Samuels Sees Greatness In Orakpo

[hogs86]

This comes from ES I thought it was a great read on Orakpo. Lets hope he will be as good as Samuels thinks.

It’s quickly apparent to anyone who has attended the Washington Redskins’ 2009 training camp that linebacker Brian Orakpo is not your typical rookie.

While most college kids look out of place and hesitant as they adjust to the speed and tempo of the NFL game, Orakpo is seemingly leaps and bounds ahead of the standard learning curve, which is noteworthy because he’s still in the first week of his first professional training camp.

“You know, I’ll tell you, this young kid is going to be awesome at this level,” said offensive tackle Chris Samuels. “I’m working against him and he beat me a few times out there. I’m just trying to get back into the groove of things and he’s coming out fired up as a young pup. He’s going to be awesome, and I tell you what – I’m definitely glad to be working against him. He’s definitely going to help me get better.”

Wait a minute. We’re talking about Chris Samuels, a six-time Pro Bowler. And here he is, telling us that some rookie who just signed his first NFL contract less than a week ago is already so good that he’s making Samuels step up his game

“Oh, definitely, I’ve got to step it up,” he said. “Any time you go against anyone out here, they’re pros so you’ve got to step it up, but like I said, he’s definitely good. He’s going to be a great one. I compare him to DeMarcus Ware already, with his speed, quickness and power. He’s a tough guy.”

Normally we’d take offense to Samuels comparing a Redskin to a Dallas Cowboy, but Ware did lead the league with 20 sacks a year ago, so we’ll let it slide. And on top of that, Samuels is on record saying Ware is one of the toughest matchups he faces in the NFL.

Link http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2009/08/03/samuels-sees-greatness-in-orakpo/

[Dolla Bill]

Interesting. Didn't know his high school team modeled themselves after the Redskins. Good find.

[shally]

CS isnt usually that effusive in his praise about the defense.. must be showing a lot to get that kind of response

[VegasSkinsFan]

CS isnt usually that effusive in his praise about the defense.. must be showing a lot to get that kind of response

Every day i am reading how Orakpo is blowing by CS.

[sinskin]

Does this mean he needs to be at DE ....? Or is he better used at LB ... after what CS says?

I hope we didn't mis- diagnose a player again here.

[shally]

Every day i am reading how Orakpo is blowing by CS.

yeah..lol... either orakpo is something special, or samuels is leadfooted..

[BurgundyNGold]

Does this mean he needs to be at DE ....? Or is he better used at LB ... after what CS says?

I hope we didn't mis- diagnose a player again here.
Give it a while. He was drafted as a speed pass rusher, so it's expected that he'll be, well, a speedy pass rusher. Let's see how he's used and how real life opposing offenses counter that, if they can.

[shally]

Give it a while. He was drafted as a speed pass rusher, so it's expected that he'll be, well, a speedy pass rusher. Let's see how he's used and how real life opposing offenses counter that, if they can.

+1

they are finding out how best to utilize his talents right now., cant wait to see him in a game situation

[LATrueRedskin]

yeah..lol... either orakpo is something special, or samuels is leadfooted..

I think the former. I have full confidence in Chris Samuels, and I don't believe he'll completely lose his dominance in one offseason. It may just be taking some time for him to get warmed up, and he may have lost a little step in his game, but I believe he'll still perform at a Pro Bowl level. That's why hearing this about Orakpo is very encouraging.

[shally]

I think the former. I have full confidence in Chris Samuels, and I don't believe he'll completely lose his dominance in one offseason. It may just be taking some time for him to get warmed up, and he may have lost a little step in his game, but I believe he'll still perform at a Pro Bowl level. That's why hearing this about Orakpo is very encouraging.

i was just being a wise-azz.. seriously, i agree that if samuels thinks highly of orakpo, that is good enough for me.. this is a guy who has lined up against some of the best over the years.. he knows talent

[CarMike]

If he turns out to be half the player D. Ware is, I'll gladly eat my crow.

Very good news to hear from someone like Chris S.

[dj_stouty]

If he turns out to be half the player D. Ware is,

I remember when the Cowboys passed on Merriman for Ware in the '05 draft. I thought it was the biggest mistake at the time. Damn, did Ware (and the Cowboys FO) prove me wrong or what?

And to think that we passed on BOTH Merriman and Ware for our boy, Carlos. :devil2:

[jaylen]

I'm already in the tank for Orakpo loved the pick. Samuels is confirming the things I already thought about him. The thing I'm most encouraged about with him is his technique in the clips I saw against rushing Samuels he rushed with speed but he got low and kept coming inside once he got a step. Very good stuff. he didn't just take the outside lane and risk getting pushed outside of the pocket.

I expect great things from him this season. He doesn't look 6'4 260 to me though. maybe he is and its just a bad angle or something but he seems shorter than that and lighter.

[Moe]

Heard a camp report on the radio yesterday and the guy said that not only has Orakpo looked impressive at DE but he's been surprisingly good at OLB in his reads and in coverage. Maybe the scouts nailed one and the D coaches are earning their paychecks this year.

[BurgundyNGold]

Heard a camp report on the radio yesterday and the guy said that not only has Orakpo looked impressive at DE but he's been surprisingly good at OLB in his reads and in coverage. Maybe the scouts nailed one and the D coaches are earning their paychecks this year.
Nothing would make me happier, Moe. My concern is that I have no idea how the scouts could be earning their paychecks via due diligence when there simply isn't any film of Orakpo that would suggest that he projects to be any good as a LB in a 4-3 or that he can cover a bet, let alone Jason Witten.

If he turns out to be a beast, I will rejoice that after all of the Taylor Jacobs and Cliff Russells finally, FINALLY something fell our way in the draft. But I don't see how the scouts, given the lack of film, could have projected him to LB without more than a little bit of luck.

[silverspring]

The real good news is that this should end the debate where many people are saying orakpo shouldn't be getting reps at linebacker. It seems to me that he already feels comfortable at DE and the limited reps aren't hurting him. I have read some of his quotes to this regard where he says when he lines up at DE, it is simple, he just goes straight ahead.

Now, this doesn't mean he will be successful at linebacker, but I believe that at the very least the reps he is receiving at linebacker will only help him mature and become a smarter football player.

[akhhorus]

I hope I've been totally wrong about him, but this is how Legion of Awesome members get created lol.

I would caution everyone to see how just about everyone on the Defensive front 7 appears to be looking great against the wreck of the Redskins Oline.

[BurgundyNGold]

The real good news is that this should end the debate where many people are saying orakpo shouldn't be getting reps at linebacker. It seems to me that he already feels comfortable at DE and the limited reps aren't hurting him. I have read some of his quotes to this regard where he says when he lines up at DE, it is simple, he just goes straight ahead.

Now, this doesn't mean he will be successful at linebacker, but I believe that at the very least the reps he is receiving at linebacker will only help him mature and become a smarter football player.
I don't think that a few TC reports ends anything. He is a rookie DE and an unpolished one at that. Usually, a rookie can't learn more tha one thing (say more than one rush move, like Orakpo sports). Yet they are trying to cross train him in two positions? That's irresponsible any way you cut it.

Unless, and this is a big "unless"... Unless they are trying something very innovative with him. If they are trying to turn him into a 4-3 equivalent of a Jack LB in a 3-4. That is to say that, much like Ware does in Dallass, he will have the freedom to line up wherever and create havoc. For that role, I think he is custom built and alternate DE techniques wouldn't be that important. But to do that, he would (or at least should) be a Will backer in the 4-3, not the Sam.

