Fire Vinny.

[Biggie]

With the calls for Zorn's head starting to pour in (understandably) after that disgusting effort, I realized that we were putting the blame for the failures of this franchise on a man that didn't entirely deserve it. So, I decided that we should really address the root of the problem. Then, I remembered that Dan Snyder has more money than God, and that I probably shouldn't say bad things about him lest I be "removed" and replaced with Terry Robiskie.

So, that leaves one bug-eyed man: Vinny.

Is Zorn to blame for the lack of depth or quality play in the trenches? No, that's on the front office for not addressing the issue, and considering that he's now the de facto GM, it's his job to realize that we have a bunch of should-be retirees up front on both sides of the line. The Jason Taylor trade? Vinny. Leaving us with only four picks next year? Yep, Vinny.

Now, that's not to say that he hasn't had his fair share of successes. There is Chris Horton.

Actually, wait, no. That's it.

In summation, Vincent Cerrato is (to quote Keino) a clown, and I propose we burn his likeness in effigy until he is canned. Any takers?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

YES.

[Da1QbnPaPi]

Done....name the time and location....i'll bring lighter fluid and matches.....whose bringing the wood? We can do this old Salem style like being witches.....

[CNYSkinFan]

Fire vinny, fire zorn, fire the equipment manager, fire the parking attendents and make Snyder sell the team or permanently live in Barbados and be an absentee owner.

And cut all the players over 30 and most under and start over. Time to blow it up.

[JasonCampbell]

This will sound like a smart @ question, but why does Vinny have the job as GM? His track record seems less than stellar, but most of the moves that have been made haven't been done 100% by him (Snyder prodding or Gibbs involved).

Maybe he can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

[shally]

agree. we need to get seriously young from this point forward.. if we dont have enough draft picks, get younger free agents post draft.. they might not be better than the older guys, but they will be cheaper and will hustle

and yes, fire vinnie

[shally]

This will sound like a smart ass question, but why does Vinny have the job as GM? His track record seems less than stellar, but most of the moves that have been made haven't been done 100% by him (Snyder prodding or Gibbs involved).

Maybe he can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

rich powerful men always have their sycophants.. vinnie is a toady

[SpicyMcHaggis]

agree. we need to get seriously young from this point forward.. if we dont have enough draft picks, get younger free agents post draft.. they might not be better than the older guys, but they will be cheaper and will hustle

and yes, fire vinnie
If you have an idiot selecting the players, it doesn't matter how old they are, where you get them, or how many you get (as demonstrated by our last draft). The result will still be horrific.

[shally]

If you have an idiot selecting the players, it doesn't matter how old they are, where you get them, or how many you get (as demonstrated by our last draft). The result will still be horrific.

apparently morocco brown has a lot to do with those types of players. from the way our PS has been picked, i would give him a big promotion if vinnie is ..ah.. incapacitated..

[JasonCampbell]

Man, I can only imagine the beating Vinnie is going to take on his radio show tomorrow :)

[shally]

Man, I can only imagine the beating Vinnie is going to take on his radio show tomorrow :)

i heard he tweaked his calf and springs is starting for him..

[Biggie]

i heard he tweaked his calf and springs is starting for him..
This just in from ESPN 980: Inside the Red Zone with Vinny Cerrato is suspended indefinitely after Cerrato's dismissal from all Redskins-related duties.
____________
Moc . Seoreh Emag Tsop (postgameheroes.com)

Sean, you will be missed.
(Avatar by Colin)





















I can dream, can't I?

[JasonCampbell]

i heard he tweaked his calf and springs is starting for him..

Actually, I will give it to Vinnie, he does take callers and they don't screen away the ones that are negative. He's always retorted "But we are [insert winning record]." He can't say that any more.

Granted, the 4 hours a week he does the show could get spent, like, evaluating talent.

[Patrick]

All I can say is .......... Dream On!

[shally]

Actually, I will give it to Vinnie, he does take callers and they don't screen away the ones that are negative. He's always retorted "But we are [insert winning record]." He can't say that any more.

Granted, the 4 hours a week he does the show could get spent, like, evaluating talent.

better if someone else evaluates the talent..lol

[CNYSkinFan]

This just in from ESPN 980: Inside the Red Zone with Vinny Cerrato is suspended indefinitely after Cerrato's dismissal from all Redskins-related duties.
____________
Moc . Seoreh Emag Tsop (postgameheroes.com)

Sean, you will be missed.
(Avatar by Colin)





















I can dream, can't I?
the fake sig makes you a douchebag biggie you got me for a second (lmao though pretty clever)

[JasonCampbell]

better if someone else evaluates the talent..lol

That's certainly an interesting perspective :)

[BSMKF]

Im all for it...... we should then hire M.Holmgren as GM IMO

[Biggie]

the fake sig makes you a douchebag biggie you got me for a second (lmao though pretty clever)
One of the oldest tricks in the message board book.

:sun:

[Gravy]

Sadly this won't happen unless...._____________
(fill in the Blank)

[JasonCampbell]

Sadly this won't happen unless...._____________
(fill in the Blank)

Snyder finds another boy toy.

[HAWGZHEAD]

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq348/strokerace1020/wormtongue3.jpg "The lines are fine! We will draft more wideouts."

[Gravy]

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq348/strokerace1020/wormtongue3.jpg "The lines are fine! We will draft more wideouts."

No...

[akhhorus]

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq348/strokerace1020/wormtongue3.jpg "The lines are fine! We will draft more wideouts."

You're giving Vinny way too much credit there.


So, Vinny will kill Snyder by pushing him off a hobbit's house?

