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Nomad
01-08-2009, 03:13 PM
Writer's block, so going to fritter some time on a mockable draft.

Our picks:

1st -
2nd - Jason Taylor trade
3rd -
4th - Pete Kendall trade
5th -
6th -
7th - Erasmus James
7th - Optimistically assume we got a comp

Not going to beat this drum too hard, but this is sickening. How does Vinny Cerrato have a job? One can often find quality G/C in 4th round. We traded a 4th for a soon to be retired G. Good teams like the Giants find starting DEs with high 2nd round picks, we trade a 2nd (and 6th next year), for a soon to be retired RDE we play at LDE. Erasmus James is tough to criticize, may have been an acceptable risk, but like most of what Cerrato does, it didn't pan out. You look at all three of these trades, and ask if the Ravens, or Parcells would have made them, the answer is flat out, no way. (Not referring to Parcells fleecing us.) The difference, once again, between stopgaps, and long term contributors. Lots of people defended the Taylor trade at the time, and still defend the Kendall trade. I don't. Even if Taylor lit it up, which he didn't, we weren't a contender, and we should be drafting to find long term starters.

You can bet your arse Parcells will draft a long term starter with our second round pick, and that pick will be playing for a decade after Taylor retires.

My assesment of the team:

1. Defense top-5, but can't rush passer and beat top-notch QBs, and has depth issues at DL and LB. I address DL this year, get by with stopgaps for another year.

2. Offense needs an entire OL, a true change of pace back for Portis, and a true #1 WR. And possibly a QB, but we won't know that until Campbell finally gets year two in the same system.

3. We need a punter, a kicker, a punt returner, and depending on #2 above, a kick returner. We should bring in every undrafted college FA P & K on earth, and give Brooks another shot, and find someone young.

My basic philosophy: This team is at least 2 years from being a contender, plan that way. Don't trade ANY picks. Trade older, declining players for picks. Don't sign any big name, big salaried free agent who is older than 26, period. Jordan Gross wil be 29 at the start of the season next year, Haynesworth 28. Haynesworth in particular has some injury issues, gets the snot beat out of him with constant double teams, and will command almost 10M a year. No thanks. In 2 years when we're competitive, he'll be 30, and may very well be worn down and more injury prone but uncuttable. Just like our current situation in other words. Same for Gross. Jansen was totally healthy and dominant until his late 20s. No, the same thing won't necessarily happen to Gross, but I want to replace our 32 year old RT with a 22 - 24 year old RT, not a 29 year old RT. We need to get significantly younger, not replace older players with other nearly-old players. So I'll pass on Haynesworth, Gross, and anyone else who isn't mid 20s or younger. I also have no interest in signing Housh, who is 31.

If I'm stuck at #13: I take either a franchise LT, or DE, possibly a DT. My philosophy is that out of what we need, LT or DE are the two hardest positions to fill (also QB and CB, but we shouldn't be drafting there). I take the BPA out of these three. I'm not drafting a G that projects to tackle, or a G or C, this high. If a true franchise LT is available, and I can trade down, I take the franchise tackle rather than trade down, but only if it is a dominant T. Samuels is hurt more and more. If he goes down for any extended period of time, our season is over, as we have NO depth. Yeah, you can say that about any team, but we also have no RT. Draft Samuel's replacement, and play him at RT. We should cut Taylor and trade Carter, but we won't, so we have 2 RDEs, and no true LDE, at least not a young one. Evans is 29! If a naturally large LDE is available, take him. No tweeners! Someone who is naturally at least 275. Not 260 but could bulk up, but 270 lbs or more right this second, with the ability to maybe add 10 more lbs. No high pick should be spent on anyone with major known injury issues, or character issues (Kelly had both, again, how does Vinny have a job?). I understand that DT may be a greater need, but elite DEs are simply harder to find than DTs. In general, I favor OL over DL because D has remained respectable, and bad DL play doesn't get your franchise QB hurt, bad OL play does, especially Ts.

If I can trade down the #13, I do, ideally twice, once lower in 1st round, once out of 1st round into second. This may be a pipe dream. If I traded down once, depending how low I slid, I would first look for LDE or RT. If none, DT. If none, G or C, which would certainly be there.

