The run defense

[cal_junior]

Okay, the Skins have just given up an average of 130 yards on the ground to two middle-of-the-road rushing offenses. Just in time, the No. 1 running team in football (and it's not really close) comes to town on Sunday.

Can any of the Xs and Os experts out there give me a reason to think Washington can do something to limit Jacobs and Ward? Seems to me if the Giants go for 160+ on the ground the Skins are looking at a blowout loss and "Four In A Row Or We Don't Go" time.

Is there hope?

[give_portis_the_rock]

Well there's six more games, so if we lose then it's "five and a row or we dont go" :)

Anyway I think Monty will be coming back for the Giants game, that should help. Basically there's three games this year where teams have been able to run on us (Giants in week 1, Dallas last week, Seattle this week), and we allowed (on average) 15.67 points in each of those games. So regardless of how good the Giants running game is, I'm not worried about that.

I'm worried that we can't score enough points to beat the Giants. I don't think we'll allow any more than 23 (I think it will be in the 13-20 range). But I dont have confidence that we can score more than one touchdown. Maybe we need a deep shot to open things up, I dont know. I'm not an "Xs and Os" guy so maybe I shouldnt be answering.

And a blowout loss? I doubt it. I understand the Giants are the returning champs, and can now be legally called the best team in the league now that the Titans have lost (even though everyone thought that already). But the Skins played their worst game of the season against the Giants, and they lost by 9 points. It won't be a blowout loss. I would be less surprised if we blew THEM out than if they blew us out. Why? Firstly because Sean Taylor is going into the ring of honor. And secondly because the most we have beaten an opponent by this season is 8 points -- we're due to blow someone out.

[Chief Seeway]

Okay, the Skins have just given up an average of 130 yards on the ground to two middle-of-the-road rushing offenses. Just in time, the No. 1 running team in football (and it's not really close) comes to town on Sunday.

Can any of the Xs and Os experts out there give me a reason to think Washington can do something to limit Jacobs and Ward? Seems to me if the Giants go for 160+ on the ground the Skins are looking at a blowout loss and "Four In A Row Or We Don't Go" time.

Is there hope?

Jacobs was scratched and Plaxico left the game with a hammy. If either or both can't play next week it will help (a little) concentrating on stopping the run.

Kind of a reach... it's all I can think of, it will be a tough game to say the least.

[shally]

Jacobs was scratched and Plaxico left the game with a hammy. If either or both can't play next week it will help (a little) concentrating on stopping the run.

Kind of a reach... it's all I can think of, it will be a tough game to say the least.
cleveland beat them.. convincingly.. so, if they take their eyes off the prize and we take it to them, we can beat them..

[nicefellow31]

Okay, the Skins have just given up an average of 130 yards on the ground to two middle-of-the-road rushing offenses. Just in time, the No. 1 running team in football (and it's not really close) comes to town on Sunday.

Can any of the Xs and Os experts out there give me a reason to think Washington can do something to limit Jacobs and Ward? Seems to me if the Giants go for 160+ on the ground the Skins are looking at a blowout loss and "Four In A Row Or We Don't Go" time.

Is there hope?


Well there is always hope, but our guys have to roll up their sleeves and get tough and physical with the G-men. Perhaps we can get some points on the board and take them out of their running game. Big challenge.

[cal_junior]

Well there's six more games, so if we lose then it's "five and a row or we dont go" :)


I don't get it.

[give_portis_the_rock]

I don't get it.

You said four in a row
There's six games left
If we lost to the Giants, it would be five in a row (like in 05), not four

[cal_junior]

You said four in a row
There's six games left
If we lost to the Giants, it would be five in a row (like in 05), not four

Guess I'm still missing the joke. Are you counting a playoff game as one of their remaining games?

The Skins are 7-4. If they lose to the Giants they would be 7-5 and, IMO, need four straight wins to get to 11-5 and get into the playoffs. Maybe 10-6 does it, but 11-5 is a definite.

[give_portis_the_rock]

Guess I'm still missing the joke. Are you counting a playoff game as one of their remaining games?

The Skins are 7-4. If they lose to the Giants they would be 7-5 and, IMO, need four straight wins to get to 11-5 and get into the playoffs. Maybe 10-6 does it, but 11-5 is a definite.

