Redskins Insider's "First Crack at the 53"

[hail2skins]

Here is the Redskins Insider's first crack at the 53-man roster.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/08/07first_crack_at_the_53.html

[Keino]

I read this and my first thought was "Fox?".

[Farmer Ted]

He's got 6 cb's instead of 5, so it's a 54 man roster by my count.

CBs (5): Springs, Rogers, Smoot, Torrence, Tryon, Richardson (maybe Westbrook's returning ability gives him the nod here)

[dj_stouty]

He's got 6 cb's instead of 5, so it's a 54 man roster by my count.

Yup, his math is off...

[shally]

Yup, his math is off...

i thought he had 8 DL ?

if that is so, he is definitely wrong.. no way they keep fox instead of either wilson or jackson

[bergiemoore]

I would be nice to keep 6 CBs, however I don't see that happening.

Also, IMO, I think they keep only 4 Safeties but 9 DLinemen.

Good point about the 26/24 offense to defense split. I was wondering if that was normal or not.

[bergiemoore]

i thought he had 8 DL ?

if that is so, he is definitely wrong.. no way they keep fox instead of either wilson or jackson

Amen

[shally]

I would be nice to keep 6 CBs, however I don't see that happening.

Also, IMO, I think they keep only 4 Safeties but 9 DLinemen.

Good point about the 26/24 offense to defense split. I was wondering if that was normal or not.

with springs playing some safety it gives them the flexibility to carry 4 safeties and consider springs as the fifth

i cannot see them keeping fox based on his career long inability to tackle

[jaylen]

Not keeping Jackson would be a huge gaffe. Our de's got age on them gotta keep the kid for developmental purposes.

But thats assuming James has anything left which we seem to be banking on, which is alittle confusing unless he's shown something working out.

Fox angle is correct I'm with Shally he can't tackle and his special teams ability is alittle overblown.

we gotta find a way to keep Crummey as well, I feel like we're not really taking hard looks at some vets that are not really producing anything.

To me Jansen and Douthy would be cut. I just think we're gonna do so after the season once they stumble and hurt the team why not plan ahead and do it now.

[Skinz4lyfe]

with springs playing some safety it gives them the flexibility to carry 4 safeties and consider springs as the fifth

i cannot see them keeping fox based on his career long inability to tackle

I hope they don't keep Fox. I don't see why he's made it on the roster so far anyway. They keep sighting "experience" is the factor. He's not a good cover for a safety and he can't tackle? At least Archuleta could tackle. If you can't do either what good are you? I say go with the younger guys and take our chances there. If we get an injury there should be servicable veterans available at safety.

[shally]

I hope they don't keep Fox. I don't see why he's made it on the roster so far anyway. They keep sighting "experience" is the factor. He's not a good cover for a safety and he can't tackle? At least Archuleta could tackle. If you can't do either what good are you? I say go with the younger guys and take our chances there. If we get an injury there should be servicable veterans available at safety.

fox was originally signed for his special teams ability (how does a guy takle on special teams but whiff on defense ??).. he wanted a chance to prove he could play safety and has largely been unimpressive when given the chance.
his lack of tackling ability is very noticable every time i have seen him in...

[chicago_skinz_fan]

I would be nice to keep 6 CBs, however I don't see that happening.

Also, IMO, I think they keep only 4 Safeties but 9 DLinemen.

Good point about the 26/24 offense to defense split. I was wondering if that was normal or not.


Do we risk keeping only 4 safties due to the LaRon Landry weird hamstring issue he is having? Those kind of injuries like to linger a flare up once in a while.

[shally]

[QUOTE=chicago_skinz_fan;1126746]Do we risk keeping only 4 safties due to the LaRon Landry weird hamstring issue he is having? Those kind of injuries like to linger a flare up once in a while.[/QUOTE

the other side is that james is no sure thing healthwise, griffin is always dinged, wilson has a calf injury-- so the DL is banged up a lot as well..
and that is before the real banging is about to happen

[hail2skins]

I worked up a profile of number of players at each position but left it at work. I can see us keeping:

3 QB's
4 RB's
1 FB
6 WR's
4 TE's
9 OL

8 DL
6 LB's
4 CB's
5 safeties

Add in 3 special teamers and that's 53.

[JasonCampbell]

I worked up a profile of number of players at each position but left it at work. I can see us keeping:

3 QB's
4 RB's
1 FB
6 WR's
4 TE's
9 OL

8 DL
6 LB's
4 CB's
5 safeties

Add in 3 special teamers and that's 53.

4 corners seems really light consider the injury Rogers is coming off of. I'd rather see 4 safeties and 5 CBs. Of course I'd also like to see Rock cut, but that ain't gunna happen.

