Good thing we made coach Zorn our HC when we did.

[CarMike]

I know its easy to look in hindsight and talk about how great it has been so far to have coach Zorn as our HC. The team is playing inspired football that hasn't been seen in DC for years. Many, many years as a matter of fact.

The point to the thread is this. With the Seahags [Seattle] sitting at 1-3 and completely demolished at the hands of the Giants yesterday, I wonder if Seattle would have tried to lure JZ away if all he had been was our OC? I'm not sure if they would have offered him the HC position without any experience. I'm sure JZ probably looks at Seattle like coach Gibbs looks at Washington. Coach Gibbs mentioned that Atlanta tried to hire him out of retirement before he came back to DC.


Anyways. I'm happy to have coach Zorn in DC for the forseeable future. Plus we should have a staff that will be together for a while as well.

[Oregonian]

I've been thinking that one of the reasons that Seattle, and especially Hasselbeck and their offense, are playing so poorly may be that they are missing the Zorn.

[JsMaViSd]

i completely agree.

Jim Zorn has put fire in these guys. and i love his attack. I love when were up by 6 and on 3rd down we are throwing 20 yard passes and not relying on the defense to finish it up.

whens the last time youve seen a skins team being able to knee the ball 4 weeks in a row to win games?

[PyroGenic]

I've been thinking that one of the reasons that Seattle, and especially Hasselbeck and their offense, are playing so poorly may be that they are missing the Zorn.

Do you think he had that much of an effect on how things played out? Yes, Zorn is showing that he has a superb football mind is becoming a good coach, but I'm not sure QB coaches have much say with what actually happens on the field.

[JsMaViSd]

Do you think he had that much of an effect on how things played out? Yes, Zorn is showing that he has a superb football mind is becoming a good coach, but I'm not sure QB coaches have much say with what actually happens on the field.

my opinion as well.. especially in a Holmgren system.

[CarMike]

Do you think he had that much of an effect on how things played out? Yes, Zorn is showing that he has a superb football mind is becoming a good coach, but I'm not sure QB coaches have much say with what actually happens on the field.
I'd imagine coach Zorn had a lot of say in their offense. Not the final decision, but he had to have had some input on their offense.

[PyroGenic]

I'd imagine coach Zorn had a lot of say in their offense. Not the final decision, but he had to have had some input on their offense.

Yeah, but making a head coach from a source of input is a big leap. Frankly, I'm surprised that we actually offered him the HC job, you never hear about those kinds of jumps in the coaching hierarchy, especially since being a HC can influence the next half decade of how a team turns out. I'm glad Zorn's our HC, but I don't see how Seattle would have done the same if he was still over there.

[CarMike]

That's my thinking as well. I'm still shocked that Snyder made the choice. The smart thing was to hire a veteran coach like Marriuchi or Foslet. [?]

It was a very risky hire and Snyder caught a lot of grief from Redskin fans and media. With his past [going through countless HCs] he took a big gamble on Zorn.

Wasn't Mike Holmgren also just a QBC before coming a HC? Or was it Andy Reid? So it's not unheard of to make a QBC into a HC with no OC experience.

[fent]

That's my thinking as well. I'm still shocked that Snyder made the choice. The smart thing was to hire a veteran coach like Marriuchi or Foslet. [?]

It was a very risky hire and Snyder caught a lot of grief from Redskin fans and media. With his past [going through countless HCs] he took a big gamble on Zorn.

Wasn't Mike Holmgren also just a QBC before coming a HC? Or was it Andy Reid? So it's not unheard of to make a QBC into a HC with no OC experience.

reid was a QB coach in GB and i'm pretty sure harbaugh was just a special teams assistant before he got the head gig in Baltimore. there was someone else that's had a good HC career that went from non-coordinator to HC but i can't remember who right now.

[CarMike]

Thanks fent. Didn't know that about Harbaugh only being a special teams assistant.

[fent]

Thanks fent. Didn't know that about Harbaugh only being a special teams assistant.

just looked it up...he was the eagles' secondary coach and then got the HC gig without DC experience.

