The Problems With This Offense

[Biggie]

I know there are going to be a lot of threads started tonight about this game, but I'd like to start a discussion as to what, specifically, is wrong with this offense. Looking at what they did today, the Redskins had:
320 yards, with 64 coming on a garbage drive at the end of the game.
24:16 of possession.
Four three-and-outs and one four-and-out.
92 yards rushing, with 38 of them coming from Campbell and 29 from Devin Thomas.
Portis getting 22 yards on 11 carries.
39 passes to 18 rushes, with five of those rushes being scrambles by Campbell.
I don't even know how many dropped passes.It's obvious that this offense is a two-trick pony between Portis and Moss, and when both of them get shut down, the offense stalls completely. Cooley had a good game, but that's about it. Pass protection has been an issue too - JC got sacked four times.

Looking back on the great Redskins offenses of Gibbs I, what made them so good? Outside of a great offensive line, they had two receivers in Monk and Clark that filled the roles of a consistent, productive possession receiver and a deep threat, right? Correct me if I'm wrong here (I was born in '89), but Monk came up with clutch catches, right? Does Moss come up with clutch catches? Sometimes, maybe. Does ARE? I remember him catching that pass on 3rd and 8 and thinking what a rare thing it was for that to happen. People can rip on JC all they want, but outside of Cooley, what receiver does he have to throw to that can catch the ball even nine times out of ten? How is he supposed to get into a rhythm and get the ball moving if Thrash drops a first down, ARE drops a first down, Kelly drops a first down, and on and on and on?

Look at the Giants' receivers. Manning hit guys with pinpoint accuracy and they held on to the damn ball. Jason made some of those same throws and they bounced off of the WRs' hands/chests. Ridiculous. The Giants knew that if they stopped Portis, the Redskins wouldn't step up in the passing game, and they were right. Portis did nothing and neither could Campbell and Co. The offensive line not being able to open any holes, especially on that 4th and 1, couldn't have helped either.

Alright, so that was a bit of a rant, but what do you guys think needs to change with this offense? I think we need better play out of our wide receivers and offensive linemen for the most part (not saying that these players are going to be the ones who play better), and probably better playcalling out of Zorn too (although I give a rookie head coach that wasn't even a coordinator before this a little bit more of a grace period than I do guys like Thrash and ARE). Hopefully 6'4 Kelly and 6'2 Thomas can become even a shadow of Monk and Clark, because the Smurfs are showing that they've about tapped out their potential.

[ARParr]

well, ironically, you mentioned the very same 3 major points i just made in another thread, which are:

1. we need a younger, better offensive line
2. we need a core of quality receivers
3. we need more imaginative play calling

in my amateur, humble opinion, that's pretty much what it boils down to. portis can run well, and would stay much more healthy, if he weren't the only horse in the parade. moss would be much tougher to stop if we had other receivers who actually could pose a consistent threat. if the opposing defense only has to worry about covering two players, it makes their job much, much easier.

i think that you and i are pretty much in perfect agreement. fix the three things listed above, and we'll pretty much be a completely different team offensively.

right now, we just are unable to score enough points to win against good, much less great, teams.

[shally]

I know there are going to be a lot of threads started tonight about this game, but I'd like to start a discussion as to what, specifically, is wrong with this offense. Looking at what they did today, the Redskins had:
320 yards, with 64 coming on a garbage drive at the end of the game.
24:16 of possession.
Four three-and-outs and one four-and-out.
92 yards rushing, with 38 of them coming from Campbell and 29 from Devin Thomas.
Portis getting 22 yards on 11 carries.
39 passes to 18 rushes, with five of those rushes being scrambles by Campbell.
I don't even know how many dropped passes.It's obvious that this offense is a two-trick pony between Portis and Moss, and when both of them get shut down, the offense stalls completely. Cooley had a good game, but that's about it. Pass protection has been an issue too - JC got sacked four times.

