Cerrato vs. Pioli

[Nomad]

Can't help wishing for a real GM.
Cerrato gives up a 2nd (44th) and a 6th for aging Jason Taylor.
Pioli gives up a 2nd (34th) for a 26 year old QB, and aging Mike Vrabel.
Let the excuse making beign. The Pats needed to unload Cassel, etc., etc.
This franchise is ridiculous.
We pay Dockery 25 million, when we should have a 2nd round pick to draft a G for 5 million over the same duration.
We pay Peyton Manning money to a risky but talented DT.
Hall's agent bluffs our FO into a contract 10-30% above market value.
Even conceding an uncapped 2010 which gets us out of cap purgatory, this FO is maddening. These signings will have the same end result they always do.

[akhhorus]

You don't want to go into all the trades Pioli made for veterans in New England do you? By your logic, you would have lost it over the Pats dealing for Moss, Dillion, Welker, etc.

The Pats got screwed on the Cassell/Vrabel deal, but they had to make the moves.

And for the record, Hall, Dock and Haynesworth will never see half the money on their deals.

[GibbsFan]

I'll take Pioli in an early 1st round KO! :smash:

[The Iceman]

It's funny that you have already decided that Pioli has made great moves even before one single preseason snap has been had. I say let's sit back and see how this plays out. I do like the move by the chiefs to get a possible franchise QB for a second round pick. However, I think that Cerrato has put us a good position to be able to draft an OT with our first pick having already plugged most of the other holes on the roster through FA. I don't understand how anyone can bitch and moan all the time when it is very obvious that our FO is doing everything they can to win now. I like how AH put it. He came to Washington instead of Tampa even though the same contract was on the table. He came here because we are a few pieces away from being frontrunners in the NFC East, if not the NFC. Call me optimistic, but isn't that what being a fan is? I think we are poised to have a really good year. If we do, I want a lot crow getting mauled on over all you Cerrato haters.

[Red Bear]

And for the record, Hall, Dock and Haynesworth will never see half the money on their deals.

are you predicting hall is only here for 2 years? isnt he due to receive 30 million in the first 3 years. he will get half of his contract. dock is also likely to see half the money in his deal unless we cut him after 2 years.

[shally]

Can't help wishing for a real GM.
Cerrato gives up a 2nd (44th) and a 6th for aging Jason Taylor.
Pioli gives up a 2nd (34th) for a 26 year old QB, and aging Mike Vrabel.
Let the excuse making beign. The Pats needed to unload Cassel, etc., etc.
This franchise is ridiculous.
We pay Dockery 25 million, when we should have a 2nd round pick to draft a G for 5 million over the same duration.
We pay Peyton Manning money to a risky but talented DT.
Hall's agent bluffs our FO into a contract 10-30% above market value.
Even conceding an uncapped 2010 which gets us out of cap purgatory, this FO is maddening. These signings will have the same end result they always do.

ridiculous.. simply ridiculous

let's see what pioli does without HOF coach BB on the sidelines

personally, i like what cerrato has done this year.. let's see how he tops it off in the draft

[ClubSandwichGuy]

It's funny that you have already decided that Pioli has made great moves even before one single preseason snap has been had. I say let's sit back and see how this plays out. I do like the move by the chiefs to get a possible franchise QB for a second round pick. However, I think that Cerrato has put us a good position to be able to draft an OT with our first pick having already plugged most of the other holes on the roster through FA. I don't understand how anyone can bitch and moan all the time when it is very obvious that our FO is doing everything they can to win now. I like how AH put it. He came to Washington instead of Tampa even though the same contract was on the table. He came here because we are a few pieces away from being frontrunners in the NFC East, if not the NFC. Call me optimistic, but isn't that what being a fan is? I think we are poised to have a really good year. If we do, I want a lot crow getting mauled on over all you Cerrato haters.
I fully agree. Barring a disaster during the draft, I think we have had a pretty good offseason.

[akhhorus]

are you predicting hall is only here for 2 years? isnt he due to receive 30 million in the first 3 years. he will get half of his contract. dock is also likely to see half the money in his deal unless we cut him after 2 years.

I think Haynesworth will fulfill the 4/48 part of his deal. I think they'll push around DeAngelo's money after Springs(and maybe rogers) go off the book entirely.

[shally]

I think Haynesworth will fulfill the 4/48 part of his deal. I think they'll push around DeAngelo's money after Springs(and maybe rogers) go off the book entirely.


you think they part with rogers ? i dont.. i think this mends a lot of fences because there is no way smoot (who has to restructure, himself) or tryon or any rookie start over rogers..

the contract with come next year...

[akhhorus]

you think they part with rogers ? i dont.. i think this mends a lot of fences because there is no way smoot (who has to restructure, himself) or tryon or any rookie start over rogers..

the contract with come next year...

Who knows. They certainly don't seem too interested in keeping him.

[shally]

Who knows. They certainly don't seem too interested in keeping him.

that was before they released springs.. the only way i can see them getting rid of rogers is if they can pry one of those second rounders from the Pats and there is a player they think can start for them sitting there..

or maybe, if barthels is still out there, i could see them replacing rogers with him

but when it all settles, rogers will start. that is what he wants.. the contract extension will come if he plays well

[BurgundyNGold]

You don't want to go into all the trades Pioli made for veterans in New England do you? By your logic, you would have lost it over the Pats dealing for Moss, Dillion, Welker, etc.

The Pats got screwed on the Cassell/Vrabel deal, but they had to make the moves.

And for the record, Hall, Dock and Haynesworth will never see half the money on their deals.
Yeah, but the Pats got a high 2nd in 2009 for a guy they couldn't keep, as opposed to a mid 3rd they might have gotten in compensation in 2010. Not a bad deal for having to carry $14M on the cap for 3 days. In theory, a 2nd round pick should be a starter for a good FO.

I think this was a good deal all around. Something that we will never get with Vinny at the helm here. I cry myself to sleep thinking that we might have been able to hire Pioli here. But then I cry harder knowing that he probably wouldn't have come here, lol.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Don't we do enough b*tching about Cerrato? Continuing to bring up his shortcomings isn't helping anyone, lol.

[The Iceman]

I'm a believer in Vinny Cerrato and I think he has done a good job of putting talented teams on the field in the last couple years. Yes, he has had a hand in signing some over the hill vets that didn't contribute according to their cap hits, but he has also fielded talented teams. I think this year is no different and I also think that we will have the most talented team on the field this year since 1999. I actually think Cerrato is a pretty good at evaluating talent and I look forward to seeing it all come together this year.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'm a believer in Vinny Cerrato and I think he has done a good job of putting talented teams on the field in the last couple years. Yes, he has had a hand in signing some over the hill vets that didn't contribute according to their cap hits, but he has also fielded talented teams. I think this year is no different and I also think that we will have the most talented team on the field this year since 1999. I actually think Cerrato is a pretty good at evaluating talent and I look forward to seeing it all come together this year.

Vinny desperately needs the 08 draft class to redeem themselves. He failed to improve the team at all last offseason. Don't say Horton, because Horton/Landry is not better than Landry/Taylor the season before.

His job is to improve the team each offseason and he failed at that last year.

