NFL Network: Jets may want Campbell

[GenMgr]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/Home_NFL.aspx

NFL Network's Steve Wyche reports that there is "chatter" the Jets would try to swing a trade for Jason Campbell on draft day if the Redskins move up to draft Matthew Stafford.

This is pretty much setting the stage for a potential three-team swap. The Skins are already short on picks and would likely have to dip into their 2010 draft class to move up the board. It could potentially also mean throwing Sanchez into the fire, which sounds foolish after only 16 college starts.

[JasonCampbell]

Stafford now? Ugh...the last thing the Redskins need is a team that wants to take Campbell off our hands. That would make moving up much more likely :(

[SkinsfaninNJ]

So much for Sanchez competing with Campbell. I can't get overly excited anymore. I do know anything is possible personnel wise with this team, and no matter what they do, we probably will finish somewhere between 6-10 and 10-6.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Stafford now? Ugh...the last thing the Redskins need is a team that wants to take Campbell off our hands. That would make moving up much more likely :(

I think that was a typo in the report.

[colkurtz]

The Jets aren't fooled by Snyderrato's masterly draft week maneuvers?

I am shocked.

[bigcmr]

Smoke screen

[Redskinmayhem]

What the mother freaking Eff!!!?!?!!?!?

jeez...I'm in knots about the next few days...

[hogs86]

This comes from PFT. If this goes down I just may hand my burgundy and gold card in.:smash:

Sanchez At No. 4 Or No. 8?
Posted by Mike Florio on April 22, 2009, 10:19 p.m.
Though the Rams supposedly are now interested in USC quarterback Mark Sanchez with the second overall pick in the draft, a league source tells us that the current buzz in league circles links the Seahawks to Sanchez at No. 4, or the Jets or Redskins to him at No. 8.

In the latter case, a trade with the Jaguars would be necessary, since they already hold the eighth overall selection.

There’s also a chance that the Chiefs would dangle the third overall pick to the Jets and the Redskins in order to block the Seahawks from getting Sanchez. But, for now, it looks like no one is willing to give up enough to make the move to the top five.

We continue to think that the Seahawks are blowing smoke about Sanchez in order to keep someone from trading up to No. 3 to get tackle Jason Smith, since it’s more important (in our view) that the ‘Hawks replace left tackle Walter Jones than to replace quarterback Matt Hasselbeck.

[shally]

Smoke screen

+1

the jets have already taken one qb off our hands in ramsey... they wont take campbell

[TrueOracle]

as much as I enjoy reading posts on this board, I can assure everyone here that if JC gets traded I'm officially on "fan-hiatus" until Snyder sells this team. Snyderatto evaluating anything football-related is akin to Paris Hilton being an authority on anything class-related; you just can't take them seriously. All are sphincter clowns

[shally]

as much as I enjoy reading posts on this board, I can assure everyone here that if JC gets traded I'm officially on "fan-hiatus" until Snyder sells this team. Snyderatto evaluating anything football-related is akin to Paris Hilton being an authority on anything class-related; you just can't take them seriously. All are sphincter clowns

a lot of us are close to our breaking points...

[MadDog97]

a lot of us are close to our breaking points...

I know I am close to the breaking point. If JC goes to the Jets then Sanchez or Stafford will rue the draft. What if we trade up and both are gone by the time we are there, who is our QB? Colt Brennan?

[shally]

I know I am close to the breaking point. If JC goes to the Jets then Sanchez or Stafford will rue the draft. What if we trade up and both are gone by the time we are there, who is our QB? Colt Brennan?


those kinds of deals are always predicated upon someone specific still being there-- otherwise they void

if both are gone early, it forces us to trade back or actually take a lineman or linebacker with our pick

[bigmike7914]

I know I am close to the breaking point. If JC goes to the Jets then Sanchez or Stafford will rue the draft. What if we trade up and both are gone by the time we are there, who is our QB? Colt Brennan?
I am at the point now where if Jason Campbell is traded l I am officially not a Redskins fan anymore and I have been a skins fan since 1988 I wouldn't root for anyone else but I will burn, sale, or throw all of my redskins gear away it just disgust me on how this franchise is being ran now:devil2::moon1:

[shally]

I am at the point now where if Jason Campbell is traded l I am officially not a Redskins fan anymore and I have been a skins fan since 1988 I wouldn't root for anyone else but I will burn, sale, or throw all of my redskins gear away it just disgust me on how this franchise is being ran now:devil2::moon1:

i am not stuck on any one player.. i have always loved the team first.

i totally agree that the way they have handled the JC situation is classless, and cruel.. still, i have a lot of misgivings about JC the qb, not JC the man.

at some point they need to make a decision on who the long term qb of the redskins will be.. i would say, it appears it wont be campbell based upon all that has transpired.. i dont blame them for trying to upgrade the qb position.. i do find fault inthe way they have gone about it.. and i dont agree with the neglect of other obvious needs--especially if we sell out everything else to fund the qb pickup..

still, let's see what they do this weekend..

[bigcmr]

I wonder if KC is shopping the no.3 pick? Hoping we might bite.

[skinsfan36]

I wonder if KC is shopping the no.3 pick? Hoping we might bite.

they want anyone to bite they covet tyson jackson though so i dont think they want to move past denver.

and i think the jets want sanchez not campbell.

[TrueOracle]

i am not stuck on any one player.. i have always loved the team first.

i totally agree that the way they have handled the JC situation is classless, and cruel.. still, i have a lot of misgivings about JC the qb, not JC the man.

at some point they need to make a decision on who the long term qb of the redskins will be.. i would say, it appears it wont be campbell based upon all that has transpired.. i dont blame them for trying to upgrade the qb position.. i do find fault inthe way they have gone about it.. and i dont agree with the neglect of other obvious needs--especially if we sell out everything else to fund the qb pickup..

still, let's see what they do this weekend..

Shally,

Assuming you like steak, if I prepared it better than anything you could ever dream, you would think I was talented in the steak preparation department. Continuing with this example, assume that right after I prepared the same steak, I decided to dip it in my famed sauce - a vat of swine urine. Am I still talented as a cook in your mind? I'd venture a guess of, "no." Had that steak, minus the urine additive, been served you would've thought differently of me.

This is what Snyderratto is doing - they're spraying all over a fine piece of meat and telling you it's the steak and not their prep. We are literally the laughing stock of the league, save for the Lions.

[redskin_rich]

I wonder if KC is shopping the no.3 pick? Hoping we might bite.
KC is definitely shopping that pick. That pick will cost somebody a ridiculous amount of money and if it doesn't pay dividends, it will cripple the team for the next 4-5 years.

The NFL's number 1 priority should be a fixing the rookie cap, especially in regards to top 10 picks. The whole 1st round needs to be slotted and the bonus money should be limited to and starting at around $5 Mil, for now.

[bigcmr]

KC is definitely shopping that pick. That pick will cost somebody a ridiculous amount of money and if it doesn't pay dividends, it will cripple the team for the next 4-5 years.

The NFL's number 1 priority should be a fixing the rookie cap, especially in regards to top 10 picks. The whole 1st round needs to be slotted and the bonus money should be limited to and starting at around $5 Mil, for now.

I agree with that 110%

[shally]

Shally,

Assuming you like steak, if I prepared it better than anything you could ever dream, you would think I was talented in the steak preparation department. Continuing with this example, assume that right after I prepared the same steak, I decided to dip it in my famed sauce - a vat of swine urine. Am I still talented as a cook in your mind? I'd venture a guess of, "no." Had that steak, minus the piss additive, been served you would've thought differently of me.

This is what Snyderratto is doing - they're pissing all over a fine piece of meat and telling you it's the steak and not their prep. We are literally the laughing stock of the league, save for the Lions.

i dont think our team is steak.. we are lucky to be biting into grade D, back of the horse, shoe leather grade of meat... this is regardless of snyder's secret sauce recipe...lol

and, No, i dont think less of you in any way.. i will wait until after this weekend to send the steak back to the kitchen...:Peace:

KC is definitely shopping that pick. That pick will cost somebody a ridiculous amount of money and if it doesn't pay dividends, it will cripple the team for the next 4-5 years.

The NFL's number 1 priority should be a fixing the rookie cap, especially in regards to top 10 picks. The whole 1st round needs to be slotted and the bonus money should be limited to and starting at around $5 Mil, for now.

AMEN.. this needs to be job 1 once the NFLPA ever gets it's house in order.. they are showing themselves to be a bunch of azzclowns.. it bodes very poorly for the league having anyone to even negotiate with..

[greatest2]

KC is definitely shopping that pick. That pick will cost somebody a ridiculous amount of money and if it doesn't pay dividends, it will cripple the team for the next 4-5 years.

The NFL's number 1 priority should be a fixing the rookie cap, especially in regards to top 10 picks. The whole 1st round needs to be slotted and the bonus money should be limited to and starting at around $5 Mil, for now.

i agree 100 percent.

the good thing is i don't think the NFLPA will put up much of a fight for this. They aren't asking the players to take less money, just to reallocate it to those that earn it. That being said, the NFLPA will make it look like a bigger deal so as to get something in return, just like the NFL moving the probowl from hawaii. not that big a deal but something you can use as a bit of leverage.

[colkurtz]

I'm with Shally. I'm not worried as much about one player as some here.

The cost of Sanchez keeps going up and up. Even a fantasy football player like Snyder realizes that bidding to get from #13 to the top five kills your draft for 2 years. Plus there's some salary cap issues which I don't even claim to understand.

All this talk of Cutler and Sanchez DOES tell me that Snyder and his radio personality friend Vinny don't think JC is our franchise player for the future. However, I now believe that ZORN is of the same opinion. Zorn's future is tied to the success of JC or anyone new that we bring in here at QB.

Zorn wants to let JC go, which means that either this season or next he will be traded.

[Skins3]

now if they said The Lions I might have believed you. But even the Lions without Millen...... It is very hard to believe that anyone would want Campbell. How many people would want Kyle Orton?

:jetsuk:

[Skins3]

I think if this were to happen you would get alot more Eli Mannings out there if there was only a couple million dollar difference between being picked first or picked 7th in Theroy why would anyone want to got 1st to the 0-16 lions compared to 7th Raiders with 5 wins or so.


