Question for those who went ? Wind Effects ?

[shally]

i want someone who was there to comment upon something that struck me watching the game on tv.

how much effect did the wind have on the kicking game?

suisham missed a 46 or 47 yarder that was just plain short. plus, the FG he made kind of limped over as well. was the miss a result of the wind or did he just flub it ? i cannot recall seeing him short on that length kick before this..

also, kicking the other way, suisham didnt come close to putting a kickoff into the end zone.. if the wind was blowing that hard, the KO's should have gone into the stands instead of being short.

what gives ? was the wind swirling ? plackenmeier had a 52 yard punt and i think the dallas punter had issues all game.

[redskin_rich]

The wind was bad outside of the stadium but was a non factor inside.

[skinsfan36]

it was gusting every one in a while and the 52 yd punt was into the wind.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

Here's a question for ticket holders: How long have we been doing the "Hey, You Suck!" chant? I've seen it the last two weeks and I'm thinking bad mojo to be honest.

[shally]

The wind was bad outside of the stadium but was a non factor inside.

if the hold was good.. then that miss short was inexcusable...i cannot say i am impressed with suisham

[redskin_rich]

Here's a question for ticket holders: How long have we been doing the "Hey, You Suck!" chant? I've seen it the last two weeks and I'm thinking bad mojo to be honest.

It's a Maryland thing. Ask the Terp fans. Just like the stupid "Ooohhh" during the national anthem. Idiots...

[InsomniaKiller]

Here's a question for ticket holders: How long have we been doing the "Hey, You Suck!" chant? I've seen it the last two weeks and I'm thinking bad mojo to be honest.

I am not a ticket holder, but I remember very distinctly the first time I heard it. It was in the 2005 season, so it's been going on for quite some time.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Here's a question for ticket holders: How long have we been doing the "Hey, You Suck!" chant? I've seen it the last two weeks and I'm thinking bad mojo to be honest.

Bad mojo? That's the chant we used during the 35-7 beatdown of Dallas (effectively ending their playoff hopes). I love that chant.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

Reminds me of the Kurt Angle chant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDrPSfCu0Mc&NR=1

[hail2skins]

I don't know about Rich's section but we had a lot of wind in our section and I sit in the endzone where that kick was headed. It was into a stiff wind. That flags behind us were raising cane all game long.

[Patrick]

It's a Maryland thing. Ask the Terp fans. Just like the stupid "Ooohhh" during the national anthem. Idiots...

:rolleyes: .................... actually sounded very cool on my surround system. And yes it's a chant that was started at Maryland BUT it's no longer allowed - Or I should say the “Band” can’t help influence it.
The "Oooooohhhh" thing that Rich refer to was started in Baltimore by those people ... NOT MD fans.

[AliBabba]

The wind was bad outside of the stadium but was a non factor inside.

Yep. I sit in the lower level in the corner of the endzone where that kick went. That had ZERO to do with wind, just a soft kick.

Rich -- the flags on top of the goalposts were going pretty strong at times, but I agree that it was much, much stronger in the lot.

It's a Maryland thing. Ask the Terp fans. Just like the stupid "Ooohhh" during the national anthem. Idiots...

Grrrrrrrr...... taking potshots at UMD again I see. First, yes, the "You Suck" chant is popular at UMD but I've been doing that since high school football in the Baltimore area so I wouldn't call it a strictly UMD thing.

And while I am on Baltimore, the "OOOOOOOO!" during the National Anthem is a Baltimore "O!"-rioles thing..... history below


"O!"

Since the Super70s, it has been a tradition at Orioles games for fans to accent the line of "Oh say does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave" in the The Star Spangled Banner by yelling "O!" This tradition carries on to this day. Some killjoys consider the yell to be disrespectful to the national anthem.

The tradition is so strong and beloved, that it is carried out at many other sporting events, both professional and not, throughout the Baltimore/Washington area. Notably at Washington Capitals games, where it is sometimes changed to "Olie!" in honor of longtime Capitals goalie Olaf Kolzig. The tradition has also sparked many high schools and universities in the Baltimore/Washington area to ask crowds to not do the chant before the national anthem is sung.

The "O!" created a bit of controversy in the summer of 2005 when hundreds of fans every night would do the "O!" cry at Washington Nationals games at RFK Stadium (http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Stadiums/Modern/WashingtonDC_RFK.asp). Many believed that the cry was out-of-place at RFK, while many insisted that many Washingtonians were still Orioles fans and the chant was welcome at Nats games. A June 10, 2005 story on the front-page of The Washington Post by David Fahrenthold chronicled this debate.

LINK (http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Teams/Baltimore/)

[redskin_rich]

I don't know about Rich's section but we had a lot of wind in our section and I sit in the endzone where that kick was headed. It was into a stiff wind. That flags behind us were raising cane all game long.
The flags at the top of the stadium were moving but I couldn't feel in the stadium. Perhaps it was swirling on your side, though.
:rolleyes: .................... actually sounded very cool on my surround system. And yes it's a chant that was started at Maryland BUT it's no longer allowed - Or I should say the “Band” can’t help influence it.
The "Oooooohhhh" thing that Rich refer to was started in Baltimore by those people ... NOT MD fans.
Like I said, all those classy chants started in the state of MD. The reason most places don't play the "you suck" song (Rock and Roll pt.2) is because the composer of that stupid song was a convicted pedophile.