[VegasSkinsFan]

Vinny desperately needs the 08 draft class to redeem themselves. He failed to improve the team at all last offseason. Don't say Horton, because Horton/Landry is not better than Landry/Taylor the season before.

His job is to improve the team each offseason and he failed at that last year.

Vinny is not perfect...but you seem to bash him in this post. He gets younger and taller recievers that we all complained we needed and you still bash him. Complain that we dont develop young players and then complain because we get young guys and they dont play like vets. Sorry about not upgrading the loss of Sean Taylor...but i dont think Ed Reed was in the draft last year....and not so sure i would ever pick him over ST either. Give complaints where they are do...but dont bitch and moan when things are tried and happen to fail. Vinny has done a good job so far this year...let it play out. GO SKINS !!!!!!!!

[Red Bear]

I think Haynesworth will fulfill the 4/48 part of his deal. I think they'll push around DeAngelo's money after Springs(and maybe rogers) go off the book entirely.

if haynesworth is the beast for us that he has been and is expected to be over the next 4 years then he will certainly be retained. though he may be a candidate for a new contract with that huge payment due after year 4.

springs will be off the books after this season, has no effect on what hall will be paid in years 2 and 3 of his deal. and there is no june 1st rule this year, as next year is uncapped all money hits the cap this year. and seeing as next year is uncapped there will be no need to push money around. the league is operating from a standpoint that next year will indeed be uncapped, so rogers would be a restricted free agent, barring a trade before then im certain he will be tendered and/or possibly given a new long term contract.

[AliBabba]

that was before they released springs.. the only way i can see them getting rid of rogers is if they can pry one of those second rounders from the Pats and there is a player they think can start for them sitting there..

or maybe, if barthels is still out there, i could see them replacing rogers with him

but when it all settles, rogers will start. that is what he wants.. the contract extension will come if he plays well
Akh I'm with shally here.

With Springs cut now I think that Rogers/Hall will co-exist for years as long as Rogers plays well. I don't think anybody expects him to get 8 picks next year but if he can play lockdown coverage as he did the first half of '08 he and we will be in good shape.

I can situations where Hall is not matched up with the top receiver to allow him to take more gambles while 'Los is asked to be the blanket. Obviously their differeing style and stature will dictate which player plays which receivers often I can see Rogers taking on the other teams #1 more often than not.

As far as his contract is concerned, barring an amazing '09 season I see him getting tendered for 2010 as we put off guaranteeing big money to our players as long as we can. Usually need to earmark those funds for restructures, FA, etc

[AliBabba]

Can't help wishing for a real GM.
Cerrato gives up a 2nd (44th) and a 6th for aging Jason Taylor.
Pioli gives up a 2nd (34th) for a 26 year old QB, and aging Mike Vrabel.
Let the excuse making beign. The Pats needed to unload Cassel, etc., etc.
This franchise is ridiculous.
We pay Dockery 25 million, when we should have a 2nd round pick to draft a G for 5 million over the same duration.
We pay Peyton Manning money to a risky but talented DT.
Hall's agent bluffs our FO into a contract 10-30% above market value.
Even conceding an uncapped 2010 which gets us out of cap purgatory, this FO is maddening. These signings will have the same end result they always do.
yawn

[BurgundyNGold]

I'm a believer in Vinny Cerrato and I think he has done a good job of putting talented teams on the field in the last couple years. Yes, he has had a hand in signing some over the hill vets that didn't contribute according to their cap hits, but he has also fielded talented teams. I think this year is no different and I also think that we will have the most talented team on the field this year since 1999. I actually think Cerrato is a pretty good at evaluating talent and I look forward to seeing it all come together this year.

Click me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpD1sBTa_SU&feature=related)

[RedskinsDave]

I'm a believer in Vinny Cerrato and I think he has done a good job of putting talented teams on the field in the last couple years. Yes, he has had a hand in signing some over the hill vets that didn't contribute according to their cap hits, but he has also fielded talented teams. I think this year is no different and I also think that we will have the most talented team on the field this year since 1999. I actually think Cerrato is a pretty good at evaluating talent and I look forward to seeing it all come together this year.

I too enjoy day drinking.

[shally]

Click me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpD1sBTa_SU&feature=related)

LOL

which one of those characters was Sgt Antonelli ??

[Gravy]

Click me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpD1sBTa_SU&feature=related)

You are my new favorite person...CLASSIC Rebuttal

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Vinny is not perfect...but you seem to bash him in this post. He gets younger and taller recievers that we all complained we needed and you still bash him. Complain that we dont develop young players and then complain because we get young guys and they dont play like vets. Sorry about not upgrading the loss of Sean Taylor...but i dont think Ed Reed was in the draft last year....and not so sure i would ever pick him over ST either. Give complaints where they are do...but dont bitch and moan when things are tried and happen to fail. Vinny has done a good job so far this year...let it play out. GO SKINS !!!!!!!!

I'm not bashing him per se. I'm offering a reality check. Last year was the first year in the last five that he was in charge of personnel. He failed for one year. That cannot be disputed. Now, I am very hopeful Davis, Kelly and Thomas rebound, but if they don't, then it was a disaster. If they do, then he improved the team.

I don't love the contracts handed out this year (I like the players chosen), but there are so many factors at work here (that are beyond anyone who is not an NFL insider) to determine if this offseason will work.

[coffdogg]

It's funny that you have already decided that Pioli has made great moves even before one single preseason snap has been had. I say let's sit back and see how this plays out. I do like the move by the chiefs to get a possible franchise QB for a second round pick. However, I think that Cerrato has put us a good position to be able to draft an OT with our first pick having already plugged most of the other holes on the roster through FA. I don't understand how anyone can bitch and moan all the time when it is very obvious that our FO is doing everything they can to win now. I like how AH put it. He came to Washington instead of Tampa even though the same contract was on the table. He came here because we are a few pieces away from being frontrunners in the NFC East, if not the NFC. Call me optimistic, but isn't that what being a fan is? I think we are poised to have a really good year. If we do, I want a lot crow getting mauled on over all you Cerrato haters.Very nicely stated. I too had reservations about the money BUT we needed every position that we spent money on and you can't bitch that they are not trying. Now would I like to have draft picks and build through the draft... Of Course but it is not in the cards with only 4 picks this year. If we keep our damn picks for next year then maybe we can add more pieces to these parts. Anyway I have a reason to be optimistic and that will due until Sept. Plus I had a Cowgirl fan today in awe that we were doing so much and seemed WORRIED. I love that

[hail2skins]

I'm a believer in Vinny Cerrato and I think he has done a good job of putting talented teams on the field in the last couple years. Yes, he has had a hand in signing some over the hill vets that didn't contribute according to their cap hits, but he has also fielded talented teams. I think this year is no different and I also think that we will have the most talented team on the field this year since 1999. I actually think Cerrato is a pretty good at evaluating talent and I look forward to seeing it all come together this year.I think it's too early to say that in reference to the draft class of 08. He did draft a receiver with a bad knee. Some people feel the problem is that they always feel we are one or two players away from winning it all and that there is no plan to build a team over a period of time. Hence, the aging lines we have now. I think they need to start putting more stock in the draft and use free agency for depth and an ocassional starter. We also need to stop drafting good talent and then letting them depart only to sign free agents from another team and over pay them.