Let's see how they use him in some games before we start talking about anything being proven or disproven.

[akhhorus]

I don't think that a few TC reports ends anything. He is a rookie DE and an unpolished one at that. Usually, a rookie can't learn more tha one thing (say more than one rush move, like Orakpo sports). Yet they are trying to cross train him in two positions? That's irresponsible any way you cut it.

Agreed.

Unless, and this is a big "unless"... Unless they are trying something very innovative with him. If they are trying to turn him into a 4-3 equivalent of a Jack LB in a 3-4. That is to say that, much like Ware does in Dallass, he will have the freedom to line up wherever and create havoc. For that role, I think he is custom built and alternate DE techniques wouldn't be that important. But to do that, he would (or at least should) be a Will backer in the 4-3, not the Sam.

Actually that defense is close to the one South Carolina runs now: a 3-1-2-1-4. 2 Dts(Haynesworth, Monty/Griff), 1 traditional DE(Carter), 1 DE/OLB hybrid(Orakpo), a MLB(Fletcher), a WLB(Rocky), a SS/OLB hybrid(Horton), 2 Cbs(Hall, Rogers) and 2 FSs(Moore, Landry). It has some advantages(athleticism), but some big disadvantages(endurance).

[BurgundyNGold]

Actually that defense is close to the one South Carolina runs now: a 3-1-2-1-4. 2 Dts(Haynesworth, Monty/Griff), 1 traditional DE(Carter), 1 DE/OLB hybrid(Orakpo), a MLB(Fletcher), a WLB(Rocky), a SS/OLB hybrid(Horton), 2 Cbs(Hall, Rogers) and 2 FSs(Moore, Landry). It has some advantages(athleticism), but some big disadvantages(endurance).
I'll have to see how they deploy, but if they leave him at Sam over the TE, he'll get run out of the play on every snap. That would completely negate his strength and speed attacking the LOS. If they are going to play him like a Jack, I still say they should play him at Will and give him back help from Horton.

[silverspring]

I don't think that a few TC reports ends anything. He is a rookie DE and an unpolished one at that. Usually, a rookie can't learn more tha one thing (say more than one rush move, like Orakpo sports). Yet they are trying to cross train him in two positions? That's irresponsible any way you cut it.

Unless, and this is a big "unless"... Unless they are trying something very innovative with him. If they are trying to turn him into a 4-3 equivalent of a Jack LB in a 3-4. That is to say that, much like Ware does in Dallass, he will have the freedom to line up wherever and create havoc. For that role, I think he is custom built and alternate DE techniques wouldn't be that important. But to do that, he would (or at least should) be a Will backer in the 4-3, not the Sam.

Let's see how they use him in some games before we start talking about anything being proven or disproven.

I think irresponsible is a strong word. DE is one of the more simpler positions. He does need to get use to seeing different looks from the DE position, but either you have that first step, the speed and the moves or you don't. Learning the ins and outs of playing linebacker and coverage will only help him in the long run whether he can do it well or not.

The funny thing is that for Orakpo we are taking the opposite approach than we do with every other rookie- which is excessive caution. At least we know he is going to play.

[firehawk157]

I'll have to see how they deploy, but if they leave him at Sam over the TE, he'll get run out of the play on every snap. That would completely negate his strength and speed attacking the LOS. If they are going to play him like a Jack, I still say they should play him at Will and give him back help from Horton.
Well, Steven Jackson did say that Horton is going to be more of an in the box safety and will be covering the TEs and RBs.

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, Steven Jackson did say that Horton is going to be more of an in the box safety and will be covering the TEs and RBs.
That would be a better idea if we're planning to let Orakpo be disruptive. I'd be surprised, though. GW and Blache wouldn't let Arrington be disruptive and he was perhaps one of the most disruptive college LB ever.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think irresponsible is a strong word. DE is one of the more simpler positions. He does need to get use to seeing different looks from the DE position, but either you have that first step, the speed and the moves or you don't. Learning the ins and outs of playing linebacker and coverage will only help him in the long run whether he can do it well or not.
I don't disagree, I just don't agree with the timing. Either put his hand in the dirt or let him be a Will playing Jack. Let him learn more stuff in coming years. If they expect him to be a Sam covering a TE they're pissing away another talented player.

The funny thing is that for Orakpo we are taking the opposite approach than we do with every other rookie- which is excessive caution. At least we know he is going to play.
True. Fear of losing one's job is a powerful motivator lol.

[firehawk157]

That would be a better idea if we're planning to let Orakpo be disruptive. I'd be surprised, though. GW and Blache wouldn't let Arrington be disruptive and he was perhaps one of the most disruptive college LB ever.
Blanche had nothing to do with the way Arrington was being used. I doubt GW would have accept Blanche's opinions on defensive schemes from anybody (especially about a position Blanche didn't coach), that dude personified arrogance.

Regardless, let's at least see this kid outside of training camp before declaring him anything (not to you in particular, just general statement).

[BurgundyNGold]

Blanche had nothing to do with the way Arrington was being used. I doubt GW would have accept Blanche's opinions on defensive schemes from anybody (especially about a position Blanche didn't coach), that dude personified arrogance.

Regardless, let's at least see this kid outside of training camp before declaring him anything (not to you in particular, just general statement).
I don't think that's much of a declaration given his well documented strengths and ostensible reasons for going #13 in the draft. Orakpo's talent will be wasted as a Sam LB in coverage.

[firehawk157]

Well, it sounds like he attacks the LOS plenty, if the way he's been used in training camp is an indication. He's being moved around a lot too.

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, it sounds like he attacks the LOS plenty, if the way he's been used in training camp is an indication. He's being moved around a lot too.
Like I said earlier, making an assessment based on print accounts from TC is probably a bad idea. Let's get the preseason under our belts at a minimum. I would think I'd be ready to make a solid assessment after about 3 or 4 regular season games. Especially considering that coaches will tell you that they do all sorts of things [in TC] that they'll never do during the season.

[edit]

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Its better to hear that he's doing well early on than struggling. I'll take it! :awesomewo

[colkurtz]

There's been a lot of good tidbits, from various sources, about Orakpo in this camp. It's all good. After some of the duds that we have drafted over the last decade, I'm ready to hear some exciting news from our #1 draft pick - especially since he's going into a position at DE that's been a black hole for the last 2 decades.

I'm a hopeless optimist and I'd rather be hearing these sort of stories versus one's about our draft picks who are out of shape, joking around in meetings, sleeping through practices, etc. Last year our only draft pick of note was a 7th rounder Safety.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

There's been a lot of good tidbits, from various sources, about Orakpo in this camp. It's all good. After some of the duds that we have drafted over the last decade, I'm ready to hear some exciting news from our #1 draft pick - especially since he's going into a position at DE that's been a black hole for the last 2 decades.

I'm a hopeless optimist and I'd rather be hearing these sort of stories versus one's about our draft picks who are out of shape, joking around in meetings, sleeping through practices, etc. Last year our only draft pick of note was a 7th rounder Safety.

I don't necessarily agree with the posters saying of course good things are going to be said during training camp. To your point colkurtz, you don't have to go further than last training camp to see negative reports about high draft picks. The media was very quick last year to talk about the lack of progress by all three second rounders and Reinhart. So, positive reports do mean something.

[Poindexter]

I don't think that's much of a declaration given his well documented strengths and ostensible reasons for going #13 in the draft. Orakpo's talent will be wasted as a Sam LB in coverage.

