Specter to Switch Parties?

[BurgundyNGold]

Listed as "Breaking News" on WaPo.

Specter To Switch Parties

Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter will switch his party affiliation from Republican to Democrat and announced today that he will run in 2010 as a Democrat, according to sources informed on the decision.

Specter's decision would give Democrats a 60 seat filibuster proof majority in the Senate assuming Democrat Al Franken is eventually sworn in as the next Senator from Minnesota. (Former Sen. Norm Coleman is appealing Franken's victory in the state Supreme Court.)

"I have decided to run for re-election in 2010 in the Democratic primary," said Specter in a statement. "I am ready, willing and anxious to take on all comers and have my candidacy for re-election determined in a general election."

"Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right. Last year, more than 200,000 Republicans in Pennsylvania changed their registration to become Democrats. I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans."

Specter as a Democrat would also fundamentally alter the 2010 calculus in Pennsylvania as he was expected to face a difficult primary challenge next year from former Rep. Pat Toomey. The only announced Democrat in the race is former National Constitution Center head Joe Torsella although several other candidates are looking at the race.



Source (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/specter-to-switch-parties.html)

[fent]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/specter-to-switch-parties.html?hpid=topnews

that sucks.

[Ibleedburgundy]

So the people of Pennsylvania would essentially be voting between two Republicans in the 2010 election. The Dems of PA have a great chance to get a legitimate Democrat in there. I don't know why they should settle for Spector.

[fent]

So the people of Pennsylvania would essentially be voting between two Republicans in the 2010 election. The Dems of PA have a great chance to get a legitimate Democrat in there. I don't know why they should settle for Spector.

the dems and independents like him. he barely beat out Toomey 6 years ago and then ran away with the general by 11 points while Bush lost to Kerry by 2 points. he'll still have to win a primary either way so the dems will have an opportunity to say "no."

[Ibleedburgundy]

the dems and independents like him. he barely beat out Toomey 6 years ago and then ran away with the general by 11 points while Bush lost to Kerry by 2 points. he'll still have to win a primary either way so the dems will have an opportunity to say "no."

Yeah Dems will have a chance to say no. But he has name recognition etc. so it might be easier said than done.

Spector has voted with the Republicans roughly 67% of the time. PA seems to have swung left since 2004 given the substantial victories of Casey (18%) and Obama (10.4%). I don't see Toomey's 'run to the right' strategy as something the Dems should fear. Rather it just seems to be something Spector should fear in his primary.

I just see this as a victory for Republicans because instead of getting someone who votes Dem 90% of the time, they get someone who has voted Republican 67% of the time. Although going forward that 67% would likely go down.

[CNYSkinFan]

the victory for dems is that it means a 60-40 house with Franken

[CNYSkinFan]

which means no filibuster on Obama nominees ....I imagine the 675 voting rating will lower quite drastically over the next two years...

still cant forgive Specter for the magic bullet theory lol

[akhhorus]

Coryrn's dumb ass is the cause of this. He's picking fights he shouldn't be starting.

[CNYSkinFan]

Coryrn's dumb ass is the cause of this. He's picking fights he shouldn't be starting.
Big John.....standing up to his fellow republicans and causing them to switch parties lol

[akhhorus]

Big John.....standing up to his fellow republicans and causing them to switch parties lol

Specter won't be the last.

[CNYSkinFan]

Specter won't be the last.
Snow....maybe. Any senator outside of the South that is A GOP is at serious risk right now

[akhhorus]

Snow....maybe. Any senator outside of the South that is A GOP is at serious risk right now

Specter can't protect Snowe and Collins anymore.

[CNYSkinFan]

Specter can't protect Snowe and Collins anymore.
If the dems can pull them both coming over together it would be a monster coup.

and kinda sexy gettign two ladies at once

[fent]

If the dems can pull them both coming over together it would be a monster coup.

and kinda sexy gettign two ladies at once

i don't know many people that would call a Mainer sexy, especially Snowe, but whatever floats your boat ;)

[akhhorus]

If the dems can pull them both coming over together it would be a monster coup.

and kinda sexy gettign two ladies at once

I believe that's called a Maine Lobster Turnover lmao.

