Jason Campbell for Jay Cutler?

[LASkin]

Denver appears to be willing to get rid of Cutler. They were going to trade him for Matt Cassell. Maybe they would trade him for JC?

Advantages to Denver: get rid of Cutler, who is now ticked off at them; get an extra year of NFL experience in JC; get a QB with similar stats (QB rating 86 for Cutler versus 84 for JC).

Advantages to Washington: get the biggest arm in the league; get a leader with more fire; get more ability to hit the WR deep.

[The Iceman]

Denver appears to be willing to get rid of Cutler. They were going to trade him for Matt Cassell. Maybe they would trade him for JC?

Advantages to Denver: get rid of Cutler, who is now ticked off at them; get an extra year of NFL experience in JC; get a QB with similar stats (QB rating 86 for Cutler versus 84 for JC).

Advantages to Washington: get the biggest arm in the league; get a leader with more fire; get more ability to hit the WR deep.

Oh no, I was waiting for this. No way. Why do we need to dump Campbell? Why is it so hard for everyone to give him a chance to be in the same system for a period of time and own it? Sheesh.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

If Cutler is available...Denver isn't trading him for Campbell.

Denver would want the 13th pick.

[SimplyZ]

Never going to happen.

McDaniel only was willing to get rid of Cutler because he loved Cassel. He has no ties to Campbell and I have a feeling he'd prefer Cutler anyways.

[The Iceman]

Never going to happen.

McDaniel only was willing to get rid of Cutler because he loved Cassel. He has no ties to Campbell and I have a feeling he'd prefer Cutler anyways.

True.

[AliBabba]

True.
there's a rumor (very unfounded): 3-way w/ KC and Denver ... we get Cutler, Denver gets Cassel, and KC gets JC and draft picks fly around

[ClubSandwichGuy]

I think we need an o-line and a some WRs before we can really see what Campbell can do.

[shally]

Never going to happen.

McDaniel only was willing to get rid of Cutler because he loved Cassel. He has no ties to Campbell and I have a feeling he'd prefer Cutler anyways.

probably.. there is also the draft if he wants someone else

[Hr fan]

Oh no, I was waiting for this. No way. Why do we need to dump Campbell? Why is it so hard for everyone to give him a chance to be in the same system for a period of time and own it? Sheesh.

Amen!!! Give him stability and tools (WRs that can run patterns past the chains, an O line that can lower his medical insurance costs, etc.) and time, and then make judgements.

[Jon Creveling]

Rivers yes! Cutler no, atleast the timing may be off a bit, but ask me again after game 8.:)

[Brit'Skin]

If Cutler is available...Denver isn't trading him for Campbell.

Denver would want the 13th pick.

and it would be totally worth it.

[NCskinsfanatic]

there's a rumor (very unfounded): 3-way w/ KC and Denver ... we get Cutler, Denver gets Cassel, and KC gets JC and draft picks fly around

lmao...that sounds so far fetched I supopose it could happen with Vinny at the helm. Why would KC do that though?

[The Iceman]

This just in:

This is so crazy it just might work.:rolleyes:

[NCskinsfanatic]

We do play Denver in Washington this year...

[Gravy]

there's a rumor (very unfounded): 3-way w/ KC and Denver ... we get Cutler, Denver gets Cassel, and KC gets JC and draft picks fly around

Where did that come from...I thought it was suppose to be a 3 way with KC, Denver, and NE but it wound up being just NE & KC...

[BurgundyNGold]

there's a rumor (very unfounded): 3-way w/ KC and Denver ... we get Cutler, Denver gets Cassel, and KC gets JC and draft picks fly around
On the surface, that might seem OK. My concern is that Cutler is an arrogant, dangerous gunslinger who takes worse risks than Favre without actually being Favre. We'd be trading quiet and meek for arrogant and overly aggressive. Oh, and Cutler has Type I diabetes, which could affect his playing days.

[Gravy]

...I can't see this happening nor the logic behind a move like this happening.

[BurgundyNGold]

We do play Denver in Washington this year...
Hence Denver's interest in NFC free agents like Dawkins this season. ;)

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

after looking at some skins games on dvd from campbell's last 3 seasons,if a cutler for campbell trade came up,i'd say do it.campbell has had an awful o line,but beyond his toughness,i can't see him as the redskins qb of the future.

[Shawnb555]

On the surface, that might seem OK. My concern is that Cutler is an arrogant, dangerous gunslinger who takes worse risks than Favre without actually being Favre. We'd be trading quiet and meek for arrogant and overly aggressive. Oh, and Cutler has Type I diabetes, which could affect his playing days.

Diabetes will have no effect on his playing abilities they monitor far to well

[Rogers_Redskins]

I would do it. Cutlers' release is a thousand times faster then Jason's, he would fit into this system very well.

[FunBunch5]

Yes JC for JC where does Vinny sign. The Skins would be stealing from Denver. Unfortunately it will never happen.

[LASkin]

Yes JC for JC where does Vinny sign. The Skins would be stealing from Denver. Unfortunately it will never happen.

Maybe not, but it's worth a try. I would not have swapped Cutler for Cassel, which is essentially what Denver tried to do. Now they have ticked off Cutler and he wants out, so they have more motivation to consider a trade.

Bottom line, I see no evidence that JC can be great, but I think Cutler will be great. As for JC: if he breaks through to greatness I would be very surprised. I've felt the same way about him going back to his college days. I saw a lot of Cutler on West Coast TV, and he generated a record similar to the Redskins' (admittedly in a very weak division) with NOTHING. The defense stunk, the running game was the worst Shanahan ever had, the OL and WRs were below average.

Denver is rebuilding, and they need help everywhere. Why not throw in a low pick or a marginal player and try it?

[PyroGenic]

Why on earth would the Broncos want Jason Campbell? It doesn't even seem as though the Redskins want him beyond this next season.

[CarMike]

Rivers yes! Cutler no, atleast the timing may be off a bit, but ask me again after game 8.:)

The day Phillip Rivers puts on a Redskins jersey may be the day I stop being a Redskins fan. Couldn't stomach the thought of cheering for that cry baby.

[NCskinsfanatic]

The day Phillip Rivers puts on a Redskins jersey may be the day I stop being a Redskins fan. Couldn't stomach the thought of cheering for that cry baby.

I like Rivers not sure if I had ever shared that with you Mike :devil1: and he'd be an upgrade over Campbell unless JC improves by leaps and bounds this year.

[LASkin]

Why on earth would the Broncos want Jason Campbell? It doesn't even seem as though the Redskins want him beyond this next season.

Would you have traded Cutler for Cassel? They were going to do it. I would not have, and I like Cassel.

The argument to them: you're looking at 2 QBs with nearly identical QB ratings and similar stats. They had identical 8-8 records. Both had weak supporting casts, so no difference there. Maybe a change of scenery would be good for both. For Denver, they get a QB with a contract that expires after next year, which might be attractive for a team that's rebuilding if they don't like what they see.

[PyroGenic]

Would you have traded Cutler for Cassel? They were going to do it. I would not have, and I like Cassel.

The argument to them: you're looking at 2 QBs with nearly identical QB ratings and similar stats. They had identical 8-8 records. Both had weak supporting casts, so no difference there. Maybe a change of scenery would be good for both. For Denver, they get a QB with a contract that expires after next year, which might be attractive for a team that's rebuilding if they don't like what they see.

I think there's more to a QB than a QB rating. Cutler has intangibles that Campbell doesn't have, even if Campbell is improving every year. Either way, I bet the league consensus is that Cutler is the superior player.

It's already been mentioned why they would want Cassel as the starting QB as opposed to Cutler, so I won't go into that.

[CarMike]

I like Rivers not sure if I had ever shared that with you Mike :devil1: and he'd be an upgrade over Campbell unless JC improves by leaps and bounds this year.

My post was just for you Eric. :)

I did mean it though.

[GibbsFan]

Rivers = yes, Cutler = No, Campbell=Maybe

JC may still pan out as an above average QB1. Cutler :cry: is a way bigger crybaby than Rivers :cry:

[shally]

On the surface, that might seem OK. My concern is that Cutler is an arrogant, dangerous gunslinger who takes worse risks than Favre without actually being Favre. We'd be trading quiet and meek for arrogant and overly aggressive. Oh, and Cutler has Type I diabetes, which could affect his playing days.

we had the exact same type of player in Joe T

the diabetes is an issue, but if you look at a player like bobby clarke, the hockey great, he was able to function at an elite level for a long long time in a sport that is a lot harder physically

[LASkin]

we had the exact same type of player in Joe T

the diabetes is an issue, but if you look at a player like bobby clarke, the hockey great, he was able to function at an elite level for a long long time in a sport that is a lot harder physically

Same attitude, but what a gun compared to Thiesman.

There have been a number of other pro athetes with Type 1 diabetes as well - Catfish Hunter and Bill Gullickson (MLB), Toby Peterson and Nick Boynton (NHL), Adam Morrison (NBA), Wade Wilson (NFL QB), and Kelli Kuehne and Scott Verplank (PGA), for example.

[shally]

There have been a number of other pro athetes with Type 1 diabetes as well - Catfish Hunter and Bill Gullickson (MLB), Toby Peterson and Nick Boynton (NHL), Adam Morrison (NBA), Wade Wilson (NFLQB), and Kelli Kuehne and Scott Verplank (PGA), for example.

thanks for sharing that info.. it can be managed with proper oversight

[OCSKINSFAN]

I would do that trade in a minute. In my view it would be like the Snead for Jurgenson trade. Agree it won't happen.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Same attitude, but what a gun compared to Thiesman.

There have been a number of other pro athetes with Type 1 diabetes as well - Catfish Hunter and Bill Gullickson (MLB), Toby Peterson and Nick Boynton (NHL), Adam Morrison (NBA), Wade Wilson (NFL QB), and Kelli Kuehne and Scott Verplank (PGA), for example.

Joe had a better head than Cutler though. Cutler thinks he can beat any corner and tries to prove it all the time. Joe, on the other hand, was cocky but also did a far better job at playing QB much smarter.

Cutler has a LOT of growing up to do to reach his potential. If he does, he will be great. If he doesn't 6-10 - 10-6 is about what the Broncos can hope for each year.

[skinsfaninva]

I don't think that Denver would do a straight up so I could see a Cutler, rd 2 pick, rd 3 pick for Campbell, #13 and 4th round pick. Would you pull the trigger on that trade?

[shally]

Joe had a better head than Cutler though. Cutler thinks he can beat any corner and tries to prove it all the time. Joe, on the other hand, was cocky but also did a far better job at playing QB much smarter.

Cutler has a LOT of growing up to do to reach his potential. If he does, he will be great. If he doesn't 6-10 - 10-6 is about what the Broncos can hope for each year.

it took joe T some time on the bench and a stint in canada to grow up.. cutler is still a baby that way. he has all the physical tools to be a great one.

i think that elway may be the better comparison than favre...

[shally]

I don't think that Denver would do a straight up so I could see a Cutler, rd 2 pick, rd 3 pick for Campbell, #13 and 4th round pick. Would you pull the trigger on that trade?
no

wait a year. either cutler gets pulled off the market, or the price slides.
remember culpepper fetched just a #2 in trade..

[SkinsfaninNJ]

it took joe T some time on the bench and a stint in canada to grow up.. cutler is still a baby that way. he has all the physical tools to be a great one.

i think that elway may be the better comparison than favre...

Joe had the benefit of playing in a different time (a better NFL if you ask me). Now, a young QB doesn't get much time to produce before they become a back-up. This is JC's last year. Cutler has one more after this at most to show more than he has.

Eli was on his last year before the SB run. Aaron Rodgers probably has two more years to show more than he has.

A lot of pressure for young guys.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Why on earth would the Broncos want Jason Campbell? It doesn't even seem as though the Redskins want him beyond this next season.Exactly. No way we could get that deal.

[shally]

Joe had the benefit of playing in a different time (a better NFL if you ask me). Now, a young QB doesn't get much time to produce before they become a back-up. This is JC's last year. Cutler has one more after this at most to show more than he has.

Eli was on his last year before the SB run. Aaron Rodgers probably has two more years to show more than he has.

A lot of pressure for young guys.

you could not possibly be more correct.. the days of a young qb staying on the bench for a few years are over-- if they are a high pick

on the other hand, there are still guys like trent green, or gannon, or even rhomo who sit and wait their turn.. BUT the difference is that all those guys were free agents or really low picks.. if you are taken in the first round as a qb, the expectation (realistic or not) is that you better be ready by year 2..
or people are going to start grumbling and calling you a bust

[BurgundyNGold]

Diabetes will have no effect on his playing abilities they monitor far to well
That's not necessarily true. His blood sugar levels could have an impact during games, as it did last season. Plus, his long term viability in the league are far from certain.