[SkinsKY]

I'll definitely say that I thought Snyder dropped the ball by hiring Zorn as HC. once Spags turned us down, and not going with Fassel, I thought it was a knee-jerk reaction (and a poor one). However, Zorn's shown that he's capable and even more so since the Giants game. He's certainly won me over.

[SkinsKY]

just looked it up...he was the eagles' secondary coach and then got the HC gig without DC experience.

I remember a recent player talking about Harbaugh and that he still had a lot of coordinator-type responsibilities on the team. He led the Monday meetings, introduced a lot of the game plan and such, so he was still involved in more than just the special teams.

[smoak]

I though Seattle already tapped their heir apparent? Nevermind, maybe that was Meeks in Indy? But either way, I was thrilled with the Zorn hiring from day 1 (I'd be lying if I tried to say I wasn't scared after the gnats game).

I will disagree that we haven't played inspired football under Gibbs (2005 & 2007 were very inspired and emotional seasons), but I think Zorn is just such a unique coach that the players are feedign off of him now... It makes a grown man want to scream "HIP, HIP HOORAY"!!!!

[fent]

I though Seattle already tapped their heir apparent? Nevermind, maybe that was Meeks in Indy? But either way, I was thrilled with the Zorn hiring from day 1 (I'd be lying if I tried to say I wasn't scared after the gnats game).

I will disagree that we haven't played inspired football under Gibbs (2005 & 2007 were very inspired and emotional seasons), but I think Zorn is just such a unique coach that the players are feedign off of him now... It makes a grown man want to scream "HIP, HIP HOORAY"!!!!

mora, jr. is that guy, but it can't be written into a contract that an assistant is in line to take over, and after the season they're having, it wouldn't surprise me to see them completely clean house this offseason.

[csquared]

Do you think he had that much of an effect on how things played out? Yes, Zorn is showing that he has a superb football mind is becoming a good coach, but I'm not sure QB coaches have much say with what actually happens on the field.

Exactly right. Plus Jim Mora Jr is already lined up to get that job. I believe Zorn still wasn't getting a coordinators job either.

Edit.. Yea like Fent said.

[InsomniaKiller]

Everytime I see Mooch or Cowher on television, I cringe thinking about where we would be if either one of them were our coach right now.

Most everyone in the league laughed at us when we announced Zorn was our head coach. Now here we are after 5 games and I can't remember the last time a coach became so endeared by the fans so quickly. Aside from carrying us to our best start in the last decade, the guy is just impossible to dislike.

[Farmer Ted]

That's my thinking as well. I'm still shocked that Snyder made the choice. The smart thing was to hire a veteran coach like Marriuchi or Foslet. [?]

Foslet? Dear lord, is that the evil offspring of Jim Fassel and Bruce Coslet? :devil2: I'm really glad he's not coaching our team.

[cal_junior]

Everytime I see Mooch or Cowher on television, I cringe thinking about where we would be if either one of them were our coach right now.

I agree with Mooch, but why would the thought of Cowher as HC make you "cringe"? Cowher was a consistent winner over a lot of years, something Zorn is a long, long way away from.

[nicefellow31]

I know its easy to look in hindsight and talk about how great it has been so far to have coach Zorn as our HC. The team is playing inspired football that hasn't been seen in DC for years. Many, many years as a matter of fact.

The point to the thread is this. With the Seahags [Seattle] sitting at 1-3 and completely demolished at the hands of the Giants yesterday, I wonder if Seattle would have tried to lure JZ away if all he had been was our OC? I'm not sure if they would have offered him the HC position without any experience. I'm sure JZ probably looks at Seattle like coach Gibbs looks at Washington. Coach Gibbs mentioned that Atlanta tried to hire him out of retirement before he came back to DC.


Anyways. I'm happy to have coach Zorn in DC for the forseeable future. Plus we should have a staff that will be together for a while as well.

Jim Mora has already been given that job.

[shally]

I know its easy to look in hindsight and talk about how great it has been so far to have coach Zorn as our HC. The team is playing inspired football that hasn't been seen in DC for years. Many, many years as a matter of fact.