[shally]

I don't know about Rich's section but we had a lot of wind in our section and I sit in the endzone where that kick was headed. It was into a stiff wind. That flags behind us were raising cane all game long.

that makes sense to me.. it had the look of some drives that i have hit directly into wind. the ball just seemed to get knocked down-- especially as it approached the goal posts. it just stalled and dropped...

if that was so, then he gets a pass.. but overall, i think suisham is running around 75% for his kicks.. that is below nfl standards.. usually you need at least 80 %.

also, the way our offense is sputtering badly, we need every possible point we can get, so those misses hurt very badly. if he makes that kick, perhaps we are only 1 point down in the 4th quarter and it makes strategy a whole lot different.. still, once we went behind, i felt very pessimistic about the outcome of the game because we looked flat while the cowboys were pushing our lines around the field...

[Keino]

The wind was bad outside of the stadium but was a non factor inside.

Disagree with this.

The wind was of the swirling type. If you looked at the flags on top of the stadium, they were clearly blowing one way, but looking at the flags on the goal posts on the same side of the field, they were blowing in the opposite direction.

That doesn't excuse kicking the ball 10 yards short on a 46 yard FG, as I think Suisham saw some penetration and tried to put additional loft on the ball instead of just kicking it with maximum power.

[shally]

Disagree with this.

The wind was of the swirling type. If you looked at the flags on top of the stadium, they were clearly blowing one way, but looking at the flags on the goal posts on the same side of the field, they were blowing in the opposite direction.

That doesn't excuse kicking the ball 10 yards short on a 46 yard FG, as I think Suisham saw some penetration and tried to put additional loft on the ball instead of just kicking it with maximum power.

changing the swing in the middle of a stroke is a recipe for a miss every time.
i think most kickers would simply try to keep their head down and swing through it. if it is going to get blocked, it will get blocked

but i totally agree that being that short on a 46 yard kick is really weak...

[Keino]

Changing the swing mid-stroke only works in bed. There is no other place or sport it works....

[TrueOracle]

That wind was brutal in Sec 328. Keino and I sit in the same section. It was of the swirling variety and both of Suisham's attempts on that side looked limp.

[BurgundyNGold]

It's a Maryland thing. Ask the Terp fans. Just like the stupid "Ooohhh" during the national anthem. Idiots...
I usually like what you say, Rich, but this one was not well thought through. The "Ooohhh" business was started by Canadians at hockey games (where they used to (and might still) play both national anthems if a Canadian team is playing a US team. The idiots are the Americans who picked up this, what I consider to be disrespectful, tradition and brought it down the US and extended it into all sorts of other sporting events.

In, short, the "Ooohhh" thing during the national anthem is NOT a MD thing, although it IS an idiot thing.

As for the "You Suck!" chant, I can't say where it originated but FedEx does it strong. If it did start in MD, at least that's a tradition we can call our own -- unlike those sanitary napkins they handed out for us to wave around before last game.

EDIT: I'll try to find a link for this, as a Canadian friend of mine from Ottawa tells me they have have been doing that for 20 years. I'm inclined to believe him because I've gone to sporting events throughout the country and heard it there, as well. Until I find a link, we'll just go with your Baltimoron theory, as it makes sense too.

[BurgundyNGold]

Yep. I sit in the lower level in the corner of the endzone where that kick went. That had ZERO to do with wind, just a soft kick.

Rich -- the flags on top of the goalposts were going pretty strong at times, but I agree that it was much, much stronger in the lot.



Grrrrrrrr...... taking potshots at UMD again I see. First, yes, the "You Suck" chant is popular at UMD but I've been doing that since high school football in the Baltimore area so I wouldn't call it a strictly UMD thing.

And while I am on Baltimore, the "OOOOOOOO!" during the National Anthem is a Baltimore "O!"-rioles thing..... history below



LINK (http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Teams/Baltimore/)
The Baltimorons would like to take credit for this, but is comes from Canada originally.

We should find a place in their national anthem to yell "Eh!", lol.

EDIT: I'll try to find some proof of this on the Interweb.

[redskin_rich]

I usually like what you say, Rich, but this one was not well thought through. The "Ooohhh" business was started by Canadians at hockey games (where they used to (and might still) play both national anthems if a Canadian team is playing a US team. The idiots are the Americans who picked up this, what I consider to be disrespectful, tradition and brought it down the US and extended it into all sorts of other sporting events.

In, short, the "Ooohhh" thing during the national anthem is NOT a MD thing, although it IS an idiot thing.

As for the "You Suck!" chant, I can't say where it originated but FedEx does it strong. If it did start in MD, at least that's a tradition we can call our own -- unlike those sanitary napkins they handed out for us to wave around before last game.

EDIT: I'll try to find a link for this, as a Canadian friend of mine from Ottawa tells me they have have been doing that for 20 years. I'm inclined to believe him because I've gone to sporting events throughout the country and heard it there, as well. Until I find a link, we'll just go with your Baltimoron theory, as it makes sense too.
Sorry but you are wrong. Baltimorons started it after WWII. Go ahead and google it.

[redskin_rich]

Yep. I sit in the lower level in the corner of the endzone where that kick went. That had ZERO to do with wind, just a soft kick.

Rich -- the flags on top of the goalposts were going pretty strong at times, but I agree that it was much, much stronger in the lot.



Grrrrrrrr...... taking potshots at UMD again I see. First, yes, the "You Suck" chant is popular at UMD but I've been doing that since high school football in the Baltimore area so I wouldn't call it a strictly UMD thing.

And while I am on Baltimore, the "OOOOOOOO!" during the National Anthem is a Baltimore "O!"-rioles thing..... history below



LINK (http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Teams/Baltimore/)

When I said Maryland, I was talking about the state in general. If I wanted to take pot shots at UMD, I would have referenced burning cars after a big win.

