This Ole Fart Thinks - Week #1

[hail2skins]

Well, the old man is really still smoking about Thursday’s game. To keep it in perspective, yes, it is only one game. Yes, it was a loss to the Superbowl champions. Yes, the Meadowlands is
a tough place for Redskin teams to play. Yes, it was Zorn’s first game and Campbell’s first
game back from injury and a lot of real game inactivity, and I dont think we sustained any really bad injuries, but…



Read it here (http://www.hailredskins.com/?p=578)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

So uh shally, what do you really think about our offense? Impressive huh?


Honestly, based on what we saw Thursday night, if things don't change dramatically and immediately, all signs point to your revised prediction being correct.

[Keino]

In defense of Smoot on the 1st INT attempt, that ball got on him quick. I was surprised, after seeing the replay, that he was able to get two hands on the ball.

Now the one where Carlos jumped that route....WOW. That was pick 6 if he holds on to the ball.


Our defense needs to make these plays while our offense struggles.

[Red Bear]

In defense of Smoot on the 1st INT attempt, that ball got on him quick. I was surprised, after seeing the replay, that he was able to get two hands on the ball.

Now the one where Carlos jumped that route....WOW. That was pick 6 if he holds on to the ball.


Our defense needs to make these plays while our offense struggles.

did you see the speed rogers displayed on that play when jumping the route? i agree it was a pick 6 because no one was catching him had he caught it. he seems to have no ill effects of his surgery so far, which is huge for us as a defense

[thenewposse]

I have to agree with your pprediction. After the game I felt bad, but after watching the rest of the NFL on Sunday I actually feel worse. Did anyone see Deshaun Jackson and Eddie Royal just dominate? Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't these guys drafted after Thomas and Kelly? I also saw several first time head coaches/quarterbacks in a new system that looked good. It seemed that these coaches were able to adapt and allow their players to play to their strengths. If our guys haven't grasped the system yet then incorporate somethings that they are comfortable with until they get it. I really don't think the issues the offense has are correctable in a couple of weeks. I really feel for Clinton Portis we are wasting his talent with below average recievers and a QB unable to find any consistency. Maybe the defense can make some plays and force some turnovers giving us a short field, but I just can't see this offense sustaining too many drives and unfortunately that leaves our D on the field way too much to really be effective. I honestly believe that when its all said and done that the Giants won't be all that good either and that as much as I hate to say it that the Cowgirls and eggles will be the class of not only the East but the entire NFC.

[Lavar703]

I have to agree with your pprediction. After the game I felt bad, but after watching the rest of the NFL on Sunday I actually feel worse. Did anyone see Deshaun Jackson and Eddie Royal just dominate? Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't these guys drafted after Thomas and Kelly? I also saw several first time head coaches/quarterbacks in a new system that looked good. It seemed that these coaches were able to adapt and allow their players to play to their strengths. If our guys haven't grasped the system yet then incorporate somethings that they are comfortable with until they get it. I really don't think the issues the offense has are correctable in a couple of weeks. I really feel for Clinton Portis we are wasting his talent with below average recievers and a QB unable to find any consistency. Maybe the defense can make some plays and force some turnovers giving us a short field, but I just can't see this offense sustaining too many drives and unfortunately that leaves our D on the field way too much to really be effective. I honestly believe that when its all said and done that the Giants won't be all that good either and that as much as I hate to say it that the Cowgirls and eggles will be the class of not only the East but the entire NFC.


As much as i like Eddie Royal (hokie fan), he did nothing at VAtech to even be considered a second round pick. What he has done so far with the broncos, including the preseason, has suprised the heck out of me, honestly i never saw anything like this coming from him, because he definately didnt do it at tech. Then again, Sean Glennon was throwing him the ball.

[flave1969]

I have pretty much held my tongue on this whole Campbell issue but I simply cannot fathom why so much of your ire is falling on JC

You keep saying he made no plays and yes on paper that is true, but as has been pointed out by even yourself Campbell upheld his part on a number of plays not least the Thrash drop and the perfect deep ball that Moss gave up position on. Both times defenders were beat only for poor receiver play to let Campbell down. Is that Campbells fault? Santana Moss had Aaron Ross beaten, he only has continue his route and maintain postion and it is a potential TD or Pass Interference. I want to know how that is Campbell's fault. Thrash has a perfectly catchable ball inside the 10 yard line. Is that Campbell's fault?

Why are you not screaming at the receivers for not getting to the down markers. I am not saying that Campbell is absolved of all blame but nor is he totally to blame. The big difference is that the Giants were not cedeing 10 yards in coverage at the snap as our Secondary was.

Same old, same old. We have the same group of receivers that Campbell wasn’t comfortable throwing to last year, with the addition of a green-as-grass Thomas, who won’t likely be an impact player until next year at the earliest. If JC didn’t trust Moss last year, why should he trust him now? If Thrash can’t get open or can’t hold onto a ball that hits him in the shoulders, he should not be number 3. If Antwaan Randle-El runs crossing routes on third down that don’t reach the first down marker, or cant convert third downs or get open, JC is going to be pulling the ball down all season.

You see you write something like this and you give three answers as to why JC struggled in this game. I would like you to find me one QB in the NFL that would not struggle in these circumstances.

I have not even mentioned the O line and I thought they were awful throughout. you talk about pocket presence but what consistent Pocket was there to sit in. Geez we threw a sum total of 12 passes in the first 54 minutes of the game. Go back and look at the three passes on 3rd Down in the second half, two to Moss and the one to Thomas, please tell me what else Campbell had open and then maybe I will agree with you.

I wnated to say nothing but it makes no sense to me to accept big faults in the line and the receiving core, yet seemingly reserve all your ire for JC.

Otherwise spot on write up.
.

[Moe]

As much as i like Eddie Royal (hokie fan), he did nothing at VAtech to even be considered a second round pick. What he has done so far with the broncos, including the preseason, has suprised the heck out of me, honestly i never saw anything like this coming from him, because he definately didnt do it at tech. Then again, Sean Glennon was throwing him the ball.

...and he wasn't playing the Raiders ;)

In passing this morning I saw a post game quip from Cutler about how Royal just "kept on beating Hall over and over and over..."pretty funny but not terribly surprising considering that nature of that rivalry (one sided as it may be).

[redwolf1218]

I have pretty much held my tongue on this whole Campbell issue but I simply cannot fathom why so much of your ire is falling on JC

You keep saying he made no plays and yes on paper that is true, but as has been pointed out by even yourself Campbell upheld his part on a number of plays not least the Thrash drop and the perfect deep ball that Moss gave up position on. Both times defenders were beat only for poor receiver play to let Campbell down. Is that Campbells fault? Santana Moss had Aaron Ross beaten, he only has continue his route and maintain postion and it is a potential TD or Pass Interference. I want to know how that is Campbell's fault. Thrash has a perfectly catchable ball inside the 10 yard line. Is that Campbell's fault?

Why are you not screaming at the receivers for not getting to the down markers. I am not saying that Campbell is absolved of all blame but nor is he totally to blame. The big difference is that the Giants were not cedeing 10 yards in coverage at the snap as our Secondary was.



You see you write something like this and you give three answers as to why JC struggled in this game. I would like you to find me one QB in the NFL that would not struggle in these circumstances.