Looking back on the great Redskins offenses of Gibbs I, what made them so good? Outside of a great offensive line, they had two receivers in Monk and Clark that filled the roles of a consistent, productive possession receiver and a deep threat, right? Correct me if I'm wrong here (I was born in '89), but Monk came up with clutch catches, right? Does Moss come up with clutch catches? Sometimes, maybe. Does ARE? I remember him catching that pass on 3rd and 8 and thinking what a rare thing it was for that to happen. People can rip on JC all they want, but outside of Cooley, what receiver does he have to throw to that can catch the ball even nine times out of ten? How is he supposed to get into a rhythm and get the ball moving if Thrash drops a first down, ARE drops a first down, Kelly drops a first down, and on and on and on?

Look at the Giants' receivers. Manning hit guys with pinpoint accuracy and they held on to the damn ball. Jason made some of those same throws and they bounced off of the WRs' hands/chests. Ridiculous. The Giants knew that if they stopped Portis, the Redskins wouldn't step up in the passing game, and they were right. Portis did nothing and neither could Campbell and Co. The offensive line not being able to open any holes, especially on that 4th and 1, couldn't have helped either.

Alright, so that was a bit of a rant, but what do you guys think needs to change with this offense? I think we need better play out of our wide receivers and offensive linemen for the most part (not saying that these players are going to be the ones who play better), and probably better playcalling out of Zorn too (although I give a rookie head coach that wasn't even a coordinator before this a little bit more of a grace period than I do guys like Thrash and ARE). Hopefully 6'4 Kelly and 6'2 Thomas can become even a shadow of Monk and Clark, because the Smurfs are showing that they've about tapped out their potential.

not only that, manning was missing his best receiver and it made no difference.. hixon tore apart the skins schemes. smith and toomer (who likely will be replaced this offseason) were open constantly. ward ripped our defense constantly. boss was a md round pick playing behind a probowler last year.. now he is a weapon..

[GibbsFan]

The problem with our offense starts up front. We like to think we have a big, physical Oline that wears other teams out. The truth is we are slow and old with not much push against even the weakest in the league. Pass protection is our weak link, and are often pushed around.

We should be getting our young WR's involved with deeper routes, and some underneath hot routes when needed.

Lastly, we are becoming too predictable. Throw the ball on 1st down more please.

[zozza8]

1. we need a younger, better offensive line
2. we need a core of quality receivers
3. we need more imaginative play calling



Exactly. Poor offensive line, waaayy too many dropped passes and dull play calling.

[GenMgr]

At this time the only major shakeup that could occur is a change at QB but that isn't likely since the Front Office is evaluating Campbell to decide whether to give him an extension.

[Nomad]

1. Old O-line. Only the draft can address this, but we have only 4 picks this year. I once again point to the Dolphins. They rebuilt the trenches and QB first. We always build everything but the lines. We could easily have drafted OL & DL instead of a punter, CB, and 2 WRs, TE.

2. WRs. Won't know until next year how Kelly & Thomas are going to pan out. We need someone who is a threat opposite Moss to open the O up.

3. Campbell. Wasn't as bad as looked recently, or as good as looked earlier in season. More time in O will improve, or bust?

4. I still say our main problem is a general philosophy of not keeping lots of picks and stocking roster with younger players. Exhibit A, Giants. At DL, RB, WR, TE they have shown remarkable depth. The real answer is several years of drafts with 7-10 picks, and the realization that we aren't 2 players from being a SB team. That means choosing young players with upside over veterans in decline and taking a long term perspective. Like several practice squad players signed by other teams who maybe should have been on roster in place of dinosaurs. I don't know if Snyder is capable of that. Cerrato obviously isn't.

Still, it isn't all doom and gloom. The Giants are the best team in football. We have a had a good but not great season. We are exactly what pundits thought we were--a lower tier wildcard team.

[shally]

1. Old O-line. Only the draft can address this, but we have only 4 picks this year. I once again point to the Dolphins. They rebuilt the trenches and QB first. We always build everything but the lines. We could easily have drafted OL & DL instead of a punter, CB, and 2 WRs, TE.

2. WRs. Won't know until next year how Kelly & Thomas are going to pan out. We need someone who is a threat opposite Moss to open the O up.

3. Campbell. Wasn't as bad as looked recently, or as good as looked earlier in season. More time in O will improve, or bust?

