Rookie WRs Thread

[saratogan]

This is just a temporary thread. I would almost say they are MIA. Thomas has been in for a few plays. I thought Davis would start to have an impact but seems to have disappeared, unless I just have totally missed him with all the other great action occurring. What has happened or is occurring? Your thoughts?

[Patrick]

Oh man -don't get me started ........... TOO LATE
For the first quarter of the season I give you a grade for all three: 0.75 on a 4.0 scale.
.........PLEASE do something you guys!!! Don't start me thinking that this will end up to be the worse 2nd round draft in our history!

[bergiemoore]

Oh man -don't get me started ........... TOO LATE
For the first quarter of the season I give you a grade for all three: 0.75 on a 4.0 scale.
.........PLEASE do something you guys!!! Don't start me thinking that this will end up to be the worse 2nd round draft in our history!

I think that judging the draft after 4 games is extremely premature.

Fred is sitting behind a pro-bowl TE and a very capable vet. I don't expect him to be a huge part of the offense unless either Cooley or Yoder get injured.

Thomas' role in the offense has expanded. He was on the field for at least 10 snaps in Sunday's game, and had at least as many the week before. He has yet to make an impact in the passing game, but I did see him blocking down-field on some running plays, and that always makes me happy. It really bites that Heyer's penalty negated his best contribution so far.

Kelly is still battling the injury bug. With 4 other receivers, including an emerging Moss, complimentary Randle El, and competent Thrash, there really isn't a huge demand for Thomas to be on the field right now. I would have loved to see him run the corner route in the endzone that Moss was unable to bring down in bounds, but even Zorn admitted that with the new rules on force-outs, those plays don't make a whole lot of sense anymore.

Bottom line, it is far too early for any type of qualified judgment on these 3. Check back in about a year or 2.

[Keino]

My thoughts are that it typically takes WRs about 3 years to grasp the pro-game and become reliable WRs. To me they are both right on schedule, and I think Devin Thomas is actually making a decent contribution right now.

I am a little disappointed in Kelly's inability to stay healthy, but we knew that he has potential knee issues.

[VegasSkinsFan]

I was hoping for something but wasnt expecting a lot. The way I look at it like this....we have a decent offense that can throw 30 points on any team, AND we still have 3 bullets that we havent loaded into the gun yet. GO SKINS !!!!!!!!

[Ibleedburgundy]

I don't know why people assumed Davis would instantaneously be ahead of Yoder. Yoder seems like a decent #2 TE to me.

Kelly and Thomas are Taylor Jacobs until they prove otherwise and I'm not saying they won't. Difference being that Jacobs was alleged to have had some good training camps. Besides, I don't see either of those guys outplaying Thrash this year so it's going to be an uphill battle, as it should be.

Of course all three should be given 2-3 years. It's too early to tell.

[Patrick]

I think that judging the draft after 4 games is extremely premature.

Fred is sitting behind a pro-bowl TE and a very capable vet. I don't expect him to be a huge part of the offense unless either Cooley or Yoder get injured.

Thomas' role in the offense has expanded. He was on the field for at least 10 snaps in Sunday's game, and had at least as many the week before. He has yet to make an impact in the passing game, but I did see him blocking down-field on some running plays, and that always makes me happy. It really bites that Heyer's penalty negated his best contribution so far.

Kelly is still battling the injury bug. With 4 other receivers, including an emerging Moss, complimentary Randle El, and competent Thrash, there really isn't a huge demand for Thomas to be on the field right now. I would have loved to see him run the corner route in the endzone that Moss was unable to bring down in bounds, but even Zorn admitted that with the new rules on force-outs, those plays don't make a whole lot of sense anymore.

Bottom line, it is far too early for any type of qualified judgment on these 3. Check back in about a year or 2.

I'm only really judging the result of thier combined contribution to the team for the first quarter of the season.

True that Davis has been behind Cooley but he's had problems getting the offense down. At least that the only way I can take it when the HC keeps commenting (Tuesday's 4:00pm, SportsTalk 980, Jim Zorn Show) of his improvement in practice each week and how he's beginning to get the offense down. ..... to his credit he has seen the field and even made a catch I believe.

Thomas is the only reason why I would grade the group at 0.75. He's at least made it onto the field the most and does have 2 catches.
Kelly (who I had high hopes for) is glass IMO. Started out strong in the early preseason and ever since has be fighting injuries.
NOW, don't get me wrong .......... I want nothing more than each of these guys to turn to be pro-bowlers - if nothing else solid players AND THEY might. BUT as of right now and what I've seen ..... Ain't showing me nothing!

[shally]

This is just a temporary thread. I would almost say they are MIA. Thomas has been in for a few plays. I thought Davis would start to have an impact but seems to have disappeared, unless I just have totally missed him with all the other great action occurring. What has happened or is occurring? Your thoughts?

what rookie receivers ??? lol

actually, it will take some time, given what poor shape they came into camp in..

[Redskin-4-life]

what rookie receivers ??? lol

actually, it will take some time, given what poor shape they came into camp in..

I was thinking the same thing. In fact we can say what draft? Horton and Brooks is the only rookies on the team that you see on the field. Thomas is getting some playing time, but it seems that he's just out there to run block, or give high fives after a play.

[bergiemoore]

I was thinking the same thing. In fact we can say what draft? Horton and Brooks is the only rookies on the team that you see on the field. Thomas is getting some playing time, but it seems that he's just out there to run block, or give high fives after a play.

Kareem Moore made a couple plays on the punt/kick coverage units (he was all over Packman according to JLC), and got on the field when Blache put in the Quarters package. He has passed Hamilton on the depth chart.

Jackson played some, recording one tackle on Witten 2 plays before the Horton interception. Jackson made the active list over James, who may still not be 100%, health wise, however, he played in the first 2 games.

Davis was active, however, when Cooley takes all but 5 offensive snaps, and Yoder plays the part of the Blocking TE so well, I don't want him on the field that much. That said, he was in there for a couple of plays, but had no targets.


Tryon, Kelly, and Rinehart were inactive.

Kelly's injury status concerns me, but the offense is clearly able to get along just fine without him, and it's way too soon to call him a bust.

Rinehart won't be activated unless Heyer and Fabini are unable to go on Sunday, or he starts playing Center.

Tryon is a project who seems to be improving in practices, according to the Redskins Blog, but probably won't be active unless one of the CBs ahead of him gets injured, or steps up as a special teamer. Torrence is playing like this is a contract year for him (which it is) in his limited time on the field.

Brennan is the third QB, and, while technically inactive, is able to play in emergency situations. I don't know what the coaches would need to see from him to promote him to 2nd string, but you have to figure that this is another area where you have to be happy that he's not contributing, as that would mean that there's something seriously wrong with your QB depth.

Altogether, the rookies are developing at a normal pace. Only Horton has turned out to be a real difference maker at this point in the season, and that's extremely ironic considering he was the last of them in the draft order.

[cal_junior]

Since the offense is playing well (knock on wood), I would think that would be all the more reason to bring the rookies along slowly and have them ready for the later stages of the season and, more importantly, the next few seasons.

Has there been a game where people feel if those guys were in, it would changed a game dramatically? I say as long as the team is winning and offense isn't an issue take it slow.

[guess88]

Way too early to judge... rookie receivers generally don't contribute right away. they're progressing normally, and if we're winning, I could care less for now.

[shally]

Way too early to judge... rookie receivers generally don't contribute right away. they're progressing normally, and if we're winning, I could care less for now.


would have loved to see thomas get that td against the cards.. would have gotten him pumped for certain...

[Battle Cat]

It is still really early. Hopefully they are all learning the offense and can contribute more in the second half of the season. I hope we don't look back though and wish we had drafted the Jackson kid out of California who plays with the Eagles now. He seems to have a little S. Moss to him.

[guess88]

would have loved to see thomas get that td against the cards.. would have gotten him pumped for certain...

oh for sure, always hate to see a rookie get his 1st TD taken away. But I'm expecting him to have another soon, and hopefully much more in the long run.

[jaylen]

I'll leave it in Zorn's hands. With the way our offense has looked I'll just assume he doesn't feel they can help us in any meaningful way right now.

Zorn seems much more particular about the rookies on offense doing things a certain way and they obviously aren't fulfilling that for the coach. I just hope at some point he integrates them. Hard to imagine he's soured on all 3 after drafting the guys already.

Zorn doesn't seem to trust his rookies on offense something that surprises me but he's a stickler for detail.

Thomas I'm betting is close to becoming a contribuor and being worked into some sort of a role. Kelly I think could play but with the way Moss and crew are playing he probably feels like his impact versus keeping a spot open for other areas just doesn't warrant it yet.

[colkurtz]

Thomas had a TD called back for a penalty. At least he's on the field and made a few catches.

Davis has surprised me, since he did something in the PS. But as others have said he's playing behind Cooley - who's been catching and blocking well. Yoder has been blocking well.

Kelly's been hurt but perhaps coming back this week.

Frankly we could use any of these guy's in the Red Zone or short yardage possession catches. Waiting for one of these guys to step up.

It's about heart, desire, conditioning, ability, film review and learning the plays. So far, Horton has beat out the entire group. Let's see how they do as the season progresses.

[VegasSkinsFan]

Red Zone would be perfect for davis.....i have high hopes for him. Would love to see moss,davis on one side with thomas,cooley on the other side, portis ready to roll into the flat. I think with the wco it would be hard to figure out who to stop, but I am not a coach and am probably missing something important. GO SKINS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

It sucks that we aren't getting much from them, but its also good that we aren't depending on them right now--puts less pressure on them. I can't wait to see just how good the offense could be once all three of the guys are ready and set to make an impact.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think Devin thomas has shown some promisew, but it doesn't bode well that we haven't gone to him deep yet (aside from on that broken plat TD that was called back).

And Malcolm Kelly has pretty much been a paper weight. I am impressed, however, that he has avoided developing a rash on his backside from all that time on the bench. Hopefully, he'll be ready to play soon.

[colkurtz]

I think Devin thomas has shown some promisew, but it doesn't bode well that we haven't gone to him deep yet (aside from on that broken plat TD that was called back).

And Malcolm Kelly has pretty much been a paper weight. I am impressed, however, that he has avoided developing a rash on his backside from all that time on the bench. Hopefully, he'll be ready to play soon.

Pine sore?

Splinteritis?

Maybe he'll show up in real shape for TC.

[VegasSkinsFan]

At least MK made it through a complete practice today, ankle still heavily taped. GO SKINS !!!!

[SimplyZ]

For once i love being excited about the future AND winning.

Its only 4 weeks, but we have a few potential stars waiting in the wings and we have a good team on the field.

