Arod tested positive for 2 different steroids in 2003

[akhhorus]

In his final year with the Rangers. I hope that everyone who has been dumping on Bonds and Clemens treats him the same.

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html?eref=T1)

In 2003, when he won the American League home run title and the AL Most Valuable Player award as a shortstop for the Texas Rangers, Alex Rodriguez tested positive for two anabolic steroids, four sources have independently told Sports Illustrated.

Rodriguez's name appears on a list of 104 players who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in Major League Baseball's '03 survey testing, SI's sources say. As part of a joint agreement with the MLB Players Association, the testing was conducted to determine if it was necessary to impose mandatory random drug testing across the major leagues in 2004.

[csquared]

Of course he wont get the same treatment. Its A-rod.

[CarMike]

Shocker!

[RedskinsDave]

Shocker!

It is a shocker.

[RedskinsDave]

Of course he wont get the same treatment. Its A-rod.

You're right. It'll be much worse for ARod.

[akhhorus]

You're right. It'll be much worse for ARod.

Yeah, reading the first wave of articles: it will be. Buster Olney had this tripe:

Alex Rodriguez was supposed to be the guy who saved baseball, the way that Mark McGwire did in 1998. He was supposed to ride in and save the home run record from the clutches of suspected steroid user Barry Bonds. He was supposed to be the guy who would show that clean players could be just as prolific as the cheaters.

But that's all changed now, in the aftermath of Saturday's report by SI.com's Selena Roberts and David Epstein that Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003. Rodriguez wouldn't respond to the information in the report, but anything he says really isn't going to change the fact that this will stick to him forever.

All McGwire said was that he did not want to talk about the past, and he is essentially persona non grata, and so is Rafael Palmeiro, who wagged a finger at congressmen and insisted that he never used steroids. Roger Clemens is not really wanted at the Astros spring training home anymore, the way he once was, and he probably will never get in the Hall of Fame, either. Probably, none of them will, including Bonds and Rodriguez. This is a scarlet letter than really will never go away.

I'm no fan of Arod, but him and Bonds will make the Hall(they'll have to wait for a long time).

[Ibleedburgundy]

I'd be shocked if any of the modern home run kings are NOT taking performance enhancing drugs.

[JasonCampbell]

You're right. It'll be much worse for ARod.

He'll get his fair share. Baseball is very unforgiving when it comes to steroids and players that are in the running for historic stats or potential HOFers. No one will ever forget Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, and now A-Roid for juicing, whereas we are much more forgiving of players like Giambi and Pettite.

Now, is that because Giambi and Pettite admitted to it, whereas Clemens, McGwire and Bonds have always denied it or is it because Giambi and Pettite aren't HOF caliber?

A-Rod taking steroids doesn't surprise me at all. Did he need them to be great? Absolutely not. But the guy is so competitive and wants to be the best that I'm sure he heard about others juicing and getting an edge, so he had to do it as well. There is not one player from the steriod era that would surprise me if it was relieved that they took part. It was apart of the culture.

[JasonCampbell]

I'm no fan of Arod, but him and Bonds will make the Hall(they'll have to wait for a long time).

How long? I think if (and that's a big if) they get in, they will have to wait for another generation of writers to vote them in. As time passes, those voters will have perspective that the era they played in was riddled with performance enhancing drugs.

I would just have a hard time not letting A-Rod in because his name was leaked from a list of 104 and voting in a guy like Maddux, for all I know, could have been on that list and his anonymity was kept (Maddux just came to my mind as a sure fire HOF, I don't think he took them).

[RedskinsDave]

That's my biggest beef with this whole thing. There are 104 guys named and, like the Mitchell Vomit, the names are rather selective and always seem to be missing some very choice and obvious people. I am very disappointed to hear ARod used anything because there wasn't anything obvious about his stats a la Fat Ortiz and also because, despite being completely unlikable he seemed to stay above the accusations.

[akhhorus]

How long? I think if (and that's a big if) they get in, they will have to wait for another generation of writers to vote them in. As time passes, those voters will have perspective that the era they played in was riddled with performance enhancing drugs.

I would just have a hard time not letting A-Rod in because his name was leaked from a list of 104 and voting in a guy like Maddux, for all I know, could have been on that list and his anonymity was kept (Maddux just came to my mind as a sure fire HOF, I don't think he took them).

Well, the list is in the hands of the Feds, who submitted it as evidence in the Bonds case, so its only a matter of time before it sees the light of day.