The bottom line is that he is going to rush the passer. I don't see him doing a lot in coverage unless it involves a zone blitz that covers his weakness' in coverage.

I see Orakpo having the impact of LaVar Arrington. Arrington blitzed alllllll the time and the defense worked out fine and he was tremendous when healthy. Its going to work out well.

[BurgundyNGold]

The bottom line is that he is going to rush the passer. I don't see him doing a lot in coverage unless it involves a zone blitz that covers his weakness' in coverage.

I see Orakpo having the impact of LaVar Arrington. Arrington blitzed alllllll the time and the defense worked out fine and he was tremendous when healthy. Its going to work out well.
Arrington played Will LB. If they played Orakpo at Will, I'd be very pleased and you would be more apt to be correct in your assessment. However, they have stated that they will be playing Orakpo at Sam LB. Not sure how he's going to be rushing the passer allllllll the time while covering TEs.

[Taylor21TheUndertaker]

I saw the EA sim of the 09 season.... DROY = Orakpo

[joethefan]

This confirms the report I recieved Sunday from someone who went to camp Saturday, that samuels struggled with him at times.

[Patrick]

Honestly I don't care one bit where they play Orakpo - just as long as he is reeking havoc in the opposing teams backfield. Really what difference does it make? And I’ll answer that – NONE!!!!! If he and Haynesworth are the players Blanche needed to rethink his defensive philosophy - then I say it’s all-good.

[native skin]

If Chris says he's good that's all I need to know.

[AustinSkin]

If Chris says he's good that's all I need to know.

I agree. Get used to saying it this season on the game threads...

RAK!!!!
I'm not kidding. This guy was a BEAST at Texas. Nothing but pure heart a motor, and desire, coupled with some smarts and a dose of humility.

He made huge back-to-back-toback sacks in key games. He batted down balls. He did everything. And he never quit. Take that ability with a desire to learn - and you have something very dangerous.

I was fired UP when he was drafted, and I honestly don't think he will disappoint. I predict he will have a "franchise-tag" in years to come.

[shally]

i see dead people...or, at least seriously walking wounded..lol

[Red Bear]

im encouraged by the positive reports on orakpo thus far. tempering your expectations and being cautious about a young player is one thing, but to call the team irresponsible for using a players versatility is going a bit overboard. especially when the fact of the matter is, lots of teams convert DEs to LBs and do very similar things that were planning to do with Orakpo, and have success doing it.

also, i think we will see Orakpo blitzing from the LB position as well, some seem to forget the success we had blitzing marcus washington from the SS when he was healthy his first two years here. the guy will be rushing the passer. the concerns about him in pass coverage are legitimate, and he will have his growing pains there, but i believe he can improve on that in time.

[BurgundyNGold]

im encouraged by the positive reports on orakpo thus far. tempering your expectations and being cautious about a young player is one thing, but to call the team irresponsible for using a players versatility is going a bit overboard. especially when the fact of the matter is, lots of teams convert DEs to LBs and do very similar things that were planning to do with Orakpo, and have success doing it.
I don't think that calling drafting a DE and coverting him to a SLB irrespnsible is going overboard. Most DE that are switched to LB are going into a 3-4 system as the JLB (like Ware, Merriman, et al). And of the ones who switch from DE to LB in a 4-3, they almost always go to the WLB slot. In fact, I've never heard of a DE in college going to the SLB slot as a rookie in the NFL. SLB spend most of their time *away* from the LOS. They're playing Orakpo as Marcus Washington, not Lavar Arrington. That's pissing away his skills and that's irrseponsible.

As I stated earlier, if they end up playing him at WLB (moving Rocky to SLB, which is what they should do), I can get with the decision to try him at LB. He'd have the flexibility to roam anywhere on the field at the WLB. But the team has stated that they're going to play him at SLB. Why play a huge pass rushing threat in coverage 2/3 or more of the time?

also, i think we will see Orakpo blitzing from the LB position as well, some seem to forget the success we had blitzing marcus washington from the SS when he was healthy his first two years here. the guy will be rushing the passer. the concerns about him in pass coverage are legitimate, and he will have his growing pains there, but i believe he can improve on that in time.
Some seem to not know that Marcus Washington played LB in DC, not SS.

They can blitz Orakpo (or anyone in the back 7, really) part of the time. But playing him at SLB severely reduces the opportunities to do so, especially since he's either got to go against a TE or he is going to get run off in coverage. They should play him as a DE or, if at LB, at WLB (who is uncovered) if they want to maximize his pass rushing effectiveness.

[Red Bear]

I don't think that calling drafting a DE and coverting him to a SLB irrespnsible is going overboard. Most DE that are switched to LB are going into a 3-4 system as the JLB (like Ware, Merriman, et al). And of the ones who switch from DE to LB in a 4-3, they almost always go to the WLB slot. In fact, I've never heard of a DE in college going to the SLB slot as a rookie in the NFL. SLB spend most of their time *away* from the LOS. They're playing Orakpo as Marcus Washington, not Lavar Arrington. That's pissing away his skills and that's irrseponsible.

As I stated earlier, if they end up playing him at WLB (moving Rocky to SLB, which is what they should do), I can get with the decision to try him at LB. He'd have the flexibility to roam anywhere on the field at the WLB. But the team has stated that they're going to play him at SLB. Why play a huge pass rushing threat in coverage 2/3 or more of the time?


Some seem to not know that Marcus Washington played LB in DC, not SS.

They can blitz Orakpo (or anyone in the back 7, really) part of the time. But playing him at SLB severely reduces the opportunities to do so, especially since he's either got to go against a TE or he is going to get run off in coverage. They should play him as a DE or, if at LB, at WLB (who is uncovered) if they want to maximize his pass rushing effectiveness.

first, SS = Strong Side, not strong safety in my post. were talking LBs not safeties.

also, marcus washington was a DE at auburn and a strongside LB in the NFL. youre talking about never hearing of it while talking about a guy that has done it, and another about to do it. youre basing everything youre saying on pure assumption that its pissing away his skills. also youre operating under the assumption that every play is going to be a pass and that orakpo will be covering every play and never playing the run. and no one said anything about lavar arrington, quit pulling irrelevant stuff out of thin air. if he blitzes from the SSLB on a pass play then he wont be covering anyone, which completely debunks your whole theory about him being run off in coverage every play. and you can say the WLB is uncovered all you want, but im pretty sure nfl offenses are smart enough to account for the WLB, so that isnt making sense either.

if you have no faith in any facet of the redskins, just go ahead and say it, no need to carry on your agenda. if we had moved rocky to SSLB and put orakpo at WLB you would be complaining you wanted it the other way around

[akhhorus]

first, SS = Strong Side, not strong safety in my post. were talking LBs not safeties.

also, marcus washington was a DE at auburn and a strongside LB in the NFL. youre talking about never hearing of it while talking about a guy that has done it, and another about to do it

Washington was a 3-4 DE/OLB hybrid player at Auburn I believe. Orakpo was a 4-3 DE who never covered anyone. Apples and bowling balls.

youre basing everything youre saying on pure assumption that its pissing away his skills. also youre operating under the assumption that every play is going to be a pass and that orakpo will be covering every play and never playing the run.

And you're basing everything on an assumption that Orakpo is a star in making based on a few early training camp reports.

and no one said anything about lavar arrington, quit pulling irrelevant stuff out of thin air.

Arrington is relevant to the discussion. He was an attacking player in the college who wasn't allowed to attack much by the current DC. How is Orakpo's situation much different(other than Lavar being a LB in college)?

if he blitzes from the SSLB on a pass play then he wont be covering anyone, which completely debunks your whole theory about him being run off in coverage every play.

