Smoak Signals - Redskins News for Thursday

[smoak]

Taylor Says Foot Injury Is 'Not That Big of a Deal' (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/13/AR2008081303453.html)
"It's all right," Taylor said of his foot. "It's one of those things you've just got to manage and take care of. It's going to be sore. It's football, baby. You're going to be sore and beat up."

Great attitude!!

Randle El Nurses Leg, Wrist


Wide receiver Antwaan Randle El (hamstring) sat out practice again and could be a game-time decision against the Jets, Zorn said. Randle El had his left wrist wrapped because someone stepped on it Saturday, Zorn said. "He's just trying to keep the swelling out," Zorn said. "That's a multitask ice pack." . . .

Cornerback Carlos Rogers has continued to progress in rehab from reconstructive knee surgery and could play this week, Zorn said. "I'd still like to wait, but I'm not ruling him out," he said. "I'll know more [today] because we're going to work on our list and just talk those things through. It may be just a pregame deal again where he gets ready and we shut him down." The team may opt to rest Rogers because of the patchy surface at the Meadowlands. . . .

Offensive line coach Joe Bugel remains with his family and his daughter, Holly, who is battling cancer. Owner Daniel Snyder arranged for Bugel to take his private plane to Phoenix after Saturday's victory over Buffalo. Bugel's daughter has a rare, aggressive form of bone cancer.

Cornerback Shawn Springs, who sat out Tuesday because of a sore Achilles' tendon, fully participated in practice. . . . Free safety LaRon Landry (hamstring) sat out again and is not expected to play against the Jets. Landry also missed the team's first two preseason games because of his lingering injury. Rookie Kareem Moore worked with the first-team defense in place of Landry. . . .

Wide receivers Anthony Mix (ribs) and Malcolm Kelly (knee), linebacker H.B. Blades (knee) and offensive lineman Todd Wade (ankle) and Stephon Heyer (knee) have not returned to practice and are expected to miss Saturday's game.

I keep saying it, but Landry is a big key in my mind and he has one of those nagging injuries that could take a while to heal... I'm officially concerned.

New Jet Takes Off On Short Notice (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/13/AR2008081303451.html)
The task at hand is every bit as challenging: Now the Jets have to get Favre ready for the season.

Favre joined his new teammates last Thursday night in Cleveland, the day after the trade, but only watched them play in their preseason opener. He began practicing with the Jets last weekend and is scheduled to start Saturday night's preseason game against the Washington Redskins at Giants Stadium.
I still can not fathom why the Jets made this move???

Thrash still catching on (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/14/thrash-still-catching-on/)
James Thrash is a survivor.

Wide receiver James Thrash hasn't missed a day of training camp this season.

The Washington Redskins didn't re-sign receivers like Reche Caldwell in the offseason. Others, such as Brandon Lloyd, were cut. Rookies Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly have struggled with injuries.

But the 33-year-old Thrash hasn't missed a day of practice since minicamp began and is in line to be the team's No. 3 receiver behind Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El.

"You mean Mr. Consistency?" receivers coach Stan Hixon said.

"You're always going to get an honest day's work from James. He's one of those guys in the background that you don't think about. You want to get one faster, one this or one that, but James always seems to show up. He's one of the players that gets it. A lot of guys don't. Some guys play for four years and should have played for 12. Some guys play for 12 when they probably should have played four.

"James just keeps on playing. He makes plays."

I have such a HUGE respect for James Thrash, and I am so happy that he'll be around under this new regime.

[smoak]

Preseason or not, I just couldn't pass on this headline. :D

Undefeated Redskins to Face Favre-Led Jets (http://www.washingtoninformer.com/wi/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=766&Itemid=97)
Both second round draft picks and wide receivers Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, who were injured last week, are slated to see their first action against the Jets.

