Facts about Redskins' Cap and FAs

[firehawk157]

This is more of a reference thread. If somebody advocates cutting, trading or whatever one of these guys and you want to check cap ramifications, here's a good starting point. Remember, nobody has exact contract figures so these are best guesses.

2009 Cap Total: $118.9M
2009 projected cap: $124M

Cut or Trade Savings
Jason Taylor $8.5M
Shawn Springs $6.0M
Marcus Washington $4.5M
Corneilus Griffin $5.3M
Casey Rabach $3.35M
Phillip Daniels $1.9M
Todd Collins $0
James Thrash $0.84M
Mike Sellers $0.57M
Todd Yoder $0.77M
Rock Cartwright $0.75M
Ryan Plakemeier $0.53M
Stephon Heyer $0.46M

Cut or Trade Cost
Jon Jansen $3.5M
Randy Thomas $7.6M
Santana Moss $0.54M
Chris Cooley $8.1M
Andre Carter $0.3M
Randle El $0.6M
Fred Smooth $0.05M
Carlos Rogers $1.4M
Ladell Betts $0.8M

Unrestricted Free Agents (what they made last year)
Pete Kendall ($3.0M
DeAngelo Hall ($1.0M)
Demetric Evans ($0.8M)
Khary Campbell ($0.8M)
Shaun Suisham ($0.5M)
Ethan Albright ($0.5M)
Jason Fabini ($0.5M)
Mike Green ($0.5M)
Ryan Boschetti ($0.4M)

Restricted Free Agents
For those who don't know, another team can offer a contract to a RFA which the original team can refuse by offering the exact same contract. If the first team refuses to offer it, then the other team can sign that player if they offer the draft pick(s) that the original tender required. For a practical example, let's say San Fran wants to sign Anthony Montgomery who we tender for $2.562M. If Montgomery accepts the deal, we have the right to offer the same contract to him which he must sign (he can not go to Dallas if we offer the same contract). If we decide not to, Dallas then signs him but has to offer us a first and third round draft pick. If nobody signs him, he plays for the Redskins for $2.562M for one more year at which point he will become an unrestricted free agent.

The tenders are
$2.562M - 1st and 3rd round
$2.017M - 1st round
$1.417M - 2nd round
$0.967M - The round in which the player was drafted

Players eligible for RFA are:
Anthony Montgomery
Kedric Golston
Reed Doughty
Justin Geisinger
Alfred Fincher

[SWFlaSkinsFan]

Uh, wasn't Geisinger signed off of our PS by Cincinnati ??

[JasonCampbell]

Uh, wasn't Geisinger signed off of our PS by Cincinnati ??

Geisinger is on IR. You are thinking of Crummey.

[Redskinmayhem]

good lord. WE have GOT to cut dead weight. Jansen/Springs/Washington...I love those guys but man they're costing us a ton of $$$.

In another thread, I mentioned using Cooley as trade bait. At 8.1mil, forget about it lol. Santana on the other hand, I would dangle. Maybe to the Lions...

Griffin and Daniels MUST restructure if they want to stay here.

[lorimike]

So we go on a cutting frenzy and be 30 million under the cap?

[Skaggsrules]

So we go on a cutting frenzy and be 30 million under the cap?

Enough room for Haynesworth...YAY!!!!!!

(this is sarcasm, not a strong advocate of getting him)

[bigcmr]

Looks like lots of cuts will be coming soon. I would cut springs and re-sign Hall. We need to get younger in a lot of postions.

[Biggie]

I'd be willing to cut Jansen and eat the hit. He's not going to be happy about staying on as a backup and the temptation to go back to him would be too strong if he was still on the roster raising a fuss and if his replacement struggled even a little (unless that replacement was Jordan Gross, in which case I don't think there'd be a question as to who would be playing).

[CNYSkinFan]

We must resign Boschetti....at all costs

[shally]

We must resign Boschetti....at all costs

dont kid yourself, if blache returns we are going to see a lot of the usual suspects returning. guys like boschetti, griffin, daniels, springs, green, washington are ALL hoping for a return by blache because some of them will get another call for next year..

[wide_awake]

In another thread, I mentioned using Cooley as trade bait. At 8.1mil, forget about it lol.


Unbelievable.

[shally]

i see no trades happening.. either because the players have contracts that make them difficult or impossible to trade (carter) or because of their age/injury status

vinnie is blowing smoke

[Chief Seeway]

Is Cooley's cap number really that high???

[JasonCampbell]

vinnie is blowing smoke

I was under the assumption he's blowing more than that.

[skinsfan36]

We must resign Boschetti....at all costs

hes like a cockroach i can see him being at redskins park with no contract lol

[skinsfan36]

collins may be gone if it is 0 to trade or cut.get rid of springs,wahington,daniels,griffin
resign kendall,hall,plackenmeier,tender all rfas(monty with 2nd rd)
i will personally drop fabini off at an airport to get him out of here

[colkurtz]

Players will be asked to restructure and their decisions will factor into their retention for next year.

I don't see Daniels, Washington, Springs or ARE being kept under any circumstances.

Daniels is too old.
Springs is too expensive.
Washington is burnt out.
ARE is too expensive for the return. Benching in the next to last game is a bad sign.

I do see Jason Taylor being retained. I predict he will restructure and still has the fire to compete.

Big question is whether Blache will return. No one knows that answer except him.

[firehawk157]

He signed a $12M bonus two years ago (on a 6 year) and then another $10M roster bonus which was spread over 5 years, so absolutely (Cooley). I'm not positive, but I don't think there are June 1st exemptions this year.

