What Position Do We Draft for Now? Part II

[colkurtz]

A couple weeks ago I started a thread on what position we thought the team may draft for with their first draft pick; I'll also take a trade of draft picks toward a big FA. The results from this old poll are below. somehow I see some changes now.
44% - OL
24% - Trade Down
16% - OLB
8% QB
With the massive zig-zag course corrections of the Snyderrato management "style" I suspect that everyone may have some new ideas now. Once again this vote is what Vinny/Snyder will do; then you can tell us why you'd do it different. In the last week there was a big surge for QB. Do you really think we'll go that way now?

[colkurtz]

For all the talk about QB, I still think they will go for OLB - Maluaga. We have a big hole there and need a blitzer with our old DE's anchoring the ends.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Going...down? It makes the most sense, too many holes, the elite OT's, QB's and OLB's are gone at 13...i.e. Stafford, Monroe, Smith, Oher, Curry, etc. We need to trade down to somewhere between 17-23 pick up a 2nd or a 3rd and draft BPA while factoring in team needs.

[shally]

A couple weeks ago I started a thread on what position we thought the team may draft for with their first draft pick; I'll also take a trade of draft picks toward a big FA. The results from this old poll are below. somehow I see some changes now.
44% - OL
24% - Trade Down
16% - OLB
8% QB
With the massive zig-zag course corrections of the Snyderrato management "style" I suspect that everyone may have some new ideas now. Once again this vote is what Vinny/Snyder will do; then you can tell us why you'd do it different. In the last week there was a big surge for QB. Do you really think we'll go that way now?

that is exactly how i see the odds breaking down

i dont think we are trading up because we dont have the points to be able to do it

[nicefellow31]

I voted OL and if there was room for a 2nd vote I would have said OLB. However who knows what our FO is thinking. They will take whomever Dan wants, which will probably be in his words, "a sexy pick".

[shally]

i am SO over this and ready for camp and OTA's to actually begin.. all this free floating anxiety is too much

[NCskinsfanatic]

i am SO over this and ready for camp and OTA's to actually begin.. all this free floating anxiety is too much

I agree shally... so Im going to continue to believe that we'll be smart enough to trade down and fill holes at OT and OLB even if I know we aren't lol.

[shally]

I agree shally... so Im going to continue to believe that we'll be smart enough to trade down and fill holes at OT and OLB even if I know we aren't lol.

on one hand, i would love it if we traded for Boldin because it would essentially end our draft and i wouldnt have to watch it unfold, like a car wreck in slow motion.

i just hope that sanchez comes off the board very early to someone else, so it forces us to face reality and fix the holes we actually have to fix this offseason...

[NCskinsfanatic]

on one hand, i would love it if we traded for Boldin because it would essentially end our draft and i wouldnt have to watch it unfold, like a car wreck in slow motion.

i just hope that sanchez comes off the board very early to someone else, so it forces us to face reality and fix the holes we actually have to fix this offseason...

We can only hope that's how it plays out. I think Seattle or Denver (at Seattles spot) will take Sanchez, either way i think he's gone in the top 5. We should see whos there at OT at 13, I might consider Rey there also but ultimately if we can trade down and still get a RT thats what I'd do. Someone like Britton at RT or maybe DE Tyson Jackson in the late teens/early 20's would be fine with me. We'd then be able to target 2 more players in the 3rd to address OLB/OL and still have a full compliment of draft picks for the new coach in 2010 lol.

[colkurtz]

on one hand, i would love it if we traded for Boldin because it would essentially end our draft and i wouldnt have to watch it unfold, like a car wreck in slow motion.

i just hope that sanchez comes off the board very early to someone else, so it forces us to face reality and fix the holes we actually have to fix this offseason...

I'm kind of with you there. Boldin and moss would be a very tough combination. If we could save one spot for an OL draft pick...

I also wonder if Snyderrato will trade give away any draft picks from next year in a bid to get Boldin. That's the only way we'll get him.

Logically I think it's either Oher or Maulaga. But since the two Stooges don't think normally anything could happen.

[colkurtz]

Another problem with the OL selection is that as many as 3-5 OT may be gone by #13.

Its' amazing to see the wide selection of possible picks on all the draft boards. If the FO is trying to fool everyone as to their direction, they've done a good job at that. Of course, it's mostly because Snyderrato doesn't think like anyone else in the NFL........

There is also a part of me that would like to see a DE selection, but with Blache's defense I think that pick would be a waste this season.

[bigcmr]

I'm kind of with you there. Boldin and moss would be a very tough combination. If we could save one spot for an OL draft pick...

I also wonder if Snyderrato will trade give away any draft picks from next year in a bid to get Boldin. That's the only way we'll get him.

Logically I think it's either Oher or Maulaga. But since the two Stooges don't think normally anything could happen.

Bolden will cost us a lot. If they go after him kiss that #13 pick away. and picks next year too.

Trade down if we can.

[shally]

I'm kind of with you there. Boldin and moss would be a very tough combination. If we could save one spot for an OL draft pick...

I also wonder if Snyderrato will trade give away any draft picks from next year in a bid to get Boldin. That's the only way we'll get him.

Logically I think it's either Oher or Maulaga. But since the two Stooges don't think normally anything could happen.

i would be very happy with either Oher or Maulauga.. either way we get a player who should contribute for years

[Emmanouel8]

My vote was for best available O lineman but I would have gone with best available linemen defensive or offensive. This draft has to focus on retooling those areas.

[Jon Creveling]

Another problem with the OL selection is that as many as 3-5 OT may be gone by #13.

There is also a part of me that would like to see a DE selection, but with Blache's defense I think that pick would be a waste this season.

Tough poll, because you are after all asking with the vote "what they will do" as opposed to what the fans will do!

Using those guidelines, I voted OLB,,,,by more of elimination than anything else.

(A) move up for Sanchez? .........can't realy see that they would truly have the balls to move up,,, not way up if they fear he goes early, but if he's still there at 13 we have a new qb.!

(B) Boldin?....Making a move on Boldin means admitting that Thomas and Kelly are busts before they are even given a legit shot, would think they shy away from any real trade talk with the Cards. Unless the Cards had interest in Moss and/or Rogers.

(C) Sure they could trade down and fill the top three needs of "FAN CONCERN" but something tells me for them it's a little too complicated for Vinny to pull off,,,,,,, UNLESS it's very much the game plan going into Saturday! And just how likely is that?

If things jump off Saturday and offers are made, who the hell knows what moves and possible reaches they make to fill OT-OLB-DE? That's if those positions are targeted? Sadly who the hell as a fan can realy get a vibe on what they are thinking?

(D) A REAL D.E.? ............agree not until Blache is gone, the prospect would have to be so good, learn so quickly , and conform to Gregs mindset as to have any impact this year, I'd hate to see a good prospect get drafted high and then sit behind my boy Wynn and Phil :), almost as I hate to have to root for those two! I'm realy caught in a bind with D.E. as I realy want one but at the same time Greg and Palermo may ruin the kid before he even lands on his own two feet.

(E) R.T.?.....Between Jansen thinking he'll make the ProBowl and Bugel telling him he can! Along with Heyer running around the line much like a chicken with his head cut off, in their mind that means they are set! Vinny seemingly loves all the empty tough guy Rah-Rah talk coming out of Joe,,,,earned 25+ years ago in Redskins lore and having nothing to do with the present day.
Note! Fall back plan due to injury is Jon Runyon if he clears medically, you can smell that coming!

(F) Carlos traded= new C.B.? Face it if shopped there would be interest in this kid, just how much I can't judge. But just because we get pissed with his ever ending drops, other teams I'm sure would look at him as just a very good (not elite) C.B. without 4 years of first hand drops clouding their judgement. This could happen, maybe in a broader package but is remote, I think:confused:

(G) Again by your guidelines, arrive at OLB , maybe I'd like to think Kirk could get a day one prospect ready and waiting for opening day before Bugel or on the other line Palmero would blend a prospect in ( even a very talented one!). He did after all Blend Fletcher in right away and I thought he did do a good good getting Blades to fill in for Marcus, or the lack thereof.

Moral of the story?
I want a badass lineman at 13, on either line! Just as long as we get linemen! But deep in my heart I know not to expect one for yet another year. Patchwork again on the o-line and more 3rd down mush oozing out of the D.E. positon this year.

Hate to say it but have realy become a read and react fan, which will be my game plan come Saturday,,,,,,,,, just see what the hell they do and how they do it , and then either heap praise or bitch and moan all night!

[colkurtz]

Yes, I wanted to see what fans PREDICT Vinny will do and then what they would do as a GM with that juicy #13.

We need a starter. Someone who can come in and contribute and play well in Game #1. The biggest holes are the OL, OLB and DE.

Although I like the trade down idea, we still must have a starter to fill obne of our holes. If we can get two or three starters then that's great. Seeing the draft record of last year is not impressive.

I also like the idea of Runyon for a 1-2 year run. He is a beast and will deliver. Jansen lasted just half last year and I don't see him doing much better now. Having another OL player who is one play from paralysis is also not good.

If you trade it all away and get a Boldin and Runyon mix - well at least JC can go out swinging. There would be no excuses.

[Meatsnack]

I voted before I realized that I was predicting Snyderratto. Please change my vote to trade up for QB since that is the most ruinously stupid of the choices available.