Every other pick in the draft would be a lineman, D or O, except maybe a LB or WR with late pick. We need a PR and have production issues at WR, so a later pick on this if someone with potential I would risk. We also have no depth at LB once MW gone, same deal there.

I think long term, Portis will get less and less durable. You need a change of pace back, but we can't afford that this year. You have to take the hit, scuttle either Betts or Rock, and get someone Ds fear to spell Portis. He has to be used more sparingly early on so he isn't beat to hell at the end of every year. But that may not be possible this year.

People focus on need, but we aren't winning the SB next year either. No, I'm not a hater, and spare me the any year can be anyone's year drivel always used to defend our horrendous trades. We need to come out of this draft, at a minimum, with 2 solid OLs that can start or contribute, and a DT or LDE. Play the board, what is there is there.

Having said that, this means Cerrato will draft a CB, 2 LBs, 1 OL, 1 DL.

Ideally, Cerrato would trade Moss, Carter, etc., and rebuild, but that is a pipe dream.

Finally, we need a change of philosophy that emphasizes youth, giving young players with potential a shot rather than dogmatically clinging to dinosaurs. Crummey should have been on our roster, someone older cut. When we see young players with a spark, take a chance on them and scuttle the dinosaurs. Do that year in year out, you end up with 2-3 starters who are diamonds in the rough.

All this factors into the way you draft and resign. People say resign Kendall. Why? It is a sheer act of will for him to get through the season with his knees. Give a guy like Crummey a shot, rather than hanging onto guys who are on the downward slide of their career. I would have cut Kendall last year, and told Crummey, Geisinger, and Rinehart, one of you is starting, and whoever does will get a 500K bonus. I would have traded Betts and given Mason a shot at RB. This may have backfired, but to me Betts is nothing special, we need someone GOOD to spell Portis. Any one of these decisions may have been bad, but in aggregate that would have resulted in a younger, developing roster. And it goes without saying I never would have frittered a 2nd round pick on mid-30s Jason Taylor. If we had valued picks and gone young, we would have that second round pick, we could draft a RT with 1st round pick, a G or C with 2nd, a DT/DE with 4th. Then our OL would be: Samuels, Heyer, RT drafted, G drafted, Crummey, Rinehart, Thomas, Rabach, Geisenger. Maybe all don't pan out, but we are young and developing rather than ancient. Coulda, shoulda, woulda.

Note I didn't mention any specific players, as this is almost impossibly speculative after FA and the combine, much less before it.

Mock away!

akhhorus
01-08-2009, 03:22 PM
So, this isn't a mock draft at all, but just another statement of your philosophy?

And Carter has a no-trade clause.

Lavar703
01-08-2009, 03:28 PM
If a LT like Jason Smith falls to us, it will be an act of god, because we should almost certainly be able to trade that choice to detroit for there first and second round picks. I have it as an update in my mock draft that we will trade our pick to detroit who would jump up from 20th to 13th and select Jason Smith to almost certainly protect Matt Staffords blindside. Then we choose Duke Robinson with our first pick at 20 and Clint Sintim with our second choice, which would be the first pick in the second round. And then with our third we could select Max Unger to take over for Casey Rabach and it would give us an OL that would look like this

LT-Samuels
LG- Chad Rhinehart
C-Max Unger
RG-Duke Robinson
RT-Stephon Heyer

And if were terrible next season then we draft a Tackle who will eventually take over for Samuels. At some point we have to see what Brennan has aswell, if for nothing more than to create some sort of trade value for him.

Nomad
01-08-2009, 05:04 PM
If a LT like Jason Smith falls to us, it will be an act of god, because we should almost certainly be able to trade that choice to detroit for there first and second round picks. I have it as an update in my mock draft that we will trade our pick to detroit who would jump up from 20th to 13th and select Jason Smith to almost certainly protect Matt Staffords blindside. Then we choose Duke Robinson with our first pick at 20 and Clint Sintim with our second choice, which would be the first pick in the second round. And then with our third we could select Max Unger to take over for Casey Rabach and it would give us an OL that would look like this

LT-Samuels
LG- Chad Rhinehart
C-Max Unger
RG-Duke Robinson
RT-Stephon Heyer

And if were terrible next season then we draft a Tackle who will eventually take over for Samuels. At some point we have to see what Brennan has aswell, if for nothing more than to create some sort of trade value for him.