I have not even mentioned the O line and I thought they were awful throughout. you talk about pocket presence but what consistent Pocket was there to sit in. Geez we threw a sum total of 12 passes in the first 54 minutes of the game. Go back and look at the three passes on 3rd Down in the second half, two to Moss and the one to Thomas, please tell me what else Campbell had open and then maybe I will agree with you.

I wnated to say nothing but it makes no sense to me to accept big faults in the line and the receiving core, yet seemingly reserve all your ire for JC.

Otherwise spot on write up.
.

good points, but you cant say "spot on" after a post like this...;)

i am at the point of wondering which position to address with a top ten pick in next year's draft. i do not think QB would be wise, as i'm willing to stick with Campbell and Colt for the near future.

[shally]

i thought about what i wrote for a couple of days, especially in view of my harsh words for campbell.. although i know it wasnt entirely his fault, i still subscribe to the concept that no player on the team is more important than the qb, and as he goes, so goes the team.

i bet he looks better as thomas and kelly get integrated fully into the offense. but if that is true, we wont get much improvement until long after the season is lost. if that is the case, the timing may be terrible for an extension to his contract, which realistically should be in place he latter portion of this year.

sometimes, your qb just has to make a play to keep a drive alive or to win a play. going 5 for 11 is fine up to that point, but you have to convert when you have the opportunity.. right now campbell has not demonstrated that capacity.

one game.. that is all.. so let's see if campbell can turn it around against the saints.. the next 2 games take on increased importance because of the way the schedule unfolds. if we are going to be much of a factor in the nfc east, we need to winthe next two home games

[shally]

good points, but you cant say "spot on" after a post like this...;)

i am at the point of wondering which position to address with a top ten pick in next year's draft. i do not think QB would be wise, as i'm willing to stick with Campbell and Colt for the near future.

if campbell fails, after shuler and ramsey, i would think that snyder has had enough of college qb's and goes the route of trying to find a young qb on the cusp of solid play, such as delhomme, bulger or brees. cerrato would have the final say, but i think snyder would lean hard against going that route..

[Cutter]

You keep saying he made no plays and yes on paper that is true, but as has been pointed out by even yourself Campbell upheld his part on a number of plays not least the Thrash drop and the perfect deep ball that Moss gave up position on. Both times defenders were beat only for poor receiver play to let Campbell down. Is that Campbells fault? Santana Moss had Aaron Ross beaten, he only has continue his route and maintain postion and it is a potential TD or Pass Interference. I want to know how that is Campbell's fault. Thrash has a perfectly catchable ball inside the 10 yard line. Is that Campbell's fault?
.

I can't defend any passes that were dropped. However, that deep ball to Moss was WAY late. Had Campbell thrown the ball on time Moss would have scored. Campbell got scared, ran around needlessly, realised he missed the shot, and then threw it with a look of fear in his eyes. It served to highlight his ineptness rather than his ability. Don't use THAT play to defend JC.

[Cutter]

if campbell fails, after shuler and ramsey, i would think that snyder has had enough of college qb's and goes the route of trying to find a young qb on the cusp of solid play, such as delhomme, bulger or brees. cerrato would have the final say, but i think snyder would lean hard against going that route..

That's a very interesting line of thinking. However, who's contract is expiring this off season?

[Keino]

I can't defend any passes that were dropped. However, that deep ball to Moss was WAY late. Had Campbell thrown the ball on time Moss would have scored. Campbell got scared, ran around needlessly, realised he missed the shot, and then threw it with a look of fear in his eyes. It served to highlight his ineptness rather than his ability. Don't use THAT play to defend JC.

Maybe it was late because he had to dodge a tackler. Moss gave up on the play. Yes he took too long to set and throw, but he didn't run around needlessly on that play he made a good play to avoid a sack.

[redskin_rich]

if campbell fails, after shuler and ramsey, i would think that snyder has had enough of college qb's and goes the route of trying to find a young qb on the cusp of solid play, such as delhomme, bulger or brees. cerrato would have the final say, but i think snyder would lean hard against going that route..
Shuler was long gone before the Danny bought this team. And I don't think Ramsey or Campbell were necessarily choices that Snyder wanted. If I recall correctly, Snyder was trying hard to trade up and get Harrington but when he couldn't get a deal, he moved down and settled for Ramsey. Campbell was purely a Gibbs choice.

I think if Campbell falters and plays himself out of the starting position, Snyder would be on the "get Colt ready to play" bandwagon. The kid is already the most marketable 3rd string/project QB to ever play. The Danny has to notice that.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Shuler was long gone before the Danny bought this team. And I don't think Ramsey or Campbell were necessarily choices that Snyder wanted. If I recall correctly, Snyder was trying hard to trade up and get Harrington but when he couldn't get a deal, he moved down and settled for Ramsey. Campbell was purely a Gibbs choice.

I think if Campbell falters and plays himself out of the starting position, Snyder would be on the "get Colt ready to play" bandwagon. The kid is already the most marketable 3rd string/project QB to ever play. The Danny has to notice that.

Terrific. Then we become the Miami Dolphins. I'll look forward to predicting our one or two wins a year.

[redskin_rich]

Terrific. Then we become the Miami Dolphins. I'll look forward to predicting our one or two wins a year.

I'm not sure what your point is. I was just replying to Shally's post about what direction this team may go for their next QB if need be.

[flave1969]

I can't defend any passes that were dropped. However, that deep ball to Moss was WAY late. Had Campbell thrown the ball on time Moss would have scored. Campbell got scared, ran around needlessly, realised he missed the shot, and then threw it with a look of fear in his eyes. It served to highlight his ineptness rather than his ability. Don't use THAT play to defend JC.

Sorry but that just isn't true. Campbell took time because as he stepped up in the pocket his collar was grabbed by the defender, he could not have made the throw any other way. Whats more Santana having sold Ross to the outside superbly, then gave up on the play and let Ross regain position, had Santana carried on as Receivers are supposed to do he would have had the position that Ross occupied if not better. That would have left Ross either having to make a brilliant play or more likely cause some kind of interference.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'm not sure what your point is. I was just replying to Shally's post about what direction this team may go for their next QB if need be.

Having Colt play before he is ready.

[redskin_rich]

Having Colt play before he is ready.

I think they would go with Collins for a while first, until they thought Colt was ready. I just don't think they will be shopping/trading for another stopgap along the way.

[Keino]

Sorry but that just isn't true. Campbell took time because as he stepped up in the pocket his collar was grabbed by the defender, he could not have made the throw any other way. Whats more Santana having sold Ross to the outside superbly, then gave up on the play and let Ross regain position, had Santana carried on as Receivers are supposed to do he would have had the position that Ross occupied if not better. That would have left Ross either having to make a brilliant play or more likely cause some kind of interference.

Exactly correct.

If the WR completes his job, then we aren't even having the discussion. Run the whole route, then break back.

[AliBabba]

Exactly correct.

If the WR completes his job, then we aren't even having the discussion. Run the whole route, then break back.
this play pissed me off so much ... Santana Moss has been nothing but a let down for us for a while now

[shally]

Shuler was long gone before the Danny bought this team. And I don't think Ramsey or Campbell were necessarily choices that Snyder wanted. If I recall correctly, Snyder was trying hard to trade up and get Harrington but when he couldn't get a deal, he moved down and settled for Ramsey. Campbell was purely a Gibbs choice.