I'm dissapointed neither WRs have made the impact desean jackson has made, but he's an injury fill-in and happened to impress. I think by week 8 or so we could see flashes of Thomas' brilliance. He fits the scheme and has speed to add to it.

[skinsfan36]

thomas has shown promise and is going to eb better than taylor jacobs(stop the comparision)
kelly has 1 catch that got me excited(used his big body to shield defender)
davis is stuck behind a top 3 TE and a seasoned vet

[lorimike]

This is just a temporary thread. I would almost say they are MIA. Thomas has been in for a few plays. I thought Davis would start to have an impact but seems to have disappeared, unless I just have totally missed him with all the other great action occurring. What has happened or is occurring? Your thoughts?

Too early to tell. Davis isn't getting a chance. I think eventually Thomas will break out. Malcolm Kelly appears to be a soft player who cannot stay healthy. But did have one nice catch on a slant pattern

[skinsfan36]

idk about kelly as he prob wont be active sunday because he doesnt cover kicks. will he or is he just bad at it?

[saratogan]

Thanks for your comments.

I actually believed that one of them should be contributing at this point, considering that we got three receivers in the 2nd round of the draft. There are two rookie receivers in the NFL who are having tremendous seasons already: Eddie Royal (VA Tech) and DeSean Jackson.

Of the three we drafted, I expected to see Kelly contribute the most due to the amount of playing time and quality of play (he only missed a few games due to injuries during 3 years) demonstrated while at O. I did not expect Thomas to step in because he was too raw ( and it is still showing - especially short and middle routes). Davis is an enigma to me. Athletic and powerful and great hands - awesome combination for a tightend. The only knock, according to some scouts/analysts was how long it would take him to learn NFL offense playbook. But it appeared that he was progressing in the pre-season and I thought we would see a little more of him than we have.

Ok, I am disappointed. Two came into camp not in appropriate condition. One has stayed on the side line with various injuries. Another has been in sparingly, but needs a lot of help to learn how to run short and mid-routes. I assume, as I have not heard otherwise, that Davis is not in much because Yoder is just damn good.

So summarizing, I should keep my disappointment (frustration, anger, etc) in a bottle and chill. And, as most of you have pointed out, the vets are executing, let the rookies continue to learn (sounds a lot like Gibbs' approach) and slowly work them in. Sorry, I still want Kelly to come in and be that tall, talented, great hands, wide out that we have lacked for so many years.

Got it off my chest. Time to go. :eaglesuk:

[guess88]

Thanks for your comments.

I actually believed that one of them should be contributing at this point, considering that we got three receivers in the 2nd round of the draft. There are two rookie receivers in the NFL who are having tremendous seasons already: Eddie Royal (VA Tech) and DeSean Jackson.

Of the three we drafted, I expected to see Kelly contribute the most due to the amount of playing time and quality of play (he only missed a few games due to injuries during 3 years) demonstrated while at O. I did not expect Thomas to step in because he was too raw ( and it is still showing - especially short and middle routes). Davis is an enigma to me. Athletic and powerful and great hands - awesome combination for a tightend. The only knock, according to some scouts/analysts was how long it would take him to learn NFL offense playbook. But it appeared that he was progressing in the pre-season and I thought we would see a little more of him than we have.

Ok, I am disappointed. Two came into camp not in appropriate condition. One has stayed on the side line with various injuries. Another has been in sparingly, but needs a lot of help to learn how to run short and mid-routes. I assume, as I have not heard otherwise, that Davis is not in much because Yoder is just damn good.

So summarizing, I should keep my disappointment (frustration, anger, etc) in a bottle and chill. And, as most of you have pointed out, the vets are executing, let the rookies continue to learn (sounds a lot like Gibbs' approach) and slowly work them in. Sorry, I still want Kelly to come in and be that tall, talented, great hands, wide out that we have lacked for so many years.

Got it off my chest. Time to go. :eaglesuk:


Woooossssaaaaaaa :)

[shally]

idk about kelly as he prob wont be active sunday because he doesnt cover kicks. will he or is he just bad at it?

just never did much of it, i figure.. plus, as brittle as he has been, no sense in risking him on ST's

[PHIL32]

way too early to judge kelly,thomas and davis.it is rare that a wr will impact
in his first year and get significant playing time.by midseason expect to see
all three in packages for certain plays.year 2 and 3 they will be starters and look like pro's.

very excited about chris horton and kareem moore.both look comfortable
playing and will be valuable for years.





:dalassuk::dance:

[SkinsKY]

It sucks that we aren't getting much from them, but its also good that we aren't depending on them right now--puts less pressure on them. I can't wait to see just how good the offense could be once all three of the guys are ready and set to make an impact.

Exactly. Even if they don't pan out, we're still fine. Once these guys can contribute, we'll be great.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Zorn's commented today on the status of our rookie receivers:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/10/zorn_on_the_rookie_receivers.html

To summarize, Kelly is hurt, Thomas is stupid, and Davis is (was?) lazy.

[bergiemoore]

Zorn's commented today on the status of our rookie receivers:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/10/zorn_on_the_rookie_receivers.html

To summarize, Kelly is hurt, Thomas is stupid, and Davis is (was?) lazy.

It's clear that Zorn doesn't pull any punches. He clearly has no tolerance for guys not living up to their potential. Hopefully this motivates the triplets.

[silverspring]

"And I think these rookies - at least our guys - are seeing that it's much harder than it looks. You're the big man on campus, and you're the draft choice and you're all this and you're all that. When you get here, you're one of the guys, because everybody else is good, too."


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/10/zorn_on_the_rookie_receivers.html

I think this explains that there is a lot more than just injuries stopping our rookies from getting playing time. It is unfortunate, but I am glad zorn is teaching them discipline now while they are still malleable.

[silverspring]

oops for some reason i didn't see this thread:
http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=47168

I should have just added comment there...

[MAATOPDOGG]

I think all our pick will produce for us at some point. but I have to admit that Kelly has more upside than Thomas. He reminds me of TO and can become that kind of player. Take a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9W7nTi4JFQ.

[shally]

It's clear that Zorn doesn't pull any punches. He clearly has no tolerance for guys not living up to their potential. Hopefully this motivates the triplets.

agree.. let's see how they respond..

[shally]

I think all our pick will produce for us at some point. but I have to admit that Kelly has more upside than Thomas. He reminds me of TO and can become that kind of player. Take a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9W7nTi4JFQ.

first of all, he sure didnt look hurt in any of those clips

second, he might have the softest hands of any receiver to play for the skins in a long time

third, he might not have stopwatch speed, but he sure got open a lot

it will be great to finally see him on the field..

[jaylen]

I just think Zorn is hard on Rookies on his side of the ball he's a perfectionist and wants things done a certain way, I really don't think many rookies would play right away on offense with him. He's criticized all of them he threw water on the Colt craze quick.

I think Kelly is a natural polished wr that if his body would have held up would be a much bigger part of things But he may never be right with the knee's with teams flagging his knee's as a chronic problem.

But I feel like Thomas has much bigger upside and could become a star. He has all the tools except wr instincts, he's only played 1 high level season at wideout. He's a converted rb. He runs bad routes and is way to physical. BUT if we coach him up and he really puts the work in he could be a huge star because he's so physical.

Thomas is very raw but very determined.

Davis is a prima dona coming from USC, the light is coming on now for him so I expect he's gonna get more and more pt.

[native skin]

I was really siked to see what Kelley would do. My neighbor is a big OU fan and I saw alot of his games. That kid has awesome hands and really does remind me, I really hate to say it, of a TO like receiver, minus the low IQ and idiot mentallity. Jaylen I think you right on when you say that his knees will always be his achilles heal, defenses will always target him. I hate to see that happen to someone with his awesome ability. Heck, maybe a miracle will happen and his knees will heal up and hold up.

[skinsfan36]

for some reason i think one of the reasons he is taking shots at them is that they are all bigger parts of the gameplan this week.just a hunch

[guess88]

for some reason i think one of the reasons he is taking shots at them is that they are all bigger parts of the gameplan this week.just a hunch

maybe, but Zorn doesn't seem to be the deceptive type of coach. he lays it out plain and simple, doesn't take crap, and expects excellence. seems more like a public message to them to get their act together.

[warpaint]

what rookie receivers ??? lol

actually, it will take some time, given what poor shape they came into camp in..

shally, with this group of wide receivers,if we are looking for anything that might come close to making a pro bowl, then ,i think there is an old song by johnny mathais that may apply here "untill the 12th of never" .

[saratogan]

As I started this thread, I had hoped that we would have seen more on field performance on which to base comments. Unfortunately, that is not the case, so far. Therefore, it supports Zorn's comments about each of the three rookies, and the pre-draft analysts comments.

Kelly -- concern about his physical durability (at athe time it was solely his wrist - nothing, repeat nothing in his past indicated major knee wories. He missed only 3 or 4 games over 3 years, althought he missed 2 bowl games (I thinking off the top of my head, which is very dangerous). But Kelly is a tremendous receiver with the quickness and ability to get open (football sense) and the power to handle the physical defensive backs and great hands to catch almost anything thrown his way. His nagging injury is becoming, in my mind, quite problematic. If he is not able to play in the next 3 games, then what should the Redskins do with him?

Thomas is a one year speedster. A very raw talent. Obvious he is still undisciplined in his route running. He seems to me to be too cocky. This is supported by the fact that he came to camp out of condition, that he has trouble learning the playbook, and after his lone touchdown he decided to "dance in front of the camera" . (Some may not be bothered by that display. For me, he has not come close to earning the right to do so, especially considering his penalities and failures.) On the plus side, he is contributing and he does show more talent than the plethora of odds and ends wide receivers we have had in camp for the past decade. If Moss, REL, Thrash, our coaches can work on his technique and his head he can be a real threat later this year. If so, I will become worried about his "cockiness".


Davis is a prototype TE coming out of one of the best programs in college. Draft analysts questioned his ability to learn the complexities of the NFL playbook quickly. We no longer question his blocking abilitiy (he has opened some tremendous holes for CP) already. Zorn has praised Davis for his blocking! And his catching ability (he has caught a few passes) is just something nice to watch -- so fluid. I think his ability has lit a torch under Yoder and has made Yoder a better player and that is why we do not see more of Davis. I am going out on a prediction limb and say that Davis will look like a cheap 2nd round pick and make Cerrato look like a genius.

If either Kelly or Thomas develop along with Davis this year, then this draft will be successful because of its possitive impacts with the offense. We still need that tall, talented, good hands wide out to compliment Moss and REL.