[Biggie]

You're giving Vinny way too much credit there.


So, Vinny will kill Snyder by pushing him off a hobbit's house?
I think Snyder is more of a Theoden in this situation.

[skinsfan36]

please fire him,promote morocco brown hes doing a good job find moore,horton,ps players.

[akhhorus]

I think Snyder is more of a Theoden in this situation.

Great, we need Gandalf to expel Jeruh Jones from Snyder now.

[JasonCampbell]

i heard he tweaked his calf and springs is starting for him..

Damn, you were right:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/welcome_to_cincinnati.html

Vinny Cerrato, in a pretty fantastic gray suit and a burgundy and gold tie, having a pre-game chat in the press room with Larry, Sonny and Sam. By the way, there's a rumor swirling up here that Inside the Red Zone will, again, be benched tomorrow. Long flight back from Ohio, I guess.

[UPDATE: Confirmed. No show tomorrow. No inside scoop for the fans this week.]

Anyone want to chip in for one of these near Fed Ex:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/bengals-billboard.jpg

[shally]

I think Snyder is more of a Theoden in this situation.


actually, more of a Thetan, if you ask me..

[shally]

Damn, you were right:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/welcome_to_cincinnati.html



Anyone want to chip in for one of these near Fed Ex:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/bengals-billboard.jpg

told you.. if nothing else, vinnie has a good private tutor in Springles

[Biggie]

Great, we need Gandalf to expel Jeruh Jones from Snyder now.
Gibbs was Gandalf, except that he decided to hop right back on to Shadowfax and go back to Valinor.

[akhhorus]

Gibbs was Gandalf, except that he decided to hop right back on to Shadowfax and go back to Valinor.

I'm about to go on the ships to Valinor on this season lol

[Biggie]

I'm about to go on the ships to Valinor on this season lol
No! We have to stay and fight the forces of Jerry/Sauron!

[JasonCampbell]

Gibbs was Gandalf, except that he decided to hop right back on to Shadowfax and go back to Valinor.

I'm about to go on the ships to Valinor on this season lol

No! We have to stay and fight the forces of Jerry/Sauron!

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/img/facepalm.jpeg

[Biggie]

That's how serious of a GM Vinny is. Half a page of LOTR references and Jean-Luc Picard to cap it off.

[Redskinfan28]

Do we have enough money to sign Haynesworth and/or Dansby? Although I am loathe to spend big money on FA, they are young and should have plenty of years left. That would allow us to focus the draft on OL and depth.

[Emmanouel8]

The only fair thing is to hire a quality GM evaluate the team and coaches from top to bottom and figure it out. Zorn is a first year coach and has done a reasonable job thus far with what he has.

*Mediocre and aging offensive line
*Mediocre defensive line
*No pass rush
*One quality WR, 2 rookies, and mediocrity
*One quality LB everyone else expendable
*One quality RB
*Developing QB who's streaky IMO the guy who's holding us back as he develops to no fault of his own but he's not the guy right now.

Objectively 7-7 is not far off the mark when the above items are considered. You have to have a pass rush, QB, running game, and depth. We do not. The only unit thats worth carrying over is the secondary.

The results of this team have been fairly consistent for the last 10 years and one common denominator Vinny and Dan. They can spin titles and responsibility all they want but the big picture is fairly obvious IMO.

I have not and will not be going to any games, or spending a dime towards the franchise until they get rid of Vinny and hire a legit GM to make decisions. Call for Zorn's head if you want but you'll be calling for another head next season again and again until Vinny is out. He is the biggest charlatane in the NFL.

[LATrueRedskin]

Is it true that he cancelled his stupid Monday show for tomorrow? Now that's being accountable.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

The only fair thing is to hire a quality GM evaluate the team and coaches from top to bottom and figure it out. Zorn is a first year coach and has done a reasonable job thus far with what he has.

*Mediocre and aging offensive line
*Mediocre defensive line
*No pass rush
*One quality WR, 2 rookies, and mediocrity
*One quality LB everyone else expendable
*One quality RB
*Developing QB who's streaky IMO the guy who's holding us back as he develops to no fault of his own but he's not the guy right now.

Objectively 7-7 is not far off the mark when the above items are considered. You have to have a pass rush, QB, running game, and depth. We do not. The only unit thats worth carrying over is the secondary.

The results of this team have been fairly consistent for the last 10 years and one common denominator Vinny and Dan. They can spin titles and responsibility all they want but the big picture is fairly obvious IMO.

I have not and will not be going to any games, or spending a dime towards the franchise until they get rid of Vinny and hire a legit GM to make decisions. Call for Zorn's head if you want but you'll be calling for another head next season again and again until Vinny is out. He is the biggest charlatane in the NFL.
Can't argue with this at all. I think it's too early to give up on Zorn. If the players are quitting on him then ditch the players. I don't want quitters on this team. Let's give Zorn some more talent on the lines and an aggressive D coordinator and then judge him. Synder/Cerrato are the problem, IMO.

[shally]

Can't argue with this at all. I think it's too early to give up on Zorn. If the players are quitting on him then ditch the players. I don't want quitters on this team. Let's give Zorn some more talent on the lines and an aggressive D coordinator and then judge him. Synder/Cerrato are the problem, IMO.

there is NO solution for cerrato/snyder because snyder is young and making money. cerrato is his toady.. neither are going anywhere for a long long time.

[skinsfan36]

Is it true that he cancelled his stupid Monday show for tomorrow? Now that's being accountable.

i heard its true.maybe its because hes got a meeting with dan or zorn

[Nomad]

Cure cancer instead. Probably easier than getting Vinny fired.
Watching Dallas and Giants DLs destroy each others QBs, and their stable of young RBs get it done was instructive. EXACT opposite of Skins.