Personally, I think that any players caught using roids(Bonds, ARod, Clemens, McGwire, etc) shouldn't be eligible to make the hall by the writers' vote. They should have to wait longer and can only get in if the Veterans' committee votes them in.

[csquared]

If anything this helps guys like Mcgwire, Bonds, and Clemens to get into the HOF.

[JasonCampbell]

If anything this helps guys like Mcgwire, Bonds, and Clemens to get into the HOF.

Maybe Bonds and Clemens since they were HOF worthy before roids...not McGwire though.

[shally]

In his final year with the Rangers. I hope that everyone who has been dumping on Bonds and Clemens treats him the same.

Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html?eref=T1)


so much for his ticket to the HOF

they are going to have to build a special wing for all the 'roid heads

[Axegrinder]

This may explain why his teammates refered to him as A-Fraud, as per Torre's book.

[JasonCampbell]

This may explain why his teammates refered to him as A-Fraud, as per Torre's book.

Assuming they knew it about. He was on the Rangers in 03.

[fent]

didn't canseco mention A-Rod in a previous book? and honestly, even as a passive fan of the rangers, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out the entire team has been doping for years. yeah, the bandbox helps the numbers, but there are a ton of former rangers that have been named and a bunch of no-names hit like kings in that stadium.

[akhhorus]

didn't canseco mention A-Rod in a previous book? and honestly, even as a passive fan of the rangers, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out the entire team has been doping for years. yeah, the bandbox helps the numbers, but there are a ton of former rangers that have been named and a bunch of no-names hit like kings in that stadium.

Yeah, Canseso accused him of asking Canseco where to get roids. Arod went on 60 minutes and denied everything.

Considering that they had guys like iRod, Juan Gone, Canseco, Arod, Ruben Sierra, Ken Caminiti, Andres Galarraga, Palmerio, and Travis Hafner on those Rangers' teams, I wouldn't be shocked if they had a roids dealer on the training staff lol

[fent]

Yeah, Canseso accused him of asking Canseco where to get roids. Arod went on 60 minutes and denied everything.

Considering that they had guys like iRod, Juan Gone, Canseco, Arod, Ruben Sierra, Ken Caminiti, Andres Galarraga, Palmerio, and Travis Hafner on those Rangers' teams, I wouldn't be shocked if they had a roids dealer on the training staff lol

to be fair, hafner only had 23 games in arlington, but that dosn't mean they didn't teach him all he knows ;)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I am disappointed. I know his body is ridiculous, but I like to believe you can achieve that with hard work. Maybe you can't. Not to defend him, but if I'm Arod I'm pissed that the other 103 names haven't been revealed and that four different sources can attest to seeing his name on a list that was supposed to be annonymous and confidential.

[RedskinsDave]

ARod cheated, there's no way to spin that. That said, he has some real good questions for the union. They dropped the ball in not having those test samples destroyed and the results shredded. Now I hope all of the names will come out.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

ARod cheated, there's no way to spin that. That said, he has some real good questions for the union. They dropped the ball in not having those test samples destroyed and the results shredded. Now I hope all of the names will come out.

It is a safe bet that the names will come out. The union should have never allowed the players to put their names near the pee cups. If it was supposed to be annonymous to see if 5% of specimens would test positive, as was reportedly agreed to, why do you need the names?

[akhhorus]

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847)

Arod admits and apologizes for using steroids. Smart move.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847)

Arod admits and apologizes for using steroids. Smart move.

I guess. It worked for Giambi and Petite. Whereas, anyone denying, like Bonds and Clemens are being racked over the coals.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Naturally, all use of PEDs ended 5 years ago when AROD had a moral awakening at age 28. I mean, at 25 he was just so young and immature. 28 OTOH, is waaaaaaay different. Of course he didn't have the kind of moral awakening where you stop lying or admit what you did mind you, just the kind where you inexplicably reverse course on decisions that made you the league MVP and by far the richest player in the history of baseball.

[RedskinsDave]

Naturally, all use of PEDs ended 5 years ago when AROD had a moral awakening at age 28. I mean, at 25 he was just so young and immature. 28 OTOH, is waaaaaaay different. Of course he didn't have the kind of moral awakening where you stop lying or admit what you did mind you, just the kind where you inexplicably reverse course on decisions that made you the league MVP and by far the richest player in the history of baseball.