Yeah i'm slow
I was thinking we were 7-3 for some reason
sorry bout that

[bergiemoore]

Okay, the Skins have just given up an average of 130 yards on the ground to two middle-of-the-road rushing offenses. Just in time, the No. 1 running team in football (and it's not really close) comes to town on Sunday.

Can any of the Xs and Os experts out there give me a reason to think Washington can do something to limit Jacobs and Ward? Seems to me if the Giants go for 160+ on the ground the Skins are looking at a blowout loss and "Four In A Row Or We Don't Go" time.

Is there hope?

44 yards came off one play. IMO, if the Skins' defense can limit the big play, then they should be alright, provided the offense can eat up clock like they did in most of their wins this year. The problem with the Dallas game was that the offense was unable to stay on the field for more than 5 downs at a time, and the defense wore down in the 4th.

Getting Monty back will help. Hopefully, Jacobs will be scratched from next week's game as well.

[Patrick]

It not just the run defense ...... it's everything.
Sunday against the Giant, IF BOTH teams have their best performace of the season ...... Skins lose.
I'm VERY concerned about this week's game.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I hate to say it but I think the pukes may have exposed something regarding the run defense. Jacobs might not be the best guy to exploit the edges but the opportunity seems to be there an alarmingly high percentage of the time. It's not a good match up IMO.

Agree with give_portis_the_rock when he indicated we're goint to have to win this game with offense. Hopefully control the clock the way Zorn was doing earlier in the season.

[Biggie]

I think we may need to hold the ball for 38 minutes like we did against the Seahawks to win.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I hate to say it but I think the pukes may have exposed something regarding the run defense. Jacobs might not be the best guy to exploit the edges but the opportunity seems to be there an alarmingly high percentage of the time. It's not a good match up IMO.

Agree with give_portis_the_rock when he indicated we're goint to have to win this game with offense. Hopefully control the clock the way Zorn was doing earlier in the season.

I think this is true for two different reasons. One will be negated by Monty's return. First, we are obviously small on the edges, but a team cannot be successful running exclusively to the edges all day. Because our DT's are constantly chasing the edges, they tire quickly, which leaves them vulnerable in the middle and makes Fletcher's life more difficult. Monty's return will keep the guys fresher which should make us stout up the middle again. Greater strength up the middle should improve the edges because Fletcher should be able to get a quicker release.

I don't think it is a coincidence that Fletcher's play has dropped as our best DT sits on the bench.

[Keino]

For a team unconcerned about the pass rush because in the words of the D Coordinator we are a "Stop the run first" defensive ball-club, we seem to be giving up a lot of rushing yards if that especially if that is out first priority......

[BurgundyNGold]

I think we may need to hold the ball for 38 minutes like we did against the Seahawks to win.
Bingo. The easiest way to not get run on is to not let the opposing offense have the ball. The second easiest way is to get up big early to make the opposing offense one dimensional. I'm not holding my breath on the latter, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

For a team unconcerned about the pass rush because in the words of the D Coordinator we are a "Stop the run first" defensive ball-club, we seem to be giving up a lot of rushing yards if that especially if that is out first priority......
For the second straight week, our DT largely got manhandled and Blache decided to play Fletcher off the LOS in middle zone a good deal. Couple that with a lot of base nickel and you're looking at a defense that is susceptible to the run.

[Hrabanmaur]

I think we used more nickel packages against the Pukes and the Seahawks b/c we feared their QBs more than their RBs (in the case of the Pukes I think this was a mistake). This makes sense, too, b/c our secondary now has way more talent than our LB corps. I don't think it's time to panic about our run defense yet. I'd imagine they'll scheme differently for the Giants.

I'm more concerned with all the injuries to our D-line, and I'll feel much better if we can get a healthy Montgomery back.

[shally]

I think we used more nickel packages against the Pukes and the Seahawks b/c we feared their QBs more than their RBs (in the case of the Pukes I think this was a mistake). This makes sense, too, b/c our secondary now has way more talent than our LB corps. I don't think it's time to panic about our run defense yet. I'd imagine they'll scheme differently for the Giants.