KC is definitely shopping that pick. That pick will cost somebody a ridiculous amount of money and if it doesn't pay dividends, it will cripple the team for the next 4-5 years.

The NFL's number 1 priority should be a fixing the rookie cap, especially in regards to top 10 picks. The whole 1st round needs to be slotted and the bonus money should be limited to and starting at around $5 Mil, for now.

[firehawk157]

Ugh... I can see it now. JC to the Jets for a third, our 2 thirds and #13 to Jax for #8. With #8, we select Dirty.

The next day we compare Dirty to Ryan and Flacco and start the spin...

[firehawk157]

I think if this were to happen you would get alot more Eli Mannings out there if there was only a couple million dollar difference between being picked first or picked 7th in Theroy why would anyone want to got 1st to the 0-16 lions compared to 7th Raiders with 5 wins or so.
Why would anyone want to go to either? Besides, it's not so much what you want as what you are forced to deal with. If there are more Eli Mannings, the NFL and NFLPA would probably step in.

I know if I was the GM for another Eli Manning, I would just not sign him and let him re-enter the draft where he'll probably get picked in day 2. Let the choice be worth millions.

[skin4ever]

I am at the point now where if Jason Campbell is traded l I am officially not a Redskins fan anymore and I have been a skins fan since 1988 I wouldn't root for anyone else but I will burn, sale, or throw all of my redskins gear away it just disgust me on how this franchise is being ran now:devil2::moon1:

are yall serious???? or just being melodramatic about it. I would hope a skins fan would have a little more fortitude and loyalty to the skins than that. Just my opinion.

[firehawk157]

are yall serious???? or just being melodramatic about it. I would hope a skins fan would have a little more fortitude and loyalty to the skins than that. Just my opinion.
I would hate to see what the Raiders or Lions fanbase is like right now. I mean, it WAS 8-8 after all.

[Redskinmayhem]

are yall serious???? or just being melodramatic about it. I would hope a skins fan would have a little more fortitude and loyalty to the skins than that. Just my opinion.

Obviously, as shally said, the team is above a single player (see Clinton Portis), we're all just pissed, anxious, and our stomachs in knots over the direction Vin/Dan/Co. are taking our beloved team.

[dj_stouty]

are yall serious???? or just being melodramatic about it. I would hope a skins fan would have a little more fortitude and loyalty to the skins than that. Just my opinion.

No kidding!?!?!? I can't believe there is actually a growing number of "fans" who would actually stop being Skins fans if they traded Jason Campbell.

I like the guy too...but I won't cry a tear for him if he is traded; and I sure as hell am not turning in my fan card over him. Geez...

[skin4ever]

Obviously, as shally said, the team is above a single player (see Clinton Portis), we're all just pissed, anxious, and our stomachs in knots over the direction Vin/Dan/Co. are taking our beloved team.

sure. but thats a far cry from if this trade happens, im not a fan anymore. Come on. It might help to jump on the "sure, why not" bandwagon until this ship is righted. (its akin to Kastanza's father's "serenity now") For me, it took the frustration out of the picture. DJ Stouty, you better get the hotline ready come draft day.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

KC is definitely shopping that pick. That pick will cost somebody a ridiculous amount of money and if it doesn't pay dividends, it will cripple the team for the next 4-5 years.

The NFL's number 1 priority should be a fixing the rookie cap, especially in regards to top 10 picks. The whole 1st round needs to be slotted and the bonus money should be limited to and starting at around $5 Mil, for now.

Absolutely. I know no one here cares about the Lions, but if the Lions take Stafford #1 and pay him P. Manning money (as they will have to do), and he busts, the Lions are screwed for another 3-5 years. Not a fair system at all.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

No kidding!?!?!? I can't believe there is actually a growing number of "fans" who would actually stop being Skins fans if they traded Jason Campbell.

I like the guy too...but I won't cry a tear for him if he is traded; and I sure as hell am not turning in my fan card over him. Geez...

I have not been shy about being a Campbell supporter, but even I won't go this far. I think we can win big with Campbell as our QB, and I will be very skeptical of any trade resulting in him being with another team and us having a new QB (especially an unproven rookie).

FWIW, it has become very rare for a team to trade into the top 6 picks. Mike and Mike talked about it this morning. I believe they said it has happened twice since 1997 (not counting the swap of Eli for Rivers, which was a trade of players and not picks). So odds are, we do not trade up as high as it may take to get Sanchez. If Sanchez is still there at 8 though...

[Skins7ny]

I'm with Shally. I'm not worried as much about one player as some here.....
All this talk of Cutler and Sanchez DOES tell me that Snyder and his radio personality friend Vinny don't think JC is our franchise player for the future. However, I now believe that ZORN is of the same opinion. Zorn's future is tied to the success of JC or anyone new that we bring in here at QB.

Zorn wants to let JC go, which means that either this season or next he will be traded.

I don't think it is so much poor treatment of the player (Campbell) that people are up in arms about. I think it is the owner and his lapdog changing their minds YET AGAIN about the player leading the team. I think the fan base is increasingly tired of the owner's incessant window-shopping at other stores. Four years ago we dumped Ramsey and were told that the FO fell in love with Campbell, he is the man. Then this year, Snyder "falls in love" with Cutler, who has similar pedigree and stats in the league and is not even necessarily an upgrade. When he can't get Cutler, and we think (momentarily) that Campbell is safe, Snyder moves on to the next pretty girl in the store, Mark Sanchez. A guy who has 16 starts to his name, and supposedly cannot throw the deep ball. Now we hear that Snyder is in love with him.

Campbell IMO has done nothing to lose the job, and played very well last year with one of the least able supporting casts in the NFL. But acknowledging that would also mean admitting that the same FO did a bad job of surrounding Campbell with talent. Therefore, Campbell is the problem, we need to change QBs.

Forget loyalty to Campbell the person. This is a business, and everybody (except Clinton Portis, seemingly) is replaceable.

But how do we know that Sanchez is going to be any better than Campbell? How do we know Sanchez will do better than Campbell with his lack of experience and weak supporting cast? If we trade for Sanchez, we will be unable to address our OL issues, not to mention our holes at DE and OLB. Maybe Zorn loves Sanchez too, but how do we know that Zorn will still be the coach one year from now (most of us doubt it)? Maybe we will have a new head coach who wants to pick his own QB or who doesn't run the WCO and prefers more of a downfield passer (like Bill Cowher, for example)?

Does anybody have confidence that Snyder and Cerrato take any of this, and the long-term future of the team on the field, into consideration? Does anybody have confidence that Snyder and Cerrato have a plan that they are sticking to in building this roster?

The owner should not be involved in draft preparations. And he sure as hell should not be "falling in love" with anyone. He should save that for his wife.

Forget Campbell. This is much larger than Campbell. This is about the realization that, despite all the talk that Vinny is solely responsible for personnel, Snyder is running the draft and personnel. He fell in love with Cutler and fell in love with Sanchez. We have to watch him go through his infatuations and wonder what tomorrow brings for our team. We have no long-term plan, and any "plan" we profess to have is subject to change at the owner's whim. Everybody now realizes that we fans are just sitting on the outside of the playroom, watching a selfish and capricious owner use our beloved team as his personal playtoy. We are stuck with it, and are powerless to change it.

That is what is driving the dissension. It is high time that the children were kicked out of Redskins Park and adults were allowed to take over.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I was born a Redskins fan and I will die a Redskins fan. But I have already cut out the eye holes for my brown paper bag.

[skin4ever]

I don't think it is so much poor treatment of the player (Campbell) that people are up in arms about. I think it is the owner and his lapdog changing their minds YET AGAIN about the player leading the team. I think the fan base is increasingly tired of the owner's incessant window-shopping at other stores. Four years ago we dumped Ramsey and were told that the FO fell in love with Campbell, he is the man. Then this year, Snyder "falls in love" with Cutler, who has similar pedigree and stats in the league and is not even necessarily an upgrade. When he can't get Cutler, and we think (momentarily) that Campbell is safe, Snyder moves on to the next pretty girl in the store, Mark Sanchez. A guy who has 16 starts to his name, and supposedly cannot throw the deep ball. Now we hear that Snyder is in love with him.

Campbell IMO has done nothing to lose the job, and played very well last year with one of the least able supporting casts in the NFL. But acknowledging that would also mean admitting that the same FO did a bad job of surrounding Campbell with talent. Therefore, Campbell is the problem, we need to change QBs.

Forget loyalty to Campbell the person. This is a business, and everybody (except Clinton Portis, seemingly) is replaceable.

But how do we know that Sanchez is going to be any better than Campbell? How do we know Sanchez will do better than Campbell with his lack of experience and weak supporting cast? If we trade for Sanchez, we will be unable to address our OL issues, not to mention our holes at DE and OLB. Maybe Zorn loves Sanchez too, but how do we know that Zorn will still be the coach one year from now (most of us doubt it)? Maybe we will have a new head coach who wants to pick his own QB or who doesn't run the WCO and prefers more of a downfield passer (like Bill Cowher, for example)?

Does anybody have confidence that Snyder and Cerrato take any of this, and the long-term future of the team on the field, into consideration? Does anybody have confidence that Snyder and Cerrato have a plan that they are sticking to in building this roster?

The owner should not be involved in draft preparations. And he sure as hell should not be "falling in love" with anyone. He should save that for his wife.

Forget Campbell. This is much larger than Campbell. This is about the realization that, despite all the talk that Vinny is solely responsible for personnel, Snyder is running the draft and personnel. He fell in love with Cutler and fell in love with Sanchez. We have to watch him go through his infatuations and wonder what tomorrow brings for our team. We have no long-term plan, and any "plan" we profess to have is subject to change at the owner's whim. Everybody now realizes that we fans are just sitting on the outside of the playroom, watching a selfish and capricious owner use our beloved team as his personal playtoy. We are stuck with it, and are powerless to change it.

That is what is driving the dissension. It is high time that the children were kicked out of Redskins Park and adults were allowed to take over.

I agree, but its alot easier to be looking elsewhere when your team doesnt consistently win. Look at any franchise that does not consistently win and i think you will find QB switches and such.

Also, I think that Skins fans should be proud that they root for the Skins, despite the FO and their actions and lack of success.