[Keino]

When I said Maryland, I was talking about the state in general. If I wanted to take pot shots at UMD, I would have referenced burning cars after a big win.

And just what is the matter with burning cars and Mattresses?

And for the record, we Marylanders tried to give Baltimore away years ago, sadly nobody would take it.........

[BurgundyNGold]

Sorry but you are wrong. Baltimorons started it after WWII. Go ahead and google it.
The more I think about it, the more I have to question my friend's account and think that you are correct. Most of the sporting events elsewhere in the country I have attended have been Redskin events. Since our fans travel well, it would make sense their mindless tradition would travel with them. And it would make sense that Baltimorons would come up with such stupidity.

As for the "You suck!" chant, if that is indeed local, I have to say that I like that one. It's not disrespectful of the country and can be a rather effective mobilization of the 12th man. That chant might well be the loudest that the fans get. Imagine being on the field as the visiting team and hearing 90,000 (well, probably 70,000... thanks StubHub) strong raining down "You suck!" on you like a resounding verbal hailstorm, lol.

[AliBabba]

When I said Maryland, I was talking about the state in general. If I wanted to take pot shots at UMD, I would have referenced burning cars after a big win.

:moon1:

And just what is the matter with burning cars and Mattresses?

And for the record, we Marylanders tried to give Baltimore away years ago, sadly nobody would take it.........

:moon2:

[AliBabba]

The more I think about it, the more I have to question my friend's account and think that you are correct. Most of the sporting events elsewhere in the country I have attended have been Redskin events. Since our fans travel well, it would make sense their mindless tradition would travel with them. And it would make sense that Baltimorons would come up with such stupidity.

As for the "You suck!" chant, if that is indeed local, I have to say that I like that one. It's not disrespectful of the country and can be a rather effective mobilization of the 12th man. That chant might well be the loudest that the fans get. Imagine being on the field as the visiting team and hearing 90,000 (well, probably 70,000... thanks StubHub) strong raining down "You suck!" on you like a resounding verbal hailstorm, lol.
I don't see how it is disrespectful to the country at all

[Keino]

I don't see how it is disrespectful to the country at all

Are you serious?

There are rules of appropriate conduct during the Singing of the Star Spangled Banner which consists of being at attention until the singing is over.....


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sec_36_00000301----000-.html

* The Pledge of Allegiance all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
* When the national anthem is played or sung;

(a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem. (b) Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem— (1) when the flag is displayed— (A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention. (B) men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, (C) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and (2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

Singing along is not disrespectful, but Shouting "Ohh" during the rendition most certainly is......

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't see how it is disrespectful to the country at all
Maybe I am more sensitive to it, having served in the military and having proper tradition drummed into me repeatedly, but yelling "Oh!" during the national anthem is not proper decorum. It's like leaving your hat on, not standing or talking during the anthem. You just don't do it.

[Keino]

Maybe I am more sensitive to it, having served in the military and having proper tradition drummed into me repeatedly, but yelling "Oh!" during the national anthem is not proper decorum. It's like leaving your hat on, not standing or talking during the anthem. You just don't do it.

No, neither my father or myself ever served in the military and we wish that people would take that "Oh" Bidness back up I-95 (or 295) for 45 miles or so.

We hate it. We are not Orioles.

[AliBabba]

Are you serious?

There are rules of appropriate conduct during the Singing of the Star Spangled Banner which consists of being at attention until the singing is over.....


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode36/usc_sec_36_00000301----000-.html



Singing along is not disrespectful, but Shouting "Ohh" during the rendition most certainly is......
I hate this debate, but here we go .....

There is nothing in that code that even remotely addresses this issue.

Also, for many kids, the young "Baltimorons", the "O!" during the anthem serves to raise their excitement about the anthem itself. Go to an Orioles game and see how many young kids stand up immediately on the first note and know every word ...

[BurgundyNGold]

No, neither my father or myself ever served in the military and we wish that people would take that "Oh" Bidness back up I-95 (or 295) for 45 miles or so.

We hate it. We are not Orioles.
I've always thought that, even if not meant as disrespectful, the "Oh!" was gauche and should be avoided for that reason if no other. I'm always embarrassed when people do it.

[BurgundyNGold]

I hate this debate, but here we go .....

There is nothing in that code that even remotely addresses this issue.
The code addresses expected, reverent behavior. Anything outside of this -- especially notable irreverence -- is inherently addressed as unacceptable by omission.

Also, for many kids, the young "Baltimorons", the "O!" during the anthem serves to raise their excitement about the anthem itself. Go to an Orioles game and see how many young kids stand up immediately on the first note and know every word ...
They seem inclined to want to sing the whole anthem. Maybe they should use the Google instead of floundering in monosyllabic ignorance, lol. ;)

[AliBabba]

Maybe I am more sensitive to it, having served in the military and having proper tradition drummed into me repeatedly, but yelling "Oh!" during the national anthem is not proper decorum. It's like leaving your hat on, not standing or talking during the anthem. You just don't do it.

If you were to attend a game at Camden yards you'd see how seriously the town takes the anthem. Here in DC, the ah-em Capitol, people are constantly chattering, not removing their hats, and sometimes not even standing until they nudged or glared at long enough.

I am a duel citizen/native of both cities. I have lived in both for over 10 years and was raised in Baltimore > DC > Baltimore as a child. There is no doubt in my mind which is the more "patriotic" city when it comes to the national anthem. It never ceases to amaze me that people at skins games leave their hats on all the time... at the 'zona game I asked the guy beside me to remove his hat and he gave me the finger.