Grading:

Kelly: D+ (Due to injuries and out of condition, but obvious potential)

Thomas: C (Due to penalities, poor route skills, lack of conditioning, but is starting to produce)

Davis: B (Due to solid production in blocking game, came to camp in fairly good shape and is showing desire, and has shown he can catch. Has solid upside potential)

How do you diehard fans critque my brain infartarction (pardon wordsmithing :smash: ) analysis????

[skinsfan36]

davis has like 1 catch(or 0) and you give him a better grade the thomas?

[bergiemoore]

davis has like 1 catch(or 0) and you give him a better grade the thomas?

Look at their respective yardage. Thomas's 40 yards receiving is eclipsed by his 3 PI calls for 30 yards, plus negating at least one first down and taking away a drive late in the game against Philly.

Davis, while sitting idly by with 1 catch for 6 yards, hasn't made any mistakes.

[BurgundyNGold]

Grading:

Kelly: D+ (Due to injuries and out of condition, but obvious potential)

Thomas: C (Due to penalities, poor route skills, lack of conditioning, but is starting to produce)

Davis: B (Due to solid production in blocking game, came to camp in fairly good shape and is showing desire, and has shown he can catch. Has solid upside potential)

How do you diehard fans critque my brain infartarction (pardon wordsmithing) analysis????
I think you're being too generous, frankly. If DeSean Jackson (drafted after Thomas and Davis and one pick before Kelly) is at the top of the rookie WR scale with an "A", I don't see how our guys can be considered passing.

Kelly came into camp out of shape, has been inactive or injured for all but 2 games and hasn't done anything on the field when he's gotten on it. That's pretty much an F in my book.

Thomas, who apparently also came into camp out of shape, certainly has all of the physical tools but I don't see how anyone cannot figure out how to run a limited subset of routes in 6 months of doing it every day with a position coach there to work with you. Throw in a couple of drops and a handful of stupid, costly penalties and I really can't see how the kid grades out at more than a D.

I'll give Davis a C because he has shown serious flashes in the preseason and because, with Cooley and Yoder playing so well, he cannot get onto the field very much.

[jaylen]

I think you're being too generous, frankly. If DeSean Jackson (drafted after Thomas and Davis and one pick before Kelly) is at the top of the rookie WR scale with an "A", I don't see how our guys can be considered passing.

Kelly came into camp out of shape, has been inactive or injured for all but 2 games and hasn't done anything on the field when he's gotten on it. That's pretty much an F in my book.

Thomas, who apparently also came into camp out of shape, certainly has all of the physical tools but I don't see how anyone cannot figure out how to run a limited subset of routes in 6 months of doing it every day with a position coach there to work with you. Throw in a couple of drops and a handful of stupid, costly penalties and I really can't see how the kid grades out at more than a D.

I'll give Davis a C because he has shown serious flashes in the preseason and because, with Cooley and Yoder playing so well, he cannot get onto the field very much.


when 1 or 2 of these guys become stars you're gonna feel foolish for making this post.

[BurgundyNGold]

when 1 or 2 of these guys become stars you're gonna feel foolish for making this post.
Why would I feel foolish for making my post? I never said they wouldn't eventually be successful, I merely graded their performance to date. Can you make a logical argument that what I said was not true or accurate?

It seems to me that the only person to go out on a limb and say that 1 or 2 of these guys are going to be anything one way or the other is you. You had better hope that 1 or 2 of these guys become "stars". If not, you'll be the one looking foolish.

[guess88]

Why would I feel foolish for making my post? I never said they wouldn't eventually be successful, I merely graded their performance to date. Can you make a logical argument that what I said was not true or accurate?

It seems to me that the only person to go out on a limb and say that 1 or 2 of these guys are going to be anything one way or the other is you. You had better hope that 1 or 2 of these guys become "stars". If not, you'll be the one looking foolish.

Gotta agree with BNG here. Regardless of what issues our triplets have been facing, they simply haven't had much output to this day. Not saying they won't in the long term, or maybe even the 2nd half of the season, but there just isn't much to go by besides injury, penalties, and lazyness.

[skinsfan36]

well kelly had his knee drained and will be inactive sunday. as much as i hate to say it he will probbaly end up on ir any week now. aroshamandu will prob be signed then

[Lavar703]

Kelly needs to be shut down for the year so we dont risk further damage. I dont think any of us expected either rookie reciever to contribute much but I can honestly say im pretty disappointed with Kelly, he has a ton of skill and his knees are really holding him back. Picking Desean Jackson would have been stupid, hes the same thing as Moss and we had no need for another smurf.

[shally]

Kelly needs to be shut down for the year so we dont risk further damage. I dont think any of us expected either rookie reciever to contribute much but I can honestly say im pretty disappointed with Kelly, he has a ton of skill and his knees are really holding him back. Picking Desean Jackson would have been stupid, hes the same thing as Moss and we had no need for another smurf.

still too early.. meachem had knee issues and a lost year 1.. he has come back to be a deep factor this year.. hopefully kelly can as well

[shally]

well kelly had his knee drained and will be inactive sunday. as much as i hate to say it he will probbaly end up on ir any week now. aroshamandu will prob be signed then

would be nice to see if aroshamandu has anything to give..

[redwolf1218]

still too early.. meachem had knee issues and a lost year 1.. he has come back to be a deep factor this year.. hopefully kelly can as well

it seems like it is a recurring problem. is there some procedure he could have done to fix it?

i am actually expecting a breakout game from Thomas.

[silverspring]

I expect that we will hear about kelly getting another surgery this offseason that will hopefully fix his knee. The good thing about kelly is he isn't a speedster so if he loses a step no big deal. Kelly very well might turn into a total bust because of this knee, but he is so young, you would think he should be able to heal.

I have high hopes for Thomas, he is simply very inexperienced at the WR position, much less as a WR in the nfl. But he seems to be moving along nicely when especially you consider his lack of experience compounded with his out of shape issue and injury in pre-season.

[greatest2]

I expect that we will hear about kelly getting another surgery this offseason that will hopefully fix his knee. The good thing about kelly is he isn't a speedster so if he loses a step no big deal. Kelly very well might turn into a total bust because of this knee, but he is so young, you would think he should be able to heal.

I have high hopes for Thomas, he is simply very inexperienced at the WR position, much less as a WR in the nfl. But he seems to be moving along nicely when especially you consider his lack of experience compounded with his out of shape issue and injury in pre-season.

agree about another procedure for the knee. i think it is almost hopeless for him to contribute anything this season that some other off the street number 5 could. i say we put him on IR, and let him get the knee right, and be very very conservative with it (since he will have so much time from now to OTA's). we sign another number 5, somebody preferrably who has west coast experience and we lose nothing on the field. the only thing we miss out on is Kelly getting experience. yes this is big, but i think he is more polished then alot of other receivers and can contribute without experience and i think getting him healthy for the rest of his career hopefully out wieghs getting minimal experience this year.

as far as thomas. he has the skill set. size, speed, toughness to block, breaking tackles, can sell double moves, hands. what he lacks is something that takes a long time to develop. that is good solid route running. he may have a break out game, or a couple, but i don't think we see him consistent til midway through year 2 maybe year 3. he needs to learn the position, the ins and outs of route running, how to get off press, how to work a zone. lucky for us we have a guy like zorn to teach him this stuff from a QB level. i wouldn't mind his buddy Largent coming in to mentor the kid.

[jaylen]

Why would I feel foolish for making my post? I never said they wouldn't eventually be successful, I merely graded their performance to date. Can you make a logical argument that what I said was not true or accurate?

It seems to me that the only person to go out on a limb and say that 1 or 2 of these guys are going to be anything one way or the other is you. You had better hope that 1 or 2 of these guys become "stars". If not, you'll be the one looking foolish.

you're the one with the crystal ball out drawing conclusions 5 games into a season. and doing so quite certainly when 2 of the 3 guys were injured very early. In 5 games you could look even more foolish.

special teams aside our lowly rookie Thomas out performed jackson on Sunday.

[InsomniaKiller]

you're the one with the crystal ball out drawing conclusions 5 games into a season. and doing so quite certainly when 2 of the 3 guys were injured very early. In 5 games you could look even more foolish.

special teams aside our lowly rookie Thomas out performed jackson on Sunday.

He's grading the receivers based on what they've done so far, not what they have the potential to do in the future. How does a "crystal ball" fit in there?

I hope both guys turn out to be great. Thomas, if he gets his head on right, can potentially contribute quite a bit this year. But none of our top 3 draft picks have done much of anything at this point.

You seem to be the one making predictions in this thread. Hopefully you're right. But, I don't think anybody has counted out any of our rookies after 5 weeks. That would be silly.

[shally]

it seems like it is a recurring problem. is there some procedure he could have done to fix it?

i am actually expecting a breakout game from Thomas.

i dont know.. there are being very coy about things.. dont have enough info

[shally]

I expect that we will hear about kelly getting another surgery this offseason that will hopefully fix his knee. The good thing about kelly is he isn't a speedster so if he loses a step no big deal. Kelly very well might turn into a total bust because of this knee, but he is so young, you would think he should be able to heal.

I have high hopes for Thomas, he is simply very inexperienced at the WR position, much less as a WR in the nfl. But he seems to be moving along nicely when especially you consider his lack of experience compounded with his out of shape issue and injury in pre-season.

the eagles corners tended to treat him with a lot of respect when he was in there... not like rogers, who was right on top of desean jackson and snuffed out his chances for any receptions

[greatest2]

the eagles corners tended to treat him with a lot of respect when he was in there... not like rogers, who was right on top of desean jackson and snuffed out his chances for any receptions

i think that is a function of the play calling. the eagles do alot of blitz, but they also play zone or off man behind it. trying to confuse the Q, or get him to throw it hot, and make the tackle.

Asante has made a name and nice paycheck out of this. he is probably the best "driving" corner in the league. he doesn't have great speed, but this helps him alot. of course, this allows him to be beat on pump fakes and double moves.

so i don't think it was respect given to thomas, more a function of the play calling, and he didn't influence that play call.

[shally]

i think that is a function of the play calling. the eagles do alot of blitz, but they also play zone or off man behind it. trying to confuse the Q, or get him to throw it hot, and make the tackle.

Asante has made a name and nice paycheck out of this. he is probably the best "driving" corner in the league. he doesn't have great speed, but this helps him alot. of course, this allows him to be beat on pump fakes and double moves.

so i don't think it was respect given to thomas, more a function of the play calling, and he didn't influence that play call.

then, let me put it another way.. thomas was open on many of his routes.. jackson wasnt open at all.

[SimplyZ]

then, let me put it another way.. thomas was open on many of his routes.. jackson wasnt open at all.

