Could Devin Thomas give us more as the #2 WR than Randle El?

[urobm]

Not sure if this was on a previous post, but I know its been said that Moss is basically our only WR. I would love to see what Thomas can do with more snaps. I think Randle El is a playmaker, but he just cant seem to get of the line of scrimmage. I would like to see him in his more natural role in the slot. Thought?

[JsMaViSd]

Not sure if this was on a previous post, but I know its been said that Moss is basically our only WR. I would love to see what Thomas can do with more snaps. I think Randle El is a playmaker, but he just cant seem to get of the line of scrimmage. I would like to see him in his more natural role in the slot. Thought?

completely agree. ARE and Thomas dont get much looks anyways on offense. But id at least like to see ARE back in his slot where he belongs.

But id MUCH rather see Kelly in the #2 or #3

[Keino]

As a playmaker, probably. Thing is, ARE knows where he is supposed to line-up and Thomas still doesn't.....

[Skinz4lyfe]

Right now no. Maybe at the end of the year yes. I'd love for Thomas to be #2 but from what I'm hearing he's still running wrong routes and JC doesn't quite have the trust factor w/him. He trusts ARE more than Thomas but Thomas definitely has more up side.

[urobm]

completely agree. ARE and Thomas dont get much looks anyways on offense. But id at least like to see ARE back in his slot where he belongs.

But id MUCH rather see Kelly in the #2 or #3

I envisioned Kelly being the #2 at the beginning of the season but its frustrating not seeing him out there at all, whether it be his knee or lack of knowledge of the offense.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

I think that Thomas season is really over because of his being out of shape and his knee problems.he needs to go on IR,work out in the offseason at redskin park,study film and get ready for camp 2009.would'nt be a bad idea for thomas and davis to train here in the offseason too.

[redskin_rich]

Anyone who can catch the ball, would be an upgrade over ARE.

[BurgundyNGold]

Apparently, Thomas can't remember where he put the front door to his own house. And that's only slightly more complicated than the passing tree.

[akhhorus]

ARE and Moss have failed the skins in far too many plays and games. Thomas and Kelly probably should be starters for next year if starters continue to play like they have.

[urobm]

Anyone who can catch the ball, would be an upgrade over ARE.

LOL

[BurgundyNGold]

ARE and Moss have failed the skins in far too many plays and games. Thomas and Kelly probably should be starters for next year if starters continue to play like they have.
ARE probably won't last long after one of either Thomas or Kelly steps up. I think that's why the coaches are so reluctant to IR Kelly. It seems that they think that he is going to be a good one.

[akhhorus]

ARE probably won't last long after one of either Thomas or Kelly steps up. I think that's why the coaches are so reluctant to IR Kelly. It seems that they think that he is going to be a good one.

I don't think either Moss or ARE will be a redskin after 2009 frankly.

[urobm]

I don't think either Moss or ARE will be a redskin after 2009 frankly.

Figured that when they took the Kelly and Thomas but wouldnt mind seeing Moss stay. When he is focused, he really opens things up for the offense.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't think either Moss or ARE will be a redskin after 2009 frankly.
I agree about ARE but I think that Moss can have a special role with two big receivers in the corps him.

[akhhorus]

I agree about ARE but I think that Moss can have a special role with two big receivers in the corps him.

Not at his price. He's starting to show some signs of wear already, so I don't want a 30+ year old slot receiver at 5-8 mil a year unless the cap is gone.

[BurgundyNGold]

Not at his price. He's starting to show some signs of wear already, so I don't want a 30+ year old slot receiver at 5-8 mil a year unless the cap is gone.
He wouldn't make that if we asked him to restructure to stay. If he costs that much, you may be right about him not being here in 2010.

[urobm]

Not at his price. He's starting to show some signs of wear already, so I don't want a 30+ year old slot receiver at 5-8 mil a year unless the cap is gone.

Well before we can even think about that, lets just hope these 2 young WRs can get up to speed.