When the screen shows a shot of DS, i am sure a lot of us say something or think something really negative, but once the shot is over, and they get back to football, we cheer for the WASHINGTON REDSKINS.

Thats my point. Dispair or not, we cant do anything to change it, sure we are entitled to complain and air our opinions, but as a fan the thought of not being one should never enter your mind.

[culpeper]

JC the person- great guy, cant say enough good things about him

JC the QB- has flashes of a top 10 qb, and then resembles Ramsey at times. I was all for the Cutler trade, but that was an instant and guaranteed upgrade.

dirty the person- from what I know, seems to be a great guy as well. Involved in the community in So. Cal and squeaky clean

dirty the QB- Ive seen just as many flashes of a USC QB out of Matt Lienart. Dirty has struggled as well and has had his own Ramsey moments...in 16 starts

Redskins the franchise- Im torn here. On the one hand I have a potential Vinny's destruction scenario from fan backlash, but on the other hand I would LOVE to see a flash of that "word of the day" we used last offseason (until the Jason Taylor trade) RESTRAINT. IMHO weve seen Vinny make some good deals to help this team and in the same fashion we all beg for here on the boards. HOWEVER, he immediately follows such a move with a boneheaded circle-j*** that leaves us spiraling down the rabbit hole...which one will this be?

Redskins the team- I fail to see the draw here. Theres no immediate upgrade. This sets us back two years at the least (if we trade JC), and doesnt help our team at all for the coming year if dirty comes in and competes (he will lose that competition, but at least Collins gets cut).

conclusion- please stay at 13 or trade back. Draft for NEED instead of WANT or whatever "grade" you have given a player. If we were playing a game show Vinny's draft board should look like this:

A. Rey Maliuga
B. OT/DE
C. trade back
D. disclose publicly that you are indeed more interested in making money than producing a winner, and subject yourself to the wrath of the fanbase in Adams Morgan at 2am sunday morning...

[BurgundyNGold]

I wouldn't be so quick to think that the Jets are interested or that they're interested at a fair price. I mean, where were the Jets where we were shopping JC for a 2nd?

[dj_stouty]

I don't think it is so much poor treatment of the player (Campbell) that people are up in arms about. I think it is the owner and his lapdog changing their minds YET AGAIN about the player leading the team. I think the fan base is increasingly tired of the owner's incessant window-shopping at other stores. Four years ago we dumped Ramsey and were told that the FO fell in love with Campbell, he is the man. Then this year, Snyder "falls in love" with Cutler, who has similar pedigree and stats in the league and is not even necessarily an upgrade. When he can't get Cutler, and we think (momentarily) that Campbell is safe, Snyder moves on to the next pretty girl in the store, Mark Sanchez. A guy who has 16 starts to his name, and supposedly cannot throw the deep ball. Now we hear that Snyder is in love with him.

Campbell IMO has done nothing to lose the job, and played very well last year with one of the least able supporting casts in the NFL. But acknowledging that would also mean admitting that the same FO did a bad job of surrounding Campbell with talent. Therefore, Campbell is the problem, we need to change QBs.

Forget loyalty to Campbell the person. This is a business, and everybody (except Clinton Portis, seemingly) is replaceable.

But how do we know that Sanchez is going to be any better than Campbell? How do we know Sanchez will do better than Campbell with his lack of experience and weak supporting cast? If we trade for Sanchez, we will be unable to address our OL issues, not to mention our holes at DE and OLB. Maybe Zorn loves Sanchez too, but how do we know that Zorn will still be the coach one year from now (most of us doubt it)? Maybe we will have a new head coach who wants to pick his own QB or who doesn't run the WCO and prefers more of a downfield passer (like Bill Cowher, for example)?

Does anybody have confidence that Snyder and Cerrato take any of this, and the long-term future of the team on the field, into consideration? Does anybody have confidence that Snyder and Cerrato have a plan that they are sticking to in building this roster?

The owner should not be involved in draft preparations. And he sure as hell should not be "falling in love" with anyone. He should save that for his wife.

Forget Campbell. This is much larger than Campbell. This is about the realization that, despite all the talk that Vinny is solely responsible for personnel, Snyder is running the draft and personnel. He fell in love with Cutler and fell in love with Sanchez. We have to watch him go through his infatuations and wonder what tomorrow brings for our team. We have no long-term plan, and any "plan" we profess to have is subject to change at the owner's whim. Everybody now realizes that we fans are just sitting on the outside of the playroom, watching a selfish and capricious owner use our beloved team as his personal playtoy. We are stuck with it, and are powerless to change it.

That is what is driving the dissension. It is high time that the children were kicked out of Redskins Park and adults were allowed to take over.

I think the FO has gone about the JC situation the wrong way. They have obviously lied to his face about the trade rumors; Cutler; Sanchez...etc. I think a QB deserves more in the way of communication - but I certainly won't throw my B&G jerseys in the trash over it.

BUT all that aside, I have zero problem with the FO trying to upgrade the QB position. Jason is no longer our rookie QB that we were bringing along slowly. He is an established QB with a lot of games under his belt; enough to determine if he is your franchise guy or not. I really don't think Jason is a few games away from "breaking out". It should have happened by now. Obviously other NFL teams agree or else they would have lined up to trade for him last month. Like it or not; Cutler would have been an upgrade as 4,500 yard QBs don't grow on trees - but the price tag didn't warrant it. Sanchez is one of the top 2 QB talents in this year's draft. There is no guarantee on him; just like there is no guarantee with ANY college QB taken that early. I disagree with you that he can't throw the long ball. I've personally seen him make those throws. He seems to be able to make every NFL throw and that is what you want out of a top 10 pick at QB.

Will a new QB translate to more wins this year? Probably not; but then again I don't think any one player taken at #13 will have that much of an impact on our record considering all the holes this team has and how many positions need upgrading.

[skin4ever]

I wouldn't be so quick to think that the Jets are interested or that they're interested at a fair price. I mean, where were the Jets where we were shopping JC for a 2nd?

waiting for the skins to come to reality and shop him for at most a 4th.

[Skinzlover223]

I dunno Redskins are in a pickle. Lets just say Campbell has another sub par season. (It is possible people!!!!) In 2010 we are going to be in a situation where we need a QB. However because of the horrible management on this team we don't have many picks. I can imagine we could get a decent DL or OL in the 2nd round and pull the trigger on a QB in the first round. That would be for a team that didn't just trade all their picks away. It is a terrible situation.

[firehawk157]

I dunno Redskins are in a pickle. Lets just say Campbell has another sub par season. (It is possible people!!!!) In 2010 we are going to be in a situation where we need a QB. However because of the horrible management on this team we don't have many picks. I can imagine we could get a decent DL or OL in the 2nd round and pull the trigger on a QB in the first round. That would be for a team that didn't just trade all their picks away. It is a terrible situation.
I believe that this draft is unusually deep in linemen though. So let's get our OL set for the next couple of years and THEN deal with the QB. That way the QB comes into a decent situation instead of the line in shambles.

[ObiWan1278]

I was born a Redskins fan and I will die a Redskins fan. But I have already cut out the eye holes for my brown paper bag.

LOL.....oh and Go Pirates....maybe we knock out a few ACC big dogs again this year.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I don't know what to believe anymore. God Bless Jason for dealing with the craziness, but he is a millionaire, so really I am sure he can deal.

[shally]

I was born a Redskins fan and I will die a Redskins fan. But I have already cut out the eye holes for my brown paper bag.


lol...priceless !!!!

[dj_stouty]

So what is Jason's value? Hard to tell...but no one flinched when the Skins were looking for a 2nd round pick for him. Lets assume a 3rd...

Lets use the Trade Chart for a second. (And yes, NFL teams still use it as a guide or resource as I hear GMs speak about it every day on NFL Radio)

Redskins #13 Pick: 1150 points
Jacksonville's #8 Pick: 1400 points

Difference: 250 points

If the Jets were willing to trade their 3rd rounder (#76) for Jason, the value of the pick would be 210 points. That gets the Skins close (w/in 40 points) of trading up with JAX to #8 should Sanchez be availalbe. Toss in a sloppy joe player and the deal could be close.

Now...if the Skins needed to go a bit higher to get Sanchez...say #6...the additional 200 value points could come in the way of someone like Santana Moss; who you have to believe is worth at least a 3rd rounder.

Just pointing out that the Skins do have some leverage to get up to 6 or 8 without the need of trading next year's picks.

[OCSKINSFAN]

I wonder if the Skins' management realizes the risk (which has a fairly high probability) there would be in giving up their draft for Sanchez and trading Campbell. If Sanchez is a bust, the team will be a loser for years and half the fan base will be gone. While I have my doubts about JC being a franchise QB, especially in the Zorn offense, and I think Sanchez has perhaps greater potential than JC, the risk is too high. With JC (who is at least decent and may improve), a good #13 pick and overall draft, a better O Line than last year, the maturation of the young WR's, and a better defense (particularly with AH), the Skins should be competitive for the playoffs. That turns to dust if the risk happens.

[shally]

So what is Jason's value? Hard to tell...but no one flinched when the Skins were looking for a 2nd round pick for him. Lets assume a 3rd...

Lets use the Trade Chart for a second. (And yes, NFL teams still use it as a guide or resource as I hear GMs speak about it every day on NFL Radio)

Redskins #13 Pick: 1150 points
Jacksonville's #8 Pick: 1400 points

Difference: 250 points

If the Jets were willing to trade their 3rd rounder (#76) for Jason, the value of the pick would be 210 points. That gets the Skins close (w/in 40 points) of trading up with JAX to #8 should Sanchez be availalbe. Toss in a sloppy joe player and the deal could be close.

Now...if the Skins needed to go a bit higher to get Sanchez...say #6...the additional 200 value points could come in the way of someone like Santana Moss; who you have to believe is worth at least a 3rd rounder.

Just pointing out that the Skins do have some leverage to get up to 6 or 8 without the need of trading next year's picks.

problem with players is that they want extensions when they get traded... or you have personality or scheme clashes.. most teams simply want the picks

[skinsfan36]

sal pal on the radio said the vikes,seahawks may also be interested in campbell.lots of rumors. my bachelor party starts tommorow night so i wont know much until before the draft at like 4 im going to a bar to watch the skins then going back to my camping trip. it may be good since it seems to be rumor overload city lol

[skin4ever]

So what is Jason's value? Hard to tell...but no one flinched when the Skins were looking for a 2nd round pick for him. Lets assume a 3rd...

