Zorns presser...

[NCskinsfanatic]

It starts at 12:25...

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins_com_LIVE_Press_Conference_19488.jsp

[shally]

It starts at 12:25...

http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Redskins_com_LIVE_Press_Conference_19488.jsp

we will see how subdued he is... this one will be tough

[NCskinsfanatic]

we will see how subdued he is... this one will be tough

It'll be interesting to see how he thinks we can get more outta the pass pro and what our RB situation will look like going forward.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Zorn takes deep sigh...looks tired.

Explaining that teams fail when the qb gets hit, losing one on one OL matchups, same for DL didnt win one on one's...

[NCskinsfanatic]

OL problems are magnified by a loss the next day...

Technique is lacking by OL, Buges said guys were ducking their heads on plays last night

Ol has to play perfect technique, every play to be successful against good pass rushes

[NCskinsfanatic]

Zorn says its a combination of things, OL technique, guys getting jammed on the line, throwing timing off on routes, need to play faster...

Asked about technique for 5 guys in their 30's...Zorn says we're not countering the DL's second moves, its a constant sparring session, QB pressures are gonna happen, we cant miss plays when the OL does give JC time...we missed Santana deep at the 9, execution was there, missing on a handful of plays every game

[NCskinsfanatic]

Said he thought JC played well, he had guys pushed back into him and even though they were blocked it forces him to speed up his play, did good job focusing on ball security

[NCskinsfanatic]

asked about changing OL personel, doesnt think so but isnt sure just yet...he likes the battle he's seeing, the effort... just guys have to do better in one on one matchups.

[shally]

asked about changing OL personel, doesnt think so but isnt sure just yet...he likes the battle he's seeing, the effort... just guys have to do better in one on one matchups.


that does NOT make me feel better.. willing it to happen is wishfull

[shally]

Said he thought JC played well, he had guys pushed back into him and even though they were blocked it forces him to speed up his play, did good job focusing on ball security

on THAT i totally agree

[NCskinsfanatic]

addressed dropped pass on 3rd down ...Zorn agreed with what i said earlier the ball was throw low and into the ground...not Devins fault. Hes still learning, needs to run routes better, was wide open deep we didnt get to him, said it wasnt just on the OL...I guess he means JC didnt see him or trust him on that one.

[NCskinsfanatic]

that does NOT make me feel better.. willing it to happen is wishfull

on THAT i totally agree

agreed...

[NCskinsfanatic]

talking about Betts and CP...CP started to wear down after starting good, Ladell got re-injured on a screen. CP is better starting this week than he was last monday, will practice later this week. Betts should be back as well, just dinged. El should be back, MW out for awhile, more than a week. JT did fine, starting to come on a little more but he still cant go full speed.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Montgomery doubtful, dont want him to rupture his achilles...no mention of that bum Springles

[NCskinsfanatic]

Not gonna use JT standing up at OLB with MW out...just said no, no when asked. Secondary played well, missed a few tackles but Cowboys made a couple of great plays against good coverage...

[Chief Seeway]

So he didn't mention or no one asked about the inability to score points?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

just a suggestion, NCskinsfan, could you please update one post with new info instead of creating a new post every couple of minutes? It would be easier to read. Thanks.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Disappointed in lack of pass rush but encouraged by the D's ability to keep Dallas to 14 despite it. Schemes were good needed more than rushing front 4 at times but you have to pick your times to not give up big plays against teams like dallas with so many weapons.

[NCskinsfanatic]

just a suggestion, NCskinsfan, could you please update one post with new info instead of creating a new post every couple of minutes? It would be easier to read. Thanks.

Cool...sorry lol.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Ok consolidated posts lol...

asked about this snowballing out of control. Have to change a handful of problems, we're treading water rather than snowballing downhill. We are to even steven, does not believe we are waning at all.

Asked about lack of complete game in last 5 games...Zorn agrees, cant keep treading water.