Williams blitzed the SAM(Marcus Washington) a lot. Blache doesn't. Which completely debunks your point.

and you can say the WLB is uncovered all you want, but im pretty sure nfl offenses are smart enough to account for the WLB, so that isnt making sense either.

You don't understand what he's talking about. The Sam in the defense Blache runs is responsible for the TE and the RB(the SS being responsible for the TE when the SLB takes the RB). The Will in any cover-2 has more freedom, so your comment here doesn't make any sense.

if you have no faith in any facet of the redskins, just go ahead and say it, no need to carry on your agenda.

What would you call what you're saying? You have an agenda also.

if we had moved rocky to SSLB and put orakpo at WLB you would be complaining you wanted it the other way around

Considering he said thats what he'd prefer, your comment here makes no sense.

[BurgundyNGold]

first, SS = Strong Side, not strong safety in my post. were talking LBs not safeties.
My misunderstanding. I'm used to people using Sam or SLB to describe the Sam LB spot. SS and FS are safety designations.

also, marcus washington was a DE at auburn and a strongside LB in the NFL. youre talking about never hearing of it while talking about a guy that has done it, and another about to do it. youre basing everything youre saying on pure assumption that its pissing away his skills. also youre operating under the assumption that every play is going to be a pass and that orakpo will be covering every play and never playing the run. and no one said anything about lavar arrington, quit pulling irrelevant stuff out of thin air. if he blitzes from the SSLB on a pass play then he wont be covering anyone, which completely debunks your whole theory about him being run off in coverage every play. and you can say the WLB is uncovered all you want, but im pretty sure nfl offenses are smart enough to account for the WLB, so that isnt making sense either.
There are too many things wrong about what you say here to effectively go over every one.

Suffice to say, I never said that a DE to SLB move out of college doesn't happen, only that it's rare and I cannot remember it. And if I recall, MW played a hybrid position that saw him in a lot as a LB in coverage in college. Orakpo was a straight up DE, who never played in coverage as a LB and who specialized in pass rushing, not rush defense.

We drafted Orakpo why? To play the run? To cover TE? No, to rush the passer. Playing him at SLB will not make it impossible to rush the passer but it makes it a lot harder for him to line up wherever and be disruptive if he has to line up on the strong side (over the TE) all the time. That's not an assumption, that's the reality of the 4-3 defense.

I brought up Arrington because he was the last big name, pass rushing LB we brought in. Marty played him weak side and it worked out well. They should do the same for Orakpo.

if you have no faith in any facet of the redskins, just go ahead and say it, no need to carry on your agenda. if we had moved rocky to SSLB and put orakpo at WLB you would be complaining you wanted it the other way around
My only "agenda" is to call it as I see it. I applauded the Jarmon pick. Just yesterday I give solid marks to signing Hackett. When the team brings in a player and then makes it difficult for him to play to his strengths (like Orakpo, Jason Taylor, et al), don't expect people who know better to swallow the gruel and ask for more.

As for this "agenda" you keep referring to, the only "agenda" I see is yours:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_J_Pe-xkT2nc/SkCKArvTlNI/AAAAAAAAQPc/XiRJVIodP_8/s320/pollyanna1.jpg

[dj_stouty]

Arrington is relevant to the discussion. He was an attacking player in the college who wasn't allowed to attack much by the current DC.

In fact, Arrington was incorrectly used by many a DC here in Washington. Marvin Lewis was the only DC to allow him to actually rush the passer and he got 11 sacks that year.

[BurgundyNGold]

In fact, Arrington was incorrectly used by many a DC here in Washington. Marvin Lewis was the only DC to allow him to actually rush the passer and he got 11 sacks that year.
That's true. I remember him doing pretty well under Marty, but Marvin let him line up and get after it pretty well too. I just don't see how Orakpo can be doing this from the SLB. They're trying to fit Orakpo in their need at SLB instead of recognizing the immense possibilities his talent gives them WLB. Not to mention the flexibility that playing a roving Orakpo at WLB gives the defense and the nightmare it could be for opposing offenses.

Sigh.

[akhhorus]

In fact, Arrington was incorrectly used by many a DC here in Washington. Marvin Lewis was the only DC to allow him to actually rush the passer and he got 11 sacks that year.

Right to some extent, Arrington was so talented that he could play either OLB spot(I always thought he should have been a MLB) and in a lot of schemes, but dropping him back in coverage in Williams' defense was malpractice--and that smells like Blache's influence. BnG's point is probably better shown by the Lance Briggs example. Briggs was an OLB in college who couldn't cover, so Blache(who drafted him) and the Bears made him into a Will so he could just attack the ball. Thats what they should do with Orakpo if they're so bound and determined to play him at OLB.

[dj_stouty]

That's true. I remember him doing pretty well under Marty, but Marvin let him line up and get after it pretty well too. I just don't see how Orakpo can be doing this from the SLB. They're trying to fit Orakpo in their need at SLB instead of recognizing the immense possibilities his talent gives them WLB. Not to mention the flexibility that playing a roving Orakpo at WLB gives the defense and the nightmare it could be for opposing offenses.

Sigh.

Lavar only had 0.5 sacks under Marty (or rather Kurt S). Kurt was the one who tried to turn him into a pass-coverage/run-stopping LB...and he never got to hit the QB. He got 3 INTs that year (including one of the biggest in Redskins recent history) but he was never a pass-rush factor.

I do agree that Orakpo at WILL would make a lot more sense. Think about the possibilities. He could line up at WILL several yards off the line...but just prior to the snap, he could charge forward and be side-by-side with Carter ready to bring the house to the LT. Makes a lot more sense to take away the TE-coverage responsibilities considering that wasn't his forte at Texas.

[BurgundyNGold]

Lavar only had 0.5 sacks under Marty (or rather Kurt S). Kurt was the one who tried to turn him into a pass-coverage/run-stopping LB...and he never got to hit the QB. He got 3 INTs that year (including one of the biggest in Redskins recent history) but he was never a pass-rush factor.
Ah, right. You are correct. MARVIN was the DC who let him wreak havoc at WLB. I misunderremembered lol.

I do agree that Orakpo at WILL would make a lot more sense. Think about the possibilities. He could line up at WILL several yards off the line...but just prior to the snap, he could charge forward and be side-by-side with Carter ready to bring the house to the LT. Makes a lot more sense to take away the TE-coverage responsibilities considering that wasn't his forte at Texas.
That seems like the perfect situation, IMO.

Looking at it rationally, what's the upside here? Orakpo shows that he can cover TE and work well 5-7 yards off the ball? So, the coaches end up being right, but at what cost? What did we get out of it? Not a vastly improved pass rush, that's for sure.

Playing Orakpo at SLB is like buying a Corvette for my grandmother. She'll never take it over 35 or further than church or the store. She could use a CHEvette for that lol. What a waste.

[CNYSkinFan]

I don't understand why we are not lookign at McIntosh at SAM and Oraskpo/Wilson combo at Will. Then Orakpo can switch and take over for Daniels on passing downs and a Moore can come in in the cobra defense

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't understand why we are not lookign at McIntosh at SAM and Oraskpo/Wilson combo at Will. Then Orakpo can switch and take over for Daniels on passing downs and a Moore can come in in the cobra defense
How dare you question the team! Take your agenda elsewhere!!!

:p

Seriously, though, what you say makes perfect sense. It's just what you would think they would do with a player like Orakpo. Sometimes, I think that if you hand Blache a screwdriver that he'd try to drive a nail with it.