[hail2skins]

I'm also going to warn everyone to watch the language.

[shally]

I'm not bashing him per se. I'm offering a reality check. Last year was the first year in the last five that he was in charge of personnel. He failed for one year. That cannot be disputed. Now, I am very hopeful Davis, Kelly and Thomas rebound, but if they don't, then it was a disaster. If they do, then he improved the team.

I don't love the contracts handed out this year (I like the players chosen), but there are so many factors at work here (that are beyond anyone who is not an NFL insider) to determine if this offseason will work.

the only thing i can say about the contracts this year, especially haynesworth, is that it was what the market was..
we werent bidding against ourselves, we had real competition for AH right up to the end.. if it was Tampa, they had 60 million in cap space. even the giants were rumored to be bidding for a while. AH is the most sought after player in free agency.

as for Hall, you can blame al davis for jerking the market for corners through the roof when he gave asomogha his deal. hall would likely have gotten a great deal from someone else as well, and we really needed to get him signed.

dockery ? we paid a little too much, but others have said that it is most likely
back loaded and we will have him for 2 years before we decide what happens long term. it will get redone if he is the solution. in the meanwhile we got a young, healthy player who already knows our system and the players around him.

we did what we had to do. we improved both lines BEFORE going into the draft.
with only 4 picks we still should be able to cover our remaining needs (except for punter, which must come from a veteran)

cant argue with anything we have done so far. plus, we havent lost any key players as well.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I think it's too early to say that in reference to the draft class of 08. He did draft a receiver with a bad knee. Some people feel the problem is that they always feel we are one or two players away from winning it all and that there is no plan to build a team over a period of time. Hence, the aging lines we have now. I think they need to start putting more stock in the draft and use free agency for depth and an ocassional starter. We also need to stop drafting good talent and then letting them depart only to sign free agents from another team and over pay them.

Here, here lol...

[shally]

I think it's too early to say that in reference to the draft class of 08. He did draft a receiver with a bad knee. Some people feel the problem is that they always feel we are one or two players away from winning it all and that there is no plan to build a team of a period of time. Hence, the aging lines we have now. I think they need to start putting more stock in the draft and use free agency for depth and an ocassional starter. We also need to stop drafting good talent and then letting the depart only to sign free agent from another team and over pay them.

with the return of smoot and now dockery, the only players i can think of who meet that standard are:

clark- yes, we should have kept him
pierce- big mistake. but we compensated very well with fletcher who plays a
lot younger than his years. pierce also had some clunkers
last year as well. so we came out fine.
clemons- we gave up one year too soon. but he is still a role player on a very
good overall defense

am i missing anyone else ? those are about the only guys i can think of who fit that standard...

[Fathead]

We were totally right to let Dockery go. Buffalo offered him waaaaay too much money.

[shally]

We were totally right to let Dockery go. Buffalo offered him waaaaay too much money.

buffalo offered him an insane amount of money.. it bit them 2 days ago..

[Fathead]

And clark we shouldn't even be worrying about. Our safety position should have been settled for the next 8 years. :(

[shally]

And clark we shouldn't even be worrying about. Our safety position should have been settled for the next 8 years. :(

that was simply tragic.. but the arch deluxe move was predictable and stupid.. we were just about the only team who saw him for more than he really was.. of course, chicago giving us anything for him was just as dumb...

and as for clark, pittsburgh supposedly had him replaced as a starter last year with anthony smith.. turned out that smith was a trainwreck waiting to happen, but clark was close to being replaced permanently in pittsburgh

[SkinsfaninNJ]

We were totally right to let Dockery go. Buffalo offered him waaaaay too much money.

The issue with Dock if you recall was some thought he should have never been allowed to hit FA. I wasn't really in that camp though. He struggled often earlier in his career and really started putting it together in his walk year. I don't think he was trying harder that year. I just think the light finally went on for him.

[Fathead]

Dock never earned his keep until his last season here, and then Buffalo offered insane money.

[shally]

The issue with Dock if you recall was some thought he should have never been allowed to hit FA. I wasn't really in that camp though. He struggled often earlier in his career and really started putting it together in his walk year. I don't think he was trying harder that year. I just think the light finally went on for him.

he was useless just about up until the final year.. i understand why the front office was hesitant to commit huge bucks.. they offerred him a deal, and frankly, i believe, even dockery's agent was blown away by the size of the buffalo deal.
we werent going to match- and shouldnt have.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Going back to Pioli for a second, I have a hard time believing another team wouldn't have offered something better for Cassel. It was widely speculated it would take two firsts. Certainly, they should have been able to get one first.

This seems like a going away present, and a deal that wouldn't have happened if Pioli was in the AFC East.

[shally]

Going back to Pioli for a second, I have a hard time believing another team wouldn't have offered something better for Cassel. It was widely speculated it would take two firsts. Certainly, they should have been able to get one first.

This seems like a going away present, and a deal that wouldn't have happened if Pioli was in the AFC East.

i said it also.. this one smells.. they gave vrabel away.. it looked like one of those NBA "voiding contract" deals you see so often

sweetheart deal of some kind...

[colkurtz]

Much of the money which makes these deals sound so high is just pure fluff. The players will never see it.

The Patriots have had a great ride under Belicheat but part of that is due to having one of the GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME; and picking him in the 6th round. Brady could be one of the greats, assuming he can stay healthy.

I'm hard on Vinny but like what he has done so far this off-season. If he concentrates on the lines in the draft we will have improved this team a lot. At least he is not just cruising through the off-season and hoping for the best.

Cerrato is gambling big and this team will either get a lot better or it will flame out and crash like the Hindenburg blimp.

The biggest gamble will be the hope that Jason Campbell can get to the next level. If the team does concentrate the draft on the OL there won't be many more excuses for JC. I think this defense will be helped significantly by AH, which will leave it to the offense to improve. I'm still wondering if Collins will be replaced.

[shally]

Much of the money which makes these deals sound so high is just pure fluff. The players will never see it.

The Patriots have had a great ride under Belicheat but part of that is due to having one of the GREATEST QB OF ALL TIME; and picking him in the 6th round. Brady could be one of the greats, assuming he can stay healthy.

I'm hard on Vinny but like what he has done so far this off-season. If he concentrates on the lines in the draft we will have improved this team a lot. At least he is not just cruising through the off-season and hoping for the best.

Cerrato is gambling big and this team will either get a lot better or it will flame out and crash like the Hindenburg blimp.

The biggest gamble will be the hope that Jason Campbell can get to the next level. If the team does concentrate the draft on the OL there won't be many more excuses for JC. I think this defense will be helped significantly by AH, which will leave it to the offense to improve. I'm still wondering if Collins will be replaced.

i would like to see collins replaced, but i dont think it will happen.. at least not this year

the problem is that if this team crashes after this kind of offseason news, some heads will roll. my guess is that at least JC and Zorn will be the fall guys-- especially if they keep adding OL players in the draft.. neither will have much of an excuse

frankly keeping Hall and adding AH makes it hard for me to believe that the defense wont be at least top 1/3, if not better.

once again, that places it squarely at the feet of the offense

[Red Bear]

that was simply tragic.. but the arch deluxe move was predictable and stupid.. we were just about the only team who saw him for more than he really was.. of course, chicago giving us anything for him was just as dumb...

and as for clark, pittsburgh supposedly had him replaced as a starter last year with anthony smith.. turned out that smith was a trainwreck waiting to happen, but clark was close to being replaced permanently in pittsburgh

clark rebounded well after having his spleen removed, he didnt get the chris simms syndrome


Going back to Pioli for a second, I have a hard time believing another team wouldn't have offered something better for Cassel. It was widely speculated it would take two firsts. Certainly, they should have been able to get one first.