[silverspring]

Whether vinny is a clown or not, this is his first year as GM. There is no way you can rationalize judging his drafting success until the players have had at the very least 2 years. So we can fire him, but what GM would want to take the job knowing they will be judged in that manner.

If anything his personnel choices have been getting a thumbs up around the league if you notice how our practice squad is being picked to pieces.

[Nomad]

Do we have enough money to sign Haynesworth and/or Dansby? Although I am loathe to spend big money on FA, they are young and should have plenty of years left. That would allow us to focus the draft on OL and depth.

More of the same failed philosophy.
Haynesworth will be 28 by the start of the season next year. Dansby at 27 is about as old as you want to get for a big money FA, and is an LB, not DL or OL.
We need 15 guys, not 2.
We need to DRAFT players, and develop them.
The solution is not 2 free agents. It is 15 guys that round out our roster and give us quality depth rather than 8 overpaid superstuds and nothing else.
If we do sign FAs, it should be 10 young guys and see who develops.

[shally]

Whether vinny is a clown or not, this is his first year as GM. There is no way you can rationalize judging his drafting success until the players have had at the very least 2 years. So we can fire him, but what GM would want to take the job knowing they will be judged in that manner.

If anything his personnel choices have been getting a thumbs up around the league if you notice how our practice squad is being picked to pieces.

morocco brown.. some of us may live to see the day when he becomes head of a personnel department or a GM

they better do whatever is needed to hold onto him as long as they can

there would be no shortage of personnel guys lining up to take vinnies place if it opened up..

[shally]

More of the same failed philosophy.
Haynesworth will be 28 by the start of the season next year. Dansby at 27 is about as old as you want to get for a big money FA, and is an LB, not DL or OL.
We need 15 guys, not 2.
We need to DRAFT players, and develop them.
The solution is not 2 free agents. It is 15 guys that round out our roster and give us quality depth rather than 8 overpaid superstuds and nothing else.
If we do sign FAs, it should be 10 young guys and see who develops.

with only 4 draft picks and limited cap space, the front office simply has to make some FA signings this off season.
we need at least a 15-20 % infusion of fresh talent. do the math

[silverspring]

morocco brown.. some of us may live to see the day when he becomes head of a personnel department or a GM

they better do whatever is needed to hold onto him as long as they can

there would be no shortage of personnel guys lining up to take vinnies place if it opened up..

Yep, and this is a very positive thing for the organization.
But should we not give vinny credit for this?

[shally]

Yep, and this is a very positive thing for the organization.
But should we not give vinny credit for this?

yes.

he has a bright future

[Skinzlover223]

I know there will be 80,000 Philly Fans in the Staduim next week, but for the 10k Redskins that show up, please bring Fire Vinny signs. If you call any of the radio shows please stress fire Vinny. Make it clear the fans are through with this guy, I could take another year of Zorn, but not another second of Vinny.

[WackyJacky]

LOL

[dogfight6]

Fire Snyder, sent Vinny to Timbucto. The Skins have been inconsistant since Mr. Cooke passed away.

[redskin_rich]

Firing Vinny is where I'd start but I wouldn't be putting the ax down after that.

Fire EVERYBODY!

[NamVet4]

Absolutely agree it is time to terminate Daniel Snyder and Vincent Cerrato. Realistically, no one with a degree of talent, will come and be a GM as long as Danny Boy is holding the reigns of stupidity!

Coach Zorn . . let him bring in coaches he is willing to work with and who want to work with him; give him a say in the personnel that will stay and leave and . . . well I can dream... ~ sigh:(

[Hr fan]

agree. we need to get seriously young from this point forward.. if we dont have enough draft picks, get younger free agents post draft.. they might not be better than the older guys, but they will be cheaper and will hustle

and yes, fire vinnie

Didn't Danntdumbboat face this choice before, with a coach/GM that solved the age/salary cap problems and finished 8-8 after a horrible start vs Vinnie the loser?

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

charlie casserley!bring back charlie casserley.he was'nt have bad,give him a second chance!

[shally]

Didn't Danntdumbboat face this choice before, with a coach/GM that solved the age/salary cap problems and finished 8-8 after a horrible start vs Vinnie the loser?

yup.. snyder loves his fingers on the throttle.. he sees jerry jones and is green with envy

[shally]

charlie casserley!bring back charlie casserley.he was'nt have bad,give him a second chance!


no. just no...

holmgren or cowher

[Keino]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)

[Emmanouel8]

Fire Snyder, sent Vinny to Timbucto. The Skins have been inconsistant since Mr. Cooke passed away.

No I think it's been pretty consistent.

Fire!

[Emmanouel8]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)

No kidding, the man has been with organization for 8-9 years now. This whole first year GM junk is insane. It's been the same. For every move this organization makes there's a bad move to go along with it. This season under the "1st year" GM has been far worse:

*1 draft pick out of ten makes a significant contribution
*Limited cap space to work with next season or the following
*Limited draft picks next season.
*Needless $20 million guaranteed contract restructuring of Portis approaching the downside of his career.
* O or D line not addressed early in the draft or FA.

Stop going to games and buying merchandise and you can fire Vinny, its that simple. I've started already this year. It's sad but the only way to oust that charlatan.

[dj_stouty]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)

Funny how Vinny didn't mention how many tackles Jerod Mayo has had this season.

I love how Michael's simply says; "Right" after Vinny says each sentence...