[firehawk157]

So we go on a cutting frenzy and be 30 million under the cap?
I think some guys who are long overdue to be on this team will be cut (Washington, Daniels, Griffin) and we will end up with a lot of money to play with.

[shally]

Players will be asked to restructure and their decisions will factor into their retention for next year.

I don't see Daniels, Washington, Springs or ARE being kept under any circumstances.

Daniels is too old.
Springs is too expensive.
Washington is burnt out.
ARE is too expensive for the return. Benching in the next to last game is a bad sign.

I do see Jason Taylor being retained. I predict he will restructure and still has the fire to compete.

Big question is whether Blache will return. No one knows that answer except him.

if blache returns i predict that daniels Will return, Springs Will return, and Marcus May return

ARE is on the offensive side of the ball and zorn will determine his future

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

what was the length of breenan's deal?who would be good to backup JC if they did get rid of collins,brennan or a vet qb signed in the off season?

[skinsfan36]

if blache returns i predict that daniels Will return, Springs Will return, and Marcus May return

ARE is on the offensive side of the ball and zorn will determine his future

i get what your saying but springs,washington have to be gone. especially washington who is done maybe he can go on dancing with the stars instead of dancing after a tackle

[BigCountry]

I think Blache will be coming back for sure. Neither Snyder or Cerratto are smart enough to look beyond the vaunted number 4 ranking. No way they let him go. The only way he leaves is if he resigns.

[The Iceman]

No reason Blache shouldn't be staying. We have held some of the best offenses in the league to minimal pts. this year. As for the cap ramifications... I'd cut Springs, Griffin, and Washington for sure and also I'd like to see Rabach gone. None of these guys has really contributed this year anyway. You have to keep Taylor one more year and see if he can reach the potential we gave a 2nd round pick away to get. Resign Hall. In FA, go out and get Jordan Gross. Then with our first round pick, trade down.. Get two 2nd rounders. Draft Max Unger, and the best available DT. Not neccesarily in that order. This would instantly make the Offensive line a formidable unit. Monte starts next year at DT, and P. Daniels competes with Golston and 2nd rounder to start the other spot. This will leave good depth for rotation and injury. The ends will be better next year when Taylor is healthy. Wins in this league, and in this division start and end with the line play. We need to focus on shoring up the lines and at the same time getting younger on the OL especially. IMHO.

[akhhorus]

No reason Blache shouldn't be staying. We have held some of the best offenses in the league to minimal pts. this year.

Unbelievable. You've been pushing for the skins to dump Portis for years(despite his production), but you give Blache a free pass on that crappy defense(and points is a terrible stat to use)?


If Blache/Zorn return, nothing much will happen. Springs might get dumped, I doubt that Griff or Washington will be(Blache loves them way too much--another reason he should be fired) and they won't make any major moves in FA. The skins aren't going to scramble the team until they know what is going to happen with the cap(in fact, most teams are probably not going to do much until there is definition on that).

[wide_awake]

on that crappy defense



Sometimes you say dumber sh** than Skip Bayless.

[shally]

Unbelievable. You've been pushing for the skins to dump Portis for years(despite his production), but you give Blache a free pass on that crappy defense(and points is a terrible stat to use)?


If Blache/Zorn return, nothing much will happen. Springs might get dumped, I doubt that Griff or Washington will be(Blache loves them way too much--another reason he should be fired) and they won't make any major moves in FA. The skins aren't going to scramble the team until they know what is going to happen with the cap(in fact, most teams are probably not going to do much until there is definition on that).

nothing is gonna happen.. as of weds, zorn is coming back.. blache says he would like to come back... JC is coming back...vinnie coming back

maybe a symbolic player or 2 let go, but otherwise i see deck chairs being re arranged with the hope that the 1-5 stretch was the aberration and the 6-2 was the reality

2010 is the watershed year, either through no-cap or purge because the cap bills come due

[akhhorus]

Sometimes you say dumber sh** than Skip Bayless.

Your opinion doesn't matter to me, especially when you can't discuss the issue past moronic comments like this.

[Bengal224ord]

I think Blache will be coming back for sure. Neither Snyder or Cerratto are smart enough to look beyond the vaunted number 4 ranking. No way they let him go. The only way he leaves is if he resigns.

I think Blache should stay. The guy can only play with the cards he is dealt and he played his hand to the max. We need an impact DT and another LB. You have to agree the Defense did not give up a lot of points. Our Offense just could not SCORE....

bengal224ord:smash:

[Bengal224ord]

Your opinion doesn't matter to me, especially when you can't discuss the issue past moronic comments like this.

:Peace:His comments are not worded in a nice manner, however he has a point. If our defense gave up 28 points a game I would say they were crappy. We must all forget about how much we love or hate a coach or player and get to the issue...I say it was both lines O & D. You may see it different, we are all on the same B & G team. This is Greg B's first year having complete control and granted we didn't get the pressure on the other team's QB, but it should not have been an issue. Our offense could not move in the air, so we get 8 in the box to stop the run and dare us to pass. 10 points a game will not get it done and we all know it.

Go Redskins...do what is needed and make some deep cuts on both sides of the ball. We need to get younger.

r/s
Bengal224ord

[akhhorus]

:Peace:His comments are not worded in a nice manner, however he has a point. If our defense gave up 28 points a game I would say they were crappy. We must all forget about how much we love or hate a coach or player and get to the issue...I say it was both lines O & D. You may see it different, we are all on the same B & G team. This is Greg B's first year having complete control and granted we didn't get the pressure on the other team's QB, but it should not have been an issue. Our offense could not move in the air, so we get 8 in the box to stop the run and dare us to pass. 10 points a game will not get it done and we all know it.