No, neither my father or myself ever served in the military and we wish that people would take that "Oh" Bidness back up I-95 (or 295) for 45 miles or so.

We hate it. We are not Orioles.

I different point altogether. If I had no allegiance to the O-birds I'd feel the exact same way.

[Keino]

I hate this debate, but here we go .....

There is nothing in that code that even remotely addresses this issue.

Also, for many kids, the young "Baltimorons", the "O!" during the anthem serves to raise their excitement about the anthem itself. Go to an Orioles game and see how many young kids stand up immediately on the first note and know every word ...

You are correct except for that whole standing at attention during the duration of the song. Other than that you are 100% correct (Meaning not at all). And no thanks, I will not go to the Troll's park and put any money in his pocket, so I will pass on going to an Orioles game.

It is 100000% Disrespectful. Anything other than Standing at attention with your hand Across your heart (with hat in hand) for the duration of the song is disrespectful. That is clear from the language in the Code.....

[AliBabba]

The code addresses expected, reverent behavior. Anything outside of this -- especially notable irreverence -- is inherently addressed as unacceptable by omission.

Therein lies the disconnect. Nobody in B'more would for a second consider this irreverent. They take the anthem very seriously and take pride in the fact that it was written at Fort McHenry.

They seem inclined to want to sing the whole anthem. Maybe they should use the Google instead of floundering in monosyllabic ignorance, lol. ;)

I'll have to stop in at my old elementary school and see what the Google generation is up to I guess, lol

[Keino]

Fine, if nobody in the city of Balmer finds it irreverent then they should keep that confined to the city limits of Balmer.

Everyone outside of that god-forsaken place finds it irreverent, and you never hear it outside of the Washington-Baltimore Metro Corridor.

[BurgundyNGold]

If you were to attend a game at Camden yards you'd see how seriously the town takes the anthem. Here in DC, the ah-em Capitol, people are constantly chattering, not removing their hats, and sometimes not even standing until they nudged or glared at long enough.
Most people who live in Baltimore have been in that are for generations, so that doesn't surprise me. DC is more a transitory town, many of whom are first generation Americans or are merely here temporarily. I'd expect a lower level of adherence to proper Star Spangled Banner decorum; however, that does not excuse any disrespectful behavior by anyone who knows better.

I am a duel citizen/native of both cities. I have lived in both for over 10 years and was raised in Baltimore > DC > Baltimore as a child. There is no doubt in my mind which is the more "patriotic" city when it comes to the national anthem. It never ceases to amaze me that people at skins games leave their hats on all the time... at the 'zona game I asked the guy beside me to remove his hat and he gave me the finger.
I don't doubt the patriotism of the folks who yell "Oh!" during the national anthem when it is not proper decorum to do so. I know nothing of them personally. What I do know is that the behavior they revel in exhibiting is disrespectful to the Star Spangled Banner, a behavior that through ignorance, irreverence or some misguided sense of tradition, they continue to practice.

[AliBabba]

You are correct except for that whole standing at attention during the duration of the song. Other than that you are 100% correct (Meaning not at all). And no thanks, I will not go to the Troll's park and put any money in his pocket, so I will pass on going to an Orioles game.

It is 100000% Disrespectful. Anything other than Standing at attention with your hand Across your heart (with hat in hand) for the duration of the song is disrespectful. That is clear from the language in the Code.....

I'ts only 100000% disrespectful in your interpretation of the code and decorum. Again the code doesn't address this in my interpretation of it ....

A blue-collar town like Baltimore sends many, many people into armed service in this country. You think those individuals come back and view the city as irreverent and disrespectful because of this tradition? They don't. Why then do you apply these? You aren't from there, you don't like it, and easy to find ways to trash and demonize something you don't like ...

[BurgundyNGold]

Therein lies the disconnect. Nobody in B'more would for a second consider this irreverent. They take the anthem very seriously and take pride in the fact that it was written at Fort McHenry.
If they know enough to have learned that it was written at Fort McHenry then they should know what proper conduct during the song in which they take so much "pride". It sounds to me like Baltimorons have more reverence for their O's than they do the national anthem, so much so that they feel the need to ignore proper decorum and national tradition to pay them hillbilly homage during the national anthem.

I'll have to stop in at my old elementary school and see what the Google generation is up to I guess, lol
I don't know that schools teach much about the pledge, the flag or the anthem anymore, which may be part of the problem. We used to have to say the pledge every day. I don't know if they have to do that anymore.

[Keino]

I'ts only 100000% disrespectful in your interpretation of the code and decorum. Again the code doesn't address this in my interpretation of it ....

A blue-collar town like Baltimore sends many, many people into armed service in this country. You think those individuals come back and view the city as irreverent and disrespectful because of this tradition? They don't. Why then do you apply these? You aren't from there, you don't like it, and easy to find ways to trash and demonize something you don't like ...

The code only addresses acceptable behavior. Which is why your interpretation is not addressed. The language is Affirmative, therefore anything not covered therein is deemed unacceptable. This is not my interpretation, any person adept at reading legal language would come away with the same interpretation.

I demonize it because it is disrespectful the Country I love. How someone in the city views it doesn't matter one way or the other to me. Again, the Code is very clear on the point. Stand at attention for the duration of the song. That is proper behavior. Anything different than that is not. I have no problems believing that individuals from the city of Balmer are unintentionally and ignorantly disrespecting the National Anthem. Please just keep it confined to Balmer.......

