Let’s talk Identity...

[KMDeMuth]

Its everywhere now, it’s what the media and players are talking about. What’s the team’s identity? What’s the game plan for the players on defense and on offense? What should the Redskins be known for? What should other teams know coming in that we are going to do? What kind of attitude should this team have?

SKIP THE WALL OF TEXT IF YOU KNOW HOW THE TEAM GOT INTO THIS MESS…

Right now, we don’t know, because the coaching staff doesn’t know. The offensive and defensive schemes Zorn and Blache want to run don’t fit the players on the roster. Instead of adjusting what they want to do to fit the talent on the field, they try to force feed their game plans to the players. Can you tell they don’t buy it?
This is not the team of Snyder past where there are a couple talented players on the team and a lot of Gardner and Ramsey types we are all brainwashed to think are good. Snyder and Vinny put a coaching staff in place before putting a Head Coach in place. The Redskins were doomed from that alone, no respectable coach was going to take over a team that he had no say in the staff; having his legs cut out from under him before he even stepped in the door. So, Dan and Vinny weren’t thinking identity, schemes or even about the roster. The usual Snyder move of "I can make it work..."

So, Zorn plays off Gibbs identity, he runs it into the ground...literally. The Redskins go 6-2 off of Gibbs 2.0's running game and blocking schemes. The aging O-line can't take the abuse and neither can Portis. The 2nd half of the year we get to see Zorn's "West Coast" offense and the team finishes 2-6.

In Vinny's infinite knowledge we don't do much to upgrade the O-line and add more players with talent, that won't be used properly. With the O-line changing from players coming back from injuries, other teams and regaining their starting jobs, the line play changed also. Run-blocking schemes are no longer effective, pass-protection is lacking and players are being used improperly. (Such as Cooley staying in blocking, he sucks at it, split him out wide where 2 defenders stay on him, use him as a decoy.) The O-line is even worse now with more injuries on top of not being able to do either style of offense well.

It’s painfully obvious that it is Snyderetto's fault the team is lost. It is also Zorn/Blache's fault for being weak coaches and not adapting to use what they have properly. The team is being run poorly on and off the field and everyone knows it now. The players have started to give up and the coaching staff is too weak to fix the problems and the FO is too slow to figure it all out.

IF YOU SKIPPED THE WALL OF TEXT, START HERE...

Snyder needs to decide who the Redskins are going to be.
-Does he want a team known for Defense or Offense?
-If Defense, What format? 4-3, 3-4? Does he want a blitz heavy team or something else?
-If Offense, Does he want a pass happy team or a running team? What type of passing or rushing offense?
-Does he want a fast team or a physical team?
-Does he want to build around what he has on the roster now? If so, it will largely decide what the identity of the team will be. Going with the systems your best players will excel in.


Snyder needs to man-up and make those decisions and hire a GM who will build him a team around those philosophies. After making those decisions Snyder and his GM need to find a coach that fits the mold. Then the 3 of them can hire a staff to build the team they want, but with an identity in place. The staff will take the best players that work within the system and cut/trade the rest and rebuild. Then rebuild the scouting department (keeping whoever is finding talent on the west coast...) So many teams have rebuilt in just a year or 2, this will be a good time to do it for the Redskins. Outside of the obvious reason, a cap-less year should help.

What would you make the team into?
-Offensive or Defensive focus, what mindset would your head-coach have?
-What type of Offense and Defense?

We know the media reads the forum, maybe someone at Redskins Park does too (Snyder? Let Vinny Cerrato help Tom Cruise fix his career and get them both away from this team!) Give your opinions on what YOU want the team to be. What do you think the talent (worth keeping) on the team fit best?

[redskin_rich]

Great post but the only answer I have is that Snyder doesn't have a clue about identity. He is stuck following trends and as we all know, if you follow trends, you have no identity.

As far as what I would do, I would definitely start right now using the talent we have on defense. Aggressive defense, conservative offense. Eventually, I would like the offense to be a force but right now, I just don't think we have what is needed, mainly the guys up front.

There is no reason though, that our defense shouldn't be creating more scoring opportunities. Give me a Defensive coordinator in the vein of a Buddy Ryan or the late Jim Johnson. Attack, attack , attack.

[Keino]

Why can't the defense be fast and physical?