This seems like a going away present, and a deal that wouldn't have happened if Pioli was in the AFC East.

the pats love picking at that part of the draft, the find some of their best players there in the late first/early second. plus they avoid the huge contract of the #3 overall pick had the chiefs given that up. cassel could struggle, he wont be in a NE offense with talent like moss and welker. though haleys offense does feature a lot of downfield passing like NE

[shally]

clark rebounded well after having his spleen removed, he didnt get the chris simms syndrome




the pats love picking at that part of the draft, the find some of their best players there in the late first/early second. plus they avoid the huge contract of the #3 overall pick had the chiefs given that up. cassel could struggle, he wont be in a NE offense with talent like moss and welker. though haleys offense does feature a lot of downfield passing like NE

i think clark is a MAN.. love his heart and character

and part of the reason that haley's offense could go downfield so much was that warner really hangs in the pocket and takes hits. he wont have an O line like he had at NE either..

[RicFlairOne]

Until last year, most of these personnel decisions were made by Gibbs, not Vinny. Thomas, Kelly, and Davis will need to perform this year. If these 3 don't produce in 2009, and if the offense fails again this year and the team is around .500 again, Snyder will probably bring in a Cowher, Gruden, Shanahan to coach for 2010. If any of these 3 men come here, Vinny is gone! That's my opinion, but I feel that this is a make or break year for Vinny. We can all speculate the rest of the offseason about the Skins signings and draft picks, but none of us will really know anything until the FALL 2009, will we? Right now I still say the Giants are the team to beat in the NFC East, but I feel that the Skins are the 2nd best team in the division. Cowboys and the Eagles have too much drama.

[Nomad]

We were totally right to let Dockery go. Buffalo offered him waaaaay too much money.

That I agree with.

[Nomad]

Going back to Pioli for a second, I have a hard time believing another team wouldn't have offered something better for Cassel. It was widely speculated it would take two firsts. Certainly, they should have been able to get one first.

This seems like a going away present, and a deal that wouldn't have happened if Pioli was in the AFC East.

Cassel is hardly a sure thing, and NE couldn't afford 25mil plus just for 2 QBs, so teams had leverage.

[koinzx]

You have to give him a little credit. He is at least trying to put a good team out there. We could have one of those teams that will not spend any money and are just going through the motion of being an NFL team. ie-Detroit, Cincinnati, Oakland, and Cleveland.

[bigcmr]

If Vinny can some how trade down in the draft and make some decent picks. Well then vinny might just have a good off-season. But vinny better not pull one of his classic moves of trading away draft picks.

[colkurtz]

i would like to see collins replaced, but i dont think it will happen.. at least not this year

the problem is that if this team crashes after this kind of offseason news, some heads will roll. my guess is that at least JC and Zorn will be the fall guys-- especially if they keep adding OL players in the draft.. neither will have much of an excuse

frankly keeping Hall and adding AH makes it hard for me to believe that the defense wont be at least top 1/3, if not better.

once again, that places it squarely at the feet of the offense

Exactly. We haven't had a DL of this talent since Charles Mann. A real pass rush will generate turnovers and takeaway that we haven't had in a blue moon. I don't see teams running up and down the field on us late in the game. This defense will scores some points for us.

[shally]

Exactly. We haven't had a DL of this talent since Charles Mann. A real pass rush will generate turnovers and takeaway that we haven't had in a blue moon. I don't see teams running up and down the field on us late in the game. This defense will scores some points for us.

and they are going to generate some short fields for the offense.. that is key for JC.. give him a short field to work with and it takes the pressure off of needing a long drive with third down conversions

[CNYSkinFan]

the title of this shred should be The Geico gecko vs. Godzilla

[Fathead]

Eh, I wouldn't say that yet. Lets see how Pioli does fixing the mess in KC before declaring him responsible for the Pats.

[AliBabba]

the title of this shred should be The Geico gecko vs. Godzilla
lmao

[esmith1790]

and they are going to generate some short fields for the offense.. that is key for JC.. give him a short field to work with and it takes the pressure off of needing a long drive with third down conversions


You are so right, It is falling all on JC. If the offense struggles again, then the defense will be on the field alot and that is not good for AH.


If it appears that JC is not the man, then it could be a wasted season because you have to factor in his contract status. You then would have to determine if Zorn is the man or not for the long haul. Is Zorn's fate tied to Jason?

IF Synder then ponies up and gets Cohwer wants to change to a 3-4, how would that affect Haynesworth then?

This league is all about the QB play, if JC is not the man and the skins have to draft a rookie in 2010 to replace him or roll the dice with Colt, then you have wasted 2 years.

[shally]

Eh, I wouldn't say that yet. Lets see how Pioli does fixing the mess in KC before declaring him responsible for the Pats.

amen !! i am with you on this one `100%

[shally]

You are so right, It is falling all on JC. If the offense struggles again, then the defense will be on the field alot and that is not good for AH.


If it appears that JC is not the man, then it could be a wasted season because you have to factor in his contract status. You then would have to determine if Zorn is the man or not for the long haul. Is Zorn's fate tied to Jason?

IF Synder then ponies up and gets Cohwer wants to change to a 3-4, how would that affect Haynesworth then?

This league is all about the QB play, if JC is not the man and the skins have to draft a rookie in 2010 to replace him or roll the dice with Colt, then you have wasted 2 years.

zorn is most certainly tied to JC.. if the offense sputters again this year, they are BOTH gone

i dont think colt has shown anything yet that makes anyone believe he is the answer. but then after romo's first year, how many thought he was the answer ?
if JC fails then i would sooner see snyder make a play for someone like
cutler than go the rookie qb route.. we have failed with shuler, frerrotte, ramsey and potentially campbell.. on the other hand we made it to the superbowl with kilmer, theisman and williams, and the only homegrown
qb to get us there was rypien.. sounds to me like the odds would be better with a veteran

it would be a darn shame to waste what should be a very solid defense next year. if blache can finally get more aggressive with his schemes, we could be very exciting to watch-- at least on defense...lol

[GenMgr]

zorn is most certainly tied to JC.. if the offense sputters again this year, they are BOTH gone

i dont think colt has shown anything yet that makes anyone believe he is the answer. but then after romo's first year, how many thought he was the answer ?
if JC fails then i would sooner see snyder make a play for someone like
cutler than go the rookie qb route.. we have failed with shuler, frerrotte, ramsey and potentially campbell.. on the other hand we made it to the superbowl with kilmer, theisman and williams, and the only homegrown
qb to get us there was rypien.. sounds to me like the odds would be better with a veteran

it would be a darn shame to waste what should be a very solid defense next year. if blache can finally get more aggressive with his schemes, we could be very exciting to watch-- at least on defense...lol

Whether or not Campbell receives an extension will be an important factor in deciding Zorn's fate.