Lets use the Trade Chart for a second. (And yes, NFL teams still use it as a guide or resource as I hear GMs speak about it every day on NFL Radio)

Redskins #13 Pick: 1150 points
Jacksonville's #8 Pick: 1400 points

Difference: 250 points

If the Jets were willing to trade their 3rd rounder (#76) for Jason, the value of the pick would be 210 points. That gets the Skins close (w/in 40 points) of trading up with JAX to #8 should Sanchez be availalbe. Toss in a sloppy joe player and the deal could be close.

Now...if the Skins needed to go a bit higher to get Sanchez...say #6...the additional 200 value points could come in the way of someone like Santana Moss; who you have to believe is worth at least a 3rd rounder.

Just pointing out that the Skins do have some leverage to get up to 6 or 8 without the need of trading next year's picks.

I have been hearing that the old draft trade chart is out the window especially for top 10 guys. [on an aside, and dont want to derail this discussion, i dont think a team would trade for JC for a 3rd rd., probably a 5th given the way the skins have treated the situation and JC play. And for the record I wouldnt trade campbell today even for a 3rd.) It might be easier to move into the top 10 to get Sanchez, especially with a team like the Jags who are, well, cheap. That cost of savings could be enough for the Jags, depending on who is available because like us, they have some holes to fill.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

i hope campbell goes to the jets for his own sake.through all this mmess,first with cutler and now with sanchez,he has been the only mature person in all this caca!snyder has certainly showed what a pathetic little dictator of a leader he is!!!!!!!

[bigmike7914]

I am at the point now where if Jason Campbell is traded l I am officially not a Redskins fan anymore and I have been a skins fan since 1988 I wouldn't root for anyone else but I will burn, sale, or throw all of my redskins gear away it just disgust me on how this franchise is being ran now:devil2::moon1:
I looked at all my redskins stuff today and I couldn't imagine going through a season without rooting for the skins I was simply speaking out of anger because I feel JC can do the job and also if we trade Jc and bring in Sanchez we set ourselves back a long way and probably wouldn't be competative for another 3 to 5 years,

[frankez99]

My forehead has a permanent scar from the amount of times I've slapped it over the years.....and yelled, "ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME? WHAT IS THIS TEAM DOING?".

Due to our FO's "sly"(der) tactics, the relationship with Campbell is irrevocably damaged; unless Danny-boy forks out a lot of cash to him to "make up"; but even then.......

Hopefully the Caps can win tomorrow night or else I'm going into draft night COMPLETELY ripped to numb the pain.

Hail.......sigh. Regardless, I'm never going to relinquish my fandom, no matter how painful it is.

Take care everyone.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I hate to even admit it, but the bridges are burned here. I am now accepting the fact that we're gonna have a different starting quarterback come September and will most likely insufficiently fill the 3 major holes we DO have. :doh:

[wide_awake]

Hopefully the Caps can win tomorrow night or else I'm going into draft night COMPLETELY ripped to numb the pain.


Amen to that! The Caps have ripped my heart out of my chest after an entire season of anticipation and hope.

I'm trying to remain positive but man it it frustrating and painful watching them lose to the freakin' RANGERS

[ARParr]

the sad part about it is that Snyder & Cerrato clearly don't care if they "damage" their relationship with Campell. they clearly believe that he's done in Washington, and that nothing is going to change that. it's why they didn't offer him a contract renewal. they've turned my beloved Washington Redskins into a complete ************* and i don't see it getting any better until Snyder gets hit by a train. sorry to be so blunt, but that's absolutely the way i see it at this point.

[bigcmr]

I have been hearing that the old draft trade chart is out the window especially for top 10 guys. [on an aside, and dont want to derail this discussion, i dont think a team would trade for JC for a 3rd rd., probably a 5th given the way the skins have treated the situation and JC play. And for the record I wouldnt trade campbell today even for a 3rd.) It might be easier to move into the top 10 to get Sanchez, especially with a team like the Jags who are, well, cheap. That cost of savings could be enough for the Jags, depending on who is available because like us, they have some holes to fill.

Yep at this point I dont expect Campbell to get much in trade value. Im thinking a 4th if were lucky. Sad part about it is I think Campbell sould be given 1 more year.

[hogskins]

I hate to even admit it, but the bridges are burned here. I am now accepting the fact that we're gonna have a different starting quarterback come September and will most likely insufficiently fill the 3 major holes we DO have. :doh:

I hadn't thought of the situation in such bleak terms (as a package deal), but I frankly won't be surprised if it plays out that way.

One thing that I haven't seen discussed is, in the trade up to get Sanchez and trade away Campbell scenario, who starts on opening day? Should we pencil in Sanchez? Collins initially? Triple reverse "ugh", with a twist...

[redskin_rich]

I hadn't thought of the situation in such bleak terms (as a package deal), but I frankly won't be surprised if it plays out that way.

One thing that I haven't seen discussed is, in the trade up to get Sanchez and trade away Campbell scenario, who starts on opening day? Should we pencil in Sanchez? Collins initially? Triple reverse "ugh", with a twist...

I think if we get Sanchez, at the steep price, you have to pencil him in as starter from day 1, barring a lengthy holdout. Obviously, Snyder has taken notice of the success Ryan and Flacco had.

Furthermore, why wait until midseason, when our aged O-Line will start breaking down and Portis will be feeling the effects of 150+ carries?

[Skinz4lyfe]

Good Lord what are we doing here? I wouldn't be surprised to see Campbell traded because it does seem like we're ready to part ways w/him. What is it gonna take for Snyder to stop "meddling" in the team's operations? If he had success it would be different but clearly that hasn't been the case. Somebody please save us from ourselves (as Cincy did last year) and draft Sanchez. At this point the best thing for Campbell would be to play out his contract, do well and give the FO a great big eff u very much.

[ObiWan1278]

A couple points. Everything I know about football and quarterbacks is summed up right here.


Mark Rypien was a average QB.

Mark Rypien had a really good offensive line.
Mark Rypien had decent weapons

Mark Rypien was a MVP QB.

Mark Rypien left the skins and his awesome offensive line.
Mark Rypien was no longer a MVP or Pro Bowl QB.

OFFENSIVE LINE OFFENSIVE LINE OFFENSIVE LINE.


Point 2.

I keep reading about holes were going to have still when we draft sanchez. I think it goes further than that. Pardon me for saying but I think that Portis is a bit of a ....whiner definite problem child if he wants to be. I saw Moss flat out Quit on a pass vs the Seahawks that cost us a game. We have a aging vet line that is going to want to win now or is very apt to pack it in. These players are not going to want to play for a rookie QB...with one year of experience. Point is if they draft Sanchez and trade Campbell...Zorn will lose this team...its almost inevitable. And the skins are basically throwing the season in the bag, and it has to be consciously. I love the skins but I do not want to find out in a few years that Shanahan is consulting with this team when he isn't even the coach yet....its not fair to Zorn (not saying he is but one has to wonder).


Now I like Jason Campbell he seems like a pretty down to earth and humble guy. I like that Gibbs wanted him so bad...and I like that he is gritty. But I also remember that a career back up took us to the play offs...that was the only missing ingredient of winning 5 in a row....thats telling to me. Now you can say "he was young.... etc etc...... Career back up...5 wins in a row that team was ready"

Our offense has been anemic, our receivers either don't get open, drop the ball or Campbell isn't finding them. We have 0 vertical threat.... QB looks to be a culprit, though I'm of the opinion we have some of the worst receivers in the league, Moss to me does not have the surest hands and I think he is a number 2. The rest of them have had little production....either they aren't getting open (probable) or Campbell isn't looking for them. I have seen Campbell have what to me seem like plenty of time but not find anyone open. We have wanted to run so bad but you can't if no one respects the pass.
I don't' think Sanchez is the guy and personally I think next year is the year of the QB to trade the future for. I wish they would get as many offensive linemen as they can this year and fulfill the QB next year. There is a good chance we will be picking high next year (not trying to be negative), and there are multiple decent QB options lets get one then.

I am done rambling now

[firehawk157]

A couple points. Everything I know about football and quarterbacks is summed up right here.


Mark Rypien was a average QB.

Mark Rypien had a really good offensive line.
Mark Rypien had decent weapons

Mark Rypien was a MVP QB.

Mark Rypien left the skins and his awesome offensive line.
Mark Rypien was no longer a MVP or Pro Bowl QB.

OFFENSIVE LINE OFFENSIVE LINE OFFENSIVE LINE.


Point 2.

I keep reading about holes were going to have still when we draft sanchez. I think it goes further than that. Pardon me for saying but I think that Portis is a bit of a ....whiner definite problem child if he wants to be. I saw Moss flat out Quit on a pass vs the Seahawks that cost us a game. We have a aging vet line that is going to want to win now or is very apt to pack it in. These players are not going to want to play for a rookie QB...with one year of experience. Point is if they draft Sanchez and trade Campbell...Zorn will lose this team...its almost inevitable. And the skins are basically throwing the season in the bag, and it has to be consciously. I love the skins but I do not want to find out in a few years that Shanahan is consulting with this team when he isn't even the coach yet....its not fair to Zorn (not saying he is but one has to wonder).


Now I like Jason Campbell he seems like a pretty down to earth and humble guy. I like that Gibbs wanted him so bad...and I like that he is gritty. But I also remember that a career back up took us to the play offs...that was the only missing ingredient of winning 5 in a row....thats telling to me. Now you can say "he was young.... etc etc...... Career back up...5 wins in a row that team was ready"

Our offense has been anemic, our receivers either don't get open, drop the ball or Campbell isn't finding them. We have 0 vertical threat.... QB looks to be a culprit, though I'm of the opinion we have some of the worst receivers in the league, Moss to me does not have the surest hands and I think he is a number 2. The rest of them have had little production....either they aren't getting open (probable) or Campbell isn't looking for them. I have seen Campbell have what to me seem like plenty of time but not find anyone open. We have wanted to run so bad but you can't if no one respects the pass.
I don't' think Sanchez is the guy and personally I think next year is the year of the QB to trade the future for. I wish they would get as many offensive linemen as they can this year and fulfill the QB next year. There is a good chance we will be picking high next year (not trying to be negative), and there are multiple decent QB options lets get one then.