I think if Campbell falters and plays himself out of the starting position, Snyder would be on the "get Colt ready to play" bandwagon. The kid is already the most marketable 3rd string/project QB to ever play. The Danny has to notice that.

if that were the case, expect to keep collins for at least 1 more year to ease the transition..

[Cutter]

Maybe it was late because he had to dodge a tackler. Moss gave up on the play. Yes he took too long to set and throw, but he didn't run around needlessly on that play he made a good play to avoid a sack.

After he evaded the "pressure" (all he had to do was not drift and there wouldn't have been any pressure) and stepped up in the pocket he patted the ball while he admired just how toasted Ross was, took an enormous wind up and threw it. Don't drift, step up, deliver the ball on time, go home and EFF your beauty queen GF while I sing your praises. Hell, just take the pat out of the equation and that's likely enough. After the evade he got the happy feet.

Happy feet FTL.

[esmith1790]

if campbell fails, after shuler and ramsey, i would think that snyder has had enough of college qb's and goes the route of trying to find a young qb on the cusp of solid play, such as delhomme, bulger or brees. cerrato would have the final say, but i think snyder would lean hard against going that route..

Who would be a good candidate? Brady Quinn?

[Keino]

After he evaded the "pressure" (all he had to do was not drift and there wouldn't have been any pressure) and stepped up in the pocket he patted the ball while he admired just how toasted Ross was, took an enormous wind up and threw it. Don't drift, step up, deliver the ball on time, go home and EFF your beauty queen GF while I sing your praises. Hell, just take the pat out of the equation and that's likely enough. After the evade he got the happy feet.

Happy feet FTL.

And Still, if his WR never quits on the play, we aren't having the discussion.

It must be great only being able to see what you want to see. I wish I could do that......

And yes, he took too long to get it there, but his WR had already quit on the route.....

[Cutter]

I'd totally snatch Quinn for a 3rd. I doubt we could get him that cheap though.

[Cutter]

And Still, if his WR never quits on the play, we aren't having the discussion.

It must be great only being able to see what you want to see. I wish I could do that......

And yes, he took too long to get it there, but his WR had already quit on the route.....

He took so long, he had time to see Moss quit on the route. He threw it anyway. Raise your hand if you're a QB that scored a 14 on the wonderlic before you threw the ball to a non-running WR on a deep route.

[Lavar703]

After he evaded the "pressure" (all he had to do was not drift and there wouldn't have been any pressure) and stepped up in the pocket he patted the ball while he admired just how toasted Ross was, took an enormous wind up and threw it. Don't drift, step up, deliver the ball on time, go home and EFF your beauty queen GF while I sing your praises. Hell, just take the pat out of the equation and that's likely enough. After the evade he got the happy feet.

Happy feet FTL.

I really dont think you know much about football, im not even trying to be a jerk, i just think your level of intelligence to this game is very low. You hold a ball, have somebody run down a field and ill grab your shirt and yank on it as hard as i can and you try to hit that person in stride, if you can do it than you need to get your butt to Redskins park immediately. He had to move out of the pocket because he had no time, oh wait, in your world a real NFL QB doesnt even need an Oline. Hows that Brennan jersey fittin' ya cutter?

[Cutter]

Hows that Brennan jersey fittin' ya cutter?

Better than your worthless Campbell jersey will in two seasons. Kiss your man crush goodbye.

FYI, when he was actually throwing it, no one was anywhere near him. Nor was there anyone near him while he did his happy feet dance.

[Lavar703]

He took so long, he had time to see Moss quit on the route. He threw it anyway. Raise your hand if you're a QB that scored a 14 on the wonderlic before you threw the ball to a non-running WR on a deep route.

Actually he threw the ball before he stopped and Moss didnt realize it, he turned around and saw the ball in the air and started running again.

[Cutter]

Actually he threw the ball before he stopped and Moss didnt realize it, he turned around and saw the ball in the air and started running again.

That play clearly demonstrates so many things that are bad about JC. It's usually just not caught on TV. Brandon Lloyd beat guys constantly and JC held the ball too long or put it in a bad place or missed him altogether. Anyone notice BL played pretty well against the Colts with Kyle Freakin' Orton throwing to him as a depth receiver? He he got his JC given season total in catches that night in a deplorable situation.

Oh but you're right... it's the pro bowl receiver derailing him.

[Lavar703]

Better than your worthless Campbell jersey will in two seasons. Kiss your man crush goodbye.

FYI, when he was actually throwing it, no one was anywhere near him. Nor was there anyone near him while he did his happy feet dance.

He had to move out of the pocket to throw the ball though, but by that time Moss had already quit on the play. His Oline gives him no time and his WR quits on the play yet you still blame Campbell for the unsuccesful play, do you see anything wrong with that?

[Lavar703]

That play clearly demonstrates so many things that are bad about JC. It's usually just not caught on TV. Brandon Lloyd beat guys constantly and JC held the ball too long or put it in a bad place or missed him altogether. Anyone notice BL played pretty well against the Colts with Kyle Freakin' Orton throwing to him as a depth receiver? He he got his JC given season total in catches that night in a deplorable situation.

Oh but you're right... it's the pro bowl receiver derailing him.

2 catches for 26 yards and thats pretty well? I guess thats pretty good for Lloyd though.

[Lavar703]

That play clearly demonstrates so many things that are bad about JC. It's usually just not caught on TV. Brandon Lloyd beat guys constantly and JC held the ball too long or put it in a bad place or missed him altogether. Anyone notice BL played pretty well against the Colts with Kyle Freakin' Orton throwing to him as a depth receiver? He he got his JC given season total in catches that night in a deplorable situation.

Oh but you're right... it's the pro bowl receiver derailing him.

Moss hasnt been a pro bowl reciver for three seasons, get over it. I was a huge Moss fan from his days in Miami and was so mad when we passed on him for Gardner but hes not a big time player. He drops too many passes and has dropped so many pretty deep balls from Campbell its ridiculous.

[Cutter]

He caused the pressure. Total time with the ball in his hands was like 7 seconds(probably 5 or 6 but it felt like damn near forever). When he finally threw the ball there was an excellent pocket with no one anywhere near him. While late, he still managed to rush the throw. It was really an epic failure on so many levels.

2 catches in a game in which you don't start, are a Bear, and have Orton throwing to you is exceptional. That's like a whole year with JC throwing it to him.

[Lavar703]

He caused the pressure. Total time with the ball in his hands was like 7 seconds(probably 5 or 6 but it felt like damn near forever). When he finally threw the ball there was an excellent pocket with no one anywhere near him. While late, he still managed to rush the throw. It was really an epic failure on so many levels.

2 catches in a game in which you don't start, are a Bear, and have Orton throwing to you is exceptional. That's like a whole year with JC throwing it to him.

How is it an epic failure if he has no time and his WR quits on the play. Your argument for his failure is that he took to much time even though he had to elude pass rushers and still was able to get off a beautiful deep ball that Moss didnt even make a real play for. Your hatred of Campbell clearly clouds your judgement.

[skin4ever]

Everyone says Moss quit on that play, Zorn addressed this(i think its inthe skins blog and he said it at his PC) Moss thought Campbell was sacked, so he slowed up. I understand that Moss has quite on past plays, and so forth, but this isnt Peter and the Wolf. The play just didnt happen. That play was just one of those plays that didnt work out, i dont think anyone screwed up there.

