Do we really want Shanny?

[oldskinfan]

Aside from the obvious, which is that someone like Shanny might want to handle personnel, and that means buh-bye Vinny, if the season does not go well, would we really want Shanny as the replacement?

I did some analysis from his stats on his Wikipedia entry.

1) In the years he had Elway, he was 47-17 in the regular season (.734 clip)
2) In the years after Elway retired, he was 91-69 (.568 clip) or about 9-7
3) In the same post-Elway years, he was 1-4 in the playoffs

We all know even Gibbs 2.0 has problems with the core personnel he was given to work with, and makes me think great coach without a good personnel guy = perpetual mediocrity (the Snyderrato issue).

Thoughts?

[redskin_rich]

Not me, I want a GM and then he can hire a coach.
Hell, I'd take Casserley back and I've been a big critic of his. At least he was organized and qualified.

[Biggie]

91-69 is a lot better than the record we've had in that span of time (76-84, according to Wiki).

[akhhorus]

Cartman's Phonics monkey would be better than Vinny(there's a better pic that shows the monkey doing something else, but I can't post it lol):

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/thumb/7/7d/313_cartman_monkey.gif/200px-313_cartman_monkey.gif

Shanny did a good job picking talent from the draft over the last few years, and his teams are always well prepared.

[smoak]

Not me, I want a GM and then he can hire a coach.
Hell, I'd take Casserley back and I've been a big critic of his. At least he was organized and qualified.

Agree.

GM aside, I want someone who is strong enough to stand up to lil dannie... I want Grimm. I remember your argument about it just being another oppotunity for dannie to tarnish a legend/legacy, but I am 100% on board with someone who will bring me (selfish i know) HOPE.

[RedskinsDave]

I don't want Shanahan under any circumstance. His personnel skills rival idiot-boy's.

I want $20M a year for Bill Polian and let him fix this mess.

[esmith1790]

Doesnt he run the Zone Blocking Scheme with smaller lighter lineman. The OL would need to be re-vamped anyways, but Dockery was just signed and not sure how well he would do in the ZBS.

Shanny also got rid of CP 1 time, i guess he would do it again?

[RedskinsDave]

Doesnt he run the Zone Blocking Scheme with smaller lighter lineman. The OL would need to be re-vamped anyways, but Dockery was just signed and not sure how well he would do in the ZBS.

Shanny also got rid of CP 1 time, i guess he would do it again?

That was really Alex Gibbs' specialty and once he left Denver their blocking wasn't the same. Too many things point to other people making Shanahan look good.

[akhhorus]

That was really Alex Gibbs' specialty and once he left Denver their blocking wasn't the same. Too many things point to other people making Shanahan look good.

Their offense line was really good last year without Gibbs. Clady might be the best LT in the NFL.

[Farmer Ted]

Shanny did a good job picking talent from the draft over the last few years, and his teams are always well prepared.

He did a good job on offense, but other than drafting Dumerville, he was a nightmare picking defensive players (in the draft or through free agency). At least if he was hired, we know that Blache would be fired after the first season. Not sure who he'd pick as the replacement, since he's already fired nearly every DC in the league already.

[akhhorus]

He did a good job on offense, but other than drafting Dumerville, he was a nightmare picking defensive players (in the draft or through free agency). At least if he was hired, we know that Blache would be fired after the first season. Not sure who he'd pick as the replacement, since he's already fired nearly every DC in the league already.

He's studying the pittsburgh 3-4 apparently, I wouldn't be surprised(and would be fine with) him hiring one of LeBeau's assistants as his DC.

[Moe]

I'm not a big fan of his. I think he would likely bring some stability to the offensive side of things but his draft history is spotty at best (Mo Clarett?) and in his last 5-6 years and changed D Coordinators almost annually. I'm solidly on the side of he's good when those around him are, which IMO is true of any number of coaches that might not have his downside.

[oldskinfan]

Not me, I want a GM and then he can hire a coach.

I would have to agree. Ultimately, I believe your personnel does more to win you games than coaching. And letting the GM hire his coach would align coaching to the make-up of the team.