[BurgundyNGold]

i don't know many people that would call a Mainer sexy, especially Snowe, but whatever floats your boat ;)
Have you ever been to Syracuse? :D

[CNYSkinFan]

I believe that's called a Maine Lobster Turnover lmao.
2 lobsters in the bedroom are never a good thing....

[CNYSkinFan]

Have you ever been to Syracuse? :D
HEY!!!!


but touche....my wife excluded of course lol

[Ibleedburgundy]

Did you guys see the Onion headline the other day? "Last Few Republican Senators Form Roman Tortiose." lol

http://www.theonion.com/content/from_print/last_few_republican_senators

[BurgundyNGold]

HEY!!!!


but touche....my wife excluded of course lol
Of course. I thought she was an import to central NY. :D

[CNYSkinFan]

Of course. I thought she was an import to central NY. :D
born and bred lol. How I got that lucky I will never know.

Our fine looking imports come through SU....and some get stuck here...that is when we strike.

Hey at least we aren't buffalo

[fent]

born and bred lol. How I got that lucky I will never know.

Our fine looking imports come through SU....and some get stuck here...that is when we strike.

Hey at least we aren't buffalo

is it bad that my first thought of buffalo is ALWAYS this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZe9mzFxF4

[fent]

Snowe chimes in.

http://www.alternet.org/wire/12/snowegophasabandonedprinciplesspecterswitchdevasta ting

[BurgundyNGold]

born and bred lol. How I got that lucky I will never know.

Our fine looking imports come through SU....and some get stuck here...that is when we strike.
:lol1:

The headline reads "Mace sales soar in Syracuse. Birth control, not so much.", lol.

Hey at least we aren't buffalo
You've always got that, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

Snowe chimes in.

http://www.alternet.org/wire/12/snowegophasabandonedprinciplesspecterswitchdevasta ting
It would help if the GOP knew what it's principle were. And actually honored them, I mean. It's going to be a long, hard climb back.

[akhhorus]

It would help if the GOP knew what it's principle were. And actually honored them, I mean. It's going to be a long, hard climb back.

Lindsey Graham came out and finally said the obvious, that the GOP can't be the party of the south or it will be irrelevant. But then he kept talking and hinted that all the Red state dem members of congress should consider switching parties.

[RedskinsDave]

What a douche. Switch next time you're up for election. Doing it like this means he stole votes from people last time. What an effin clown.

[BurgundyNGold]

Lindsey Graham came out and finally said the obvious, that the GOP can't be the party of the south or it will be irrelevant. But then he kept talking and hinted that all the Red state dem members of congress should consider switching parties.
And he did this standing in the bed of a pickup truck with a gun rack in it while dressed up like a Civil War re-enactor, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

What a douche. Switch next time you're up for election. Doing it like this means he stole votes from people last time. What an effin clown.
I somewhat agree with you, but this is th only time to do it if he wants to have any chance of raising money to run in the primary. He's only got about 18 months before the next election.

[akhhorus]

And he did this standing in the bed of a pickup truck with a gun rack in it while dressed up like a Civil War re-enactor, lol.

While beating up on a minority with a rack of bbq ribs lol

[BurgundyNGold]

While beating up on a minority with a rack of bbq ribs lol
:lol1: :lol1:

Terrible mental picture but easily envisioned, lmao.

[Fathead]

This is possibly the worst news I've heard in a while. Not that I'm a Specter fan or anything, but this is the antithesis of how American government is supposed to work.



This is where Obama is going to lose me or gain me as a supporter.

[Ibleedburgundy]

This is where Obama is going to lose me or gain me as a supporter.

Really? Seems like kind of a minor issue to base your support on. There are going to be huge battles over healthcare, how to end the wars, how to formulate future budgets, social security/entitlement reform, negotiations with Iran and North Korea, etc. And this is really more of a Senate issue than a POTUS issue.

That said, what exactly is it that Obama could do over the Spector issue that would convert you into voting for him 3.5 years from now?