I am done rambling now
So, in one non-conjective sentence or less, what is your position?

[joethefan]

even if they dont get a qb, If I were jason I would ask for a trade anyway.....I would not trust snyder, vinnie or zorn from this point on, if I were him....and if he does after all this, then shame on him......

[firehawk157]

even if they dont get a qb, If I were jason I would ask for a trade anyway.....I would not trust snyder, vinnie or zorn from this point on, if I were him....and if he does after all this, then shame on him......
Fool me once... Shame on... shame on you. Fool me twice... You aren't gonna fool me again!

[joethefan]

Fool me once... Shame on... shame on you. Fool me twice... You aren't gonna fool me again!

he may have missed his window of opp....after the cutler thing he should have been screaming....IMO

[warpaint]

he may have missed his window of opp....after the cutler thing he should have been screaming....IMO

some say Jason handled all the talk about cutler in a professional way, maybe for some this is the correct way of dealing with adversity of someone taking your job, I just cant see any quarterback that is a proven winner going this route, to me its like letting someone kick you in the butt and telling them "thank you" just seems to me that Jason just doesn't have all of that fire inside which makes or drives one on to successes regardless of profession. some people are born leaders while others are followers, Campbell in my opinion is in the followers group, and until he decides to be a leader will never be an elite q.b. I have on many occasions while being talked to on the sidelines by a coach,he just seems by the expression on his face as not to have a clue as to what they are talking about

[Skins3]

WOW
What does this FO have to do to prove themselves to Jason Campbell.
Hired Jim Zorn as head coach (a QB coach for Jason Campbell WCO)
Used pretty much the entire draft last year on recievers(Thomas Davis Kelly)
Spent some money on The O-line this year

How many other players has the team invested this much time and effort in?

[firehawk157]

WOW
What does this FO have to do to prove themselves to Jason Campbell.
Hired Jim Zorn as head coach (a QB coach for Jason Campbell WCO)
Used pretty much the entire draft last year on recievers(Thomas Davis Kelly)
Spent some money on The O-line this year

How many other players has the team invested this much time and effort in?
Who touches the ball more than a QB?

[joethefan]

WOW
What does this FO have to do to prove themselves to Jason Campbell.
Hired Jim Zorn as head coach (a QB coach for Jason Campbell WCO)
Used pretty much the entire draft last year on recievers(Thomas Davis Kelly)
Spent some money on The O-line this year

How many other players has the team invested this much time and effort in?
so after doing that for one year you think that was just it?


fact of the matter is the oline, running game broke down afte the pitt. game the three recivers they drafted did nothng to help the team nor JC...Jim Zorn IMO did his part but I would love to see you behind that line last year. And some times his starting recievers let him down as well.... So what they spent money on the oline this year, what good would that do for jason if he's not here.......then when the oline issue get fixed, they'll say it was jason......i hope they miss on sanchez and jason asks for a trade anyway....you can't play for people you cannot trust....IMO...I wouldn't trust none of them none of three stooges

[redskin_rich]

he may have missed his window of opp....after the cutler thing he should have been screaming....IMO

Screaming about what? Being challenged for the job he never had to compete for?

Look, I don't agree with how the Skins are handling things but all this garbage that Jason deserves better is horse crap. If he really demands a trade because he can't handle a rookie coming in to challenge his position, then we don't need his candy arse anyway.

[joethefan]

Screaming about what? Being challenged for the job he never had to compete for?

Look, I don't agree with how the Skins are handling things but all this garbage that Jason deserves better is horse crap. If he really demands a trade because he can't handle a rookie coming in to challenge his position, then we don't need his cwandy arse anyway.


now you know rich based on draft position and money, that getting sanchez would already make him the so called franchize qb...you should know that. but why work for people who don't trust you. I certainly wouldn't trust them if that is what they are trying to do. What would that do for JC's future here....thus setting us back another 2-3 years. Alot of this is not because of competition IMO its the way they are doing things....telling him and us one thing and doing the other. If they picked a qb with a 3rd or 4th...ok bring it on...but not moving up 5-8 spots in the first, paying him all that money and expecting him to be future franchize qb? knowing what the rookie qb's did last year....and jason is supposed to be ok with that? he isn't stupid.... he's doomed...and you know it. I would have asked for a trade after the cutler thing just to put more pressure on them.....

[redskin_rich]

now you know rich based on draft position and money, that getting sanchez would already make him the so called franchize qb...you should know that. but why work for people who don't trust you. I certainly wouldn't trust them if that is what they are trying to do. What would that do for JC's future here....thus setting us back another 2-3 years. Alot of this is not because of competition IMO its the way they are doing things....telling him and us one thing and doing the other. If they picked a qb with a 3rd or 4th...ok bring it on...but not moving up 5-8 spots in the first, paying him all that money and expecting him to be future franchize qb? knowing what the rookie qb's did last year....and jason is supposed to be ok with that? he isn't stupid.... he's doomed...and you know it. I would have asked for a trade after the cutler thing just to put more pressure on them.....
Were you one of those that berated Ramsey for privately bristling when we traded for Brunell? If so, then be consistent.

I totally agree that the dishonest way the Skins go about things is deplorable.

[dj_stouty]

Screaming about what? Being challenged for the job he never had to compete for?

Look, I don't agree with how the Skins are handling things but all this garbage that Jason deserves better is horse crap. If he really demands a trade because he can't handle a rookie coming in to challenge his position, then we don't need his candy arse anyway.

Great post. I'm glad that you pointed out that Jason has never competed for his job.

In another thread, I talked about how I'd love to see both Jason and Sanchez on the roster in '09. A little competition never hurt anyone; and it weeds out the men from the boys. But that seems impossible now - since the Skins will be forced to trade Jason to get enough value to trade up....OR Jason will demand a trade.

[firehawk157]

now you know rich based on draft position and money, that getting sanchez would already make him the so called franchize qb...you should know that. but why work for people who don't trust you. I certainly wouldn't trust them if that is what they are trying to do. What would that do for JC's future here....thus setting us back another 2-3 years. Alot of this is not because of competition IMO its the way they are doing things....telling him and us one thing and doing the other. If they picked a qb with a 3rd or 4th...ok bring it on...but not moving up 5-8 spots in the first, paying him all that money and expecting him to be future franchize qb? knowing what the rookie qb's did last year....and jason is supposed to be ok with that? he isn't stupid.... he's doomed...and you know it. I would have asked for a trade after the cutler thing just to put more pressure on them.....
I can understand your ire if JC was good/great last year. He was good half the year, bad the other half. If this is how he rewards our trust (mediocrity and streaky play), why should we continue to trust him? I wish our fanbase would think more highly of the honor of playing QB for the Redskins and think that we (as a fanbase, f Snyder and Vinny) deserve excellence from the QB position as opposed to mediocrity.

[joethefan]

Were you one of those that berated Ramsey for privately bristling when we traded for Brunell? If so, then be consistent.

I totally agree that the dishonest way the Skins go about things is deplorable.

yes but in this case I'm not berating JC for demanding a trade if they do this then yes I'm for him demanding a trade....ramsey wasn't gibbs guy anyway...but they didn't lie to PRam either.....but to lie to jason and to do it saying on one day you're our guy and running to the phone to call teams to see what you can get is a different thing....if they were honest and said that Jason wasn't the guy for this system and told him and everyone one else they were looking to move him then that's acceptable but to be so turncoatish every day with a guys future esp when he's done nothing but do what you ask him to do, that's wrong IMO.......and ramsey had a chance to battle for his spot with brunell, giving him a chance to stay at qb and had the starting spot before gibbs came.....

[akhhorus]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/24/source-jets-maintain-interest-in-campbell/

The Jets, who are also pursuing Sanchez, have the 17th choice. A Jets source said Thursday that the team would be interested in acquiring Campbell if it loses out in the Sanchez sweepstakes. Brett Favre retired after last season, leaving the Jets with an inexperienced quarterback trio of Kellen Clemens, Brett Ratliff and Erik Ainge.

(snip)

Neither Campbell nor his agent, Joel Segal, returned messages. Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerrato denied that he has talked to the Jets about Campbell.

In Vinnnyese: we have a deal in place with the Jets lol

[skin4ever]

he may have missed his window of opp....after the cutler thing he should have been screaming....IMO

JC doesnt have the leverage Cutler did in forcing a trade. If Campbell did that or does it in the future, Snyder would have probably said No, as Campbell wouldnt garner a first day pick. You cant be subpar and act like an ass. Look at TO, no matter how he acts he will get resigned, however, if Sam Hurd did that, crickets....his agent wouldnt even have to check the answering machine. Not saying Campbell is on Hurd's level, but Campbell isnt revered as having a great potential as Cutler.

And, IMO, why would the Skins trade Campbell for even a 2nd rd pick, where Campbell's motivation has to be to start for another NFL when his contract expires(b/c if he flops his chances go out the window and onto to riding the pine). We will see the best JC we have seen yet. IMO, JC better shrug off this and play not for the DS but for himself. Worst Case scenario we release him. Best case scenario, we franchise him and someone ponies up and we deal him. The gamble is worth it.

[hogskins]

Great post. I'm glad that you pointed out that Jason has never competed for his job.

In another thread, I talked about how I'd love to see both Jason and Sanchez on the roster in '09. A little competition never hurt anyone; and it weeds out the men from the boys. But that seems impossible now - since the Skins will be forced to trade Jason to get enough value to trade up....OR Jason will demand a trade.

While I agree with your reasoning, we cannot be absolutely sure that they won't find a way to keep both this season. If Sanchez doesn't have to compete, do we reset the excuse generator (e.g., unfamiliar with the offense, tiring 2nd half running game, weak/old OL, bad receivers, etc. ...) for 2 years or 3?

