3rd game in a row Canidate outplayed Betts...

[jsarno]

I like the platoon idea since it's working for us, but I don't think Betts deserves the same amount of carries as Canidate. Give betts 5-7 a game...get Canidate 12-20 a game.
Canidate deserves it, and doesn't deserve to be an afterthought in the red zone.
He's averaging 5.3 yards per carry. Betts is only averaging 4.1 per carry.

[PennSkinsFan]

The hot hand deserves the carries and the circumstances.

[Ford]

Originally posted by jsarno
I like the platoon idea since it's working for us, but I don't think Betts deserves the same amount of carries as Canidate. Give betts 5-7 a game...get Canidate 12-20 a game.
Canidate deserves it, and doesn't deserve to be an afterthought in the red zone.
He's averaging 5.3 yards per carry. Betts is only averaging 4.1 per carry.

Both are playing well. We should be happy to be able to say Betts is ONLY averaging 4.1 yards per carry. It's simple: when the Redskins have a real threat at QB .. the running game improves because defenses are on their heels. I don't think Candidate or Betts are better than Stephen Davis ..... but in Stephen Davis' last 3 years as a Redskin, he averaged about 4 yards per carry. The difference is, that was without a passing attack. When Brad Johnson was around and Connell and Westbrook had their 1,000 yard seasons .. Davis averaged 4.8 yards per carry. My point is ... I like the way both of these guys are playing but I think alot of their success has to be attributed to ... Patrick Ramsey.

[WRSK1NS]

Everytime Canidate almost breaks one it seems the next few plays after that they put Betts back in. Coaches dont seem to let him finish what he started. I would rather see them alternate series because i agree both are good runners but they are never allowed to get in a grove.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Ford
Both are playing well. We should be happy to be able to say Betts is ONLY averaging 4.1 yards per carry.

I NEED TO MAKE A CORRECTIONS. BETTS AVERAGE IS ONLY 3.9, NOT 4.1. NFL.COM HAS CORRECTED THIER AVERAGES.
CANIDATE IS AT 5.4 YARDS PER CARRY NOW ACCORDING TO NFL.COM.

Of the top 30 rushers in the AFC 14 have an average of BETTER than 3.9, 6 are close to 3.9 or tied at 3.9.
Of the top 30 rushers in the NFC 23 have an average of BETTER than 3.9, 2 are tied at 3.9 (including Hambrick).
That's a total of 37 NFL players (out of the top 60) with an average better than Betts. Which means he's performing worse than average.

ps- with a minimum of 30 attempts, Canidate is leading the NFC with a 5.4 YPC.
Also, here is the stats with a minimum of 30 attempts in the NFL:
1- Jamal Lewis 6.5 YPC
2- Clinton Portis 6.3 YPC
3- Trung Canidate 5.4 YPC

Mighty good company.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Bench Betts. I like him...just drop his carries and add carries to canidate. 3rd most in YPC in the NFL speaks for itself.

[dj_stouty]

Well...lets also remember that Betts has been getting a LOT of 3rd and 1 carries or 1 yard and goal carries. That will always bring your cards per carry average down.

Canidate is NOT used in that capacity, so his average will typically be higher.

That's a total of 37 NFL players (out of the top 60) with an average better than Betts. Which means he's performing worse than average.

As I said...you can't make that assumption. Of those 37 players, which ones are 3rd down backs? How many are considered goal line carriers? How many simply get 99% of their snaps?

[Emmanouel8]

Wow Jsarno, getting Trung still sound like a bad idea to you? Even though I love Trung I still like the mixing the two, but like WRSKINS I don't like the way they're being mixed. They need to let one play consecutive drives and keep whoever's hot going.

They also need to throw to Trung out of the backfield. That screen he had yesterday, which I think was the only pass he's had all year, is indicative of that. He converted a 3rd and I think 20?! Wow.

PS You need to take into account Betts runs a lot of goaline and short ydg situations when considering his low avg.

[Spence]

I want to know why Trung is never used in the passing game, where I think he'd do even more damage.

[Hailyeah]

Let's not go crazy with the stats here. Yes, I was impressed with Trung in this game, but certainly not impressed in the Giants game where he did his tap dance at our one yard line barely avoiding a safety and didn't see much PT after that. Both guys should continue to platoon at this point. I agree that Trung out of the backfield seems very logical. He made one hell of a double cut on a screen play in the first half.