Rogers > Samuel?

[skinsfan36]

Rogers > Samuel?

that is most likely a true statement samuel has better hands though

[guess88]

that is most likely a true statement samuel has better hands though

So does an emu.

[BurgundyNGold]

you're the one with the crystal ball out drawing conclusions 5 games into a season. and doing so quite certainly when 2 of the 3 guys were injured very early. In 5 games you could look even more foolish.
Read my post again. You're the only one making predictions about these guys. I merely point out how 2 of them have thus far been worthless and the other one can't get playing time. That's not a prediction, that's reality.

special teams aside our lowly rookie Thomas out performed jackson on Sunday.
DeShaun Jackson? The one who hung a punt return TD on us? You're drunk.

[Redskin4Life]

Well, it looks like Kelly's going to IR. That maybe the best thing for the team and him. I'm guessing that WR Aromashodu will be heading to the active roster with WR Mann getting a chance on the PS...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/10/after_setback_kelly_may_be_hea.html

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, it looks like Kelly's going to IR. That maybe the best thing for the team and him. I'm guessing that WR Aromashodu will be heading to the active roster with WR Mann getting a chance on the PS...

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2008/10/after_setback_kelly_may_be_hea.html


http://www.thisshirtrocks.com/productphotos/shocker_close_display.jpg

What a waste. I wish they had just pulled the trigger on this like 2 weeks ago so that we didn't have to cut Hamilton or lose Crummey off of our PS to Cincy.

[Redskin4Life]

http://www.thisshirtrocks.com/productphotos/shocker_close_display.jpg

What a waste. I wish they had just pulled the trigger on this like 2 weeks ago so that we didn't have to cut Hamilton or lose Crummey off of our PS to Cincy.
I honestly don't think putting Kelly on IR earlier would have saved Crummey or Hamilton.... we couldn't justify having Crummey on the active roster (and don't forget it was only yesterday that we lost Crummey... we could have IRed Kelly yesterday if we wanted to keep Crummey). And Hamilton won't get a fair chance here with Horton and Moore getting more reps (and if they want Ham back, I think he's still on the streets).

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

What a shame... if our three 2nd rounders would be performing like 2nd rounders complementing the starters, our offense could be awesome.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I was actually gonna make a poll about this, oh well....

This is kind of like taking a timeout after 15 seconds ticks by, when you need to take one right away; such a waste of time. This shouldv'e been done weeks ago and it sucks but its reality. MK just needs to get physically and mentally ready for 09 and this time will be good for him if he uses it correctly.

[BurgundyNGold]

I honestly don't think putting Kelly on IR earlier would have saved Crummey or Hamilton.... we couldn't justify having Crummey on the active roster (and don't forget it was only yesterday that we lost Crummey... we could have IRed Kelly yesterday if we wanted to keep Crummey). And Hamilton won't get a fair chance here with Horton and Moore getting more reps (and if they want Ham back, I think he's still on the streets).
Hamilton and Crummey are just examples of things we could have done. Maybe we sign Mason from Baltimore's PS. Who knows?

The point is that Kelly has been injured 80% of the time, cannot run his routes properly when he's healthy and is way, way behind picking up the offense. It doesn't take Nostradamus to foresee weeks ago that Kelly was not going to contribute much of anything this season. Better he get go on IR and get healthy so that we can determine if he is a boom or a bust in 2009... because when I think big time WR, I think Oklahoma. :)

[shally]

maybe we call up asomogha ?? or mann ? at least find someone who can play ST's and develop

any idea on who will replace crummey on IR yet ?

before everyone goes bonkers, yes, avery and jackson have been productive this year.. but look at the other high WR picks

hardy 5 catches
sweed 1 catch
manningham 1 catch
nelson 10 catches

[BurgundyNGold]

maybe we call up asomogha ?? or mann ? at least find someone who can play ST's and develop

any idea on who will replace crummey on IR yet ?

before everyone goes bonkers, yes, avery and jackson have been productive this year.. but look at the other high WR picks

hardy 5 catches
sweed 1 catch
manningham 1 catch
nelson 10 catches
True, but with 3 of the top 9 receivers taken off the board, you'd think that the Redskins would've had better odds of picking up one game changer.

Thomas could be it, assuming they throw him the ball every now and again.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

True, but with 3 of the top 9 receivers taken off the board, you'd think that the Redskins would've had better odds of picking up one game changer.

Thomas could be it, assuming they throw him the ball every now and again.
I was about to post the same thing! If every one of those three draft choices were a coin toss (in terms of probability), the odds for us coming empty would be 12.5% (87.5% success rate). I know there are YEARS of football for that to be determined, just pointing out how awful would be the job of the scouting department if that scenario turned out.

[tyrone_rush_fan]

I'd like to see Maurice Mann back here. I know the prevailing thought back in preseason was that he was just another one of the bunch, nothing special. But from what I saw, I thought he did kind of stand out, he was just a more fluid athlete than the others.

[JsMaViSd]

i myself would like them to move up Gant. being 6'3 220lbs id like to see what he could do

[Battle Cat]

I was about to post the same thing! If every one of those three draft choices were a coin toss (in terms of probability), the odds for us coming empty would be 12.5% (87.5% success rate). I know there are YEARS of football for that to be determined, just pointing out how awful would be the job of the scouting department if that scenario turned out.
I think we kind of backed ourself into a corner by demanding that it be a large receiver that we draft. I think the pressure was to get a tall receiver 1 thing that Jackson and Avery are not.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think we kind of backed ourself into a corner by demanding that it be a large receiver that we draft. I think the pressure was to get a tall receiver 1 thing that Jackson and Avery are not.
That explains 1 of the 3 picks, lol.

BTW, I have nothing against any of our picks yet. I think Thomas has the raw skills, but my concern is that he is so green that we won't see anything out of him until his contract year, predictably.

Fred Davis looks like he can be a complement to Cooley for years, honestly.

As for Kelly, who knows about that guy. He's been injured so much, nobody can get a bead on him. Needless to say, he won't be helping us this year.

[BurgundyNGold]

i myself would like them to move up Gant. being 6'3 220lbs id like to see what he could do
It may be that Gant's play in practice is the reason that coaches feel they can move Kelly to IR and not miss a beat. :whoknows:

[AliBabba]

True, but with 3 of the top 9 receivers taken off the board, you'd think that the Redskins would've had better odds of picking up one game changer.

Thomas could be it, assuming they throw him the ball every now and again.

First of all Davis is not a WR so I don' t know why you'd include him in your statistical analysis. Furthermore, the 2 that have been successful, Avery and Jackson, were thrust into starting roles from the very beginning due to lack of depth and injury on their respective teams. Finally, we were not willing to consider either Jackson or Avery due to the fact that we were targeting bigger receivers and did not wish to add another smurf to our WR corps. While Avery if avaiable AFTER we had picked our big receiver in Thomas would have at least been considered as he's 5-10+, Desean Jackson is only about 5-9 and would have made zero sense to select on this team.

We cannot compare our selections to those two for these reasons and more, its too early to be labeling our picks as busts as well. Kelly has been a huge source of frustration but Thomas will get more involved as the year goes on. He has shown a real spark in ST and if he is able to minimize the penalties all signs point to increased PT on offense.

Davis' selection was a bit bewildering in April but I like what I've seen from him, especially the last 2 games. He's extremely versatile and will quickly surpass Cooley in terms of blocking ability, imo. I cannot wait until Zorn starts implementing 3 TE sets on the goalline and JC builds enough trust in Davis that he becomes a factor in the passing game. His ability to run after catch is excellent for a man his size, hence using him on that busted end-around last week, and from what I've seen on tape he has very good hands.

[Battle Cat]

That explains 1 of the 3 picks, lol.

BTW, I have nothing against any of our picks yet. I think Thomas has the raw skills, but my concern is that he is so green that we won't see anything out of him until his contract year, predictably.

Fred Davis looks like he can be a complement to Cooley for years, honestly.

As for Kelly, who knows about that guy. He's been injured so much, nobody can get a bead on him. Needless to say, he won't be helping us this year.
I haven't given up on any of our draft picks either. But even with it being early it is still fair to point out that Avery (Rams) Jackson (Eagles) and Royal (Broncos) are all performing really well. We will have to see 2 years from now where all these guys are though to have a true judgment on this last draft.

[BurgundyNGold]

First of all Davis is not a WR so I don' t know why you'd include him in your statistical analysis. Furthermore, the 2 that have been successful, Avery and Jackson, were thrust into starting roles from the very beginning due to lack of depth and injury on their respective teams. Finally, we were not willing to consider either Jackson or Avery due to the fact that we were targeting bigger receivers and did not wish to add another smurf to our WR corps. While Avery if avaiable AFTER we had picked our big receiver in Thomas would have at least been considered as he's 5-10+, Desean Jackson is only about 5-9 and would have made zero sense to select on this team.
We had the need to pick a large WR, no doubt. But did we need to take 2 big WR and a TE all within 20 or 30 picks of each other? There weren't other positions that were rated higher on our draft board at any of these slots? Really?

We cannot compare our selections to those two for these reasons and more, its too early to be labeling our picks as busts as well. Kelly has been a huge source of frustration but Thomas will get more involved as the year goes on. He has shown a real spark in ST and if he is able to minimize the penalties all signs point to increased PT on offense.
We'll have to see where these guys end up. I will reserve judgement on these guys until at least this point of next season, probably later. But so far it is not unfair to point out that, smurfs or otherwise, Avery, Jackson and Royal are all contributing more than our guys. And whether or not they were thrust into a starting position, I did notice that these players apparently came to camp in shape or were able to rise above senior citizen vets (read Thrash) to get their PT.

Davis' selection was a bit bewildering in April but I like what I've seen from him, especially the last 2 games. He's extremely versatile and will quickly surpass Cooley in terms of blocking ability, imo. I cannot wait until Zorn starts implementing 3 TE sets on the goalline and JC builds enough trust in Davis that he becomes a factor in the passing game. His ability to run after catch is excellent for a man his size, hence using him on that busted end-around last week, and from what I've seen on tape he has very good hands.
Davis actually looks the best of all of our 2nd round picks so far. I think Thomas can contribute but if he can't figure out how to run an 8 or a 9, he might very well be as dumb as a box of rocks. As for Kelly, we'll just have to defer until next season on his evaluation. He's starting at slightly less than zero in my book, however.

[Keino]

Looks like Kelly is headed to the IR or Zorn is considering it according to JLC.