[Skinzlover223]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)

Just read that. My GOD man, how does this guy have a job in the NFL.

[Lavar703]

Just read that. My GOD man, how does this guy have a job in the NFL.

Hes Daniel Snyders Farnsworth Bentley I guess, no other explanation

[Skinzlover223]

The skins are a joke franchise. Look at this guy running out team. After reading that Sports Bog I'm confident that we will never be anything other than an medicore team.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Just read that. My GOD man, how does this guy have a job in the NFL.

Not happy with what we did in in the first few rounds of the draft, but - to be fair - it takes a couple years to truly evaluate a draft. That said, not taking atleast one lineman with one of our 3 2nd round picks is inexcusable. And taking only 2 linemen (in the 3rd and 7th) in a draft with 10 picks is even worse.

[Keino]

No kidding, the man has been with organization for 8-9 years now. This whole first year GM junk is insane. It's been the same. For every move this organization makes there's a bad move to go along with it. This season under the "1st year" GM has been far worse:

*1 draft pick out of ten makes a significant contribution
*Limited cap space to work with next season or the following
*Limited draft picks next season.
*Needless $20 million guaranteed contract restructuring of Portis approaching the downside of his career.
* O or D line not addressed early in the draft or FA.

Stop going to games and buying merchandise and you can fire Vinny, its that simple. I've started already this year. It's sad but the only way to oust that charlatan.

And the only one of those 10 picks making the contribution was the last selected. Whats worse is only 3 of those picks were on Linemen....

[SpicyMcHaggis]

This is the man that is deciding our fate. I can't overstate the gravity of the situation. Anything we do involving players, coaches, staff, ballboys, etc. etc. etc. will be moot as long as this complete moron is the guy in charge of making the decisions.

Each thread, post, discussion regarding what the Skins should do in the future should begin and end with one sentence: Fire Vinny.

Oh, and one last thing..since he was talking about stats (and dissing players from other teams), he might have wanted to mention the stats of the THREE players he personally chose in the second round. Even a brain as miniscule as his should be able to calculate them, since the numbers barely break double digits. Combined.

[cactusjack]

Didn't Danntdumbboat face this choice before, with a coach/GM that solved the age/salary cap problems and finished 8-8 after a horrible start vs Vinnie the loser?

Yep, He screwed things up BIG TIME the day he and Vinnie decided they knew more about building winning football teams than Marty. That has to be the biggest blunder made since Danny boy has owned the franchise. Correct me if I am wrong.....but didnt that team win 7 of the last eight games with Tony Banks as QB? Tony Freakin Banks! Yep Danny and Vinnie know more than Marty. NOT!

[nicefellow31]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)

I read that mess and my head wanted to explode. Don't draft for need? What do you call drafting two wide receivers and a tight end in the 2nd round? For the love of a higher being, please fire that man. I like how he claimed that they would of picked Jerod Mayo if he was available. Sure Vinny.

[silverspring]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)


Yikes.

[LATrueRedskin]

I think there is enough documented here to justify tossing Vinny out on his Keester:

Partial Radio Transcript provided by Steinberg (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/cerrato_explains_why_the_skins.html)

Absolutely astonishing. You should make a new thread solely on this article so it doesn't get lost in the discussion. Not only does Vinny stretch the truth in this article to justify drafting 3 skill position players (by the way, Vinny, how are those guys doing? What are their stats looking like?), he mocks the idea of drafting for need.

I have a question for Vinny after reading his transcript: How come Malcolm Kelly isn't playing or making any plays? How come Fred Davis isn't playing or making any plays? Moron.

[shally]

Absolutely astonishing. You should make a new thread solely on this article so it doesn't get lost in the discussion. Not only does Vinny stretch the truth in this article to justify drafting 3 skill position players (by the way, Vinny, how are those guys doing? What are their stats looking like?), he mocks the idea of drafting for need.

I have a question for Vinny after reading his transcript: How come Malcolm Kelly isn't playing or making any plays? How come Fred Davis isn't playing or making any plays? Moron.

we are doomed as a franchise as long as that asshat is in charge of our front office

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Absolutely astonishing. You should make a new thread solely on this article so it doesn't get lost in the discussion. Not only does Vinny stretch the truth in this article to justify drafting 3 skill position players (by the way, Vinny, how are those guys doing? What are their stats looking like?), he mocks the idea of drafting for need.

I have a question for Vinny after reading his transcript: How come Malcolm Kelly isn't playing or making any plays? How come Fred Davis isn't playing or making any plays? Moron.

Zorn decides who plays and who sits. Obviously, Kelly showed up in bad shape to camp and hasnt been healthy enough to play. Davis was lazy and didnt learn the playbook. Zorn makes the call on who is active and who isnt. You can blame Vinny for drafting the guys in the first place, but not for their lack of production on the field. Thats squarely on the players, their position coaches, and Zorn.

[CNYSkinFan]

Is there now any doubt who was pulling the strigns on the gibbs years when it came to fa/drafs? Thise wishing to give Vinnie a clean slate should be ashamed of themselves and realize that EVERYTHING coming from Redskins.com is total BS.

[Keino]

I read that mess and my head wanted to explode. Don't draft for need? What do you call drafting two wide receivers and a tight end in the 2nd round? For the love of a higher being, please fire that man. I like how he claimed that they would of picked Jerod Mayo if he was available. Sure Vinny.


I think it's scarier that he says "Well all the Mocks had him in the 19-22 range, so I thought he would be there for us". (Talking about Mayo and I am paraphrasing, that's not the exact quote)

Seriously?