Well they also started testing so it was more fear of being caught than any moral awakening. I just have a hard time being outraged when they all did it, or so it seems. The person who needs to fall in this whole mess is the used car salesman who made 17 million last year.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Well they also started testing so it was more fear of being caught than any moral awakening. I just have a hard time being outraged when they all did it, or so it seems. The person who needs to fall in this whole mess is the used car salesman who made 17 million last year.

LMAO. I was floored when I heard what his salary was last year.

[BigCountry]

How good is Derek Jeter looking right about now? He's already going to Cooperstown and every time someone from his generation gets popped it makes his image look even better. Too bad players like Jeter won't be enough to save MLB.

[BostonSkins]

Anyone else getting the feeling that the only way to get ahead in any line of work these days is to be a cheat? Multiple ballplayers used roids, cabinet nominees don't pay taxes, governers selling senate seats, traders and executives paying themselves massive bonuses on the back of assets they knew were worthless. Dark days indeed.

[akhhorus]

Anyone else getting the feeling that the only way to get ahead in any line of work these days is to be a cheat? Multiple ballplayers used roids, cabinet nominees don't pay taxes, governers selling senate seats, traders and executives paying themselves massive bonuses on the back of assets they knew were worthless. Dark days indeed.

To be fair, those people have been penalized. McGwire, Clemens, Bonds et al will be banned from the Hall of Fame for a long time. Daschle had to withdraw(Geithner didn't, but that has a lot to do with circumstance), Blago was kicked out of office(and will go to jail) and those traders/execs will have their pay limited by governmental order(and I suspect there will be trials for some of them).

[Ibleedburgundy]

Well they also started testing so it was more fear of being caught than any moral awakening. I just have a hard time being outraged when they all did it, or so it seems. The person who needs to fall in this whole mess is the used car salesman who made 17 million last year.

I've been skeptical of basically all pro athletes ever since I read an article in sports illustrated in 1996 about HGH.

Agree, it's hard to come down on AROD without applying it to damn near everyone else (Tejada, Palmeiro, Roberts, etc). He's merely playing by the rules of the league he came into.

The risk of getting caught applies to steroids (after 2003) but there are other PEDs such as HGH that they really don't even test for. I read somewhere that if you take HGH the day before a urine analysis, they might detect it. In a blood test they would detect it. Until the NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA require blood tests, they really aren't serious about drug testing. They do it for the Olympics so there really is no excuse.

The situation has evolved to a point where it's only logical for pro athletes to take HGH. The side effects aren't that bad and the risk of getting caught is almost non-existant. The potential payoff is in the millions.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Anyone else getting the feeling that the only way to get ahead in any line of work these days is to be a cheat? Multiple ballplayers used roids, cabinet nominees don't pay taxes, governers selling senate seats, traders and executives paying themselves massive bonuses on the back of assets they knew were worthless. Dark days indeed.

Hey now, don't forget the Patriots. They're savvy! :)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

To be fair, those people have been penalized. McGwire, Clemens, Bonds et al will be banned from the Hall of Fame for a long time. Daschle had to withdraw(Geithner didn't, but that has a lot to do with circumstance), Blago was kicked out of office(and will go to jail) and those traders/execs will have their pay limited by governmental order(and I suspect there will be trials for some of them).

But it makes you wonder about the rest who don't get caught.

[RedskinRyan]

But it makes you wonder about the rest who don't get caught.

It makes me wonder how clean the records were before McGwire, before Bonds. ESPN recently ran an article about the 63 Chargers team, who were introduced and took steroids. Was Hank Aaron roided up? Mickey Mantle? DiMaggio?

And yes, I'd like to see the rest of the 103 names(well, atleast of the well-known ones).

The MLB should administer blood tests tomorrow. If over 30% of players test positive for some form, might as well make em legal and take away the punishments. That oughta revive baseball to the public.

[csquared]

It makes me wonder how clean the records were before McGwire, before Bonds. ESPN recently ran an article about the 63 Chargers team, who were introduced and took steroids. Was Hank Aaron roided up? Mickey Mantle? DiMaggio?

And yes, I'd like to see the rest of the 103 names(well, atleast of the well-known ones).

The MLB should administer blood tests tomorrow. If over 30% of players test positive for some form, might as well make em legal and take away the punishments. That oughta revive baseball to the public.

The biggest thing in the 60's and 70's in baseball were "greenies". Ive always wondered about roids in that era as well. I guess we will never know..