[Texas Skin]

We should get Canidate involved in some passing plays this weekend. Maybe some screens to help break up that blitzing Philly Defense, it would also help us open up the field.

[lakewinola]

there is a reason that trung only has one catch on the season. betts has 6 for 79 yards. In the long run betts will out average and out catch trung

[jsarno]

I know the stats are a bit misleading...but how many of you seriously don't think Canidate is looking better than Betts to this point? Like I said, this is the 3rd straight week canidate outplayed Betts. Anybody with a 5.4 YPC average needs to get the ball 20 times a game. He derserves that shot.

I agree with Spence, I don't know why Canidate is not used more in the passing game. He was brought in to be valuable out of the backfield and we're not utilyzing his skills that way.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
Wow Jsarno, getting Trung still sound like a bad idea to you?

Depends...still think Betts isn't even as close to as good as Canidate? :D

[WRSK1NS]

There is another running who used to dance around and juke sometimes he would get dropped for a 5 yard loss, sometimes he would break the big one and take it to the house. Who was he? Barry Sanders! Am I saying Trung is as good as Barry? No not yet but their running styles are similar. Sometimes you are going to take a loss but hopefully the large gains will be worth the ocassional loss. If I am not mistaken Trung didn't lose any yards yesterday by dancing, everything went for a gain.

[Emmanouel8]

I never said 'good' I said fast ;).

Lakewinola your nuts if you think Betts is clearly the guy to catch out of the backfield. Trung has only one catch all year and he torched the pats. When he was w/ the rams and wildcats he had some great catches out of the backfield. I like Betts but Trung deserves as many throws as him right now.

If Trung could only be an average blocker he'd be the feature back IMO.

[Emmanouel8]

I think your right WRSKINS (no runs for losses maybe one where he lossed a yard), but I'd say he has more Terry Allen in him. I really think this guy runs downhill WHEN he turns it upfield, shoulder pads way down feet driving. :D

[jsarno]

He's no Barry Sanders. Sanders was the best ever. I see your point about his "style" though. Trung has no had the time to "hit that homerun" yet.
I just really want to see what this guy can do with 20+ carries.
do what Minnesota did last year when playing Bennett the majority of the time, but played Williams on goal line situations and important 3rd short situations.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
I never said 'good' I said fast ;).

Lakewinola your nuts if you think Betts is clearly the guy to catch out of the backfield. Trung has only one catch all year and he torched the pats. When he was w/ the rams and wildcats he had some great catches out of the backfield. I like Betts but Trung deserves as many throws as him right now.

If Trung could only be an average blocker he'd be the feature back IMO.

You hit the nail on the head.

the reason Betts is in the game on pasing downs more than Trung, is because they are terified of Trung ability to

a. reconize the blitz; and
b. pass block

[jsarno]

how can that not be taught?

[ShaggySkins]

These guys should continue to split time. Neither one is capable of being a 25-30 carry per game guy that we need but together they provide a nice mix. Betts is much better up the gut then Trung and Trung has the homerun ability that Betts lacks. These guys complement each other perfectly and need to keep sharing the carries.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
These guys should continue to split time. Neither one is capable of being a 25-30 carry per game guy that we need but together they provide a nice mix. Betts is much better up the gut then Trung and Trung has the homerun ability that Betts lacks. These guys complement each other perfectly and need to keep sharing the carries.

I agree...

While it is "novel" to have a full time RB in your backfield getting 25 carries per game, sometimes that gives defensive coordinators an easier time of analyizing the running game.

Instead, the Skins have a "scat back" RB and a "between the tackles" RB...and Spurrier mixes them up so much, defenses rarely know what to expect.

[jsarno]

No one is asking for 25-30 a game back. That's 400-480 carries a season...NO ONE does that anymore. (I think Jamal ANderson was the last and we see where he is now)
If we're going to run the ball 30 times a game, I want Canidate to get it 16-20 times, Betts to get it maybe 7 times, and the rest are just misc.

[ShaggySkins]

Even still do u thing Trung can last 20 carries a game for the rest of the season??? Why not run both backs based on how they are playing and if one is strong he'll get more carries. Last year both the Bucs and Raiders used a commitee at RB and it worked great for them. Betts is a good back up the middle and Rock has shown to be a great goaline back. Trung is getting the majority of the carries I believe he got 18 carries aganist the Pats and Betts still got 11 carries.
Why fool with it when its working great???