The point to the thread is this. With the Seahags [Seattle] sitting at 1-3 and completely demolished at the hands of the Giants yesterday, I wonder if Seattle would have tried to lure JZ away if all he had been was our OC? I'm not sure if they would have offered him the HC position without any experience. I'm sure JZ probably looks at Seattle like coach Gibbs looks at Washington. Coach Gibbs mentioned that Atlanta tried to hire him out of retirement before he came back to DC.


Anyways. I'm happy to have coach Zorn in DC for the forseeable future. Plus we should have a staff that will be together for a while as well.

seattle has committed to mora for next year and beyond.. it seems no fluke that hasselbeck has regressed some.. still, i dont care what any one says, having a lame duck HC is a bad idea.. look at indy as well, they should be 0-4 if it werent for some improbable wins..

it is a long season and the wheels could still come off, but more likley than not, after this season, snyder tears up zorns contract and signs zorn long term. blache is likely having so much fun, who knows how long he signs on for...

[guess88]

seattle has committed to mora for next year and beyond.. it seems no fluke that hasselbeck has regressed some.. still, i dont care what any one says, having a lame duck HC is a bad idea.. look at indy as well, they should be 0-4 if it werent for some improbable wins..

it is a long season and the wheels could still come off, but more likley than not, after this season, snyder tears up zorns contract and signs zorn long term. blache is likely having so much fun, who knows how long he signs on for...


I don't know if it's fair to say Hasselbeck has regressed. He's played most of the season without any of his starting receivers, and they've had to rely on Billy McMullen of all people. I have a feeling they're going to be much stronger come 2nd half of the season.

[Meatsnack]

I have to say, Jim Zorn is making me think that Vinny Cerrato isn't as dumb as a bag of hammers. That is an accomplishment on par with Vasco de Gama rounding the Cape of Good Hope.

[InsomniaKiller]

I agree with Mooch, but why would the thought of Cowher as HC make you "cringe"? Cowher was a consistent winner over a lot of years, something Zorn is a long, long way away from.

Maybe that was too strong of a word, then. But would we see this growth from Campbell under Cowher? I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if Cowher tried to bring in a new quarterback. Tear the whole thing down, build *his* team, that sort of thing.

I would hate to see that, and I just don't think I could handle watching a game where we call 16 pass plays.

The more I think about it, I think I *did* use the right word. "Cringe."

Yes, if you asked me before the season if I would rather have some guy named Jim Zorn or Bill Cowher, I would say Bill Cowher. Thank goodness for hindsight.

[cal_junior]

Maybe that was too strong of a word, then. But would we see this growth from Campbell under Cowher? I doubt it. I wouldn't be surprised if Cowher tried to bring in a new quarterback. Tear the whole thing down, build *his* team, that sort of thing.

I would hate to see that, and I just don't think I could handle watching a game where we call 16 pass plays.

The more I think about it, I think I *did* use the right word. "Cringe."

Yes, if you asked me before the season if I would rather have some guy named Jim Zorn or Bill Cowher, I would say Bill Cowher. Thank goodness for hindsight.

Lol! It's amazing what 15 years of crap does to a fan base. Believe me, I'm as happy as anybody with our first few games. But to say it means we're better off than if Cowher had decided to answer Danny's phone calls? Easy there.

Cowher won a Super Bowl, lost in another and reached the playoffs 10 times in 15 years. Jim Zorn has won four games. There's a big gap there.

[greatest2]

The seahawks have already said that Jim Mora will be teh new head coach after holmegran left.

Also, Zorn actually thought about staying in seattle if he would get the OC job next year. Mora said he wanted to bring his guy from San fran in.

Therefore ZOrn really had nothing in seattle and had to leave.


as far as his input in the game. im sure he had some, but he has said many times he went to holmgran with a play he drew up or a suggestion and holmgran either wouldn't listen or didn't take it serious. holmgran thought zorn was TOO creative.

im glad we hired him as OC, but when we made it head coach all of us were like, well ok. guess there no one better.

p.s. snyder and gibbs have said snyder told gibbs that Zorn would be one and done here because someone else would make him a head coach. they were that impressed.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Everytime I see Mooch or Cowher on television, I cringe thinking about where we would be if either one of them were our coach right now.