[hail2skins]

4 corners seems really light consider the injury Rogers is coming off of. I'd rather see 4 safeties and 5 CBs. Of course I'd also like to see Rock cut, but that ain't gunna happen.That might be what I had. Not too sure. Tried to recall it from memory.

[bergiemoore]

That might be what I had. Not too sure. Tried to recall it from memory.

I'd also see 3 TEs and 9 DLinemen, in addition to the safety/corner swap. I just don't think Jason Goode is worth more to the Skins than someone like Jackson or Wilson, especially during the year. Goode is a perfect candidate for the PS.

[shally]

I'd also see 3 TEs and 9 DLinemen, in addition to the safety/corner swap. I just don't think Jason Goode is worth more to the Skins than someone like Jackson or Wilson, especially during the year. Goode is a perfect candidate for the PS.

absolutely true... no reason to carry 4 tight ends, and he is clearly a notch behind the other 3....

i do see a small possibility that a team like the giants could snatch him off our PS.. losing shockey has left a hole that the reserves and Boss have not yet filled...

[BigHairedAristocrat]

For weeks, i've been feeling that we NEEDED to keep 7LBs due to the fact that our top 4 are old and/or have injury concerns. However, when looking at the potential linebackers who would make our roster as the 7th, i can't come up with names of guys who wouldnt be COMPLETELY SAFE on the practice squad. Given that, my projected allotment for our final 53 is now:

26 Offensive Players
3 QB's
4 RB's
1 FB
6 WR's
3 TE's
9 OL

24 Defensive Players
9 DL
6 LB's
5 CB's
4 S

3 Special Teams


Ideally, i'd like to sacrifice a 4th RB or 6th WR (sorry Rock or McMullen) for a 10th DB. I understand all the arguments for keeping Rock and a 6th WR, but I am more worried about our defensive backfield.

Landry's hammy worries me. Doughty sucks in coverage. Roger's knee has recovered too quickly for me to accept he's back at 100% or even close to it. Springs and Smoot can't make it through a 16 game season without missing games due to injuries. Horton and Moore have looked great, but Moore is coming off an injury as well. Tryon is garaunteed a roster spot, but he's done nothing to show me he's ready to play in the NFL. Presently, Richardson and Hamilton are bound for the practice squad. Hamilton might last there, but Richardson wont. Whether we kept Hamilton, Fox, or Richardson on the roster (or perhaps a guy cut from another team), I don't know. But I think we would be wise to consider keeping 10 DBs. Having 4RBs and 6WRs is a luxury I simply think we can't afford right now.

Mix's injury and lack of playing time in the pre-season has actually been good for us. It means we could put him on the practice squad and its likely no one will touch him. When healthy, I think Mix could be just as productive as McMullen on offense and he would definitely be better on special teams. Why eat up a spot on the active roster with McMullen, when we could keep a guy on the PS who has far more potential?

[hail2skins]

Now that I'm at work, this is what I had:

QB 3
RB 4
FB 1
WR 6
TE 3
OL 9
DL 8
LB 6
CB 5
S 5
P 1
K 1
LS 1

26 players on offense
24 on defense
3 special teamers.

[Hr fan]

Now that I'm at work, this is what I had:

QB 3
RB 4
FB 1
WR 6
TE 3
OL 9
DL 8
LB 6
CB 5
S 5
P 1
K 1
LS 1

26 players on offense
24 on defense
3 special teamers.

While I think 10 DB is an overkill, it could well turn out this way, particularly if LL doesn't improve in a big hurry.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Vernon Fox should not make this team. Especially after Saturday night.

[BurgundyNGold]

Sinclair?

Really???

[JasonCampbell]

Sinclair?

Really???

Yeah...our linebacker depth is just terrible. As bad as he is, he'll probably make the team and deserve to just because we need him.

Hopefully we load up in the draft next year at LB like we did at safety this past draft.

[colkurtz]

I keep seeing the man-love for Mix and keep waiting for the guy to actually do something besides being 6'5". Hey, we've fixed that spot with our new draft rookies. What has he done?

McMullen had some catches in the PS game, then dropped a couple. Again, not sure why we justify a spot for him.

As we've talked about, I'd much rather keep Mason than either of these WR, who've been unable to make in on another team and not doing that much here except generating fan noise due to their "potential".

[bergiemoore]

I keep seeing the man-love for Mix and keep waiting for the guy to actually do something besides being 6'5". Hey, we've fixed that spot with our new draft rookies. What has he done?

McMullen had some catches in the PS game, then dropped a couple. Again, not sure why we justify a spot for him.

As we've talked about, I'd much rather keep Mason than either of these WR, who've been unable to make in on another team and not doing that much here except generating fan noise due to their "potential".