Why not just hire Mel Kiper, Jr. and Mike Mayock as consultants. As a GM, you are an insider. You should have known that he wouldn't be there at 21 or had a very good idea....

[shally]

Zorn decides who plays and who sits. Obviously, Kelly showed up in bad shape to camp and hasnt been healthy enough to play. Davis was lazy and didnt learn the playbook. Zorn makes the call on who is active and who isnt. You can blame Vinny for drafting the guys in the first place, but not for their lack of production on the field. Thats squarely on the players, their position coaches, and Zorn.


players dont get lazy or bad-charactered all of a sudden. that is failure of due diligence in scouting.. a guy who is lazy now, probably has been lazy all his career. someone didnt talk in depth to his position coaches and just looked at stats or press releases

[akhhorus]

Is there now any doubt who was pulling the strigns on the gibbs years when it came to fa/drafs?

There's absolutely nothing in that transcript that supports your thesis. Especially considering how much say we know Williams had over defensive personnel.

[Keino]

Is there now any doubt who was pulling the strigns on the gibbs years when it came to fa/drafs? Thise wishing to give Vinnie a clean slate should be ashamed of themselves and realize that EVERYTHING coming from Redskins.com is total BS.

Dude, Gibbs was the team president. You cannot blame Gibbs' decisions on Vinny. At worst you can blame Gibbs for relying on bad information from Vinny.

[akhhorus]

I think it's scarier that he says "Well all the Mocks had him in the 19-22 range, so I thought he would be there for us". (Talking about Mayo and I am paraphrasing, that's not the exact quote)

Seriously?

Why not just hire Mel Kiper, Jr. and Mike Mayock as consultants. As a GM, you are an insider. You should have known that he wouldn't be there at 21 or had a very good idea....

I'm willing to work for less than Vinny....

[CNYSkinFan]

Dude, Gibbs was the team president. You cannot blame Gibbs' decisions on Vinny. At worst you can blame Gibbs for relying on bad information from Vinny.
that I agree with but Vinny drew up the draft boards, vinny at the very least was an enabler in the ARCH situation, Vinny made the Duckett trade or at least negotiated it.

Vinny hasd a say in what happened the last four years and I think all the people who were ready to throw gibbs out on his ear and give Vinny a Clean slate blaming Gibbs for everythign that happened were fooling themselves. Gibbsdeeserves alot of pblame, but ath team president title was just that, a title. Vinny ran the scouuting department and was in charge of FA and draftee negotiations, to give him a blank slate is/was homerism at it's best.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

players dont get lazy or bad-charactered all of a sudden. that is failure of due diligence in scouting.. a guy who is lazy now, probably has been lazy all his career. someone didnt talk in depth to his position coaches and just looked at stats or press releases

Its fairly common for guys to come in and think they can transition smoothly to the NFL and be just as good as they were in college without having to step it up. Some guys are kuckleheads and have to learn the hard way. Davis won the Mack award and was the best TE in college last year. If you go to youtube and watch highlights, you'll understand why he was an enticing pick. I dont think we needed to draft a TE, but it WAS a good value and we had every right to expect more from him. That said, we should have picked up Calias Campbell instead of Davis with that pick. Kelly was a no-brainer to pic when he fell to us. The mistake was not IRing him when it became apparent his knee was such a problem.

[shally]

I'm willing to work for less than Vinny....

be careful what you ask for..

i hear certain unspeakable acts and sacrifices are required.....frequently...lol

[BigHairedAristocrat]

that I agree with but Vinny drew up the draft boards, vinny at the very least was an enabler in the ARCH situation, Vinny made the Duckett trade or at least negotiated it.

Vinny hasd a say in what happened the last four years and I think all the people who were ready to throw gibbs out on his ear and give Vinny a Clean slate blaming Gibbs for everythign that happened were fooling themselves. Gibbsdeeserves alot of pblame, but ath team president title was just that, a title. Vinny ran the scouuting department and was in charge of FA and draftee negotiations, to give him a blank slate is/was homerism at it's best.

its not homerism to give him a clean slate. A true redskins fan should be very suspcious of a man who is quite possibly the main factor in ruining their beloved team. Vinny, Gibbs, and Snyder all deserve a share of the blame for that 4 year period. We will never, ever know who that blame should be split out.

The only positive thing about the situation now is that we know cerrato is in charge, so whatever happens during his tenure as the defacto GM, we know he gets atleast 100% of the blame. If this team is still having the same problems in 5 years, Snyder will have no choice but to fire him.

[Keino]

I'm willing to work for less than Vinny....

Shiooooooot. Me too.

[LATrueRedskin]

Zorn decides who plays and who sits. Obviously, Kelly showed up in bad shape to camp and hasnt been healthy enough to play. Davis was lazy and didnt learn the playbook. Zorn makes the call on who is active and who isnt. You can blame Vinny for drafting the guys in the first place, but not for their lack of production on the field. Thats squarely on the players, their position coaches, and Zorn.

Of course it is. Then why did Vinny bring it up about Merling and Calias Campbell in that interview?

Cerrato passed up on offensive and defensive linemen and picked 3 guys who are apparently too stupid to play in an offense that can barely score 10 points. Meanwhile, our aging offensive and defensive lines are in shambles, and we're struggling to provide quality players to take their place. That's flat-out bad position management and poor drafting. Those fall under Cerrato's job description.

[akhhorus]

that I agree with but Vinny drew up the draft boards, vinny at the very least was an enabler in the ARCH situation, Vinny made the Duckett trade or at least negotiated it.