I will take any good GM who believes you build teams by having good and deep lines - O and D.

[skinsfan36]

He's studying the pittsburgh 3-4 apparently, I wouldn't be surprised(and would be fine with) him hiring one of LeBeau's assistants as his DC.

that would be awesome.


yes we want shanahan.
-he knows offense talent
-he would pick us a great qb see cutler(so he would get sneed or bradford)
-he has a west coast system and we have the personel(kelly,thomas,mitchell,cooley,davis)
-he can find running backs easily and can find someone to share the load with portis
-his teams are always well prepared
-he knows how to use talent
-he pioneers things-see icing the kicker

[Redskinmayhem]

Not me, I want a GM and then he can hire a coach.
Hell, I'd take Casserley back and I've been a big critic of his. At least he was organized and qualified.

Not sure if Shanny is the answer but Casserly as a GM wasn't as bad as he was made out to be.

Honestly, ANY real GM has to be better than what we have here now.

[shally]

Their offense line was really good last year without Gibbs. Clady might be the best LT in the NFL.

+1 on that..Clady was a GREAT draft pick

shanahan is an adult.. zorn ? not even close to being mature as a HC

[Fathead]

I'm not a shanahan fan but the writing is on the wall.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I'm all for Shanny if Zorn doesnt improve but I fear Vinny won't be going anywhere if Shanny's the coach b/c they reportedly get along. I think it would be a similar situation as it was when Gibbs was here, with Danny,Vinny and Shanny collectively making decisions. I also think given his preference Shanny will pick Dallas over us, if they dont do well in the post season Wades a goner and Garrett will probably have coached himself out of the gig.

[akhhorus]

+1 on that..Clady was a GREAT draft pick


Eddie Royal in round 2 also, Ryan Harris in round 3(07), Cutler, Tony Scheffer(round 2 06), Brandon Marshall, Dominick Hixon and Elvis Dumervil all in the 4th round of 2006, Chris Kuper in round 5 of 06, etc etc etc. He can spot and develop talent.

[TrueOracle]

Personally I think we need to do what JKC did and find a young, hungry coach with a ton of potential a la JG or Mike Tomlin. Forget about the re-treads. Shanahan was very mortal without Elway. I mean, if we turn out as garbage this year I'd prefer scrapping everything and building anew. Let's give a young, unproven talent a shot.

[CNYSkinFan]

Why is everyone so surprised Shanahan likes Vinny...Vinny kept giving denver draft pick after draft pick...the extera 2nd for Portis, the 3rd for duckett, Vinny did not like filling out draft boards, so he gave away picks to lighten the load.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Personally I think we need to do what JKC did and find a young, hungry coach with a ton of potential a la JG or Mike Tomlin.

I agree with this, which is why I liked taking a chance on Zorn rather than going out and hiring a guy like Marty, Cowher, etc. There might be a greater chance they don't work out, but you are swinging for the fences.

BTW, isn't this entire discussion a tad premature? We haven't even lost to the Lions yet

[RedskinsATW!]

I'd take him over Zorn in a heartbeat.

There's also Gruden. He's almost tailor-made for us. He worked with a dysfunctional owner, can be rough on the players, inherited a storied franchise in decline, and looks worse than Vinny when he's mad. He made Oakland respectable. No minor feat. Also, the Poison Dwarf can market Chucky dolls in B & G.

Hell, Al Davis makes Dan Snyder look like Dan Rooney. Should be easy for him.

[warpaint]

Aside from the obvious, which is that someone like Shanny might want to handle personnel, and that means buh-bye Vinny, if the season does not go well, would we really want Shanny as the replacement?

I did some analysis from his stats on his Wikipedia entry.

1) In the years he had Elway, he was 47-17 in the regular season (.734 clip)
2) In the years after Elway retired, he was 91-69 (.568 clip) or about 9-7
3) In the same post-Elway years, he was 1-4 in the playoffs

We all know even Gibbs 2.0 has problems with the core personnel he was given to work with, and makes me think great coach without a good personnel guy = perpetual mediocrity (the Snyderrato issue).