I'm sorry, but any defense that allows long drives to bad offensive teams on a consistent basis is not a good defense. It is crappy. And its exactly when your offense struggles that you need your defense to make big plays rather than bending and hoping they don't break.

[skins4life24]

for everyone who is saying that we need to get younger just remember that it is about at 2-3 commitment and that usually getting younger means getting worse, so far with the patients i have seen with our team this season that plan would be shot down by the fans 6 games in and people will be clamoring for some experienced vets to lead the team.

[shally]

for everyone who is saying that we need to get younger just remember that it is about at 2-3 commitment and that usually getting younger means getting worse, so far with the patients i have seen with our team this season that plan would be shot down by the fans 6 games in and people will be clamoring for some experienced vets to lead the team.

you can certainly get younger on the d line without going backwards because it is all about athleticsim..

on the o line, you can selectively add players who are younger. it hasnt hurt denver or carolina

[wide_awake]

Your opinion doesn't matter to me, especially when you can't discuss the issue past moronic comments like this.

You continuously act like a prick so why bother being respectful? After every opinion I offer you counter with a post, which is fine, but it also contains an asshole comment.

[wide_awake]

you can certainly get younger on the d line without going backwards because it is all about athleticsim..

on the o line, you can selectively add players who are younger. it hasnt hurt denver or carolina

It seems like it takes a little while to develop young defensive ends, true or false?

I can't think of many recent rookies (Although I know Chris Long is doing well despite his team sucking), but I thought they usually take at least a year. Mario Williams?

[shally]

It seems like it takes a little while to develop young defensive ends, true or false?

I can't think of many recent rookies (Although I know Chris Long is doing well despite his team sucking), but I thought they usually take at least a year. Mario Williams?

both ryan clady and jeff otah have started at tackle from the start and are doing well...add that to jake long and you have 3 who have done well... on the other hand brandon albert (injury) brown (houston) and cherilus have started or struggled

on the d line, if you start someone, they are likely to struggle.. spot them, and i think you can get productivity

[skinsfan36]

both ryan clady and jeff otah have started at tackle from the start and are doing well...add that to jake long and you have 3 who have done well... on the other hand brandon albert (injury) brown (houston) and cherilus have started or struggled

on the d line, if you start someone, they are likely to struggle.. spot them, and i think you can get productivity

this is why im thinking this happens
starters-carter,monty,bernard,taylor
backups-evans,alexander,jackson,rookie dt,golston

[wide_awake]

both ryan clady and jeff otah have started at tackle from the start and are doing well...add that to jake long and you have 3 who have done well... on the other hand brandon albert (injury) brown (houston) and cherilus have started or struggled

on the d line, if you start someone, they are likely to struggle.. spot them, and i think you can get productivity

Yeah rookie offensive lineman are more like likely to contribute early, but it seems like you have to be patient with defensive lineman. Which would explain why we never draft them actually.

[akhhorus]

You continuously act like a prick so why bother being respectful? After every opinion I offer you counter with a post, which is fine, but it also contains an asshole comment.

I'm sorry if you can't deal with someone disagreeing with you, but thats your problem(and the last time I responded to one of your posts, I didn't act like a prick or post anything that comes close to being called an "a**hole comment," I just questioned what your point was since you were rambling). And this doesn't justify your post acting like a jerk. But feel free to continue acting like a fool, its hilarious.

[akhhorus]

Yeah rookie offensive lineman are more like likely to contribute early, but it seems like you have to be patient with defensive lineman. Which would explain why we never draft them actually.

So, the reason that multiple regimes of the Redskins have drafted 6 DLmen in the last 30 Redskins' drafts is because we can't be patient with them?

[shally]

Yeah rookie offensive lineman are more like likely to contribute early, but it seems like you have to be patient with defensive lineman. Which would explain why we never draft them actually.

which makes me think they will sign a free agent DT (haye, bernard??)
and then draft an OL to develop for next year

or course, they could easily do the opposite and sign someone like gross or birk, but that would mean sitting someone like heyer or rabach or not re signing kendall (who will likely make it easy for them to re sign him)

actually, what they will do is draft a LB number 1, leaving us all gritting our teeth..

[shally]

So, the reason that multiple regimes of the Redskins have drafted 6 DLmen in the last 30 Redskins' drafts is because we can't be patient with them?

whereas, they have spent a kings ransom on gilbert, stubbabubba, big daddy, russell, gardener, holsey, taylor, daniels, wynn, carter, haley, griffin, and others...

that should tell you what we will do... sign bernard or haye and then draft OL or LB...

einsteins definition of insanity... the d line is fine.. the d line is fine..

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

which makes me think they will sign a free agent DT (haye, bernard??)
and then draft an OL to develop for next year

or course, they could easily do the opposite and sign someone like gross or birk, but that would mean sitting someone like heyer or rabach or not re signing kendall (who will likely make it easy for them to re sign him)

actually, what they will do is draft a LB number 1, leaving us all gritting our teeth..
The only way I would support drafting a LB with our #1 pick is:
1. we didn't sign one in FA
2. By some miracle of God, Aaron Curry fell to us.

Otherwise Oline or Dline has to be the first pick (or trade down and still draft one).

[Nomad]

It seems like it takes a little while to develop young defensive ends, true or false?

I can't think of many recent rookies (Although I know Chris Long is doing well despite his team sucking), but I thought they usually take at least a year. Mario Williams?