Most everyone in the league laughed at us when we announced Zorn was our head coach. Now here we are after 5 games and I can't remember the last time a coach became so endeared by the fans so quickly. Aside from carrying us to our best start in the last decade, the guy is just impossible to dislike.


That's what winning will do. I don't remember much liking from all of us after week one :)

[InsomniaKiller]

Lol! It's amazing what 15 years of crap does to a fan base. Believe me, I'm as happy as anybody with our first few games. But to say it means we're better off than if Cowher had decided to answer Danny's phone calls? Easy there.

Cowher won a Super Bowl, lost in another and reached the playoffs 10 times in 15 years. Jim Zorn has won four games. There's a big gap there.

The point I was trying to make in my last post is that we're better off, today, with Zorn than I personally think we would be with Cowher. Cowher would probably have dumped half the team to start from scratch. Pretty good chance he'd try to draft "his" quarterback and Campbell would just be a placeholder. Not only would we not have seen the same type of growth in him that we've seen thus far w/ Zorn, but we'd probably all be waiting for next year when Cowher's guy took over. JC would be permitted to throw, what, 16-18 passes a game in the meantime? I personally think we'd be having a pretty miserable season.

I'm sure that in a couple of years, he'd be able to field a pretty competitive team. But I doubt that right now, we'd be 4-1 with him. It would be more of a rebuilding process.

I'm not delusional, I just think this team needed a change in philosophy. Cowher would be more of the same and we wouldn't be enjoying this season right now nearly as much. There's a good chance Cowher would get us there eventually, but I think we'd be seeing some pretty mediocre results right now.

Just my opinion, and I don't think I'm sounding like some crazy-delusional fan.

[rhummer37]

http://stores.colorworkspromotions.com/WJFK/THE-JUNKIE/JHFZG.aspx


Also available in black

[AliBabba]

Lol! It's amazing what 15 years of crap does to a fan base. Believe me, I'm as happy as anybody with our first few games. But to say it means we're better off than if Cowher had decided to answer Danny's phone calls? Easy there.

Cowher won a Super Bowl, lost in another and reached the playoffs 10 times in 15 years. Jim Zorn has won four games. There's a big gap there.
He never said Zorn's better than Cowher. He says he thinks Zorn was better for this situation in some ways such as JCs development.

[InsomniaKiller]

He never said Zorn's better than Cowher. He says he thinks Zorn was better for this situation in some ways such as JCs development.

That about sums it up.

First, Zorn is perfect for Campbell.

Second, we can pretty much all agree we love Zorn's play-calling so far. Cowher's play-calling is much more similar to what we've seen the last 4 years. This change in philosophy has been perfect for the team.

Cowher's not a bad coach. I would've taken him over the other options available before this season. Now, I couldn't be happier that not only was he not available, but Zorn seems to be ruling out the idea of even taking a look at the guy next year.

I do *NOT* want to sit through "rebuilding years" and I do not want to see play-calling like he had in Pittsburgh where they were calling 15 pass attempts per game at time.


(edit: Zorn's name is also infinitely cooler. Makes for awesome puns. That counts for a lot in my book.)

[ARParr]

i admit, i was the one who thought that Snyder ought to have his fk'ing head examined after the Zorn hire.

he'd never even been an offensive coordinator?? for God's sake!! this was sheer lunacy. and i wasn't the only one thinking this way.

one of two things is true:

1) Snyder knew/saw something about Zorn the rest of us didn't
2) it was truly an insane hire which just happens to have been miraculous so far.

what's the truth? i don't know. i'm just grateful right now, and i want to keep winning.

hail.

[cal_junior]

The point I was trying to make in my last post is that we're better off, today, with Zorn than I personally think we would be with Cowher. Cowher would probably have dumped half the team to start from scratch. Pretty good chance he'd try to draft "his" quarterback and Campbell would just be a placeholder. Not only would we not have seen the same type of growth in him that we've seen thus far w/ Zorn, but we'd probably all be waiting for next year when Cowher's guy took over. JC would be permitted to throw, what, 16-18 passes a game in the meantime? I personally think we'd be having a pretty miserable season.