I actually voted O-line because I would try to to that before trading down if there wasn't a blue chipper at 13.

[firehawk157]

I voted for QB for obvious reasons. If it was me however, I'd probably try to take OT if one of the top 4 slipped or trade down and go OT/OLB.

[dj_stouty]

Based on the FO's desires; I think they will seriously push to get a QB in the first round.

I'd personally like to see them get a RT or OLB.

I'd be upset if we got a RB or CB...

[shally]

Based on the FO's desires; I think they will seriously push to get a QB in the first round.

I'd personally like to see them get a RT or OLB.

I'd be upset if we got a RB or CB...

fortunately, none of the CB's appear to be that good this year.. maybe Toler is as good as any of them, only raw ??

as for RB, Portis aint having none of it, so we can forget about Snyder going that way..

[dj_stouty]

as for RB, Portis aint having none of it, so we can forget about Snyder going that way..

True. We all know Portis has a great relationship with Danny. However, it wouldn't surprise me for Danny to get a stiffie on a new RB this year or next...

Danny loves to flirt...

[firehawk157]

True. We all know Portis has a great relationship with Danny. However, it wouldn't surprise me for Danny to get a stiffie on a new RB this year or next...

Danny loves to flirt...
I doubt it. Especially not this year. McFadden and Bush were about as "sexy" as you can get and we never even considered those two.

[shally]

True. We all know Portis has a great relationship with Danny. However, it wouldn't surprise me for Danny to get a stiffie on a new RB this year or next...

Danny loves to flirt...

say what you will about portis, he is productive ... he is not the overall problem with this offense and as long as he isnt the problem, snyder will remain content

[dj_stouty]

say what you will about portis, he is productive ... he is not the overall problem with this offense and as long as he isnt the problem, snyder will remain content

Agreed. I'm 100% in Portis' corner; as I know great RBs don't grow on trees. Portis can be my running back any day. Plus, he is one good season away from becoming this franchise's all time rusher. (needs 1,370 years) Not a small accomplishment on a franchise known for running the ball well.

If Portis wants to miss some practices so he can be as close to 100% in December than so be it. No one blocks as well as he does; and he has been our workhorse ever since his first carry as a Redskin. (60+ yards to the house)

And Danny surely believes everything I typed above; but knowing him, I could see someone breakout at RB this college season and give him something to lust over until next year's draft.

[NamVet4]

With the massive zig-zag course corrections of the Snyderrato management "style" I suspect that everyone may have some new ideas now. Once again this vote is what Vinny/Snyder will do; then you can tell us why you'd do it different. In the last week there was a big surge for QB. Do you really think we'll go that way now?

Based on the bolded statement:The Snyderrato Ego machine will trade up looking for a sexy pick that will just knock the shoes off of someone! :(
What they should do is entirely different! My pick would be to trade down!
I would be talking to Denver, Philadelphia, New England etc., who all have significant multiple picks and see just what the # 13 is worth!

(BTW.. the poll choice should say "they want"...not "we want")

[dogfight6]

Trade down, not father than 23-25 area.

[BurgundyNGold]

The only OL I would take at 13 would be Andre Smith who will likely be gone and is a huge risk anyway. Rey Maualuga might be there at 13 and that would be a solid pick but I don't really like any other LB other than Curry who will be long gone. I also don't think any DT (Raji) or DE (Orakpo) worth that slot would be there at 13.

Anyone else would be a reach at 13 and not a solid conversion of value for the 13th pick -- especially given our many needs. Unless one of those guys falls to us, I say trade down.

[silverspring]

I still hope we trade down.

The whole sanchez thing might be smoke screen or it might not be, but he isn't falling to 13 and he might not even fall past seattle. So it is fairly unlikely we will even have the opportunity to draft him unless we trade up to the very top of the draft. This is pretty unlikely considering we don't have much to trade with.

I am not high on these linebackers. Most are too small to play sam. Some have injury histories and I am not into these guys with the roid rumours which I am guessing are true. I think Rey has some big question marks around him as well, the guy was surrounded by talent. Orakpo is a workout warrior and I worry about our FO getting enamored with him. I know he has had good results on the field but i don't know if it translates. Is the guy really a football player or a workout warrior that plays football?

I am sure some of these DE prospects will drop but not many of them are the bull rush style we need to plug in at LDE.

Maybe one of those tackles drops but I am not crossing my fingers and we might be reaching because there is such demand for tackle in this year's draft.

I still think our best value is trading down. Mack is as close to a sure thing as they get and if we get a 2nd there will be another good line prospect available like loadholt or on of those promising guards.

[shally]

The only OL I would take at 13 would be Andre Smith who will likely be gone and is a huge risk anyway. Rey Maualuga might be there at 13 and that would be a solid pick but I don't really like any other LB other than Curry who will be long gone. I also don't think any DT (Raji) or DE (Orakpo) worth that slot would be there at 13.

Anyone else would be a reach at 13 and not a solid conversion of value for the 13th pick -- especially given our many needs. Unless one of those guys falls to us, I say trade down.

Mack.. might be the surest pick in the draft.. great value anywhere from 15 on down
worst case scenario would be to move him or rabach to the right for a year before he takes over for good
he will anchor someone's line for 5-10 years and handle all those bruisers inside. might as well be us...

[SkinsGuru]

fortunately, none of the CB's appear to be that good this year.. maybe Toler is as good as any of them, only raw ??

as for RB, Portis aint having none of it, so we can forget about Snyder going that way..

i wouldn't go that far . . . when Edgerin James was available (before he went to AZ), portis was pushing for the Skins to bring him hear

[Jon Creveling]

I still hope we trade down.

I still think our best value is trading down. Mack is as close to a sure thing as they get and if we get a 2nd there will be another good line prospect available like loadholt or on of those promising guards.

I agree that trading down would be a best case scenario to cover needs, but unless we have faith in the f.o. to have planned for this going in I'm not at all sure we get good results out of it.

In other words, if going in they are hell bent on player -X- falling to 13 and he doesn't, I don't trust them to come away with impact players for OT and or OLBer that will start game 1. Certainly not if it is not the game plan going in to Saturday, who the hell can even remotely guess as to the picks if they are forced to do it under pressure?

Don't realy want to come away with say the 9th rated OT or the 11th rated OLB, and these guys sit with no real if any impact this year.

If that is the case, I'd rather them stay at 13 and get as close to an can't miss prospect to cover atleast one opening position, than a bunch of blah players at all of them.

The kid Mack does interest me in a trade down, but some how I just can't see the team acting on him as a focus on who to target. They just seem to be happy with Casey and willing to allow Randy to play through his injury so why would he (Mack) be a must-have in their eyes?

I do hope they address O-line Saturday and not Sunday, but simply don't trust them to do it.

[BurgundyNGold]

Mack.. might be the surest pick in the draft.. great value anywhere from 15 on down
worst case scenario would be to move him or rabach to the right for a year before he takes over for good
he will anchor someone's line for 5-10 years and handle all those bruisers inside. might as well be us...
Again, not at 13. If we traded down to 20, picked up a 2nd and got Mack, I'd be plenty fine with that.

[VegasSkinsFan]

I agree that trading down would be a best case scenario to cover needs, but unless we have faith in the f.o. to have planned for this going in I'm not at all sure we get good results out of it.

In other words, if going in they are hell bent on player -X- falling to 13 and he doesn't, I don't trust them to come away with impact players for OT and or OLBer that will start game 1. Certainly not if it is not the game plan going in to Saturday, who the hell can even remotely guess as to the picks if they are forced to do it under pressure?

Don't realy want to come away with say the 9th rated OT or the 11th rated OLB, and these guys sit with no real if any impact this year.

If that is the case, I'd rather them stay at 13 and get as close to an can't miss prospect to cover atleast one opening position, than a bunch of blah players at all of them.

The kid Mack does interest me in a trade down, but some how I just can't see the team acting on him as a focus on who to target. They just seem to be happy with Casey and willing to allow Randy to play through his injury so why would he (Mack) be a must-have in their eyes?

I do hope they address O-line Saturday and not Sunday, but simply don't trust them to do it.


The only thing is i believe Rabach is a free agent after this season, and we have no one waiting in the wings. At least with Mack or Unger , they can play Guard for the season. I agree that we need to address the oline on saturday, but i want a sunday pick for the oline too. OLine makes an offense and if DS/VC dont realize it...i have 2 words for them..Timmy Smith. GO SKINS !!!!!!

[VegasSkinsFan]

Again, not at 13. If we traded down to 20, picked up a 2nd and got Mack, I'd be plenty fine with that.

It would be the best thing. Do you think Mack is there at 23...might be able to trade with the patriots...since they have a slew of 2nds. Again, hate to repeat myself, but dont crap your pants when they announce that our 2010 first round pick gets traded for a 2009 2nd....or combo to get someone else. You just never know with this front office...long week of waiting for us fans.

[BurgundyNGold]

It would be the best thing. Do you think Mack is there at 23...might be able to trade with the patriots...since they have a slew of 2nds. Again, hate to repeat myself, but dont crap your pants when they announce that our 2010 first round pick gets traded for a 2009 2nd....or combo to get someone else. You just never know with this front office...long week of waiting for us fans.
Oh, nothing Snyderrato does shocks me anymore. It might bewilder me a little but I have lost the capacity to be shocked by their stupidity and recklessness.