Frankly, (love the post BTW) but I would say that Snyder needs to man-up and hire a GM and then let that GM set the direction of the franchise. In other words, let the football man determine what type of team we are (Finesse vs Smashmouth; Defense vs Offense vs Balanced; etc etc etc). I am simply not comfortable with Snyder making these decisions because he is entirely too whimsical. One minute He loves Brad Johnson, the next minute he's bringing in Jeff George. One minute he wants smashmouth, the next minute he wants Wide-open offense. The guy is incapable of making football decision because he is not a football man and he won't stick with a course of action long enough to see it through other than overpaying free-agents.

[redskin_rich]

Why can't the defense be fast and physical?

Frankly, (love the post BTW) but I would say that Snyder needs to man-up and hire a GM and then let that GM set the direction of the franchise. In other words, let the football man determine what type of team we are (Finesse vs Smashmouth; Defense vs Offense vs Balanced; etc etc etc). I am simply not comfortable with Snyder making these decisions because he is entirely too whimsical. One minute He loves Brad Johnson, the next minute he's bringing in Jeff George. One minute he wants smashmouth, the next minute he wants Wide-open offense. The guy is incapable of making football decision because he is not a football man and he won't stick with a course of action long enough to see it through other than overpaying free-agents.
So true. "Whimsical" is a perfect description of Snyder.

To be honest, I don't think many of us have too much preference towards systems, we just want a steadfast adherence to a system. That means, regardless of who the coach is, the system remains. That is the only way you can develop homegrown talent, instead of filling most needs with free agents. Every single team that has sustained success over the years, has stuck with a system, even when they've changed coaches.

This brings us back to a real GM, not a whimsical owner and a racquetball partner yes-man.

[LATrueRedskin]

Why can't the defense be fast and physical?

Frankly, (love the post BTW) but I would say that Snyder needs to man-up and hire a GM and then let that GM set the direction of the franchise. In other words, let the football man determine what type of team we are (Finesse vs Smashmouth; Defense vs Offense vs Balanced; etc etc etc). I am simply not comfortable with Snyder making these decisions because he is entirely too whimsical. One minute He loves Brad Johnson, the next minute he's bringing in Jeff George. One minute he wants smashmouth, the next minute he wants Wide-open offense. The guy is incapable of making football decision because he is not a football man and he won't stick with a course of action long enough to see it through other than overpaying free-agents.

I agree. I think Snyderatto doesn't stick to their identity long enough. I thought with Gibbs 2.0 we had an identity (run the ball effectively, minimize turnovers, play strong defense) while we didn't necessarily have the personnel to dominate. I'd like to have seen us build on that, but we brought Zorn in and changed things around. The problem is we still have Gibbs' smashmouth roster, and we're trying to force them to play wide open.

On defense, I don't really know what Blatche is trying to accomplish. With Gregg Williams, our identity (in my mind) was to play sound, solid defense. Stay within your assignments, tackle well, communicate well, cover well, blitz effectively. Blatche plays a reactionary defense, and doesn't make adjustments at all.

Personally, I'm a fan of running the ball well and attacking deep with playaction. I don't like the dink-and-dunk stuff that much, and I don't getting cute. I guess that's a bit of an outdated way to play football, but that's what I like. I'd like to see us stock up big time on OLine talent, keep Portis and get another really solid running back and just bulldoze people.

[LATrueRedskin]

So true. "Whimsical" is a perfect description of Snyder.

To be honest, I don't think many of us have too much preference towards systems, we just want a steadfast adherence to a system. That means, regardless of who the coach is, the system remains. That is the only way you can develop homegrown talent, instead of filling most needs with free agents. Every single team that has sustained success over the years, has stuck with a system, even when they've changed coaches.

This brings us back to a real GM, not a whimsical owner and a racquetball partner yes-man.

Agreed. I posted I'd like to have a smashmouth offense, but in acutality I'd take something that's stable and productive, no matter what it is.

[KMDeMuth]

The fast 'and' physical remark is more of a knock on Blache then anything else. Fast and physical under his coaching seems to mean a loss of fundamentals. If you are quick and physical, going to be used wrong. If not used improperly, they are coached right away from fundamentals. I would love to see more of the D opened up, but will they tackle better then? Willing to bet with the lack of proper coaching they still go for the big hit or don't tie up their man. They might make Sports-Center or they might get hurt right? :rolleyes:

I personally like how Gibbs and Williams had the team going before Al got here to "help Gibbs catch up with the league." I would like to see the team have a blitz heavy pressure D, built from the Line out. With "cover" corners, as in...they cover the receivers... Stay on them from the line, disrupt timing inside 5 and jump routes inside to screw up timing. Mixed with a time of possession offense, Run the ball, move the chains, take deep shots when they sell out on the run. Run first, PA pass, big play possibility offense, but built from the line out.