[SkinsASchamps]

well... at least no one is overreacting..

http://www.freep.com/article/20090210/COL10/90210013/Alex+Rodriguez+should+go+to+jail

That is the worst thought out article I have read in a long time.. :smash:

[RedskinsDave]

well... at least no one is overreacting..

http://www.freep.com/article/20090210/COL10/90210013/Alex+Rodriguez+should+go+to+jail

That is the worst thought out article I have read in a long time.. :smash:

Wow, that was bad. I think maybe she took all of 10 minutes to scratch that out. The worst part is she never remotely supported her own claim that his lying was enough to send him to jail.

[RedskinsDave]

For anyone wondering about the quality of past Selena Roberts works,she had a vendetta against the acquitted Duke lax kids.

http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2007/20070326114135.aspx

http://sideline.fanhouse.com/2008/03/17/a-year-later-selena-roberts-still-cant-admit-she-was-wrong-abo/

It seems once Ms (presumption) Roberts makes up her mind, it won't change. She fit in at the Times.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

For anyone wondering about the quality of past Selena Roberts works,she had a vendetta against the acquitted Duke lax kids.

http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2007/20070326114135.aspx

http://sideline.fanhouse.com/2008/03/17/a-year-later-selena-roberts-still-cant-admit-she-was-wrong-abo/

It seems once Ms (presumption) Roberts makes up her mind, it won't change. She fit in at the Times.

She often writes for the sensational, and then, like you said, doesn't back down. It must be great for her to live in such a black and white world.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet in this thread, but she has a book on ARod coming out this Spring. But I don't believe ARod when he says she broke into his house when his daughters were sleeping. It is safe to assume he was at least exaggerating if not lying.

[akhhorus]

She often writes for the sensational, and then, like you said, doesn't back down. It must be great for her to live in such a black and white world.

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet in this thread, but she has a book on ARod coming out this Spring. But I don't believe ARod when he says she broke into his house when his daughters were sleeping. It is safe to assume he was at least exaggerating if not lying.

Preemptive strike much?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Preemptive strike much?

LMAO. I hear Gammons actually cut off ARod's comments on that. The rest of the story was that she broke into his house and planted shemales on him. Just a rumor though.

[akhhorus]

LMAO. I hear Gammons actually cut off ARod's comments on that. The rest of the story was that she broke into his house and planted shemales on him. Just a rumor though.

She found out something he's worried about that will be in her book. You don't lash out randomly at a reporter who is reporting the thing you're admitting to unless you know something's coming.

[RedskinsDave]

She found out something he's worried about that will be in her book. You don't lash out randomly at a reporter who is reporting the thing you're admitting to unless you know something's coming.

You do if she's also taking one correct story and adding more to it, like he used roids in high school and whatnot.

[akhhorus]

You do if she's also taking one correct story and adding more to it, like he used roids in high school and whatnot.

Maybe. But if she was going to write something speculative or unsupported by facts and you know it, you don't say anything until the accusation, then destroy her credibility on the inital roids story then. It was just weird.

[CarMike]

It is a shocker.
The reason I made the comment is that I think most MLBers has used some type of steroids during their career. The problem I have is with MLB. If he failed the test back in '03, how come they didn't do anything about it?

The players knew they could use it and get by with it. Even if they failed tests.

[RedskinsDave]

The tests in '03 were supposed to be anonymous tests. The league and the players union agreed that they would implement actual tests if enough people failed and they did. There were no penalties at the time in the CBA. Now there are. It was only the one year where they could fail tests and not be penalized. The union failed the players by not demanding the results be destroyed. Union, failed, redundant.

[WarEagle]

He'll get his fair share. Baseball is very unforgiving when it comes to steroids and players that are in the running for historic stats or potential HOFers. No one will ever forget Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, and now A-Roid for juicing, whereas we are much more forgiving of players like Giambi and Pettite.

Now, is that because Giambi and Pettite admitted to it, whereas Clemens, McGwire and Bonds have always denied it or is it because Giambi and Pettite aren't HOF caliber?

A-Rod taking steroids doesn't surprise me at all. Did he need them to be great? Absolutely not. But the guy is so competitive and wants to be the best that I'm sure he heard about others juicing and getting an edge, so he had to do it as well. There is not one player from the steriod era that would surprise me if it was relieved that they took part. It was apart of the culture.

This is an excellent post. Many of the great players from the 'roid era will always be remembered, but I don't see the voters enshrining them in the HoF. The thing with A-Rod is that he didn't have to resort to drugs, such is his natural talent. Maybe the voters will forgive since he came clean.

