino]

You guys sound like women.

I found his ball placement and WR choices lacking. He didn't choose "safer" options. He choose shorter options. The deeper guy was open. Out of ten balls, only 1 was perfect and 1 was good. The others were thanks to the WRs being on point. As I've stated before, that's going to hurt them in the YAC department and crush them on YPA.

I've yet to pummel the kid. I've called him average to acceptable. That's down from pretty damn good from the week before. Go back to page 1 and re-read everyone gushing over his performance. It's not fitting except for you tool bags that refuse to be objective.

Look at him like you'd rank a college player - exactly how Akh and the lads counter all the CB hype - it's not what he does but how he does it. You're giving him credit for all the other players on the team. You're giving him credit where credit isn't due. So get off his jock. He wasn't that good against the Bills.

The facts just don't support anything you are saying. Last week he wasn't pretty good he was perfect. This week, he wasn't average he was above average. Passer Rating and Completion Percentage are indicators of the point you are harping on the most.....accuracy, and yet you brought a drop in both of those statistical indicators as an argument against Campbell's performance against the Bills while conveniently ignoring the fact that the numbers he did post in those areas (70% completion/90 Passer Rating) would be Top 10 in the NFL performance. You brought these stats up, so dismissing them as irrelevant is not close to being intellectually honest on your part, but then again, what else is new?

Finally, I challenge you to find a post made by any of those disputing your ridiculous positions or claims gushing over Campbell or being on his jock. Nobody but you would look at his performance as bad and when you fall back on comparing it to the previous week where he was perfect, you lose what little credibility you had. There is only one tool bag not being objective in this thread and his name rhymes with Mutter.

[Cutter]

The deeper guy was open. Collins saw two guys. A good throw to either of them and they probably catch it. On that play, I saw the guy on the other side of the field that Zorn was talking about and didn't understand why he threw it until I watched it on DVR. Had the shorter WR gone for it instead of pulling his arms back away, there's a good chance it's a reception. Had he thrown it on the far side of the field by the one deep reciever, and thrown a good ball, it'd have been a better throw because we would have YAC'd them. ANYWAY, I never excused the bad throw. My point was not about the other QB's. It's about Campbell not playing so well.

I mentioned ALL of the QB's taking a step back. I also questioned why. Was it the defense? Was it the opposition? But no... you just want to brand me a hater because you think JC is awesome.

Try coming off your high horse, reading what I wrote and compare it to what you actually saw. You do that and I'll keep studying my X's and O's. Or... keep bringing up things from other threads that don't apply, make things personal and collectively fail to look at JC objectively. That's fine, but it's not productive.

[hail2skins]

The deeper guy was open. Collins saw two guys. A good throw to either of them and they probably catch it. On that play, I saw the guy on the other side of the field that Zorn was talking about and didn't understand why he threw it until I watched it on DVR. Had the shorter WR gone for it instead of pulling his arms back away, there's a good chance it's a reception. Had he thrown it on the far side of the field by the one deep reciever, and thrown a good ball, it'd have been a better throw because we would have YAC'd them. ANYWAY, I never excused the bad throw. My point was not about the other QB's. It's about Campbell not playing so well.

I mentioned ALL of the QB's taking a step back. I also questioned why. Was it the defense? Was it the opposition? But no... you just want to brand me a hater because you think JC is awesome.

Try coming off your high horse, reading what I wrote and compare it to what you actually saw. You do that and I'll keep studying my X's and O's. Or... keep bringing up things from other threads that don't apply, make things personal and collectively fail to look at JC objectively. That's fine, but it's not productive.If I'm not mistaken and I'll have to look at it again, McMullen was the deeper guy and the pass was intended for him. That's why the shorter guy didn't go for it.

We are reading what you wrote Mr. ColtIsMyHero. You get off of your high horse. People use your older threads as a reference for understanding you. They also use it to prove a point and several have already. You can't just come here and say anything you want and don't expect it to be question and/or challenged. That's what we're all about.