Thoughts?

no doubt in my mind as who should be the next coach, russ grimm, at least give an x hog a chance and maybe just maybe we will get some o linemen in here for a change, let shanny find employment some where else.

[Moe]

-he would pick us a great qb see cutler(so he would get sneed or bradford)

See Plummer, for whom he actively pursued and paid a forture to before running him out of the league and submarining a 3 game division lead by benching him for Cutler.
Besides, if/when Cambell leaves then whomever takes over will have to get a QB.

-he has a west coast system and we have the personel(kelly,thomas,mitchell,cooley,davis)

the WCO is fairly antiquated in NFL terms, I'd prefer someone with some originality myself.

-he can find running backs easily and can find someone to share the load with portis

A quick look around the league and you'll see about 31 teams not named the Redskins plugging in no name RB's that produce. This is hardly a skill unique to, well anybody not named Snyderatto.

-his teams are always well prepared

The Colts are on line 2 and would like to laugh. Back to back first round playoff blow outs would tend to dispute this.

-he pioneers things-see icing the kicker

This is a positive?

[Moe]

no doubt in my mind as who should be the next coach, russ grimm, at least give an x hog a chance and maybe just maybe we will get some o linemen in here for a change, let shanny find employment some where else.

I think Snyder could not find a better candidate to improve his image than if he brought in Grimm. However, the fact that he's interviewed for numerous jobs, and was even the perceived incumbant in Pittsburgh, but has yet to land a job certainly gives me pause.

[Dolla Bill]

For the people that mentioned Casserly, I think he redeemed himself after everyone saw the Mario Williams/Reggie Bush fiasco play itself out. He was right in choosing Williams.

[oldskinfan]

I agree it's premature unless we go .500 over the next 4 games.
I think the NFL is a very impatient league overall now.

Shanny went 7-9 and 8-8 in his first 2 season in LA, then started 8-8 in Denver when he still had Elway.

[shally]

Why is everyone so surprised Shanahan likes Vinny...Vinny kept giving denver draft pick after draft pick...the extera 2nd for Portis, the 3rd for duckett, Vinny did not like filling out draft boards, so he gave away picks to lighten the load.

lol

you can bet that Shanny will have control of that process

[shally]

For the people that mentioned Casserly, I think he redeemed himself after everyone saw the Mario Williams/Reggie Bush fiasco play itself out. He was right in choosing Williams.

true.. but his overall record at Houston was still spotty

[chris]

we need someone with a backbone..WE NEED BILL COWHER!!

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

I don't want Shanahan under any circumstance. His personnel skills rival idiot-boy's.

I want $20M a year for Bill Polian and let him fix this mess.

Correct sir. Start at the top with a qualified GM, let him hire a coach and they build the team together. Will never happen as long as Danny-Boy is in charge - his ego couldn't take it.

I'm no fan of Shanahan - had some terrible defenses during his tenure.

[jaylen]

Not a fan of Shanny. I think he's a bad game coach. He's done okay with the draft but in games the idea of letting Cutler basically sink his teams -playoff hopes with the int's throwing all the time is a no go for me. Plus that defense was awful with him there he didn't seem to get the sorta talent to help the defense improve reaching for the one Florida kid who was on drugs was perplexing to me , Maurice Clarette in what rd 3 are you kidding me.

And I feel about the same about Cowher.

give me Wolf beg and plead with him then get Dungy beg and plead with him.

[akhhorus]

For the people that mentioned Casserly, I think he redeemed himself after everyone saw the Mario Williams/Reggie Bush fiasco play itself out. He was right in choosing Williams.