Not worried teams have them figured out, only went 3 and out a couple of times, not maintaining composure, getting JC in rythm, have to block in run and pass consistently...correctable

Asked about Seattle game...not getting caught up in going back, just getting them prepared for a good D, Hasselbach can beat ya

Didnt get much sleep,over analyzed every play that we missed, looking up in bed staring at the ceiling.

Matts experience runningthe O is big, he takes command of the line of scrimmage, very verbal, able to audible get team in right play. Wallace has more run ability but Matt controls the los.

Asked about Davis, he isnt doing all the assignments correctly, not ability or speed factor, but cant put a guy in there that can play fast but not in the right direction or fails to go out. Cant afford it to happen at all then trust him...

As for Rocks downing the ball on the 1...rock reacted to ball moving when infact the ball was pretty much dead, wanted to touch it down, but he didnt need to, worried about dallas player picking ball up...Zorn said he didnt need to, no one should have touched it.


Challenged it b/c he thought he touched it down before rolling into the endzone, refs say he was still touching while rolling into the goal line.

Wants to get JC to the point where Matt is at the los, JC is starting to make those plays and did so last night, JC is doing what hes being prepared to do. Some guys freeze but JC is making good calls, happy with progress wishes we could do it fastewr. Matt has a 6 year advantage but JC is progressing

the end...

[NCskinsfanatic]

So he didn't mention or no one asked about the inability to score points?

not in so many words, mentioned not many 3 and outs, offense lacked blocking consistency, caused drives to stall

[esmith1790]

Any one call him out about his time management and TOs?

here in dallas they talked about the key plays and if you know its going for 4th down territory, why not have 2 plays called or some thought process. So you dont get it on 3rd down, then gota burn a time out to think what you gona do next.(i thought there was a penalty on DT in that sitation that changed the yardage)

So there are 2 scenarios right, if we make the 1st then cool, if we dont, then we are gona call play SO and SO on 4th down. I guess being the HC, OC and QB coach all in 1 doesnt allow that type of thinking in real time.

[shally]

Any one call him out about his time management and TOs?

here in dallas they talked about the key plays and if you know its going for 4th down territory, why not have 2 plays called or some thought process. So you dont get it on 3rd down, then gota burn a time out to think what you gona do next.(i thought there was a penalty on DT in that sitation that changed the yardage)

So there are 2 scenarios right, if we make the 1st then cool, if we dont, then we are gona call play SO and SO on 4th down. I guess being the HC, OC and QB coach all in 1 doesnt allow that type of thinking in real time.

part of zorn's learning curve, i think

[Meatsnack]

I am surprised that nothing was made of the absence of Montgomery and the resurgence of Marion Barber. When we couldn't stop Dallass late in the 4th when they gave the ball to Barber every damned play, the lack of our only real 2-gap tackle was much on my mind.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I am surprised that nothing was made of the absence of Montgomery and the resurgence of Marion Barber. When we couldn't stop Dallass late in the 4th when they gave the ball to Barber every damned play, the lack of our only real 2-gap tackle was much on my mind.

Me too. We definitely missed Montgomery. Also, the rotation of the three guys helps to keep them fresh. All I know is I saw #64 getting pushed around in there in the fourth.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Me too. We definitely missed Montgomery. Also, the rotation of the three guys helps to keep them fresh. All I know is I saw #64 getting pushed around in there in the fourth.

He's not expected to play this week either...

[JsMaViSd]

He's not expected to play this week either...

Zorn said he was 50/50?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

He's not expected to play this week either...

Great. Someone call csquared, before he gets to Walmart.

[Lavar703]

I dont understand Zorn holding out Davis and Kelly because there behind in the playbook, seriously, who the hell cant run a 5 yard out? His playbook consists of Screen right, Screen left and then a 2 yard pass. Im going to pull my hair out if Thrash is in there again next week. Hes completely ineffective and strikes fear in no one, Randle El strikes for in no one for that matter. I want to see Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley out there all together somehow. How do we have so much talent sitting on the bench? Please get rid of Springs now, he has no desire to play anymore.