I'm sure that in a couple of years, he'd be able to field a pretty competitive team. But I doubt that right now, we'd be 4-1 with him. It would be more of a rebuilding process.

I'm not delusional, I just think this team needed a change in philosophy. Cowher would be more of the same and we wouldn't be enjoying this season right now nearly as much. There's a good chance Cowher would get us there eventually, but I think we'd be seeing some pretty mediocre results right now.

Just my opinion, and I don't think I'm sounding like some crazy-delusional fan.

You're not delusional, but you're making a lot of assumptions about one of the best NFL coaches of the last 25 years that I don't agree with.

What about Cowher's past makes you think he couldn't win right away, with the same personnel? Or that he would dump half the team, including a potential franchise QB? This was a playoff team a year ago, why would a great NFL HC start from scratch when so much talent was in place?

I hope Zorn turns out to be better than Cowher, but there's no overwhelming evidence right now that we wouldn't have had the same record with him as HC.

[Death_Venom]

You can't help but be impressed with what Jim Zorn has done with the Redskins this far. I don't think anyone had any ideas of being 4-1 at this time-especially after the Giants game (this board seemed one step from cannibalism at that time).

I also completely agree with InsomniaKiller's statement about Zorn being perfect for Campbell. Campbell is looking better & better each game. I think that alot us thought with the implementation of the hybrid West Coast Offense many of thought we would abandon the run and become a pass heavy team. Yet Zorn seems to call a pretty equal amoun tof run & pass each game as well, and Portis has obviously been reaping the benefits of us having a solid passing offense.

[cal_junior]

You can't help but be impressed with what Jim Zorn has done with the Redskins this far. I don't think anyone had any ideas of being 4-1 at this time-especially after the Giants game (this board seemed one step from cannibalism at that time).

I could not agree more. The reason why I loved the Zorn hire at the time was that it seemed to have more "upside" than someone like a Jim Fassel. I thought it was possible Zorn could be lousy, but it was also possible he could turn into an outstanding HC. It's too early to tell, but the fist five games couldn't have looked more promising for his career.

[InsomniaKiller]

You're not delusional, but you're making a lot of assumptions about one of the best NFL coaches of the last 25 years that I don't agree with.

What about Cowher's past makes you think he couldn't win right away, with the same personnel? Or that he would dump half the team, including a potential franchise QB? This was a playoff team a year ago, why would a great NFL HC start from scratch when so much talent was in place?

I hope Zorn turns out to be better than Cowher, but there's no overwhelming evidence right now that we wouldn't have had the same record with him as HC.

The only thing I am basing the assumption that Cowher would put us through a rebuilding phase is that he's earned the right to do so. It's not like there was a lot of evidence that Campbell was going to end up being exactly what we needed this year. Since Cowher strikes me as a similar coach to Gibbs as far as offensive philosophy, I would think the fact that Campbell fumbled more than any other player in the league last year would be reason enough for him to want to spend a draft pick on a guy he could call his own.

Since Zorn's specialty is obviously quarterback development, I have a hard time believing that we'd see such an amazing amount of growth from JC if you take Zorn out of the equation. So, just my opinion that we'd probably be seeing more turnovers and have another rookie qb waiting to take over in the near future.

And yes, these are all assumptions because we're obviously talking hypotheticals here, but that's just how I would see it playing out personally. Who knows, maybe he'd see the same thing in Campbell that Gibbs saw when he drafted him.

All that being said, I think we're having one of our best years running the ball due to our opened-up passing game. With Cowher, I'm not convinced that would be the case. Clinton would still be getting his carries, but I don't think they'd be as effective. Cowher is too conservative a play-caller for my tastes after the last 4 years. We needed a change.

[cal_junior]

The only thing I am basing the assumption that Cowher would put us through a rebuilding phase is that he's earned the right to do so.

I have a hard time believing a great coach would rebuild a team that had been to playoffs twice the previous three years for no good reason other than he had earned the right to do so. "I could win right now, but since I earned the right to take it slow that is what I will do."

And since Cowher is a defensive guy I doubt h would come in and make a decision about JC. That would be left to the offensive staff. What we would have gotten in Cowher is an elite defensive mind and an outstanding motivator of men on both sides of the ball.