4. I still say our main problem is a general philosophy of not keeping lots of picks and stocking roster with younger players. Exhibit A, Giants. At DL, RB, WR, TE they have shown remarkable depth. The real answer is several years of drafts with 7-10 picks, and the realization that we aren't 2 players from being a SB team. That means choosing young players with upside over veterans in decline and taking a long term perspective. Like several practice squad players signed by other teams who maybe should have been on roster in place of dinosaurs. I don't know if Snyder is capable of that. Cerrato obviously isn't.

Still, it isn't all doom and gloom. The Giants are the best team in football. We have a had a good but not great season. We are exactly what pundits thought we were--a lower tier wildcard team.

giants o line

snee-- best player.. second rounder
diehl-- solid tackle.. 5th rounder
ohara-- solid center-- free agent (cleveland)
mckenzie-- solid tackle-- free agent (jets)
seubert -- solid guard -- free agent (college)

sometimes you get lucky. more often solid personnel work is the answer..

[sinskin]

When we won the SB with Rypien.... he got sacked a total of 8 times I believe the entire season. (correct me if I am wrong here) Gibb's was quoted as saying "Give me any of the top 50 QB's with that Oline and we still win the SB". That said, this Oline is a not even in the same galaxy as that one.

Yes, Moss imo is a good #2 WR. Thats it. Nothing behind him as far as anyone getting the job done. Cooley is a great TE. But hes a TE lol. I see R. Moss and TO catching balls one handed with ease and we cant use 2. The WR corp. here is below avg. Hopefully the rookies help in the next couple of years, but not this year. Thiesman wasn't a ridiculously great QB by any means but he mangaed games extremely well. And like mentioned before the WR's he had were consistent and with the game on the line spot on.

IMO it doesnt matter how imaginative the offense is. If you execute the plays properly they will work no matter what is called. Gibbs called that one run play over and over and over again because noone could stop it. The defense knew it was coming, but couldnt do anything about it.

EXECUTION. We dont execute.

[nicefellow31]

1. Old O-line. Only the draft can address this, but we have only 4 picks this year. I once again point to the Dolphins. They rebuilt the trenches and QB first. We always build everything but the lines. We could easily have drafted OL & DL instead of a punter, CB, and 2 WRs, TE.

2. WRs. Won't know until next year how Kelly & Thomas are going to pan out. We need someone who is a threat opposite Moss to open the O up.

3. Campbell. Wasn't as bad as looked recently, or as good as looked earlier in season. More time in O will improve, or bust?

4. I still say our main problem is a general philosophy of not keeping lots of picks and stocking roster with younger players. Exhibit A, Giants. At DL, RB, WR, TE they have shown remarkable depth. The real answer is several years of drafts with 7-10 picks, and the realization that we aren't 2 players from being a SB team. That means choosing young players with upside over veterans in decline and taking a long term perspective. Like several practice squad players signed by other teams who maybe should have been on roster in place of dinosaurs. I don't know if Snyder is capable of that. Cerrato obviously isn't.

Still, it isn't all doom and gloom. The Giants are the best team in football. We have a had a good but not great season. We are exactly what pundits thought we were--a lower tier wildcard team.

yeah the Giants had a highly productive draft last year. A guy like Thrash shouldn't be on the field with the offense. But because Kelly and Thomas have given us nothing, he has to play.

[fpickering]

OL Starters from Left to Right:
60 Samuels, Chris OT 6-5 317 9 07-28-1977
77 Thomas, Randy OG 6-5 317 10 01-19-1976
61 Rabach, Casey C 6-4 296 7 09-24-1977
66 Kendall, Pete OG 6-5 292 13 07-09-1973
76 Jansen, Jon OT 6'6'' 297 10 01-28-1976

Current Reserves:
69 Fabini, Jason OL 6'7'' 309 11 08-25-1974
68 Geisinger, Justin OG 6-4 315 3 05-24-1982
74 Heyer, Stephon OL 6-6 325 2 01-16-1984
75 Rinehart, Chad OL 6-5 311 R 05-04-1985

Looking at this, it is pretty obvious that we have a lot of work to do. Depending on Heyer's ability to stay healthy and his development along with Rinehart's we could potentially need a minimum of 2 new guys. We wasted more draft picks on yet another vet in decline so we may have to look to free agency..