[akhhorus]

That's not necessarily true. His blood sugar levels could have an impact during games, as it did last season. Plus, his long term viability in the league are far from certain.

That did effect him before he got it diagnosed. I believe the Broncos have a member of the training staff monitoring it constantly during games and giving him sugar when he needs it.

[BurgundyNGold]

That did effect him before he got it diagnosed. I believe the Broncos have a member of the training staff monitoring it constantly during games and giving him sugar when he needs it.
That's true, but he had to come out for a few series in one game last season to get some treatment, if I'm not mistaken. Not that it's a big deal. Until it is.

[shally]

That did effect him before he got it diagnosed. I believe the Broncos have a member of the training staff monitoring it constantly during games and giving him sugar when he needs it.


agree. as long as they stay on top of it, he should be fine at his age.. the complications tend to set in later in life-- or if you are untreated

[akhhorus]

That's true, but he had to come out for a few series in one game last season to get some treatment, if I'm not mistaken. Not that it's a big deal. Until it is.

He did have 616 out of their 620 passes last year, and most of those he missed was because he hurt his hand in some night game. It could be an issue, but his talent vastly outweights any potential problems imo. They won't deal him, even for 3 1st round picks.

[Skinz4lyfe]

I'd do it if this were madden. However, I wouldn't approach the Broncos w/a deal. They'd never agree to it. If Campbell has issues w/our offense, do you expect him to do well running McDaniels offense? I'd think not. McDaniels probably felt more comfortable w/Cassel and rightfully so but he has one of the best QBs in the game in Cutler. I'd be interesting to see what he'd do w/an actual running game. Denver hasn't had a consistent running game since Portis left. I believe that contributes to him gambling and making mistakes.

[shally]

cutler is still fuming at the broncos... pro football talk has a short note saying he has refused to meet with the front office for now..

this could end up being like the mcnabb situation in philly where the player is saying the front office has to show some love after wounding his pride

[Chief Redskin]

I would take Cutler over Campbell any day of the week. Cutler is a gun-slinger and Campbell is gun shy....... I would throw in a first round pick too. However, we all know it will never happen.

[skinsfan36]

cutler is a tough fearless,strong armed leader. he is my favorite qb in the nfl so id be estatic if we got him. if he came though he would need to bring his trainer from denver since he is diabetic. our trainers seem to never be able to treat leg injuries to well so this would be over their head

[sinskin]

in a New York second I would do it!

[shally]

cutler is a tough fearless,strong armed leader. he is my favorite qb in the nfl so id be estatic if we got him. if he came though he would need to bring his trainer from denver since he is diabetic. our trainers seem to never be able to treat leg injuries to well so this would be over their head

that is true.. sadly we seem to be helpless to prevent pulls and tears

[IndySkin]

First off, Cutler has every right to be unhappy with this situation. McDaniels has downed too many gallons of the Belicheat kool-aid.

I would make this trade in a heartbeat, and would do whatever it would take to make it happen. The one thing that stands out to me is Cutler's leadership. One game that stand's out is the Denver/Cleveland shootout from last season when Denver is down with like 1:30 to go. Cutler generated an Elway-esque drive that lead the Broncos to victory. The camera had a close up on him between downs and you could see it in his eyes that there was no way that he and his team were going to lose that game. I just don't see that kind of fire in Campbell.

Stats? QB rating and team records are unfair comparisons when it comes to these two. The only thing Denver had going for them last year was the passing game (Cutler threw for 1300 more yards then Campbell last year). There is no way that Campbell could have generated those numbers last year if he were in Cutler's shoes. Campbell did have good stats, but was protected by a solid running game which forced defenses to respect the run. Plus the majority of Campbell's throws were five yard outs.....wait....I'm getting sick to my stomach, so I'll stop talking about that.

Yeah, Cutler has diabetes (with this day in age of medicine, it's not a big deal and people blow it out of proportion....especially the media because it gives them something to write about). People say he's immature....c'mon, it's not so much that he is immature as is that he WANTS to WIN (remember when he called out Brandon Marshall last year for his off season shenanigans and how Marshall wasn't respecting the team? that isn't leadership?).

Campbell has had his chance. Everyone said the same things about Ramsey and how he got an unfair shake. Where is Patrick Ramsey now? He's backing up Cutler, and will never start for another NFL team. Why? He didn't have it. This may hurt some people's feelings, but Campbell isn't too much different than Ramsey.

So Cutler is arrogant. He's a freaking NFL quarterback! All starting NFL quarterbacks are arrogant. Why wouldn't they be? They are only the leaders of their teams and normally have smoking hot girlfriends....if I were a starting QB, I would be arrogant.

We are talking about two different players that aren't comparable. While this trade probably will never happen, if the Redskins had an opportunity to get Cutler, it would be the wisest decision that the Snyder- owned era has ever made. Cutler IS a franchise QB, Campbell is not.

[shally]

cutler is a tough fearless,strong armed leader. he is my favorite qb in the nfl so id be estatic if we got him. if he came though he would need to bring his trainer from denver since he is diabetic. our trainers seem to never be able to treat leg injuries to well so this would be over their head

First off, Cutler has every right to be unhappy with this situation. McDaniels has downed too many gallons of the Belicheat kool-aid.

I would make this trade in a heartbeat, and would do whatever it would take to make it happen. The one thing that stands out to me is Cutler's leadership. One game that stand's out is the Denver/Cleveland shootout from last season when Denver is down with like 1:30 to go. Cutler generated an Elway-esque drive that lead the Broncos to victory. The camera had a close up on him between downs and you could see it in his eyes that there was no way that he and his team were going to lose that game. I just don't see that kind of fire in Campbell.

Stats? QB rating and team records are unfair comparisons when it comes to these two. The only thing Denver had going for them last year was the passing game (Cutler threw for 1300 more yards then Campbell last year). There is no way that Campbell could have generated those numbers last year if he were in Cutler's shoes. Campbell did have good stats, but was protected by a solid running game which forced defenses to respect the run. Plus the majority of Campbell's throws were five yard outs.....wait....I'm getting sick to my stomach, so I'll stop talking about that.

Yeah, Cutler has diabetes (with this day in age of medicine, it's not a big deal and people blow it out of proportion....especially the media because it gives them something to write about). People say he's immature....c'mon, it's not so much that he is immature as is that he WANTS to WIN (remember when he called out Brandon Marshall last year for his off season shenanigans and how Marshall wasn't respecting the team? that isn't leadership?).

Campbell has had his chance. Everyone said the same things about Ramsey and how he got an unfair shake. Where is Patrick Ramsey now? He's backing up Cutler, and will never start for another NFL team. Why? He didn't have it. This may hurt some people's feelings, but Campbell isn't too much different than Ramsey.

So Cutler is arrogant. He's a freaking NFL quarterback! All starting NFL quarterbacks are arrogant. Why wouldn't they be? They are only the leaders of their teams and normally have smoking hot girlfriends....if I were a starting QB, I would be arrogant.

We are talking about two different players that aren't comparable. While this trade probably will never happen, if the Redskins had an opportunity to get Cutler, it would be the wisest decision that the Snyder- owned era has ever made. Cutler IS a franchise QB, Campbell is not.

actually, ramsey is unemployed right now.. he WAS the backup but was not re-signed

he went to houston and got a look but they signed Orlovsky to a 9 mil/ 3 year contract instead of Ram.. he will likely find work again in 2009, but he looks to be about out of options pretty soon

[IndySkin]

actually, ramsey is unemployed right now.. he WAS the backup but was not re-signed

he went to houston and got a look but they signed Orlovsky to a 9 mil/ 3 year contract instead of Ram.. he will likely find work again in 2009, but he looks to be about out of options pretty soon

Thanks for the correction, and it also confirms my point.

[Chief Redskin]

It's a mute point.....Sure, McDaniels may have wanted Cassel over Cutler, but that's it. He would never trade Cutler for Campbell....even if we sweetened the deal.

However, Daniel Snyder (cough...cough) if your out there....I might be willing to pay for better seats if you pulled off a trade for Jay Cutler...cough...

[Jon Creveling]

The day Phillip Rivers puts on a Redskins jersey may be the day I stop being a Redskins fan. Couldn't stomach the thought of cheering for that cry baby.

When was he a crybaby? Didn't he play that 07 playoff game on a bum knee?

He (Rivers) much more so than Cutler reminds me of a young Joe Theismann, the fire and talent are there and just maybe like us in the late 70's S.D. has to wait on him putting it all together.

Not sure of the kids stats (where the hell is AHK when you need him?:)) but in the games I've watched while yes Cutler has more fire than Jason for sure, he's a slob with the ball. Not saying he's a bum, based only on games I've seen 1st hand.

[MadDog97]

Get an offensive line in place then judge JC. This would be a stupid move. I am sorry but I see this team going back down the path of thinking FA will solve all our problems. JC is not the issue. It was the lack of blocking that caused the problems.

[joethefan]

id rather judge campbell when his line he has a line that can play....that unit let jason down last year.....and they (players) know it......it amazes me how we expect qbs to make water into wine.....but give them no help...most qbs in the league that had badd lines...didn't do too well....so why do we think jason should be any different....when romo's line was horrible two years ago he was horrible....and so on....

wow..many of you are killing me..

when he was 6-2 no one was complaining .... their is a reason why we fell the second half of that season....oline deteriorated...is that jason's fault?....

[joethefan]

We are talking about two different players that aren't comparable. While this trade probably will never happen, if the Redskins had an opportunity to get Cutler, it would be the wisest decision that the Snyder- owned era has ever made. Cutler IS a franchise QB, Campbell is not.

that is because denver understands the importance of protecting the qb....have we uderstood that principle in the way we draft or go through fa...I think not...

[Redskinmayhem]

id rather judge campbell when his line he has a line that can play....that unit let jason down last year.....and they (players) know it......it amazes me how we expect qbs to make water into wine.....but give them no help...most qbs in the league that had badd lines...didn't do too well....so why do we think jason should be any different....when romo's line was horrible two years ago he was horrible....and so on....

wow..many of you are killing me..

when he was 6-2 no one was complaining .... their is a reason why we fell the second half of that season....oline deteriorated...is that jason's fault?....

gonna have to agree w/ you, JTF. They Jury is still out on JCamp due to circumstances beyond his control (the O-line and the FO's neglect of it). Lets see how things go this year. If the line play is up to par, he should improve dramatically over last year. That said, I still expect him to improve his game, regardless of the line's play.

[IndySkin]

If our offensive line was so bad, then how does Portis rush for the yards he did last year? Please do not give me the "pass protection was worse than the run protection" speech.

As of right now, the Jason Campell era is coming very close to paralleling the Patrick Ramsey era. Two former first round draft picks that haven't gotten fair shake. They have been forced to learn new offenses year after year and deal with new head coaches.

Let me ask this, do you think Jay Cutler would need a one-two years to figure out our offensive system. No. He would probably have it figured out before the end of training camp (that is if he were acquired before training camp started).

I'm not throwing Campbell under the bus, but I'm calling it like I see it. Would a better offensive line help him? Maybe. Would better receivers help him? He needs them (except for Cooley). How many more years and how many more players do we need to give Jason Campbell?

I guarantee if Jay Cutler played for this team last year, we would have been in the playoffs, no questions. Now I'm not blaming Jason Campbell for us not making th playoffs, but the added leadership that Cutler possess and his will to win would have been enough to get us over that hump.

[Moe]

If our offensive line was so bad, then how does Portis rush for the yards he did last year? Please do not give me the "pass protection was worse than the run protection" speech.

The line was healthy and the games wherein Portis gained the bulk of yardage came against weaker, earlier season competition. It's been shown here the hit the offense as a whole took when Samuels went down and that, in conjunction with a string of games against Pitt, Baltimore, a resurgent Dallas D, etc. combined to stifle the running game and by extension the entire O.

As of right now, the Jason Campell era is coming very close to paralleling the Patrick Ramsey era. Two former first round draft picks that haven't gotten fair shake. They have been forced to learn new offenses year after year and deal with new head coaches.

I can buy this comparison, but Campbell is enjoying a more stable ride at this point than Ramsey every saw. I think we all agree he's shown more potential as well, but this season is pretty much make or break for him.

Let me ask this, do you think Jay Cutler would need a one-two years to figure out our offensive system. No. He would probably have it figured out before the end of training camp (that is if he were acquired before training camp started).

That's misdrection. Cutler was inserted as the starter on a Broncos team with a 3 game divsion lead and he managed to win only one game the rest of the year as they missed the playoffs. I could construct an argument suggesting that Campbell could've taken over that Broncos team and done better and it'd be just as empty.

Would a better offensive line help him? Maybe.

Without question it'd help and with the obvious being stated about the need at RT, it would seem like this should be in place for him.

Would better receivers help him? He needs them (except for Cooley).