Vinny hasd a say in what happened the last four years and I think all the people who were ready to throw gibbs out on his ear and give Vinny a Clean slate blaming Gibbs for everythign that happened were fooling themselves. Gibbsdeeserves alot of pblame, but ath team president title was just that, a title. Vinny ran the scouuting department and was in charge of FA and draftee negotiations, to give him a blank slate is/was homerism at it's best.

No one is giving Vinny a blank slate, but there's no proof of what you're saying here.

[BigCountry]

I think it's scarier that he says "Well all the Mocks had him in the 19-22 range, so I thought he would be there for us". (Talking about Mayo and I am paraphrasing, that's not the exact quote)

Seriously?

Why not just hire Mel Kiper, Jr. and Mike Mayock as consultants. As a GM, you are an insider. You should have known that he wouldn't be there at 21 or had a very good idea....

I knew he wasn't going to be there at 21, and depending on what point during the draft he got drunk, AKH probably knew and I'm sure we're not the only ones. It was pretty common knowledge that he wasn't going to last till then. The other player we were supposedly targeting was Jeff Otah. Both will be on the all rookie team. Almost a good draft :smash:

BTW, Scott Piolli's contract is up, is there a reason I'm not aware of as to why we shouldn't pay this guy whatever he wants to come run this franchise?

[CNYSkinFan]

I knew he wasn't going to be there at 21, and depending on what point during the draft he got drunk, AKH probably knew and I'm sure we're not the only ones. It was pretty common knowledge that he wasn't going to last till then. The other player we were supposedly targeting was Jeff Otah. Both will be on the all rookie team. Almost a good draft :smash:

BTW, Scott Piolli's contract is up, is there a reason I'm not aware of as to why we shouldn't pay this guy whatever he wants to come run this franchise?
he wants control and Vinny is Snyder's enabler...but sure I would love Piollis with a 3 year fiat to rebuld the franchoise from the bottom up

[BigHairedAristocrat]

he wants control and Vinny is Snyder's enabler...but sure I would love Piollis with a 3 year fiat to rebuld the franchoise from the bottom up

Piolli would be a dream come true, but theres no way NE lets him go. If they don't already have an agreement with him to stay on board, they will have one soon. Then again... maybe getting Piolli was dannys plan all along and that was the reason Vinny still has a "Vice" in his job title... so technically he's not demoted when Scott comes in. :-)

[JasonCampbell]

That Steinberg piece is absolute gold. I remember watching that episode and making a mental note to go and check out Merling and Campbell's stats to see if Vinny was right and I really wish I had. Mel Kiper and Cerrato are friends. I wonder how much Vinny leans on Kiper...

I love Larry Michael's responses to what Vinny was saying too, LOL.

[LATrueRedskin]

That Steinberg piece is absolute gold. I remember watching that episode and making a mental note to go and check out Merling and Campbell's stats to see if Vinny was right and I really wish I had. Mel Kiper and Cerrato are friends. I wonder how much Vinny leans on Kiper...

I love Larry Michael's responses to what Vinny was saying too, LOL.

lol I know. I laughed out loud in the office when I read the final line of the transcript: "There you go, straight from Vinny Cerrato." Too good to be true.

[JasonCampbell]

lol I know. I laughed out loud in the office when I read the final line of the transcript: "There you go, straight from Vinny Cerrato." Too good to be true.

He says stuff like that all the time. I honestly think I would have a hard time falling asleep at night if I had to brown nose that much to the management.

[akhhorus]

He says stuff like that all the time. I honestly think I would have a hard time falling asleep at night if I had to brown nose that much to the management.

I'm sure Larry Michael makes enough money to pay for years of intense Adlerian therapy lol.

[shally]

I'm sure Larry Michael makes enough money to pay for years of intense Adlerian therapy lol.

he had a secret prefrontal lobotomy as a condition of his employment

[SpicyMcHaggis]

That Steinberg piece is absolute gold. I remember watching that episode and making a mental note to go and check out Merling and Campbell's stats to see if Vinny was right and I really wish I had. Mel Kiper and Cerrato are friends. I wonder how much Vinny leans on Kiper...

I love Larry Michael's responses to what Vinny was saying too, LOL.
Yeah...until you realize which team Vinny works for.

[cal_junior]

How many years has Vinny truly been the No. 1 guy in terms of personnel? Weren't Marty and JG in charge of things for stretches?

Where I'm going with this is that I wonder if even Danny will allow Vinny to retain his current post for very long if it becomes clear we are making dramatic mistakes in the draft and free agency.

It's hard to make the case that Joe Bugel doesn't know how to coach offensive lineman, so isn't the problem we've allowed the group to get older and not provided adequate depth? Isn't that the fault of the guy in charge of the draft last season?

At some point logic will kick in with Danny and he'll realize it takes savvy personnel decisions to win consistently in the NFL. Right?

[hogskins]

It's one thing to shamelessly CYA during an interview. It's another to be so desperately bad and unconvincing at it... throw in a few pieces of total misinformation (whether they are intentional or out of ignorance), and I think one has the measure of the man.

Fire Vinny.

[shally]

It's one thing to shamelessly CYA during an interview. It's another to be so desperately bad and unconvincing at it... throw in a few pieces of total misinformation (whether they are intentional or out of ignorance), and I think one has the measure of the man.

Fire Vinny.


60,000 masks at next home game, each saying "FIRE VINNY" every time the camera pans the crowd

[JasonCampbell]

60,000 masks at next home game, each saying "FIRE VINNY" every time the camera pans the crowd

I think I could make the drive down to Redskins Park to burn a Vinny effigy. I'm being completely serious.

[hogskins]

I think I could make the drive down to Redskins Park to burn a Vinny effigy. I'm being completely serious.