Honestly, I think the team had both WRs rated in the first round and expected to be choosing between them there as opposed to being able to draft both of them in the 2nd. I think in the mind of the decision makers (Vinny) these were 'value' verses 'need' selections. I think the same applies to the Davis pick in terms of picking value over need.

Edit: Also, I think it takes WRs longer to make the transition to the pro game for whatever reason. I don't think they really show what type of player they will be until the 3rd year.

[AliBabba]

We had the need to pick a large WR, no doubt. But did we need to take 2 big WR and a TE all within 20 or 30 picks of each other? There weren't other positions that were rated higher on our draft board at any of these slots? Really?

That's the part that left me and I suspect you and many others so "bewildered." Unfortunately, I was in the hospital when this year's draft happened because of my sister and I still remember receiving the text that said "We just picked another pass-catcher! TE from USC." What I did afterward was truly unacceptable when you consider the source of my grief in comparison to what was going on around me. I totally lost it b/c I couldn't believe that Snyderrato had pissed away the three picks after I had been so proud of them for the trade that got 'em. OL? DL? CB?

We'll have to see where these guys end up. I will reserve judgement on these guys until at least this point of next season, probably later. But so far it is not unfair to point out that, smurfs or otherwise, Avery, Jackson and Royal are all contributing more than our guys. And whether or not they were thrust into a starting position, I did notice that these players apparently came to camp in shape or were able to rise above senior citizen vets (read Thrash) to get their PT.

It was pretty disapointing when I realized that both the guys were actually behind Thrash and that wasn't just a Jim Zorn motivation tool. Thomas is still behind Thrash isn't he? ugh

Davis actually looks the best of all of our 2nd round picks so far. I think Thomas can contribute but if he can't figure out how to run an 8 or a 9, he might very well be as dumb as a box of rocks. As for Kelly, we'll just have to defer until next season on his evaluation. He's starting at slightly less than zero in my book, however.

Can't disagree with any of that.

............ Kelly really let me down b/c I thought from everything I read, saw and heard that he'd be NFL-ready and be an immediate contributor. Man was I wrong, since he wasn't even NFL training camp ready. Here's to 2009 Malcolm :beer:

[bergiemoore]

That's the part that left me and I suspect you and many others so "bewildered." Unfortunately, I was in the hospital when this year's draft happened because of my sister and I still remember receiving the text that said "We just picked another pass-catcher! TE from USC." What I did afterward was truly unacceptable when you consider the source of my grief in comparison to what was going on around me. I totally lost it b/c I couldn't believe that Snyderrato had pissed away the three picks after I had been so proud of them for the trade that got 'em. OL? DL? CB?



It was pretty disapointing when I realized that both the guys were actually behind Thrash and that wasn't just a Jim Zorn motivation tool. Thomas is still behind Thrash isn't he? ugh


They both started the season behind Thrash, which wasn't that much of a surprise considering the fact that he had more experience in the WCO than any of the other receivers on the field and adapted more easily to Zorn's system. As things stand right now, Kelly is injured and Thomas is seeing as much if not more playing time than Thrash.


Can't disagree with any of that.

............ Kelly really let me down b/c I thought from everything I read, saw and heard that he'd be NFL-ready and be an immediate contributor. Man was I wrong, since he wasn't even NFL training camp ready. Here's to 2009 Malcolm :beer:

Hopefully he'll get healthy in the offseason.

[MadDog97]

I think drafting Kelly was a mistake but Davis and Thomas will be fine. Both are showing potential and I look for Davis to displace Yoder as the number 2 TE. Thomas is still learning and may be more of an impact after the bye.

Kelly's knee will lead him to IR. After that, we will see next year. We definitely will not need to draft a wideout next year though. I still feel we should have drafted another position on the choice we used for Kelly.

[skinsfan36]

i like kelly but at this point drafting him is not making sense hope to be proved wrong. thomas and davis look to be progressing well. kelly cant get away from the trainer.
is is time for arosumadu. i hope so he looked decent in the preseason

[shally]

I think drafting Kelly was a mistake but Davis and Thomas will be fine. Both are showing potential and I look for Davis to displace Yoder as the number 2 TE. Thomas is still learning and may be more of an impact after the bye.

Kelly's knee will lead him to IR. After that, we will see next year. We definitely will not need to draft a wideout next year though. I still feel we should have drafted another position on the choice we used for Kelly.

too soon to write him off but i think he does need a year to let his knee quiet down fully

[shally]

i like kelly but at this point drafting him is not making sense hope to be proved wrong. thomas and davis look to be progressing well. kelly cant get away from the trainer.
is is time for arosumadu. i hope so he looked decent in the preseason

might end up being a tease like mix.. another big former auburn receiver.. let's hope he can remember his plays and play some special teams at least.. thrash is simply no threat as a receiver at all

[jaylen]

I think we made a mistake drafting Kelly but it might still pay off for a season or 2. I just have a hard time believing someone with his knee issues this early and from what I hear possibly some arthritis or structural situations that he even if he gets right at some point won't hold up longer than a couple season's.

sad to think about because i think he probably has very productive player talent.

I agree Thomas and Davis will be fine. I think Thomas will become an outstanding wr in time he has the tools he just doesn't understand the wr position at the elite level yet. He could explode on the scene next season or the year after and I still expect to see some eye catching plays from him this season.

I said Thrash was done last season and in camp he was just taking a spot as the 3rd wirdeout. I was very concerned that Zorn thought Thrash was gonna be so vital and gonna catch alot of passes.

[Lavar703]

Just IR him, were playing good without him. There is no need to risk further injury to his knees. Give him the time to rehab properly and let him come back at full speed nexy year

[Oregonian]

Just IR him, were playing good without him. There is no need to risk further injury to his knees. Give him the time to rehab properly and let him come back at full speed nexy year

Agreed.

I wonder what is really going on in that knee. Just some stubborn inflammation or a bigger underlying issue that will never truly resolve? The medical staff probably has an idea.

I must say, when I looked at that college highlight reel of Kelly at Oklahoma, I couldnt help but get excited. I can see why the Skins took a chance on the guy.

[Redskin4Life]

My guess is that Kelly's trying too hard to come back instead of resting it. With the rest of the season to get the inflamation down, I'm sure he'll be able to play the way we expect him to next year.

[guess88]

I wouldn't call MK a bust of a draftpick until he's actually rested up and gotten on the field. I'm fine with him going on IR this season, and letting him heal up to make a contribution next year. I know we all had high hopes for him this year, but if he comes back fully healthy with the same playmaking ability we saw in college, we'll finally have the big body possession receiver we were looking for and a very dangerous receiving core with DT having a year under him.

[Battle Cat]

I think though the front office should still use this as a cautionary tale of drafting a player that is already injured. Or that the doctors notice physical problems.

That being said I wish Kelly all the luck in the world and hope he comes back and produces.

[shally]

Agreed.

I wonder what is really going on in that knee. Just some stubborn inflammation or a bigger underlying issue that will never truly resolve? The medical staff probably has an idea.

I must say, when I looked at that college highlight reel of Kelly at Oklahoma, I couldnt help but get excited. I can see why the Skins took a chance on the guy.


very good point.. when i looked at that stuff, he just impressed the heck out me with how physical and athletic he looked.. easy to get excited about his potential

[shally]

per jasno...

zorn said no decision on kelly going on IR until after the bye week

they must really really want him to contribute this year...

[VegasSkinsFan]

Beat me to it.....i actually think it is a good decision. Kelly has probably pushed it too much. If he goes on IR after the bye, the FO should send him immediately to the knee doctor that rogers and/or rocky went to. Their comebacks have been amazing. I really hope that MK can contribute eventually, i, like you, got a good feeling when watching his college highlights. GO SKINS !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Redskin4Life]

Shally,

You being the resident doc around here... what do you think is going on with Kelly's knee? Do you think if he rests it for two to three weeks (no practice at all), in your professional opinion, you think he could be effective?

My feeling is that he's pushing it too hard right now and needs to get the swelling down before sending him out there.

It also could be a case of "since we don't have a need his roster spot yet, let's see if he can heal up and perform this year"...

[shally]

Shally,

You being the resident doc around here... what do you think is going on with Kelly's knee? Do you think if he rests it for two to three weeks (no practice at all), in your professional opinion, you think he could be effective?

My feeling is that he's pushing it too hard right now and needs to get the swelling down before sending him out there.

It also could be a case of "since we don't have a need his roster spot yet, let's see if he can heal up and perform this year"...

seen a few cases like this BUT the difference it wasnt usually in an elite athlete.. people who get this kind of work related problem get shut down and put on NSAIDS until it quiets down.. kelly is working on it all the time

they have done repeated MRI's so it is not likely another torn meniscus, but you always worry that it is an arthritic condition developing (like what happened to lavar).. maybe an inflamed lining of the joint (synovitis) ??

at some point you just have to shut the player down until it quiets down completely. i think that is what will happen after the bye because i see little reason to expect it will suddenly change in another couple of weeks..

frustrating for all concerned..but my sense is that they dont feel the situation is that bad or they would have already put him on IR..
still, if by the bye he isnt ready, on IR he goes..

[skinsfan36]

waiting until after the bye makes me think zorn really likes his potential. hes a big physical wideout and we need out of them. thomas is kind of physical but hes got a different skill set with speed at the top

[saratogan]

Zorn made the comment on comcast sportsnet that Kelly's knee has calmed down to the point he did not have to have it drained after practice. I am not a sports dr or trainer, but why was he out there pushing it each day to the point it was swelling and required draining, which raises the issues of possible long tern damage? That said, I got the sense from Zorn that Kelly is making steady progress. I am just guessing that the coaches still have a desire (a strong need) for him to be able to contribute in the second half of this season. Hopefully the bye week will further help him medically and we will finally get to see him on the field in the second half of the season.

Zorn also indicated that Thomas will get a chance on special teams on returns and that he is improving on his understaning of pass plays. He stated that Fred Davis is getting better each week. Fred Davis is going to be an awesome TE.

I want to thank each of the fans for their comments on this thread.

[Skins7ny]

There were 3 2nd-round WRs having big years: DeSean Jackson (Eagles) and Eddie Royal (Broncos). Now, it looks like there is a 3rd, Donnie Avery of the Rams.

Donnie Avery was the first WR taken. He will selected by Billy Devaney, a former top lieutenant of Bobby Beathard here with the Redskins, who was in his first draft as the Rams' decisionmaker. Devaney took a lot of criticism for that selection, given that Devin Thomas and/or Limas Sweed was at the top of most draft experts' WR boards. The choice of Avery ahead of all of the other WRs available was considered a strange choice, but it is looking like a very prescient one right now for Devaney.