[shally]

Everyone says Moss quit on that play, Zorn addressed this(i think its inthe skins blog and he said it at his PC) Moss thought Campbell was sacked, so he slowed up. I understand that Moss has quite on past plays, and so forth, but this isnt Peter and the Wolf. The play just didnt happen. That play was just one of those plays that didnt work out, i dont think anyone screwed up there.

also, isnt the rule of thumb that the receiver should start to work BACK to the qb if he senses the qb is in trouble ??

[Lavar703]

Everyone says Moss quit on that play, Zorn addressed this(i think its inthe skins blog and he said it at his PC) Moss thought Campbell was sacked, so he slowed up. I understand that Moss has quite on past plays, and so forth, but this isnt Peter and the Wolf. The play just didnt happen. That play was just one of those plays that didnt work out, i dont think anyone screwed up there.

Why is Moss running a deep route and stops because he thinks the QB is sacked?

[Lavar703]

also, isnt the rule of thumb that the receiver should start to work BACK to the qb if he senses the qb is in trouble ??

Working back is one thing, stopping is another. No excuses for moss regardless of what Zorn says, this isnt the first time Moss has quit on a play.

[Keino]

also, isnt the rule of thumb that the receiver should start to work BACK to the qb if he senses the qb is in trouble ??

Yes, but that's not what Moss did. If he broke back to the LOS, then I could by that. No, what he did was "timing's busted, I will jog the rest of the way...Oh Shhh...the ball is in the air".

Yes, JC took extra time patting the ball and deciding whether or not to take off. Moss Compounded the problem by not running his route the whole way.

[Keino]

Better than your worthless Campbell jersey will in two seasons. Kiss your man crush goodbye.

FYI, when he was actually throwing it, no one was anywhere near him. Nor was there anyone near him while he did his happy feet dance.

Nobody was near him due to his escaping the pressure.....

[jaylen]

So it goes blame the qb for everythig under the son, its happened with Ramse, Brunnell, now JC. Its the typical fan reaction.

O-line, wr's, rb's and coaching has minimal impact to how the qb performs.

JC holds the ball too long nevermind the fact that the timing routes are blown up because our pint size wr's are getting jammed. Never mind that Zorn had no feel for play calling because its all JC's fault.

Nevermind that Moss clearly stopped running on the deep route he wasn't working back towards the ball he just stopped running.

[Cutter]

How is it an epic failure if he has no time and his WR quits on the play. Your argument for his failure is that he took to much time even though he had to elude pass rushers and still was able to get off a beautiful deep ball that Moss didnt even make a real play for. Your hatred of Campbell clearly clouds your judgement.

It's epic because he failed on each level.

A) He caused the pressure.
B) After he evaded the self-created pressure, he proceed to do the Icky shuffle from, now, only imagined pressure.
C) Only after showing what Jason Taylor taught him after practice, hearing Zorn yell "THROW IT" from the sideline, staring open-mouthed at the torching Moss gave Ross, he realized Moss had stopped running.
D) So he patted the ball for good luck and sent it on it's way.

He patted the ball for good luck. What else can we expect from the guy?

[Lavar703]

It's epic because he failed on each level.

A) He caused the pressure.
B) After he evaded the self-created pressure, he proceed to do the Icky shuffle from, now, only imagined pressure.
C) Only after showing what Jason Taylor taught him after practice, hearing Zorn yell "THROW IT" from the sideline, staring open-mouthed at the torching Moss gave Ross, he realized Moss had stopped running.
D) So he patted the ball for good luck and sent it on it's way.

He patted the ball for good luck. What else can we expect from the guy?

Your delusional. He created the pressure? This is true because JC failed to pick up his block and then he danced around like Jason Taylor because thats what he felt like doing you know, that whole 7 seconds he had and guess what he kissed the ball, did a back flip and blew a cheerleader a kiss and during all that Moss stopped to watch.

[Keino]

It's epic because he failed on each level.

A) He caused the pressure.
B) After he evaded the self-created pressure, he proceed to do the Icky shuffle from, now, only imagined pressure.
C) Only after showing what Jason Taylor taught him after practice, hearing Zorn yell "THROW IT" from the sideline, staring open-mouthed at the torching Moss gave Ross, he realized Moss had stopped running.
D) So he patted the ball for good luck and sent it on it's way.

He patted the ball for good luck. What else can we expect from the guy?

Im done responding to you after this. It is obvious you just want attention. The dude didn't cause the pressure. He made two mistakes on the play. One, he took too long deciding whether or not to tuck it and run and he patted the ball before he threw it.

[Lavar703]

Im done responding to you after this. It is obvious you just want attention. The dude didn't cause the pressure. He made two mistakes on the play. One, he took too long deciding whether or not to tuck it and run and he patted the ball before he threw it.

He does indeed live up to his nickname Keino:)

[Cutter]

Why is Moss running a deep route and stops because he thinks the QB is sacked?

He thought he was sacked because he had the guy beat so badly and the ball wasn't yet in the air. He's thinking there simply MUST be a sack if the ball isn't coming... or he missed the clinic Ross got.

Campbell could have throw the ball A) Before the pressure B) After the pressure had passed C) after patting the ball D) not at all. Half those choices are good. The other half are bad.

[Lavar703]

He thought he was sacked because he had the guy beat so badly and the ball wasn't yet in the air. He's thinking there simply MUST be a sack if the ball isn't coming... or he missed the clinic Ross got.

Campbell could have throw the ball A) Before the pressure B) After the pressure had passed C) after patting the ball D) not at all. Half those choices are good. The other half are bad.

Your making things up, he was pressured almost immediately. Somtimes i wonder if you even watch the games.

[sinskin]

he was pressured immediatly and a few things went wrong on that play... from Zorn himself....

Moss quit on the play assuming the worst.. which is why we pay him millions of dollars.

Zorn blames JC for this play because he took an extra second to throw the ball after alluding the rushing defender, (who came unblocked due the fact Heyer was waving at his family in the stands), instead of heaving it like the play called for. By his mouth he said he lost track of Moss for a split second and had to find him again. This took to long and therefor boched the play.

So in essence he didnt hurry the throw.... he took to long.... Moss quit the play because they rest of the offense had allready quit in the first quarter!

[hail2skins]

After he evaded the "pressure" (all he had to do was not drift and there wouldn't have been any pressure) and stepped up in the pocket he patted the ball while he admired just how toasted Ross was, took an enormous wind up and threw it. Don't drift, step up, deliver the ball on time, go home and EFF your beauty queen GF while I sing your praises. Hell, just take the pat out of the equation and that's likely enough. After the evade he got the happy feet.

Happy feet FTL.What that stuff on this board.

[hail2skins]

He took so long, he had time to see Moss quit on the route. He threw it anyway. Raise your hand if you're a QB that scored a 14 on the wonderlic before you threw the ball to a non-running WR on a deep route.You sure do live up to that hR moniker you have. This is one of the dumbest post I've seen here in awhile. He saw his receiver give up. Give me a break.

[HanburgerBum]

I share your frustration about our offense, but I think you missed the boat if you thought Jason Campbell was the main problem. True, Campbell didn't have a great game. But, from my vantage point, the #1 culprit was the Oline. Tom Brady, when he was healthy, would have trouble performing well with our Oline.

The Oline doesn't allow Campbell to get comfortable in the pocket and doesn't give Portis enough of a crease. And, it is the worst short yardage Oline in the League. My take is that the deficiency is not readily addressible because age is the main problem. It's not going to be pretty for a while, but we might as well start rebuilding the Oline now. The sooner we get to it, the quicker we can see fruit.