That is why good teams draft and groom replacements.
We're so far from that it is laughable--except at TE.

[shally]

The only way I would support drafting a LB with our #1 pick is:
1. we didn't sign one in FA
2. By some miracle of God, Aaron Curry fell to us.

Otherwise Oline or Dline has to be the first pick (or trade down and still draft one).

curry wont fall to us, although the USC linebackers are going to push some folks back a little.

otah
baker
clady

have all started and played well from the start of the season (baker has been hurt some).. so there are OL who could provide immediate help

[skinsfan36]

whereas, they have spent a kings ransom on gilbert, stubbabubba, big daddy, russell, gardener, holsey, taylor, daniels, wynn, carter, haley, griffin, and others...

that should tell you what we will do... sign bernard or haye and then draft OL or LB...

einsteins definition of insanity... the d line is fine.. the d line is fine..

probably will sign one of them im fine with it as long as we draft michael johnson with our 1st pick or alex mack

[shally]

probably will sign one of them im fine with it as long as we draft michael johnson with our 1st pick or alex mack

agree.. we will probably make a push for haynesworth, and then draft for the o line

[Lacquer Head]

For the record, not everyone from Richmond, VA is a foaming at the mouth jackass.

On topic, the defense is not the problem! When the offense can't sustain drives and keep the D resting on the sideline, you will see exactly what you saw this year: flagging D in the 4th quarter as everyone wears down. The Bengals game is the exception. Every team has bad games (see the 91 super bowl skins losing to the 1-15 Cowboys!!)

I agree that we gave up too much against mediocre/bad teams, but then we go out and hold better teams to fewer points. That just confuses the bejesus out of me.

Still, if the offense could manage its 17-20 points a game, we are playoff bound. The defense is not the problem.

And Akh, you use the word crappy defense like you weren't around in 2006. THAT was a crappy defense. Our defense is overrated but it's not crappy. We're one great pass rusher away from being top shelf, be that a healthy Taylor or whoever.

[akhhorus]

For the record, not everyone from Richmond, VA is a foaming at the mouth jackass.

On topic, the defense is not the problem! When the offense can't sustain drives and keep the D resting on the sideline, you will see exactly what you saw this year: flagging D in the 4th quarter as everyone wears down. The Bengals game is the exception. Every team has bad games (see the 91 super bowl skins losing to the 1-15 Cowboys!!)

I agree that we gave up too much against mediocre/bad teams, but then we go out and hold better teams to fewer points. That just confuses the bejesus out of me.

Still, if the offense could manage its 17-20 points a game, we are playoff bound. The defense is not the problem.

Its all about coaching and matchups(which goes back to coaching).


And Akh, you use the word crappy defense like you weren't around in 2006. THAT was a crappy defense. Our defense is overrated but it's not crappy. We're one great pass rusher away from being top shelf, be that a healthy Taylor or whoever.

You're right, this defense is better than the 2006 version, but their inconsistent success in the 2nd half of the season seems to be more about sheer talent(and a bit of luck, like the 2 fluky ints of Romo in the 2nd dallas game stalling their offense) instead of coaching. When they aren't able to make a play through sheer talent/luck, opposing offenses seem to have little problem driving on them. What really concerns me about this defense is 3 things:
1-The complete and total lack of a pass rush along with Blache's apparent indifference to this issue(despite the defense looking much better when they get a push).
2-Blache's terrible and slow adjustments. This is something we've seen all season long. Blache takes a good quarter and a half to make in-game adjustments and that a killer in the 4th quarter--and he takes a long time making personnel adjustments.
3-Loyalty to washed up vets like Griffin, Washington, Reed and Springs. Don't be shocked if all four are back next year.

[Nomad]

For the record, not everyone from Richmond, VA is a foaming at the mouth jackass.

On topic, the defense is not the problem! When the offense can't sustain drives and keep the D resting on the sideline, you will see exactly what you saw this year: flagging D in the 4th quarter as everyone wears down. The Bengals game is the exception. Every team has bad games (see the 91 super bowl skins losing to the 1-15 Cowboys!!)

I agree that we gave up too much against mediocre/bad teams, but then we go out and hold better teams to fewer points. That just confuses the bejesus out of me.

Still, if the offense could manage its 17-20 points a game, we are playoff bound. The defense is not the problem.

And Akh, you use the word crappy defense like you weren't around in 2006. THAT was a crappy defense. Our defense is overrated but it's not crappy. We're one great pass rusher away from being top shelf, be that a healthy Taylor or whoever.

1. Offense is a greater need than D.
2. We still have no pass rush. Even if you wanted to believe Taylor will have a monster year next year, he's gone after that most likely. The Giants have 2-4 sweet pass rushers, as does every other major contender. We don't have a single good pass rusher, much less the 2- 3 most contenders have. This leads to a defense that is statistically top-10, but which, when you look at it over long haul, gets owned by elite QBs. We will NEVER get over the hump and win a SB until this is addressed. So while I agree we need a pass rush, a sustainable one that is good season in season out, and even when someone gets injured, relies on sustained drafting of rushers over a long term period. You have at least one good DE, a penetrating DT, ideally a decent other DE, plus depth behind them.
3. How many times have we heard we are just (insert player, or position) away from being top shelf. We are three solid drafts a complement of picks from being top shelf. We will never have the picks, and Cerrato is drafting even if he didn't trade them all away. Nuff said.