Check out his 2002 draft:
David Carr over Julius Peppers
Jabar Gaffney, and in the next 20 picks: Clinton Portis, DeShaun Foster, Andre Gurode, LeCharles Bentley, etc
Jonathan Wells over: Alex Brown, David Thornton, David Garrard, Randy McMichael, Jarvis Green and Larry Foote
2003:
Big hit on Andre Johnson
Bennie Joppru over: Ken Hamlin, Kawika Mitchell, Chris Kelsay, Anquan Boldin, Osi Umenyiora, L.J. Smith, Dewayne White
Antwaan Peek in round 3, the next two picks: Jason Witten, Lance Briggs
2004:
Good pick in Dunta Robinson
Traded away a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th for Jason Babin, the next 10 picks after Babin include: Chris Gamble, Michael Jenkins, Karlos Dansby, Chris Snee and Igor Olshansky. Bob Sanders was taken a couple spots after their 2nd that was dealt away.

I'd say his draft record was very mixed at best. Especially considering that he never saw the Oline as an area to fix despite record sack totals.

[shally]

Correct sir. Start at the top with a qualified GM, let him hire a coach and they build the team together. Will never happen as long as Danny-Boy is in charge - his ego couldn't take it.

I'm no fan of Shanahan - had some terrible defenses during his tenure.

i suspect hhe learned from his experience and would be he hires a solid DC this time around

[Kanman21]

As it has been stated several times, the only way this gets fixed is if we hire a real GM and he hires a coach, the way almost every other team in the league works it. Any chance we can lure Ron Wolf out of retirement to come fix it?

Other than that, any coach that is hired will still have to deal with danny boy and his misguided belief he knows how to pick players correctly.

I would even go so far as to guess that even with Gibbs 2.0, Snyder had more influence on the personnel than any of us would have thought. (just a guess though, no real proof)

[BigCountry]

He's studying the pittsburgh 3-4 apparently, I wouldn't be surprised(and would be fine with) him hiring one of LeBeau's assistants as his DC.

That'd be a hell of an idea and I think we actually have some personel to make this work. Moving Haynseworth to NT would actually prolong his career (Did wonders for Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers) and Brian Orakpo was born to play a rush linebacker in the 3-4. Golston and Alexander could also work very well in this specific version and Jarmon could play end and stand up making him a nice swing player to have in the rotation. Finally I think Rocky has the tools to play ILB in the 3-4. He's better playing more downhill and he's not a bad blitzer.

Hopefully they don't keep Blache to a thirty four.

[akhhorus]

That'd be a hell of an idea and I think we actually have some personel to make this work. Moving Haynseworth to NT would actually prolong his career (Did wonders for Kris Jenkins and Shaun Rogers) and Brian Orakpo was born to play a rush linebacker in the 3-4. Golston and Alexander could also work very well in this specific version and Jarmon could play end and stand up making him a nice swing player to have in the rotation. Finally I think Rocky has the tools to play ILB in the 3-4. He's better playing more downhill and he's not a bad blitzer.

Hopefully they don't keep Blache to a thirty four.

This(the skins moving to a 3-4) came up in my thoughts thread:
http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1252279&postcount=160

I'd run this defense:
3-4 Cover 3
DE: Jarmon
NT: Sign Casey Hampton from the Steelers, he's a UFA
DE: Haynesworth
OLB: Chris Wilson
ILB: Rocky McIntosh
ILB: Fletcher or Kirk Morrison
OLB: Orakpo
S: Horton and Landry
CB: Hall and mystery meat

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

in my view,shannahan has really only done anything when he had john elway and terrel davis on his team.he did make the playoffs with jake plummer,even beat new england,but pittsburg came in and whipped him at home.i want a coach that demands and recieves instant respect,the only one out there like that is bill cowher!cowher would come in and stop all these undisciplined penalties,and i gurantee when the skins got near the goal line the only person throwing the ball would be the quarterback.if he can find a way to run the team without DS sticking his nose in the day to day operation of the team,he'll win a superbowl in washington with in 5 years,
in my view.at this point,anybody else is just gonna prolong the agony we all feel!!!:devil2::devil2:

[BigCountry]

This(the skins moving to a 3-4) came up in my thoughts thread:
http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1252279&postcount=160

That would work considering we would need this year's draft picks for offense but at some point we would need to spend some high picks on a lineman, someone to play opposite Orakpo and maybe Fletcher's replacement.