I think they have the talent on the team now to make that work if they trade/draft an O-line. Keep the other teams offense off the field and get them off the field quickly. I think it would help if we had a Defensive minded HC for once. They keep drafting/signing Defensive players with offensive Head Coaches. Why not have the identity of the team, fit the identity of the team?

What do you think the team would look like right now if Gibbs stayed another year and demanded O-line upgrades? (and Saunders had never been here, Gibbs would have been fine. Look at the "talent" we had before him, where he took it and what he left Zorn. He did go 6-2 with it...)

[KMDeMuth]

I agree. I think Snyderatto doesn't stick to their identity long enough. I thought with Gibbs 2.0 we had an identity (run the ball effectively, minimize turnovers, play strong defense) while we didn't necessarily have the personnel to dominate. I'd like to have seen us build on that, but we brought Zorn in and changed things around. The problem is we still have Gibbs' smashmouth roster, and we're trying to force them to play wide open.


Ha ha, i was typing when you were and didn't see this. I agree.

[redskin_rich]

Just to expand on the system comments, I'd like to add that good coaches can adapt their systems to the personnel they have. This is where I don't blame Zorn as much, *even though his playcalling is atrocious at the most critical times) but I do blame Blache who is doing the best job of less with more than I have ever seen. Blache is just so doggone stubborn in proving nobody knows anything but him about defense, he is willing to crash the depths of Hell before changing things up. I hope his ass gets burned in the process.

* Zorn is in over his head with the whole deal and playcalling, which might have been a strength for him, has become an act of chasing his own tail, as he cannot focus on that one thing he was probably qualified to do. I'm not absolving him of blame, he had a year in which he experienced the demands of nurturing a QB, calling offensive plays, managing games and managing a team. He could have easily delegated some things or even hired another assistant or two but he chose to continue the same path that helped lead us to a 2-6 finish last year. Also, he chose to give the vets, who haven't won a gotdamned thing, a soft camp which wasn't even a camp at all.

[Keino]

Just to expand on the system comments, I'd like to add that good coaches can adapt their systems to the personnel they have. This is where I don't blame Zorn as much, *even though his playcalling is atrocious at the most critical times) but I do blame Blache who is doing the best job of less with more than I have ever seen. Blache is just so doggone stubborn in proving nobody knows anything but him about defense, he is willing to crash the depths of Hell before changing things up. I hope his ass gets burned in the process.

* Zorn is in over his head with the whole deal and playcalling, which might have been a strength for him, has become an act of chasing his own tail, as he cannot focus on that one thing he was probably qualified to do. I'm not absolving him of blame, he had a year in which he experienced the demands of nurturing a QB, calling offensive plays, managing games and managing a team. He could have easily delegated some things or even hired another assistant or two but he chose to continue the same path that helped lead us to a 2-6 finish last year. Also, he chose to give the vets, who haven't won a gotdamned thing, a soft camp which wasn't even a camp at all.

This is what happens when you hire an Offensive Coordinator before a head coach and you coax someone out of retirement in order to maintain continuity for continuity's sake.

We have the laziest front office in the Country. Instead of working so hard to try and demonstrate they are working hard, they should just work hard and stop fakin' the funk.

If I only had a Delorean with a flux capacitor and a Sports Almanac, I would fix this mess.

[redskin_rich]

This is what happens when you hire an Offensive Coordinator before a head coach and you coax someone out of retirement in order to maintain continuity for continuity's sake.

We have the laziest front office in the Country. Instead of working so hard to try and demonstrate they are working hard, they should just work hard and stop fakin' the funk.

If I only had a Delorean with a flux capacitor and a Sports Almanac, I would fix this mess.
I'm going to attribute this laziness you speak of, squarely on the shoulders of Vinny. It's funny how I have read articles and posts here about the success Vinny had at San Fran and Notre Dame, whatever the hell he did in those places, yet the fact that both programs had been a running model of success long before he arrived at each and both fell apart when anything that might have had has fingerprints came to fruition, has seldom if ever been mentioned.
Meanwhile, we have our whimsical billionaire owner, who is only where he is because of extremely lucky timing. All his other business ventures and the state of the Redskins is proof that he is indeed a moron. We have this little tyrant, who has always had a Napoleon complex, (I can account for this, having dealt with him when Snyder Comm was just getting started) who knows nothing but getting his way all the time.