Not saying that it is too late for either Kelly or Thomas to contribute, but it would be nice to see it already. Even so, I give both of them until the end of next year to show that they were worth being drafted where we got them. I think both of them have shown flashes of their ability to play in this league. For Thomas, it is a matter of being consistent and earning the coaches' trust. For Kelly, it is a matter of staying healthy and playing when less than 100%.

It is way too early to tell who made the right choices at WR in the second round. WR especially seems to be a position where players take time to develop and mature in the pro game. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out in the long run.

[BurgundyNGold]

http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=47299

[Biggie]

Honestly, no one can hope to grade the WR class from this year before the end of next season at the earliest. You just can't tell this early, although Thomas getting in is a good sign.

[Keino]

Sigh.

WRs typically do not show a ton of development in their 1st year. Royal, Jackson and Avery have all been thrust into their roles due to lack of talent at the position elsewhere on the team. Royal is the only one who looks like a stud BTW.

We have had the luxury of not needing immediate contribution from our rookies, though I would like to see Devin Thomas getting the 3rd WR reps over James Thrash.

Talk to me in 2011. If they are not contributing then, they are busts.

[redskin_rich]

I guess we can expect one of these threads every week some other rookie WR scores a TD...

[Redskinmayhem]

Sigh.

WRs typically do not show a ton of development in their 1st year. Royal, Jackson and Avery have all been thrust into their roles due to lack of talent at the position elsewhere on the team. Royal is the only one who looks like a stud BTW.

We have had the luxury of not needing immediate contribution from our rookies, though I would like to see Devin Thomas getting the 3rd WR reps over James Thrash.

Talk to me in 2011. If they are contributing then, they are busts.

agreed. The rule of thumb on WR's is they usually break out in their 3rd year, or they don't.

DT getting a few reps here and there is certainly a good sign. Look at the other Receivers on this team - Sant, ARE, Cooley, even Portis. All those guys need reps too.

Don't forget, JCamp is still developing as well. DT gets open alot but JCamp doesn't always see him. The more reps they get together, the more that will change. I see good things in DT's future. Kelly, on the other hand, I have no idea about. I think the guy should've been IR'd from the get go and let him get in shape and healthy. Essentially, he'd be a rookie next year.

[shally]

Thomas is getting closer.. i like the way he is showing effort on special teams as well

[BurgundyNGold]

I guess we can expect one of these threads every week some other rookie WR scores a TD...
Or, we can expect them to be posted to the existing rookier WR thread.

[Keino]

Or, we can expect them to be posted to the existing rookier WR thread.

Agreed and Merged.

[skinsfan36]

Thomas is getting closer.. i like the way he is showing effort on special teams as well

agreed and he seems very passionate out there always the 1st or 2nd to congratulate others on tds and big plays

[GoDannyBoy]

As long as we are winning I don't care, but it would be great if we could get him involved.

[saratogan]

After I posted a comment based upon Zorn's remarks on Kelly from an interview on the comcastsportsnet show, the day after that he indicated in an interview that Kelly's knee had again swelled. Zorn really likes the athleticism of Kelly and sees a lot of potential in him. Based upon Zorn's comments and reading between the lines, I think that is why Kelly has not been put on IR yet. The coaches and front office have hopes he can contribute in the second half. That said, I think the decision on Kelly's contributions this season or being placed IR will be made by the end of the by-week. Kelly has had only 1 official catch this season.

I agree with other commentors that it usually takes a couple of years for rookie receivers to develop, except for the exceptional ones who do contribute immediately (Lions and Bronco's WR's). It takes this amount time to determine if they will contribute significantly to a team. Still, while they are on the field, you can assess how well are they playing currently.

Currently, Davis is helping, but it is primarily in blocking. He has caught one pass for 6 yards. Thomas is still raw; struggling with running disciplined, smart pass routes. He caught one pass in the second drive of the opening quarter of the game against the Lions for nine yards. He certainly is showing desire and enthusiasm. So far, he has one run of 16 yards and caught 5 passes for about 50 yards.

For those who say, they are rookies and wait a year or more before you comment, I say: if they are on the field and playing, then comments are certainly warranted. I would also add, if they were a high draft pick and not playing, comments and concerns are certainly warranted.

There are distinct differences between comments about how well one is playing and evaluations of a player's contributions.

[skinsfan36]

springs was on the locker room tuesday and said kelly is special and when he gets on the field fans will love him. they alos said the d in practice hasnt covered davis since well he didnt come to practice lol. he also said he will be more well conditioned when he gets back because hes been riding a bike while out.

[BurgundyNGold]

springs was on the locker room tuesday and said kelly is special and when he gets on the field fans will love him. they alos said the d in practice hasnt covered davis since well he didnt come to practice lol. he also said he will be more well conditioned when he gets back because hes been riding a bike while out.
I get the impression that Springs is delusional most of the time. However, I hope he is right about Kelly. That would also explain a lot about why we haven't put the kid on IR yet.

[AliBabba]

I get the impression that Springs is delusional most of the time. However, I hope he is right about Kelly. That would also explain a lot about why we haven't put the kid on IR yet.
I am not taking Springles' word on it either. In fact I would prefer not to see him mentioned in the same breath as Springles again at least until this injury is behind him... kiss of death

That said, I have felt for awhile that if Kelly weren't very talented he would have been IR'd as well. We have guys on the practice squad who undoubtedly have had more time by now and are better prepared than he, but i'm sure his talent is what's kept him "active" this year. I really hope that the rest b/t now and Dallass is what he needs ...

[BurgundyNGold]

I am not taking Springles' word on it either. In fact I would prefer not to see him mentioned in the same breath as Springles again at least until this injury is behind him... kiss of death

That said, I have felt for awhile that if Kelly weren't very talented he would have been IR'd as well. We have guys on the practice squad who undoubtedly have had more time by now and are better prepared than he, but i'm sure his talent is what's kept him "active" this year. I really hope that the rest b/t now and Dallass is what he needs ...
Well, so far, this is Kelly's biggest claim to fame, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RiitZEHxA

[guess88]

Well, so far, this is Kelly's biggest claim to fame, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RiitZEHxA

LOL, hey, he's young and having some innocent fun, no problem with that. He's gotta be showing something real special for us to be this patient with him and holding him out of IR. Look forward to seeing him on the field for a breakout game... be in 08 or 09. :)

[AliBabba]

Well, so far, this is Kelly's biggest claim to fame, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RiitZEHxA
You bastard, lol

[Biggie]

Well, so far, this is Kelly's biggest claim to fame, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9RiitZEHxA
Oh dear God, please don't let him talk to B. Lloyd and start a music career.

[shally]

Oh dear God, please don't let him talk to B. Lloyd and start a music career.

LLoyd for the year..

15 catches.. 249 yards.....1 td......0 fumbles

not exactly world class...BUT
if he had produced like that he might still be a redskin and we wouldnt have used 2 second rounders on WR's

[skinsfan36]

the practice blog said davis made some great plays today and thomas caught a deep ball and campbell overthrew him on another zorn said "thomas is playing faster"

[shally]

the practice blog said davis made some great plays today and thomas caught a deep ball and campbell overthrew him on another zorn said "thomas is playing faster"

a lot of us keep saying each week "this is the week".. maybe this is the week ??

[skinsfan36]

a lot of us keep saying each week "this is the week".. maybe this is the week ??

i think it is with moss ailing

[BurgundyNGold]

Devin Thomas may have all of the physical tools but it just may be too soon for us to expect a lot out of the rookie. Honestly, I think that Kelly might ultimately be the better receiver. He has tremendous hands and body control. That is, if he can ever get on the field, lol.

Very few WRs have great first years. Of those, historically, they have had veteran WR mentors who have taken them under their wing early and shown them how to be a pro. Chris Carter did that for Randy Moss. Jerry Rice did that for Terrell Owens and, earlier this year, for Desean Jackson. I haven't heard of our WR corps specifically working with Thomas or Kelly, pushing them to get better. Generally speaking, why would they? So, I wouldn't expect Thomas to be at the same point as some of the other rookie WR at this point.

That said, this is the week for Thomas. If I were Zorn, knowing that Moss is ailing and has been sitting out all week, I would unveil Thomas as the "secret weapon" against Pittsburgh. It's set up that way and Thomas has gotten plenty of reps this week. I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

[SimplyZ]

Devin Thomas may have all of the physical tools but it just may be too soon for us to expect a lot out of the rookie. Honestly, I think that Kelly might ultimately be the better receiver. He has tremendous hands and body control. That is, if he can ever get on the field, lol.

Very few WRs have great first years. Of those, historically, they have had veteran WR mentors who have taken them under their wing early and shown them how to be a pro. Chris Carter did that for Randy Moss. Jerry Rice did that for Terrell Owens and, earlier this year, for Desean Jackson. I haven't heard of our WR corps specifically working with Thomas or Kelly, pushing them to get better. Generally speaking, why would they? So, I wouldn't expect Thomas to be at the same point as some of the other rookie WR at this point.

That said, this is the week for Thomas. If I were Zorn, knowing that Moss is ailing and has been sitting out all week, I would unveil Thomas as the "secret weapon" against Pittsburgh. It's set up that way and Thomas has gotten plenty of reps this week. I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

I think its up to Jason. he's shown that he'll make the right pass, but he has to trust Thomas.

The key this week might be Moss being out (WHICH I DONT WANT TO HAPPEN) but when hes the 3rd/4th wr he doesnt run the routes jason looks at. He'll go through his progressions and find cooley or Moss before he looks at Thomas.

I do think its a matter of time before hes open on a 15 yard route and makes us all happy

[shally]

Devin Thomas may have all of the physical tools but it just may be too soon for us to expect a lot out of the rookie. Honestly, I think that Kelly might ultimately be the better receiver. He has tremendous hands and body control. That is, if he can ever get on the field, lol.

Very few WRs have great first years. Of those, historically, they have had veteran WR mentors who have taken them under their wing early and shown them how to be a pro. Chris Carter did that for Randy Moss. Jerry Rice did that for Terrell Owens and, earlier this year, for Desean Jackson. I haven't heard of our WR corps specifically working with Thomas or Kelly, pushing them to get better. Generally speaking, why would they? So, I wouldn't expect Thomas to be at the same point as some of the other rookie WR at this point.

That said, this is the week for Thomas. If I were Zorn, knowing that Moss is ailing and has been sitting out all week, I would unveil Thomas as the "secret weapon" against Pittsburgh. It's set up that way and Thomas has gotten plenty of reps this week. I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

zorn kinda referenced that, but said that thomas plays on a lot of teams, so he could get worn down ?