[jsarno]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
Even still do u thing Trung can last 20 carries a game for the rest of the season??? Why not run both backs based on how they are playing and if one is strong he'll get more carries.

This is EXACTLY what I am suggesting. Canidate is averaging teh 3rd best YPC in the NFL right now. He deserves a shot at more carries. Betts actually has more carries on teh season than Canidate despite Trung playing better 3 out of the 4 games.
(for the record, I did say 16-20) Yes, EVERY back in the NFL is fully capable of 16-20 carries EVERY WEEK.

Trung is getting the majority of the carries I believe he got 18 carries aganist the Pats and Betts still got 11 carries.
Why fool with it when its working great???

Trung got 12 carries vs the Pats. Ony 1 more than Betts.
Betts has 48 carries for 185 yards, and 6 catches. Trung has 46 carries for 248 yards and 1 catch. So to this point Betts has been used more while Trung is more effective.

I understand the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" theory. But how do we know how well we'lldo if Canidatewas the primary? What if we were an OUTSTANDING team instead of this taem that is barely winning eachgame (and barely lost one game)

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Trung has been playing great. I think he deserves a few more carries too. It just seems he has that ability to make something out of nothing. Like on that screen play, it looked like he would lose 5 or 6 yards and instead he put a few nice moves on the defenders and scampered for 25 - 30 yards. Betts still needs to get his touches though, especially on 3rd n short or goal line running, but like almost all runnings backs will tell you, they get better as the game goes on and they get into a groove, neither of our backs have been able to get into that groove with the way they been utilized.

Oh well, its seems to be working pretty good. So why change it if its not broke? I guess.

[Skinsfan1906]

How does Betts have 6 receptions and Trung 1? That gets me. Trung IMO is far more dangerous in the "open field" (mainly due to his speed). He could catch a 5 yard slant or a 10 yard out and turn it up field for a 50 yard gain!

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Skinsfan1906
How does Betts have 6 receptions and Trung 1? That gets me. Trung IMO is far more dangerous in the "open field" (mainly due to his speed). He could catch a 5 yard slant or a 10 yard out and turn it up field for a 50 yard gain!

I know...it's puzzling!
I think they have thrown to Betts 9 times too. 3 were poorly thrown. The ONLY time they have thrown to Canidate is that one screen pass that he turned into 20 yards.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
No one is asking for 25-30 a game back. That's 400-480 carries a season...NO ONE does that anymore. (I think Jamal ANderson was the last and we see where he is now)


Ricky came close last year. 383 carries and 47 receptions (that's 430 touches)....and he is on pace to beat that this year! (496 carries and 64 rec 560 TOUCHES -- THAT'S INSANE!)

He had 3 games with 14,14, and 15 carriies (all Loses!). if he ahd gotten the 20 per in those games he would have got to 400.

He's a monster and an exception to the rule. On a side note the Gints plan to get Tiki 400 "touches" this year....if he does, I figure 12-15 Fumbles to go with it (at least).[B]

[jsarno]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
Ricky came close last year. 383 carries and 47 receptions (that's 430 touches)....and he is on pace to beat that this year.

That point was CARRIES...not touches. Shoot, I'll take 12 carries from Canidate if he gets 5 catches a game. That way we're using his ability. Right now, he's only getting 11.75 touches a game. Not enough by any standard.
Look at Charlie Garner, he only averaged 11 carries a game last year (for 60 yards), but he had 91 catches for 941 yards. (5.69 catches a game, and 58.81 yards). Now that's something Trung can be doing. Garner is one of the most underrated RB's in the game, and he's arguably the most valuable.
My whole point is Trung is not being used enough.
(also, rickey will be another George if he coninues to carry that much of a load. That's too much for any back.)


He's a monster and an exception to the rule. On a side note the Gints plan to get Tiki 400 "touches" this year....if he does, I figure 12-15 Fumbles to go with it (at least).

That's a good assumption considering Tiki is the worst at protecting the ball. He's had the most fumbles over the past 2 years in the NFL.

ps- Anderson in 98 had 410 carries and 27 receptions for 437 "touches". I'm sure he had some days where his carries were low as well.

[ShaggySkins]

Trung is not good catching out of the backfield though. Thats one of his biggest problems and why he isn't a every down back much like Betts. Neither one is like Tiki or Garner they aren't experienced pass catchers.