[CarMike]

The tests in '03 were supposed to be anonymous tests. The league and the players union agreed that they would implement actual tests if enough people failed and they did. There were no penalties at the time in the CBA. Now there are. It was only the one year where they could fail tests and not be penalized. The union failed the players by not demanding the results be destroyed. Union, failed, redundant.

ah, gotcha.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

This is an excellent post. Many of the great players from the 'roid era will always be remembered, but I don't see the voters enshrining them in the HoF. The thing with A-Rod is that he didn't have to resort to drugs, such is his natural talent. Maybe the voters will forgive since he came clean.

I think they will eventually. As the old guard of voters die and younger voters take their place, I think younger voters will be more forgiving.

[akhhorus]

Oh God (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow-CDW2LXmU)

I admire Arod's humor about it, but this is almost making light of something he was contrite about 48 hours ago.

[whitskins]

Oh God (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow-CDW2LXmU)

I admire Arod's humor about it, but this is almost making light of something he was contrite about 48 hours ago.

That video of Arod is from an old Late Night bit from years ago.

[BurgundyNGold]

LMAO. I hear Gammons actually cut off ARod's comments on that. The rest of the story was that she broke into his house and planted shemales on him. Just a rumor though.
They planted Madonna on him? Are you still technically a shemale if anything that might identify you as one sex or another has long since either dropped off in syphilitic obligation or withered away to dust?

[akhhorus]

That video of Arod is from an old Late Night bit from years ago.

Oh, thats different. Thanks.

[akhhorus]

Arod needs to explain some more...

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3921929)

A personal trainer cited in the Mitchell report on steroids acknowledged Thursday that he worked with Alex Rodriguez during the three-year period Rodriguez says he used performance-enhancing drugs.

In an interview with ESPNDeportes.com in the Dominican Republic, Angel Presinal described himself as a "doctor of MLB teams" who also has worked with athletes in track and field, boxing, basketball and a variety of other sports, but that he has never injected anyone with steroids. Presinal has been banned from major league clubhouses since 2001.

"I did work with Alex during that period of time [2001 through 2003]," Presinal told ESPNdeportes.com's Yoel Adames, "just like I helped all of my fellow Dominicans. He used to look for me. But I wasn't working with him on an exclusive basis. I was rotating between players and teams.

"I have never advised a player [to take steroids]; I have never talked about steroids with any athlete, with any baseball player," Presinal said. "I just wish there was someone out there with the courage to accuse me directly. That will never happen because folks respect me."

Presinal's interview came before the New York Daily News on Friday reported that Rodriguez, the New York Yankees' MVP third baseman, and Presinal have had a longstanding relationship and that Presinal accompanied Rodriguez for the entire 2007 season. According to the Daily News' sources, Presinal stayed in the same hotels as A-Rod but in a separate room with the "cousin" A-Rod said was his source for steroids during his years as a Texas Ranger.

A source told the newspaper that Rodriguez avoided being seen in public with Presinal and that the two were not together during the 2008 season.

"Several people have warned Alex about this guy," a source told the Daily News. Scott Boras, Rodriguez's agent, would not comment when asked by the paper about his client's relationship with Presinal.

And ESPn pokes holes in his story about getting the steroid in the Dominican Republic. I have a feeling that there's more to this.

[RedskinsDave]

That guy's ties to steroids apparently consist of one bad full of roids that no one could positively say was his. Even so, if this guy was accused of this and was banned from clubhouses, why wasn't he in the Mitchell Report? I have used toilet paper more valuable than that overpriced witch hunt.

[RedskinsDave]

It's amazing that NESPN can keep avoiding mentioning any of their beloved Red Sox when Mitchell and others miss glaring ties to steroids.

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2009_02_21_David_Ortiz_says_Angel_Presinal_never_p ushed_steroids_on_him/srvc=home&position=recent

Red Sox slugger David Ortiz (http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?topic=David+Ortiz) [stats (http://scores.heraldinteractive.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=bostonherald&page=mlb/teams/028/players.aspx?id=3405,pos=DH,team=028)] said this morning that a banned trainer never pushed steroids on him.
Before leaving the clubhouse in Fort Myers, Ortiz had a brief conversation with reporters about his relationship with Angel Presinal, the suspected steroids supplier who, according to The New York Daily News, has been linked to Yankees (http://news.bostonherald.com/search/?topic=Yankees) slugger Alex Rodriguez.