[BurgundyNGold]

I'ts only 100000% disrespectful in your interpretation of the code and decorum. Again the code doesn't address this in my interpretation of it ....

A blue-collar town like Baltimore sends many, many people into armed service in this country. You think those individuals come back and view the city as irreverent and disrespectful because of this tradition? They don't. Why then do you apply these? You aren't from there, you don't like it, and easy to find ways to trash and demonize something you don't like ...
I would like to know how many ex-service members participate in that practice. I haven't met any. Most that I know abhor the practice.

[AliBabba]

Fine, if nobody in the city of Balmer finds it irreverent then they should keep that confined to the city limits of Balmer.

Everyone outside of that god-forsaken place finds it irreverent, and you never hear it outside of the Washington-Baltimore Metro Corridor.

So its a matter of interpretation then? I'll make sure I get an email out to everyone letting 'em know that its not cool to do this outside of the city limits anymore.

Most people who live in Baltimore have been in that are for generations, so that doesn't surprise me. DC is more a transitory town, many of whom are first generation Americans or are merely here temporarily. I'd expect a lower level of adherence to proper Star Spangled Banner decorum; however, that does not excuse any disrespectful behavior by anyone who knows better.

I don't doubt the patriotism of the folks who yell "Oh!" during the national anthem when it is not proper decorum to do so. I know nothing of them personally. What I do know is that the behavior they revel in exhibiting is disrespectful to the Star Spangled Banner, a behavior that through ignorance, irreverence or some misguided sense of tradition, they continue to practice.

Dude, come on. Again, I have lived in both cities my whole life but this is a real stretch. You expect lower-level of adherence to National Anthem because of the number of first-gens and immigrants?!?

DC is absolutely a transitory town but most people come from Iowa, Michigan, California, Texas ... the other states. Sure there are people from overseas but they aren't the ones filling the stadiums and frankly to say this you would lower your expectation level of the citizens of the nation's friggin' capitol b/c of that population is ridiculous.

Also, last I checked first-gens were born here, are American, and were taught in school what the National Anthem is all about. If those individuals who are lucky enough to start their lives in this country can't get excited about it then that behavior is even more inexcusable....

[Keino]

So its a matter of interpretation then? I'll make sure I get an email out to everyone letting 'em know that its not cool to do this outside of the city limits anymore.

No it's not. The language is quite clear. Only those wishing to rationalize this disrespectful behavior interpret it it differently.


The language is Affirmative. It only speaks to what is acceptable. It does not speak to what is not acceptable, ergo, your "ohhh" is not addressed because it is not appropriate. Nothing outside of standing at attention for the duration of the song is. Are you being intentionally obtuse on this point?

[AliBabba]

I would like to know how many ex-service members participate in that practice. I haven't met any. Most that I know abhor the practice.

There's many in my age range I could query now as a result of this war. I will be back for Thanksgiving and I'll actually ask and if you still care at that time I'll let you know what they have to say ...

[BurgundyNGold]

The code only addresses acceptable behavior. Which is why your interpretation is not addressed. The language is Affirmative, therefore anything not covered therein is deemed unacceptable. This is not my interpretation, any person adept at reading legal language would come away with the same interpretation.

I demonize it because it is disrespectful the Country I love. How someone in the city views it doesn't matter one way or the other to me. Again, the Code is very clear on the point. Stand at attention for the duration of the song. That is proper behavior. Anything different than that is not. I have no problems believing that individuals from the city of Balmer are unintentionally and ignorantly disrespecting the National Anthem. Please just keep it confined to Balmer.......
Technically, the term "standing at attention" in and of itself is direction as to proper behavior. When at attention, you are not supposed to talk. The only time you can verbalize or divert your head when at attention is, perhaps not coincidentally, when the national anthem is being played so that you can turn to the flag, salute and, optionally, sing the words.

In fact, no matter where you are on base in the military, if you hear reveille in the morning or evening (when the flag goes up and down), you are supposed to stop, turn towards the highest flag (or the direction of the flag being raised or lowered) and salute at attention until the song is over. The national anthem gets the same treatment.

[AliBabba]

No it's not. The language is quite clear. Only those wishing to rationalize this disrespectful behavior interpret it it differently.


The language is Affirmative. It only speaks to what is acceptable. It does not speak to what is not acceptable, ergo, your "ohhh" is not addressed because it is not appropriate. Nothing outside of standing at attention for the duration of the song is. Are you being intentionally obtuse on this point?

I'm not adept at reading legal language so it's not my intention to be obtuse. Thanks though for qualifying it with "this point", lol

Look, the fact is that me and thousands more that were raised there have never for a seconds thought believed that by showing this enthusiasm during the Star Spangled Banner we are disrespecting the country. Nobody places the Orioles before the country, the flag, the Anthem....

I've had this discussion with quite a few people over the years, though. It always ends the same way. To those not from Baltimore its annoying, rude, unpatriotic, irreverent or all of these things. For those from B'more it's just tradition.

[Keino]

BNG I was actually looking for, as a part of that point, a definition for standing at attention because I suspected what you wrote to be true. Sadly, the only one that popped up for me was the Urban dictionary version, and I am quite sure the code didn't mean stand at attention in THAT way.......If the mere song caused that I would be in a completely different industry ;)

[Keino]

For those from B'more it's just tradition.

Ahhh. Just tradition. Shirley Jackson wrote a story about continuing tradition for the sake of the tradition......

