Fixing penalties

[PennSkinsFan]

What action should be taken to curb the alarming nunber of penalties that cost us games. They kill our drives and breathe fresh air into our opponents. You vote....

[Spence]

I'd bench players, at least for a quarter or two and probably for an entire game. They're not getting it through their skulls right now. Fining is baloney. There is no fine that would be acceptable to the NFLPA that would put a dent in any player's wallet. Bench 'em. They care about time on the field. Take it away from them and they'll learn. Joe Gibbs used to take them out of the game and force them to stand right next to him or Petitbon.

That'll learn 'em.

[lakewinola]

I'd try to get the team's leaders Ramsey and Arrington or Smith to start getting in people's faces to let em know they will not tolerate stupid penalties. Players tend to respect fellow teamates more than any coaching staff. This will get the message across.

[rskinsfan10]

I went with benching for a series or two, but if it continues then I would lean strongly towards Spence's proposal. I agree that the fines would simply equate to attempting to stand up in the front of a crowd and rip off one liners.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by lakewinola
I'd try to get the team's leaders Ramsey and Arrington or Smith to start getting in people's faces to let em know they will not tolerate stupid penalties. Players tend to respect fellow teamates more than any coaching staff. This will get the message across.

Only problem with that scenario is...many of the penalties are coming from team laders. I am sick of Lavar getting us two offside penalties a game. Bruce Smith as well. Chris Samuels. These guys are the leaders. Its called discipline, good sound football.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by Spence
I'd bench players, at least for a quarter or two and probably for an entire game. They're not getting it through their skulls right now. Fining is baloney. There is no fine that would be acceptable to the NFLPA that would put a dent in any player's wallet. Bench 'em. They care about time on the field. Take it away from them and they'll learn. Joe Gibbs used to take them out of the game and force them to stand right next to him or Petitbon.

That'll learn 'em.

So we loose because we benched ALL our players and played with a second team. Is that better than losing because we had penalties? Does the players learn or get pissed off that they lost because Spurrier took them out of the game? Does that start bad feelings between Spurrier and his players?

I don't know what do do. Players in the NFL seem to play for the money rather than to win. FINE THEM!!! AND FINE THEM BIG!!! Maybe the fines should be based on a percentage of their salaries. Say 1/4 percent of years salary for off sides and false starts, 1/2 percents of a years salary for holding or personal fouls. I don't know, but this is ridiculous.

[jporterweb]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
So we loose because we benched ALL our players and played with a second team. Is that better than losing because we had penalties? Does the players learn or get pissed off that they lost because Spurrier took them out of the game? Does that start bad feelings between Spurrier and his players?

I don't know what do do. Players in the NFL seem to play for the money rather than to win. FINE THEM!!! AND FINE THEM BIG!!! Maybe the fines should be based on a percentage of their salaries. Say 1/4 percent of years salary for off sides and false starts, 1/2 percents of a years salary for holding or personal fouls. I don't know, but this is ridiculous.

Problem with those type of fines is that they would have to be approved by the NFLPA which would never happen.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Just fine them until the NFLPA bitches. Maybe by then the players will learn. Sometimes you have to break the rules to get ahead.

[Spence]

The NFLPA would intervene immediately, once the first large fine was handed down by the team. Teams are not permitted to break the rules of collective bargaining agreements. It's a contract. It's binding. You cannot break it to get ahead or for any other reason. The Major League Baseball owners thought they could violate their collective bargaining agreement with the players in the mid-1980s and it cost them about $250 million in fines. Collective bargaining agreements are serious matters. If there was an easy solution to this problem, somebody would have solved it by now and the problem would not exist.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by Spence
The NFLPA would intervene immediately, once the first large fine was handed down by the team. Teams are not permitted to break the rules of collective bargaining agreements. It's a contract. It's binding. You cannot break it to get ahead or for any other reason. The Major League Baseball owners thought they could violate their collective bargaining agreement with the players in the mid-1980s and it cost them about $250 million in fines. Collective bargaining agreements are serious matters. If there was an easy solution to this problem, somebody would have solved it by now and the problem would not exist.

I was being sarcastic. But something has to be done. How big of a fine is TOO big for the NFLPA?

[Spence]

Originally posted by AZ#1SkinsFan
I was being sarcastic. But something has to be done. How big of a fine is TOO big for the NFLPA? Unfortunately, any fine that a player would really notice will be too big for the NFLPA. That's why teams continue to have this problem. That's why I think benching them is the best option. It sets an example for the rest of the team and the NFLPA cannot do anything about it. And by negatively affecting a player's stats and his reputation around the league, it hits him in the pocket book when issues like contract re-negotiation, free agency, and performance incentives are considered.

There really is no iron-clad solution to this problem. No matter what any team does, they are just making the best of a bad situation. Something has to be done with the Redskins, though. It sometimes appears as if these guys are not even trying to think on the field. It's depressing. These guys are not rookies.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by Spence
Unfortunately, any fine that a player would really notice will be too big for the NFLPA. That's why teams continue to have this problem. That's why I think benching them is the best option. It sets an example for the rest of the team and the NFLPA cannot do anything about it. And by negatively affecting a player's stats and his reputation around the league, it hits him in the pocket book when issues like contract re-negotiation, free agency, and performance incentives are considered.

There really is no iron-clad solution to this problem. No matter what any team does, they are just making the best of a bad situation. Something has to be done with the Redskins, though. It sometimes appears as if these guys are not even trying to think on the field. It's depressing. These guys are not rookies.

Great points. I just hope they figure something out. AND SOON!!!

[hail2skins]

I went with benching them for a series or two but I definately like Spence's idea.

[ShaggySkins]

Let them be. They will fix themselves, its time for the captains of the team to step up and start confronting the guys commiting the penalties. Self responsibility is what its all about.

[AGibbsGirl]

Well now, I think it depends on the penalty and circumstance. If it’s something asinine like Trotter’s Personal then making him stand in the corner + a fine would work for me.

But if someone is called for off sides etc…depending on the circumstances (crowd noise, the opp line shifting etc…) then either nothing or a fine would suffice.

[Chief Seeway]

Preventing is a lot easier the correcting. We havnt been in a position yet this year (a large lead) to pull our starters.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
Let them be. They will fix themselves, its time for the captains of the team to step up and start confronting the guys commiting the penalties. Self responsibility is what its all about.

Spurrier just made this exact point on his radio show. I mean less than 5 minutes ago.

[rskinsfan10]

What if the captains are the ones getting the penalties?

[Skins57]

I say depending on the penalty, there could be different things done. A personal foul of any kind woiuld be the worst. I say SS makes them run until they throw up and then make em clean it up and run some more.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I say bench 'em for a little bit so they get it through their heads. If the other team does something good while they're out, then they've got that on their shoulders, too, and probably pick up the message even quicker.

[hail2skins]

Jansen was just interviewed by Sunny and George on the local news here. They told him being captain you can't do that and said he really has to take care of it. He was asked why he had them and he mentioned that on one occassion there were 3 seconds on the play clock and he wasn't expecting another check at that point.

He also mentioned that decisions need to be made fast about the personnel for a play and getting the personnel on the field faster. Spurrier did mention on his radio show that he thinks he changed personnel too much yesterday and wish he could change some of the calls he made in our final drive of regulation.

[Chief Seeway]

BTW...

Who are our captains?

[hail2skins]

I know Jansen and Arrington are captains. I don't know the others.