He needs more consistency from his vets and much more improvment from the second year guys. If those guys don't carry their share, Montana wouldn't help this team.

How many more years and how many more players do we need to give Jason Campbell?

I think this year is it.

I guarantee if Jay Cutler played for this team last year, we would have been in the playoffs, no questions. Now I'm not blaming Jason Campbell for us not making th playoffs, but the added leadership that Cutler possess and his will to win would have been enough to get us over that hump.

Leadership is impossible to quantify and IMO was pretty far down the list of reasons why this team didn't make the playoffs. Placing it all on Campbell not only isn't fair, it isn't accurate. Zorn made his share of mistakes and the D failed to hold up on several key instances. Much of the criticisms levied upon this staff can be applied to the heralded Shannihan who had Cutler for several year and never produced anything.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

If our offensive line was so bad, then how does Portis rush for the yards he did last year? Please do not give me the "pass protection was worse than the run protection" speech.

I am confused by this comment. When the oline was good, during the first half of the season, Jason Campbell was an MVP candidate. In fact, Ron Jaworski, who knows a little something about QB's said, that at the half way point of the season JC was the MVP of the league.

In the second half, Campbell struggled as did Portis, and it all related to the oline play drop off. In fact, the drop off in the run game is why Portis was so upset in the first place at the end of the season.

[shoogknight]

I know it would take more than just a straight up swap of QB's. But i would find a way to do this deal in a second if the Bronc wanted to.

Any one who does not hink we would be instanly better is smoking crack. Cutler is a prototypical west coast guy. Has just as good an Arm as Campbell. And is twice as mobile. Only concern is the diabetes thing.

Campbell will never be better than what he showed the first 8 games of 2008. And that is a game managing QB, that will not win games on his own, but not lose them either.

Cutler is much more dynamic. I love his ego and emotions. Wish Campbell had more of that.

[IndySkin]

. That's misdrection. Cutler was inserted as the starter on a Broncos team with a 3 game divsion lead and he managed to win only one game the rest of the year as they missed the playoffs. I could construct an argument suggesting that Campbell could've taken over that Broncos team and done better and it'd be just as empty.


That is not misdirection. The comment you made is when Cutler was a ROOKIE. In my eyes, when a quarterback is thrown to the wolves their rookie season, you can't expect too much. That is not a fair comparison.

[IndySkin]

I am confused by this comment. When the oline was good, during the first half of the season, Jason Campbell was an MVP candidate. In fact, Ron Jaworski, who knows a little something about QB's said, that at the half way point of the season JC was the MVP of the league.

In the second half, Campbell struggled as did Portis, and it all related to the oline play drop off. In fact, the drop off in the run game is why Portis was so upset in the first place at the end of the season.

I dont' remember anything about JC being considered a league MVP candidate. The only Redskin getting those accolades was Portis, which was well deserved. While Campbell played well (some of that has to do with Portis' performance), there is no way that he was being considered an MVP candidate. I also find it hard to believe that Jaws would say that. I respect Jaws, and I know he likes Campbell, but if Jaws said that, well, Jaws says some crazy things sometimes, and that was one of them.

[shally]

I dont' remember anything about JC being considered a league MVP candidate. The only Redskin getting those accolades was Portis, which was well deserved. While Campbell played well (some of that has to do with Portis' performance), there is no way that he was being considered an MVP candidate. I also find it hard to believe that Jaws would say that. I respect Jaws, and I know he likes Campbell, but if Jaws said that, well, Jaws says some crazy things sometimes, and that was one of them.

not true.. JC was the golden child through the first half of the season.

this is it for him this year.. with the addition of dockery and the, presumed addition of a RT in the draft, he has no more excuses. i dont buy the WR excuses. certainly, they wont be legitimate this year.. JC must take control of the offense and we need to score points

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I dont' remember anything about JC being considered a league MVP candidate. The only Redskin getting those accolades was Portis, which was well deserved. While Campbell played well (some of that has to do with Portis' performance), there is no way that he was being considered an MVP candidate. I also find it hard to believe that Jaws would say that. I respect Jaws, and I know he likes Campbell, but if Jaws said that, well, Jaws says some crazy things sometimes, and that was one of them.

Jaws said it on the Monday Night Football telecast against the Steelers. Jaws watches more film than anyone else on TV. I value his opinion.

Here is an SI article on the MVP race:
MVP
1. Clinton Portis, RB, Redskins (2): The NFL's rushing leader has run for at least 120 yards in five consecutive games, and has the surprising 'Skins in position to compete for the division crown.

2. Trent Edwards, QB, Bills (1): The Bills' star didn't play well against the Dolphins as his series of fourth-quarter miscues led to the team's second loss. Regardless, Edwards' stellar play during the first half of the season has the team tied for the division lead at the halfway mark.

3. Eli Manning, QB, Giants (5): The reigning Super Bowl MVP was outstanding down the stretch in leading the Giants to a come-from-behind win over the Steelers. Manning's solid play has the defending world champions sitting atop the NFC with the conference's best record (6-1).

4. Kurt Warner, QB, Cardinals (3): The 37-year-old veteran continues to enjoy one of the best seasons of his career. Although his 381-yard passing day didn't lead to a win over the Panthers, it gave Warner his third 300-yard passing game of the season and made him the league's second-ranked passer in yards.

5. Jason Campbell, QB, Redskins (NR): His ability to manage the game is one reasons the 'Skins have been so successful winning close games. Campbell has thrown 253 passes this season without an interception and only has one turnover on the season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/bucky_brooks/10/28/awards.watch/1.html


Comment???

[SkinsfaninNJ]

not true.. JC was the golden child through the first half of the season.

this is it for him this year.. with the addition of dockery and the, presumed addition of a RT in the draft, he has no more excuses. i dont buy the WR excuses. certainly, they wont be legitimate this year.. JC must take control of the offense and we need to score points

What do you mean the WR excuses? It was believed that our 2007 group of receivers was not good enough. So the FO spent 3 second round draft picks on pass catchers. Two of them hardly saw the field. The third could never unseat the two starters, who were the same two starters deemed to be inadequate the prior year. You don't see a problem with our wide receivers?

[Gravy]

...weird thought but doesn't Ramsey play for the Broncos...how wierd would it be for JC to be traded to the Bronocs (I don't believe this going to happen)...the Bronocs QB crop would now be the Disgruntled Redskins QB throwaways...hey why we are at it...why don't we trade our 13th pick for Matt Hassleback and trade Clinton Portis and next years 1st draft pick for Ricky Williams

[shally]

What do you mean the WR excuses? It was believed that our 2007 group of receivers was not good enough. So the FO spent 3 second round draft picks on pass catchers. Two of them hardly saw the field. The third could never unseat the two starters, who were the same two starters deemed to be inadequate the prior year. You don't see a problem with our wide receivers?

i think that there WERE problems with out receivers.. but it was made worse by a number of factors, including JC's reluctance to throw the ball
long, general indecision and hesistancy, and slow release.. blame falls on the entire coaching staff as well. it is simply inconceivable to me that they could not have found routes for the younger players to run-- especially since the defense knew exactly what we were running most of the second half of the season. and kelly was an apparent healthy scratch for many games the last 1/3 of the season.. why ?

but JC does not get a pass on his performance last year

[IndySkin]

Jaws said it on the Monday Night Football telecast against the Steelers. Jaws watches more film than anyone else on TV. I value his opinion.

Here is an SI article on the MVP race:
MVP
1. Clinton Portis, RB, Redskins (2): The NFL's rushing leader has run for at least 120 yards in five consecutive games, and has the surprising 'Skins in position to compete for the division crown.

2. Trent Edwards, QB, Bills (1): The Bills' star didn't play well against the Dolphins as his series of fourth-quarter miscues led to the team's second loss. Regardless, Edwards' stellar play during the first half of the season has the team tied for the division lead at the halfway mark.

3. Eli Manning, QB, Giants (5): The reigning Super Bowl MVP was outstanding down the stretch in leading the Giants to a come-from-behind win over the Steelers. Manning's solid play has the defending world champions sitting atop the NFC with the conference's best record (6-1).

4. Kurt Warner, QB, Cardinals (3): The 37-year-old veteran continues to enjoy one of the best seasons of his career. Although his 381-yard passing day didn't lead to a win over the Panthers, it gave Warner his third 300-yard passing game of the season and made him the league's second-ranked passer in yards.

5. Jason Campbell, QB, Redskins (NR): His ability to manage the game is one reasons the 'Skins have been so successful winning close games. Campbell has thrown 253 passes this season without an interception and only has one turnover on the season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/bucky_brooks/10/28/awards.watch/1.html


Comment???

Fair enough, but half of the time when these guys are writing about stuff like that, it's full of hot air.

Please look at the #2 candidate on that list. Seriously? It's freaking SI. They are about as bad as ESPN when it comes to hype. I don't buy too much into what the majority of sports writers say because all they are trying to do is stir up a mess anyways. Just because SI says that doesn't mean it's the gosple. How about sitting down and actually watching both players play and formulating an opinion about their performance.

Campbell had a great start to the season, as far as not turning over the ball. That was their only basis. He wasn't doing anything else electrifying. The passing game during the first potion of the season was every bit as boring and unconviincing as the later half of the season. He certainly wasn't commanding the offense like Cutler was doing in Denver. Campbell was a pawn of the system, where Cutler was the clear leader of his squad. That is what makes the two of them different.

[Moe]

That is not misdirection. The comment you made is when Cutler was a ROOKIE. In my eyes, when a quarterback is thrown to the wolves their rookie season, you can't expect too much. That is not a fair comparison.

My point was that it's just as easy to say that Campbell could've stepped into that same situation, even as a rookie, and done better. I can no more prove that than you can that Cutler would've changed anything in DC.

I get your overall point, and while I don't like Cutler for various reasons, if I was picking teams and it came down to he and Campbell, he'd be my choice. I simply don't buy some of your reasoning that he could step in and automatically this team is a contender sight unseen. I think there's more to it than that.

[shally]

Fair enough, but half of the time when these guys are writing about stuff like that, it's full of hot air.

Please look at the #2 candidate on that list. Seriously? It's freaking SI. They are about as bad as ESPN when it comes to hype. I don't buy too much into what the majority of sports writers say because all they are trying to do is stir up a mess anyways. Just because SI says that doesn't mean it's the gosple. How about sitting down and actually watching both players play and formulating an opinion about their performance.

Campbell had a great start to the season, as far as not turning over the ball. That was their only basis. He wasn't doing anything else electrifying. The passing game during the first potion of the season was every bit as boring and unconviincing as the later half of the season. He certainly wasn't commanding the offense like Cutler was doing in Denver. Campbell was a pawn of the system, where Cutler was the clear leader of his squad. That is what makes the two of them different.

not true. at 6-1, JC was doing plenty right.. after that, not so much

[Fathead]

Cutler blew a 3 game lead with 3 to play in his division. I'm forced to watch the donkeys on tv, and I want nothing to do with Cutler. He folds deep in games all the time.

[csquared]

Cutler blew a 3 game lead with 3 to play in his division. I'm forced to watch the donkeys on tv, and I want nothing to do with Cutler. He folds deep in games all the time.

And Campbell folded at 6-2 whats your point?

[Fathead]

So why in the world would we trade a known commodity for the same guy?

[shally]

Cutler blew a 3 game lead with 3 to play in his division. I'm forced to watch the donkeys on tv, and I want nothing to do with Cutler. He folds deep in games all the time.

i didnt see many of the donkey's games.. the donkeys had no running attack. their defense suffered through an injury to champ and bly's detriorating play. the defense was based upon reject linemen for a long time.
how much of it was really on cutler, and how much symptomatic of
system wide rot ? just as our el foldo was more than just campbell
deteriorating, i am inclined to think it was more than cutler.. what do you think ?

[csquared]

So why in the world would we trade a known commodity for the same guy?

Because Denver was on what their 5th and 6th running backs? Who is going to be scared of PJ Pope or Tatum Bell(who a few weeks earlier was selling phones)? So no need to stack the box. Plus if you look at Cutlers stats in the last 3 games its easy to see that Denver's horrible defense is who lost those games.

[shally]

So why in the world would we trade a known commodity for the same guy?


sonny for snead... 2 struggling qb's.. one really no good, and the other just in a bad situation...????????????????

[Fathead]

Cutler is no better than Campbell. Sticking Cutler into Zorn's system is going to erase any progress that was possibly made in the QB department and is essentially a start over.


We either need to draft a new QB or get a vet with WCO experience. Trading for a young guy with no experience in this offense is going to be a repeat of 2008.

[Moe]

Cutler is no better than Campbell. Sticking Cutler into Zorn's system is going to erase any progress that was possibly made in the QB department and is essentially a start over.


We either need to draft a new QB or get a vet with WCO experience. Trading for a young guy with no experience in this offense is going to be a repeat of 2008.