The Zorn Redskin identity (http://www.journalpress.com/default.asp?sourceid=&smenu=75&twindow=Default&mad=No&sdetail=5326&wpage=&skeyword=&sidate=&ccat=&ccatm=&restate=&restatus=&reoption=&retype=&repmin=&repmax=&rebed=&rebath=&subname=&pform=&sc=1139&hn=journalpress&he=.com)
Redskins head coach Jim Zorn talks frequently about tempo. After two pre season games, the emphasis on tempo is very apparent, the plays are called, the team is at the line of scrimmage, and the ball is snapped consistently with at least ten seconds left on the play clock. This is a big difference from last season when the Redskins frequently received delay of game penalties. Not having the complexities of the Al Saunders playbook and confusion of who is calling the plays is a big difference. Though not as crisp and clean last Saturday night as in the previous weeks Hall of Fame game, the Redskins were light years more efficient than last season’s edition. Just two games in to the pre-season that is saying a lot.

The new up tempo offense is fun to watch. Gone is the emphasis of running, running, running, although by spreading the field with the multiple sets Zorn favors, it gives Portis and company a lot more room to operate. Ladell Betts ripped off a nifty eleven yard gain on an obvious passing situation with an offensive set using wide outs spread from sideline to sideline.

Top-Five NFL Surprises in 2008 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/47311-top-five-nfl-surprises-in-2008)
(Sports Fan Website but I couldn't resist posting this one.)
1. How far the Redskins will go

My most surprising pick, and the most controversial, is my prediction for Washington's season. I say they will go 11-5, win their division, and go to the Super Bowl. They have a fairly underrated defense that will do even better this season with the addition of Jason Taylor on the defensive line. The NFL's surprise of the season.

Sadly, I am starting to believe that this year is a possibility and that means we're doomed. :D

[smoak]

This is an old article, but I thought I would throw it out there.
FLO Corp., Redskins partner for benefits card (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nfl&id=3510221&campaign=rsssrch&source=washington+redskins)
The Chantilly, Va.-based company announced Tuesday it signed a three-year deal with the football team. For $100 a year, customers can register for the new card that will let them enter fast lanes at FedEx Field and airports in the federal registered traveler program.
Really? Really!? Barring someone like keino who flies in for every game, why would fans pay for this???
FLO officials say they already have more than 5,000 members who use the cards at 19 airports, including Reagan National and Dulles International. Those who apply must go through a federal background check.

Uh oh! Keino is out. :D

Redskins happy to avoid media hype for once (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8442428/Redskins-happy-to-avoid-media-hype-for-once?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5)
The stealth bombers protecting the White House have company.

The Washington Redskins are flying under the radar, too.
"We weren't in a position where we felt there was a dire need to go get somebody," Cerrato said. "There was nothing we really had to have. There's less and less available every year in free agency. When we evaluated it, there was nothing we felt was worthy of what those players were going to be paid."

The Redskins are enjoying this time out of the spotlight — for now.

"That's just life. All we can control is us," Redskins defensive end Andre Carter said. "In due time when we're winning and successful, everybody will see what the Redskins have to offer."

Hopefully this translates to more than just talk once the bullets fly for real.

[smoak]

Unapologetic Mason plug for the day!!!! (Another "fan article")

Is Marcus Mason Going To Push Ladell Betts Out Of DC? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/44748-is-marcus-mason-going-to-push-ladell-betts-out-of-dc)

For the record, I always liked the kid, but now I like him and hope he makes the roster. I didn't feel he was ready last season. Also, I want four RBs unless we get an amazing trade offer for Betts (we won't).

Have a great day everyone!!!

[chrisbcbu]

Both second round draft picks and wide receivers Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, who were injured last week, are slated to see their first action against the Jets.

This is the first i have read that Malcolm will be playing. I do not think he is.

[Patrick]

This is the first i have read that Malcolm will be playing. I do not think he is.

Me too and as reported in the WP "Redskins Notebook" has not even returned to practice. Has to be an error unless he's resuming practice today?

[Hr fan]

Liked the bleacherreport piece, but a calm good citizen like JC leading jersey sales? Give me a break. All told, I hope the article is 50% right.

[Redblood]

[QUOTE=smoak;1124763





New Jet Takes Off On Short Notice[/URL]

I still can not fathom why the Jets made this move???



1. Money

2. Brett is better than C. Pennington and C. Clemon.

3. Jets want him to retire as a Jet! LOL!

:jetsuk:

[Keino]

I'll have you know I will have no problems getting through a Federal Background check......