[skinsfan36]

zorn kinda referenced that, but said that thomas plays on a lot of teams, so he could get worn down ?

hes not going to get worn out playing teams

[saviour]

I think its up to Jason. he's shown that he'll make the right pass, but he has to trust Thomas.



This I think is the major issue. I am not sure that Thomas has shown that he can be trusted with his route running. If the QB doesn't think that you are going to run the proper route he wont look your way.

DT's one catch in the Detroit game appeared that he ran the route too deep. Campbell clearly was looking his way when he raised his hand to throw the ball, which he had to double clutch and reload to get Thomas the ball. These are the type of things that cause your QB to throw int's or get sacked. Timing is everything in this type of WCO passing game.

[Meatsnack]

...

Very few WRs have great first years. Of those, historically, they have had veteran WR mentors who have taken them under their wing early and shown them how to be a pro. Chris Carter did that for Randy Moss. Jerry Rice did that for Terrell Owens and, earlier this year, for Desean Jackson. I haven't heard of our WR corps specifically working with Thomas or Kelly, pushing them to get better. Generally speaking, why would they? So, I wouldn't expect Thomas to be at the same point as some of the other rookie WR at this point.

...


Actually, Moss and to a lesser extent Randel El have both taken Kelly under their wings. I was able to find this from back in September: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091003440.html)
Campbell noticed. He has become one of Kelly's mentors (top wide receiver Santana Moss also counsels Kelly), offering daily encouragement and advice about life in the league.
...

Said Randle El: "The biggest thing with him is, he goes out and makes plays. The ball's up in the air, he goes up there and gets it."

Knowing he has the confidence of his teammates, and Campbell in particular, Kelly is ready to finally get started.

and also This (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/09/01/ST2008090103172.html):

The conversations occur during practice and in the privacy of the locker room. That's where Washington Redskins veteran wide receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El do their part to educate rookie wideouts Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly.

It has been a team effort, coaches and players said, and the process is going slowly.
"You pull 'em along and get 'em to understand that this is more of your life now. This is your livelihood," Randle El said. "It's not just going to class, waking up and then going to practice. This is all you have, and a lot of people are depending on you."

I think the issue with Thomas is that he finally learned to play Div. I college ball in 2007 and with Kelly he is brittle. Thomas wil catch on and hopefully Kelly will get healthy. Everyone seems to agree that Kelly is the real deal when he's on the field.

[shally]

LLoyd for the year..

15 catches.. 249 yards.....1 td......0 fumbles

not exactly world class...BUT
if he had produced like that he might still be a redskin and we wouldnt have used 2 second rounders on WR's

uhhhhh..

never mind... he has been out with a knee injury for 4 straight games..
not very much recent productivity..

[shally]

Actually, Moss and to a lesser extent Randel El have both taken Kelly under their wings. I was able to find this from back in September: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/10/AR2008091003440.html)


and also This (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/09/01/ST2008090103172.html):



I think the issue with Thomas is that he finally learned to play Div. I college ball in 2007 and with Kelly he is brittle. Thomas wil catch on and hopefully Kelly will get healthy. Everyone seems to agree that Kelly is the real deal when he's on the field.

kelly's highlights are pretty darn impressive..

[jaylen]

I'll base my thoughts on what Springs said about all the offensive rookies pass catchers about a week or so ago on the Doc Walker show.

He was asked about each and he said that kelly is the real deal that when he gets healthy he;'s gonna be a tremendous p[layer. He can ball.

He said they haven't been able to cover Fred Davis in practice yet he's that good .

he said Thomas was a tremendous athlete that needed to learn the position and that he would be a beast once he gets things down, reading between the lines he was basically not as high on Thomas for whatever reason maybe for the reason's Zorn has been listing.

But he was very effusive in praise for Kelly and Davis.

[shally]

I'll base my thoughts on what Springs said about all the offensive rookies pass catchers about a week or so ago on the Doc Walker show.

He was asked about each and he said that kelly is the real deal that when he gets healthy he;'s gonna be a tremendous p[layer. He can ball.

He said they haven't been able to cover Fred Davis in practice yet he's that good .

he said Thomas was a tremendous athlete that needed to learn the position and that he would be a beast once he gets things down, reading between the lines he was basically not as high on Thomas for whatever reason maybe for the reason's Zorn has been listing.

But he was very effusive in praise for Kelly and Davis.

all the sadder if kelly has a body that let's him down... kind of what happened to david boston (even it was possibly steroid tinged)

here's hoping that kelly can finally get healthy

[BurgundyNGold]

Devin Thomas looked the same as any other game. And, I don't think Fred Davis even saw the field.

The rookie receivers were worthless yesterday, which is pretty much par for the course so far this season.

[shally]

Devin Thomas looked the same as any other game. And, I don't think Fred Davis even saw the field.

The rookie receivers were worthless yesterday, which is pretty much par for the course so far this season.

thomas got three passes.. i was surprised when i saw that in the box scores..

yoder was so poor, i cannot see any reason why davis shouldnt be given the opportunity to step up

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Devin Thomas looked the same as any other game. And, I don't think Fred Davis even saw the field.

The rookie receivers were worthless yesterday, which is pretty much par for the course so far this season.

Yeah, pretty much.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

thomas got three passes.. i was surprised when i saw that in the box scores..

yoder was so poor, i cannot see any reason why davis shouldnt be given the opportunity to step up

Yoder's drop was big. If we are going to rely on five yard passes, you simply can't drop them. You have to play nearly flawless (no drops, no penalties, etc.) if you are going to move the ball that way.

[shally]

Yoder's drop was big. If we are going to rely on five yard passes, you simply can't drop them. You have to play nearly flawless (no drops, no penalties, etc.) if you are going to move the ball that way.

not just his drops, yoder's blocking was really poor most of the times i saw him.. if there is no edge in blocking, there is absolutely no reason for yoder to be in over davis

[BurgundyNGold]

Yoder's drop was big. If we are going to rely on five yard passes, you simply can't drop them. You have to play nearly flawless (no drops, no penalties, etc.) if you are going to move the ball that way.
That's the bigger story. We put ourselves into a hole with untimely (and sometimes phantom) penalties. And on Carlos' pass interference, both Monty and Carter were blatantly held and there was no call.

[Keino]

not just his drops, yoder's blocking was really poor most of the times i saw him.. if there is no edge in blocking, there is absolutely no reason for yoder to be in over davis

Yea. This is especially frustrating for me. Davis is pretty explosive and it seems to me last night was perfectly suited for him. Coverage was shaded toward Cooley with Moss ailing and it seems to me Davis should've had a HUGE night.

[JsMaViSd]

Yea. This is especially frustrating for me. Davis is pretty explosive and it seems to me last night was perfectly suited for him. Coverage was shaded toward Cooley with Moss ailing and it seems to me Davis should've had a HUGE night.

my thoughts also.

[BurgundyNGold]

Yea. This is especially frustrating for me. Davis is pretty explosive and it seems to me last night was perfectly suited for him. Coverage was shaded toward Cooley with Moss ailing and it seems to me Davis should've had a HUGE night.
Furthermore, if you're not going to throw to Devin Thomas (before the game is effectively over, that is) why even play him at all? I like the guy a lot, but can't wait until James Thrash is no longer on this team. His being on the field is retarding Thomas' development at this point.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Furthermore, if you're not going to throw to Devin Thomas (before the game is effectively over, that is) why even play him at all? I like the guy a lot, but can't wait until James Thrash is no longer on this team. His being on the field is retarding Thomas' development at this point.

Thomas looked lost on the one deep ball though. I can't fathom why we didn't take more chances on simple go routes when we knew we had man coverage. We must have had man coverage often since they put 17 guys in the box.

[JasonCampbell]

I haven't seen improvement from Thomas at all. The dude looks lost out there. If I can see that, I wonder how JC feels throwing him the ball.

It is a shame Kelly has been hurt. He looked much better than Thomas in TC and probably could have contributed like other rookie WRs around the league.

Has Zorn said why Davis isn't playing. Seems like every blog I read (especially Matt Terl) praises the kid for solid practices.

[Keino]

Furthermore, if you're not going to throw to Devin Thomas (before the game is effectively over, that is) why even play him at all? I like the guy a lot, but can't wait until James Thrash is no longer on this team. His being on the field is retarding Thomas' development at this point.

You know I agree with this completely. I like Thrash, he is a good guy, a hard worker and I can see him on the team just because of that fact (Nothing like an example of Work ethic when you have young talented rooks), but he should not be the 3rd WR based on command of the offense. We need to play our most talented guys and live with their mistakes, while putting them in positions to be successful, allowing them to make plays and thereby increasing their confidence. If I am frustrated by anything about Zorn it is this point. Yoder and Thrash should only be on the field at this point to spell Davis and Thomas.

Use the bye week to get these guys more involved in the gameplan.

[GenMgr]

I predict that Thomas will be cut after the season and the FO will trade Betts with another player to acquire a big name veteran WR

[JasonCampbell]

I predict that Thomas will be cut after the season and the FO will trade Betts with another player to acquire a big name veteran WR

I predict and that your prediction will be wrong.

[GenMgr]

The only reason DT hasn't been cut already is because he was a high 2nd round draft pick. The FO is still smarting from the PR hit it took when they cut Brooks,

[Keino]

The only reason DT hasn't been cut already is because he was a high 2nd round draft pick. The FO is still smarting from the PR hit it took when they cut Brooks,

This is preposterous. Please go away.

[shally]

The only reason DT hasn't been cut already is because he was a high 2nd round draft pick. The FO is still smarting from the PR hit it took when they cut Brooks,

that is simply beyond foolish.. it is well known that the learning curve for receivers is pretty steep. DT will be fine

[Battle Cat]

I agree that Thomas and Davis should be more involved in the offense. I am a little worried however that we are starting to lean a little too much to the traditional west coast offense. In this game and more as the season goes along we are not trying less and less shots down field imo. I think the Green Bay and Philly style of west coast tends to take more shots down the field and we seem to be going in the other direction.

[colkurtz]

I was surprised that the long pass to Thomas, he hadn't beaten the DB by even half a step.

[GenMgr]

This is preposterous. Please go away.

Not really if you listen to all the comments referring to DT from his peers and coaches. Yesterday, on Doc Walker's show, Frank Hanrahan (sp) noted that Zorn is frustrated with DT's inability to process in real-time what is going on at the line of scrimmage, and that he is not mentally capable of absorbing the playbook. At this point, Doc was enraged and asked who drafted him. Listen..all the responses are the same..."he's coming along slowly"..."He must understand special-teams play"..etc. It's kind of reminiscent of when Gibbs used to say "We use Lloyd and Archuletta in certain packages" No one wants to dispel the truth that this was a big draft blunder.