I agree. Maybe he can throw a faster ball to the spot where his WR isn't, but I'm not sure how that helps the team.

[shally]

Cutler is no better than Campbell. Sticking Cutler into Zorn's system is going to erase any progress that was possibly made in the QB department and is essentially a start over.


We either need to draft a new QB or get a vet with WCO experience. Trading for a young guy with no experience in this offense is going to be a repeat of 2008.

problem is zorn or his system... any system that takes a full 3 years to grow comfortable in, is BS and overly complicated.. by the time a qb has spent the time it even takes to know if he is right for the system, it is too late..
not when you see qb's like ryan and flacco and big ben having success early on.. or someone like brees changing teams and having immediate success in a different system

[joethefan]

If our offensive line was so bad, then how does Portis rush for the yards he did last year? Please do not give me the "pass protection was worse than the run protection" speech.



i would love to see you trying to pass the ball with janson being pushed into your back or side

i don't understand what games you were watching.....randy thomas often spoke about how the line loved to run block...but didnt care about pass blocking....that may just be a lineman thing...but the fact of the matter is to be an effective olineman you must be able to do both.....

you go back and look at the oline during the second half of the season...and count how many times jason was not only sacked but hit.....quite a few....

[RedskinRyan]

actually, ramsey is unemployed right now.. he WAS the backup but was not re-signed

he went to houston and got a look but they signed Orlovsky to a 9 mil/ 3 year contract instead of Ram.. he will likely find work again in 2009, but he looks to be about out of options pretty soon

Another three years and Minnesota will want him.

[Fathead]

problem is zorn or his system... any system that takes a full 3 years to grow comfortable in, is BS and overly complicated.. by the time a qb has spent the time it even takes to know if he is right for the system, it is too late..
not when you see qb's like ryan and flacco and big ben having success early on.. or someone like brees changing teams and having immediate success in a different system

Well, we are obviously not getting rid of Zorn this year, so we either need a vet that knows the WCO or we might as well stay the course.



Or just blow everything up and start over. Doing that with AH seems kind of dumb though.

[CNYSkinFan]

at this point it makes no sense to do anything with campbell. he is the starter and has one year on his contract. If he goes lights out you lock him down after th season, if not let the new coach, and there will be one w/o a playoff spot, pick his next qb of the future.

[Fathead]

at this point it makes no sense to do anything with campbell. he is the starter and has one year on his contract. If he goes lights out you lock him down after th season, if not let the new coach, and there will be one w/o a playoff spot, pick his next qb of the future.

Pretty much. Unless we could get a WCO vet on the cheap for a year. But that necessitates giving up on Campbell.

[shally]

Well, we are obviously not getting rid of Zorn this year, so we either need a vet that knows the WCO or we might as well stay the course.



Or just blow everything up and start over. Doing that with AH seems kind of dumb though.


the defense just needs a few more parts. no reason to blow it up

the offense will live or die with campbell this year. he will determine his long term tenure with the redskins this year. the front office has shown it is willing to help re tool the o line and will continue to do that this off season.
after that it is all on JC

i would totally agree with acquiring a WCO qb , even as a backup

[shally]

at this point it makes no sense to do anything with campbell. he is the starter and has one year on his contract. If he goes lights out you lock him down after th season, if not let the new coach, and there will be one w/o a playoff spot, pick his next qb of the future.

totally agree

[Jon Creveling]

i would love to see you trying to pass the ball with janson being pushed into your back or side

i don't understand what games you were watching.....randy thomas often spoke about how the line loved to run block...but didnt care about pass blocking....that may just be a lineman thing...but the fact of the matter is to be an effective olineman you must be able to do both.....

Nothing against INDY and no intent to back up Joe but are some of you guys not familiar with "THE JANSEN"?

You know the mental picture of both arms straight up as in surrender, followed by his shoulder pads blown up to ear level, with his gut hanging out as the d.e. blows by him with such speed his hair gets pulled along with the propeller wash?:)

Joe, little surprise about Randy, never any push and judging by last year Pete got his hands dirty in 2nd level blocking much more than Thomas in a long long time, he still is v.good in pass-pro which makes his comments kinda backwards.

Or how's about our no push center and the 'M-shaped' pocket he likes to form?

What about Heyer? Good on the pass, but against the run he probably couldn't get my 5'8" 190lb ass off the point if he had to:) I AM KIDDING GUYS!

Back to topic, I like Jason but at some point I want him to show us something up and above any chaos going on around him! Some Flair or something, I'll give him to game 8 to prove to us once and for all that he can lead this team, after that with no/little results I'll be calling for his head!

[mr shadow 008]

okay seriously alot of campbells problems rest on the line and the receivers how many times did a ball than campbell throw that hit a receiver in the hands and they drop them now i played four years of high school football ( now i know its not the same) but all four years i played the coaches all preached the same thing to the receivers and that is IF THE BALL HITS YOUR HANDS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CATCH IT!!!!! and these are nfl receivers if hits their hands they are supposed to catch it!

[csquared]

okay seriously alot of campbells problems rest on the line and the receivers how many times did a ball than campbell throw that hit a receiver in the hands and they drop them now i played four years of high school football ( now i know its not the same) but all four years i played the coaches all preached the same thing to the receivers and that is IF THE BALL HITS YOUR HANDS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CATCH IT!!!!! and these are nfl receivers if hits their hands they are supposed to catch it!

Excuses excuses. Campbell also missed a lot of open receivers. And Campbell threw terrible deep balls. Also if he made quicker decisions or knew how to read a defense he wouldn't have been running for his life.

[Fathead]

lol Campbell isn't Montana or anything but to totally discount how horrible our recievers and oline were is ridiculous.

[shally]

lol Campbell isn't Montana or anything but to totally discount how horrible our recievers and oline were is ridiculous.

he getshis chance for redemption this year

[joethefan]

And Campbell folded at 6-2 whats your point?

tell me how how he folded under at 6-2?.....

maybe you watch only the QB and don't watch the entire field which I hope ypu pay mopre attention to the the latter of the two. Any Qb would have issues with that oline after the second half of that season...CS got hurt and remember the defenses we were going up against...good run stopping defenses...Pitt, Dallas NY and Balt?...cmon dude..

oh and were you complaining about him running for his life when we were 6-2 with 0 interceptions?...probably not....

[smoak]

tell me how how he folded under at 6-2?.....

maybe you watch only the QB and don't watch the entire field which I hope ypu pay mopre attention to the the latter of the two. Any Qb would have issues with that oline after the second half of that season...CS got hurt and remember the defenses we were going up against...good run stopping defenses...Pitt, Dallas NY and Balt?...cmon dude..

oh and were you complaining about him running for his life when we were 6-2 with 0 interceptions?...probably not....

+1

In response to the original question, NO! I want to see where JC does or doesn't take this team next year and then we can talk.

[Patrick]

Why is this thread still alive. JC AIN'T going nowhere and Culter AIN'T coming here!!! .................. Geeezzz - Give it a rest!

[firehawk157]

Why is this thread still alive. JC AIN'T going nowhere and Culter AIN'T coming here!!! .................. Geeezzz - Give it a rest!
Good point... We should discuss the Albert Haynesworth signing another 400 times instead.

[AliBabba]

Good point... We should discuss the Albert Haynesworth signing another 400 times instead.
lol, i think the point is that the Broncos said they absolutely won't trade Cutler now

[SkinsfaninNJ]

lol, i think the point is that the Broncos said they absolutely won't trade Cutler now

Yeah, but as PFT points out, there could be many reasons for the donkeys to say that including re-establishing Cutler's trade value so that it doesn't seem like the team has no leverage.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

The one positive if the trade ever happened, is I would still get to refer to our QB as JC.

[csquared]

tell me how how he folded under at 6-2?.....

maybe you watch only the QB and don't watch the entire field which I hope ypu pay mopre attention to the the latter of the two. Any Qb would have issues with that oline after the second half of that season...CS got hurt and remember the defenses we were going up against...good run stopping defenses...Pitt, Dallas NY and Balt?...cmon dude..

oh and were you complaining about him running for his life when we were 6-2 with 0 interceptions?...probably not....

He folded as much at 6-2 as Cutler gave away the last 3 games as a previous poster said. It wasn't entirely either of the QB's fault. Each one did have a hand in the failure but neither one was the only guy to blame. And to answer your question i don't like Campbell and never have. So yes i was still complaining at 6-2. He is the black Patrick Ramsey. An average QB with a big arm. A QB that people will be talking about for a few years giving excuses as to why he didn't succeed. Im just not sure why we have given him a longer leash than we did Ramsey.

[akhhorus]

Good point... We should discuss the Albert Haynesworth signing another 400 times instead.

Can I post the Vinny's fake email picture another 7 times?

[csquared]

Can I post the Vinny's fake email picture another 7 times?

Just make sure you warn about the language lol.

[Fathead]

He folded as much at 6-2 as Cutler gave away the last 3 games as a previous poster said. It wasn't entirely either of the QB's fault. Each one did have a hand in the failure but neither one was the only guy to blame. And to answer your question i don't like Campbell and never have. So yes i was still complaining at 6-2. He is the black Patrick Ramsey. An average QB with a big arm. A QB that people will be talking about for a few years giving excuses as to why he didn't succeed. Im just not sure why we have given him a longer leash than we did Ramsey.

And Cutler is better how? He led his team to the same record as we had, and he did it in (arguably) the weakest division in the league.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

And Cutler is better how? He led his team to the same record as we had, and he did it in (arguably) the weakest division in the league.
Could the fact that the Broncos had the 29th ranked defense have had something to do with that 8-8 record?

[csquared]

And Cutler is better how? He led his team to the same record as we had, and he did it in (arguably) the weakest division in the league.
He had an average o-line, Top 10 TE, and was working with 6th and 7th string RB's. So of course they wont be stacking the box. Campbell had a below average line, Top 5 TE, and a Top 5 RB. Teams were stacking the box to stop Portis and Campbell still wasn't getting it done. At this point i see more upside in Cutler.

[csquared]

Could the fact that the Broncos had the 29th ranked defense have had something to do with that 8-8 record?

Bingo

[Fathead]

That isn't much to go on in thinking Cutler is any better solution than Campbell.

[akhhorus]

He had an average o-line, Top 10 TE, and was working with 6th and 7th string RB's. So of course they wont be stacking the box. Campbell had a below average line, Top 5 TE, and a Top 5 RB. Teams were stacking the box to stop Portis and Campbell still wasn't getting it done. At this point i see more upside in Cutler.

It also helps when you have 2 very good WRs that the Qb trusts. That clearly isn't the case in DC, whether you want to call it an excuse or not.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

That isn't much to go on in thinking Cutler is any better solution than Campbell.

I don't think you'd find very many (probably none) NFL personnel people who wouldn't take Cutler over Campbell.

Except for some Skins fans. :)

[csquared]

It also helps when you have 2 very good WRs that the Qb trusts. That clearly isn't the case in DC, whether you want to call it an excuse or not.

So are you telling me Campbell would rather hold the ball and get sacked than to throw it?

[Fathead]

I don't think you'd find very many (probably none) NFL personnel people who wouldn't take Cutler over Campbell.

Except for some Skins fans. :)

I've had to watch Cutler since the donkeys are always on tv here, and I'm no more sold on him than Campbell. To me, switching our QB for anyone who isn't a WCO vet is a silly move, Unless you are admitting that the team is hopeless as made and we are starting over entirely.

[csquared]

I've had to watch Cutler since the donkeys are always on tv here, and I'm no more sold on him than Campbell. To me, switching our QB for anyone who isn't a WCO vet is a silly move, Unless you are admitting that the team is hopeless as made and we are starting over entirely.

Thats what i think we should do.. At least we would have an excuse for being terrible for a few years.

[Fathead]

I don't think that's what this team is going to do now, and we could do a lot better than Cutler if we were going to blow things up.

[akhhorus]

So are you telling me Campbell would rather hold the ball and get sacked than to throw it?

I think Campbell's biggest problem, and I've said this for a long time, is that he has zero confidence in his WRs. And why should he? Moss and ARE have terrible hands and run lazy routes. We can criticize Campbell's arm/accuracy/touch until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that his starting WRs have hands of stone.

[csquared]

I think Campbell's biggest problem, and I've said this for a long time, is that he has zero confidence in his WRs. And why should he? Moss and ARE have terrible hands and run lazy routes. We can criticize Campbell's arm/accuracy/touch until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that his starting WRs have hands of stone.

Oh i agree 100% about everything you said but that didn't answer my question. It still falls on him. He should be putting the ball where its supposed to be and let the coaches worry about who is not catching it. Instead he is holding the ball too long and causing himself problems.

[akhhorus]

Oh i agree 100% about everything you said but that didn't answer my question. It still falls on him. He should be putting the ball where its supposed to be and let the coaches worry about who is not catching it. Instead he is holding the ball too long and causing himself problems.