Ugh, woe be us.

[Keino]

I'm going to attribute this laziness you speak of, squarely on the shoulders of Vinny. It's funny how I have read articles and posts here about the success Vinny had at San Fran and Notre Dame, whatever the hell he did in those places, yet the fact that both programs had been a running model of success long before he arrived at each and both fell apart when anything that might have had has fingerprints came to fruition, has seldom if ever been mentioned.
Meanwhile, we have our whimsical billionaire owner, who is only where he is because of extremely lucky timing. All his other business ventures and the state of the Redskins is proof that he is indeed a moron. We have this little tyrant, who has always had a Napoleon complex, (I can account for this, having dealt with him when Snyder Comm was just getting started) who knows nothing but getting his way all the time.

Ugh, woe be us.

Well if Doc Brown ever builds me that car, we will have different Billionaire owner with a Napoleon Complex who happened to make his Billions by gambling....;)

Only that guy will get out of the way and let a real GM do his job.

[Death_Venom]

I think Zorn's play-calling is reflective of his confidence of the Skins being able to beat the other team.

I would like to see the Skins become a balanced team leaning more towards the run with more shots downfield. The short and medim routes are fine but we need to down way more shots downfield. The key to this offense is a strong running game, along with consistent WR play. We seriously need a upgrade to our #2 back (Betts) who I think has out-lived his usefulness here.

[redskin_rich]

Well if Doc Brown ever builds me that car, we will have different Billionaire owner with a Napoleon Complex who happened to make his Billions by gambling....;)

Only that guy will get out of the way and let a real GM do his job.

LOL, you ain't got nothing on Snyder, when it comes to Napoleon complexes. Remind me, next time we talk, to tell you about it.

[Redskinmayhem]

Honestly, It's Snyder. the team gets it's identity from the owner. Back in 97/98(I think), Snyder, against Norv's wishes, sacked Brad Johnson in favor of Jeff George. He wanted to be the new RAMS of that era. The team clearly wasn't built for that. We had run blocking o-line, a bruising back, a smart, game manager in Brad Johnson, and a decent enough defense to keep us in games if the offense struggled. After the 7-1 start, I can see why a change might have been needed, but not a complete identity overhaul. So basically, Ever since then, Snyder has been changing things over and over in search of the formula. Problem is, he hasn't stuck w/ one thing long enough to see what works and what doesn't.

[Hr fan]

It is hopeless with snyderatto. Neither has an idea of what identity means, nor building to that end. danny wants press ink to sell hope, and vinnie can only say yes to any vargant thought that occurs to danny (see J. Taylor episode 2008). So any hope of getting a decision on what O and D identities we were to assume and getting a GM that is good at implementing these decisions and then leaving him alone for 5 years is as imaginary as the square root of -1.

but while that answers part of your post (which I enjoyed - really good post), the rest is "what would I do". So here goes.

Reality is we face division opponents for 6 of 16 games, or nearly 40%. All of these games are against smashmouth O, attacking D. Our choice if we are to get out of our own division, therefore, is to do better than these teams by using the same approach with superior schemes/players, or go in a direction that we think will work against these teams. While IMO we have to use the same tactics (brutal Ds will decimate speedy, pass oriented Os), I would interview GM candidates with a primary objective of choosing the candidate with the best track record and with a D and O identity recommendation that I could believe in. How meticulously this approach is already mapped out would be a heavily weighted facdtor.

I would then let the GM rate the roster, develop a long term development program, and then let him choose the HC to implement these plans and deveolp the team identity. I would observe and comment only to the extent that I felt the GM will get along with the HC, that is how much are they in sync. After that I hold them responsible for the success of implementing those plans while I render what support I can ($$$). The HC is responsible for filling out the coaching staff with GM advice, but it will be his responsibility. The GM will develop personnel acquisition priorities plans and develop the scouting, etc. staff to implement these plans. I would spend heavily here, because there is no cap and if the team is superior in acquiring/developing the right personnel the identity will occur.

Hopefully the HC and GM and their staffs are well chosen and produce the results identified in the time frames of the plans. If not adaptation will be reuired, and accountability will be enforced.