[akhhorus]

Really? Seems like kind of a minor issue to base your support on. There are going to be huge battles over healthcare, how to end the wars, how to formulate future budgets, social security/entitlement reform, negotiations with Iran and North Korea, etc. And this is really more of a Senate issue than a POTUS issue.

With Specter, a big supporter of health care reform and of this non-mandatory government health care plan to compete with private insurance-on the left side of the Senate, there shouldn't be much of a fight over healthcare.

[Fathead]

With a filibuster proof senate, and a majority house, I want to see if Obama will exercise restraint.


Hence my statement.

[Ibleedburgundy]

With Specter, a big supporter of health care reform and of this non-mandatory government health care plan to compete with private insurance-on the left side of the Senate, there shouldn't be much of a fight over healthcare.

In that light this move makes a lot of sense.

But I would still anticipate and lot of haggling even within the Democratic party, if for no other reason than the size and complexity and the amount of interest groups involved.

[akhhorus]

In that light this move makes a lot of sense.

But I would still anticipate and lot of haggling even within the Democratic party, if for no other reason than the size and complexity and the amount of interest groups involved.

I doubt that. If they're doing that idea(plus the prescription drug plan), I suspect that there will be some GOP support in both houses. The anti-abortion groups were threatening GOP senators over Sebalius to the point where the WH didn't know if she would survive a cloture vote, and she got confirmed 65-34 last night I believe.

[fent]

I doubt that. If they're doing that idea(plus the prescription drug plan), I suspect that there will be some GOP support in both houses. The anti-abortion groups were threatening GOP senators over Sebalius to the point where the WH didn't know if she would survive a cloture vote, and she got confirmed 65-34 last night I believe.

the pro-life groups are especially rabid lately. they're attacking my old boss because he endorsed Hutchison for governor. there aren't many folks in the Congress that are more pro-life than he is but because of an endorsement, he ended up on the crap-list.

[BurgundyNGold]

the pro-life groups are especially rabid lately. they're attacking my old boss because he endorsed Hutchison for governor. there aren't many folks in the Congress that are more pro-life than he is but because of an endorsement, he ended up on the crap-list.
It's the raucous social fringe groups like these that are responsible for at least half of the disaffection America has for the GOP right now. The party would do well to adopt a more populist conservative platform and ditch these social issues in the press. Like I was telling Akh, the best place to advance or retain a social agenda is in the courts. Conservatives still have SCOTUS but without ditching these social whackos, time will work against them there too.

[akhhorus]

It's the raucous social fringe groups like these that are responsible for at least half of the disaffection America has for the GOP right now. The party would do well to adopt a more populist conservative platform and ditch these social issues in the press. Like I was telling Akh, the best place to advance or retain a social agenda is in the courts. Conservatives still have SCOTUS but without ditching these social whackos, time will work against them there too.

Yeah, but that goes against the "judical activism" attacks.

Frum is dead on:
http://newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=13e86822-61d6-459a-9aab-4fc32fc9acef

Which means that Democrats won’t need to resort to unorthodox tactics to push, say, their healthcare bill through Congress. They’ll have the votes.

If the Democrats do succeed in pushing through national health insurance, they really should set aside a little extra money to erect a statue to Pat Toomey. They couldn’t have done it without him!

Pat Toomey is of course the former president of the Club for Growth who planned to challenge Arlen Specter in the 2010 Pennsylvania Republican primary. Polls showed Toomey well ahead – not because he is so hugely popular in the state, but because the Pennsylvania GOP has shriveled to a small, ideologically intense core. Toomey now looks likely to gain the nomination he has sought – and then to be crushed by Specter or some other Democrat next November.

The Specter defection is too severe a catastrophe to qualify as a “wake-up call.” His defection is the thing we needed the wake-up call to warn us against! For a long time, the loudest and most powerful voices in the conservative world have told us that people like Specter aren’t real Republicans – that they don’t belong in the party. Now he’s gone, and with him the last Republican leverage within any of the elected branches of government.