(And for the record, I wouldn't trade Zorn for anything. I just think we're probably 4-1 with Cowher, as well.)

[colkurtz]

Snyder took a huge gamble to pick the untried Zorn. I saw one NFL program where they analyzed all the former NFL QB's who had become Head Coaches. Only one out of 25 had done well as a HC.

Many, many questioned this call and now call it genius. I think that Zorn was brought in to maximize Campbell and has done that.

As far as Seattle is concerned, they remind me of Philly. An excellent coach who is now past his prime and on there last season.

It's great to on the 'UP' escalator!

[CarMike]

Foslet? Dear lord, is that the evil offspring of Jim Fassel and Bruce Coslet? :devil2: I'm really glad he's not coaching our team.

lmao I thought "?" was enough to get me a pass on the last name. ;)

[InsomniaKiller]

(And for the record, I wouldn't trade Zorn for anything. I just think we're probably 4-1 with Cowher, as well.)

I personally doubt it but that's just my opinion. I will just close my case by saying that I can't stomach the idea of predictable play-calling that seems to come with Cowher. Campbell's been here long enough that he doesn't need training wheels anymore. Our success is related to his success, and his success is related to Zorn.

Our play-calling has been suspect at times in recent years, and personally, I didn''t like Cowher's play-calling at all in Pittsburgh. Way too conservative. I see no reason to believe it would be radically different here.

The change in philosophy was well-needed, in my opinion.

Again, I wouldn't have minded getting the guy at the time. I don't think he's a bad coach. I just find the new offensive philosophy very refreshing.

[shally]

Snyder took a huge gamble to pick the untried Zorn. I saw one NFL program where they analyzed all the former NFL QB's who had become Head Coaches. Only one out of 25 had done well as a HC.

Many, many questioned this call and now call it genius. I think that Zorn was brought in to maximize Campbell and has done that.

As far as Seattle is concerned, they remind me of Philly. An excellent coach who is now past his prime and on there last season.

It's great to on the 'UP' escalator!

no matter what anyone says, i think there is a component of holmgren's lame duck status that is impacting seattle's play..

[cal_junior]

Our play-calling has been suspect at times in recent years, and personally, I didn''t like Cowher's play-calling at all in Pittsburgh. Way too conservative. I see no reason to believe it would be radically different here.

I'm not aware that Bill Cowher has ever called an offensive play in his NFL career, so I'm not sure what you mean with this.

And here is a section from a 2001 Cowher article in the Tribune-Review:

Steelers offensive coordinator Mike Mularkey has a fertile mind, full of misdirection plays, fake handoffs, halfback option passes and even direct snaps to a wide receiver lined up as a quarterback.

Coach Bill Cowher not only encourages such play calling. He pokes his head into the offensive meetings and suggests it.

"I think that stuff is great," said Cowher, whose coaching roots are in defense. "I believe in that because, defensively, it creates people looking, an awareness, and they are not exactly sure what you are doing. . . If you can create hesitation on the defensive side of the ball, you are taking away a little bit of the aggressiveness of that unit."

Sounds like he'd be all for a play-caller like Zorn. I frankly don't think he had the kind of offensive weapons in Pittsburgh the Skins have right now. If he had them, there's no reason to think he would prevent his OC from using them.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_730.html

[jaylen]

I may be weird but I liked the unknown hire of Zorn , rather than us being stuck with the wet noodle that is Fassell or Mooch. I thought Zorn could be this great hidden gem of a coach or a nightmare. I liked the mystery of getting to know him. I already knew where we were going with those other 2 softies.

I can't stand either guy.

My real worry now is that the Seahawks may try and lure Zorn home. Mora is a nightmare in waiting for the Seahawks he's no great coach. Kinda mystifying that Zorn can blow Snyder away in an interview but not even be consider a candidate for the headjob in Seattle.

with him sorta being a made man in the franchise why was he not thought of better there.

i don't know how we happened up on Zorn but I'm glad we did.

[colkurtz]

no matter what anyone says, i think there is a component of holmgren's lame duck status that is impacting seattle's play..