[Keino]

The deeper guy was open. Collins saw two guys. A good throw to either of them and they probably catch it. On that play, I saw the guy on the other side of the field that Zorn was talking about and didn't understand why he threw it until I watched it on DVR. Had the shorter WR gone for it instead of pulling his arms back away, there's a good chance it's a reception. Had he thrown it on the far side of the field by the one deep reciever, and thrown a good ball, it'd have been a better throw because we would have YAC'd them. ANYWAY, I never excused the bad throw. My point was not about the other QB's. It's about Campbell not playing so well.

I mentioned ALL of the QB's taking a step back. I also questioned why. Was it the defense? Was it the opposition? But no... you just want to brand me a hater because you think JC is awesome.

Try coming off your high horse, reading what I wrote and compare it to what you actually saw. You do that and I'll keep studying my X's and O's. Or... keep bringing up things from other threads that don't apply, make things personal and collectively fail to look at JC objectively. That's fine, but it's not productive.

Because objectively speaking (assuming you are remotely familiar with what that term means) nobody could look at Campbell's performance on 2 drives and then see the stats after the fact and conclude that Campbell had a bad game, as you have asserted here. He took a step back....from perfection.

You are the only one seeming to lack objectivity.....

[shane88]

Get off his jock boys. He wasn't impressive against the Bills.

Heck, what are we all thinking???? Obviously all of us here at HR are wrong and Cutter is "right"!!!!:honor:

Give it a rest, dude.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I personally feel that the game against the Bills took him out of the Pro_Bowl voting. He may or may not have thrown to the receiver every time that would have yielded the most yards per catch in his 2nd pre-season game in a new pro offensive scheme.

[Slobberknocker]

Alfred Fincher and Justin Hamilton get my HOF vote.

[Lacquer Head]

He went 5/5 with a TD. That's WAY better than this week.

So unless he's totally perfect he's no good? Nice hater logic.

By the way, just because you "study the Xs and Os" doesn't mean you are making any sense at all right now.

[flave1969]

On that play, I saw the guy on the other side of the field that Zorn was talking about and didn't understand why he threw it until I watched it on DVR.


I thought you could not see things you needed to on DVR.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I'm sorry guys, but Cutter is right. 70% completion percentage is simply not acceptable for a football player... Campbell, truly, sucks... not as much as Joe Montana who had 63.2% or Tom Brady with 63%, but he sucks. I mean, come on! Look at his rating from the last game: 90! That's just 10.1 points higher than John Elway.

How can anyone defend Campbell with these kind of facts is just beyond me.

[greatest2]

Good - OL. I'm not sure what you guys are watching, but I think Jansen got beat once. The rest of the plays he was pushing people around or impeeding their pass rush. Chad Rinehart has cured all my offensive line worries. I wasn't so impressed with him at the senior bowl practices, but the guy is playing very well (this time only at LT). I'd actually feel comfortable with him as a starter if someone goes down.

Ladell ran hard.

Bad: Jason Campbell played alright. For those of you that didn't watch live I understand why you're impressed with his performance. But for those of you that were actually there, you had to see he pretty consistently missed the open man further down field. His accuracy wasn't on either. He protected the ball and the offense was effective enough so I'm not calling him ugly, but he didn't put on a clinic like last week. All our QBs did it last week and none of them did it this week. That probably says something about the Colts.

Ugly: The Eagles fan that was two seats down my row. That girl was busted.

He placed the ball better in the first game. It's pointed out by the %30 drop in completion percentage and driven home by what I saw in person.

He's a QB. A thrown, 15+ yard TD is FAR more impressive than 4 hand offs in a row up the middle. If I'm looking at QB's, I'm more interested in his throwing than his handing off. But Kudus for keeping the handoffs under control.