[dj_stouty]

I don't understand why we are not lookign at McIntosh at SAM and Oraskpo/Wilson combo at Will. Then Orakpo can switch and take over for Daniels on passing downs and a Moore can come in in the cobra defense

Mabye you and your comedy troupe can put Blatche through some improvisational exercises to loosen him up. He clearly needs to learn how to be more innovative and think outside of his comfort level.

[shally]

I don't understand why we are not lookign at McIntosh at SAM and Oraskpo/Wilson combo at Will. Then Orakpo can switch and take over for Daniels on passing downs and a Moore can come in in the cobra defense

i dont think that wilson can cover.. he seems to have a fine first step for pass rushing.. and i have never seen rocky cover anyone worth a damn

[BurgundyNGold]

i dont think that wilson can cover.. he seems to have a fine first step for pass rushing.. and i have never seen rocky cover anyone worth a damn
More reason to play him at WLB.

[BurgundyNGold]

Who knows, maybe Blache is lysdexic and he has everything reversed lol.

[CNYSkinFan]

i dont think that wilson can cover.. he seems to have a fine first step for pass rushing.. and i have never seen rocky cover anyone worth a damn

Rocky may or may not be able to cover, but we know Orakpo has never been asked to cover and yet we are playing him at SAM. And I seem to remember when we drafted Rocky people talking about how he could play both will and sam. I have read alot of stuff about Rocky working on pass coverage ability the last few years, time to see if he has learned enough.

[Moe]

We drafted Orakpo why? To play the run? To cover TE? No, to rush the passer. Playing him at SLB will not make it impossible to rush the passer but it makes it a lot harder for him to line up wherever and be disruptive if he has to line up on the strong side (over the TE) all the time. That's not an assumption, that's the reality of the 4-3 defense.

All due respect, but he was drafted to help the D which is inclusive of playing the run, covering a TE and rushing the passer. Certainly his strength (currently) comes as a rusher but he's clearly a superior athlete and I don't think it's a reach to see if he can impact the game in all facets and, while early, the quotes from his teammates and out of camp suggest that he's doing quite well at picking up his new position.

FWIW- Zorn and Joey T. on Orakpo-
“We have to look at him as an every-down player,” head coach Jim Zorn said. “Everything he does is important. It’s not one situation over another. We want to get our best 11 players on the field.”

In the nickel scheme, the Redskins lose the strong-side linebacker. They don’t want to lose Orakpo. They also want the most out of him the rest of the time.

“He’s a natural pass rusher,” said Joe Theismann, who spent many years dodging fellows of Orakpo’s ilk. “Marcus Washington rushed 25 percent of the time. So you’re going to get an extremely effective pass rusher going up against tight ends who aren’t used to blocking people with that speed and quickness.”

Theismann said the Redskins are protecting Orakpo because opposing offenses don’t target the strong-side ‘backer.

“That’s a position most teams normally won’t attack because there is too much around it--there’s a strong safety outside of it, a safety behind it, a linebacker on the other side. It’s almost the safest place to put someone in a learning position,” Theismann said

[Red Bear]

All due respect, but he was drafted to help the D which is inclusive of playing the run, covering a TE and rushing the passer. Certainly his strength (currently) comes as a rusher but he's clearly a superior athlete and I don't think it's a reach to see if he can impact the game in all facets and, while early, the quotes from his teammates and out of camp suggest that he's doing quite well at picking up his new position.

FWIW- Zorn and Joey T. on Orakpo-
“We have to look at him as an every-down player,” head coach Jim Zorn said. “Everything he does is important. It’s not one situation over another. We want to get our best 11 players on the field.”

In the nickel scheme, the Redskins lose the strong-side linebacker. They don’t want to lose Orakpo. They also want the most out of him the rest of the time.

“He’s a natural pass rusher,” said Joe Theismann, who spent many years dodging fellows of Orakpo’s ilk. “Marcus Washington rushed 25 percent of the time. So you’re going to get an extremely effective pass rusher going up against tight ends who aren’t used to blocking people with that speed and quickness.”

Theismann said the Redskins are protecting Orakpo because opposing offenses don’t target the strong-side ‘backer.

“That’s a position most teams normally won’t attack because there is too much around it--there’s a strong safety outside of it, a safety behind it, a linebacker on the other side. It’s almost the safest place to put someone in a learning position,” Theismann said

and that coming from two guys who have lived the life of a football player, and one a coach the other a long time analyst. and actually for those saying it would make more sense to put him the weakside, turns out he and rocky have been flopping positions on occassion, so you should get to see that too(via JLCs nfl.com blog). but even from the strongside, i think orakpo can have much more success rushing against any TEs or RBs than a seasoned LT. someone will have to stay in and block him...

[BurgundyNGold]

All due respect, but he was drafted to help the D which is inclusive of playing the run, covering a TE and rushing the passer. Certainly his strength (currently) comes as a rusher but he's clearly a superior athlete and I don't think it's a reach to see if he can impact the game in all facets and, while early, the quotes from his teammates and out of camp suggest that he's doing quite well at picking up his new position.

FWIW- Zorn and Joey T. on Orakpo-
“We have to look at him as an every-down player,” head coach Jim Zorn said. “Everything he does is important. It’s not one situation over another. We want to get our best 11 players on the field.”

In the nickel scheme, the Redskins lose the strong-side linebacker. They don’t want to lose Orakpo. They also want the most out of him the rest of the time.

“He’s a natural pass rusher,” said Joe Theismann, who spent many years dodging fellows of Orakpo’s ilk. “Marcus Washington rushed 25 percent of the time. So you’re going to get an extremely effective pass rusher going up against tight ends who aren’t used to blocking people with that speed and quickness.”

Theismann said the Redskins are protecting Orakpo because opposing offenses don’t target the strong-side ‘backer.

“That’s a position most teams normally won’t attack because there is too much around it--there’s a strong safety outside of it, a safety behind it, a linebacker on the other side. It’s almost the safest place to put someone in a learning position,” Theismann said
If the logic is that the Redskins did not draft Orakpo for any specific reason then they're either lying or even more clueless than just playing him out of position.

Getting the best 11 players in the field? By that logic, the #4 overall defense didn't need that much help but the #28 offense did. Why not use that draft pick on a position that allowed you to get one of those crappy 11 players off the field? Why not go after a RT in FA? I'm not buying it.

I'm inclined to believe Zorn, but I don't think he spend much time on Blache's side of the hallway. As for Theismann, do we really need to go into how much Theismann prefers to talk first and think later? Aside from a visit to the Park every now and again, Ex football player (20 years removed from the game) or not, I don't know that he's privy to much more than the stale talking points coming out of Redskin Park. We might as well ask Mike Wise what he thinks. He's probably down there more often that Joe.

At this point, I'm willing to leave my mind open to the possibilities. What I have said, and what I firmly believe is, if they use Orakpo as they used MW or any other traditional SLB, they'll be pissing away his skills. He should be playing on the weak side. That's a no-brainer. That said, we'll have to see how they actually use him. Reports out of camp are worthless. We need to see him in some real games.

[BurgundyNGold]

and that coming from two guys who have lived the life of a football player, and one a coach the other a long time analyst. and actually for those saying it would make more sense to put him the weakside, turns out he and rocky have been flopping positions on occassion, so you should get to see that too(via JLCs nfl.com blog). but even from the strongside, i think orakpo can have much more success rushing against any TEs or RBs than a seasoned LT. someone will have to stay in and block him...
I hope to see that more often than not. If they're intent on going through with this OLB experiment, at least use him as an unpredictable, destructive pass rushing force for chrissake.