[Emmanouel8]

Shaggy what are you talking about? How do you know he isn't?? He did great catching out of the backfield in college and w/ the rams and converted a 3rd and 20 last week for us in his only catch of the year! I don't get how you made any conclusion.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
That point was CARRIES...not touches. Shoot, I'll take 12 carries from Canidate if he gets 5 catches a game. That way we're using his ability. Right now, he's only getting 11.75 touches a game. Not enough by any standard.
Look at Charlie Garner, he only averaged 11 carries a game last year (for 60 yards), but he had 91 catches for 941 yards. (5.69 catches a game, and 58.81 yards). Now that's something Trung can be doing. Garner is one of the most underrated RB's in the game, and he's arguably the most valuable.
My whole point is Trung is not being used enough.
(also, rickey will be another George if he coninues to carry that much of a load. That's too much for any back.)

ps- Anderson in 98 had 410 carries and 27 receptions for 437 "touches". I'm sure he had some days where his carries were low as well.


I understood your point completely and agree with it. I only mentioned Ricky's stats because he is the EXCEPTION. I find it amazing how much the Fins depend on him. They have run 193 plays this year and Ricky has touched it 105 (54%) -- again that is insane.


ps - Anderson had 2 games with 13 and 18 carries (Atlanta's only 2 losses)

I would agree that's far too much in the NFL -- it will shorten Ricky's carrier if it keeps up.

[truant]

In trung's second career start he went over 100 yards... recieving.

Yes, he can catch out of the backfield.

[ShaggySkins]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
Shaggy what are you talking about? How do you know he isn't?? He did great catching out of the backfield in college and w/ the rams and converted a 3rd and 20 last week for us in his only catch of the year! I don't get how you made any conclusion.

Everyone I've heard talk about the guy has said he has suspect hands out of the backfield.

[swigfall]

Your right shaggy, Trung dropped at least 2 catches in preseason and betts has not dropped a pass as a pro i believe, thats why he has gotten more chances, and he is the better blocker

[jsarno]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
I understood your point completely and agree with it. I only mentioned Ricky's stats because he is the EXCEPTION. I find it amazing how much the Fins depend on him. They have run 193 plays this year and Ricky has touched it 105 (54%) -- again that is insane.


ps - Anderson had 2 games with 13 and 18 carries (Atlanta's only 2 losses)

I would agree that's far too much in the NFL -- it will shorten Ricky's carrier if it keeps up.

You mean we actually agree on something? :lol1:

Shaggy Skins, I don't know who you've been talking to, but it's pretty common this kid can catch (canidate) in fact the original thought on getting him was so he could be a good receiver out of the backfield.
ps- dropping a few in presaeson means SQUAT. Who cares? It's the game that matters, and Canidate has proven he's much more reliable receiver than Betts when he was in St. Louis. We need to use him more.

[Emmanouel8]

I agree w/ <drum roll>...jsarno. 2 drop passes means squat.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by jsarno
ps- dropping a few in presaeson means SQUAT. Who cares?

Actually...a lot of receivers who drop passes in preseason don't go on to make their respective team...so YES...preseason does matter. But I understand your point...

I think we should drop the discussion of "who drops more passes". Its impossible to research who has more drops in their career....

What we can look at is catches and yards/catch.

Answer me one thing...if Canidate is such a home run hitter catching the ball...then why does he have a much lower yards/catch average than Betts. It seems as if both guys can move the ball...so why the argument?

Canidate: 23 catches for 9.3 yards per catch.
Betts: 18 catches for 12.9 yards per catch.

[jsarno]

yards average per reception is tough to judge. First is was a totally different team that you're taking those averages. Second, Canidate has a better avg for the Skins doesn't he? Third...look at the yards per carry and that will tell you which one is more explosive out of the back field.
All you have to do is watch them to tell which is more explosive.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
I agree w/ <drum roll>...jsarno. 2 drop passes means squat.

Trust me, that is ALWAYS a good thing :D

Just for the record...I was wrong about Canidate back then. I have been lobbying for him ever since I saw his ability in the preseason. This kid is reborn, and he's playing with heart. I'm VERY glad we have him now. (thought you'd like to hear that)

[Emmanouel8]

My guess is Betts got a lot screen passes during scrub time or he saw lot of them against the prevent.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by jsarno
yards average per reception is tough to judge. First is was a totally different team that you're taking those averages.