[Nomad]

You don't want to go into all the trades Pioli made for veterans in New England do you? By your logic, you would have lost it over the Pats dealing for Moss, Dillion, Welker, etc.

The Pats got screwed on the Cassell/Vrabel deal, but they had to make the moves.

And for the record, Hall, Dock and Haynesworth will never see half the money on their deals.

1. The Pats had a solid core that had playoff success before dealing for Moss, Welker, etc. They build primarily through the draft.

2. If the Raiders were dealing w/Cerrato, they would have demanded a 1st rounder and something else, and Cerrato would have given it up.

3. At least Pioli's players have produced. Pioli got Moss, we got Moss. Pioli got Welker, we got Lloyd. Etc.

[The Iceman]

1. The Pats had a solid core that had playoff success before dealing for Moss, Welker, etc. They build primarily through the draft.

2. If the Raiders were dealing w/Cerrato, they would have demanded a 1st rounder and something else, and Cerrato would have given it up.

3. At least Pioli's players have produced. Pioli got Moss, we got Moss. Pioli got Welker, we got Lloyd. Etc.

You can lay New Englands success at Tom Brady's feet. Without him, they are garbage. Not to mention they have played in the weakest division in football the last 7 years (honorable mention nfc west.)

The pats have picked up a lot of FA, and made a lot of trades for players over the years. Take a look at this year for starters. I also hear Springs is in Boston for a look.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I think the only mistake Cerrato has made since last year was the signing of Taylor, but at the time it looked not so bad cause everyone panicked. This year in FA he has done very well, yes expensive, but the contracts are frontloaded which makes them less risky.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I think the only mistake Cerrato has made since last year was the signing of Taylor, but at the time it looked not so bad cause everyone panicked. This year in FA he has done very well, yes expensive, but the contracts are frontloaded which makes them less risky.

So far at least, the three second round draft picks from last year are mistakes as well. Obviously time will tell, but so far, those picks are busts.

[The Iceman]

I think the only mistake Cerrato has made since last year was the signing of Taylor, but at the time it looked not so bad cause everyone panicked. This year in FA he has done very well, yes expensive, but the contracts are frontloaded which makes them less risky.

Not only that, but when have we actually been in cap trouble? Every single year, we are in cap trouble? I don't think so. The people who know, know that the skins are never really in cap trouble. So, who cares how much money Snyderatto throw out there in FA? If they are getting need players... Great. It's not your, or my money that Snyder is spending. Ticket prices are not going up. This is a good thing. I'm so glad we have an owner committed to winning. It's only a matter of time before Zorn gets all hands on deck and gets this ship headed in the right direction.

[RedskinsDave]

Not only that, but when have we actually been in cap trouble? Every single year, we are in cap trouble? I don't think so. The people who know, know that the skins are never really in cap trouble. So, who cares how much money Snyderatto throw out there in FA? If they are getting need players... Great. It's not your, or my money that Snyder is spending. Ticket prices are not going up. This is a good thing. I'm so glad we have an owner committed to winning. It's only a matter of time before Zorn gets all hands on deck and gets this ship headed in the right direction.

What flavor is the kool aid? Sure there hasn't been a cap hell year but each year they keep shoving the problem down the road. Sure they sign names who appear to fill a void but the biggest issue is and will be depth and the inability to draft well. As far as your claim that Vinny has done well with personnel can you tell me how that punter worked out, how we had the least accurate kicker in the NFL who still got a 1m tender and why our kick returner ran more yards sideways than forward. That's just a start. After that, you can tell me why our back up offensive lineman are maybe the worst in the league and why, of the 7 picks last year, why only one contributed and he was a surprise.

The ticket prices not going up is hilarious. Everything else does. Parking and concessions went up and, in the annual "screw the fans over a penny" deal they once again reduced the number of port-a-pots in lot. I am repeatedly astounded by this gesture of ultimate cheapness.

[akhhorus]

1. The Pats had a solid core that had playoff success before dealing for Moss, Welker, etc. They build primarily through the draft.

So your complaint now isn't that we're giving up picks, despite all your rantings about giving up picks(with no context), but that we don't have a core of talent? Any more positions you would like to take Senator Kerry? You've whined about giving up picks, Pioli-whom you want to hold up as the model(despite the fact that Belichek made most of those decisions)-makes moves that you would criticize if the skins did it, and you're now trying to split hairs.

2. If the Raiders were dealing w/Cerrato, they would have demanded a 1st rounder and something else, and Cerrato would have given it up.

Blah blah blah. You're responding with an irrelevant response.

3. At least Pioli's players have produced. Pioli got Moss, we got Moss. Pioli got Welker, we got Lloyd. Etc.

So, its now about production? Unless you want to sound like a hypocrite or someone trying to have it everyway possible: maybe you shouldn't complain about any moves until you see them play?

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

why is there even room for competitio here?
pioli has 5 superbowl appearances as gm,drated one of the best qbs to ever play,kept a dynasty together,he has 3 sb rings.
VC would'nt even qualify as striking paper in this guy's house!

[MDBluefinCrab]

The money has been utterly ridiculous but so far, Vinny "The Sidekick" Cerrato has done a pretty good job.
Now let's see how he does in the draft. He still needs to draft a RT and should use that 13th pick to accomplish that goal. It's called drafting for "need", something that Vinny once said he doesn't believe in, so the jury's still out.

[skinsfan36]

you think they part with rogers ? i dont.. i think this mends a lot of fences because there is no way smoot (who has to restructure, himself) or tryon or any rookie start over rogers..

the contract with come next year...

washington times said all is well with rogers who was also quoted as saying hell yeah when we got haynesworth lol

[The Iceman]

What flavor is the kool aid? Sure there hasn't been a cap hell year but each year they keep shoving the problem down the road. Sure they sign names who appear to fill a void but the biggest issue is and will be depth and the inability to draft well. As far as your claim that Vinny has done well with personnel can you tell me how that punter worked out, how we had the least accurate kicker in the NFL who still got a 1m tender and why our kick returner ran more yards sideways than forward. That's just a start. After that, you can tell me why our back up offensive lineman are maybe the worst in the league and why, of the 7 picks last year, why only one contributed and he was a surprise.

The ticket prices not going up is hilarious. Everything else does. Parking and concessions went up and, in the annual "screw the fans over a penny" deal they once again reduced the number of port-a-pots in lot. I am repeatedly astounded by this gesture of ultimate cheapness.

So, your a Redskins fan why? I happen to enjoy Dan Snyder giving me something to get pumped up about in the offseason. I hope that translates into on field success. If it doesn't then I will eat crow... If it does, your turn.

[CNYSkinFan]

You can lay New Englands success at Tom Brady's feet. Without him, they are garbage. Not to mention they have played in the weakest division in football the last 7 years (honorable mention nfc west.)

The pats have picked up a lot of FA, and made a lot of trades for players over the years. Take a look at this year for starters. I also hear Springs is in Boston for a look.
w/o him last year they went 11-5 and almost made the playoffs. yeah they are garbage.

oh yeah and Pioli decided to draft Cassell despite him not starting in college to make sure we got him.

this is not even close...Pioli>Cerrato

[The Iceman]

why is there even room for competitio here?
pioli has 5 superbowl appearances as gm,drated one of the best qbs to ever play,kept a dynasty together,he has 3 sb rings.
VC would'nt even qualify as striking paper in this guy's house!