I don't think Unger is there that late. Beyond that, I don't know enough to know, and good stuff. It is very fun and interesting to try and predict what teams will do. Detroit has so many holes, you' think they'd keep picks, but how can you draft a QB and leave him unprotected? What do we do with Thomas? Except for Portis, doesn't he have highest cap cut number?

Nomad
01-08-2009, 05:06 PM
So, this isn't a mock draft at all, but just another statement of your philosophy?

And Carter has a no-trade clause.

Good to hear from you as always.
Of course he does. Our FO is just unbelievable.

Lavar703
01-08-2009, 07:37 PM
I don't think Unger is there that late. Beyond that, I don't know enough to know, and good stuff. It is very fun and interesting to try and predict what teams will do. Detroit has so many holes, you' think they'd keep picks, but how can you draft a QB and leave him unprotected? What do we do with Thomas? Except for Portis, doesn't he have highest cap cut number?

Under my plan we would allow Kendall to walk and cut ties with Johnson, Jansen and Rabach. Unger may not be there, but if he is we will take him, if hes not then we will most likely take the next best thing at center. Robinson is a beast at G, at 6'6" 330 he would dominate. I would love for us to get Sintim though, even if we trade back and pick him up it would be awesome. I honestly think this trade with Detroit could happen.

skinsfan36
01-08-2009, 10:01 PM
Under my plan we would allow Kendall to walk and cut ties with Johnson, Jansen and Rabach. Unger may not be there, but if he is we will take him, if hes not then we will most likely take the next best thing at center. Robinson is a beast at G, at 6'6" 330 he would dominate. I would love for us to get Sintim though, even if we trade back and pick him up it would be awesome. I honestly think this trade with Detroit could happen.

center this year
1st rounders
alex mack(best c prospect in yrs)
max unger(can play all 5 line positions)

then a dropoff to andre caldwell,and luigs(? arkansas)

the oklahoma center is a projected 6th rounder but seems decent right now

Moe
01-09-2009, 09:43 AM
...Robinson is a beast at G, at 6'6" 330 he would dominate.

Dude stuggled last night. In fact number 8 on Florida terrorized that allegedly dominant left side most of the night.

akhhorus
01-09-2009, 10:10 AM
Dude stuggled last night. In fact number 8 on Florida terrorized that allegedly dominant left side most of the night.

That would be the traitorous dog Carlos Dunlap.

Lavar703
01-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Dude stuggled last night. In fact number 8 on Florida terrorized that allegedly dominant left side most of the night.

I would still take him at 13 or if we traded down, just my opinon though

Lavar703
01-09-2009, 11:00 AM
center this year
1st rounders
alex mack(best c prospect in yrs)
max unger(can play all 5 line positions)

then a dropoff to andre caldwell,and luigs(? arkansas)

the oklahoma center is a projected 6th rounder but seems decent right now

Actually Eric Wood is a pretty damn good center too

Moe
01-09-2009, 01:36 PM
That would be the traitorous dog Carlos Dunlap.

Ex cock?

akhhorus
01-09-2009, 02:21 PM
Ex cock?

Not quite. I don't want to say a lot in an open forum, but check where he's from, and I can tell you that there was a lot of expectation by the Cock boosters in Charleston that he would play in Columbia(also for basically 3 years he told everyone he was going to Columbia, and the boosters thought it was a lock during his senior year).