A selfless act of fandom, but don't get arrested, man.

[JasonCampbell]

A selfless act of fandom, but don't get arrested, man.

I'm not going to do it by myself. I would need a few others :)

[Skins7ny]

Of course it is. Then why did Vinny bring it up about Merling and Calias Campbell in that interview?

Cerrato passed up on offensive and defensive linemen and picked 3 guys who are apparently too stupid to play in an offense that can barely score 10 points. Meanwhile, our aging offensive and defensive lines are in shambles, and we're struggling to provide quality players to take their place. That's flat-out bad position management and poor drafting. Those fall under Cerrato's job description.
I am as tough on Cerrato as anybody (see below), but I feel it is less a failure of this year's draft than a failure of the previous years' drafting. We shouldn't have to rely on rookies to get our team to the playoffs, although it would be nice. The holes on our roster should have been filled by guys we have drafted in the last 3-4 years. Those guys are playing for other teams (because the FO didn't value the draft and so traded our picks away) or are out of the league (because they wasted the picks they kept on players who couldn't play). As bad as Cerrato's draft looks so far, it is still not fair to judge it after only one year. But he shares blame in my book with Gibbs and Snyder for the failures of all of our drafts since Snyder bought the team, save for the Marty year.
Piolli would be a dream come true, but theres no way NE lets him go. If they don't already have an agreement with him to stay on board, they will have one soon. Then again... maybe getting Piolli was dannys plan all along and that was the reason Vinny still has a "Vice" in his job title... so technically he's not demoted when Scott comes in. :-)
And there is no way Pioli would come here and work with Snyder, and there is not a snowball's chance in Hades that he comes here if Cerrato is still in the building. No chance at all, none. Cerrato would be undermining him at every turn, both on purpose (by badmouthing and backstabbing him) and through his scouting incompetence.
That Steinberg piece is absolute gold. I remember watching that episode and making a mental note to go and check out Merling and Campbell's stats to see if Vinny was right and I really wish I had. Mel Kiper and Cerrato are friends. I wonder how much Vinny leans on Kiper...

I love Larry Michael's responses to what Vinny was saying too, LOL.
I think after that "interview", Michaels got some extra Alpo in his dish.
How many years has Vinny truly been the No. 1 guy in terms of personnel? Weren't Marty and JG in charge of things for stretches?

Where I'm going with this is that I wonder if even Danny will allow Vinny to retain his current post for very long if it becomes clear we are making dramatic mistakes in the draft and free agency.... At some point logic will kick in with Danny and he'll realize it takes savvy personnel decisions to win consistently in the NFL. Right?
That ship has sailed. Around the world. And back. Twice. If Danny hasn't realized it through all these years, I doubt he will see it now. But we can dream.
It's one thing to shamelessly CYA during an interview. It's another to be so desperately bad and unconvincing at it... throw in a few pieces of total misinformation (whether they are intentional or out of ignorance), and I think one has the measure of the man.

Fire Vinny.
Another measure of the man is how he all of a sudden had "league business" to attend to for the first Monday all year, and couldn't do his radio show after the loss to Cincy. What a chicken-s**t human being. Why should the players face the media after a tough loss when the guy in charge of the franchise won't even show up for his own radio show? What kind of message does that send the players, the staff, etc.

Cerrato has been a person of low charachter since before he got the job, badmouthing Casserly to Snyder while Snyder was vying to buy the team, because he knew it was the only way he was going to get back in the league. No one team was going to hire him.

Another example of his low character is the lying about Spagnuolo. And the constant railing about the "Sourceror" when you know that Cerrato is a huge source for stories that have advanced his career, there is no question he has planted stories in the media as an anonymous source. The level of hypocrisy and out-and-out lying that emanates from Redskins Park is just breathtaking and shameful.

[skins74]

I agree. Fire Vinny and anyone else who is a talent evaluator because they are awful. If you look at the quality teams around the league they constantly have up and comers and we rarely have anyone that produces. Vinny has had plenty of time to put a solid team together IMO and he has done a terrible job.

[Skins7ny]

I agree. Fire Vinny and anyone else who is a talent evaluator because they are awful. If you look at the quality teams around the league they constantly have up and comers and we rarely have anyone that produces. Vinny has had plenty of time to put a solid team together IMO and he has done a terrible job.

Morrocco Brown seems to have done a good job with his scouting. He apparently is responsible for stocking the practice squad, which has had 5 players plucked by other teams.

I would consider him to replace Cerrato. I would also consider Floyd Reese, Charley Casserly if the preference is someone with prior GM experience. Perhaps the best scenario is bringing Bobby DePaul (ex-Skins scout) over from Chicago and making Brown his right-hand man (they have worked with each other before and work well together). I would also consider Martin Mayhew despite his association with Millen because (1) he is an ex-Skin and knows what it means to be a Redskin (2) he is (super)smart, law school grad (3) he already has fleeced more people in trade than Vinny has fleeced in 9 years. And that guy was Jerry Jones.

[akhhorus]

Morrocco Brown seems to have done a good job with his scouting. He apparently is responsible for stocking the practice squad, which has had 5 players plucked by other teams.

I would consider him to replace Cerrato. I would also consider Floyd Reese, Charley Casserly if the preference is someone with prior GM experience. Perhaps the best scenario is bringing Bobby DePaul (ex-Skins scout) over from Chicago and making Brown his right-hand man (they have worked with each other before and work well together). I would also consider Martin Mayhew despite his association with Millen because (1) he is an ex-Skin and knows what it means to be a Redskin (2) he is (super)smart, law school grad (3) he already has fleeced more people in trade than Vinny has fleeced in 9 years. And that guy was Jerry Jones.