[akhhorus]

That would work considering we would need this year's draft picks for offense but at some point we would need to spend some high picks on a lineman, someone to play opposite Orakpo and maybe Fletcher's replacement.

I think you could pull that defense off. There's quite a few NTs out there in FA along with guys who could be 3-4 ILBs in FA. That could let the skins use their 1st and 2nd on OL and QB.

[shally]

This(the skins moving to a 3-4) came up in my thoughts thread:
http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=1252279&postcount=160

i would love to see that defense onthe field.. we could even run it with Griffin or Golston at NT.. i think alexander would also be fine at DE

and having both Wilson and Orakpo coming off the wings to pass rush is beyond excititng to contemplate-- which is why it it will likely never happen-- certainly not as long as Blache is here

[GoDannyBoy]

I was hoping for Grimm a while back. Hopefully he would bring back the Hogs mentality. I thought that Gibbs would develop better lines, but it seems he also wanted to win now. Those trades really killed us.


I would favor hiring a real GM but that would not happen as Synder would not give up his control of the team. When the Redskins win he wants to take the credit, even if he make us wait another 10 years. The stand will be empty by then.

[redbamaskins]

i would like a head coach that does not need be told when to take a time out.
i would prefer the head coach from the waterboy. at least he won the bourbon bowl. Zorn is a joke of a head coach

[BigTex]

I don't want to see Shanahan ever be our head coach.

[Brokenstriker]

91-69 is a lot better than the record we've had in that span of time (76-84, according to Wiki).

NFC East vs. AFC West probably needs to be considered as a factor when making the comparison ... the Skins played 2 of the top 4 teams in the NFL twice every season in the combination of Dallas, Philly and New York Giants (compared to Oakland, Kansas City and San Diego)

[joethefan]

Snyder always hires his coaches in a certain order. I can't tell you who our next hea coach would be. But I'm sure it won't be first timer...So those of you who want Grimm..Sorry. He always hires based on how seasons go....

Norv, Fluke turned once proud organization into a losing one
Marty, Strong coach, even though I didn't like him
Spurrier, Fluke didn't know how to really pitch and catch
Gibbs,Strong coach, ran out the back door
Zorn, Fluke told Sonny that he'd bench him if he questioned a playcall. But doesn't know how and when to call a timeout.

So our next coach will be a strong head coach.

[Gravy]

I Don't Know Ya'll...Danny is still in charge! I still wonder WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN if Marty wasn't fired. I still hate Steve Spurrier...sorry Akh. I will always love Joe Gibbs, but that didn't work out wholly well...won't wholly bad, but not nearly what it could have been more a less maybe because of the 55 Coaches they had. Zorn has no business being a Head Coach but he is. I look at all of this and I say...Dan is the man in charge and I ask the question(s),
"Does he really want to do it the right way?"
"Can he just be an owner who lets a real football GM, who has what it takes, to run his football team?" "What does he really care about?"
"Does he really see all the mistakes that he has made...and is he willing to learn from them?"
I don't know guys, and I could be wrong, but for me...as long as Dan is the man, I don't think they can win a Super Bowl...I feel as long as Dan is running the ship, this team is destined to look good on paper. Again I could be wrong, I am sorry for the rant

[BSMKF]

I like Zorn............ I hope he can improve and stick around

[Patrick]

I like Zorn............ I hope he can improve and stick around DUCK .........:imshock:

[NamVet4]

I don't want Shanahan under any circumstance. His personnel skills rival idiot-boy's.

I want $20M a year for Bill Polian and let him fix this mess.

That is the absolute core statement!!!! Get a real GM FIRST!
Shanahan is just another high priced name to satisfy Daniel Snyder's ego.

Hiring Shanahan will only perpetuate this medicority! :(

[BurgundyNGold]

Not me, I want a GM and then he can hire a coach.
Hell, I'd take Casserley back and I've been a big critic of his. At least he was organized and qualified.
Ugh. No way, man. That can't even be considered a choice.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't want Shanahan under any circumstance. His personnel skills rival idiot-boy's.