[akhhorus]

1. Offense is a greater need than D.
2. We still have no pass rush. Even if you wanted to believe Taylor will have a monster year next year, he's gone after that most likely. The Giants have 2-4 sweet pass rushers, as does every other major contender. We don't have a single good pass rusher, much less the 2- 3 most contenders have. This leads to a defense that is statistically top-10, but which, when you look at it over long haul, gets owned by elite QBs. We will NEVER get over the hump and win a SB until this is addressed. So while I agree we need a pass rush, a sustainable one that is good season in season out, and even when someone gets injured, relies on sustained drafting of rushers over a long term period. You have at least one good DE, a penetrating DT, ideally a decent other DE, plus depth behind them.

The problem with the pass rush isn't talent, its coaching.

3. How many times have we heard we are just (insert player, or position) away from being top shelf.

Anyone who actually follows the NFL would know that any team could be a contender any year. There's just no way to know who will catch lightning in a bottle in any given year. Running a franchise on the premise of avoiding moves on the grounds that they think they aren't anywhere close to being a contender makes zero sense after seeing teams like the Giants, Titans, Ravens, Dolphins and Panthers go from non-playoff to being serious contenders out of nowhere.

We are three solid drafts a complement of picks from being top shelf. We will never have the picks, and Cerrato is drafting even if he didn't trade them all away. Nuff said.

The skins did exactly what you're complaining about them not doing this past offseason, and still you complain.

[skins4life24]

both ryan clady and jeff otah have started at tackle from the start and are doing well...add that to jake long and you have 3 who have done well... on the other hand brandon albert (injury) brown (houston) and cherilus have started or struggled

on the d line, if you start someone, they are likely to struggle.. spot them, and i think you can get productivity

these are all high prospects 2 Long and Clady are top 10 you can't assume that by getting younger the players we are getting will have anywhere near the impact that these players did

[shally]

these are all high prospects 2 Long and Clady are top 10 you can't assume that by getting younger the players we are getting will have anywhere near the impact that these players did

no, but otah, brown and baker were farther down in the round and they are doing just fine at the end of the round.. cherilus ? who knows what a number the detroit coaching staff has done on him ?

[skinsfan36]

no, but otah, brown and baker were farther down in the round and they are doing just fine at the end of the round.. cherilus ? who knows what a number the detroit coaching staff has done on him ?

who knows lol. hey shally what do you think it would take to sign haynesworth ill say 5 year 42 million

[akhhorus]

who knows lol. hey shally what do you think it would take to sign haynesworth ill say 5 year 42 million

The bidding for Haynesworth will probably start at 60-70 million. You're not going to get him for slightly more than what Andre Carter got.

[skins4life24]

The bidding for Haynesworth will probably start at 60-70 million. You're not going to get him for slightly more than what Andre Carter got.

and with our luck we will pay that money and have another dana stubblefield on our hands

[shally]

The bidding for Haynesworth will probably start at 60-70 million. You're not going to get him for slightly more than what Andre Carter got.


i think you are going to see the perfect storm with haynesworth, and maybe peppers.. i could see upwards of 80 million... there are only2 guys who are
in the truly elite category coming out this year. one at end and one at tackle.
and the giants have certainly turned the focus on the def line

i think the bigger surprise is going to be what a next tier guys like bertrand berry
or chris canty gets.. that is going to surprise a lot of people. the same way the number that dockery got shocked a lot of people..

also, there will be some teams that roll the dice and guess that without the cap, they will be able to put together whatever they want, and then dump some contracts without eating up a huge portion of their cap

2009 is going to be a very uncertain year and teams are going to either hedge, or go one way or the other, depending upon how their own financial situation is, and how they perceive the cap ending up..
who knows lol. hey shally what do you think it would take to sign haynesworth ill say 5 year 42 million

much higher than that, i believe. perhaps even double... nothing would surprise me this offseason

[akhhorus]

i think you are going to see the perfect storm with haynesworth, and maybe peppers.. i could see upwards of 80 million... there are only2 guys who are
in the truly elite category coming out this year. one at end and one at tackle.
and the giants have certainly turned the focus on the def line

i think the bigger surprise is going to be what a next tier guys like bertrand berry
or chris canty gets.. that is going to surprise a lot of people. the same way the number that dockery got shocked a lot of people..

also, there will be some teams that roll the dice and guess that without the cap, they will be able to put together whatever they want, and then dump some contracts without eating up a huge portion of their cap

2009 is going to be a very uncertain year and teams are going to either hedge, or go one way or the other, depending upon how their own financial situation is, and how they perceive the cap ending up..


I don't think so unless the owners know something we don't about the CBA. Pep and Haynesworth will get their cash, but the 2nd and 3rd tier guys won't unless teams believe that there won't be a cap.

and with our luck we will pay that money and have another dana stubblefield on our hands

We're not going to pay that money. First off, Snyder doesn't shell out that much for FA. Second, Greg Blache thinks all is well with the defense.

[shally]

and with our luck we will pay that money and have another dana stubblefield on our hands

huge risk for any team signing haynesworth.. also, he came close to having his season ended last week .. that is what happened to stacy andrews ( T - cincy) he wrecked his knee and will need reconstructive surgery. that is going to knock a huge hole in what he could have gotten this offseason

i think that haynesworth is a much better overall prospect than stubba-bubba was.. but for one year, stubba was incredible. watch and see what tennessee does. they had no problems maintaining pressure without haynesworth this past week. they could go young and let haynesworth walk, and use that money to find a qb to replace collins after next year ?? i could see them making a real run at cassell and letting young and AH both go..

[shally]

I don't think so unless the owners know something we don't about the CBA. Pep and Haynesworth will get their cash, but the 2nd and 3rd tier guys won't unless teams believe that there won't be a cap.