It mentions Dulles and National, but what about BWI? That's the only way it will be of benefit to me.....

[redwolf1218]

Unapologetic Mason plug for the day!!!! (Another "fan article")

Is Marcus Mason Going To Push Ladell Betts Out Of DC? (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/44748-is-marcus-mason-going-to-push-ladell-betts-out-of-dc)

For the record, I always liked the kid, but now I like him and hope he makes the roster. I didn't feel he was ready last season. Also, I want four RBs unless we get an amazing trade offer for Betts (we won't).

Have a great day everyone!!!

i think it would make more sense to cut Rock than to trade Betts. if Rock was cut, i dont think he would even make another NFL roster.

i have been harshly critical of Rock and Thrash in the past, but i take back what i said about Thrash. i am beginning to think now that he was just under-utilized in recent years (9 catches last year and 12 the year before that). i dont understand why they brought in McCardell and Caldwell to play in front of Thrash. at the time, i figured that meant Thrash was done, but Zorn loves the guy.

[Keino]

i think it would make more sense to cut Rock than to trade Betts. if Rock was cut, i dont think he would even make another NFL roster.

i have been harshly critical of Rock and Thrash in the past, but i take back what i said about Thrash. i am beginning to think now that he was just under-utilized in recent years (9 catches last year and 12 the year before that). i dont understand why they brought in McCardell and Caldwell to play in front of Thrash. at the time, i figured that meant Thrash was done, but Zorn loves the guy.

Here's the thing.....If you believe Mason should be backing up Portis (as I do), what reason is there to hold on to Betts? Rock is most certainly not as valuable to the running game/offense as Betts, but he is invaluable as a Special Teams performer, particularly in coverage. I am not excited by him as a returner, but he is serviceable there and keeps our more relied upon players out of that mix. If Betts isn't the back-up, what is his value to this team?

Thats why I would trade him. Better for him and us, and the chance to get some draft picks potentially out of it makes sense. As you correctly point out, Rock has no value around the league and we could not get anything for him, but he does have value to our team.....

Again, all of the above assumes Mason is the back-up RB, which of course is no guarantee, but those of us on his bandwagon I think would like to see it happen.....

[AliBabba]

Again, all of the above assumes Mason is the back-up RB, which of course is no guarantee, but those of us on his bandwagon I think would like to see it happen.....

Huge assumption imo ... I think we gotta find a way to keep Rock, Betts, and Mason for now.

As the season progresses if Mason proves he can handle that (which I hope he does/can) we can trade Betts for the most value to the team with the next injured RB.

I do agree that if Mason is able to handle the 2nd RB role that Rock would be the much more valuable player than Betts.

[Keino]

I'd like to see Mason get some reps against 1st team defenses. I think that would go a long way in determining his real value and chance to be the Back-up RB.

[AliBabba]

I'd like to see Mason get some reps against 1st team defenses. I think that would go a long way in determining his real value and chance to be the Back-up RB.
agreed, and I don't see how it won't happen. the comments coming from Zorn and others sure make it sound like they like the kid too so I'm sure they'll want to see what he's capable of soon as both Betts are Rock are much more known commodities.

[Hrabanmaur]

Huge assumption imo ... I think we gotta find a way to keep Rock, Betts, and Mason for now.

As the season progresses if Mason proves he can handle that (which I hope he does/can) we can trade Betts for the most value to the team with the next injured RB.

I do agree that if Mason is able to handle the 2nd RB role that Rock would be the much more valuable player than Betts.

I think the other problem is that no one really wants to see Rock at HB outside of a few limited carries to spell the starter. I'd much rather hold on to Betts for now, in case we are that team with the next injured RB. I feel much more confident about a Mason-Betts duo than a Mason-Cartwright duo should Portis go down.

[shally]

I think the other problem is that no one really wants to see Rock at HB outside of a few limited carries to spell the starter. I'd much rather hold on to Betts for now, in case we are that team with the next injured RB. I feel much more confident about a Mason-Betts duo than a Mason-Cartwright duo should Portis go down.

dont want to even see rock THAT much inthe backfield.. he is a special teamer and no more..