If you want to predict what Snyderrato might do at any given moment, the best practice is probably just to figure out the most single-minded, immediately gratifying move that they could make and work back from there. ;)

[Jon Creveling]

The only thing is i believe Rabach is a free agent after this season, and we have no one waiting in the wings. At least with Mack or Unger , they can play Guard for the season. I agree that we need to address the oline on saturday, but i want a sunday pick for the oline too. OLine makes an offense and if DS/VC dont realize it...i have 2 words for them..Timmy Smith. GO SKINS !!!!!!

Timmy Smith..........:)

Man it's funny you brought him up, on one of his big runs I clearly remember Mark May knocking 4! YES I SAID 4 Broncos on their asses on one play!

That's when we had real O-lines, not this patchwork Quilt-like mess they are trying to sell.

Vegas, honestly I don't think that they think that far in advance to act on Mack, if they do I may pass out on the floor!:)

When you realy think about it they realy don't have anyone waiting in the wings at any position on O-line? To them Heyer is their swing-shift man and just fills in as needed. Geisinger looked like he had stage fright, and Rinehart looks to be in total limbo?

On top of all that when they jumped all over Derrick and Bugel handed the keys to Randy to play the 2nd half of the year, there just seems to be no voice on the team to force action sadly.

To tell the truth I'd be very much ok with Andre Smith at 13 (if still there) and a trade of 2010 picks to move on Mack but the team wouldn't do it.

If they do nothing of note this weekend on the o-line knowing all involved (including Bugel) might as well sign Pete as backup Guard and send feelers out now on Jon Runyan in a vain attempt to wing-it again.

[colkurtz]

If we take Smith or Ohers, if they are available, AND we somehow got runyon, i think we would have improved the OL a good deal for this season.

I would not be surprised if we somehow make a deal using next years picks - especially toward Boldin. Beefing up the OL, AH for the DL, Boldin and JC playing for a contract could get some excitement for this team.

Then I woke up and realized it's 4/20/09, Vinny is our GM and I'm not wearing red slippers to click together.........

[skinsfan36]

i voted ol. but linebacker or de wouldnt upset me.
want-oher,monroe(dreaming),smith,raji,maugala,matthews, beatty,mack,orakpo,brown
dont want-any rb,any wr not named barden,te,trading up for sanchez

[colkurtz]

WP just ran an article that the 'skins are high in Orakpo. Sort of a hybrid LB and DE. They had that with Jason Taylor - why didn't Blache use it that way with him?

JLC says 'skins are not interested in the rest of the DE draft crowd.

It also mentioned that Snyder might be looking to TRADE UP to get Sanchez. Maybe just a hand grenade from JLC toward Vinny and the little general....Mr Snyder please put that loaded pistol back on the desk and go back to you sucking your thumb.......

I still think this team could go for the defense even though the OL is so old and hurting. Perhaps Snyderrato thinks he can get a starter for the OL after the first round..

[joethefan]

WP just ran an article that the 'skins are high in Orakpo. Sort of a hybrid LB and DE. They had that with Jason Taylor - why didn't Blache use it that way with him?

JLC says 'skins are not interested in the rest of the DE draft crowd.

It also mentioned that Snyder might be looking to TRADE UP to get Sanchez. Maybe just a hand grenade from JLC toward Vinny and the little general....Mr Snyder please put that loaded pistol back on the desk and go back to you sucking your thumb.......

I still think this team could go for the defense even though the OL is so old and hurting. Perhaps Snyderrato thinks he can get a starter for the OL after the first round..


I would be for Orakbo only if we didn't give anything up for him and only blache uses him the right way.

I guess i should just put my foot in my mouth.....lol

[Patrick]

Orakpo is a VERY interesting pick. I have NO problem with him as the pick but still would prefer a OL or OLB.

[dj_stouty]

Orakpo is a VERY interesting pick. I have NO problem with him as the pick but still would prefer a OL or OLB.

My jaw would drop if the Skins actually drafted a DE in the first round...

[Patrick]

My jaw would drop if the Skins actually drafted a DE in the first round...
OH I agree .......... might just make me spill my beer ......:D

[akhhorus]

We're going QB by hook or by crook.

[warpaint]

We're going QB by hook or by crook.

you think we would go after freeman? that is if the other two are gone.

[akhhorus]

you think we would go after freeman? that is if the other two are gone.

Thats a possibility. I would hope that if Dirty Sanchez is taken in the top 4-5 and we're still bound and determined to get a QB, that we would trade down to the bottom of the first and draft Bomar.

[warpaint]

Thats a possibility. I would hope that if Dirty Sanchez is taken in the top 4-5 and we're still bound and determined to get a QB, that we would trade down to the bottom of the first and draft Bomar.
i have never seen freeman play,but based on a few highlights etc.,he appears to me to be a campbell clone,you agree or disagree ?

[akhhorus]

i have never seen freeman play,but based on a few highlights etc.,he appears to me to be a campbell clone,you agree or disagree ?

More Flacco/Big Ben mold than Campbell. Not saying Freeman will be remotely as good, but he's a big gunslinger. Campbell isn't.

[firehawk157]

We're going QB by hook or by crook.
While I'm no Campbell fan, that would be retarded...

[colkurtz]

The WP and JLC just ran another article on the draft. He's saying the same as yesterday - just a different way:

Orkapo - DE/LB or Maugala at LB. He picks Orkapo.

I tend to agree with him here. Orkapo immediately fills the OLB hole which I think the team has done absolutely nothing about in FA; that is except running a "Blades is the future" article out of their propaganda machine.

Orkapo can start at OLB and then move in to fill in after Daniels leaves at DE.

I still think the OLB slot is the draft position for us at #13. For the OL crowd the problem is that many of the best will be gone by #13. I also don't see a trade down happening.

QB to me is just a real long-shot, but you just don't know with Snyder. I see that as our choice next year.

[silverspring]

The WP and JLC just ran another article on the draft. He's saying the same as yesterday - just a different way:

Orkapo - DE/LB or Maugala at LB. He picks Orkapo.

I tend to agree with him here. Orkapo immediately fills the OLB hole which I think the team has done absolutely nothing about in FA; that is except running a "Blades is the future" article out of their propaganda machine.

Orkapo can start at OLB and then move in to fill in after Daniels leaves at DE.

I still think the OLB slot is the draft position for us at #13. For the OL crowd the problem is that many of the best will be gone by #13. I also don't see a trade down happening.

QB to me is just a real long-shot, but you just don't know with Snyder. I see that as our choice next year.


I hope we don't pick any of these linebackers. Orkapo screams bust and it seems like the usc linebackers were all using and there is no way their whole linebacker unit should all be 1st rounders. Mathews and Cushing made ray look good and likewise, i doubt any of them look so good in the nfl.

[colkurtz]

I hope we don't pick any of these linebackers. Orkapo screams bust and it seems like the usc linebackers were all using and there is no way their whole linebacker unit should all be 1st rounders. Mathews and Cushing made ray look good and likewise, i doubt any of them look so good in the nfl.

You're not rooting for Sanchez are you? That is a bust, and we have to use this and next year's draft picks to get him!

[silverspring]

You're not rooting for Sanchez are you? That is a bust, and we have to use this and next year's draft picks to get him!

Nah, I would prefer a tackle if available or alex mack or alex mack in a trade down scenario. I am open to a DE, but i want a big bull rushing LDE not one of these tweener speed guys. I am really pulling for a trade down. If we got sanchez at 13 i wouldn't be completely offended, but trading up for a unrpoven qb seems like a big mistake especially because we don't have the ammo to do so.

I am getting pretty nervous that we are going to do something ridiculous, i won't have access to the internet saturday so at least i got that going for me.

[colkurtz]

we have 22 pages of comments in the Sanchez thread, YET only three people have voted for a QB for this draft?

Are the three QB voters Snyder, Vinny and Pioli? :)

[NCskinsfanatic]

You're not rooting for Sanchez are you? That is a bust, and we have to use this and next year's draft picks to get him!

I'd also like to point out that Snyder was enamored with Joey Harrington as the next great QB that could save the franchise...hows his career working out?

[colkurtz]

Nah, I would prefer a tackle if available or alex mack or alex mack in a trade down scenario. I am open to a DE, but i want a big bull rushing LDE not one of these tweener speed guys. I am really pulling for a trade down. If we got sanchez at 13 i wouldn't be completely offended, but trading up for a unrpoven qb seems like a big mistake especially because we don't have the ammo to do so.

I am getting pretty nervous that we are going to do something ridiculous, i won't have access to the internet saturday so at least i got that going for me.

I'd go for a starter at the OL, but I just think many of the best OT draft picks will go higher. OLB is an important spot in Blache's defense, which is why I thought they may draft there. A real DE is wasted in the GW/ Blache defense since there job is to prevent the run.

I just don't see Sanchez dropping to #13. If he did we could trade down and try to build an OL with two good picks.

[silverspring]

I'd go for a starter at the OL, but I just think many of the best OT draft picks will go higher. OLB is an important spot in Blache's defense, which is why I thought they may draft there. A real DE is wasted in the GW/ Blache defense since there job is to prevent the run.