[VegasSkinsFan]

I dont understand Zorn holding out Davis and Kelly because there behind in the playbook, seriously, who the hell cant run a 5 yard out? His playbook consists of Screen right, Screen left and then a 2 yard pass. Im going to pull my hair out if Thrash is in there again next week. Hes completely ineffective and strikes fear in no one, Randle El strikes for in no one for that matter. I want to see Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley out there all together somehow. How do we have so much talent sitting on the bench? Please get rid of Springs now, he has no desire to play anymore.

Yeah no kidding...between a 5 yd out and sending DT deep and straight..at least it will clear out a defender. Also, blaches blitzes dont seem to be coming close. I hope we get things turned around. GO SKINS !!!

[guess88]

I dont understand Zorn holding out Davis and Kelly because there behind in the playbook, seriously, who the hell cant run a 5 yard out? His playbook consists of Screen right, Screen left and then a 2 yard pass. Im going to pull my hair out if Thrash is in there again next week. Hes completely ineffective and strikes fear in no one, Randle El strikes for in no one for that matter. I want to see Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley out there all together somehow. How do we have so much talent sitting on the bench? Please get rid of Springs now, he has no desire to play anymore.

I think the reason we see so many screens and dump offs are because of the pressure JC is facing. I don't believe they're his first read, but if you noticed last night, he was getting hit on just about every pass play. You're going to need a few more seconds to get receivers deeper in their routes, but that's not going to happen unless the Oline does their job.

I think Zorn's still holding out Kelly out of worry about his knee and probably conditioning, but Davis is someone I expected to see at least in some redzone packages or 3rd & shorts. Then again, we might be keeping Yoder in to block, as the Oline seem to be having trouble keeping their blocks.

[Lavar703]

I think the reason we see so many screens and dump offs are because of the pressure JC is facing. I don't believe they're his first read, but if you noticed last night, he was getting hit on just about every pass play. You're going to need a few more seconds to get receivers deeper in their routes, but that's not going to happen unless the Oline does their job.

I think Zorn's still holding out Kelly out of worry about his knee and probably conditioning, but Davis is someone I expected to see at least in some redzone packages or 3rd & shorts. Then again, we might be keeping Yoder in to block, as the Oline seem to be having trouble keeping their blocks.

I understand that but at the same time we ran screen passes that were clearly called as such. The pass to Moss that Newman blew up immediately and the same exact pass to Devin Thomas. The problem with these past two games is that we have given up on the run game after the first half.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Zorn said he was 50/50?

He was last week too though and Zorn also added after the 50/50 that they didnt want to risk him rupturing the achilles because he's such a heavy dude.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I understand that but at the same time we ran screen passes that were clearly called as such. The pass to Moss that Newman blew up immediately and the same exact pass to Devin Thomas. The problem with these past two games is that we have given up on the run game after the first half.

If your OL is getting man handled thats the only thing you have, Dallas was aggressive so they were trying to catch them sleeping. Plus the pass pro did not allow things to develop downfield, we had the same problem against the Rams and their one CB. Some of it is the WR's not getting off the line, some of it is pass pro and some of it is JC being hesitant. But all of it is compounded when we cant run and CP tired quickly, Betts injured himself, and what we were left with after that is, well...let's just say that's exactly the reason I was ranting all week that we'd lose. This O is not explosive enough to beat anyone if not healthy, Portis, Moss and Samuels at less than 85% is gonna equal a L everytime this season.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I dont understand Zorn holding out Davis and Kelly because there behind in the playbook, seriously, who the hell cant run a 5 yard out? His playbook consists of Screen right, Screen left and then a 2 yard pass. Im going to pull my hair out if Thrash is in there again next week. Hes completely ineffective and strikes fear in no one, Randle El strikes for in no one for that matter. I want to see Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley out there all together somehow. How do we have so much talent sitting on the bench? Please get rid of Springs now, he has no desire to play anymore.