I'm more concerned with all the injuries to our D-line, and I'll feel much better if we can get a healthy Montgomery back.

boschetti on line 2....................................lol

[Hrabanmaur]

boschetti on line 2....................................lol

<cringe> I'd rather see Chad Rhinehart playing DT.

[Moe]

The Skins missed a lot of tackles yesterday right at the LOS and on one of Morris's big gains Fletcher undercut the lane. But as others said, outside of the 2-3 big gains they did pretty well.

Facing the Giants is a whole 'nother ball of wax though and with some of the injuries sustained yesterday that likely won't help things. They need to wrap up and stay disciplined first off, but even thier line makes most run D's look bad. It did seem to me that having Taylor off the line and in space was a good move. He was in on a lot of tackles and much more involved in the overall play. With all of the injuries they might have to continue doing this, or move him to the right-side if Carter can't go.

[shally]

<cringe> I'd rather see Chad Rhinehart playing DT.


neither james nor jackson have been active recently.. wonder if that changes due to injuries ? if not, it really says something

[BurgundyNGold]

Another thing that's interesting is since Jason Taylor and his light frame cam back, teams have been running at him big time. Neither he nor Andre Carter are much against the direct run and it's beginning to show. Jason Taylor weighs exactly the same as Marcus Washington (244 lbs). If having Marcus Washington play DE on running downs in years past was a liability, I fail to see how or why we should expect much different from Jason Taylor.

Whether you like the Taylor trade or not, having him in as RDE full time is a liability. We're better off starting Demetric Evans (who has 3.5 sacks to Taylor's 1.0, BTW) and just play Taylor on passing downs.

[Moe]

neither james nor jackson have been active recently.. wonder if that changes due to injuries ? if not, it really says something

It'll be interesting to see what they do this week in light of the injuries, Carter's in particular. I can't see how he could reasonably play that soon with a partially torn plantar facia, but I guess we'll see. If he's out then logically it'd seem to make sense to move Taylor to RDE and start Evans at LDE. But the dings at DT mean Evans will likely have to move inside more readily, so do they insert Wilson (run target), Jackson (maybe the best option) or James (question mark)?

[Moe]

Another thing that's interesting is since Jason Taylor and his light frame cam back, teams have been running at him big time. Neither he nor Andre Carter are much against the direct run and it's beginning to show. Jason Taylor weighs exactly the same as Marcus Washington (244 lbs). If having Marcus Washington play DE on running downs in years past was a liability, I fail to see how or why we should expect much different from Jason Taylor.

Whether you like the Taylor trade or not, having him in as RDE full time is a liability. We're better off starting Demetric Evans (who has 3.5 sacks to Taylor's 1.0, BTW) and just play Taylor on passing downs.

I liked seeing him in space and off the line yesterday; from my perspective he seemed more active and involved and I have to think that the lineman keep an eye on him when he's flashing around like that pre-snap. I do think his limitations against the run stand out especially against a line as good as the Giants. It would appear that injuries will speak in large part to what role he has this week.

[guess88]

It'll be interesting to see what they do this week in light of the injuries, Carter's in particular. I can't see how he could reasonably play that soon with a partially torn plantar facia, but I guess we'll see. If he's out then logically it'd seem to make sense to move Taylor to RDE and start Evans at LDE. But the dings at DT mean Evans will likely have to move inside more readily, so do they insert Wilson (run target), Jackson (maybe the best option) or James (question mark)?

Gah, is that the prognosis on Carter? I've had that... it's very very painful, and you can't put weight on the heel. Technically you can still run (as long as you stay on the balls of your feet), but you need your heels for DE. If he's out, are we looking at Evans and Taylor starting opposing ends?

[skinsfan36]

theres two problems with the run d.
the ends not getting good leverage on sweep,tosses.
and monty is out. you dont know what you have until its not there in his case.
did golston get benched?

[BurgundyNGold]

theres two problems with the run d.
the ends not getting good leverage on sweep,tosses.
and monty is out. you dont know what you have until its not there in his case.
did golston get benched?
This is entirely correct. The DE are getting swept along on wide runs and the DT are getting collapsed on interior runs, providing no cover for an undersized Fletcher. Usually in a 4-3, you try to funnel runners inside to your help, specifically the MLB. Our MLB is 5-10 yards downfield on most plays, either because he is setting up back there (because of no DT cover) or because he is ending up back there (because of no DT cover).