We're not going to pay that money. First off, Snyder doesn't shell out that much for FA. Second, Greg Blache thinks all is well with the defense.

i dont know about that.. i still think we are going to be surprised by the size of deals going to second tier guys..

you have idiots like arizona, who will let berry walk and then pay someone like canty twice what he is worth.. cleveland will do that also.

and we wont overpay for a DL, but watch what we pay for someone like gross, or even birk..

[akhhorus]

i dont know about that.. i still think we are going to be surprised by the size of deals going to second tier guys..

you have idiots like arizona, who will let berry walk and then pay someone like canty twice what he is worth.. cleveland will do that also.

No way. Canty isn't producing even in his walk year. No one is going to give him much money(The Cards have Calais Campbell and Alan Branch on the sidelines also). Berry is an established pass rusher, so he might draw 20ish mil.

and we wont overpay for a DL, but watch what we pay for someone like gross, or even birk..

If Blache is still DC, I would be surprised if we signed anyone of note or drafted any new Dlinemen. I do see us going after Gross.

[shally]

No way. Canty isn't producing even in his walk year. No one is going to give him much money(The Cards have Calais Campbell and Alan Branch on the sidelines also). Berry is an established pass rusher, so he might draw 20ish mil.



If Blache is still DC, I would be surprised if we signed anyone of note or drafted any new Dlinemen. I do see us going after Gross.

i think that any defensive lineman is being taken with exactly that understanding-- that blache will ignore them for at least 2-3 years..
i do think we will at least draft another "rob jackson".. or vinnie will have to cancel his radio show for all the abuse he is going to collect from fans

as far as offensive linemen, we have aquired kendall, thomas, rabach, not to mention wade and fabini- over the years.. we have also drafted samuels, dockery and reinhart in the third round or better.. so i would not be at all surprised if we draft an O lineman in the first round.. or trade down and draft one in rounds 2 or 3..

carolina has only peppers and gross who will be big ticket re signings. if they dont re sign peppers, they will without a doubt re-sign gross with the money they save.. even if they do sign peppers to a new deal, most of the people who live in carolina are saying that gross remains a very high priority for them to re-sign

the wild card for carolina is owner richardson's health. he is on the list for a heart transplant, and that kind of uncertainlty can spill over onto off season strategy..

on the other hand, if gross lasts to march 1, or whatever the first day, i can see snyder going all out to get him. it is not lost on him that Campbell is only as good as his offensive line will let him be. that will be priority 1 for the team. we simply cannot afford for the offense to sputter on for another year due to deteriorating line play..

[shally]

No way. Canty isn't producing even in his walk year. No one is going to give him much money(The Cards have Calais Campbell and Alan Branch on the sidelines also). Berry is an established pass rusher, so he might draw 20ish mil.



If Blache is still DC, I would be surprised if we signed anyone of note or drafted any new Dlinemen. I do see us going after Gross.

i am already enriching your bourbon stock too much (plaxico is sabotaging his freedom daily, it seems, lol).. otherwise i would tap into your enmity of all things Canty and bet you he will sign for twice what you think he will sign for..lol

[akhhorus]

i think that any defensive lineman is being taken with exactly that understanding-- that blache will ignore them for at least 2-3 years..
i do think we will at least draft another "rob jackson".. or vinnie will have to cancel his radio show for all the abuse he is going to collect from fans


We'll see. I'm not hopeful.

as far as offensive linemen, we have aquired kendall, thomas, rabach, not to mention wade and fabini- over the years.. we have also drafted samuels, dockery and reinhart in the third round or better.. so i would not be at all surprised if we draft an O lineman in the first round.. or trade down and draft one in rounds 2 or 3..

Depends on who we get in FA. I could see the Skins doing both.

carolina has only peppers and gross who will be big ticket re signings. if they dont re sign peppers, they will without a doubt re-sign gross with the money they save.. even if they do sign peppers to a new deal, most of the people who live in carolina are saying that gross remains a very high priority for them to re-sign

They'll keep Peppers. Now that they have Otah, they could always move Wharton back to OG and find a new guard to save the cash.

the wild card for carolina is owner richardson's health. he is on the list for a heart transplant, and that kind of uncertainlty can spill over onto off season strategy..

Very true, but he's been sick for awhile and their GM has been in charge.

on the other hand, if gross lasts to march 1, or whatever the first day, i can see snyder going all out to get him. it is not lost on him that Campbell is only as good as his offensive line will let him be. that will be priority 1 for the team. we simply cannot afford for the offense to sputter on for another year due to deteriorating line play..

Agreed.

[shally]

We'll see. I'm not hopeful.



Depends on who we get in FA. I could see the Skins doing both.



They'll keep Peppers. Now that they have Otah, they could always move Wharton back to OG and find a new guard to save the cash.



Very true, but he's been sick for awhile and their GM has been in charge.