[akhhorus]

He wouldn't make that if we asked him to restructure to stay. If he costs that much, you may be right about him not being here in 2010.

I've been kicking around a blog for DFA about how a capless NFL would look different, Moss could stay in that situation, but he would be more a trade chip for the skins so that they could use his salary in free agency.

[akhhorus]

Well before we can even think about that, lets just hope these 2 young WRs can get up to speed.

True, but at some point, they have to play significant time as starting WRs over a stretch of a few games. Which means either Moss or ARE will be highly priced backups.

[urobm]

True, but at some point, they have to play significant time as starting WRs over a stretch of a few games. Which means either Moss or ARE will be highly priced backups.

Oh ofcourse!

[urobm]

True, but at some point, they have to play significant time as starting WRs over a stretch of a few games. Which means either Moss or ARE will be highly priced backups.

Again though, atleast Moss brings speed, which in turn brings big play ability, but ARE brings nothing as the #2 WR whether its this year or for the forseable future.

[akhhorus]

Again though, atleast Moss brings speed, which in turn brings big play ability, but ARE brings nothing as the #2 WR whether its this year or for the forseable future.

Yeah, but Moss is pretty clearly dogging it again during games. He has the speed, but that doesn't do you much good if the player is playing at half speed and is taking up a ton of cap space.

[Meatsnack]

Moss seems to have supplanted Cooley as JC's security blanket, though. I think Zorn would be very hesitant to lose that in the offense. Plus, Moss is a natural slot guy, anyway. In a mature offense he could out-Welker Welker.

[urobm]

Yeah, but Moss is pretty clearly dogging it again during games. He has the speed, but that doesn't do you much good if the player is playing at half speed and is taking up a ton of cap space.

Cant argue with you there, too inconsistent.

[Meatsnack]

Yeah, but Moss is pretty clearly dogging it again during games. He has the speed, but that doesn't do you much good if the player is playing at half speed and is taking up a ton of cap space.

I don't know, I see this more as a concentration issue rather than outright dogging it. His attention seems to wander in games. Not a great trait in a #1 receiver, for sure.

[akhhorus]

I don't know, I see this more as a concentration issue rather than outright dogging it. His attention seems to wander in games. Not a great trait in a #1 receiver, for sure.

Thats been a problem of his even when he was great in 2005. But it looks like after one deep route, he's too tired to put too much effort into it for a drive or so. Even when Moss has been good this year, its almost like he's good for one half and invisible for the other.

[Meatsnack]

Thats been a problem of his even when he was great in 2005. But it looks like after one deep route, he's too tired to put too much effort into it for a drive or so. Even when Moss has been good this year, its almost like he's good for one half and invisible for the other.

True, I don't know if we've ever seen 60 minutes of dominant football from the guy. Sadly, even consistent "pretty goodness" would be an improvement. The bomb he dropped vs. Dallass was exactly the kind of ball he does really well, reacting back towards the QB. *sigh* Who knows what mediocrity lurks in the hearts of men?

[Lavar703]

Ralphie May would give us more as a #2 than Randle EL

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I don't think either Moss or ARE will be a redskin after 2009 frankly.

Moss demands double teams every play he is on the field. That, is one of the reasons why Portis is having such a good year (recent injury aside). If we had a #2 who could take some attention away from Moss, Cooley, and Portis, I firmly believe our offense would take off.

As long as he can continue to play well enough to demand double-teams, Moss stays. Not sure what ARE's salary is next year, but I dont think he's worth keeping if it jumps over 3M.

If we go with 5WRs next year, i see our depth chart as follows:

1.Moss
2. Thomas
3. Kelly
4. ARE
5. Thrash

Yes, 3M would be alot to spend on a #4 receiver, but considering how cheap Thomas, Kelly, and Thrash are, i think he would be worth keeping. Plus, receivers often don't "catch on" until their 3rd year anyways and this would give us more time to develop them. I also think ARE would be MUCH more productive in the slot.

On the flip side, if we could trade Moss for a second rounder, I would trade him and keep ARE as our #3 with Thomas and Kelly as the primarys.