For years, many in the conservative world have wished for an ideologically purer GOP. Their wish has been granted. Happy?

Let’s take this moment to nail some colors to the mast. I submit it is better for conservatives to have 60% sway within a majority party than to have 100% control of a minority party. And until and unless there is an honored place made in the Republican party for people who think like Arlen Specter, we will remain a minority party.

[BurgundyNGold]

Yeah, but that goes against the "judical activism" attacks.
Like hypocrisy is above a politician, lol?

Frum is dead on:
http://newmajority.com/ShowScroll.aspx?ID=13e86822-61d6-459a-9aab-4fc32fc9acef

If I were Steele, I would engineer a mass of Republican defections to the Democrats in order to weaken and split the Dems from within. It may seem heresy, but to inject such chaos might be the best long term strategy. The GOP is dead. The moderate Reps and Blue dog Dems would eventually split off from the Progressives and form another party without the baggage of the social ideologues. ;)

[akhhorus]

If I were Richard Steel, I would engineer a mass of Republican defections to the Democrats in order to split the Dems from within. It may seem heresy, but to inject such chaos might be the best long term strategy. The GOP is dead. The moderate Reps and Blue dog Dems would eventually split off from the Progressives and form another party without the baggage of the social ideologues. ;)

Steele is done. The RNC is moving to block him from spending money without the executive committee's approval. Which effectively means they're firing him without the messy headline of actually firing him.

[BurgundyNGold]

Steele is done. The RNC is moving to block him from spending money without the executive committee's approval. Which effectively means they're firing him without the messy headline of actually firing him.
None of that makes my plan any less devilishly genius, lol.

Long live "All Hail Fent!"

:D

[dj_stouty]

The GOP is dead.

Yes it is. Break out the Elephant Gun~!

[RedskinsDave]

If it is dead, at least we're leaving the country in the hands of people who hate it so much. Maybe all those folks who were crying that we can go the way of the Roman Empire were right, they just had the wrong party steering the ship.

[dj_stouty]

So is this the part where the Republicans pretend they hated him all along and the Democrats pretend they secretly liked him all along?

Just another walk in the Political Park. Such BS from both sides right now...

[CNYSkinFan]

for the gopers on this board, is this more or less of a chokc to you then Jim Jieffords.

Personally I am not a fan of turncoats...they may turn our way but they are still turncoats. At least though he did it when the public will have a chance to vote on his decision. I have seen some who do it immediately after a re-election campaign. THat takes balls.

[Keino]

If it is dead, at least we're leaving the country in the hands of people who hate it so much. Maybe all those folks who were crying that we can go the way of the Roman Empire were right, they just had the wrong party steering the ship.

I understand your anger and your frustration, but that's a bit uncalled for. Don't you dare claim that you do not question the patriotism of those on the left after you make statements like this.

[RedskinsDave]

I understand your anger and your frustration, but that's a bit uncalled for. Don't you dare claim that you do not question the patriotism of those on the left after you make statements like this.

I have and will question the patriotism of the man you elected and his band of merry apologists. That is who I am referring to.

[RedskinsDave]

Suck it Spector:


The Senate last night stripped Sen. Arlen Specter (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/s000709) (Pa.) of his seniority on committees, a week after the 29-year veteran of the chamber quit the Republican Party to join the Democrats.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050504344.html

If you lie with dogs, don't complain when you get fleas.

[akhhorus]

Suck it Spector:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050504344.html

If you lie with dogs, don't complain when you get fleas.

He'll get it back after 2010. He might even get the Appropriations chair.

[fent]

for the gopers on this board, is this more or less of a chokc to you then Jim Jieffords.

Personally I am not a fan of turncoats...they may turn our way but they are still turncoats. At least though he did it when the public will have a chance to vote on his decision. I have seen some who do it immediately after a re-election campaign. THat takes balls.

i was more shocked by jeffords simply because his decision was also influenced by the knowledge that a change would affect the balance of power in the Senate. here it was mostly political survival and didn't do much to the balance.