I want $20M a year for Bill Polian and let him fix this mess.
Polian will not come here. He hates Danny. HATES him.

[RedskinsDave]

Their offense line was really good last year without Gibbs. Clady might be the best LT in the NFL.

Their pass protection was great, the run blocking was very average.

[Biggie]

Polian will not come here. He hates Danny. HATES him.
Cool, so do I.

[akhhorus]

Their pass protection was great, the run blocking was very average.

Their top 4 Rbs(since they had a ton of injuries at the position last year) all averaged 4.2 or better ypc, 3 of them averaged over 5 ypc. Their pass pro was amazing last year(12 sacks in 620 attempts), their run blocking was above average I would say.

[GibbsFan]

I say NO to Shanny's drunk old azz. He sucks.

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

Polian will not come here. He hates Danny. HATES him.

i bet that list is about 10,00 pages long ain't it?:)
i hope they get cowher,not shanny.cowher has won with different qbs,i mean tommy maddox got them in the playoffs one year,kordell stewart another,and it took big ben to get him a superbowl ring.shanny had one of the best 10 qbs ever,and only won 2 sbs.had he not ever had elway or terrel davis,he'd have never won anything!plus look at travis henry,the guy was a known drug attic and shanny or the broncos never did anything in terms of discipline to him.we need a tough discipline oriented coach who knows what it's like to be an actual nfl player,and cowher is the best out there!!!!

[colkurtz]

We need a strong, experienced NFL coach with SB experience. Why? Because only a name brand coach can demand top dollars, a 4-5 year contract AND the ironclad ability to receive full control before they are hired.

With inexperienced coaches like Zorn and Spurrier, Snyder and Cerrato were able to meddle with players, coaches and the draft - blurring the line of responsibilities and who is actually in charge.

We need a GM, but won't get one while Snder is owner. So the second best option is to have a coach with the power, background, experience to get Snyderrato out of the FO duties. That ONLY happened with Gibbs and will only happen with Gruden or Shanny - or someone of their experience.

[BostonSkins]

Personally, I'd rather have Cowher or Chucky. Skins need someone to come in and change the entire culture in the organization and it's going to take getting in some people's faces. You think Cowher would stand for Moss jogging through his routes?

Of course, if Vinny is still at the top all bets are off.

[RedskinsDave]

I believe any coach would do a better job than Zorn because there is enough talent. It will never get better so long as Vinny is picking the players though.

[MWballer]

I want a coach thats here for the long-term. Thats why people initially liked the idea of Zorn because if he succeeded he'd be our long-term solution. This time Snyder needs to hire a compotent GM to hire his long-term coach. Shanahan would be just another short term solution.

[Dolla Bill]

Personally, I'd rather have Cowher or Chucky. Skins need someone to come in and change the entire culture in the organization and it's going to take getting in some people's faces. You think Cowher would stand for Moss jogging through his routes?

Of course, if Vinny is still at the top all bets are off.

That's the crux of the issue. Vinny will do everything in his power to prevent Cowher or Chucky from coming here. Why? Because they will marginalize his power or even cut him from the organization entirely. That's why I think all signs point to Shanahan being here.

With that being said, I want a legit GM to come in and just clean house. From top to bottom; players, coaches, and FO. They all have to go.

But the bigger question is, who the hell wants to deal with this circus? I think all the smart football people know that Napoleon has pretty much been given enough rope (money) to hang himself. If the fans revolt pretty soon, Snyder will have to do something drastic. Whether that's fire Zorn, and/or staff at midseason, he has to do something to keep the fans coming back.

He felt the heat from the fan's anger last Sunday through the boos of the fans at home, AFTER and during the victory formation. For those who think he turns a blind eye to that better think again. Snyder has a huge ego, and do you think other owners, GMs, and executives didn't see or hear all those boos? I don't think so.