I agree. I also think that after a decade the enormous pressure of being a HC just grinds down even the best coaches. Holmgren and Reid have lost a step - and as you said, when players sense the last season coming up, the edge comes off.

It's great to be on the other side of the curve with a new coach,Zorn, who's ready to show the NFL what they missed; as he was kept as a lowly QB coach. It's amazing to see Zorn's players who ALREADY believe in him, his sytem and his aggressive play calling. Winning this early in his HC career has done that. He has ignited the team Joe Gibbs had last season and made Jason Campbell into a premiere QB.

[jaylen]

I agree. I also think that after a decade the enormous pressure of being a HC just grinds down even the best coaches. Holmgren and Reid have lost a step - and as you said, when players sense the last season coming up, the edge comes off.

It's great to be on the other side of the curve with a new coach,Zorn, who's ready to show the NFL what they missed; as he was kept as a lowly QB coach. It's amazing to see Zorn's players who ALREADY believe in him, his sytem and his aggressive play calling. Winning this early in his HC career has done that. He has ignited the team Joe Gibbs had last season and made Jason Campbell into a premiere QB.

I agree about reid and Holmgreen having lost a step, Reid should have won a couple titles with the run they had he blew it and now the wheel's may have come off.

But I don't know, if in fact Zorn is a very good coach how long his run goes he's up in age himself the process is sure to wear him down in 5-6 years as well. we may not get the 10 years or so outta him.

[InsomniaKiller]

I'm not aware that Bill Cowher has ever called an offensive play in his NFL career, so I'm not sure what you mean with this.

And here is a section from a 2001 Cowher article in the Tribune-Review:



Sounds like he'd be all for a play-caller like Zorn. I frankly don't think he had the kind of offensive weapons in Pittsburgh the Skins have right now. If he had them, there's no reason to think he would prevent his OC from using them.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_730.html

After Cowher's retirement, much was made of how different the offense would look under Tomlin. After their first game when they were clearly a much more passing-oriented offense, his co-hosts on whatever show it is that he was/is on were ribbing on him about how different they looked, and "Look at the Steelers airing it out!" and all that jazz. Seven years ago he may have said he liked imaginative play-calling but I don't recall ever seeing much of any on his team.

I apologize for saying "play-calling" in my previous post because he wasn't specifically calling the plays, but I've always been under the impression that the identity of the Steelers offense was established by him. Ball-control, conservative play-calling. He was their head coach for 15 years and that's pretty much how they stayed. I can only assume that's the same style of team he'd build here. Sounds good in theory. We've been trying it for a few years. Didn't work out with our personnel. Something new is what we needed.

If we can go back in time and get Cowher or keep Zorn, with all the hindsight we have now, I want Zorn. If we could have Cowher next year or keep Zorn, I would rather have Zorn. We've all seen too many "great" coaches go to another team and fail. And quite frankly, while I think he's a good coach, I also think he's overrated. They were consistently a team that was competing for a playoff spot and often made it into the playoffs, but were only a "great" team a couple of times over those 15 years. But all that's another topic anyhow.

We will just agree to disagree, as I am quite simply done talking about the guy. :)

[Lavar703]

I will admit that i thought Zorn was a really bad hire, i thought he was just another stop-gap until some other big name coach came along and failed. Thank god i was wrong, i dont remember the last time i had this much fun watching the Redskins play, i actually expect them to win now, its different.

[cal_junior]

After Cowher's retirement, much was made of how different the offense would look under Tomlin. After their first game when they were clearly a much more passing-oriented offense, his co-hosts on whatever show it is that he was/is on were ribbing on him about how different they looked, and "Look at the Steelers airing it out!" and all that jazz. Seven years ago he may have said he liked imaginative play-calling but I don't recall ever seeing much of any on his team.

I apologize for saying "play-calling" in my previous post because he wasn't specifically calling the plays, but I've always been under the impression that the identity of the Steelers offense was established by him. Ball-control, conservative play-calling. He was their head coach for 15 years and that's pretty much how they stayed. I can only assume that's the same style of team he'd build here. Sounds good in theory. We've been trying it for a few years. Didn't work out with our personnel. Something new is what we needed.