This is rediculous. Ya they drafted Tom Brady. They also passed on him through 5 rounds. If Pioli was so damn smart why didn't he draft him with his first pick in the first round??? Ya, Exactly. Tom Brady fell into thier laps. He wouldnt' have ever even got a shot if Drew Bledsoe hadn't gotten hurt. Why didn't Brady win the job outrite? The answer is that neither bellicek nor Pioli knew what they had. Just like noone else. Why do you think Brady got benched his senior year of college for Drew Henson? Don't act like Pioli had this master plan all along. He lucked into Brady. No more, no less.

[The Iceman]

w/o him last year they went 11-5 and almost made the playoffs. yeah they are garbage.

oh yeah and Pioli decided to draft Cassell despite him not starting in college to make sure we got him.

this is not even close...Pioli>Cerrato

Yes, they missed the playoff's with the league weakest schedule and a couple of the best WR in the league. The defense was average at best and well, they didn't make it. Without Brady, they didn't make it. That's it.

[CNYSkinFan]

Yes, they missed the playoff's with the league weakest schedule and a couple of the best WR in the league. The defense was average at best and well, they didn't make it. Without Brady, they didn't make it. That's it.
yeah...and how did we do? Man I can't believe you can even make this argument with a straight face. The Patriots went 11-5 and missed the playoffs, only the second team in history to do so. To argue they are trash is just ridiculous.

We will see in 3 years when the Chiefs are playoff contenders and we are still making excuses for why Vinny's drafts and fa signings were a bust.

[Hr fan]

The issue with Dock if you recall was some thought he should have never been allowed to hit FA. I wasn't really in that camp though. He struggled often earlier in his career and really started putting it together in his walk year. I don't think he was trying harder that year. I just think the light finally went on for him.

If memory serves he hit free agency because the Minn $49M contract to a probowl level G a year earlier(Hutchinson). He wanted to test the waters and given what Buf did he was right. If we had offered what Buf did we would still be regreting it, he is good but not probowl bound. Argue also that while he got good bucks now there are two factors to be considered before calling it an overpay: first the market for O linemen is way up, and second there is no other player that would be as effective immediately in our offense, particularly a rookie.

[shally]

washington times said all is well with rogers who was also quoted as saying hell yeah when we got haynesworth lol

and double hell yeh, when springs got released

this says volumes about who the coaches perceive as the starter..

[RedskinsDave]

So, your a Redskins fan why? I happen to enjoy Dan Snyder giving me something to get pumped up about in the offseason. I hope that translates into on field success. If it doesn't then I will eat crow... If it does, your turn.

What, should I be a lemming like you? Sorry, I criticize my teams when they screw up. I am a season ticket holder who thinks Snyder has been a failure as an owner. I guess if your expectations are blockbuster deals then you will be happy with Snyder.

[skin4ever]

So, your a Redskins fan why? I happen to enjoy Dan Snyder giving me something to get pumped up about in the offseason. I hope that translates into on field success. If it doesn't then I will eat crow... If it does, your turn.

I think everyone on this board(except for Esmith and the few other team fans on the board) hopes if not prays this offseason pans out. However we have been down this road of signing big names before too many times only to have our expectations slammed to the ground with mediocrity. We, or at least I, will always root for the skins, and am excited of the prospect of what this(current) team might be, but i have learned to temper my expectations till they come to fruition.

But really i have been reading your posts for the past week or so, and you are not better than any of us, so get off your high horse. Your recent posts have been all these Naysayers this, and i am fan that. Its really old. We all have the right to commend or complain the team we root for, just because you got on rosier glasses doesnt make you a better or bigger fan.

[The Iceman]

I think everyone on this board(except for Esmith and the few other team fans on the board) hopes if not prays this offseason pans out. However we have been down this road of signing big names before too many times only to have our expectations slammed to the ground with mediocrity. We, or at least I, will always root for the skins, and am excited of the prospect of what this(current) team might be, but i have learned to temper my expectations till they come to fruition.

But really i have been reading your posts for the past week or so, and you are not better than any of us, so get off your high horse. Your recent posts have been all these Naysayers this, and i am fan that. Its really old. We all have the right to commend or complain the team we root for, just because you got on rosier glasses doesnt make you a better or bigger fan.

Being on the other side of rosy doesn't make you a bad fan. I never said I was better than anyone else. If you want to put words in my mouth then crack my password and have at it. Otherwise take my words for what they say.

I'm sick and tired of the naysayers. That is the way I feel. Also, why wouldn't it upset me to hear fellow fans bashing the Owner, Front Office, Coaches, and Players? If I wanted to hear all that garbage then I'd get on a Cowboys fan site. But, to each his own. I am not all high and mighty, I just think there are good things in store for this team and a lot of people on here agree with me.

[The Iceman]

What, should I be a lemming like you? Sorry, I criticize my teams when they screw up. I am a season ticket holder who thinks Snyder has been a failure as an owner. I guess if your expectations are blockbuster deals then you will be happy with Snyder.

I'm happy that an owner does what he thinks is right to help his team. Remember, he's a Redskins fan too. Oh, and I'm a season ticket holder as well, although I'm not sure why you brought that up.

[The Iceman]

What, should I be a lemming like you? Sorry, I criticize my teams when they screw up. I am a season ticket holder who thinks Snyder has been a failure as an owner. I guess if your expectations are blockbuster deals then you will be happy with Snyder.

Speaking of screwing up... Every year in the NFL 31 teams screw up and don't win the SuperBowl. Does that mean that they are bad franchises with bad owners? Negative.

Snyder is not living in the past. He is doing what it takes to win now, this year. Just because you miss on some FA pickups, that doesn't mean you just abort the mission. We have also had some really nice FA pickups.

[RedskinsDave]

Speaking of screwing up... Every year in the NFL 31 teams screw up and don't win the SuperBowl. Does that mean that they are bad franchises with bad owners? Negative.

Snyder is not living in the past. He is doing what it takes to win now, this year. Just because you miss on some FA pickups, that doesn't mean you just abort the mission. We have also had some really nice FA pickups.

You enjoy your pie in the sky attitude. I think it's funny you are tired of the "naysayers" but haven't grown tired of the reasons they say nay. Go ahead and ignore all the failures people point out. Just because Snyder wants to win doesn't mean he will. There are proven ways to win in the NFL and then there's his way. If he keeps up with the big splash FA's, no depth and no draft then the only way he will win will be pure luck and it won't be sustainable.

[BurgundyNGold]

Speaking of screwing up... Every year in the NFL 31 teams screw up and don't win the SuperBowl. Does that mean that they are bad franchises with bad owners? Negative.

Snyder is not living in the past. He is doing what it takes to win now, this year. Just because you miss on some FA pickups, that doesn't mean you just abort the mission. We have also had some really nice FA pickups.
There is a difference between aborting the mission and aborting your plan that has not shown is can work in the NFL (for anybody) in favor of a proven plan that does.