I just don't see Sanchez dropping to #13. If he did we could trade down and try to build an OL with two good picks.

I really don't like the linebackers at 13 in this draft.

It isn't my top choice, but i don't think a DE would be a wasted pick. Everyone needs to stop assuming Blache's scheme last year will be the same this year. He has a major shift in personnel this year. It would have been suicide to heavily blitz our ends last year with no push at all in the middle.

[akhhorus]

I really don't like the linebackers at 13 in this draft.

It isn't my top choice, but i don't think a DE would be a wasted pick. Everyone needs to stop assuming Blache's scheme last year will be the same this year. He has a major shift in personnel this year. It would have been suicide to heavily blitz our ends last year with no push at all in the middle.

Huh? We had two pass rushing ends and Blache was right to reign them in? So, we didn't get much run stopping from the Dline anyways only we wasted Taylor and Carter's pass rush abilities on top of it. Genius! If this was true, Blache shouldn't just be fired, but also be framed for a hobo murder.

Adding Haynesworth will change the Dline calls, but this just enables Blache to blitz much less. With Wynn/Daniels filling space on the field, the defense won't change much.

[shally]

Huh? We had two pass rushing ends and Blache was right to reign them in? So, we didn't get much run stopping from the Dline anyways only we wasted Taylor and Carter's pass rush abilities on top of it. Genius!

Adding Haynesworth will change the Dline calls, but this just enables Blache to blitz much less. With Wynn/Daniels filling space on the field, the defense won't change much.

it might change a little if:

moore can play FS allowing landry to play in the box and blitz

we actually get a LB who can blitz from his position and not get hung up on every tight end or rb put in his way

we have a DT who occupies more than 1 blocker and pushes the pocket in (AH better do that for his gazillion dollars)

blache FINALLY turns reed doughty loose onthe offenses of the nfl ..............................................:rol leyes:

seriously, i am looking forward to the LAST year of Blache's reign of terror on our own DL players...

[skinsfan36]

it might change a little if:

moore can play FS allowing landry to play in the box and blitz

we actually get a LB who can blitz from his position and not get hung up on every tight end or rb put in his way

we have a DT who occupies more than 1 blocker and pushes the pocket in (AH better do that for his gazillion dollars)

blache FINALLY turns reed doughty loose onthe offenses of the nfl ..............................................:rol leyes:

seriously, i am looking forward to the LAST year of Blache's reign of terror on our own DL players...
teams must take a blocking tight end to combat this beast lmao

[shally]

teams must take a blocking tight end to combat this beast lmao

yes.. he is singlehandedly able to warp every offense we face... kinda like ed reed...lol

[silverspring]

Huh? We had two pass rushing ends and Blache was right to reign them in? So, we didn't get much run stopping from the Dline anyways only we wasted Taylor and Carter's pass rush abilities on top of it. Genius! If this was true, Blache shouldn't just be fired, but also be framed for a hobo murder.

You have made it very clear that this is your point of view

The answer of course is yes. Griffin is the only guy that could push the pocket but he hasn't been healthy in years. You can keep pretending that blitzing when you have no pressure in the middle won't completely expose your defense if you want. As I have stated many times before I think blache did quite well with the personnel he was given.


Adding Haynesworth will change the Dline calls, but this just enables Blache to blitz much less. With Wynn/Daniels filling space on the field, the defense won't change much.

Haynesworth changes everything. He collapses the pocket and will allow the rest of the line a lot more freedom. Blache will now have the flexibility to do whatever he wants and I look forward to seeing if blache is a one trick pony as you claim or a dynamic coordinator when given the personnel.

#4 defense according to the nfl, maybe this is arguable but certainly a top 10 defense. Yet, I wonder if even one of our dlinement could have claimed a starting spot on any of the other top 5 defenses in this league. Yet you whine endlessly about it.

Consider for a minute the enormous double standard you set. You are one of the biggest excuse makers for campbell. Poor JC he has no line, poor jc he has no receivers, poor jc moss isn't in tune with him, etc. Maybe these are all valid points. If JC's problem is that he doesn't have the personnel around him to effectively lead this team, I would argue and you should acknowledge blache had a similar situation. He didn't have one linemen that could get any pressure in the middle so he couldn't pressure the qb much, but unlike jc he was able to compensate and put a competitive defense on the field. Maybe it wasn't flashy but it was competitive. You are also the chief excuse maker for Taylor. It was blache's fault he didn't use him correctly. Well first of all Blache needed a LDE and he was given a tweener RDE who was out of shape. It wasn't blache's fault taylor got hurt and between dealing with his multiple injuries and being out of shape he only looked like the Jason Taylor of the past for a couple games. And even then Taylor never drew a double team, heck he was only slightly disruptive in the rare occasions blache did give him freedom. So don't act like blache had the tools. He had nothing but a decent defensive backfield and he put a good defense on the field.

I am sure you will reply with your standard 50 conveniently quoted sections to attack, but really just consider another point of view. Our defense was 6th in points allowed even with our crappy offense, I can't see the negative in that. No one is saying they can't improve, but you act like they were utter crap.

So yes I wouldn't be against drafting a DE, although even without one I think blache will have the opportunity to put a more aggressive defense on the field.

[akhhorus]

None of this has anything to actually do with what I said. I guess you were unable to actually respond?

You have made it very clear that this is your point of view

The answer of course is yes. Griffin is the only guy that could push the pocket but he hasn't been healthy in years. You can keep pretending that blitzing when you have no pressure in the middle won't completely expose your defense if you want. As I have stated many times before I think blache did quite well with the personnel he was given.


I agree that you need a push from the middle, but the Dts could hold the point and Blache didn't do what 99.9% of dcs would have done and used his ends to generate pressure. But you're happy that Blache basically strangled a defense for no reason and when they really needed a stop, they couldn't make it. And you're satisfied with that? Really?


Haynesworth changes everything. He collapses the pocket and will allow the rest of the line a lot more freedom. Blache will now have the flexibility to do whatever he wants and I look forward to seeing if blache is a one trick pony as you claim or a dynamic coordinator when given the personnel.


He's never been a dynamic or aggressive coordinator throughout his career, Haynesworth or not, this won't change. He's had great DTs in his defenses and he still coaches like a coward.

#4 defense according to the nfl, maybe this is arguable but certainly a top 10 defense. Yet, I wonder if even one of our dlinement could have claimed a starting spot on any of the other top 5 defenses in this league. Yet you whine endlessly about it.


Silly me holding the defense accountable. Do you want to go back over how many bad offenses were able to either hold the ball for long drives or make late scores to win/tie/clinch victory against this "great" defense?

Consider for a minute the enormous double standard you set.

Hilarious. You want to do nothing but bitch and moan about the FO but slurp Blache at every chance(nevermind your blatant hypocritical positions you've stated), and you have the gall to accuse me of having double standards?

You are one of the biggest excuse makers for campbell.

Wow. Pointing out that JC looked good when Samuels was healthy and the line was solid and struggled when they didn't is "excuse making" to you? Do you even bother to think before you write?

Poor JC he has no line, poor jc he has no receivers, poor jc moss isn't in tune with him, etc. Maybe these are all valid points.

Yes, I should just do what you do and use blind faith and inconsistent positions on issues lol

If JC's problem is that he doesn't have the personnel around him to effectively lead this team, I would argue and you should acknowledge blache had a similar situation.

Blache had:
9 players picked in the first 2 rounds of the draft
4 former top ten picks
1 defensive player of the year
5 previous pro bowlers(6, Fletcher should have made it)

And he had "personnel" issues? Really?

He didn't have one linemen that could get any pressure in the middle so he couldn't pressure the qb much

Again: 99.9% of DCs would compensate by unleashing his 2 pass rushing DEs to ease the blockers on the inside.

, but unlike jc he was able to compensate and put a competitive defense on the field. Maybe it wasn't flashy but it was competitive.

1-So, JC is responsible for the offensive coaching now? And JC is expected to make up for the loss of a hall of fame player protecting his blind side? And fixing the same problems as the coordinators are supposed to? Did you think before you wrote again?
2-You can make up any fiction you want about how good the defense was, the defense I saw let the Rams(and too many other bad offenses) push them around(and they didn't do that much last year).

You are also the chief excuse maker for Taylor. It was blache's fault he didn't use him correctly. Well first of all Blache needed a LDE and he was given a tweener RDE who was out of shape. It wasn't blache's fault taylor got hurt and between dealing with his multiple injuries and being out of shape he only looked like the Jason Taylor of the past for a couple games. And even then Taylor never drew a double team, heck he was only slightly disruptive in the rare occasions blache did give him freedom. So don't act like blache had the tools. He had nothing but a decent defensive backfield and he put a good defense on the field.


It is Blache's fault for yanking him from games for no apparent reason(we know Blache yanks players for not doing exactly what he wants, its not a stretch to assume thats why he was pulling Taylor). It is Blache's fault that he only let him do his job twice all throughout the year(yes, he was hurt throughout it). Taylor, when they let him get up the field and healthy, was disruptive. That is a fact. Blache never let him do that consistently(fact), and there's just no defending that move on the coach's part(fact). If you have a pass rushing DE and need a pass rush(or need to compensate for bad Dts), you unleash the pass rusher(s).

I am sure you will reply with your standard 50 conveniently quoted sections to attack, but really just consider another point of view.