Floyd Reese? I don't want any GM who thoughts that Vince Young, PacMan, Ben Troupe, Henry Ford, Kevin Dyson and Andre Woolfolk were good ideas with his first pick. Chuckles Casserly did a good job with his final draft in Houston, but the rest of his drafts were awful. Mayhew did a good job horse trading with Jeruh Jones, but he's still too much of an unknown. The Skins need an established GM with a good track record in recent years. Not some young kid promoted up, because he'll have to have the resume and stones to fight Snyder.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Floyd Reese? I don't want any GM who thoughts that Vince Young, PacMan, Ben Troupe, Henry Ford, Kevin Dyson and Andre Woolfolk were good ideas with his first pick. Chuckles Casserly did a good job with his final draft in Houston, but the rest of his drafts were awful. Mayhew did a good job horse trading with Jeruh Jones, but he's still too much of an unknown. The Skins need an established GM with a good track record in recent years. Not some young kid promoted up, because he'll have to have the resume and stones to fight Snyder.
Exactly. Anyone who hasn't built at least a championship caliber team in the past is out of the discussion.
We need (well, would need..since none of this is gonna happen) someone who could stand up to Danny. Or, if that isn't possible, perhaps someone who could kidnap him and ship him to Alaska or the North Pole or one of Jupiter's moons.

[MadDog97]

60,000 masks at next home game, each saying "FIRE VINNY" every time the camera pans the crowd

OK, I hope everyone is enjoying the thought of Vinnie leaving but here is the dose of reality. Vinnie is, and has always been, Danny's personal lap dog. He plays tennis with the boss. Marty fired him (smart move) and Danny brought him right back.

This team needs a REAL GM, but Danny will keep Vinnie so he can maintain control. If Danny were willing to learn he would have done so a long time ago.


:swars:

[Skins7ny]

Floyd Reese? I don't want any GM who thoughts that Vince Young, PacMan, Ben Troupe, Henry Ford, Kevin Dyson and Andre Woolfolk were good ideas with his first pick. Chuckles Casserly did a good job with his final draft in Houston, but the rest of his drafts were awful. Mayhew did a good job horse trading with Jeruh Jones, but he's still too much of an unknown. The Skins need an established GM with a good track record in recent years. Not some young kid promoted up, because he'll have to have the resume and stones to fight Snyder.
Reese was there for many years, and yes, he made some mistakes. But overall, his track records matches up well against almost everyone in the league, and the Oilers/Titans have been a consisent contender for the last decade plus. I don't know that you are going to get anyone with a track record to take this job. Whomever takes the job (speaking again from Fantasy Land, since we both know that Vinny probably has the job for life) would need to have final authority written into his contract the way Marty did.
Exactly. Anyone who hasn't built at least a championship caliber team in the past is out of the discussion.
We need (well, would need..since none of this is gonna happen) someone who could stand up to Danny. Or, if that isn't possible, perhaps someone who could kidnap him and ship him to Alaska or the North Pole or one of Jupiter's moons.
Those GMs are few and far between. Ted Sundquist (ex-Denver) is available, as is Charley Casserly. Both have rings as GMs. Carl Peterson has a ring from the USFL. Ron Wolf has one, but will want a piece of the team to come on board. I am not sure who else earned a ring as a GM who is not employed right now. Reese hasn't won a ring, but his teams have been championship-caliber, finishing 2 yards away from a ring a few years ago.

[akhhorus]

Reese was there for many years, and yes, he made some mistakes. But overall, his track records matches up well against almost everyone in the league, and the Oilers/Titans have been a consisent contender for the last decade plus.

Umm..no. The Titans are very good this year, and barely made the playoffs last year, but then won 17 games from 03-05. They had a good run with Eddie George's peak years from 99-02(the Titans fall apart as soon as he and Derrick Mason left), but Reese's decisions as a GM, especially in his last 3 years, have been awful. Pacman and Vince Young, both of whom had extremely well known red flags about them as prospects make him an unattractive candidate as a GM.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Reese was there for many years, and yes, he made some mistakes. But overall, his track records matches up well against almost everyone in the league, and the Oilers/Titans have been a consisent contender for the last decade plus. I don't know that you are going to get anyone with a track record to take this job. Whomever takes the job (speaking again from Fantasy Land, since we both know that Vinny probably has the job for life) would need to have final authority written into his contract the way Marty did.

Those GMs are few and far between. Ted Sundquist (ex-Denver) is available, as is Charley Casserly. Both have rings as GMs. Carl Peterson has a ring from the USFL. Ron Wolf has one, but will want a piece of the team to come on board. I am not sure who else earned a ring as a GM who is not employed right now. Reese hasn't won a ring, but his teams have been championship-caliber, finishing 2 yards away from a ring a few years ago.
Yeah, that's what I meant..not necessarily specifically referring to Reese, but in general we would need a guy who has proved he can build a very successfull team.
Cerrato hasn't proved he can even successfully build a house with legos.

[hail2skins]

We need Buddy Ryan who would look at Snyder and punch him in the face for saying something stupid. :D

[shally]

OK, I hope everyone is enjoying the thought of Vinnie leaving but here is the dose of reality. Vinnie is, and has always been, Danny's personal lap dog. He plays tennis with the boss. Marty fired him (smart move) and Danny brought him right back.

This team needs a REAL GM, but Danny will keep Vinnie so he can maintain control. If Danny were willing to learn he would have done so a long time ago.


:swars:

which bodes very very badly for this franchise..