[AliBabba]

I think the other problem is that no one really wants to see Rock at HB outside of a few limited carries to spell the starter. I'd much rather hold on to Betts for now, in case we are that team with the next injured RB. I feel much more confident about a Mason-Betts duo than a Mason-Cartwright duo should Portis go down.
If Mason is capable of supplanting Betts on the depth chart then I think Betts should go. While I agree that Betts is a better RB than Rock I think Rock's value to the team at RB3 is more than Betts' because of teams.

Also, if Mason moves ahead of Betts on the depth (again a HUGE if) then you would look much more favorable of either duo whether it was Mason-Betts or Mason-Rock because in either scenario Mason is getting most of the carries

[smoak]

I'll have you know I will have no problems getting through a Federal Background check......

It mentions Dulles and National, but what about BWI? That's the only way it will be of benefit to me.....

LOL! I was jusst curious to see if you read this thing. :D

As for Mason, I'm in the camp of keeping four UNLESS we get great value for someone in a trade. Aside from Portis, I believe they are all cost effective...

[Hrabanmaur]

dont want to even see rock THAT much inthe backfield.. he is a special teamer and no more..

Perhaps I should have put greater emphasis on the "limited" part of his carries. In general, I agree with you. If we keep Rock, it's b/c of his key special teams play, and I don't think that's a bad thing. We've had solid special teams on kickoff and coverage units the past few years, and Rock has a been a big part of that.

[Keino]

If Mason is capable of supplanting Betts on the depth chart then I think Betts should go. While I agree that Betts is a better RB than Rock I think Rock's value to the team at RB3 is more than Betts' because of teams.

Also, if Mason moves ahead of Betts on the depth (again a HUGE if) then you would look much more favorable of either duo whether it was Mason-Betts or Mason-Rock because in either scenario Mason is getting most of the carries

I see we are of the same mind-set here. Betts' value plummets if he loses a spot on the depth chart as his ST skills aren't close to Rock's....IMO.

[smoak]

Rookie Jackson vies for job (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/14/rookie-jackson-vies-for-job-at-end/)
Rob Jackson stood out in his first NFL preseason game for the Washington Redskins, but it was both good and bad.

He had a sack, but he also had one nullified by his own presnap penalty. This past weekend, Jackson was not nearly as noticeable - he didn't even register a tackle - but that doesn't mean he regressed.

"He actually played much, much better in the second game," defensive line coach John Palermo said. "Sometimes it is the luck of the draw whether or not you get put into position to make big plays, but he was so much better fundamentally against the run. With the pass rush, we've just got to keep him working on it and working on it. He's got some talent in that area, and we just have to keep developing it."

"I am in a fight," Jackson said. "Every day it is in the back of my head, but at the same time you can't let that be the focus of your attention. I think if I do my job, I have to make the team. If I do the right things and do what the coaches tell me, I should be OK."

There is some good news at the position. Thomas has practiced at full speed this week, and Zorn said he will make his preseason debut against the Jets. Thomas had one of the best catches of the day, grabbing a ball in traffic that prompted Zorn to meet him on his way back to the huddle for extra encouragement.

"What I saw today about Devin is while he was rehabbing and getting his hamstring well, he was listening because he didn't make many mistakes," Zorn said. "He really fought to catch the ball. I really saw him step up and want to be on the field."

[AliBabba]

I see we are of the same mind-set here. Betts' value plummets if he loses a spot on the depth chart as his ST skills aren't close to Rock's....IMO.
yep, my only thing is that I because of what Liddle Bitts has proven during the regular season I don't beleive that any number of preseason carries against 1st team defenses for Mason is enough to supplant Betts at this point. I think that we should start the year with all 3 active (I'll leave it to Dustin and the other roster experts to figure out how) so that Mason can get some meaniningful carries to help determine his actual value.

[Keino]

yep, my only thing is that I because of what Liddle Bitts has proven during the regular season I don't beleive that any number of preseason carries against 1st team defenses for Mason is enough to supplant Betts at this point. I think that we should start the year with all 3 active (I'll leave it to Dustin and the other roster experts to figure out how) so that Mason can get some meaniningful carries to help determine his actual value.

With the trade deadline being in week 6, I am unsure if we have that luxury. It does sound like Zorn is looking for a way to keep all 4......