Agreed.

the problem with the defensive line is that as long as blache is in charge, he will continuously point to his gaudy #4 overall ranking and say "see ? i told you we dont need no stinkin pass rush..."
most of us can see through that kind of crap, but it has resonance, apparently, in the front office.

as long as the offense is truly impaired, he gives the appearance of holding up his end of the bargain.. at least this year, if we had averaged about 22 points a game on offense, we would have solidly been a playoff team (at least statistically). so what can anyone say to blache to move him off his position ?

i think he knows he needs another linebacker or two. that will be the focus of this offseason on defense, along with the retention of hall and the return of springs.. our safety rotation is likely to be landry, horton, an improving moore and springs. no need to keep either green or doughty. smoot and tryon return to battle over the dime position with the loser the number 5 corner

i firmly believe he is counting on the return of daniels, some improvement in montgomery, and steady play from golston and evans to provide him with a line that does what he wants when combined with carter and taylor.. out of wilson, jackson and buzbee he probably figures he can get one decent reserve end... where is he going to accommodate another high draft pick ? oh, wait, he might have to dump boschetti..:) or perhaps griffin really doesnt have much left in him and decides to call it a career ?

i think next year, we see the same actors along the d line with the return of daniels and some shuffling along the minor players like wilson, buzbee and jackson. a return to the playoffs will rest in the hands of the offense

[akhhorus]

the problem with the defensive line is that as long as blache is in charge, he will continuously point to his gaudy #4 overall ranking and say "see ? i told you we dont need no stinkin pass rush..."
most of us can see through that kind of crap, but it has resonance, apparently, in the front office.

Re-reading the thread about it, maybe you should say 'some of us' lol, but you're right. Blache will get whatever he wants, no matter how absurd.

as long as the offense is truly impaired, he gives the appearance of holding up his end of the bargain.. at least this year, if we had averaged about 22 points a game on offense, we would have solidly been a playoff team (at least statistically). so what can anyone say to blache to move him off his position ?

"Why didn't you stop the Bengals again, Greg?"

i think he knows he needs another linebacker or two. that will be the focus of this offseason. i firmly believe he is counting on the return of daniels, some improvement in montgomery, and steady play from golston and evans to provide him with a line that does what he wants when combined with carter and taylor.. out of wilson, jackson and buzbee he probably figures he can get one decent reserve end... where is he going to accommodate another high draft pick ? oh, wait, he might have to dump boschetti..:) or perhaps griffin really doesnt have much left in him and decides to call it a career ?


I fully expect the status quo from Blache at most.

i think next year, we see the same actors along the d line with the return of daniels and some shuffling along the minor players like wilson, buzbee and jackson. a return to the playoffs will rest in the hands of the offense

Then we're effectively doomed, because I doubt Zorn will make the right decisions either. This whole franchise is stuck in the game theory of principals making the choice to do nothing because there's less risk.

[shally]

Re-reading the thread about it, maybe you should say 'some of us' lol, but you're right. Blache will get whatever he wants, no matter how absurd.



"Why didn't you stop the Bengals again, Greg?"



I fully expect the status quo from Blache at most.



Then we're effectively doomed, because I doubt Zorn will make the right decisions either. This whole franchise is stuck in the game theory of principals making the choice to do nothing because there's less risk.

about the bengals and rams, blache comes back with " you idiots on offense should have rung up 30 points on both the bengals and rams . if you had done that we would be 11-5. not only that, my defense stopped the eagles with 3 f***** points ! i did my job. do yours on offense and dont come whining to me. time and again, we gave the offense the ball in great field position and you morons couldnt even get a field goal out of it... get out of my face and dont come back until you get me two linebackers..." that's how it would go and vinnie and zorn would slink out of there with their collective tails between their legs..

i think that zorn is actually a better coach, or WILL be a better coach in year 2, than a lot of people give him credit for.. the front office will get him horses for the o line.. if he is smart, he also asks for a scat back and a true veteran receiver to replace ARE.. even if he doesnt, just getting zorn a solid offensive line should allow him to have the offense looking a lot more like the team that went 6-2, than the team that went 1-5..davis and kelly are going to be weapons next year.. thomas ? the next 50/50.. still we need a player like engram or toomer as a security blanket for Campbell

the real problem is that next year we will finally get a look at what the real Campbell looks like. if he can progress to a qb who is not just steady, but who can actually win games for us, we will make the playoffs. if he is not up to it, it probably means a total tear down at the end of next year.. we better hope for an uncapped year in 2010.. or that holmgren or cowher are ready to jump back into coaching...

[akhhorus]

about the bengals and rams, blache comes back with " you idiots on offense should have rung up 30 points on both the bengals and rams . if you had done that we would be 11-5. not only that, my defense stopped the eagles with 3 f***** points ! i did my job. do yours on offense and dont come whining to me. time and again, we gave the offense the ball in great field position and you morons couldnt even get a field goal out of it... get out of my face and dont come back until you get me two linebackers..." that's how it would go and vinnie and zorn would slink out of there with their collective tails between their legs..


Someone with a backbone would point out that the Rams took 3 games to make it into their opponents' red zone or that the Bengals scored 16 points in the 3 games before they played us.

i think that zorn is actually a better coach, or WILL be a better coach in year 2, than a lot of people give him credit for.. the front office will get him horses for the o line.. if he is smart, he also asks for a scat back and a true veteran receiver to replace ARE.. even if he doesnt, just getting zorn a solid offensive line should allow him to have the offense looking a lot more like the team that went 6-2, than the team that went 1-5..davis and kelly are going to be weapons next year.. thomas ? the next 50/50.. still we need a player like engram or toomer as a security blanket for Campbell

He needs help on the Oline and to get Santana Moss to start hanging out with PacMan.

the real problem is that next year we will finally get a look at what the real Campbell looks like. if he can progress to a qb who is not just steady, but who can actually win games for us, we will make the playoffs. if he is not up to it, it probably means a total tear down at the end of next year.. we better hope for an uncapped year in 2010.. or that holmgren or cowher are ready to jump back into coaching...

If we do nothing to fix the WR corps for Campbell, we won't get a good idea of his talents next year either.

[shally]

Someone with a backbone would point out that the Rams took 3 games to make it into their opponents' red zone or that the Bengals scored 16 points in the 3 games before they played us.