[shally]

Suck it Spector:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/05/AR2009050504344.html

If you lie with dogs, don't complain when you get fleas.

on the other hand, he did recommend that norm coleman be seated because he is Jewish !!

what a turd spector is..

[RedskinsDave]

i was more shocked by jeffords simply because his decision was also influenced by the knowledge that a change would affect the balance of power in the Senate. here it was mostly political survival and didn't do much to the balance.

Filibuster proof socialism?

[fent]

Filibuster proof socialism?

i personally don't see Specter being that reliable a vote for cloture. he takes more pride in being independently minded than party affiliation. and honestly, between he, collins, and snowe, they were going to find the 60 votes on things they really wanted to move anyway.

[shally]

i personally don't see Specter being that reliable a vote for cloture. he takes more pride in being independently minded than party affiliation. and honestly, between he, collins, and snowe, they were going to find the 60 votes on things they really wanted to move anyway.

i think this is setting the stage for some really aggressive health care reform now.. the votes are there, i think..

[akhhorus]

i think this is setting the stage for some really aggressive health care reform now.. the votes are there, i think..

The insurance companies are already trying to bargain. They've offered to take any regulation congress wants now to try and forestall this government insurance alternative plan. They should offer to deal with the alternative plan in exchange for fully funded government prescription drugs(which they can make good money on).

[RedskinsDave]

So will we be over 50% income tax by the time they're done?

[shally]

The insurance companies are already trying to bargain. They've offered to take any regulation congress wants now to try and forestall this government insurance alternative plan. They should offer to deal with the alternative plan in exchange for fully funded government prescription drugs(which they can make good money on).

just like AEG and Bof A they are "too big" to fail..they will have some inclusion, at least to begin with

[shally]

So will we be over 50% income tax by the time they're done?

the way you boil crawfish is to heat the water slowly.. same will happen to the american taxpayer.. incremental tax-boil will begin as soon as the "second great depression" is officially over

[akhhorus]

just like AEG and Bof A they are "too big" to fail..they will have some inclusion, at least to begin with

Both sides should realize that the Gov can fix health care(and provide an affordable alternative to private insurance) and the health insurers can make their money as the outsourced providers for the gov health alternative plan on a regional or state-by-state basis.

[shally]

Both sides should realize that the Gov can fix health care(and provide an affordable alternative to private insurance) and the health insurers can make their money as the outsourced providers for the gov health alternative plan on a regional or state-by-state basis.


that is fine, as long as the government doesnt insist on monopolistic control, completely.. there will have to be rules maintaining consistency from state to state, but one size does not fit all

at the conference i just went to there was a lot of talk about how the number of MRI centers are going to plummet, and the Stark laws are going to be expanded to include them quickly.. the number of imaging studies will fall, and that will carry with it the number of procedures based upon those results that wont be forthcoming.. the insurance plans wont mind that one bit, as for the most part, they are all about denial of care anyway

[akhhorus]

that is fine, as long as the government doesnt insist on monopolistic control, completely.. there will have to be rules maintaining consistency from state to state, but one size does not fit all

Yes, but you have to have a universal set of guidelines or its just a new version of State Medicare(which would effectively go away if this plan goes through: the states will just sign up their medicare patients for it to save money, which I think is one of the points of this proposal). The Fed would be better off just outsource any alternative plan to the pre-existing structure, as long as the private insurer will follow the Fed guidelines for care/price.

at the conference i just went to there was a lot of talk about how the number of MRI centers are going to plummet, and the Stark laws are going to be expanded to include them quickly.. the number of imaging studies will fall, and that will carry with it the number of procedures based upon those results that wont be forthcoming.. the insurance plans wont mind that one bit, as for the most part, they are all about denial of care anyway

Who knows, depends totally on the final plan that passes. If there is a gov alternative health plan, insurance companies have to offer better service and/or cheaper prices to still compete with it(which is the entire point of it), so I can logically make the case either way about how care would change.