[dj_stouty]

It is essential for NFL teams to have 2 good RBs these days. Having 3 would be a huge luxury. Portis/Betts/Mason would be a great group, and I'd feel fairly comfortable with the running game should one get hurt.

I must say, however, that Betts has looked decent this preseason and I think he will be up to the task of 125 or so carries this season. He has seemed to lose some of his hesitation and he just runs for daylight and yardage. Can't ask much more from your 2nd RB on the depth chart.

[redskin_rich]

It is essential for NFL teams to have 2 good RBs these days. Having 3 would be a huge luxury. Portis/Betts/Mason would be a great group, and I'd feel fairly comfortable with the running game should one get hurt.

I must say, however, that Betts has looked decent this preseason and I think he will be up to the task of 125 or so carries this season. He has seemed to lose some of his hesitation and he just runs for daylight and yardage. Can't ask much more from your 2nd RB on the depth chart.

Betts had a lot of daylight to run to this past weekend. Not saying he didn't look good but I think I could have made some good gains with those running lanes he had. Our 2nd string O-Line looks very good.

[Redskin4Life]

Is it just me or does ANYONE else think that Betts could be the ST stud Rock is (maybe even better)? No one wanted Rock before so cut him so why is everyone think he's that essential to our STs???

If the worst situ happens to us that Portis goes down with an injury, we can easily sign Rock back to take over his ST duties with Betts-Mason as the RB duo.

[Keino]

Betts had a lot of daylight to run to this past weekend. Not saying he didn't look good but I think I could have made some good gains with those running lanes he had. Our 2nd string O-Line looks very good.

I was more impressed by his willingness to actually block in pass protection than I was impressed by his running. I agree that Betts looked good in his limited action. I cannot get over his injury history though and have been wanting to upgrade him for a while now.......That's my own personal bias at work though, I recognize that.

[redskin_rich]

I was more impressed by his willingness to actually block in pass protection than I was impressed by his running. I agree that Betts looked good in his limited action. I cannot get over his injury history though and have been wanting to upgrade him for a while now.......That's my own personal bias at work though, I recognize that.

I still get nervous about him putting the ball on the ground, which he has a tendency to do, as does Rock. I am praying that Mason's fumble was a fluke and not something that will be a problem with him as well.

[Keino]

Is it just me or does ANYONE else think that Betts could be the ST stud Rock is (maybe even better)? No one wanted Rock before so cut him so why is everyone think he's that essential to our STs???

If the worst situ happens to us that Portis goes down with an injury, we can easily sign Rock back to take over his ST duties with Betts-Mason as the RB duo.

Personally, I never want Rock to run the ball and it was my argument previously that if you only keep 3 RBs, then your 3rd must be able to be relied upon in a pinch. I think those who advocated cutting Rock did so because his sole value is on Special Teams, in particular, on coverage teams. With Mason looking so good, I think he may be a viable 2nd option, even more so that Betts........

It's going to be a tough decision no matter what they do at RB.

[dj_stouty]

Betts had a lot of daylight to run to this past weekend. Not saying he didn't look good but I think I could have made some good gains with those running lanes he had. Our 2nd string O-Line looks very good.

Granted, the o-line did open the heavens for him on several plays, but at least he hit the hole with power and speed. Maybe I'm giving him more credit than I should, but at least he didn't screw it up when given the shot to produce big yardage plays. He did'nt hesitate, he didn't dance, and he held onto the ball. He did what he was supposed to do which is more than we have seen from him in the past.

[Redskin4Life]

Personally, I never want Rock to run the ball and it was my argument previously that if you only keep 3 RBs, then your 3rd must be able to be relied upon in a pinch. I think those who advocated cutting Rock did so because his sole value is on Special Teams, in particular, on coverage teams. With Mason looking so good, I think he may be a viable 2nd option, even more so that Betts........

It's going to be a tough decision no matter what they do at RB.
I'm not arguing that point at all... I agree with you 100%. My thing is I would rather see Portis-Betts-Mason than Portis-Betts-Cartwright or even the Portis-Betts-Mason-Cartwright combo. IMO, Betts can do all that Rock can and probably better (I know he's pretty good at PR duties -- Tampa game three years ago). I just think we need to go with a REAL backup RB instead of a player that's purely a STeamer.