The QB's as a whole had a better day against the Colts than they did against the Bills. It's an honest and obvious observation. Would you say that's because the Colts suck less than the Bills on Defense or are you going to tell me it's because they were on fire in Canton but only luke warm here at FedEx or what? The why is a far more productive line of conversation.

This is pre-season guys. Can't you evaluate a player(s) honestly? Look at what they do and how they do it. Then let's talk about how it translate into the regular season when it counts. Right now, I'm seeing JC as our best QB, but that he'll be average if he plays more like he did against the Bills and less like he did against the Colts.

Either you have completly lost your mind. Cause this can't be explained by being a dallas fan or whatever, or even just a campbell hater. Your logic makes no sense from any degree. the deeper recievers were not as open as you think, i was there as well.

Stats don't tell the whole story.

And to clear up earlier stats:
Rating:157.08/90 (Drop of 67.08 - neary %43 )
Comp %: 100/70 (%30 drop)
Yards per ATTEMPT: 12.2/7.1 (a MASSIVE drop of 5.1 - nearly %42)

Why?

hypocrite, and a further showing that you aren't making any sense at all


I try not to get dragged into these threads where a poster simply has an agenda but,....


And just how is THIS Campbells fault????
I guess, (in your mind and eyes) you being there to see it "LIVE" makes you the extreme end-all be-all of football knowledge! I would wager, Cutter, that there are probably close to 70,000 others who ALSO saw this game "LIVE" and would beg to differ with your "logic"!!!

Me being one of them. I was there live, and i thought campbell seemed to control the tempo, direct the offense and make plays when they needed to be made and not force.


Frankly, Cutter has to be trolling on this point. There is just no way that even a poster with an agenda would come on here and post the things he does about Campbell. I cannot believe that Cutter actually believes this inane spin he's putting on it and I think he's just trolling for fights.

this is my line of think as well ak. someone can't possibly, reasonably believe in his line of thinking cause there is no line. he is arguing to argue without making sense, and lacks general football knowledge. He thinks campbell is only being average cause he placed the ball on the receiver and not infront of the receiver. seriously dude? whatever, i think you just looking to argue.

[greatest2]

You guys sound like women.


I am not a women, but i am pretty sure that a women wouldn't like that comment.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean? What are you trying to say?
I believe you are trying to be derogatory towards women.

My next question is that you think its ok not just to think it, you believe it is so acceptable as to type/write it in a public forum while in a conversation with multiple people. I wonder if you think bias towards other groups of people? do you think all Asians are terrorists?

[akhhorus]

I am not a women, but i am pretty sure that a women wouldn't like that comment.

Exactly what is that supposed to mean? What are you trying to say?
I believe you are trying to be derogatory towards women.

My next question is that you think its ok not just to think it, you believe it is so acceptable as to type/write it in a public forum while in a conversation with multiple people. I wonder if you think bias towards other groups of people? do you think all Asians are terrorists?

And Cutter has a history of borderline misogynist comments here.

[Cutter]

I've stated my position. Your emotional connection to the subject matter is stopping you from countering with anything but ad hominem attacks. You're seeing what you want to see in my words instead of what I'm actually saying - just like you're seeing what you want to see in JC instead of what he's actually doing. The same non-points keep being brought up and re-hashed. I'm tired of responding and reading the mess you lads have created. Going from talking football to being called hypocrite, misogynist and racist is beyond my tolerance level. I'm done here.

[akhhorus]

I've stated my position. Your emotional connection to the subject matter is stopping you from countering with anything but ad hominem attacks. You're seeing what you want to see in my words instead of what I'm actually saying - just like you're seeing what you want to see in JC instead of what he's actually doing. The same non-points keep being brought up and re-hashed. I'm tired of responding and reading the mess you lads have created. Going from talking football to being called hypocrite, misogynist and racist is beyond my tolerance level. I'm done here.

No one will miss you.