[cal_junior]

and dull play calling.

I've heard this from a number of folks already and I'm not buying it. This team's problem is execution. Period.

[shally]

OL Starters from Left to Right:
60 Samuels, Chris OT 6-5 317 9 07-28-1977
77 Thomas, Randy OG 6-5 317 10 01-19-1976
61 Rabach, Casey C 6-4 296 7 09-24-1977
66 Kendall, Pete OG 6-5 292 13 07-09-1973
76 Jansen, Jon OT 6'6'' 297 10 01-28-1976

Current Reserves:
69 Fabini, Jason OL 6'7'' 309 11 08-25-1974
68 Geisinger, Justin OG 6-4 315 3 05-24-1982
74 Heyer, Stephon OL 6-6 325 2 01-16-1984
75 Rinehart, Chad OL 6-5 311 R 05-04-1985

Looking at this, it is pretty obvious that we have a lot of work to do. Depending on Heyer's ability to stay healthy and his development along with Rinehart's we could potentially need a minimum of 2 new guys. We wasted more draft picks on yet another vet in decline so we may have to look to free agency..

again.. didnt hurt the giants to go that route...if buges is SO good he should be able to make it happen..

[shally]

I've heard this from a number of folks already and I'm not buying it. This team's problem is execution. Period.


you are completely correct..penalties.. missed assignments.. poor execution..MENTAL ERRORS (see jansen), lack of discipline and focus..

[ARParr]

i should say that although i've been one of the ones to mention the need for better play calling, i'll take better execution in a heartbeat. the best play calling in the world is completely useless if you don't have a squad which is able to consistently execute the plan.

hear hear.

[NCskinsfanatic]

again.. didnt hurt the giants to go that route...if buges is SO good he should be able to make it happen..

Yep Im fine with adding atleast one FA on both lines rather than depending soley on the draft. Infact I think we could find a versatile OL and a DT that can demand double teams in the free agent market, maybe even the vet WR needed to push the rookies and be a possession guy. This should be our goal, no way we take the next step with just our draft picks...even if we trade out of the 1st round and acquire two more picks.

[Death_Venom]

Yep Im fine with adding atleast one FA on both lines rather than depending soley on the draft. Infact I think we could find a versatile OL and a DT that can demand double teams in the free agent market, maybe even the vet WR needed to push the rookies and be a possession guy. This should be our goal, no way we take the next step with just our draft picks...even if we trade out of the 1st round and acquire two more picks.

That and I think we need to package ARE and possibly Jansen and see what we could get in a trade for a more reliable WR or DT.

[NCskinsfanatic]

That and I think we need to package ARE and possibly Jansen and see what we could get in a trade for a more reliable WR or DT.

I dont think we can trade Jansen its either keep him or cut him, with his salary and film of him this season who'd want him?

[Death_Venom]

I dont think we can trade Jansen its either keep him or cut him, with his salary and film of him this season who'd want him?

People thought the same of Derrick Dockery......

[hogskins]

People thought the same of Derrick Dockery......

Dockery was a young free-agent with some upside who eventually got near record OG money from the Bills (?).

Anyone know what kind year Dockery is having? Better than Pete Kendall's?

I guess Jansen doesn't have any more downside, but he becomes Fabini if he goes elsewhere.

[NCskinsfanatic]

People thought the same of Derrick Dockery......

Yeah Dockery was young and pretty good, dont think you can compare him to Jansen. And he was signed by Buffalo not traded, so i dont know how that example is the same as trading an over-priced ageing vet RT that cant pass pro.

[Death_Venom]

Yeah Dockery was young and pretty good, dont think you can compare him to Jansen. And he was signed by Buffalo not traded, so i dont know how that example is the same as trading an over-priced ageing vet RT that cant pass pro.

I was comparing them in terms of ability. Most of the Skins fans did not really care for Dockery-but apparently other teams thought better of him than we did. Same goes for Jansen-other teams may view him differently and I see no reason why would not shop him or ARE around......Both have have been flops-.........I think Jansens' recent flop status is more due to recent accumlation of injuries in seasons past......