Snyderrato's plan is, as near as I can tell, to do the following:

1) Largely bypass the draft and put a secondary consideration on collegiate scouting
2) Use his vast Redskins cash flow to build his team through free agency with larger percentage signing bonuses than the norm, usually overpaying in the process
3) Trade away draft picks for existing NFL players, usually overpaying in the process.
4) Use what few draft picks he retains and, specifically, the UDFA market as the mortar to tie together the free agents and to provide (often inadequate) depth.
5) Build outside in. That is, skill and edge players first, OL and DL second or third.
6) Carry a lot of dead money on the cap and find creative ways to keep pushing that down the line

The plan that has worked for the last 20 Superbowl or so participants, save perhaps the 2002 Oakland Raiders, has been

1) Acquire as many draft picks as possible and build your core team through the draft
2) Build inside out. That is, anchor your team around a strong OL and DL and then acquire skill and edge positions
3) Use free agency to target specific players that help to tie together your internally drafted and developed players
4) Let players leave via FA before they get too costly as a form of cap management
5) Cut older players a year early or before they become too costly as a form of cap management
6) Use the compensatory picks acquired as a result of steps 4 and 5 to increase your odds at performing step 1

The latter plan works. The teams that have been consistently good for the past 10 years or so have all followed this formula. Meanwhile, Snyderrato's formula has netted us a losing record over that same period. There is no evidence to show that the Snyderrato plan can work in the NFL. And yet, with all but the occasional subtle adjustment, the Snyderrato plan remains essentially the same in 2009 as it was in 2000.

Albert Einstein once posited that "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".

Sounds about right to me.

[BurgundyNGold]

Speaking of screwing up... Every year in the NFL 31 teams screw up and don't win the SuperBowl. Does that mean that they are bad franchises with bad owners? Negative.

Snyder is not living in the past. He is doing what it takes to win now, this year. Just because you miss on some FA pickups, that doesn't mean you just abort the mission. We have also had some really nice FA pickups.
Oh, and 16 different teams have been to the Superbowl since 1999, the year that Danny bought the team. That's half the league, which would imply by correlation of results that Danny is a worse owner than at least half of the other owners in the league. Or at least that his plan is worse than theirs.

[shally]

Oh, and 16 different teams have been to the Superbowl since 1999, the year that Danny bought the team. That's half the league, which would imply by correlation of results that Danny is a worse owner than at least half of the other owners in the league. Or at least that his plan is worse than theirs.

now THAT is damning

[sinskin]

Viny ....Vinny .... Vinny..... bla blah blah


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/razbone/dead-horse.gif

[shally]

Viny ....Vinny .... Vinny..... bla blah blah


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/razbone/dead-horse.gif

i dont know if the admins will let you keep that sig... but it is a hoot....

[BurgundyNGold]

Viny ....Vinny .... Vinny..... bla blah blah


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v259/razbone/dead-horse.gif
If Vinny wasn't here anymore, that would be an apt analogy. For example, I haven't badmouthed Jim Bowden for nearly 6 hours, lol.

Snyderrato keep doing the same dumb things. It is our duty as Redskin fans not to accept them but to point them out and demand better.

[joethefan]

If Vinny wasn't here anymore, that would be an apt analogy. For example, I haven't badmouthed Jim Bowden for nearly 6 hours, lol.

Snyderrato keep doing the same dumb things. It is our duty as Redskin fans not to accept them but to point them out and demand better.

Snyder imo represents todays conciousness that means i gotta have everything right now...instead of working over time to acheive my goal....
short cuts don't mak it in the nfl.....nothing wrong with being upset at these recent moves.....i have come to the conclusion that this is what they do best not saying i agree with it, but if that's thier best, then they are in the wrong business...and until they go 3-13 snyder won't get it....remember we could still be 2 years from detriot........

[Gravy]

Snyder imo represents todays conciousness that means i gotta have everything right now...instead of working over time to acheive my goal....
short cuts don't mak it in the nfl.....nothing wrong with being upset at these recent moves.....i have come to the conclusion that this is what they do best not saying i agree with it, but if that's thier best, then they are in the wrong business...and until they go 3-13 snyder won't get it....remember we could still be 2 years from detriot........

...or 1.

[BurgundyNGold]

Snyder imo represents todays conciousness that means i gotta have everything right now...instead of working over time to acheive my goal....
short cuts don't mak it in the nfl.....nothing wrong with being upset at these recent moves.....i have come to the conclusion that this is what they do best not saying i agree with it, but if that's thier best, then they are in the wrong business...and until they go 3-13 snyder won't get it....remember we could still be 2 years from detriot........
Great post, Joe. However, I've become a bit of a student on Murphy's Law and in that time, I've kind of gotten a feel for how things go. We will likely never win a Superbowl with Danny at the helm but we will never be 3-13 either, lol.

[Gravy]

Great post, Joe. However, I've become a bit of a student on Murphy's Law and in that time, I've kind of gotten a feel for how things go. We will likely never win a Superbowl with Danny at the helm but we will never be 3-13 either, lol.

:eek:...sometimes the truth just sucks

[Hr fan]

I think the only mistake Cerrato has made since last year was the signing of Taylor, but at the time it looked not so bad cause everyone panicked. This year in FA he has done very well, yes expensive, but the contracts are frontloaded which makes them less risky.

Interested in your rationale that front-loaded contracts are less risky. To get to the big bucks in backloaded contracts a player has to be worth keeping. If the $$ go up front there is little incentive (ala Lloyd and his interest in music once the $$ made him independent). ???

[Patrick]

Great post, Joe. However, I've become a bit of a student on Murphy's Law and in that time, I've kind of gotten a feel for how things go. We will likely never win a Superbowl with Danny at the helm but we will never be 3-13 either, lol.

I wouldn't say NEVER ...... but the odds are becoming lottery like.
It just frustrating to watch people having to keep learning the same lessons over and over.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

the only reason snyder signed haynesworth,hall and dockerry was just to let them know that he's got plenty of money and he wont get out bid by anybody!i think we go the best quality players on the f/a market,but the defense was'nt that bad and this ain't helping theoline,portis and campbell much is it?

[shally]

the only reason snyder signed haynesworth,hall and dockerry was just to let them know that he's got plenty of money and he wont get out bid by anybody!i think we go the best quality players on the f/a market,but the defense was'nt that bad and this ain't helping theoline,portis and campbell much is it?

dockery undoubtedly helps.. so will our draft.. the offense wont be ignored the rest of the offseason

[VegasSkinsFan]

dockery undoubtedly helps.. so will our draft.. the offense wont be ignored the rest of the offseason

Dockery will help, and if the FO really wants to upgrade the OLine in this draft, it definately can be done. We can do it with the picks we have, or througha trade down. So many combinations can happen it is hard to guess sometimes. We can go smith then shipley which gives us an OT and C...or trade back and go robinson and then mack/unger/shipley which builds the inside...still would have an issue at RT...either way there are issues. As of today, i am happy with the offseason so far....keep it up VC. GO SKINS !!!!!!