[skin4ever]

yes but in this case I'm not berating JC for demanding a trade if they do this then yes I'm for him demanding a trade....ramsey wasn't gibbs guy anyway...but they didn't lie to PRam either.....but to lie to jason and to do it saying on one day you're our guy and running to the phone to call teams to see what you can get is a different thing....if they were honest and said that Jason wasn't the guy for this system and told him and everyone one else they were looking to move him then that's acceptable but to be so turncoatish every day with a guys future esp when he's done nothing but do what you ask him to do, that's wrong IMO.......and ramsey had a chance to battle for his spot with brunell, giving him a chance to stay at qb and had the starting spot before gibbs came.....

cant have it both ways, Didnt Ramsey start a season as a starter(won the job), got minorly injured in game one, and then lost his starting status for the rest of the season. That wasnt a sham???? JC isnt Zorn's guy anyway.. Ramsey did everything they asked of him too...no difference.

PS-I counted at least 4 buts in your argument after you said YES. Thats a lot of buts for someone claiming situations are different.

[firehawk157]

yes but in this case I'm not berating JC for demanding a trade if they do this then yes I'm for him demanding a trade....ramsey wasn't gibbs guy anyway...but they didn't lie to PRam either.....but to lie to jason and to do it saying on one day you're our guy and running to the phone to call teams to see what you can get is a different thing....if they were honest and said that Jason wasn't the guy for this system and told him and everyone one else they were looking to move him then that's acceptable but to be so turncoatish every day with a guys future esp when he's done nothing but do what you ask him to do, that's wrong IMO.......and ramsey had a chance to battle for his spot with brunell, giving him a chance to stay at qb and had the starting spot before gibbs came.....
Well, in that case, I can't expect Vinny to tell JC he's not the guy until after he has something already in place. That's just dumb. Where he really erred was letting it get out that he was in pursuit of Cutler/Sanchez before it became a sure thing.

[firehawk157]

cant have it both ways, Didnt Ramsey start a season as a starter(won the job), got minorly injured in game one, and then lost his starting status for the rest of the season. That wasnt a sham???? JC isnt Zorn's guy anyway.. , You have a lot of buts in your explanation for you not trying to cover tracks. Ramsey did everything they asked of him too...no difference.

PS-I counted at least 4 buts in your argument after you said YES. Thats a lot of buts for someone claiming situations are different.
A lot of "ifs" as well

[firehawk157]

JC doesnt have the leverage Cutler did in forcing a trade. If Campbell did that or does it in the future, Snyder would have probably said No, as Campbell wouldnt garner a first day pick. You cant be subpar and act like an ass. Look at TO, no matter how he acts he will get resigned, however, if Sam Hurd did that, crickets....his agent wouldnt even have to check the answering machine. Not saying Campbell is on Hurd's level, but Campbell isnt revered as having a great potential as Cutler.

And, IMO, why would the Skins trade Campbell for even a 2nd rd pick, where Campbell's motivation has to be to start for another NFL when his contract expires(b/c if he flops his chances go out the window and onto to riding the pine). We will see the best JC we have seen yet. IMO, JC better shrug off this and play not for the DS but for himself. Worst Case scenario we release him. Best case scenario, we franchise him and someone ponies up and we deal him. The gamble is worth it.
Maybe all receivers are divas, its just the only ones who get to act like it are the ones who are good enough to. There is probably no such thing as a quiet, hard-working receiver.

[Skinz4lyfe]

The problem isn't so much of JC competing for a job w/Sanchez. The problem is the FO inability to address the true needs of the team. We don't have a quality starter at the Sam, right OT, or DE. I'd be all for competition if we had those positions filled but right now we don't and it doesn't appear that we will be able to address those needs this year. We need to stop w/the quick fixes (J. Taylor trade, signing Haynesworth to trilion dollar contract, duckett trade, insert dumb FO move here) and start building for the future. Building through the draft and value the draft more.

[skin4ever]

Maybe all receivers are divas, its just the only ones who get to act like it are the ones who are good enough to. There is probably no such thing as a quiet, hard-working receiver.

Marvin Harrison, Wes Welker, Isaac Bruce...but that wasnt the point i was making with my post.

[Skins7ny]

My forehead has a permanent scar from the amount of times I've slapped it over the years.....and yelled, "ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME? WHAT IS THIS TEAM DOING?"....
I strongly suggest you put a soft pad on your forehead Saturday.
the sad part about it is that Snyder & Cerrato clearly don't care if they "damage" their relationship with Campell. they clearly believe that he's done in Washington, and that nothing is going to change that. it's why they didn't offer him a contract renewal. they've turned my beloved Washington Redskins into a complete ************* and i don't see it getting any better until Snyder gets hit by a train. sorry to be so blunt, but that's absolutely the way i see it at this point.
You are probably right. But it also possible that they think that they can make it up to him by giving him a huge contract extension if they don't get Sanchez and Campbell plays lights out this year.
Good Lord what are we doing here? I wouldn't be surprised to see Campbell traded because it does seem like we're ready to part ways w/him. What is it gonna take for Snyder to stop "meddling" in the team's operations? If he had success it would be different but clearly that hasn't been the case. Somebody please save us from ourselves (as Cincy did last year) and draft Sanchez. At this point the best thing for Campbell would be to play out his contract, do well and give the FO a great big eff u very much.
Snyder doesn't "meddle" in the team's operations. He IS the team's operations.

When they came up with this Clean Slate stuff before last off-season, I was willing to take their word at face value: The team stated clearly that Cerrato, supposedly for the first time ever, had full authority over personnel and was responsible for its success or failure.

Maybe that was true last year and Snyder changed his mind after watching the first-year failure of 9 out of Vinny's first 10 draft choices. Or maybe it was never true. But is has become painfully clear this off-season that Snyder is running personnel, and Vinny is along for the ride. Dan's presence at the draft press conference, talking about lessons that he has (allegedly) learned and what they are going to do, means the Skins aren't even trying to hide it anymore.

We all have to accept the fact that what Snyder is doing isn't meddling, but running the team. Like his hero Jerry Jones, but without having the balls to give himself the GM title so we can judge him clearly on his successes or failure.

A couple points. Everything I know about football and quarterbacks is summed up right here.


Mark Rypien was a average QB.

Mark Rypien had a really good offensive line.
Mark Rypien had decent weapons

Mark Rypien was a MVP QB.

Mark Rypien left the skins and his awesome offensive line.
Mark Rypien was no longer a MVP or Pro Bowl QB.

OFFENSIVE LINE OFFENSIVE LINE OFFENSIVE LINE....

I don't' think Sanchez is the guy and personally I think next year is the year of the QB to trade the future for. I wish they would get as many offensive linemen as they can this year and fulfill the QB next year. There is a good chance we will be picking high next year (not trying to be negative), and there are multiple decent QB options lets get one then.

I am done rambling now
Your post is very wise. The failure of the offense in the 2nd half is directly traceable to the OL breaking down. And you are also correct that the wise course would be to rebuild the OL to the extent that they can in one off-season (signing Dockery is not enough) and giving Campbell the chance to play 16 games with an improved line. Then, if he fails (which I doubt), you replace him at QB next year (when you probably will have a new coach and possibly and entire new offensive system in place).
I can understand your ire if JC was good/great last year. He was good half the year, bad the other half. If this is how he rewards our trust (mediocrity and streaky play), why should we continue to trust him? I wish our fanbase would think more highly of the honor of playing QB for the Redskins and think that we (as a fanbase, f Snyder and Vinny) deserve excellence from the QB position as opposed to mediocrity.
If that is our standard, we should be looking to replace all 11 starters on offense. Not one of them played to their 1st-half level. Some of them dropped off precipitously. Campbell's drop off in my opinion was very slight, most of his problems were due to the problems of the other 10 guys. He had literally no one to throw to for 8 games (Moss disappeared and Cooley was increasingly having to be left in to block) and his running game fell off.
A QB cannot do it by himself. All the blame being thrown at Campbell is seriously misplaced.
...[A]nd, IMO, why would the Skins trade Campbell for even a 2nd rd pick, where Campbell's motivation has to be to start for another NFL when his contract expires(b/c if he flops his chances go out the window and onto to riding the pine). We will see the best JC we have seen yet. IMO, JC better shrug off this and play not for the DS but for himself. Worst Case scenario we release him. Best case scenario, we franchise him and someone ponies up and we deal him. The gamble is worth it.
If we do draft Sanchez, having Campbell on the team is just going to lead to a divided locker room and more problems. If Sanchez is our guy, we have to get rid of Campbell and let Sanchez be the guy. From what everyone says, Sanchez has plenty of charm and is a good leader, I have no doubt he would win over the locker room pretty quickly if he looks halfway decent in camp. I don't advocate making the switch, but if we make it, it has to be a clear changing of the guard. Also, we will need whatever we can get for Campbell in order to draft some players to fill out the roster.

[skin4ever]

If that is our standard, we should be looking to replace all 11 starters on offense. Not one of them played to their 1st-half level. Some of them dropped off precipitously. Campbell's drop off in my opinion was very slight, most of his problems were due to the problems of the other 10 guys. He had literally no one to throw to for 8 games (Moss disappeared and Cooley was increasingly having to be left in to block) and his running game fell off.
A QB cannot do it by himself. All the blame being thrown at Campbell is seriously misplaced.

If we do draft Sanchez, having Campbell on the team is just going to lead to a divided locker room and more problems. If Sanchez is our guy, we have to get rid of Campbell and let Sanchez be the guy. From what everyone says, Sanchez has plenty of charm and is a good leader, I have no doubt he would win over the locker room pretty quickly if he looks halfway decent in camp. I don't advocate making the switch, but if we make it, it has to be a clear changing of the guard. Also, we will need whatever we can get for Campbell in order to draft some players to fill out the roster.


First paragraph...I agree, the blame isnt solely on Campbell. The entire offense and coaching fell apart in the second half. But Campbell could be the easiest piece to upgrade from and also will have the most impact on the offense as the QB is the center of it. I think he got the raw deal, but the NFL is business.

second paragraph...Great point, i never thought about that. BUt i think that might be overcome, b/c of the person JC is and the players well maybe they will rally around him to help him finish strong. I dont see JC as being the problem, i dont think its in his nature to create such problems and it woudlnt be in his best interest to do so. I know thats a pipe dream and you are probably right, but my scenario would be the best gamble to get this team some multiple first day draft picks, despite our habit of trading them away.

[sinskin]

IMO This isnt Snyder or Vinny doing this at all... or at least starting it. Not in a million years would they look at other QBs without Coaches approval. If Zorn said JC was the QB .... then he would be the QB. It's Zorn doing this and for whatever reason this QB coach for 7 years and QB himself for years and now HC doesn't think JC is a starting caliber QB... period! Providing all of this isn't a smoke screen and there is some truth to all this Sanchez hipe.