He needs help on the Oline and to get Santana Moss to start hanging out with PacMan.



If we do nothing to fix the WR corps for Campbell, we won't get a good idea of his talents next year either.

i am no fan of blache's, but until the offense is top 10 or better, or the defense is bottom 5, there is nothing anyone can do about him.. it has long been a maxim in the nfl that you can fix one side of the ball if you commit to it, but it is very difficult to fix both sides of the ball at the same time... in this case, i will settle for zorn getting the offense into the top 15 overall, and blache can do whatever he wants for next year...

i dont think it is wishful thinking that we get at least significant productivity out of at least one of kelly, thomas or davis. add that to a consistent cooley, a reasonably healthy portis and at least ONE veteran receiver and i think that Campbell no longer has an excuse, no matter what moss or ARE do. tennesse has less than that at receiver right now. they have made do with a very good running game, solid offensive line, strong defense and collins. i will hear no more excuses about JC next year, as long as they get him a solid offensive line.
at some point he has to grow a pair and produce. and that time is next year.
it is his contract year and if he flops the howls for Colt or Collins or anyone will go over the top...

[Rogers_Redskins]

If you are the owner of a NFL franchise that does not make the playoffs, I think you ask for improvement out of every area on your team, there is not status quo. There us always room for improvement on all sides of the ball.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

It would be nice if Taylor and Moss restructured.

[akhhorus]

i am no fan of blache's, but until the offense is top 10 or better, or the defense is bottom 5, there is nothing anyone can do about him.. it has long been a maxim in the nfl that you can fix one side of the ball if you commit to it, but it is very difficult to fix both sides of the ball at the same time... in this case, i will settle for zorn getting the offense into the top 15 overall, and blache can do whatever he wants for next year...

Even when the defense struggles, there's no accountability here.

i dont think it is wishful thinking that we get at least significant productivity out of at least one of kelly, thomas or davis. add that to a consistent cooley, a reasonably healthy portis and at least ONE veteran receiver and i think that Campbell no longer has an excuse, no matter what moss or ARE do. tennesse has less than that at receiver right now. they have made do with a very good running game, solid offensive line, strong defense and collins. i will hear no more excuses about JC next year, as long as they get him a solid offensive line.

I disagree: as long as Campbell has to anchors of Moss and ARE as his starting WRs, he'll never get a true shot at showing his worth.

at some point he has to grow a pair and produce. and that time is next year.
it is his contract year and if he flops the howls for Colt or Collins or anyone will go over the top...

If he flops next year, we'll be in a position to draft Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford, we aren't going to Colt Brennan ever, unless Collins and Campbell go down.

[dfbb110]

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[BurnEm 26]

[QUOTE=shally;1184931]about the bengals and rams, blache comes back with " you idiots on offense should have rung up 30 points on both the bengals and rams . if you had done that we would be 11-5. not only that, my defense stopped the eagles with 3 f***** points ! i did my job. do yours on offense and dont come whining to me. time and again, we gave the offense the ball in great field position and you morons couldnt even get a field goal out of it... get out of my face and dont come back until you get me two linebackers..." that's how it would go and vinnie and zorn would slink out of there with their collective tails between their legs..

Excellent point Mr. Blache! :)

[Dolla Bill]

Even when the defense struggles, there's no accountability here.



I disagree: as long as Campbell has to anchors of Moss and ARE as his starting WRs, he'll never get a true shot at showing his worth.



If he flops next year, we'll be in a position to draft Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford, we aren't going to Colt Brennan ever, unless Collins and Campbell go down.

Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford? You mean, Sam Bradford, right? What makes Colt McCoy a legitimate top 10 draft pick? He plays in the same spread offense Superman, I mean Tebow plays in. I just don't see it.

[lorimike]

defensive rankings can be misleading. I see we are ranked near the top in defense but we struggle to stop teams when we need to and struggle to get sacks. Teams play conservatively against us because they know our offense is hardly a threat to put points on the board. This makes our defense ranking better than what it should be.

[akhhorus]

Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford? You mean, Sam Bradford, right? What makes Colt McCoy a legitimate top 10 draft pick? He plays in the same spread offense Superman, I mean Tebow plays in. I just don't see it.

I agree, but if Campbell's not the answer, Snyderatto will talk themselves into a rookie QB like McCoy, Snead or Bradford.

[shally]

[QUOTE=shally;1184931]about the bengals and rams, blache comes back with " you idiots on offense should have rung up 30 points on both the bengals and rams . if you had done that we would be 11-5. not only that, my defense stopped the eagles with 3 f***** points ! i did my job. do yours on offense and dont come whining to me. time and again, we gave the offense the ball in great field position and you morons couldnt even get a field goal out of it... get out of my face and dont come back until you get me two linebackers..." that's how it would go and vinnie and zorn would slink out of there with their collective tails between their legs..

Excellent point Mr. Blache! :)

i am NO fan of blache's.. on the other hand, you cant ask your defense to win every game for you.. they have not given up 24 points to any opponent this year.. that means the offense could have won every game with an above average effort. they never did.

still, letting teams like dallas, balt and cincy run out the clock and letting the rams beat us with a desperation pass cuts the legs out from under much of the defense's arguments..

[shally]

I agree, but if Campbell's not the answer, Snyderatto will talk themselves into a rookie QB like McCoy, Snead or Bradford.

the only other option besides another college phenom is someone like cassell-- who will cost a mint without a guarantee... or a series of caretaker qb's like garcia, gus, gannon, leftwich , collins hoping to go the trent dilfer route-- or joe gibbs route, for that matter