[silverspring]

Clearly our defense does allow these long drives to develop but it seems to be working as planned. It can be frustrating to watch, but in the end it seems to work out, we are consistently keeping the score low. I did notice Blache seemed to be calling some more blitzes yesterday though.

I would really advocate giving fincher some reps on the strong side. Blades is doing ok but he is more suited to the mlb position. Fincher was a monster in pre-season, lets give him some more opportunities.

Stopping the run has been a problem the last two weeks, i think part of it can be attributed to the lack of montgomery in the rotation. Also griffin is hurting like usual and golston was hurt yesterday. The other part is that playing jason taylor at left end creates a mismatch. He gets blocked out too easily. Yesterday he lined up at linebacker a lot and still seemed to be victimized a bit on the run. When carter got hurt yesterday i tried to stay optimistic and think of it as an opportunity for taylor to do his thing on the right side, but he wasn't any more effective. I wonder if we couldn't use lorenzo alexender more as a run stopper. I also would be interested in seeing guys like james and jackson getting activated and getting some more shots at rushing the passer and then just using taylor on passing downs.

Of course injuries might dictate how we proceed. If carter is injured taylor can just play RDE and then we can get some kind of rotation going on the left side with evans and james and jackson. I just hope this fletcher injury isn't a big deal, that guy is so important to our defense.

[Ibleedburgundy]

The defense has been great as a whole, but there is a pattern here. I haven't really taken the time to watch tape but is Blache doing something different with a lead that he doesn't do at other times?

[skinsfan36]

not about run defense but evrytime we play cover 1 the rb is wide open this has been a problem since the philly game. its gettin irritating

[Meatsnack]

If we get Monty back to spell Griff, we should be a lot better vs. the run (assuming Fletcher is able to go close to his normal self). Monty will keep guards off the Mike. Ironically, these toss sweeps are exactly the kind of plays Phillip Daniels kept from happening. Who knew we would miss him so soon?

I think we may see JT playing RDE with Evans starting at LDE. That would shore-up the run and probably help the pass rush as well. If we don't have to blow-up the LB corp to look like Fincher - Blades - McIntosh, we should be able to manage the Vagiants in the run game.

[shally]

jasno has talked about the skins adding a player to the DL this week

Boschetti was said to be out at the park today..maybe James gets cut or goes on IR ?
Jackson cut ? (i sure hope not)

other guys who might be a possible i can think of are veterans
K vonOelhoffen and Marcus Tubbs.. or maybe a younger player from someones PS ??

[skinsfan36]

jasno has talked about the skins adding a player to the DL this week

Boschetti was said to be out at the park today..maybe James gets cut or goes on IR ?
Jackson cut ? (i sure hope not)

other guys who might be a possible i can think of are veterans
K vonOelhoffen and Marcus Tubbs.. or maybe a younger player from someones PS ??

would of been nice to pick of tubbs imo

[shally]

would of been nice to pick of tubbs imo

i agree.. but boschetti is not likely to bring very much of either a pass rush or run stopping.
the good thing is that he has fresh legs. further he can play both inside and outside like evans.. we will see if he has anything to contribute.. if he is not active this weekend i will be both surprised and disappointed-- after all, why signing to remain inactive when jackson and james have that role down pat by now...lol

[NamVet4]

A lot of speculation and a lot of common sense about the Defense and its problems. But it's beginning to sound like a broken record when we all agree that the Offense has to score more! It's about time in the season, IMHO, for the WCO to start paying off in TOP and TD's. When our Beloved Team hits the red zone, three ain't enough!!!!!

[skinsfan36]

i agree.. but boschetti is not likely to bring very much of either a pass rush or run stopping.
the good thing is that he has fresh legs. further he can play both inside and outside like evans.. we will see if he has anything to contribute.. if he is not active this weekend i will be both surprised and disappointed-- after all, why signing to remain inactive when jackson and james have that role down pat by now...lol

james appears to be blah,but id love to see jackson play some as he held up well vs dallas in week 4