[Poindexter]

Im certainly not trying to knock anyone on this topic but I played SAM linebacker and Strong safety in college and have been a D coordinator on the high school level. From general knowledge the Will linebacker is the more athletic and the fastest of the 3 backers.

The Sam linebacker has help over top from the safety and has a lot less pass responsibility....however, you have to be pretty smart because of all of the reads as a SAM. Orakpo is smart, is athletic enough to be a playmaker at this position.

I also hope we use Orakpo the same way we used Arrington when Lewis was D-Cord.

To sum it up.....Orakpo occasionally covering Brian Westbrook or the Eagles no name TE's?........Orakpo trailing the play and not taking on TE's / FBs or watching Rocky get blown up by lead blockers?

The skins are way smarter than us so we should trust their judgedment.

[firehawk157]

Im certainly not trying to knock anyone on this topic but I played SAM linebacker and Strong safety in college and have been a D coordinator on the high school level. From general knowledge the Will linebacker is the more athletic and the fastest of the 3 backers.

The Sam linebacker has help over top from the safety and has a lot less pass responsibility....however, you have to be pretty smart because of all of the reads as a SAM. Orakpo is smart, is athletic enough to be a playmaker at this position.

I also hope we use Orakpo the same way we used Arrington when Lewis was D-Cord.

To sum it up.....Orakpo occasionally covering Brian Westbrook or the Eagles no name TE's?........Orakpo trailing the play and not taking on TE's / FBs or watching Rocky get blown up by lead blockers?

The skins are way smarter than us so we should trust their judgedment.
That argument just never works here.

[akhhorus]

That argument just never works here.

Maybe if the skins showed consistent competency, they would have some leeway and trust.

[BurgundyNGold]

Im certainly not trying to knock anyone on this topic but I played SAM linebacker and Strong safety in college and have been a D coordinator on the high school level. From general knowledge the Will linebacker is the more athletic and the fastest of the 3 backers.
Exactly. He is also given more flexibility as to where to line up.

The Sam linebacker has help over top from the safety and has a lot less pass responsibility....however, you have to be pretty smart because of all of the reads as a SAM. Orakpo is smart, is athletic enough to be a playmaker at this position.
Not true. SLB line up over the TE. As such, he is to cover the TE unless the package calls for him to release. In any case, he's got to get through the TE or let the TE go by before going into the backfield.

I also hope we use Orakpo the same way we used Arrington when Lewis was D-Cord.
So do I. That's why I want him to play WLB, like Arrington.

To sum it up.....Orakpo occasionally covering Brian Westbrook or the Eagles no name TE's?........Orakpo trailing the play and not taking on TE's / FBs or watching Rocky get blown up by lead blockers?
You can have Orakpo get blown up by lead blockers or Rocky get blown up by lead blockers. If I was going to send someone up Hamburger Hill, it would be Rocky, not Orakpo. And Orakpo, if SLB, will be in coverage more than "occasionally", primarily against TE. RB are usually the MLB responsibility out of the backfield.

The skins are way smarter than us so we should trust their judgedment.
That's unverifiable and neither here nor there on a fan message board. In any case, i'ts not like we have a whole lot of choice in the matter.

[Poindexter]

Good response Burgundy & Gold......but anyways, I don't want to see Orakpo anywhere near the multiple receiver side unless he is lined up at DE. Orakpo defending the slot would leap frog Arrington as the skins all-time personel screw ups.

But if we do the Marvin Lewis approach, how many sacks do you think Osakpo will get this year?

[akhhorus]

Good response Burgundy & Gold......but anyways, I don't want to see Orakpo anywhere near the multiple receiver side unless he is lined up at DE. Orakpo defending the slot would leap frog Arrington as the skins all-time personel screw ups.


The problem is that teams will look to exploit him until he shows he can handle it. The skins may try to hide him in coverage, but a good OC will do shifts and audibles to force him to split out in the slot--even if its with a Rb or a TE. The Cowboys, Giants and Eagles almost certainly are going to split out a fast RB in the strong side slot to test him(and putting someone in the slot against the Skins' base set means Orakpo has to cover either the TE or the slot). Playing him in the Briggs WLB role means that the opposing offensives can't shift to try and force him out into coverage(well, not nearly as much).

[AustinSkin]

Orakpo & Horton both get team balls against the Gints

[BurgundyNGold]

Good response Burgundy & Gold......but anyways, I don't want to see Orakpo anywhere near the multiple receiver side unless he is lined up at DE. Orakpo defending the slot would leap frog Arrington as the skins all-time personel screw ups.
Agreed.

But if we do the Marvin Lewis approach, how many sacks do you think Osakpo will get this year?
Lewis and Blache play two different styles of defenses, so it would be hard to predict. But I don't think it unreasonable to expect that Orakpo could have the same level of success that Arrington did at WLB when given marching orders to blow up the backfield. Orakpo has the speed and motor to notch double digit sacks at WLB pretty easily. Not sure what he'll get at SLB. Maybe 6?

[NamVet4]

I'm taking a wait and see approach! With both Orakpo and Blache... Guys, don't screw this up...Lord knows that the Team needs the best possible D to counteract a shaky O . . . at least to start.
Prove me wrong . . . Put up the "W's"!!!!

[Moe]

If the logic is that the Redskins did not draft Orakpo for any specific reason then they're either lying or even more clueless than just playing him out of position.

Getting the best 11 players in the field? By that logic, the #4 overall defense didn't need that much help but the #28 offense did. Why not use that draft pick on a position that allowed you to get one of those crappy 11 players off the field? Why not go after a RT in FA? I'm not buying it.

I'm inclined to believe Zorn, but I don't think he spend much time on Blache's side of the hallway. As for Theismann, do we really need to go into how much Theismann prefers to talk first and think later? Aside from a visit to the Park every now and again, Ex football player (20 years removed from the game) or not, I don't know that he's privy to much more than the stale talking points coming out of Redskin Park. We might as well ask Mike Wise what he thinks. He's probably down there more often that Joe.

At this point, I'm willing to leave my mind open to the possibilities. What I have said, and what I firmly believe is, if they use Orakpo as they used MW or any other traditional SLB, they'll be pissing away his skills. He should be playing on the weak side. That's a no-brainer. That said, we'll have to see how they actually use him. Reports out of camp are worthless. We need to see him in some real games.

I think you're taking his statements a little out of context; Zorn is talking specifically about how they want to run a D wherein Orakpo can stay on the field on every down, not the larger context of teambuilding. But even along those lines, we all know (and the coaches have even acknowledged) the deficiencies of that "#4" defense last year, so adding talent that can potentially augment those areas should produce a much more legitimate, and less crumbly, defense.

You're free to dismiss Theismann, but the guy has more access to the team and more understanding of the nuance of professional football than we do. He does love to hear himself talk, but that doesn't mean he's automatically wrong.

Ultimately, I hope that Orakpo lives up to his hype and he can aid in putting together a legitimately excellent D. I think that the offense is going to need the support, and if they get it then maybe this team can swing a few of those close games in their favor.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think you're taking his statements a little out of context; Zorn is talking specifically about how they want to run a D wherein Orakpo can stay on the field on every down, not the larger context of teambuilding. But even along those lines, we all know (and the coaches have even acknowledged) the deficiencies of that "#4" defense last year, so adding talent that can potentially augment those areas should produce a much more legitimate, and less crumbly, defense.
But we didn't draft Orakpo to cover TE. We drafted him to get after the QB and to make opposing offense cover him. He'd be a waste of a pick if we were looking for him to spend significant time in coverage. You can get those guys in FA. You can get those guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds for the draft. Sometimes later.