The #2 culprit was the receivers. How many times did we come up 4 and 1? Receivers have to know where the 1st down marker is and get to it.

Shelly, with Campbell (playing in yet another new offensive scheme) behind the current Oline, your 5-11 projection may be on the optmistic side. If the Skins want a top-5 pick in 2009, they had better hold onto that first rounder.

[hail2skins]

Better than your worthless Campbell jersey will in two seasons. Kiss your man crush goodbye.

FYI, when he was actually throwing it, no one was anywhere near him. Nor was there anyone near him while he did his happy feet dance.

:banghead:

I'm just LMAO at this.

[hail2skins]

also, isnt the rule of thumb that the receiver should start to work BACK to the qb if he senses the qb is in trouble ??Not if you're running the pattern he was running.

[hail2skins]

Yes, but that's not what Moss did. If he broke back to the LOS, then I could by that. No, what he did was "timing's busted, I will jog the rest of the way...Oh Shhh...the ball is in the air".

Yes, JC took extra time patting the ball and deciding whether or not to take off. Moss Compounded the problem by not running his route the whole way.I agree with what you're saying but I don't think the route he was running would allow it much like an out or in or crossing pattern. Just my 2.

[sinskin]

I share your frustration about our offense, but I think you missed the boat if you thought Jason Campbell was the main problem. True, Campbell didn't have a great game. But, from my vantage point, the #1 culprit was the Oline. Tom Brady, when he was healthy, would have trouble performing well with our Oline.

The Oline doesn't allow Campbell to get comfortable in the pocket and doesn't give Portis enough of a crease. And, it is the worst short yardage Oline in the League. My take is that the deficiency is not readily addressible because age is the main problem. It's not going to be pretty for a while, but we might as well start rebuilding the Oline now. The sooner we get to it, the quicker we can see fruit.

The #2 culprit was the receivers. How many times did we come up 4 and 1? Receivers have to know where the 1st down marker is and get to it.

Shelly, with Campbell (playing in yet another new offensive scheme) behind the current Oline, your 5-11 projection may be on the optmistic side. If the Skins want a top-5 pick in 2009, they had better hold onto that first rounder.


Gibbs always said with a great O-line like the Hogs he could take any of the top 50 QB's and win

That says it all.

[shally]

Not if you're running the pattern he was running.

i think all routes allow for a receiver to come back if the qb is in trouble..
I agree with what you're saying but I don't think the route he was running would allow it much like an out or in or crossing pattern. Just my 2.

i think the basic problem was that moss was simply running his own route at that point.. clearly that incomplete is on moss and not JC

[OCSKINSFAN]

I share your frustration about our offense, but I think you missed the boat if you thought Jason Campbell was the main problem. True, Campbell didn't have a great game. But, from my vantage point, the #1 culprit was the Oline. Tom Brady, when he was healthy, would have trouble performing well with our Oline.

The Oline doesn't allow Campbell to get comfortable in the pocket and doesn't give Portis enough of a crease. And, it is the worst short yardage Oline in the League. My take is that the deficiency is not readily addressible because age is the main problem. It's not going to be pretty for a while, but we might as well start rebuilding the Oline now. The sooner we get to it, the quicker we can see fruit.

The #2 culprit was the receivers. How many times did we come up 4 and 1? Receivers have to know where the 1st down marker is and get to it.

Shelly, with Campbell (playing in yet another new offensive scheme) behind the current Oline, your 5-11 projection may be on the optmistic side. If the Skins want a top-5 pick in 2009, they had better hold onto that first rounder.

Fact is there were many culprits in the loss, i.e., just for the offense: Oline, Coach, QB, FB, TE's and WR's. That said, I watched the Cowboys game (to root against them) and was very depressed seeing how good their Oline is. Romo had all day to pick out receivers and throw, and the RB's had huge holes with at least a 3 yard head start off the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately, it reminded me of the Oline the Cowboys had when they were the dominant team in the NFL. Unless there is dramatic overall improvement starting agains the Saints, this is going to be a bad team.

[HanburgerBum]

Gibbs always said with a great O-line like the Hogs he could take any of the top 50 QB's and win

That says it all.


You are absolutely right. I think there is a general misconception that great QBs win SBs. Some very ordinary QBs have won SBs. But, with very few exceptions, winning teams in SBs have excellent Olines. The 2007 Patriots looked invincible. But, they lost when their Oline was outplayed in the SB by the Giants Dline.

What would we give for an Oline like the Hogs again? The feat of setting the all-time low sack total with a completely immobile QB like Rypien says it all about that bunch.

[shally]

You are absolutely right. I think there is a general misconception that great QBs win SBs. Some very ordinary QBs have won SBs. But, with very few exceptions, winning teams in SBs have excellent Olines. The 2007 Patriots looked invincible. But, they lost when their Oline was outplayed in the SB by the Giants Dline.

What would we give for an Oline like the Hogs again? The feat of setting the all-time low sack total with a completely immobile QB like Rypien says it all about that bunch.


it doesnt seem to be doing minny that much good... i think that even without mckinnie, theyhave one of the better lines..plus, they have all world AP running the ball

what does that leave one to conclude about tarveris jackson ??

[guess88]

it doesnt seem to be doing minny that much good... i think that even without mckinnie, theyhave one of the better lines..plus, they have all world AP running the ball

what does that leave one to conclude about tarveris jackson ??

Tavaris is sauce. Maybe Childress is trying to forge a McNabb clone, but with an O line like that, they can go traditional pocket passer all day. Even old Vinny T, or Jeff George would be an improvement.

[shally]

Tavaris is sauce. Maybe Childress is trying to forge a McNabb clone, but with an O line like that, they can go traditional pocket passer all day. Even old Vinny T, or Jeff George would be an improvement.


my thoughts as well.. but then childress is not one of my favorite coaches, so he can sink with TJ and that would be just fine with me..

[guess88]

I share your frustration about our offense, but I think you missed the boat if you thought Jason Campbell was the main problem. True, Campbell didn't have a great game. But, from my vantage point, the #1 culprit was the Oline. Tom Brady, when he was healthy, would have trouble performing well with our Oline.

As evidenced by his frustrations during the SB.

[Meatsnack]

Ahhhhh! Old farts. Musty!

It is a never ending source of heartburn to me that this team seems content to come out flat and undisciplined to start every season since Norv was around. Under Marty and Gibbs, they were able to get better and go on late season runs, unlike under Norv and SOS.

This O-line is better than they showed when their heads are in the game. If we can pound the rock, a lot of things change for the better. Right now, Rabach and Kendall are liabilities. Randy T isn't all the way back, either, but isn't bad.

As a developing curmudgeon myself, I share a lot of Shally's disgust at Moss. He is picking up right where he left off as a total liabioity of a #1 receiver. The trouble is, who do we have to replace him? I am even more disgusted at Zorn and the whole offensive coaching staff. Sherman Smith can forget burnishing his resume in Washington if this keeps up. It is clear to me that Zorn shouldn't be calling plays at this point. We have an OC in the booth, use him. No Cooley vs. a team crashing the LOS? Campbell's head is spinning and he is useless making the reads crucial in the WCO offense. This can be coached and needs to improve right now.