If we can go back in time and get Cowher or keep Zorn, with all the hindsight we have now, I want Zorn. If we could have Cowher next year or keep Zorn, I would rather have Zorn. We've all seen too many "great" coaches go to another team and fail. And quite frankly, while I think he's a good coach, I also think he's overrated. They were consistently a team that was competing for a playoff spot and often made it into the playoffs, but were only a "great" team a couple of times over those 15 years. But all that's another topic anyhow.

We will just agree to disagree, as I am quite simply done talking about the guy. :)

Fair enough, because there are so many things in here I wouldn't know where to start. Simply the fact that you believe Cowher is overrated makes me think you need to take a long look at the man's resume and put it the context of the modern NFL.

[InsomniaKiller]

Fair enough, because there are so many things in here I wouldn't know where to start. Simply the fact that you believe Cowher is overrated makes me think you need to take a long look at the man's resume and put it the context of the modern NFL.

Apologies. The point of my thread was not to provide you w/ more ammo to attack my point of view. I have personally been under the impression, based on whatever I've seen from the media, that the conservative nature of Pitt's play-calling was a pretty direct result of Cowher's involvement. If that's incorrect, then I have no leg to stand on.

But I tend to get long-winded at times and that can result in me staying something stupid.

Yes, I think he's over-rated, but I also think he's quite good as I stated previously. He put together a good team for many consecutive years, I just rarely saw a truly "great" team from him. But, fielding a good team as often as he did is nothing to sneeze at.

I still personally feel that we would not be 4-1 right now with him. It's possible, of coure. ONe thing we've learned this season is that the improbable is not out of the question. However, if you don't believe he would turn over much of the roster, surely it must be acknowledged that he would want to bring in his own coaching staff.

Zorn has been perfect for Campbell. I'm glad he's here, and right now, I wouldn't take anyone else over him.

Let's just hope that I can say the same thing at the end of this year.

Sorry for bringing this up after I said I was done, I just didn't want to give anyone the wrong idea about where I stand. Plus, I may or may not have had several drinks since my last post.

Hail!

[Death_Venom]

Zorn has been perfect for Campbell. I'm glad he's here, and right now, I wouldn't take anyone else over him.


From what it appears Zorn has helped Campbell to better communicate with his WR's and become a better on field leader. Without Zorn I do not think we would seen the amount of growth of Campbell in such a short time as a QB.

[cal_junior]

Apologies. The point of my thread was not to provide you w/ more ammo to attack my point of view. I have personally been under the impression, based on whatever I've seen from the media, that the conservative nature of Pitt's play-calling was a pretty direct result of Cowher's involvement. If that's incorrect, then I have no leg to stand on.

But I tend to get long-winded at times and that can result in me staying something stupid.

Yes, I think he's over-rated, but I also think he's quite good as I stated previously. He put together a good team for many consecutive years, I just rarely saw a truly "great" team from him. But, fielding a good team as often as he did is nothing to sneeze at.

I still personally feel that we would not be 4-1 right now with him. It's possible, of coure. ONe thing we've learned this season is that the improbable is not out of the question. However, if you don't believe he would turn over much of the roster, surely it must be acknowledged that he would want to bring in his own coaching staff.

Zorn has been perfect for Campbell. I'm glad he's here, and right now, I wouldn't take anyone else over him.

Let's just hope that I can say the same thing at the end of this year.

Sorry for bringing this up after I said I was done, I just didn't want to give anyone the wrong idea about where I stand. Plus, I may or may not have had several drinks since my last post.

Hail!

I think if you ask me right now, I wouldn't mind have Cowher as our HC and Zorn as our OC. I say that only because Cowher won for so many years and has a ring. Zorn hasn't done those things yet.

Ask me in a few months and I may say 'Cowher who?' and be glad Cowher and Spags spurned Danny's advances and we lucked our way into an outstanding HC.

Everything about Zorn seems awesome right now, but it's way, way too early to say for sure he's is the prefect fit here. I need at least a full season to make that determination.

[skinsfan36]

liked the hire and hope he continues to improve