You cannot ever ever ever convince me that if the Zorn wanted JC to start that Snyder and Vinnie would disregard that and go off and get Sanchez anyway.

[BurgundyNGold]

IMO This isnt Snyder or Vinny doing this at all... or at least starting it. Not in a million years would they look at other QBs without Coaches approval. If Zorn said JC was the QB .... then he would be the QB. It's Zorn doing this and for whatever reason this QB coach for 7 years and QB himself for years and now HC doesn't think JC is a starting caliber QB... period! Providing all of this isn't a smoke screen and there is some truth to all this Sanchez hipe.

You cannot ever ever ever convince me that if the Zorn wanted JC to start that Snyder and Vinnie would disregard that and go off and get Sanchez anyway.
Seriously, where have you been for the last 10 years? Snyderrato would not only disregard a coach's wishes, Snyderrato would dispose of the coach he didn't get with the program.

[ARParr]

Seriously, where have you been for the last 10 years? Snyderrato would not only disregard a coach's wishes, Snyderrato would dispose of the coach he didn't get with the program.

agreed. Snyder is a hands-on dictator and he calls all the shots. he's the one at the helm of this team, for good or ill. zorn has zero pull with regard to who gets signed & who doesn't. bill parcells might be a different story, but zorn is a wet rag. if the Redskins are pursuing Dirty Sanchez, it's because dan snyder thinks he's a "hot guy", to use his own words...

[LATrueRedskin]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/24/source-jets-maintain-interest-in-campbell/



(snip)



In Vinnnyese: we have a deal in place with the Jets lol

Yep. It's funny how us fans have zero trust and confidence in the Redskins' front office. I don't believe a word Snyder or Cerrato say.

[Skinzlover223]

agreed. Snyder is a hands-on dictator and he calls all the shots. he's the one at the helm of this team, for good or ill. zorn has zero pull with regard to who gets signed & who doesn't. bill parcells might be a different story, but zorn is a wet rag. if the Redskins are pursuing Dirty Sanchez, it's because dan snyder thinks he's a "hot guy", to use his own words...

Yes Sanchez is a big name and the "hot guy", but is it possible that this kid might be able to play football? That our blind Squirrel of FO found a nut. At this point the relationship is sour with JC, so let get Sanchez or wait and see if we can bradford, mccoy, tebow, snead. If the Jets will give us anything for him lets take it.

[ARParr]

At this point the relationship is sour with JC

yes, it's sour. but it didn't just go bad overnight for no reason. the front office has caused the relationship to sour by being duplicitous in their communications with Campbell while covertly pursuing other quarterbacks. true enough, that relationship is likely beyond salvaging at this point, and we might as well begin looking at other quarterbacks. unfortunately, it appears that we now have no other choice. it did not have to be this way though. the front office created this situation for themselves. very similar to thinking about buying a new car when you don't actually need one. the solution? just put your current ride to the flame and then say "oh well, my old car is now a pile of fiery rubble! i need a new car!" it's a self-created need. this sort of self-sabotage is not the way to long-term NFL success, in my humble opinion.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

IMO This isnt Snyder or Vinny doing this at all... or at least starting it. Not in a million years would they look at other QBs without Coaches approval. If Zorn said JC was the QB .... then he would be the QB. It's Zorn doing this and for whatever reason this QB coach for 7 years and QB himself for years and now HC doesn't think JC is a starting caliber QB... period! Providing all of this isn't a smoke screen and there is some truth to all this Sanchez hipe.

You cannot ever ever ever convince me that if the Zorn wanted JC to start that Snyder and Vinnie would disregard that and go off and get Sanchez anyway.

I agree. Snyder holds his coaches not named Gibbs in very high regard. He loves them and nurtures them and keeps them safe and warm./sarcasm

[Skinzlover223]

yes, it's sour. but it didn't just go bad overnight for no reason. the front office has caused the relationship to sour by being duplicitous in their communications with Campbell while covertly pursuing other quarterbacks. true enough, that relationship is likely beyond salvaging at this point, and we might as well begin looking at other quarterbacks. unfortunately, it appears that we now have no other choice. it did not have to be this way though. the front office created this situation for themselves. very similar to thinking about buying a new car when you don't actually need one. the solution? just put your current ride to the flame and then say "oh well, my old car is now a pile of fiery rubble! i need a new car!" it's a self-created need. this sort of self-sabotage is not the way to long-term NFL success, in my humble opinion.

I agree with some of your points. The front office is the cause of this problem and played it rather poorly. However Jason Campbell is a new car with a lot of problems! The FO was not looking to change a QB that was having probowl season, or was a top 10 QB in the league. I don't want to get into the argument or excuses of why JC is a great QB but everything around him sucks, he just has not performed in the NFL on our team. You can't be angry at the front office for wanting to look in another a direction.

[Brokenstriker]

the Skins have more than a few major issues to deal with on the roster ...

Major This Year:
- OLB ... they don't have a single NFL caliber OLB on the roster to fill Washington's hole

Less Major This Year:
- RT ... Jansen would need an unlikely improvement this season to shut the revolving door for pass rushers on the right side. The team says Heyer isn't the answer so essentially we will be starting a back-up or has-been at RT
- #1 WR ... Moss is probably better suited for #2 but until Thomas or Kelly step up there isn't anyone better for #1
- DE ... no pass rushing threat but fair role playing run stoppers ... essentially about the same as last year but perhaps Haynesworth effects this somehow
- OL ... time marches on and these guys are getting older ... next generation OL is not on the roster ... unless Dockery shakes off a lack luster career as a Bill and shows what many thought he could be during his first Skins stint

Minor this Year:
- RB ... would "like" to have a change of pace RB to complement Portis and don't have one ... slim chance the Bronco cast-off (forgot his name) might become this RB

Major Next Year:
- QB ... Campbell hasn't convinced many people that he's the QB to build around. Lots of excuses most probably fair but still he hasn't delivered like a long-term top QB is expected to. Next year they either have to cut him or pay him like a top shelf QB. Even with a surprisingly good year this season there isn't much on the resume to justify top money.
- OL ... age
- MLB ... age ... if Blades is really the future here then I'm missing something
- RB ... Portis' odometer and tackled-ometer are both rolling up some big numbers ... he isn't a Timex ... eventually he will stop ticking
- WR ... if they don't see starter quality in Thomas and/or Kelly ...

I could have missed some things but based on this ... I'd think at 13 you'd want to take the top OLB or a franchise QB. High risk on the QB given it would be Sanchez if anyone and he's only got one season on his resume (see same type of issue for Campbell). DE would be nice to have but compared to the issues the team is looking at (no OLB and no franchise QB for the future on the roster now) I'd think its only an option if you don't see a franchise starting OLB or QB on the board. Then I'd roll to OL.

Just thought I would test this by writing it out. Doesn't seem to sync up with the "best player available" approach, but it also doesn't sync up with the build the line first approach ... which I tend to think is the right thing. I guess its a hybrid mix of fix the problems if you see a solution ... then build the lines approach

all things considered ... I think I'd be looking at the USC OLBs.

[Skinzlover223]

the Skins have more than a few major issues to deal with on the roster ...

Major This Year:
- OLB ... they don't have a single NFL caliber OLB on the roster to fill Washington's hole

Less Major This Year:
- RT ... Jansen would need an unlikely improvement this season to shut the revolving door for pass rushers on the right side. The team says Heyer isn't the answer so essentially we will be starting a back-up or has-been at RT
- #1 WR ... Moss is probably better suited for #2 but until Thomas or Kelly step up there isn't anyone better for #1
- DE ... no pass rushing threat but fair role playing run stoppers ... essentially about the same as last year but perhaps Haynesworth effects this somehow
- OL ... time marches on and these guys are getting older ... next generation OL is not on the roster ... unless Dockery shakes off a lack luster career as a Bill and shows what many thought he could be during his first Skins stint

Minor this Year:
- RB ... would "like" to have a change of pace RB to complement Portis and don't have one ... slim chance the Bronco cast-off (forgot his name) might become this RB

Major Next Year:
- QB ... Campbell hasn't convinced many people that he's the QB to build around. Lots of excuses most probably fair but still he hasn't delivered like a long-term top QB is expected to. Next year they either have to cut him or pay him like a top shelf QB. Even with a surprisingly good year this season there isn't much on the resume to justify top money.
- OL ... age
- MLB ... age ... if Blades is really the future here then I'm missing something
- RB ... Portis' odometer and tackled-ometer are both rolling up some big numbers ... he isn't a Timex ... eventually he will stop ticking
- WR ... if they don't see starter quality in Thomas and/or Kelly ...

I could have missed some things but based on this ... I'd think at 13 you'd want to take the top OLB or a franchise QB. High risk on the QB given it would be Sanchez if anyone and he's only got one season on his resume (see same type of issue for Campbell). DE would be nice to have but compared to the issues the team is looking at (no OLB and no franchise QB for the future on the roster now) I'd think its only an option if you don't see a franchise starting OLB or QB on the board. Then I'd roll to OL.

Just thought I would test this by writing it out. Doesn't seem to sync up with the "best player available" approach, but it also doesn't sync up with the build the line first approach ... which I tend to think is the right thing. I guess its a hybrid mix of fix the problems if you see a solution ... then build the lines approach

all things considered ... I think I'd be looking at the USC OLBs.

So QB won't be a major need until next year? Is it a need this year at all?

[Brokenstriker]

So QB won't be a major need until next year? Is it a need this year at all?

If you want next year's starter to have one year with the Skins playbook and coaches before he starts ... yes

if you are OK starting a rookie QB next year (if you can draft a franchise QB next year), or a free-agent (but then why are they not locked up?) I guess you could wait until next year.