[hail2skins]

I've heard this from a number of folks already and I'm not buying it. This team's problem is execution. Period.I didn't think the playcalling was as rythmic as I've seen from Zorn before. I had some issues with some of his calls today. Yeah, execution is a huge part of it but he has to keep the rythm with the calls and I don't think he did it today.

As for problems with this offense, we don't max protect and teams know it. When they see 4 receiver sets, even though one is a TE, they send delayed blitzes at us.

Also, IMO, Jansen is a liability in pass protection. I saw him get manhandled on several plays.

I also don't think we take advantage of creating mismatches. Get Moss in the slot where he can create mismatches. Start him wide and then motion him inside.

I called for a reverse early in the game because I thought it would be successful based on NY's agreesive attack, well it eventually came and was successful. We were successful on most of our misdirection plays but didn't do enough of it.

I could go on and on but I'm not.

[shally]

I dont think we can trade Jansen its either keep him or cut him, with his salary and film of him this season who'd want him?

jansen has no value in trade.. that is for certain...

[JasonCampbell]

jansen has no value in trade.. that is for certain...

You think he'd restructure and get a more reasonable cap number? I can't imagine many teams seeing tape of him this year and wanting to slot him into a starting spot.

I wouldn't mind having him back next year, but purely as a backup and paid as such.

[shally]

I didn't think the playcalling was as rythmic as I've seen from Zorn before. I had some issues with some of his calls today. Yeah, execution is a huge part of it but he has to keep the rythm with the calls and I don't think he did it today.

As for problems with this offense, we don't max protect and teams know it. When they see 4 receiver sets, even though one is a TE, they send delayed blitzes at us.

Also, IMO, Jansen is a liability in pass protection. I saw him get manhandled on several plays.

I also don't think we take advantage of creating mismatches. Get Moss in the slot where he can create mismatches. Start him wide and then motion him inside.

I called for a reverse early in the game because I thought it would be successful based on NY's agreesive attack, well it eventually came and was successful. We were successful on most of our misdirection plays but didn't do enough of it.

I could go on and on but I'm not.

i would totally agree with you that, except for flashes, the offensive scheme and play calls seemed disjointed and lacking any consistent pattern.

of course, i thought that campbell really struggled today

i also thought that gilbride outcoached blache and spags had zorn's number.. sure, they had the better players, but eli and gilbride were always one play call ahead of blache. i never was that impressed with gilbride before this, but he really impressed me today. he and eli were totally in sync

oh, and jansen's days as an effective right tackle are over.. his mental error on the 4th down play that got portis stuffed was inexcusable for someone with his experience.. he has to go...

[shally]

You think he'd restructure and get a more reasonable cap number? I can't imagine many teams seeing tape of him this year and wanting to slot him into a starting spot.

I wouldn't mind having him back next year, but purely as a backup and paid as such.

he is very prideful.. i dont see him doing a "wade" and testing the waters and if no one offers him starter money, returning here..they will cut him because i seriously doubt he will do as brunell and take one to remain with the team..

i also think it is important for heyer to know from here on out that the job is his as soon as he is healthy.. if he is not good enough to play the position, they need to let him know that and move on but you cant have him looking over his shoulder

[NCskinsfanatic]

I was comparing them in terms of ability. Most of the Skins fans did not really care for Dockery-but apparently other teams thought better of him than we did. Same goes for Jansen-other teams may view him differently and I see no reason why would not shop him or ARE around......Both have have been flops-.........I think Jansens' recent flop status is more due to recent accumlation of injuries in seasons past......

Ok i see what you're saying..I still think Dockery was more talented then than Jansen is now. I guess it couldnt hurt but I dont see the chances of trading either of those guys as very good. I dont think theres a market for Jansen with his age and contract and El would be a good slot WR if we ever found a number 2 guy. He's obviously overpaid either way but he has value just 3rd wr value which again wont bring much in a trade, especially when hes paid as well or better than most number 2 guys.