[Keino]

Tavaris is sauce. Maybe Childress is trying to forge a McNabb clone, but with an O line like that, they can go traditional pocket passer all day. Even old Vinny T, or Jeff George would be an improvement.

I am still flabbergasted that they didn't make a play for Pennington. He is suited for the WCO....weak arm but accurate.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

Anybody see the article on espn calling zorn a chicken?

[skinsfan36]

nice job shally im thinking 7-9 at this point if we can win sunday. the afc north sucks other than pittsburgh,we will win at least 2 nfc east games and should beat most of the nfc west

[BostonSkins]

I can't believe how easy Moss is getting off the hook for quitting on a route because he thought Campbell was sacked. Imagine if David Tyree had thought that in the Super Bowl? Moss' attitude has been suspect since JC become the starter and I can't figure it out.

[skinsfan36]

I can't believe how easy Moss is getting off the hook for quitting on a route because he thought Campbell was sacked. Imagine if David Tyree had thought that in the Super Bowl? Moss' attitude has been suspect since JC become the starter and I can't figure it out.

jc throws too hard(moss used to collins,brunell,pennington,anyone hwo cant break glass)

[shally]

jc throws too hard(moss used to collins,brunell,pennington,anyone hwo cant break glass)

it is not so much that he throws hard, it is that he throws hard all the time and throws a flat ball..
receivers are paid to catch it no matter what, and favre and elway always were known for their ability to really drive the ball through defenses.. but there is a time to feather it over or around defenders and until campbell learns that portion of his craft he is going to have dropped or tipped balls with regularity

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

Good article, Shally. I think you are dead on on most of your points. I wasn't that impressed with our Dline against the run but they did improve as the game went on. I would rest Taylor if he isn't 100% for the New Orleans game. Taylor looked very ineffective against the Giants - I hope it is just the injury and not an attitude issue.
The Skins Oline didn't look very good but Campbell held the ball too long and the receivers just didn't get open. We need to invest at least another 3rd round pick on an Olineman due the age of 4/5 of the starters.

Moss is a real enigma. A guy with a ton of talent but his head just isn't in the game. Another year like the last 2 and he is gone.

I sure agree about Springs - I was furious to see him smiling and clowning around while his team was getting pounded. I keep thinking that each year this is his last with the team, i hope this is the year. We need to sign a new corner or spend a high draft pick in 2009.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

it is not so much that he throws hard, it is that he throws hard all the time and throws a flat ball..
receivers are paid to catch it no matter what, and favre and elway always were known for their ability to really drive the ball through defenses.. but there is a time to feather it over or around defenders and until campbell learns that portion of his craft he is going to have dropped or tipped balls with regularity

Moss has had some time to adjust though, no? He drops way too many passes.

[sinskin]

I am still flabbergasted that they didn't make a play for Pennington. He is suited for the WCO....weak arm but accurate.


COLT anyone ... is there a COLT in the house? :smash:

[sinskin]

honestly though... I think Cambell looked better then Russell

[greatest2]

it doesnt seem to be doing minny that much good... i think that even without mckinnie, theyhave one of the better lines..plus, they have all world AP running the ball

what does that leave one to conclude about tarveris jackson ??


the question is do you think TJ is a top 50 qb? i don't know. if he is, its very close. also, Minny line is much better at run blocking, and only decent at pass blocking, at least from what i saw last game.

our line, in the old days, could do both really well.

[silverspring]

Shally good read. I think this assessment and the whole 5-11 prediction would be dead on if we base it solely off this game. That being said, if you made a prediction based on the first 2 pre-season games it would probably be closer to 11-5. Campbell certainly did look that bad, but i am still hoping to see a different campbell sunday. So I am hoping statistics are on our side and after a second game we can meet somewhere closer to the middle.

[shally]

the question is do you think TJ is a top 50 qb? i don't know. if he is, its very close. also, Minny line is much better at run blocking, and only decent at pass blocking, at least from what i saw last game.

our line, in the old days, could do both really well.

top 50 ? that is a meaningless question.. is he a starter who can guide a team deep into the playoffs ?

i would not want him as my starter.. he certainly is worthy of backup status, so top 32-60 ? yup...

[shally]

Shally good read. I think this assessment and the whole 5-11 prediction would be dead on if we base it solely off this game. That being said, if you made a prediction based on the first 2 pre-season games it would probably be closer to 11-5. Campbell certainly did look that bad, but i am still hoping to see a different campbell sunday. So I am hoping statistics are on our side and after a second game we can meet somewhere closer to the middle.

goes to show how dangerous it is to make any predictions based upon preseason.. did the lions go 4-0 ? if true, that is all you really need to know

[colkurtz]

Excellent writeup Shally. Moss continues to disappoint. JC is our season. We've got to rid his pony until we see if he is the franchise QB or not. That to me means we play him at least through the first eight games or more. With the way this offense has played in the last four games that could be very painful.

Zorn is a nice guy but he's going to have to toughen up and get better quickly as the OC. If he can't get better at play calling then he's got to go to the booth and let someone else do it.

To me the pressure is most on Campbell, not Zorn. Zorn has the time because he inherited a team. Campbell is on season 4 and as he approaches his 30th game in November the boos and naysayers will be brutal unless he can win and get this offense going. I hope he does succeed, but am now a doubter as to his long-term future here.

[shally]

Excellent writeup Shally. Moss continues to disappoint. JC is our season. We've got to rid his pony until we see if he is the franchise QB or not. That to me means we play him at least through the first eight games or more. With the way this offense has played in the last four games that could be very painful.

Zorn is a nice guy but he's going to have to toughen up and get better quickly as the OC. If he can't get better at play calling then he's got to go to the booth and let someone else do it.

To me the pressure is most on Campbell, not Zorn. Zorn has the time because he inherited a team. Campbell is on season 4 and as he approaches his 30th game in November the boos and naysayers will be brutal unless he can win and get this offense going. I hope he does succeed, but am now a doubter as to his long-term future here.

i totally agree with you..unless zorn completely loses the team the way richie pettibone did, or unless he proves to be completely inept i think he gets at least a 2 year gig.

i tend to agree with you about JC but it really depends how he looks losing or winning games... even if he wins ugly, he will likely be retained in the hope he continues to mature. look at how tolerant the titans have been with vince young simply because they have been winning..

if he loses games in which his play gets better, but the defense or turnovers by others cost them wins, he is likely to also survive to come back for one more year as starter.. but if he loses a bunch of games in which the offensive output is just woeful then i expect to see the pressure so great that sometime in the last 1/3 of the season he gets benched

[greatest2]

top 50 ? that is a meaningless question.. is he a starter who can guide a team deep into the playoffs ?

i would not want him as my starter.. he certainly is worthy of backup status, so top 32-60 ? yup...

i was only responding to another person's post that said gibbs once said "with our oline, a top 50 qb will be great" or something along those lines.

Then he said his thing about how minny has a good line but TJ didn't look good. and i replied with that post.


regardless, i agree with you. it is meaningless, but i don't agree that minny line was as good as our oline back in the day. there run game is great maybe bettter then ours was, but there pass protection wasn't nearly as good as ours.

[shally]

i was only responding to another person's post that said gibbs once said "with our oline, a top 50 qb will be great" or something along those lines.