The Lottery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lottery)

[BurgundyNGold]

Dude, come on. Again, I have lived in both cities my whole life but this is a real stretch. You expect lower-level of adherence to National Anthem because of the number of first-gens and immigrants?!?
Why would (or should) a kid on an F-1 or an H1-B visa from the Philippines or home staff at a foreign embassy stand for the US national anthem? Why should they? I wouldn't expect them to know the traditional or to practice it even if they did any more than you would take part in honoring the patriotic traditions of a country that you happen to be visiting.

As for the first generation folks, this goes back to the elementary school thing again. I don't think they know the traditions properly -- especially if they came here as adults. That's not an excuse, only a rationalization.

DC is absolutely a transitory town but most people come from Iowa, Michigan, California, Texas ... the other states. Sure there are people from overseas but they aren't the ones filling the stadiums and frankly to say this you would lower your expectation level of the citizens of the nation's friggin' capitol b/c of that population is ridiculous.
I don't have a lower expectation of the citizens in this region. And the folks from other parts of the country are often appalled at this Baltimore import. Also, you'd be remiss if you didn't think that a much larger number of non-US citizens go to Redskin games than go to O's games.

Also, last I checked first-gens were born here, are American, and were taught in school what the National Anthem is all about. If those individuals who are lucky enough to start their lives in this country can't get excited about it then that behavior is even more inexcusable....
First generation does not mean that you were born here. You can be a first generation citizen born to green card holding parents. Or, you can be first generation through naturalization.

Perhaps these first generation folks look around and see Baltimore clowns disrespecting the national anthem and learn through local assimilation that the national anthem is apparently not too much of a big deal if you can yell through it?

[AliBabba]

If they know enough to have learned that it was written at Fort McHenry then they should know what proper conduct during the song in which they take so much "pride". It sounds to me like Baltimorons have more reverence for their O's than they do the national anthem, so much so that they feel the need to ignore proper decorum and national tradition to pay them hillbilly homage during the national anthem.

Hillbilly homage, lol. That's some good alliteration, I'm gonna remember that one.

Obviously nobody places the O-birds before the flag so I'll leave it at that. As far as ignoring tradition goes -- following tradition is precisely what they are doing ....

I don't know that schools teach much about the pledge, the flag or the anthem anymore, which may be part of the problem. We used to have to say the pledge every day. I don't know if they have to do that anymore.

I'm not exactly old yet but I had to say the pledge every day as well. We also learned everything from Mary Pickersgill to Betsy Ross to where to hold your hat when it comes to the Anthem. Obviously they seem to omitted the fact that you shouldn't yell "O!" though

[BurgundyNGold]

No it's not. The language is quite clear. Only those wishing to rationalize this disrespectful behavior interpret it it differently.


The language is Affirmative. It only speaks to what is acceptable. It does not speak to what is not acceptable, ergo, your "ohhh" is not addressed because it is not appropriate. Nothing outside of standing at attention for the duration of the song is. Are you being intentionally obtuse on this point?
Exactly. By the logic Ali is advancing, I should be able to urinate during the national anthem because it is not otherwise prohibited by the language or national anthem decorum.

[BurgundyNGold]

There's many in my age range I could query now as a result of this war. I will be back for Thanksgiving and I'll actually ask and if you still care at that time I'll let you know what they have to say ...
I'd like to know how they reconcile yelling "Oh!" while out of uniform if they know it be a disrespectful thing to do in uniform. Also, ask them if they would do it in front of their commander, while both were attending a game out of uniform.

[AliBabba]

Exactly. By the logic Ali is advancing, I should be able to urinate during the national anthem because it is not otherwise prohibited by the language or national anthem decorum.
Come on, I just meant there was nothing explicitly there and have admitted to be ignorant to Affirmative legaleze.

[BurgundyNGold]

Hillbilly homage, lol. That's some good alliteration, I'm gonna remember that one.

Obviously nobody places the O-birds before the flag so I'll leave it at that. As far as ignoring tradition goes -- following tradition is precisely what they are doing ....
That's my point. They are choosing to inject their local tradition over top of 200+ years of practiced national tradition. In essence, they're choosing to ignore the proper decorum for a local antic that, through repetition has become local tradition. Just because it is a local tradition does not mean that it is not disrespectful of and out of compliance with the larger encompassing national policy. Does the Maryland flag fly higher than the US flag at Camden Yard, as well?

I'm not exactly old yet but I had to say the pledge every day as well. We also learned everything from Mary Pickersgill to Betsy Ross to where to hold your hat when it comes to the Anthem. Obviously they seem to omitted the fact that you shouldn't yell "O!" though
Maybe that's something that should be taken up with the local school board, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

Come on, I just meant there was nothing explicitly there and have admitted to be ignorant to Affirmative legaleze.
It is a code of conduct. It tells you what your behavior should be. As you point out, it does not tell you what your behavior should not be, but it should be apparent that anything outside of that code would be unacceptable -- even waving around an American flag.

Now, here's a question: Should we have to stand for "God Bless America"?

[BurgundyNGold]

Ali, I have a question.

If you (or someone from Baltimore who does the "Oh!" thing if you don't) were to go to Iowa, Michigan or Texas to watch a sporting event, would you do the "Oh!" thing during the national anthem there?

[AliBabba]

It is a code of conduct. It tells you what your behavior should be. As you point out, it does not tell you what your behavior should not be, but it should be apparent that anything outside of that code would be unacceptable -- even waving around an American flag.

Now, here's a question: Should we have to stand for "God Bless America"?

Left to go get some actual work done, lol. I don't think it's appropriate to expect people to stand for GBA. The story behind Francis Scott Key and the Star Spangled Banner is so special. It's the American underdog story, the stars and the stripes, and their perseverence. We only have one official national anthem and while God Bless America is a great tribute its not the National Anthem.