[AliBabba]

I'm not arguing that point at all... I agree with you 100%. My thing is I would rather see Portis-Betts-Mason than Portis-Betts-Cartwright or even the Portis-Betts-Mason-Cartwright combo. IMO, Betts can do all that Rock can and probably better (I know he's pretty good at PR duties -- Tampa game three years ago). I just think we need to go with a REAL backup RB instead of a player that's purely a STeamer.
maybe thats the argument to keep 'em all then and relieve Rock of the RB title altogether

[Redskin4Life]

maybe thats the argument to keep 'em all then and relieve Rock of the RB title altogether
Sorry, but if you've read my comments and came to that conclusion, I must not be making myself clear.

I think Betts can take over all the ST duties that Rock can. I think Betts could be a much more dangerous KR/PR than Rock. I also think of Betts as a RB. With so few a spots available on the team (especially gameday), I would feel much more comfortable with Betts coming in at RB if we had an injury than Cartwright.

Mason, IMO, could be good enough to be a 2nd string RB with Betts as the 3. But even if MM's the 3rd RB, he's a RUNNING BACK and not a special teams stud that's masquerading as a RB.

Let's just let Rock go and if we need him, we can sign him back on.

[Keino]

R4L, I think you overestimate what Betts can do in Teams coverage or you underestimate what Rock does. Cartwright is one of the better people on our entire roster at Kick and Punt Coverage.....I believe he led our Special teams in Tackles.....

[Moe]

R4L, I think you overestimate what Betts can do in Teams coverage or you underestimate what Rock does. Cartwright is one of the better people on our entire roster at Kick and Punt Coverage.....I believe he led our Special teams in Tackles.....

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out and will likely be one of the tougher calls Zorn makes in shaping this roster.

What you say is true; while Rock is reliable and steady as a return man, he is without a doubt one of the best coverage guys on this team, maybe league-wide and that's where I think the bulk of his value lies. I had forgotten until reading this but Betts fielded a lot of returns back in '05 (I believe) and did pretty well, even had one long return for a td. I can't recall seeing him back there in a long time, but maybe that says something about how secure his spot is. In light of Zorn mentioning using Moss on punt returns I can't help but wonder why Betts hasn't gotten a look at kickoffs. Granted, there's still a few games left, so maybe we will. While tough calls, these are ultimately the type of problems most teams want and the tightness of the competition should work to the benefit of the team.

[bergiemoore]

Framing the Past to Evaluate the Future (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/framing_the_past_to_evaluate_t.html)

I haven't been overly fond of Jason La Canfora of late, but this post in his blog aims a critical eye at the Gibbs II era and voices some opinions that are generally avoided by the mainstream media.

In 2004, Gibbs overhauled the entire roster, often at the expense of truly evaluating the existing talent, and continued an era of gluttonous spending on a top-heavy roster and bloated coaching staff. (Again, fast forward to this past off-season, when the team hoarded draft picks, made few big moves, actually purged the coaching staff and hired cheaper coaches without the big-name splashes of the past).

The team won six games that season with an offense so stunted that it led to the top WR wanting out and tackle Jon Jansen opining on ESPN that it was was stuck in the early '90s.

...

Then Gibbs threw all of that away, adding Al Saunders and spending freely on the most infamous off-season free agent/trade classes in recent history. The season was a 5-11 washout, the quarterback position remained in utter flux, and this time the defense couldn't bail Gibbs out, with injuries and fissures and problems with the system compounding the problems. The team still looked ultra-conservative offensively, Saunders and QB Coach Bill Lazor were struggling to fit into the overall offensive staff, players were serving too many masters and game day remained an adventure. Plays came into the huddle late and procedural penalties were the norm (note the lack of attempted deception or trickery and preponderance of pre-snap motion in this new offense).