[csquared]

It's amazing that NESPN can keep avoiding mentioning any of their beloved Red Sox when Mitchell and others miss glaring ties to steroids.

http://news.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2009_02_21_David_Ortiz_says_Angel_Presinal_never_p ushed_steroids_on_him/srvc=home&position=recent

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3921929..
He is mentioned in the above article. But he has never failed a test like A-rod has. So why should he be mentioned?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3921929..
He is mentioned in the above article. But he has never failed a test like A-rod has. So why should he be mentioned?

How do you know Ortiz is not one of the 103 names? Would it surprise you? It wouldn't surprise me.

Edit: Ortiz has gotten very talkative on the subject lately. Almost like a preemptive strike? Until someone can prove to me differently (which can't happen), I'm convinced more than 50% of the league was doing it. With no testing and no penalties from the league and only the police to worry about, I would have most likely done them to.

[csquared]

How do you know Ortiz is not one of the 103 names? Would it surprise you? It wouldn't surprise me.

Edit: Ortiz has gotten very talkative on the subject lately. Almost like a preemptive strike? Until someone can prove to me differently (which can't happen), I'm convinced more than 50% of the league was doing it. With no testing and no penalties from the league and only the police to worry about, I would have most likely done them to.

Im willing to put a large sum of money on the line in a bet that Ortiz is not on that list. The thing with A-rod is sure he admitted it but then his excuse was BS. "My cousin and I bought some over the counter stuff and tried it. We were young and dumb. I mean i was only 24....". Now we are hearing the stuff has never been over the counter. And what he tested positive for was some big time stuff. And the age of 24 cant be "young and naive". If he was 18 when he did all this thats one thing. But age 24 isnt "young and naive".

[WarEagle]

Ortiz went on an anti-steroid rant to the media a few days ago down in Spring Training. Said players who test positive should be banned for one season. Said he was tired of answering questions about it since he was just a naturally big guy. Said players who use were letting down the fans, teammates, and the game. He was pretty candid and ticked off.

[RedskinsDave]

I would bet my cojones that Ortiz used. From age 27 to 29 he suddenly beefed up and doubled his homers, improved his BA by 30 points and upped his SLG 100 points.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/david-ortiz-ultra.jpg

Naturally big, ha ha ha.

[csquared]

I would bet my cojones that Ortiz used. From age 27 to 29 he suddenly beefed up and doubled his homers, improved his BA by 30 points and upped his SLG 100 points.

http://www.homeruncards.com/imagesrc/david-ortiz-ultra.jpg

Naturally big, ha ha ha.

It helps when you play more games. Which in turn gives you more at bats. There was no sudden spike in his numbers. It was a gradual increase and that goes hand in hand with him playing more games.

[WarEagle]

The photo proves that his head has always been gigantic. lol. But his weight has always confounded me. Kind of appears like the natural girth that a man acquries as he ages and has a family, etc.. Papi also fancies himself as a cook and is constantly at the stove.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Im willing to put a large sum of money on the line in a bet that Ortiz is not on that list. The thing with A-rod is sure he admitted it but then his excuse was BS. "My cousin and I bought some over the counter stuff and tried it. We were young and dumb. I mean i was only 24....". Now we are hearing the stuff has never been over the counter. And what he tested positive for was some big time stuff. And the age of 24 cant be "young and naive". If he was 18 when he did all this thats one thing. But age 24 isnt "young and naive".

I wouldn't bet money on any of them not doing it. That's just reckless.

Think about this logically for a minute. You're a low level major leaguer, a platoon guy or a guy trying to break in to the league and stick. You make OK money as compared to your colleagues, but your bank account isn't exploding. You know that if you take this drug (made of natural testosterone) just for a few months or years, you can drastically improve your performance and score a big contract. You know it will work because you are watching many players all around you take it and improve.

You have to watch for the police because its illegal, but so what, its not like you're dealing, which is who the cops really care about. Your sport doesn't test for it, and even when they do it will be annoynmous. Plus, you have the added bonus of being warned of pending tests by union reps.

Why wouldn't you take it? Integrity of the game? That's as improtant as landing financial security and fame? Gimme a break. Worrying about future health problems? Come on, I'm 26, in the best shape of my life and can hit 50homers. What do I care about maybe, potentially, could be future health problems.

Face it, there was no disinsentive to prevent these guys from using for years. You all have your heads burried in the sand.

[csquared]

I wouldn't bet money on any of them not doing it. That's just reckless..........
Face it, there was no disinsentive to prevent these guys from using for years. You all have your heads burried in the sand.