[akhhorus]

Moss demands double teams every play he is on the field. That, is one of the reasons why Portis is having such a good year (recent injury aside). If we had a #2 who could take some attention away from Moss, Cooley, and Portis, I firmly believe our offense would take off.

As long as he can continue to play well enough to demand double-teams, Moss stays. Not sure what ARE's salary is next year, but I dont think he's worth keeping if it jumps over 3M.

Not really. He gets some safety help, but the Boys shut him down with Newman on sunday, and Moss usually destroys Newman. Moss has been shut down too much this year by bad secondaries.

[Keino]

Not really. He gets some safety help, but the Boys shut him down with Newman on sunday, and Moss usually destroys Newman. Moss has been shut down too much this year by bad secondaries.

Newman had help over the top, but it was clear he was told to get in Moss' face and stay there.

[silverspring]

I can't help think that we aren't spreading the blame around fairly. There is a lot of pressure on both moss and ARE simply because there aren't any other feasible options. As a result it is easier for defenses to take them out of a game. These guys have shown us inconsistent results, but it coincides with the same inconsistencies that our offense as a whole shows.

In general I think we are asking both ARE and moss to be more then they are. Moss should be a #2 guy. In terms of ARE before we picked him up he was more of a gadget player then a regular receiver. He is a decent #3 WR but we have put him in a much bigger role, just like moss, and he is incapable of consistently filling those shoes. I don't think they are blameless but i also don't think they are bums, but rather we have just made them into something they aren't.

Unfortunately ARE has lost a step and is now useless at returning punts which doesn't help his future with the skins. I would guess we will hold onto both of these guys for one more season, drop thrash and try and give kelly and thomas a more prominent role.

[BurgundyNGold]

In a related story, Devin Thomas couldn't remember the route to his car leaving practice today.

[Death_Venom]

Thats been a problem of his even when he was great in 2005. But it looks like after one deep route, he's too tired to put too much effort into it for a drive or so. Even when Moss has been good this year, its almost like he's good for one half and invisible for the other.

This totally reflects what I see from Moss at game time. Honestly I was hoping Moss had gotten out of his "funk", yet that does **NOT** seem to be the case. ARE on the other hand cant to seem to catch the ball even if you walked up and placed it in his hands....

[jaylen]

In a related story, Devin Thomas couldn't remember the route to his car leaving practice today.

Thats Ice Cold lol

[jaylen]

so we managed to draft the 2 dullest knives in the drawer pass catching options and an injury prone one. gotta love it.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

so we managed to draft the 2 dullest knives in the drawer pass catching options and an injury prone one. gotta love it.

I did see that Hardy can't get on the field for the Bills either, so we're not the only ones.

[AliBabba]

I did see that Hardy can't get on the field for the Bills either, so we're not the only ones.
I was gonna post something about him earlier but decided against it. The fact remains you can't judge receivers this early. Sure would have been nice to get something from one of 'em by now but I def don't hate the picks, not yet at least

[The Iceman]

I just hope we don't see a corps next year that includes Javon Ocho Cinco.

[BSMKF]

Anyone who can catch the ball, would be an upgrade over ARE.

^^Pretty much



I say just put D.Thomas out there and let him play a whole game and lets see what happen.


It can't get much worse.

[The Iceman]

^^Pretty much



I say just put D.Thomas out there and let him play a whole game and lets see what happen.


It can't get much worse.

I agree, let him grow into the role. I guarantee he will remember the route that he runs wrong in the game and the throw gets picked. Just the same way a quarterback learns from mistakes. I say throw him in the fire, if he gets burned you can always pull him out and let him heal up before throwing him back in.

[JasonCampbell]

I get excited seeing such a big, fast WR in a Redskins uniform running routes, unfortunately they aren't the right ones. I have a hard time understanding why a WR can't remember what he is supposed to run. Isn't it just a number he has to listen for? It isn't like he has to remember run plays either, so it's half the offense.