McMullen has more receiving yards than all but 3 other players in the NFL this preseason. While this doesn't exactly translate directly into the regular season, it's clear that he's out-performed the rookies, both of which are guaranteed roster spots. He's a 4-year that has plenty of experience in the WCO and could prove useful as the #4 receiver, since it doesn't seem like either Thomas or Kelly are going to be ready to go at the start of the season. The number 4 receiver is important for this offense in which each of the first 3 receivers have missed games over the previous season to injury. McMullen is also a bigger guy that is decent catching the ball in traffic. His size makes him a better option in the redzone than the #1 and #2 receivers on the team.

With Thomas and Kelly both seriously behind in their development and the bevy of injuries that plagued the WR corp last year, the Skins may feel that they need to carry another viable option at WR. If this calculus holds, and that will depend largely on the rookies, then I figure that it's McMullen's job.

It is also entirely possible that Zorn decides to keep 6 WRs by scheme, and not just out of necessity.

[Brokenstriker]

can't see it the way he sees it. I think ...

3 TE/FB: cut Yoder (Sellers can play TE, and OL can be an emergency TE) this one hurts, Yoder's been delivering the goods lately

No Fox: Springs at safety when and if you need the #4 safety

No McMullen: #5 and #6 WR need to be team guys, that makes Mix the right choice as well as Tharp. Only question is do you go with 5 or 6

Cartwright: he's loved but he's the 4th best RB out of that crowd and he's stuck at the line too often. If they can find another roster guy to be the returner he's gone.

This gives you 3 positions consider keeping some of these guys who I think we should try hard to keep ...
Jackson
Wilson
Crummey
Richardson

[BigHairedAristocrat]

can't see it the way he sees it. I think ...

3 TE/FB: cut Yoder (Sellers can play TE, and OL can be an emergency TE) this one hurts, Yoder's been delivering the goods lately

No Fox: Springs at safety when and if you need the #4 safety

No McMullen: #5 and #6 WR need to be team guys, that makes Mix the right choice as well as Tharp. Only question is do you go with 5 or 6

Cartwright: he's loved but he's the 4th best RB out of that crowd and he's stuck at the line too often. If they can find another roster guy to be the returner he's gone.

This gives you 3 positions consider keeping some of these guys who I think we should try hard to keep ...
Jackson
Wilson
Crummey
Richardson

No way does a WCO offense go with only 2 TEs and 5WR. Crummey will be fine on the practice squad. If Wilson can't beat out Rob Jackson for a spot, then he doesnt deserve to be on the roster anyways. Richardson deserves a spot, and i think we do need to carry 10DBs, but I wouldnt keep a 10th DB at the expense of a 3rd TE. Its just too risky.

[Brokenstriker]

Sellers is as much of a TE as any TE, just because he can play and usually plays FB doesn't mean he can't be the 3rd TE. Not too many formations (none that I can think of) that line up 3 TE.

I know its a stretch ... my angle is the desire to keep some of the promising younger players instead of aging role/depth players that aren't that special.

[Brokenstriker]

agree about 6 WRs ... didn't take one away in clearing up 3 spots for the younger guys on the fringe. 3 based on Yoder, Cartwright and Fox.

[bergiemoore]

No way does a WCO offense go with only 2 TEs and 5WR. Crummey will be fine on the practice squad. If Wilson can't beat out Rob Jackson for a spot, then he doesnt deserve to be on the roster anyways. Richardson deserves a spot, and i think we do need to carry 10DBs, but I wouldnt keep a 10th DB at the expense of a 3rd TE. Its just too risky.

I agree that Yoder sticks. Goode will be safe on the practice squad.

I don't think that the Skins will keep 10 DBs, however. If Williams were still DC, then maybe, for his patented Cover-10 formation, but not with Blache. I'd much rather see the Skins keep 4 Safeties and 5 Corners, and rely on the DLine to get after the QB. Richardson is a very physical CB, but gets picked on a lot in coverage. He had trouble wrapping up in the Jets' game, but so did a majority of the secondary. A majority of Richardson's highlights came at the expense of guys who will be pumping gas for a living in the next 2 weeks. I'd like to see him in the first half of a game before I jump on his bandwagon. Tryon gets burnt to cinders while playing against 1st and 2nd stringers but is always around the play (albeit a step or 2 behind it). He's a sure tackler, and is a very raw talent. Either one of those guys could fill in as the 5th CB, while the other would be safe to go to the PS.

IMO, the 9th DLine slot is an open competition between Jackson and Wilson, with Jackson outperforming Wilson.

[bergiemoore]

Sellers is as much of a TE as any TE, just because he can play and usually plays FB doesn't mean he can't be the 3rd TE. Not too many formations (none that I can think of) that line up 3 TE.

I know its a stretch ... my angle is the desire to keep some of the promising younger players instead of aging role/depth players that aren't that special.

Jumbo formations use 3 TEs and a fullback.