You have no right to complain about this after throwing so many different points/opinions in your last paragraph. I'll consider any point of view that uses facts and reasoning. I have yet to see you ever do that here.

Our defense was 6th in points allowed even with our crappy offense, I can't see the negative in that. No one is saying they can't improve, but you act like they were utter crap.


Any defense that gives up so many late scores to bad offenses cannot be considered a good defense.

So yes I wouldn't be against drafting a DE, although even without one I think blache will have the opportunity to put a more aggressive defense on the field.

Keep dreaming Cinderella.

[silverspring]

None of this has anything to actually do with what I said. I guess you were unable to actually respond?

Huh?



I agree that you need a push from the middle, but the Dts could hold the point and Blache didn't do what 99.9% of dcs would have done and used his ends to generate pressure. But you're happy that Blache basically strangled a defense for no reason and when they really needed a stop, they couldn't make it. And you're satisfied with that? Really?

With our weak middle and lightweight line offenses can just attack the edges, so blache had to play the run on the edges.

No I wouldn't considered a #4 defense strangled. Sure they didn't get enough sacks for your fantasy team but the scoreboard is what counts.



He's never been a dynamic or aggressive coordinator throughout his career, Haynesworth or not, this won't change. He's had great DTs in his defenses and he still coaches like a coward.

Maybe not I look forward to finding out. I seem to recall that he ran a pretty aggressive defense in williams first year here.
Last year was his first year running a defense, he gave our team the chance to win games.


Silly me holding the defense accountable. Do you want to go back over how many bad offenses were able to either hold the ball for long drives or make late scores to win/tie/clinch victory against this "great" defense?

You like to choose stats selectively. If these are valid then so is #6 in points allowed. And why would you be surprised that our defense allows long drives at the end of games when the offense has kept them on the field all game long. Sure some blame falls on the defense, but very little compared to our offense. I will say it again, our defense almost always did enough to put our offense in the position to win games.




Hilarious. You want to do nothing but bitch and moan about the FO but slurp Blache at every chance(nevermind your blatant hypocritical positions you've stated), and you have the gall to accuse me of having double standards?

So when you have no response you just make random accusations?

I believe stated very clear and reasonable points.

Wow. Pointing out that JC looked good when Samuels was healthy and the line was solid and struggled when they didn't is "excuse making" to you? Do you even bother to think before you write?

I clearly stated that these positions might be valid and the whole point of the argument was that if JC has valid excuses in not having quality personnel then the same excuses should hold water for blache's lack of sacks.



Yes, I should just do what you do and use blind faith and inconsistent positions on issues lol

This helps



Blache had:
9 players picked in the first 2 rounds of the draft
4 former top ten picks
1 defensive player of the year
5 previous pro bowlers(6, Fletcher should have made it)

And he had "personnel" issues? Really?

If you really believe this then you are delusional.
Deion Sanders had some pro-bowls too but did that make him a superstar as a skin?

We had a solid backfield which blache actually schemed for we had very little other than London Fletcher.
Did Marcus Washington even count as a player?
Rocky was pretty average if that which you often acknowledged.
Who else? Golston who you trashed any chance you could? Or Broken down griffin? Or I am sorry were you a big supporter of Evans and lorenzo alexander?
Jason Taylor was useless. He was hurt half the year. When he wasn't hurt he was either out of shape or unable to do anything on the left side. But keep making excuses.
You make me laugh.

We could say the same of Jason Campbell. Between Samuels, Rabach, Jansen, Thomas, etc he had an all star line. Pro bowl receivers like Moss and Cooley. Oh my fault, do you have a different standard for JC, do pro-bowlers from years ago not count for him?

I know these words aren't in your vocabulary, but you are wrong.

Again: 99.9% of DCs would compensate by unleashing his 2 pass rushing DEs to ease the blockers on the inside.

But Jason Taylor can't play LDE. Evans was more successful then him.
My guess is 99.9% of DCs don't have a defense that is #6th in points given up.


1-So, JC is responsible for the offensive coaching now? And JC is expected to make up for the loss of a hall of fame player protecting his blind side? And fixing the same problems as the coordinators are supposed to? Did you think before you wrote again?

Awww pooor jc does he need some milk and cookies? It is ok for you to make excuses for JC but blache doesn't get any?
Like he has no linemen that would start on top defenses in the league whether healthy or not.



2-You can make up any fiction you want about how good the defense was, the defense I saw let the Rams(and too many other bad offenses) push them around(and they didn't do that much last year).

I made it very clear that this defense can improve, but they were without question one of the better defenses in the league. You can question Blache's coaching all you want, but the real football professionals regard him as a decent coach and by the league's standards he put a well above average team on the field.



It is Blache's fault for yanking him from games for no apparent reason(we know Blache yanks players for not doing exactly what he wants, its not a stretch to assume thats why he was pulling Taylor). It is Blache's fault that he only let him do his job twice all throughout the year(yes, he was hurt throughout it). Taylor, when they let him get up the field and healthy, was disruptive. That is a fact. Blache never let him do that consistently(fact), and there's just no defending that move on the coach's part(fact). If you have a pass rushing DE and need a pass rush(or need to compensate for bad Dts), you unleash the pass rusher(s).


Taylor had a couple games where he was a little disruptive, but he still wasn't drawing a double team. Acknowledge that fact.
Taylor for all his previous stats and great play did nothing here. He came here on his own free will knowing he would play LDE. He failed. If you want to make the excuse that he was hurt all season, then fine so be it, but acknowledge that he did very little to help this team.

You have no right to complain about this after throwing so many different points/opinions in your last paragraph. I'll consider any point of view that uses facts and reasoning. I have yet to see you ever do that here.



Any defense that gives up so many late scores to bad offense cannot be considered a good defense.

I could just as easily say how about the offense put a team away for once and get up more than 7 points. How about some more long drives from our offense that actually end with a score.

Look, the stats are plain and over a course of a season are very valid. Without question our extremely low sack numbers are troublesome. But I am a lot less troubled about this fact when you consider that this simply wasn't blache's strategy. It looked bad according to our skewed viewpoints these days that seem more based on fantasy stats then the scoreboard, but it wasn't the end of the world. Now maybe you don't like this strategy but that doesn't mean it didn't work. It did work. We were ranked the #4 defense in yards per game and we were the #6th defense in points scored on(the most important stat). Maybe that isn't enough to call great but how you can claim our defense wasn't good is disingenuous.



Keep dreaming Cinderella.

Hey you never know. I fully have high hopes that our defense will be improve this season and I hope to see blache use the personnel he now has to elevate this team.

[akhhorus]

Huh?

Exactly. Nothing you said in your last post made any sense as a response to what I said previously except that you're just lashing out because someone dared to question your crap..again.

With our weak middle and lightweight line offenses can just attack the edges, so blache had to play the run on the edges.

Then he should have told Vinny not to deal for Taylor when Daniels went down. As soon as he got him, not using him properly is criminal. This is like using a hammer as a screwdriver, then complaining about how it doesn't work well as a screwdriver.

No I wouldn't considered a #4 defense strangled. Sure they didn't get enough sacks for your fantasy team but the scoreboard is what counts.


Yawn. Apparently, you can't respond to what I wrote. This is getting quite pathetic on your part.

Maybe not I look forward to finding out. I seem to recall that he ran a pretty aggressive defense in williams first year here.
Last year was his first year running a defense, he gave our team the chance to win games.

That was Williams. Williams ran a 46, which is what he's always run. We switched over to playing more cover-2, which is what Blache has always run. Blache always has coached a soft cover-2. I don't see why this will suddenly change. He did the same thing when he had Ted Washington and Traylor in Chicago.

You like to choose stats selectively. If these are valid then so is #6 in points allowed.

Except that the points allowed stat is crap. They throw in every point let up by the entire team: special teams, defensive TDs, safeties, etc etc. The skins didn't have much of those(maybe 1 TD given up), so the "scoring defense" looked better than defenses who gave up less defensive points. Look at Minnesota's defense as compared to the skins' last year for an example. We gave up 18.5 ppg, Minny 20.8. Yet they gave up 3 less touchdowns to opposing offenses than the skins did(they gave up 9 non-offensive TDs). Are you going to say that the skins had a better scoring defense than then Vikings did?

And why would you be surprised that our defense allows long drives at the end of games when the offense has kept them on the field all game long. Sure some blame falls on the defense, but very little compared to our offense. I will say it again, our defense almost always did enough to put our offense in the position to win games.


Even when our offenses did their jobs late in games, the defense still blew it. Rams game, San Fran immediately come to mind. I know I listed about 5-6 games right after the season where the defense didn't do their job and cost the skins the games.

So when you have no response you just make random accusations?

My accusation wasn't random or because I couldn't respond to your point. I did. You just didn't like it.

I believe stated very clear and reasonable points.

LMAO.

I clearly stated that these positions might be valid and the whole point of the argument was that if JC has valid excuses in not having quality personnel then the same excuses should hold water for blache's lack of sacks.

Except that Blache had the talent for a pass rush. He coached his team to choke the life out of that area of the defense. The parallel situation would be Jason Campbell audibling to deep passes, then throwing the ball out of bounds short every time.

This helps

The truth hurts, eh?

If you really believe this then you are delusional.