The only other option is to invest the $ required for a franchise QB in Campbell after this season ... and unless he comes up with a really impressive demonstration that he is one its probably as damning to a teams potential and future to pay for one that's not one.

actually ... if the Skins are thinking of possibly (probably) starting Sanchez at QB this season ... then they could fix lets say OLB or the lines and think about starting any of the 3 or so "franchise"-type QBs who should be coming out next season

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I agree with some of your points. The front office is the cause of this problem and played it rather poorly. However Jason Campbell is a new car with a lot of problems! The FO was not looking to change a QB that was having probowl season, or was a top 10 QB in the league. I don't want to get into the argument or excuses of why JC is a great QB but everything around him sucks, he just has not performed in the NFL on our team. You can't be angry at the front office for wanting to look in another a direction.

He is not at the top of the league, but he is not at the bottom of the league either. He is somewher in the middle. So, that does not make him a pressing problem. Think about all of our starters that are middle of the league for their position. Off the top of my head I would say Rabch, Randy Thomas, Dockery, Griffin, Andre Carter, Rocky, Rogers, Landry. Are we going to upgrade all of those guys too?

Meanwhile our SLB, RT and DE opposite Carter are at the very bottom of the league. Look a great QB can hide a lot of other deficiencies, but if you are going to bet the farm (multiple picks and a lot of cap room), you better be sure the QB is a giant upgrade. How many QB's out there are giant upgrades over Campbell? How many of those guys are available?

[firehawk157]

He is not at the top of the league, but he is not at the bottom of the league either. He is somewher in the middle. So, that does not make him a pressing problem. Think about all of our starters that are middle of the league for their position. Off the top of my head I would say Rabch, Randy Thomas, Dockery, Griffin, Andre Carter, Rocky, Rogers, Landry. Are we going to upgrade all of those guys too?

Meanwhile our SLB, RT and DE opposite Carter are at the very bottom of the league. Look a great QB can hide a lot of other deficiencies, but if you are going to bet the farm (multiple picks and a lot of cap room), you better be sure the QB is a giant upgrade. How many QB's out there are giant upgrades over Campbell? How many of those guys are available?
Good point. But let me ask you if you could upgrade any average position to one of excellence, which one would it be?

[Brokenstriker]

He is not at the top of the league, but he is not at the bottom of the league either. He is somewher in the middle. So, that does not make him a pressing problem. Think about all of our starters that are middle of the league for their position. Off the top of my head I would say Rabch, Randy Thomas, Dockery, Griffin, Andre Carter, Rocky, Rogers, Landry. Are we going to upgrade all of those guys too?

Meanwhile our SLB, RT and DE opposite Carter are at the very bottom of the league. Look a great QB can hide a lot of other deficiencies, but if you are going to bet the farm (multiple picks and a lot of cap room), you better be sure the QB is a giant upgrade. How many QB's out there are giant upgrades over Campbell? How many of those guys are available?

I agree with your observations but I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion ... acknowledging that its debatable ... a list of the QBs who are upgrades over Campbell is probably fairly closely aligned with the QBs who will be playing 2 or more games in the playoffs. Your observation that he's in the middle of the pack (which I'd agree with for the most part) lines up with the Skins relative to the rest of the league ... middle of the pack ... home for the holidays. If you want the team to be at the top of the pack QB probably has more to do with that than any one player ... and if you want some seasoning for that top of the pack QB you'll need to have him this season while Campbell plays for a contract probably with another team or maybe but doubtfully the Skins. Alternatively if you don't want to have some seasoning for your new top of the pack QB ... you could wait until after this season. Either way I think its a forgone conclusion that the Skins will not be investing in a top of the pack contract for Campbell after this season ...

so kind of a Saw-esque dilemma ... which thing do you fix? The one that sinks you this season (e.g., OLB, RT, DL) or the one that sinks you next season and perhaps 3 - 4 seasons after that.

[wide_awake]

He is not at the top of the league, but he is not at the bottom of the league either. He is somewhere in the middle. So, that does not make him a pressing problem. Think about all of our starters that are middle of the league for their position. Off the top of my head I would say Rabch, Randy Thomas, Dockery, Griffin, Andre Carter, Rocky, Rogers, Landry. Are we going to upgrade all of those guys too?


Campbell is in the bottom half of the league at his position...

All 13 of these QBs are definitely better than him:

-Brady
-Brees
-Warner
-Rodgers
-Rivers
-P. Manning
-McNabb
-Pennington
-Ryan
-Roethlisberger
-E. Manning
-Flacco
-Edwards (see pre-concussion Edwards)

These four QBs are arguably better than him:

-Matt Schaub
-Jay Cutler
-Matt Cassel
-Jake Delhomme

Some will make a case these QBs are better than him too:

-David Garrard
-Kyle Orton


In my opinion, if you divide all starting NFL QBs into three tiers, he is in the top of the bottom 1/3rd tier.

It's not just my opinion either, based on the lack of interest by other teams.

[skin4ever]

Campbell is in the bottom half of the league at his position...

In my opinion, if you divide all starting NFL QBs into three tiers, he is in the top of the bottom 1/3rd tier.

It's not just my opinion either, based on the lack of interest by other teams.

There are teams in this league that wouldnt even trade for P. Manning or Brady. I dont see how lack of interest equates to JC ranking in the NFL. I am no supporter of JC and agree that the list of Qb's I would rather have is longer than the list of QB's i wouldnt(probably only because i have watched every single game JC has played in and have critiqued and analyzed him much more than anyother), but if you put a cost analysis(as we arent talking madden or Fantasy football) the list of Qb's that would be an upgrade for the price is much shorter.

I will certainly disagree with your assessment that Cutler is only arguably better. And i would rather have Campbell that Gerrard. that guy belongs onthe argonauts. Jury is still out on flacco(i think his defense and RB did a lot more for him than he did himself).

[Skinzlover223]

Campbell is in the bottom half of the league at his position...

All 13 of these QBs are definitely better than him:

-Brady
-Brees
-Warner
-Rodgers
-Rivers
-P. Manning
-McNabb
-Pennington
-Ryan
-Roethlisberger
-E. Manning
-Flacco
-Edwards (see pre-concussion Edwards)

These four QBs are arguably better than him:

-Matt Schaub
-Jay Cutler
-Matt Cassel
-Jake Delhomme

Some will make a case these QBs are better than him too:

-David Garrard
-Kyle Orton


In my opinion, if you divide all starting NFL QBs into three tiers, he is in the top of the bottom 1/3rd tier.

It's not just my opinion either, based on the lack of interest by other teams.

This makes me depressed but its kinda funny. I would put Trent Edwards in the arguably better, other than that this is spot on.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Good point. But let me ask you if you could upgrade any average position to one of excellence, which one would it be?

QB. If Sanchez is there at 13 and they take him, I am not overly depressed about it. I will be disappointed that we are relying on the current roster for SLB and RT regardless of who is lining up under center, but I can understand Snyder getting the guy he truly covets. However, if they trade two #1 picks and a third rounder to go get him and then sign him to $30M guaranteed, I am going to be pretty upset about it until Sanchez takes us to the playoffs, if that ever happens, because we will have committed so much to such an unproven guy.

IMO, I can see committing the #13 pick and the money associated with that pick for Sanchez (who may or may not be an upgrade to Campbell), but to sell the whole farm to go get him would be downright reckless.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Campbell is in the bottom half of the league at his position...

All 13 of these QBs are definitely better than him:

-Brady
-Brees
-Warner
-Rodgers
-Rivers
-P. Manning
-McNabb
-Pennington
-Ryan
-Roethlisberger
-E. Manning
-Flacco
-Edwards (see pre-concussion Edwards)

These four QBs are arguably better than him:

-Matt Schaub
-Jay Cutler
-Matt Cassel
-Jake Delhomme

Some will make a case these QBs are better than him too:

-David Garrard
-Kyle Orton


In my opinion, if you divide all starting NFL QBs into three tiers, he is in the top of the bottom 1/3rd tier.

It's not just my opinion either, based on the lack of interest by other teams.

This is my opinion for next year only, because everything changes year to year, slumps, injuries, etc.

Guys who are better
Brees
Manning
Brady
Warner
Rothlisberger
Romo
Eli (but subject to change depending on how he does without Plax)
Rivers
McNabb
Cutler
Rodgers
Hasselbeck (but one more injury puts him on the list below)


Guys who are not better than him (same level or below)
Cassel
Pennington
Gerrard
Ryan (while impressive for a rookie (statistically pretty equal), need more than one year)
Flacco (see above)
Delhomme
Schaub
Orton
Bulger (nobody is living on reputation more than him)
Edwards
Hill
Russell
Frerotte or anyone else QB'ing Minnesota

[joethefan]

Well, in that case, I can't expect Vinny to tell JC he's not the guy until after he has something already in place. That's just dumb. Where he really erred was letting it get out that he was in pursuit of Cutler/Sanchez before it became a sure thing.
So vinnie isn't that just dumb?....


IMO This isnt Snyder or Vinny doing this at all... or at least starting it. Not in a million years would they look at other QBs without Coaches approval. If Zorn said JC was the QB .... then he would be the QB. It's Zorn doing this and for whatever reason this QB coach for 7 years and QB himself for years and now HC doesn't think JC is a starting caliber QB... period! Providing all of this isn't a smoke screen and there is some truth to all this Sanchez hipe.

You cannot ever ever ever convince me that if the Zorn wanted JC to start that Snyder and Vinnie would disregard that and go off and get Sanchez anyway.

you should stop hanging at the bus stop and wake up.that proves you're not up to speed with your team...wake up

Seriously, where have you been for the last 10 years? Snyderrato would not only disregard a coach's wishes, Snyderrato would dispose of the coach he didn't get with the program.

exactly!!!! where in the world has he been?

cant have it both ways, Didnt Ramsey start a season as a starter(won the job), got minorly injured in game one, and then lost his starting status for the rest of the season. That wasnt a sham???? JC isnt Zorn's guy anyway.. Ramsey did everything they asked of him too...no difference.

PS-I counted at least 4 buts in your argument after you said YES. Thats a lot of buts for someone claiming situations are different.

doesn't matter if i put 10 buts in there...ramsey didn't have to learn 3 systems in 4 years.....and ramsey wasn't Gibbs guy....Zorn told Jason he was "his" guy about three weeks prior to this post....that should say and mean more than enough.....did gibbs give ramsey his stamp of approval like zorn did? No...if he did why was ramsey pulled after he got injured. Everyone knew Brunell beat out ramsey in that preseason...and to get replaced after it was ok to go back in the game, to never come back.... that should have told you all you needed to know....