No sir. Im the biggest baseball fan you will come by. I knew guys were doing it. Ill guarantee you that other big names did them. Im sure Bonds did. Sosa did. Mcgwire did. Hell the whole Texas Rangers did. But guess what most of them were never caught.

I attribute the whole steroid problem to driving on the highway. You know damn well you are breaking the law by speeding. But since everyone on I-95 is doing it you just go with the flow. Why? Because you don't want to get run over(In baseball terms you dont want to be replaced by somebody else.). If you want to blame somebody blame MLB. Why not have a testing program for steroids? Because the homeruns and run scoring puts butts in the seats. Im all for letting them all use them ,but thats after they research what wont hurt the player long term. Whether be HGH or a lower level steroid. So no my head has never been in the sand. But im just not blaming the player. I do have a problem with the way A-rod has handled it.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

No sir. Im the biggest baseball fan you will come by. I knew guys were doing it. Ill guarantee you that other big names did them. Im sure Bonds did. Sosa did. Mcgwire did. Hell the whole Texas Rangers did. But guess what most of them were never caught.

I attribute the whole steroid problem to driving on the highway. You know damn well you are breaking the law by speeding. But since everyone on I-95 is doing it you just go with the flow. Why? Because you don't want to get run over(In baseball terms you dont want to be replaced by somebody else.). If you want to blame somebody blame MLB. Why not have a testing program for steroids? Because the homeruns and run scoring puts butts in the seats. Im all for letting them all use them ,but thats after they research what wont hurt the player long term. Whether be HGH or a lower level steroid. So no my head has never been in the sand. But im just not blaming the player. I do have a problem with the way A-rod has handled it.

Agree with everything you said.

So then why can you be so certain Ortiz didn't use? I don't put any stock into his rant last week. I'm sure you saw that ARod while he was with Texas used to talk all the time about how guys shouldn't use, and those guys are ruining the game. Now we know the whole time he was saying those things, he was using right along.

When guys like Pete Rose and Mike Schmidt come out and say they very likely would have used too if they played during the steroid era, it makes no sense to doubt that anyone would do it. There was no valid reason not to do it.

Also, did anyone catch that the Mariners would not let Griffey talk about steroids and guys caught using this weekend? Concern his name is going to pop up?

[csquared]

Agree with everything you said.

So then why can you be so certain Ortiz didn't use? I don't put any stock into his rant last week. I'm sure you saw that ARod while he was with Texas used to talk all the time about how guys shouldn't use, and those guys are ruining the game. Now we know the whole time he was saying those things, he was using right along.

When guys like Pete Rose and Mike Schmidt come out and say they very likely would have used too if they played during the steroid era, it makes no sense to doubt that anyone would do it. There was no valid reason not to do it.

Also, did anyone catch that the Mariners would not let Griffey talk about steroids and guys caught using this weekend? Concern his name is going to pop up?

Ortiz is just plain fat. And his stats never showed a huge jump. Like i said before his numbers rose when he started playing more games and getting more at-bats. And just so you are sure no im not a Sox fan lol. So sure he could have done them but i just dont think he did. I wouldnt be surprised if Griffey did use them. His body broke down like a steroid users would.

[RedskinsDave]

It helps when you play more games. Which in turn gives you more at bats. There was no sudden spike in his numbers. It was a gradual increase and that goes hand in hand with him playing more games.

Okay, you go on believing there was no jump and that his at-bats were why his numbers doubled. I will use my eyes and see his doubling in size and do the math.

[RedskinsDave]

Ortiz is just plain fat. And his stats never showed a huge jump. Like i said before his numbers rose when he started playing more games and getting more at-bats. And just so you are sure no im not a Sox fan lol. So sure he could have done them but i just dont think he did. I wouldnt be surprised if Griffey did use them. His body broke down like a steroid users would.

Wow, you're accusing Junior and defending Ortiz?!! Nevermind he also used Angel Presinal to train. Shhhh, nothing to see here.......

[csquared]

Wow, you're accusing Junior and defending Ortiz?!! Nevermind he also used Angel Presinal to train. Shhhh, nothing to see here.......

Nope not defending nor accusing only pointing out logical variants.

[RedskinsDave]

Nope not defending nor accusing only pointing out logical variants.