The defense had holes in 08, but he clearly didn't have "personnel" issues.

Deion Sanders had some pro-bowls too but did that make him a superstar as a skin?

Deion was clearly losing it by 2000, and didn't deserve many of his later pro bowls. The defensive pro bowlers the skins had in 2008 weren't all washed up like him. And this isn't the issue. You want to claim that Blache had talent issues when anyone who's being intellectually honest(something you're apparently totally incapable of) would laugh at that.

We had a solid backfield which blache actually schemed for we had very little other than London Fletcher.
Did Marcus Washington even count as a player?
Rocky was pretty average if that which you often acknowledged.
Who else? Golston who you trashed any chance you could? Or Broken down griffin? Or I am sorry were you a big supporter of Evans and lorenzo alexander?
Jason Taylor was useless. He was hurt half the year. When he wasn't hurt he was either out of shape or unable to do anything on the left side. But keep making excuses.
You make me laugh.


And he still had two DEs who combined for 21.5 sacks the year before, a very good MLB and a great deep secondary. And with that set up, Blache decided to run a soft cover-2 defense that didn't have the ends or secondary attack. There is no defending that move, it makes zero sense. Oh wait, thats the offense's fault right?

We could say the same of Jason Campbell. Between Samuels, Rabach, Jansen, Thomas, etc he had an all star line. Pro bowl receivers like Moss and Cooley. Oh my fault, do you have a different standard for JC, do pro-bowlers from years ago not count for him?


The offense had 4 pro bowlers(Samuels, Cooley, Moss and Portis). One of whom was hurt half the year. So, if you were going to be honest(I won't hold my breath on that ever happening), you would have to agree that the offense had greater talent issues than the defense did.

I know these words aren't in your vocabulary, but you are wrong.

Lmao

But Jason Taylor can't play LDE. Evans was more successful then him.
My guess is 99.9% of DCs don't have a defense that is #6th in points given up.


I've been over that points stat and Taylor played both sides. Nevermind that you're tap dancing again.

Awww pooor jc does he need some milk and cookies? It is ok for you to make excuses for JC but blache doesn't get any?

Yawn. Are you just incapable of making a relevant response?

Like he has no linemen that would start on top defenses in the league whether healthy or not.


And Moss, Jansen, Heyer, ARE, etc would be starters on top offenses?

I made it very clear that this defense can improve, but they were without question one of the better defenses in the league.

You're either totally delusional, a sycophant for Blache or have a long term Meth problem.

You can question Blache's coaching all you want, but the real football professionals regard him as a decent coach and by the league's standards he put a well above average team on the field.


You can believe whatever nonsense you want, but Blache coaches a defense that teams figured out how to beat two years ago and even Tampa and Indy are starting to get out of. This is why teams can beat it without much effort at times. Blache might be a decent coach, but he's a terrible coordinator and coaching scared.

Taylor had a couple games where he was a little disruptive, but he still wasn't drawing a double team. Acknowledge that fact.

Except that he was drawing double teams.

Taylor for all his previous stats and great play did nothing here. He came here on his own free will knowing he would play LDE. He failed. If you want to make the excuse that he was hurt all season, then fine so be it, but acknowledge that he did very little to help this team.

Yet again. You're incapable of discussing what I actually wrote. I'm going to start deleting when you try to change the subject.

I could just as easily say how about the offense put a team away for once and get up more than 7 points. How about some more long drives from our offense that actually end with a score.

Again. Even when our offense did their job, the defense wouldn't do theirs.

Look, the stats are plain and over a course of a season are very valid.

Except when they're counting stats that the defense has nothing to do with.

Without question our extremely low sack numbers are troublesome. But I am a lot less troubled about this fact when you consider that this simply wasn't blache's strategy.

Sack numbers aren't the only stat I'm looking at. I'm looking at the totality of the stats and the situational play. If Blache's strategy was to try and gum people to death, he accomplished that, but he ended up with a bad defense.

It looked bad according to our skewed viewpoints these days that seem more based on fantasy stats then the scoreboard, but it wasn't the end of the world.

You keep bringing up "fantasy" stats when they're irrelevant here.

Now maybe you don't like this strategy but that doesn't mean it didn't work. It did work. We were ranked the #4 defense in yards per game and we were the #6th defense in points scored on(the most important stat). Maybe that isn't enough to call great but how you can claim our defense wasn't good is disingenuous.


I've been over why the points stat is a bad stat. It was not a good defense. I'm not trying to absolve the offense of anything they did or did not do, but the defense didn't do their job last year either.

Hey you never know. I fully have high hopes that our defense will be improve this season and I hope to see blache use the personnel he now has to elevate this team.

His track record not only doesn't support your delusional hopes, but indicates that the opposite will happen.

If you want to continue this, do it via PM. I'm not going to respond to you again in this thread.

[silverspring]

Exactly. Nothing you said in your last post made any sense as a response to what I said previously except that you're just lashing out because someone dared to question your crap..again.

I would point out the opposite, you refuse to acknowledge another point of view that has some substance. Apparently I am not the only person that believes our defense was decent, in fact the nfl says we were #4



Then he should have told Vinny not to deal for Taylor when Daniels went down. As soon as he got him, not using him properly is criminal. This is like using a hammer as a screwdriver, then complaining about how it doesn't work well as a screwdriver.

So you think they actually listened to Blache? I agree it was like putting a square peg in a round hole, makes no sense at all and that is just one of the reasons why it was a horrible move.


Yawn. Apparently, you can't respond to what I wrote. This is getting quite pathetic on your part.

I am not sure what i am not responding too?



That was Williams. Williams ran a 46, which is what he's always run. We switched over to playing more cover-2, which is what Blache has always run. Blache always has coached a soft cover-2. I don't see why this will suddenly change. He did the same thing when he had Ted Washington and Traylor in Chicago.

blache was part of that defense. In chicago blache actually had some very high sack numbers. Blache doesn't have the most aggressive coaching style but you are incorrect if you believe he always coaches non-aggressive style defenses

During his tenure, Blache's defenses forced 138 turnovers, including 37 in 2001, the most by a Bears defense since 1990, and accounted for 13 touchdowns (two in 1999, four in 2000, five in 2001, one in 2002, and one in 2003).

In 2002, Blache dealt with numerous injuries, leading to 11 different starting line-ups over the course of 16 games. While juggling personnel, the Bears defense continued with their attacking, aggressive style that set records during the 2001 season.

They forced 64 tackles behind the line of scrimmage and reached a league plateau by forcing at least one turnover in 33 consecutive games, the second longest active streak in the NFL at the time.

In 2001, Blache molded the Bears defense into one of the top units in the league, producing the top-ranked scoring defense by allowing only 203 points in 16 games (12.7 points per game). His run defense finished second in the NFL and first in the NFC, allowing just 82.1 yards per game, while allowing only three rushes of 20 yards or more all seasons and only six rushing touchdowns.


He hung his defensive backs out to dry because he trusted that as a strength of his defense.



Except that the points allowed stat is crap. They throw in every point let up by the entire team: special teams, defensive TDs, safeties, etc etc. The skins didn't have much of those(maybe 1 TD given up), so the "scoring defense" looked better than defenses who gave up less defensive points. Look at Minnesota's defense as compared to the skins' last year for an example. We gave up 18.5 ppg, Minny 20.8. Yet they gave up 3 less touchdowns to opposing offenses than the skins did(they gave up 9 non-offensive TDs). Are you going to say that the skins had a better scoring defense than then Vikings did?

I don't know all the details on minnesota but i agree that they were a good defense and according to this stat you are suggesting that they were just a bit better then us. If so then that still makes us a top ten defense.


Even when our offenses did their jobs late in games, the defense still blew it. Rams game, San Fran immediately come to mind. I know I listed about 5-6 games right after the season where the defense didn't do their job and cost the skins the games.

Over the course of the season our defense almost always gave the offense the chance to win.

Look you are straight up wrong if you are saying our offense did the job but our defense didn't. Our offense was 28th in the league in scoring. They scored a meager 16.6 points a game. I am sorry but you are plain wrong. The defense holds some fault no doubt but the offense was horrendous.

In this league you need to score 20+ points a game if you expect to win period.



My accusation wasn't random or because I couldn't respond to your point. I did. You just didn't like it.

True i didn't i would rather you respond to the content.



LMAO.

See above


Except that Blache had the talent for a pass rush. He coached his team to choke the life out of that area of the defense. The parallel situation would be Jason Campbell audibling to deep passes, then throwing the ball out of bounds short every time.

This is where we differ. What talent did blache have? Taylor was injured for most of the year. When he wasn't he did very little. Carter is average. Are you saying evans is a great pass rusher? Who? Golston?

Campbell had below average talent around him whether it was related to injury or just plain skill, I contend that blache also had below average talent on our defensive line.



The defense had holes in 08, but he clearly didn't have "personnel" issues.

Right then tell me do you think we had a good starting strongside linebacker?

Tell me, which tackles on our 2008 defense would have started for another team that had a top 5 defense last year?


Deion was clearly losing it by 2000, and didn't deserve many of his later pro bowls. The defensive pro bowlers the skins had in 2008 weren't all washed up like him. And this isn't the issue. You want to claim that Blache had talent issues when anyone who's being intellectually honest(something you're apparently totally incapable of) would laugh at that.