We've tried over and over again to discuss this issue with the facts, and whenever someone points out a fact that contradicts your agenda, you ignore the poster or try to turn into a victim(much like you're doing here). I lost count how many times someone points out an inconsistency in your argument or a factual flaw and you respond by ignoring the post. Get off your santimonious high horse and discuss the issue and stop trying to accuse us of what you're doing.

[hockeygoalie29]

I've stated my position. Your emotional connection to the subject matter is stopping you from countering with anything but ad hominem attacks. You're seeing what you want to see in my words instead of what I'm actually saying - just like you're seeing what you want to see in JC instead of what he's actually doing. The same non-points keep being brought up and re-hashed. I'm tired of responding and reading the mess you lads have created. Going from talking football to being called hypocrite, misogynist and racist is beyond my tolerance level. I'm done here.

http://www.tiricosuave.com/images/highhorse.jpg

[hockeygoalie29]

I like this one better, although I'm hoping Cutter doesn't resurrect in 3 days...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4830/martyrdomtshirtnp6.jpg

[Keino]

I've stated my position. Your emotional connection to the subject matter is stopping you from countering with anything but ad hominem attacks. You're seeing what you want to see in my words instead of what I'm actually saying - just like you're seeing what you want to see in JC instead of what he's actually doing. The same non-points keep being brought up and re-hashed. I'm tired of responding and reading the mess you lads have created. Going from talking football to being called hypocrite, misogynist and racist is beyond my tolerance level. I'm done here.

It seems to me your emotional connection with the subject matter is preventing you from discussing the issue in an objective and factual way. I am pretty sure that I have addressed actual points in response to points you have raised. Suddenly they become non-points?

[AliBabba]

I've stated my position. Your emotional connection to the subject matter is stopping you from countering with anything but ad hominem attacks. You're seeing what you want to see in my words instead of what I'm actually saying - just like you're seeing what you want to see in JC instead of what he's actually doing. The same non-points keep being brought up and re-hashed. I'm tired of responding and reading the mess you lads have created. Going from talking football to being called hypocrite, misogynist and racist is beyond my tolerance level. I'm done here.

Clearly you are more emotionally attached to this than anyone. You attack JC in every thread you can find/create a reason to. Your attacks are devoid of logic and the only consistency in your arguments is your flip-flopping on whether stats or your DVR are the absolute truth.

Look everyone gets it, you don't believe in JC. There are many, many here (most in fact) who aren't ready to anoint him the the next coming either. However, there are definitely signs that he is improving and as fans of the team getting excited about that is rather normal. If you refuse to accept or see this then just hush up, wait out a few weeks of the season and if you are right or wrong come back "like a man" (no offense ladies) and stand up and say so.

In any case just shut down the attacks for a bit as its just getting old, everyone knows where you stand, and you are just making yourself into a cartoon. Village idiot, lol

[skin4ever]

Holy Cheese and Crackers batman, how is this "discussion" happening, who bases anything off of 12 total preseason passes(complete or incomplete). Its preseason, the most important thing to look at in preseason is who is getting it and who isnt.

I do think it is important to note, Ahk, you are a living thesarus, you make Dennis Miller look like Cutter.

Cutter, save it for when it counts. I dont think anyone is ready to annoint Campbell as our all time QB, but everyone(all skins fans, less one) are excited about his progression and grasp of another offense. This is preseason, save your criticism for when the real bullets fly. But definitely, dont rely on a total of 12 passes to bash a guy.

[TrueOracle]

How did I miss this thread???? As a self-proclaimed JC Jock Strapper, I'm wondering why my fellow hR brethren are responding to some of his ridiculous assertions? Why are you wasting precious keystrokes on asinine critiques of JC? I'm disappointed in your headiness.

What has to be remembered is if JC fails our FO will have to shoulder at least as much responsibility for it as he would. I mean, multiple systems, OL depth (or lack thereof), etc will have to remain accounted for. But I believe in Zorn as a QB coach. JC loves Coach (as told to me personally) and now he has multiple weapons with size to throw to. This is a breakout year for both JC and Coach.

Hail...