Ali, I have a question.

If you (or someone from Baltimore who does the "Oh!" thing if you don't) were to go to Iowa, Michigan or Texas to watch a sporting event, would you do the "Oh!" thing during the national anthem there?

Shooting myself in the foot here, but probably not. I can see how that would be disrespectful as nobody would understand and just think I'm somebody who decided they needed to yell during the national anthem.

[Keino]

So the answer is to move the Orioles to Iowa, Michigan or Texas. Or move the city of Baltimore. Either outcome is acceptable to me.

[BurgundyNGold]

Left to go get some actual work done, lol. I don't think it's appropriate to expect people to stand for GBA. The story behind Francis Scott Key and the Star Spangled Banner is so special. It's the American underdog story, the stars and the stripes, and their perseverence. We only have one official national anthem and while God Bless America is a great tribute its not the National Anthem.
Agreed. In some ways, standing for God Bless America somewhat cheapens the sanctimony of doing it for the Star Spangled Banner. I usually do though, lol.

Shooting myself in the foot here, but probably not. I can see how that would be disrespectful as nobody would understand and just think I'm somebody who decided they needed to yell during the national anthem.
I guess that's the crux of the battle over this at FedEx. It's a Baltimore thing and an O's thing, I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it. If it was confined to sporting events in the Inner Harbor, I could pretty much let it go. But it isn't.

Football is not baseball, the Redskins are not the O's, FedEx is not Camden Yard (or Memorial Stadium) and Washington is not Baltimore. So why do so many idiots not get any of those things? Why do they feel the need to export their ill-applied "tradition"?

[BurgundyNGold]

So the answer is to move the Orioles to Iowa, Michigan or Texas. Or move the city of Baltimore. Either outcome is acceptable to me.
I feel another call for a nuclear strike in your immediate future, lol.

[Keino]

I feel another call for a nuclear strike in your immediate future, lol.

If I wasn't concerned for my parents, I would be all for it, Silver Spring could get the fall-out......I mean the final elimination of the Beehive hair-do and every sentence ending with "hon" I am almost willing to take the chance.....

[BurgundyNGold]

If I wasn't concerned for my parents, I would be all for it, Silver Spring could get the fall-out......I mean the final elimination of the Beehive hair-do and every sentence ending with "hon" I am almost willing to take the chance.....
:lol1:

Oh and weather generally moves from SW to NE up here. So the fallout would likely end up over Jersey. They probably wouldn't notice, lol.

[AliBabba]

So the answer is to move the Orioles to Iowa, Michigan or Texas. Or move the city of Baltimore. Either outcome is acceptable to me.
Now that this debate appears to have come full circle, :moon2:

I guess that's the crux of the battle over this at FedEx. It's a Baltimore thing and an O's thing, I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it. If it was confined to sporting events in the Inner Harbor, I could pretty much let it go. But it isn't.

Football is not baseball, the Redskins are not the O's, FedEx is not Camden Yard (or Memorial Stadium) and Washington is not Baltimore. So why do so many idiots not get any of those things? Why do they feel the need to export their ill-applied "tradition"?

They're a bunch "Baltimorons?" DC is a transitory town?

[Keino]

I've always believed that Philly and Baltimore were cousins. As I have gotten older, I have come to realize that they are twin products of a 1st Cousin Marriage........So they are actually siblings.....and 2nd cousins.

[BurgundyNGold]

They're a bunch "Baltimorons?" DC is a transitory town?
I'm willing to cede both points, lol.

I guess if the Baltimorons keep their tradition in their city, I can leave well enough alone. I still think it's disrespectful, but when it's happening in Baltimore, you can make the argument that it is merely the tradition of supporting the O's in their home stadium when the national anthem is performed. However, outside of that stadium -- and especially at events not related to the O's -- I can only see it as disrespectful and borderline retarded, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

I've always believed that Philly and Baltimore were cousins. As I have gotten older, I have come to realize that they are twin products of a 1st Cousin Marriage........So they are actually siblings.....and 2nd cousins.
So Philly is a crack baby and Baltimore is the afterbirth?

[jtovb2005]

Here's a question for ticket holders: How long have we been doing the "Hey, You Suck!" chant? I've seen it the last two weeks and I'm thinking bad mojo to be honest.

I would say it started last year or maybe the year before. Is it some bleed over from college games or something? At least that is what it feels like to me, kids stuff.

[jtovb2005]

To tell you the truth I never saw the flags on the goal posts moving at all. the flags at the top of stadium were going full speed though. I really didn't think the wind had any impact. Might be wrong though.

[jtovb2005]

EDIT: I'll try to find a link for this, as a Canadian friend of mine from Ottawa tells me they have have been doing that for 20 years. I'm inclined to believe him because I've gone to sporting events throughout the country and heard it there, as well. Until I find a link, we'll just go with your Baltimoron theory, as it makes sense too.

I’ve been going to sporting events since 1979 or so and remember it here. I always associated it with the Orioles. Mostly remember it at Caps games then not Redskin games but that was along time ago :)

[esmith1790]

Maybe I am more sensitive to it, having served in the military and having proper tradition drummed into me repeatedly, but yelling "Oh!" during the national anthem is not proper decorum. It's like leaving your hat on, not standing or talking during the anthem. You just don't do it.

I am a fellow military person as well, here in dallas for the hockey team the Dallas Stars, everyone says 'Stars' real loud during it as well. what sucks is at a hockey game with only15,000 people and just a couple of dudes standing in the row behind you being the only ones in our section to do that crap.