[JasonCampbell]

i also think it is important for heyer to know from here on out that the job is his as soon as he is healthy.. if he is not good enough to play the position, they need to let him know that and move on but you cant have him looking over his shoulder

I agree, but hasn't he been healthy for weeks now? I think it is kind of bogus that Jansen lost it to do performance, Heyer loses it to injury, then Jansen plays 3 good games, sucks the rest and Heyer isn't brought back into the picture.

I really want to see if JC would play better with a better pass protection OL and Jansen isn't bringing that.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Lastly, we are becoming too predictable. Throw the ball on 1st down more please.
Thats a huge point for me. I was sitting at the game calling half of our plays before they happened, and I'm a chick, so why wouldn't the opposing defense be able to do the same? We seem to only pickup 0, 1 or 3 yards on 1st down and end up having a ton of 3rd & longs, making it harder to convert. So frustrating....:banghead:

[shally]

Thats a huge point for me. I was sitting at the game calling half of our plays before they happened, and I'm a chick, so why wouldn't the opposing defense be able to do the same? We seem to only pickup 0, 1 or 3 yards on 1st down and end up having a ton of 3rd & longs, making it harder to convert. So frustrating....:banghead:

that has been a constant for the last 5 years through gibbs and now zorn

did you catch how many times eli threw on first down ? gilbride had a masterful plan.. they basically said, okay, stop the run and we are going to beat you via the pass.. they did

eli was really impressive with his throws.. pretty good when a #4 receiver like hixson can have the kind of hands and overall day he had...

[skinsfan36]

the line is old, the qb is scared to throw downfield ,the playcalling is headscratching,and the young wrs arent primetime yet

[shally]

the line is old, the qb is scared to throw downfield ,the playcalling is headscratching,and the young wrs arent primetime yet

hmmm.. that about sums it up...lol

[NCskinsfanatic]

the line is old, the qb is scared to throw downfield ,the playcalling is headscratching,and the young wrs arent primetime yet

I agree with this, but I dont think JC is scared to throw downfield, he's just scared to throw ints...which happens when he throws downfield lol.

[akhhorus]

The problem with this team is that since the opposing defenses have zero fear of Moss, ARE and Cooley, they send more blitzers against an Oline that struggles to contain a normal 4 man pass rush.

[Dolla Bill]

Personally I think its a shame that the fans have more fire and passion than the players do.

[LATrueRedskin]

I think the problem is the offensive line. Samuels has not been playing up to his stellar standard, Rabach is too small and collapses the pocket, and Jansen can't seem to block anybody.

[Death_Venom]

Thats a huge point for me. I was sitting at the game calling half of our plays before they happened, and I'm a chick, so why wouldn't the opposing defense be able to do the same? We seem to only pickup 0, 1 or 3 yards on 1st down and end up having a ton of 3rd & longs, making it harder to convert. So frustrating....:banghead:

Come on now-it aint that hard.......Pass.......Run.......Pass.....:)

[Emmanouel8]

This offense has a lot of fundamental problems considering its production is so limited even against bad teams or teams that are down for the count.

The OL is old and is mediocre in pass protection. The FO waited too long too inject youth and purge out a few vets. It will need a major overhaul this offseason. Rhinehart and Heyer should be starting IMO.

QB is not very effective and streaky, also indecisive.

Coaching is limited with what they want to use and how they want to use them. WHere's Sellers? He shoulod be getting a few touches each game and has as of late but he could have helped more today.

[shally]

I think the problem is the offensive line. Samuels has not been playing up to his stellar standard, Rabach is too small and collapses the pocket, and Jansen can't seem to block anybody.

that is a large part of it for certain.. but the receivers have issues.. JC has issues.. and zorn's playcalling has issues

teams are going to crowd the line and take away the run and the short stuff until we beat them long and make them pay for it.. we havent done any of that for quite some time.

during the game i heard a stat that the redskins had fewer plays over 20 yards than any team in the nfl.. we dont have the worst offensive line in the nfl, i dont believe, that spreads the blame around to the entire offensive squad and the coaches.

zorns sees what the defenses are doing to him, and yet, on drive after drive we start out with portis running left or right.. teams have caught up to him.