If you can, watch his eyes. Campbell looks down the field a lot-which is what he's supposed to do. Whether he holds on to the ball too long could be chicken/egg: is he holding on too long because he doesn't trust his WRs(or his Oline is pathetic, which is was towards the end) or is it because he's physically holding on to the ball too long? Whats wrong with Campbell is an enigma, but considering what we see from the WRs, I think he deserves a shot without ARE/Moss as his starters.

[BurgundyNGold]

If you can, watch his eyes. Campbell looks down the field a lot-which is what he's supposed to do. Whether he holds on to the ball too long could be chicken/egg: is he holding on too long because he doesn't trust his WRs(or his Oline is pathetic, which is was towards the end) or is it because he's physically holding on to the ball too long? Whats wrong with Campbell is an enigma, but considering what we see from the WRs, I think he deserves a shot without ARE/Moss as his starters.
So, as I understand it, you're taking the approach that a franchise QB is too rare to give up on without eliminating all of the other variables. Give him WR that are made for the system and give him an OL to play behind that won't get him killed. If he still can't do it, then 86 him. Sound about right?

[Chief Redskin]

I don't think you'd find very many (probably none) NFL personnel people who wouldn't take Cutler over Campbell.

Except for some Skins fans. :)

That's exactly right. Only a Redskins fan would take Campbell over Cutler. You guys are delusional for thinking Campbell is any where close to Cutler in terms of play on the field. Cutler is a gun-slinger and Campbell is gun-shy.

Campbell doesn't scare anybody in the league. He will never have a 25 passing TD season along with more than 4,500 passing yards the way Cutler did.

Cutler gets better year after year as most good QB's do. Campbell's improvement is barely noticeable (not as many fumbles). That's great, but when is the last time a great quarterback started an entire season and only threw 13 TD's???

[Fathead]

That's exactly right. Only a Redskins fan would take Campbell over Cutler. You guys are delusional for thinking Campbell is any where close to Cutler in terms of play on the field. Cutler is a gun-slinger and Campbell is gun-shy.

Campbell doesn't scare anybody in the league. He will never have a 25 passing TD season along with more than 4,500 passing yards the way Cutler did.

Cutler gets better year after year as most good QB's do. Campbell's improvement is barely noticeable (not as many fumbles). That's great, but when is the last time a great quarterback started an entire season and only threw 13 TD's???

Cutler did not get "better" last year. He threw almost 150 more passes in 08 as opposed to 07 and threw 5 more tds to 7 more INTs.

[Moe]

I think Campbell's biggest problem, and I've said this for a long time, is that he has zero confidence in his WRs. And why should he? Moss and ARE have terrible hands and run lazy routes. We can criticize Campbell's arm/accuracy/touch until the cows come home, but it doesn't change the fact that his starting WRs have hands of stone.

As the year progressed, Campbell was more and more demonstrative when his receivers dropped balls. It was happening all year but you saw more obvious frustration from him later on.

[Chief Redskin]

Cutler did not get "better" last year. He threw almost 150 more passes in 08 as opposed to 07 and threw 5 more tds to 7 more INTs.

Polish up on your math....Cutler threw for nearly 100 more completions, more than 1,000 extra passing yards, and five extra TD's and only 4 additional Ints.

If that doesn't constitute a significant improvement in play...I don't know what does.

[akhhorus]

So, as I understand it, you're taking the approach that a franchise QB is too rare to give up on without eliminating all of the other variables. Give him WR that are made for the system and give him an OL to play behind that won't get him killed. If he still can't do it, then 86 him. Sound about right?

We saw what Campbell could look like when the Oline didn't kill him and his WRs gave a crap. So, this isn't a hypothetical. He's a system QB, but a high upside system QB.

[shally]

That's exactly right. Only a Redskins fan would take Campbell over Cutler. You guys are delusional for thinking Campbell is any where close to Cutler in terms of play on the field. Cutler is a gun-slinger and Campbell is gun-shy.

Campbell doesn't scare anybody in the league. He will never have a 25 passing TD season along with more than 4,500 passing yards the way Cutler did.

Cutler gets better year after year as most good QB's do. Campbell's improvement is barely noticeable (not as many fumbles). That's great, but when is the last time a great quarterback started an entire season and only threw 13 TD's???


agree.. but it wont be happening this, or any year, in all liklihood

[firehawk157]

We saw what Campbell could look like when the Oline didn't kill him and his WRs gave a crap. So, this isn't a hypothetical. He's a system QB, but a high upside system QB.
It wasn't like he was lighting up the world during the first part of 2008 either. He was posting decent stats and the team was driven by a league leading runner and a decent defense. If he was on pace for a 30 TD and 4000 yards, I'd agree, but he wasn't.

[akhhorus]

It wasn't like he was lighting up the world during the first part of 2008 either. He was posting decent stats and the team was driven by a league leading runner and a decent defense. If he was on pace for a 30 TD and 4000 yards, I'd agree, but he wasn't.

He was on pace for 3500 yards 16 tds/0 Ints/32 sacks in the first half of the season. That would have put him ahead of Favre, Romo, Big Ben and Matt Ryan in yardage.

[Fathead]

Sorry, I got the columns mixed up at the stats I was looking at.


He still got to throw the ball 150 more times and esentially evened out at TDs/Ints. His team improved by a game. He looked good against Cleveland, and his other big game was against the Chargers who couldn't stop anybody, and his team shouldn't even have won that game (since he fumbled).


I'm sorry, he hasn't shown much more than Campbell, and to insert him into a WCO is throwing the season away.

[BurgundyNGold]

Sorry, I got the columns mixed up at the stats I was looking at.


He still got to throw the ball 150 more times and esentially evened out at TDs/Ints. His team improved by a game. He looked good against Cleveland, and his other big game was against the Chargers who couldn't stop anybody, and his team shouldn't even have won that game (since he fumbled).


I'm sorry, he hasn't shown much more than Campbell, and to insert him into a WCO is throwing the season away.
Shanny ran a run heavy WCO.

[akhhorus]

Shanny ran a run heavy WCO.

Bates, the OC there, ran a norv hybrid: heavy running with deep passing.

[BurgundyNGold]

Bates, the OC there, ran a norv hybrid: heavy running with deep passing.
Jim Bates? I think he was the DC.

[akhhorus]

Jim Bates? I think he was the DC.

Jeremy Bates. He bolted for USC after McDaniels came on board. He'll be a head coach before long.

[AliBabba]

Jeremy Bates. He bolted for USC after McDaniels came on board. He'll be a head coach before long.
Kinda, sorta .... Bates called the plays but Rick Dennison was the coordinator

[BurgundyNGold]

Jeremy Bates. He bolted for USC after McDaniels came on board. He'll be a head coach before long.
I know, I just found a chance to poke at you because they had an OC and a DC both named Bates, lol.

Seriuously, though, Jeremy Bates is a WCO guy. He came up through Tampa under Gruden (WCO) and went to the Jets under Herm Edwards whos OC ran a WCO. He then went to Denver, who ran the Gibbs/Kubiak WCO and is now under Pete Carroll who runs a variation of a WCO at USC.

Granted, the Denver WCO might not even be able to be called a WCO, but that's its lineage.

[akhhorus]

I know, I just found a chance to poke at you because they had an OC and a DC both named Bates, lol.

Seriuously, though, Jeremy Bates is a WCO guy. He came up through Tampa under Gruden (WCO) and went to the Jets under Herm Edwards whos OC ran a WCO. He then went to Denver, who ran the Gibbs/Kubiak WCO and is now under Pete Carroll who runs a variation of a WCO at USC.

Granted, the Denver WCO might not even be able to be called a WCO, but that's its lineage.

The Kubiak WCO is basically a diff. branch of the WCO tree than Gruden. Bates came in and ran a Norv variant(deeper passing, more OT runs), so I don't know how much influence Gruden had on him.

In any event, its a MUCH different WCO offense than Zorn/Sherm Smith's one.

[AliBabba]

The Kubiak WCO is basically a diff. branch of the WCO tree than Gruden. Bates came in and ran a Norv variant(deeper passing, more OT runs), so I don't know how much influence Gruden had on him.

In any event, its a MUCH different WCO offense than Zorn/Sherm Smith's one.
agreed ... at this point Campbell's way more up-to-speed and it'd be another lost year having a guy learn the system

Cutler's major system advantage is not in terms of knowledge but the quick release and less exagerated windup/throwing motion

[BurgundyNGold]

The Kubiak WCO is basically a diff. branch of the WCO tree than Gruden. Bates came in and ran a Norv variant(deeper passing, more OT runs), so I don't know how much influence Gruden had on him.

In any event, its a MUCH different WCO offense than Zorn/Sherm Smith's one.
They would have been better off just hiring Norm Chow instead of Zorn, IMO.

[akhhorus]

They would have been better off just hiring Norm Chow instead of Zorn, IMO.

They would have been better off hiring Jeremy Bates to run the offense this year and anyone who's watched the NFL in the last 2 years to run the defense lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

They would have been better off hiring Jeremy Bates to run the offense this year and anyone who's watched the NFL in the last 2 years to run the defense lol.
Sad because it's true, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

agreed ... at this point Campbell's way more up-to-speed and it'd be another lost year having a guy learn the system

Cutler's major system advantage is not in terms of knowledge but the quick release and less exagerated windup/throwing motion
Cutler is learning a new system anyway...

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11576892

[shally]

They would have been better off just hiring Norm Chow instead of Zorn, IMO.

wasnt chow let go from his last NFL gig ? titans ??

[shally]

Cutler is learning a new system anyway...

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11576892

for now, anyway...

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

It might not mean anything but......

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/18926235/detail.html#

Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler has put his house near Castle Pines up for sale

[paulskinsfan]

Im actually starting to believe that JC for Cutler is a possiblity. I do think our idiot owner and GM would throw in the 1st rounder too though. Im not saying I want this to happen, but JC's biggest problem, by far, is that you can make a sandwhich in the time it takes him to release the ball. The dude may as well be winding up like Nolan Ryan, its like watching Lerch off the munsters, slow as hell. Cutler would give Zorn a great arm along with a quick release, and lessen the need to revamp that O-line anymore. Im not a fan of this move if it happens, but I can definitely see it as a possibility.

[GloryHog]

Im actually starting to believe that JC for Cutler is a possiblity. I do think our idiot owner and GM would throw in the 1st rounder too though. Im not saying I want this to happen, but JC's biggest problem, by far, is that you can make a sandwhich in the time it takes him to release the ball. The dude may as well be winding up like Nolan Ryan, its like watching Lerch off the munsters, slow as hell. Cutler would give Zorn a great arm along with a quick release, and lessen the need to revamp that O-line anymore. Im not a fan of this move if it happens, but I can definitely see it as a possibility.


Not to be a rube about this, but can anyone explain to me why Denver would even want JC, i.e., how would he be more valuable (or even equal) in their system than Cutler?

[Skins-fo-life]

I wouldn't be against this but it probably won't happen. Denver would have to have a new deal in place for JC to make it work. I don't think they would wanna rent him for one year then have him leave town if there does happen to be a cap. Denver would rape us in every way if they got this deal. It would probably be Cutler for JC, this years 1st, and next years 1st. It's just never gonna happen anyways in all reality.

[paulskinsfan]

Not to be a rube about this, but can anyone explain to me why Denver would even want JC, i.e., how would he be more valuable (or even equal) in their system than Cutler?

The only way this happens is if Denver effectively burned its bridges with Cutler. As PFT says, its one thing to dangle him as trade bait and entertain offers, its entirely another thing to try and kiss and make up during a freaking conference call on speaker phone. If Denver thinks its enering the season with a pissed off QB who is going to cause the new coach problems, then I would think JC and a 1st is at least worth thinking about.

[wide_awake]

If they officially put Cutler on the trading block there is going to be some SERIOUS interest that will most likely drive the costs above fair value..

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Jason Campbell's 2009 salary:$2.858

Jay Cutler's 2009 salary: $1.035 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus)

[IndySkin]

That's exactly right. Only a Redskins fan would take Campbell over Cutler. You guys are delusional for thinking Campbell is any where close to Cutler in terms of play on the field. Cutler is a gun-slinger and Campbell is gun-shy.

Campbell doesn't scare anybody in the league. He will never have a 25 passing TD season along with more than 4,500 passing yards the way Cutler did.

Cutler gets better year after year as most good QB's do. Campbell's improvement is barely noticeable (not as many fumbles). That's great, but when is the last time a great quarterback started an entire season and only threw 13 TD's???

Amen! I couldn't agree with you more.

Bottom line, Cutler has way more upside than Campbell.

[IndySkin]

And Cutler is better how? He led his team to the same record as we had, and he did it in (arguably) the weakest division in the league.