Then he said his thing about how minny has a good line but TJ didn't look good. and i replied with that post.


regardless, i agree with you. it is meaningless, but i don't agree that minny line was as good as our oline back in the day. there run game is great maybe bettter then ours was, but there pass protection wasn't nearly as good as ours.

sorry.. no slam intended.. my bad...

[skin4ever]

Why is Moss running a deep route and stops because he thinks the QB is sacked?

Because the play is over.(in his mind)

But, in reading the posts that followed, Moss did quit because he wrongly thought the play was over, he most certainly should have come back to the QB or something instead of slowing his roll and waited till the wistle was blown.

heres the link to Zorns explanation of that play.
http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/For_Campbell__Improvement_Is_In_the_Details_22151. jsp

[HanburgerBum]

Fact is there were many culprits in the loss, i.e., just for the offense: Oline, Coach, QB, FB, TE's and WR's. That said, I watched the Cowboys game (to root against them) and was very depressed seeing how good their Oline is. Romo had all day to pick out receivers and throw, and the RB's had huge holes with at least a 3 yard head start off the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately, it reminded me of the Oline the Cowboys had when they were the dominant team in the NFL. Unless there is dramatic overall improvement starting agains the Saints, this is going to be a bad team.


I also watched the Cowboys game, and it sickened me to see how good a team Dallas has become, particularly the Oline. When Parcells took over the Cowboys, they were about on a par with the Skins. But, the two teams appear to have gone in opposite directions. There is no short cut to success in the NFL. If the brass isn't making the right personnel decisions, the team isn't going to contend on the field. I think we are heading for some lean, rebuilding years. Let's hope Cerrato is the right man for the job.

[HanburgerBum]

it doesnt seem to be doing minny that much good... i think that even without mckinnie, theyhave one of the better lines..plus, they have all world AP running the ball

what does that leave one to conclude about tarveris jackson ??


Minnesota is a pretty good team with a lot of the pieces in place--including a good Oline. I don't think it would take a great QB to make the Vikings tick, but there must be a minimum degree of proficiency at the QB spot. Right now, it's not clear if Tavares Jackson can give them that. But, if he does, I think Minnesota is more of a playoff contender than the Skins (as much as I hate to say it).

[shally]

Minnesota is a pretty good team with a lot of the pieces in place--including a good Oline. I don't think it would take a great QB to make the Vikings tick, but there must be a minimum degree of proficiency at the QB spot. Right now, it's not clear if Tavares Jackson can give them that. But, if he does, I think Minnesota is more of a playoff contender than the Skins (as much as I hate to say it).

i am not sure they are.. they seem to be a mish-mash of players who may not be that complimentary.. mckinnie looks to be a distraction and he should be their best o lineman
the dominating d line wasnt that dominating against green bay with a qb making his first start

bottom line is that they will likely go as far as jackson can take them, and i dont particularly like their chances, especially if rodgers and orton play at a decent level

[Nomad]

good points, but you cant say "spot on" after a post like this...;)

i am at the point of wondering which position to address with a top ten pick in next year's draft. i do not think QB would be wise, as i'm willing to stick with Campbell and Colt for the near future.

I don't know who it will be, but you can bet your buttocks it won't be an OL or DL. Probably a CB, so we can be like the Lions are w/receivers, except w/DBs.

If we have a top 10 pick and a QB not there, Cerrato will trade down as we have only 4 picks. Every other team in division has 9 or 10 before compensatory.

[shally]

I don't know who it will be, but you can bet your buttocks it won't be an OL or DL. Probably a CB, so we can be like the Lions are w/receivers, except w/DBs.

If we have a top 10 pick and a QB not there, Cerrato will trade down as we have only 4 picks. Every other team in division has 9 or 10 before compensatory.

i think we will be going o line or d line next year, but LB might be another consideration.

we didnt start out with 10 picks this year, so i expect we will likely do some trading down once again

one other thing, if most of the 10 rookies we drafted this year pan out, plus one or more of our PS players (brown, crummey, clark) make the transition to the roster, there simply wont be space on the roster for another 10 draft picks next year. that would be a happy problem to have

finally, i just dont see us spending another first round pick on a QB next year.
best case scenario is that JC develops and there is clearly no need. worst case scenario is we need a new starter at QB, and if that happens i think we will try for a young guy already on someone's roster (yeah, Colt will get a look, perhaps )

[Keino]

Can we please get the half-way point of the season before we start talking 2009 Draft?

The season just started for Pete's sake......

[Fathead]

Can we please get the half-way point of the season before we start talking 2009 Draft?

The season just started for Pete's sake......



Well, since we are already the worst team in the history of organized sports and are guaranteed to have the first pick in the draft for the next 5 years, people are going to want to talk the draft.

Duh!

[firehawk157]

Can we please get the half-way point of the season before we start talking 2009 Draft?

The season just started for Pete's sake......
My thoughts exactly...

[redwolf1218]

my comment about the draft was inspired by this article:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/05/performance-thats-worthy-of-no-1-pick/

i assume it's kind of "tongue-in-cheek", but it made me think. obviously we need huge improvements to be competetive.

[shally]

my comment about the draft was inspired by this article:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/05/performance-thats-worthy-of-no-1-pick/

i assume it's kind of "tongue-in-cheek", but it made me think. obviously we need huge improvements to be competetive.

we played a terrible first quarter, but other than that, we looked to be no where near a team that is in competition for the first overall pick

[redwolf1218]

we played a terrible first quarter, but other than that, we looked to be no where near a team that is in competition for the first overall pick

i admit it was a "gloom and doom" article. at least he eventually conceded this:

OK, so maybe the Redskins won't have the first pick of the draft. But they'll easily be in the top 10 if they keep playing like this.

[shally]

i admit it was a "gloom and doom" article. at least he eventually conceded this:

OK, so maybe the Redskins won't have the first pick of the draft. But they'll easily be in the top 10 if they keep playing like this.

i think we could go either way.. top 10 pick or bottom 10 pick. a lot of teams cluster right around the 7-9 to 9-7 mark

[Keino]

I don't really care what inspired it. It is a Fruitless and ridiculous discussion. No team has ever had their season decided in week 1.

Yes we looked bad. Yes if we play like that the whole year we will be picking early in the 1st round. But the season is far from over and this is a veteran team that generally plays well with its back against the wall.....

Lets let it play out a bit before deciding which direction to go in the Draft. We may be picking in the 20s......

[shally]

I don't really care what inspired it. It is a Fruitless and ridiculous discussion. No team has ever had their season decided in week 1.

Yes we looked bad. Yes if we play like that the whole year we will be picking early in the 1st round. But the season is far from over and this is a veteran team that generally plays well with its back against the wall.....

Lets let it play out a bit before deciding which direction to go in the Draft. We may be picking in the 20s......

could happen.. hopefully, WILL happen.. we need to make some kind of statement the next 2 weeks.

and ACTUALLY, i think the Pats had their season decided last week.. there is simply NO way they are a SB team without brady.. on a similar note, the loss of merriman will probably cost SD a few games, also..

[BigHairedAristocrat]

we played a terrible first quarter, but other than that, we looked to be no where near a team that is in competition for the first overall pick

our offense was terrible for the entire game. Our defense was mediocre against a Giants team that kept making mistakes.

I'm not saying we will be as bad as the raiders, 49ers or rams, but at top 5 pick would not surprise me.