[shally]

Yes, but you have to have a universal set of guidelines or its just a new version of State Medicare(which would effectively go away if this plan goes through: the states will just sign up their medicare patients for it to save money, which I think is one of the points of this proposal). The Fed would be better off just outsource any alternative plan to the pre-existing structure, as long as the private insurer will follow the Fed guidelines for care/price.



Who knows, depends totally on the final plan that passes. If there is a gov alternative health plan, insurance companies have to offer better service and/or cheaper prices to still compete with it(which is the entire point of it), so I can logically make the case either way about how care would change.


a lot of the drive for the MRI's is coming from docs putting intheir own units and then self referring.. you can do your own xrays, and that is how MRI"S are justified..PT is a gray area for self referral.

but few if any of the MRI's would stay in business if docs couldnt do their own patients.. the radiologists and hospitals would love to see this happen because they are losing studies by the thousands.. and there is validity to the claim that more studies are definitely being done. the question remains whether this is a good thing or bad thing but no question, it generates more procedures based upon the results.. the fastest way to curtail the number of procedures is to prevent the studies which reveal the "problem".
you cant get paid as easily if you do something without a specific study confirming it.. so it would definitely have a chilling effect upon the surgeons...and that is clearly a desired result from the payer point of view

[akhhorus]

a lot of the drive for the MRI's is coming from docs putting intheir own units and then self referring.. you can do your own xrays, and that is how MRI"S are justified..PT is a gray area for self referral.

but few if any of the MRI's would stay in business if docs couldnt do their own patients.. the radiologists and hospitals would love to see this happen because they are losing studies by the thousands.. and there is validity to the claim that more studies are definitely being done. the question remains whether this is a good thing or bad thing but no question, it generates more procedures based upon the results.. the fastest way to curtail the number of procedures is to prevent the studies which reveal the "problem".
you cant get paid as easily if you do something without a specific study confirming it.. so it would definitely have a chilling effect upon the surgeons...and that is clearly a desired result from the payer point of view

I hear what you're saying. I just don't know if government control of anything would change anything. I can make a good case that the government plan--even as just an alternative--would change the focus to reducing costs across the board, but I also can make an equally good case that the alternative plan would force the private insurers to promote how good their coverage is(and follow through with said better coverage) and that the govt plan wouldn't mess with doctor's recommendations because of political considerations(no one wants to deal with angry voters who aren't getting good coverage).

[shally]

I hear what you're saying. I just don't know if government control of anything would change anything. I can make a good case that the government plan--even as just an alternative--would change the focus to reducing costs across the board, but I also can make an equally good case that the alternative plan would force the private insurers to promote how good their coverage is(and follow through with said better coverage) and that the govt plan wouldn't mess with doctor's recommendations because of political considerations(no one wants to deal with angry voters who aren't getting good coverage).

definitely a work in progress.. the Stark rules are still the primary way the government exerts control over the building of additional centers or hospitals

and i am sure the thrust at the beginning will be to prove there has been no fall off inthe quality of care.. they wont be able to sell it to the public if that is not the perception.. that is one of the reasons why most of the public health hospitals shut down in past decades.. nobody believed the care there was any good.. the VA system almost went under for the same reason, but now the care has been upgraded, no matter what some of the horror stories might say..

[akhhorus]

definitely a work in progress.. the Stark rules are still the primary way the government exerts control over the building of additional centers or hospitals

and i am sure the thrust at the beginning will be to prove there has been no fall off inthe quality of care.. they wont be able to sell it to the public if that is not the perception.. that is one of the reasons why most of the public health hospitals shut down in past decades.. nobody believed the care there was any good.. the VA system almost went under for the same reason, but now the care has been upgraded, no matter what some of the horror stories might say..

Thats a good comparison. If you have a problem with your VA care now, you call your Congressman and your problems tend to disappear(unless you're crazy or making something up). I could see that happening with a govt. health plan and the govt(regardless of who's in charge) will want overall care to be the priority.

It all depends on the bill that's passed and how its set up.

[MagicOPromotion]

I have a pair of these garbage Pressure Switches at home that say they are 150psi but really are 135psi from what my gauges say.

So who makes a good 150psi or 175psi fixed switch?