Do you watch football? Or do you just look at stats. Cutler is a BETTER QB than Campbell. Period. He has better pose in the pocket and a lot better ability to make the quick decision when needed.

Basically you are saying that Campbell is equally as talented as Jay Cutler. Really?

What about Jay Cutler's receivers? Brandon Marshall has superstar potential, but I highly doubt he'll still be in the league in a couple of years. Marshall is more or less a down field threat anyways. Eddie Royal was a ROOKIE last year (one of the best rookie receivers in the league, IMO). He was his number two target. Stokley, cmon. He was nothing more than a product of the Colts system (don't get me started about that), what did he do? Scheffler at TE. He was hurt half of the season and is about as slow as molasses. And I think that was all know about the running back situation. I mean when a team has to bring up their backs from the practice squad to start, then there is a problem.

Cutler really didn't have anything last year where Campbell had a lot more going for him. And where to did Cutler end up? Pro Bowl. Where did Campbell end up? We know that one.

Bottom line, there is an obvious talent difference between the two kids, and Cutler has more of it. Everyone can make excuses for Campbell, but he just doesn't have the same tangibles as Cutler. At least Cutler has the ability to be able to get out of the pocket and still create a play when it's botched. Watch the tape!!!! Its all there.

[IndySkin]

i would love to see you trying to pass the ball with janson being pushed into your back or side

i don't understand what games you were watching.....randy thomas often spoke about how the line loved to run block...but didnt care about pass blocking....that may just be a lineman thing...but the fact of the matter is to be an effective olineman you must be able to do both.....

you go back and look at the oline during the second half of the season...and count how many times jason was not only sacked but hit.....quite a few....

Anyone who busts on Jon Jansen is foolish! Jon Jansen has been a pillar of this franchise for a long time. Oh did we forget he ruptured his Achilles tendon? I figured his career was done after that, but he fought to come back. Was he a horrible player before that, NO! Jon Jansen was regarded as one of the more complete tackles in the NFL. I will sympathize for a great player trying to come back from serious injuries because that shows heart, and it breaks my heart to not see him back to his old self.

Jon Jansen has done way more for the Redskins through play and leadership than what Jason Campbell will ever provide. Maybe he can't play like he did, but obviously he is good enough for a roster spot.

Here's a good question, why doesn't anyone make excuses for Jon Jansen? Or did we forget what he meant to this team.

Not a valid response, IMO Joe. You can't throw Jansen under the bus. He's done his time for this franchise and in my eyes has been one of the classiest Redskins over the past 10+ years.

[The Iceman]

Anyone who busts on Jon Jansen is foolish! Jon Jansen has been a pillar of this franchise for a long time. Oh did we forget he ruptured his Achilles tendon? I figured his career was done after that, but he fought to come back. Was he a horrible player before that, NO! Jon Jansen was regarded as one of the more complete tackles in the NFL. I will sympathize for a great player trying to come back from serious injuries because that shows heart, and it breaks my heart to not see him back to his old self.

Jon Jansen has done way more for the Redskins through play and leadership than what Jason Campbell will ever provide. Maybe he can't play like he did, but obviously he is good enough for a roster spot.

Here's a good question, why doesn't anyone make excuses for Jon Jansen? Or did we forget what he meant to this team.

Not a valid response, IMO Joe. You can't throw Jansen under the bus. He's done his time for this franchise and in my eyes has been one of the classiest Redskins over the past 10+ years.

Wow, I really thought about this post and I completely agree. Well put!

[ClubSandwichGuy]

Do you watch football? Or do you just look at stats. Cutler is a BETTER QB than Campbell. Period. He has better pose in the pocket and a lot better ability to make the quick decision when needed.

Basically you are saying that Campbell is equally as talented as Jay Cutler. Really?

What about Jay Cutler's receivers? Brandon Marshall has superstar potential, but I highly doubt he'll still be in the league in a couple of years. Marshall is more or less a down field threat anyways. Eddie Royal was a ROOKIE last year (one of the best rookie receivers in the league, IMO). He was his number two target. Stokley, cmon. He was nothing more than a product of the Colts system (don't get me started about that), what did he do? Scheffler at TE. He was hurt half of the season and is about as slow as molasses. And I think that was all know about the running back situation. I mean when a team has to bring up their backs from the practice squad to start, then there is a problem.

Cutler really didn't have anything last year where Campbell had a lot more going for him. And where to did Cutler end up? Pro Bowl. Where did Campbell end up? We know that one.

Bottom line, there is an obvious talent difference between the two kids, and Cutler has more of it. Everyone can make excuses for Campbell, but he just doesn't have the same tangibles as Cutler. At least Cutler has the ability to be able to get out of the pocket and still create a play when it's botched. Watch the tape!!!! Its all there.
Are you kidding me? Campbell had more going for him than Cutler? Cutler has one of the best receiving cores in the league and a pretty good (not great) offensive line. Campbell has one of the worst receiving cores in the league and the oldest offensive line in the league. Plus he is in a brand new offense for about the thousandth time in a row.

And what's the biggest problem with Cutler? Besides the fact that this kid is a big cry baby, he doesn't even know who to throw it to. If Brett Favre had retired like he was supposed to, Cutler would have led the league in interceptions with 18. Meanwhile we have Jason Campbell who had just 6. I don't know if you have figured this out yet or not, but our defense was not exactly great at forcing turnovers, and we didn't have the receivers needed for some of those last-second comebacks that Cutler pulled last season.

If we had Cutler, we would have had about 6 wins last year. He is a vastly overrated QB. Terrible at decision making, too confident in his arm, cries like a big baby...

Now, I am not saying Campbell is better as it is still too early to tell, but I would rather a quarterback just get sacked than throw interceptions.


If you want a fantasy football quraterback, Cutler is your man, but I would take Campbell any day in a real football situation.


Good day to you, sir.

[CNYSkinFan]

Wow, I really thought about this post and I completely agree. Well put!
http://www.xeye.org/1995-2000/Pictures/Lemmings/lemming.jpg

[Death_Venom]

In regards to the Boldin situation Iwould definetly package ARE & MOSS plus next years 2nd rounder for BOLDIN-without hesitation.

By the way it is nice to see that people are back to griping about Campbell again.....LOL

[shally]

In regards to the Boldin situation Iwould definetly package ARE & MOSS plus next years 2nd rounder for BOLDIN-without hesitation.

By the way it is nice to see that people are back to griping about Campbell again.....LOL

+1


and JC is truly the focus of the offense.. as he goes, so will this coming season. that is why people gripe

[Fathead]

Do you watch football? Or do you just look at stats. Cutler is a BETTER QB than Campbell. Period. He has better pose in the pocket and a lot better ability to make the quick decision when needed.

Basically you are saying that Campbell is equally as talented as Jay Cutler. Really?

What about Jay Cutler's receivers? Brandon Marshall has superstar potential, but I highly doubt he'll still be in the league in a couple of years. Marshall is more or less a down field threat anyways. Eddie Royal was a ROOKIE last year (one of the best rookie receivers in the league, IMO). He was his number two target. Stokley, cmon. He was nothing more than a product of the Colts system (don't get me started about that), what did he do? Scheffler at TE. He was hurt half of the season and is about as slow as molasses. And I think that was all know about the running back situation. I mean when a team has to bring up their backs from the practice squad to start, then there is a problem.

Cutler really didn't have anything last year where Campbell had a lot more going for him. And where to did Cutler end up? Pro Bowl. Where did Campbell end up? We know that one.

Bottom line, there is an obvious talent difference between the two kids, and Cutler has more of it. Everyone can make excuses for Campbell, but he just doesn't have the same tangibles as Cutler. At least Cutler has the ability to be able to get out of the pocket and still create a play when it's botched. Watch the tape!!!! Its all there.


I venture to guess that I watched more of Cutler than you did. And I'm telling you that Cutler is not that great. Plus he's a headcase.

Also, what talent did Campbell have? The drop brigade. Cooley was the most consistent target he had. The comparison is worthless.

[csquared]

In regards to the Boldin situation Iwould definetly package ARE & MOSS plus next years 2nd rounder for BOLDIN-without hesitation.

By the way it is nice to see that people are back to griping about Campbell again.....LOL

Come on now! People need to be serious. Why the hell would the Cardinals trade Boldin for 2 garbage receivers and a 2nd rounder?

[shally]

Come on now! People need to be serious. Why the hell would the Cardinals trade Boldin for 2 garbage receivers and a 2nd rounder?

agree

if we are serious, could send them 2010's first rounder..

then again, with breaston and fitz, moss would draw a ton of single coverage.. give them Moss and the #2 in 2010...

[csquared]

agree

if we are serious, could send them 2010's first rounder..

then again, with breaston and fitz, moss would draw a ton of single coverage.. give them Moss and the #2 in 2010...

Boldin wont be had for anything less than 1 1st round pick.

[shally]

Boldin wont be had for anything less than 1 1st round pick.

that's what philly thought about sheppard

wait them out...

[AliBabba]

The rumored Gings offer is their 1st and 3rd this year and next years 1st so please end the crap player and crap pick offers .... Were not getting this one

[LASkin]

A little more fuel to the Cutler fire. He's put his home up for sale in Denver.

See: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-cutlershouse&prov=ap&type=lgns .

[shally]

A little more fuel to the Cutler fire. He's put his home up for sale in Denver.

See: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-cutlershouse&prov=ap&type=lgns .

he gets traded at the draft... they will look for a partner to swap depending upon whom they want

if there is no one they want this year, they will take a second day pick of a qb and will go with someone like leftwich for a year until they decide whom they really want

they dont even have a backup because ramsey is a free agent as well

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

ramsey went to the texans did'nt he?
i would not take cutler because he seems like a big whiner,and we don't need a whiner playing qb.say what you will,i have'nt yet heard jason campbell whine under gibbs or zorn,and if anybody had a right to it was him!

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/03/14/stakes-get-higher-in-cutler-broncos-feud/


Interesting.
When news broke that Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler is selling his Denver-area home, the “nothing to see here” crowd was quick to point out that Cutler owns other property in Denver, and that he has been wanting to sell the house in question for a while.

We wonder what they’ll be saying now that the house in which Cutler’s parents live is up for sale, too?

According to NBC 9 in Denver, the 4,100-square foot home has landed on the market, for a mere $835,000.

Even if Cutler’s decision to sell his own house was a coincidence, Cutler can’t blame cluelessness on this latest development.

Clearly, he wants out of Denver. And, clearly, he and his family are moving forward as if he’s going to get his way.

[shally]

ramsey went to the texans did'nt he?
i would not take cutler because he seems like a big whiner,and we don't need a whiner playing qb.say what you will,i have'nt yet heard jason campbell whine under gibbs or zorn,and if anybody had a right to it was him!

i dont think ramsey got signed. he is still out there as far as i know.

i dont care about whining, i only care about performance and i personally think that cutler is a far better qb. i would take him in a heartbeat in a even swap for JC.. but i dont think it will ever happen.. too messy.. zorn is already on the ledge waiting for a push from vinny who is behind him.

[Tha Boss Hogg]

i dont think ramsey got signed. he is still out there as far as i know.

i dont care about whining, i only care about performance and i personally think that cutler is a far better qb. i would take him in a heartbeat in a even swap for JC.. but i dont think it will ever happen.. too messy.. zorn is already on the ledge waiting for a push from vinny who is behind him.

The order of those on the cliff is


Jim Zorn
Vinny Cerrato
Jason Campbell


In that order...

[shally]

The order of those on the cliff is


Jim Zorn
Vinny Cerrato
Jason Campbell


In that order...

nope
Campbell
Zorn
Cerrato

i think it is 50/50 that Vinny survives even if JC and Zorn (who are truly joined at the hip this year) get cut loose this year. cockroaches are said to be able to survive even nuclear winter..

[NamVet4]

nope
Campbell
Zorn
Cerrato

i think it is 50/50 that Vinny survives even if JC and Zorn (who are truly joined at the hip this year) get cut loose this year. cockroaches are said to be able to survive even nuclear winter..

+1
Cerrato,because of his "unique" relationship with Danny will initially be moved within the organization and then quietly leave.
Campbell and Zorn will be replaced with much more public hoopla...

[sinskin]

Cutler for JC faster then you can say Cap Space!

[Death_Venom]

Cutler for JC faster then you can say Cap Space!

Cutler is WAY overrated.....

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Cutler is WAY overrated.....
I disagree but even if you're right...he's still much better than Jason.

[Death_Venom]

Come on now! People need to be serious. Why the hell would the Cardinals trade Boldin for 2 garbage receivers and a 2nd rounder?

Cap space and removing a potential headache for themselves. Besides much of the league still regards MOSS & ARE as top quality recievers.......

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I am sure Josh McDaniels has seen plenty of film on JC, and would not want to go backwards as far as a quick decision maker.