He alluded to that also, he said for JC and him to trust them they have to show that they know their assignments in practice. Evidentally its not just the route but adjusting to audibles, not forgetting to stay in and block or go out after the adjustment, running the route to the wrong side, or in the wrong direction, etc. He has a point all those things would possibly lead to turnovers or worse get JC creamed if they should have stayed in and didnt. Weve already seen Moore do it on D in the Rams game and we went out and got Green and he's played very sparingly since.

[jtovb2005]

I dont understand Zorn holding out Davis and Kelly because there behind in the playbook, seriously, who the hell cant run a 5 yard out? His playbook consists of Screen right, Screen left and then a 2 yard pass. Im going to pull my hair out if Thrash is in there again next week. Hes completely ineffective and strikes fear in no one, Randle El strikes for in no one for that matter. I want to see Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley out there all together somehow. How do we have so much talent sitting on the bench? Please get rid of Springs now, he has no desire to play anymore.


I can never understand this logic too much either. It all come down to run, pass, catch, block, tackle. They all have been doing it for years. Going back a few seasons we seem to sit guys until they are "adults" or something. Now these guys could just really not be ready to play. That indicates a failure of drafting I would think?

[Lavar703]

He alluded to that also, he said for JC and him to trust them they have to show that they know their assignments in practice. Evidentally its not just the route but adjusting to audibles, not forgetting to stay in and block or go out after the adjustment, running the route to the wrong side, or in the wrong direction, etc. He has a point all those things would possibly lead to turnovers or worse get JC creamed if they should have stayed in and didnt. Weve already seen Moore do it on D in the Rams game and we went out and got Green and he's played very sparingly since.

Well Campbell is getting killed right now and there seems to be no help in sight. What is it going to hurt to get them involved in the game plan? I dont care about excuses anymore, this is Rocky Mcintosh all over again. We hold guys out and then when they finally play they look great but its far too late. As of right now, Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly are wasted draft picks and the bad thing is Davis hasnt even been injured.

[skinsfan36]

addressed dropped pass on 3rd down ...Zorn agreed with what i said earlier the ball was throw low and into the ground...not Devins fault. Hes still learning, needs to run routes better, was wide open deep we didnt get to him, said it wasnt just on the OL...I guess he means JC didnt see him or trust him on that one.

happens all the time. campbell is scared or doesnt trust him. well whatever im way off the jc bandwagon after these last few weeks(needed a whole season to be on it)

[give_portis_the_rock]

happens all the time. campbell is scared or doesnt trust him. well whatever im way off the jc bandwagon after these last few weeks(needed a whole season to be on it)

Let me ask you something: last week against Pittburgh, between Jason and Big Ben, who played better? Last night, between him and Romo, who played better? Jason is outplaying supposedly "elite" QBs in spite of the non existent pass protection the past two weeks. And here's my favorite JC statistic: sacked 10 times the past two games, NO fumbles. Sack Romo twice in a game and he'll fumble at least once. This isnt about flashy stats. This is about playing as good as possible and not hurting your team. If you watched last night's game, I dont see how you could pin that loss on Jason. And don't bring up one throw here or there that was off or a couple open wideouts he missed. Because no one is saying Jason is perfect. But facing unprecedented amount of pass rush, I was impressed that he was able to hit his check downs (sometimes even better, he threw a couple darts 15-20 yards downfield for first downs) and protect the ball.

[guess88]

If your OL is getting man handled thats the only thing you have, Dallas was aggressive so they were trying to catch them sleeping. Plus the pass pro did not allow things to develop downfield, we had the same problem against the Rams and their one CB.

Maybe the Rams exposed our weakness when faced with an overwhelming pass rush? Teams will keep copying it till we can prove otherwise.