"O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave"

[hockeygoalie29]

I have to come to the aid of the "Oh" crowd.

Growing up in Maryland (Bowie), I only recently realized that the "Oh!" during the anthem was a regional phenomenon. Some of my earliest memories are of going to Caps games and yelling "Oh" and I can honestly say that I had no idea this was started because of the Orioles. I believed 100% that it was a tribute to the anthem and the country that the crowd was showing by joining in and putting emphasis on that one syllable in unison. I thought this was how it was done everywhere and was appalled when I found out it was started in Baltimore to honor the Orioles. Needless to say, I haven't done it since.

However, since it has been going on for so long in this area, I'd bet there are many just like me who have been doing it for as long as they can remember with no idea of the true origins. So next time the guy next to you yells "Oh", give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's simply being patriotic.

[BurgundyNGold]

I have to come to the aid of the "Oh" crowd.

Growing up in Maryland (Bowie), I only recently realized that the "Oh!" during the anthem was a regional phenomenon. Some of my earliest memories are of going to Caps games and yelling "Oh" and I can honestly say that I had no idea this was started because of the Orioles. I believed 100% that it was a tribute to the anthem and the country that the crowd was showing by joining in and putting emphasis on that one syllable in unison. I thought this was how it was done everywhere and was appalled when I found out it was started in Baltimore to honor the Orioles. Needless to say, I haven't done it since.

However, since it has been going on for so long in this area, I'd bet there are many just like me who have been doing it for as long as they can remember with no idea of the true origins. So next time the guy next to you yells "Oh", give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's simply being patriotic.
Interesting points. I can agree that there is some local tradition associated with it, as there seems to be ample evidence for it. However, it also stands to reason that the folks who yell "Oh!" know it to be improper, as well. If they don't, I fear for their eternal souls, lol.

[Biggie]

It's a Maryland thing. Ask the Terp fans. Just like the stupid "Ooohhh" during the national anthem. Idiots...
First of all, that hurt.

Second of all, there is a humongous difference between the "You Suck" at Terps games and everywhere else. When we do it after scores in College Park, the entire student body is raining down a message of destruction on those who dare come into our house and violate the sanctity of Byrd/Comcast/etc. - we're letting them know where they are. 50,000 people doing that chant in unison and pointing at you has to be one of the most intimidating things I've ever personally seen, and even as one of the people doing it, I'm still taken aback at how much force must come across with it if you're on that visitor's sideline.

However, I have absolutely no idea why it happens at FedEx. Nowhere near the same thing, and frankly a little obnoxious (not that I didn't join in when I went to the Cards game).

[BurgundyNGold]

First of all, that hurt.

Second of all, there is a humongous difference between the "You Suck" at Terps games and everywhere else. When we do it after scores in College Park, the entire student body is raining down a message of destruction on those who dare come into our house and violate the sanctity of Byrd - we're letting them know where they are. 50,000 people doing that chant in unison and pointing at you has to be one of the most intimidating things I've ever personally seen, and even as one of the people doing it, I'm still taken aback at how much force must come across with it if you're on that visitor's sideline.

However, I have absolutely no idea why it happens at FedEx. Nowhere near the same thing, and frankly a little obnoxious (not that I didn't join in when I went to the Cards game).
I think they usually play the "You Suck!" song after the Redskins score, as well.

[hail2skins]

and before the kickoff.

[redskin_rich]

First of all, that hurt.

I should have separated those sentences with a space. I wasn't calling UMD fans idiots, I was referring to the people doing the "ooh" chant. Whether or not they know why they do it, it is stupid and embarrassing.

But the "hey... you suck!" chant definitely originated from UMD. It was funny for a while but the novelty has worn off. Furthermore, the way our team is playing, it would probably be more appropriate if the chant was aimed at our own team.

Sorry to the UMD fans who took offense but no apologies to the "ooh" chanting clowns -- You suck, really.

signed,
(no longer quite as bitter) fan.

[dj_stouty]

I don't like the "ohhhh" scream in the middle of the anthem...but I sort of dig the "You suck" chant. It comes across on TV very well...and I laugh everytime I hear it.

[Skinzwelder]

I would like to know how many ex-service members participate in that practice. I haven't met any. Most that I know abhor the practice.

As an O's fan (ducks head), and a former Marine, I hate the practice myself. I hate it when they do it in B-more and I especially hate it when I hear it at Redskins games. If anyone did that while I was in the service they would have gotten a severe beatdown. It is disrespectful. You are honoring America with that song, not the Orioles.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't like the "ohhhh" scream in the middle of the anthem...but I sort of dig the "You suck" chant. It comes across on TV very well...and I laugh everytime I hear it.
Me too. Somebody should record it at the New York game and make a ring tone out of it, lol.

[AliBabba]

so about that wind ....

[redskin_rich]

so about that wind ....

My side of the stadium (west end zone) was wind free but the other side wasn't and unfortunately, that is where Suissy was kicking the missed FG.

[Keino]

so about that wind ....

I broke Plenty that night.....I blame Rich's Chili:sun:

[The Iceman]

I was at the 50 yd line on the visitors side and we were getting a lot of wind. I wonder how Smoaks legs held up with his shorts on the whole game?

[AliBabba]

My side of the stadium (west end zone) was wind free but the other side wasn't and unfortunately, that is where Suissy was kicking the missed FG.
I don't think that had anythign at all to due with wind though. I sit in the corner of that endzone at that kick just had too much loft and not enough legs.