[LASkin]

The time to acquire a good asset is when it is undervalued. Several things conspire to reduce Cutler's value at the moment. He is fighting with a front office that is tearing up the roster anyway, his team collapsed in its playoff run last fall (Cutler's fault or not), and his diabetes - discovered last year? - scares off a lot of people who don't understand it and are not used to seeing it in an NFL player. The uglier the spat with the front office gets, the more likely their GM is to pull the trigger on a trade - so he can get what he can and move on.

Another factor that has not been mentioned, I don't believe, is that Campbell's contract situation may actually be a positive in Denver. They acquire a credible replacement for Cutler - one with the same record last season - and if they don't like what they see, they have no contract to worry about after the season. For a team that's rebuilding, that can be more attractive than being stuck with a multiyear contract for Cutler. By rebuilding, they will have plenty of money to go after whoever they want in the league or the draft.

Trades get made all the time that benefit one team more than the other. It just seems like they all involve Washington on the losing end, but that's not really true. This could be a trade with perfect timing, for once, favoring the Skins.

[shally]

The time to acquire a good asset is when it is undervalued. Several things conspire to reduce Cutler's value at the moment. He is fighting with a front office that is tearing up the roster anyway, his team collapsed in its playoff run last fall (Cutler's fault or not), and his diabetes - discovered last year? - scares off a lot of people who don't understand it and are not used to seeing it in an NFL player. The uglier the spat with the front office gets, the more likely their GM is to pull the trigger on a trade - so he can get what he can and move on.

Another factor that has not been mentioned, I don't believe, is that Campbell's contract situation may actually be a positive in Denver. They acquire a credible replacement for Cutler - one with the same record last season - and if they don't like what they see, they have no contract to worry about after the season. For a team that's rebuilding, that can be more attractive than being stuck with a multiyear contract for Cutler. By rebuilding, they will have plenty of money to go after whoever they want in the league or the draft.

Trades get made all the time that benefit one team more than the other. It just seems like they all involve Washington on the losing end, but that's not really true. This could be a trade with perfect timing, for once, favoring the Skins.
agree. but then our front office usually adds another pick or two to sweeten the deal all the time, losing any advantage we might have...

[LASkin]

agree. but then our front office usually adds another pick or two to sweeten the deal all the time, losing any advantage we might have...

That scares me too. There goes #1 or #2 (or both) for next year. Maybe they would like Betts instead, since they have no RBs?

[shally]

That scares me too. There goes #1 or #2 (or both) for next year. Maybe they would like Betts instead, since they have no RBs?

the question is why you would want betts if you can draft the next steve slaton ?

[Oregonian]

Campbell and a pick(s) for Cutler is one blockbuster, splashy deal that I could get fully behind.

Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. I believe we are committed to letting the Jason Campbell saga play out for another wasted season until enough consensus is reached that he is not the guy to build a team around.

[akhhorus]

Cap space and removing a potential headache for themselves. Besides much of the league still regards MOSS & ARE as top quality recievers.......

Which league? Canada?

[Gravy]

the question is why you would want betts if you can draft the next steve slaton ?

...or the next...Maurice Clarret

[Gravy]

Which league? Canada?

Hey isn't the UFL starting up this year...:)

[shoogknight]

the question is why you would want betts if you can draft the next steve slaton ?


I would do betts + JC + our third

Betts would have 1200 rushing + 400 receiving in Denver next year.

[hail2skins]

I can't believe this thread generated this much discussion. Party on dudes.

[shally]

I would do betts + JC + our third

Betts would have 1200 rushing + 400 receiving in Denver next year.

nah.. shanny aint there any more..lol

[ZainZ]

yeah why is this thread even ongoing. the broncos dont want to downgrade. Cutler is the real deal. if their smart theyll keep em. the kid can flat out play. fourth quarter defensive letdowns and having to put up so many points was the death of him last year. thats all. they dont want campbell, and nor do the broncos receivers want campbell throwing the ball to them.

[shally]

yeah why is this thread even ongoing. the broncos dont want to downgrade. Cutler is the real deal. if their smart theyll keep em. the kid can flat out play. fourth quarter defensive letdowns and having to put up so many points was the death of him last year. thats all. they dont want campbell, and nor do the broncos receivers want campbell throwing the ball to them.

there is so much ill will right now between cutler and the broncos coaching staff/front office that unless they do some serious fence mending they will have an intolerable situation on their hands come training camp...

[ZainZ]

there is so much ill will right now between cutler and the broncos coaching staff/front office that unless they do some serious fence mending they will have an intolerable situation on their hands come training camp...

oh yeah i know they ha da meeting today and i heard it didnt go too well. but the cassel window is gone. they better do something to keep cutler because if their getting offers like campbell for cutler hypothetically, then they better unhook their phones right now. id do it in a heartbeat though on the redskins end

[ClubSandwichGuy]

I would do betts + JC + our third
Denver wouldn't do that. You guys are dreaming.

[ZainZ]

Denver wouldn't do that. You guys are dreaming.

trades in todays NFL usually arent fair anymore. at least asking prices arent. teamsa always want a first round plus PICK something else for a QB or a wide receiver of that caliber. i was surprised to see julian peterson for cory redding i havent seen a one for one swap in a while. one team always gets ripped off in a trade it seems

[LASkin]

oh yeah i know they ha da meeting today and i heard it didnt go too well. but the cassel window is gone. they better do something to keep cutler because if their getting offers like campbell for cutler hypothetically, then they better unhook their phones right now. id do it in a heartbeat though on the redskins end

The meeting actually went badly, according to news reports. See Sports Illustrated at: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/03/15/broncos.cutler.ap/index.html?eref=si_nfl .

[Skins3]

this deal is a great possibility

BECAUSE

the FO has realized (by seriously trying to upgrade the already #4 ranked defense,Hall and Haynesworth)that the offense in place has no real chance of winning this team a championship. Or they would have upgraded the 28 or 29th in scoreing offense. I like the Dockery signing but not a humongus upgrade in my opinion.

[shally]

this deal is a great possibility

BECAUSE

the FO has realized (by seriously trying to upgrade the already #4 ranked defense,Hall and Haynesworth)that the offense in place has no real chance of winning this team a championship. Or they would have upgraded the 28 or 29th in scoreing offense. I like the Dockery signing but not a humongus upgrade in my opinion.

i think it wont happen because Zorn is too insecure to ask for it right now.. and he may genuinely feel that Campbell is the long term answer ?? and i dont think the other coaches and front office have made up their minds on Campbell, so
the timing is just off for the redskins

on the other hand, we have acted impulsively in the past under Snyder (signing Jeff George), so who knows what they do ??

[hail2skins]

I just want to remind everyone that even though this is a message board, we do appreciate punctuation and correct grammar. Just a friendly reminder

[shally]

I just want to remind everyone that even though this is a message board, we do appreciate punctuation and correct grammar. Just a friendly reminder

my bad.. cleaned up. sorry, it just slipped through...

[shally]

just to keep the pot boiling...

www.profootballtalk.com is reporting that Cutler has said he wont show at tomorrow's Voluntary Bronco workouts..Not sure why they would have one so early, and even before the draft ??? but that is what they are reporting in the rumors section...

[Fathead]

I can't believe this thread generated this much discussion. Party on dudes.

I have not seen one credible source that has anything with Cutler coming to DC.

[shally]

I have not seen one credible source that has anything with Cutler coming to DC.

absolutely true.. but i cannot see him being the Denver QB with all the bitterness that has happened. he is going somewhere else, for sure.

the lions are the latest team to be linked to him (again per PFT)

[Gravy]

I have not seen one credible source that has anything with Cutler coming to DC.

People are bored...and some actually think this is going to happen...I think New England will trade all 3 of their 2nd round picks for Ladell Betts...:)

[hail2skins]

I have not seen one credible source that has anything with Cutler coming to DC.Now, you know people will talk.

[redbamaskins]

if vinny or dan is reading this please trade jc for cutler
I beg of you, I cant stand the thought of watching his lame a$$ qb for the skins anymore.

[IndySkin]

I would do betts + JC + our third

Betts would have 1200 rushing + 400 receiving in Denver next year.

that sounds tasty!

[shally]

Now, you know people will talk.

but the way things are going, cutler will be going SOMEWHERE.. the way we are hoarding cap space, nothing the front office would do could surprise me any more

[ClubSandwichGuy]

if vinny or dan is reading this please trade jc for cutler
I beg of you, I cant stand the thought of watching his lame a$$ qb for the skins anymore.
Do you understand we would probably have to give up at LEAST a 1st rounder to make that happen? Cutler is the most overrated QB in the league. He is the worst decision maker out of all starting quarterbacks and he is a big cry baby. I'm sorry, I don't want the Terrell Owens of quarterbacks on the 'skins. There are enough holes to fill, the last thing we need is to sign this garbage quarterback.

[redbamaskins]

Do you understand we would probably have to give up at LEAST a 1st rounder to make that happen? Cutler is the most overrated QB in the league. He is the worst decision maker out of all starting quarterbacks and he is a big cry baby. I'm sorry, I don't want the Terrell Owens of quarterbacks on the 'skins. There are enough holes to fill, the last thing we need is to sign this garbage quarterback.

i have watched many a game of both jc and jay , both in college and in the pros . jay is a better qb
I like cutler, i want, i need,i must have him, Dan do what takes to get him!

[shally]

Do you understand we would probably have to give up at LEAST a 1st rounder to make that happen? Cutler is the most overrated QB in the league. He is the worst decision maker out of all starting quarterbacks and he is a big cry baby. I'm sorry, I don't want the Terrell Owens of quarterbacks on the 'skins. There are enough holes to fill, the last thing we need is to sign this garbage quarterback.

relax.. i dont think it is very likely to happen

[skinsfan36]

relax.. i dont think it is very likely to happen

i wish we would get cutler it would make us true contenders imo

[ClubSandwichGuy]

relax.. i dont think it is very likely to happen
I don't think it will either, but I just hate how he is treated as if he is an elite quarterback. In this age of Fantasy Football it is almost as if all anyone ever does is look at TDs and yards to see if a quarterback is good.

[shally]

I don't think it will either, but I just hate how he is treated as if he is an elite quarterback. In this age of Fantasy Football it is almost as if all anyone ever does is look at TDs and yards to see if a quarterback is good.


well, you are measured by your results..JC's have been pretty modest, so the fans get restless..

[LASkin]

Do you understand we would probably have to give up at LEAST a 1st rounder to make that happen? Cutler is the most overrated QB in the league. He is the worst decision maker out of all starting quarterbacks and he is a big cry baby. I'm sorry, I don't want the Terrell Owens of quarterbacks on the 'skins. There are enough holes to fill, the last thing we need is to sign this garbage quarterback.

How can both parts of your statement be true? If Cutler is such a loser, the Broncos would realize it, and get what they can get as fast as possible. Why would anyone bid up his price if he's the "Terrell Owens of quarterbacks".

BTW, the TO comparison is simply ridiculous. That's just making up facts to win your point. Based on the reactions to Cutler in this thread, it looks like you aren't winning the point.

[ClubSandwichGuy]

How can both parts of your statement be true? If Cutler is such a loser, the Broncos would realize it, and get what they can get as fast as possible. Why would anyone bid up his price if he's the "Terrell Owens of quarterbacks".

BTW, the TO comparison is simply ridiculous. That's just making up facts to win your point. Based on the reactions to Cutler in this thread, it looks like you aren't winning the point.
Because, as I said, he is overrated. People think he is better than he is.

And I don't care about "winning" a point. My goal in life is not be in the majority, because whether something is right or not is not determined by the majority. Jay Cutler IS a cry baby, period. I don't want a headache like him on the 'skins.

[csquared]

Because, as I said, he is overrated. People think he is better than he is.

And I don't care about "winning" a point. My goal in life is not be in the majority, because whether something is right or not is not determined by the majority. Jay Cutler IS a cry baby, period. I don't want a headache like him on the 'skins.

Yea because we don't have any of those on this team................ Oh wait! Hold on! I forgot about the "T.O" of running backs that we have already.

[LASkin]

Because, as I said, he is overrated. People think he is better than he is.

And I don't care about "winning" a point. My goal in life is not be in the majority, because whether something is right or not is not determined by the majority. Jay Cutler IS a cry baby, period. I don't want a headache like him on the 'skins.

I see, doesn't matter whether anyone agrees with you . . . so, why bother telling them what you think in the first place?

While we're at it, what's the evidence that Cutler is a "cry baby" (other than that he is mad at the front office over a botched trade)? I really don't know where this comes from, and I've never heard it from anyone outside of this board. Do you know something the rest of us don't? Or have you hit the point where you just know what he's like deep down, and you don't need no stinkin' evidence?