Hopefully next season Davis and Thomas will be up to speed.

[give_portis_the_rock]

^^Pretty much



I say just put D.Thomas out there and let him play a whole game and lets see what happen.


It can't get much worse.

This is exactly what I dont understand about football (and really about sports in general). When the passing game is anemic and resorts to the dink-and-dunk, why don't they give the younger receivers a shot? You don't have much to lose, do you?

I know, I know, Jason might lack chemistry with Thomas or Davis -- but how is he going to form chemistry with them until they PLAY? Put em in the game, see what happens. In the past two weeks, Jason's yards per attempt has fallen from a respectable 7.6 to an average 6.9 -- we obviously have problems in the passing game and sometimes it's good to try something new just for the sake of it.

[skinsfaninva]

I know, I know, Jason might lack chemistry with Thomas or Davis -- but how is he going to form chemistry with them until they PLAY? Put em in the game, see what happens.

EXACTLY. This also pertains to practices as well. First team with first team. How can the #4 receiver and #3 TE get anything going with the starting QB?

If you have a rookie, play him. Don't wait until he is 100% ready. Yes, he is going to make mistakes, but I bet he will also make some plays for you. You have to take some bad to get the good.

[skinsfan36]

the answer is yes simply because he gets open and are does not move him to the slot. we will see kelly this week also.
next years wr will be
moss
thomas
kelly
ARE(make or break)
aroshamadu

[joethefan]

Not really. He gets some safety help, but the Boys shut him down with Newman on sunday, and Moss usually destroys Newman. Moss has been shut down too much this year by bad secondaries.
the boys shut down the passing game with their pass rush...that is what made moss ineffective

[akhhorus]

the boys shut down the passing game with their pass rush...that is what made moss ineffective

To some extent, true. However, they also were able to handcuff Moss on those short slashing routes without much difficultly, which forces us to use deeper drops and made their pass rush that much more important.

[redskin_rich]

the boys shut down the passing game with their pass rush...that is what made moss ineffective
Moss wasn't running full speed either.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

ARE is a much better #2 than Thomas could be. Thomas is still trying to grasp the whole offense. I do think that Thomas should always be in as a #3 and not Thrash who can't stretch anything.

[Death_Venom]

ARE is a much better #2 than Thomas could be. Thomas is still trying to grasp the whole offense. I do think that Thomas should always be in as a #3 and not Thrash who can't stretch anything.

I have to ask-are you stating that ARE has such a surplus of talent that D. Thomas could not ever be as good #2 WR as ARE???

[Ibleedburgundy]

eventually DT should surpass ARE but that hasn't happened yet IMO. Earlier in the year ARE made some pretty clutch third down catches to sustain drives. Don't think DT can be depended on for that just yet.

[Death_Venom]

eventually DT should surpass ARE but that hasn't happened yet IMO. Earlier in the year ARE made some pretty clutch third down catches to sustain drives. Don't think DT can be depended on for that just yet.

I agree totally that at this stage ARE is still a few notches above D. Thomas. HOWEVER ARE really hurts his value to the team by dropping far too many passes......

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

Part of the problem, I believe, is that Thomas essentially plays the same position as Moss (Z receiver or flanker). Kelly was working as the SE or Xreceiver, so his absence hurts the most as Moss is mainly healthy. Thomas wouldn't be a good compliment to Moss in most circumstances. I BELIEVE that is how the WR situation was set up in training camp. Others with more detailed knowledge may correct me or offer more insight.

[smoak]

Not at his price. He's starting to show some signs of wear already, so I don't want a 30+ year old slot receiver at 5-8 mil a year unless the cap is gone.

Agreed, but I thought age has NO bearing on whether or not a player will still be productive??? :D

[firehawk157]

eventually DT should surpass ARE but that hasn't happened yet IMO. Earlier in the year ARE made some pretty clutch third down catches to sustain drives. Don't think DT can be depended on for that just yet.
On the other hand, ARE has dropped some pretty important 3rd down passes. At this point, I think we need Thomas or Kelly as #2 and I don't really care if you have to spend an extra 5 seconds explaining their role to them every play. Just too much physical talent.