LOL. Actually many people point to Junior being hurt often as proof he was clean. The guys who used were able to recover faster. Guys who had sudden spikes (despite your excuses) like Ortiz and who now can't stay healthy (since testing is done) are far more likely to have used. I think Ortiz got hurt sleeping on a pillow the wrong way. That's a little different than diving into the outfield wall.

[akhhorus]

Selena Roberts' book is out:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4114292

Some lowlights:
*Yankees teammates, Roberts writes, nicknamed Rodriguez "B-tch T-ts" in 2005 because he put on 15 pounds in the offseason which included round pectorals, a condition called gynecomastia that can be caused by anabolic steroids.

*Jose Canseco, a former teammate of Rodriguez, said in the book he believes Rodriguez has been using steroids since high school. "Was he on steroids in high school?" Canseco said in the book, the Daily News reported. "I think probably so. I worked out with him when he was 18. He could lift almost as much as I could." Rodriguez put on 25 pounds of muscle between his sophomore and junior years. Former high school teammates told Roberts that A-Rod was using steroids back then and his coach knew it -- an allegation the coach, Rich Hoffman, denied.

*A-Rod "pitch tipped" when he played for the Rangers by letting opponents at the plate know which pitch was coming in lopsided games. A-Rod expected players he helped would reciprocate when he was having an off night and needed to get his batting average up.

*A-Rod's off-the-field antics including his poker habit; his divorce from his wife, Cynthia; his relationship with Madonna and his other affairs are detailed.

*A-Rod was hated at Hooters, where he tipped the minimum 15 percent.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/04/30/arod.book.ap/index.html

In the book, however, an unnamed major leaguer is quoted as saying A-Rod and former Yankees pitcher Kevin Brown, who was named in the Mitchell Report, were seen together with human growth hormone -- or HGH -- in 2004.

The book also goes on to say that two anonymous Yankees said they believed A-Rod was using banned substances based on visual side effects, and that a clubhouse staffer said management had a suspicion that that the third baseman may have been juicing.

[RedskinsDave]

That book looks like it won't be fit for kindling. He only tipped 15%!!!!!!!! String him up!! That beats Tiger and Jordan from most accounts. Selena Roberts has produced what amounts to a hard covered National Enquirer.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

That book looks like it won't be fit for kindling. He only tipped 15%!!!!!!!! String him up!! That beats Tiger and Jordan from most accounts. Selena Roberts has produced what amounts to a hard covered National Enquirer.

Mike and Mike were reserving judgment but killing the book based on what has been released so far. Everything is "unnamed sources", "former teammates", etc. No one (other than Canseco) is on the record. We'll see when the book comes out, but this book may be the final blow to Selena Roberts' journalistic integrity.

[RedskinsDave]

The pre-orders are abysmal. People just don't care.

[RedskinsDave]

Ortiz is just plain fat. And his stats never showed a huge jump. Like i said before his numbers rose when he started playing more games and getting more at-bats. And just so you are sure no im not a Sox fan lol. So sure he could have done them but i just dont think he did. I wouldnt be surprised if Griffey did use them. His body broke down like a steroid users would.

This post gets funnier and funnier as the weeks roll on.

[RedskinsDave]

Murray Chass, a REAL baseball writer, rips Roberts a new one. WOW

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=700

Roberts has written a book about Alex Rodriguez, and it is a journalistic abomination. That phrase probably won’t appear in any advertisement for the book, but it should to alert prospective readers what they would be getting.


I use the word journalistic rather than literary for two reasons: 1, the book grew out of a Sports Illustrated project; 2, Roberts has been a newspaper and magazine reporter and columnist and as such has practiced the craft of journalism. Based on the book, however, she needs a lot more practice.

[WarEagle]

Selena Roberts is an Auburn graduate, so War Eagle, Selena.

But I agree with the gist of Murray's diatribe. I don't like unnamed sources either. No one does. We'll probably see more of it, though, as old school print sportswriters, with their high standards, die off and these young internet-savy reporters emerge.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Selena Roberts is an Auburn graduate, so War Eagle, Selena.

But I agree with the gist of Murray's diatribe. I don't like unnamed sources either. No one does. We'll probably see more of it, though, as old school print sportswriters, with their high standards, die off and these young internet-savy reporters emerge.

You may be right, but I'm not so sure. It comes down to ethics for me. I hope the next generation of writers practice their craft with integrity. Selena Roberts wrote a piece of crap. She knows it. The public knows it, and now she is rightfully taking heat for it and the book sales are abysmal.

She should just write novels since that seems to be her forte.