[Skins57]

It is almost 215 am and I am still working on my english paper for my college class, what I am saying is i have not read this whole thread, so if am repeating anything I am sorry (I am sure I will:moon2:)

I would be willing ...very willing to package a future high draft pick with JC to get cutler. I just saw tonight Jay has asked to be traded... I hate to say it but I am not sure JC will ever be a very good QB. He did play decent and very well at times last year, but I still have never felt like he will be the future of this team.... he has become a Ramsey for me, first rounder that will not work out for us, maybe servicable but not very good very good on a consistant basis. I know I am saying this on a gut feeling but when has he been consistant and healthy for a whole Just my opinion and am very tired so excuse my crappy grammer...lol

[firehawk157]

Cutler was formerly asked to be traded

Linky Goodness (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805)

You may return to your normally scheduled wild speculation.

[Hr fan]

gonna have to agree w/ you, JTF. They Jury is still out on JCamp due to circumstances beyond his control (the O-line and the FO's neglect of it). Lets see how things go this year. If the line play is up to par, he should improve dramatically over last year. That said, I still expect him to improve his game, regardless of the line's play.

6-2, no ints. Portis for MVP w/4.5 ypc. Then 2-6, 6 ints (best in NFL or 2nd best), receivers that run yds short on 1st downs. CP at 3.3 ypc. Glad I am not alone in thinking that JC has improved a lot, and has room for further growth in (only) his second yr in Zorn's O - unless the oline collapses again.

[Hr fan]

Do you understand we would probably have to give up at LEAST a 1st rounder to make that happen? Cutler is the most overrated QB in the league. He is the worst decision maker out of all starting quarterbacks and he is a big cry baby. I'm sorry, I don't want the Terrell Owens of quarterbacks on the 'skins. There are enough holes to fill, the last thing we need is to sign this garbage quarterback.

Could not agree more.

[ClubSandwichGuy]

I see, doesn't matter whether anyone agrees with you . . . so, why bother telling them what you think in the first place?

While we're at it, what's the evidence that Cutler is a "cry baby" (other than that he is mad at the front office over a botched trade)? I really don't know where this comes from, and I've never heard it from anyone outside of this board. Do you know something the rest of us don't? Or have you hit the point where you just know what he's like deep down, and you don't need no stinkin' evidence?
I would love for people to agree with me, but it's not how I judge whether I am right or wrong, or whether I am "winning" or not.

[SimplyZ]

Does anyone REALLY want to go through another season of a QB learning a new offense on-the-go ?

Give Campbell another year in the last year of his contract

Cutler would be average and then we'd all be yelling about signing Donavan or some crap next season

[Oregonian]

Does anyone REALLY want to go through another season of a QB learning a new offense on-the-go ?



I think if you put someone like Cutler under center all the talk about learning the offense and the rest of the litany of excuses would suddenly stop.

Because touchdown passes would start happening.

[firehawk157]

6-2, no ints. Portis for MVP w/4.5 ypc. Then 2-6, 6 ints (best in NFL or 2nd best), receivers that run yds short on 1st downs. CP at 3.3 ypc. Glad I am not alone in thinking that JC has improved a lot, and has room for further growth in (only) his second yr in Zorn's O - unless the oline collapses again.

However, Cutler did well (88 QB rating) in his first year in the NFL, so I don't think the "we'll be back to square 1" argument holds much water. For whatever reason, Cutler seems to grasp an NFL offense fairly quickly. As for Campbell, he didn't really grow too terribly much from year 1 to year 2 in Saunders' offense so I don't know why it's assumed he will this year.

[Fathead]

I think if you put someone like Cutler under center all the talk about learning the offense and the rest of the litany of excuses would suddenly stop.

Because touchdown passes would start happening.

Who would catch them? The drop brigade? Cooley can't catch every pass.

[firehawk157]

id rather judge campbell when his line he has a line that can play....that unit let jason down last year.....and they (players) know it......it amazes me how we expect qbs to make water into wine.....but give them no help...most qbs in the league that had badd lines...didn't do too well....so why do we think jason should be any different....when romo's line was horrible two years ago he was horrible....and so on....

Romo posted a 95 rating while throwing for 19 TDs. He also got sacked a comparable amount (26 times over 10.5 games) so your comparison falls a bit flat here.

I also can't blame it all on everybody else but JC. Would he succeed with the best line in the league and all-pro receivers and a great ground game to complement it? Sure, but I bet I could too. JC didn't help the matter by being slow with everything from the presnap to the release of the ball.

[firehawk157]

Who would catch them? The drop brigade? Cooley can't catch every pass.
Probably Devin Thomas given that Cutler would not be scared to throw it to him.

[saviour]

Probably Devin Thomas given that Cutler would not be scared to throw it to him.

When did Devin Thomas start playing signifigant minutes?

[wide_awake]

I think if you put someone like Cutler under center all the talk about learning the offense and the rest of the litany of excuses would suddenly stop.

Because touchdown passes would start happening.

I bet quarterbacks learn new offenses more often than we realize; we just make a big deal out of it to pamper Campbell.

[shoogknight]

I bet quarterbacks learn new offenses more often than we realize; we just make a big deal out of it to pamper Campbell.

You hit the nail on the head. The JC apologists have used this as their crutch for 2 years now. I dont care about the system, its still throwing to open recievers

Which makes for the real argument. Has he had open recievers?? I dont know, but i simply do not think that JC will amount to much.

It is proven that there are so many different development tracks for NFL QB's.

1.QB plays well immediately
2. QB sits for 1-2 years and plays well
3. QB bounces from team to team with no promise and comes out of no where to play well at some point late in career.
4-5 See above but add QB plays terribly and exits league, behind above statements


Where will JC fall? I can say he will never be as good as Cutler. I do know that.

He we can give him up with this years first, or even better, next years 1st instead. PLEASE do it Vinny!!!!

[Fathead]

Uh, no you can't say that. Cutler could lose an arm tomorrow. Campbell could find the right fit and flourish. Both could bomb. Who knows.

[wide_awake]

Uh, no you can't say that. Cutler could lose an arm tomorrow. Campbell could find the right fit and flourish. Both could bomb. Who knows.

Or he could grow wings and spontaneously develop 4:20 speed!


We're looking at historical data and you can lump 99% of QB careers into a small handful of paths.

[shoogknight]

Or he could grow wings and spontaneously develop 4:20 speed!


He wouldnt need to grow wings for 420 speed.

Just hang out with Ricky Williams or Santonio Holmes

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Assuming the QB position is based on wins and losses as others have stated in this thread, Cutler needs to do a little more that what he has done before we annoint him anything.

If you are asking would I trade Campbell for Cutler straight up, the answer is yes. Would I start throwing a bunch of draft picks in there? No. He needs to prove a little more than 8-8 playing in the worst division in football.

[bergiemoore]

He wouldnt need to grow wings for 420 speed.

Just hang out with Ricky Williams or Santonio Holmes

nice

[wide_awake]

He wouldnt need to grow wings for 420 speed.

Just hang out with Ricky Williams or Santonio Holmes

tomato-tomoto

[sinskin]

Mute point anyways really... Mcdaniels wanted the QB who knew his system inside and out and flourished in it. He wanted the trade FOR HIM. Anyone else is a consolation prize. There wouldnt even be a trade rumor there now if it weren't for Cutler. Denver would be incrediblely stupid to do a trade. Cutler is considering making the workouts according to a article I read yesterday which I dont have the link to unfortunitly.

[sinskin]

Assuming the QB position is based on wins and losses as others have stated in this thread, Cutler needs to do a little more that what he has done before we annoint him anything.

If you are asking would I trade Campbell for Cutler straight up, the answer is yes. Would I start throwing a bunch of draft picks in there? No. He needs to prove a little more than 8-8 playing in the worst division in football.

I wonder how JC would have done with a ridiculous defense and his 7th string RB running the ball. I'll go out on a limb and say "horrible."

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I wonder how JC would have done with a ridiculous defense and his 7th string RB running the ball. I'll go out on a limb and say "horrible."

or two pro bowl caliber WR's?

[Fathead]

I'm sure he would have been awful having to play against the Chiefs and Raiders twice each.

[bergiemoore]

I wonder how JC would have done with a ridiculous defense and his 7th string RB running the ball. I'll go out on a limb and say "horrible."

In the crappiest division in the NFL last year, Cutler went 8-8.

[firehawk157]

In the crappiest division in the NFL last year, Cutler went 8-8.
Cutler also had the worst defense in the league (among them at least) and had street FAs starting at RB for significant portions of the season.

Also, he had one pro-bowl caliber receiver and no other real targets (unless you want to argue that Eddie Royal deserves to be in the pro-bowl).

[csquared]

In the crappiest division in the NFL last year, Cutler went 8-8.

Yea your right. Since Cutler played all 22 positions last year...:rolleyes:

[Fathead]

Yea your right. Since Cutler played all 22 positions last year...:rolleyes:

Well goodness, people sure seem to be willing to blame Campbell for 8-8.

[Jon Creveling]

What would be interesting to see is, just how Denver fans would feel about a swap?:)

I don't have the time the last few days with work to go on the spy, and I'm in N.J. where near everyone is either an N.f.c. East fan or a Jets follower so I don't know any real Broncos fans for input, any of you guys know Denver fans?

Allow me to wonder out loud and venture some Denver fans thoughts.........:devil2:

Bronco's fan example (a)

"Washington would be crazy to trade Campbell for our whinny-ass Cutler! 18 picks to 6! He's too safe with the ball and he won't run and hide when Phillip Rivers is standing across the field! Duh, the Skins g.m. would never make that move unless we sent Champ back to, to sweeten the deal one on one for the guy that backs up Portis!"

Bronco's fan example (b)

"what are you guys crazy? Campbell sucks, atleast in the Redskins games that I've seen! Yea I'll give you he'd make a great game manager but he'll never win a game on his own,duh the Skins D was ranked 4th and with our all-sucky defense we need all the scoring we can get! BLANK the turnovers! We can live with that! I'd want Campbell+ Portis+ the guy that backs up Portis for Jay!"

You guys are welcome to adjust and or refine the two examples as you see fit. But in all seriousness if would be interesting to see/hear Denver fan feedback.......................................... .........................

[IndySkin]

Well goodness, people sure seem to be willing to blame Campbell for 8-8.

No, I think people are saying that Jay Cutler is better than Jason Campbell and that is why we should get him.

[IndySkin]

What would be interesting to see is, just how Denver fans would feel about a swap?:)

I don't have the time the last few days with work to go on the spy, and I'm in N.J. where near everyone is either an N.f.c. East fan or a Jets follower so I don't know any real Broncos fans for input, any of you guys know Denver fans?

Allow me to wonder out loud and venture some Denver fans thoughts.........:devil2:

Bronco's fan example (a)

"Washington would be crazy to trade Campbell for our whinny-ass Cutler! 18 picks to 6! He's too safe with the ball and he won't run and hide when Phillip Rivers is standing across the field! Duh, the Skins g.m. would never make that move unless we sent Champ back to, to sweeten the deal one on one for the guy that backs up Portis!"

Bronco's fan example (b)

"what are you guys crazy? Campbell sucks, atleast in the Redskins games that I've seen! Yea I'll give you he'd make a great game manager but he'll never win a game on his own,duh the Skins D was ranked 4th and with our all-sucky defense we need all the scoring we can get! BLANK the turnovers! We can live with that! I'd want Campbell+ Portis+ the guy that backs up Portis for Jay!"

You guys are welcome to adjust and or refine the two examples as you see fit. But in all seriousness if would be interesting to see/hear Denver fan feedback.......................................... .........................

I think we would convert a lot of Denver fans into Redskin fans.

[Tha Boss Hogg]

I think we would convert a lot of Denver fans into Redskin fans.

I think so too, they seem to really like Cutler, they seem like they would follow him where ever he goes...

[IndySkin]

How many quarterbacks had to learn new offenses last year? Farve, Pennington, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco. With the exception of Farve, who is none other than Brett Farve, the other three had pretty good years. Is Chad Pennington better than Cutler, no way. The Dolphins won their division. Ryan and Flacco, rookies of course, but they had too learn new systems as well, and their teams finished 11-5 and went to playoffs. Is Joe Flacco better than Cutler, I don't think so. Is Matt Ryan, better than Cutler. I wouldn't say better, but an argument can be made that he and Cutler share a lot of similar attributes.

The whole learning of a new system mumbo jumbo is something that has been created by us to blanket our current quarterback starter(s) over the years. Learning a new offensive system, understanding it, and executing it is up to the players. I find it hard to believe that Zorn's system is so complex that Campbell had THAT much trouble executing it.

Well, its looking more and more likely that Jay Cutler will be traded. So some people who have commented on this thread think that whoever gets Jay Cutler next season is pretty much throwing the 2009 season in the trash while he learns to pick up that team's offense? Seriously? A Pro Bowl quarterback is going to wreck a team's season because he has to learn their offense? Wow.