You are right. Canidate got those yards on a team that had Kurt Warner (in his prime), Torry Holt and Issac Bruce stretching the D with the "greatest show on turf". Seems to me that Betts' higher average...with lesser talent stands out more.

Originally posted by jsarno
Second, Canidate has a better avg for the Skins doesn't he?

Canidate only has one catch for 25 yards. Surely you understand that comparing his one catch to Bett's 6 catches is not fair. (Regardless...Betts has increased his average/catch ratio to 13.2 this year)

Originally posted by jsarno
Third...look at the yards per carry and that will tell you which one is more explosive out of the back field. All you have to do is watch them to tell which is more explosive. ?

I believe we have already established the fact that Canidate will always have a better yards/run average than Betts, simply b/c Betts is getting goalline carries and Canidate is not.

[PennSkinsFan]

Regardless for a team being plagued by defense with the blitz, I am surprised that Betts ONLY has 6 recpetions and Canidate ONLY has one. We should be taking advantage of these blitzes and getting it into their hands.

I've been saying all along that I can not conceive why canidate has only one recpetion. With his burst of speed, we should be taking advantage of posible mismatches speedwise. Same thing with Morton.

[Keino]

Originally posted by Emmanouel8
My guess is Betts got a lot screen passes during scrub time or he saw lot of them against the prevent.

All 4 of our games have been close. There has been no scrub time. What I think is that Defenses don't play Betts to be a Receiver, but when Trung is in the game the do key on him for that........

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
You are right. Canidate got those yards on a team that had Kurt Warner (in his prime), Torry Holt and Issac Bruce stretching the D with the "greatest show on turf". Seems to me that Betts' higher average...with lesser talent stands out more.

Do you know how Trung was used in those cases? Surely not. How do you know he wasn't the 5th option and by then the LB picked him up? If you can't understand that, why bother?

Canidate only has one catch for 25 yards. Surely you understand that comparing his one catch to Bett's 6 catches is not fair. (Regardless...Betts has increased his average/catch ratio to 13.2 this year)

I figure I can be as nieve as you. If you can point to a clearly different system and time, then I can point out the one catch. Sounds fair to me.

I believe we have already established the fact that Canidate will always have a better yards/run average than Betts, simply b/c Betts is getting goalline carries and Canidate is not.

That's not why. Canidate will ALWAYS have better stats because he's more elusive and has better explosiveness. Have you watched any of our games? Seriously...because to make such off the wall comments, you must have been watching reruns of the XFL. PS- Betts doesn't ALWAYS run on third down / goal line...but I will agree that brings it down a little.
I suppose Ark Monk wasn't as good as Alvin Harper either since Harpers career Yards per reception was 18.2, while Monks was only 13.5. Now then, is it entirely possible that each was used differently in different systems, or are you so sure that Harper was better than Monk was? Going off your answers about Betts / Canidate, you clearly think that Harper was better in your writings. I hope that's not the case. Still think yards per reception is where the answers lay?
PS- Best not to answer cause it will make you sound foolish. Just agree that yards per RECEPTION is not even close to an indicator of talent. If you can't agree that Canidate is more explosive, then I will no longer bother with you in this conversation. That answer is plain and simple. So why are we even discussing this.
We just need to get Canidate the ball more, plain and simple.

[dj_stouty]

Give me a break, JSarno...Sometimes I think you post just to argue.

I am nieve? You are the one who said you could draw conclusions on Trung's catching ability from a SINGLE catch. If that is the case...then I guess by your logic that Betts is better...since he caught a 34 yard pass in the Giants game. 9 more yards than Canidate's catch under the same team and same system. Of course you can't draw that conclusion.

When I'm talking about yards/catch, I'm talking about RUNNING BACK yards/catch. Much different when you are talking about Wide REceivers. Some WRs, such as Az-Hakim are pure speed burners...so of course he will have more ypc than a possession reciever like Rod Gardner. That doesn't mean that Az is any better than Rod. (which he is not) You can make a case for a RUNNING BACK being "explosive" using yards/reception as much as you can for using yards/carry. Neither stat tells you if the person "juked" or "sizzled" prior to getting tackled. My point is that Betts has higher yards/catch career numbers than Canidate. Plain and simple. Canidate has a better yards/carry...but we have both agreed that since Betts does (on occasion) have 3rd and short and goalline carries (as he did last week) that his average will surely be lower.