[shally]

Dockery will help, and if the FO really wants to upgrade the OLine in this draft, it definately can be done. We can do it with the picks we have, or througha trade down. So many combinations can happen it is hard to guess sometimes. We can go smith then shipley which gives us an OT and C...or trade back and go robinson and then mack/unger/shipley which builds the inside...still would have an issue at RT...either way there are issues. As of today, i am happy with the offseason so far....keep it up VC. GO SKINS !!!!!!

agree: so far, so good... the job is not done yet but we are off to a good start in meeting obvious needs

[The Iceman]

agree: so far, so good... the job is not done yet but we are off to a good start in meeting obvious needs

Agreed. I believe that our FO is going to put this team in a good position to win. Win the offseason we have had so far and with the draft. If we draft an OT and an OLb with our first two picks I don't see how anyone can be upset at the way the offseason has gone. Well, we do have our Redskins fan/haters. And to those people... I ask. What should we have done? Signed Noone? Then used our whopping 4 picks to fill all our needs? I don't think so. Everything we have done in the offseason so far has been a necessity.

[RedskinsDave]

Agreed. I believe that our FO is going to put this team in a good position to win. Win the offseason we have had so far and with the draft. If we draft an OT and an OLb with our first two picks I don't see how anyone can be upset at the way the offseason has gone. Well, we do have our Redskins fan/haters. And to those people... I ask. What should we have done? Signed Noone? Then used our whopping 4 picks to fill all our needs? I don't think so. Everything we have done in the offseason so far has been a necessity.

You crack me up. Whose fault is it we had the needs to fill? Answer: Snyderatto. Whose fault is it there are only 4 picks? Answer: Snyderatto. I am glad they got Haynesworth but I am not convinced he won't be a bust. Many people aren't. Hall's deal is pretty pricey too and he's a risk. The best signing was Dock.

Call those of us who find fault with the way the team is run haters again though, Super Fan. I'd rather be a hater than a mindless lemming.

[RedskinsDave]

Hey Iceman, your boys gave up a 2nd and a 6th for a one year rental and an old one at that. Please tell us how it was a great move and how you think they did the right thing or something similarly stupid.

[shally]

Hey Iceman, your boys gave up a 2nd and a 6th for a one year rental and an old one at that. Please tell us how it was a great move and how you think they did the right thing or something similarly stupid.


move made out of desperation because, you know, we were going deep into the playoffs last year and taylor was the missing piece..

[Nomad]

You crack me up. Whose fault is it we had the needs to fill? Answer: Snyderatto. Whose fault is it there are only 4 picks? Answer: Snyderatto. I am glad they got Haynesworth but I am not convinced he won't be a bust. Many people aren't. Hall's deal is pretty pricey too and he's a risk. The best signing was Dock.

Call those of us who find fault with the way the team is run haters again though, Super Fan. I'd rather be a hater than a mindless lemming.

Exactly. And even Dock is just a good G--the kind you should be able to find with 2nd and 3rd round picks for well under 1 mill per year. Except, of course, our 3rd round G pick last year isn't anywhere near NFL ready.

And that 2nd we don't have (along with the 6th), was spent on a player that didn't do jack squat and was just cut. A 2nd and 6th for one LOUSY season. Where are all the superfans who defended that last year? People sang the same song they are singing now when we traded for Taylor.

We paid far too much for all our FAs--even if they pan out. And anyone who has watched the FA history of this FO who has confidence in them doing so must have LSD in the kool aid.

[The Iceman]

You crack me up. Whose fault is it we had the needs to fill? Answer: Snyderatto. Whose fault is it there are only 4 picks? Answer: Snyderatto. I am glad they got Haynesworth but I am not convinced he won't be a bust. Many people aren't. Hall's deal is pretty pricey too and he's a risk. The best signing was Dock.

Call those of us who find fault with the way the team is run haters again though, Super Fan. I'd rather be a hater than a mindless lemming.

Your personal attacks are mindless. I'm simply stating my opinion just as you are. Carry on.

[RedskinsDave]

Your personal attacks are mindless. I'm simply stating my opinion just as you are. Carry on.

You referred to people like me as haters. Tell us haters your opinion of the Jason Taylor deal.

[Nomad]

Not only that, but when have we actually been in cap trouble? Every single year, we are in cap trouble? I don't think so. The people who know, know that the skins are never really in cap trouble. So, who cares how much money Snyderatto throw out there in FA? If they are getting need players... Great. It's not your, or my money that Snyder is spending. Ticket prices are not going up. This is a good thing. I'm so glad we have an owner committed to winning. It's only a matter of time before Zorn gets all hands on deck and gets this ship headed in the right direction.

JANSEN WOULD BE CUT, AS WOULD THOMAS, IF WE HAD CAP ROOM--AND DRAFT PICKS. OUR CAP SITUATION CONSTANTLY REQUIRES US TO EXTEND OR REWORK DEALS, RESULTING IN OLDER PLAYERS TOO EXPENSIVE TO CUT. WHO COULD WE SIGN WITH THE ALMOST 20 MIL JANSEN AND THOMAS EARN THIS YEAR?

[skin4ever]

Hey Ice Man. Are you Vinny? Not JK. Are u a plant of the Skins organization sent here to spew mindless propaganda. You are too funny. There is no changing your mind. History teaches us alot of things. Hope is why i voted for Obama. And regret is what happens when history comes around and bites you in the petunyas. The good moves this FO has made are outweighed by the bad ones. Again, EVERY SKINS FAN ON THIS SITE AND ACROSS THE GLOBE, WISHES THAT THESE MOVES PAY OFF AND WE WIN A SUPERBOWL. But to go in blindly given the recent history of this franchise, seems a little naive. Just my opinion.

What are your thoughts of the past preseason extravaganza moves: Like signing Sanders, Smith, Archeleta, Lloyd, Duckett, etc. and trading away/releasing/or simply letting go of, Clark, Pierce, and Bailey, J.Taylor etc. And given the current market and the little cap room we have, how are we going to fill the holes left depth at all line positions and LBs, when we only have 4 picks. What is there to be as optimistic as you are, without tempered expectations, that this team will(100% be successful for certain). The only thing i am looking forward to this offseason is to see the moves made by this team to fill those holes and become a strong competitive team.

[BurgundyNGold]

Hey Ice Man. Are you Vinny? Not JK. Are u a plant of the Skins organization sent here to spew mindless propaganda. You are too funny. There is no changing your mind. History teaches us alot of things. Hope is why i voted for Obama. And regret is what happens when history comes around and bites you in the petunyas. The good moves this FO has made are outweighed by the bad ones. Again, EVERY SKINS FAN ON THIS SITE AND ACROSS THE GLOBE, WISHES THAT THESE MOVES PAY OFF AND WE WIN A SUPERBOWL. But to go in blindly given the recent history of this franchise, seems a little naive. Just my opinion.

What are your thoughts of the past preseason extravaganza moves: Like signing Sanders, Smith, Archeleta, Lloyd, Duckett, etc. and trading away/releasing/or simply letting go of, Clark, Pierce, and Bailey, J.Taylor etc. And given the current market and the little cap room we have, how are we going to fill the holes left depth at all line positions and LBs, when we only have 4 picks. What is there to be as optimistic as you are, without tempered expectations, that this team will(100% be successful for certain). The only thing i am looking forward to this offseason is to see the moves made by this team to fill those holes and become a strong competitive team.
Agreed. If you take 3 steps backward for every 2 steps forward you're still moving backwards, even if it is not as immediately apparent as just taking 5 steps backward. ;)