[BurgundyNGold]

Maybe the Rams exposed our weakness when faced with an overwhelming pass rush? Teams will keep copying it till we can prove otherwise.
Yeah, but the WCO is designed to negate a heavy pass rush. The 49ers teams of the 80s were among the few to have limited success against the 46 defense of the mid-80s Bears. More 3 and 5 step drops will help. Overloading zones with 3 and 4 receivers on short-medium routes also helps.

[AliBabba]

Yeah, but the WCO is designed to negate a heavy pass rush. The 49ers teams of the 80s were among the few to have limited success against the 46 defense of the mid-80s Bears. More 3 and 5 step drops will help. Overloading zones with 3 and 4 receivers on short-medium routes also helps.

LMAO, 4 receivers!! We got Moss, the slow guy who can't really return punts, that old guy that really can't return punts, a rookie who's averaging a whopping 7.0 ypc (while easily averaging 15 per penalty) and the man, the myth Malcolm Kelly.

I remember thinking at one point this year how dangerous we could be with all our offensive weapons. I have no idea what roster I was looking at though.

[hail2skins]

I dont understand Zorn holding out Davis and Kelly because there behind in the playbook, seriously, who the hell cant run a 5 yard out? His playbook consists of Screen right, Screen left and then a 2 yard pass. Im going to pull my hair out if Thrash is in there again next week. Hes completely ineffective and strikes fear in no one, Randle El strikes for in no one for that matter. I want to see Moss, Thomas, Kelly, Davis and Cooley out there all together somehow. How do we have so much talent sitting on the bench? Please get rid of Springs now, he has no desire to play anymore.Davis was active and played. Kelly being inactive was the result of the numbers game.

[shally]

Davis was active and played. Kelly being inactive was the result of the numbers game.

jasno had comments about davis in his insiders blog.. if zorn doesnt trust a player to run every route and every play correctly, he wont see the field.
it is that simple with davis

[hail2skins]

Any one call him out about his time management and TOs?

here in dallas they talked about the key plays and if you know its going for 4th down territory, why not have 2 plays called or some thought process. So you dont get it on 3rd down, then gota burn a time out to think what you gona do next.(i thought there was a penalty on DT in that sitation that changed the yardage)

So there are 2 scenarios right, if we make the 1st then cool, if we dont, then we are gona call play SO and SO on 4th down. I guess being the HC, OC and QB coach all in 1 doesnt allow that type of thinking in real time.The 4th down play was on Campbell in my opinion. He was looking for Moss but Moss was covered. Jason also had to move in the pocket. He had room to the left had he kept running but he tried to get back to Moss and that was a bad decision.

As for one of the clock issues, a lot of people thought it was Devin's fault when it wasn't. It was to be a set with no backs, Betts saw Portis come out and he went in but he wasn't supposed to be there. They barely got the play off.

Another one of the timeouts was a result of the receiver Zorn uses not working. That's a problem because they had it for a couple of games now and that shouldn't be happening. He's really pissed about that.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Maybe the Rams exposed our weakness when faced with an overwhelming pass rush? Teams will keep copying it till we can prove otherwise.

Thing is the rams dont have one lol...we have to win upfront and we need more production at WR than just Moss, if it wasnt such a problem then we'd have never drafted Kelly, Thomas and Fred to begin with. Moss alone is not enough and without a passing game, this late in the season, CP is gonna find it hard to run imo. Which brings us back to needing better pass pro...

I think it'll take an offseason of work before Kelly, Thomas and Davis begin to really pay dividends. Zorn and JC dont really trust them and there are reasons why that we dont see each week in practice. Thrash is not a WR anymore, he's a special teamer only. Are is perfect for the 3rd/slot wr role but is forced to play outside due to Kelly's injury and DT's inexperience. We could use a vet WR to put outside, I think Zorn thought Thrash could be that guy initially but found out he lacked seperation...much like McMullen.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Well Campbell is getting killed right now and there seems to be no help in sight. What is it going to hurt to get them involved in the game plan? I dont care about excuses anymore, this is Rocky Mcintosh all over again. We hold guys out and then when they finally play they look great but its far too late. As of right now, Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly are wasted draft picks and the bad thing is Davis hasnt even been injured.