Would people be nearly as willing to put up with [Zorn] having the kind of game-day meltdowns we saw the last four years (even though Zorn is doing this all for the first time, unlike his predecessor)? Would 31-36 (including the playoffs), with no division titles, be considered a cause for celebration? Maybe I'm not being nostalgic enough, and maybe I'm in the minority, but I think if anyone not named Joe Jackson Gibbs had coached the past four years, he would have been gone after Year Three. I think Zorn deserves to be judged against what's passed for success in the incarnation of this franchise under the current ownership group, and not the past.

[Keino]

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out and will likely be one of the tougher calls Zorn makes in shaping this roster.

What you say is true; while Rock is reliable and steady as a return man, he is without a doubt one of the best coverage guys on this team, maybe league-wide and that's where I think the bulk of his value lies. I had forgotten until reading this but Betts fielded a lot of returns back in '05 (I believe) and did pretty well, even had one long return for a td. I can't recall seeing him back there in a long time, but maybe that says something about how secure his spot is. In light of Zorn mentioning using Moss on punt returns I can't help but wonder why Betts hasn't gotten a look at kickoffs. Granted, there's still a few games left, so maybe we will. While tough calls, these are ultimately the type of problems most teams want and the tightness of the competition should work to the benefit of the team.

I think you may recall that you an I disagreed a few weeks ago on what Rock's value as a returner was, but we are most certainly in agreement as to where the bulk of his value lies.

At this point if we were to only keep 3, I would want it to be because we traded Betts......and yes, this is the type of problem good teams have.

[jaylen]

I think that stuff about Gibbs is true to an extent, but I think its way overblown when the previous 8 years or so we were completely angst ridden with no direction or focus on anything other than signing free agents, we weren't making the playoffs were a laughing stock really.

And I can't name 3 coaches in the league that could have got that team last season to the playoffs with all that went on so lets not get revisionist and pile on Gibbs after the fact.

He left the cubbard pretty full of talent for Zorn.

I got a good feeling about Zorn and all the things he's bringing to the table but he hasn't done jack yet.

Gibbs got us to the playoffs Twice in 4 years thats a better ratio than we had been having. including a playoff win.

[Moe]

I think you may recall that you an I disagreed a few weeks ago on what Rock's value as a returner was, but we are most certainly in agreement as to where the bulk of his value lies.

At this point if we were to only keep 3, I would want it to be because we traded Betts......and yes, this is the type of problem good teams have.

Yes, I do recall that disagreement. While I seem to value Rock's return skills a wee bit more than you do, I'd welcome an improvement were it to come from one of the other guys all while strengthening the larger running back rotation. I'd hate to see any of these guys get dinged, however it wouldn't surprise me if Mason somehow 'tweaked' something ;) , was IR'd and gets his shot next year.

[AliBabba]

Sorry, but if you've read my comments and came to that conclusion, I must not be making myself clear.

I think Betts can take over all the ST duties that Rock can. I think Betts could be a much more dangerous KR/PR than Rock. I also think of Betts as a RB. With so few a spots available on the team (especially gameday), I would feel much more comfortable with Betts coming in at RB if we had an injury than Cartwright.

Mason, IMO, could be good enough to be a 2nd string RB with Betts as the 3. But even if MM's the 3rd RB, he's a RUNNING BACK and not a special teams stud that's masquerading as a RB.

Let's just let Rock go and if we need him, we can sign him back on.
Your comments refer to Rock's return capabilities. Surely you don't think that Betts will be as good on converage? If so based on what? His proven durability?

[silverspring]

At this point if we were to only keep 3, I would want it to be because we traded Betts......and yes, this is the type of problem good teams have.

The shocking thing is that we have this problem at multiple positions this year.

I am in the camp that Rock makes this team mostly because of his special team play. I regard his value as a return man very highly and I think that we are all forgetting about how inconsistent and error prone our kick return game was. I think Rock's role in the locker room is another reason that helps him make the squad. I can't take it seriously when people say mason is ready to move up above betts on the depth chart. That may be true, but he still has yet to play any real time with the starters in pre-season much less regular season. We all know the tempo of play is vastly different and I need to see some real evidence before assuming a pre-season super hero is able to do it in the regular season. Trading betts is an interesting idea, but i think i would want a 4th rounder before i thought it was worth the risk, betts is pretty darn cheap for a solid backup rb.