In the end, its going to take someone with either real serious clout, not only as a GM, but someone other FOs respect. Its not Shanahan, or Chucky.

Btw, I look to see Cowher take the Panthers HC gig if Carolina cans Fox during or after the season. If they don't, they're idiots, but he has a home in Carolina, and wants to stay in that area. They'll shell out money for him, not as extravagant as Snyder, but who the hell wants to deal with this mess?

[Birdlives]

With that being said, I want a legit GM to come in and just clean house. From top to bottom; players, coaches, and FO. They all have to go.

It's never going to happen as long as Snyder owns the team. He's deluded himself into believing that he can produce a winner with his finger in the pie, ala Jerry Jones.

Besides, our scouting staff is actually very good. Not Vinny, the guys you never hear about. Guys like Rocky Brown and Scott Campbell. These are the guys who are finding the Marko Mitchells and Kedric Golstons; the Reed Doughtys and Chris Hortons. By the time the 3rd round is done, Snyder and Vinny are finishing the back nine.

If I had to guess I'd say Shanahan is our likely next head coach. He gets along with Vinny as others have mentioned and sees this as a fix the offense; defense in place type of project, which he can do.

That being said, I'd like to see Snyder wash his hands and hire a GM.

The only thing I like about our franchise as is is Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown. Everything above those guys is a planet of ineptitude. At least with Shanahan he can use his talents to fix the offense, be kept in check by Vinny on the defense and also, most importantly, be strong enough to not take any guff from the owner. That kind of structure might actually work. First time GM's and Head Coaches will never be given proper time to turn this team around.

Now that's one hell of a first post. :devil2:

[oldskinfan]

I believe any coach would do a better job than Zorn because there is enough talent. It will never get better so long as Vinny is picking the players though.

I think our talent on offense is way overrated, with the possible exception of Cooley.

We have a very good HB with a lot of mileage and no real speed at the position anymore (Aldridge? unproven), a #1 WR on the downslide, no solid #2, a decent #3, a QB nobody wants, and 2/5 of a real starting O-line.

[Hr fan]

Correct sir. Start at the top with a qualified GM, let him hire a coach and they build the team together. Will never happen as long as Danny-Boy yis in charge - his ego couldn't take it.

I'm no fan of Shanahan - had some terrible defenses during his tenure.

Agree. There is no simple, one man fix, or every losing team in the league would be doing it. It takes competent people that have their areas of expertise supported by smoothly functioning staffs within a supportive corporate structure that operates on the basis of accountability. Would Polian be as good with our severely reduced scouting staff?

And it is academic anyway because Danny can't act as a CEO, he can only act as a fantasy football mogul.

[HurricaneSkins]

Nice guy coaches don't work anymore.. They haven't since Gibbs I..... You need a coach ala Belichek, Coughlin and even Ryan.. Somebody who will put fire under the players butts and hold them accountable for their errors.. But if you have no spine ala Zorn and no real plan then you will never be able to direct a bunch of egotistical players.

[akhhorus]

I believe any coach would do a better job than Zorn because there is enough talent. It will never get better so long as Vinny is picking the players though.

+1. This is the key(and why I support Shanny). Shanny will want total control(and not Joe Gibbs' total control, yet Danny still interferes).

[MDBluefinCrab]

As long as Little Danny owns this team, it will continue to be the Circus that it is and no big named Head Coach will come here under these conditions.
Until he takes himself out of the team management or sells the team, it will be nothing more than a revolving door for 2nd rate Head Coaches.
Please sell the team Danny! Sell! Sell! Sell!

[BIGREDSKINSFAN1963]

i don't think the skins o is overated cause gibbs got production out of most of them.the players just think that zorn's bland and vanilla offense stinks to high heaven!

[csquared]

i don't think the skins o is overated cause gibbs got production out of most of them.the players just think that zorn's bland and vanilla offense stinks to high heaven!

That was also 2 years ago. The O-line has aged quite a bit in 2 years. So has our RB and #1-2 wr.

[Goskins11]

can there be a poll set up stating yes or no to shanny?