Rookie WR's take the longest to develop and yes Im aware Jackson and Royal are doing well this year. But who are our guys suppose to turn to to learn the ins and outs of the O as mentors? Our veterans(Moss and ARE) are still learning it too as is JC. The Eagles and Broncos have been running the same system for forever now. Good teams have continuity, that comes with time and realistically we havent even been together in this O for a full season. I know no one wants to here that but it's true... JC will be a better QB next year, the rookies will have learned this O and be playing at NFL speed. Until then we'll have to hope the OL has a resurgence and JC, Moss and Portis make some impossible plays from game to game.

The reason the rookies havent been thrown to the wolves imo is because we want to win and want them to suceed long term. Zorn is putting the guys that have earned it in practice on the field. Yes we could use some help but we can ill afford to give up turnovers over miscommunication and make our pass pro worse by not knowing who or when to block. It's probably half a dozen on one hand and 6 on the other...but if they could help and be trusted theyd be playing.

[RicFlairOne]

Zorn's approach with these rookies is interesting at best. He's called all of the 2nd round picks out in public and I wonder at this point what good it is doing. This approach certainly is not going to help their confidence! Basically calling Davis an idiot (that's how I and many others interpret it) cannot be good for morale either.

I'm also curious about how Vinnie sees all of this - you hired this guy (Zorn out of nowhere) and he has been questioning your top 3 picks on numerous occasions. Makes me wonder more and more what is going on at Redskin Park!

[shally]

Zorn's approach with these rookies is interesting at best. He's called all of the 2nd round picks out in public and I wonder at this point what good it is doing. This approach certainly is not going to help their confidence! Basically calling Davis an idiot (that's how I and many others interpret it) cannot be good for morale either.

I'm also curious about how Vinnie sees all of this - you hired this guy (Zorn out of nowhere) and he has been questioning your top 3 picks on numerous occasions. Makes me wonder more and more what is going on at Redskin Park!

not unusual for coaches to not trust rookies.. gibbs was like that for certain

[MadDog97]

not unusual for coaches to not trust rookies.. gibbs was like that for certain

I have wonder if Zorn is seriously questioning some picks. I remember a comment after the 2nd round that Zorn had a look of wondering about the choices. Maybe I am not the only one who thinks 3 receivers in the 2nd was not particularly right. I think Thomas will contribute but Kelly is not looking good. I liked Davis early but maybe the coaches see something we don't. And Jason Taylor is beginning to remind me of Bruce Smith.


:doh: :doh:

[shally]

I have wonder if Zorn is seriously questioning some picks. I remember a comment after the 2nd round that Zorn had a look of wondering about the choices. Maybe I am not the only one who thinks 3 receivers in the 2nd was not particularly right. I think Thomas will contribute but Kelly is not looking good. I liked Davis early but maybe the coaches see something we don't. And Jason Taylor is beginning to remind me of Bruce Smith.


:doh: :doh:

smith was yet better against the run...

i think in 2 more years we will wonder why we took thomas ahead of kelly. if kelly can ever get his knees right, he has the prototypical body.. that is the only question-- although i admit it is a huge one right now.. still, lots of receivers have had busts of their first year...

i personally think they are using davis way wrong.. they are making things way too complicated for him.. send him out to do one route and let him beat a defender one on one.. what do you think the cowboys are doing with bennett ?

[skinsfan36]

smith was yet better against the run...

i think in 2 more years we will wonder why we took thomas ahead of kelly. if kelly can ever get his knees right, he has the prototypical body.. that is the only question-- although i admit it is a huge one right now.. still, lots of receivers have had busts of their first year...

i personally think they are using davis way wrong.. they are making things way too complicated for him.. send him out to do one route and let him beat a defender one on one.. what do you think the cowboys are doing with bennett ?

i say you give them 3 years especially if they are raw like thomas.kelly ill give him 3 because hes being redshirted