No follow up questions please.

skinsfan36
01-09-2009, 11:15 PM
Actually Eric Wood is a pretty damn good center too

sweet hope we draft him if we cant get the other guys

ClubSandwichGuy
01-10-2009, 12:35 AM
If a LT like Jason Smith falls to us, it will be an act of god, because we should almost certainly be able to trade that choice to detroit for there first and second round picks. I have it as an update in my mock draft that we will trade our pick to detroit who would jump up from 20th to 13th and select Jason Smith to almost certainly protect Matt Staffords blindside. Then we choose Duke Robinson with our first pick at 20 and Clint Sintim with our second choice, which would be the first pick in the second round. And then with our third we could select Max Unger to take over for Casey Rabach and it would give us an OL that would look like this

LT-Samuels
LG- Chad Rhinehart
C-Max Unger
RG-Duke Robinson
RT-Stephon Heyer

And if were terrible next season then we draft a Tackle who will eventually take over for Samuels. At some point we have to see what Brennan has aswell, if for nothing more than to create some sort of trade value for him.
There is no way Detroit trades up. If anything, I see them trading down.

Of course, this is Detroit...

shally
01-10-2009, 02:11 AM
There is no way Detroit trades up. If anything, I see them trading down.

Of course, this is Detroit...

detroit needs a qb to build around..

Moe
01-12-2009, 08:40 AM
Not quite. I don't want to say a lot in an open forum, but check where he's from, and I can tell you that there was a lot of expectation by the Cock boosters in Charleston that he would play in Columbia(also for basically 3 years he told everyone he was going to Columbia, and the boosters thought it was a lock during his senior year).

No follow up questions please.

Clear as a corporate tax filing :)

skinsfan36
01-12-2009, 10:22 AM
detroit needs a qb to build around..

they should go qb,OT with their two first rounders

fpickering
01-12-2009, 08:14 PM
Given our Offensive line woes, our first priority must be to upgrade at RT, C and a G.

I have posted in other threads about this but there are viable ways to accomplish this when combining a free agency acquisition with our first and third/fifth round picks.

Ideally, one of the top 4 OTs fall to us at #13 (and I think one will). I would look at G Stacy Andrews or Jahri Evans in free agency and draft the highest rated C in the 5th round. This way we could use a 3rd rounder on a DT. I like the kid Byrd out of U of Cincy.

shally
01-12-2009, 09:13 PM
Given our Offensive line woes, our first priority must be to upgrade at RT, C and a G.

I have posted in other threads about this but there are viable ways to accomplish this when combining a free agency acquisition with our first and third/fifth round picks.

Ideally, one of the top 4 OTs fall to us at #13 (and I think one will). I would look at G Stacy Andrews or Jahri Evans in free agency and draft the highest rated C in the 5th round. This way we could use a 3rd rounder on a DT. I like the kid Byrd out of U of Cincy.

andrews is high risk/high reward because he had knee surgery late in the year.
he might not be ready until mid season.. and he is a tackle

skinsfan36
01-12-2009, 10:00 PM
andrews is high risk/high reward because he had knee surgery late in the year.
he might not be ready until mid season.. and he is a tackle

he can play guard also

Hr fan
01-22-2009, 10:23 AM
detroit needs a qb to build around..

IMO he needs a D leader as well, ala Maulauga. If Detroit can get leaders on both sides of the ball in the first 13 they would be foolish not to. Like the 'Skins they are more than 1 draft away.

Keino
01-22-2009, 12:36 PM
Not quite. I don't want to say a lot in an open forum, but check where he's from, and I can tell you that there was a lot of expectation by the Cock boosters in Charleston that he would play in Columbia(also for basically 3 years he told everyone he was going to Columbia, and the boosters thought it was a lock during his senior year).

No follow up questions please.

So he changed his mind and decided to play elsewhere. It sounds as if he didn't even give a verbal commitment, only told some folks that he would likely go to SC.

Hr fan
01-26-2009, 09:25 AM
There is no way Detroit trades up. If anything, I see them trading down.

Of course, this is Detroit...

Respectfully disagree. A lot of journeymen will condemn the franchise to mediocrity. They need leaders to build around. IMO if Maualaga is there they trade to have a D centerpiece to build around over the next 2-3 years (now that Millen is gone the planning horizon has probably shifted for the better - on the other hand an honest asessment as to the progress to be made in one year caused the team to drop him from consideration). Besides, IMO Vinnie would take the Dallas 1, 3, 4 that Williams brought, allowing 3 picks in the top 32 to Detroit while rebuilding the 'Skins draft.