[Keino]

Not really if you listen to all the comments referring to DT from his peers and coaches. Yesterday, on Doc Walker's show, Frank Hanrahan (sp) noted that Zorn is frustrated with DT's inability to process in real-time what is going on at the line of scrimmage, and that he is not mentally capable of absorbing the playbook. At this point, Doc was enraged and asked who drafted him. Listen..all the responses are the same..."he's coming along slowly"..."He must understand special-teams play"..etc. It's kind of reminiscent of when Gibbs used to say "We use Lloyd and Archuletta in certain packages" No one wants to dispel the truth that this was a big draft blunder.

No team gives up on a Rookie WR after his first year. It simply does not happen. Regardless of what is being discussed on 980, there is no precedent (or reason frankly) to cut him.

[BurgundyNGold]

No team gives up on a Rookie WR after his first year. It simply does not happen. Regardless of what is being discussed on 980, there is no precedent (or reason frankly) to cut him.
Honestly, at this point, we stand to lose nothing by putting him back to receive punts, at least.

[GenMgr]

Honestly, at this point, we stand to lose nothing by putting him back to receive punts, at least.

Agree, but the staff doesn't even have enough confidence to do that. He ran back punts in college. What does that say?

[Keino]

Agree, but the staff doesn't even have enough confidence to do that. He ran back punts in college. What does that say?

He didn't run punts in College, he ran Kickoffs. But other than that you are exactly correct.....

[NCskinsfanatic]

I think the staff new DT would take time he hardly learned the position in his short stint in the NCAA and they probably though Davis and Kelly would be contributing more than they have to this point. They'll be more involved/important in this O after an offseason if they can just stay healthy and hit the books and partake in film study.

[GenMgr]

I think the staff new DT would take time he hardly learned the position in his short stint in the NCAA and they probably though Davis and Kelly would be contributing more than they have to this point. They'll be more involved/important in this O after an offseason if they can just stay healthy and hit the books and partake in film study.

If Thomas was to be the long-term project, then why would they select him first over Kelly who they personally went to see during their scouting trip, and want to make an immediate impact after the bye week. I think it was the other way around and they wanted DT to work like Moss, but Kelly was more competent in Training Camp.

[Keino]

If Thomas was to be the long-term project, then why would they select him first over Kelly who they personally went to see during their scouting trip, and want to make an immediate impact after the bye week. I think it was the other way around and they wanted DT to work like Moss, but Kelly was more competent in Training Camp.

Because drafting is as much about perceived value as it is about addressing needs. If you know that other teams value one player less than the other and you want to pick both of them, you take the one who won't be there for your second swipe at the apple tree first.

Your argument is ridiculous. Kelly has contributed even less than Thomas has, and it has nothing to do with Draft Positioning. Both players were projects, which is why they slipped to the 2nd round.

[NCskinsfanatic]

If Thomas was to be the long-term project, then why would they select him first over Kelly who they personally went to see during their scouting trip, and want to make an immediate impact after the bye week. I think it was the other way around and they wanted DT to work like Moss, but Kelly was more competent in Training Camp.

Nah, It was widely publicized that DT was rough around the edges and needed a lot of work after only playing one year of college ball. Kelly also slid due to concerns over his knees, I dont think they expected Kelly to still be there with their 3rd 2nd rounder and when he was they scooped him up.

[skinsfan36]

ok thomas played one year of college and is raw! he is struggling but you give wrs more then a year.
i expected him to be like he is and have some flashes,and expected kelly to make immediate impact (he has to the trainers office).davis i know has talent but is stuck behind yoder,always will be behind cooley.
you dont cut projects in year one. this guy does get open,and hes struggling with the playbook. but if 50/50 can learn an offense dt will be able to

[GenMgr]

I think the FO made a major gaffe by placing all their eggs in one basket [Kelly] hoping that he would be able to contribute after the bye week. They should have kept one more "deep threat" receiver. If they had one more do-over, they would have kept one more receiver and possibly cut maybe Rob Jackson or someone less significant,

[BurgundyNGold]

ok thomas played one year of college and is raw! he is struggling but you give wrs more then a year.
i expected him to be like he is and have some flashes,and expected kelly to make immediate impact (he has to the trainers office).davis i know has talent but is stuck behind yoder,always will be behind cooley.
you dont cut projects in year one. this guy does get open,and hes struggling with the playbook. but if 50/50 can learn an offense dt will be able to
50/50 had the talent and the football acumen to learn how to play WR in the NFL. In his rookie season, he had 46 receptions for 741 yards and 4 TDs. Even Michael Westbrook had 34 receptions for 522 yards and 1 TD as a rookie. Both looked like a stars in the making. Unfortunately, they were both mental midgets.

At this point, if I had to compare him to another rookie Redskin WR, I'm more inclined to liken Devin Thomas to Desmond Howard. Howard, another high profile pick with "all the physical tools" finished his rookie season with 3 receptions for 20 yards. Since he was playing behind Monk, Clark and Sanders, this is to be expected, but frustration mounted with Redskin coaches because he couldn't seem to learn the nuances of the position. In the end and despite his physical gifts, Howard just couldn't adjust to WR at the NFL level.

I haven't given up on Thomas -- and I think he can be a big deal in this league -- but, for whatever reason, I can't help but think a little bit about Desmond Howard when I see him.

[Redskin4Life]

Sorry but I'm not buying all of this "D. Thomas is garbage" crap I'm reading in this thread. My thought is this:

Thomas was drafted, along with Kelly and Davis, to be added threats and to help contribute from this year forward.

The haters are saying that this statement is reason to think that the FO screwed up and need to check themselves about their drafting ability. To say these guys are busts is ridiculous.... it's too early.

The supporters are saying that these guys should be given the benefit of the doubt cause it takes time to learn the position. This is just as ridiculous cause they all should have been contributing more at this point due to the fact that they are all 2nd rounders... they have the ability and talent to be able to step it up by the halfway point.

How could my contradictory comments be both true? Well lets not forget that we've got three pass catchers that are above them at this point in Cooley, Randle El and Moss. These three have been considered the starters from Day 1 and the coaching staff left no questions about that. But at this point in the season, Devin and Malcolm should be over Thrash and should be in helping the team as #3/#4 not #4/#5 WRs. And Davis should be the #2 TE for sure.

Now I know in Davis' case, the coaching staff is to blame cause from what I've seen of Davis and Yoder... there's no reason Davis isn't the No. 2 TE. And in Kelly's case, it just seem to be a bit of bad luck with the injury bug. But Devin, come on man, you're in practice and healthy enough to play. If you need help, get it. Stop being "too good" to get pointers. Spend more time in the film room and in the play book. Ask Campbell or Thrash or Moss or ARE to stay after practice with you to work on routes. Ask the WRs coach for help. I'm not saying that he's a bust but he needs to step it up and work on what needs to be done to get noticed by Campbell and the coaching staff. Thrash really needs to be the "wily vet who comes off the bench for a game or two after a couple of injuries to the WR corp" and not the #3 WR.

[shally]

50/50 had the talent and the football acumen to learn how to play WR in the NFL. In his rookie season, he had 46 receptions for 741 yards and 4 TDs. Even Michael Westbrook had 34 receptions for 522 yards and 1 TD as a rookie. Both looked like a stars in the making. Unfortunately, they were both mental midgets.

At this point, if I had to compare him to another rookie Redskin WR, I'm more inclined to liken Devin Thomas to Desmond Howard. Howard, another high profile pick with "all the physical tools" finished his rookie season with 3 receptions for 20 yards. Since he was playing behind Monk, Clark and Sanders, this is to be expected, but frustration mounted with Redskin coaches because he couldn't seem to learn the nuances of the position. In the end and despite his physical gifts, Howard just couldn't adjust to WR at the NFL level.

I haven't given up on Thomas -- and I think he can be a big deal in this league -- but, for whatever reason, I can't help but think a little bit about Desmond Howard when I see him.

i think that the comparison ends when you look at the physical stature of howard and thomas... howard was too small to be a day in and day out receiver at the nfl level. he had quickness and was decent for the college game

thomas has fine size and more than enough speed

his problem is adapting to the mental challenges of the pro game. once he "gets it" and stops running the wrong routes he will be very productive.
my guess would be he would follow a similar trajectory as the giants steve smith where he begins to come into his own at the end of this year and by next year is a solid and dependable receiver...

[BurgundyNGold]

i think that the comparison ends when you look at the physical stature of howard and thomas... howard was too small to be a day in and day out receiver at the nfl level. he had quickness and was decent for the college game

thomas has fine size and more than enough speed

his problem is adapting to the mental challenges of the pro game. once he "gets it" and stops running the wrong routes he will be very productive.
my guess would be he would follow a similar trajectory as the giants steve smith where he begins to come into his own at the end of this year and by next year is a solid and dependable receiver...
In 1992, Howard wasn't too small to play WR in the NFL, as he was no smaller than Clark or Sanders who were both successful.

The comparison really relates in my mind to the fact that both Howard and Thomas have the physical skills to succeed in the NFL as their respective times; however, each has frustrated the coaching staff with their apparent inability to catch on to the nuances of playing WR in the NFL.

The good news for Thomas is that he can still turn this around. He has the physical gifts. The only question is whether he can consume and leverage the mental part. That's the wild card. Physical ability means nothing if he doesn't get the mental part down. The last thing I want to see is another physically talented Redskin receiver about whom we hear every year in camp how the guy has worked hard and is poised to break out... but never does.

[JsMaViSd]

In 1992, Howard wasn't too small to play WR in the NFL, as he was no smaller than Clark or Sanders who were both successful.

The comparison really relates in my mind to the fact that both Howard and Thomas have the physical skills to succeed in the NFL as their respective times; however, each has frustrated the coaching staff with their apparent inability to catch on to the nuances of playing WR in the NFL.

The good news for Thomas is that he can still turn this around. He has the physical gifts. The only question is whether he can consume and leverage the mental part. That's the wild card. Physical ability means nothing if he doesn't get the mental part down. The last thing I want to see is another physically talented Redskin receiver about whom we hear every year in camp how the guy has worked hard and is poised to break out... but never does.


amen

[Battle Cat]

Just read Fox's top 25 offensive rookies so far. Suprise none of our rookies made the list and we went offense with our first 3 picks.

[shally]

Just read Fox's top 25 offensive rookies so far. Suprise none of our rookies made the list and we went offense with our first 3 picks.

you have to actually play them, and incorporate them into the offense for them to get stats and recognition...

that said, i think if we were 3-6 we would be seeing a whole lot more of all the rookies..