Do you know how Trung was used in those cases? Surely not. How do you know he wasn't the 5th option and by then the LB picked him up?

No, I don't know how Trung was used in those cases. I assume you never pull historical facts w/out watching the game tapes ahead of time? Do you know how Canidate was used in his 25 yard run last wek? Or do you not want to admit that you didn't actually watch the Redskins game last weekend? So if you didn't watch the game, how do you know "how Trung was used in that case"?

[Emmanouel8]

:danger:

The point is Trung needs more balls to go his way through the air and to the RB's overall...but more to Trung b/c he's better :moon2: .

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Can't we all just get along? Smoke a peace pipe? Shake hands? Sing Hail to the Redskins?

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
That's not why. Canidate will ALWAYS have better stats because he's more elusive and has better explosiveness. Have you watched any of our games? Seriously...because to make such off the wall comments, you must have been watching reruns of the XFL. PS- Betts doesn't ALWAYS run on third down / goal line...but I will agree that brings it down a little.
I suppose Ark Monk wasn't as good as Alvin Harper either since Harpers career Yards per reception was 18.2, while Monks was only 13.5. Now then, is it entirely possible that each was used differently in different systems, or are you so sure that Harper was better than Monk was? Going off your answers about Betts / Canidate, you clearly think that Harper was better in your writings. I hope that's not the case. Still think yards per reception is where the answers lay?
PS- Best not to answer cause it will make you sound foolish. Just agree that yards per RECEPTION is not even close to an indicator of talent. If you can't agree that Canidate is more explosive, then I will no longer bother with you in this conversation. That answer is plain and simple. So why are we even discussing this.
We just need to get Canidate the ball more, plain and simple.

This bugs me.....I agree with you on Trung vs Betts, but can't understand why when some else doesn't agree with you, you have to resort to personal insults and then it just go back and forth.

It's such a turn off and the one thing I liked most about hR vs other FAN SITES, that you don't see people insulting others in this way. Ends up that peole who would not normally sink that low, find themselves exchanging low blows. It's just sad really.

I'll stand down from my soap box now.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Nah, stay on it a while, you're not saying anything bad from it.

[dj_stouty]

Well...I'll admit that I am partially to blame for drawing this discussion along...However, it is JSarno's style to take it to the next level.

For what it's worth...I agree that Canidate needs to get thrown the ball more. One catch is way to few in 4 NFL games. However, Betts has proven that he can get the job done just as well. (no matter if you class him as "non-explosive" or not.)

[GoingDeep]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
Can't we all just get along? Smoke a peace pipe? Shake hands? Sing Hail to the Redskins? :lolbig:

Man that's classic!!!!!!

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
Can't we all just get along? Smoke a peace pipe? Shake hands? Sing Hail to the Redskins?

Sure,

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS......

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
However, it is JSarno's style to take it to the next level.

Is that how all you guys see me? Just as some pain in the ass that only argues to hear himself talk?

[jsarno]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
This bugs me.....I agree with you on Trung vs Betts, but can't understand why when some else doesn't agree with you, you have to resort to personal insults and then it just go back and forth.

It's such a turn off and the one thing I liked most about hR vs other FAN SITES, that you don't see people insulting others in this way. Ends up that peole who would not normally sink that low, find themselves exchanging low blows. It's just sad really.

I'll stand down from my soap box now.

You're absolutely right. I do get a little sarcastic. I'm sorry for ruining your experience.

[Keino]

Originally posted by jsarno
Is that how all you guys see me? Just as some pain in the ass that only argues to hear himself talk?

Yes. Can only speak for myself.......

[jsarno]

well then I guess there is nothing left to say

[Hailyeah]

First of all, Betts is the better overall back and the stats will yield this over time. His demonstrated ability to catch out of the backfield as well as run right up the gut for the tough yards makes him the more dynamic guy. Secondly, Betts clearly outplayed Trung in both the Jets and Giants games. Where was Trung at when Betts was contribution on the final two drives to tie up NY 21-21? Third, DJ is well-educated on the Skins and has some slick points. I never like attacks where someone tries to pick apart an argument by 'breaking down' someone else's opinions/facts yet fails to see the same level of 'blandness' in their own comments. I can respect your opinion jsarno, just don't feel the need to destroy your opponent at all costs. Leave that mentality to Lavar!!!