We'll have to see where he plays. All I'm saying is that playing him at LB is already a risk. Since he hasn't played LB in college (outside of his redshirt year, perhaps) it's far from a foregone conclusion that he can even stand up and play. Then, to put him into a position where, more often than not, he is NOT using the skills that won him awards and got him drafted #13 so that he can use skills that he never showed on film at any level is, as I said, irresponsible. It's too big a risk. It's putting all your money on 00.

Any why? That's what's so befuddling? Covering a TE is not our biggest weakness. Getting pressure on the QB is our biggest weakness. So, we have this guy who can do that from the DE spot. Maybe he can do it from the WLB spot. OK, well, there you go. Problem solved right? No, because, against the odds, our DC wants to ignore the lack of film and our critial need area and play the guy where he wants him instead of where we need him.

http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/inconceivable.jpg


You're free to dismiss Theismann, but the guy has more access to the team and more understanding of the nuance of professional football than we do. He does love to hear himself talk, but that doesn't mean he's automatically wrong.
I'm not dismissing Joe, I just don't give what he says a lot lot of weight. He may have more access to the team that we do, but I really don't know how much more that is.

The best assessment is the film. Unfortunately, we don't have that yet.

Ultimately, I hope that Orakpo lives up to his hype and he can aid in putting together a legitimately excellent D. I think that the offense is going to need the support, and if they get it then maybe this team can swing a few of those close games in their favor.
We are in complete agreement here. The only place where we differ is that I cannot see the logic in playing Orakp at SLB. There is no evidence to support moving him there -- especially given that he is likely the cure for what ails our pass rush. There is, however, ample evidence of Blache pissing away a player's talents (Landry, Jason Taylor for example) to try and force fit them into his system. I'm afraid that he's going to do the same thing to Orakpo.

[Moe]

But we didn't draft Orakpo to cover TE.

Evidently, at least to some degree, they did.
As the legendary axe man Nigel Tufnel once said, "It's a fine line between clever and very stupid."

We drafted him to get after the QB and to make opposing offense cover him.

This, and being able to cover a TE aren't mutually exclusive.

He'd be a waste of a pick if we were looking for him to spend significant time in coverage. You can get those guys in FA.

What consititutes significant time? How many times did we see Marcus Washington in coverage beyond 10 yards in any game? Once, twice? Blache more often than not tends to drop Fletcher deep middle and with Landry 20 yards off, he's got over the top coverage anyway.
Conversely, we'll get to see what TE's are capable of dealing with him when blocking.

And didn't we see what happened last year when we stuck an undersized DE (Taylor) out there? Orakpo is a speed player, so why not back him off and allow him to use that speed in certain situations (1st-2nd downs) and the move him into a pass rushing position at other times? Maybe in some weird way, the experience with Taylor last year has opened up the coaches eyes to what Orakpo offers in different spots.

We'll have to see where he plays. All I'm saying is that playing him at LB is already a risk. Since he hasn't played LB in college (outside of his redshirt year, perhaps) it's far from a foregone conclusion that he can even stand up and play. Then, to put him into a position where, more often than not, he is NOT using the skills that won him awards and got him drafted #13 so that he can use skills that he never showed on film at any level is, as I said, irresponsible. It's too big a risk. It's putting all your money on 00.

While I don't think it quite as extreme a gamble as you paint it to be, your concerns are valid. I'm of the opinion that a guy of his superior athletic makeup can make such a transition.

The best assessment is the film. Unfortunately, we don't have that yet.

Everything I've heard from those around here who've been to camp, the (non-Snyder owned) radio reports and from the coaches and teammates have all been very positive. For whatever that's worth.

We are in complete agreement here. The only place where we differ is that I cannot see the logic in playing Orakp at SLB. There is no evidence to support moving him there -- especially given that he is likely the cure for what ails our pass rush. There is, however, ample evidence of Blache pissing away a player's talents (Landry, Jason Taylor for example) to try and force fit them into his system. I'm afraid that he's going to do the same thing to Orakpo.

Again, valid and I'll likely concuss myself if Blache feels compelled to undermine another talent. I guess we'll see it all in action soon enough.

[BurgundyNGold]

Evidently, at least to some degree, they did.
As the legendary axe man Nigel Tufnel once said, "It's a fine line between clever and very stupid."
Ain't that the truth lol. Ain't seen much clever around Ashburn lately though. ;)

This, and being able to cover a TE aren't mutually exclusive.
They are when then play you at SLB. Your first responsibility is to the TE on the strong side. If he releases, you go with him. That is, of course, unless there is help over the top which is not the standard in a 4-3 alignment. If the TE doesn't release and you get to crash, you still have to get by the TE and maybe a RB. All of this is assuming that opposing OC don't just run the TE off every play to negate Orakpo at the LOS.

So, yeah, they're not mutually exclusive but you can't do both at the same time. The majority of plays of plays for the SLB end up on the wrong side of the LOS if you want to get to the QB.

What consititutes significant time? How many times did we see Marcus Washington in coverage beyond 10 yards in any game? Once, twice? Blache more often than not tends to drop Fletcher deep middle and with Landry 20 yards off, he's got over the top coverage anyway.
Depending on the package, the MLB or SLB can go deep. The MLB covers the RB out of the backfield by default, the SLB covers the TE. So they could both end up deep in the secondary. We saw MW deep in coverage a lot when he could run, but that doesn't matter. If Orakpo is only 5-7 yards back in coverage (which MW did a LOT) he's still not rushing the passer, which is a waste of his talents.

Conversely, we'll get to see what TE's are capable of dealing with him when blocking.
I prefer the path of least resistance. Making Orakpo crash into TE all day is puting a saddle on a race horse. Sure, you could do it. But why would you?

And didn't we see what happened last year when we stuck an undersized DE (Taylor) out there? Orakpo is a speed player, so why not back him off and allow him to use that speed in certain situations (1st-2nd downs) and the move him into a pass rushing position at other times? Maybe in some weird way, the experience with Taylor last year has opened up the coaches eyes to what Orakpo offers in different spots.
What we saw last year in Taylor was a player being told to play to the style of defense, not to his strengths. The result? About 3 sacks for Jason Taylor. The only times he was effective was when Blache let him get after the QB.

So far, I don't see Blache allowing him to play to his strengths. I see Blache trying to make him into what he wants him to be within the scheme of the defense. Unfortunately, just like with Taylor, Blache is doing what Blache wants to do, not's what's best for the team or the player.

While I don't think it quite as extreme a gamble as you paint it to be, your concerns are valid. I'm of the opinion that a guy of his superior athletic makeup can make such a transition.
I hope you're right. But I still don't like making things hard on a guy just because he *can* do something. Imagine if Blache was Lawrence Taylor's DC? Just because LT *could* have been used in coverage, does that make it the best move?

Everything I've heard from those around here who've been to camp, the (non-Snyder owned) radio reports and from the coaches and teammates have all been very positive. For whatever that's worth.
Everything is always rosy in early August. Usually not so much in January for about 20-24 teams.

Again, valid and I'll likely concuss myself if Blache feels compelled to undermine another talent. I guess we'll see it all in action soon enough.
Agreed lol.