My only hope (assuming the playoffs were out of the picture) is that we have a high pick, but not the #1 pick. Since we dont have picks in the 2nd or 4th rounds, we can only EXPECT to get a decent player with our 1st and 3rd round picks. Usually no one wants the #1 pick in the draft, so a pick between 2 and 10 would give us more freedom in trying to trade down.

LB and CB are going to be HUGE needs next year, as we will likely lose springs and Washington. Rockys knees are bad and Fletcher can't keep starting forever. Add to that The possibility Jason Taylor may not end up being what we thought, Griffen may be let go, and Golston and Monty are rotational/backup players on a good day, and we're talking about needing anywhere between 3 and 6 new defensive STARTERS next year.

Add to that our declining offensive line and potential need for an upgrade at quarterback, and we could need anywhere between 1 and 3 new starters on offense. I know we added alot of guys in the draft this year, but its not as if most of these guys are expected to be starters.

and as far as the o-line goes, i think Bugel could end up retiring after this season. I think our o-line has "overperformed" due to buges coaching, so his potential absence could not only hurt the performance our current line, but also limit the ability to develop some of the intriguing undrafted prospects on our PS.

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom, but just bracing myself for a few seasons of rebuilding. Gibbs filled the roster with guys who he knew had a fairly "small window"left in their careers. We went "all in" in an effort to win superbowls right away instead of building for the long-term. Gibbs failed. We are where we are right now and I have no dellusions that this team is bound to go anywhere anytime soon.

Ideally, what we need is to accumulate 2nd-4th round picks the next two years and use those picks on linemen. i have faith our WRs will develop if we're patient. We just need to use free agency smartly and pick up guys like Fletcher (but younger) and we'll be moving in the right direction.

[shally]

Uhhh, our offense was terrible for the entire game. Our defense was mediocre against a Giants team that kept making mistakes.

I'm not saying we will be as bad as the raiders, 49ers or rams, but at top 5 pick would not surprise me.

My only hope (assuming the playoffs were out of the picture) is that we have a high pick, but not the #1 pick. Since we dont have picks in the 2nd or 4th rounds, we can only EXPECT to get a decent player with our 1st and 3rd round picks. Usually no one wants the #1 pick in the draft, so a pick between 2 and 10 would give us more freedom in trying to trade down.

LB and CB are going to be HUGE needs next year, as we will likely lose springs and Washington. Rockys knees are bad and Fletcher can't keep starting forever. Add to that The possibility Jason Taylor may not end up being what we thought, Griffen may be let go, and Golston and Monty are rotational/backup players on a good day, and we're talking about needing anywhere between 3 and 6 new defensive STARTERS needed next year.

Add to that our declining offensive line and potential need for an upgrade at quarterback, and we could need anywhere between 1 and 3 new starters on offense. I know we added alot of guys in the draft this year, but its not as if most of these guys are expected to be starters.

and as far as the o-line goes, i think Bugel could end up retiring after this season. I think our o-line has "overperformed" due to buges coaching, so his potential absence could not only hurt the performance our current line, but also limit the ability to develop some of the intriguing undrafted prospects on our PS.

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom, but just bracing myself for a few seasons of rebuilding. Gibbs filled the roster with guys who he knew had a fairly "small window"left in their careers. We went "all in" in an effort to win superbowls right away instead of building for the long-term. Gibbs failed. We are where we are right now and I have no dellusions that this team is bound to go anywhere anytime soon.

nope

when the saints can go from 3-13 to a SB worthy team in 1 offseason, i am not resigning myself to any longterm rebuilding mentality

carolina will be very tough this year also after going through a dreary season last year..

[Keino]

could happen.. hopefully, WILL happen.. we need to make some kind of statement the next 2 weeks.

and ACTUALLY, i think the Pats had their season decided last week.. there is simply NO way they are a SB team without brady.. on a similar note, the loss of merriman will probably cost SD a few games, also..

I disagree with the premise of both statements.

The Giants started out last year 0-2, looked dead in the water and the speculation was that the coach was going to lose his job. Their QB looked horrible, their running game sucked and their defense was getting picked apart. The they win in week 3, go on a late season roll and the rest is history. I'd like to see us make a statement this week, but I don't think it absolutely necessary.

The Pats season did not end last week. That team won a SB when its starter was knocked out and they had this relatively unknown 6th rounder step in and keep it going. They did it without half the quality WRs they have now and a fat, sometimey RB. They utilized the Dink and Dunk game and relied on good defense. Their season is far from over.

I watched SD play last week. Merrieman was not helping them by being on the field. He was gimpy and moved sluggishly. They are still a contender and an excellent defense without him.

Both of those teams are still very much contenders despite significant losses to injury.

[shally]

reading a lot of the commentaries and blogs at www.nola.com and it looks like neither harper or gay practiced today and nobody is sure whether either of these two guys will be active on sunday either..

the saints really are banged up.. we need to stomp them thoroughly

also, robert meachem, their former number 1 pick WR-- may be active for the very first game in his career...

[MadDog97]

Ok, I have read all the complaints. My original prediction was close to 7-9 and I stick with it. The Skins are not as horrible as the responses suggest but they need to improve with experience.

I have been critical of JC but I still believe the offensive line needs youth and that is where I would worry about a draft. But then again, it is way too early to suggest who they should draft.

I will pass judgement after we reach the midpoint of the season. Until then, I will be patient.

:sun:

[MisterMike]

"Deer in headlights" is not the recipe for any QB. I think it ruined Ramsey, a past potential star. It is now ruining JC. Gibbs 1 won with 4 QBs, the smurfs, the fun bunch, Superbowl running back mvps that were never heard from again, and various walk-ons. The constant was the HOGS, one of the best offensive lines in history. Our current owner seems to favor "stars", i.e. ones that sell jerseys, over offensive linemen. Offensive lineman rarely sell jerseys. Our offensive line is "OK", meaning we can win against mediocre or smallish defenses, and occasionally with a "trick play".... a future of 8-8, with some slightly above (wildcard), and a few below. Mediocrity. Well, I'm tired of the "star" system that sells t-shirts but produces mediocrity. Begin with a strong powerful offensive line, backed up with some viable contenders at all the other positions (personally I think Moss and Randle El would be SUPER STARS if we gave JC the minimum amount of protection). After that we should just get what is available. We'd be in the playoffs every year, and occasionally have a shot at the big one. THE KEY IS THE OFFENSIVE LINE.

[shally]

"Deer in headlights" is not the recipe for any QB. I think it ruined Ramsey, a past potential star. It is now ruining JC. Gibbs 1 won with 4 QBs, the smurfs, the fun bunch, Superbowl running back mvps that were never heard from again, and various walk-ons. The constant was the HOGS, one of the best offensive lines in history. Our current owner seems to favor "stars", i.e. ones that sell jerseys, over offensive linemen. Offensive lineman rarely sell jerseys. Our offensive line is "OK", meaning we can win against mediocre or smallish defenses, and occasionally with a "trick play".... a future of 8-8, with some slightly above (wildcard), and a few below. Mediocrity. Well, I'm tired of the "star" system that sells t-shirts but produces mediocrity. Begin with a strong powerful offensive line, backed up with some viable contenders at all the other positions (personally I think Moss and Randle El would be SUPER STARS if we gave JC the minimum amount of protection). After that we should just get what is available. We'd be in the playoffs every year, and occasionally have a shot at the big one. THE KEY IS THE OFFENSIVE LINE.

welcome !!

agree about the o line