[Moe]

Part of the problem, I believe, is that Thomas essentially plays the same position as Moss (Z receiver or flanker). Kelly was working as the SE or Xreceiver, so his absence hurts the most as Moss is mainly healthy. Thomas wouldn't be a good compliment to Moss in most circumstances. I BELIEVE that is how the WR situation was set up in training camp. Others with more detailed knowledge may correct me or offer more insight.


Yes this is correct. Thomas has been working as flanker and that is what his style most closely fits. Kelly would be the split end and then Moss/ARE can be the slot. Moss has enough ability to work in either spot (flanker or SE), but ARE is really best suited for the slot and that's where we see a missing spot. This puts a little more weight on Kelly and what he can bring to the table. If he can play then they can flip the remaining spots amonst Thomas/Moss/ARE with some flexibilty and that will give the D a much less obvious read.

It's also been reported that Kelly is a quality blocker on running plays, something ARE is 'meh' at and Moss tries but his size limits him.

[Battle Cat]

When Campbell starts playing well then Moss and Cooley will magically start playing well again. Campbell started off hot to start the season. This in turn opened things up for Portis. Now teams have some more film on Campbell and Zorn so it is time for them to switch some things up. Dallas just watched the Pittsburgh game film and tried to emulate it. I have always been a Campbell supporter fellow Auburn grad but complaining about this receiver and that one is really not seeing the forrest for the trees. What ever it takes for Campbell to straighten the ship back out will make talk about S Moss, Cooley, D Thomas, ARE, and M Kelley a mute point.

Honestly if Campbell can start playing well again then the defense will be a non story like it was at the beginning of the season even though they have played well every game. Peple will even stop worrying about there being no pass rush. Since the defense is really not giving up any points. If Campbell and Zorn can put up 17 points a game the Redskins bandwagon and happy threads not blame ones will get fired up agian. Thats all we need is 17 points not too much to ask.

[RedskinRyan]

As a playmaker, probably. Thing is, ARE knows where he is supposed to line-up and Thomas still doesn't.....

Ya know.....as long as he knows where to end up.......

If he could provide more, I'm sure Zorn and staff would have figured that out by now. Let Thomas determine his productivity when he's ready. I'm more worried that Malcolm Kelly and Fred Davis are no where.

[RedSkinBrit]

Ya know.....as long as he knows where to end up.......

If he could provide more, I'm sure Zorn and staff would have figured that out by now. Let Thomas determine his productivity when he's ready. I'm more worried that Malcolm Kelly and Fred Davis are no where.


Agree ,we have not had much return yet off our picks when you consider the impact other rookies like desean jackson have had.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

anyway you look at it at this point in my view,ARE,and thrash are better number 2s than thomas and kelly are.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

anyway you look at it at this point in my view,ARE,and thrash are better number 2s than thomas and kelly are.

I don't know. ARE got some time in the slot yesterday and had better production. That would make him the #3. During those times, Kelly was usually playing the #2. ARE could be deadly as the #3 getting a better release off the line and usually drawing less coverage.

[jtovb2005]

Just going by the team going this long waiting and not putting kelly in IR plus a few stories I read about how much they think he can do I think the plan is to have this guy a full time WR (2nd spot). We do need more production from that spot.

[skinsfan36]

i think kelly should be the number 2 and are could be very dangerous in the slot i wish we could run 4 wrs but our oline will not permit that

[SkinsfaninNJ]

i think kelly should be the number 2 and are could be very dangerous in the slot i wish we could run 4 wrs but our oline will not permit that

Our line is like the typical neighborhood bully. We go 4 wide to start and give up two sacks. Campbell had no time to throw and our offense was completely out of sync. Zorn went with more protection and more running and our line starting pushing around Seattle's smaller, quicker front. After doing that long enough, Zorn was able to spread the field again and throw and run out of 4 wides.