Right griffin wasn't washed up? Marcus Washington wasn't washed up? Jason Taylor played like a pro bowler?

I am being quite honest. You need to stop pretending jason taylor is some amazing talent, he WAS a great talent. He NEVER was a great talent at LDE.

But seriously tell me who was so very talented on blache's defense in front of fletcher last year?


And he still had two DEs who combined for 21.5 sacks the year before, a very good MLB and a great deep secondary. And with that set up, Blache decided to run a soft cover-2 defense that didn't have the ends or secondary attack. There is no defending that move, it makes zero sense. Oh wait, thats the offense's fault right?

We were a lot healthier. He couldn't let the secondary attack because he was hanging them out to dry in the backfield because he had to buy time for his front 7. It was a prevent defense, it wasn't pretty to watch but it put is in a good position to win games.



The offense had 4 pro bowlers(Samuels, Cooley, Moss and Portis). One of whom was hurt half the year. So, if you were going to be honest(I won't hold my breath on that ever happening), you would have to agree that the offense had greater talent issues than the defense did.

It is like you don't read what i write. My whole point is that the offense and defense were comparable in the fact that they had personnel issues. It doesn't matter whether it was because the players were old and worn down(griffin, washington, jansen, rabach) or they were hurt(samuels, taylor) or they just weren't great talent (evans, golston, montgomery, alexander).

The point is both sides of the football had significant issues. The difference is that blache still managed to put up a competive defense, #6th in points, #4th in yards per game. While the offense was 19th in yards per game and 28th in points.

The point being that even though it wasn't pretty, blache still figured out how to squeeze the juice out of his unit.


Lmao

Cmon Akh say it out loud, "Sometimes I am wrong" or try this one "Other people have valid points of view"




I've been over that points stat and Taylor played both sides. Nevermind that you're tap dancing again.


As have i

Yawn. Are you just incapable of making a relevant response?

Make a valid point and you will receive one

And Moss, Jansen, Heyer, ARE, etc would be starters on top offenses?

Probably not, that is exactly my point. Blache took guys that wouldn't be starters on another good defense and made them starters on a good defense.




You're either totally delusional, a sycophant for Blache or have a long term Meth problem.

Listen you can take all the cheap shots at me you want but please keep my drug habits out of the conversation :)



You can believe whatever nonsense you want, but Blache coaches a defense that teams figured out how to beat two years ago and even Tampa and Indy are starting to get out of. This is why teams can beat it without much effort at times. Blache might be a decent coach, but he's a terrible coordinator and coaching scared.

Maybe so, but I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. He did a decent job with what he had.



Except that he was drawing double teams.

Yeah akh after that many shots of bourbon everyone looked like they were drawing double teams



Yet again. You're incapable of discussing what I actually wrote. I'm going to start deleting when you try to change the subject.

Please just stop responding



Again. Even when our offense did their job, the defense wouldn't do theirs.

Right being the #28th in points scored equated to the offense doing their job. You can't be serious.



Except when they're counting stats that the defense has nothing to do with.

Like what?


Sack numbers aren't the only stat I'm looking at. I'm looking at the totality of the stats and the situational play. If Blache's strategy was to try and gum people to death, he accomplished that, but he ended up with a bad defense.


I think his strategy is exactly that. Strangle the offense and make them make mistakes. Very unexciting but surprisingly effective as a whole. Sure there were breakdowns, but every team has them and generally the defense was well above average.


You keep bringing up "fantasy" stats when they're irrelevant here.

I do so because you are so focused on how aggressive the defense is. Personally, i could care less if they prevent the opposing offense from scoring 20 points they did a decent job in my book



I've been over why the points stat is a bad stat. It was not a good defense. I'm not trying to absolve the offense of anything they did or did not do, but the defense didn't do their job last year either.

When you look at yards allowed and points it is hard not to at least consider that the defense was decent. I understand why you think#4 defense is an overrated number, but they were at least a top ten defense.


His track record not only doesn't support your delusional hopes, but indicates that the opposite will happen.

See above

If you want to continue this, do it via PM. I'm not going to respond to you again in this thread.

Great that might save me some carpal tunnel

[redskin_rich]

Multi-quoting redundant, individual sentences = readers going into a coma.

Cut it out, now. Make your point or refute a point as concise as you possibly can and stop with the wankery.

[shally]

Multi-quoting redundant, individual sentences = readers going into a coma.

Cut it out, now. Make your point or refute a point as concise as you possibly can and stop with the wankery.

that was impressive.. i dont even have the computer literacy to do that....lol

[colkurtz]

I forgot what this thread was about there. lol.

So again ppl are not impressed with numerous mediots who say that Snyder may break the draft bank for this season and next because of his fascination with Sanchez.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I bet we trade down. It would just make too much sense to gain more picks with 3 glaring holes in the line up.

[colkurtz]

I bet we trade down. It would just make too much sense to gain more picks with 3 glaring holes in the line up.

A lot of teams want to trade down. I'm more worried about our FO trying to trade UP.

This team has certainly drafted for the flash positions far more times then it has for the trenches. This franchise under Snyder has traded away picks for FA at a much higher rate than any other team in the NFL.

[bergiemoore]

it might change a little if:

moore can play FS allowing landry to play in the box and blitz

we actually get a LB who can blitz from his position and not get hung up on every tight end or rb put in his way

we have a DT who occupies more than 1 blocker and pushes the pocket in (AH better do that for his gazillion dollars)

blache FINALLY turns reed doughty loose onthe offenses of the nfl ..............................................:rol leyes:

seriously, i am looking forward to the LAST year of Blache's reign of terror on our own DL players...

What is this "blitz" of which you speak?

[firehawk157]

What is this "blitz" of which you speak?
I got Greg Blanche on the phone!!! I asked him that very question and here's what he has to say:

Well, I know it's slang for a form of war that the Nazi war machine used in WWII which depended on mechanized infantry and armor to quickly break through enemy defenses. As for what it has to do with football, I haven't the foggiest

[dj_stouty]

A lot of teams want to trade down. I'm more worried about our FO trying to trade UP.

Very true. Now-a-days...Many teams think of a top 10 pick as more of a hinderance than a blessing. Way too much money to invest one a guy who most likely will not meet the billing of his draft spot.

Look at the offer the Pats accepted for Cassel. I'd bet they choose the 2nd rounder over a 1st due to the difference in money; and their FO's ability to get 1st round talent deep into the 2nd round.

But yes; all of this means that the Skins will have a lot of trading partners on Saturday. If they want to move up, they can do so with ease. I guess you could say its a "trade up market". lol

[shally]

What is this "blitz" of which you speak?

something other Def Coordinators seem to have an intimate knowledge of...unlike ours

[shally]

Very true. Now-a-days...Many teams think of a top 10 pick as more of a hinderance than a blessing. Way too much money to invest one a guy who most likely will not meet the billing of his draft spot.

Look at the offer the Pats accepted for Cassel. I'd bet they choose the 2nd rounder over a 1st due to the difference in money; and their FO's ability to get 1st round talent deep into the 2nd round.

But yes; all of this means that the Skins will have a lot of trading partners on Saturday. If they want to move up, they can do so with ease. I guess you could say its a "trade up market". lol

i dont think we have enough draft picks to move up

as for as the Cassel deal, i still think that it smells like a dead skunk..
that was payback or pay forward for something between those 2 teams.
nobody takes less that value for a player and they could have gotten a 1 for him from someone else.. something is rotten in that deal.. anything that belli-cheat and his former F.O. b**** concoct is suspect...

[akhhorus]

I got Greg Blanche on the phone!!! I asked him that very question and here's what he has to say:

Thats funny, I emailed Blache about his blitzing and got this response:

To: Akh@akhcasino.com
From: Blitzingis4commies@hotmail.com

Re: WHY DON'T YOU ********ING BLITZ GREG???

Mr. Akh,

Thanks for your note. One time in the 70s, I called a blitz in a college game and was diagnosed with herpes the very next day. I can't risk further infection. Sorry.

GB

[shally]

Thats funny, I emailed Blache about his blitzing and got this response:


he obviously had gotten confused.. it was all those lap dances he paid for from strippers that caused him that malady, not the blitzing.. the blitzing caused his E.D.

[LATrueRedskin]

Thats funny, I emailed Blache about his blitzing and got this response:

Well, to his defense, that is a good reason not to blitz again. :)

[GoDannyBoy]

I did not see the "trade" Vinny or "fire the front office". It is the one thing with no cap and it is killing us.

At this point I am ready to see what happens. I have been disappointed by Danny to many times.

[colkurtz]

Very true. Now-a-days...Many teams think of a top 10 pick as more of a hinderance than a blessing. Way too much money to invest one a guy who most likely will not meet the billing of his draft spot.

Look at the offer the Pats accepted for Cassel. I'd bet they choose the 2nd rounder over a 1st due to the difference in money; and their FO's ability to get 1st round talent deep into the 2nd round.

But yes; all of this means that the Skins will have a lot of trading partners on Saturday. If they want to move up, they can do so with ease. I guess you could say its a "trade up market". lol

Right on dj.... Obviously if we really are moving UP it will involve 2010 draft picks AND/OR us trading JC to someone like the Jets - then using that draft pick in this trade.