[jaylen]

LOL I think alot of the skepticism is driven by Skins management track record but I think its possible the broken clock will have the right time in this case. I've not heard of much awkwardness or problems with Orakpo in camp all that may change once the preseason games start and I hope he falls apart sooner than later so we can change it immediatly if he can't handle it.

based on what I'm hearing it sounds as if he's gonna have success at the very thing we need most and thats rushing the passer so if the LB spot doesn't work we still have what we've needed to upgrade on. which isn't a bad consolation.

But I have a hunch he's gonna be fine at lb. and if thats the case I will be finding the right spices to mix in the gravy of the crow some folks may be eating lol.

[akhhorus]

LOL I think alot of the skepticism is driven by Skins management track record but I think its possible the broken clock will have the right time in this case. I've not heard of much awkwardness or problems with Orakpo in camp all that may change once the preseason games start and I hope he falls apart sooner than later so we can change it immediatly if he can't handle it.

Taylor Jacobs on line 2 for you lol.

based on what I'm hearing it sounds as if he's gonna have success at the very thing we need most and thats rushing the passer so if the LB spot doesn't work we still have what we've needed to upgrade on. which isn't a bad consolation.


Except that unless Blache has totally changed his defense, he's not going to be doing that a lot(nevermind that Blache HATES rookies and doesn't like to play them).

But I have a hunch he's gonna be fine at lb. and if thats the case I will be finding the right spices to mix in the gravy of the crow some folks may be eating lol.

I really hope I'm wrong about him at OLB, but there's just way too many reasons not to do this with him(or if you're so damn determined to make him into a LB, play him on the weak side).

[jaylen]

Taylor Jacobs on line 2 for you lol.



Except that unless Blache has totally changed his defense, he's not going to be doing that a lot(nevermind that Blache HATES rookies and doesn't like to play them).



I really hope I'm wrong about him at OLB, but there's just way too many reasons not to do this with him(or if you're so damn determined to make him into a LB, play him on the weak side).

lol I just hope you're wrong this time man.

taylor jacobs who's that never heard of him. lol

I've lost all faith on Blache changing I mean next to the can't teach an old dog in the New tricks portion of the dictionary Blache is standing holding the leash.

he's gonna revert back to what he normally does I have a feeling. I mean he brought back his old faithfuls in Daniels and Wynn to insure my season long frustration of passivity.

[BurgundyNGold]

I really hope I'm wrong about him at OLB, but there's just way too many reasons not to do this with him(or if you're so damn determined to make him into a LB, play him on the weak side).
That's the clincher for me. Make Orakpo a LB even though he's the best pass rushing DE prospect in the draft? Errr, OK. Whatever. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, Blache -- even though you haven't earned it. But then to play him at SLB and putting him in pass coverage instead of putting him at attacking WLB?

Why not just play Orakpo at SS alongside Landry while you're at it lol? I mean, technically he can rush the passer from back there too.

[akhhorus]

That's the clincher for me. Make Orakpo a LB even though he's the best pass rushing DE prospect in the draft? Errr, OK. Whatever. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, Blache -- even though you haven't earned it. But then to play him at SLB and putting him in pass coverage instead of putting him at attacking WLB?

Why not just play Orakpo at SS alongside Landry while you're at it lol? I mean, technically he can rush the passer from back there too.

I'm surprised we didn't make him into a Fullback.

[shally]

I'm surprised we didn't make him into a Fullback.

next year.. TIGHT END

[esmith1790]

It seems that to expose him,Teams will run alot of 2-TE sets against the skins.

You can even motion 1 of the TEs out of the backfield into LOS causing the WR to be in the slot, I would assume that a safety would man up on him.

Leaving the other safety to box the WR and other TE on the otherside of the field.

Then you bring a felix Jones type of scat-back out to the same side as Orakpo thus causing him to pass off the TE to the deep safety.

I am not sure it will be that pretty with Felix and Orakpo in the open field.

[shally]

It seems that to expose him,Teams will run alot of 2-TE sets against the skins.

You can even motion 1 of the TEs out of the backfield into LOS causing the WR to be in the slot, I would assume that a safety would man up on him.

Leaving the other safety to box the WR and other TE on the otherside of the field.

Then you bring a felix Jones type of scat-back out to the same side as Orakpo thus causing him to pass off the TE to the deep safety.

I am not sure it will be that pretty with Felix and Orakpo in the open field.

please, felix has yet to prove he can even survive contact in the nfl. if orakpo gets a clean shot at him it will be jones who is looking like the chump

[esmith1790]

please, felix has yet to prove he can even survive contact in the nfl. if orakpo gets a clean shot at him it will be jones who is looking like the chump

ok sure, substitute Westbrook then.

Or from the scenario i mentioned above motion the scatback out into the flat and then have both WRs in the slots. with the RB and TE#2 out wide.


If you run an empty backfield on 1st/2nd down Orapko will be in a 1on1 with no safety help in the middle of the field.

[Patrick]

That's the clincher for me. Make Orakpo a LB even though he's the best pass rushing DE prospect in the draft? Errr, OK. Whatever. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on that, Blache -- even though you haven't earned it. But then to play him at SLB and putting him in pass coverage instead of putting him at attacking WLB?

Why not just play Orakpo at SS alongside Landry while you're at it lol? I mean, technically he can rush the passer from back there too.
The thing that I find interesting is that he's going again an Pro-bowl TE and yet still receiving a lot of positive reviews. ...... I guess we'll get a preview this Thursday huh .....

[BurgundyNGold]

The thing that I find interesting is that he's going again an Pro-bowl TE and yet still receiving a lot of positive reviews. ...... I guess we'll get a preview this Thursday huh .....
I can't wait. Honestly, I want to be wrong on this. Nothing would make me happier than to see Orakpo as the preeminent player at wherever they put him. But I can't help having my concerns. What Blache is doing with him defies logic. I mean, even if he is a pro bowl SLB, if he only gets 6 sacks a year or so, is that really the best use of his skills given our record setting futility (2007) in the pass rush?

Like you say, we'll get our first look at him on Thursday. We'll be able to see where he lines up (over the TE or over the weak side). After the preseason and 3 or 4 actual games, I think we'll have a a decent idea of how they intend to use him.

That is, unless, the excuses start coming out of the Park around Week 4 or 6 about how he's "still learning" and how they're "bringing him around slowly". That usually placates the locals.

[tuckahoeskin]

I'm surprised we didn't make him into a Fullback.

And "Don't Fear The Reaper" needs more cowbell...

[csquared]

please, felix has yet to prove he can even survive contact in the nfl. if orakpo gets a clean shot at him it will be jones who is looking like the chump

Thats the thing, Orakpo isnt going to get a clean shot at Jones. Jones is way too fast.

[Goskins11]

i see dead people...or, at least seriously walking wounded..lol

hahaha

[skinsfan36]

went to camp tuesday and orakpo put a sweet spin move on samuels in a one on one drill. it was real nice

[shally]

Thats the thing, Orakpo isnt going to get a clean shot at Jones. Jones is way too fast.

speed has little to do with it.. jones has to follow his blockers, and if the play breaks down, or the corner takes out the pulling guard, there is jones one on one..

[shally]

ok sure, substitute Westbrook then.

Or from the scenario i mentioned above motion the scatback out into the flat and then have both WRs in the slots. with the RB and TE#2 out wide.


If you run an empty backfield on 1st/2nd down Orapko will be in a 1on1 with no safety help in the middle of the field.

ahem... read that felix has pain and stiffness in his repaired toe today..

he is going to turn out to be your version of trung candidate.. always a tease.. always breaking down...