Other 3 TEs sets by the Steelers here (http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=764)

[skinsfan36]

lol if only jlc could count. fox on the team.geisinger making it i agree with if he plays strongly over the next two

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Jumbo packages aside, Two TE sets are staples of the west coast offense. If our lone fullback is also our third TE, and one of those guys got hurt, it would likely eliminate atleast a quarter of our playbook. Given the fact that Jansen is utter garbage at this point, he is going to need all the help he can get. Assuming we only carry 1 FB, I would sooner go with 2 QBs on the roster than 2TEs.

Also, I dont see any way we go with only 8 D-linemen. As you said, Jackson and Wilson are likely battling for the last spot. Jackson would seem to get the nod here, but Jackson has PS-eligability and Wilson did get 4 sacks last year... I think Wilson gets a longer leash.

Who we keep on defense will tell us alot about Blache and what positions and type of personnel he values (eg vets vs rookies, smarts vs toughness, heart vs talent, etc.)

[shally]

Sinclair?

Really???

fine special teamer..worth a spot from that perspective, and has a better upside than K campbell

[HanburgerBum]

Now that I'm at work, this is what I had:

QB 3
RB 4
FB 1
WR 6
TE 3
OL 9
DL 8
LB 6
CB 5
S 5
P 1
K 1
LS 1

26 players on offense
24 on defense
3 special teamers.


I can see carrying 10 DBs because of Landry's lingering injury status and because DBs make good special teamers, but in the instant situation, the team has to find room to keep Rob Jackson. If James is healthy enough to carry on the final 53, that might mean carrying 9 Dlinemen in order to protect Jackson. That 9th spot has to come at the expense of a 6th WR or a 10th DB.

True, Jackson's flashes have come mostly against 2nd stringers. But, pass rushers are just so valuable it would be foolish to risk exposing him to waivers. On the other hand, there should be no problem sneaking a DB like Richardson or Hamilton onto the PS.

[BurgundyNGold]

fine special teamer..worth a spot from that perspective, and has a better upside than K campbell
No, he doesn't. Sinclair has less than no speed and takes bad angles. He can't play anything aside from maybe MLB, of which we already have 2. If he makes this team, it'll be an indictment of just how thin we are at MLB. Give me Fincher over Sinclair any day.

[VegasSkinsFan]

No, he doesn't. Sinclair has less than no speed and takes bad angles. He can't play anything aside from maybe MLB, of which we already have 2. If he makes this team, it'll be an indictment of just how thin we are at MLB. Give me Fincher over Sinclair any day.

Agreed, Fincher over Sinclair. Wont surprise me at all if we pick up a vet lb before game 1. I really thought khary campbell would be a cut, but the backup lb's have been nothing special. I hope that gatewood at least gets a ps spot. There will be a surprise cut from another team that might possibly be of value to us. GO SKINS !!!!!

[Brokenstriker]

Jumbo formations use 3 TEs and a fullback.

Other 3 TEs sets by the Steelers here (http://www.postgameheroes.com/?p=764)

fair enough ... line up Heyer, Rinehart or Fabini at "TE" in the jumbo ... jumbo isn't going to put 3 TE's into pass routes ... they really just need the tackles character of the TE role for jumbo

[Warpath23]

IMO Richardson is the 4th best corner on the team. I would be a shame to release him & keep Fox. Jackson is practice squad bound because of E.James & J.Taylor. I dont know about Tryon she seems lost out there at times so keeping him on the active roster would be a pride thing. Fincher should make the squad & Sinclair is PS bound to me.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

I'd like to see Mix and Jackson get the nod. I'm assuming both rookie safeties are a lock. I also like what I've read about Crummey in here.

[BurgundyNGold]

Agreed, Fincher over Sinclair. Wont surprise me at all if we pick up a vet lb before game 1. I really thought khary campbell would be a cut, but the backup lb's have been nothing special. I hope that gatewood at least gets a ps spot. There will be a surprise cut from another team that might possibly be of value to us. GO SKINS !!!!!
I agree about Gatewood. If we'd keep Sinclair to be an Ade Jimoh-type "OMG, I hope he never, ever gets near the field!" kind of backup, we might as well keep Gatewood of Fincher for their upside. We'd have the same sentiment in either case, but those other players have the physical tools to possibly develop into a keeper, where Sinclair will not.

[bergiemoore]

fair enough ... line up Heyer, Rinehart or Fabini at "TE" in the jumbo ... jumbo isn't going to put 3 TE's into pass routes ... they really just need the tackles character of the TE role for jumbo

What about all the other 3 TEs sets in the link where at least 2 if not all 3 were running pass routes? Yoder has been nothing but solid since he came to D.C., and the Skins are going to keep at least 3 TEs on the roster. I don't expect Zorn to telegraph plays to opposing defenses as Gibbs did by lining up DTs as an eligible down lineman.