Zorn keeps his job another year to help coach up Sanchez. ALSO, NO major coach of any repute will come here next season with some of our draft picks gone. And using a QB with just 32 college and NFL games.

[colkurtz]

In one or two of these "who should we draft" threads the hR fanbase has been wrong. Mostly that reflects the fickle, eccentric and haphazard way that Snyderrato drafts and also because some of us want to draft for positions that this owner will just never go for (DE for example).

This thread was about who we thought Snyder would draft. Not an easy guy to understand, since he often defies NFL common sense.

[firehawk157]

In one or two of these "who should we draft" threads the hR fanbase has been wrong. Mostly that reflects the fickle, eccentric and haphazard way that Snyderrato drafts and also because some of us want to draft for positions that this owner will just never go for (DE for example).

This thread was about who we thought Snyder would draft. Not an easy guy to understand, since he often defies NFL common sense.
Out of the top-5, it's hard to determine who ANYBODY will draft. I don't think anybody (not even GMs) know for sure because they have to wait to see how things shake out on the top part of the draft.

Last year however, we were all very sure we were going to take a WR, it all signs pointed to Malcolm Kelly. Snyder's draft issue isn't that he's hard to read. I believe our main problem is there's no continuous philosophy with which broad-based growth can be built. We spend 2 years building a team with a vertical passing game and a power running game (Gibbs) and a 46 defense (Williams). Then we switch gears and change to a Saunders timing based offense and a cover-2. Then we switch gears again and switch to a cover-1. Then we switch gears again and go WCO (Zorn) and Blanche's cover-1/cover-2 hybrid. You can't do that in football, you need to spend 3 years in a single system with solid acquisitions for that system. Very few players can succeed in multiple systems.

[dj_stouty]

Out of the top-5, it's hard to determine who ANYBODY will draft. I don't think anybody (not even GMs) know for sure because they have to wait to see how things shake out on the top part of the draft.

Last year however, we were all very sure we were going to take a WR, it all signs pointed to Malcolm Kelly. Snyder's draft issue isn't that he's hard to read. I believe our main problem is there's no continuous philosophy with which broad-based growth can be built. We spend 2 years building a team with a vertical passing game and a power running game (Gibbs) and a 46 defense (Williams). Then we switch gears and change to a Saunders timing based offense and a cover-2. Then we switch gears again and switch to a cover-1. Then we switch gears again and go WCO (Zorn) and Blanche's cover-1/cover-2 hybrid. You can't do that in football, you need to spend 3 years in a single system with solid acquisitions for that system. Very few players can succeed in multiple systems.

Yup, us fans have it all figured out until draft day. There are always major surprises in the first round (Ginn Jr, McGahee...etc) and this year will be no different. That is part of the charm revolving the draft. Its a soap opera for men with drama around every turn. lol

[colkurtz]

This team has had a "backwards to forwards" draft philosophy. For example last year we took 3 WR/TE and not one lineman. I think there has been some good articles which show that teams who draft for DB and WR, etc don't do as well as those that draft for the trenches first.

Certainly our overall record under Snyder shows the true lack of success of this strategy.

Second 'contrary' draft strategy is to trade draft picks for FA. I think one could make the case that the Redskins have led the NFL in that approach. Once again, our overall record and lack of playoff success show that this approach has problems.

BL - This team DOES NOT draft for the lines and favors FA over draft picks. The team has been pretty consistent in that philosophy. The idea that we may go for Sanchez is just a continuation of this strategy. This is Snyder's legacy and part of the reason the ppl of hR land aren't that good at predicting how we will draft. I give us a 40-50% chance of drafting Sanchez, yet only a few percent thought we would do so, even though this thread was updated just a week ago.

[saratogan]

I felt like saying "General Manager" but could not find any scouting reports.

As it has been with every draft in recent times, the Redskins coaches have evaluated their current needs and Coach has indicated his desired needs to Snyder/Cerrato, et al. The team now has a board with over a hundred names on it of players they believe could help the team (quote from Cerato on Comcast Sports). Each round has a certain number of players determined to be of value and attached to that round. If their top choice is available they take him, period. If they have 2 people rated above 13th slot still available, then they have to make a decision. If by slot 11, all the players the Redskins had valued for the 13th pick are gone, they will hoping that phone calls are constantly coming in from other teams looking to trade up and the Skins will pick up extra draft picks.

Overrall, 13th pick is hard one. Depends, obviously on what prior ones do. I would prefer trading the choice for more picks in round two (high up). That said, DE is a glaring need, moreso than OL or OLB (although close).
The old adage - "Defense wins games" is still true.

If the organization has done a careful analysis of its needs, the scouts have effectively evaluated the available talent, I hope the management of the club makes the best decision possible for the team. That is all that I can ask.

[LATrueRedskin]

from PFT:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/23/campbell-planning-his-next-move/

Not surprised. Way to go, Snyder. Way to go.

[redskin_rich]

from PFT:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/23/campbell-planning-his-next-move/

Not surprised. Way to go, Snyder. Way to go.
Hey Jason, Patrick Ramsey on line 1, he wants to be golf buddies.

[akhhorus]

Hey Jason, Patrick Ramsey on line 1, he wants to be golf buddies.

I think there's a Qb support group for those who've dealt with Snyder. Tony Banks is the chairman.

[colkurtz]

Chasing the shiny new QB who may be our answer to the long term franchise winner. Sanchez is our man and Snyder will trade up with 2009/2010 picks to get him.

Although the media posture is to make it a competition between JC and Sanchez; the real answer is that Jason has value now in this draft. So IF you go for Sanchez then the next thing is to trade JC to the Jets. You take that second round pick and get the BPA in the OL.

Sanchez and a second round OL. hmmmmmmmm...................

[LATrueRedskin]

I think there's a Qb support group for those who've dealt with Snyder. Tony Banks is the chairman.

Jeff George is the MC of the meetings.

[skinsfan36]

Jeff George is the MC of the meetings.

lol there is probably a support group of all the coaches who had to deal with that tool. who btw says he can start in this league still

[redskin_rich]

Jeff George is the MC of the meetings.

Actually, Jeff George was the perfect QB under a Snyder run team. Changing coaches, systems, wouldn't have mattered to him. He would just run his own plays anyway. Unfortunately for George, he happened to be here at the one time Snyder relinquished his control, to Marty who was an autocrat.

[colkurtz]

i wonder if we will wait a full season to play even one game with our new franchise QB - if we do draft Sanchez. I never understood the idea to keep Campbell sidelined so long. We are in the fifth season for Jason and really are not sure if he is the one or not?

If we bet the store on Sanchez then you play him a lot in the PS, spend every available draft pick left for the OL, and use any money available to get a good FA here to protect our new QB. After about mid-season you bring Sanchez in and face the wolves of the NFL.

[redskin_rich]

i wonder if we will wait a full season to play even one game with our new franchise QB - if we do draft Sanchez. I never understood the idea to keep Campbell sidelined so long. We are in the fifth season for Jason and really are not sure if he is the one or not?

If we bet the store on Sanchez then you play him a lot in the PS, spend every available draft pick left for the OL, and use any money available to get a good FA here to protect our new QB. After about mid-season you bring Sanchez in and face the wolves of the NFL.
I just wrote something about this in another thread. (http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1215074&postcount=60)
Barring a lengthy holdout, Sanchez starts day 1. Besides the reasons I already mentioned, the season is a write-off anyway, may as well get the rook as many snaps as possible

[SkinsASchamps]

I have been thinking... What are the chances that we do not draft a DE, OLB, or OT in this draft? With our track record of weird drafting I think the possibility is quite high. Even though we have huge holes at those position in our eyes, what does vinnie see? does he really believe that wynn and Daniels can be serious options. Does he think Jansen/Heyer are adequate? Does he think Blades/ Thomas/Wilson can play SAM? I think he may have talked himself into these guys as viable options. IF this is the case.. We are screwed. I am going to laugh out loud when we draft WR first, TE in the 3rd, and a RB, CB, and S late. Gotta love the draft.

[colkurtz]

I just wrote something about this in another thread. (http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1215074&postcount=60)
Barring a lengthy holdout, Sanchez starts day 1. Besides the reasons I already mentioned, the season is a write-off anyway, may as well get the rook as many snaps as possible

+1. Play him from game one. Trade JC for whatever we can get and with that fourth rounder get the BPA for the OL. Get John Runyon from the Eagles - he's got two seasons left in his tank and has fire in his belly.

If you're going to flame out , you might as well do it spectacularly!

[firehawk157]

+1. Play him from game one. Trade JC for whatever we can get and with that fourth rounder get the BPA for the OL. Get John Runyon from the Eagles - he's got two seasons left in his tank and has fire in his belly.

If you're going to flame out , you might as well do it spectacularly!
It is better to burn in the fires of your failures or bask in the glory of your vast accomplishments than to merely exist in the mundane because you fear failure.

[colkurtz]

It is better to burn in the fires of your failures or bask in the glory of your vast accomplishments than to merely exist in the mundane because you fear failure.

Exactly. We don't have enough real play makers on this team.


IF you get a franchise QB, your team is competitive for a decade. Of course, if he's a total failure I don't see how the fan base can dislike and detest our owner any more.

Do we go for Boldin now so we can just skip the draft coverage for the next 2 seasons all together? lol