[Slobberknocker]

I have such a HUGE respect for James Thrash, and I am so happy that he'll be around under this new regime.

Or are you just happy to see him? :moon2:

[smoak]

I defend Gibbs 2.0 more than probably any other poster on this board. The (sad) fact is that we had more "success" under him than any coach since he left. HOWEVER, I despised his decision to be the acting GM from day one, and I believe he undermined himself in that dual role. I don't care about Coles who has proven to be a whiney **expletive deleted**, but we consistently committed the same player acquisition sins as the past regimes. I actually think that it was a miracle that Gibbs was able to overcome some of these blunders. We overpaid for guys like ARE, Arch, Moss.. We continued to ship draft picks for guys like Lloyd, McIntosh, Portis, etc. I also feel that Gibbs' decision to bring in Saunders was a key mistake. Not that I am looking for a scapegoat, but I never got the feeling that things clicked there, and at the end of the day, a strong GM would have resolved some of the issues...

Then last season. I still really don't like to talk about it b/c not only am I emotional about the murder of Taylor, but from an unemotional standpoint, the Redskins lost arguably (though you won't get an argument from me) our BEST player... In hindsight and in my heart, I truly believe that Gibbs came back to get the franchise turned in the right direction, and help the team through what is easily our darkest history in my time. To that end, I say mission accomplished and I'll leave it there b/c I don't want to discuss Gibbs... He fell short of his goals, but I feel the organization is in a decent place not from the standpoint of the 1) the talent on the roster for the next guy and 2) the slight evolution of the owner. Listen, I love me some good "vanilla ice cream stories" as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, I want an owner that is more of a behind the scenes leader and not a **stream of expletives deleted**.

It is actually an interesting contrast to look at Gibbs 1.0 and 2.0.... The first go-run gave the franchise our greatest moments in history but left the cupboards so depleted that we were horrendous for years.... The second go round might have accomplished the opposite. We had no immediate success, but I am (finally) optimistic about our future prospects. Only time will tell.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I defend Gibbs 2.0 more than probably any other poster on this board. The (sad) fact is that we had more "success" under him than any coach since he left. HOWEVER, I despised his decision to be the acting GM from day one, and I believe he undermined himself in that dual role. I don't care about Coles who has proven to be a whiney **expletive deleted**, but we consistently committed the same player acquisition sins as the past regimes. I actually think that it was a miracle that Gibbs was able to overcome some of these blunders. We overpaid for guys like ARE, Arch, Moss.. We continued to ship draft picks for guys like Lloyd, McIntosh, Portis, etc. I also feel that Gibbs' decision to bring in Saunders was a key mistake. Not that I am looking for a scapegoat, but I never got the feeling that things clicked there, and at the end of the day, a strong GM would have resolved some of the issues...

Then last season. I still really don't like to talk about it b/c not only am I emotional about the murder of Taylor, but from an unemotional standpoint, the Redskins lost arguably (though you won't get an argument from me) our BEST player... In hindsight and in my heart, I truly believe that Gibbs came back to get the franchise turned in the right direction, and help the team through what is easily our darkest history in my time. To that end, I say mission accomplished and I'll leave it there b/c I don't want to discuss Gibbs... He fell short of his goals, but I feel the organization is in a decent place not from the standpoint of the 1) the talent on the roster for the next guy and 2) the slight evolution of the owner. Listen, I love me some good "vanilla ice cream stories" as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, I want an owner that is more of a behind the scenes leader and not a **stream of expletives deleted**.

It is actually an interesting contrast to look at Gibbs 1.0 and 2.0.... The first go-run gave the franchise our greatest moments in history but left the cupboards so depleted that we were horrendous for years.... The second go round might have accomplished the opposite. We had no immediate success, but I am (finally) optimistic about our future prospects. Only time will tell.

Great post. I agree Gibbs had moderate success in spite of his GM abilities. I have no doubt he had the best intentions at heart, but he didn't "sell out" to use my old coach's term during his second stint. Perhaps he couldn't because of his age and health, but the old Gibbs (paranoid control freak) would have never turned over the offense to anyone.

I like to think Zorn more closely resembles Gibbs I. Obviously he has a long way to go to reach that status.