[nicefellow31]

I was comparing them in terms of ability. Most of the Skins fans did not really care for Dockery-but apparently other teams thought better of him than we did. Same goes for Jansen-other teams may view him differently and I see no reason why would not shop him or ARE around......Both have have been flops-.........I think Jansens' recent flop status is more due to recent accumlation of injuries in seasons past......

I don't know about that. Jansen may be at the end of the road at a OT. I wonder if he could play G or C. I remember Parcells got in trouble because he told a reporter that in watching video, he noticed that Jansen's playing ability had slipped. And that was two season ago.

[shally]

I don't know about that. Jansen may be at the end of the road at a OT. I wonder if he could play G or C. I remember Parcells got in trouble because he told a reporter that in watching video, he noticed that Jansen's playing ability had slipped. And that was two season ago.

yeah.. say what you want about Tuna, he is a pretty good judge of talent

[skinsfan36]

what is everyones opinion on moving rabach to guard and drafting alex mack

[Biggie]

what is everyones opinion on moving rabach to guard and drafting alex mack
If you're talking about replacing Kendall with Rabach, I think they both need to go. If they could pull it off, I'd say the Redskins would need three new starters on the O-line next year, and two of them are (hopefully) on the team.

[shally]

If you're talking about replacing Kendall with Rabach, I think they both need to go. If they could pull it off, I'd say the Redskins would need three new starters on the O-line next year, and two of them are (hopefully) on the team.

rabach is too small for the center position.. that would be even more problematic at guard..

[Meatsnack]

For me, this was the first game Jansen looked completely useless. He wasn't getting push in the run game and looked confused in the pass game. When a 10-year veteran looks confused it is because his body has broken down so much that the ways he has been compensating are getting him beat. It is sadly time for Jon to go.

It is too bad that we were never able to put a good team around him when he was at the top of his game. We used to complain that Jon got shafted every year because he was the best ORT in the game. Between the vote being for OT in the Pro Bowl balloting, not OLT and ORT and our records being bad season after season, he never got any pub.

Enjoy the hunting in the UP, Jon.

[Meatsnack]

If you're talking about replacing Kendall with Rabach, I think they both need to go. If they could pull it off, I'd say the Redskins would need three new starters on the O-line next year, and two of them are (hopefully) on the team.

Yeah, hopefully Heyer is the real deal at ORT. Reinhart should be able to step in for Pete Kendall. If we follow my unsinkable (it worked for the Bismarck!) draft advice and draft Alex Mack, we should be able to buy enough time to figure out whether Randy Thomas can recover from his injuries enough to be his old self or not. That's putting an awful lot on Heyer; I hope Chewie can get his run blocking in order or we are putting a young liability in place of an old liability.

[shally]

Yeah, hopefully Heyer is the real deal at ORT. Reinhart should be able to step in for Pete Kendall. If we follow my unsinkable (it worked for the Bismarck!) draft advice and draft Alex Mack, we should be able to buy enough time to figure out whether Randy Thomas can recover from his injuries enough to be his old self or not. That's putting an awful lot on Heyer; I hope Chewie can get his run blocking in order or we are putting a young liability in place of an old liability.

you never know until you give the kids the keys...

[sinskin]

wow, giving the blocking responsiblities to a rookie... when Zorn wont even put the best TE in college football on the field as a waterboy. Yoder has pics! Dont understand this quite frankly, Cooley was a force his first year. Cowboy's rookie is getting plenty of reps... aside from hes like 7-9 or something lol. Davis cannot be that bad I'm sorry.

What difference does it make who you throw to , rookies or starters, they all drop passes. Let the rookies get the reps... they cant do any worse.

[Biggie]

wow, giving the blocking responsiblities to a rookie... when Zorn wont even put the best TE in college football on the field as a waterboy. Yoder has pics! Dont understand this quite frankly, Cooley was a force his first year. Cowboy's rookie is getting plenty of reps... aside from hes like 7-9 or something lol. Davis cannot be that bad I'm sorry.

What difference does it make who you throw to , rookies or starters, they all drop passes. Let the rookies get the reps... they cant do any worse.
At least the rooks have upside. You couldn't have put Davis in on that garbage drive and let him get a feel for things? Yoder's not getting any better.